Speaker 1: It's not just one white man writing a story from
Speaker 1: a white man's perspective, handing it to another white news
Speaker 1: anchor to deliver on an entirely white friend major network.
Speaker 2: There are no Girls on the Internet. As a production
Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridge Todd, and this
Speaker 2: is there are no girls on the Internet. I grew
Speaker 2: up in a newspaper family, and in fact, our family
Speaker 2: always got two copies of our local newspaper, one for
Speaker 2: the family and another one just for my dad that
Speaker 2: none of us were supposed to rifle through. I guess
Speaker 2: because the man really enjoyed having a crisp, fresh newspaper
Speaker 2: all to himself. But that was a long time ago. Today,
Speaker 2: lesson less people are getting their news from traditional sources
Speaker 2: like a newspaper or a mainstream media outlet. Instead, they're
Speaker 2: getting their news from podcasts hey like the one you're
Speaker 2: listening to right now, and from content creators on social media.
Speaker 2: And if you've gotten your news on TikTok, odds are
Speaker 2: you've seen Vita spear from under the desk news. That
Speaker 2: title under the desk is literal by the way, v
Speaker 2: actually gets down under their desk to tell their three
Speaker 2: million followers on TikTok what they need to know. And
Speaker 2: it started during the height of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: We were seeing a lot of journalists working from home,
Speaker 1: and so I didn't want to blur this line of
Speaker 1: like being some super serious journalist who was just working
Speaker 1: from home because of you know, the pandemic, And so
Speaker 1: I got under my desk to create this kind of
Speaker 1: safe place where we could have like a secret and
Speaker 1: talk about the news in a way that wasn't going
Speaker 1: to be scary to people, that wasn't sensationalized. And that
Speaker 1: just kind of was what I would do, you know,
Speaker 1: if I was still in the office, Like if I
Speaker 1: had a water cooler in my home, I probably would
Speaker 1: have been water cooler talk, but I didn't, So I
Speaker 1: just had the under the desk space that was like
Speaker 1: the ethos and the idea of like why under a desk?
Speaker 2: Going back to that time where we all were sort
Speaker 2: of emotionally, that's when doom scrolling became a thing and
Speaker 2: the news, Yeah, it was like you couldn't if you
Speaker 2: opened up a news app, you were like opening up
Speaker 2: this whole rush of emotions. Many of them were like bad, scary,
Speaker 2: big and so your voice was really one that was calming.
Speaker 2: It was soothing. It was like, here's the stuff you
Speaker 2: need to know, but you don't need to freak out.
Speaker 2: Here's some information. Is that the vibe you were intentionally
Speaker 2: trying to cultivate.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the originality of it, because I mean,
Speaker 1: if you think about we went into our homes in March.
Speaker 1: I started the TikTok in like March or April. And
Speaker 1: I actually used to do cooking content when I first started,
Speaker 1: because I was working for the James Beard Foundation, which
Speaker 1: is like a big chef organization, and I was trying
Speaker 1: to tell the chefs about how to apply for PPV
Speaker 1: loans and like eidl and shuttered venue. And at that time,
Speaker 1: like on TikTok, you had to have like a kitchy thing.
Speaker 1: So I would like throw butter from across my room
Speaker 1: into the pan, and I would like make the hamburgers
Speaker 1: slap in the air, and like, I was so ridiculous.
Speaker 1: And I would be teaching people about these government programs
Speaker 1: and that kind of led into explaining the Cares Act,
Speaker 1: and then that led into the election, and then that
Speaker 1: led into January sixth, Joe Biden's first hundred days the
Speaker 1: pull out of Afghanistan. I mean, there was just like
Speaker 1: always something else that was really scary that watching the
Speaker 1: news was stressing me out because I'd have to watch
Speaker 1: for like hours before I just found out what happened,
Speaker 1: you know, just give it to me, tell me quickly
Speaker 1: what happened. And so I felt like I could create
Speaker 1: this space to kind of catch people up quickly and
Speaker 1: help bring them back to the news in a way
Speaker 1: that wasn't requiring such a commitment from them, both emotionally
Speaker 1: and time wise. You've kind of become a go to
Speaker 1: news source for TikTok. Like when I think about people
Speaker 1: who make news on TikTok, I think of you specifically.
Speaker 1: Why do you think that TikTok is a platform that
Speaker 1: is conducive to people getting their news in like a
Speaker 1: specific kind of way. It's not a newsreader, you know,
Speaker 1: so detached from the feeling of the emotion.
Speaker 2: There's a real relationship that's being built. Why do you
Speaker 2: think that folks on TikTok are looking for that or
Speaker 2: that's taken off on the platform.
Speaker 1: So a lot of the way that I do the
Speaker 1: news is based on the way that I grew up.
Speaker 1: And my mom is who I call the original citizen
Speaker 1: journalist because she used to be home and I remember
Speaker 1: the year that she bought a police scanner and she
Speaker 1: would just sit with her girlfriends and like drink coffee
Speaker 1: and smoke Virginia Slims and like listen to the police
Speaker 1: scanner it and then my dad had come home and
Speaker 1: she'd be like, Oh my god, Paul, you're not going
Speaker 1: to believe it. You're not going to believe it. And
Speaker 1: she would like go around and like look for the
Speaker 1: police or like they just you know, in our little town.
Speaker 1: It was like a goofy kind of thing to do,
Speaker 1: and like how much crime was really happening.
Speaker 3: There wasn't really that much, but.
Speaker 1: She would like report back to him all the things
Speaker 1: that happened. And I think that people love that, They've
Speaker 1: loved that forever. People love getting their news from their peers,
Speaker 1: catching up with the girls, like just talking about what's.
Speaker 3: Going on in the world.
Speaker 1: And so I think on TikTok we get that kind
Speaker 1: of feeling, and especially at a time most of us
Speaker 1: started during the pandemic, we kind of trauma bonded, right.
Speaker 1: This is where we were connecting with people where we
Speaker 1: were building friendships and learning things, and so I think
Speaker 1: it's a thing that's always been a thing where you'd
Speaker 1: rather hear it from a friend, then you'd rather hear
Speaker 1: it from like some stodgy person on the evening news
Speaker 1: telling you, like, you know, it's ten pm, do you
Speaker 1: know where your children are? And like scaring all the time?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 2: So, yeah, moms knows. The moms who want to know
Speaker 2: what's going on in their neighborhood were the original newsbreakers,
Speaker 2: the original social media networks.
Speaker 3: Ask a mom, yep, yep.
Speaker 2: America. America has a problem trust. It turns out that
Speaker 2: Americans confidence in newspapers and television news has plummeted to
Speaker 2: an all time low. This is according to a Gallup
Speaker 2: survey on trust in the United States as Institutions conducted
Speaker 2: last year. Now does trust in media might conjure up
Speaker 2: ideas of right wingers who hate c and ed and
Speaker 2: all yours, But it's more than that, because many of
Speaker 2: us have watched mainstream media outlets fail to thoughtfully cover
Speaker 2: our issues, and for marginalized communities like women, trans folks,
Speaker 2: black folks, queer folks, disabled folks, this really matters. It
Speaker 2: can be life or death. But maybe social media can
Speaker 2: present a solution because listen to this. Pew found that
Speaker 2: US adults under thirty now trust information from social media
Speaker 2: almost as much from national news outlets. So if you're
Speaker 2: somebody like the this is a real opportunity to tell
Speaker 2: authentic stories. I don't think I have to tell you
Speaker 2: that distrust in traditional news networks is like really high,
Speaker 2: particularly with marginalized folks, young people, gen Z. Why do
Speaker 2: you think that is.
Speaker 4: So?
Speaker 1: What I find interesting about that is a lot of
Speaker 1: the news that I'm bringing people is coming from these
Speaker 1: legacy media organizations. I mean, now is the face of
Speaker 1: the La Times TikTok for six months and it greatly
Speaker 1: improved their sort of relationship with the audience. Sometimes I'm
Speaker 1: pulling things up from the Washington Post or the New
Speaker 1: York Times, like these big legacy organizations. I think the
Speaker 1: difference here is I do believe that people trust reporters.
Speaker 1: I think if they could meet Aaron Logan from the
Speaker 1: La Times, they would feel differently about her reporting than
Speaker 1: when they just read it in the newspaper, and they
Speaker 1: sort of ascribe, like whatever bias they have to that
Speaker 1: newspaper onto her reporting as an example, I think we
Speaker 1: have seen this rise in advertising. We know that there
Speaker 1: are certain channels that are bought. We know that the
Speaker 1: goal isn't necessarily to inform the way that the news
Speaker 1: used to be, but since we've been on this twenty
Speaker 1: four hour cycle, the goal is to occupy your time
Speaker 1: and keep eyeballs on you so that they can advertise.
Speaker 1: And that's a problem across all platforms, right, like this
Speaker 1: idea that your ability to communicate is directly related to
Speaker 1: your ability to fundraise or to get advertisers, or to
Speaker 1: raise money and stuff. And so I think that's where
Speaker 1: the distrust comes from, is people feeling like these big
Speaker 1: legacy organizations are out of time much. They're using words
Speaker 1: that are too academic for the average person. They're talking
Speaker 1: about things that are too high level for what we
Speaker 1: need to know and deal with today. They feel like
Speaker 1: they're protecting the other side. I was having a conversation
Speaker 1: recently with Sam Woollie, who's a professor at the University
Speaker 1: of Austin. He talks about propaganda, and he was talking
Speaker 1: about how a lot of distrust in the media has
Speaker 1: come from the idea that journalism is supposed to be
Speaker 1: both sides totally objective, and you can't be when social
Speaker 1: issues lead the current news cycle. When we're talking about
Speaker 1: scientific research, sure we could say, should we be gena
Speaker 1: editing humans?
Speaker 3: I don't know, but we are.
Speaker 1: That's a good both sides, right, But when we're talking
Speaker 1: about the realistic existence of trans people, well we can't
Speaker 1: both sides that. And I think when people try to
Speaker 1: both sides that they think that these newspapers don't have
Speaker 1: a strong point of view, they're not standing on the
Speaker 1: right side of history, whatever the case may be, or
Speaker 1: they're leading.
Speaker 3: Too far to the left and they've gone woke.
Speaker 1: And so I think a lot of it is because
Speaker 1: social issues are leading the news right now that there's
Speaker 1: a lot of distrust. But I do believe that individual
Speaker 1: reporters still hold a ton of credibility with the public.
Speaker 2: I was at a panel recently, like a journalism panel,
Speaker 2: and someone mentioned this reporter Phil Lewis, who was like
Speaker 2: big on Twitter, always like the big news, He's always
Speaker 2: tweeting about it. And they were like, Okay, so this
Speaker 2: is someone that you are familiar with, You follow this person,
Speaker 2: you trust this person. Do you know what news out
Speaker 2: what they write for? And I was like, no, and
Speaker 2: he was like, the AP would never have been a
Speaker 2: million years of guessed that. And it's like, clearly, it's
Speaker 2: not that Phil works for the AP or is representing
Speaker 2: the AP. I have in my mind turned Phil into
Speaker 2: like black Twitter's town crier or whatever. And it's like
Speaker 2: it has nothing to do with the outlet that Phil
Speaker 2: is at his everything to do with the relationship that
Speaker 2: I feel like I have when I see Phil in
Speaker 2: my feet. So I think that you're exactly right. I
Speaker 2: also think there's really something to this idea about how
Speaker 2: we've gotten to this place where journalists, or maybe it's
Speaker 2: not even journalists, maybe it's media outlets feel like it's
Speaker 2: their job to give both sides of issues that really
Speaker 2: don't have two sides to it, right. Like that's been
Speaker 2: a real frustration of mine where I'll be like, oh,
Speaker 2: this transperson wants to have rights, people on the other
Speaker 2: side say they should all be killed. The truth is
Speaker 2: probably somewhere in the middle, and it's like, no, it's
Speaker 2: really not. It's really and you're doing folks a disservice
Speaker 2: when you train them. But like this is what good
Speaker 2: journalism is. Good journalism does not try to find the
Speaker 2: middle ground of of like a position that doesn't necessarily
Speaker 2: even have two sides, Like, how do we get out
Speaker 2: of that trap that trains people that this is what
Speaker 2: good journalism is.
Speaker 1: So I think that we're going to have a longer
Speaker 1: road because we were also in a day and age
Speaker 1: where I can make anything true. I can make anything true.
Speaker 1: You can find something that looks very official journalism, very
Speaker 1: official newspaper, news whose outlet, something that's called like the
Speaker 1: Daily Caller, or like the Telegram, or you know, I
Speaker 1: mean that sounds like a legit newspaper. It's all lined up,
Speaker 1: it's got the columns right, the pictures are right, looks good.
Speaker 3: You can make anything true.
Speaker 1: And so as long as we live in a world
Speaker 1: where we can make anything true and the truth is
Speaker 1: so flexible in fact that it is more based on
Speaker 1: the opinion and what will be received as opposed to
Speaker 1: like what is objectively true, we're going to continue to
Speaker 1: have a lot of problems with people feeling like they
Speaker 1: can't trust journalism, or like there's both sides of it,
Speaker 1: or everything is true, because there's no solid consensus on
Speaker 1: anything at all. And that's sort of the nonsense that
Speaker 1: I try to deal with on under the desk is.
Speaker 3: People will be like, why don't you talk about this?
Speaker 1: And I'm like, there's no way I can talk about
Speaker 1: that without just descending into absolute madness because it's too
Speaker 1: much of a third real topic. And people have built
Speaker 1: their religion into the way they receive news now, or
Speaker 1: they're perceived religion into the way they receive news now,
Speaker 1: and so it's just people forcing something to be true,
Speaker 1: whether it is or not. And I think we have
Speaker 1: to fight that before we can expect journalists to keep
Speaker 1: up with that.
Speaker 2: Do you think in some ways we're like beyond truth?
Speaker 2: Sometimes I worry that we're just in this new era
Speaker 2: where it doesn't really matter ultimately. It doesn't really matter
Speaker 2: if something is actually true or not, even things that
Speaker 2: can and cannot and like can and cannot be objectively true,
Speaker 2: because that's not what we're really arguing about. We're arguing
Speaker 2: about people's identities and their ideologies and their values and
Speaker 2: what they feel and all of these perceptions, and it
Speaker 2: kind of doesn't matter ultimately if the thing is true.
Speaker 2: Do you ever feel that way?
Speaker 1: I do so, and I think that we can fix it,
Speaker 1: but I think we have to be able to name
Speaker 1: it so like, for me, the Buffalo Bills are the
Speaker 1: greatest football team that have ever played the game. You
Speaker 1: can't tell me nothing about the Buffalo Bills, right, they're
Speaker 1: the best. When they lose, it wasn't their fat. Else
Speaker 1: when they win, it's because God himself was on the
Speaker 1: field that day with Josh Allen, Right, Like, I love
Speaker 1: the Bills unreasonably with no end in sight. Okay, And
Speaker 1: that is normal for a sports fan. That is not
Speaker 1: normal for us to ascribe to politicians. There is not
Speaker 1: one politician that should walk the way, the way that
Speaker 1: should be treated the way that we treat our sports teams.
Speaker 1: And we've also taken the truth and made it a
Speaker 1: matter of who is winning the truth. Right, So you
Speaker 1: take a politician or you take a public figure, and
Speaker 1: we have a truth about them. They were found liable
Speaker 1: of sexual assault, right, So that's a truth, that's a
Speaker 1: fact that happened. But that's your team, that's your guy.
Speaker 1: So you're going to make every excuse about like why
Speaker 1: that might be a little less true or why that
Speaker 1: doesn't matter in the long run. And that's a problem too.
Speaker 1: And this has all been done on purpose, right since
Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, and and for the lot for centuries
Speaker 1: upon centuries, this has been done right.
Speaker 3: This is just human nature. But what they've done.
Speaker 1: So well right now is this division of media outlets
Speaker 1: where you have like your left wing outlets and your
Speaker 1: right wing outlets, and they're fighting like sports teams. And
Speaker 1: so because you have triggered this like protective fan instinct
Speaker 1: in people, they're going to defend their team, their guy,
Speaker 1: their gods, the way that they do with religion in sports,
Speaker 1: as opposed to keeping an objective lens on accountability when
Speaker 1: it comes to public figures and politicians. And so I
Speaker 1: think if we know that that's what's happening to people
Speaker 1: when they're receiving stories, we can adjust the way we're
Speaker 1: telling the story to make it make sense to that
Speaker 1: person and kind of break that haze that a lot
Speaker 1: of folks have on public figures.
Speaker 2: Let's take a.
Speaker 4: Quick break at our back.
Speaker 2: I never thought i'd see the day where people were
Speaker 2: like I hate CNN or like this news outlet, like
Speaker 2: it just yah, they're not sports teams. And it's so
Speaker 2: curious that we're in this day and age where where
Speaker 2: you get your news it's like something to be defended
Speaker 2: about you it's like, no, not even about the news
Speaker 2: that they create, Like it's such a weird position that
Speaker 2: we find ourselves in this day and age.
Speaker 1: It's obsessive, it's intentionally addictive. They've used all of the
Speaker 1: things that used to make us addicted to making sure
Speaker 1: we watch TGIF every single Friday night or we never
Speaker 1: missed an episode of The Bachelor, and they've built that
Speaker 1: into the ways that they news program now, so you're
Speaker 1: just as addicted to those programs and to that information
Speaker 1: as you would be your favorite television show or scary movies.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you want to see that next
Speaker 1: one that's coming out right away, right away. And so
Speaker 1: I think those are the things that we have to
Speaker 1: kind of overcome when it comes to media, and then
Speaker 1: we also have to overcome this feeling of better than
Speaker 1: that a lot of journalists have. I've been asking myself
Speaker 1: a lot what is a journalism? Like what is a journalism?
Speaker 1: Because there are some people who look at what I
Speaker 1: do and they're like, now you're a hack who reads headlines,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, And then there are other people
Speaker 1: who are like this is incredible new media. And then
Speaker 1: there are other people who are like well, the original
Speaker 1: reporting you do on the podcast kind of cancels out
Speaker 1: the fact that your TikTok is corny, and there are
Speaker 1: other people who are like, well, your TikTok reaches more
Speaker 1: people and has a higher finish rate than any other
Speaker 1: news outlet on TikTok, And I'm like, okay, so what
Speaker 1: is it like? But everyone's still trying to decide have
Speaker 1: I earned the right to be a part of journalism
Speaker 1: right because that industry has been so gate kept and
Speaker 1: so academicized, which is not a word, but it is
Speaker 1: now where it's like people, you know, I don't claim
Speaker 1: to rival Taylor Therenz when it comes to investigative reporting
Speaker 1: on the Internet, but both of us are really important
Speaker 1: to it getting to the public. Taylor can write something
Speaker 1: that's out and we're friends, which I'm bringing her up
Speaker 1: as an example. Taylor can write something that took her
Speaker 1: months that the Washington Post has paid her to write,
Speaker 1: to investigate, to take that time to use those resources
Speaker 1: to get this incredible story together. If she can't connect
Speaker 1: with the audience because she was building that huge story
Speaker 1: and she was busy, then who's going to deliver it
Speaker 1: to them? To sort of direct people in the direction
Speaker 1: of that piece. So it takes a lot of different
Speaker 1: folks to make journalism work nowadays. And I think that's
Speaker 1: a good thing if we could all embrace it and
Speaker 1: understand our place within it. Because it's not just one
Speaker 1: white man writing a story from a white man's perspective
Speaker 1: handing it to another white news anchor to deliver on
Speaker 1: an entirely white friend major network.
Speaker 3: And that's good.
Speaker 1: Like, these are good problems to have, but I think
Speaker 1: we need to start thinking about what is a journalism,
Speaker 1: who is a journalist, and why we are so gatekeepy
Speaker 1: about that industry. Like I fighting go to Columbia School
Speaker 1: of Journalism or the best question I get all the time,
Speaker 1: did you go to Jay's School?
Speaker 3: First of all, I was like, yeah, I don't know, Like,
Speaker 3: so what is it? I'm like, what is Jay School?
Speaker 2: Like? I went to theater.
Speaker 1: School and then I went to business school. I was
Speaker 1: like Jay's school. I'm like Jesuit school. I couldn't I
Speaker 1: couldn't picture what it was.
Speaker 2: That's amazing. You know, did you want to be in
Speaker 2: journalism when you were younger? Did you see yourself being
Speaker 2: in the role that you are today?
Speaker 1: I have always been really good at explaining things, and
Speaker 1: I've always been a negotiator. And before I was doing
Speaker 1: what I do now, I worked in food policy a lot.
Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated about history and politics and just
Speaker 1: more the society dynamics of the world. I would say,
Speaker 1: is like more what I'm interested in, and that's kind
Speaker 1: of what I speak to. So now I'm doing the news,
Speaker 1: but the news is always coming from like a society lens.
Speaker 1: How does this affect people not necessarily, how does this
Speaker 1: affect processes? Or how does this affect politics? And so
Speaker 1: I have always been like this. I did not imagine
Speaker 1: that I would be like a news anchor. But what's
Speaker 1: kind of funny is my pledge sister from my sorority
Speaker 1: is also a news anchor in Seattle, and she's like, yeah, no,
Speaker 1: this makes sense for us.
Speaker 3: I don't know why.
Speaker 1: We were just best friends and both ended up like
Speaker 1: kind of as news anchors. I mean, she's like the
Speaker 1: nightly news anchor in Seattle. But I think I have
Speaker 1: a performance background. I have a theater background. I'm very
Speaker 1: good at understanding big concepts very quickly. I'm used to
Speaker 1: explaining things that are very complicated, like I used to
Speaker 1: explain food policy to chefs, and I love this work,
Speaker 1: and I love connecting with people, and I love being
Speaker 1: a helper, and so in those ways, I think I
Speaker 1: see myself fitting into this world. And this is the
Speaker 1: dream that I always had. I just didn't know it
Speaker 1: was going to come in this can.
Speaker 2: I think you have a gift for spreading a message
Speaker 2: and spreading information and really making people connect and care,
Speaker 2: you know, dissemination, And to your point about how so
Speaker 2: much of media can turn people off, it really speaks
Speaker 2: to the importance of dissemination because I get sit down
Speaker 2: and write the most compelling, nuanced, well researched piece on
Speaker 2: an issue in the New York Times. But some people
Speaker 2: are just never going to be the type of people
Speaker 2: who pick up a New York Times newspaper, so that
Speaker 2: message isn't getting to everybody who needs to hear it.
Speaker 2: Something that we've just started doing recently on this podcast,
Speaker 2: which is in addition to the sort of in depth
Speaker 2: interviews like the one that you're on right now, we
Speaker 2: also do these weekly news roundups where big issues around
Speaker 2: technology and the Internet and how it's legislated we are
Speaker 2: summarizing and making accessible now we're obviously just summarizing headlines
Speaker 2: and stories written by other people, but we try to
Speaker 2: put it in everyday language, make it accessible and give
Speaker 2: people the context. And I really feel like when it
Speaker 2: comes to tech, especially, there is something about the way
Speaker 2: that these stories are framed that just, I don't know,
Speaker 2: it just always turned me off. And if it's turning
Speaker 2: me off, it's probably turning a lot of other folks
Speaker 2: off too, so they just end up tuning it out
Speaker 2: when they actually really need to hear it. And yeah,
Speaker 2: most of these stories, in the way they were framed
Speaker 2: and written, just did not speak to me as a
Speaker 2: black woman. You know. Take AI for instance. Someone will
Speaker 2: be reporting on AI and they would be talking about
Speaker 2: it like a business story rather than how will this
Speaker 2: technology impact me as somebody who was marginalized and disproportionately
Speaker 2: harmed by technology? And sometimes it seems like these stories
Speaker 2: were written in a way that ends up just shutting
Speaker 2: people out who actually need to hear it. And we've
Speaker 2: gotten a tremendous response from doing the news roundoms in
Speaker 2: this way because I think people really want accessible kind
Speaker 2: of like here's what you need to know, here's how
Speaker 2: it will impact you. Coverage of important stories. You know,
Speaker 2: that's what folks are really looking for. They don't want
Speaker 2: to be scared into paying attention or guilted into paying attention.
Speaker 2: They just want to know, Okay, what's going on? What
Speaker 2: do I need to know? How will impact me? How
Speaker 2: should I be thinking about it? How can I contextualize it?
Speaker 2: How should I internalize it? And this is what I
Speaker 2: think so many media outlets are just failing to do
Speaker 2: for people who actually really do want it.
Speaker 1: So that and that speaks to lived experience, right, Like
Speaker 1: I always had a work, so I didn't have time.
Speaker 1: Even in college, I had to work. I couldn't possibly
Speaker 1: so I never developed the skill to sit down on
Speaker 1: Sunday or at the end of my day or at
Speaker 1: the beginning of my day and really get into reading
Speaker 1: something and like really giving myself time to reflect on
Speaker 1: that something.
Speaker 3: I don't have a lot of time.
Speaker 1: But a lot of the people who get to speak,
Speaker 1: and a lot of the people that get platform and
Speaker 1: get to write, did have that experience because they immerse
Speaker 1: themselves culturally in that kind of time. They had that
Speaker 1: kind of time. I didn't have that kind of time.
Speaker 1: And so now they're writing, and they're writing expecting that
Speaker 1: the audience has had a similar walk of life that
Speaker 1: they did and they didn't. And so that's why for me,
Speaker 1: the news is so quick at the end of the night,
Speaker 1: because I'm like, I got to tell you what you
Speaker 1: got to know in a minute and a half because
Speaker 1: we got kids to feed, we got homework to do,
Speaker 1: or I've got another job to get to, or I've
Speaker 1: got like my wife has rehearsal tomorrow night. So I'm
Speaker 1: trying to like make sure I do the news before
Speaker 1: I drive a rehearsal. Like, there's all kinds of stuff
Speaker 1: that we do, especially from marginalized groups, that take up
Speaker 1: more of our time, that give us less time to reflect.
Speaker 1: So if I could get you something fast that's going
Speaker 1: to tell you how it's going to affect you, and
Speaker 1: then you can just refer like on that one part
Speaker 1: or something. Now we've sort of like helped people catch
Speaker 1: up with the folks who have all this leisure time
Speaker 1: to dive into the theology of what's going on.
Speaker 2: You know. Yes, I used to watch shows like Sex
Speaker 2: and the City or like movies that took place in
Speaker 2: New York and it would be like, oh, I'm just
Speaker 2: sitting around with my stack of like magazines and newspapers,
Speaker 2: and it's like, who's doing that? Like what adult has
Speaker 2: time to sit around with their like coffee and their
Speaker 2: five newspapers and just pour through them.
Speaker 1: I lived in New York for a number of years
Speaker 1: during and after college, and so many people nowadays, like
Speaker 1: because I'm an elder millennial will be like, yeah, I
Speaker 1: remember when we used to like watch friends, remember Sex
Speaker 1: and the City. Originally, I'm like, no, girl, I had
Speaker 1: a work, I never was home at night to watch
Speaker 1: I never watched The Office.
Speaker 3: I never watched any of these shows.
Speaker 1: The last sitcom I watched was Seinfeldt because I was
Speaker 1: in high school and like maybe I had time to
Speaker 1: watch that with my dad if I was up late, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I never watched any of these shows about New York
Speaker 1: because I lived there and I had I have a
Speaker 1: lot of jobs, and people who.
Speaker 2: Are like creating the fantasy of like what life looks
Speaker 2: like there. It's like no people who actually are here.
Speaker 3: They live in Ohio.
Speaker 2: Yeah, breaking news from there are no girls on the
Speaker 2: internet news. This is voiceover narration bridget and I'm getting
Speaker 2: reports that anyone can get a microphone and start saying
Speaker 2: anything they want about the news and current events on
Speaker 2: TikTok and try to get people to think they're a
Speaker 2: reputable source. For instance, after the tragic murder of four
Speaker 2: students on the campus of University of Idaho, a self
Speaker 2: proclaimed Internet sleuthed and tarot card reader got tons and
Speaker 2: tons of views after reporting scare quotes about the case
Speaker 2: on TikTok and accusing a professor who had nothing to
Speaker 2: do with it of being the culprit. So for someone
Speaker 2: like me who was invested in our internet ecosystems being
Speaker 2: places where accurate information thrives, I gotta be honest, it
Speaker 2: worries me. But V says that's what happens when creators
Speaker 2: are just focused on things like eyeballs and engagement rather
Speaker 2: than focusing on authentically amplifying stories that really matter, Because
Speaker 2: when the latter happens, you get platforms that are flooded
Speaker 2: with helpful, thoughtful stories, especially ones that might otherwise be
Speaker 2: underreported or overlooked. Think about all the different stories in
Speaker 2: the last few years that got more visibility because of
Speaker 2: social media platforms like TikTok, Like the Tennessee three where
Speaker 2: three lawmakers, two black and one a woman, were expelled
Speaker 2: from office over their protests in favor of gun control.
Speaker 2: For Baby Chanel, an Indigenous child in Alaska living with
Speaker 2: non Native foster parents who racially demeaned her online, which
Speaker 2: shed light on the Indian Child Welfare Act. These stories
Speaker 2: should be told. They deserve to be told, and with
Speaker 2: more and more people making good content on platforms like TikTok,
Speaker 2: these says that it increases the chances that those stories
Speaker 2: will beach more people, so will all be better informed.
Speaker 2: Back to you interview Bridget do you think that having
Speaker 2: more and more people making their own news content on
Speaker 2: platforms like TikTok, do you think that that will help
Speaker 2: curb things like misinformation or be a way to help
Speaker 2: it or make it worse? Like? What are your thoughts.
Speaker 1: I think the more people that are making content generally
Speaker 1: the better. I think it's great for people to be
Speaker 1: able to express themselves and you can see people grow.
Speaker 1: Some people who weren't that good in the beginning or
Speaker 1: were like overperforming, have now kind of relaxed and gotten better.
Speaker 3: Other people have fallen off.
Speaker 1: What I think is great about everybody making content is
Speaker 1: once they get over that kind of I do make
Speaker 1: it look kind of easy, right, Like, there are some
Speaker 1: people who can make this look like, oh I could
Speaker 1: do that, and that's great, until you go to do
Speaker 1: it and you're like, oh, wait a minute, Like there's
Speaker 1: like a level of skills that like maybe in a
Speaker 1: walk of life that I didn't share. But then they
Speaker 1: start to narrow on on the stuff that they get
Speaker 1: positive attention for, which is oftentimes the things that they
Speaker 1: are actually good at are genuinely interested in themselves. So
Speaker 1: I think in those ways we've gotten a lot of
Speaker 1: citizen journalists or pure journalists, whatever you want to call them,
Speaker 1: news readers that have helped spread the message. Well, then
Speaker 1: you have the people who really don't understand the difference
Speaker 1: between positive and negative attention and are just going to
Speaker 1: say something to get hate stitches because their metric for
Speaker 1: success is a number, not an engagement and not a
Speaker 1: likability and not a trust thing. And so you see
Speaker 1: those people sort of like firework up and then go away,
Speaker 1: and firework up and go away. The thing that I
Speaker 1: would warn against when it comes to making news content
Speaker 1: overall is to not just put yourself in reaction to
Speaker 1: your opposition. A lot of what we see on left
Speaker 1: wing news talk is people finding the most atrocious take
Speaker 1: from somebody who is deeply far right with a small
Speaker 1: following often and amplifying them into the mainstream because they
Speaker 1: said this horrible thing about bathing suits at Target, and
Speaker 1: they got stitched by all of left wing news talk right.
Speaker 1: That woman probably would not have had the platforms she
Speaker 1: did if we didn't amplify her right being the collective left,
Speaker 1: same thing happens. And what that does when people do that,
Speaker 1: is it not only platforms this horrible person who's never
Speaker 1: going to be a big star on their own because
Speaker 1: the right already has their big stars, but they also
Speaker 1: invite the fox into our henhouse. And now we've been
Speaker 1: my FYP was like slammed most of Pride with very
Speaker 1: hateful things that were very disheartening to me and not celebrations.
Speaker 1: So what I would love to see is us talk
Speaker 1: to our own and celebrate our own and amplify our
Speaker 1: own as opposed to being in reaction to what our
Speaker 1: opposition says. Now, it's important to hold you know, the
Speaker 1: other side accountable where we can, But as far as
Speaker 1: amplifying single creators who say terrible things, their goal is
Speaker 1: just to get amplified, and you're never going to change
Speaker 1: their mind, and they're not acting from a place of reason,
Speaker 1: so there's no reason to give them any room. You
Speaker 1: saw this when Tucker Carlson came off the air. The
Speaker 1: week that he was off the air, Rachel Mattaw was
Speaker 1: a little bit lost. And I really respect her as
Speaker 1: a journalist. I mean, she's incredible, right, undeniably, but she
Speaker 1: was a little bit lost for like two or three
Speaker 1: days because her show had gotten so use to being
Speaker 1: in reaction to Tucker Carlson and all the stupid, horrible
Speaker 1: things he said. The next week of her show show,
Speaker 1: it was like the lights came on. She was talking
Speaker 1: about stuff she was interested in. She was bringing up
Speaker 1: the two new podcasts she had. She had a different
Speaker 1: kind of energy because she was getting to report on
Speaker 1: the things she cared about instead of being in reaction
Speaker 1: to that far right figure that she had to correct
Speaker 1: or try to balance. We're not going to correct or
Speaker 1: balance them. So if you're a news creator and you're
Speaker 1: looking at like what should I do? You might get
Speaker 1: a lot of clicks up front by just sort of
Speaker 1: doing the outrage farm thing, but you will get a
Speaker 1: lot more attention. Your videos will have a higher finish
Speaker 1: rate if you are talking about something that you actually
Speaker 1: care about and sort of blocking out all the noise.
Speaker 1: TikTok rewards positive content, so they reward positivity, where Facebook
Speaker 1: and Instagram and Twitter kind of reward division.
Speaker 2: It's so hard, both as a person who creates content
Speaker 2: and also a person who consumes content, that line and
Speaker 2: that balance is so hard. I found myself in my
Speaker 2: the beginning stages of me on TikTok really watching a
Speaker 2: lot of videos about like exactly like you described, like
Speaker 2: in like I'm angry about this, I'm outraged about this
Speaker 2: and you should too. And boy, those videos really scratch
Speaker 2: an itch that I didn't know I had, and I
Speaker 2: don't love that I have. But at the end of
Speaker 2: the day, like it's kind of just boring to listen
Speaker 2: to somebody be outraged and be angry about something and
Speaker 2: be in reaction to something. Tell me what you love,
Speaker 2: what are you about? What fills your cup? Like that
Speaker 2: Like that is what Like the outrage might get my eyeballs,
Speaker 2: but the positive positivity is what keeps my eyeballs and
Speaker 2: keeps me interested and helps me form a relationship. I
Speaker 2: think a big part of TikTok's infrastructure. Are these people
Speaker 2: who come on strong with the outrage and get a
Speaker 2: lot of engagement, But that's just not sustainable because that's
Speaker 2: not what we're looking for us as humans. I don't
Speaker 2: think that's what makes us feel good.
Speaker 1: It's why they say that social media can be bad
Speaker 1: for your mental health, and a lot of it is
Speaker 1: the doom scrolling or this outrage farming stuff, or feeling
Speaker 1: you have to be in reaction or you have to
Speaker 1: correct the world. You're never going to do that. We're
Speaker 1: never going to do that. So what I have found
Speaker 1: as best is to be like, what am I adding
Speaker 1: to the conversation? What do people need to know? Every Thursday?
Speaker 1: You know, I do good news only, And that's very
Speaker 1: on purpose because I was finding by Thursday my audience
Speaker 1: was exhausted of hearing what had gone on that week,
Speaker 1: because there's always so much kooky stuff going on. So
Speaker 1: I try to stack the deck that I'm reading from
Speaker 1: that day to be like, here's something super important, here's
Speaker 1: something political, here's something funny, here's something super important, here's
Speaker 1: something funny, so that we can kind of like make
Speaker 1: it through in a way that doesn't just suck away
Speaker 1: all of our hope and also guess it's excited to
Speaker 1: see what comes in the next day. And then on Thursdays,
Speaker 1: it's just all good news no matter what, because folks
Speaker 1: are exhausted by that point, and exhaustion is how hateful
Speaker 1: content wins.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: They have endless energy and resources to just bury you
Speaker 1: in doubt and in sadness, and so you could just
Speaker 1: opt out. You just don't participate. I just don't participate.
Speaker 1: I don't cover Marjorie Taylor Green. I don't cover Trump
Speaker 1: because these are things that I can't change anybody's mind done,
Speaker 1: and that are so unusual and that are so overcovered
Speaker 1: by the mainstream media that I'm like, you guys have
Speaker 1: more resources than me. You you do the heavy lifting
Speaker 1: on that. What I want to tell you about while
Speaker 1: you're doing three and a half hours of Trump's plane
Speaker 1: on the tarmac is the Tennessee three. I want to
Speaker 1: tell you about this little thing that's happening. That movement
Speaker 1: was started on TikTok. They wouldn't be here without TikTok,
Speaker 1: an activist TikTok really taking that story as high as
Speaker 1: it could go. While the rest of the media was
Speaker 1: watching Trump's plane on a tarmac. So I think there's
Speaker 1: a lot of space for good on TikTok and the news.
Speaker 1: I think you just got to check yourself a lot
Speaker 1: and say, why am I saying this? What do I
Speaker 1: care about this? What can I do about this?
Speaker 3: And is this my community?
Speaker 1: Don't pick somebody else's community and then decide that you're
Speaker 1: going to speak for them, Like if you're a male creator,
Speaker 1: don't be like, well, my mission is going to be
Speaker 1: to uplift the voices of women, Robbie Harvey, that's gonna
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, that's not gonna work. You know,
Speaker 1: what is your thing that you can hold all the
Speaker 1: water for that, You're going to be a helper for that.
Speaker 1: You're the best person to help explain and evangelize and
Speaker 1: dig deep on right. Make sure it's your community too,
Speaker 1: Not that we shouldn't be uplifting other communities, just make
Speaker 1: sure you're not speaking for that other community when you're
Speaker 1: building your content.
Speaker 2: Because it's so mean, like folks on TikTok, so yes
Speaker 2: to all of that. Folks on TikTok. If there's one
Speaker 2: thing they can sniff out is somebody who is not
Speaker 2: being authentic. They are so they are so good at
Speaker 2: being like, wait a minute, something smells off here. So
Speaker 2: if you are not authentically you know, amplifying them. If
Speaker 2: you're saying like I'm gonna like talk about for this community,
Speaker 2: I'm gonna speak for them, No, people will sniff that
Speaker 2: out so quickly. Don't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, tell their stories.
Speaker 1: Point people in the direct, like this is what I
Speaker 1: do with some of my Indigenous friends who are creators.
Speaker 1: Oftentimes we know that my face people are going to
Speaker 1: stop and they're going to read. So when there's something important,
Speaker 1: I'll be like, hey, I'm gonna tell you the story
Speaker 1: about baby Chanelle. But who you actually need to follow
Speaker 1: for more information on this as X y Z people.
Speaker 1: And you make sure that those those community leaders are centered.
Speaker 1: You say, this is what they said, this is what
Speaker 1: they said they need, this is how you get it.
Speaker 1: And when you need more, you go talk to show
Speaker 1: me your mask. You go talk to WITCHI, Twitchy, you
Speaker 1: go talk to Bossy like. These are the people who
Speaker 1: are leading this. They're going to have your everyday events.
Speaker 1: This is their community. They're the speakers. I'm just here
Speaker 1: to make sure that y'all go look over there, because
Speaker 1: I know I've got you know, a lot of attention,
Speaker 1: so like, let me help direct your attention to somebody
Speaker 1: who has a smaller platform but has something really important
Speaker 1: to say. I think that can be a really great
Speaker 1: way that TikTok allows us to collaborate. The duet and
Speaker 1: stitch feature on TikTok smokes the threads feature on Twitter
Speaker 1: because you have to put your face on it, so
Speaker 1: you have to really believe what you're saying when you
Speaker 1: correct somebody or when you add to the story. And
Speaker 1: I think that that's really powerful too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's It does have some features that I think
Speaker 2: like really help move the conversation forward in some ways
Speaker 2: that are better than other platforms. Like on Twitter, somebody
Speaker 2: can quote tweet you and say any old thing, whether
Speaker 2: it's true or not. You better really, like you're going
Speaker 2: to call somebody out on TikTok, you better really, you know,
Speaker 2: have your ducks in a row.
Speaker 1: And when you say something wrong and I've gotten I mean,
Speaker 1: you're gonna get stuff wrong.
Speaker 3: I really try not to.
Speaker 1: It's rare that I get something wrong or that the
Speaker 1: story changes very quickly and now it's different from what
Speaker 1: we thought. And I'll always do corrections because I don't
Speaker 1: think there's anything to me embarrassed about. When you have
Speaker 1: to do a correction, you should do it as quickly
Speaker 1: and as efficiently and as honestly as you can is
Speaker 1: to make those corrections because it is your face out there.
Speaker 3: So TikTok will get you, they'll hold you accountable. If
Speaker 3: you say something, I'll give you.
Speaker 1: My example was the Chris Rock slap. I was watching
Speaker 1: the Academy Awards or whatever it was award show and
Speaker 1: he slept and I had it like this, I had
Speaker 1: it so fast, and I got a bunch of messages
Speaker 1: from people being like, h do you really stand by
Speaker 1: the way you reacted to that, or do you think
Speaker 1: that perhaps sensationalizing two black men fighting is not the
Speaker 1: best way to spend your night.
Speaker 3: And I was like, you know what, You're so fucking right.
Speaker 3: Like it was to me.
Speaker 1: I just saw them as like actors who were acting crazy.
Speaker 1: And Tabitha Speaks, who was the creator who I first
Speaker 1: saw the DM from, she was like, girl, stay out
Speaker 1: of black people's business.
Speaker 3: And I was like, you know.
Speaker 1: What, you are absolutely right, You're absolutely right right because
Speaker 1: I'm seeing them as actors. But this speaks to such
Speaker 1: a bigger problem that went on as we saw. I
Speaker 1: took that video right down. It was a three million
Speaker 1: views after like two hours. When I took it down
Speaker 1: and people were like, are you gonna talk about Chris Rock,
Speaker 1: I'm like no, So when you're told you know what
Speaker 1: I mean, you got to kind of like, I think
Speaker 1: this is why I appreciate so much about my theater education.
Speaker 1: For years, For forty years, I've stood in front of
Speaker 1: people who have been like, Eh, your freckles are weird.
Speaker 1: You don't get the part. Ah, I don't like the
Speaker 1: way you're standing, you don't get the part right. Like
Speaker 1: I can take a lot of like very constructive and
Speaker 1: even ridiculous criticism and just go okay and move on
Speaker 1: to the next thing. I think you have to be
Speaker 1: able to do that if you want to be a TikToker,
Speaker 1: even if you have the best intentions and you think
Speaker 1: you told the best story, or even if you think
Speaker 1: something's not a big deal and you're just talking about
Speaker 1: it because everybody else is talking about it. If somebody
Speaker 1: from the community you're talking about says to you, yo
Speaker 1: that I don't I don't think that was I think
Speaker 1: you might want to relook at that one or even says, yo,
Speaker 1: that was a big mess up anything, then you have
Speaker 1: to immediately believe them and adjust from there.
Speaker 3: And that's how you can kind of, like, you know.
Speaker 1: Keep people's trust and continue to try to tell better
Speaker 1: stories every day. But yeah, that was a good one.
Speaker 2: That's a great example.
Speaker 1: And there's nothing yeah to you, because I could have
Speaker 1: been like, what do you mean everybody's talking about it? No,
Speaker 1: you know what if you took the time to tell
Speaker 1: me that what I did was going to stand, was
Speaker 1: gonna not line up. Why, I'm so grateful to you,
Speaker 1: thank you for catching me so early. And there's nothing
Speaker 1: worse than somebody who has been kind of gently called
Speaker 1: in but then is like, no, I'm gonna double down,
Speaker 1: Like it's not me, it's wrong at y'all, Like, don't
Speaker 1: ever double down, never double terrible, much better, it's so bad.
Speaker 1: Just it's so much much easier to just put the
Speaker 1: video on friends only while you figure it out or
Speaker 1: whatever you want to do. Now, no issue, no video
Speaker 1: is worth doubling down. It will because you double down,
Speaker 1: three million people will triple down. Oh yeah, Like don't
Speaker 1: do it right, Yeah.
Speaker 4: More after a quick break, let's.
Speaker 3: Get right back into it.
Speaker 2: So v is part of a community building a different
Speaker 2: kind of information ecosystem and they're doing it on TikTok.
Speaker 2: But all of this is threatened by a potential ban
Speaker 2: on TikTok. Back in March, when shows E Chou, the
Speaker 2: CEO of TikTok, came before a Congressional hearing on the
Speaker 2: Restrict Act, thee was there in their iconic black rimmed
Speaker 2: glasses and suit and tie, sitting right behind him.
Speaker 1: Anytime Congress is doing something that leaffully bipartisan, I'm always
Speaker 1: like a little bit suspicious, you know, because it's not
Speaker 1: often and it's never really good it. I was like,
Speaker 1: they are gleefully bipartisan right now. So I felt really
Speaker 1: nervous about that. And I think that they thought that
Speaker 1: they could blame China, they could look tough on China,
Speaker 1: that people would accept it. Understand the community that is
Speaker 1: on this platform, that is so strong and again trauma
Speaker 1: bonded because of the pandemic.
Speaker 3: This platform is offered.
Speaker 1: I think it's like five million small businesses the opportunity
Speaker 1: to operate. So many people have achieved their dreams on
Speaker 1: this platform. It wasn't gonna fly, It was not gonna
Speaker 1: go well. And so when I was looking at how
Speaker 1: they were going to do it, a flat out TikTok
Speaker 1: ban would be bad for politics. So I was looking
Speaker 1: at the people who were like ban TikTok well, US
Speaker 1: obviously against the First Amendment, I can't do that and
Speaker 1: the Fourteenth, So I was like, those won't pass. But
Speaker 1: this restrict Act, I was like, oh, okay, eighty nine
Speaker 1: pages of legislation. They really thought about this one. So
Speaker 1: I printed it out, spend a couple of days like
Speaker 1: reading it. And I remember the Patriot Act. People think
Speaker 1: I'm a lot younger than I am. I'm forty years old.
Speaker 1: And so I was in college when nine to eleven happened,
Speaker 1: and I remember the Patriot Act and my dad, you know,
Speaker 1: being very involved in like why this was all happening.
Speaker 1: And that did not go well for US, allowing the
Speaker 1: government basically unchecked ability to monitor telecom.
Speaker 3: Because of terrorists, right, because of threats.
Speaker 1: And so when I heard this coming, and I knew
Speaker 1: that because I keep up on politics obviously because of
Speaker 1: the Channel, I knew that the Patriot Act had kind
Speaker 1: of expired, and I knew they were going to be
Speaker 1: looking for another way to gain access to our information.
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at it and it wasn't just TikTok,
Speaker 1: and it didn't even line item TikTok. It said foreign
Speaker 1: owned technology from these different places. It would include game chat,
Speaker 1: it would include your TikTok communications. It could include ENCRYPTID
Speaker 1: communications from apps like you know, WhatsApp or Telegram or
Speaker 1: any of these other ones. And I was like, this
Speaker 1: is the Patriot AC two point zero, And so that
Speaker 1: was what I went to my Senator Kirsten Gillibrand with.
Speaker 1: I was like, this reads like the Patriot AC two
Speaker 1: point zero. And she was like if you her office
Speaker 1: was like, if you knew what I knew about security
Speaker 1: and you really loved your community, you wouldn't be fighting
Speaker 1: so hard for TikTok. And I was like, then tell me,
Speaker 1: because I'm the best communicator on TikTok, and if the
Speaker 1: American public and especially my community, is in danger, then
Speaker 1: you should tell me, because I will tell them because
Speaker 1: I'm an American first and I'm a TikToker, like nineteenth
Speaker 1: on my list of things that I am, and so
Speaker 1: if I'm a part of like a national security threat,
Speaker 1: I need to know that. I would love to know
Speaker 1: that I would never do that, and they didn't have anything,
Speaker 1: and I was like, because you don't have anything. And
Speaker 1: then I went to AOC's office and she was like,
Speaker 1: we've never been briefed. We've never had a national briefing
Speaker 1: on a threat from TikTok And I was like, why
Speaker 1: are they doing this? And she was like, Mark Warner,
Speaker 1: you know, he's a tech guy.
Speaker 3: Maybe he was.
Speaker 1: This is like something that a lot of people want,
Speaker 1: but it's not something that I think is well written.
Speaker 1: She came out and made a TikTok about how she
Speaker 1: thought it wasn't well written. And I just couldn't in
Speaker 1: the amount of time that I spent in Congress with
Speaker 1: people I had made tiktoks with, could not get like
Speaker 1: a straight answer as to why this was happening and
Speaker 1: why the restrict Act was so necessary. Mark Warner himself
Speaker 1: couldn't explain his own legislation well. And so the TikTok
Speaker 1: hearing came, I knew that I wanted to sit behind
Speaker 1: show too, because I wanted there was like nine of
Speaker 1: those people on that committee that have made tiktoks with me.
Speaker 1: I wanted them to have to look at him and
Speaker 1: look at me. As a comically recognizable part of TikTok.
Speaker 1: You are not just talking to him, You are talking
Speaker 1: to a whole community of people. A lot of marginalized
Speaker 1: people have built their platform on TikTok that couldn't get
Speaker 1: that traction anywhere else. You need to see the big
Speaker 1: picture here and either be more honest with the American
Speaker 1: people about what a threat it is and why and
Speaker 1: how you're going to fix it, provide actual data privacy
Speaker 1: legislation that we're all asking.
Speaker 3: For, or knock it off.
Speaker 1: And as you could see after the hearing and after
Speaker 1: the entire Internet started calling their restrict Act Patriot C
Speaker 1: two point zero, they have since dropped that for now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of really came on quick, and then
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, never mind, just kiduse.
Speaker 3: Nobody wanted to touch it after the hearing.
Speaker 2: That image of you with the hearing so front and center.
Speaker 2: I mean, that is like, I think that'll be in
Speaker 2: history books when people are studying media and tech in
Speaker 2: twenty years or whatever. Like that was a real moment.
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, you talk about marginalized communities,
Speaker 2: so many communities who have been traditionally left out of
Speaker 2: conversations have been able to build up platforms and voices
Speaker 2: on social media platforms like TikTok, And so if we
Speaker 2: just say na ah, y'all don't get to do that,
Speaker 2: I really worry for the ways that those communities will
Speaker 2: be able to have voices. There have been so many
Speaker 2: stories that I would have never heard about if not
Speaker 2: for TikTok that were happening in completely different you know,
Speaker 2: sub sections of the Internet or different communities that I'm
Speaker 2: just not in. And so I really genuinely worried for
Speaker 2: how we would be able to get news and make
Speaker 2: news stories happen and make people care about what's going
Speaker 2: on if not for platforms like TikTok. I thought it
Speaker 2: was a real blow to those communities.
Speaker 1: And when we think about communities, we're thinking about and
Speaker 1: we say marginalized, we think about black and brown people,
Speaker 1: gay people, no, all kinds of smaller communities. We wouldn't
Speaker 1: have had the frontline access to the war in Ukraine
Speaker 1: if we didn't have TikTok. We wouldn't have had frontline
Speaker 1: access to the women a Life freedom movement in Iran.
Speaker 1: If it wasn't for TikTok and all of the Iranians
Speaker 1: here that we're speaking for the folks back home who
Speaker 1: have been so censored.
Speaker 3: We wouldn't have a.
Speaker 1: Million different stories. The Tennessee three, the George Floyd stuff
Speaker 1: came from a citizen journalist with cell phone video. It
Speaker 1: wasn't on TikTok, but TikTok was sort of starting shortly
Speaker 1: after that and has continued this movement towards you.
Speaker 3: It's not just.
Speaker 1: Marginalized communities the way we traditionally think of them. It's
Speaker 1: communities that don't get leading press. And I think if
Speaker 1: we've done one thing on TikTok over the last three years,
Speaker 1: it's really get people educated on media literacy, on civic literacy,
Speaker 1: on political activism and how to get involved and hold
Speaker 1: people accountable, and see that TikTok is the place that
Speaker 1: people can be held accountable. And I think it holds
Speaker 1: a higher trust factor for a lot of folks because
Speaker 1: it's not owned by Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg. So
Speaker 1: their whole thing that this like very charming, adorable Singaporean
Speaker 1: man is the CEO who's young, right and really knew
Speaker 1: what he was talking about with some sort of villain.
Speaker 1: They were like, have you who which this was my
Speaker 1: question to them about restrict dec So you say restrict
Speaker 1: act or they have to sell it? Sell it to?
Speaker 1: Who sell it to?
Speaker 3: Who?
Speaker 1: Finish the sentence? Sell it to who? Which one of
Speaker 1: the white boy billionaires gets to buy it?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 1: Is it Elon Musk? Is it Zuckerberg? Who's got the
Speaker 1: money to even by it?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Is it Bill Gates? Like? Who sell it to? Who?
Speaker 1: So that the American publican have a big picture, and
Speaker 1: you should also be thinking through what does that mean
Speaker 1: the two communities that I had like in my back pocket.
Speaker 1: As if this continues to go forward, we need to
Speaker 1: like activate other marginalized communities. Religion, which we don't think
Speaker 1: of them as marginalized because they're still very loud, but
Speaker 1: there are so many religious affiliations that are not Christian
Speaker 1: that are very thrive on TikTok. Christians thrive on TikTok
Speaker 1: as well. And the military communities. A lot of the
Speaker 1: military communities were saying that through TikTok they can see
Speaker 1: their member who is deployed or who is otherwise engaged,
Speaker 1: way more than they were allowed to before when they
Speaker 1: only got certain number of phone calls through social media.
Speaker 1: In general, they are staying families are staying connected, and
Speaker 1: through social media, religions are building online ministries that would
Speaker 1: not otherwise exist. You're a gay kid in northeast or
Speaker 1: northwest Arkansas and you find a universalist church on TikTok
Speaker 1: like that's like the one led by Pastor Sarah. You're
Speaker 1: going to find a place of inclusion in a path
Speaker 1: to Jesus that you don't have in your little town.
Speaker 3: And so we.
Speaker 1: Can't give that up either. And these are the things
Speaker 1: that I wish. I don't even think Congress was dumb
Speaker 1: when they did this. They were like, well, do you
Speaker 1: think the Biden administration is stupid? When they back to this,
Speaker 1: I'm like.
Speaker 3: I don't.
Speaker 1: I think that they were ill advised and uneducated on
Speaker 1: the communities. And that's the importance of diversifying your staff,
Speaker 1: because if you had called me even one time, I
Speaker 1: would have been able to be like, yo, you're gonna
Speaker 1: get hit with all of this stuff from the communities
Speaker 1: who are going to be like, you can't shut me down.
Speaker 1: This is providing you know, life saving resources to some folks.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's not like I mean, like you've worked
Speaker 2: with the White House before. It's not like they don't
Speaker 2: have your number, they know how to reach you.
Speaker 1: I was like, y'all called me to make tiktoks during
Speaker 1: the election season.
Speaker 2: Like one of my last questions the question I asked
Speaker 2: all of my fuel I interview, like when you think
Speaker 2: of the future of news media, Like, what do you
Speaker 2: think is the future of news media as it pertains
Speaker 2: to platforms like TikTok? And are you hopeful?
Speaker 3: I'm very hopeful.
Speaker 1: And I actually think my grandma used to say scripts
Speaker 1: can only get so short before the maxi dress is
Speaker 1: back in fashion. And I think that's what we're seeing now.
Speaker 1: You know, some people might say the pendulum swings or something.
Speaker 3: I think what we.
Speaker 1: Saw is like over the last decade or so, news
Speaker 1: has become the twenty four hour news cycle, the divisiveness,
Speaker 1: the outrage farming, the personalities on cable news television, the
Speaker 1: conglomerations of newspapers getting all bought up by by these
Speaker 1: big companies and billionaires. And I think what we're seeing
Speaker 1: is a return to citizen journalism, to neighbors sharing stories,
Speaker 1: to local journalism. And I think what we have in
Speaker 1: store for a fight is not necessarily fighting these big
Speaker 1: narratives so much as finding the resources to bring back
Speaker 1: local journalism, small newsletters. We're seeing a lot of success
Speaker 1: with you lists having sub stacks in different places where
Speaker 1: you can follow somebody independent of the big newspapers and
Speaker 1: big media companies, because we value that and we trust
Speaker 1: those people. So I think what we're going to see
Speaker 1: in the next ten years is a lot more of
Speaker 1: a breakup of the power that these big organizations have.
Speaker 1: And unfortunately we are already seeing it in the layoffs
Speaker 1: at BuzzFeed or MTV shuttering MTV News or NPR even
Speaker 1: or Vice. And I think that's horrible, and I think
Speaker 1: that those are mortal wounds that really hurt us and
Speaker 1: hurt storytelling and hurt the dream of journalism. But what
Speaker 1: we're picking up is this independent journalist having a lot
Speaker 1: more power, and with that power of independence gives you
Speaker 1: a lot more ability to tell a better truth. And
Speaker 1: so I think that that's really interesting and I think
Speaker 1: that's where we're going. But I think finding the resources
Speaker 1: to support that many people is going to be the
Speaker 1: fight that we're actually in for.
Speaker 2: Are you ready and geared up for that fight?
Speaker 3: I am? I am ready in gear up.
Speaker 1: I also think that it's important for people to change
Speaker 1: their version of success.
Speaker 3: I used to talk about this with the chefs.
Speaker 1: I do not have a dream of being like the
Speaker 1: nightly news anchor on NBCA. I don't have a dream
Speaker 1: of being Lester Whole. I have a dream of being me,
Speaker 1: and being me requires a lot less resources, right than
Speaker 1: being a big, huge media news star. Think about that
Speaker 1: for yourself too. What do you need to be successful
Speaker 1: to have your niche really heard? How would you support that?
Speaker 1: What does that look like? Because that might look like
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars as opposed to millions of dollars
Speaker 1: that might look like having ten thousand really dedicated followers.
Speaker 1: Were so down for the stuff you talk about as
Speaker 1: opposed to ten million nightly viewers for a big cable channel.
Speaker 1: And I think we're going to see that rise of
Speaker 1: the of the micro influencer, of the local newscaster. And
Speaker 1: I hope that people can find success and peace and
Speaker 1: space in just getting that successful and not having to maximalize, right.
Speaker 3: Not like oh million followers.
Speaker 1: So the next thing for me is to try and
Speaker 1: sell my show it to a CBS like no, no, No,
Speaker 1: keep your show and keep yourself, you know, right here
Speaker 1: where you can be successful and give yourself space to
Speaker 1: Breathe also.
Speaker 2: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or
Speaker 2: just want to say hi? You can read us at
Speaker 2: Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts
Speaker 2: for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No
Speaker 2: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd.
Speaker 2: It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed creative Jonathan Strickland
Speaker 2: as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and
Speaker 2: sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer. I'm your host,
Speaker 2: Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate
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