1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:24,436 Speaker 1: Pushkin. In two thousand and five, single Will Oldham and 2 00:00:24,516 --> 00:00:28,836 Speaker 1: guitarist Matt Sweeney released the Superwolf album, which has developed 3 00:00:28,876 --> 00:00:32,756 Speaker 1: a cult following that includes Rick Rubin, who absolutely fell 4 00:00:32,876 --> 00:00:36,756 Speaker 1: in love with the project. Now sixteen years later, they're 5 00:00:36,796 --> 00:00:41,476 Speaker 1: back with the follow up, Superwolves. Other folks will make 6 00:00:41,716 --> 00:00:47,236 Speaker 1: mistakes and leave you with the mass. Other folks have 7 00:00:47,516 --> 00:00:53,236 Speaker 1: ways of fucking past, but you know best they're lost. 8 00:00:53,276 --> 00:00:56,476 Speaker 1: To begin with, This new album was five years in 9 00:00:56,476 --> 00:01:00,196 Speaker 1: the making, a leisurely pace that allowed Oldham and Sweeney 10 00:01:00,276 --> 00:01:04,916 Speaker 1: to be incredibly intentional with their creative choices. Oldham, who's 11 00:01:04,956 --> 00:01:07,476 Speaker 1: recorded under a number of different monikers in the past, 12 00:01:07,676 --> 00:01:11,356 Speaker 1: including Bonnie Prince Billy, wrote all the lyrics before sending 13 00:01:11,356 --> 00:01:14,316 Speaker 1: them over to Sweeney to write his guitar parts. The 14 00:01:14,436 --> 00:01:17,596 Speaker 1: duo also added a new flavor, tapping the West African 15 00:01:17,676 --> 00:01:20,716 Speaker 1: musician m Dumaktar to play guitar on a few tracks. 16 00:01:22,076 --> 00:01:25,156 Speaker 1: On today's episode, Rick Rubin talks to Oldham and Sweeney 17 00:01:25,196 --> 00:01:28,076 Speaker 1: about their work together, which Rick considers some of his 18 00:01:28,196 --> 00:01:31,796 Speaker 1: favorite contemporary music, and it's also why he's used Sweeney 19 00:01:31,796 --> 00:01:34,476 Speaker 1: on a lot of the sessions he's produced, including the 20 00:01:34,516 --> 00:01:38,516 Speaker 1: Dixie Chicks, Cat Stevens and Adele. Will Oldham talks about 21 00:01:38,556 --> 00:01:41,476 Speaker 1: his philosophy on connecting with his audience and how if 22 00:01:41,476 --> 00:01:44,636 Speaker 1: this pandemic were to take us all, super Wolves would 23 00:01:44,636 --> 00:01:52,916 Speaker 1: be a great album to go out on. This is 24 00:01:52,956 --> 00:01:56,516 Speaker 1: broken record liner notes for the digital Age. I'm justin Richmond. 25 00:02:01,676 --> 00:02:05,276 Speaker 1: Here's Rick Rubin with will Oldham and Matt Sweeney. How 26 00:02:05,276 --> 00:02:08,756 Speaker 1: are we being graced with a new super Wolf project 27 00:02:09,796 --> 00:02:13,716 Speaker 1: all this time since the last one. Matt and I 28 00:02:13,756 --> 00:02:15,396 Speaker 1: thought it could be a good idea. We didn't think 29 00:02:15,396 --> 00:02:17,036 Speaker 1: about it till till too late, but it could be 30 00:02:17,076 --> 00:02:19,196 Speaker 1: a good idea to get up to speed with your 31 00:02:19,236 --> 00:02:24,516 Speaker 1: conversational style in this forum. So I was listening a 32 00:02:24,516 --> 00:02:27,276 Speaker 1: little bit earlier today to a conversation that you were 33 00:02:27,316 --> 00:02:30,436 Speaker 1: having with Adam Cohen. You were saying that there's you 34 00:02:30,476 --> 00:02:33,836 Speaker 1: just can't control it. You can't control He says specifically 35 00:02:33,836 --> 00:02:35,996 Speaker 1: that a record isn't a Fay dot COMPI And he 36 00:02:36,036 --> 00:02:38,516 Speaker 1: has a beautiful little French Canadian accent when he says it, 37 00:02:38,996 --> 00:02:40,716 Speaker 1: and he you know, and he goes on to say, 38 00:02:40,796 --> 00:02:43,036 Speaker 1: even with the right songs and the right producer and 39 00:02:43,076 --> 00:02:45,356 Speaker 1: the right blah blah blah, you know, you can't guarantee 40 00:02:45,836 --> 00:02:49,636 Speaker 1: and you say, yeah, you can't, there's no And I 41 00:02:49,716 --> 00:02:53,596 Speaker 1: feel like if you just do something like take your time, 42 00:02:54,436 --> 00:02:57,476 Speaker 1: you can kind of get close to guaranteeing it. So 43 00:02:57,676 --> 00:02:59,836 Speaker 1: to answer your question, we just took a little bit 44 00:02:59,836 --> 00:03:03,636 Speaker 1: of time. We wanted to make a good record. As 45 00:03:03,676 --> 00:03:07,036 Speaker 1: you've probably experienced most records that you probably feel strongly about, 46 00:03:07,036 --> 00:03:11,196 Speaker 1: whether you participated in them or not, something did just happen, 47 00:03:11,236 --> 00:03:15,236 Speaker 1: of course that made them specifically rise above the other records. 48 00:03:15,676 --> 00:03:17,236 Speaker 1: But having been aware of that, if you have the 49 00:03:17,676 --> 00:03:21,676 Speaker 1: leisure because you're doing other things, to build something slowly 50 00:03:21,716 --> 00:03:25,756 Speaker 1: and just be sure that you only act when the 51 00:03:25,876 --> 00:03:29,556 Speaker 1: charge is there, absolutely, would you say, in the writing process, 52 00:03:29,756 --> 00:03:33,116 Speaker 1: do you consider the audience or not at all? Yeah, No, 53 00:03:33,196 --> 00:03:36,836 Speaker 1: it's it's all about the audience, like entirely. Yeah, the 54 00:03:36,836 --> 00:03:40,236 Speaker 1: whole reason to sit down and write is for the audience. Interesting, 55 00:03:40,876 --> 00:03:43,956 Speaker 1: it's probably less than fifty fifty that that would be 56 00:03:43,996 --> 00:03:47,116 Speaker 1: the answer to people who write songs. Yeah, you never 57 00:03:47,196 --> 00:03:49,676 Speaker 1: hear people say that. I feel like Chuck Berry is 58 00:03:49,676 --> 00:03:51,116 Speaker 1: the kind of person who would say it. He would, 59 00:03:51,996 --> 00:03:53,676 Speaker 1: he would be a little colder in the way that 60 00:03:53,716 --> 00:03:56,236 Speaker 1: he phrased it. But but if you read about him 61 00:03:56,236 --> 00:04:00,836 Speaker 1: talking earlier in his career. He's less less harsh. But yeah, 62 00:04:00,836 --> 00:04:04,316 Speaker 1: people don't say that. I had a revelation recently that 63 00:04:04,396 --> 00:04:07,396 Speaker 1: I'll share with you, which is I've always worked towards 64 00:04:07,436 --> 00:04:09,716 Speaker 1: this idea of greatness and they didn't know what greatness was, 65 00:04:09,796 --> 00:04:11,556 Speaker 1: but but that was the feeling. It's like, it's not 66 00:04:11,876 --> 00:04:14,276 Speaker 1: it's not about selling a lot, it's not about making 67 00:04:14,316 --> 00:04:16,956 Speaker 1: anybody else like it. It's about it has to be great. 68 00:04:16,996 --> 00:04:18,396 Speaker 1: It has to be great in a way where it 69 00:04:18,436 --> 00:04:20,516 Speaker 1: stands up to the test of time and it's forever, 70 00:04:21,196 --> 00:04:25,556 Speaker 1: and it's like the the bar was higher. And recently 71 00:04:26,596 --> 00:04:29,756 Speaker 1: I've come to realize that actually we're making art as 72 00:04:29,756 --> 00:04:33,716 Speaker 1: an offering to God. And if you're making art for God, 73 00:04:34,036 --> 00:04:36,276 Speaker 1: there are no shortcuts to take, there are no low 74 00:04:36,396 --> 00:04:41,876 Speaker 1: vibration energies involved in the process. It's like, that's the 75 00:04:42,836 --> 00:04:46,036 Speaker 1: that's what we're really aiming for. Is this um a 76 00:04:46,156 --> 00:04:50,156 Speaker 1: sharing on a different plane? Really, I like to think 77 00:04:50,236 --> 00:04:54,476 Speaker 1: that in what we do, or at least what I do, 78 00:04:54,676 --> 00:04:58,116 Speaker 1: the offering is not the work. The offering is the 79 00:04:58,156 --> 00:05:01,236 Speaker 1: connection made between the work and the audience. You know, 80 00:05:01,676 --> 00:05:04,276 Speaker 1: my mother was a visual artist. Nobody ever saw her 81 00:05:04,556 --> 00:05:08,116 Speaker 1: visual art. It's it's great, but she I would maybe 82 00:05:08,156 --> 00:05:10,676 Speaker 1: say that those could be considered offerings to God because 83 00:05:10,676 --> 00:05:12,876 Speaker 1: they weren't shared with anybody, so in and of themselves, 84 00:05:12,876 --> 00:05:16,516 Speaker 1: that's what they were. But because our labor goes to 85 00:05:17,556 --> 00:05:20,876 Speaker 1: making a connection, you know, you're you're asking for an audience. 86 00:05:21,676 --> 00:05:24,356 Speaker 1: For to have any degree of success, whether it's financial 87 00:05:24,436 --> 00:05:27,716 Speaker 1: or spiritual or artistic, there does need to be some 88 00:05:27,756 --> 00:05:31,596 Speaker 1: sort of a connection to a recipient. And so that 89 00:05:31,356 --> 00:05:36,636 Speaker 1: that the connection itself, building a connection that you that 90 00:05:36,716 --> 00:05:40,516 Speaker 1: you feel that that is sturdy or beautiful or complex, 91 00:05:40,516 --> 00:05:43,916 Speaker 1: that that that's the offering that you're rather than the 92 00:05:43,916 --> 00:05:46,196 Speaker 1: peace itself, or rather yeah, rather than the piece itself. 93 00:05:46,756 --> 00:05:50,476 Speaker 1: I've noticed, at least in the context of Superwolf, particularly 94 00:05:50,476 --> 00:05:54,236 Speaker 1: the first album, there are lyrics that I find they 95 00:05:54,356 --> 00:05:58,916 Speaker 1: pull me in emotionally and then they'll be I'll call 96 00:05:58,956 --> 00:06:04,756 Speaker 1: them surprises, certain land mines lyrically that you might not 97 00:06:04,836 --> 00:06:12,516 Speaker 1: be expected in a song that sounds like these sound intentional, unintentional, 98 00:06:13,356 --> 00:06:17,236 Speaker 1: definitely intentional. I wish I could pull examples from from 99 00:06:17,236 --> 00:06:21,036 Speaker 1: my brain. I can think of songwriters like John Prine 100 00:06:21,236 --> 00:06:23,596 Speaker 1: or Bob McDill, who wrote a lot of songs that 101 00:06:23,676 --> 00:06:28,116 Speaker 1: Don Williams ended up playing. Where do you know Don 102 00:06:28,156 --> 00:06:30,836 Speaker 1: Williams music at all? You know, you know, good old 103 00:06:30,836 --> 00:06:33,796 Speaker 1: boys like me. That song where he says, you know, uh, 104 00:06:34,356 --> 00:06:36,676 Speaker 1: you know something I ran with the kids down a 105 00:06:36,756 --> 00:06:39,716 Speaker 1: kid down the street who you know, got himself something 106 00:06:39,716 --> 00:06:42,116 Speaker 1: like burned up on bourbon and speed. And of course 107 00:06:42,276 --> 00:06:44,436 Speaker 1: in the chorus when he says those Williams boys and 108 00:06:44,436 --> 00:06:47,436 Speaker 1: he says, Hank in Tennessee. And it still is always 109 00:06:47,476 --> 00:06:49,876 Speaker 1: like something to marvel at. It's still a surprise, and 110 00:06:49,956 --> 00:06:54,156 Speaker 1: it keeps me coming back. You know that song sounds 111 00:06:54,156 --> 00:06:56,236 Speaker 1: like something You turn it on and it sounds exactly 112 00:06:56,276 --> 00:06:59,196 Speaker 1: like what it sounds like. And then lyrically he keeps 113 00:07:00,436 --> 00:07:03,756 Speaker 1: confounding the sound of the song. I don't know, I 114 00:07:03,796 --> 00:07:06,156 Speaker 1: feel all of a sudden, I know I'm at home here. 115 00:07:06,236 --> 00:07:07,876 Speaker 1: It's not you know, this is where I belong. I 116 00:07:07,956 --> 00:07:11,516 Speaker 1: belong in this thing that's a little more convoluted or 117 00:07:11,556 --> 00:07:14,876 Speaker 1: a labyrinthine then, But it's very friendly too, It's very 118 00:07:14,876 --> 00:07:17,476 Speaker 1: open and loving because it sounds like something that you 119 00:07:17,556 --> 00:07:20,916 Speaker 1: love right away. But if it only was something simple 120 00:07:20,996 --> 00:07:23,756 Speaker 1: like that, like a fair faucet poster or something, you know, 121 00:07:23,756 --> 00:07:26,636 Speaker 1: you would lose interest after a little while. Instead, it 122 00:07:26,676 --> 00:07:29,036 Speaker 1: has a little bit of creepiness or a little bit 123 00:07:29,036 --> 00:07:31,876 Speaker 1: of gore in there that keeps you on your toes 124 00:07:31,956 --> 00:07:35,836 Speaker 1: and remembering that when the song starts again, you have 125 00:07:35,876 --> 00:07:39,276 Speaker 1: a sense memory of This sounds pretty good, but it's 126 00:07:39,276 --> 00:07:42,236 Speaker 1: actually even better than it sounds, because the lyrics are 127 00:07:42,236 --> 00:07:47,156 Speaker 1: going to take me someplace that the music is belying great. 128 00:07:48,116 --> 00:07:52,996 Speaker 1: Do you do songs typically start with a concept or 129 00:07:53,036 --> 00:07:58,076 Speaker 1: a lyric. What's your way in? Typically? I like these days, 130 00:07:58,076 --> 00:08:02,756 Speaker 1: I like triggers. For the past few years, my wife 131 00:08:02,796 --> 00:08:05,236 Speaker 1: has done something for me which I need to get 132 00:08:05,236 --> 00:08:08,476 Speaker 1: her to do again. Is I put a piece of 133 00:08:08,516 --> 00:08:11,676 Speaker 1: paper on the wall and every day I just asked 134 00:08:11,676 --> 00:08:15,116 Speaker 1: her to write a song title on that piece of paper. 135 00:08:15,716 --> 00:08:18,436 Speaker 1: And then that just gives me something to sit down 136 00:08:18,436 --> 00:08:21,036 Speaker 1: and stay in shape with. And every once in a while, 137 00:08:21,516 --> 00:08:26,636 Speaker 1: something like I think the song my Blue Suit that 138 00:08:26,756 --> 00:08:30,436 Speaker 1: it's on this new record, it was a Elsa title 139 00:08:30,476 --> 00:08:33,516 Speaker 1: song where she just wrote my Blue Suit. But then 140 00:08:33,636 --> 00:08:36,196 Speaker 1: then there's also there's three songs on this record where 141 00:08:36,236 --> 00:08:38,676 Speaker 1: I think, up at the end of the street there 142 00:08:38,716 --> 00:08:41,716 Speaker 1: was a bookstore and the guy who the guy would 143 00:08:41,716 --> 00:08:44,516 Speaker 1: be able to buy overstock. There was a buyer who 144 00:08:44,516 --> 00:08:47,556 Speaker 1: bought overstock and he curated his overstock you know, super 145 00:08:47,716 --> 00:08:54,556 Speaker 1: discount new book selection amazingly and he put on the 146 00:08:54,556 --> 00:08:57,636 Speaker 1: table one day this book called Falkland Road, which is 147 00:08:57,636 --> 00:09:02,796 Speaker 1: about Mumbai red light district, and it's just kind of 148 00:09:02,836 --> 00:09:07,676 Speaker 1: one picture per two pages and then a little maybe 149 00:09:07,676 --> 00:09:10,396 Speaker 1: a sentence or two sentences are three sentences that could 150 00:09:10,396 --> 00:09:12,636 Speaker 1: be a quote from an interview with one of the 151 00:09:12,636 --> 00:09:15,116 Speaker 1: people who's in the photograph. And there's three songs from 152 00:09:15,116 --> 00:09:17,876 Speaker 1: this record that that came like. And I was just 153 00:09:18,236 --> 00:09:20,796 Speaker 1: sharing those with because I hadn't shown them to Matt 154 00:09:20,916 --> 00:09:23,476 Speaker 1: until just like yesterday, right, man, Well, you hadn't shown 155 00:09:23,516 --> 00:09:26,476 Speaker 1: them like that. I'd seen that photo, the first photo, 156 00:09:26,476 --> 00:09:28,196 Speaker 1: the good to my Girls photo, I know, I'd seen 157 00:09:28,196 --> 00:09:30,436 Speaker 1: that tools. Yeah, I'd seen that just at your house, 158 00:09:30,476 --> 00:09:33,836 Speaker 1: I guess, sitting around or something, is that I mean, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, 159 00:09:33,876 --> 00:09:36,636 Speaker 1: and Rick, I almost sent you these pictures as pre production, 160 00:09:36,676 --> 00:09:39,196 Speaker 1: but then I said, fuck preproduction. But I thought that 161 00:09:39,196 --> 00:09:40,956 Speaker 1: that was a really fascinating way in and kind of 162 00:09:40,996 --> 00:09:44,356 Speaker 1: an insight into how will write words, which is, you know, 163 00:09:44,756 --> 00:09:47,996 Speaker 1: like you look at a photograph, for example, do you 164 00:09:47,996 --> 00:09:49,716 Speaker 1: mind if we listened to a song. Can we listen 165 00:09:49,756 --> 00:09:51,756 Speaker 1: to Good to My Girls? Yeah? Good to my girls? 166 00:09:51,836 --> 00:10:09,236 Speaker 1: Yeah we have way too naked scene. We are are 167 00:10:09,316 --> 00:10:19,796 Speaker 1: not hard or bad, and I chop down trees and 168 00:10:20,276 --> 00:10:30,516 Speaker 1: spitting faces and laugh when you are sad. Your happiness 169 00:10:30,716 --> 00:10:37,636 Speaker 1: means almost less. That all that's in the world my 170 00:10:39,636 --> 00:10:47,276 Speaker 1: existence his Oh, can't I guess? Because I'm good to 171 00:10:47,596 --> 00:10:56,436 Speaker 1: my girls. I take them to the movies. I put 172 00:10:56,596 --> 00:11:02,076 Speaker 1: food in their bellies, I sow the hose in their life, 173 00:11:02,236 --> 00:11:07,636 Speaker 1: shut and temper any hoping. What else can I say? 174 00:11:08,316 --> 00:11:16,876 Speaker 1: I didn't ask. I'm good to them and thereby my 175 00:11:17,116 --> 00:11:26,396 Speaker 1: share of life. Day they make beautiful song. Thanks Rick, 176 00:11:26,636 --> 00:11:29,516 Speaker 1: so so so. The line that the that the woman 177 00:11:29,556 --> 00:11:31,316 Speaker 1: says is I'm good to my girls. I take them 178 00:11:31,316 --> 00:11:33,796 Speaker 1: to the movies once a month. Business is bad now, 179 00:11:33,916 --> 00:11:36,596 Speaker 1: but I still buy good food. I spent seven hundred 180 00:11:36,596 --> 00:11:40,276 Speaker 1: and fifty rupees for clothes for Christmas. When I heard 181 00:11:40,316 --> 00:11:45,916 Speaker 1: the song, I thought for sure it was an autobiographical song. 182 00:11:46,316 --> 00:11:48,516 Speaker 1: Well it is, that's the thing I thought it would. 183 00:11:49,196 --> 00:11:51,476 Speaker 1: But I thought it was I thought it was you 184 00:11:52,276 --> 00:11:55,316 Speaker 1: talking about your wife. I assumed you had either a 185 00:11:55,436 --> 00:11:57,916 Speaker 1: daughter or more than one. And you were talking about 186 00:11:57,956 --> 00:12:00,436 Speaker 1: being good to you girls, and then you get to 187 00:12:00,556 --> 00:12:06,476 Speaker 1: the hard part, and that's more like um self reflection. 188 00:12:06,796 --> 00:12:09,356 Speaker 1: Concerns you have about yourself might not even be true, 189 00:12:09,476 --> 00:12:13,476 Speaker 1: more like obsessive thoughts of not being good enough. It's 190 00:12:13,516 --> 00:12:15,916 Speaker 1: just interesting like that. That's what I heard, is like, oh, 191 00:12:15,996 --> 00:12:18,396 Speaker 1: it's this is this one's really about him? Well, I 192 00:12:18,476 --> 00:12:21,276 Speaker 1: mean there's no other source from which to truly draw 193 00:12:21,396 --> 00:12:24,876 Speaker 1: to get a you know, a multidimensional lyric, so that 194 00:12:24,916 --> 00:12:26,596 Speaker 1: it comes from you know, that's the that's the ideas 195 00:12:26,636 --> 00:12:30,076 Speaker 1: that it comes and triangulating. I can triangulate, you triangulate 196 00:12:30,116 --> 00:12:33,196 Speaker 1: with this, madam, in order to make something that I 197 00:12:33,276 --> 00:12:35,836 Speaker 1: can sing hopefully again and again and again and again 198 00:12:35,876 --> 00:12:38,316 Speaker 1: and again and again and still engage. And then also 199 00:12:38,356 --> 00:12:41,236 Speaker 1: an audience member can hear it again and again and again. 200 00:12:41,676 --> 00:12:45,356 Speaker 1: And it comes from, you know, documenting a shared experience 201 00:12:45,476 --> 00:12:49,596 Speaker 1: rather than a unique experience. What would be other lyrical 202 00:12:49,756 --> 00:12:55,796 Speaker 1: influences for you? Historically? Danzig, Danzig, We've talked about this Rick, 203 00:12:55,836 --> 00:12:58,956 Speaker 1: but Danzig, Yeah, I mean Danzig huge. I mean he's huge, 204 00:12:59,116 --> 00:13:02,196 Speaker 1: and still like I understand that he was, you know, 205 00:13:02,476 --> 00:13:04,956 Speaker 1: virtually a child when he wrote a lot of the 206 00:13:05,156 --> 00:13:08,276 Speaker 1: you know, the lyrics that he wrote in the eighties, 207 00:13:08,436 --> 00:13:11,436 Speaker 1: and yet I get so excited by the potential energy 208 00:13:11,516 --> 00:13:15,916 Speaker 1: that's wound up in his lyrics. They're just so incredible 209 00:13:15,916 --> 00:13:17,996 Speaker 1: and so beautiful that I always think, well, that's something 210 00:13:18,556 --> 00:13:20,836 Speaker 1: to continue to aspire to, because if it, you know, 211 00:13:21,956 --> 00:13:25,076 Speaker 1: too many writers write better as children than they do 212 00:13:25,236 --> 00:13:28,356 Speaker 1: as adults, which is I think it's an absolute sin 213 00:13:29,076 --> 00:13:31,716 Speaker 1: that it's allowed to happen, you know, that the songwriters 214 00:13:31,756 --> 00:13:34,876 Speaker 1: themselves allowed to happen, and that people in the world 215 00:13:34,916 --> 00:13:37,476 Speaker 1: allow it to happen as well, that we don't ask 216 00:13:37,676 --> 00:13:42,196 Speaker 1: more of our senior lyricists or senior singers, expect more 217 00:13:42,276 --> 00:13:44,156 Speaker 1: from them rather than oh this is as good, you know, 218 00:13:44,356 --> 00:13:47,356 Speaker 1: or comparing them to the past. Yeah, talking, we're talking 219 00:13:47,356 --> 00:13:50,356 Speaker 1: about all this stuff. Can can you devote like thirty 220 00:13:50,396 --> 00:13:54,436 Speaker 1: five to forty seconds around the phenomenon of of Glenn 221 00:13:54,476 --> 00:14:01,116 Speaker 1: Danzig writing the song for Roy Orbison? Sure had an 222 00:14:01,156 --> 00:14:04,956 Speaker 1: opportunity to do a song with Roy Orbison, and I 223 00:14:05,076 --> 00:14:09,356 Speaker 1: could find you know, I could cast any writer. And 224 00:14:09,516 --> 00:14:13,436 Speaker 1: I knew that Glenn loved Roy, and I knew that 225 00:14:13,596 --> 00:14:15,836 Speaker 1: he wrote great songs, and I knew that he would 226 00:14:15,876 --> 00:14:18,836 Speaker 1: write a different song than anyone else who might write 227 00:14:18,836 --> 00:14:21,156 Speaker 1: a song for Roy Orbison would write and I wanted 228 00:14:21,196 --> 00:14:25,476 Speaker 1: to hear what that was. And he wrote, he wrote 229 00:14:25,756 --> 00:14:27,956 Speaker 1: the song. He wrote, and we went and we played 230 00:14:27,996 --> 00:14:30,476 Speaker 1: it for Roy, Me, Glenn and Roy. I remember we 231 00:14:30,556 --> 00:14:33,916 Speaker 1: went to Roy's house in Malibu and Glenn played him 232 00:14:33,956 --> 00:14:36,476 Speaker 1: the song and he loved Glenn just play it live 233 00:14:36,556 --> 00:14:39,236 Speaker 1: for him, like played, So I think he did. Yeah. 234 00:14:39,356 --> 00:14:42,596 Speaker 1: I can't really remember, but I think he did yeah. 235 00:14:42,676 --> 00:14:46,876 Speaker 1: And then and he's like, Okay, I'm in let's do it. Yeah. 236 00:14:47,396 --> 00:14:49,716 Speaker 1: But then takes a lot of I mean, that's a nice, beautiful, 237 00:14:49,956 --> 00:14:54,436 Speaker 1: complicated relationship to voice and melody and connecting to artists 238 00:14:54,476 --> 00:14:57,956 Speaker 1: who are makes so much sense. And and also Glenn's 239 00:14:58,156 --> 00:15:00,756 Speaker 1: song on the first American record is That's I think 240 00:15:00,756 --> 00:15:04,156 Speaker 1: it's my favorite song on the because he's so good, 241 00:15:04,236 --> 00:15:07,556 Speaker 1: he's so brilliant at But but knowing, I mean, you 242 00:15:07,676 --> 00:15:11,956 Speaker 1: have to understand, you have to have a pretty deep 243 00:15:12,116 --> 00:15:15,916 Speaker 1: understanding of what a lyric is rick to risk, to 244 00:15:16,036 --> 00:15:18,036 Speaker 1: take that risk, to know that it's a it's a 245 00:15:18,156 --> 00:15:20,796 Speaker 1: risk that's going to pay off, because most people would 246 00:15:20,836 --> 00:15:23,556 Speaker 1: would laugh at you. You know, I wouldn't let you 247 00:15:23,596 --> 00:15:24,876 Speaker 1: know when we were when we were kids and we 248 00:15:24,996 --> 00:15:27,796 Speaker 1: heard this legend that that Glenn had just you know 249 00:15:27,996 --> 00:15:29,676 Speaker 1: it was working with Roy Orbison. We you know, it 250 00:15:29,756 --> 00:15:33,676 Speaker 1: took us a year before we realized it was the truth. 251 00:15:33,716 --> 00:15:38,356 Speaker 1: It sounded so ridiculously far fetched and perfect, but you 252 00:15:38,516 --> 00:15:41,356 Speaker 1: had to have an understanding of like, oh, well, this 253 00:15:41,556 --> 00:15:44,916 Speaker 1: guy understands how to build a song lyrically as well 254 00:15:44,956 --> 00:15:48,836 Speaker 1: as melodically, and he probably studied under these masters, and 255 00:15:48,916 --> 00:15:50,316 Speaker 1: so I can put him in the same room with 256 00:15:50,396 --> 00:15:52,916 Speaker 1: these guys and everything's going to be just fine. It's 257 00:15:52,956 --> 00:15:55,476 Speaker 1: also interesting this leads back to something we were talking 258 00:15:55,476 --> 00:15:58,436 Speaker 1: about earlier about people doing great work when they're young. 259 00:16:00,236 --> 00:16:03,596 Speaker 1: That we had. We had the elder statesman and Roy 260 00:16:04,556 --> 00:16:07,676 Speaker 1: who could still do what Roy does, and we had 261 00:16:07,836 --> 00:16:11,476 Speaker 1: the the performative performatively, and we had the young energy 262 00:16:12,516 --> 00:16:20,076 Speaker 1: of Glenn Danzig like prime songwriting and it and I 263 00:16:20,156 --> 00:16:22,356 Speaker 1: guess you could say the same things true for Trent 264 00:16:22,516 --> 00:16:26,556 Speaker 1: Resiner and Hurt with Johnny. It's like, even though when 265 00:16:26,636 --> 00:16:28,636 Speaker 1: Johnny sings it, it sounds like he wrote it, it 266 00:16:28,676 --> 00:16:32,236 Speaker 1: sounds like he's telling his story, but the fact that 267 00:16:32,276 --> 00:16:33,956 Speaker 1: it's written by, you know, a twenty two year old 268 00:16:34,036 --> 00:16:37,156 Speaker 1: kid in his bedroom. It's just fascinating. It's fascinating how 269 00:16:37,236 --> 00:16:42,036 Speaker 1: that works. Yeah, or I see a darkness in Johnny Cash. 270 00:16:42,796 --> 00:16:45,836 Speaker 1: Same deal, Same deal. I wanted to I wanted now 271 00:16:45,876 --> 00:16:47,956 Speaker 1: that I've always wanted to see the two of you 272 00:16:48,036 --> 00:16:53,636 Speaker 1: guys together and ask about that that scenario which was Rick, 273 00:16:53,716 --> 00:16:56,196 Speaker 1: I saw you at a party. I just gotten back 274 00:16:56,276 --> 00:16:58,756 Speaker 1: from a European tour with Will, and we had a 275 00:16:58,836 --> 00:17:00,796 Speaker 1: bonus show in New York. And I knew that you 276 00:17:00,796 --> 00:17:03,676 Speaker 1: would you had been in contact with you would ask 277 00:17:03,716 --> 00:17:06,116 Speaker 1: for some Will records because you were working with Johnny Cash. 278 00:17:06,596 --> 00:17:09,916 Speaker 1: You were interested in in him checking Will's music. I 279 00:17:10,636 --> 00:17:13,156 Speaker 1: had that intel, soho I went up to you, invited 280 00:17:13,196 --> 00:17:15,596 Speaker 1: you to the show, and you were enthusiastic, and you 281 00:17:15,636 --> 00:17:18,556 Speaker 1: went to the show, and then you guys could take 282 00:17:18,596 --> 00:17:20,596 Speaker 1: over from there. Just about how it came to pass 283 00:17:20,676 --> 00:17:23,556 Speaker 1: that Johnny Cash ended up doing one of Will's songs. Well, 284 00:17:23,596 --> 00:17:27,556 Speaker 1: I didn't remember what you just I didn't remember meeting 285 00:17:27,596 --> 00:17:29,476 Speaker 1: you at a party. Yeah, I didn't remember coming to 286 00:17:29,556 --> 00:17:32,196 Speaker 1: the show, although I did remember seeing you in New York, 287 00:17:33,156 --> 00:17:38,356 Speaker 1: Will at where was it Awry Ballroom? Yeah? And it was. 288 00:17:38,556 --> 00:17:42,156 Speaker 1: It was a mesmerizing show. It was a mesmerizing show. 289 00:17:42,276 --> 00:17:44,556 Speaker 1: It was a mind blowing show. And that's where and 290 00:17:44,596 --> 00:17:46,276 Speaker 1: then I think that's where. I think that's where you. Yeah, 291 00:17:46,316 --> 00:17:50,156 Speaker 1: you said that you all had cut the song and 292 00:17:50,436 --> 00:17:55,116 Speaker 1: we're you know, and you said if I wanted to 293 00:17:55,236 --> 00:17:57,236 Speaker 1: come out and or come to a session and play 294 00:17:57,316 --> 00:18:00,036 Speaker 1: the piano part on it, that that that was something 295 00:18:00,116 --> 00:18:02,956 Speaker 1: that was needed for the song. And I agreed, and 296 00:18:03,076 --> 00:18:06,116 Speaker 1: we exchanged numbers, and then a couple of days later 297 00:18:06,356 --> 00:18:08,236 Speaker 1: I called you and left a message admitting that I 298 00:18:08,556 --> 00:18:11,236 Speaker 1: didn't know how to play the piano and asking if 299 00:18:11,236 --> 00:18:13,836 Speaker 1: I could. I think I said just that I had 300 00:18:13,876 --> 00:18:16,396 Speaker 1: no expectations, but the only if there was any way 301 00:18:16,796 --> 00:18:20,156 Speaker 1: that I could be around John and June for for 302 00:18:20,236 --> 00:18:24,716 Speaker 1: any moments, because they were, you know, together end separately heroes, 303 00:18:24,836 --> 00:18:27,756 Speaker 1: and it's so rare, you know, because of so many 304 00:18:27,996 --> 00:18:31,476 Speaker 1: bizarre communication and other logistical walls. It's so rare for 305 00:18:32,916 --> 00:18:36,636 Speaker 1: younger musicians to have access to their heroes. And so 306 00:18:36,876 --> 00:18:39,276 Speaker 1: here's this little crack, and I was just like, if 307 00:18:39,276 --> 00:18:41,796 Speaker 1: I could, you know, yeah, you I had your ear, 308 00:18:41,836 --> 00:18:43,116 Speaker 1: and if I could, if I could just sit and 309 00:18:43,236 --> 00:18:47,036 Speaker 1: watch them do something working, and you were kind enough 310 00:18:47,076 --> 00:18:50,036 Speaker 1: to say, yeah, Okay, we'll be right back with more 311 00:18:50,156 --> 00:18:56,676 Speaker 1: from will all Them and Matt Sweeney. We're back with 312 00:18:56,836 --> 00:19:00,236 Speaker 1: Rick Rubin, will all Them and Matt Sweeney. How did 313 00:19:00,276 --> 00:19:05,516 Speaker 1: you guys meet on the street by our friend Britt Walford, 314 00:19:05,516 --> 00:19:08,076 Speaker 1: the drummer from Slint and Britain Britain I grew up 315 00:19:08,076 --> 00:19:10,156 Speaker 1: with together. Yeah, it was. It was. It was when 316 00:19:10,276 --> 00:19:13,996 Speaker 1: like the I See a Darkness record, We my brother 317 00:19:14,116 --> 00:19:16,916 Speaker 1: and some other musicians and I had started a small 318 00:19:16,996 --> 00:19:20,036 Speaker 1: a smaller record label than Drag City UM to put 319 00:19:20,076 --> 00:19:22,956 Speaker 1: out a few records, including I See a Darkness. And 320 00:19:23,276 --> 00:19:25,516 Speaker 1: since we were, in many ways starting from scratch, I 321 00:19:25,876 --> 00:19:28,956 Speaker 1: moved to the big city to uh, you know, get 322 00:19:29,036 --> 00:19:31,836 Speaker 1: a to hire hire a publicist, and just to be 323 00:19:32,036 --> 00:19:36,996 Speaker 1: more present for the delivery of this record than because 324 00:19:36,996 --> 00:19:39,276 Speaker 1: I just knew I needed to be, just to figure out, well, 325 00:19:39,316 --> 00:19:41,716 Speaker 1: how do you put a record out? And and so 326 00:19:41,756 --> 00:19:43,676 Speaker 1: I was in New York and that's when we started 327 00:19:43,716 --> 00:19:48,436 Speaker 1: to become friends. Tell me about the choice of recording 328 00:19:48,556 --> 00:19:53,116 Speaker 1: under different names. For a long time, I thought, you know, records, 329 00:19:55,396 --> 00:19:57,476 Speaker 1: why not file them under the title of the record 330 00:19:58,636 --> 00:20:01,996 Speaker 1: because they are such, you know, oftentimes such different and 331 00:20:02,076 --> 00:20:05,556 Speaker 1: distinct entities. UM and that, you know, it can be 332 00:20:05,716 --> 00:20:07,756 Speaker 1: completely like it could be the same artist, but there's 333 00:20:07,836 --> 00:20:10,116 Speaker 1: nobody else except for the artist, the art you know, 334 00:20:10,196 --> 00:20:13,596 Speaker 1: quote unquote artist that's the same from another record. So 335 00:20:13,756 --> 00:20:15,916 Speaker 1: why not just say it's a record, it's this record. 336 00:20:16,516 --> 00:20:19,156 Speaker 1: And so for just a few years in the nineties 337 00:20:19,196 --> 00:20:21,076 Speaker 1: and when I was trying to figure out what it 338 00:20:21,236 --> 00:20:23,716 Speaker 1: was to make music and write songs and make records, 339 00:20:24,076 --> 00:20:28,556 Speaker 1: just thought, ah, well, I don't you know, for me, 340 00:20:28,676 --> 00:20:30,116 Speaker 1: I just want to make records. I don't want to 341 00:20:30,356 --> 00:20:33,316 Speaker 1: create an artist persona or an artist name or a 342 00:20:33,356 --> 00:20:34,916 Speaker 1: band or anything like that. I just want to make 343 00:20:34,956 --> 00:20:37,876 Speaker 1: a record, you know, keep making records. And thought, well, 344 00:20:37,916 --> 00:20:39,716 Speaker 1: if I modify the name a little bit, just to 345 00:20:39,796 --> 00:20:42,156 Speaker 1: reflect that you should be focusing on the record and 346 00:20:42,236 --> 00:20:46,076 Speaker 1: not on anything else. It turned out, you know, I 347 00:20:46,196 --> 00:20:48,556 Speaker 1: learned in a few years just the model was too 348 00:20:49,276 --> 00:20:54,276 Speaker 1: foreign to how things work. And people started to, you know, say, well, 349 00:20:54,316 --> 00:20:56,196 Speaker 1: what's up with the names, and it's like, no, no, 350 00:20:56,836 --> 00:21:00,916 Speaker 1: that's the opposite, you know, it's you know, so I realized, like, oh, well, 351 00:21:00,956 --> 00:21:02,916 Speaker 1: just come up with a name and then forget about it. 352 00:21:03,116 --> 00:21:04,676 Speaker 1: So it just came up with the name Bonding Prince 353 00:21:04,756 --> 00:21:07,436 Speaker 1: Billy and just it doesn't mean anything. It's just a 354 00:21:07,516 --> 00:21:11,596 Speaker 1: way for distributors and you know, streaming services to you know, 355 00:21:12,036 --> 00:21:15,956 Speaker 1: organize things. From the outside, it seemed like you were 356 00:21:16,556 --> 00:21:19,556 Speaker 1: doing whatever you could to have people not find your work. 357 00:21:19,716 --> 00:21:22,716 Speaker 1: That's what it seemed like. I never just like like, wow, 358 00:21:22,916 --> 00:21:24,596 Speaker 1: I guess he doesn't want us to hear it, because 359 00:21:24,636 --> 00:21:26,596 Speaker 1: we want to want people to find it, not based 360 00:21:26,676 --> 00:21:30,516 Speaker 1: on a name, you know, based on you know, way 361 00:21:30,556 --> 00:21:33,196 Speaker 1: based on do you hearing it on the radio, or 362 00:21:33,556 --> 00:21:35,516 Speaker 1: a friend saying I like this song. Do you like 363 00:21:35,676 --> 00:21:38,236 Speaker 1: this song? Yes, I like this song, and not like, oh, 364 00:21:38,276 --> 00:21:40,876 Speaker 1: I'm so into fucking you know whatever the birthday party 365 00:21:40,916 --> 00:21:45,076 Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, that's cool. That's that said, I'm 366 00:21:45,156 --> 00:21:49,076 Speaker 1: so into and just be like okay, well, you know, 367 00:21:49,276 --> 00:21:52,236 Speaker 1: yeah Bridges to Babylon insane record, dude, but you know, yeah, 368 00:21:52,316 --> 00:21:53,836 Speaker 1: so so just you know, have it be as much 369 00:21:53,836 --> 00:21:55,596 Speaker 1: about the music as possible. That was That was it, 370 00:21:55,716 --> 00:21:57,636 Speaker 1: And just have it not be as you know, as 371 00:21:57,676 --> 00:22:00,036 Speaker 1: little bullshit as possible, so that when you go to 372 00:22:00,156 --> 00:22:01,796 Speaker 1: play shows, you know, you don't have a bunch of 373 00:22:02,036 --> 00:22:04,316 Speaker 1: you know, people who don't care where they are. They 374 00:22:04,396 --> 00:22:05,956 Speaker 1: care where they are they you know, you have a 375 00:22:06,036 --> 00:22:10,556 Speaker 1: room full of good It's a wild choice, you know. Rick, 376 00:22:11,516 --> 00:22:13,836 Speaker 1: So when I met when I met Will, So we 377 00:22:13,876 --> 00:22:15,796 Speaker 1: had a friendship through our friend Brick. But then in 378 00:22:15,876 --> 00:22:18,356 Speaker 1: the office I asked him the same question because he 379 00:22:18,436 --> 00:22:20,676 Speaker 1: had just made this record Colossia Darkness, and he's called 380 00:22:20,716 --> 00:22:23,436 Speaker 1: himself Bonnie Prince Billy, and so I remember it like 381 00:22:23,516 --> 00:22:25,636 Speaker 1: I was actually sitting behind a desk and I was like, dude, 382 00:22:25,676 --> 00:22:28,196 Speaker 1: why are you calling it Bonnie Prince Billy? And I remember, 383 00:22:28,236 --> 00:22:30,396 Speaker 1: WILLI you go, I'm trying to alienate my fan base. 384 00:22:33,116 --> 00:22:36,476 Speaker 1: It worked, Yeah, No, it didn't work because that was kids. 385 00:22:37,516 --> 00:22:39,436 Speaker 1: The opposite happened. I mean, if the idea is just 386 00:22:39,596 --> 00:22:42,196 Speaker 1: like that, now I can still we can you know, 387 00:22:42,356 --> 00:22:44,156 Speaker 1: we can go play shows and I can I can 388 00:22:44,236 --> 00:22:49,156 Speaker 1: look forward to meeting people, which I do because because 389 00:22:49,236 --> 00:22:52,516 Speaker 1: there was a consistency, because people are there not because 390 00:22:52,636 --> 00:22:55,756 Speaker 1: of you know, whatever they're they're there because they they're 391 00:22:56,636 --> 00:22:59,916 Speaker 1: anticipating that they may witness some music that's gonna do 392 00:23:00,076 --> 00:23:03,116 Speaker 1: something for them. Do you remember when you each heard 393 00:23:03,236 --> 00:23:05,956 Speaker 1: the other one for the first time? Yeah, I had. 394 00:23:06,036 --> 00:23:08,996 Speaker 1: I knew Will's recorded music, and I'd seen him play live, 395 00:23:09,156 --> 00:23:11,876 Speaker 1: but yeah, the first I mean again, it happened really quickly, 396 00:23:11,956 --> 00:23:14,156 Speaker 1: like Will came over to where me and Britt were saying, 397 00:23:14,196 --> 00:23:16,636 Speaker 1: and I had a guitar and I was dicking around 398 00:23:16,676 --> 00:23:18,116 Speaker 1: on it, and Will said, oh, that sounds really good, 399 00:23:19,076 --> 00:23:22,876 Speaker 1: and then we were recording a few days later, recording 400 00:23:22,916 --> 00:23:25,916 Speaker 1: a few days later for what There's a French film 401 00:23:25,956 --> 00:23:28,756 Speaker 1: director named Bertrand Bonello and he had made a he 402 00:23:28,836 --> 00:23:31,396 Speaker 1: was weight making a movie called Kilcus Show's Door Ganique 403 00:23:31,596 --> 00:23:34,596 Speaker 1: and he wanted to h I think he wanted to 404 00:23:34,676 --> 00:23:39,116 Speaker 1: license the song that I had recorded, and I said, 405 00:23:39,396 --> 00:23:42,516 Speaker 1: I don't like to license songs, but if you would 406 00:23:42,556 --> 00:23:45,316 Speaker 1: consider commissioning a song, I'd like to, you know, I'd 407 00:23:45,356 --> 00:23:47,076 Speaker 1: love to write a song, you know, and if you 408 00:23:47,156 --> 00:23:50,036 Speaker 1: have the time to do that, and he bit so 409 00:23:50,836 --> 00:23:53,756 Speaker 1: he you know, I told me the story and gave 410 00:23:53,796 --> 00:23:56,956 Speaker 1: me give us a time frame. And that's right when 411 00:23:57,436 --> 00:23:59,516 Speaker 1: Matt picked up his guitar and I was working on 412 00:23:59,636 --> 00:24:02,716 Speaker 1: this song and just said, I'm supposed to record this 413 00:24:02,796 --> 00:24:05,916 Speaker 1: song sometime in the next couple of weeks. Are you down? 414 00:24:06,356 --> 00:24:07,796 Speaker 1: And it was interesting, It was it was kind of 415 00:24:07,956 --> 00:24:10,596 Speaker 1: around the time that I had I feel like turned 416 00:24:10,636 --> 00:24:13,276 Speaker 1: into corner on guitar, and I a sort of confidently fingerpick, 417 00:24:13,356 --> 00:24:17,916 Speaker 1: and I had kind of made a leap in playing guitar. 418 00:24:18,236 --> 00:24:19,996 Speaker 1: Come to think of it, actually, what like like I 419 00:24:20,276 --> 00:24:22,316 Speaker 1: had sort of gotten finger picking down right when I 420 00:24:22,396 --> 00:24:24,796 Speaker 1: met you, Will. Yeah, it felt it felt new too, 421 00:24:24,916 --> 00:24:28,676 Speaker 1: like you were really writing it. Yeah, it was really exciting, Matt. 422 00:24:28,756 --> 00:24:31,396 Speaker 1: What had you done already in music at this point 423 00:24:31,476 --> 00:24:36,076 Speaker 1: when you met Will? I had done I had When 424 00:24:36,076 --> 00:24:38,756 Speaker 1: I met Will, I had already done Chavez, which was 425 00:24:38,836 --> 00:24:42,276 Speaker 1: my nineties rock band, which still maybe we'll play again, 426 00:24:42,996 --> 00:24:45,916 Speaker 1: but yeah, so I had done that, and it had 427 00:24:45,956 --> 00:24:50,796 Speaker 1: been slowing down. The other band members were moving on 428 00:24:50,876 --> 00:24:53,316 Speaker 1: with their lives and stuff, so so I was. I 429 00:24:53,356 --> 00:24:55,436 Speaker 1: actually had some time and was sort of in a 430 00:24:55,556 --> 00:24:59,276 Speaker 1: space of uh, not having my regular band to play with, 431 00:24:59,356 --> 00:25:01,036 Speaker 1: and I sang for that band, and that band was 432 00:25:01,196 --> 00:25:04,116 Speaker 1: very much of a collaborative kind of thing, and then 433 00:25:04,116 --> 00:25:05,436 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I kind of didn't have as 434 00:25:05,516 --> 00:25:08,916 Speaker 1: much to do, and I've been finger picking and stuff. 435 00:25:09,396 --> 00:25:11,436 Speaker 1: It was it was fortuitous that I met like a 436 00:25:11,516 --> 00:25:13,436 Speaker 1: good singer who was who shared a lot of the 437 00:25:13,476 --> 00:25:16,676 Speaker 1: same tastes in music that I did, and whose songs 438 00:25:16,716 --> 00:25:20,316 Speaker 1: I liked, which is Will and you played and sang me, yeah, 439 00:25:20,556 --> 00:25:22,796 Speaker 1: I didn't know that you sang come on, dude, had 440 00:25:22,876 --> 00:25:25,956 Speaker 1: no idea. You didn't really had no idea. I had 441 00:25:25,956 --> 00:25:29,436 Speaker 1: a really exciting moment, Rick. I was opening on a 442 00:25:29,556 --> 00:25:31,796 Speaker 1: tour for New York and there was a couple of 443 00:25:31,836 --> 00:25:33,716 Speaker 1: days off and I wanted to see and we were 444 00:25:33,756 --> 00:25:35,196 Speaker 1: in the New York area, so I went out to 445 00:25:35,316 --> 00:25:37,996 Speaker 1: mont Talk because I wanted to see it. I've never 446 00:25:38,076 --> 00:25:40,916 Speaker 1: been there. And you know, got a motel room and 447 00:25:40,996 --> 00:25:43,316 Speaker 1: I went to the gas station. They had DVDs for rent, 448 00:25:43,396 --> 00:25:45,236 Speaker 1: and I rented a DVD to watch a movie in 449 00:25:45,316 --> 00:25:48,156 Speaker 1: my little motel room. And it's it's a movie about 450 00:25:48,196 --> 00:25:50,596 Speaker 1: it's a sort of a comedy, a meth comedy, you know, 451 00:25:50,716 --> 00:25:54,196 Speaker 1: a crystal meth comedy called Spun. And I just put 452 00:25:54,276 --> 00:25:58,596 Speaker 1: it on and this, you know, the opening song comes on. 453 00:25:58,716 --> 00:26:02,516 Speaker 1: It's really cool sounding. It sounds fucking great, and just 454 00:26:02,636 --> 00:26:06,076 Speaker 1: the music sounds great, and then uh, and it's guitars 455 00:26:06,116 --> 00:26:09,476 Speaker 1: and then this voice comes on and I'm like, ah, 456 00:26:10,156 --> 00:26:13,636 Speaker 1: I know this voice. I know that it's this song's 457 00:26:13,716 --> 00:26:15,956 Speaker 1: so cool, it's so good, it's so effective. I know 458 00:26:16,116 --> 00:26:18,196 Speaker 1: this voice, but I couldn't figure out what it was, 459 00:26:18,236 --> 00:26:19,396 Speaker 1: and I had to wait till the end credits, and 460 00:26:19,476 --> 00:26:22,116 Speaker 1: it turns out it was Sweeney singing a cover of 461 00:26:22,996 --> 00:26:26,436 Speaker 1: Iron Maiden's Number of the Beasts with the sort of 462 00:26:26,756 --> 00:26:30,116 Speaker 1: acoustic version of the Zuan band that he was a 463 00:26:30,196 --> 00:26:33,676 Speaker 1: part of back in the early two thousands. Amazing. Yeah, 464 00:26:33,876 --> 00:26:35,636 Speaker 1: was it just the two of you? It was just 465 00:26:35,796 --> 00:26:39,156 Speaker 1: Meat guitar and Corrigan kind of looking yeah. Yeah. It's 466 00:26:39,196 --> 00:26:42,156 Speaker 1: really a sweet, sweet sounding song and the and the 467 00:26:42,236 --> 00:26:46,556 Speaker 1: vocals are awesome. So as soon as that that, you know, discontinued, 468 00:26:47,156 --> 00:26:49,516 Speaker 1: the first thing that I think either of us did 469 00:26:49,596 --> 00:26:52,276 Speaker 1: musically when Zuan ended was get together and make the 470 00:26:52,436 --> 00:26:58,196 Speaker 1: Superwolf record. Wow. Yeah, Yeah. What had happened was, yeah, 471 00:26:58,556 --> 00:27:00,676 Speaker 1: the Juan stop playing. Kind of in the middle of 472 00:27:00,676 --> 00:27:01,916 Speaker 1: a tour, all of a sudden, I was back in 473 00:27:01,916 --> 00:27:03,916 Speaker 1: New York and Will wrote and said, Hey, I have 474 00:27:03,996 --> 00:27:06,876 Speaker 1: a show. I have a solo show booked at a 475 00:27:06,956 --> 00:27:10,276 Speaker 1: big venue in London. Would you want to maybe come 476 00:27:10,636 --> 00:27:12,876 Speaker 1: and you know, I'll come over there and you can 477 00:27:12,916 --> 00:27:14,916 Speaker 1: play a couple of songs and stuff. And there was 478 00:27:14,956 --> 00:27:17,276 Speaker 1: a tacit understanding that I was kind of screwed. They 479 00:27:17,356 --> 00:27:19,036 Speaker 1: got Unwill's part, so it was it was a nice 480 00:27:19,076 --> 00:27:21,396 Speaker 1: offer for just for something for me to ev and 481 00:27:21,476 --> 00:27:24,476 Speaker 1: do and then and I said yes, And then he 482 00:27:24,676 --> 00:27:27,996 Speaker 1: wrote and the email it wrote an email and said challenge. 483 00:27:28,036 --> 00:27:29,316 Speaker 1: And he said, hey, how about I send you some 484 00:27:29,476 --> 00:27:32,196 Speaker 1: lyrics and you write some songs and we play them 485 00:27:32,316 --> 00:27:35,636 Speaker 1: at that show. So I said okay, And so then 486 00:27:35,676 --> 00:27:38,556 Speaker 1: he sent the lyrics to what are you Beast for THEE? 487 00:27:38,596 --> 00:27:41,516 Speaker 1: And bed is for Sleeping? Yeah, and so so so 488 00:27:41,636 --> 00:27:43,036 Speaker 1: that was the beginning of Super Bowl. So I have 489 00:27:43,116 --> 00:27:46,356 Speaker 1: these lyrics, you know, and and I have to write 490 00:27:46,396 --> 00:27:48,316 Speaker 1: a song to play in front of like three thousand 491 00:27:48,396 --> 00:27:50,756 Speaker 1: people in London in like a month or something like that. 492 00:27:51,236 --> 00:27:54,076 Speaker 1: Unbelievable and it's a challenge. When somebody says that, it's 493 00:27:54,196 --> 00:27:56,076 Speaker 1: it's kind of terrifying, you know what I mean. But 494 00:27:56,156 --> 00:28:00,356 Speaker 1: then at the same time it made me respond, you know, 495 00:28:00,556 --> 00:28:03,356 Speaker 1: and getting these incredible lyrics and then being like, holy shit, 496 00:28:03,436 --> 00:28:05,396 Speaker 1: I had this guy thinks I'm good enough to do this, 497 00:28:05,676 --> 00:28:08,836 Speaker 1: And then that made me do good work. Do you guys? 498 00:28:09,236 --> 00:28:11,876 Speaker 1: If we listen to the beast in me a Beast 499 00:28:11,956 --> 00:28:37,876 Speaker 1: for THEE? I'm sorry wrong song, Let's do it. Why 500 00:28:37,996 --> 00:28:49,316 Speaker 1: aren't you come to me? You could so easily take 501 00:28:49,436 --> 00:29:01,996 Speaker 1: me in your arms and see they donkey a beast 502 00:29:02,316 --> 00:29:19,676 Speaker 1: for thee. If you had half a mind, eve worldly 503 00:29:19,916 --> 00:29:37,116 Speaker 1: things behind, devote to be kind you too, me beast 504 00:29:37,476 --> 00:29:46,756 Speaker 1: for thee. Love in some way choose God's plan. Can 505 00:29:47,116 --> 00:29:55,436 Speaker 1: easy boos one bone and blood mass we fuges, and 506 00:29:55,876 --> 00:30:06,036 Speaker 1: I can be beast for thee. So hearing that, it 507 00:30:06,196 --> 00:30:07,996 Speaker 1: just makes me wonder, why do you guys ever make 508 00:30:08,076 --> 00:30:16,116 Speaker 1: musical part? You need to make that. Yeah, I mean, 509 00:30:16,196 --> 00:30:22,996 Speaker 1: the joy of collaboration is comes from accessing somebody else's world, 510 00:30:23,116 --> 00:30:26,676 Speaker 1: and if if if you're already fully full time accessing 511 00:30:26,756 --> 00:30:30,596 Speaker 1: that person's world, you know, it's the joy is Yeah, 512 00:30:30,636 --> 00:30:32,676 Speaker 1: going out and doing things and then coming back together. 513 00:30:32,676 --> 00:30:34,996 Speaker 1: And this is what I got. Oh yeah, well this 514 00:30:35,116 --> 00:30:37,076 Speaker 1: is what I got. Oh no, you also have this 515 00:30:37,876 --> 00:30:41,236 Speaker 1: amazing yeah for sure. Like I was thinking when I 516 00:30:41,316 --> 00:30:42,796 Speaker 1: was listening to that, I was like, it really is 517 00:30:42,876 --> 00:30:47,996 Speaker 1: cool how this music sounds. The record that that that's 518 00:30:48,036 --> 00:30:50,716 Speaker 1: coming out sounds like this record that's sixteen years old, 519 00:30:51,036 --> 00:30:54,476 Speaker 1: Like it's just it's all one thing. But I was 520 00:30:54,516 --> 00:30:57,196 Speaker 1: thinking that the reason that this record, that the new 521 00:30:57,236 --> 00:30:59,156 Speaker 1: record is good, has a lot to do with experiences 522 00:30:59,196 --> 00:31:01,276 Speaker 1: that I had with you, Rick, just as far as 523 00:31:01,356 --> 00:31:05,636 Speaker 1: like being thrown so many Kerner balls in high pressure situations, 524 00:31:05,876 --> 00:31:08,756 Speaker 1: you know, Like, I mean, dude, I had no idea 525 00:31:08,876 --> 00:31:10,956 Speaker 1: what I was doing. I told it the first time 526 00:31:10,996 --> 00:31:13,556 Speaker 1: that I met you were I was like, I was like, thanks, 527 00:31:13,676 --> 00:31:15,036 Speaker 1: I don't know what I'm what do I do? I 528 00:31:15,076 --> 00:31:16,876 Speaker 1: don't know what I'm doing? And you had you had 529 00:31:16,916 --> 00:31:20,076 Speaker 1: this really empowering line, you know. I was like, so 530 00:31:20,676 --> 00:31:23,676 Speaker 1: this is we were recording Johnny Cash songs. We were 531 00:31:23,716 --> 00:31:26,396 Speaker 1: recording you just to a click track and Johnny Cash's voice, 532 00:31:26,556 --> 00:31:29,116 Speaker 1: and it's Tom Petty's band, and I'm the new guy 533 00:31:30,036 --> 00:31:32,236 Speaker 1: and it's Tom Petty's band, plus Smoky Hormel. He's like 534 00:31:32,236 --> 00:31:35,076 Speaker 1: the world's greatest guitar player. And then it's me and 535 00:31:35,316 --> 00:31:37,956 Speaker 1: I's and Rickett invited me into this, into this group, 536 00:31:38,156 --> 00:31:41,156 Speaker 1: and and and you know, I was like, like, do 537 00:31:41,316 --> 00:31:43,756 Speaker 1: I like just make up stuff like what I would 538 00:31:43,956 --> 00:31:46,316 Speaker 1: do normally, Like just kind of make up stuff like 539 00:31:46,396 --> 00:31:49,556 Speaker 1: what if that's not appropriate? And you go, Rick says, 540 00:31:50,196 --> 00:31:57,556 Speaker 1: you're isolated. We could just hit a race. Yes, But 541 00:31:57,716 --> 00:31:59,516 Speaker 1: what was so great? It was a great thing because 542 00:31:59,516 --> 00:32:02,636 Speaker 1: I was like, it totally me. Yeah, it made me 543 00:32:02,676 --> 00:32:05,596 Speaker 1: feel really really free. And also I think you I 544 00:32:05,636 --> 00:32:07,076 Speaker 1: think you said, you know, I think you said, you know, 545 00:32:07,236 --> 00:32:09,236 Speaker 1: you do you like do what you want to do. 546 00:32:09,316 --> 00:32:10,876 Speaker 1: You're isolated. We could always say to race and then 547 00:32:10,916 --> 00:32:13,716 Speaker 1: you kind of gave a devilish smile. Um, But like 548 00:32:15,036 --> 00:32:16,956 Speaker 1: that was a really big deal, you know, just even 549 00:32:17,076 --> 00:32:19,676 Speaker 1: that was like all right, you know, like I definitely 550 00:32:19,716 --> 00:32:23,196 Speaker 1: felt like going back in with Will was like, okay, 551 00:32:23,276 --> 00:32:25,396 Speaker 1: I could, I could get to where we need to 552 00:32:25,436 --> 00:32:28,916 Speaker 1: go quicker, and I feel way more sure footed and stuff. 553 00:32:28,996 --> 00:32:31,836 Speaker 1: And also I'm really grateful that I had the time 554 00:32:31,916 --> 00:32:34,876 Speaker 1: to be to stumble around the dark and be terrified 555 00:32:34,916 --> 00:32:37,716 Speaker 1: and have all these experiences that led like I can't 556 00:32:37,716 --> 00:32:39,636 Speaker 1: sound the way that I sound that I sound now 557 00:32:39,716 --> 00:32:44,356 Speaker 1: without having all this crazy you know, face plants and 558 00:32:44,876 --> 00:32:49,356 Speaker 1: successes and just general high wire terror that that that 559 00:32:49,756 --> 00:32:53,556 Speaker 1: you provided me with. Thanks, Well, the reason you were 560 00:32:53,596 --> 00:32:56,036 Speaker 1: there was to do what you do. That's the only 561 00:32:56,196 --> 00:32:58,996 Speaker 1: like if it was just to have someone play guitar. 562 00:32:59,156 --> 00:33:00,956 Speaker 1: There's a lot of people who play guitar, but I 563 00:33:01,156 --> 00:33:03,636 Speaker 1: wanted Matt Sweeney to play guitar. And the only reason 564 00:33:03,716 --> 00:33:05,516 Speaker 1: you want Matt Sweeney to play guitars because he plays 565 00:33:05,516 --> 00:33:08,876 Speaker 1: like Matt Sweeney. Yeah, it's so cool how Matt Sweeney 566 00:33:08,916 --> 00:33:12,956 Speaker 1: play like Matt Sweeney, just like it's it's amazing. It's ridiculous, 567 00:33:13,036 --> 00:33:14,756 Speaker 1: sciting to be in the recording studio and to hear 568 00:33:14,836 --> 00:33:16,796 Speaker 1: you know, and to hear it, you know, going down 569 00:33:16,876 --> 00:33:19,436 Speaker 1: on tape or what passes for tape right now is 570 00:33:19,476 --> 00:33:22,996 Speaker 1: just to hear it and just think, well, there it is, 571 00:33:23,036 --> 00:33:26,516 Speaker 1: it's right there. It's really funny that you're you had 572 00:33:26,556 --> 00:33:31,076 Speaker 1: that moment renting a DVD and hearing a voice and 573 00:33:31,196 --> 00:33:33,916 Speaker 1: wondering who it was, and it being Matt and me 574 00:33:34,476 --> 00:33:37,756 Speaker 1: listening to the Superwolf album and hearing that guitar and 575 00:33:37,956 --> 00:33:41,196 Speaker 1: going who is that? And both of us came to 576 00:33:41,356 --> 00:33:45,396 Speaker 1: Matt and and it's interesting that, like, for you, the 577 00:33:45,516 --> 00:33:48,516 Speaker 1: vocal was the spark from me the guitar with the spark, 578 00:33:48,636 --> 00:33:51,436 Speaker 1: But it definitely came from not knowing what we were 579 00:33:51,516 --> 00:33:55,836 Speaker 1: listening to. To like, whoa this and to hear something 580 00:33:55,956 --> 00:33:57,716 Speaker 1: that you don't know what it is and to care 581 00:33:57,916 --> 00:34:02,836 Speaker 1: enough about finding what it is is a really big deal. 582 00:34:03,156 --> 00:34:06,116 Speaker 1: That doesn't happen again, It doesn't happen so often, especially 583 00:34:06,556 --> 00:34:10,396 Speaker 1: in the pre Shazam days. It was really uh yeah, 584 00:34:11,116 --> 00:34:14,036 Speaker 1: a job to make that happen. Now. I was I 585 00:34:14,116 --> 00:34:16,076 Speaker 1: was talking to someone about the first time I heard 586 00:34:16,236 --> 00:34:19,556 Speaker 1: the Sean Marshall cat Power and it was on the 587 00:34:19,716 --> 00:34:23,116 Speaker 1: radio and Virginia somewhere, and it was a woman singing 588 00:34:23,316 --> 00:34:27,196 Speaker 1: this exploded, deconstructed version of Hank Williams. I can't help 589 00:34:27,236 --> 00:34:28,876 Speaker 1: it if I'm still in love with you. And it 590 00:34:28,956 --> 00:34:32,276 Speaker 1: took me months months of asking people, do you know 591 00:34:32,476 --> 00:34:34,476 Speaker 1: I heard this song? You didn't know. I don't know 592 00:34:34,516 --> 00:34:36,636 Speaker 1: what you're talking about, and they would give me these 593 00:34:36,996 --> 00:34:39,396 Speaker 1: stupid ideas of who it could have been. No, no, no, no, no, 594 00:34:39,556 --> 00:34:42,956 Speaker 1: you don't know what I'm saying. This crazy thing, it's 595 00:34:43,076 --> 00:34:46,156 Speaker 1: you know. And months yeah, yeah, and now it is 596 00:34:46,156 --> 00:34:48,996 Speaker 1: a little easier. We'll be back after a quick break 597 00:34:49,196 --> 00:34:56,436 Speaker 1: with Will Oldham and Matt Sweeney. We're back with the 598 00:34:56,516 --> 00:35:00,156 Speaker 1: rest of Rick Rubin's conversation with will Oldham and Matt Sweeney. 599 00:35:00,636 --> 00:35:02,676 Speaker 1: But before we jump back in, let's hear some of 600 00:35:02,756 --> 00:35:15,836 Speaker 1: their new song, My Popsicle. We crawled towards a warmth 601 00:35:16,076 --> 00:35:26,516 Speaker 1: less night, towards a wild and endless night. My pop 602 00:35:28,276 --> 00:35:40,036 Speaker 1: my pops circles, My pups circles, My pops circles made 603 00:35:40,276 --> 00:35:52,876 Speaker 1: by your mind and me. Time Square Once wears dark 604 00:35:53,236 --> 00:36:03,516 Speaker 1: and wild and frightening to a guileless child. My Pop, 605 00:36:05,316 --> 00:36:29,316 Speaker 1: my pops, sacles, maybe you and Wow. The music you 606 00:36:29,476 --> 00:36:32,716 Speaker 1: guys make is I could literally listen to it forever. 607 00:36:33,036 --> 00:36:38,396 Speaker 1: It's unbelievable. It's like it I might like listening to 608 00:36:38,516 --> 00:36:41,316 Speaker 1: your music more than any other music. So it really 609 00:36:41,436 --> 00:36:45,396 Speaker 1: is ridiculous. How it. I feel like I'm the audience 610 00:36:45,476 --> 00:36:49,876 Speaker 1: you're making it for me. It's it is ridiculous. It's 611 00:36:50,356 --> 00:36:54,396 Speaker 1: I mean, it's ridiculous. But I think I think that 612 00:36:54,556 --> 00:36:57,516 Speaker 1: some of that is you know, when we were when 613 00:36:57,556 --> 00:37:00,796 Speaker 1: we had this sequenced and then mastered, my brother Paul 614 00:37:00,916 --> 00:37:04,796 Speaker 1: mastered it, and my wife and I, you know, one evening, 615 00:37:05,356 --> 00:37:07,796 Speaker 1: we're ready to listen to the master and listen to 616 00:37:07,916 --> 00:37:12,676 Speaker 1: it all the way through and throughout the record. I 617 00:37:12,916 --> 00:37:16,476 Speaker 1: was listening to it. I was crying sometimes, and I 618 00:37:16,636 --> 00:37:20,356 Speaker 1: was laughing a whole lot, and you know, my wife asked, 619 00:37:20,356 --> 00:37:22,036 Speaker 1: you know, She's like, why are you laughing? And it's 620 00:37:22,076 --> 00:37:27,476 Speaker 1: hard to fully explain, but part of it is gratitude 621 00:37:27,756 --> 00:37:31,596 Speaker 1: for the way that it came together, Because it ended 622 00:37:31,676 --> 00:37:33,956 Speaker 1: up coming together in such way that it is a 623 00:37:35,076 --> 00:37:39,636 Speaker 1: the things that records have done for me is not 624 00:37:39,836 --> 00:37:43,396 Speaker 1: something that's easy to find. I just it felt good 625 00:37:43,436 --> 00:37:46,396 Speaker 1: to yeah, to have participated in making a record that 626 00:37:46,476 --> 00:37:51,476 Speaker 1: has this kind of content, musical and lyrical content, and 627 00:37:52,516 --> 00:37:58,916 Speaker 1: that it's worth sitting with it song after song, and 628 00:37:59,276 --> 00:38:01,236 Speaker 1: I think I kept laughing because I would remember where 629 00:38:01,276 --> 00:38:03,836 Speaker 1: I was in the record and think, oh, this part 630 00:38:03,916 --> 00:38:06,756 Speaker 1: still hasn't happened, and I feel like this, and this 631 00:38:06,916 --> 00:38:08,676 Speaker 1: part is still going to happen, and I feel like this. 632 00:38:09,716 --> 00:38:13,676 Speaker 1: It's been a long time since I've been carried away 633 00:38:15,556 --> 00:38:20,116 Speaker 1: by a new record. I guess it's funny in this year, 634 00:38:20,316 --> 00:38:24,236 Speaker 1: this crazy year where everyone's perception is so so so different, 635 00:38:24,276 --> 00:38:27,276 Speaker 1: but but just feeling like, wow, it's not a bad 636 00:38:27,356 --> 00:38:30,716 Speaker 1: record to you know, if if the plague takes us, 637 00:38:30,796 --> 00:38:34,116 Speaker 1: you know, I feel okay about this being the record 638 00:38:34,196 --> 00:38:37,756 Speaker 1: that we ended things with. It's really a beauty. It's 639 00:38:37,756 --> 00:38:43,156 Speaker 1: a beauty that correct anything different in the process between 640 00:38:43,276 --> 00:38:47,356 Speaker 1: making this album and the first album sixteen years ago. Yeah, 641 00:38:47,756 --> 00:38:50,756 Speaker 1: we had a Ti Egg band. I'm the super Bowl record. 642 00:38:50,876 --> 00:38:55,716 Speaker 1: The only outside musician is Pete right, Yeah, Pete talent 643 00:38:55,836 --> 00:38:58,316 Speaker 1: and the drummer, you know, So it was that it 644 00:38:58,356 --> 00:39:00,956 Speaker 1: was insular and then with this one, which is pretty 645 00:39:00,996 --> 00:39:04,036 Speaker 1: interesting that the way that this record got kick started 646 00:39:04,196 --> 00:39:07,596 Speaker 1: was when I had done a recording session with m 647 00:39:07,636 --> 00:39:10,196 Speaker 1: du Moktar, who rick if you checked him out yet? 648 00:39:11,236 --> 00:39:14,276 Speaker 1: Oh mind, Yeah, you're going to lose your mind. Okay. 649 00:39:14,356 --> 00:39:17,196 Speaker 1: So Mr Martar is a try I got like, like 650 00:39:17,356 --> 00:39:21,996 Speaker 1: to New Orleans. He's from Yeah, he's from Hierias, from 651 00:39:21,996 --> 00:39:25,636 Speaker 1: the desert, and he's an explosive, mind blowing musician. And 652 00:39:26,556 --> 00:39:29,956 Speaker 1: we got a chance to use him and his band 653 00:39:30,316 --> 00:39:32,356 Speaker 1: on a song that Will and I had already written. 654 00:39:32,436 --> 00:39:34,836 Speaker 1: And the song was actually had a lot of parts, 655 00:39:34,876 --> 00:39:36,836 Speaker 1: a lot of this and that to it, and these 656 00:39:36,876 --> 00:39:39,356 Speaker 1: dogs nailed it, which is pretty wild because they're not 657 00:39:39,516 --> 00:39:42,596 Speaker 1: like trained musicians they and they play a very specific style. 658 00:39:43,676 --> 00:39:47,636 Speaker 1: But because we had such an incredible connection with these guys, 659 00:39:47,876 --> 00:39:51,916 Speaker 1: and particularly like that they seem to actually bob, I mean, 660 00:39:51,956 --> 00:39:55,036 Speaker 1: they clearly vibed with how Will sang and how I 661 00:39:55,076 --> 00:39:59,836 Speaker 1: played guitar, like we meshed and that was exciting and 662 00:39:59,956 --> 00:40:02,916 Speaker 1: definitely exciting enough for because Will and I have had 663 00:40:02,956 --> 00:40:06,556 Speaker 1: already been exchanged writing songs with the idea of recording, 664 00:40:06,636 --> 00:40:08,716 Speaker 1: but this was enough for Will to be like, well, 665 00:40:08,756 --> 00:40:11,356 Speaker 1: I guess we should probably use them as a band, 666 00:40:11,676 --> 00:40:14,836 Speaker 1: you know, you know, try writing like maybe that should be. 667 00:40:14,996 --> 00:40:16,836 Speaker 1: That was the way we started the Super Bowl procort, 668 00:40:16,916 --> 00:40:19,956 Speaker 1: just like, use this mind blowing band and see what happens. 669 00:40:20,196 --> 00:40:22,356 Speaker 1: And so we did. Yeah, we had, we had, we had. 670 00:40:22,436 --> 00:40:24,836 Speaker 1: We had a fantastic recording session with them on another 671 00:40:24,956 --> 00:40:28,156 Speaker 1: unrelated song, and or everybody, everybody at the end of 672 00:40:28,196 --> 00:40:29,876 Speaker 1: the day, you know, it's one of those days in 673 00:40:29,916 --> 00:40:32,116 Speaker 1: the recording studio where everybody's glowing at the end of 674 00:40:32,156 --> 00:40:34,596 Speaker 1: the day and you just think, we'd like to do 675 00:40:34,676 --> 00:40:36,916 Speaker 1: this again. Sometimes Oh yeah, we would too, Let's do 676 00:40:36,996 --> 00:40:38,276 Speaker 1: it again, you know. So it was just up to 677 00:40:38,356 --> 00:40:40,076 Speaker 1: when when they were going to come back to the 678 00:40:40,316 --> 00:40:42,636 Speaker 1: United States of America, and when they did, you know, 679 00:40:42,876 --> 00:40:44,956 Speaker 1: we said, well, if you've got a few extra days 680 00:40:44,956 --> 00:40:46,356 Speaker 1: in New York, can we book a session and we'll 681 00:40:46,396 --> 00:40:48,516 Speaker 1: go back in and do more. And then so we 682 00:40:48,596 --> 00:40:49,756 Speaker 1: knew we had to get We knew I had to 683 00:40:49,756 --> 00:40:52,916 Speaker 1: get our act together by then. Yeah. Yeah. And the 684 00:40:53,236 --> 00:40:57,036 Speaker 1: song that we recorded in that session one was a 685 00:40:57,076 --> 00:40:59,556 Speaker 1: competition that came together with all of us in a room, 686 00:40:59,876 --> 00:41:03,556 Speaker 1: which is also like very very very different than everything else, um, 687 00:41:04,556 --> 00:41:07,556 Speaker 1: which is everything. Yeah, every so, yeah, every every Like 688 00:41:07,636 --> 00:41:10,156 Speaker 1: the night before the session, you know, the afternoon before 689 00:41:10,156 --> 00:41:12,316 Speaker 1: the session, the song didn't exist in any way, shape 690 00:41:12,396 --> 00:41:14,436 Speaker 1: or form. And then that that night we all got 691 00:41:14,436 --> 00:41:17,236 Speaker 1: together in an apartment and everything, all of the music, 692 00:41:17,316 --> 00:41:19,956 Speaker 1: all the lyrics, all the melodies, everything came together that night. 693 00:41:19,996 --> 00:41:21,636 Speaker 1: And then we attracted them. And as far as like 694 00:41:21,676 --> 00:41:26,556 Speaker 1: the power of like music connecting. Uh just they where 695 00:41:26,596 --> 00:41:28,756 Speaker 1: the town that they live in is a twenty eight 696 00:41:28,876 --> 00:41:33,716 Speaker 1: hour bus ride to the nearest airport, okay, like so 697 00:41:33,956 --> 00:41:36,436 Speaker 1: like these guys are from a different place, you know, 698 00:41:36,996 --> 00:41:40,876 Speaker 1: so so you know the connection it felt good, you know, 699 00:41:41,076 --> 00:41:45,316 Speaker 1: and and uh so we came over the song together. 700 00:41:45,356 --> 00:41:48,076 Speaker 1: And then we also got to use them on songs 701 00:41:48,116 --> 00:41:52,356 Speaker 1: that we'd written before. Um and and we were pretty 702 00:41:52,436 --> 00:41:55,396 Speaker 1: conscrientious about what we were what what the other songs were, 703 00:41:55,636 --> 00:41:59,356 Speaker 1: you know, like sort of taking advantage of using these musicians. 704 00:41:59,556 --> 00:42:03,436 Speaker 1: For example, the song I'm a Youth, which is an 705 00:42:03,476 --> 00:42:08,116 Speaker 1: Irish traditional traditional Irish song. Well again addressing the differences 706 00:42:08,196 --> 00:42:11,636 Speaker 1: between the yeah, MD's on that the first record we 707 00:42:11,716 --> 00:42:15,476 Speaker 1: did it, you know, we spent probably up to a 708 00:42:15,596 --> 00:42:17,916 Speaker 1: year putting the songs together. Then we went in and 709 00:42:18,036 --> 00:42:21,236 Speaker 1: for a week tracked and mixed in Shelbyville, Kentucky. One 710 00:42:21,316 --> 00:42:24,156 Speaker 1: session the two of us, my brother Paul engineering, our 711 00:42:24,156 --> 00:42:27,396 Speaker 1: friend Pete playing drums. This time. You know, we wrote 712 00:42:27,436 --> 00:42:30,676 Speaker 1: over the course of five years and did it in 713 00:42:30,756 --> 00:42:33,516 Speaker 1: two sessions, one in New York and then the other 714 00:42:33,636 --> 00:42:37,676 Speaker 1: in Nashville with ferg and then the mdu Maktar ensemble 715 00:42:37,756 --> 00:42:40,396 Speaker 1: playing on the New York thing. So those are the 716 00:42:40,556 --> 00:42:43,956 Speaker 1: significant differences in how the record itself was the two 717 00:42:43,996 --> 00:42:46,796 Speaker 1: records were made. So check out Holiday. I mean as 718 00:42:46,836 --> 00:42:49,636 Speaker 1: far as like, just as an example, this is what 719 00:42:49,756 --> 00:42:52,716 Speaker 1: happened when we got together with these gentlemen from from 720 00:42:52,756 --> 00:43:17,676 Speaker 1: a very different place. Yeah, tip and then drive you 721 00:43:18,276 --> 00:43:31,996 Speaker 1: Go and gry y'all, drill muss even a death again, 722 00:43:32,796 --> 00:43:48,876 Speaker 1: all of death. You know. We put this song out 723 00:43:48,956 --> 00:43:51,516 Speaker 1: as a single couple few weeks ago, right and and 724 00:43:52,316 --> 00:43:54,236 Speaker 1: people have talked about it, and there's been a positive 725 00:43:54,276 --> 00:43:58,436 Speaker 1: response to it, right um, there has been. As far 726 00:43:58,556 --> 00:44:02,796 Speaker 1: as anything that I've heard from anybody, I haven't heard 727 00:44:03,316 --> 00:44:06,476 Speaker 1: word one mentioning the fact that there are lyrics to 728 00:44:06,556 --> 00:44:09,276 Speaker 1: the song, much less what the lyrics are. You know, 729 00:44:09,356 --> 00:44:11,996 Speaker 1: in general, it's interesting that people don't really listen to lyrics. 730 00:44:12,436 --> 00:44:14,156 Speaker 1: You know, most people will say, I don't even listen 731 00:44:14,156 --> 00:44:15,996 Speaker 1: to the lyrics, you know. That's that's what streaming, the 732 00:44:16,076 --> 00:44:18,396 Speaker 1: streaming model is built around, is the people not listening 733 00:44:18,436 --> 00:44:21,316 Speaker 1: to lyrics. Like when we made the song in the 734 00:44:21,396 --> 00:44:23,516 Speaker 1: recording studio, we made the song which we tracked it 735 00:44:23,636 --> 00:44:27,316 Speaker 1: all live except for the lead guitar, and that was 736 00:44:27,476 --> 00:44:30,916 Speaker 1: that's him Do's guitar. And for some reason, I can't 737 00:44:30,916 --> 00:44:33,116 Speaker 1: remember if he was I think he maybe he had 738 00:44:33,356 --> 00:44:35,396 Speaker 1: he had a friend of his like died in an 739 00:44:35,756 --> 00:44:38,356 Speaker 1: automobile accident in Africas. He was on the phone and 740 00:44:39,436 --> 00:44:42,956 Speaker 1: you know, he was so overwhelmed with grief he couldn't 741 00:44:42,956 --> 00:44:45,156 Speaker 1: play with us. So we played. And then I think 742 00:44:45,196 --> 00:44:48,156 Speaker 1: two days later we like, you know, would you play 743 00:44:48,236 --> 00:44:51,076 Speaker 1: on this song? And and he's sitting there to go 744 00:44:51,196 --> 00:44:54,236 Speaker 1: into play, and uh, we're all sitting there. I'm sitting 745 00:44:54,236 --> 00:44:56,436 Speaker 1: on the floor at his feet, and Matt says, well, 746 00:44:56,596 --> 00:44:58,836 Speaker 1: you know, to help him him do why don't you 747 00:44:59,076 --> 00:45:01,356 Speaker 1: will want you explain you know, what the song is about. 748 00:45:02,236 --> 00:45:07,716 Speaker 1: And I'm taken aback because you know, I didn't have this. 749 00:45:07,916 --> 00:45:11,916 Speaker 1: I wrote the lyrics on three days before and so 750 00:45:12,116 --> 00:45:15,156 Speaker 1: I didn't filter anything, you know, and and it's essentially 751 00:45:15,276 --> 00:45:21,356 Speaker 1: just about the horror and desperation of years of having 752 00:45:21,796 --> 00:45:24,996 Speaker 1: of my mom living in you know, being in communicado 753 00:45:26,236 --> 00:45:28,676 Speaker 1: because of Alzheimer's disease and living in a nursing home 754 00:45:28,756 --> 00:45:32,636 Speaker 1: and what it's like to go to her, you know, 755 00:45:32,716 --> 00:45:36,836 Speaker 1: on on an extremely regular basis. And so okay, I'll 756 00:45:36,916 --> 00:45:39,636 Speaker 1: fucking explain these lyrics. I'm not sure if it's going 757 00:45:39,676 --> 00:45:41,476 Speaker 1: to help his guitar playing or not. We'll see, you know, 758 00:45:41,596 --> 00:45:44,756 Speaker 1: with this song, because in the past, Steam will like 759 00:45:44,836 --> 00:45:47,636 Speaker 1: be like, hey, the song, so go like that, you know, 760 00:45:47,796 --> 00:45:50,436 Speaker 1: like like I've seen I've seen you given that direction 761 00:45:50,716 --> 00:45:52,276 Speaker 1: or I had seen to go to that direction before. 762 00:45:52,316 --> 00:45:54,556 Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm thinking. And also I'm kind 763 00:45:54,556 --> 00:45:56,796 Speaker 1: of curious because all I know, I think I knew 764 00:45:57,796 --> 00:45:59,996 Speaker 1: I don't know if I really heard could hear any 765 00:46:00,036 --> 00:46:02,236 Speaker 1: of the things, any of the actual words. I could 766 00:46:02,236 --> 00:46:05,116 Speaker 1: hear the melody that he was singing, but everything was 767 00:46:05,156 --> 00:46:07,636 Speaker 1: why we we we recorded the song live. The vocal 768 00:46:07,716 --> 00:46:09,436 Speaker 1: is live in a really loud room, you know, so 769 00:46:09,716 --> 00:46:12,236 Speaker 1: so I did not know what the words were, so 770 00:46:12,396 --> 00:46:15,436 Speaker 1: I figured, you know, and you know, how how is 771 00:46:15,596 --> 00:46:17,556 Speaker 1: m do gonna know what the words are anyway. So 772 00:46:18,756 --> 00:46:22,676 Speaker 1: then Will says what the words are about, and it's shocking, 773 00:46:23,036 --> 00:46:26,396 Speaker 1: you know, And and it spurs a conversation then because 774 00:46:26,756 --> 00:46:30,756 Speaker 1: MD begins to go into a tirade about how shitty 775 00:46:31,116 --> 00:46:34,636 Speaker 1: Americans are to their elders. And you know, I have 776 00:46:34,756 --> 00:46:38,916 Speaker 1: a similar sense, you know, like the horror of visiting 777 00:46:38,996 --> 00:46:40,356 Speaker 1: my mom. You know, a huge part of the horror 778 00:46:40,396 --> 00:46:42,476 Speaker 1: of visiting my mom in this place is thinking, like, 779 00:46:42,876 --> 00:46:46,316 Speaker 1: what brought circumstances, you know, what what brought this circumstance 780 00:46:46,356 --> 00:46:50,036 Speaker 1: to happen that my mother that I am a responsible 781 00:46:50,116 --> 00:46:54,516 Speaker 1: human being, a functioning, fucking responsible human being, and and 782 00:46:54,636 --> 00:46:56,236 Speaker 1: I don't have it, you know, I can't live a 783 00:46:56,276 --> 00:46:58,396 Speaker 1: life and also take care of take care of her, 784 00:46:58,836 --> 00:47:00,796 Speaker 1: and there's not a support system to take care of 785 00:47:00,876 --> 00:47:02,356 Speaker 1: her so that she can stay at home, you know. 786 00:47:02,516 --> 00:47:05,596 Speaker 1: But but he's you know, basically like hammering everything that 787 00:47:05,636 --> 00:47:08,076 Speaker 1: I felt shitty about in my life for the past 788 00:47:08,196 --> 00:47:11,356 Speaker 1: five years and just saying you, you know, you suck, 789 00:47:11,556 --> 00:47:13,836 Speaker 1: you fucking suck, because this is who you are. You know, 790 00:47:13,956 --> 00:47:16,156 Speaker 1: That's what I'm hearing, you know, yeah, you know. And 791 00:47:16,236 --> 00:47:18,516 Speaker 1: then and then I eventually like have to leave. I'm 792 00:47:18,596 --> 00:47:21,316 Speaker 1: so upset I have to leave, and and this the 793 00:47:21,476 --> 00:47:23,596 Speaker 1: session kind of falls apart that week, I don't sleep 794 00:47:23,636 --> 00:47:27,236 Speaker 1: for days. Anyway. I hear it as like one of 795 00:47:27,276 --> 00:47:30,436 Speaker 1: the strengths I think of my working with with Matt 796 00:47:30,596 --> 00:47:33,676 Speaker 1: is that he allows for a greater amount of vulnerability 797 00:47:34,076 --> 00:47:36,196 Speaker 1: in the in the lyric and then also in the 798 00:47:36,356 --> 00:47:39,036 Speaker 1: in the in the singing, and I hear nothing but 799 00:47:40,476 --> 00:47:45,196 Speaker 1: this horrific vulnerable vulnerability in that song. And so and 800 00:47:45,476 --> 00:47:48,436 Speaker 1: it's also, you know, I hear the electricity of the 801 00:47:48,476 --> 00:47:53,196 Speaker 1: excitement of our collaboration with the ensemble from niger Um. 802 00:47:53,396 --> 00:47:58,436 Speaker 1: But it it sits for me beautifully in the record 803 00:47:58,556 --> 00:48:01,316 Speaker 1: because I have, you know, because it's it's you know, 804 00:48:01,396 --> 00:48:04,396 Speaker 1: people people say like, oh, it's this propulsive rock song 805 00:48:04,396 --> 00:48:06,836 Speaker 1: blah blah blah, and I'm like, Okay, to me, it's this, 806 00:48:07,116 --> 00:48:12,276 Speaker 1: you know, really hard song about how we what do 807 00:48:12,356 --> 00:48:14,156 Speaker 1: you do about the fact that you know the you 808 00:48:14,316 --> 00:48:20,396 Speaker 1: are of the guilty mistreating children in these death institutions, 809 00:48:20,516 --> 00:48:23,436 Speaker 1: you know, these institutions that are built around, you know, 810 00:48:23,596 --> 00:48:28,316 Speaker 1: allowing people to die ignored. Hey Jam, Yeah, yeah, yeah, 811 00:48:29,396 --> 00:48:32,996 Speaker 1: hey Jam. Anything else, you guys feel like we should 812 00:48:33,036 --> 00:48:37,996 Speaker 1: talk about anything that would be helpful or interesting. We 813 00:48:38,116 --> 00:48:40,196 Speaker 1: do good. You're really good at this, Rick, Thank you 814 00:48:40,276 --> 00:48:43,396 Speaker 1: so much for doing this, Thanks for having it. Thank you. 815 00:48:48,196 --> 00:48:50,516 Speaker 1: Thanks to Matt Sweeney and Will Oldam for talking about 816 00:48:50,556 --> 00:48:54,636 Speaker 1: their creative collaboration with rad To hear super Wolves along 817 00:48:54,676 --> 00:48:57,556 Speaker 1: with our favorite Bonnie Prince Billy songs, head to Broken 818 00:48:57,636 --> 00:49:00,676 Speaker 1: Record podcast dot com. Be sure to subscribe to our 819 00:49:00,716 --> 00:49:04,036 Speaker 1: YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash Broken Record Podcast, 820 00:49:04,276 --> 00:49:06,916 Speaker 1: where we can find new and old episodes. You can 821 00:49:06,956 --> 00:49:10,036 Speaker 1: follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken Record is 822 00:49:10,036 --> 00:49:13,916 Speaker 1: producer of help from Leo Rose, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, 823 00:49:14,316 --> 00:49:18,956 Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chafee. 824 00:49:19,036 --> 00:49:22,676 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Meal of the Broken Record is 825 00:49:22,676 --> 00:49:25,196 Speaker 1: a production of Pushkin Industries and if you'd like to 826 00:49:25,236 --> 00:49:27,716 Speaker 1: show please remember to share, rate, and review us on 827 00:49:27,876 --> 00:49:31,596 Speaker 1: your podcast. Act of the music. Expect any beats. I'm 828 00:49:31,676 --> 00:49:32,996 Speaker 1: justin Richmond bass