1 00:00:14,836 --> 00:00:29,196 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Hi, I'm Phil Donahue and I'm Marlowe Thomas, and 2 00:00:29,316 --> 00:00:32,276 Speaker 1: we're going on a series of double dates to find 3 00:00:32,316 --> 00:00:40,756 Speaker 1: out what makes a marriage last. On paper, the marriage 4 00:00:40,756 --> 00:00:44,596 Speaker 1: of George Stephanopoulos and Ali Wentworth would not have been 5 00:00:44,636 --> 00:00:48,236 Speaker 1: a sure thing. He's a serious, strait laced news anchor, 6 00:00:48,636 --> 00:00:51,956 Speaker 1: and here she is this lively and mischievous comedian and 7 00:00:52,036 --> 00:00:54,276 Speaker 1: author who will go to any length to get a 8 00:00:54,396 --> 00:00:57,516 Speaker 1: laugh out of you. But the secret is George is 9 00:00:57,556 --> 00:01:01,436 Speaker 1: the abbot to Alice's costello, and she's the Lucy to 10 00:01:01,556 --> 00:01:04,076 Speaker 1: his rickey. So when we got a chance to visit 11 00:01:04,116 --> 00:01:07,316 Speaker 1: with them in their stylish and homeye apartment on Manhattan's 12 00:01:07,316 --> 00:01:09,756 Speaker 1: East Side, we knew it was going to be fun 13 00:01:09,876 --> 00:01:13,436 Speaker 1: and revealing. We settled into their living room to chat 14 00:01:13,716 --> 00:01:16,636 Speaker 1: and marlow asked Ali to tell us how it all began. 15 00:01:16,796 --> 00:01:21,076 Speaker 1: Twenty years ago. I was talking to another single woman 16 00:01:21,796 --> 00:01:25,116 Speaker 1: and I had just had a torrid love affair with 17 00:01:25,156 --> 00:01:28,436 Speaker 1: this British actor and I was ready to be serious 18 00:01:28,996 --> 00:01:32,156 Speaker 1: and she said, oh, me too. And I said, I'm 19 00:01:32,196 --> 00:01:34,276 Speaker 1: going to introduce you to my brother, and she said, 20 00:01:34,996 --> 00:01:38,796 Speaker 1: I can introduce you to my old friend, George Stephanopolis 21 00:01:38,916 --> 00:01:42,116 Speaker 1: and I said, no, no, thank you very much. I'm 22 00:01:42,156 --> 00:01:45,636 Speaker 1: from Washington, d C. I grew up around journalists. That's 23 00:01:45,636 --> 00:01:49,156 Speaker 1: the last thing I want, you know, were your parents journalist? Yeah, 24 00:01:49,196 --> 00:01:51,316 Speaker 1: and in the White House, I just I wanted Matthew 25 00:01:51,316 --> 00:01:53,236 Speaker 1: Perry or Hugh Grant. You know. I just was like, 26 00:01:53,436 --> 00:01:55,956 Speaker 1: I don't want that. And so a few weeks later, 27 00:01:55,996 --> 00:01:57,356 Speaker 1: I was coming to New York and I thought, you 28 00:01:57,396 --> 00:01:59,436 Speaker 1: know what, I'm going to call him. It'll be a 29 00:01:59,436 --> 00:02:02,356 Speaker 1: great dinner party story. My date with George Stefanov. I mean, 30 00:02:02,396 --> 00:02:05,756 Speaker 1: it practically writes itself. So I thought, we'll have an 31 00:02:05,756 --> 00:02:09,516 Speaker 1: interesting conversation and that'll be that. And I couldn't believe 32 00:02:09,596 --> 00:02:12,956 Speaker 1: when I left lunch that day, on an April day, 33 00:02:13,276 --> 00:02:18,876 Speaker 1: April fourth, that I said, I'm attracted to him. I'm 34 00:02:18,916 --> 00:02:24,076 Speaker 1: attracted to that guy. It's not that, but I think 35 00:02:24,196 --> 00:02:26,716 Speaker 1: the differences, Honey, it wasn't a blind date. I knew 36 00:02:26,756 --> 00:02:29,316 Speaker 1: who you were. I knew exactly who you were. You 37 00:02:29,316 --> 00:02:32,596 Speaker 1: were not my type. I wasn't your type. That's so 38 00:02:32,636 --> 00:02:35,836 Speaker 1: interesting to me. Everybody always says, including us, I knew, 39 00:02:36,236 --> 00:02:38,356 Speaker 1: you know, we knew, I knew, we knew I was. 40 00:02:38,876 --> 00:02:41,996 Speaker 1: He interviewed me on his show, and we were lovers 41 00:02:41,996 --> 00:02:44,516 Speaker 1: the next day. So that's that. Yes, we were very 42 00:02:44,596 --> 00:02:50,356 Speaker 1: quickly into that, but we we knew and that was it. 43 00:02:50,676 --> 00:02:52,076 Speaker 1: And I'll tell you, you know how you know you 44 00:02:52,556 --> 00:02:55,236 Speaker 1: when you know, you know, every other man that I 45 00:02:55,236 --> 00:02:57,836 Speaker 1: had dated or had a relationship with, I was so 46 00:02:58,436 --> 00:03:01,996 Speaker 1: concerned with sort of performing who I was, you know, 47 00:03:02,116 --> 00:03:04,316 Speaker 1: and I just didn't feel I had to do it 48 00:03:04,316 --> 00:03:07,916 Speaker 1: with them, you know. So the first time we did, 49 00:03:07,956 --> 00:03:10,196 Speaker 1: I did go home with you. There wasn't a like 50 00:03:10,276 --> 00:03:12,796 Speaker 1: how's my breath or oh god, my cellul lead or 51 00:03:13,156 --> 00:03:15,196 Speaker 1: I just I didn't care at all. And that was 52 00:03:15,356 --> 00:03:17,996 Speaker 1: that's when I really knew that I wasn't pretending to 53 00:03:18,036 --> 00:03:22,316 Speaker 1: be this you were auditioning. No, I had gotten the part. 54 00:03:23,196 --> 00:03:27,236 Speaker 1: What about you? It wasn't even I mean, it was immediate, 55 00:03:27,676 --> 00:03:30,716 Speaker 1: you know, as close to immedia as can possibly be. 56 00:03:30,956 --> 00:03:33,156 Speaker 1: I mean, we went out two or three days in 57 00:03:33,156 --> 00:03:37,156 Speaker 1: a row. What what what can you? You had dated 58 00:03:37,196 --> 00:03:40,636 Speaker 1: the Isle of Manhattan? Well, I mean it, and it's 59 00:03:40,676 --> 00:03:46,196 Speaker 1: not and it's some based on some crazy idea of perfection, 60 00:03:46,356 --> 00:03:51,356 Speaker 1: because you're right, I was forty. I dated a fair amount, 61 00:03:51,396 --> 00:03:57,196 Speaker 1: but I knew this was someone who I could decide 62 00:03:57,196 --> 00:04:01,516 Speaker 1: to be with you know, forever and be happy. And 63 00:04:01,556 --> 00:04:03,516 Speaker 1: it's just like it's it's it's a it's a leap, 64 00:04:03,596 --> 00:04:08,916 Speaker 1: it's it is. It's it's partly faith, partly intuition, attraction, 65 00:04:09,596 --> 00:04:14,196 Speaker 1: and but it's nothing I've ever questioned from like, like 66 00:04:14,396 --> 00:04:17,396 Speaker 1: within hours. We were engaged two months later and I 67 00:04:17,436 --> 00:04:21,196 Speaker 1: was like, what is taking so long? And I had 68 00:04:21,236 --> 00:04:25,876 Speaker 1: been engaged before really yeah, boxer rings if you know 69 00:04:25,916 --> 00:04:30,076 Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, but it was never even close 70 00:04:30,156 --> 00:04:34,196 Speaker 1: to not happening. Never. I think age is also a 71 00:04:34,236 --> 00:04:37,436 Speaker 1: factor in marriage. I just do. I all my friends 72 00:04:37,516 --> 00:04:40,276 Speaker 1: that got married in their early twenties are not married now. 73 00:04:40,596 --> 00:04:42,876 Speaker 1: You're just not the same person, not all of them, 74 00:04:43,596 --> 00:04:46,996 Speaker 1: the majority. Immediately, one of the things we had to 75 00:04:47,116 --> 00:04:53,716 Speaker 1: learn was how to accommodate respect and change with each other. 76 00:04:54,676 --> 00:04:56,316 Speaker 1: I mean, we're similar in a lot of ways, but 77 00:04:56,356 --> 00:04:59,436 Speaker 1: there's the kind of I am definitely an introvert despite 78 00:04:59,476 --> 00:05:04,116 Speaker 1: my job and like being out socially and all that. 79 00:05:04,916 --> 00:05:07,236 Speaker 1: It's hard for not hard for me, but just its 80 00:05:08,036 --> 00:05:12,476 Speaker 1: like he drains me. She gets energy from being with 81 00:05:12,516 --> 00:05:15,396 Speaker 1: these people. Yea, And it took us we should have 82 00:05:15,396 --> 00:05:17,916 Speaker 1: gotten married. It's one of those things in life of 83 00:05:17,956 --> 00:05:20,156 Speaker 1: the party. You know, for me that's been great because 84 00:05:20,156 --> 00:05:22,196 Speaker 1: it's opened up a different side of myself. I think 85 00:05:22,236 --> 00:05:28,356 Speaker 1: you've probably also gotten more in touch with your introverted side. Yeah, definitely. 86 00:05:28,636 --> 00:05:30,876 Speaker 1: I mean our kids have mixes of both. I'll give 87 00:05:30,916 --> 00:05:34,676 Speaker 1: you an example. When we were first married, we would 88 00:05:34,796 --> 00:05:37,396 Speaker 1: argue because we would go to an event, a party 89 00:05:37,956 --> 00:05:39,756 Speaker 1: would take me an hour to get out the door 90 00:05:39,756 --> 00:05:42,956 Speaker 1: because I talk and talk and say goodbye, and George 91 00:05:42,956 --> 00:05:45,956 Speaker 1: would be sweating, you know, by the front door. He 92 00:05:46,076 --> 00:05:50,596 Speaker 1: had the God it goes. And now I not only 93 00:05:50,636 --> 00:05:53,236 Speaker 1: do I completely understand that, I even know when he 94 00:05:53,276 --> 00:05:55,916 Speaker 1: looks at me like we're out the door, no discussion, 95 00:05:55,956 --> 00:05:58,676 Speaker 1: I don't even say goodbye. And we've also learned you 96 00:05:58,716 --> 00:06:00,796 Speaker 1: don't have to do everything together, Like when if I 97 00:06:00,836 --> 00:06:02,796 Speaker 1: don't want to go to something, it's not a reflection 98 00:06:02,796 --> 00:06:05,436 Speaker 1: on you. No, Yeah, that's that's a big thing we've 99 00:06:05,716 --> 00:06:08,876 Speaker 1: We've had to come to that because Phil doesn't want 100 00:06:08,876 --> 00:06:11,556 Speaker 1: to go to every fundraiser for Saint Jude Children's Research, 101 00:06:13,316 --> 00:06:16,796 Speaker 1: which I drew nine thousand a year, and I at 102 00:06:16,796 --> 00:06:19,436 Speaker 1: first I said, you have to come, And then after 103 00:06:19,436 --> 00:06:22,236 Speaker 1: a while I thought, why does he have to? Really? 104 00:06:22,476 --> 00:06:26,036 Speaker 1: Where was he go. I've started to realize that when 105 00:06:26,076 --> 00:06:30,676 Speaker 1: I married Marlow, I married a hospital Somewhere. During the 106 00:06:30,716 --> 00:06:34,516 Speaker 1: reception of our wedding, Danny stood up. My knew father 107 00:06:34,556 --> 00:06:36,916 Speaker 1: in law stood up on her wedding. You said, I 108 00:06:37,036 --> 00:06:42,316 Speaker 1: haven't lost a daughter, I've gained a fundraiser, and he did, 109 00:06:42,516 --> 00:06:45,796 Speaker 1: and he had been on the show a couple of times. Yeah, 110 00:06:46,036 --> 00:06:48,636 Speaker 1: we got along very well, and I got along very 111 00:06:48,636 --> 00:06:54,436 Speaker 1: well with her mother, an Italian who didn't like Irish people. Well, well, 112 00:06:54,436 --> 00:06:59,236 Speaker 1: that's another interesting thing about marriage too, is that you know, 113 00:07:00,116 --> 00:07:03,116 Speaker 1: if he had married a Greek Orthodox, that would have 114 00:07:03,276 --> 00:07:07,356 Speaker 1: been the jackpot. I just slid in. But I had 115 00:07:07,396 --> 00:07:10,276 Speaker 1: to charm them. But what are you do? You have 116 00:07:10,276 --> 00:07:14,676 Speaker 1: a faith of your own. I'm a pure wasp. Mother's 117 00:07:14,756 --> 00:07:18,556 Speaker 1: name is Muffie Mayflower wasp. But also we I mean 118 00:07:18,596 --> 00:07:23,196 Speaker 1: it's we're also lucky in that way. We've never had 119 00:07:23,436 --> 00:07:26,316 Speaker 1: in law issues, except for one fight over the wedding. 120 00:07:27,236 --> 00:07:31,956 Speaker 1: What was the fight. Well, his mother is a very 121 00:07:31,956 --> 00:07:36,156 Speaker 1: strong minded Greek woman. My mother was social secretary of 122 00:07:36,156 --> 00:07:39,956 Speaker 1: the Reagan White House six feet tall. So when we 123 00:07:39,996 --> 00:07:43,356 Speaker 1: decided to get married, it was very clear that these 124 00:07:43,396 --> 00:07:47,516 Speaker 1: two women were going to dominate the planning, and we 125 00:07:47,676 --> 00:07:51,436 Speaker 1: said have fun. Our feeling was we wanted to marry 126 00:07:51,436 --> 00:07:54,236 Speaker 1: each other. We're not going to get I was not 127 00:07:54,316 --> 00:07:56,316 Speaker 1: a girl who had a vision board about what my 128 00:07:56,356 --> 00:07:58,916 Speaker 1: wedding was going to look like. So I've said fine, 129 00:07:59,196 --> 00:08:03,116 Speaker 1: And it was a dog fight those two. So how 130 00:08:03,156 --> 00:08:07,956 Speaker 1: do you two fight? We fight, not but how constructively 131 00:08:08,556 --> 00:08:10,756 Speaker 1: we didn't use too I had a tendency to be 132 00:08:10,876 --> 00:08:13,956 Speaker 1: a meaner fighter, but you well, yeah, you're definitely a 133 00:08:13,956 --> 00:08:18,556 Speaker 1: meanor fighter. But that's you know, that's good to learn 134 00:08:19,196 --> 00:08:22,436 Speaker 1: how to navigate that as well. Right, she can be 135 00:08:22,436 --> 00:08:25,236 Speaker 1: a little more of a louder fighter. I'm a little 136 00:08:25,236 --> 00:08:29,156 Speaker 1: bit more persistent on making sure the conversation is truly resolved. 137 00:08:29,556 --> 00:08:32,956 Speaker 1: The thing that we've realized what the friends that we 138 00:08:33,036 --> 00:08:35,196 Speaker 1: know that don't make it is they don't know how 139 00:08:35,236 --> 00:08:37,156 Speaker 1: to come back. But to come back, you actually have 140 00:08:37,196 --> 00:08:39,716 Speaker 1: to go through why you have to finish it. You 141 00:08:39,716 --> 00:08:43,596 Speaker 1: have to just make sure you're actually communicating everything you 142 00:08:43,636 --> 00:08:45,956 Speaker 1: need to communicate. And that's the only way. You can't 143 00:08:45,956 --> 00:08:48,356 Speaker 1: just let it. You just can't push it down, right. 144 00:08:48,556 --> 00:08:52,956 Speaker 1: And also you hear from other couples that didn't make it. 145 00:08:53,756 --> 00:08:57,756 Speaker 1: They had fights and they would spend days not speaking 146 00:08:57,756 --> 00:09:01,756 Speaker 1: to each other and then soon that kind of cannot 147 00:09:01,756 --> 00:09:05,196 Speaker 1: imagine that. I can't either. We've had fights till the 148 00:09:05,236 --> 00:09:08,196 Speaker 1: sun came up, till we resolved. It wasn't good for 149 00:09:08,236 --> 00:09:11,556 Speaker 1: the guy who was interviewing that morning. And was that 150 00:09:11,676 --> 00:09:13,716 Speaker 1: when you first got married or you still could do that, 151 00:09:13,876 --> 00:09:16,676 Speaker 1: the timeline is definitely shorter. Yeah, but we always end 152 00:09:16,676 --> 00:09:20,916 Speaker 1: our fight by having sex generally. Yeah, I mean that's 153 00:09:20,916 --> 00:09:24,836 Speaker 1: how you that's perfect. You have to really end it. Yeah. 154 00:09:24,876 --> 00:09:29,196 Speaker 1: Well that's what a memo said about there's only one 155 00:09:29,236 --> 00:09:32,196 Speaker 1: way out of a bad fight, and that's makeup sex. Yeah, 156 00:09:32,196 --> 00:09:34,876 Speaker 1: it's essential. It does, it does make it go away. 157 00:09:35,076 --> 00:09:37,916 Speaker 1: It kind of think, oh, what was that, right? I 158 00:09:37,956 --> 00:09:40,436 Speaker 1: mean I kind of like, what's happening here? Yeah? Yeah, no, 159 00:09:40,596 --> 00:09:43,876 Speaker 1: I I think so too. And and and the premise 160 00:09:43,916 --> 00:09:46,236 Speaker 1: of each fight is I mean the premise, I mean 161 00:09:46,276 --> 00:09:52,796 Speaker 1: we we also both know we're not going anywhere. That's 162 00:09:52,836 --> 00:09:55,716 Speaker 1: a big one. Too many people go into marriage and 163 00:09:55,756 --> 00:10:00,476 Speaker 1: they think as kind of has an escape clause. Yeah, 164 00:10:00,756 --> 00:10:04,796 Speaker 1: it won't work. You have to believe and know that 165 00:10:04,876 --> 00:10:07,156 Speaker 1: this is and then and I know that, Yeah, I 166 00:10:07,196 --> 00:10:10,916 Speaker 1: guess for some people, so obviously people sometimes get divorced 167 00:10:10,916 --> 00:10:14,916 Speaker 1: for very very good reasons. We start from the premise 168 00:10:14,956 --> 00:10:17,276 Speaker 1: of it's not going to happen, but one of the 169 00:10:17,316 --> 00:10:20,396 Speaker 1: way when you talk about trust, when Phil was divorced. 170 00:10:20,436 --> 00:10:22,316 Speaker 1: When I met him, we were pretty hot and heavy 171 00:10:22,316 --> 00:10:23,716 Speaker 1: and flying to each other in the middle of the 172 00:10:23,796 --> 00:10:26,716 Speaker 1: night and all this crazy stuff. And at one point 173 00:10:26,796 --> 00:10:30,116 Speaker 1: I said to him, you know a sexual glow. Oh 174 00:10:30,156 --> 00:10:32,156 Speaker 1: my god, what would have happened if we'd met when 175 00:10:32,196 --> 00:10:35,996 Speaker 1: you were married? And he said, well, with all due respect, 176 00:10:36,676 --> 00:10:38,796 Speaker 1: nothing would have taken me from my wife and kids. 177 00:10:39,796 --> 00:10:43,156 Speaker 1: And I thought, I can love this man. I can 178 00:10:43,276 --> 00:10:49,516 Speaker 1: love this man who's not bullshitting me. You know he won't. 179 00:10:52,196 --> 00:11:10,116 Speaker 1: We'll have more after a quick break. We're back to 180 00:11:10,196 --> 00:11:14,676 Speaker 1: our conversation with George Stephanopolos and Ali Wentworth. By this 181 00:11:14,756 --> 00:11:18,436 Speaker 1: point we've covered most of the basics, so Marlowe steered 182 00:11:18,476 --> 00:11:21,716 Speaker 1: the conversation to Ali's favorite subject. All right, Well, the 183 00:11:21,756 --> 00:11:24,756 Speaker 1: fun thing about interviewing you two is that you talk 184 00:11:24,836 --> 00:11:32,396 Speaker 1: so much about sex and nobody does. That's great, thank you, No, 185 00:11:32,516 --> 00:11:37,236 Speaker 1: it is. No, it is great because we're well, it's 186 00:11:37,316 --> 00:11:42,916 Speaker 1: not naughty, especially when you're married. Yeah, well, it's never naughty. 187 00:11:42,996 --> 00:11:47,596 Speaker 1: It's it's rare. Yeah, exactly. So when you've written advice 188 00:11:47,636 --> 00:11:52,436 Speaker 1: books and so what is your advice about sex? My 189 00:11:52,516 --> 00:11:57,036 Speaker 1: advice to married couples about sex, Yeah, have it, Yes, 190 00:11:57,556 --> 00:12:01,036 Speaker 1: have it, and have it on a regular basis, because 191 00:12:01,956 --> 00:12:05,276 Speaker 1: I have found in talking to the great many women 192 00:12:05,356 --> 00:12:11,116 Speaker 1: who I have very honest, open relationships with, if you're 193 00:12:11,156 --> 00:12:15,756 Speaker 1: married and you're not having sex, something's wrong. I have 194 00:12:15,876 --> 00:12:18,716 Speaker 1: my girlfriends like, if George is unavailable to me for 195 00:12:18,836 --> 00:12:21,276 Speaker 1: whatever reason, he's working or he just doesn't want to 196 00:12:21,356 --> 00:12:23,356 Speaker 1: chew on the fact that so and so are getting 197 00:12:23,396 --> 00:12:26,876 Speaker 1: divorced and I need a four hour conversation, I go 198 00:12:26,956 --> 00:12:29,316 Speaker 1: to my girlfriends. But the one thing I have with 199 00:12:29,356 --> 00:12:34,756 Speaker 1: my husband is a physical relationship. And I know way 200 00:12:34,796 --> 00:12:37,436 Speaker 1: too many people who you started hearing, yeah, well we 201 00:12:37,516 --> 00:12:40,716 Speaker 1: never have sex, red flag, and then a few years 202 00:12:40,716 --> 00:12:43,236 Speaker 1: go by and then they get divorced or somebody has 203 00:12:43,276 --> 00:12:47,836 Speaker 1: an affair. And I say to my girlfriends, you know, 204 00:12:47,916 --> 00:12:49,756 Speaker 1: if you have the stomach flu, I get it. But 205 00:12:49,916 --> 00:12:52,796 Speaker 1: otherwise you've got to push it. We're all tired, we 206 00:12:52,836 --> 00:12:55,836 Speaker 1: all have kids and lives and careers, and you have 207 00:12:55,916 --> 00:12:58,396 Speaker 1: to push yourself. Alie always makes fun of me because 208 00:12:58,516 --> 00:13:02,516 Speaker 1: I always I am skeptical whenever she talks about all 209 00:13:02,516 --> 00:13:05,836 Speaker 1: these stories she hears about it married couples not having sex. 210 00:13:06,476 --> 00:13:08,796 Speaker 1: I sort of, I mean, obviously people go through periods, 211 00:13:08,796 --> 00:13:13,556 Speaker 1: but I don't sort of don't understand the point. There 212 00:13:13,596 --> 00:13:18,316 Speaker 1: are a sexless marriages more than you think, George maybe. 213 00:13:18,396 --> 00:13:20,916 Speaker 1: And then do they break up, Yes, they break up. 214 00:13:20,956 --> 00:13:26,596 Speaker 1: They have affairs, right, yeah, more mostly affairs because you know, 215 00:13:26,636 --> 00:13:29,876 Speaker 1: you sort of need a net to right to actually leave. 216 00:13:29,996 --> 00:13:34,276 Speaker 1: But it's it's amazing, and it's amazing how many couples 217 00:13:34,356 --> 00:13:37,276 Speaker 1: tolerate it and for how long they tolerate it for. 218 00:13:37,596 --> 00:13:41,596 Speaker 1: But guys don't talk about it, do they not? Really? Yeah? No, 219 00:13:41,636 --> 00:13:43,516 Speaker 1: I mean like women will say I'm not having or 220 00:13:43,556 --> 00:13:45,956 Speaker 1: I'm having or it's really great or whatever. I mean, 221 00:13:45,996 --> 00:13:48,196 Speaker 1: we we not only say are you having it or 222 00:13:48,196 --> 00:13:50,236 Speaker 1: you're not having it? What kind of problems are you having? 223 00:13:50,276 --> 00:13:54,996 Speaker 1: And right now everybody's in menopause, so everybody's coconut oil, 224 00:13:55,036 --> 00:13:58,796 Speaker 1: coconut oil, coconut oil. I mean people girlfriends help each other, 225 00:13:58,956 --> 00:14:01,436 Speaker 1: you know, or no, But I mean that this is 226 00:14:01,436 --> 00:14:03,756 Speaker 1: the stuff that people want to know about it. One 227 00:14:03,756 --> 00:14:06,676 Speaker 1: of the things marriage is about, obviously, is sex. One 228 00:14:06,676 --> 00:14:09,356 Speaker 1: of the things marriage is about is trust. No, but see, 229 00:14:09,356 --> 00:14:13,036 Speaker 1: I think all of it, it all sends from this 230 00:14:13,116 --> 00:14:16,556 Speaker 1: one place, which is people say to me all the time, 231 00:14:16,796 --> 00:14:18,636 Speaker 1: what is a secret to your marriage? You and George 232 00:14:18,636 --> 00:14:21,236 Speaker 1: are so different. I don't get it. People in the 233 00:14:21,236 --> 00:14:23,356 Speaker 1: back room of our wedding we're making bets on how 234 00:14:23,356 --> 00:14:27,716 Speaker 1: long it was going to last. And I don't know why. 235 00:14:27,836 --> 00:14:30,836 Speaker 1: But you know, eighteen years later, he walks in the 236 00:14:30,876 --> 00:14:34,116 Speaker 1: door from work and I'm just as attracted to him 237 00:14:34,156 --> 00:14:36,156 Speaker 1: as I was the first week we were dating. I 238 00:14:36,196 --> 00:14:40,796 Speaker 1: just I go, look at that sexy man. I'm so sweet. 239 00:14:41,196 --> 00:14:43,076 Speaker 1: All the time, I'm mad at you, and I'm not 240 00:14:43,156 --> 00:14:45,396 Speaker 1: going to let you know that. But no, but when 241 00:14:45,396 --> 00:14:47,396 Speaker 1: Phil goes away or I go away and we're going 242 00:14:47,436 --> 00:14:50,996 Speaker 1: to get back together, I'm excited. I'm fixing up. Yeah. Yeah, 243 00:14:51,076 --> 00:14:54,476 Speaker 1: I mean I think I hope you feel the same. Yes, 244 00:14:55,356 --> 00:14:58,636 Speaker 1: talk back, But I mean I think that it starts 245 00:14:58,676 --> 00:15:01,076 Speaker 1: with that, and then the sex is around that. And 246 00:15:01,516 --> 00:15:04,716 Speaker 1: I think the trust. Trust is a huge thing. Of course, 247 00:15:04,836 --> 00:15:06,996 Speaker 1: because it hasn't in a question is like I said, 248 00:15:06,996 --> 00:15:10,316 Speaker 1: it's just lucky. No. In fact, when people have affairs 249 00:15:10,396 --> 00:15:15,796 Speaker 1: or marriages break down or break up. I'll say to George, 250 00:15:16,196 --> 00:15:18,356 Speaker 1: you would never have an affair, and we both start laughing. 251 00:15:18,756 --> 00:15:20,956 Speaker 1: Like if somebody came to me and said, your husband's 252 00:15:21,036 --> 00:15:23,556 Speaker 1: cheating on you, I would laugh. That would be my 253 00:15:23,596 --> 00:15:27,396 Speaker 1: first reaction. Absolutely not, no way, it's not. It's just 254 00:15:27,516 --> 00:15:31,116 Speaker 1: not in his nature. But but how do you know that? 255 00:15:31,116 --> 00:15:34,076 Speaker 1: That's the thing. I feel the same way about Phil. 256 00:15:34,116 --> 00:15:37,476 Speaker 1: In fact, Phil's producers once said that when a woman 257 00:15:37,516 --> 00:15:40,196 Speaker 1: comes on to Phil, he's not doesn't really realize it. 258 00:15:40,796 --> 00:15:44,036 Speaker 1: That's just who he is. He's not there. George realizes it. 259 00:15:44,116 --> 00:15:47,476 Speaker 1: He just he just shuts it down. He just there's 260 00:15:47,556 --> 00:15:50,876 Speaker 1: no there's nothing back. But I'm an actress though, if 261 00:15:50,876 --> 00:15:54,796 Speaker 1: someone flirts back to me, I go, oh great, But 262 00:15:54,956 --> 00:15:56,836 Speaker 1: what do you do when somebody comes on to you? 263 00:15:56,876 --> 00:16:00,236 Speaker 1: I mean, do you say something or do you nobody's 264 00:16:00,276 --> 00:16:02,316 Speaker 1: that explicit? You have a wedding ring, right, because some 265 00:16:02,396 --> 00:16:04,596 Speaker 1: women don't wear wedding mans, which I think is really 266 00:16:05,196 --> 00:16:08,236 Speaker 1: like that's just yeah, like, look, I maybe I am available, 267 00:16:08,396 --> 00:16:10,636 Speaker 1: you know, but I mean I guess I'm just so 268 00:16:11,156 --> 00:16:14,756 Speaker 1: sometimes it makes them even more wanted when they stand on. Yeah, 269 00:16:14,756 --> 00:16:17,036 Speaker 1: women think it's a chance. I don't think. I don't 270 00:16:17,036 --> 00:16:19,476 Speaker 1: think there's any part of me that invites it. Marlo 271 00:16:19,556 --> 00:16:25,436 Speaker 1: bought a wedding band from me. It's six feet wide. 272 00:16:25,916 --> 00:16:32,596 Speaker 1: It's actually no mistake at all. And if a woman 273 00:16:32,636 --> 00:16:35,916 Speaker 1: gets too close to me, there's a When he was 274 00:16:35,916 --> 00:16:37,316 Speaker 1: on the year, I used to love that, he'd have 275 00:16:37,356 --> 00:16:43,556 Speaker 1: the microphone in his hand, this huge gold thing. Yeah hello, yeah, okay, 276 00:16:44,676 --> 00:16:48,076 Speaker 1: did you ever go to it? Never went to marriage counseling? Now, yeah, 277 00:16:48,356 --> 00:16:51,796 Speaker 1: I have nothing against it, but yeah, yeah, we Yeah, 278 00:16:51,796 --> 00:16:54,876 Speaker 1: we've been pretty I mean pretty good at figuring out 279 00:16:54,876 --> 00:16:56,916 Speaker 1: on our own. Actually, it's funny, that's what We've probably 280 00:16:57,036 --> 00:16:59,716 Speaker 1: ended three fights like that though. What put that card 281 00:16:59,716 --> 00:17:03,236 Speaker 1: on the table. Let's go to counseling, and that forces 282 00:17:03,316 --> 00:17:05,196 Speaker 1: us to do it ourselves. I do it, I say it. 283 00:17:06,116 --> 00:17:11,156 Speaker 1: But do you ever use the I'm leaving hardy people 284 00:17:11,236 --> 00:17:13,476 Speaker 1: do that? I know that's a scary car. And if 285 00:17:13,516 --> 00:17:16,676 Speaker 1: you have high abandonment like me, that could that has 286 00:17:17,276 --> 00:17:21,676 Speaker 1: significant repercussion. If you say, well, we're going to get divorced, 287 00:17:21,716 --> 00:17:23,676 Speaker 1: then I'll go have an affair because I think we're 288 00:17:23,676 --> 00:17:26,796 Speaker 1: getting divorced and I have to get my next because 289 00:17:26,836 --> 00:17:29,356 Speaker 1: I have abandonment. And then you say I'm just kidding, 290 00:17:29,356 --> 00:17:31,276 Speaker 1: and I go, oh, I already had an affair. Now 291 00:17:31,316 --> 00:17:35,836 Speaker 1: I am leaving you. It's a messy. See if there's anything, 292 00:17:35,876 --> 00:17:41,076 Speaker 1: oh stress, I mean with us, we used to if 293 00:17:41,116 --> 00:17:44,076 Speaker 1: one of us panicked, the other one would panic. Also 294 00:17:44,716 --> 00:17:48,236 Speaker 1: we had to learn not to go crazy at the 295 00:17:48,236 --> 00:17:50,636 Speaker 1: same time. Oh no, I think we if one of 296 00:17:50,716 --> 00:17:53,316 Speaker 1: us is panicking, the other one doesn't. Yeah, pretty much. 297 00:17:53,356 --> 00:17:56,716 Speaker 1: If he's panicking, let's say over a job thing, I know, 298 00:17:56,916 --> 00:18:01,876 Speaker 1: just a quiet down at home. Well, Phil does something 299 00:18:01,916 --> 00:18:04,796 Speaker 1: that just kills me. If he has a hurt look 300 00:18:04,836 --> 00:18:09,476 Speaker 1: on his face, I'm just absolutely mother Teresa, I just 301 00:18:09,516 --> 00:18:12,676 Speaker 1: will do anything. I'll go out and pick up lepers. 302 00:18:12,676 --> 00:18:15,796 Speaker 1: I'll do anything I can to get that look not 303 00:18:15,876 --> 00:18:17,876 Speaker 1: to be there. Yeah. And I do that with the 304 00:18:17,956 --> 00:18:20,236 Speaker 1: kids too. If I see, if I see he's going 305 00:18:20,276 --> 00:18:23,116 Speaker 1: through a hard time, I will say to them, put 306 00:18:23,116 --> 00:18:26,316 Speaker 1: all your bitchiness in a box. It'll be nice to dad. 307 00:18:26,596 --> 00:18:29,596 Speaker 1: That's nice to daddy. Make daddy a card, be nice 308 00:18:29,596 --> 00:18:33,476 Speaker 1: to daddy. Exactly what do you think is the biggest 309 00:18:33,556 --> 00:18:37,636 Speaker 1: challenge you've had to face. We've been so lucky. I 310 00:18:37,716 --> 00:18:40,916 Speaker 1: think there are many doors you have to go through, 311 00:18:41,076 --> 00:18:44,076 Speaker 1: and the you know, the first one is how do 312 00:18:44,156 --> 00:18:47,676 Speaker 1: we co exist together? But you never know when you 313 00:18:47,716 --> 00:18:50,156 Speaker 1: marry somebody what kind of parent they're going to be, 314 00:18:50,556 --> 00:18:52,836 Speaker 1: you know, So then you go through that door and 315 00:18:52,876 --> 00:18:56,396 Speaker 1: then then becomes just the life stuff. And we have 316 00:18:56,476 --> 00:18:59,316 Speaker 1: a teenage daughter who's about to have big surgery, and 317 00:18:59,396 --> 00:19:01,996 Speaker 1: so we're going to sort of be a solid couple 318 00:19:02,036 --> 00:19:05,556 Speaker 1: together to help her get through this period. So I 319 00:19:05,676 --> 00:19:08,516 Speaker 1: know our marriage well enough to know exactly what it's 320 00:19:08,556 --> 00:19:13,516 Speaker 1: going to look like. His strengths are to be the 321 00:19:13,516 --> 00:19:16,116 Speaker 1: problem solver to check him with the surgeon, and you know, 322 00:19:16,196 --> 00:19:18,796 Speaker 1: he'll be that guy and I'll be does she have 323 00:19:18,836 --> 00:19:21,276 Speaker 1: a blanket? And I'll do the nurturing stuff, and then 324 00:19:21,316 --> 00:19:23,516 Speaker 1: he'll know when I need a little comfort, and I'll 325 00:19:23,516 --> 00:19:25,876 Speaker 1: know when he's slightly freaked out by seeing his daughter 326 00:19:25,876 --> 00:19:28,756 Speaker 1: in this condition. And we know how to do all that. Now, 327 00:19:28,756 --> 00:19:30,476 Speaker 1: we know the kind of the dance and we know 328 00:19:30,556 --> 00:19:34,916 Speaker 1: the needs, and so you know, God forbid, bigger mountains 329 00:19:34,996 --> 00:19:37,436 Speaker 1: are ahead of us. I know what I can rely 330 00:19:37,476 --> 00:19:39,596 Speaker 1: on him for. I know, and he knows what he 331 00:19:39,636 --> 00:19:44,276 Speaker 1: can for me. That's great. I once took my son 332 00:19:44,356 --> 00:19:47,076 Speaker 1: to baseball practice, and then I went to pick him up. 333 00:19:47,196 --> 00:19:49,876 Speaker 1: He got in the car on the front seat, closed 334 00:19:49,916 --> 00:19:54,436 Speaker 1: the door and he said, I get cut. I'm telling you. 335 00:19:54,556 --> 00:19:57,516 Speaker 1: I mean it was like an arrow in my heart. 336 00:19:57,956 --> 00:20:00,636 Speaker 1: And I started talking, Oh, yeah, I got cut when 337 00:20:00,676 --> 00:20:03,556 Speaker 1: I was you. I don't worry about it. I don't 338 00:20:03,556 --> 00:20:06,636 Speaker 1: know what the hell I said. Now, obviously getting cut 339 00:20:06,676 --> 00:20:09,236 Speaker 1: from a baseball team is not the worst thing it 340 00:20:09,236 --> 00:20:12,356 Speaker 1: can happen. It is at the time, it is. Yeah, 341 00:20:12,396 --> 00:20:15,316 Speaker 1: we had something like that just before you guys came here, 342 00:20:14,836 --> 00:20:18,316 Speaker 1: our daughter. You know, this typical middle school, high school 343 00:20:18,316 --> 00:20:20,556 Speaker 1: stuff about who's having a party, who's got to invite, 344 00:20:20,556 --> 00:20:23,036 Speaker 1: who didn't get invited, And the truth is, when it's 345 00:20:23,036 --> 00:20:26,476 Speaker 1: your daughter, it's like, it is heartbreaking. And then our 346 00:20:26,516 --> 00:20:29,156 Speaker 1: conversation that we do, what do we do? What do 347 00:20:29,156 --> 00:20:30,596 Speaker 1: we say? You know yet? How do you keep your 348 00:20:30,596 --> 00:20:33,116 Speaker 1: distance from it? How do you have to let her 349 00:20:33,956 --> 00:20:37,316 Speaker 1: learn from it? And you have to sort of just 350 00:20:37,396 --> 00:20:40,876 Speaker 1: sit there while she cries? Oh, she cries. And all 351 00:20:40,916 --> 00:20:42,916 Speaker 1: I want to do is go find that girl that's 352 00:20:43,396 --> 00:20:46,276 Speaker 1: already inviting all her friends except her killer. And I 353 00:20:46,276 --> 00:20:48,996 Speaker 1: have to reminder she can't do that, all right. I 354 00:20:49,116 --> 00:20:50,916 Speaker 1: texted him, I said, do I call the mother? And 355 00:20:50,916 --> 00:20:53,796 Speaker 1: he said no, And I trust. I think he's right 356 00:20:53,876 --> 00:20:56,196 Speaker 1: and you know, but that's right. How we do it? 357 00:20:56,876 --> 00:21:01,796 Speaker 1: What would you pass on to, you know, to people 358 00:21:02,116 --> 00:21:05,476 Speaker 1: about to be married. There's a lot of hard stuff 359 00:21:05,476 --> 00:21:08,436 Speaker 1: that happens in life. We have to celebrate the good stuff. 360 00:21:08,476 --> 00:21:13,276 Speaker 1: You know, we have, you get you know, your contract 361 00:21:13,476 --> 00:21:15,756 Speaker 1: gets renewed. Let's celebrate it. We don't have to be 362 00:21:15,836 --> 00:21:18,156 Speaker 1: obnoxious about it. Could just be the four of us, 363 00:21:18,156 --> 00:21:19,956 Speaker 1: but like, let me make a cake and the kids 364 00:21:19,956 --> 00:21:22,316 Speaker 1: will stick some Eminem's on it and say good for you. 365 00:21:24,076 --> 00:21:26,476 Speaker 1: And I mean more than birthdays and stuff. I mean, 366 00:21:27,076 --> 00:21:31,076 Speaker 1: you know, special things, and you know, in our anniversary, 367 00:21:31,116 --> 00:21:33,956 Speaker 1: I don't like it to be taken lightly. I don't 368 00:21:34,116 --> 00:21:38,236 Speaker 1: want a diamond necklace or a you know, some expensive painting. 369 00:21:38,356 --> 00:21:40,396 Speaker 1: I want the two of us just to we write, 370 00:21:41,276 --> 00:21:43,236 Speaker 1: you know, letters to each other. But I want us 371 00:21:43,276 --> 00:21:46,636 Speaker 1: to say, like, hey, it's your eighteen, look at us. 372 00:21:46,716 --> 00:21:48,956 Speaker 1: I still love you. You know that those moments are 373 00:21:48,996 --> 00:21:52,796 Speaker 1: not to be sort of tossed aside. I think the 374 00:21:52,836 --> 00:21:55,796 Speaker 1: biggest thing, the thing I would think of, don't be afraid. 375 00:21:55,876 --> 00:22:01,836 Speaker 1: I mean, let it disrupt your life. By definition, that's 376 00:22:01,836 --> 00:22:04,556 Speaker 1: what you're doing, and it's that's going to happen all 377 00:22:04,596 --> 00:22:07,996 Speaker 1: the time. Be open to the changes that being married 378 00:22:08,036 --> 00:22:10,956 Speaker 1: or to bring you every single day gets. You're right. 379 00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:13,236 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know sure this is all guys, 380 00:22:13,276 --> 00:22:15,396 Speaker 1: but I tend to be more creature of habit, and 381 00:22:16,196 --> 00:22:18,036 Speaker 1: he gets set in your ways and you have to 382 00:22:18,156 --> 00:22:22,596 Speaker 1: let kind of a lot of things just happen every day. 383 00:22:22,836 --> 00:22:26,836 Speaker 1: Let the chaos in. If you're about to get married, 384 00:22:27,276 --> 00:22:31,956 Speaker 1: if you have any pangs of hesitation, listen to them. 385 00:22:32,076 --> 00:22:36,796 Speaker 1: I have two friends who were about to get married 386 00:22:36,836 --> 00:22:41,276 Speaker 1: and had that feeling of dread. One of them cried 387 00:22:41,356 --> 00:22:43,716 Speaker 1: hysterically all the way to the church, and I was 388 00:22:43,756 --> 00:22:47,036 Speaker 1: in the car with her, and it wasn't crying like 389 00:22:47,116 --> 00:22:49,276 Speaker 1: I'm getting married. It was it was as if she 390 00:22:49,396 --> 00:22:51,836 Speaker 1: was going to be hunk in the village square, just 391 00:22:52,196 --> 00:22:54,956 Speaker 1: hysterically crying. And I kept saying to her, you know, 392 00:22:54,956 --> 00:22:57,556 Speaker 1: we can turn the car around. I agree with you. 393 00:22:57,316 --> 00:22:59,636 Speaker 1: If you if you have if there's anything holding you back, 394 00:23:00,356 --> 00:23:02,396 Speaker 1: listen to it. And then the flip side of that 395 00:23:02,556 --> 00:23:07,076 Speaker 1: is remember how you feel this day every single day. 396 00:23:07,116 --> 00:23:10,516 Speaker 1: Try to at some point remember that, because there are 397 00:23:10,596 --> 00:23:12,676 Speaker 1: going to be a lot of times when you remember 398 00:23:12,676 --> 00:23:15,556 Speaker 1: how you feel on the wedding day. Yeah, remember remember 399 00:23:15,596 --> 00:23:17,996 Speaker 1: how you feel this day, why you're doing it today, 400 00:23:18,156 --> 00:23:20,276 Speaker 1: who you're doing it with, what you love about that? 401 00:23:20,676 --> 00:23:24,476 Speaker 1: Did your friends? Mary? No? And in fact, three kids later, 402 00:23:24,836 --> 00:23:27,156 Speaker 1: she says I never should have married him. Oh God, 403 00:23:27,316 --> 00:23:28,796 Speaker 1: I said I could have told you that in the 404 00:23:28,836 --> 00:23:32,996 Speaker 1: car ride over there. Do you think that you've changed 405 00:23:33,036 --> 00:23:38,196 Speaker 1: a great deal since you're getting married. I think I've 406 00:23:38,996 --> 00:23:42,356 Speaker 1: a much richer, fuller person for marrying him. Oh, I 407 00:23:42,356 --> 00:23:44,196 Speaker 1: think you've definitely changed. I mean, it's hard to know 408 00:23:44,236 --> 00:23:48,236 Speaker 1: exactly how, because it just happens every single day. I'm 409 00:23:48,276 --> 00:23:53,316 Speaker 1: definitely better preparing him. Yeah, I got an anchor. He 410 00:23:54,156 --> 00:23:58,636 Speaker 1: doesn't question himself a lot. He's he's solid, has more 411 00:23:58,636 --> 00:24:02,196 Speaker 1: integrity than anybody I've ever met. And for me, that's 412 00:24:02,236 --> 00:24:07,556 Speaker 1: incredibly grounding. She brings all of life into the house, everything, 413 00:24:08,636 --> 00:24:13,076 Speaker 1: a whole world of beautiful stuff and friends and family, 414 00:24:13,116 --> 00:24:16,996 Speaker 1: and it's like it's opening up in Tira Vista for you. 415 00:24:17,036 --> 00:24:24,036 Speaker 1: For me, that's the very sexy George Stephanopolis and Ali Wentworth. 416 00:24:24,196 --> 00:24:27,316 Speaker 1: They are such an entertaining couple they should charge people 417 00:24:27,396 --> 00:24:29,996 Speaker 1: just to talk with them. Well, I'm glad we got 418 00:24:30,036 --> 00:24:33,956 Speaker 1: in for free. Until next time. I'm Phil Donahue and 419 00:24:34,036 --> 00:24:37,316 Speaker 1: I'm Marlo Thomas. Thank you, Thank you, guys. You guys 420 00:24:37,316 --> 00:24:41,596 Speaker 1: are great. Double Day is a production of Pushkin Industries. 421 00:24:41,836 --> 00:24:45,196 Speaker 1: The show was created by US and produced by Sarah Lilly. 422 00:24:45,836 --> 00:24:50,436 Speaker 1: Michael Bahari is associate producer. Musical adaptations of It Had 423 00:24:50,476 --> 00:24:54,516 Speaker 1: to Be You by Cellwagon, sim Finette, Marlo and I 424 00:24:54,596 --> 00:24:59,716 Speaker 1: are executive producers, along with Mia Lobell and Letal Molad 425 00:25:00,036 --> 00:25:06,676 Speaker 1: from Pushkin. Special thanks to Jacob Wiseberg, Malcolm Gladwell, Heather Faine, 426 00:25:06,796 --> 00:25:13,316 Speaker 1: John Snars, Carl Miglio, Eric Sandler, Emily Rostak, Jason Gambrel, 427 00:25:13,796 --> 00:25:18,276 Speaker 1: Paul Williams, and Bruce Kluker. If you like our show, 428 00:25:18,756 --> 00:25:23,636 Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review. Thanks for listening.