WEBVTT - 313: No Sun On The Horizon w/ Dan Bucatinsky 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.880 Unpacking the Toolbox is a production of Shondaland Audio in 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:04.240 partnership with iHeartRadio. 0:00:20.079 --> 0:00:26.200 The scans shown as it. 0:00:26.360 --> 0:00:34.960 Katie those, we have an incredible episode for you today. 0:00:35.520 --> 0:00:39.880 Not only will we be graced by the Danny Bukatinski 0:00:40.000 --> 0:00:42.200 or as I call him, Danny Buka as we break 0:00:42.240 --> 0:00:45.479 down this episode, but later on we get a little 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:48.360 bit more info from Scott Foley about what it was 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:51.919 like to be command or when he actually became command. 0:00:52.000 --> 0:00:55.880 In this episode, we have to talk about James from 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.280 beginning middle end, we have to talk about the brilliant 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.880 Danny Bukatin grace us with his presence today. We're so lucky. 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.320 We have been waiting to have you on this podcast. Yes, 0:01:05.360 --> 0:01:08.520 I do waiting, cherishing, waiting. But then also everyone needs 0:01:08.520 --> 0:01:12.000 to know that Danny Buca and I share the same birthday. 0:01:12.880 --> 0:01:16.520 You guys do every year, No wonder, you're both nuts, 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:17.600 it's every year. 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:22.039 We're both nuts. We're both nuts, but we like connected 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.920 over our birthday, like on day one and now every year, 0:01:26.880 --> 0:01:27.800 you know, we hang out. 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:33.080 It's why we are perfect, glorious, special, smart, stunning inside 0:01:33.120 --> 0:01:36.760 and out, very sexually advanced. 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:40.080 Now yeah, yeah, I get that a lot. I get 0:01:40.080 --> 0:01:40.639 that a lot. 0:01:40.800 --> 0:01:45.040 Okay, I'm bringing us in. Why how did you get James? 0:01:45.440 --> 0:01:47.920 Where were you in your life? How did you get 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:51.360 it to Shaun Land? Also, you auditioned for huck. 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.080 Well you just did? You just answer my question? No? 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:57.320 But weren't you writing in Grays. 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.640 No, I wasn't quite writing a graze yet. I had 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:05.000 done episode of Grey's Anatomy a season earlier and Shonda 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:07.560 wasn't around, and I didn't meet her for that, but 0:02:07.640 --> 0:02:12.760 I remember that Linda Lowie, the casting director, sent a 0:02:12.800 --> 0:02:17.200 scene I had done in Curby Your Enthusiasm to Shonda 0:02:17.400 --> 0:02:20.399 and she approved me to get the offer on Grey's Anatomy. 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:23.280 Then I did Grey's Anatomy, and right around that time, 0:02:23.600 --> 0:02:26.200 my book came out. Does This Baby Make Me Look Straight? 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:30.000 It's such a great book for anyone. It's brilliant. Does 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:32.320 this Baby make Me Look straight? It's brilliant. 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.600 No, it does not, is the answer. 0:02:35.160 --> 0:02:37.040 It does not make me look straight. I mean there's 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.240 you know, that would be a stunt. There's a lot 0:02:39.320 --> 0:02:41.600 that would need to I mean, there's there'd be a 0:02:41.600 --> 0:02:45.079 lot more work than just the baby, and I've had 0:02:45.080 --> 0:02:47.880 two of them. But you know, The book chronicles my 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.680 whole like journey into parenthood with my husband and adoption, 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:55.720 and in the book, I this is going somewhere, I promise. 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:59.160 In the book, I talk about the inspiration I got 0:02:59.160 --> 0:03:03.360 from Dan savage book The Kid, and Shonda's inspiration for 0:03:03.440 --> 0:03:06.240 her adoption of her kids was also Dan Savage as 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:08.720 The Kid. So we wound up. I don't know how 0:03:08.760 --> 0:03:11.040 it happened, but one way or another, I wound up 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.600 sending Shonda my book. She wound up blurbing on my 0:03:14.639 --> 0:03:17.640 book before it came out, and we sort of connected 0:03:17.760 --> 0:03:22.680 over the way we became parents. Around that time, I 0:03:22.720 --> 0:03:27.120 then came into I went into a casting session to 0:03:27.280 --> 0:03:31.360 read for Huck and the monologue I will never forget it. 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:32.840 I don't know, Giermo if you remember it, but the 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:37.200 audition monologue was so beautifully written. It was a perfect 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:41.600 example of how quickly an actor could learn it. Yeah 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:45.040 if if it's written well, Like how hard it is 0:03:45.080 --> 0:03:47.480 to learn lines when something is like I don't see 0:03:47.480 --> 0:03:49.400 how this connects to this, but this was like a 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:52.960 beautiful piece of writing and one hundred percent not me. 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.800 But I was like, I love this. I'm gonna I'm 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:58.720 gonna read it anyway. So I went in there and 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:01.800 I was like, guys, I get it. This is one 0:04:01.880 --> 0:04:04.840 hundred percent not me, but maybe it is me. Maybe 0:04:04.840 --> 0:04:07.480 it'll maybe maybe you'll change the way you think about Huck. 0:04:07.520 --> 0:04:09.400 But this is a beautiful piece of writing. So I 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.480 did the monologue and they were like, you're right, it's 0:04:12.520 --> 0:04:15.520 not you. Who was in the room, Betsy, Shanda, Linda 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.160 was in the room for somebody meeting with. 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:20.360 Me too. 0:04:20.839 --> 0:04:23.360 Yeah, And then I came back to read for a 0:04:23.400 --> 0:04:26.320 recurring role as David Rosen. 0:04:26.440 --> 0:04:30.039 Oh wow, I bet you killed that. 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:31.280 I could see you playing. 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.480 I could have played, thank you. I could have played 0:04:35.520 --> 0:04:39.159 David Rosen. I mean we, Josh and I even look alike. 0:04:39.920 --> 0:04:40.280 You don't. 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.240 You're so much hotter. And that was on purpose for 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:43.760 you to hear that. 0:04:43.880 --> 0:04:44.159 Josh. 0:04:44.240 --> 0:04:48.920 Keep going, yeah, Josh, you've said it yourself, Josh, So 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:51.839 we're not saying anything that you haven't said yourself. But 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:54.160 I saw Josh, and I've known Josh for a very 0:04:54.200 --> 0:04:56.080 long time, and we saw each other at the audition, 0:04:56.160 --> 0:04:58.520 and I went in for that one, and I think 0:04:58.600 --> 0:05:02.480 even in the room, Shanda said, I'm going to write 0:05:02.560 --> 0:05:05.520 something else for you, And I left and I was like, 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.880 you know, if I had a nickel, I didn't quite you. 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.560 Know, it was very nice as you're so beating down. 0:05:11.560 --> 0:05:14.880 It's like until I'm on set right and even still 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:15.560 and I see it. 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:16.760 Even believe it. 0:05:16.920 --> 0:05:17.320 Yeah. 0:05:17.480 --> 0:05:19.760 Correct, You're on set and you're like, they're gonna fire. 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:20.760 Me any and it's getting come. 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:23.760 You shoot it and then they call saying like you're 0:05:23.760 --> 0:05:26.040 being recast in there reshooting. They don't care how much 0:05:26.080 --> 0:05:29.479 money it costs. They can't allow what you just did 0:05:29.800 --> 0:05:30.839 to appear on television. 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:33.400 They cut. Sometimes they cut the scene and you're like, 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:36.880 my whole family, I'm on a show and I'm cut. 0:05:37.000 --> 0:05:38.400 Is that? 0:05:38.400 --> 0:05:40.599 That was my first job ever that happened to me 0:05:41.080 --> 0:05:43.560 and I my whole town, including my ex boyfriend who 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:45.960 hurt my heart and I and then I got through it. 0:05:46.000 --> 0:05:47.360 I was like, oh my god, I wasn't in it, 0:05:47.400 --> 0:05:49.359 and I've never been so mortified in my life and 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:49.960 never learned. 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.839 But sand Sean, so Shonda thought, I love this, homo. 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:58.960 I'm going to write a big old gay roll for him. 0:05:59.360 --> 0:06:00.800 You know, I didn't hear that part of it, but 0:06:00.880 --> 0:06:04.960 clearly you speak Sean. That was going on that head 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:09.440 easily I love this homo. He wrote this book about adoption. 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:13.520 I mean, listen, not for nothing. To some degree the 0:06:13.640 --> 0:06:16.880 creation of who James was going to be and who 0:06:16.960 --> 0:06:19.680 he wound up as this writer who wants to adopt 0:06:19.680 --> 0:06:22.320 a baby, Like a lot of me, I think went 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.280 into who James became. But I had no idea that 0:06:25.279 --> 0:06:27.440 that was coming down the pike. And in fact, I 0:06:27.560 --> 0:06:29.560 was at my office. You know, I had a production 0:06:29.600 --> 0:06:32.120 company with Lisa Kudron for fifteen years. We were like 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:34.360 in this office, back and forth, and there was one 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:36.400 day we were taking all these meetings and I get 0:06:36.400 --> 0:06:40.840 a text on my phone from Linda Lowe saying will 0:06:40.880 --> 0:06:45.520 you play my husband's husband? And I was like, and 0:06:45.560 --> 0:06:47.800 I was like, is that some kind of party game? 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:50.840 Like what what does that even mean? Will you play 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:53.839 my husband's husband? I knew I know Jeff, and I 0:06:53.920 --> 0:06:56.800 knew Linda and Don and I had been in Mexico 0:06:56.839 --> 0:06:58.800 with them when our daughter was a year old, Like 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:02.240 we knew each other, but will you play my husband's husband? 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.000 And I was like, I don't know what that means, 0:07:04.040 --> 0:07:07.960 but sure? And so I got offered this part of 0:07:08.040 --> 0:07:11.640 James and I did this episode that I found it 0:07:11.680 --> 0:07:14.960 was in season one, and I found it so and 0:07:15.000 --> 0:07:18.640 I talk about this all the time, talk about subversive 0:07:18.920 --> 0:07:24.440 television making What made Scandal so unbelievably innovative in the time. 0:07:24.520 --> 0:07:27.480 At the time that had happened was that Olivia Pope 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.480 knocks on the front door of Cyrus Bean's house, which 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.720 we've never seen before, and James opens the door and says, really, 0:07:35.720 --> 0:07:39.200 Olivia on a Sunday, you know, the like, like the 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.400 audience has to catch up to the fact that existed 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:45.280 way before they started watching this show, that this man 0:07:45.360 --> 0:07:47.840 lives with this man and they're a couple and they're married, 0:07:47.880 --> 0:07:48.960 and Olivia knows it, and. 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:52.840 He is President's chief of staff and a Republican presidency 0:07:53.320 --> 0:07:55.840 and this guy is in no way shape form what 0:07:55.880 --> 0:07:58.880 you would have ever thought of, like, oh yeah. 0:07:58.760 --> 0:08:01.720 Jeff Perry, Harry gets offered that part and is never 0:08:01.760 --> 0:08:03.360 told that this is going to be a gay character. 0:08:03.400 --> 0:08:05.080 There's never told that you're going to have a husband. 0:08:05.160 --> 0:08:07.760 Le's he's just as shocked as all of us. But 0:08:07.880 --> 0:08:10.520 the fact that there was no coming out episode, the 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:14.000 fact that it wasn't about telling Tony telling Fits one 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.600 day that he is gay, like all of it is 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.640 a fact, a matter of fact that the audience just 0:08:19.680 --> 0:08:22.760 has to catch up is the way it should be. 0:08:22.800 --> 0:08:25.880 And it was so exciting and so that was just 0:08:25.920 --> 0:08:27.920 a thrill, and I thought I would just do that 0:08:28.000 --> 0:08:30.240 one episode and it would be what it would be. 0:08:30.280 --> 0:08:32.000 And I wound up doing you have to Kiss Jeff 0:08:32.000 --> 0:08:33.320 in that episode. I'm trying to remember. 0:08:33.520 --> 0:08:36.360 No, no, I just said, baby, I want a baby, 0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.440 a fat one. That's why I said to him, I 0:08:38.480 --> 0:08:40.800 want a baby, a big, fat one. So knock it 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:42.720 off with all the whatever you're doing. 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:46.559 Oh my god, you know we have to talk about like, Okay, 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:49.040 so you get it offered, but it's kind of like 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:53.000 an offer that you've auditioned for so many times in 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.120 a way, right, because you had read two other parts 0:08:56.160 --> 0:09:00.160 and she already knew you personally, she read your book, and. 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:03.120 I was playing somebody not far from who I am, right. 0:09:03.080 --> 0:09:06.080 Okay, so that's your first episode. Now tell me about 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.000 because we've almost had you on for this episode, but 0:09:09.720 --> 0:09:11.880 we were saving you for now. But you are a 0:09:11.960 --> 0:09:15.280 part of one of my favorite all time scandal scenes ever, 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:17.840 which I think you must have been so shocked to 0:09:17.920 --> 0:09:19.880 know what James was going to turn into. But that 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:23.040 one act play of you and Jeff Perry taking off 0:09:23.120 --> 0:09:25.520 both of your clothes and being ass naked to make 0:09:25.559 --> 0:09:28.400 sure that you're not miked when he admits to you, 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:32.520 I stole the election because you know something's up. I 0:09:32.559 --> 0:09:35.000 mean that what I think it's one of the best. 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:37.920 I think it's one of the best television scenes in 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:39.280 his I mean it's like a fucking play. 0:09:39.640 --> 0:09:42.920 It's it was a mini in the app Yeah. 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:44.439 And it's in season It was amazing. 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:45.480 Is it in two? Oh? 0:09:45.480 --> 0:09:46.240 It's in season two? 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:47.040 In season two? 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:50.520 So when do you start to realize the role that 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:55.600 James is becoming and the amount of like unbelievable gift 0:09:55.960 --> 0:10:00.280 of line scenes like when are you like pan? Are 0:10:00.320 --> 0:10:02.160 you excited? Are you making out with Jeff? Are you 0:10:02.200 --> 0:10:04.120 liking it? He's been your friend for twenty years? 0:10:04.160 --> 0:10:04.280 Like? 0:10:05.160 --> 0:10:08.000 So, I had done season one and then I took 0:10:08.080 --> 0:10:10.679 my friends were running Gray's Anatomy, and they said, will 0:10:10.679 --> 0:10:13.160 you come and consult as a writer because I've been 0:10:13.200 --> 0:10:15.320 a writer for a long time, will you consult as 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:17.400 a writer in the writer's room of Gray's Anatomy? And 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.040 I took a meeting with Betsy and Shonda and my 0:10:20.120 --> 0:10:22.840 two friends Tony and Joan, who are still my best friends, 0:10:23.240 --> 0:10:26.079 and I was like, look, this would be an amazing opportunity. 0:10:26.120 --> 0:10:29.320 I'm really flattered and I would love to but I've 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:32.960 really enjoyed the three episodes I got to do on Scandal, 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.400 and if there's any I'm not suggesting that he's coming back, 0:10:36.440 --> 0:10:39.440 but if there's any chance that James would come back 0:10:39.440 --> 0:10:43.199 in season two, I wouldn't want the fact that I'm writer, 0:10:43.480 --> 0:10:45.880 I'm writing in the writer's room of Grays to stop 0:10:45.920 --> 0:10:48.600 me from being on Scandal. And they said, don't worry 0:10:48.600 --> 0:10:52.520 about it. Well, nowhere to find you nice. In other words, 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:54.679 if you're at the writer's room at Grays, we can 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:57.360 write you onto Scandal and you can just bounce back 0:10:57.360 --> 0:10:59.360 and forth, which is what I did for the next 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:01.000 two years. In the next two seasons. 0:11:02.040 --> 0:11:02.760 Exhausting. 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.640 It was. It was exhausting and made my head spin 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:07.960 a little bit. But I say that only because in 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:14.360 season two, pretty quickly James comes back and James starts 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:17.360 to like get a writing gig again, and the adoption 0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.120 of the baby becomes a story for them, and I 0:11:20.200 --> 0:11:22.680 go visit my mom in New York. She lives in Brooklyn, 0:11:23.120 --> 0:11:26.400 and I realized and we all remember this. Season two 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:31.880 is when the viewership of that show went berserk and 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:36.120 suddenly I was like people on the street were recognizing 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.160 me from having only done four episodes or five. In 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.640 season two was when it felt like, oh, this, this 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:46.160 is something that could be more or bigger or more 0:11:46.360 --> 0:11:49.560 layered and more. And the truth is, season two, I 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:53.920 was so lucky to get to play a journalist, a 0:11:54.040 --> 0:11:58.200 dad wanting to adopt a baby, the love of Cyrus's life. 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.280 You know, you spy as well on the show. 0:12:01.559 --> 0:12:04.319 Yeah, it was the end of season two that James 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.400 was poking the bear a little bit. Yeah, but for 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:09.319 the first half of the season, it was all about parenthood. 0:12:09.520 --> 0:12:11.240 It was all about like, I don't know what you're 0:12:11.240 --> 0:12:15.360 doing at work, but I am happy to be a dad. 0:12:16.200 --> 0:12:18.240 And then he was like, I'm getting bored and I 0:12:18.280 --> 0:12:20.600 want to start writing again. And then there was a 0:12:20.640 --> 0:12:23.960 lot of interesting conflict to be played with Jeff when 0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:27.040 I was trying to throw my hat back in the 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:31.040 ring into the world of journalism. And you know, it 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:34.240 played out, our little piece of the show played out 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:40.160 like a very realistic, oddly but crazy marriage and. 0:12:40.280 --> 0:12:42.360 It's just like you and Don right, just like you. 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.400 Oh, I can talk about this more later, but there's 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.520 so much that I found baffling about how much we 0:12:48.679 --> 0:12:53.000 connected to people as like the heart, like the place 0:12:53.040 --> 0:12:56.400 where the love and family and marriage existed in the show. 0:12:56.600 --> 0:12:59.320 Yeah you guys, they wrote, you have such a love 0:12:59.440 --> 0:13:02.480 even though he is a monster, and you just said it. 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.360 You said it. But the key to this show, I'm 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:07.080 telling you, Like I figured it out recently when I 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.640 had to rewatch these episodes for today, I was like, 0:13:10.720 --> 0:13:14.200 this show is crazy. I had forgotten this is this show. 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:15.480 Is it's crazy. 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:17.920 It's so good. Writing is so good. 0:13:17.960 --> 0:13:19.080 You can't you couldn't. 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:21.080 You know, people a say like, you can't write that shit, 0:13:21.160 --> 0:13:25.640 but they did. Like every character is so complicated, and 0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:30.520 you know what trumps all of the malice and evil 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:35.400 and and backstabbing and politicking and all of the torture 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:40.800 love any character that loved another character, Like it's unbelievable. 0:13:40.840 --> 0:13:44.160 The fact that Cyrus loved James as much as he 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:47.040 did even though he's killed He tried to kill him 0:13:47.040 --> 0:13:50.120 in the end of season two, and then James is 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:52.640 like that motherfucker, I am married to a monster and 0:13:52.640 --> 0:13:54.400 I'm gonna bring him down, and then I'm like, but 0:13:54.480 --> 0:13:56.800 I love him, right, but I love him. I'm gonna 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:58.400 forgive him because I love him. We have a baby 0:13:58.400 --> 0:14:01.160 together and we have a family him. And he's like, Honey, 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.080 I love you so much. I love you. I'm like, 0:14:03.160 --> 0:14:05.520 you love me so much, You're like going to I'm 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:08.000 gonna wind him dead because you love me so much. 0:14:08.360 --> 0:14:11.480 But the love is unbelievable. There's a scene in the 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:15.040 episode right before three thirteen where David Rosen winds up 0:14:15.080 --> 0:14:19.000 in the trunk of a car and he's calling Darby's character, 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:19.520 what's her name? 0:14:19.600 --> 0:14:19.960 Abby? 0:14:20.040 --> 0:14:23.000 Abby? Abby? And he's like, Abby, I didn't say it before, 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:24.200 but I'm now in the trunk of a car and 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:25.320 I don't know what's going to happen to me, but 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:26.760 I just want to tell you I love you. I 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:28.000 just want to tell you I love you. I should 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:29.480 have said it yesterday, but I'm going to just say 0:14:29.480 --> 0:14:32.400 it now. And the trunk opens and you and Abby 0:14:32.440 --> 0:14:35.640 are standing there too, write Gherma, were you there? Or 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:38.320 was he? I think it's I don't remember, I don't 0:14:38.360 --> 0:14:43.680 remember you rescue him. I almost started crying. I literally 0:14:43.720 --> 0:14:46.200 I found it so touching. I found it so touching. 0:14:46.240 --> 0:14:49.280 I'm like, he's just been like almost abducted and there's 0:14:49.320 --> 0:14:52.200 abby to rescue him. And it's really the love that 0:14:52.600 --> 0:14:53.640 like it's crazy. 0:14:53.680 --> 0:14:56.440 It's a romantic show at the end of h it's 0:14:56.480 --> 0:15:00.320 so it's so you know, it's just like Liver Die 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.520 Like it's either it's so tweeter where it's like you 0:15:03.560 --> 0:15:05.880 either want to fuck them or punch them right, It's like, 0:15:05.920 --> 0:15:08.960 honey pee they ride that line all the time. How 0:15:09.080 --> 0:15:11.400 is it working with Jeff, who you'd been friends with 0:15:11.440 --> 0:15:15.040 forever to try to like be I mean, do you 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:19.080 think the love came out so well because you guys 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:23.560 had such a long relationship or like, yeah, I just 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:25.080 buy it, man, I bought it. 0:15:25.200 --> 0:15:28.520 I love Jeff, I love Jeff beforehand. I love Jeff. 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:32.240 But I mean we had the opposite of a romantic relationship. 0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:35.400 I mean, he's a straight man for his entire life 0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:39.960 and I'm not. And we were friends and we had 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:42.080 to do you know, we had to go there with 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:46.000 each other in a way that was at first very awkward, 0:15:46.600 --> 0:15:50.000 and yet we both just gave ourselves over to it. 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:53.520 And I trusted him with and still do to this day. 0:15:53.600 --> 0:15:57.760 I trust him with my life, and we love each 0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.960 other so much, Like I just saw him to nights 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.040 ago and I was like, we just love each other. 0:16:03.080 --> 0:16:05.640 We love each other like we I can't explain it. 0:16:05.680 --> 0:16:08.600 We've been through something together now. That said, there was 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.160 the sexual nature of our relationship and the ways that 0:16:12.520 --> 0:16:16.120 Shanda and those writers pushed the envelope on what you 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:20.720 can show on ABC was not easy. It was not easy, 0:16:20.760 --> 0:16:23.120 I will say that, like having my head pushed data 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.240 frame and and I remember having an argument with Tony Goldwin, 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:29.360 who was directing an episode, and they were they wanted 0:16:29.400 --> 0:16:33.840 to simulate my going down on Jeff And I was like, Tony, 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:36.720 why is it always me? Like why do I always 0:16:37.240 --> 0:16:37.680 this is so? 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:40.200 Why the bottom? 0:16:40.520 --> 0:16:44.200 Why do I have to I don't remember an episode 0:16:44.240 --> 0:16:47.840 where he's blown me, so like why can we? And 0:16:47.880 --> 0:16:50.080 then and I said, it just feels and I have 0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:52.360 to be honest with you, like I had this total 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:55.800 window into what women must have experienced in our business 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:58.680 for like five decades. There was there was a little 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:02.680 bit of like embarrassment and my own internalized homophobia around 0:17:02.720 --> 0:17:05.479 the crew about the ways in which I had to 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.119 sort of play that role in his life because I 0:17:08.200 --> 0:17:15.640 was his younger, incredibly hot husband, and yes, and Tony said, 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:18.560 and and Tony said, do you think that I haven't 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:21.000 had to throw myself. I'm a married man with two 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.680 with two daughters, and I had to throw myself on 0:17:24.119 --> 0:17:27.040 the on the desk of the Oval office with Kerry Washington. 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:28.200 And I said, uh. 0:17:28.160 --> 0:17:30.000 Huh yeah, all right, motherfucker. 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.719 I was like, yes, yes, you did. You did have 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:34.760 to do that. And therefore, of course, I mean, it's 0:17:34.760 --> 0:17:36.680 all for the art, and of course I love Jeff 0:17:36.680 --> 0:17:39.600 and but I'm just saying, like, couldn't our relationship be 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:42.000 depicted in a more equal way? And He's like, that's 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:44.560 not the kind of relationship this is. Anyway, we had 0:17:44.640 --> 0:17:46.840 that out on set and I wound up doing what 0:17:46.880 --> 0:17:47.639 I had to do. 0:17:47.840 --> 0:17:50.960 And it and then you've been out of frame. I'm 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:52.119 gonna I did. 0:17:52.000 --> 0:17:54.520 What was on the page because I my job as 0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:57.280 an actor is too is to do what's on the page. 0:17:57.440 --> 0:17:58.240 We'll be right back. 0:17:58.240 --> 0:18:06.840 Guys, when you did the naked scene, were you both 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:09.560 in like banana hammocks. I'm sorry, I have to know. 0:18:09.680 --> 0:18:14.760 Oh my god, we were so anxious about that scene. 0:18:14.960 --> 0:18:18.760 We had eleven days. I begged at at the table read. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:20.920 I had a nervous breakdown when I read that in 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:23.000 because you know, we only read what we were gonna 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.199 do at the table reads. There was no prep and 0:18:25.280 --> 0:18:27.840 I begged them, I said, can we schedule this scene 0:18:27.880 --> 0:18:30.159 for the last day of the so I have eleven 0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.200 days to lose thirty pounds. I mean, oh my god, 0:18:33.359 --> 0:18:35.959 I need eleven days to do pushups and set ups 0:18:36.000 --> 0:18:37.680 so I can look like Brad Pitt by the time 0:18:37.720 --> 0:18:41.040 they take off my shirt. And I starved myself for 0:18:41.320 --> 0:18:44.600 eleven days, and then I realized at the end of 0:18:44.640 --> 0:18:48.680 eleven days that I don't look like Brad Pitt eleven days, 0:18:48.840 --> 0:18:51.919 twenty two days, or in three hundred and sixty five days, 0:18:52.080 --> 0:18:54.440 I looked very much like the version of myself. And 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:57.800 Jeff's like, I'm not even gonna bother. Okay, so I'm 0:18:57.840 --> 0:19:00.440 having whatever I want. I'm not even going to bother. 0:19:00.800 --> 0:19:04.480 I remember Jeff working out, though I remember him going 0:19:04.520 --> 0:19:06.600 to the gym and working out during that time. 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:10.720 They wanted to shoot very specifically. They wanted to make 0:19:10.760 --> 0:19:14.840 sure that the only thing that blocked our nudity were 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:18.840 objects in the room lamp a lamp. So they said, 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.320 they said to us, you can wear a dance belt 0:19:21.640 --> 0:19:24.480 or a jock strap, or a or a what do 0:19:24.480 --> 0:19:30.560 they call them a so so it's called a sock, 0:19:30.600 --> 0:19:34.200 a cock sock. And so we had all of them. 0:19:34.359 --> 0:19:36.760 We had all of them, and so we all of 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:40.200 the time. Oh yeah, I wore a turtleneck. I tried. 0:19:40.280 --> 0:19:42.840 I tried to get away with I was like talking about, 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:45.840 you know, how to get away with murder. I was 0:19:45.920 --> 0:19:49.720 trying to get away with wearing. I was wearing more 0:19:49.720 --> 0:19:51.680 clothes than I've ever worn in my life. And I 0:19:51.720 --> 0:19:53.480 would peel it off and peel it off, and peel 0:19:53.480 --> 0:19:55.159 it off and peel it off, and then we do 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:58.000 a take. And then Verica came in and he was like, 0:19:58.359 --> 0:20:00.520 we see the edge of the dance spelt. And I 0:20:00.560 --> 0:20:02.240 was like, so I took. 0:20:02.040 --> 0:20:06.600 Off the dance belt and now something now dance dance spelt. 0:20:06.920 --> 0:20:09.080