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Speaker 1: It's not just one white man writing a story from

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Speaker 1: a white man's perspective, handing it to another white news

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Speaker 1: anchor to deliver on an entirely white friend major network.

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Speaker 2: There are no Girls on the Internet. As a production

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Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridge Todd, and this

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Speaker 2: is there are no girls on the Internet. I grew

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Speaker 2: up in a newspaper family, and in fact, our family

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Speaker 2: always got two copies of our local newspaper, one for

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Speaker 2: the family and another one just for my dad that

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Speaker 2: none of us were supposed to rifle through. I guess

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Speaker 2: because the man really enjoyed having a crisp, fresh newspaper

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Speaker 2: all to himself. But that was a long time ago. Today,

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Speaker 2: lesson less people are getting their news from traditional sources

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Speaker 2: like a newspaper or a mainstream media outlet. Instead, they're

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Speaker 2: getting their news from podcasts hey like the one you're

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Speaker 2: listening to right now, and from content creators on social media.

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Speaker 2: And if you've gotten your news on TikTok, odds are

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Speaker 2: you've seen Vita spear from under the desk news. That

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Speaker 2: title under the desk is literal by the way, v

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Speaker 2: actually gets down under their desk to tell their three

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Speaker 2: million followers on TikTok what they need to know. And

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Speaker 2: it started during the height of the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: We were seeing a lot of journalists working from home,

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Speaker 1: and so I didn't want to blur this line of

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Speaker 1: like being some super serious journalist who was just working

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Speaker 1: from home because of you know, the pandemic, And so

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Speaker 1: I got under my desk to create this kind of

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Speaker 1: safe place where we could have like a secret and

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Speaker 1: talk about the news in a way that wasn't going

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Speaker 1: to be scary to people, that wasn't sensationalized. And that

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Speaker 1: just kind of was what I would do, you know,

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Speaker 1: if I was still in the office, Like if I

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Speaker 1: had a water cooler in my home, I probably would

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Speaker 1: have been water cooler talk, but I didn't, So I

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Speaker 1: just had the under the desk space that was like

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Speaker 1: the ethos and the idea of like why under a desk?

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Speaker 2: Going back to that time where we all were sort

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Speaker 2: of emotionally, that's when doom scrolling became a thing and

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Speaker 2: the news, Yeah, it was like you couldn't if you

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Speaker 2: opened up a news app, you were like opening up

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Speaker 2: this whole rush of emotions. Many of them were like bad, scary,

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Speaker 2: big and so your voice was really one that was calming.

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Speaker 2: It was soothing. It was like, here's the stuff you

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Speaker 2: need to know, but you don't need to freak out.

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Speaker 2: Here's some information. Is that the vibe you were intentionally

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Speaker 2: trying to cultivate.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the originality of it, because I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you think about we went into our homes in March.

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Speaker 1: I started the TikTok in like March or April. And

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Speaker 1: I actually used to do cooking content when I first started,

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Speaker 1: because I was working for the James Beard Foundation, which

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Speaker 1: is like a big chef organization, and I was trying

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Speaker 1: to tell the chefs about how to apply for PPV

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Speaker 1: loans and like eidl and shuttered venue. And at that time,

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Speaker 1: like on TikTok, you had to have like a kitchy thing.

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Speaker 1: So I would like throw butter from across my room

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Speaker 1: into the pan, and I would like make the hamburgers

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Speaker 1: slap in the air, and like, I was so ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: And I would be teaching people about these government programs

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Speaker 1: and that kind of led into explaining the Cares Act,

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Speaker 1: and then that led into the election, and then that

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Speaker 1: led into January sixth, Joe Biden's first hundred days the

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Speaker 1: pull out of Afghanistan. I mean, there was just like

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Speaker 1: always something else that was really scary that watching the

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Speaker 1: news was stressing me out because I'd have to watch

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Speaker 1: for like hours before I just found out what happened,

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Speaker 1: you know, just give it to me, tell me quickly

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Speaker 1: what happened. And so I felt like I could create

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Speaker 1: this space to kind of catch people up quickly and

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Speaker 1: help bring them back to the news in a way

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Speaker 1: that wasn't requiring such a commitment from them, both emotionally

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Speaker 1: and time wise. You've kind of become a go to

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Speaker 1: news source for TikTok. Like when I think about people

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Speaker 1: who make news on TikTok, I think of you specifically.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that TikTok is a platform that

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Speaker 1: is conducive to people getting their news in like a

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Speaker 1: specific kind of way. It's not a newsreader, you know,

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Speaker 1: so detached from the feeling of the emotion.

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Speaker 2: There's a real relationship that's being built. Why do you

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Speaker 2: think that folks on TikTok are looking for that or

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Speaker 2: that's taken off on the platform.

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Speaker 1: So a lot of the way that I do the

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Speaker 1: news is based on the way that I grew up.

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Speaker 1: And my mom is who I call the original citizen

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Speaker 1: journalist because she used to be home and I remember

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Speaker 1: the year that she bought a police scanner and she

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Speaker 1: would just sit with her girlfriends and like drink coffee

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Speaker 1: and smoke Virginia Slims and like listen to the police

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Speaker 1: scanner it and then my dad had come home and

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Speaker 1: she'd be like, Oh my god, Paul, you're not going

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Speaker 1: to believe it. You're not going to believe it. And

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Speaker 1: she would like go around and like look for the

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Speaker 1: police or like they just you know, in our little town.

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Speaker 1: It was like a goofy kind of thing to do,

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Speaker 1: and like how much crime was really happening.

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Speaker 3: There wasn't really that much, but.

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Speaker 1: She would like report back to him all the things

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Speaker 1: that happened. And I think that people love that, They've

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Speaker 1: loved that forever. People love getting their news from their peers,

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Speaker 1: catching up with the girls, like just talking about what's.

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Speaker 3: Going on in the world.

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Speaker 1: And so I think on TikTok we get that kind

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Speaker 1: of feeling, and especially at a time most of us

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Speaker 1: started during the pandemic, we kind of trauma bonded, right.

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Speaker 1: This is where we were connecting with people where we

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Speaker 1: were building friendships and learning things, and so I think

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Speaker 1: it's a thing that's always been a thing where you'd

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Speaker 1: rather hear it from a friend, then you'd rather hear

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Speaker 1: it from like some stodgy person on the evening news

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Speaker 1: telling you, like, you know, it's ten pm, do you

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Speaker 1: know where your children are? And like scaring all the time?

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Speaker 4: You know?

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, moms knows. The moms who want to know

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Speaker 2: what's going on in their neighborhood were the original newsbreakers,

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Speaker 2: the original social media networks.

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Speaker 3: Ask a mom, yep, yep.

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Speaker 2: America. America has a problem trust. It turns out that

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Speaker 2: Americans confidence in newspapers and television news has plummeted to

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Speaker 2: an all time low. This is according to a Gallup

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Speaker 2: survey on trust in the United States as Institutions conducted

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Speaker 2: last year. Now does trust in media might conjure up

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Speaker 2: ideas of right wingers who hate c and ed and

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Speaker 2: all yours, But it's more than that, because many of

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Speaker 2: us have watched mainstream media outlets fail to thoughtfully cover

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Speaker 2: our issues, and for marginalized communities like women, trans folks,

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Speaker 2: black folks, queer folks, disabled folks, this really matters. It

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Speaker 2: can be life or death. But maybe social media can

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Speaker 2: present a solution because listen to this. Pew found that

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Speaker 2: US adults under thirty now trust information from social media

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Speaker 2: almost as much from national news outlets. So if you're

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Speaker 2: somebody like the this is a real opportunity to tell

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Speaker 2: authentic stories. I don't think I have to tell you

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Speaker 2: that distrust in traditional news networks is like really high,

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Speaker 2: particularly with marginalized folks, young people, gen Z. Why do

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Speaker 2: you think that is.

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Speaker 4: So?

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Speaker 1: What I find interesting about that is a lot of

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Speaker 1: the news that I'm bringing people is coming from these

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Speaker 1: legacy media organizations. I mean, now is the face of

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Speaker 1: the La Times TikTok for six months and it greatly

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Speaker 1: improved their sort of relationship with the audience. Sometimes I'm

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Speaker 1: pulling things up from the Washington Post or the New

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Speaker 1: York Times, like these big legacy organizations. I think the

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Speaker 1: difference here is I do believe that people trust reporters.

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Speaker 1: I think if they could meet Aaron Logan from the

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Speaker 1: La Times, they would feel differently about her reporting than

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Speaker 1: when they just read it in the newspaper, and they

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Speaker 1: sort of ascribe, like whatever bias they have to that

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Speaker 1: newspaper onto her reporting as an example, I think we

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Speaker 1: have seen this rise in advertising. We know that there

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Speaker 1: are certain channels that are bought. We know that the

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Speaker 1: goal isn't necessarily to inform the way that the news

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Speaker 1: used to be, but since we've been on this twenty

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Speaker 1: four hour cycle, the goal is to occupy your time

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Speaker 1: and keep eyeballs on you so that they can advertise.

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Speaker 1: And that's a problem across all platforms, right, like this

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Speaker 1: idea that your ability to communicate is directly related to

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Speaker 1: your ability to fundraise or to get advertisers, or to

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Speaker 1: raise money and stuff. And so I think that's where

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Speaker 1: the distrust comes from, is people feeling like these big

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Speaker 1: legacy organizations are out of time much. They're using words

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Speaker 1: that are too academic for the average person. They're talking

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Speaker 1: about things that are too high level for what we

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Speaker 1: need to know and deal with today. They feel like

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Speaker 1: they're protecting the other side. I was having a conversation

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Speaker 1: recently with Sam Woollie, who's a professor at the University

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Speaker 1: of Austin. He talks about propaganda, and he was talking

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Speaker 1: about how a lot of distrust in the media has

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Speaker 1: come from the idea that journalism is supposed to be

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Speaker 1: both sides totally objective, and you can't be when social

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Speaker 1: issues lead the current news cycle. When we're talking about

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Speaker 1: scientific research, sure we could say, should we be gena

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Speaker 1: editing humans?

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Speaker 3: I don't know, but we are.

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Speaker 1: That's a good both sides, right, But when we're talking

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Speaker 1: about the realistic existence of trans people, well we can't

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Speaker 1: both sides that. And I think when people try to

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Speaker 1: both sides that they think that these newspapers don't have

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Speaker 1: a strong point of view, they're not standing on the

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Speaker 1: right side of history, whatever the case may be, or

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Speaker 1: they're leading.

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Speaker 3: Too far to the left and they've gone woke.

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Speaker 1: And so I think a lot of it is because

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Speaker 1: social issues are leading the news right now that there's

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Speaker 1: a lot of distrust. But I do believe that individual

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Speaker 1: reporters still hold a ton of credibility with the public.

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Speaker 2: I was at a panel recently, like a journalism panel,

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Speaker 2: and someone mentioned this reporter Phil Lewis, who was like

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Speaker 2: big on Twitter, always like the big news, He's always

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Speaker 2: tweeting about it. And they were like, Okay, so this

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Speaker 2: is someone that you are familiar with, You follow this person,

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Speaker 2: you trust this person. Do you know what news out

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Speaker 2: what they write for? And I was like, no, and

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Speaker 2: he was like, the AP would never have been a

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Speaker 2: million years of guessed that. And it's like, clearly, it's

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Speaker 2: not that Phil works for the AP or is representing

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Speaker 2: the AP. I have in my mind turned Phil into

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Speaker 2: like black Twitter's town crier or whatever. And it's like

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Speaker 2: it has nothing to do with the outlet that Phil

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Speaker 2: is at his everything to do with the relationship that

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Speaker 2: I feel like I have when I see Phil in

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Speaker 2: my feet. So I think that you're exactly right. I

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Speaker 2: also think there's really something to this idea about how

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Speaker 2: we've gotten to this place where journalists, or maybe it's

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Speaker 2: not even journalists, maybe it's media outlets feel like it's

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Speaker 2: their job to give both sides of issues that really

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Speaker 2: don't have two sides to it, right. Like that's been

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Speaker 2: a real frustration of mine where I'll be like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this transperson wants to have rights, people on the other

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Speaker 2: side say they should all be killed. The truth is

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Speaker 2: probably somewhere in the middle, and it's like, no, it's

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Speaker 2: really not. It's really and you're doing folks a disservice

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Speaker 2: when you train them. But like this is what good

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Speaker 2: journalism is. Good journalism does not try to find the

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Speaker 2: middle ground of of like a position that doesn't necessarily

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Speaker 2: even have two sides, Like, how do we get out

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Speaker 2: of that trap that trains people that this is what

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Speaker 2: good journalism is.

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Speaker 1: So I think that we're going to have a longer

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Speaker 1: road because we were also in a day and age

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Speaker 1: where I can make anything true. I can make anything true.

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Speaker 1: You can find something that looks very official journalism, very

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Speaker 1: official newspaper, news whose outlet, something that's called like the

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Speaker 1: Daily Caller, or like the Telegram, or you know, I

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Speaker 1: mean that sounds like a legit newspaper. It's all lined up,

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Speaker 1: it's got the columns right, the pictures are right, looks good.

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Speaker 3: You can make anything true.

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Speaker 1: And so as long as we live in a world

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Speaker 1: where we can make anything true and the truth is

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Speaker 1: so flexible in fact that it is more based on

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Speaker 1: the opinion and what will be received as opposed to

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Speaker 1: like what is objectively true, we're going to continue to

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Speaker 1: have a lot of problems with people feeling like they

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Speaker 1: can't trust journalism, or like there's both sides of it,

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Speaker 1: or everything is true, because there's no solid consensus on

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Speaker 1: anything at all. And that's sort of the nonsense that

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Speaker 1: I try to deal with on under the desk is.

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Speaker 3: People will be like, why don't you talk about this?

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Speaker 1: And I'm like, there's no way I can talk about

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Speaker 1: that without just descending into absolute madness because it's too

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Speaker 1: much of a third real topic. And people have built

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Speaker 1: their religion into the way they receive news now, or

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Speaker 1: they're perceived religion into the way they receive news now,

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Speaker 1: and so it's just people forcing something to be true,

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Speaker 1: whether it is or not. And I think we have

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Speaker 1: to fight that before we can expect journalists to keep

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Speaker 1: up with that.

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Speaker 2: Do you think in some ways we're like beyond truth?

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Speaker 2: Sometimes I worry that we're just in this new era

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Speaker 2: where it doesn't really matter ultimately. It doesn't really matter

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Speaker 2: if something is actually true or not, even things that

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Speaker 2: can and cannot and like can and cannot be objectively true,

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Speaker 2: because that's not what we're really arguing about. We're arguing

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Speaker 2: about people's identities and their ideologies and their values and

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Speaker 2: what they feel and all of these perceptions, and it

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Speaker 2: kind of doesn't matter ultimately if the thing is true.

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Speaker 2: Do you ever feel that way?

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Speaker 1: I do so, and I think that we can fix it,

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Speaker 1: but I think we have to be able to name

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Speaker 1: it so like, for me, the Buffalo Bills are the

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Speaker 1: greatest football team that have ever played the game. You

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Speaker 1: can't tell me nothing about the Buffalo Bills, right, they're

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Speaker 1: the best. When they lose, it wasn't their fat. Else

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Speaker 1: when they win, it's because God himself was on the

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Speaker 1: field that day with Josh Allen, Right, Like, I love

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Speaker 1: the Bills unreasonably with no end in sight. Okay, And

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Speaker 1: that is normal for a sports fan. That is not

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Speaker 1: normal for us to ascribe to politicians. There is not

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Speaker 1: one politician that should walk the way, the way that

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Speaker 1: should be treated the way that we treat our sports teams.

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Speaker 1: And we've also taken the truth and made it a

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Speaker 1: matter of who is winning the truth. Right, So you

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Speaker 1: take a politician or you take a public figure, and

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Speaker 1: we have a truth about them. They were found liable

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Speaker 1: of sexual assault, right, So that's a truth, that's a

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Speaker 1: fact that happened. But that's your team, that's your guy.

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Speaker 1: So you're going to make every excuse about like why

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Speaker 1: that might be a little less true or why that

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter in the long run. And that's a problem too.

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Speaker 1: And this has all been done on purpose, right since

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Speaker 1: the nineteen seventies, and and for the lot for centuries

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Speaker 1: upon centuries, this has been done right.

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Speaker 3: This is just human nature. But what they've done.

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Speaker 1: So well right now is this division of media outlets

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Speaker 1: where you have like your left wing outlets and your

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Speaker 1: right wing outlets, and they're fighting like sports teams. And

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Speaker 1: so because you have triggered this like protective fan instinct

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Speaker 1: in people, they're going to defend their team, their guy,

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Speaker 1: their gods, the way that they do with religion in sports,

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Speaker 1: as opposed to keeping an objective lens on accountability when

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Speaker 1: it comes to public figures and politicians. And so I

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Speaker 1: think if we know that that's what's happening to people

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Speaker 1: when they're receiving stories, we can adjust the way we're

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Speaker 1: telling the story to make it make sense to that

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Speaker 1: person and kind of break that haze that a lot

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Speaker 1: of folks have on public figures.

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Speaker 2: Let's take a.

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Speaker 4: Quick break at our back.

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Speaker 2: I never thought i'd see the day where people were

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Speaker 2: like I hate CNN or like this news outlet, like

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Speaker 2: it just yah, they're not sports teams. And it's so

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Speaker 2: curious that we're in this day and age where where

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Speaker 2: you get your news it's like something to be defended

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Speaker 2: about you it's like, no, not even about the news

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Speaker 2: that they create, Like it's such a weird position that

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Speaker 2: we find ourselves in this day and age.

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Speaker 1: It's obsessive, it's intentionally addictive. They've used all of the

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Speaker 1: things that used to make us addicted to making sure

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Speaker 1: we watch TGIF every single Friday night or we never

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Speaker 1: missed an episode of The Bachelor, and they've built that

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Speaker 1: into the ways that they news program now, so you're

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Speaker 1: just as addicted to those programs and to that information

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Speaker 1: as you would be your favorite television show or scary movies.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, you want to see that next

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Speaker 1: one that's coming out right away, right away. And so

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Speaker 1: I think those are the things that we have to

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Speaker 1: kind of overcome when it comes to media, and then

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Speaker 1: we also have to overcome this feeling of better than

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Speaker 1: that a lot of journalists have. I've been asking myself

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Speaker 1: a lot what is a journalism? Like what is a journalism?

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Speaker 1: Because there are some people who look at what I

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Speaker 1: do and they're like, now you're a hack who reads headlines,

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, okay, And then there are other people

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Speaker 1: who are like this is incredible new media. And then

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Speaker 1: there are other people who are like well, the original

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Speaker 1: reporting you do on the podcast kind of cancels out

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Speaker 1: the fact that your TikTok is corny, and there are

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Speaker 1: other people who are like, well, your TikTok reaches more

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Speaker 1: people and has a higher finish rate than any other

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Speaker 1: news outlet on TikTok, And I'm like, okay, so what

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Speaker 1: is it like? But everyone's still trying to decide have

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Speaker 1: I earned the right to be a part of journalism

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Speaker 1: right because that industry has been so gate kept and

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Speaker 1: so academicized, which is not a word, but it is

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Speaker 1: now where it's like people, you know, I don't claim

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Speaker 1: to rival Taylor Therenz when it comes to investigative reporting

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Speaker 1: on the Internet, but both of us are really important

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Speaker 1: to it getting to the public. Taylor can write something

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Speaker 1: that's out and we're friends, which I'm bringing her up

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Speaker 1: as an example. Taylor can write something that took her

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Speaker 1: months that the Washington Post has paid her to write,

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Speaker 1: to investigate, to take that time to use those resources

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Speaker 1: to get this incredible story together. If she can't connect

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Speaker 1: with the audience because she was building that huge story

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Speaker 1: and she was busy, then who's going to deliver it

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Speaker 1: to them? To sort of direct people in the direction

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Speaker 1: of that piece. So it takes a lot of different

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Speaker 1: folks to make journalism work nowadays. And I think that's

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Speaker 1: a good thing if we could all embrace it and

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Speaker 1: understand our place within it. Because it's not just one

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Speaker 1: white man writing a story from a white man's perspective

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Speaker 1: handing it to another white news anchor to deliver on

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Speaker 1: an entirely white friend major network.

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Speaker 3: And that's good.

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Speaker 1: Like, these are good problems to have, but I think

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Speaker 1: we need to start thinking about what is a journalism,

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Speaker 1: who is a journalist, and why we are so gatekeepy

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Speaker 1: about that industry. Like I fighting go to Columbia School

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Speaker 1: of Journalism or the best question I get all the time,

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Speaker 1: did you go to Jay's School?

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Speaker 3: First of all, I was like, yeah, I don't know, Like,

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Speaker 3: so what is it? I'm like, what is Jay School?

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Speaker 2: Like? I went to theater.

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Speaker 1: School and then I went to business school. I was

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Speaker 1: like Jay's school. I'm like Jesuit school. I couldn't I

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Speaker 1: couldn't picture what it was.

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Speaker 2: That's amazing. You know, did you want to be in

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Speaker 2: journalism when you were younger? Did you see yourself being

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Speaker 2: in the role that you are today?

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Speaker 1: I have always been really good at explaining things, and

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Speaker 1: I've always been a negotiator. And before I was doing

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Speaker 1: what I do now, I worked in food policy a lot.

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Speaker 1: I've always been fascinated about history and politics and just

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Speaker 1: more the society dynamics of the world. I would say,

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Speaker 1: is like more what I'm interested in, and that's kind

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Speaker 1: of what I speak to. So now I'm doing the news,

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Speaker 1: but the news is always coming from like a society lens.

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Speaker 1: How does this affect people not necessarily, how does this

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Speaker 1: affect processes? Or how does this affect politics? And so

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Speaker 1: I have always been like this. I did not imagine

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Speaker 1: that I would be like a news anchor. But what's

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Speaker 1: kind of funny is my pledge sister from my sorority

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Speaker 1: is also a news anchor in Seattle, and she's like, yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: this makes sense for us.

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Speaker 3: I don't know why.

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Speaker 1: We were just best friends and both ended up like

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Speaker 1: kind of as news anchors. I mean, she's like the

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Speaker 1: nightly news anchor in Seattle. But I think I have

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Speaker 1: a performance background. I have a theater background. I'm very

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Speaker 1: good at understanding big concepts very quickly. I'm used to

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Speaker 1: explaining things that are very complicated, like I used to

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Speaker 1: explain food policy to chefs, and I love this work,

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Speaker 1: and I love connecting with people, and I love being

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Speaker 1: a helper, and so in those ways, I think I

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Speaker 1: see myself fitting into this world. And this is the

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Speaker 1: dream that I always had. I just didn't know it

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Speaker 1: was going to come in this can.

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Speaker 2: I think you have a gift for spreading a message

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Speaker 2: and spreading information and really making people connect and care,

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Speaker 2: you know, dissemination, And to your point about how so

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Speaker 2: much of media can turn people off, it really speaks

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Speaker 2: to the importance of dissemination because I get sit down

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Speaker 2: and write the most compelling, nuanced, well researched piece on

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Speaker 2: an issue in the New York Times. But some people

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Speaker 2: are just never going to be the type of people

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Speaker 2: who pick up a New York Times newspaper, so that

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Speaker 2: message isn't getting to everybody who needs to hear it.

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Speaker 2: Something that we've just started doing recently on this podcast,

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Speaker 2: which is in addition to the sort of in depth

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Speaker 2: interviews like the one that you're on right now, we

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Speaker 2: also do these weekly news roundups where big issues around

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Speaker 2: technology and the Internet and how it's legislated we are

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Speaker 2: summarizing and making accessible now we're obviously just summarizing headlines

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Speaker 2: and stories written by other people, but we try to

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Speaker 2: put it in everyday language, make it accessible and give

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Speaker 2: people the context. And I really feel like when it

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Speaker 2: comes to tech, especially, there is something about the way

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Speaker 2: that these stories are framed that just, I don't know,

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Speaker 2: it just always turned me off. And if it's turning

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Speaker 2: me off, it's probably turning a lot of other folks

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Speaker 2: off too, so they just end up tuning it out

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Speaker 2: when they actually really need to hear it. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: most of these stories, in the way they were framed

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Speaker 2: and written, just did not speak to me as a

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Speaker 2: black woman. You know. Take AI for instance. Someone will

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Speaker 2: be reporting on AI and they would be talking about

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Speaker 2: it like a business story rather than how will this

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Speaker 2: technology impact me as somebody who was marginalized and disproportionately

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Speaker 2: harmed by technology? And sometimes it seems like these stories

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Speaker 2: were written in a way that ends up just shutting

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Speaker 2: people out who actually need to hear it. And we've

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Speaker 2: gotten a tremendous response from doing the news roundoms in

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Speaker 2: this way because I think people really want accessible kind

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Speaker 2: of like here's what you need to know, here's how

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Speaker 2: it will impact you. Coverage of important stories. You know,

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Speaker 2: that's what folks are really looking for. They don't want

437
00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,679
Speaker 2: to be scared into paying attention or guilted into paying attention.

438
00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,320
Speaker 2: They just want to know, Okay, what's going on? What

439
00:21:40,359 --> 00:21:42,439
Speaker 2: do I need to know? How will impact me? How

440
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 2: should I be thinking about it? How can I contextualize it?

441
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:46,520
Speaker 2: How should I internalize it? And this is what I

442
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,480
Speaker 2: think so many media outlets are just failing to do

443
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 2: for people who actually really do want it.

444
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,399
Speaker 1: So that and that speaks to lived experience, right, Like

445
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,040
Speaker 1: I always had a work, so I didn't have time.

446
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: Even in college, I had to work. I couldn't possibly

447
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,480
Speaker 1: so I never developed the skill to sit down on

448
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:04,800
Speaker 1: Sunday or at the end of my day or at

449
00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,160
Speaker 1: the beginning of my day and really get into reading

450
00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:10,159
Speaker 1: something and like really giving myself time to reflect on

451
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:10,679
Speaker 1: that something.

452
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:12,119
Speaker 3: I don't have a lot of time.

453
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,200
Speaker 1: But a lot of the people who get to speak,

454
00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:15,840
Speaker 1: and a lot of the people that get platform and

455
00:22:15,880 --> 00:22:18,879
Speaker 1: get to write, did have that experience because they immerse

456
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,720
Speaker 1: themselves culturally in that kind of time. They had that

457
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,560
Speaker 1: kind of time. I didn't have that kind of time.

458
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,760
Speaker 1: And so now they're writing, and they're writing expecting that

459
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,879
Speaker 1: the audience has had a similar walk of life that

460
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,199
Speaker 1: they did and they didn't. And so that's why for me,

461
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 1: the news is so quick at the end of the night,

462
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:35,879
Speaker 1: because I'm like, I got to tell you what you

463
00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:37,640
Speaker 1: got to know in a minute and a half because

464
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:39,679
Speaker 1: we got kids to feed, we got homework to do,

465
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,520
Speaker 1: or I've got another job to get to, or I've

466
00:22:42,520 --> 00:22:44,600
Speaker 1: got like my wife has rehearsal tomorrow night. So I'm

467
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: trying to like make sure I do the news before

468
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,480
Speaker 1: I drive a rehearsal. Like, there's all kinds of stuff

469
00:22:48,480 --> 00:22:52,639
Speaker 1: that we do, especially from marginalized groups, that take up

470
00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:54,960
Speaker 1: more of our time, that give us less time to reflect.

471
00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 1: So if I could get you something fast that's going

472
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 1: to tell you how it's going to affect you, and

473
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,120
Speaker 1: then you can just refer like on that one part

474
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,120
Speaker 1: or something. Now we've sort of like helped people catch

475
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,120
Speaker 1: up with the folks who have all this leisure time

476
00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:11,560
Speaker 1: to dive into the theology of what's going on.

477
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:14,879
Speaker 2: You know. Yes, I used to watch shows like Sex

478
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,680
Speaker 2: and the City or like movies that took place in

479
00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 2: New York and it would be like, oh, I'm just

480
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,720
Speaker 2: sitting around with my stack of like magazines and newspapers,

481
00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,280
Speaker 2: and it's like, who's doing that? Like what adult has

482
00:23:25,359 --> 00:23:28,000
Speaker 2: time to sit around with their like coffee and their

483
00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: five newspapers and just pour through them.

484
00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 1: I lived in New York for a number of years

485
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:38,199
Speaker 1: during and after college, and so many people nowadays, like

486
00:23:38,240 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: because I'm an elder millennial will be like, yeah, I

487
00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 1: remember when we used to like watch friends, remember Sex

488
00:23:42,520 --> 00:23:44,320
Speaker 1: and the City. Originally, I'm like, no, girl, I had

489
00:23:44,359 --> 00:23:46,920
Speaker 1: a work, I never was home at night to watch

490
00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: I never watched The Office.

491
00:23:48,440 --> 00:23:49,879
Speaker 3: I never watched any of these shows.

492
00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 1: The last sitcom I watched was Seinfeldt because I was

493
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,639
Speaker 1: in high school and like maybe I had time to

494
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: watch that with my dad if I was up late, right, Like,

495
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,640
Speaker 1: I never watched any of these shows about New York

496
00:23:58,720 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: because I lived there and I had I have a

497
00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,120
Speaker 1: lot of jobs, and people who.

498
00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,560
Speaker 2: Are like creating the fantasy of like what life looks

499
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 2: like there. It's like no people who actually are here.

500
00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:08,600
Speaker 3: They live in Ohio.

501
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, breaking news from there are no girls on the

502
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 2: internet news. This is voiceover narration bridget and I'm getting

503
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:20,920
Speaker 2: reports that anyone can get a microphone and start saying

504
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:23,240
Speaker 2: anything they want about the news and current events on

505
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 2: TikTok and try to get people to think they're a

506
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 2: reputable source. For instance, after the tragic murder of four

507
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:32,399
Speaker 2: students on the campus of University of Idaho, a self

508
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:37,040
Speaker 2: proclaimed Internet sleuthed and tarot card reader got tons and

509
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:42,160
Speaker 2: tons of views after reporting scare quotes about the case

510
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,239
Speaker 2: on TikTok and accusing a professor who had nothing to

511
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,199
Speaker 2: do with it of being the culprit. So for someone

512
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,240
Speaker 2: like me who was invested in our internet ecosystems being

513
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,199
Speaker 2: places where accurate information thrives, I gotta be honest, it

514
00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 2: worries me. But V says that's what happens when creators

515
00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,560
Speaker 2: are just focused on things like eyeballs and engagement rather

516
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,879
Speaker 2: than focusing on authentically amplifying stories that really matter, Because

517
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 2: when the latter happens, you get platforms that are flooded

518
00:25:10,040 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 2: with helpful, thoughtful stories, especially ones that might otherwise be

519
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:17,560
Speaker 2: underreported or overlooked. Think about all the different stories in

520
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,119
Speaker 2: the last few years that got more visibility because of

521
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 2: social media platforms like TikTok, Like the Tennessee three where

522
00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:27,400
Speaker 2: three lawmakers, two black and one a woman, were expelled

523
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:30,680
Speaker 2: from office over their protests in favor of gun control.

524
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: For Baby Chanel, an Indigenous child in Alaska living with

525
00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 2: non Native foster parents who racially demeaned her online, which

526
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,840
Speaker 2: shed light on the Indian Child Welfare Act. These stories

527
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:45,679
Speaker 2: should be told. They deserve to be told, and with

528
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,920
Speaker 2: more and more people making good content on platforms like TikTok,

529
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 2: these says that it increases the chances that those stories

530
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 2: will beach more people, so will all be better informed.

531
00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:57,959
Speaker 2: Back to you interview Bridget do you think that having

532
00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:01,199
Speaker 2: more and more people making their own news content on

533
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 2: platforms like TikTok, do you think that that will help

534
00:26:04,480 --> 00:26:07,720
Speaker 2: curb things like misinformation or be a way to help

535
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,960
Speaker 2: it or make it worse? Like? What are your thoughts.

536
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 1: I think the more people that are making content generally

537
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: the better. I think it's great for people to be

538
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: able to express themselves and you can see people grow.

539
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:21,840
Speaker 1: Some people who weren't that good in the beginning or

540
00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: were like overperforming, have now kind of relaxed and gotten better.

541
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 3: Other people have fallen off.

542
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,080
Speaker 1: What I think is great about everybody making content is

543
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: once they get over that kind of I do make

544
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:33,879
Speaker 1: it look kind of easy, right, Like, there are some

545
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,080
Speaker 1: people who can make this look like, oh I could

546
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,080
Speaker 1: do that, and that's great, until you go to do

547
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 1: it and you're like, oh, wait a minute, Like there's

548
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 1: like a level of skills that like maybe in a

549
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:44,320
Speaker 1: walk of life that I didn't share. But then they

550
00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,000
Speaker 1: start to narrow on on the stuff that they get

551
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:48,199
Speaker 1: positive attention for, which is oftentimes the things that they

552
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 1: are actually good at are genuinely interested in themselves. So

553
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: I think in those ways we've gotten a lot of

554
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: citizen journalists or pure journalists, whatever you want to call them,

555
00:26:55,680 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: news readers that have helped spread the message. Well, then

556
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,199
Speaker 1: you have the people who really don't understand the difference

557
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: between positive and negative attention and are just going to

558
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: say something to get hate stitches because their metric for

559
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 1: success is a number, not an engagement and not a

560
00:27:13,280 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: likability and not a trust thing. And so you see

561
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 1: those people sort of like firework up and then go away,

562
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,320
Speaker 1: and firework up and go away. The thing that I

563
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:22,520
Speaker 1: would warn against when it comes to making news content

564
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,800
Speaker 1: overall is to not just put yourself in reaction to

565
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,920
Speaker 1: your opposition. A lot of what we see on left

566
00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: wing news talk is people finding the most atrocious take

567
00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:36,680
Speaker 1: from somebody who is deeply far right with a small

568
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:41,920
Speaker 1: following often and amplifying them into the mainstream because they

569
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: said this horrible thing about bathing suits at Target, and

570
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,720
Speaker 1: they got stitched by all of left wing news talk right.

571
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,199
Speaker 1: That woman probably would not have had the platforms she

572
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:54,920
Speaker 1: did if we didn't amplify her right being the collective left,

573
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: same thing happens. And what that does when people do that,

574
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 1: is it not only platforms this horrible person who's never

575
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,600
Speaker 1: going to be a big star on their own because

576
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 1: the right already has their big stars, but they also

577
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: invite the fox into our henhouse. And now we've been

578
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:14,520
Speaker 1: my FYP was like slammed most of Pride with very

579
00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,240
Speaker 1: hateful things that were very disheartening to me and not celebrations.

580
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,080
Speaker 1: So what I would love to see is us talk

581
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: to our own and celebrate our own and amplify our

582
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,359
Speaker 1: own as opposed to being in reaction to what our

583
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 1: opposition says. Now, it's important to hold you know, the

584
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: other side accountable where we can, But as far as

585
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: amplifying single creators who say terrible things, their goal is

586
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,400
Speaker 1: just to get amplified, and you're never going to change

587
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,520
Speaker 1: their mind, and they're not acting from a place of reason,

588
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,040
Speaker 1: so there's no reason to give them any room. You

589
00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:42,880
Speaker 1: saw this when Tucker Carlson came off the air. The

590
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: week that he was off the air, Rachel Mattaw was

591
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: a little bit lost. And I really respect her as

592
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: a journalist. I mean, she's incredible, right, undeniably, but she

593
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:51,960
Speaker 1: was a little bit lost for like two or three

594
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,920
Speaker 1: days because her show had gotten so use to being

595
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:57,960
Speaker 1: in reaction to Tucker Carlson and all the stupid, horrible

596
00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,240
Speaker 1: things he said. The next week of her show show,

597
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: it was like the lights came on. She was talking

598
00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: about stuff she was interested in. She was bringing up

599
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:08,280
Speaker 1: the two new podcasts she had. She had a different

600
00:29:08,360 --> 00:29:10,680
Speaker 1: kind of energy because she was getting to report on

601
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: the things she cared about instead of being in reaction

602
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 1: to that far right figure that she had to correct

603
00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,640
Speaker 1: or try to balance. We're not going to correct or

604
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: balance them. So if you're a news creator and you're

605
00:29:19,840 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: looking at like what should I do? You might get

606
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: a lot of clicks up front by just sort of

607
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:26,120
Speaker 1: doing the outrage farm thing, but you will get a

608
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 1: lot more attention. Your videos will have a higher finish

609
00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: rate if you are talking about something that you actually

610
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: care about and sort of blocking out all the noise.

611
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:41,240
Speaker 1: TikTok rewards positive content, so they reward positivity, where Facebook

612
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: and Instagram and Twitter kind of reward division.

613
00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 2: It's so hard, both as a person who creates content

614
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 2: and also a person who consumes content, that line and

615
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 2: that balance is so hard. I found myself in my

616
00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:57,960
Speaker 2: the beginning stages of me on TikTok really watching a

617
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 2: lot of videos about like exactly like you described, like

618
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,440
Speaker 2: in like I'm angry about this, I'm outraged about this

619
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 2: and you should too. And boy, those videos really scratch

620
00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: an itch that I didn't know I had, and I

621
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,280
Speaker 2: don't love that I have. But at the end of

622
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:15,440
Speaker 2: the day, like it's kind of just boring to listen

623
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,560
Speaker 2: to somebody be outraged and be angry about something and

624
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,600
Speaker 2: be in reaction to something. Tell me what you love,

625
00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:24,120
Speaker 2: what are you about? What fills your cup? Like that

626
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:28,280
Speaker 2: Like that is what Like the outrage might get my eyeballs,

627
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: but the positive positivity is what keeps my eyeballs and

628
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,120
Speaker 2: keeps me interested and helps me form a relationship. I

629
00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:39,000
Speaker 2: think a big part of TikTok's infrastructure. Are these people

630
00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:41,280
Speaker 2: who come on strong with the outrage and get a

631
00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: lot of engagement, But that's just not sustainable because that's

632
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:45,920
Speaker 2: not what we're looking for us as humans. I don't

633
00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 2: think that's what makes us feel good.

634
00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 1: It's why they say that social media can be bad

635
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:52,200
Speaker 1: for your mental health, and a lot of it is

636
00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,880
Speaker 1: the doom scrolling or this outrage farming stuff, or feeling

637
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,200
Speaker 1: you have to be in reaction or you have to

638
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,200
Speaker 1: correct the world. You're never going to do that. We're

639
00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:00,000
Speaker 1: never going to do that. So what I have found

640
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: as best is to be like, what am I adding

641
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: to the conversation? What do people need to know? Every Thursday?

642
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: You know, I do good news only, And that's very

643
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: on purpose because I was finding by Thursday my audience

644
00:31:09,080 --> 00:31:11,760
Speaker 1: was exhausted of hearing what had gone on that week,

645
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,960
Speaker 1: because there's always so much kooky stuff going on. So

646
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: I try to stack the deck that I'm reading from

647
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: that day to be like, here's something super important, here's

648
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: something political, here's something funny, here's something super important, here's

649
00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: something funny, so that we can kind of like make

650
00:31:25,360 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: it through in a way that doesn't just suck away

651
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 1: all of our hope and also guess it's excited to

652
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:32,280
Speaker 1: see what comes in the next day. And then on Thursdays,

653
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: it's just all good news no matter what, because folks

654
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:39,000
Speaker 1: are exhausted by that point, and exhaustion is how hateful

655
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: content wins.

656
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 4: Right.

657
00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:44,160
Speaker 1: They have endless energy and resources to just bury you

658
00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: in doubt and in sadness, and so you could just

659
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:53,440
Speaker 1: opt out. You just don't participate. I just don't participate.

660
00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: I don't cover Marjorie Taylor Green. I don't cover Trump

661
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,440
Speaker 1: because these are things that I can't change anybody's mind done,

662
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:04,000
Speaker 1: and that are so unusual and that are so overcovered

663
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,280
Speaker 1: by the mainstream media that I'm like, you guys have

664
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,760
Speaker 1: more resources than me. You you do the heavy lifting

665
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 1: on that. What I want to tell you about while

666
00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:12,600
Speaker 1: you're doing three and a half hours of Trump's plane

667
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,480
Speaker 1: on the tarmac is the Tennessee three. I want to

668
00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:18,120
Speaker 1: tell you about this little thing that's happening. That movement

669
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:22,600
Speaker 1: was started on TikTok. They wouldn't be here without TikTok,

670
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:26,240
Speaker 1: an activist TikTok really taking that story as high as

671
00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: it could go. While the rest of the media was

672
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,640
Speaker 1: watching Trump's plane on a tarmac. So I think there's

673
00:32:30,680 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 1: a lot of space for good on TikTok and the news.

674
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 1: I think you just got to check yourself a lot

675
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: and say, why am I saying this? What do I

676
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: care about this? What can I do about this?

677
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 3: And is this my community?

678
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: Don't pick somebody else's community and then decide that you're

679
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,680
Speaker 1: going to speak for them, Like if you're a male creator,

680
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: don't be like, well, my mission is going to be

681
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: to uplift the voices of women, Robbie Harvey, that's gonna

682
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, that's not gonna work. You know,

683
00:32:56,600 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 1: what is your thing that you can hold all the

684
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 1: water for that, You're going to be a helper for that.

685
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 1: You're the best person to help explain and evangelize and

686
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: dig deep on right. Make sure it's your community too,

687
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 1: Not that we shouldn't be uplifting other communities, just make

688
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,520
Speaker 1: sure you're not speaking for that other community when you're

689
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:14,840
Speaker 1: building your content.

690
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 2: Because it's so mean, like folks on TikTok, so yes

691
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 2: to all of that. Folks on TikTok. If there's one

692
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 2: thing they can sniff out is somebody who is not

693
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,239
Speaker 2: being authentic. They are so they are so good at

694
00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 2: being like, wait a minute, something smells off here. So

695
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: if you are not authentically you know, amplifying them. If

696
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,520
Speaker 2: you're saying like I'm gonna like talk about for this community,

697
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,080
Speaker 2: I'm gonna speak for them, No, people will sniff that

698
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:44,520
Speaker 2: out so quickly. Don't.

699
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:46,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, tell their stories.

700
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: Point people in the direct, like this is what I

701
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: do with some of my Indigenous friends who are creators.

702
00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: Oftentimes we know that my face people are going to

703
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,920
Speaker 1: stop and they're going to read. So when there's something important,

704
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: I'll be like, hey, I'm gonna tell you the story

705
00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,680
Speaker 1: about baby Chanelle. But who you actually need to follow

706
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: for more information on this as X y Z people.

707
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:05,440
Speaker 1: And you make sure that those those community leaders are centered.

708
00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: You say, this is what they said, this is what

709
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,719
Speaker 1: they said they need, this is how you get it.

710
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,600
Speaker 1: And when you need more, you go talk to show

711
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: me your mask. You go talk to WITCHI, Twitchy, you

712
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: go talk to Bossy like. These are the people who

713
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: are leading this. They're going to have your everyday events.

714
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 1: This is their community. They're the speakers. I'm just here

715
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:23,840
Speaker 1: to make sure that y'all go look over there, because

716
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 1: I know I've got you know, a lot of attention,

717
00:34:25,880 --> 00:34:28,160
Speaker 1: so like, let me help direct your attention to somebody

718
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 1: who has a smaller platform but has something really important

719
00:34:30,200 --> 00:34:32,120
Speaker 1: to say. I think that can be a really great

720
00:34:32,160 --> 00:34:34,719
Speaker 1: way that TikTok allows us to collaborate. The duet and

721
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,440
Speaker 1: stitch feature on TikTok smokes the threads feature on Twitter

722
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:40,759
Speaker 1: because you have to put your face on it, so

723
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:42,400
Speaker 1: you have to really believe what you're saying when you

724
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: correct somebody or when you add to the story. And

725
00:34:44,680 --> 00:34:46,200
Speaker 1: I think that that's really powerful too.

726
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's It does have some features that I think

727
00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:52,239
Speaker 2: like really help move the conversation forward in some ways

728
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:55,000
Speaker 2: that are better than other platforms. Like on Twitter, somebody

729
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 2: can quote tweet you and say any old thing, whether

730
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:00,200
Speaker 2: it's true or not. You better really, like you're going

731
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 2: to call somebody out on TikTok, you better really, you know,

732
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:04,839
Speaker 2: have your ducks in a row.

733
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 1: And when you say something wrong and I've gotten I mean,

734
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:09,399
Speaker 1: you're gonna get stuff wrong.

735
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:10,600
Speaker 3: I really try not to.

736
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: It's rare that I get something wrong or that the

737
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: story changes very quickly and now it's different from what

738
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,560
Speaker 1: we thought. And I'll always do corrections because I don't

739
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:19,520
Speaker 1: think there's anything to me embarrassed about. When you have

740
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: to do a correction, you should do it as quickly

741
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,400
Speaker 1: and as efficiently and as honestly as you can is

742
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,479
Speaker 1: to make those corrections because it is your face out there.

743
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 3: So TikTok will get you, they'll hold you accountable. If

744
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:33,480
Speaker 3: you say something, I'll give you.

745
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: My example was the Chris Rock slap. I was watching

746
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: the Academy Awards or whatever it was award show and

747
00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:42,399
Speaker 1: he slept and I had it like this, I had

748
00:35:42,440 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: it so fast, and I got a bunch of messages

749
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:51,000
Speaker 1: from people being like, h do you really stand by

750
00:35:51,160 --> 00:35:53,439
Speaker 1: the way you reacted to that, or do you think

751
00:35:53,480 --> 00:36:00,040
Speaker 1: that perhaps sensationalizing two black men fighting is not the

752
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: best way to spend your night.

753
00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,440
Speaker 3: And I was like, you know what, You're so fucking right.

754
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 3: Like it was to me.

755
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:06,880
Speaker 1: I just saw them as like actors who were acting crazy.

756
00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 1: And Tabitha Speaks, who was the creator who I first

757
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:12,319
Speaker 1: saw the DM from, she was like, girl, stay out

758
00:36:12,320 --> 00:36:13,320
Speaker 1: of black people's business.

759
00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:14,520
Speaker 3: And I was like, you know.

760
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:19,279
Speaker 1: What, you are absolutely right, You're absolutely right right because

761
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 1: I'm seeing them as actors. But this speaks to such

762
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:24,000
Speaker 1: a bigger problem that went on as we saw. I

763
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:25,880
Speaker 1: took that video right down. It was a three million

764
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,000
Speaker 1: views after like two hours. When I took it down

765
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: and people were like, are you gonna talk about Chris Rock,

766
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: I'm like no, So when you're told you know what

767
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: I mean, you got to kind of like, I think

768
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: this is why I appreciate so much about my theater education.

769
00:36:39,160 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 1: For years, For forty years, I've stood in front of

770
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:43,959
Speaker 1: people who have been like, Eh, your freckles are weird.

771
00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:45,960
Speaker 1: You don't get the part. Ah, I don't like the

772
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: way you're standing, you don't get the part right. Like

773
00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 1: I can take a lot of like very constructive and

774
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,560
Speaker 1: even ridiculous criticism and just go okay and move on

775
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,560
Speaker 1: to the next thing. I think you have to be

776
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,279
Speaker 1: able to do that if you want to be a TikToker,

777
00:36:57,560 --> 00:36:59,600
Speaker 1: even if you have the best intentions and you think

778
00:36:59,640 --> 00:37:01,719
Speaker 1: you told the best story, or even if you think

779
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:03,600
Speaker 1: something's not a big deal and you're just talking about

780
00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: it because everybody else is talking about it. If somebody

781
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:08,359
Speaker 1: from the community you're talking about says to you, yo

782
00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: that I don't I don't think that was I think

783
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,359
Speaker 1: you might want to relook at that one or even says, yo,

784
00:37:13,480 --> 00:37:16,000
Speaker 1: that was a big mess up anything, then you have

785
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: to immediately believe them and adjust from there.

786
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 3: And that's how you can kind of, like, you know.

787
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 1: Keep people's trust and continue to try to tell better

788
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,919
Speaker 1: stories every day. But yeah, that was a good one.

789
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 2: That's a great example.

790
00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:30,759
Speaker 1: And there's nothing yeah to you, because I could have

791
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,200
Speaker 1: been like, what do you mean everybody's talking about it? No,

792
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:36,080
Speaker 1: you know what if you took the time to tell

793
00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 1: me that what I did was going to stand, was

794
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:42,040
Speaker 1: gonna not line up. Why, I'm so grateful to you,

795
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:44,760
Speaker 1: thank you for catching me so early. And there's nothing

796
00:37:44,800 --> 00:37:48,400
Speaker 1: worse than somebody who has been kind of gently called

797
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:51,560
Speaker 1: in but then is like, no, I'm gonna double down,

798
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:54,400
Speaker 1: Like it's not me, it's wrong at y'all, Like, don't

799
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: ever double down, never double terrible, much better, it's so bad.

800
00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 1: Just it's so much much easier to just put the

801
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:03,560
Speaker 1: video on friends only while you figure it out or

802
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:06,800
Speaker 1: whatever you want to do. Now, no issue, no video

803
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 1: is worth doubling down. It will because you double down,

804
00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,040
Speaker 1: three million people will triple down. Oh yeah, Like don't

805
00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: do it right, Yeah.

806
00:38:19,239 --> 00:38:31,920
Speaker 4: More after a quick break, let's.

807
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:32,560
Speaker 3: Get right back into it.

808
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,920
Speaker 2: So v is part of a community building a different

809
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,120
Speaker 2: kind of information ecosystem and they're doing it on TikTok.

810
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,960
Speaker 2: But all of this is threatened by a potential ban

811
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,880
Speaker 2: on TikTok. Back in March, when shows E Chou, the

812
00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,040
Speaker 2: CEO of TikTok, came before a Congressional hearing on the

813
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 2: Restrict Act, thee was there in their iconic black rimmed

814
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,799
Speaker 2: glasses and suit and tie, sitting right behind him.

815
00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 1: Anytime Congress is doing something that leaffully bipartisan, I'm always

816
00:39:01,840 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 1: like a little bit suspicious, you know, because it's not

817
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 1: often and it's never really good it. I was like,

818
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:11,319
Speaker 1: they are gleefully bipartisan right now. So I felt really

819
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,799
Speaker 1: nervous about that. And I think that they thought that

820
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:17,760
Speaker 1: they could blame China, they could look tough on China,

821
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:20,880
Speaker 1: that people would accept it. Understand the community that is

822
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:24,240
Speaker 1: on this platform, that is so strong and again trauma

823
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:26,640
Speaker 1: bonded because of the pandemic.

824
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:28,280
Speaker 3: This platform is offered.

825
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,520
Speaker 1: I think it's like five million small businesses the opportunity

826
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 1: to operate. So many people have achieved their dreams on

827
00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 1: this platform. It wasn't gonna fly, It was not gonna

828
00:39:36,680 --> 00:39:39,520
Speaker 1: go well. And so when I was looking at how

829
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 1: they were going to do it, a flat out TikTok

830
00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: ban would be bad for politics. So I was looking

831
00:39:43,520 --> 00:39:45,520
Speaker 1: at the people who were like ban TikTok well, US

832
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,040
Speaker 1: obviously against the First Amendment, I can't do that and

833
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: the Fourteenth, So I was like, those won't pass. But

834
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:55,959
Speaker 1: this restrict Act, I was like, oh, okay, eighty nine

835
00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: pages of legislation. They really thought about this one. So

836
00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 1: I printed it out, spend a couple of days like

837
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:06,000
Speaker 1: reading it. And I remember the Patriot Act. People think

838
00:40:06,040 --> 00:40:08,440
Speaker 1: I'm a lot younger than I am. I'm forty years old.

839
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:12,280
Speaker 1: And so I was in college when nine to eleven happened,

840
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,160
Speaker 1: and I remember the Patriot Act and my dad, you know,

841
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: being very involved in like why this was all happening.

842
00:40:20,239 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: And that did not go well for US, allowing the

843
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: government basically unchecked ability to monitor telecom.

844
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:31,640
Speaker 3: Because of terrorists, right, because of threats.

845
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 1: And so when I heard this coming, and I knew

846
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,080
Speaker 1: that because I keep up on politics obviously because of

847
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,040
Speaker 1: the Channel, I knew that the Patriot Act had kind

848
00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:42,560
Speaker 1: of expired, and I knew they were going to be

849
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: looking for another way to gain access to our information.

850
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,280
Speaker 1: So I'm looking at it and it wasn't just TikTok,

851
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 1: and it didn't even line item TikTok. It said foreign

852
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:57,800
Speaker 1: owned technology from these different places. It would include game chat,

853
00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,160
Speaker 1: it would include your TikTok communications. It could include ENCRYPTID

854
00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: communications from apps like you know, WhatsApp or Telegram or

855
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,399
Speaker 1: any of these other ones. And I was like, this

856
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:11,319
Speaker 1: is the Patriot AC two point zero, And so that

857
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 1: was what I went to my Senator Kirsten Gillibrand with.

858
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,400
Speaker 1: I was like, this reads like the Patriot AC two

859
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 1: point zero. And she was like if you her office

860
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: was like, if you knew what I knew about security

861
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: and you really loved your community, you wouldn't be fighting

862
00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:26,840
Speaker 1: so hard for TikTok. And I was like, then tell me,

863
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:29,759
Speaker 1: because I'm the best communicator on TikTok, and if the

864
00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: American public and especially my community, is in danger, then

865
00:41:33,160 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 1: you should tell me, because I will tell them because

866
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: I'm an American first and I'm a TikToker, like nineteenth

867
00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: on my list of things that I am, and so

868
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 1: if I'm a part of like a national security threat,

869
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:45,200
Speaker 1: I need to know that. I would love to know

870
00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,640
Speaker 1: that I would never do that, and they didn't have anything,

871
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 1: and I was like, because you don't have anything. And

872
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:51,319
Speaker 1: then I went to AOC's office and she was like,

873
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,000
Speaker 1: we've never been briefed. We've never had a national briefing

874
00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,640
Speaker 1: on a threat from TikTok And I was like, why

875
00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 1: are they doing this? And she was like, Mark Warner,

876
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 1: you know, he's a tech guy.

877
00:42:03,440 --> 00:42:04,160
Speaker 3: Maybe he was.

878
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:07,720
Speaker 1: This is like something that a lot of people want,

879
00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:10,080
Speaker 1: but it's not something that I think is well written.

880
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: She came out and made a TikTok about how she

881
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 1: thought it wasn't well written. And I just couldn't in

882
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 1: the amount of time that I spent in Congress with

883
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:19,960
Speaker 1: people I had made tiktoks with, could not get like

884
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:21,880
Speaker 1: a straight answer as to why this was happening and

885
00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: why the restrict Act was so necessary. Mark Warner himself

886
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,680
Speaker 1: couldn't explain his own legislation well. And so the TikTok

887
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:30,920
Speaker 1: hearing came, I knew that I wanted to sit behind

888
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 1: show too, because I wanted there was like nine of

889
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,880
Speaker 1: those people on that committee that have made tiktoks with me.

890
00:42:37,239 --> 00:42:39,120
Speaker 1: I wanted them to have to look at him and

891
00:42:39,239 --> 00:42:42,840
Speaker 1: look at me. As a comically recognizable part of TikTok.

892
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:45,920
Speaker 1: You are not just talking to him, You are talking

893
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: to a whole community of people. A lot of marginalized

894
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:51,359
Speaker 1: people have built their platform on TikTok that couldn't get

895
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 1: that traction anywhere else. You need to see the big

896
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 1: picture here and either be more honest with the American

897
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: people about what a threat it is and why and

898
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: how you're going to fix it, provide actual data privacy

899
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:03,680
Speaker 1: legislation that we're all asking.

900
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,280
Speaker 3: For, or knock it off.

901
00:43:06,920 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: And as you could see after the hearing and after

902
00:43:10,239 --> 00:43:13,160
Speaker 1: the entire Internet started calling their restrict Act Patriot C

903
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 1: two point zero, they have since dropped that for now.

904
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:21,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, it kind of really came on quick, and then

905
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:23,240
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, never mind, just kiduse.

906
00:43:23,440 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 3: Nobody wanted to touch it after the hearing.

907
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 2: That image of you with the hearing so front and center.

908
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:31,440
Speaker 2: I mean, that is like, I think that'll be in

909
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 2: history books when people are studying media and tech in

910
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:38,000
Speaker 2: twenty years or whatever. Like that was a real moment.

911
00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:41,120
Speaker 2: And I think, you know, you talk about marginalized communities,

912
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,440
Speaker 2: so many communities who have been traditionally left out of

913
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:47,720
Speaker 2: conversations have been able to build up platforms and voices

914
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,560
Speaker 2: on social media platforms like TikTok, And so if we

915
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:52,759
Speaker 2: just say na ah, y'all don't get to do that,

916
00:43:53,200 --> 00:43:56,480
Speaker 2: I really worry for the ways that those communities will

917
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: be able to have voices. There have been so many

918
00:43:59,040 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 2: stories that I would have never heard about if not

919
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:04,560
Speaker 2: for TikTok that were happening in completely different you know,

920
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,919
Speaker 2: sub sections of the Internet or different communities that I'm

921
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:10,400
Speaker 2: just not in. And so I really genuinely worried for

922
00:44:11,040 --> 00:44:14,319
Speaker 2: how we would be able to get news and make

923
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:16,719
Speaker 2: news stories happen and make people care about what's going

924
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,040
Speaker 2: on if not for platforms like TikTok. I thought it

925
00:44:19,080 --> 00:44:21,719
Speaker 2: was a real blow to those communities.

926
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 1: And when we think about communities, we're thinking about and

927
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 1: we say marginalized, we think about black and brown people,

928
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:31,080
Speaker 1: gay people, no, all kinds of smaller communities. We wouldn't

929
00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:33,320
Speaker 1: have had the frontline access to the war in Ukraine

930
00:44:33,320 --> 00:44:35,640
Speaker 1: if we didn't have TikTok. We wouldn't have had frontline

931
00:44:35,719 --> 00:44:38,760
Speaker 1: access to the women a Life freedom movement in Iran.

932
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: If it wasn't for TikTok and all of the Iranians

933
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,239
Speaker 1: here that we're speaking for the folks back home who

934
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:45,240
Speaker 1: have been so censored.

935
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 3: We wouldn't have a.

936
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 1: Million different stories. The Tennessee three, the George Floyd stuff

937
00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:54,560
Speaker 1: came from a citizen journalist with cell phone video. It

938
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 1: wasn't on TikTok, but TikTok was sort of starting shortly

939
00:44:57,920 --> 00:44:59,880
Speaker 1: after that and has continued this movement towards you.

940
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 3: It's not just.

941
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 1: Marginalized communities the way we traditionally think of them. It's

942
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 1: communities that don't get leading press. And I think if

943
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,720
Speaker 1: we've done one thing on TikTok over the last three years,

944
00:45:12,760 --> 00:45:16,920
Speaker 1: it's really get people educated on media literacy, on civic literacy,

945
00:45:17,000 --> 00:45:19,399
Speaker 1: on political activism and how to get involved and hold

946
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,759
Speaker 1: people accountable, and see that TikTok is the place that

947
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,520
Speaker 1: people can be held accountable. And I think it holds

948
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:28,240
Speaker 1: a higher trust factor for a lot of folks because

949
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,000
Speaker 1: it's not owned by Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg. So

950
00:45:31,080 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: their whole thing that this like very charming, adorable Singaporean

951
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,120
Speaker 1: man is the CEO who's young, right and really knew

952
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: what he was talking about with some sort of villain.

953
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,719
Speaker 1: They were like, have you who which this was my

954
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:46,800
Speaker 1: question to them about restrict dec So you say restrict

955
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 1: act or they have to sell it? Sell it to?

956
00:45:49,239 --> 00:45:51,680
Speaker 1: Who sell it to?

957
00:45:51,719 --> 00:45:51,919
Speaker 3: Who?

958
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 1: Finish the sentence? Sell it to who? Which one of

959
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,319
Speaker 1: the white boy billionaires gets to buy it?

960
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 3: Right?

961
00:45:56,880 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: Is it Elon Musk? Is it Zuckerberg? Who's got the

962
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:00,360
Speaker 1: money to even by it?

963
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:00,680
Speaker 2: Right?

964
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,320
Speaker 3: Is it Bill Gates? Like? Who sell it to? Who?

965
00:46:03,440 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 1: So that the American publican have a big picture, and

966
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,479
Speaker 1: you should also be thinking through what does that mean

967
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: the two communities that I had like in my back pocket.

968
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,360
Speaker 1: As if this continues to go forward, we need to

969
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:22,359
Speaker 1: like activate other marginalized communities. Religion, which we don't think

970
00:46:22,400 --> 00:46:24,759
Speaker 1: of them as marginalized because they're still very loud, but

971
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,880
Speaker 1: there are so many religious affiliations that are not Christian

972
00:46:28,960 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: that are very thrive on TikTok. Christians thrive on TikTok

973
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,920
Speaker 1: as well. And the military communities. A lot of the

974
00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,919
Speaker 1: military communities were saying that through TikTok they can see

975
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 1: their member who is deployed or who is otherwise engaged,

976
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: way more than they were allowed to before when they

977
00:46:44,160 --> 00:46:46,480
Speaker 1: only got certain number of phone calls through social media.

978
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,719
Speaker 1: In general, they are staying families are staying connected, and

979
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:53,560
Speaker 1: through social media, religions are building online ministries that would

980
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,680
Speaker 1: not otherwise exist. You're a gay kid in northeast or

981
00:46:56,719 --> 00:47:01,520
Speaker 1: northwest Arkansas and you find a universalist church on TikTok

982
00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,560
Speaker 1: like that's like the one led by Pastor Sarah. You're

983
00:47:04,560 --> 00:47:06,439
Speaker 1: going to find a place of inclusion in a path

984
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 1: to Jesus that you don't have in your little town.

985
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 3: And so we.

986
00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:13,520
Speaker 1: Can't give that up either. And these are the things

987
00:47:13,560 --> 00:47:17,840
Speaker 1: that I wish. I don't even think Congress was dumb

988
00:47:18,000 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: when they did this. They were like, well, do you

989
00:47:19,239 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: think the Biden administration is stupid? When they back to this,

990
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: I'm like.

991
00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:22,400
Speaker 3: I don't.

992
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:25,440
Speaker 1: I think that they were ill advised and uneducated on

993
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,800
Speaker 1: the communities. And that's the importance of diversifying your staff,

994
00:47:28,840 --> 00:47:31,800
Speaker 1: because if you had called me even one time, I

995
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,520
Speaker 1: would have been able to be like, yo, you're gonna

996
00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 1: get hit with all of this stuff from the communities

997
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: who are going to be like, you can't shut me down.

998
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: This is providing you know, life saving resources to some folks.

999
00:47:42,640 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's not like I mean, like you've worked

1000
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 2: with the White House before. It's not like they don't

1001
00:47:47,719 --> 00:47:49,839
Speaker 2: have your number, they know how to reach you.

1002
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:52,600
Speaker 1: I was like, y'all called me to make tiktoks during

1003
00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:53,680
Speaker 1: the election season.

1004
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: Like one of my last questions the question I asked

1005
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,120
Speaker 2: all of my fuel I interview, like when you think

1006
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,719
Speaker 2: of the future of news media, Like, what do you

1007
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:05,880
Speaker 2: think is the future of news media as it pertains

1008
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 2: to platforms like TikTok? And are you hopeful?

1009
00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:10,400
Speaker 3: I'm very hopeful.

1010
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:12,720
Speaker 1: And I actually think my grandma used to say scripts

1011
00:48:12,760 --> 00:48:15,160
Speaker 1: can only get so short before the maxi dress is

1012
00:48:15,200 --> 00:48:18,719
Speaker 1: back in fashion. And I think that's what we're seeing now.

1013
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 1: You know, some people might say the pendulum swings or something.

1014
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:22,479
Speaker 3: I think what we.

1015
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 1: Saw is like over the last decade or so, news

1016
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,320
Speaker 1: has become the twenty four hour news cycle, the divisiveness,

1017
00:48:28,360 --> 00:48:33,080
Speaker 1: the outrage farming, the personalities on cable news television, the

1018
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:37,399
Speaker 1: conglomerations of newspapers getting all bought up by by these

1019
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: big companies and billionaires. And I think what we're seeing

1020
00:48:40,560 --> 00:48:45,240
Speaker 1: is a return to citizen journalism, to neighbors sharing stories,

1021
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: to local journalism. And I think what we have in

1022
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 1: store for a fight is not necessarily fighting these big

1023
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: narratives so much as finding the resources to bring back

1024
00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,640
Speaker 1: local journalism, small newsletters. We're seeing a lot of success

1025
00:48:59,640 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: with you lists having sub stacks in different places where

1026
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:05,759
Speaker 1: you can follow somebody independent of the big newspapers and

1027
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:08,720
Speaker 1: big media companies, because we value that and we trust

1028
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:10,680
Speaker 1: those people. So I think what we're going to see

1029
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,799
Speaker 1: in the next ten years is a lot more of

1030
00:49:12,840 --> 00:49:16,279
Speaker 1: a breakup of the power that these big organizations have.

1031
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: And unfortunately we are already seeing it in the layoffs

1032
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:24,680
Speaker 1: at BuzzFeed or MTV shuttering MTV News or NPR even

1033
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,359
Speaker 1: or Vice. And I think that's horrible, and I think

1034
00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 1: that those are mortal wounds that really hurt us and

1035
00:49:30,719 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 1: hurt storytelling and hurt the dream of journalism. But what

1036
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:38,040
Speaker 1: we're picking up is this independent journalist having a lot

1037
00:49:38,080 --> 00:49:42,000
Speaker 1: more power, and with that power of independence gives you

1038
00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,839
Speaker 1: a lot more ability to tell a better truth. And

1039
00:49:44,880 --> 00:49:47,359
Speaker 1: so I think that that's really interesting and I think

1040
00:49:47,360 --> 00:49:49,759
Speaker 1: that's where we're going. But I think finding the resources

1041
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:53,200
Speaker 1: to support that many people is going to be the

1042
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: fight that we're actually in for.

1043
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 2: Are you ready and geared up for that fight?

1044
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 3: I am? I am ready in gear up.

1045
00:50:01,080 --> 00:50:05,040
Speaker 1: I also think that it's important for people to change

1046
00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 1: their version of success.

1047
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,840
Speaker 3: I used to talk about this with the chefs.

1048
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:12,840
Speaker 1: I do not have a dream of being like the

1049
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:15,399
Speaker 1: nightly news anchor on NBCA. I don't have a dream

1050
00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:17,600
Speaker 1: of being Lester Whole. I have a dream of being me,

1051
00:50:18,080 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 1: and being me requires a lot less resources, right than

1052
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 1: being a big, huge media news star. Think about that

1053
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: for yourself too. What do you need to be successful

1054
00:50:27,680 --> 00:50:30,279
Speaker 1: to have your niche really heard? How would you support that?

1055
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:32,440
Speaker 1: What does that look like? Because that might look like

1056
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,160
Speaker 1: two hundred thousand dollars as opposed to millions of dollars

1057
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:38,600
Speaker 1: that might look like having ten thousand really dedicated followers.

1058
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:40,960
Speaker 1: Were so down for the stuff you talk about as

1059
00:50:41,000 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 1: opposed to ten million nightly viewers for a big cable channel.

1060
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,400
Speaker 1: And I think we're going to see that rise of

1061
00:50:46,480 --> 00:50:49,799
Speaker 1: the of the micro influencer, of the local newscaster. And

1062
00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:53,319
Speaker 1: I hope that people can find success and peace and

1063
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:59,200
Speaker 1: space in just getting that successful and not having to maximalize, right.

1064
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:00,720
Speaker 3: Not like oh million followers.

1065
00:51:00,719 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 1: So the next thing for me is to try and

1066
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:04,719
Speaker 1: sell my show it to a CBS like no, no, No,

1067
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: keep your show and keep yourself, you know, right here

1068
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,560
Speaker 1: where you can be successful and give yourself space to

1069
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:12,480
Speaker 1: Breathe also.

1070
00:51:17,040 --> 00:51:19,080
Speaker 2: Got a story about an interesting thing in tech, or

1071
00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:21,000
Speaker 2: just want to say hi? You can read us at

1072
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:23,760
Speaker 2: Hello at tangodi dot com. You can also find transcripts

1073
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 2: for today's episode at tengody dot com. There Are No

1074
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:28,359
Speaker 2: Girls on the Internet was created by me Bridget Todd.

1075
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 2: It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed creative Jonathan Strickland

1076
00:51:32,160 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 2: as our executive producer. Tari Harrison is our producer and

1077
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,760
Speaker 2: sound engineer. Michael Almado is our contributing producer. I'm your host,

1078
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 2: Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, rate

1079
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:42,239
Speaker 2: and review.

1080
00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:43,000
Speaker 4: Us on Apple Podcasts.

1081
00:51:43,800 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 2: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, check out the iHeartRadio app,

1082
00:51:46,680 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.