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Speaker 1: I started to realize that not being an expert isn't

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Speaker 1: a liability, it's a real gift. If we don't know

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Speaker 1: something about ourselves at this point in our life, it's

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Speaker 1: probably because it's uncomfortable to know. If you can die

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Speaker 1: before you die, then you can really live. There's a

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Speaker 1: wisdom at death's door. I thought I was insane. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know what to do because there was

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Speaker 1: no internet. I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like everything is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat.

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Speaker 1: I'm a human first and a licensed therapist second. And

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Speaker 1: right now I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope

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Speaker 1: encourage you to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,

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Speaker 1: and the world around you. Welcome to You Need Therapy.

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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to the new episode of You

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Speaker 1: Need Therapy podcast. My name is Kat, I am the host.

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Speaker 1: And quick reminder up top that although this podcast is

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Speaker 1: hosted by a therapist, it does not serve as a

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Speaker 1: replacement or a substitute for any actual mental health services. However,

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Speaker 1: we always hope that it has the ability to help you.

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Speaker 1: So today's a solo episode. It's just me, and we're

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Speaker 1: actually talking about something that I was not prepared to

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Speaker 1: talk about this morning. When I came to the office

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Speaker 1: to record, I had planned a whole other episode. But

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Speaker 1: I got to the office, opened up my email, saw

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Speaker 1: this email from the people that I used to pay

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Speaker 1: my stonent loans to. I ended up on that website,

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Speaker 1: started poking around and started feelings and feelings about just

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Speaker 1: student loans in general and my own experience with them.

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Speaker 1: And back in twenty twelve when I went to Gratz

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Speaker 1: schoo I started taking out student loans and took out

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Speaker 1: a lot of student loans over the course of three

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Speaker 1: years in order to pay for my master's degree. This

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Speaker 1: is a degree that would and does allow me to

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Speaker 1: offer quality and mental health care as a licensed therapist

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Speaker 1: to people in our community, my community, specifically in Tennessee,

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Speaker 1: and this is a field that at the time that

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Speaker 1: I went to school, the median salary in Tennessee was

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Speaker 1: about forty to forty five thousand dollars, So not a

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Speaker 1: get rich quick kind of goal was in mind at

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Speaker 1: the time for me at all. And full disclosure, I

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Speaker 1: want to be very clear about this. I had no

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Speaker 1: idea what I was getting myself into the concept of

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Speaker 1: student loans was very elusive to me, and I did

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Speaker 1: not grasp the gravity of what it would look like

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Speaker 1: to pay them back, but didn't understand interest. I just

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Speaker 1: I was kind of clueless, and like I said, I

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Speaker 1: didn't get into this field to get rich. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to do something meaningful and helpful, and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to be a therapist. And back then, forty thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: seemed like a dream to me, like, Okay, I could

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Speaker 1: do that. I thought, this is the career I want,

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Speaker 1: and it requires a master's degree. This school is a

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Speaker 1: great school. And actually I first declined to go to

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Speaker 1: Vanderbilt because of how expensive it was. So I was

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Speaker 1: originally enrolled in planning to go to Virginia Tech. I

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Speaker 1: was going to be in their Master of a Marriage

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Speaker 1: and Family therapy program. They had a satellite campus in

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Speaker 1: Falls Church, Virginia, which was about an hour to forty

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Speaker 1: five minutes from some of my family where they live,

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Speaker 1: and it was a little less expensive to go there.

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Speaker 1: So I was getting ready to move in with my

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Speaker 1: grandma when I got a phone call from Vanderbilt offering

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Speaker 1: me an assistant ship, which I ended up being a

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Speaker 1: grad assistant for a research class in one of the

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Speaker 1: departments in the undergraduate where I was in school, and

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Speaker 1: that paid for a good little chunk of my tuition,

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Speaker 1: and it ended up making it a little less expensive

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Speaker 1: to go to Vanderbilt than it would have been to

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Speaker 1: go to Virginia tack. So I was being a little

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Speaker 1: as money conscious as I could when it came to

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Speaker 1: choosing a really quality school to go get an education.

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Speaker 1: Fast forward to right after graduation, I met with somebody

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Speaker 1: who I thought would helped me plan how to best

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Speaker 1: pay off my loans. I didn't understand how loans work,

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Speaker 1: and I still don't fully understand them, but I had

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Speaker 1: a lot of questions, and I wanted to be informed,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to take care of myself well and

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Speaker 1: get ahead of this. I wanted to know how much

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Speaker 1: I should be paying each month, and there are so

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Speaker 1: many options different payment plans, and I didn't understand the language,

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Speaker 1: and so I had some questions around that. And then

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Speaker 1: I was contemplating should I work for one of these

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Speaker 1: agencies that are funded by the government, that if I

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Speaker 1: worked there for a certain amount of time, granted you're

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Speaker 1: going to be making a little to no money, and

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Speaker 1: you're going to be very overworked. But at the end

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Speaker 1: of a certain amount of time, sometimes they would forgive

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Speaker 1: your loans or some of the loans had these forgiveness clauses,

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Speaker 1: and I wanted to understand those and how those worked

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Speaker 1: and if I could take advantage of them. I just

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Speaker 1: wanted some information. I thought this person was going to

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Speaker 1: help me. Well, the person who you can probably guess

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Speaker 1: they're demographic by what you're about to hear that they said.

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Speaker 1: The person that I thought was going to help me

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Speaker 1: proceeded to ask me why I thought it was appropriate

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Speaker 1: that they should have to pay back a loan that

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Speaker 1: I took out and couldn't afford to pay back. And

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Speaker 1: I was a little confused by his question. Keep in mind,

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Speaker 1: I'm twenty five, and taxes is not a required class

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Speaker 1: in K through. I was about to say K through eighteen,

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Speaker 1: K through twelve when I am eighteen. It's not required

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Speaker 1: in college, it wasn't required in grads. We didn't get

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Speaker 1: a lot of education on a lot of things that

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Speaker 1: we really should I get some education on. And so well,

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Speaker 1: I think, I said, I think the government pays them

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Speaker 1: or takes on the debt or maybe they just like

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Speaker 1: go away, and again very naive. I didn't understand it,

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Speaker 1: but I was there to try to understand things. But

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Speaker 1: I was quickly brought up to speed on how taxpayers

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Speaker 1: dollars fund the government and hardworking people who don't take

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Speaker 1: out student loans shouldn't be responsible for paying back someone

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Speaker 1: else's poor financial decision. It was my responsibility to take

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Speaker 1: responsibility for my poor financial decisions and figure out how

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Speaker 1: to remedy those on my own. Crystal clear on that messaging,

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Speaker 1: because you know, our country doesn't benefit from mental health

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Speaker 1: care professionals, and if only people that could pay for

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Speaker 1: graduate school on their own did so, it definitely wouldn't

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Speaker 1: affect the already insufficient amount of people in this field

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Speaker 1: or make the mental health crisis in our country any

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Speaker 1: worse at all. I didn't say that. I don't even

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Speaker 1: think I thought that in the moment, because I think

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Speaker 1: I blacked out and was just like so taken aback.

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Speaker 1: So at the end of that meeting, he told me,

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Speaker 1: out of the kindness of his heart, he would pay

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Speaker 1: for me to take a Dave Ramsey course. Long story short,

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Speaker 1: I cried a lot after this meeting and didn't ask

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Speaker 1: anyone to help me with anything that had to do

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Speaker 1: with finances until like maybe seven plus years later, which

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Speaker 1: means surprise. No, I did not take the Dave Ramsey course,

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Speaker 1: and I share this story not to say that he

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Speaker 1: was wrong in the sense that loan should be forgiven.

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Speaker 1: I don't think there's a right or wrong answer in

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Speaker 1: that space. There's a lot of opinions that can make

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Speaker 1: a lot of sense. You can make cases for multiple

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Speaker 1: beliefs around that large issue, an issue that I do

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Speaker 1: not have the education in the space to give insight

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Speaker 1: on this podcast. The student loan issue isn't the issue.

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Speaker 1: It sparked this whole idea for me, but it wasn't

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Speaker 1: the issue, the issue that I really want to talk about.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know if Dave Ramsey, if the course

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Speaker 1: would have helped me or not. That's not the point.

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Speaker 1: The point is there's a reason that I didn't ever

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Speaker 1: go to that course, and it's not because I hated

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Speaker 1: Dave Ramsey and didn't think he knew what he was

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Speaker 1: talking about. Back then, I didn't know anything about him.

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Speaker 1: If anything, I probably would have assumed that he was

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Speaker 1: really smart and had all the answers. But I didn't

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Speaker 1: go because I felt stupid. I felt stupid for asking

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Speaker 1: for help, and I would have rather suffered in silence,

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Speaker 1: which ended up in years of avoidance, than ever entered

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Speaker 1: back into a space where I knew shame was waiting

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Speaker 1: for me. And I never regretted my decision to go

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Speaker 1: to school or my decision to take out the loans.

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Speaker 1: That's never crossed my mind. But in those moments and

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Speaker 1: for a long time, I felt very hopeless and very defeated.

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Speaker 1: I felt very misunderstood, and to be honest, I felt

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Speaker 1: like a kid who was in trouble and I was

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Speaker 1: going to be punished, versus an adult who was trying

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Speaker 1: to learn how to best take care of myself. And

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Speaker 1: I know that this experience said I I had was

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Speaker 1: not universal to me, and that there are people all

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Speaker 1: over the place who ask for help and feel very similarly,

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Speaker 1: because people show up protecting themselves and their beliefs versus

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Speaker 1: really being open to helping with what somebody is asking for. Now,

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Speaker 1: at this time, I had just graduated a program that

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Speaker 1: centered around empowering others, where we celebrated those who ask

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Speaker 1: for help and also we got to see that through

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Speaker 1: helping them, they learn how to help themselves, and it

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Speaker 1: creates this cycle of everybody benefiting from us taking the

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Speaker 1: time to help them through and give them some insight

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Speaker 1: and resources in what they're looking for. And I've talked

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Speaker 1: about my experience, my poor experience with a doctor that

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Speaker 1: I used to see on here before. It was a

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Speaker 1: while ago, So I'm going to tell the story for

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Speaker 1: those of you who have not heard it. And I've

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Speaker 1: talked about my experience, my poor experience with a doctor

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Speaker 1: that I used to see on here before. It was

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Speaker 1: a while ago, So I'm going to tell the story

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Speaker 1: for those of you who have not heard it. But

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Speaker 1: I had a doctor for a long time that I

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Speaker 1: think my doctor I had from second grade till I

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Speaker 1: was like twenty eight. She retired. They set me up

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Speaker 1: with another doctor. She referred me to get some tests

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Speaker 1: done because she wanted to check on some things that

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Speaker 1: I had going on. And she ended up quitting or

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Speaker 1: leaving the practice, and so I never was able to

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Speaker 1: get those tests. I needed a referral for those tests.

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Speaker 1: So the new doctor they set me up with, when

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Speaker 1: I went to see them, I said, hey, can you

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Speaker 1: get me a referral for these tests? So and so

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Speaker 1: wanted me to get them done, but I didn't have

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Speaker 1: time to do it before she left, and he was

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Speaker 1: very dismissive and basically said I didn't need to get

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Speaker 1: those tests done and I didn't need to know if

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Speaker 1: I had those issues or not. Well, I can say

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Speaker 1: with confidence that I have grown since I was twenty

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Speaker 1: five and since I had that horrible meeting with that

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Speaker 1: human around my student loans, and my response this time

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Speaker 1: wasn't to ignore my needs and to ignore taking care

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Speaker 1: of myself and go into that little child who feels

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Speaker 1: like they're being punished and just kind of like wants

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Speaker 1: to hide. Instead, I found a new doctor and when

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Speaker 1: I asked her for a referral for the testing, she

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Speaker 1: actually had me come in and talk to her about

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Speaker 1: why it was that I was looking for those tests,

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Speaker 1: and then proceeded to tell me why it would be

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Speaker 1: beneficial to get those tests done and how and if

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Speaker 1: it would impact me if I didn't. Then she said,

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Speaker 1: if you want this information, regardless of all of that,

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Speaker 1: if you want this information, you deserve to have this

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Speaker 1: information about your body. And I know she realized how

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Speaker 1: important it was for me to hear that I'm not

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Speaker 1: even going to pretend like she didn't know what she

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Speaker 1: was doing. It is so important for people to say

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Speaker 1: things like that because of the countless messages we get

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Speaker 1: that say the opposite. And it was so important for

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Speaker 1: me to hear that the time and energy that it

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Speaker 1: would take out of her and other people who would

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Speaker 1: be performing these tests and talking to me about these

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Speaker 1: tests and explaining these tests, the time and energy that

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Speaker 1: it would take for that to be done was okay.

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Speaker 1: And if that was important to me, then I deserve

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Speaker 1: to be able to have those people use energy on me.

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Speaker 1: And I really want to say humans, especially women, and

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Speaker 1: especially I mean any kind of minority. I'm really driving

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Speaker 1: home the women in this, and again, all humans deserve

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Speaker 1: the right to understand what is going on with their body,

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Speaker 1: with their finances, with their car engines. Don't even get

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Speaker 1: me started on how I've been taking advantage of at

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Speaker 1: car shops, which speaks largely to my anxiety around even

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Speaker 1: the small things being done, like getting my oil changed.

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Speaker 1: But like I said, don't get me started on that.

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Speaker 1: We've been sold lies that tell us we can't understand

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Speaker 1: or we won't understand things, so we don't try, or

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Speaker 1: we believe that to be true versus giving us information

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Speaker 1: that allows us to ask questions, so we get the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to understand, so we get the opportunity to take

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Speaker 1: care of ourselves in a way that works for us,

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Speaker 1: not just in a way that benefits one group of

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Speaker 1: people or one person. Now, like I said, I came

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Speaker 1: to my office this morning to record a different podcast.

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Speaker 1: This week's episode was supposed to be on how to

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Speaker 1: disagree with Somebody, which spoiler alert that will be next

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Speaker 1: week's episode, which actually will be a good follow up

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Speaker 1: to this episode when it comes down to it. But

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Speaker 1: when I opened up my email and was taken to

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Speaker 1: this page, I just sat there for a second and

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Speaker 1: was just in shock over how crazy the reality of

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Speaker 1: how much I had paid versus borrowed was to me.

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Speaker 1: Before I even started working on this podcast. I started

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Speaker 1: texting people and I was like, oh my god, you'll

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Speaker 1: never believe this. I don't want to understand. I paid

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Speaker 1: over double what I borrowed, and keep in mind, a

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Speaker 1: chunk of that time there was no interest. So in

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Speaker 1: about five years I accrued enough interest on my loans

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Speaker 1: that they overdoubled while I was paying them the whole time,

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Speaker 1: and not like twenty dollars a month, a huge chunk

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Speaker 1: of money. But again, this podcast is not here to

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Speaker 1: just talk about the craziness of that system. This conversation

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Speaker 1: is not meant to write the wrongs of our government

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Speaker 1: system or offer solutions when it comes to student loan repayment,

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Speaker 1: because I honestly don't have any solutions. I still feel

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Speaker 1: inadequate when it comes to talking about money and finances

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Speaker 1: a lot of times and everything that comes along with that.

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Speaker 1: And although I'm learning and I'm less avoidant, I'm definitely

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Speaker 1: not educated enough on the ins and outs of our

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Speaker 1: financial system to offer helpful feedback or information and to

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Speaker 1: posture an opinion on student loan repayment and everything that

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Speaker 1: comes along with that on this podcast. If I ever

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Speaker 1: do do an episode on that, so help me God,

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Speaker 1: I will have somebody on here that is giving the

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Speaker 1: information versus me, because that's not my lane. I'm bringing

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Speaker 1: this up and this podcast was inspired because I just

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Speaker 1: really want us to be more kind to each other.

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Speaker 1: I want us to think twice before we agree to

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Speaker 1: help somebody as well. You know, we don't have to

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Speaker 1: help people, and being helpful or helping somebody is not

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Speaker 1: so much like this badge of honor that you get

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Speaker 1: to brag about. It's something that we do for the

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Speaker 1: greater good, while we also get to benefit from that. Sure,

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Speaker 1: but you don't have to help when people ask. And

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Speaker 1: if your first instinct is to protect yourself and your resources,

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Speaker 1: be it money, time, energy, etc. Then maybe you just

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Speaker 1: say no. I recently forgot to pay an annual fee

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Speaker 1: for something that resulted in me having to ask Patrick,

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Speaker 1: my fiance's dad future father in law, for help recently.

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Speaker 1: He's a tax accountant, and I told Patrick to tell

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Speaker 1: him that I was really sorry, and I promise I'm

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Speaker 1: not stupid. And we didn't take business classes in therapy school,

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Speaker 1: so I didn't know. And his response was, well, we

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Speaker 1: didn't learn how to be therapists and accounting school either.

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Speaker 1: And I tell you this little baby story because I've

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Speaker 1: never met somebody who has been able to actually bring

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Speaker 1: lasting positive change to themselves or others by the power

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Speaker 1: of shame, and I have met a lot of people

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Speaker 1: who have tried. Patrick's dad didn't say, well, why should

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Speaker 1: I have to help you fix this mistake and take

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Speaker 1: my time and energy for a problem you have because

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Speaker 1: you didn't go to business school. He didn't say that

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Speaker 1: he helped me and then said it's okay. And there's

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Speaker 1: going to be a huge ripple effect in small acts

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Speaker 1: like that. But there's a small benefit that I can

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Speaker 1: already see there is that when somebody shows up to

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Speaker 1: help and allows me to not know and allows me

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Speaker 1: to have made a mistake and allows me to feel

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Speaker 1: like I still am an adequate human even though that happened.

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Speaker 1: I'm also going to be more open to continuing to

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Speaker 1: learn in that space versus be avoidant like I was before, right,

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Speaker 1: And then I can share that information, And I mean,

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Speaker 1: you can just already see how that's going to continue

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Speaker 1: to move others in positive directions far from that one act.

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Speaker 1: And the reality is therapists work in a profession where

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Speaker 1: the cost of training to do our job is disproportionate

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Speaker 1: to what you actually make in doing that job. And

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Speaker 1: if you've ever tried to find a therapist who takes

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Speaker 1: insurance and wondered why it's so freaking hard to do so, well,

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Speaker 1: that ties into one of the reasons that's so difficult,

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Speaker 1: because it's hard to stay afloat. But I think that

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Speaker 1: we would really regret it as a culture if the

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Speaker 1: solution to that problem was, well, then people should stop

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Speaker 1: doing this job. If if you can't afford to go

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Speaker 1: to school and pay for that, then don't do it.

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Speaker 1: Because I know this is not a universal, unique issue

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Speaker 1: to therapy. This is an issue with our educational system.

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Speaker 1: So many things are involved in that. So I don't

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Speaker 1: think that is the issue here because I still want

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Speaker 1: people to be able to utilize the resource of student loans.

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Speaker 1: But what if as a collective culture, we were just

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Speaker 1: more kind to each other and less concerned with how others'

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Speaker 1: issues cause them more problems. I found this account on

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Speaker 1: TikTok a while ago, and I've talked about this video,

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Speaker 1: I know, on Fifth Thing with Amy Brown. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I've talked about it on Unique Therapy, but

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Speaker 1: I found this account on TikTok a while ago of

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Speaker 1: this woman. Her name is cy Wakeman, and she's a speaker,

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Speaker 1: and she I think used to be a therapist, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure, works a lot of businesses and teams,

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Speaker 1: and she talks about how on the back of everybody's

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Speaker 1: badges that she works with, she writes, how can I help?

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Speaker 1: And when people come to her and tattle on what

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Speaker 1: other people in the organization are doing wrong, or how

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Speaker 1: everyone else is creating chaos. She says, Okay, I get it.

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Speaker 1: What did you do to help? And when they say,

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Speaker 1: what do you mean, I'm here telling you, she says, well,

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Speaker 1: so far you've created character assassination. You haven't been very

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Speaker 1: helpful to anybody. And she states that the only relevant question,

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Speaker 1: if we're all on the same team is what can

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Speaker 1: I do to help? Now? The problem these days is

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Speaker 1: it doesn't feel like many of us are on the

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Speaker 1: same team. Our problems are often seen as a result

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Speaker 1: of someone else not cooperating in what we think would

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Speaker 1: be best. But the question is best for who? Best?

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Speaker 1: For me? You the collector like, who best for what?

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Speaker 1: And I don't think the guy who I talk to

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Speaker 1: about my student loans was a bad person or is

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Speaker 1: a bad person. I really don't. I think he probably

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Speaker 1: is really smart, and he probably knows a lot of

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Speaker 1: stuff about things that I know nothing about that I

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Speaker 1: wish I would have had the ability to learn and hear.

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Speaker 1: But in that conversation where I had asked for help,

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Speaker 1: he showed up and appeared more concerned with what I

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Speaker 1: may possibly take from him and how that is wrong

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Speaker 1: and how he wanted to avoid that than anything else. Again,

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Speaker 1: I was naive. I didn't understand what I was doing

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Speaker 1: when I took out those loans, And heck, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: thought it would be really freaking cool if my student

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Speaker 1: loans vanish into thin air. I can take responsibility for

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Speaker 1: that all day long. And I'm not saying my student

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Speaker 1: loans should have vanished. What I am saying is if

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Speaker 1: our first instinct is to protect ourselves and our resources,

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Speaker 1: be at that time, money, etc. I want you to

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Speaker 1: know that you don't have to answer the call. Maybe

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Speaker 1: you just say no. When a functioning system as a

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Speaker 1: hopeless faulty, it's usually not because one person decided to

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Speaker 1: mess it up. It's because that system is somehow running

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Speaker 1: on dysfunction. It's not up to one of us to

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Speaker 1: fix it. In that case, it would be up to

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Speaker 1: the collective effort. And yeah, that might again take time, energy, money,

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Speaker 1: other resources are away from you or me. I guess

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Speaker 1: I just can't come up with an answer to why

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Speaker 1: that is so wrong or bad. We ask for help

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Speaker 1: for different reasons. Sometimes it's because we don't know how

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Speaker 1: to how to do something. Sometimes it's because we literally

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Speaker 1: can't do something alone. Sometimes it's because we messed up.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes it's just because it's a little nicer to not

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Speaker 1: do things alone, or maybe it's just easier, and sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's a combination. Anytime we do so, anytime we show up,

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Speaker 1: when we ask for help, we are choosing to be vulnerable.

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Speaker 1: And if every human who allows themselves to be vulnerable

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Speaker 1: enough to reach out for help is shamed for doing so,

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Speaker 1: eventually asking for help is going to be exp It's

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Speaker 1: going to be a thing of the past. And I

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Speaker 1: would be terrified to live in a world where no

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Speaker 1: one is doing that. So, despite what it might feel like,

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Speaker 1: this podcast, again, is not about my student loans. It's

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Speaker 1: about checking in with ourselves when it comes to how

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Speaker 1: we show up to our friends, our colleagues, our neighbors

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Speaker 1: in need. Let's not assume that they got there because

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Speaker 1: they are dumb, or selfish or irresponsible. Let's assume that

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Speaker 1: they got there because it's part of the human experience

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Speaker 1: to mess up. It's part of the human experience to

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Speaker 1: fail and to be in need of others. It's because

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Speaker 1: we were not created to exist in vacuums by ourselves,

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Speaker 1: and when we attempt to do that, wires get crossed

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Speaker 1: in major ways. When we live by and for ourselves,

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Speaker 1: things get really messy. Whether you want to admit that's

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00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,440
Speaker 1: where the mess comes from or not. This doesn't mean

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Speaker 1: you should ignore your needs. I'm giving people full permission

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Speaker 1: to say I can't show up right now for you.

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Speaker 1: I got to take care of myself. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: to ignore your needs. And this might be a surprise

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Speaker 1: to some of you guys out there, but there is

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Speaker 1: space between in ignoring my needs in only taking care

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Speaker 1: of my needs. And I believe there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: fear that's been clouding our ability to see that space

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Speaker 1: for a long time now. But I just wonder what

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Speaker 1: would shift if we started to really believe that there

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Speaker 1: was gain in our give. And I know we all

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Speaker 1: have experienced this, whether it feels true right now or not.

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Speaker 1: And hear me when I say, I'm not saying this

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Speaker 1: man should have paid my loans. I feel like I've

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Speaker 1: said that one hundred times now or the government, I

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Speaker 1: don't have the answer for that problem. I'm just challenging

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Speaker 1: us to be a little less worried about what we

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Speaker 1: would lose and more open to what we would gain

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Speaker 1: by lending hands to others, and if we aren't in

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Speaker 1: a space to sacrifice a resource, then that's okay. Can

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Speaker 1: move out of the way and let somebody else who

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00:24:03,640 --> 00:24:07,640
Speaker 1: does have the ability to show up instead. So I

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Speaker 1: hope this episode, like always, is helpful in some way,

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Speaker 1: whether it's just you know you're in that student loans

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Speaker 1: are a headache space as well, or you're in that

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Speaker 1: space where you have also felt like a kid and

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Speaker 1: like you got in trouble for trying to take care

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Speaker 1: of yourself. If anything, I hope that the help in

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Speaker 1: this might be that you related to it and that

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Speaker 1: you're not alone in it. So I hope you guys

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Speaker 1: are having the day you need to have. As always,

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Speaker 1: you can email me Katherine at you Need Therapy podcast

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Speaker 1: dot com. You can follow us at You Need Therapy Podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can follow me at cat dot defata, you can

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00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:48,479
Speaker 1: follow my practice at three Quarts Therapy, and you can

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Speaker 1: always reach out and send us a message. Like I said,

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Speaker 1: email us and if you want to, this is me

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Speaker 1: asking for your help. If you are in the space

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Speaker 1: to offer, you know, the thirty seconds of your time

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Speaker 1: to give us a little review of this podcast on

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00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: Apple That would be awesome. You can write a little comment,

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00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: maybe share with how it's been helpful for you, what

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00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: episodes you've loved, because when you do that, it actually

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00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 1: does create a ripple effect. It helps this podcast get

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Speaker 1: seen more and it helps other people trust the podcasts more.

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Speaker 1: So maybe they can take time to listen to it

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Speaker 1: so they can gain something as well. That thirty seconds

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Speaker 1: could give a lot to the world. You never know.

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Speaker 1: So I hope you guys are having the day you

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Speaker 1: need to have and I will be back with you

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Speaker 1: guys on Wednesday. Four Couch Shocks, the episode where I

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Speaker 1: answer questions that you send to me that you can

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Speaker 1: send through that email Katherine Unitherapy podcast dot com. Until then, Bye,