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Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome

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Speaker 1: back to the show Ridiculous Historians. Thank you, as always

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Speaker 1: so much for tuning in. That's our one and only

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Speaker 1: super producer, the Man, the myth Legend, Mr Max Williams.

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Speaker 1: Give it up for him. I'm Ben Noel. This is uh.

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Speaker 1: This is a two parter that we are doing on purpose.

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Speaker 1: Look at us, man, oh man, We're like, we're like

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Speaker 1: real podcast adults. Today. I put on a suit jacket today.

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Speaker 1: I'm dressing up a little bit because although I still

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Speaker 1: have a hoodie on under this, because we are diving

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Speaker 1: into some very bizarre stories and we're not doing it alone.

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Speaker 1: We have guests, don't we, Boy? Do we? Ever? Today

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Speaker 1: we are joined by both hosts of the incredible I

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Speaker 1: Heart podcast, Tossed Popcorn Um Leanna Holston and Sienna Jacole,

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Speaker 1: who are both dear, old, close, funny but in a

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Speaker 1: hot way, friends who have neither seen nor enjoyed that

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Speaker 1: many films, particularly the classics. I am pulling this directly

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Speaker 1: from your Apple podcast description because I love it. It's

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Speaker 1: leading with self deprecation. Is away into my heart. Thank

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Speaker 1: you so much for joining us today. Thank you for

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Speaker 1: having us. We're so happy to be here now. Behind

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Speaker 1: the scenes of our behind the scenes show, you'll get

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Speaker 1: why that's an okay joke at the end. Behind the

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Speaker 1: scenes here, we have been working together off air to

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Speaker 1: get our schedules to align because both Nolan I and

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Speaker 1: Max as well are huge film buffs and we love

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Speaker 1: we love listening to tossed popcorn, and we wanted to

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Speaker 1: have you all on the show with us today so

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Speaker 1: that we can share some tales, true life tales of

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Speaker 1: the bizarre, at times disturbing things that happened behind the

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Speaker 1: camera during the creation of some of some of the

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Speaker 1: best films in the world of film. And when we

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Speaker 1: talked about this, we didn't want to spoil too much

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Speaker 1: for each other, but I I was hoping against hope

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Speaker 1: that one of us would talk about, uh, one of

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Speaker 1: my favorite urban legends and disaster stories in the world

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Speaker 1: of film. And that's your idea, Leanna, the Wizard of Oz.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, what a what a cursed, cursed film.

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Speaker 1: You wouldn't think it because it's such a delightful film.

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Speaker 1: It's definitely a troubled production, one that it was pure

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Speaker 1: chaos behind the scenes. I love it. Why don't we

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Speaker 1: lead with that one then, I mean, it seems we're

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Speaker 1: all raring to go and hear about some munchkin disasters

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Speaker 1: and what is it like aluminum paint poisonings. Again, I

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Speaker 1: know a little bit about it. Um, I don't know

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Speaker 1: which parts of it are true and which parts have

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Speaker 1: been kind of trumped up and exaggerated over time, but

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Speaker 1: hopefully we'll figure that out right now. Oh yeah, um,

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Speaker 1: I don't mean to start this with two massive of

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Speaker 1: a brag, but I found a book and I read. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I don't know I do those. But there's a book

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Speaker 1: downloaded from the l a public library on my laptop

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Speaker 1: currently about this movie, which is it's a book called

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Speaker 1: The Making of the Wizard of Oz by this name.

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Speaker 1: There's no way I'm gonna nail this. But al Geane

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Speaker 1: Harmet's I think, is the name of the woman who

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Speaker 1: wrote it, and she wrote this, thank you so much,

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Speaker 1: thank you, I appreciate it. She wrote it in the

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Speaker 1: seventies and actually interviewed all the surviving cast and crew

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Speaker 1: of the film who she could find to ask about

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Speaker 1: all of these tall tales. Because the set and the

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Speaker 1: movie is mired in rumors and sort of lore about

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Speaker 1: what actually happened. There was a big rumor that somebody

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Speaker 1: died in the making of it, and this book has

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Speaker 1: clarified a lot of those and unfortunately for my sort

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Speaker 1: of dark interest in morbid history, nobody did die. But

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Speaker 1: fortunately for them, nobody did die. So that is good. Okay,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna start at the top, even from the beginning

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Speaker 1: of this film, before they even had the final script,

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Speaker 1: before they were on set. The movie itself had ten

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Speaker 1: screenwriters over the course of the writing of it. Herman

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Speaker 1: Manko Wicks, who we we know perhaps from the film

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Speaker 1: manc was the first of ten screenwriters. Two of the

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Speaker 1: ten were alcoholics, and one of the ten had a

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Speaker 1: failing marriage and then turned to drink to sort of

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Speaker 1: cope with that while writing the This it's just so

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Speaker 1: so funny to have such a wholesome and delightful film

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Speaker 1: be written by people whose lives were fully falling apart

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Speaker 1: over the course of it. What I did learn is

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Speaker 1: that it was pretty common at the time, this was

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight. I believe that they were writing it

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Speaker 1: for three to five writers to be assigned to a

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Speaker 1: film at the same time, and then kind of the

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Speaker 1: person who wrote the best treatment or the best overall

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Speaker 1: script one and was chosen to continue on with the

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Speaker 1: project was uncredited ultimately, Like I think so. I believe

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Speaker 1: they ultimately credited three writers and one person as the

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Speaker 1: adapter from the L. Frank Baum novel. Uh. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think you're right. He was not listed at all

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Speaker 1: in that. Was it a thing where they were just

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Speaker 1: not turning out the kind of script the studio wanted,

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Speaker 1: or were they doing okay and then had these terrible

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Speaker 1: personal demons and struggles that had to be replaced. I

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Speaker 1: think it was more the former. I think it was

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Speaker 1: more the studio just wanted to go in a different direction. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Is my loose understanding from this book that I did

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Speaker 1: read it eleven pm yesterday. Um. For like for Manco Wakes,

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Speaker 1: I think they just went with somebody else's treatment eventually

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Speaker 1: and just changed tacked tack a little bit for our

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Speaker 1: sailing audience, but of a sailing term there You're welcome,

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Speaker 1: And I don't think anybody was officially fired from the

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Speaker 1: writing of it. The directors, on the other hand, is

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Speaker 1: a whole other story. There were four directors for the film,

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Speaker 1: and they ultimately had or at one point had Victor

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Speaker 1: Fleming directing the movie, who is sort of the root

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Speaker 1: of a lot of the chaos on set that we

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Speaker 1: will get to, but he eventually left to go direct

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Speaker 1: gone with the Wind because that film was also struggling

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Speaker 1: behind the scenes. And also, you know, if you watch

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Speaker 1: it today, it has not aged well. So Lena, you're

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Speaker 1: saying that sort of the ruby slippers of leadership were

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Speaker 1: sort of switching from person to person. Thank you, so gorgeous,

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Speaker 1: Thank you. Yes, absolutely, there's one takeaway. I want people

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Speaker 1: to know that from feet to feet went the ruby slippers.

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Speaker 1: During the making of the Wizard of I gotta say,

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Speaker 1: like one of the most arresting images for me from

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Speaker 1: The Wizard of Oz are the feet of the Which

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Speaker 1: of the East kind of curling up those like kind

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Speaker 1: of Tim burtony black and white socks, you know, And

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Speaker 1: I always found that super disturbing when I was a kid.

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Speaker 1: Everything in that It's also weird that everything in that

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Speaker 1: film basically is somehow made of asbestos. I don't know,

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Speaker 1: like the snow the scarecrow costumes so wild. But I

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Speaker 1: I propose a I propose a theory that I'm making

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Speaker 1: up just now, and I'm just gonna make this my reality.

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Speaker 1: You guys don't have to come along with me, but

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Speaker 1: I am going to decide that the reason it went

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Speaker 1: through ten screenwriters and then numerous directors is due to

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Speaker 1: the studio saying, look, there's gonna be a band named

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Speaker 1: Pink Floyd, and everything in this film has to match

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Speaker 1: what happens in that album that will come out decades

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Speaker 1: and decades from now. There was a big ask it

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Speaker 1: was some very like forward thinking filmmaking, because everyone knows

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Speaker 1: that that is the only reason the Wizard of Oz

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Speaker 1: truly exists is for like Stoner, you know, um college

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Speaker 1: kids to to put it on mutant and listen to

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Speaker 1: the Dark Side of the Moon beautifully, which I swear

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Speaker 1: to God it does, you guys, it really does. It's

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Speaker 1: weird when the color the Munchkins are marching right along

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Speaker 1: with money. I mean, it's it's it's uncanny. I mean

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Speaker 1: Al frank Baum, you know, he sat down and he said,

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Speaker 1: you know what, eighty years from now, this is really

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Speaker 1: gonna slap Al frank Baum noted racist. He was not

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Speaker 1: a good guy. You should say, which kind of you know,

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Speaker 1: if you google anybody's name from the past and then

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Speaker 1: type scandal after it, you're not going to find exciting

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Speaker 1: fun results. Um. Okay, let's move on to the first

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Speaker 1: casualty on set. This was Buddy Ebsen, who was the

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Speaker 1: original tin Man. He was hospitalized in an oxygen tent

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Speaker 1: nine days after filming started. This is because you mentioned

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Speaker 1: aluminum in related accidents. The makeup artist powdered Buddy Ebsom's

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Speaker 1: face with aluminum dust to complete his sort of tin visage,

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Speaker 1: if you will, and that in turn, he inhaled that

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Speaker 1: dust and it coated his lungs. So he woke up

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Speaker 1: one night and couldn't feel I think like the left

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Speaker 1: side of his body, and he couldn't really breathe very well.

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Speaker 1: And they took him straight to the hospital and he

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Speaker 1: was there for a long time. Right there, that little

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Speaker 1: sprinkle of fairy dust is actually aluminum that's coding your lungs.

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Speaker 1: It was pretty brutal. I love it. It's just all

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Speaker 1: of this is so grim um. They do think though,

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Speaker 1: that this was either an allergic reaction to the aluminum

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Speaker 1: or it was a chemical effect of the fumes from

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Speaker 1: a substance that was mixed with the aluminum. Because the

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Speaker 1: makeup artist kept saying I used pure aluminum dust like

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Speaker 1: this shouldn't have happened, and so it seems like it was.

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Speaker 1: It had been used elsewhere and not coded people's lungs

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Speaker 1: and sent them to an oxygen tent in the hospital.

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Speaker 1: But for poor you gotta remember too, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're obviously dealing with some stuff right now

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood related to lack of safety on set, you know,

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Speaker 1: with this whole Alec Baldwin debacles. So it's certainly uh

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Speaker 1: interesting thing to talk about. But back then they had

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Speaker 1: very little safety oversights. It was just all for the pictures,

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Speaker 1: you know, like it didn't really they didn't really think

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Speaker 1: of the welfare of actors the way we very least

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Speaker 1: tried to and have supposedly a lot of fail safe

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Speaker 1: kind of mechanisms in place to make sure nobody gets

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Speaker 1: hurt or nothing happens like that totally. And MGM in

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Speaker 1: that year, which is the studio that produced this film,

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Speaker 1: they were supposed to make fifty two movies a year

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Speaker 1: every year, so everybody was focused on just churning out

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Speaker 1: stuff instead of doing things in the most safe way.

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Speaker 1: But so he was replaced, was it was he replaced

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Speaker 1: he just didn't want to go on because he was like, Nope,

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Speaker 1: not worth it. Well again, they got that fifty two

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Speaker 1: film a year schedule, so they how long and they

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Speaker 1: wait for this guy to Yeah, and while he was

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Speaker 1: in the hospital, MGM called and was like, do you

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Speaker 1: know when he's gonna be back on set or like not,

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Speaker 1: he's not well, why would you ask that? Um. He

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Speaker 1: did recover after I think six weeks, but then was

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Speaker 1: prone to bronchitis for the rest of his life, which

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Speaker 1: is and he was I know. He was replaced by

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Speaker 1: Jack Haley, who actually didn't know about the aluminum reaction

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Speaker 1: or the hospitalization, nor did the rest of the cast

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Speaker 1: because apparently Buddy like just didn't show up to set

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Speaker 1: one day and it was considered polite to not ask

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Speaker 1: questions at the time, so nobody was really that aware

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Speaker 1: of what had happened. Yeah, by the way, we can't

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Speaker 1: get away with that in the podcasting stuff, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. I feel like I feel like there's

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Speaker 1: something in our contracts that says we have to tell

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Speaker 1: each other if we have aluminum poisoning. Was very clear

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Speaker 1: about that when we started. Is that if you ever

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Speaker 1: get aluminum poisoning legally, you have to tell us it's

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Speaker 1: the famous aluminum clause. It's a boiler is you know,

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Speaker 1: directly because of this old debacle. Yeah, and we are

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Speaker 1: grateful every day being protected. So this is so, this

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Speaker 1: is albready. Um, this already sounds like stuff that would

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Speaker 1: make major headlines if it happened today. I think this

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Speaker 1: also gives us an illuminating look into just how how

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Speaker 1: powerful studios were while also being somewhat ruthless when it

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Speaker 1: comes to their treatment of their cast, their crew, even

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Speaker 1: their stars. Right, Judy Garland playing the protagonist Dorothy, what

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Speaker 1: she wasn't exactly having a walk in the park either.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct? No, that is absolutely correct, and thank you.

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Speaker 1: They chose Judy to be the lead of this film.

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Speaker 1: She was fifteen, I think when they decided to cast her,

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Speaker 1: and she was sixteen when they were filming it, and

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Speaker 1: she had just signed a contract with MGM two and

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Speaker 1: a half years before then and had had smaller parts.

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Speaker 1: But you could tell, given how they were casting her

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Speaker 1: leading to the Wizard of Oz, that they were intentionally

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Speaker 1: giving her larger and larger roles to make her a star,

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Speaker 1: so that by the time Wizard of Oz came out,

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Speaker 1: she was a bit more known. Also, it's so sad.

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Speaker 1: I mean, her story is so so sad, but MGM. Fully,

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Speaker 1: they wanted her for her singing voice. They loved her

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Speaker 1: singing voice so much, but they didn't like how she looked,

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Speaker 1: and so they put her on very strict diets. They

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Speaker 1: put her in very specifically, they had her nose redone.

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Speaker 1: They literally shaped her into what they wanted her to

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Speaker 1: look like to match her voice, which is what they

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Speaker 1: really loved about her. Plastic surgery. Plastic surgery, I believe so.

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Speaker 1: And then they also later on, I don't think they

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Speaker 1: did this for the Wizard of Oz, but for her

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Speaker 1: later project, they would put her on like I can't

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Speaker 1: remember which drug it was, but they literally gave her

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Speaker 1: what she would call happy pills that kept her awake

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Speaker 1: for seventy two hours so that they could film yeah,

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Speaker 1: pop and Benny's cigarette and then yeah, yeah, it's I mean,

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Speaker 1: it was just so out essentially like she her regiment

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Speaker 1: from the studio. It's probably what kicked off her lifelong

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Speaker 1: pill and alcohol addiction. I would say that's a fair yes,

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Speaker 1: especially if they started her so young, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I think She started with MGM at which is

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Speaker 1: you just are going to get it was all of

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Speaker 1: the drugs and alcohol on top of just like being

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Speaker 1: a child actor is going to mess you up psychologically anyway.

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Speaker 1: This is this is the thing that gets me too,

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Speaker 1: because I I think it's fair to say that many

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Speaker 1: people grew up with grew up thinking of this version

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Speaker 1: of Wizard of Oz along with The Whiz as sort

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Speaker 1: of canonical childhood films. You know, I loved it, like

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Speaker 1: in these are of course the days before Facebook, not

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Speaker 1: to date myself, and I would spend time thinking like,

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Speaker 1: I don't know who would I be in this Who

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Speaker 1: would I be in this story? You know, can't be

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Speaker 1: the star as Dorothy. I don't have the range. I

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Speaker 1: knew that even at my young age. But the more

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Speaker 1: we learn about what these folks went through, the less

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Speaker 1: and less you you envy them. You know what, Like

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Speaker 1: what if you had the chance to be in one

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Speaker 1: of in one of the most popular, most well known

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Speaker 1: films of all time, but you had you knew that

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Speaker 1: you would be going through hellish things for that that

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Speaker 1: shotted immortality. It's it's a tough question to answer, especially

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Speaker 1: the more we learn about the costumes, right, because the

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Speaker 1: tin Man is only one example, right, Like, weren't there

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Speaker 1: other problems with costumes in general? Oh yeah, there, sure,

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Speaker 1: we're we did. You mentioned that the Scarecroast costume was

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Speaker 1: made of asbestos, which is such a fun fact itself.

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Speaker 1: It's so stupid and dumb. Uh. And and the snow

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Speaker 1: that that falls on the poppy field also famously asbestos.

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Speaker 1: And it's funny that they had these very fire proof

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Speaker 1: costumes given how many people literally caught on fire during

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Speaker 1: the making of this film one of them. Yeah, sure, sure, yeah,

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Speaker 1: great question. So Margaret Hamilton's the Wicked Witch of the

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Speaker 1: West icon legend queen. We love her. She Oh, I'm sorry,

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Speaker 1: that's just oh I can't from that. Um but cyclist extraordinaire.

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Speaker 1: Where how would she fare in the Tour de France.

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Speaker 1: Probably well, we have to assume in in the scene

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Speaker 1: where the Wicked Witch shows up after the house has

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Speaker 1: fallen on soon to be shriveled foot, Wicked Witch of

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Speaker 1: the East, uh, And she leaves after the end of

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Speaker 1: that scene. She leaves in like a proof of smoke

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Speaker 1: and flame, and it's very exciting. But when they were

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Speaker 1: filming that as she was exiting. She was supposed to

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Speaker 1: go down through sort of a trap door into a pit,

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Speaker 1: and then the smoke and the flames would play over her,

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Speaker 1: so it looked like she had disappeared, but the flames

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Speaker 1: started too early, so she was still in them rather

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Speaker 1: than below ground in a pit where she should have been.

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Speaker 1: I know. It's also this is very sad. The reason

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Speaker 1: that this happened is because it's sort of the fault

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Speaker 1: of Victor Fleming, the director, where they had two shots.

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Speaker 1: They had two good takes of that scene before lunch,

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Speaker 1: and then everybody left for lunch, and when they came back,

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Speaker 1: Victor Fleming was like, let's just get a couple more

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Speaker 1: for insurance purposes, just so that we know we haven't

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Speaker 1: And it was for insurance purposes. It was in the

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Speaker 1: last take obviously didn't do one after, but in the

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Speaker 1: last take after lunch that this happened, which is that

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Speaker 1: because she didn't go down soon enough, her hat and

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Speaker 1: broom caught fire, which ended up scalding her face. It

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Speaker 1: burned off her right eyelashes and eyebrow and and this

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Speaker 1: is gnarly so sorry. In advance, all of the skin

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Speaker 1: on her right hand, which was the phrasing of it

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Speaker 1: in the book, and again I do apologize, but if

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Speaker 1: I had to read it, you have to hear it

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Speaker 1: was it was as if someone had peeled the skin

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Speaker 1: like an orange off of her right hand. That's another trip.

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Speaker 1: It's so interesting like these types of effects in this

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Speaker 1: era of Hollywood. It's such a neat kind of like

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Speaker 1: um transition from theater type effects, you know, to films.

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Speaker 1: So you've got like things like a pit that you

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Speaker 1: go into. It's all very kind of like low fi

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Speaker 1: um and and kind of theatrical. So it makes sense,

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Speaker 1: you know, the timing and all of that would be

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Speaker 1: so important. This kind of makes me think of also

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Speaker 1: like it's almost like the proto like Michael Jackson Pepsi

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Speaker 1: commercial kind of you know, um debacle where he you know,

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Speaker 1: was I think a pillar of flame like scalded his

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Speaker 1: face and it was all about timing. But that's a

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Speaker 1: live event, you know, so this is very similar in

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Speaker 1: terms of like the timing and firing and all of

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Speaker 1: the things having to communicate correctly. And that clearly did

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Speaker 1: not happen here. Yeah. Yeah, and it got worse, which

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Speaker 1: is that the green paint, the green makeup that she

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Speaker 1: was wearing was toxic because there was copper in it,

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Speaker 1: so after she'd been so severely burned, they had to

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Speaker 1: treat it like they had to pour alcohol on those

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Speaker 1: wounds to make sure that she didn't also become like yeah,

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Speaker 1: what is that medicalth thank you? Yes, um, and a

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Speaker 1: friend had to come pick her up from the lot.

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Speaker 1: MGM did not offer to send her home in a car. Wow,

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Speaker 1: Like most of my hand came off like can you

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Speaker 1: come get me? It's not in the budget, so we

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Speaker 1: have you know, uh uh, in a few decades there

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Speaker 1: will be something called uber. You could wait for that,

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Speaker 1: or you can call a friend. Yeah, I'll frank. I'm

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Speaker 1: also famously sensed that in a hundred years there's gonna

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Speaker 1: be a car service. That was yeah, you know, I

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Speaker 1: want to stand one thing here, Leana, because you mentioned

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Speaker 1: I think it's very diplomatic to say that this, this situation,

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Speaker 1: this uh tragic accident is is the fault of the director,

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Speaker 1: Victor Fleming. So one of the things that gets me

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Speaker 1: he is the director of the film, but the more

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Speaker 1: you learn about him, the less cool he seems like.

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Speaker 1: He seems like a real pill. Was this behavior with

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Speaker 1: the was this behavior with the Wicked which scene. Was

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Speaker 1: it an exception to a rule or is this just

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Speaker 1: the kind of stuff this guy did to people? It

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Speaker 1: was pretty constant. And here's a very perfect example of that,

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Speaker 1: I think myself is the which was out for about

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Speaker 1: six weeks to heal and didn't come back to set

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Speaker 1: until about February of the next year. She quote didn't

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Speaker 1: sue for the very simple reason that I wanted to

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Speaker 1: work again, which is leading it back to your point

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Speaker 1: about how studios were so powerful at the time that

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Speaker 1: even when you were severely injured in a set accident,

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Speaker 1: you didn't want to be labeled, especially as a woman,

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Speaker 1: as like difficult or anything like that. Um. But the

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Speaker 1: day that she returned to set, Victor Fleming tried to

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Speaker 1: get her to do another fire stunt and she was like, no,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna go ahead. And yeah, and this is the

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Speaker 1: scene in the movie where she's skywriting a threat to

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Speaker 1: it says like surrender Dorothy, and the iconic skywriting threat scene. Um.

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Speaker 1: And so she was on a broom. The broom was

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Speaker 1: elevated and there was a pipe under it that was

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Speaker 1: blowing like fire and smoke out behind the broom, and

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Speaker 1: she heard about it, and she kept asking people like,

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Speaker 1: why do you keep saying this is safe but also

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Speaker 1: giving me a fireproof costume. I don't understand. If it's

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Speaker 1: so safe, why also I need to be in like

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Speaker 1: an asbestos suit basically, And so she refused to do

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Speaker 1: the stunt, so in her place, her stunt double, Betty Danko,

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Speaker 1: did the stunt for her, and Margaret Hamiltons had told Betty.

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Speaker 1: She was like, hey, you don't have to do this.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty dangerous. It seems pretty risky. I literally just

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Speaker 1: got my hand back, like I really would not recommend

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Speaker 1: that you do this, and Betty said, no, no, they're

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Speaker 1: gonna pay me thirty five dollars for today if I

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Speaker 1: do this stunt, which is more than they paid her normally.

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Speaker 1: So let inflation calculating that real quickly. Sorry, it's a

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Speaker 1: thing we do. Sure, we just go poopoo. Of course

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Speaker 1: we must use our inflation calculator. It's a sunk cost anyway,

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Speaker 1: Sienna Leana. So we have to, like you know, for

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Speaker 1: the guys in accounting, we have to use this every

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Speaker 1: so often. So thirty five dollars in nineteen here we go. Uh,

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Speaker 1: that is going to if we get a drum roll

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Speaker 1: that is about that is six dollars and six cents. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you would get on a flaming room for that as well,

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Speaker 1: absolutely right now, Yeah, I don't know, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean that's like a day rate for like a

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Speaker 1: non you know, speaking extra. Maybe are we low or than?

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Speaker 1: I mean, that seems really low ball for us featured

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Speaker 1: stunt performance by today's standard. You guys work in Hollywood,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't you say? No? I mean, it's so much more

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Speaker 1: than I make in a day. I would absolutely do it.

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Speaker 1: If it's just stunt double was in her early twenties,

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Speaker 1: then I get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, We've all been

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Speaker 1: a woman in our early twenties being offered six hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars to dangle from a dangerous place and said, you

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Speaker 1: know what, Yeah, I'm gonna do it. I trust the

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Speaker 1: fortitude of my of my joints. I think I can

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Speaker 1: handle it. But but Betty gets up on this room.

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Speaker 1: They lifted like ten to fourteen feet in the air,

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Speaker 1: and the pipe that's under the broom blowing out smoke

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Speaker 1: and flame exploded and the exploded so hard that it

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Speaker 1: blew her off the room, and she fortunately caught herself

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Speaker 1: with her hands and she got like one leg around

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Speaker 1: the stick of the broom and just was dangling there

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Speaker 1: until they could lower her down to the ground. Her

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Speaker 1: left leg was bruised from her thigh to her knee,

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Speaker 1: and and this is another gnarly injury thing, there was

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Speaker 1: a two inch deep wound that circled her leg almost entirely,

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Speaker 1: and like contained bits of her costumes in God, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean back to the theater thing. I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have green screen back then. This would have

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Speaker 1: been like someone had had to have been hoisted up

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Speaker 1: on rigging at a not insignificant height, uh, and then

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Speaker 1: kind of flailed around with a flaming pipe shooting out

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Speaker 1: from behind the broom. Is that about some up the scene.

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Speaker 1: I think that's right. It really does feel like the

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Speaker 1: actors were just sort of another prop for directors at

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Speaker 1: this time, the theatrical thing very much so. They just

429
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:40,560
Speaker 1: are another thing too to make the spectacle happen. But yeah,

430
00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,760
Speaker 1: I think really didn't think about their actors at the time,

431
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,560
Speaker 1: Oh not at all. The other thing is Margaret Hamilton's

432
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 1: while she was refusing to do that stunt that blew

433
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,720
Speaker 1: Betty off the broom. Victor Fleming came in to Margaret

434
00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:54,679
Speaker 1: Hamilton's dressing room and it was like, come on, like

435
00:24:55,040 --> 00:25:01,920
Speaker 1: play along, you're you're being silly, like let's do Who

436
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:05,920
Speaker 1: gets persuaded by that, Arguments like I've got one word

437
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: for you, and then they go, you know, I never

438
00:25:10,119 --> 00:25:14,439
Speaker 1: thought of it that way, Vic, Okay, you know, if

439
00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,600
Speaker 1: I'm going to jump in here real quick, I kind

440
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,280
Speaker 1: of imagine that whole thing going on, like he's in

441
00:25:19,320 --> 00:25:20,800
Speaker 1: her room to come on, you should do this, and

442
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:21,960
Speaker 1: then it all of a sudden, there's a lot of

443
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,920
Speaker 1: explosion in the back right. He's like, come on, it

444
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: would be totally fine. You know you hear look was

445
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 1: screaming like us. She's holding under the broom and he's

446
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,800
Speaker 1: still trying to convince her. It's like, no, this is

447
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:37,159
Speaker 1: such a terrible idea. Attention to the screams behind the

448
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: curtain very good, very good classic reference. Uh yeah, and

449
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 1: it's it's honestly, it's pretty remarkable reading in the book.

450
00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:48,800
Speaker 1: Because Margaret Hamilton's was interviewed for the book. She was

451
00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: still alive when they were when the author was writing it,

452
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,199
Speaker 1: and it is pretty incredible the way that she just

453
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,240
Speaker 1: flat out refused to do it, because if you think

454
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 1: about actors at all at that time, standing up to

455
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,440
Speaker 1: a studio and saying like, you know what, no, I'm

456
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,600
Speaker 1: not going to do this, and especially women who could

457
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 1: so easily be labeled as like challenging to work with

458
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,240
Speaker 1: or you know, you could be eliminated from the production

459
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: so quickly. It is pretty heroic that she stood fast

460
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: and refused to do it. I mean, it sucks for Betty,

461
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:19,719
Speaker 1: but good remarked. And this is just it's interesting because

462
00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:24,200
Speaker 1: this this story takes us to some really dark places,

463
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 1: and we've already encountered some things that are gonna gonna

464
00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: stay with people the next time they watched The Wizard

465
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:37,800
Speaker 1: of Oz. But this is nowhere near all the terrible

466
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,200
Speaker 1: stuff that happened backstage. I mean, now that I'm thinking

467
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 1: about it, we could probably end up doing like a

468
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: limited series show, just six episodes on all the terrible

469
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: stuff that went down. Uh. And you know it's because

470
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:57,200
Speaker 1: of these stories, Leona. I have never tried to find

471
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: out what happened behind the scenes of Returned was Returned

472
00:27:01,720 --> 00:27:04,680
Speaker 1: to Oz that sequel that came out way later, because

473
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:07,840
Speaker 1: that thing terrified me as a child. Total nightmare fuel.

474
00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: She's like in a she's in a sanitarium at the

475
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: beginning and getting like electroshock therapy and basically like, oh

476
00:27:15,480 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 1: you have seen it. It's it's absolute, absolute nightmare fuel.

477
00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: And then there's like the Wheelers or these guys, yeah

478
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: rollerblade people know. Yeah. And then the this is from

479
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:29,960
Speaker 1: the early nineties. It's got for us a ball can

480
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: and it's like a little young uh huh sar back

481
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:40,760
Speaker 1: then you have a date in his nine with the facts. Okay,

482
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:47,439
Speaker 1: so co produced by Cocaine. I guess probably yeah, well great,

483
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,080
Speaker 1: I love I love you. This is enabling before we

484
00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:56,879
Speaker 1: before we moved to yet another story of bizarre, disturbing,

485
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: behind the scenes things and people's favorite films. What was

486
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: like as a takeaway, what was the thing that surprised

487
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: you the most overall when you we started learning how

488
00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: the you started learning how the Wizard of Oz sausage

489
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:16,080
Speaker 1: got made. You know, I'm afraid to ask about the

490
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:21,359
Speaker 1: flying monkeys. Frankly, when Betty Danko got hospitalized for getting

491
00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 1: exploded off a broom, the doctor who treated her was like,

492
00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: oh my god, two flying monkeys were just in here.

493
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: A couple of weeks ago because they fell down. But

494
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 1: it's fine, it's fine. The vibes were bad. It's not

495
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: a good time. I wonder what surprised me the most.

496
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: I think it was okay, this is a little bit sad,

497
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,440
Speaker 1: but just know that everybody was fine by the end

498
00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 1: of it, which is that Total who was played by

499
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:48,200
Speaker 1: Terry the Karen Terrier, got a little bit stepped on

500
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,560
Speaker 1: during the filming of one scene, and that for some reason,

501
00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,520
Speaker 1: I was like, I get that humans didn't have rights

502
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,400
Speaker 1: in the past. That to me is fine. I don't really,

503
00:28:55,440 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 1: that doesn't bother me. But to know that a dog

504
00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:03,040
Speaker 1: was at risk of injury, it's bothers him. Unfortunately, Terry recovered.

505
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,160
Speaker 1: She was totally okay by the end of it, but

506
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,880
Speaker 1: her trainer did pass out out of anxiety when she

507
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: returns to set, so that I think that to me

508
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: was like, oh, whoa, this production really was bad. Well,

509
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: I think Ben spot On and saying that we could

510
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,440
Speaker 1: at the very least devote a whole episode to this

511
00:29:21,600 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 1: um but I think it probably deserves surprise. It hasn't

512
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:26,960
Speaker 1: already happened a limited series to go because just yeah,

513
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: it's a whole book. I mean, we we we could

514
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: be here, uh talking about the woeful occurrences on the

515
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 1: set of The Wizard of Oz all day. Did you

516
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:36,880
Speaker 1: have any kind of a biggie to to leave us

517
00:29:36,880 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 1: with before we go to a break and then come

518
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: back with another story. I mean, this is this is

519
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,840
Speaker 1: not a non to accident. This is a little preview

520
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: for our to plug our own Wizard of Oz episode,

521
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: which is that the book itself is considered to be

522
00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,560
Speaker 1: a metaphor for the populist movement in America at the time.

523
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,960
Speaker 1: And uh oh, I love it. Such a fun reading

524
00:29:55,040 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: of the thing. And I'll just give you a little clue,

525
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: which is that the ruby slippers in the book were

526
00:29:59,120 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 1: originally the silver slippers to talk about the free silver

527
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 1: movement that was going on at the time in America. Yeah,

528
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 1: that stuff would have translated perfectly over time. I'm sure

529
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:12,640
Speaker 1: gold standard yellow brick road the pieces all tied together,

530
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:16,360
Speaker 1: you know. Uh. This also is it weird that this

531
00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:21,560
Speaker 1: makes me want to rewatch I don't want to say

532
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: hate watch, but rewatch the Wizard of Oz. There I'm

533
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 1: gonna be thinking about this, you know what I mean?

534
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: How many takes was this? How many people uh ended

535
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: up catching on fire in this scene. You know what,

536
00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 1: we haven't even talked about how sleazy the Munchkins were.

537
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 1: That is just full prejudice. Like the book has a

538
00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 1: whole chapter about the actors who played the Munchkins and

539
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: about how much rumors spread around them because it was

540
00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: just Hollywood being like, we don't like these people. Oh really,

541
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 1: then I if, if so, I apologize to the estate

542
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:56,640
Speaker 1: and the relatives of the Munchkins. I have a lot

543
00:30:56,680 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: more to learn about this. Uh what if the story

544
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,320
Speaker 1: is that I always heard that really kind of smacked

545
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 1: of like a spooky urban legend. Was that in a

546
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: scene you could see in the background like a munchkin,

547
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:13,320
Speaker 1: lifeless munchkin corpse hanging from a tree. And I think

548
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 1: that's not true, but it's the kind of stuff that

549
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 1: sure makes for a good story. I have not heard that.

550
00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 1: I love that as so spooky. Oh I believe it's

551
00:31:23,920 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 1: at the very beginning. Um, So, everybody, go ahead, get

552
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:33,880
Speaker 1: the two, the streaming platform or VHS machine of your choice,

553
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: and check out check out The Wizard of Oz and

554
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 1: let us know, uh, let let us know what other

555
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 1: weird facts you have learned about this this amazing film

556
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 1: behind the scenes and all the terrible things that happened.

557
00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:51,760
Speaker 1: And and uh, Leanna Siena is the toss popcorn Wizard

558
00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:58,720
Speaker 1: of Oz episode out yet very much to a get

559
00:31:58,720 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 1: you to a podcast streaming platform of choice and check

560
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 1: that one out too. All right, well, I guess I

561
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 1: will go next and turn back the clock a good

562
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: little bit back to nineteen twelve, UM, just a month

563
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 1: or so after the sinking of the Titanic. Uh, you know,

564
00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,680
Speaker 1: big ship, famously impenetrable, you know, all of the technology

565
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 1: and the you know, different compartments and all that the

566
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 1: the unsinkable ship that very very much sank. And this

567
00:32:34,720 --> 00:32:38,760
Speaker 1: is a story about one of the survivors of the

568
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,720
Speaker 1: HMS Titanic, a very um up and coming, you know,

569
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,360
Speaker 1: kind of bright shining star in Hollywood. UM, by the

570
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,920
Speaker 1: name of miss Dorothy Gibson. UM. Dorothy had kind of

571
00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 1: started making a name for herself in silent films. She

572
00:32:54,280 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: was known for, you know, having a really good kind

573
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 1: of presence and comedic timing. UM. And she you know,

574
00:33:02,280 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: had a bright future in Hollywood. UM. She already had

575
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: kind of a career between nineteen o six and nineteen

576
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: eleven UM, when she was seventeen as a stage performer

577
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,400
Speaker 1: and a dancer in vaudeville, And around nineteen o nine

578
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 1: she started modeling UM for a famous commercial artist, So

579
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:21,400
Speaker 1: she would have been in kind of some of those

580
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: like Madmen style kind of artists renderings that you would

581
00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,000
Speaker 1: have seen, you know, in an advertisement. Back in those days.

582
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,640
Speaker 1: She was a cover girl. She was on the cover

583
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: of things like Cosmopolitan, UM. And she also you know,

584
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:40,240
Speaker 1: was starting to do film. She signed a contract with

585
00:33:40,360 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: Eclaire Studios, which I had never heard of, Claire Studios

586
00:33:44,640 --> 00:33:47,960
Speaker 1: in nineteen eleven. Um, there's a reason we haven't really

587
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:51,880
Speaker 1: heard much about a Claire Studios. The whole studio burned

588
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,680
Speaker 1: to the ground and almost all of their prints were

589
00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,240
Speaker 1: lost in the five It feels like how so many

590
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:01,080
Speaker 1: businesses ended in the past. It's just all of it

591
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 1: burned down, all of it. It's just gone. So on

592
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,560
Speaker 1: March seventeenth of nineteen twelve, after she had already you know,

593
00:34:10,760 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: started kind of really getting into the pictures, UM, Dorothy

594
00:34:14,160 --> 00:34:17,239
Speaker 1: and her mom went to Europe on vacation, but she

595
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,920
Speaker 1: was called back to Hollywood UM to start working on

596
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,000
Speaker 1: a new series of film, like you know, very similar

597
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,680
Speaker 1: to what's up with the Wizard of Oz. It was

598
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: kind of a churn and burn kind of machine back then.

599
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: And this was in the days like before feature films

600
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: were the thing. It was more about making these they

601
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,400
Speaker 1: call them one reel film, so they would be what

602
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:36,840
Speaker 1: we would think of as like shorts, but a program

603
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:38,759
Speaker 1: wouldn't be a feature film. It would be like a

604
00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 1: series of these shorts are like you know, early animations

605
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:44,520
Speaker 1: and like newsreels and all of that, and then of

606
00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,520
Speaker 1: course like these kind of silent dramatizations. Um. So she

607
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 1: had to come back, so they decided to book two

608
00:34:50,320 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: tickets she and her mother on the maiden voyage of

609
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 1: the RMS Titanic. Excuse me, I think I mistakenly referred

610
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:59,600
Speaker 1: to as the HMS Titanic. Sorry, my nautical knowledge is

611
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:02,560
Speaker 1: not early as good as y'alls. Um. And they boarded,

612
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,400
Speaker 1: they were in Paris. They boarded at Sherbourg on the

613
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: tenth of April, and of course we know what happened.

614
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: What happened there She was playing bridge, apparently with some

615
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: very friendly New York bankers, was how she described it,

616
00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,959
Speaker 1: um to the New York Dramatic Mirror, which I love.

617
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: It's it's not like the Daily Mirror. It's the dramatic Mirror.

618
00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 1: Imbued all their writing with a sense of gravitas. That

619
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:33,160
Speaker 1: was sort of their Thingum so the newspaper invented by

620
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 1: like theater kids. Yeah, I think you know. Uh so

621
00:35:39,239 --> 00:35:43,640
Speaker 1: the Mirror, this is the dramatic Mirror. Okay, we we

622
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: only run melodramatic stories. The advertisements all have to be

623
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 1: full of turgent pros. Yeah, like exactly so, No, this

624
00:35:52,840 --> 00:35:55,440
Speaker 1: is this is something that you would introduced me to

625
00:35:56,080 --> 00:36:00,840
Speaker 1: off air. And what's what's fascinating is that it the

626
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:06,439
Speaker 1: her life. Gibson's life was going pretty well up to this,

627
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,760
Speaker 1: up to this post. And uh I have to ask,

628
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 1: do any of us know how to play bridge? I

629
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:15,839
Speaker 1: just want to get us only you have to be

630
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:21,440
Speaker 1: an old lady to play bridge. Naturally, my whole family

631
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: except for me, knows how to play bridge, and it

632
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,279
Speaker 1: is upsetting. At every holiday they're like, should we all

633
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,800
Speaker 1: play bridge? And I say, I can't know. I don't

634
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 1: want that. Why you like Trump's Trump's is a thing

635
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 1: in bridge right coming up? Trump's is good. I know

636
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: you can gamble at bridge. At the fact, I think

637
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:47,920
Speaker 1: you know. In a recent season of um the Fargo

638
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: television series, which is great. Um, you and McGregor his

639
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 1: character and his love interest in the in the show, Um,

640
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: who is played by don you remember her name? She

641
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,320
Speaker 1: was also in Scott Pilgrim Versus the World. Totally blanking

642
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:03,719
Speaker 1: on on the actor's name. But they are professional bridge players. Um.

643
00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: That was the first I've heard of there being a

644
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,759
Speaker 1: professional bridge circuit. But back in these days it was

645
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: definitely a very very popular game, kind of had a

646
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 1: bit of a high society vibe to it. You know,

647
00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,799
Speaker 1: you only played it with like bankers essentially. Um. But

648
00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:17,360
Speaker 1: you know, in the midst of this bridge game, she

649
00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:22,800
Speaker 1: heard what she described as a long drawn, sickening crunch

650
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:30,080
Speaker 1: not not not good. Uh, and she she she was alarmed. UM. Actually,

651
00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:32,879
Speaker 1: I just want to credit the article that I'm pulling from.

652
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:35,120
Speaker 1: There is a really good blog post on the History

653
00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,040
Speaker 1: Press called Dorothy Gibson, the Woman who Survived the Sinking

654
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: of the Titanic and the Nazi Prison. We're not gonna

655
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 1: get to the Nazi prison partly. That's sort of like

656
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:46,440
Speaker 1: its own part part of the story. But uh, definitely

657
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,319
Speaker 1: check that out on on the history press dot com.

658
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 1: It's really great history blog so she hears the sickening crunch,

659
00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 1: the lawn drawn out stickening crunch, and she decides to

660
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 1: go investigate and notices that the deck is now lopsided.

661
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:02,440
Speaker 1: They were. That means it's not a good thing to observed,

662
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,319
Speaker 1: you know, when you're out to see uh. So she

663
00:38:05,440 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 1: rushes back to her and her mother's quarters and gets

664
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:10,919
Speaker 1: her mom Um. They go back out to the deck

665
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: where they are very lucky to be on one of

666
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,400
Speaker 1: the very first lifeboats that were launched. And as we know,

667
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 1: you know from the James gammeron film, they were largely

668
00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:23,680
Speaker 1: reserved for people like her and these bankers she was

669
00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,080
Speaker 1: playing bridge with, you know, the high society folks kind

670
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:31,279
Speaker 1: of got um. The early um uh lifeboat positions so

671
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 1: kind of problematic and weird. I have to say good

672
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,600
Speaker 1: on her for hearing a sound and doing something about it, because,

673
00:38:38,680 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 1: as someone who lives alone, when there is a weird

674
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,759
Speaker 1: noise or like anything that sort of seems like maybe

675
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:45,960
Speaker 1: it's an earthquake. Because I live in Los Angeles, all

676
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:48,160
Speaker 1: I do is sit where I already was and say, well,

677
00:38:48,680 --> 00:38:52,240
Speaker 1: I hope everything's fine, right. If anything goes wrong, surely

678
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: someone will alert me. I would absolutely have died on

679
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:59,880
Speaker 1: the Titanic. I also have a question. It would be

680
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 1: statistically it's it's a tall milkshake. But Dr Mario, I

681
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:10,319
Speaker 1: don't know finished it out. No. I I assumed though,

682
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 1: that one of the primary reasons Dorothy Gibson was able

683
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,080
Speaker 1: to escape at all was because she was in first class.

684
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,920
Speaker 1: Is that correct? That's what I mean? Yeah, exactly, it was.

685
00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,000
Speaker 1: Those early lifeboats were reserved for you know, Billy Zane

686
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 1: in his you know so um. But they did get

687
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: on it. It was lifeboat number seven. They didn't realize though,

688
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 1: until they were out to see, you know, in those

689
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:36,799
Speaker 1: icy waters that there was a hole there. There there

690
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: had been a hole that was I don't know if

691
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:40,400
Speaker 1: it was as a result of the crash. It may

692
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:42,920
Speaker 1: have just been a faulty lifeboat. But a hole in

693
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:45,440
Speaker 1: the bottom of the lifeboat caused water to you know,

694
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 1: this ice cold water to start rushing in and flooding

695
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: the boat. But um, Dorothy explained in that same article

696
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: for the New York Traumatic Mirror. Yeah, they this is

697
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:57,400
Speaker 1: her quote. This was remedied by volunteer contributions from the

698
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:01,560
Speaker 1: lingerie of the women and the garments men and everyone

699
00:40:01,760 --> 00:40:07,759
Speaker 1: laughed at my spanks. My uh served a very very

700
00:40:07,760 --> 00:40:10,480
Speaker 1: important purpose. So they did. They did survive. Um, they

701
00:40:10,480 --> 00:40:13,640
Speaker 1: were able to to get to safety thanks to uh.

702
00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:16,920
Speaker 1: You know, these these neglijays and I'm assuming like vests

703
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:19,120
Speaker 1: or something like that. The you know, the that's you know,

704
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 1: the the the accessories, you know, things that you could

705
00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:26,720
Speaker 1: kind of part with. UM. So the studio head hearing

706
00:40:27,080 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 1: the news along with the rest of the world that

707
00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: the Titanic had sunk and knowing that Dorothy you know,

708
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:35,120
Speaker 1: had been on it. He does with studio heads and

709
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:39,040
Speaker 1: executive producers and the like. Often do you think about

710
00:40:39,040 --> 00:40:41,520
Speaker 1: how they how can I exploit this? You know, how

711
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:43,480
Speaker 1: can I exploit this and make some money? You have

712
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:45,959
Speaker 1: to be the first to the table. Anytimes something big

713
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: happens in the news. You can just almost hear the

714
00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: sound of Hollywood executives like you know, light bulbs coming

715
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 1: on and like greedy, you know, kind of Mr. Burns type,

716
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 1: fingers rubbing together, like how can I make how can

717
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:04,279
Speaker 1: I can vert this tragedy into grosses. I think it

718
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 1: might be something to where it's like, you don't it's

719
00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: a matter of respect. And the real tragedy here is

720
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: is if we don't get anything good out of this.

721
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:17,799
Speaker 1: This is for the people, This is for this is

722
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: for Gibson, This is for the bottom line anyway past

723
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 1: the cigars around. Well, that's a good point. Well, you know,

724
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,680
Speaker 1: it's obviously we know what the real motivations are, and

725
00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:30,200
Speaker 1: then we also know how someone in that position would

726
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:33,399
Speaker 1: communicate that to the person involved and trying to make

727
00:41:33,480 --> 00:41:35,920
Speaker 1: it more noble than it actually is. Like, oh no,

728
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:39,080
Speaker 1: there's an opportunity to honor the memory of those brave

729
00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:41,920
Speaker 1: men women, you know, who lost their lives with the Titanic.

730
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 1: This is an opportunity for you to tell your story, Dorothy.

731
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: And this guy's got the most evil Hollywood movie tycoon

732
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:55,759
Speaker 1: kind of name to his name is Jules Brulettore. Jules Brulettour.

733
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:00,879
Speaker 1: He's the beauty of him. He he's the reason. Yeah,

734
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:04,720
Speaker 1: he's total, total dickensiean villain type guy. And here's the

735
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 1: the irony. Maybe it's iron I always forget a lot

736
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 1: of some more set kind of confused me about what

737
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 1: means um, but he is the reason that she left

738
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: Europe in the first place. So he's the reason she

739
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:22,680
Speaker 1: was on the Titanic in the first, m Jules b Yeah, exactly,

740
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:25,719
Speaker 1: a real monster. So she gets back and he immediately

741
00:42:25,719 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 1: it's already the gears are are turning, like I said,

742
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,640
Speaker 1: the wheels are in motion to make a dramatization of

743
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:35,440
Speaker 1: the sinking of the Titanic, and he wants Dorothy to

744
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: be a part of it. He thinks she is uniquely

745
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:41,520
Speaker 1: positioned to tell this story, to tell her story, right, Um.

746
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,000
Speaker 1: So he ropes her in um under the guys of

747
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,720
Speaker 1: kind of being a producer of the thing, and also

748
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 1: he wants her to star in it. And he's able

749
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: to make the case in pure you know, uh Dickensian

750
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 1: villain kind of fashion um to to to be okay

751
00:42:57,000 --> 00:42:59,680
Speaker 1: with this and to be on board. Um. So they

752
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:05,640
Speaker 1: start production I believe literally a week a week after

753
00:43:05,719 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: she gets back, and they combined like stock footage, like newsreel,

754
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,920
Speaker 1: not stock footage news real footage rather of the the

755
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 1: icebergs and all of that stuff. Um, And they film

756
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: some stuff you know, on a set and against just

757
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,480
Speaker 1: a one reel film. It was finalized in nineteen fifteen.

758
00:43:23,040 --> 00:43:26,080
Speaker 1: Oh and by the way, according to this blog post

759
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,520
Speaker 1: um and other sources in order, this is this is

760
00:43:28,560 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: their take on it in order to preserve his reputation.

761
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:39,839
Speaker 1: Us or married Dorothy No snidely whiplash kind of guy.

762
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:42,520
Speaker 1: That's right. They had been having an affair. He was

763
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,880
Speaker 1: twisting the screws in so many ways, right, I mean

764
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 1: emotionally twisting the screws, like acting as though he had

765
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 1: her best interest at heart. He's now her husband. I mean,

766
00:43:53,239 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: this guy is a real piece of work. The number

767
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 1: of times I've been like, we do historical context on

768
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,799
Speaker 1: our podcast. In the number of times I've been reading

769
00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 1: about some producer director who gave a woman a hard

770
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: time and then the article is like, and then he

771
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:10,080
Speaker 1: married her. Bananas, so it's all fine. Yeah, this guy

772
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: is also nineteen years older than her. Find what works

773
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:19,520
Speaker 1: for you. But it feels like a messed up dynamic

774
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: the whole thing. I mean, it's it's a it's a

775
00:44:21,360 --> 00:44:23,640
Speaker 1: power dynamic, right. I mean, she's like, you know, super

776
00:44:23,719 --> 00:44:25,400
Speaker 1: young and hungry and to your point, you know, in

777
00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 1: the Wizard of Us segments very very beholden to the studio.

778
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:31,160
Speaker 1: You have a contract. You're kind of like their property.

779
00:44:31,239 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: Not to mention being a woman. You don't want to

780
00:44:33,520 --> 00:44:37,080
Speaker 1: rock the boat. Oh no, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I

781
00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: just the pun was intended. After the fact, is that

782
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,359
Speaker 1: a people, a lot of people died. So the film

783
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,799
Speaker 1: comes out it's a big hit. Actually, it's a big hit.

784
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:53,280
Speaker 1: It received mixed reviews. Let's say um. The Moving Picture

785
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 1: World issue on May eleventh, nineteen twelve described her performance

786
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 1: gives us performance as a unique piece of acting in

787
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: the sensational new film play of h. Claire Company, creating

788
00:45:04,640 --> 00:45:07,520
Speaker 1: a great activity in the market for the universal interest

789
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,680
Speaker 1: in the catastrophe has made a national demand, and the

790
00:45:10,840 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 1: review goes on. Ms Gibson had hardly recovered from her

791
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: terrible strain in the wreck when she was called upon

792
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,320
Speaker 1: to take part in this new piece, which she constructed

793
00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,680
Speaker 1: as well constructed, I guess she refers to her creative

794
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 1: hand and kind of shaping the thing. Um, it was

795
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: a nerve racking task, but like actresses before the footlights,

796
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:31,640
Speaker 1: this beautiful young cinematic star valiantly conquered her own feelings

797
00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,960
Speaker 1: and went through the work. Bravo, Dorothy, Bravo. Um, a

798
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:39,799
Speaker 1: surprising and artistically perfect real has resulted. And then we've

799
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:44,560
Speaker 1: got the New York dramatic mirror again. Um. Really like

800
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: skewering the whole thing seems super drama. The bare idea

801
00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: of undertaking to reproduce in a studio, no matter how

802
00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: well equipped or by re enacted scenes see scenes. An

803
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,440
Speaker 1: event of the appalling actor of the Titanic disaster with

804
00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 1: its victims is revolting, especially at this time when the

805
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 1: horrors of this event are so fresh in mind. And

806
00:46:08,280 --> 00:46:10,759
Speaker 1: that's a young woman who came so lately with her

807
00:46:10,840 --> 00:46:14,800
Speaker 1: good mother. Her good mother safely through the distressing scenes,

808
00:46:14,920 --> 00:46:17,960
Speaker 1: can now bring herself to commercialize her good fortune by

809
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:23,200
Speaker 1: the grace of God, is past understanding. Shame on you?

810
00:46:25,480 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: Five stars? Yeah yeah, follow it up with yeah B minus. Uh.

811
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:37,000
Speaker 1: So I heard and noill correct me on this. Uh,

812
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 1: because you've been reading were reading more about this. I

813
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: heard that the film she was actually in ended up

814
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:48,520
Speaker 1: like you can't see a copy of it today. Right?

815
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,719
Speaker 1: Does the whole thing still exists? I'll remember I talked

816
00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,160
Speaker 1: about earlier. The reason we haven't really heard much about

817
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,800
Speaker 1: the Claire Film Studio is because there was a fire.

818
00:46:58,239 --> 00:47:01,920
Speaker 1: It is considered a lost film. Only a handful of

819
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:07,040
Speaker 1: black and white production stills. Uh still exists to this day. Um,

820
00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:09,600
Speaker 1: because you know all of the original prints were lost.

821
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 1: So this is considered a lost film. Um, And honestly

822
00:47:13,719 --> 00:47:15,880
Speaker 1: that's really yeah. But it was the ghost of the

823
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: Titanic getting its revenge. I mean it was. It's you know,

824
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:21,360
Speaker 1: how long did it take for them to make a

825
00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:23,439
Speaker 1: nine eleven movie? I mean it was it was many,

826
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 1: many years, you know. I mean, I think as as

827
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 1: as rough and kind of manipulative and gross as Hollywood

828
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:34,120
Speaker 1: can be, no one's making that movie a week later.

829
00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:37,200
Speaker 1: You know, it's not happening. Um. So there was a

830
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: whole another layer of grossness and opportunism that existed in

831
00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: Hollywood back in these days. And you know, as as

832
00:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,880
Speaker 1: you could probably gather, uh from that that scathing review,

833
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,600
Speaker 1: it was a very difficult thing for Dorothy to do.

834
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,080
Speaker 1: That she was described by you know, people who were

835
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 1: around as look having the look of someone who had

836
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:01,279
Speaker 1: had a nerve shattering event take place. Um, and that

837
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: she would burst into tears periodically. You know. So again,

838
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,840
Speaker 1: when you think about the you know, influence that this

839
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:11,279
Speaker 1: gross film producer is kind of wielding over her, she

840
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: obviously did this absolutely under duress. Um. Thinking about all

841
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 1: of those factors that we talked about in Wizard of

842
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,640
Speaker 1: Oz that, well, I better do it or else I

843
00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:22,600
Speaker 1: might not have a job. Um. And it turns out

844
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,520
Speaker 1: she it was so distressed by the whole thing. You

845
00:48:26,600 --> 00:48:29,239
Speaker 1: can't necessarily blame this entirely on the film. I mean,

846
00:48:29,280 --> 00:48:31,160
Speaker 1: it could have been a lot of factors. But she

847
00:48:31,320 --> 00:48:34,480
Speaker 1: stopped acting after this. Um. This was this was the

848
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 1: last thing that she acted in, I believe, um. And

849
00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,200
Speaker 1: it was, you know, largely because she was described as

850
00:48:40,239 --> 00:48:43,800
Speaker 1: kind of having a nervous breakdown and the sort of

851
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 1: a loaded term. But she was not well and this

852
00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 1: probably exacerbated it. I mean, I'm sure you know PTSD.

853
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:51,439
Speaker 1: I don't think it was a thing at the time,

854
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:53,960
Speaker 1: but you know, that's definitely what she had and this

855
00:48:54,520 --> 00:48:58,160
Speaker 1: could not have been good for that. On on a

856
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:01,080
Speaker 1: positive note, though, if you do want to see her

857
00:49:01,560 --> 00:49:05,400
Speaker 1: on the silver screen, I believe there is one film

858
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,840
Speaker 1: that's still there's one extant film that stars Dorothy Gibson.

859
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:12,960
Speaker 1: It's called A Lucky Hold Up. It's very different from

860
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 1: The Titanic. From what I understand. It is an adventure comedy.

861
00:49:16,880 --> 00:49:20,120
Speaker 1: So there's that trying to look for some positivity, you know,

862
00:49:20,880 --> 00:49:24,200
Speaker 1: that's fun. Yeah, A lucky what's it called again, A

863
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,680
Speaker 1: lucky Oh wait, trans Atlantic alock, you hold up a

864
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:31,000
Speaker 1: lucky That sounds so okay, well let's check that out

865
00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:34,160
Speaker 1: to soften the blow of this pretty tragic story, but

866
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: super interesting and very much in line with what we

867
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:38,839
Speaker 1: talked about, you know, with the production of Wizard of Oz,

868
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,680
Speaker 1: or at least more like the politics behind the way

869
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:44,960
Speaker 1: actors were treated. Um and this is this really laid

870
00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:47,000
Speaker 1: the groundwork, you know, for for what happened in The

871
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:48,879
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz in terms of like actors just being

872
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,839
Speaker 1: kind of pawns for the money making schemes of these um,

873
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:57,400
Speaker 1: these awful film producers and directors. So that's that's that story.

874
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:03,680
Speaker 1: I feel like actors on contracts with these old studios

875
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 1: felt the same way that I did when I had

876
00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,720
Speaker 1: to buy a mattress for the first time as an adult,

877
00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,520
Speaker 1: which is like they told me the price and I

878
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 1: was like, I guess, I guess I have to do

879
00:50:14,120 --> 00:50:16,399
Speaker 1: this now, where they had to stick with the film

880
00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:19,560
Speaker 1: and I had to give someone seven hundred dollars for

881
00:50:19,680 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: a mattress. Hey, stick was a podcast game and they'll

882
00:50:22,719 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: send you They'll send you a Casper or purple. I

883
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:31,879
Speaker 1: mainly started a podcast to get a mattress that's that's

884
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:34,799
Speaker 1: literally why people white people do it these days. That's

885
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:39,279
Speaker 1: how I red glasgot started. Yeah, one one uh one

886
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,160
Speaker 1: note I wanted to add, I thought no, this would

887
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:45,440
Speaker 1: interest you. It's very tangentially related. But we all know

888
00:50:45,880 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 1: the later Titanic film James Cameron like the biggest plot

889
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,479
Speaker 1: hole there spoiler alert is that there's clearly enough route

890
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: on on the debris for everyone's take on this, everyone's

891
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: take on this, because I've heard people make the argument

892
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,279
Speaker 1: that you know, yeah, there was enough room physically, but

893
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 1: maybe you know, Leonardo DiCaprio's slight frame may have been

894
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:09,799
Speaker 1: just the thing that like, you know, tipped it over

895
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:12,120
Speaker 1: the edge into speaking territory. What do you what do

896
00:51:12,160 --> 00:51:15,200
Speaker 1: you guys think? Is this an unfair criticism or do

897
00:51:15,320 --> 00:51:20,120
Speaker 1: you think that that rose was kind of hogging the door? Leona?

898
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,960
Speaker 1: Have you seen the Titanic or thank you, yes, the

899
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:28,680
Speaker 1: boat itself? Sure, I have. You know, I might look

900
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 1: like it if you do my hair right, I do

901
00:51:30,080 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: look like I'm from the year nineteen twelve. But I

902
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:37,400
Speaker 1: think it is. Yeah, it's very true. Um my stance

903
00:51:37,640 --> 00:51:40,920
Speaker 1: is a poor choice of a of a prop item,

904
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:44,120
Speaker 1: but the social commentary itself is apt of. You know,

905
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: the woman who's in first class, comes from money, was

906
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,400
Speaker 1: guaranteed to have a good life, would be the one

907
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:51,759
Speaker 1: who survives. And the guy who got on because he

908
00:51:51,840 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 1: was I don't know, maybe playing bridge and one tickets

909
00:51:54,040 --> 00:52:00,080
Speaker 1: in a bridge duel. Maybe maybe a dice game me.

910
00:52:00,120 --> 00:52:07,040
Speaker 1: You know, but that's that's my tape. Okay, what about you, Sieta, Well,

911
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 1: I have not seen the film, but I have seen

912
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: many a meme about that particular part, so I know

913
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: about that, and based on those memes I saw, I mean,

914
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:16,960
Speaker 1: they made some good arguments. It seems like there was

915
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,000
Speaker 1: a lot of space. I could see a lot of

916
00:52:19,040 --> 00:52:25,000
Speaker 1: positions he could have taken to fit onto that great

917
00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,879
Speaker 1: not the largest guy. Yeah, that's fine, that's like Tom

918
00:52:28,960 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: Cruise style this. I'm bringing this up though, because I

919
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:33,640
Speaker 1: wanted to see if you guys have heard of this.

920
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:36,840
Speaker 1: I heard a rubor about the New Titanic that I

921
00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:42,239
Speaker 1: finally confirmed. Uh, almost all the cast and crew, or

922
00:52:42,280 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 1: a sizeable amount thereof, actually got incredibly sick when filming

923
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:53,239
Speaker 1: this because somebody laced the seafood chowder with PCP, which

924
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,640
Speaker 1: I did not. I'm so true that everybody's nodding like, oh, yeah,

925
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:00,520
Speaker 1: that was a big I have to I heard it

926
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 1: was l s D, but not quite maybe maybe I'm

927
00:53:03,520 --> 00:53:06,239
Speaker 1: maybe I'm mistaken. It was definitely a three lettered uh

928
00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:10,399
Speaker 1: psychotropic substance, and it was all um as a kind

929
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: of you know, middle finger to James Cameron, which sort

930
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,360
Speaker 1: of his confused He's you know, he's a notoriously difficult

931
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:18,239
Speaker 1: man to work for and and and you know, puts

932
00:53:18,280 --> 00:53:22,160
Speaker 1: people in really uncomfortable situations. I mean not Comizard of

933
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,960
Speaker 1: Oz level. Yeah, he's apparently an awful guy and wants

934
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:27,080
Speaker 1: what he wants and does whatever it takes to get

935
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: the shot. Yeah, Hollywood into I mean, again, no one's

936
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 1: inhaling toxic dust or anything, but they definitely are hanging

937
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,160
Speaker 1: out in ice cold water for for long periods of time.

938
00:53:35,200 --> 00:53:37,200
Speaker 1: But it does seem a little off to me that

939
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:40,320
Speaker 1: they would like dose the crafty, you know, with with

940
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:43,880
Speaker 1: with drugs instead of just you know, James Cameron's personal

941
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:49,959
Speaker 1: lobster play. Maybe like a misplaced act, is all I'm saying,

942
00:53:50,000 --> 00:53:52,600
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, Also, wasn't it the present day cast?

943
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:54,400
Speaker 1: Like wasn't it the woman who was like a hundred

944
00:53:54,480 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: and four during the filming. Yes, yeah, it was a

945
00:53:58,120 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: d people got hit with the PCP uh, one of

946
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:06,919
Speaker 1: them being Bill Paxton and James Cameron. Uh that that's correct,

947
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:11,560
Speaker 1: So didn't actually get Winslit or DiCaprio. But I can

948
00:54:11,640 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 1: see how someone would react adversely to Cameron's exacting style.

949
00:54:15,880 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: I had heard that his he was mainly doing the

950
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:22,440
Speaker 1: Titanic so that he could get the funding to do

951
00:54:22,680 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: deep sea submersible exploration. Like I'm not I was joking

952
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:28,680
Speaker 1: about the Pink Floyd stuff at the beginning of the show,

953
00:54:28,760 --> 00:54:34,320
Speaker 1: but I seriously heard that James Cameron had Titanic is

954
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:38,640
Speaker 1: sort of an excuse to have his Jacques Cousto moment. Yeah.

955
00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:41,760
Speaker 1: We we did an episode recently on this super interesting

956
00:54:41,920 --> 00:54:45,360
Speaker 1: Danish guy who was an Arctic explorer and made like

957
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:48,480
Speaker 1: a tool out of his own frozen feces to dig

958
00:54:48,560 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 1: himself out of like an avalanche collapse. Um, and he

959
00:54:52,080 --> 00:54:54,879
Speaker 1: founded what's the guy's name, Ben? Do you remember? Sorry, Peter,

960
00:54:55,040 --> 00:55:00,800
Speaker 1: that job was his last name? Fan, Yeah, so Peters,

961
00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: indeed it was. It was. It was just so he

962
00:55:05,560 --> 00:55:08,320
Speaker 1: fashioned himself a a cudgel if you will, or some

963
00:55:08,440 --> 00:55:11,560
Speaker 1: sort of chisel kind of out of his frozen and

964
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,239
Speaker 1: then he du himself out and then he went on

965
00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:16,560
Speaker 1: to found, uh, the the Adventurers Club or the Explorers Club,

966
00:55:16,600 --> 00:55:19,360
Speaker 1: I forget which one it is, um, And James Cameron

967
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,719
Speaker 1: is a member of that club, so full start call there. Also,

968
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:26,480
Speaker 1: we handled that whole entire poop chisel thing very maturely,

969
00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:36,239
Speaker 1: like thank you not we're podcast adults, like I said

970
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,200
Speaker 1: at the top of the show. Um, but I think

971
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:40,400
Speaker 1: that's that. Let let's let's let's up put a pin

972
00:55:40,440 --> 00:55:43,359
Speaker 1: in this story. I obviously much more to discuss, um

973
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:46,520
Speaker 1: as far as Dorothy is concerned. Um, not the Wizard

974
00:55:46,560 --> 00:55:48,880
Speaker 1: of Us Dorothy, this is Dorothy Gibson. Are our heroine

975
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,680
Speaker 1: in today's story. UM. Sad that she, you know, was

976
00:55:51,719 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: taking advantage of in this way. And obviously we promising

977
00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,880
Speaker 1: career in Hollywood kind of came to an end because

978
00:55:57,920 --> 00:56:00,160
Speaker 1: of the way she was treated, but kind of for

979
00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:03,200
Speaker 1: the course in these old Hollywood stories. So and hey,

980
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,839
Speaker 1: we promised a an intentional two partter, didn't we been?

981
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:08,920
Speaker 1: So I guess this is where we leave you today.

982
00:56:09,520 --> 00:56:12,840
Speaker 1: We did, we did, and shout out of course to

983
00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:17,720
Speaker 1: Wizard of Oz and to all the blood, sweat, tears

984
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,680
Speaker 1: and burns those people went through to make such an

985
00:56:20,680 --> 00:56:24,239
Speaker 1: amazing field, Leanna, Sienna, it has been a pleasure. We're

986
00:56:24,360 --> 00:56:26,839
Speaker 1: so glad that you're with us for this two part

987
00:56:27,360 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 1: sneak peek for part two, we're gonna learn about some

988
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:33,440
Speaker 1: We're gonna learn about one of the most iconic actors

989
00:56:33,480 --> 00:56:37,520
Speaker 1: in American history and one of the weirdest, and their

990
00:56:37,560 --> 00:56:40,680
Speaker 1: lives intersect and interesting ways. But before we get to

991
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:45,800
Speaker 1: that episode, why not give toss Popcorn a listen? Sienna, Leona,

992
00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:49,319
Speaker 1: Where can people find the show and learn more about

993
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,960
Speaker 1: your work? You can find us wherever find podcasts are

994
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:57,480
Speaker 1: downloaded on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, the I Heart podcast app,

995
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 1: and anywhere else that you want to listen to podcas us.

996
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:04,200
Speaker 1: We're everywhere. We're also all over social media at Tossed Popcorn.

997
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,520
Speaker 1: We got Instagram, Twitter, TikTok clash if you can believe

998
00:57:11,480 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 1: ahead of the social media curve. UM oh ma, well,

999
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: thank you guys so much for joining us. You can

1000
00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: also find Ridiculous History on the internet. UM. We have

1001
00:57:19,040 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 1: a group called the Ridiculous Historians on Facebook that you

1002
00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:25,520
Speaker 1: can join and um share memes hopefully with Rose and

1003
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:29,520
Speaker 1: Jack not sharing that door and whatever other historical tidbits

1004
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: you guys want to discuss. Check that out on Facebook.

1005
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 1: You can also find us on Instagram at Ridiculous History.

1006
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: You can find us as individual human people on Instagram

1007
00:57:37,440 --> 00:57:39,920
Speaker 1: or other social media platforms. I am exclusively on Instagram

1008
00:57:40,040 --> 00:57:42,680
Speaker 1: at how Now Noel Brown? How about You've done? The

1009
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:45,560
Speaker 1: rumors are true? You can get a look at the

1010
00:57:45,600 --> 00:57:48,240
Speaker 1: misadventures some of the behind the scenes research I'm doing

1011
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,280
Speaker 1: for this show and for many other shows, including stuff

1012
00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,120
Speaker 1: they don't want you to know, by heading over to

1013
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:56,760
Speaker 1: Instagram where I'm at ben Bowland bow l I n uh.

1014
00:57:56,880 --> 00:58:00,600
Speaker 1: You can also check out some spoilers for upcoming episodes

1015
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:03,640
Speaker 1: at Ben Bolan hs W. And the reason I can

1016
00:58:03,680 --> 00:58:05,720
Speaker 1: say spoilers is because I did a poll and it

1017
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,600
Speaker 1: was it was close, but it was like, people are

1018
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:11,840
Speaker 1: okay with spoilers. We want to yeah, we want to

1019
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,600
Speaker 1: thank We want to thank you guys so much for

1020
00:58:14,760 --> 00:58:18,120
Speaker 1: hanging out with us and staying for the conclusion of

1021
00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:22,200
Speaker 1: this two part series. Thanks as always to the one

1022
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:25,080
Speaker 1: and only Mr Max Williams. Thanks to Casey Pegram, Thanks

1023
00:58:25,120 --> 00:58:28,840
Speaker 1: to Alex Williams who composed this slap in Bob and Oh.

1024
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 1: Also Noel, we made that executive decision not to have

1025
00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:38,120
Speaker 1: the quiz to appear at the end today, right, God, Okay, God,

1026
00:58:38,200 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 1: Now we didn't want, we don't want to subject these

1027
00:58:40,720 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 1: fine people to him. Now, well, well we'll keep him

1028
00:58:43,440 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 1: at bay for just a little bit longer. We'll see

1029
00:58:45,840 --> 00:58:55,240
Speaker 1: you next time, folks. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio,

1030
00:58:55,320 --> 00:58:57,920
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever

1031
00:58:58,120 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.