1 00:00:04,038 --> 00:00:07,358 Speaker 1: The Book of Joe podcast is a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:12,958 --> 00:00:15,718 Speaker 1: Hey you're in the right spot. Welcome back to another 3 00:00:15,878 --> 00:00:19,718 Speaker 1: edition of the Book of Joe podcasts. It's me Tom 4 00:00:19,798 --> 00:00:22,918 Speaker 1: Verducci with Joe Madden and Joe. We just got back 5 00:00:22,958 --> 00:00:27,758 Speaker 1: from a wonderful weekend in Savannah, Georgia at the Savannah 6 00:00:27,918 --> 00:00:31,118 Speaker 1: Book Fair, to sell some of our book, The Book 7 00:00:31,118 --> 00:00:33,318 Speaker 1: of Joe, and to meet a bunch of really cool, 8 00:00:33,678 --> 00:00:37,198 Speaker 1: very nice people. What you think of that trip to Savannah, Joe, Yeah, 9 00:00:37,278 --> 00:00:40,598 Speaker 1: that's that's really interesting. I had a blush us like 10 00:00:40,678 --> 00:00:43,398 Speaker 1: you did. Didn't know what to expect going into it. 11 00:00:43,678 --> 00:00:47,358 Speaker 1: First of all, the city Savannah, Oh beautiful, totally smitten man. 12 00:00:47,398 --> 00:00:50,798 Speaker 1: I mean we did. We did a presentation and the 13 00:00:50,918 --> 00:00:53,478 Speaker 1: I think was the Ascension Lutheran Church, an old church 14 00:00:53,518 --> 00:00:56,438 Speaker 1: in the middle of Savannah. So Tommy and I like 15 00:00:56,478 --> 00:00:59,518 Speaker 1: two priests or on the altar facing the congregation, and 16 00:00:59,838 --> 00:01:02,198 Speaker 1: we did a nice job watching your language. By the way, 17 00:01:02,198 --> 00:01:04,478 Speaker 1: I appreciate that. That's it. I really backed off a 18 00:01:04,558 --> 00:01:07,078 Speaker 1: couple of times. But the first thing I brought up 19 00:01:07,078 --> 00:01:09,038 Speaker 1: I was asking if there are there any realtors in 20 00:01:09,038 --> 00:01:12,718 Speaker 1: the audience. I mean, that place is super, super cool, 21 00:01:12,758 --> 00:01:14,958 Speaker 1: and I can't wait to go back with a little 22 00:01:14,998 --> 00:01:17,718 Speaker 1: more time golfing. Golfed up in Hilton Head with my 23 00:01:17,718 --> 00:01:20,638 Speaker 1: buddy mic Life for a couple of days his wife Janey, 24 00:01:20,678 --> 00:01:23,958 Speaker 1: and just had an absolute blast. So anyway, Yeah, it 25 00:01:23,958 --> 00:01:27,078 Speaker 1: was a great experience, well organized, met a ton of 26 00:01:27,598 --> 00:01:29,958 Speaker 1: really cool people. So if we get a chance to 27 00:01:29,958 --> 00:01:33,278 Speaker 1: do it again, absolutely do it again. Yeah, I highly recommended. 28 00:01:33,318 --> 00:01:35,478 Speaker 1: That was my first trip there as well, just kind 29 00:01:35,478 --> 00:01:38,478 Speaker 1: of blown away by the vibe and the atmosphere there. 30 00:01:38,638 --> 00:01:41,158 Speaker 1: It's almost like you're on an old Hollywood movie set 31 00:01:41,678 --> 00:01:45,398 Speaker 1: and you walk everywhere. I found out that they call 32 00:01:45,478 --> 00:01:48,478 Speaker 1: everything a square, like we're asking for directions, and it 33 00:01:48,518 --> 00:01:51,118 Speaker 1: was always well you go through two squares or it's 34 00:01:51,158 --> 00:01:54,878 Speaker 1: three squares away. And apparently I guess as the city 35 00:01:55,078 --> 00:01:57,518 Speaker 1: was growing Joe and people were dying, they would buy 36 00:01:57,798 --> 00:02:01,038 Speaker 1: bury them in graveyards in squares, and as the city 37 00:02:01,078 --> 00:02:03,198 Speaker 1: kept getting bigger, than to keep pushing the limits at 38 00:02:03,198 --> 00:02:06,118 Speaker 1: the square. City grew. So there's all kinds of ghost 39 00:02:06,198 --> 00:02:09,718 Speaker 1: tours there and it's like kind of like going back 40 00:02:09,758 --> 00:02:12,638 Speaker 1: in time. But if you're thirsty, there's plenty of places 41 00:02:12,678 --> 00:02:15,238 Speaker 1: to get a cold beverage. We found that out, you 42 00:02:15,678 --> 00:02:19,158 Speaker 1: will not go thirsty or hungry. It's Avannah, Georgia. We 43 00:02:19,238 --> 00:02:22,478 Speaker 1: saw so many little private tours, like even after you 44 00:02:22,518 --> 00:02:24,598 Speaker 1: had left, I went to a private reception that night 45 00:02:24,638 --> 00:02:28,078 Speaker 1: and coming back, I mean like it's cold, it's late, 46 00:02:28,438 --> 00:02:30,878 Speaker 1: and there's little tours going on in front of cemeteries 47 00:02:30,998 --> 00:02:35,038 Speaker 1: or buildings or churches. Really an incredibly a unique and 48 00:02:35,158 --> 00:02:39,478 Speaker 1: very interesting experience. Yeah, and Southern hospitality, for sure, they 49 00:02:39,558 --> 00:02:42,718 Speaker 1: live up to that reputation. So that brings us to 50 00:02:42,878 --> 00:02:46,918 Speaker 1: our topic this week, talking about kind of a blend 51 00:02:46,958 --> 00:02:50,158 Speaker 1: of the old and the new. Baseball has been in 52 00:02:50,198 --> 00:02:54,158 Speaker 1: a precarious position where it's it's losing some appeal, especially 53 00:02:54,198 --> 00:02:57,798 Speaker 1: two younger fans. So this year the game is going 54 00:02:57,878 --> 00:03:01,878 Speaker 1: to look more different than it has since. Well, I 55 00:03:01,918 --> 00:03:03,518 Speaker 1: think you have to go back to at least the 56 00:03:03,598 --> 00:03:06,238 Speaker 1: start of the DH in nineteen seventy three to find 57 00:03:06,358 --> 00:03:10,158 Speaker 1: last time baseball went through kind of massive changes that 58 00:03:10,238 --> 00:03:13,518 Speaker 1: they are this year. Three big rule changes in brief, 59 00:03:14,038 --> 00:03:17,918 Speaker 1: no more shifts, no more defensive shifts. The bases are bigger, 60 00:03:18,078 --> 00:03:21,278 Speaker 1: three inches wider across, which means the distance between first 61 00:03:21,278 --> 00:03:24,118 Speaker 1: and second, for instance, is four and a half inches shorter, 62 00:03:24,838 --> 00:03:29,198 Speaker 1: and there is now officially a clock in baseball. Baseball 63 00:03:29,198 --> 00:03:32,598 Speaker 1: prefers you call it a pitch timer, but players are 64 00:03:32,638 --> 00:03:35,558 Speaker 1: literally on the clock now, like the play clock in 65 00:03:35,598 --> 00:03:39,798 Speaker 1: the NFL, the shot clock in basketball, to move the 66 00:03:39,838 --> 00:03:44,518 Speaker 1: game along. I am a huge proponent of these changes, 67 00:03:44,838 --> 00:03:48,758 Speaker 1: and we'll get into why. And Joe, my gut feeling 68 00:03:48,838 --> 00:03:51,238 Speaker 1: is you're a guy who he's not a big fan 69 00:03:51,278 --> 00:03:54,158 Speaker 1: of regulations, right, like being told what to do. I'm 70 00:03:54,158 --> 00:03:58,558 Speaker 1: putting boundaries on people and ideas and this maybe I'm 71 00:03:58,598 --> 00:04:00,638 Speaker 1: speaking for you, and I'll let you speak for yourself. 72 00:04:00,638 --> 00:04:03,198 Speaker 1: Of course, maybe this strikes you as something that reaches 73 00:04:03,238 --> 00:04:05,118 Speaker 1: a little too far. How about that? Well, yeah, I 74 00:04:05,118 --> 00:04:07,398 Speaker 1: mean you're right, that's who I am. I grew up 75 00:04:07,398 --> 00:04:09,238 Speaker 1: in the sixties and the seventies. It's in the book 76 00:04:09,358 --> 00:04:13,078 Speaker 1: of Joe. But yeah, but I will say this, I 77 00:04:13,118 --> 00:04:15,638 Speaker 1: do like the pitch timer. I think that was for me, 78 00:04:15,758 --> 00:04:17,758 Speaker 1: that was the one rule that could have been the 79 00:04:17,798 --> 00:04:21,758 Speaker 1: first rule or change that it came down the pike 80 00:04:21,798 --> 00:04:24,518 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago. As opposed to like pretty 81 00:04:24,518 --> 00:04:27,278 Speaker 1: batter minimum, you know, the ghost running all this other 82 00:04:27,318 --> 00:04:29,678 Speaker 1: kind of stuff. I think this one makes the most 83 00:04:29,678 --> 00:04:32,758 Speaker 1: sense to me. Actually, I played with the clock. Way 84 00:04:32,798 --> 00:04:35,158 Speaker 1: back in the day, when I was in Wichita, Kansas 85 00:04:35,158 --> 00:04:37,558 Speaker 1: in nineteen it was eighty there was a clock in 86 00:04:37,598 --> 00:04:41,758 Speaker 1: the National Baseball Congress World Series in Wichita, and it 87 00:04:41,838 --> 00:04:46,078 Speaker 1: didn't bother anybody at that time. But when I but 88 00:04:46,238 --> 00:04:48,038 Speaker 1: the Cubs not making the plaoffs that the first time 89 00:04:48,078 --> 00:04:51,518 Speaker 1: came home watching a playoff game on TV. Wow took forever. 90 00:04:51,638 --> 00:04:54,878 Speaker 1: Interminable was the word that I that brought to came 91 00:04:54,918 --> 00:04:57,918 Speaker 1: to my mind. So yeah, I like the idea of 92 00:04:58,038 --> 00:05:00,958 Speaker 1: getting the ball, throwing the ball. Talk about Baba Doo, 93 00:05:01,038 --> 00:05:03,478 Speaker 1: my mentor in the Book of Joe. I mean, Babaho 94 00:05:03,518 --> 00:05:05,598 Speaker 1: used to gets so upset when a pitch would take 95 00:05:05,638 --> 00:05:07,678 Speaker 1: too longer. A guy would not get into batter's box. 96 00:05:07,918 --> 00:05:09,678 Speaker 1: He would just start yelling out from the side. I 97 00:05:09,678 --> 00:05:12,398 Speaker 1: mean in an instructional league game in Arizona with nobody around. 98 00:05:12,678 --> 00:05:15,278 Speaker 1: So I like that. I like the guy getting the ball, 99 00:05:15,638 --> 00:05:17,918 Speaker 1: getting on the rubber batter in the box. I think 100 00:05:17,958 --> 00:05:22,038 Speaker 1: it's going to create there's not all that necessary time 101 00:05:22,078 --> 00:05:25,278 Speaker 1: for strategy, strategy, and it's actually a point of overthinking. 102 00:05:25,318 --> 00:05:26,838 Speaker 1: So get the ball, throw the ball here to get 103 00:05:26,838 --> 00:05:29,038 Speaker 1: in a box ready to swing the bat. I like 104 00:05:29,198 --> 00:05:30,518 Speaker 1: all of that, and I think there's going to be 105 00:05:30,518 --> 00:05:33,038 Speaker 1: a positive reaction with the pace of the game. And 106 00:05:33,118 --> 00:05:35,198 Speaker 1: I've never been concerned about the length of the game. 107 00:05:35,558 --> 00:05:37,438 Speaker 1: That's a great point. I'm glad you pointed that out. 108 00:05:37,478 --> 00:05:39,998 Speaker 1: It really is about the pace of the game. It's 109 00:05:40,078 --> 00:05:42,318 Speaker 1: not the time of the game now. When they put 110 00:05:42,318 --> 00:05:45,278 Speaker 1: the pitch clock in the minor leagues last year, the 111 00:05:45,358 --> 00:05:49,878 Speaker 1: average minor league game was reduced by about twenty five minutes. 112 00:05:50,158 --> 00:05:53,038 Speaker 1: You're not going to see the same kind of cut 113 00:05:53,078 --> 00:05:55,398 Speaker 1: in the major leagues. The clock is actually a second 114 00:05:55,438 --> 00:05:59,158 Speaker 1: longer with runners and without runners, and there's more commercial 115 00:05:59,198 --> 00:06:02,038 Speaker 1: time built into a major league game, especially at national broadcast. 116 00:06:02,518 --> 00:06:05,278 Speaker 1: But you may be talking out as much as twenty 117 00:06:05,318 --> 00:06:07,758 Speaker 1: minutes being cut off a game that makes a big 118 00:06:07,798 --> 00:06:11,238 Speaker 1: difference more than that. Is exactly what you said, Joe. 119 00:06:11,358 --> 00:06:14,358 Speaker 1: The pace of action the ball in play, I call 120 00:06:14,358 --> 00:06:17,958 Speaker 1: it a state of readiness. If you as a fan 121 00:06:18,078 --> 00:06:20,718 Speaker 1: in the ballpark or especially at home, when there are 122 00:06:20,718 --> 00:06:24,238 Speaker 1: other distractions to pull you away from the game, see 123 00:06:24,278 --> 00:06:28,798 Speaker 1: everybody's body language completely go inert. They just stop right, 124 00:06:29,118 --> 00:06:31,078 Speaker 1: They walk off the back of the mound, they walk 125 00:06:31,078 --> 00:06:33,838 Speaker 1: out of the batter's box, the head goes down. They're 126 00:06:33,958 --> 00:06:37,518 Speaker 1: staring in the space. What are you doing? You're changing 127 00:06:37,558 --> 00:06:40,998 Speaker 1: the channel, You're looking at your screen, an iPad, whatever 128 00:06:41,038 --> 00:06:43,678 Speaker 1: it might be. You lose interest when the game is 129 00:06:43,678 --> 00:06:46,918 Speaker 1: played in a heightened state of readiness, like the way 130 00:06:47,078 --> 00:06:49,758 Speaker 1: soccer is, like the way basketball in the NFL is, 131 00:06:50,398 --> 00:06:53,678 Speaker 1: then you are more engaged as a fan. So I 132 00:06:54,118 --> 00:06:56,718 Speaker 1: love the fact that the game will be played at 133 00:06:56,758 --> 00:07:00,238 Speaker 1: a faster pace, And I actually think I agree with 134 00:07:00,278 --> 00:07:03,078 Speaker 1: your mentor Bablue. If I'm a pitcher man, I think 135 00:07:03,078 --> 00:07:05,838 Speaker 1: this helps me. I want to dictate pace if I'm 136 00:07:05,878 --> 00:07:09,318 Speaker 1: on the mount. The more I control pace and almost 137 00:07:09,478 --> 00:07:13,638 Speaker 1: force a hitter to think quickly rather than slowly, that 138 00:07:13,918 --> 00:07:16,558 Speaker 1: to me, Joe seems to advantage the picture. What do 139 00:07:16,598 --> 00:07:19,878 Speaker 1: you think, Well, yeah, I mean part of this slowness 140 00:07:19,958 --> 00:07:22,238 Speaker 1: that evolved was like in the early eighties to the 141 00:07:22,238 --> 00:07:24,558 Speaker 1: mid eighties when mental skills started to come on board, 142 00:07:24,958 --> 00:07:27,118 Speaker 1: And a lot of what you see with this this 143 00:07:27,278 --> 00:07:31,158 Speaker 1: time in between is possibly routines that have been developed 144 00:07:31,478 --> 00:07:34,998 Speaker 1: through the utilization of mental skills coaches. You know your 145 00:07:35,038 --> 00:07:37,998 Speaker 1: breath when things aren't going right to have a happy 146 00:07:38,038 --> 00:07:41,078 Speaker 1: spot on an outfield. Fancer like Evan Longoria. We look 147 00:07:41,118 --> 00:07:42,878 Speaker 1: at the top of the left field foul poll. That 148 00:07:42,918 --> 00:07:47,718 Speaker 1: was all from Kenny Vizza hitters. I mean pictures again, 149 00:07:49,078 --> 00:07:51,038 Speaker 1: guards that don't get under rubber unless you're ready to. 150 00:07:52,678 --> 00:07:54,478 Speaker 1: Long ago get out of the box until you're ready to. 151 00:07:54,678 --> 00:07:57,838 Speaker 1: So all that stuff conspired to add time to the 152 00:07:57,878 --> 00:08:00,878 Speaker 1: pitch or to the yet bat. So part of it's 153 00:08:00,878 --> 00:08:03,398 Speaker 1: our own fault. I'm regarding all of that with the 154 00:08:03,438 --> 00:08:06,158 Speaker 1: mental skill. So now mental skills has got to develop 155 00:08:06,638 --> 00:08:10,198 Speaker 1: another method, a quicker method. And again that's counterintuitive to 156 00:08:10,318 --> 00:08:12,918 Speaker 1: what we've been teaching to this point, because you do 157 00:08:12,958 --> 00:08:14,718 Speaker 1: want to take your time, never be in a hurry, 158 00:08:15,078 --> 00:08:17,798 Speaker 1: get your breath, you control the action, you control the pace. 159 00:08:18,158 --> 00:08:20,998 Speaker 1: So that's I really believe that that's been part of 160 00:08:21,038 --> 00:08:24,198 Speaker 1: the problem or the issue in a sense. But although 161 00:08:24,238 --> 00:08:27,438 Speaker 1: I'm a really big proponent of mental skills, so I'm 162 00:08:27,438 --> 00:08:30,038 Speaker 1: curious to see how this an acts as we move 163 00:08:30,078 --> 00:08:32,478 Speaker 1: it forward. I like the idea of a picture not 164 00:08:32,598 --> 00:08:34,478 Speaker 1: overthinking it. I like the idea of a hit or 165 00:08:34,478 --> 00:08:36,438 Speaker 1: not overthinking it. But I agree. I mean from a 166 00:08:36,478 --> 00:08:40,838 Speaker 1: pitcher's perspective, I think, get it and throw it. It's 167 00:08:40,838 --> 00:08:43,398 Speaker 1: just like on a golf tea see it and hit it. 168 00:08:43,438 --> 00:08:45,278 Speaker 1: I mean, we get to this point where we have 169 00:08:45,358 --> 00:08:47,678 Speaker 1: too much time in between football you don't as a 170 00:08:47,678 --> 00:08:51,158 Speaker 1: football player, as a quarterback. After that first hit, it 171 00:08:51,238 --> 00:08:53,038 Speaker 1: was almost like we're just talking right now. You didn't 172 00:08:53,038 --> 00:08:55,638 Speaker 1: think about anything. Basketball, if you want to argue with 173 00:08:55,678 --> 00:08:57,078 Speaker 1: the referee, he gives you the ball, you have to 174 00:08:57,078 --> 00:08:59,318 Speaker 1: put it in play. In baseball, we have all these 175 00:08:59,358 --> 00:09:01,598 Speaker 1: pauses that you have a chance to overthink it. So 176 00:09:01,998 --> 00:09:04,718 Speaker 1: I'm curious with all of that not chanced over thinking 177 00:09:04,718 --> 00:09:07,318 Speaker 1: now with the pitcher, and obviously the same with the hitter. 178 00:09:08,278 --> 00:09:10,958 Speaker 1: But I do there's a lot to like about this. 179 00:09:11,038 --> 00:09:13,878 Speaker 1: But again, these guys are still gonna want to have 180 00:09:13,878 --> 00:09:16,238 Speaker 1: a routine that they're gonna have to expedite a bit, 181 00:09:16,278 --> 00:09:18,798 Speaker 1: and I'm curious to see how that evolves. Yeah, it's interesting. 182 00:09:18,838 --> 00:09:21,678 Speaker 1: If you remember when we had Anthony Rizzo on the podcast, 183 00:09:21,758 --> 00:09:24,358 Speaker 1: he talked about when he's facing guys in September who 184 00:09:24,358 --> 00:09:26,318 Speaker 1: just came up from the minor leagues who've been pitching 185 00:09:26,318 --> 00:09:28,958 Speaker 1: with the clock, he felt rushed at the plate. His 186 00:09:29,078 --> 00:09:32,318 Speaker 1: own kind of routine to get himself ready had to 187 00:09:32,358 --> 00:09:34,718 Speaker 1: be quickened and made him a little bit uncomfortable. Now, 188 00:09:35,478 --> 00:09:38,798 Speaker 1: spring training games are starting this weekend. The games will 189 00:09:38,838 --> 00:09:41,718 Speaker 1: be played under the new set of rules. You have 190 00:09:41,798 --> 00:09:44,758 Speaker 1: teams right now practicing and taking batting practice with clocks 191 00:09:44,798 --> 00:09:49,598 Speaker 1: on the field. Everybody is getting their routines readjusted. Will 192 00:09:49,638 --> 00:09:52,718 Speaker 1: it happen in the course of spring training. No, it's 193 00:09:52,718 --> 00:09:54,598 Speaker 1: still always going to bleed into the regular season. You're 194 00:09:54,638 --> 00:09:56,958 Speaker 1: gonna have a lot of veteran players in April, especially 195 00:09:56,998 --> 00:10:00,678 Speaker 1: complaining about it. You'll have guys maybe even punched out 196 00:10:00,678 --> 00:10:02,718 Speaker 1: by an umpire because the hitter took too long to 197 00:10:02,758 --> 00:10:05,598 Speaker 1: get in the box that the penalty is a strike 198 00:10:05,638 --> 00:10:08,118 Speaker 1: on the batter or a ball on the pitcher. It's 199 00:10:08,158 --> 00:10:11,278 Speaker 1: going to happen, folks and guys are going to complain, 200 00:10:11,558 --> 00:10:14,638 Speaker 1: but you know what, it's just part of the adjustment period. 201 00:10:14,798 --> 00:10:18,318 Speaker 1: After about two, three, four weeks, they'll be good. They'll 202 00:10:18,358 --> 00:10:20,398 Speaker 1: move on. It will not be an issue. But I'm 203 00:10:20,438 --> 00:10:23,478 Speaker 1: telling you, just be prepared for a lot of complaining. Yes, 204 00:10:23,638 --> 00:10:26,238 Speaker 1: no different than when they brought in the instant replace stuff, 205 00:10:26,238 --> 00:10:29,358 Speaker 1: and the result would come back and I would look 206 00:10:29,358 --> 00:10:30,838 Speaker 1: at the board and you would see the board and 207 00:10:30,878 --> 00:10:33,438 Speaker 1: you know, okay, absolutely they have to go in this direction. 208 00:10:33,678 --> 00:10:36,878 Speaker 1: Then they come back in another direction based on against 209 00:10:36,918 --> 00:10:39,878 Speaker 1: what you have thought, based on the scrutiny from New York. 210 00:10:39,998 --> 00:10:42,638 Speaker 1: And I you're not supposed to argue right there because 211 00:10:42,718 --> 00:10:44,678 Speaker 1: these unparts on the field that have nothing to do 212 00:10:44,718 --> 00:10:46,238 Speaker 1: with this call. But I knew that. I knew that. 213 00:10:46,398 --> 00:10:47,958 Speaker 1: But I'm still gonna argue, and I'm still gonna get 214 00:10:48,038 --> 00:10:49,998 Speaker 1: kicked out because you still have to make a point. 215 00:10:50,238 --> 00:10:52,958 Speaker 1: So I think, like, just like you're talking about, even 216 00:10:52,958 --> 00:10:55,638 Speaker 1: though everybody knows these are the rules, there's still a 217 00:10:55,638 --> 00:10:57,558 Speaker 1: lot of purists that are not going to like it. 218 00:10:58,238 --> 00:11:01,958 Speaker 1: Eventually it will be will get to the point where 219 00:11:01,958 --> 00:11:04,838 Speaker 1: everybody does kind of morph into it and understands it 220 00:11:04,998 --> 00:11:08,038 Speaker 1: and does it more seamlessly. But in the beginning, if 221 00:11:08,038 --> 00:11:12,118 Speaker 1: somebody gets punched out man on a time clock, God, 222 00:11:12,118 --> 00:11:13,678 Speaker 1: I don't even know what I would do in the dugout, 223 00:11:13,718 --> 00:11:15,918 Speaker 1: I swear to God. And then again, you have to 224 00:11:15,998 --> 00:11:18,198 Speaker 1: you have to understand, I mean, you was it was 225 00:11:18,278 --> 00:11:20,038 Speaker 1: the clock? Ride was the guy too quick? I mean 226 00:11:20,198 --> 00:11:23,278 Speaker 1: you're gonna try to, you know, parcel list down to 227 00:11:23,318 --> 00:11:28,318 Speaker 1: like really some minute moments or situations. It's gonna be tough. 228 00:11:28,678 --> 00:11:31,158 Speaker 1: And so you're right, it's gonna it's gonna happen. It'll 229 00:11:31,278 --> 00:11:33,558 Speaker 1: take some time, but they're still gonna be arguments and 230 00:11:33,598 --> 00:11:37,238 Speaker 1: are still going to be It's like anything else, unintended consequences. 231 00:11:37,278 --> 00:11:39,438 Speaker 1: As you move this further along, some of the things 232 00:11:39,438 --> 00:11:41,518 Speaker 1: that seem really obvious and good to us right now 233 00:11:41,558 --> 00:11:44,278 Speaker 1: are going to be challenged. Yes, let me give our 234 00:11:44,278 --> 00:11:47,238 Speaker 1: listeners a quick summation of how we got here and 235 00:11:47,238 --> 00:11:50,398 Speaker 1: why it's necessary. If you go back to the highest 236 00:11:50,798 --> 00:11:53,718 Speaker 1: attended season in baseball history, that's two thousand and seven, 237 00:11:53,798 --> 00:11:58,278 Speaker 1: that's the apex of attendance. Since then, major League Baseball 238 00:11:58,318 --> 00:12:02,718 Speaker 1: games on average have gotten twelve minutes longer with six 239 00:12:02,918 --> 00:12:06,998 Speaker 1: fewer balls put into play. What does that mean? That 240 00:12:07,038 --> 00:12:12,478 Speaker 1: means baseball lost fifteen million fans in those fifteen years 241 00:12:12,878 --> 00:12:17,598 Speaker 1: as they gave people less action over more time. That 242 00:12:17,718 --> 00:12:22,118 Speaker 1: is the absolute worst kind of formula that any entertainment 243 00:12:22,158 --> 00:12:24,758 Speaker 1: industry could have, especially in this day, as the options 244 00:12:25,198 --> 00:12:27,998 Speaker 1: are just exponentially greater in terms of where you can 245 00:12:28,038 --> 00:12:30,958 Speaker 1: get your fun from, right, So you have to give 246 00:12:30,958 --> 00:12:34,558 Speaker 1: people more action over less time. That's what this is 247 00:12:34,598 --> 00:12:36,598 Speaker 1: designed to do. Now people have said, why don't you 248 00:12:36,598 --> 00:12:39,358 Speaker 1: just leave the game alone? The game self corrects over time, 249 00:12:39,438 --> 00:12:44,078 Speaker 1: and generally that has been true. It wasn't going to change, folks. 250 00:12:44,278 --> 00:12:47,478 Speaker 1: Players were getting slower and slower. And Joe, you're right 251 00:12:47,558 --> 00:12:49,798 Speaker 1: about the mental skills part of it. I will throw 252 00:12:49,838 --> 00:12:54,118 Speaker 1: in also the information. There is more information that's processed 253 00:12:54,198 --> 00:12:56,878 Speaker 1: in real time during a game than there ever has been. 254 00:12:57,278 --> 00:13:00,238 Speaker 1: That is not going back to nineteen fifties or nineteen 255 00:13:00,278 --> 00:13:03,358 Speaker 1: sixties baseball, which was basically your version of what you 256 00:13:03,398 --> 00:13:05,678 Speaker 1: call amor con league in baseball. Joe, just show up 257 00:13:05,678 --> 00:13:09,038 Speaker 1: and play right, and we're getting closer, not getting ever 258 00:13:09,078 --> 00:13:11,078 Speaker 1: get back there, but we're getting closer to that kind 259 00:13:11,118 --> 00:13:14,638 Speaker 1: of baseball, the game decided by the players and their 260 00:13:14,678 --> 00:13:18,238 Speaker 1: athleticism and not algorithms. Yeah, I mean, there's still going 261 00:13:18,318 --> 00:13:20,678 Speaker 1: to be this blood of information that's going to be 262 00:13:20,678 --> 00:13:22,918 Speaker 1: thrown out there prior to the game. And I'll argue, 263 00:13:22,958 --> 00:13:25,318 Speaker 1: even though it's been that way, when the game begins, man, 264 00:13:25,398 --> 00:13:29,198 Speaker 1: it's hard to really utilize all that. I mean, I 265 00:13:30,118 --> 00:13:31,958 Speaker 1: had that little sheet in my back pocket. I knew 266 00:13:31,958 --> 00:13:33,518 Speaker 1: what I wanted to do before the game began. It 267 00:13:33,558 --> 00:13:36,158 Speaker 1: was you had to, like I would have to possibly 268 00:13:36,238 --> 00:13:38,158 Speaker 1: check in a couple times during a game of something 269 00:13:38,238 --> 00:13:41,238 Speaker 1: that really wasn't certain of but for the most part, 270 00:13:41,318 --> 00:13:43,638 Speaker 1: by the time that game begin, you should know exactly 271 00:13:43,638 --> 00:13:45,718 Speaker 1: what you want to do catcher to picture, picture to 272 00:13:45,838 --> 00:13:48,558 Speaker 1: catcher hitting before you got into the batter's box, manager 273 00:13:48,598 --> 00:13:50,678 Speaker 1: before the ending, you got to know what you're going 274 00:13:50,718 --> 00:13:53,758 Speaker 1: to do before the inning begins, several hitters in advance. 275 00:13:53,838 --> 00:13:55,918 Speaker 1: So I mean, I think a little bit of this 276 00:13:55,998 --> 00:13:58,878 Speaker 1: has been overblown with the information being so impactful during 277 00:13:58,918 --> 00:14:01,198 Speaker 1: the game. It's really impactful in regards to how you 278 00:14:01,238 --> 00:14:03,478 Speaker 1: set up the game before it occurs, and then it's 279 00:14:03,478 --> 00:14:07,438 Speaker 1: going to be organizationally contingent. It's the group that really 280 00:14:07,518 --> 00:14:10,998 Speaker 1: wants their manager to serve more as a middle manager 281 00:14:11,318 --> 00:14:13,758 Speaker 1: is going to have to really be there with almost 282 00:14:13,798 --> 00:14:15,438 Speaker 1: like a cheat sheet there in the course of the 283 00:14:15,478 --> 00:14:17,798 Speaker 1: game to make sure you'd stay with script. And there's 284 00:14:17,798 --> 00:14:20,358 Speaker 1: others that are gonna like I would like to believe 285 00:14:20,358 --> 00:14:22,518 Speaker 1: I was this guy that I would get all this information, 286 00:14:22,518 --> 00:14:24,038 Speaker 1: I would want it, But then by the time the 287 00:14:24,038 --> 00:14:26,358 Speaker 1: game began, it's more read and react kind of a 288 00:14:26,398 --> 00:14:31,238 Speaker 1: situation because nothing rare that anything goes according to script 289 00:14:31,358 --> 00:14:34,438 Speaker 1: or theory, because during reality most of the time are 290 00:14:34,478 --> 00:14:37,958 Speaker 1: two different things. So the information overload is there it's 291 00:14:37,998 --> 00:14:39,958 Speaker 1: not going to go away as long as it stays 292 00:14:39,998 --> 00:14:44,038 Speaker 1: before the game. I don't think it'll be it's going 293 00:14:44,078 --> 00:14:46,638 Speaker 1: to really be oppressive during any game. But like you're saying, 294 00:14:46,638 --> 00:14:50,198 Speaker 1: I agree with that, less time to really process all 295 00:14:50,198 --> 00:14:52,598 Speaker 1: this stuff is actually a good thing, and maybe they're 296 00:14:52,598 --> 00:14:54,878 Speaker 1: gonna have to reduce reduced, reduce even more prior to 297 00:14:54,958 --> 00:14:57,678 Speaker 1: the game less cheat sheets. Durre any game. Let's go 298 00:14:57,758 --> 00:15:00,598 Speaker 1: play some baseball. I think everybody would love that. Hey, 299 00:15:00,638 --> 00:15:03,198 Speaker 1: speaking of pitch timers, I'm up against one right here, 300 00:15:03,238 --> 00:15:04,918 Speaker 1: so we're gonna take a quick break, and when we 301 00:15:04,958 --> 00:15:08,198 Speaker 1: come back, I want to ask one of the early 302 00:15:08,238 --> 00:15:11,678 Speaker 1: adopters who with the shift, what he thinks of the 303 00:15:11,678 --> 00:15:22,078 Speaker 1: shift now being banned. Hey, welcome back to the Book 304 00:15:22,118 --> 00:15:25,678 Speaker 1: of Joe podcast. Joe Madden was listen. He wasn't there 305 00:15:25,718 --> 00:15:28,598 Speaker 1: with the Boudreau shift Lou Boudreau on Ted Williams or 306 00:15:28,598 --> 00:15:31,318 Speaker 1: back in the nineteen twenties with Sy Williams and the Phillies. 307 00:15:31,398 --> 00:15:35,078 Speaker 1: But in the modern shift era, he was right there 308 00:15:35,078 --> 00:15:37,798 Speaker 1: at the beginning, first with the Angels, then with the Rays. 309 00:15:38,358 --> 00:15:41,318 Speaker 1: You're talking about shifting on Ken Griffe Junior. You're talking 310 00:15:41,318 --> 00:15:45,598 Speaker 1: before man outfields those days are over. That sort of 311 00:15:45,798 --> 00:15:48,438 Speaker 1: ingenuity now has been legislated out of the game, and 312 00:15:48,478 --> 00:15:51,598 Speaker 1: I could see why someone like Joe would be against it. 313 00:15:52,478 --> 00:15:55,558 Speaker 1: I'm for it, But again, Joe, I want to hear 314 00:15:55,598 --> 00:15:57,838 Speaker 1: your perspective on someone who was right there at the 315 00:15:57,918 --> 00:16:00,198 Speaker 1: beginning of this and now you're being told you can't 316 00:16:00,198 --> 00:16:02,558 Speaker 1: do it. Yeah. I again, it's just it's the game 317 00:16:02,598 --> 00:16:04,638 Speaker 1: of baseball, and it should be like wide open to 318 00:16:04,678 --> 00:16:07,358 Speaker 1: do whatever you want to do based on strategical advantages 319 00:16:07,398 --> 00:16:09,358 Speaker 1: that you see, and you have to have kind of 320 00:16:09,398 --> 00:16:11,238 Speaker 1: like the balls to do it. I mean, some people, 321 00:16:12,118 --> 00:16:14,758 Speaker 1: especially in the beginning, we were made fun of with 322 00:16:14,798 --> 00:16:17,678 Speaker 1: the race, the fact that we did all these weird 323 00:16:17,718 --> 00:16:20,278 Speaker 1: things on defense, and you had to answer a lot 324 00:16:20,278 --> 00:16:22,278 Speaker 1: of questions and a lot of people's you're trying to 325 00:16:22,318 --> 00:16:24,398 Speaker 1: reinvent the wheel, all this different kind of stuff that 326 00:16:24,478 --> 00:16:26,958 Speaker 1: was being said in six seven, eight, whenever those cut 327 00:16:27,038 --> 00:16:29,118 Speaker 1: first couple of years were and now all of a sudden, 328 00:16:29,158 --> 00:16:31,158 Speaker 1: they then it becomes mainstream and now you have to 329 00:16:31,158 --> 00:16:34,678 Speaker 1: actually legislate against it. It's become it's gone so far 330 00:16:34,718 --> 00:16:37,238 Speaker 1: to the other side. My take has always been this, 331 00:16:37,318 --> 00:16:39,598 Speaker 1: and I'm a believer in this, and that you're right. 332 00:16:39,638 --> 00:16:43,558 Speaker 1: I don't like legislation. I don't think that you really 333 00:16:44,478 --> 00:16:48,718 Speaker 1: to change anything always requires somebody having to sit down 334 00:16:48,718 --> 00:16:50,438 Speaker 1: and think that I have a better way of doing this. 335 00:16:50,878 --> 00:16:53,198 Speaker 1: I prefer that I would have preferred that the players 336 00:16:53,238 --> 00:16:56,918 Speaker 1: handled it themselves, and even organizations. Meaning when I get it, 337 00:16:56,918 --> 00:16:58,758 Speaker 1: we're going to get young Tom Barducci in my minor 338 00:16:58,838 --> 00:17:01,918 Speaker 1: league system, strong left handed hitter out of Seaton Hall 339 00:17:01,958 --> 00:17:04,838 Speaker 1: Prep in New Jersey. This guy as a pull hitter. 340 00:17:04,878 --> 00:17:07,318 Speaker 1: He's got some pop, but I know that if I 341 00:17:07,398 --> 00:17:09,558 Speaker 1: don't give him other weapons in the minor leagues, that 342 00:17:09,598 --> 00:17:12,158 Speaker 1: eventually he's going to be subject to this method of 343 00:17:12,198 --> 00:17:14,638 Speaker 1: play where there's gonna be an extra guy on this 344 00:17:14,678 --> 00:17:16,998 Speaker 1: side of the endfield. I need to teach him how 345 00:17:17,038 --> 00:17:19,278 Speaker 1: to stay inside the ball, drive the ball to the 346 00:17:19,278 --> 00:17:21,358 Speaker 1: other side, or just bunt for a hit when a 347 00:17:21,438 --> 00:17:25,758 Speaker 1: situation presents itself based on the defense in front of him. 348 00:17:25,878 --> 00:17:28,198 Speaker 1: I don't think enough time was not nearly enough time 349 00:17:28,278 --> 00:17:30,718 Speaker 1: was spent on that. I know that for a fact. 350 00:17:30,718 --> 00:17:33,078 Speaker 1: So that's that's what it comes down to for me, 351 00:17:34,438 --> 00:17:36,398 Speaker 1: is that I don't think the industry has spent enough 352 00:17:36,438 --> 00:17:41,678 Speaker 1: time nurturing opposite field bunning you try to get it 353 00:17:41,678 --> 00:17:44,558 Speaker 1: done after the fact. I mean, Scherberg try to do it. 354 00:17:44,598 --> 00:17:46,918 Speaker 1: Anthony's kind of done it in a good way, and 355 00:17:46,958 --> 00:17:49,398 Speaker 1: there's others that have not been successful doing it. So 356 00:17:49,438 --> 00:17:52,078 Speaker 1: I just from my perspective, I like to see those 357 00:17:52,118 --> 00:17:55,798 Speaker 1: things done, and from a teaching perspective, teach him out 358 00:17:55,798 --> 00:17:57,638 Speaker 1: at the ball the other way, how to stay inside 359 00:17:57,638 --> 00:18:00,438 Speaker 1: the ball, how to bunt prevent this team from putting 360 00:18:00,478 --> 00:18:02,278 Speaker 1: the other guy on the other side of the endfield. 361 00:18:02,718 --> 00:18:04,798 Speaker 1: So you still have an advantage in that moment. But 362 00:18:04,878 --> 00:18:07,558 Speaker 1: then again it comes down to compensation and what organizations want. 363 00:18:07,598 --> 00:18:11,318 Speaker 1: They want home runs, so if you want There's Tommy 364 00:18:11,398 --> 00:18:13,678 Speaker 1: Verducci and he's yeah, he's got all this power, and 365 00:18:13,718 --> 00:18:15,518 Speaker 1: if we teach him this, then he's going to subtract 366 00:18:15,558 --> 00:18:17,558 Speaker 1: from his home runs. I don't really care if he 367 00:18:17,598 --> 00:18:19,518 Speaker 1: strikes out. I just he's got a decent I was 368 00:18:19,558 --> 00:18:23,158 Speaker 1: going to accept the walk. So there's all this different 369 00:18:23,238 --> 00:18:27,758 Speaker 1: kind of input being instilled and installed into the game 370 00:18:27,798 --> 00:18:30,678 Speaker 1: and into tom and into this this method of thinking. 371 00:18:31,478 --> 00:18:34,518 Speaker 1: Convoluted answer, but that I really would prefer would have 372 00:18:34,598 --> 00:18:36,718 Speaker 1: preferred that we had done a better job of teaching 373 00:18:36,718 --> 00:18:40,878 Speaker 1: Minor League Lieutenant hitters to utilize the whole field. And actually, 374 00:18:40,918 --> 00:18:42,638 Speaker 1: to the point, if you if you really wanted to 375 00:18:42,678 --> 00:18:45,598 Speaker 1: get that done, compensate I mean exactly. I mean, if 376 00:18:45,598 --> 00:18:48,718 Speaker 1: you get so many extra bassits on that side versus 377 00:18:48,718 --> 00:18:50,358 Speaker 1: the shift, or if you get a butt for a hit, 378 00:18:50,558 --> 00:18:52,398 Speaker 1: you know, different things like that. It's always going to 379 00:18:52,478 --> 00:18:54,558 Speaker 1: come down to how you com say for it, and 380 00:18:54,638 --> 00:18:57,798 Speaker 1: the players will evolve and react. Well, I agree with that. 381 00:18:57,878 --> 00:18:59,678 Speaker 1: You know, the carrot was not out there for the 382 00:18:59,678 --> 00:19:02,438 Speaker 1: guys to play that kind of offensive baseball you're talking about, 383 00:19:02,478 --> 00:19:05,758 Speaker 1: because they knew they could hit thirteen and hit forty 384 00:19:05,798 --> 00:19:08,518 Speaker 1: six home runs like a Kyle Schwerber and you will 385 00:19:08,558 --> 00:19:11,758 Speaker 1: get paid very well. So that was part of the problem. 386 00:19:11,838 --> 00:19:15,598 Speaker 1: But I actually think you have to give pitchers more 387 00:19:15,638 --> 00:19:18,758 Speaker 1: credit show. I mean, what happened I saw was teams 388 00:19:18,798 --> 00:19:21,918 Speaker 1: now began to pitch into the shifts. For instance, in 389 00:19:21,958 --> 00:19:25,238 Speaker 1: the last five years, cut fastballs from right handers to 390 00:19:25,398 --> 00:19:28,398 Speaker 1: left handers went up fifty percent. Now, if you're a 391 00:19:28,478 --> 00:19:30,958 Speaker 1: left handed hitter and that balls cutting in on your 392 00:19:30,958 --> 00:19:34,878 Speaker 1: hands at ninety three miles an hour, you are not 393 00:19:35,038 --> 00:19:38,318 Speaker 1: carving that pitch to left field. I'm sorry, it's not happening. 394 00:19:38,518 --> 00:19:40,638 Speaker 1: You've got to get the barrel out front. You have 395 00:19:40,718 --> 00:19:42,918 Speaker 1: to pull that pitch. The only place you can land 396 00:19:42,958 --> 00:19:46,198 Speaker 1: that ball in the shift is basically on the grass 397 00:19:46,238 --> 00:19:48,318 Speaker 1: next to the foul line and right field. That's it. 398 00:19:48,878 --> 00:19:52,478 Speaker 1: So now you can be rewarded for hitting a groundball 399 00:19:52,678 --> 00:19:55,078 Speaker 1: through the hole between first and second, the way it 400 00:19:55,198 --> 00:19:58,638 Speaker 1: was for a hundred years. I like the fact that 401 00:19:58,638 --> 00:20:01,198 Speaker 1: that is going to come back. That you don't now 402 00:20:01,278 --> 00:20:03,158 Speaker 1: have to have hitters trained to hit the ball in 403 00:20:03,198 --> 00:20:05,438 Speaker 1: the air because there's just no grass out there to 404 00:20:05,438 --> 00:20:08,118 Speaker 1: get a line drive or a ground ball through the 405 00:20:08,238 --> 00:20:10,398 Speaker 1: right side if you're a left handed hitter. I love that, 406 00:20:10,678 --> 00:20:13,998 Speaker 1: and I think you'll see hitters respond to that. It's like, whoa, 407 00:20:14,038 --> 00:20:16,358 Speaker 1: I just got a base hit. I didn't actually square 408 00:20:16,398 --> 00:20:19,078 Speaker 1: it up, but it got through the infield. I'm feeling 409 00:20:19,118 --> 00:20:21,158 Speaker 1: good about myself. Joe, you know what it's like when 410 00:20:21,158 --> 00:20:23,238 Speaker 1: you're on base, even if a blue pland's there. You 411 00:20:23,278 --> 00:20:26,678 Speaker 1: know that does wonders for your mental capacity and not 412 00:20:26,718 --> 00:20:29,918 Speaker 1: to mention your batting average. So I think the incentive 413 00:20:29,958 --> 00:20:32,798 Speaker 1: here we'll start showing up as a season goes on that, hey, 414 00:20:32,878 --> 00:20:36,318 Speaker 1: you don't have to launch everything. Guys, well, I do believe. 415 00:20:36,318 --> 00:20:39,838 Speaker 1: I mean, your logic is outstanding. The point, though, is 416 00:20:39,918 --> 00:20:43,318 Speaker 1: also that a good cutter on a left handed hitter 417 00:20:43,598 --> 00:20:45,918 Speaker 1: is still going to be defended against, even with only 418 00:20:45,918 --> 00:20:47,758 Speaker 1: one guy on that side of the field, because if 419 00:20:48,038 --> 00:20:50,038 Speaker 1: the pitcher's got good enough command in and he's going 420 00:20:50,078 --> 00:20:52,518 Speaker 1: to listit that soft of a contact, if you have 421 00:20:52,558 --> 00:20:54,558 Speaker 1: a decent first and second baseman, you're still going to 422 00:20:54,638 --> 00:20:56,638 Speaker 1: cover the area the majority of the time. The ball 423 00:20:56,718 --> 00:20:58,718 Speaker 1: is going to be hit, which would be more to 424 00:20:58,758 --> 00:21:02,598 Speaker 1: the pull side, more soft from where straight up second 425 00:21:02,598 --> 00:21:05,758 Speaker 1: base to the first hole to the first baseman, and 426 00:21:05,798 --> 00:21:07,798 Speaker 1: it's still not going to be hit hard. And that's 427 00:21:07,798 --> 00:21:11,398 Speaker 1: the thing about defenses. Defenses get bigger through lack of 428 00:21:11,438 --> 00:21:14,718 Speaker 1: hard contact. Defenses get smaller when the ball is hit hard. 429 00:21:14,958 --> 00:21:18,038 Speaker 1: So I can't disagree with your logic. It is true 430 00:21:18,278 --> 00:21:20,638 Speaker 1: the cutter is hard to carve the other way, no question, 431 00:21:20,958 --> 00:21:24,878 Speaker 1: But I just can't conceive the fact that because there's 432 00:21:24,878 --> 00:21:26,478 Speaker 1: one list gut on that side of the field and 433 00:21:26,558 --> 00:21:28,238 Speaker 1: the cutter is still going to be thrown. I'm curious, 434 00:21:28,438 --> 00:21:31,078 Speaker 1: and well, you know this will be born out over 435 00:21:31,118 --> 00:21:33,798 Speaker 1: the course of the year, but I don't necessarily believe 436 00:21:33,838 --> 00:21:36,518 Speaker 1: that there's gonna be that dramatic of an increase in 437 00:21:36,598 --> 00:21:40,558 Speaker 1: knocks versus the cutter in based on how defenses are played, 438 00:21:41,118 --> 00:21:43,078 Speaker 1: just because that's where the ball is going to be hit, 439 00:21:43,078 --> 00:21:46,358 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be hit softly. And could I just 440 00:21:46,478 --> 00:21:49,158 Speaker 1: jump into another point right here, because what you're talking about, 441 00:21:49,918 --> 00:21:52,358 Speaker 1: see this is this is where the defensive second basement 442 00:21:52,478 --> 00:21:55,238 Speaker 1: is going to become even more prominent. I don't even 443 00:21:55,278 --> 00:21:56,478 Speaker 1: know if it's going to get to the point just 444 00:21:56,518 --> 00:21:58,758 Speaker 1: say you have a right handed starting pitcher with a 445 00:21:58,798 --> 00:22:02,038 Speaker 1: good cutter against the predominantly left handed lineup right, is 446 00:22:02,078 --> 00:22:05,318 Speaker 1: that when you play your better defensive second basement, because 447 00:22:05,318 --> 00:22:07,678 Speaker 1: there's gonna be more lefties, the ball's gonna be on 448 00:22:07,758 --> 00:22:09,278 Speaker 1: their hands. I want the guy with the range of 449 00:22:09,358 --> 00:22:11,478 Speaker 1: specially two is left and I could set things and 450 00:22:12,078 --> 00:22:13,638 Speaker 1: to the point, I mean, I don't even know if 451 00:22:13,638 --> 00:22:14,798 Speaker 1: it's going to get to the point where you want 452 00:22:14,798 --> 00:22:18,518 Speaker 1: a left handed first baseman just to cover that homework stringently. 453 00:22:18,598 --> 00:22:20,758 Speaker 1: So these are the kind of things that I'm curious about. 454 00:22:20,918 --> 00:22:24,038 Speaker 1: Then you play your offensive right handed second basement when 455 00:22:24,038 --> 00:22:26,038 Speaker 1: you have a left handed starter, you know these are 456 00:22:26,078 --> 00:22:28,198 Speaker 1: the is this going to become part of the nuance 457 00:22:28,478 --> 00:22:32,038 Speaker 1: of moving it forward. I agree with that. I think 458 00:22:32,078 --> 00:22:34,678 Speaker 1: there's a premium on range at second base now, like 459 00:22:34,918 --> 00:22:37,958 Speaker 1: never before, you're out there on island. Now at second base, 460 00:22:38,038 --> 00:22:41,838 Speaker 1: you can't, as the Reds did sign Mike moose Stock 461 00:22:41,878 --> 00:22:44,518 Speaker 1: as a third baseman, say go play second base. You 462 00:22:44,558 --> 00:22:47,358 Speaker 1: can't do that. Those guys will not have a place 463 00:22:47,398 --> 00:22:50,798 Speaker 1: in the game. Let me give you two stars in 464 00:22:50,838 --> 00:22:53,558 Speaker 1: this game, sure, as an example of how the game 465 00:22:53,558 --> 00:22:56,398 Speaker 1: has changed. I'm gonna start with Corey Seeger, huge star 466 00:22:56,478 --> 00:22:58,918 Speaker 1: in the game. Right when he was a rookie in 467 00:22:58,958 --> 00:23:02,518 Speaker 1: twenty sixteen, they shifted against him only eleven percent of 468 00:23:02,558 --> 00:23:05,078 Speaker 1: the time. That was probably when he was playing against 469 00:23:05,078 --> 00:23:08,038 Speaker 1: your team, because they didn't shift a whole lot back then. 470 00:23:08,118 --> 00:23:10,918 Speaker 1: It wasn't that long ago twenty sixteen, but eleven percent 471 00:23:10,918 --> 00:23:12,718 Speaker 1: at a time, when he pulled the ball put the 472 00:23:12,718 --> 00:23:16,558 Speaker 1: ball in play, he hit three thirty three. Now, let's 473 00:23:16,598 --> 00:23:19,798 Speaker 1: fast forward to last year. Corey Seeger saw a shift 474 00:23:20,158 --> 00:23:23,678 Speaker 1: ninety three percent of the time, and when he pulled 475 00:23:23,718 --> 00:23:27,798 Speaker 1: the ball in play he hit two thirty nine. He 476 00:23:27,918 --> 00:23:30,998 Speaker 1: lost basically one hundred points the same player hitting the 477 00:23:31,038 --> 00:23:33,638 Speaker 1: ball the same way, and the total number of hits 478 00:23:33,678 --> 00:23:35,998 Speaker 1: to the pul side basically the same, and he lost 479 00:23:35,998 --> 00:23:39,318 Speaker 1: almost one hundred points on his batting average. The other 480 00:23:39,358 --> 00:23:42,718 Speaker 1: one you know very well, Show Hey Otani. Right, you 481 00:23:42,878 --> 00:23:47,678 Speaker 1: saw people routinely shift on Showhey Otani. Now, his power 482 00:23:48,278 --> 00:23:50,158 Speaker 1: is great the other way, but when he hits the 483 00:23:50,158 --> 00:23:52,518 Speaker 1: ball to the pulse side, when he hits it one 484 00:23:52,558 --> 00:23:55,238 Speaker 1: hundred miles an hour or more, and that smoked folks. 485 00:23:55,438 --> 00:23:57,078 Speaker 1: Hitting a ball more than one hundred miles an hour, 486 00:23:57,158 --> 00:23:59,958 Speaker 1: you squared it up, he was more likely to be 487 00:24:00,038 --> 00:24:04,558 Speaker 1: out than safe. He made more than thirty our two 488 00:24:04,718 --> 00:24:08,478 Speaker 1: infielders in a shift hitting the ball one hundred miles 489 00:24:08,478 --> 00:24:12,558 Speaker 1: an hour plus. What other sport would tell Lebron James, 490 00:24:12,558 --> 00:24:14,998 Speaker 1: We're gonna defend you with some funky kind of defense 491 00:24:14,998 --> 00:24:17,998 Speaker 1: and let it happen. Or with Tom Brady, we're gonna 492 00:24:18,038 --> 00:24:22,158 Speaker 1: make sure the defensive backs can basically tackle the receivers 493 00:24:22,198 --> 00:24:25,518 Speaker 1: five yards from the lion scrim They wouldn't. Why is 494 00:24:25,598 --> 00:24:29,318 Speaker 1: baseball putting governors, which is what these shifts do on 495 00:24:29,398 --> 00:24:32,478 Speaker 1: the stars of the game. We want these guys to shine. 496 00:24:32,558 --> 00:24:34,998 Speaker 1: I want to see Shoheio Tani hit a bullet to 497 00:24:35,118 --> 00:24:37,998 Speaker 1: right field and be a base hit and not have 498 00:24:38,038 --> 00:24:40,678 Speaker 1: a second baseman two hundred feet from a home plate 499 00:24:40,718 --> 00:24:43,118 Speaker 1: thrown him out at first base? How about that? So 500 00:24:43,158 --> 00:24:45,718 Speaker 1: I could argue, I mean I could accept the fact 501 00:24:46,798 --> 00:24:49,518 Speaker 1: the triangle because I started the triangle with Benji Gilt 502 00:24:49,558 --> 00:24:52,118 Speaker 1: with the Angels back in two thou and two. We 503 00:24:52,118 --> 00:24:55,478 Speaker 1: were up in Toronto and we just I just wanted 504 00:24:55,518 --> 00:24:57,278 Speaker 1: to put that out there. And I had him out 505 00:24:57,278 --> 00:25:00,318 Speaker 1: in right field in Toronto on that turf because of Delgado, 506 00:25:00,398 --> 00:25:03,238 Speaker 1: and I'm hitting the bullets from I think I was 507 00:25:03,638 --> 00:25:06,358 Speaker 1: on the first base side during batting practice. I just 508 00:25:06,358 --> 00:25:08,078 Speaker 1: want to get out there Benji. I wanted Benji because 509 00:25:08,078 --> 00:25:09,718 Speaker 1: he had the better arm, the stronger arm. You want 510 00:25:09,718 --> 00:25:13,278 Speaker 1: out there, the guy that's more reliable. So that is 511 00:25:13,358 --> 00:25:17,558 Speaker 1: that's what you're talking about. I would probably I could 512 00:25:17,598 --> 00:25:21,278 Speaker 1: be talked into making sure that the guy can't get 513 00:25:21,278 --> 00:25:22,918 Speaker 1: out deep in the triangle because I think that's a 514 00:25:22,918 --> 00:25:25,958 Speaker 1: lot of where the outs are at number one, number two, 515 00:25:27,158 --> 00:25:30,838 Speaker 1: I'll argue plate discipline. Corey Seeger once I figured him 516 00:25:30,878 --> 00:25:33,598 Speaker 1: out last year before I left, don't throw him a strike. 517 00:25:33,678 --> 00:25:35,318 Speaker 1: I mean, the biggest thing this guy's got to do 518 00:25:35,438 --> 00:25:39,598 Speaker 1: for me is recreate his plate discipline. Because what I 519 00:25:39,598 --> 00:25:41,638 Speaker 1: saw a lot, and that was after that. I walked 520 00:25:41,718 --> 00:25:43,838 Speaker 1: him that time with the bases load. We walked him. 521 00:25:43,878 --> 00:25:46,118 Speaker 1: After that I figured it out. It say no, no no, no, 522 00:25:46,118 --> 00:25:48,118 Speaker 1: no more of that. We're just not going to throw 523 00:25:48,198 --> 00:25:51,278 Speaker 1: him a strike. So you challenge guys like that to 524 00:25:51,358 --> 00:25:53,958 Speaker 1: swing at anything, and if you do, you know they're 525 00:25:53,958 --> 00:25:56,318 Speaker 1: going to grab you once because you can't always put 526 00:25:56,318 --> 00:25:58,718 Speaker 1: the ball exactly where you want to. But a guy 527 00:25:58,798 --> 00:26:01,358 Speaker 1: like Seeger, just don't throw him a strike. Just challenge 528 00:26:01,438 --> 00:26:04,238 Speaker 1: his plate discipline, challenge him outside the zone. You're going 529 00:26:04,238 --> 00:26:05,998 Speaker 1: to elicit a lot of weak contact. He's going to 530 00:26:06,038 --> 00:26:08,278 Speaker 1: grab one once in a while, but for the most part, 531 00:26:08,358 --> 00:26:10,838 Speaker 1: you have a picture that has great command. You could 532 00:26:10,878 --> 00:26:14,398 Speaker 1: control that at bat. So that's secret. That's what I 533 00:26:14,398 --> 00:26:17,318 Speaker 1: saw last your show. How you're right, And I would 534 00:26:17,358 --> 00:26:20,918 Speaker 1: I would concede that you'd have to stay on the 535 00:26:20,958 --> 00:26:23,678 Speaker 1: dirt for the reasons you just talked about, But I 536 00:26:23,798 --> 00:26:26,878 Speaker 1: still would not legislate against the shift. Oh you haven't 537 00:26:26,878 --> 00:26:29,158 Speaker 1: convinced me yet. But it was a good argument, pretty 538 00:26:29,158 --> 00:26:31,398 Speaker 1: good things. We're going to take a break here and 539 00:26:31,598 --> 00:26:34,398 Speaker 1: come right back and dive a little bit more into 540 00:26:34,398 --> 00:26:38,558 Speaker 1: the rules and is the stolen base. Actually coming back 541 00:26:38,558 --> 00:26:49,038 Speaker 1: to baseball, stick around, Welcome back to the Book of 542 00:26:49,118 --> 00:26:51,678 Speaker 1: Joe Podcast Joe. Sometimes. I've said this for years. I 543 00:26:51,678 --> 00:26:53,638 Speaker 1: look at a baseball game in the last few years, 544 00:26:53,678 --> 00:26:56,838 Speaker 1: and it looks like the library, the Firestone Library at Princeton. 545 00:26:56,958 --> 00:27:00,998 Speaker 1: Everybody's reading. The catcher's got scouting report on his wrist band, 546 00:27:01,038 --> 00:27:03,918 Speaker 1: he's reading. The guys in the dugout looking at iPads 547 00:27:04,158 --> 00:27:06,838 Speaker 1: and they're looking at video. The pitcher's got a scouting 548 00:27:06,878 --> 00:27:08,838 Speaker 1: report in his back pocket and there used to be 549 00:27:08,918 --> 00:27:12,638 Speaker 1: signed sequences before PitchCom he's reading, and the fielders are 550 00:27:12,638 --> 00:27:15,038 Speaker 1: out there pulling a card out of their back pocket 551 00:27:15,198 --> 00:27:18,398 Speaker 1: and they're reading. Come on, guys, let's play like we're 552 00:27:18,398 --> 00:27:21,038 Speaker 1: back in the schoolyard. Let's let a less take over 553 00:27:21,038 --> 00:27:23,678 Speaker 1: A quick story for you. I love telling this story. 554 00:27:23,798 --> 00:27:27,198 Speaker 1: Nineteen seventy eight, Game one sixty three, Loo Pinella robs 555 00:27:27,238 --> 00:27:30,278 Speaker 1: Freddy Lynn and a great tiebreaker game at Fenway Park. 556 00:27:31,078 --> 00:27:33,798 Speaker 1: Gidri is pitching and Panella is shaded towards the ray 557 00:27:33,878 --> 00:27:36,878 Speaker 1: field line against Freddy Linn. He makes a game saving catch. 558 00:27:36,878 --> 00:27:38,958 Speaker 1: He's probably a two run double if he's not where 559 00:27:38,958 --> 00:27:41,278 Speaker 1: he was. Fred Lynn was astounded by it, called it 560 00:27:41,318 --> 00:27:42,918 Speaker 1: the biggest play in the game, and after the game 561 00:27:42,958 --> 00:27:45,918 Speaker 1: he said that guy was lucky to make that catch. Well, 562 00:27:45,958 --> 00:27:47,758 Speaker 1: they asked Panella about it. He said, you know what, 563 00:27:47,878 --> 00:27:50,278 Speaker 1: Gidrey was pitching on short rest for the first time. 564 00:27:50,638 --> 00:27:52,718 Speaker 1: I saw early in the game he didn't have his 565 00:27:52,838 --> 00:27:55,438 Speaker 1: A plus fastball. Guys were starting to turn on it 566 00:27:55,478 --> 00:27:58,038 Speaker 1: a little bit, so I shaded him towards the right 567 00:27:58,118 --> 00:28:01,278 Speaker 1: field line. That's a ball player. That's a ballplayer reacting 568 00:28:01,318 --> 00:28:03,878 Speaker 1: to what he's seeing. We have removed that kind of 569 00:28:04,078 --> 00:28:06,438 Speaker 1: thought from players because now they have a laminated card 570 00:28:06,478 --> 00:28:08,478 Speaker 1: in their back pocket that tells them where to play, 571 00:28:09,198 --> 00:28:12,878 Speaker 1: and the specifications that go into the positioning is amazing. 572 00:28:13,158 --> 00:28:15,558 Speaker 1: I worry, actually a little bit about the Dodgers because 573 00:28:15,718 --> 00:28:18,838 Speaker 1: they're better than anybody. And you know this Joe from Tampa, 574 00:28:19,158 --> 00:28:22,118 Speaker 1: Andrew Friedman is a whiz when it comes to defensive positioning. 575 00:28:22,158 --> 00:28:24,918 Speaker 1: Whatever systems he uses works. They were the best in Tampa, 576 00:28:24,958 --> 00:28:28,078 Speaker 1: they're the best in LA. The Dodgers lose that competitive 577 00:28:28,158 --> 00:28:29,998 Speaker 1: edge this year. I mean, they'll still be a very 578 00:28:29,998 --> 00:28:32,438 Speaker 1: good team, don't get me wrong, but I like the 579 00:28:32,478 --> 00:28:36,238 Speaker 1: fact now it's more about players deciding the game than 580 00:28:36,278 --> 00:28:39,398 Speaker 1: the analytics department. Anytime you tell people what to do, 581 00:28:39,438 --> 00:28:42,198 Speaker 1: you're gonna lose their imagination, You're going to lose their 582 00:28:42,238 --> 00:28:44,678 Speaker 1: ability to think on their own. And I think that's 583 00:28:44,718 --> 00:28:46,758 Speaker 1: a lot of what we're talking about right now. As 584 00:28:46,798 --> 00:28:50,398 Speaker 1: the ball players today are not encouraged to think on 585 00:28:50,398 --> 00:28:52,998 Speaker 1: their own, coaches today are not encouraged to think on 586 00:28:53,038 --> 00:28:57,398 Speaker 1: their own. Analytics provides a safety net for decision making. 587 00:28:57,718 --> 00:29:02,118 Speaker 1: So if you continually follow the data and numbers and 588 00:29:02,198 --> 00:29:05,198 Speaker 1: it doesn't work, everybody's okay with that. It's no different 589 00:29:05,198 --> 00:29:07,318 Speaker 1: than going for a first down and fourth down all 590 00:29:07,318 --> 00:29:09,758 Speaker 1: the time in the NFL, And it's no different than 591 00:29:09,798 --> 00:29:13,718 Speaker 1: the three point shot that's really taken over the NBA. 592 00:29:13,838 --> 00:29:18,198 Speaker 1: So if the analytics provides a safety net for decision making, 593 00:29:18,278 --> 00:29:20,798 Speaker 1: so if it doesn't work, it's okay because the large 594 00:29:20,798 --> 00:29:23,118 Speaker 1: sample sides told us to do it. But I'm here 595 00:29:23,118 --> 00:29:26,438 Speaker 1: to tell you as a coach manager, I really if 596 00:29:26,518 --> 00:29:29,038 Speaker 1: you're if you're my hitting coach or pitching coach, whatever, 597 00:29:29,078 --> 00:29:31,198 Speaker 1: I'm staying out of your way because the moment I 598 00:29:31,278 --> 00:29:33,758 Speaker 1: keep telling you what to do, or I keep interfering 599 00:29:33,758 --> 00:29:37,638 Speaker 1: with your process with your players, I'm really losing you, 600 00:29:38,318 --> 00:29:41,078 Speaker 1: I'm losing everything that I hired you for, all the 601 00:29:41,118 --> 00:29:43,758 Speaker 1: inner intelligence that you might have, your experience, your wisdom, 602 00:29:43,958 --> 00:29:46,158 Speaker 1: because I don't want it. I don't want it. So 603 00:29:46,278 --> 00:29:49,798 Speaker 1: anytime you were constantly telling people what to do, you're 604 00:29:49,878 --> 00:29:54,918 Speaker 1: definitely losing their imagination. And I said, the years of 605 00:29:54,958 --> 00:29:57,598 Speaker 1: experience and wisdom, etc. So that's that's what I see 606 00:29:57,598 --> 00:29:59,958 Speaker 1: has been going on, and that's what really concerns me 607 00:29:59,998 --> 00:30:04,678 Speaker 1: about all this, And that's it. Yeah, it's interesting because 608 00:30:04,718 --> 00:30:07,998 Speaker 1: I give theo Epstein a ton of credit here because 609 00:30:08,038 --> 00:30:10,398 Speaker 1: he has really been one of the driving forces at 610 00:30:10,438 --> 00:30:13,278 Speaker 1: Major League Baseball as an advisor to the Commissioner's office 611 00:30:13,358 --> 00:30:15,918 Speaker 1: on these rule changes that do put the game more 612 00:30:16,038 --> 00:30:18,118 Speaker 1: back into the hands of the players themselves or at 613 00:30:18,158 --> 00:30:22,278 Speaker 1: least the people in uniform. And he is flat out admitted, listen, 614 00:30:22,398 --> 00:30:26,318 Speaker 1: we went basically too far with analytics when it comes 615 00:30:26,398 --> 00:30:30,158 Speaker 1: to the aesthetics of the game. And of course we 616 00:30:30,278 --> 00:30:31,918 Speaker 1: wrote about this a lot in the Book of Joe 617 00:30:32,598 --> 00:30:38,318 Speaker 1: that analytics, a great evaluation tool, became a way to 618 00:30:38,358 --> 00:30:41,278 Speaker 1: decide how the game should be played, the style of 619 00:30:41,318 --> 00:30:44,398 Speaker 1: the game, the script of a game that dictate dictation 620 00:30:44,478 --> 00:30:48,278 Speaker 1: of the game. For instance, analytics don't really love stolen basis. 621 00:30:48,518 --> 00:30:50,638 Speaker 1: If you think everybody's going to hit a home run, 622 00:30:51,118 --> 00:30:54,358 Speaker 1: there's no real reward for stealing a bag and moving 623 00:30:54,438 --> 00:30:56,478 Speaker 1: up ninety feet right, And the worst thing is you 624 00:30:56,518 --> 00:30:59,158 Speaker 1: get thrown out. You take a runner off the basis 625 00:30:59,718 --> 00:31:02,158 Speaker 1: when you think everybody's hitting a home run. That's the 626 00:31:02,198 --> 00:31:05,598 Speaker 1: way analytics works. Right Now that we have these bigger 627 00:31:05,638 --> 00:31:08,718 Speaker 1: bases and the distance now four and a half inches shorter, 628 00:31:08,758 --> 00:31:10,838 Speaker 1: there's a limit on pickoff throws. You can only pick 629 00:31:10,958 --> 00:31:15,238 Speaker 1: twice over to first base now, so we should see 630 00:31:15,838 --> 00:31:19,238 Speaker 1: an increase in both the percentage of the success rate 631 00:31:19,358 --> 00:31:23,958 Speaker 1: and the attempts of stolen bases. And if that's the case, 632 00:31:24,358 --> 00:31:25,998 Speaker 1: it went up a little bit in the minors. I 633 00:31:25,998 --> 00:31:28,998 Speaker 1: gotta tell you it wasn't a huge jump, but hopefully 634 00:31:29,038 --> 00:31:32,758 Speaker 1: there is a noticeable jump. And there's this we've returned 635 00:31:32,758 --> 00:31:34,558 Speaker 1: to the days when the guys on first base and 636 00:31:34,638 --> 00:31:38,118 Speaker 1: the thought that he might run puts energy into the ballpark. 637 00:31:38,198 --> 00:31:40,998 Speaker 1: How about that Joe blessing of the front offices. That's 638 00:31:40,998 --> 00:31:44,238 Speaker 1: what it comes down to. If the front office is 639 00:31:44,278 --> 00:31:48,118 Speaker 1: on board with that and they give it the blessing 640 00:31:48,158 --> 00:31:49,958 Speaker 1: to the manager, to the coaches that the player go 641 00:31:49,958 --> 00:31:52,438 Speaker 1: ahead and run, it'll happen. If they don't, it won't 642 00:31:52,438 --> 00:31:55,878 Speaker 1: because what happens is when guys get thrown out and 643 00:31:55,918 --> 00:31:58,838 Speaker 1: the out is given up on the bases. That's you know, 644 00:31:58,878 --> 00:32:01,238 Speaker 1: there's vinual sins and mortal sins in the Catholic Church. 645 00:32:01,278 --> 00:32:03,638 Speaker 1: I think that's considered a mortal sin when you get 646 00:32:03,638 --> 00:32:05,518 Speaker 1: thrown out on the basis because you get that kind 647 00:32:05,558 --> 00:32:07,998 Speaker 1: of reaction after the game. So there's gonna have to 648 00:32:08,078 --> 00:32:11,558 Speaker 1: be like a tempered method among front officers there. There's 649 00:32:11,558 --> 00:32:14,398 Speaker 1: got to be a buying from them that truly this 650 00:32:14,518 --> 00:32:16,358 Speaker 1: is like a more of an altruistic moment where we're 651 00:32:16,398 --> 00:32:18,598 Speaker 1: trying to make the game better and if this happens 652 00:32:18,598 --> 00:32:21,598 Speaker 1: to us or our team, so bit, we're gonna We're 653 00:32:21,638 --> 00:32:23,518 Speaker 1: just we're just trying to make this game more enjoyable. 654 00:32:23,798 --> 00:32:26,398 Speaker 1: But I also think it's discounted and it's not thought 655 00:32:26,398 --> 00:32:28,878 Speaker 1: about enough when you do that, when you have action 656 00:32:28,918 --> 00:32:31,558 Speaker 1: on the basis. Listen, I'm a base running free I 657 00:32:31,638 --> 00:32:33,478 Speaker 1: was always the base running coach and all the teams 658 00:32:33,478 --> 00:32:36,278 Speaker 1: that played on or a coach with. But if you 659 00:32:36,518 --> 00:32:39,878 Speaker 1: permit all this to occur, the splitting of concentration is 660 00:32:39,918 --> 00:32:43,238 Speaker 1: not given enough credit. I'm talking about from the pitching 661 00:32:43,238 --> 00:32:46,238 Speaker 1: perspective when he has to split his concentration to holding 662 00:32:46,238 --> 00:32:48,438 Speaker 1: a runner and at the same time trying to get 663 00:32:48,478 --> 00:32:51,678 Speaker 1: out a good hitter in a hot moment. Hey, you're 664 00:32:51,678 --> 00:32:53,638 Speaker 1: going to run into some mistakes because of that. But 665 00:32:53,678 --> 00:32:56,878 Speaker 1: nobody you can't evaluate that that there's no there's no 666 00:32:56,918 --> 00:32:58,918 Speaker 1: equation out there that's going to evaluate them. And I'll 667 00:32:58,918 --> 00:33:03,478 Speaker 1: tell you what, talk to some really good pictures when 668 00:33:03,478 --> 00:33:05,318 Speaker 1: he gets in the situation and say they're really not 669 00:33:05,398 --> 00:33:07,918 Speaker 1: proficient that holding the runners onto, they're really sold to 670 00:33:07,998 --> 00:33:11,678 Speaker 1: the plate. That really can absolutely split their concentration to 671 00:33:11,718 --> 00:33:14,438 Speaker 1: the point where your hitter is going to benefit or 672 00:33:14,518 --> 00:33:16,438 Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna get a rush throw from the 673 00:33:16,438 --> 00:33:18,398 Speaker 1: catcher and all of a sudden, runners could be on 674 00:33:18,478 --> 00:33:20,758 Speaker 1: third base. There's these are the kind of factors that 675 00:33:20,798 --> 00:33:23,758 Speaker 1: aren't even talked about that always have bothered me. So 676 00:33:24,038 --> 00:33:27,198 Speaker 1: it's the it's the unspoken part of this, it's the 677 00:33:27,358 --> 00:33:29,678 Speaker 1: subtlety of it's the layered effect of all this that's 678 00:33:29,718 --> 00:33:33,678 Speaker 1: not spoken about that can really conclude and and help 679 00:33:33,718 --> 00:33:36,238 Speaker 1: your team become successful. Last point, I was just at 680 00:33:36,238 --> 00:33:40,278 Speaker 1: a gig in Joliet, Illinois, Cardinal Country and Cubs Country, 681 00:33:40,638 --> 00:33:44,118 Speaker 1: and Eddie Spiezio was there. Scotty's dad. He played on 682 00:33:44,158 --> 00:33:47,358 Speaker 1: the sixty four World Series Cardinals. Lou Brockets traded there 683 00:33:47,398 --> 00:33:49,958 Speaker 1: from the Cubs and Lou Brockets to the Cardinals. And 684 00:33:49,998 --> 00:33:51,638 Speaker 1: he's not running that much because he was told not 685 00:33:51,678 --> 00:33:53,958 Speaker 1: to do that much running when he's with the Cubbies. 686 00:33:54,678 --> 00:33:55,838 Speaker 1: But he gets there and I don't know it was 687 00:33:55,918 --> 00:33:58,198 Speaker 1: Johnny Keene whoever calls him and say listen, or might 688 00:33:58,238 --> 00:33:59,438 Speaker 1: have been those of the players. I don't even know 689 00:33:59,478 --> 00:34:02,438 Speaker 1: what Shannon whoever, Hey, Lou, you came here for a reason. 690 00:34:02,638 --> 00:34:05,238 Speaker 1: Get out there and start running and create havoc. And 691 00:34:05,278 --> 00:34:07,998 Speaker 1: that became a hallmark of him and of that team 692 00:34:08,038 --> 00:34:10,478 Speaker 1: for years with White he did in the eighties. So 693 00:34:11,438 --> 00:34:14,118 Speaker 1: you just can't You just can't reduce it to the 694 00:34:14,118 --> 00:34:16,118 Speaker 1: point that you get thrown out. And it's a bad move. 695 00:34:16,398 --> 00:34:19,198 Speaker 1: You go, you go into team meetings prior to a series, man, 696 00:34:19,358 --> 00:34:21,518 Speaker 1: and you've got a team that's going to apply pressure. 697 00:34:21,798 --> 00:34:25,318 Speaker 1: I promise you. It causes confusion and chaos on the 698 00:34:25,358 --> 00:34:27,638 Speaker 1: defense and among the pitchers. When I was with the 699 00:34:27,718 --> 00:34:29,478 Speaker 1: Rays in two thousand and eight, we go to the 700 00:34:29,478 --> 00:34:32,358 Speaker 1: World Series, ask people what they felt about that team 701 00:34:32,398 --> 00:34:34,678 Speaker 1: between the action on the basis we even stole home 702 00:34:34,718 --> 00:34:38,798 Speaker 1: play a couple of times with Karl and in BJ 703 00:34:39,158 --> 00:34:42,678 Speaker 1: and about the safety squeeze. All these things are conspired 704 00:34:42,838 --> 00:34:45,198 Speaker 1: to help you to make you a more difficult team 705 00:34:45,438 --> 00:34:48,358 Speaker 1: to defend. And I'll argue that point with anybody. Yeah, 706 00:34:48,398 --> 00:34:50,678 Speaker 1: I love that. It's a great point. It's one of 707 00:34:50,718 --> 00:34:53,158 Speaker 1: the subtle things that maybe a fan wouldn't recognize, but 708 00:34:53,558 --> 00:34:57,598 Speaker 1: I guarantee spring training camps there's pitchers that really having 709 00:34:57,638 --> 00:35:00,358 Speaker 1: to learn relearn how to defend the running game, especially 710 00:35:00,358 --> 00:35:02,758 Speaker 1: if at the limit on pickoffs. And what happened in 711 00:35:02,798 --> 00:35:06,038 Speaker 1: the minor leagues with the p timer is that pitchers 712 00:35:06,118 --> 00:35:09,038 Speaker 1: learn that you better come set quickly. You don't want 713 00:35:09,038 --> 00:35:11,318 Speaker 1: to wait to come set when that pitch timer is 714 00:35:11,358 --> 00:35:13,718 Speaker 1: starting to run down, because then it's like that third 715 00:35:13,758 --> 00:35:16,638 Speaker 1: down rusher defensive end in the NFL, who can see 716 00:35:16,638 --> 00:35:18,998 Speaker 1: the play clock going down to one. You just take off. 717 00:35:19,238 --> 00:35:20,958 Speaker 1: You don't have to wait for a snap counter to 718 00:35:20,958 --> 00:35:23,718 Speaker 1: see the ball move. And that's for a base runner. 719 00:35:24,078 --> 00:35:26,678 Speaker 1: You know, you almost have to keep an eye on 720 00:35:26,718 --> 00:35:28,318 Speaker 1: the clock. If the guy's gonna hold it that long, 721 00:35:28,358 --> 00:35:30,718 Speaker 1: but you better come set early, and you better hold 722 00:35:30,718 --> 00:35:33,638 Speaker 1: those that second pickoff throw in your pocket just so 723 00:35:33,718 --> 00:35:36,478 Speaker 1: you have the threat of that. So there's a lot 724 00:35:36,518 --> 00:35:38,958 Speaker 1: of strategy that goes on with this. But the bottom line, 725 00:35:38,998 --> 00:35:41,158 Speaker 1: Joe is I think it's going to be more exciting. 726 00:35:41,198 --> 00:35:43,558 Speaker 1: The threat of the stolen base will come back, and 727 00:35:43,638 --> 00:35:47,038 Speaker 1: hopefully that means we're talking about defensive second baseman with 728 00:35:47,158 --> 00:35:50,358 Speaker 1: range and guys you can run. Hopefully it also means 729 00:35:50,438 --> 00:35:52,998 Speaker 1: we're going get better athletes in the game. That's be 730 00:35:53,038 --> 00:35:55,958 Speaker 1: a premium now on drafting and developing guys. You can 731 00:35:55,998 --> 00:35:59,158 Speaker 1: do more than just you know, swing upward to try 732 00:35:59,158 --> 00:36:00,398 Speaker 1: to lift the ball up in the air to hit 733 00:36:00,398 --> 00:36:02,318 Speaker 1: the ball out of the park. And I never thought 734 00:36:02,318 --> 00:36:05,598 Speaker 1: about you just said about the quicker coming set times. 735 00:36:05,638 --> 00:36:08,958 Speaker 1: That's really interesting. That's a part of the unintended consequences. 736 00:36:08,958 --> 00:36:11,398 Speaker 1: I also believe you may see more pitchouts all of 737 00:36:11,438 --> 00:36:14,518 Speaker 1: a sudden because of this. Pitchouts may take the place 738 00:36:14,518 --> 00:36:17,558 Speaker 1: of the throw over under these circumstances. And I think 739 00:36:18,118 --> 00:36:20,678 Speaker 1: if I'm running, I say a four game series, right, 740 00:36:20,798 --> 00:36:22,038 Speaker 1: I'm going to make sure I do that in the 741 00:36:22,038 --> 00:36:23,958 Speaker 1: first game of a four game series, I want to 742 00:36:23,958 --> 00:36:25,958 Speaker 1: make sure the other team sees me do that. When 743 00:36:25,998 --> 00:36:27,798 Speaker 1: I'm manage in the Texas League, they'll be five and 744 00:36:27,878 --> 00:36:30,038 Speaker 1: six game series. So if we're going to work against 745 00:36:30,038 --> 00:36:31,398 Speaker 1: a team that's going to run a lot, I want 746 00:36:31,398 --> 00:36:33,638 Speaker 1: to make sure that they knew I'm willing to pitch 747 00:36:33,678 --> 00:36:36,078 Speaker 1: out and that first game of the series, so it 748 00:36:36,118 --> 00:36:39,158 Speaker 1: could impact them not going later in the series. And furthermore, 749 00:36:39,438 --> 00:36:41,398 Speaker 1: if you've got a guy with good command like Kyle Hendricks, 750 00:36:41,398 --> 00:36:43,798 Speaker 1: I used to tell Kyle this all the time, Brother, 751 00:36:43,878 --> 00:36:45,838 Speaker 1: if I want to pitch out on a two one count, 752 00:36:46,038 --> 00:36:47,318 Speaker 1: was that going to bump you out? Is that going 753 00:36:47,358 --> 00:36:49,518 Speaker 1: to bother you? So if you could start pitching out 754 00:36:49,638 --> 00:36:54,038 Speaker 1: on counts that are typically protected counts where runners feel 755 00:36:54,158 --> 00:36:56,198 Speaker 1: very safe, and you do that a couple of times, 756 00:36:56,558 --> 00:36:58,518 Speaker 1: that also a planned for seeded doubts. So these are 757 00:36:58,558 --> 00:37:00,678 Speaker 1: the kind of things you're gonna have to you're gonna 758 00:37:00,678 --> 00:37:03,598 Speaker 1: probably see or should see this year. And again last point, 759 00:37:04,198 --> 00:37:06,798 Speaker 1: either you're going to see better deliveries. I like quicker 760 00:37:07,198 --> 00:37:08,958 Speaker 1: quick step to the plate. I think quick step to 761 00:37:09,038 --> 00:37:11,038 Speaker 1: the plate, arm is up and out, sooner you're going 762 00:37:11,078 --> 00:37:13,518 Speaker 1: to see a better delivery. Without loss of stuff. A 763 00:37:13,638 --> 00:37:16,518 Speaker 1: good point. And I'll add one more thing, re emphasis 764 00:37:16,558 --> 00:37:19,918 Speaker 1: on catcher's throwing ability. But Kettrick can pick anytime as 765 00:37:19,918 --> 00:37:22,678 Speaker 1: many times as he wants on those back picks. But 766 00:37:22,758 --> 00:37:25,078 Speaker 1: with more stolen base attempts, I think he will get 767 00:37:25,118 --> 00:37:28,598 Speaker 1: those stolen base attempts. You're gonna need somebody who can 768 00:37:28,718 --> 00:37:32,518 Speaker 1: throw the ball accurately and strongly. So add it up 769 00:37:32,558 --> 00:37:35,238 Speaker 1: for me, Joe. And as I've said on the air, 770 00:37:35,638 --> 00:37:38,478 Speaker 1: I haven't looked forward to a baseball season this much 771 00:37:39,118 --> 00:37:42,318 Speaker 1: since they invented nachos and those plastic helmets you can 772 00:37:42,398 --> 00:37:44,998 Speaker 1: take home. I mean, this is I really think this 773 00:37:45,078 --> 00:37:48,358 Speaker 1: is getting this a little closer back to probably the 774 00:37:48,398 --> 00:37:50,638 Speaker 1: best baseball it was played in the nineteen eighties. I 775 00:37:50,638 --> 00:37:53,078 Speaker 1: would say it was the most diverse game when it 776 00:37:53,118 --> 00:37:56,238 Speaker 1: comes to styles of play, the most athletic game. We 777 00:37:56,318 --> 00:37:59,878 Speaker 1: didn't have strikeouts over a twenty percent rate back then, 778 00:37:59,958 --> 00:38:01,918 Speaker 1: so I think you may see more balls in play. 779 00:38:02,398 --> 00:38:04,518 Speaker 1: And hey, if you're going to a game on a 780 00:38:04,758 --> 00:38:07,518 Speaker 1: school night, early in the season or late in the season, 781 00:38:07,518 --> 00:38:09,238 Speaker 1: you can take your kids knowing you'll be out of 782 00:38:09,238 --> 00:38:11,798 Speaker 1: there at a decent hour. How about that, Well, you 783 00:38:11,878 --> 00:38:13,758 Speaker 1: just you just brought up the decade that I earned 784 00:38:13,798 --> 00:38:17,318 Speaker 1: my craft, the eighties. I'm definitely kind of a millennial 785 00:38:17,598 --> 00:38:20,398 Speaker 1: baseball mind because it was the eighties that I really 786 00:38:20,518 --> 00:38:22,758 Speaker 1: was formed as a coach and a manager and a scout. 787 00:38:23,198 --> 00:38:25,798 Speaker 1: And I cannot disagree. Maybe that's where my influence not 788 00:38:25,798 --> 00:38:28,278 Speaker 1: maybe that's where my influence comes from. I do believe 789 00:38:28,358 --> 00:38:30,958 Speaker 1: that that was really, and I know is of extremely 790 00:38:31,078 --> 00:38:34,158 Speaker 1: entertaining period within the game of Basebine. It felt very 791 00:38:34,198 --> 00:38:36,598 Speaker 1: fortunate to be part of it. Yeah, the World Series 792 00:38:36,718 --> 00:38:40,718 Speaker 1: ratings were, you know, they were just really out of control. 793 00:38:41,438 --> 00:38:43,718 Speaker 1: I know the world is different than in terms of options, 794 00:38:44,518 --> 00:38:47,118 Speaker 1: but Hollywood is cranking out a baseball movie. It seemed 795 00:38:47,158 --> 00:38:49,838 Speaker 1: like every month that was a real heyday for the game. 796 00:38:50,558 --> 00:38:53,838 Speaker 1: Speaking of which a producer, Vince wanted to know, Like, 797 00:38:53,838 --> 00:38:56,358 Speaker 1: we haven't talked about rock and roll for a while, Oh, 798 00:38:56,358 --> 00:38:59,118 Speaker 1: so what do you got planned these days? If you 799 00:38:59,278 --> 00:39:03,078 Speaker 1: discovered rediscovering anything from your beautiful decade of the eighties 800 00:39:03,158 --> 00:39:08,318 Speaker 1: or prior musically speaking, Wow, Um, I can't say rediscovered. 801 00:39:08,478 --> 00:39:10,838 Speaker 1: I mean, I um, you know what I like. I 802 00:39:10,918 --> 00:39:14,478 Speaker 1: was talking about my terrific experience flying home from Savannah 803 00:39:14,518 --> 00:39:17,238 Speaker 1: the other day. Oh, yes, it's a beautiful trip you had. Yeah, 804 00:39:17,318 --> 00:39:21,198 Speaker 1: what I needed was some solace on the airplane and 805 00:39:21,558 --> 00:39:26,158 Speaker 1: the interlude there to settle down, deep breathing, reassign big 806 00:39:26,238 --> 00:39:28,318 Speaker 1: dude in front of me pushing back on his seat. 807 00:39:28,398 --> 00:39:31,598 Speaker 1: But literally, I don't know three or four inches room 808 00:39:31,638 --> 00:39:34,078 Speaker 1: to spare, So I went right by you need it, 809 00:39:34,158 --> 00:39:37,038 Speaker 1: like Anya on your mind. I bought the next best thing, 810 00:39:37,198 --> 00:39:39,918 Speaker 1: next best thing, Linda ron Stat. I'm such a Linda 811 00:39:40,038 --> 00:39:42,638 Speaker 1: ron Stat freak, and so I just sat there and 812 00:39:42,718 --> 00:39:45,398 Speaker 1: I kept listening to Linda ron Stats. She settled me down. 813 00:39:45,798 --> 00:39:47,438 Speaker 1: This is a lady I've been wanting to meet, but 814 00:39:47,518 --> 00:39:50,118 Speaker 1: of course she's been ill and I, uh, you know, 815 00:39:50,238 --> 00:39:52,318 Speaker 1: could not happen. I thought this might be the time 816 00:39:52,638 --> 00:39:54,358 Speaker 1: when I got out back with the angels. But Linda 817 00:39:54,438 --> 00:39:57,398 Speaker 1: ron Stat, to me, is one of the best voices ever. 818 00:39:57,638 --> 00:39:59,638 Speaker 1: And there's nothing that she did that I can't listen to. 819 00:39:59,638 --> 00:40:02,998 Speaker 1: Whether it's her Spanish music and of course even some 820 00:40:03,078 --> 00:40:05,478 Speaker 1: of her opera, radic music, and of course all this 821 00:40:05,558 --> 00:40:08,438 Speaker 1: stuff back from the Stone Ponies and stuff. Uh, this 822 00:40:08,518 --> 00:40:11,158 Speaker 1: girl gets me in the right mood all the time. 823 00:40:11,238 --> 00:40:14,318 Speaker 1: So more recently, when you're when you're a little bit 824 00:40:14,318 --> 00:40:17,198 Speaker 1: stressed out for me. Just pop some Lynda on on 825 00:40:17,198 --> 00:40:19,078 Speaker 1: whatever and some good it's got to be some good 826 00:40:19,078 --> 00:40:22,798 Speaker 1: sound too. One of the best voices ever, I believe. Yeah, 827 00:40:22,798 --> 00:40:25,038 Speaker 1: a good call. And when you mentioned Linda ron Stat, 828 00:40:25,078 --> 00:40:29,358 Speaker 1: I immediately thought of Tim McCarver, the late great Tim McCarver. Yeah, 829 00:40:29,478 --> 00:40:32,558 Speaker 1: you know, he was a master of wordplay. Sometime cornball humor, 830 00:40:32,678 --> 00:40:34,758 Speaker 1: I get it, but it would put a smile on 831 00:40:34,798 --> 00:40:36,878 Speaker 1: your face anyway. And he always had this line if 832 00:40:36,878 --> 00:40:39,478 Speaker 1: a guy was laid on a fastball, he's that was 833 00:40:39,518 --> 00:40:43,678 Speaker 1: a Linda Ronstat fastball blew by you. That was a 834 00:40:43,718 --> 00:40:46,638 Speaker 1: big part of the nineteen seventies in the minor league. 835 00:40:46,878 --> 00:40:50,998 Speaker 1: A catcher. Absolutely, well, it's this was fun. We're gonna 836 00:40:51,038 --> 00:40:54,118 Speaker 1: revisit these role changes, Joe. I mean, going in, like 837 00:40:54,158 --> 00:40:56,838 Speaker 1: you said, we think we know what we like and 838 00:40:56,918 --> 00:41:00,558 Speaker 1: what we don't like, and then there was always unintended consequences. 839 00:41:00,558 --> 00:41:03,758 Speaker 1: So we will revisit that once baseball gets underway. But 840 00:41:03,758 --> 00:41:06,838 Speaker 1: I'm pumped about it, and hopefully you've got something to 841 00:41:06,838 --> 00:41:08,798 Speaker 1: take us out here, Joe, I do. First of all, 842 00:41:08,798 --> 00:41:10,838 Speaker 1: it's too bad Joe West isn't around to interpret all 843 00:41:10,838 --> 00:41:13,958 Speaker 1: this stuff, and number two. You know, I was going 844 00:41:13,998 --> 00:41:15,718 Speaker 1: through a couple of different things and I've settled down 845 00:41:15,758 --> 00:41:18,638 Speaker 1: one of my favorites, Mark Twain, and I think this 846 00:41:18,798 --> 00:41:22,718 Speaker 1: is It's kind of applies to my overarching philosophy of life, 847 00:41:22,878 --> 00:41:25,398 Speaker 1: and it comes down to whenever you find yourself on 848 00:41:25,438 --> 00:41:28,238 Speaker 1: the side of the majority, it is time to pause 849 00:41:28,238 --> 00:41:33,038 Speaker 1: and reflect. Amen. Oh, I love that. I love that, 850 00:41:33,118 --> 00:41:35,038 Speaker 1: and he's one of my favorites. That's a great call. 851 00:41:35,238 --> 00:41:37,318 Speaker 1: Look forward to the next time. Joe. Thanks, Thanks brother, 852 00:41:37,398 --> 00:41:46,678 Speaker 1: nice job. Appreciate it. The Book of Joe podcast is 853 00:41:46,678 --> 00:41:50,478 Speaker 1: a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts for my heart Radio, 854 00:41:50,678 --> 00:41:54,638 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get 855 00:41:54,678 --> 00:41:55,438 Speaker 1: your podcasts.