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Speaker 1: This is Wall Street Week. I'm David Weston bringing you

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Speaker 1: stories of capitalism this week, the risks and rewards of

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Speaker 1: nuclear energy at a time when we need all the

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Speaker 1: power we can get, plus immigration and economic realities. How

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Speaker 1: a glass factory in Fargo, North Dakota is filling the

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Speaker 1: demand for labor. But we begin with the story about

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Speaker 1: big global problems and about finding the money we need

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Speaker 1: to solve them.

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Speaker 2: So our aspirations are limitless, driving our work to deliver

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Speaker 2: a better bank because eventually we will need a bigger bank.

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Speaker 1: That's a Jay Banga, former CEO of MasterCard and current

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Speaker 1: President of the World Bank, speaking in Morocco a year ago,

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Speaker 1: just a few months after taking the top job. But

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Speaker 1: what is a better World Bank and what does a

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Speaker 1: bigger World Bank look like? To answer that, we need

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Speaker 1: to go all the way back to the end of

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Speaker 1: the Second World War.

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Speaker 3: About eighty years ago, when the Bretonwoods Meeting took place.

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Speaker 3: There was this important emphasis on helping to restructure and

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Speaker 3: recreate the destruction that was done after the World War Two,

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Speaker 3: and there was this emphasis on how do we go forward?

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Speaker 3: So a number of multilaterals were created then and since

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Speaker 3: then many more have come into existence all over the world,

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Speaker 3: and their job was really to take capital that was

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Speaker 3: generated from governments and turn that into a leverage form

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Speaker 3: of capital to give that out to different entities.

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Speaker 4: The various institutions have morphed a lot.

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Speaker 3: So for example, the World Bank was created to help

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Speaker 3: with the reconstruction of Japan and Europe, and now it's

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Speaker 3: been working for many, many years on on helping emerging

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Speaker 3: markets and developing countries, which covers a lot of very

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Speaker 3: different countries with very different economic structures and systems and

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Speaker 3: income levels.

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Speaker 1: Asni Beschloss is the CEO and founder of Rock Creek

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Speaker 1: and worked at the World Bank, including as treasurer and

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Speaker 1: Chief Investment Officer in the eighties and nineties, she's witnessed

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Speaker 1: firsthand the evolution of the Bank into what it is today.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, emerging markets cover all the way from China, which

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Speaker 3: is a huge economy, to small countries.

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Speaker 4: Like Peru or Sierra Alone.

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Speaker 3: You know, so fasts with very very different economics, populations,

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Speaker 3: education levels, culture, et cetera. So what you mean by

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Speaker 3: development is really bringing education, health, other social sector development

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Speaker 3: needs to these countries, but also helping build their bridges,

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Speaker 3: their dams, their clean energy, infrastructure and communications, and also

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Speaker 3: their financial system, so you know, for example, helping to

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Speaker 3: develop fintech in Latin America. So it's a very big

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Speaker 3: range of things that the development institutions work with.

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Speaker 5: Well.

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Speaker 6: The multilateral banks, which include the World Bank, the African

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Speaker 6: Development Bank, but also the International Monetary Fund, have significant

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Speaker 6: financial capability to address exactly this type of debt crisis

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Speaker 6: in low income economies. In fact, that's basically why they

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Speaker 6: were created was to help reconstruct the world after World

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Speaker 6: War Two and give developing countries a chance to grow

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Speaker 6: their economies so they could become safe and productive trading

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Speaker 6: partners with the United States and our allies. And so

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Speaker 6: right now we believe that those institutions have to really

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Speaker 6: step up their efforts to provide debt relief, to provide

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Speaker 6: long term, stable and low cost capital for the public

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Speaker 6: sector economies of these countries, and to actually finance the

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Speaker 6: global public goods, including the fight against climate change, in

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Speaker 6: economies that simply have no fiscal space to make those

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Speaker 6: investments on their own.

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Speaker 1: The World Bank's total disbursements have risen every year since

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen at a rate outpacing global economic growth, but

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Speaker 1: that doesn't take into account repayments to the bank, and

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Speaker 1: they haven't necessarily kept up with the growing needs of

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Speaker 1: lower and middle income countries. If they're to get to

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Speaker 1: anything as big as a j Banga is hoping for,

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Speaker 1: he says, they'll need to turn to the private market.

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Speaker 7: The only way this is going to work is by

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Speaker 7: getting private sector capital, private sector innovation, in genuity technology

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Speaker 7: that people that ambition to make return on their capital,

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Speaker 7: but to come to the party where it's possible, whether

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Speaker 7: it's a good business model.

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Speaker 1: There are those who agree with Banga's call for private capital,

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Speaker 1: among them Rod Shah, the president of the Rockefeller Foundation

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Speaker 1: and former administrator of the US Agency for International Development

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Speaker 1: in Barack Obama's White House.

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Speaker 6: Well, to be honest, we're all always trying to attract

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Speaker 6: private capital, especially from outside.

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Speaker 4: Of the country.

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Speaker 6: Right now, the foreign exchange environment is a very complex

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Speaker 6: and risky one for countries, so we were building tools

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Speaker 6: that take the risk out for those types of investors.

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Speaker 6: The two biggest issues for would be investors are policy

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Speaker 6: and regulatory clarity and consistency, which often also means anti

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Speaker 6: corruption efforts that are serious, and then secondarily taking the

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Speaker 6: risk out, especially on the foreign currency side. So for example,

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Speaker 6: on the currency risk removal exercise, the World Bank is

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Speaker 6: already planning to commit significant new resources to instruments that

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Speaker 6: basically protect foreign investors from foreign currency exchange rate fluctuations

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Speaker 6: over time, and those types of solutions are going to

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Speaker 6: be absolutely critical to success.

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Speaker 1: Though addressing those risks will surely help. The competition for

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Speaker 1: private capital is as tough as ever.

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Speaker 3: So in general, you know, if you look twenty years ago,

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Speaker 3: emerging markets was the place where you would have faster growth,

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Speaker 3: you would have higher returns, higher risk adjusted returns, and

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Speaker 3: that's why the capital.

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Speaker 4: Would go there.

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Speaker 3: So if we look today, that has happened in some countries.

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Speaker 3: So if you look at an India, let's say over

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Speaker 3: the last ten years, equity markets ten percent up, Taiwan

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Speaker 3: for obvious reasons because of being a center of innovation

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Speaker 3: and chip making thirteen percent.

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Speaker 4: Over the last ten years.

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Speaker 3: And you have another set of forces going on which

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Speaker 3: is completely changed in the last year or two, which

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Speaker 3: is Ai.

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Speaker 4: With ai comes huge need for.

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Speaker 3: Power and data centers that need this enormous power.

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Speaker 4: So the big.

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Speaker 3: Job, really enough for Ajabanga and the leaders of the

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Speaker 3: other multilateral banks is how do I compete to get

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Speaker 3: private sector money in this kind of environment If in

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Speaker 3: the past it was not proven that the returns could

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Speaker 3: be the returns that weren't expected. If now there's this

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Speaker 3: com petition we're sitting in Virginia, you could be investing

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Speaker 3: in data centers, where there's regulation, where there's a rule

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Speaker 3: of law, where there is no country risk, where there's

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Speaker 3: no currency risk. I think the bank helps reduce your

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Speaker 3: country risk and your repayment risks. You know, if you're

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Speaker 3: aligned with the bank, and if you're investing together with

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Speaker 3: the bank, you expect that you will get your capital

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Speaker 3: return and the return and hopefully some other returns. The

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Speaker 3: big issue there is that that is no longer enough.

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Speaker 1: So if private capital is the key to achieving a

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Speaker 1: bigger World Bank, how then to make it better? Specialist says,

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Speaker 1: part of the problem today has been getting money into

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Speaker 1: the right hands.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, there's been a lot of studies on how to

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Speaker 3: help generate more money.

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Speaker 4: For the World Bank.

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Speaker 3: But it's a really great question, David, because as we

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Speaker 3: sit here today, World Bank actual disbursements in the last

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Speaker 3: few years has been anything between ten billion and twenty billion.

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Speaker 3: I don't think that's anywhere close to what we're just

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Speaker 3: talking about, because these countries literally need trillions. So this

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Speaker 3: is net dispersements after they've repaid their debt to the

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Speaker 3: World Bank.

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Speaker 4: So you do need a lot more.

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Speaker 3: So the question is within its existing capital structure. The

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Speaker 3: World Bank could be giving meant much more, but if

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Speaker 3: it starts getting closer to a certain level, it does

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Speaker 3: need to have more capital. So it's the chicken and

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Speaker 3: egg where you do need more resources, but you need

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Speaker 3: to start using your existing ability to generate loans and guarantees.

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Speaker 1: One place to start could be the need for speed. Currently,

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Speaker 1: dispersements take an average of twenty seven months from the

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Speaker 1: time the bank gets a loan request to when the

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Speaker 1: money shows up, a timeframe that Banga says is unacceptable.

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Speaker 2: We tell communities to pay patiently, whether children grow well,

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Speaker 2: poverty deepens will untreated illness is worse, and the warm

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Speaker 2: to clean water is packed harder every step, sometimes ten

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Speaker 2: years before the first benefits are felt. That is a lifetime.

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Speaker 2: We have to do better. There is precious time they

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Speaker 2: can save. We have the entire process in our process.

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Speaker 1: You know the culture of the World Bank, having worked

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Speaker 1: there in a senior role, and as they say, culture

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Speaker 1: eats strategy for lunch. Yes, Ajia banker came in saying,

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Speaker 1: I want to make the bank better before we make

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Speaker 1: it bigger. There are those who say he has made

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Speaker 1: some progress. Absolutely that he's expedited some things. It takes

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Speaker 1: less time to get some things decided upon. Has it

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Speaker 1: made progress.

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Speaker 3: I think he definitely has made some progress. If you

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Speaker 3: talk to people in the bank, you know, depends on

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Speaker 3: who you talk to, you get different stories.

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Speaker 4: But one of the two things.

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Speaker 3: That do need to still happen is really this culture

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Speaker 3: of urgency because at the end of the day, you're

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Speaker 3: there to serve the countries that have these biginess.

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Speaker 4: That's your job.

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Speaker 3: You're thevironment, so you have to be much faster on

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Speaker 3: your feet to get things done.

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Speaker 1: Next on Wall Street Week, how and why North Dakota

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Speaker 1: is embracing immigrants for the sake of its economy.

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Speaker 8: This is Bloomberg Wall Street Week with David Weston from

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Speaker 8: Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: This is a story about our neighbors, who they are,

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Speaker 1: whether we really know them, and why we need them.

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Speaker 1: Neighbors like Anna Yore of Fargo, North Dakota.

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Speaker 9: You can work in in gamel glass without no sperien,

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Speaker 9: without know English, what's for.

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Speaker 4: Immigrant and anyone in it job my yao, missine TECHNICIANE.

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Speaker 9: I'm making spots of the window at this so you

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Speaker 9: make it and then put that blaff on.

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Speaker 1: You're moved from South Sudan to the city of Fargo

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Speaker 1: fourteen years ago, seeking a better life. In twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: she started working at Cardinal Glass and has been an

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Speaker 1: employee there ever since.

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Speaker 9: Have Minnie immigrants, we worked like a family, a friend

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Speaker 9: and team work and we help, we support each other.

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Speaker 10: So here in Fargo we have three hundred and forty

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Speaker 10: seven teammates. About seventy percent of our team is comprised

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Speaker 10: of people born outside of the UNI United States.

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Speaker 1: Plant manager Mike Arnson has worked at Cardinal Glass Fargo

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Speaker 1: since it opened in nineteen ninety eight. The company manufactures

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Speaker 1: residential glass for windows and doors, with ten thousand employees

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Speaker 1: across its forty nine locations. In Fargo alone, it employs

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Speaker 1: about four hundred workers.

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Speaker 10: What we want to do is attract and hire the

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Speaker 10: most qualified, the best qualified teammates that we can attract,

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Speaker 10: And it just so happens that a lot of those

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Speaker 10: folks that we're attracting happen to be immigrants, and we're

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Speaker 10: more than happy to have them here.

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Speaker 1: According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, North Dakota has

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Speaker 1: the worst worker shortage in America, with only thirty workers

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Speaker 1: for every one hundred available jobs. That's well below the

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Speaker 1: national average of ninety five workers for every one hundred jobs.

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Speaker 11: There are thirty thousand open jobs in North Dakota, and

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Speaker 11: although our workforce continues to grow, if we get every

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Speaker 11: high school and college graduate, every individual coming out of

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Speaker 11: our correction system, every person on disability into the workforce tomorrow,

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Speaker 11: we would still have thousands of open jobs. And so

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Speaker 11: we really do need to be looking outside of our

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Speaker 11: states borders and outside of our nation's borders to help

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Speaker 11: identify how we can recruit workers to fill the jobs

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Speaker 11: that we have available.

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Speaker 1: Katie Rolston Howe is director of North Dakota's Workforce Division,

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Speaker 1: overseeing the newly created Office of Legal Immigration. Their goal

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Speaker 1: to bring together immigrants seeking employment and companies that need workers.

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Speaker 11: With the political climate that we're in, immigration has become

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Speaker 11: a really hot topic, and when we talk about the

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Speaker 11: work that we're doing through the Office of Legal Immigration,

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Speaker 11: a lot of times the conversation does go to conversations

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Speaker 11: around the border or illegal immigration, and that's really not

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Speaker 11: what we're doing.

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Speaker 4: Really.

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Speaker 11: Our focus is proactively identifying appropriate pathways and programs that

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Speaker 11: we can utilize to help fill jobs in North Dakota.

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Speaker 11: Employers have been responding really well. There's a ton of

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Speaker 11: enthusiasm around the work that we're doing. Communities are responding

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Speaker 11: well too, and so we've been able to really work

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Speaker 11: with those who are already working in this space.

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Speaker 1: North Dakota may be the extreme case, but its shortage

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Speaker 1: of workers can be seen in various forms across the country.

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Speaker 1: According to the US Chamber of Commerce, labor shortages affect

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Speaker 1: just about every industry in nearly every state. Although shortages

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Speaker 1: have become less significant over the past two years, the

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Speaker 1: latest national data show that we still have over eight

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Speaker 1: million job openings in the US and fewer than seven

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Speaker 1: million people looking for those jobs. Pa Oranius is a

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Speaker 1: labor economist with a Dallas Federal Reserve. Her research focuses

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Speaker 1: on regional economic growth and demographic change.

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Speaker 12: There are areas of the countries, especially the more rural state,

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Speaker 12: where there's a great need for workers, but at the

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Speaker 12: same time their populations are stagnant or declining, and so

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Speaker 12: they have a tremendous need for workers, and of course,

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Speaker 12: if you had a good policy, immigrants would be one

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Speaker 12: of the best ways to funnel workers to those regions.

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Speaker 1: As the overall size of the US workforce has grown,

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Speaker 1: the proportion of immigrants in that workforce has grown as well,

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Speaker 1: going from just over fifteen percent back in twenty ten

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Speaker 1: to over nineteen percent today. That's some thirty three million people.

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Speaker 1: The construction industry had the highest share of immigrant workers

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two, and estimated it's three point three

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Speaker 1: million people, or eleven point seven percent of all immigrant employment.

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Speaker 1: In comparison, there were just over eight million native born

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Speaker 1: workers in construction in twenty twenty two, representing six point

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Speaker 1: two percent of all native born employment.

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Speaker 12: We're in a demographic fall. We know that, slowly but surely,

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Speaker 12: we're seeing the baby boomers retire, the aging of the

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Speaker 12: US labor for the declining birth rates, and we know

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Speaker 12: that labor shortages are not just a cyclical matter. They're

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Speaker 12: actually a structural matter for the US economy. And if

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Speaker 12: you look out ten years or so, we're actually looking

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Speaker 12: at a point in time where the US born workforce

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Speaker 12: will begin to decline. In fact, we will have no

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Speaker 12: growth in the workforce without immigration. We've been very lucky

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Speaker 12: in the US that immigrants have wanted to come to

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Speaker 12: this country and they've contributed labor supply. In terms of

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Speaker 12: their contributions to the economy. This labor supply has boosted growth.

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Speaker 12: They've also tended to come in the areas of the

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Speaker 12: economy where we have relative scarcity where we need workers,

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Speaker 12: and so whether it's on the high skill end of

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Speaker 12: the distribution or the low skill end of the distribution,

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Speaker 12: we tend to bring in workers where there's fewer American workers,

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Speaker 12: and so immigrants are really complementing that US labor force.

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Speaker 12: This has really been key to rounding out the economy,

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Speaker 12: addressing needs in different sects, and so definitely mostly sectors

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Speaker 12: on more of the load to medium skilled end, because

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Speaker 12: obviously it takes immigrants a while to learn the language,

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Speaker 12: to get the skill set and the networks to sort

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Speaker 12: of move up the job ladder in the US economy.

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Speaker 12: But for now they're filling important needs in these sectors

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Speaker 12: that employ recent immigrants and more the low skilled immigrants.

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Speaker 12: Now looking forward, now that the economy is more imbalanced.

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Speaker 12: Labor markets are more balanced, and we're really approaching a

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Speaker 12: kind of a normalization after four years of a pandemic hangover.

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Speaker 12: I think what we're looking to now is more of

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Speaker 12: the structural factors that affect labor markets in the US

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Speaker 12: and that are going to limit growth going forward. So

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Speaker 12: we look at the demographics of the US labor force,

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Speaker 12: We look at the retirement of the baby boomers, the

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Speaker 12: aging of the workforce, the falling birth rates, and we

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Speaker 12: know that in ten to fifteen years we won't have

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Speaker 12: a growing US born workforce, and that really all the

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Speaker 12: growth in the workforce is going to come from immigration.

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Speaker 12: And that's the reality of where we are, and that's

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Speaker 12: where we need to address policy in order to enable

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Speaker 12: and facilitate more immigration if we want to continue to

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Speaker 12: grow that labor force.

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Speaker 1: The immigrant labor force has meant a steady stream of

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Speaker 1: workers for the Cardinal Glass factory, but for anyone who

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Speaker 1: thinks this is a local story, think again. It's also

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Speaker 1: helped create real economic benefits for businesses and for the

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Speaker 1: country as a whole. Economists point to immigration as one

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Speaker 1: of the key factors that kept GDP and job growth

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Speaker 1: strong in the wake of an aggressive fed hiking cycle.

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Speaker 1: Even as inflation has cooled off around the world, other

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Speaker 1: major economies haven't been so fortunate, with China, Japan, and

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Speaker 1: South Korea among the countries grappling with net migration levels

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Speaker 1: that are too low to counteract population declines.

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Speaker 13: The reason why we've seen significant increases in labor supply

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Speaker 13: and labor force participation it's legal immigration has come back

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Speaker 13: after COVID and after the Trump administration, as well as

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Speaker 13: more women coming into the workforce. That process of legal

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Speaker 13: immigration that is now normalized, and the Biden administration prioritized,

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Speaker 13: for example, working down visa backlogs and trying to get

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Speaker 13: to a more normal system. I think under a Trump

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Speaker 13: administration you could expect that to revert. And I think

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Speaker 13: in addition to that being bad for innovation and bad

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Speaker 13: for broader economic growth, it could also be quite inflationary

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Speaker 13: in the short term, because what you're doing is constricting

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Speaker 13: labor supply at a moment where we need more We

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Speaker 13: need more workers. In the United States, our legal immigration

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Speaker 13: system has been an engine for growth for decades.

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Speaker 8: For a long time, North.

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Speaker 1: Dakota businesses like Cardinal Glass have no doubts about how

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Speaker 1: important immigrant workers are to the success of its operations

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Speaker 1: and to the North Dakota economy overall.

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Speaker 10: As the economy grows, we need people to move to

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Speaker 10: Farga more ahead to help us run our businesses. And

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Speaker 10: whether they come from Kansas City or New York City

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Speaker 10: or Los Angeles or Somalia or Bosnia, we just need

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Speaker 10: people to move here to help keep our economy growing.

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Speaker 10: You don't even have to speak English to come work

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Speaker 10: at Cardinaligi. We've cracked the code on that. We have

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Speaker 10: master trainers that are multilingual, that can train our new

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Speaker 10: teammates in their native language, and so we have entry

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Speaker 10: level jobs where we can get people contributing right away,

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Speaker 10: and as they grow in their comfort in those entry

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Speaker 10: level jobs, then they can graduate onto jobs with a

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Speaker 10: little more difficulty, a little more skills required, and probably

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Speaker 10: within the course of a year, they can be contributing

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Speaker 10: in a lot of different ways.

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Speaker 1: For the management at Cardinal Glass and for its workers,

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Speaker 1: immigration isn't about politics. It's about business and maybe something else.

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Speaker 1: It's about reaching out to neighbors like Anna Yore to

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Speaker 1: build relationships that work for both parties, which has proven

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Speaker 1: to be the right as well as the smart thing

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Speaker 1: to do. Next on Wall Street Week, the shifting balance

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Speaker 1: of costs versus benefits for nuclear power.

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Speaker 8: This is Bloomberg Wall Street Week with David Weston from

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Speaker 8: Bloomberg Radio.

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Speaker 1: This is a story about changing our minds when the

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Speaker 1: facts change, and when we need to. For years, we've

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Speaker 1: heard about the costs and dangers of nuclear power, stemming

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Speaker 1: in large part from two commercial disasters some forty years ago,

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Speaker 1: compounded by the ways governments responded and the news media

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Speaker 1: covered them.

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Speaker 8: It was the first step and a nuclear nightmare.

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Speaker 14: The accident occurred here at the Three Mile Island Nuclear

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Speaker 14: Power Plant, a dozen miles south of Harrisburg. It took

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Speaker 14: a full eighteen days before the Soviet leader Mikhail Gorbachev

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Speaker 14: made any public pronouncement on the nuclear disaster. Returnable today

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Speaker 14: on Soviet television, mister Gorbachev said the accident has deeply

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Speaker 14: affected the Soviet people.

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Speaker 15: Engineers are fighting to contain the damage to this nuclear

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Speaker 15: facility in Japan, warning that one of the reactors could

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Speaker 15: melt down.

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Speaker 1: But today, the need for more and cleaner energy is

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Speaker 1: changing the cost benefit equation, and opinion in the US

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Speaker 1: has started to shift. The majority of Americans now say

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Speaker 1: they support more nuclear power. One of those supporters is

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Speaker 1: Heather Haff Fear.

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Speaker 15: Of nuclear is dangerous, but nuclear itself isn't.

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Speaker 1: Haff is co founders of Mothers for Nuclear, a group

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Speaker 1: she started on Earth Day in twenty sixteen to address

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Speaker 1: some of the misconceptions about nuclear energy.

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Speaker 15: I think when we talk about risk, it's also important

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Speaker 15: to ask, you know, like, what is the actual impact

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Speaker 15: when something happens? And so everyone kind of knows the

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Speaker 15: big three things that have hapen in a nuclear a

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Speaker 15: three mile Island, Chernobyl, and Fukushima. And when we go

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Speaker 15: back and we look at those events and say, what

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Speaker 15: was the impact to human health, our environment, the planet,

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Speaker 15: it's pretty minimal, and even some of the impacts that

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Speaker 15: we did feel were caused by our own overreaction to

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Speaker 15: those incidents. We have rallies and marches to show our

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Speaker 15: support for nuclear energy.

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Speaker 4: We talk about.

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Speaker 15: Why nuclear is important for our community. We give tours

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Speaker 15: of nuclear energy and power plants, and try and share

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Speaker 15: share with people our hope for the future and how

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Speaker 15: nuclear supports clean energy for people. I started out not

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Speaker 15: really knowing much about nuclear energy, and I was feeling

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Speaker 15: pretty nervous about it. After I graduated from college with

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Speaker 15: an engineering degree. I couldn't find a job locally. I

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Speaker 15: did a random asortment of things, all while trying to

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Speaker 15: avoid working at our local nuclear plant, but eventually said,

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Speaker 15: you know, maybe I can get curious and ask some

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Speaker 15: questions and learn a little more about it. So I

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Speaker 15: took a job in operations at the plant, and my

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Speaker 15: conclusion after about six years of doing this was that

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Speaker 15: nuclear is amazing. I think safety is a little bit

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Speaker 15: of a tricky word, and maybe we need to talk

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Speaker 15: about it differently, more in terms of risk. And it

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Speaker 15: turns out that a lot of things about nuclear sound scary,

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Speaker 15: but that doesn't mean that they're dangerous. So I think

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Speaker 15: that was something that took me a long time to learn.

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Speaker 1: On the other side of the equation, there is no

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Speaker 1: doubt that we need a lot more energy, and may

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Speaker 1: well need nuclear to deliver a good part of it,

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Speaker 1: with over seventy five percent of the demand coming from

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Speaker 1: two categories transportation and industrial needs.

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Speaker 16: Today we use perhaps three times more electricity than we

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Speaker 16: did in the nineteen eighties, and you were doing much

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Speaker 16: more with it. Our productivity had exceeded the growth in

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Speaker 16: the use of electricity, so there's a very efficient use

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Speaker 16: case there.

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Speaker 1: Dan Briatt is the former US Secretary of Energy and

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Speaker 1: now runs Edison Electric Institute, which represents all US investor

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Speaker 1: owned electric companies.

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Speaker 16: It's important for the nation to realize that we're going

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Speaker 16: to need more energy, so we start with that basic fact.

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Speaker 16: As the economy grows, as populations grow, we're going to

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Speaker 16: need more energy. It's what drives our economy. As I

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Speaker 16: like to say, often energy generally makes up roughly five

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Speaker 16: percent of the nation's gross domestic product or GDP. There's

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Speaker 16: also a reindustrialization that's occurring here in America. Manufacturing is

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Speaker 16: coming back to the United States. Heavy industry is looking

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Speaker 16: to use electricity to help them decarbonize or help them

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Speaker 16: meet emissions goals or environmental goals. It's really really important

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Speaker 16: that we address that demand in a way that's going

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Speaker 16: to allow the economy to grow, allow us to continue

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Speaker 16: our competitive edge. Today, if you use artificial intelligence to

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Speaker 16: do a Google search, you're using approximately ten times more

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Speaker 16: electricity than you would if you had used a different

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Speaker 16: type of search or search that's from an engine perhaps

444
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 16: five or six years ago. All of these demands are

445
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 16: coming to the grid. Nuclear is so dense that it

446
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 16: can actually help meet that in a very, very environmentally

447
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 16: responsible way.

448
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:28,240
Speaker 1: One of the firms working to meet the country's rising

449
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: demand for power is Whole Tech International. That's an energy

450
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: technology firm that's developing cheaper and more compact nuclear reactors

451
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,160
Speaker 1: known as SMRs.

452
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,240
Speaker 17: Small modular reactors have been around since the fifties and sixties.

453
00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:44,600
Speaker 17: They were created by the Navy. Eventually they were created

454
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,600
Speaker 17: for civilian purposes. In the case of Hours, which is

455
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:52,119
Speaker 17: a three hundred megawatt reactor, we expect two reactors to

456
00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,879
Speaker 17: be built on the Palisade sites on just a footprint

457
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,280
Speaker 17: of about thirty acres, which by power plant standards is

458
00:26:58,280 --> 00:27:00,639
Speaker 17: a very small plant, and we expect to break ground

459
00:27:00,640 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 17: in twenty seven and we expect the first plants to

460
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 17: be online at the end of twenty thirty and twenty

461
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 17: thirty one.

462
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:11,400
Speaker 1: Ultex new reactor would be both smaller and safer than

463
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,879
Speaker 1: traditional plants, The firm's vice president and head at SMR

464
00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:19,159
Speaker 1: Manufacturing says, the new technology represents a new chapter in

465
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:21,120
Speaker 1: nuclear energy infrastructure.

466
00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,600
Speaker 18: In my opinion, it's going to be a game changer

467
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 18: for green energy, clean, safe, and reliable. It's going to

468
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:38,359
Speaker 18: come and very become very important, especially with the development

469
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,360
Speaker 18: of AI electrical vehicles and a lot of the other

470
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,280
Speaker 18: initiatives to be able to keep the lights on. Large

471
00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 18: standard nuclear plants can take up to ten years to

472
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 18: build and install, so the investment's huge. This concept is

473
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,320
Speaker 18: being able to get one in operation in a relatively

474
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 18: half that time, and then be able to continue to

475
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 18: add to that, so eventually you'll be able to put three,

476
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,480
Speaker 18: four or five, maybe six SMRs in the same footprint

477
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 18: as one or two nuclear actors of the old size.

478
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,600
Speaker 18: The components that we're using can be manufactured in the

479
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:19,560
Speaker 18: United States, transportation costs will be a lot less and

480
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 18: the manufacturing will take a lot less time.

481
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: Around the world, countries are taking very different approaches to

482
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,240
Speaker 1: nuclear energy. Germany has turned away from it altogether, while

483
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:33,400
Speaker 1: France derives the highest proportion of its power from nuclear

484
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: Asian countries are working to catch up. As a group,

485
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: they more than double their nuclear power output over the

486
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,480
Speaker 1: last decade, and China plans to build one hundred and

487
00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:47,720
Speaker 1: fifty reactors by twenty thirty five. Countries that have yet

488
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 1: to enter the nuclear age are also taking notice. Across

489
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: the Atlantic, Ghana is sifting through bids from fifteen different

490
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:58,200
Speaker 1: countries to build its very first nuclear plant. We spoke

491
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: with the country's Deputy Minister of Nuclear Energy, Robert Sagbaji.

492
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: He says, the problem for Ghana is in perception it's capital.

493
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 5: We have the United States, we have China, we have France,

494
00:29:12,640 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 5: we have South Korea, and we have Russia. So we

495
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 5: have five countries that we narrow down from fifteen companies

496
00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 5: when we first introduce our requests for information and by

497
00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,280
Speaker 5: the end of the year, maybe sooner than that, we

498
00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 5: will come up with the vendor. Right now, we are

499
00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 5: under an IMF program, so we can't borrow any money

500
00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 5: on our books, so we need a financing mechanisms such

501
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 5: as crowd funding in terms of industry where we identify

502
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,360
Speaker 5: specific industries that will come in to build a nuclear

503
00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 5: power plant. We need clean energy. You can easily get

504
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 5: money for so light weight, but it can get money

505
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 5: for nuclear which is going to replace it's cool. But

506
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 5: how we move cool from the sustainment is another issue.

507
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 5: So we are collaborating with our vendor countries, but then

508
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,320
Speaker 5: financing is key.

509
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: Investments in nuclear energy are on the rise. Morgan Stanley

510
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: estimates that it will attract one point five trillion dollars

511
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: in capital investment by twenty fifty, and thanks to the

512
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: demand for power for AI, even the notorious three Mile

513
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: Island nuclear facility in Pennsylvania is due to be brought

514
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 1: back online, backed by Microsoft and Constellation Energy.

515
00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 16: The industry has been very concerned about being short electrons

516
00:30:37,680 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 16: to meet the needs or to serve the demand that

517
00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 16: we're seeing coming on by hyperscalers in particular, so companies

518
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:50,080
Speaker 16: like Microsoft as they develop new AI models and place

519
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 16: more demand on the grid. I think as we think

520
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 16: about the generation of electric electricity here in the United States,

521
00:30:58,680 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 16: we've we've spent a lot of time focused on the

522
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 16: development of renewable technologies, but those are not what are

523
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 16: described as dispatchable. They're not available twenty four to seven.

524
00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:12,320
Speaker 16: Perhaps sometimes they are, but sometimes the wind doesn't blow

525
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 16: or the sun doesn't shine, and there's not enough battery

526
00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 16: capacity to keep the lights on or the data centers

527
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 16: running twenty four to seven. And that's what I think

528
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 16: you know is being sent by this deal. The fact

529
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,880
Speaker 16: that a private company went to another private company to

530
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 16: strike a deal may indicate that we are short electrons

531
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:33,560
Speaker 16: and we need to develop more generation capacity here in

532
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:34,400
Speaker 16: the United States.

533
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,520
Speaker 1: The technology has come a long way and the need

534
00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 1: is acute and growing, but concerns remain, particularly about how

535
00:31:42,080 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: to dispose of the depleted uranium that is nuclear waste.

536
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 15: This is a kind of fun little three D printed

537
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 15: model of what a fuel storage facility might look like.

538
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 15: It'll just would come in on some train tracks here

539
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 15: and go all the way into the facility, and then you know,

540
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:04,400
Speaker 15: cranes could move over and pick up the canisters and

541
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:09,320
Speaker 15: repack them into different kind of canisters and then basically

542
00:32:09,360 --> 00:32:11,960
Speaker 15: just put them on a concrete pad for storage.

543
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,200
Speaker 17: So we actually manufacture about thirty some odd canister systems

544
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 17: designed for the storage of spent nuclear fuel, and we

545
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,480
Speaker 17: can storm in perpetuity. Our canister systems are designed roughly

546
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,320
Speaker 17: for a shelf life of one hundred years, easily extendable,

547
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,480
Speaker 17: you know, So we just plan to continue that until

548
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,800
Speaker 17: the United States decides what its long term proposition is.

549
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,600
Speaker 16: They're in certain countries, France in particular, they use what's

550
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 16: called a reprocessing mechanism to take that spent fuel and

551
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 16: use it for other sources. You know, we can look

552
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 16: at it as waste or as garbage or we can

553
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,760
Speaker 16: look at it as an opportunity to solve other challenges

554
00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 16: that we face.

555
00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 1: Are there risks in pursuing a more aggressive nuclear power strategy,

556
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: certainly as there are risks in whatever path we take

557
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: to supply the enormous power needs we're facing around the world.

558
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,360
Speaker 1: The question is not whether there are risks, but what

559
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:07,160
Speaker 1: are the alternatives and are they more risky or less.

560
00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 15: The biggest risk of nuclear is not using it. I

561
00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:16,040
Speaker 15: really am all in for this technology. I don't think

562
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 15: there are any significant issues that should be in our way,

563
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:19,480
Speaker 15: and as.

564
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 1: We're changing our minds, Kelly Trice has seen it happen

565
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: in members of the next generation seeking answers about both

566
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 1: the climate's future and their own.

567
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 17: It's kind of amazing, actually, and I knew that it

568
00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 17: had changed. A few weeks ago. I got a call

569
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,280
Speaker 17: from some high school kids and they wanted to interview

570
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 17: me for a school project because they were considering nuclear

571
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 17: engineering as a field of the future that they wanted

572
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 17: to be in. That told me a lot about how

573
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:45,840
Speaker 17: the population had changed.

574
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:49,880
Speaker 1: It looks like nuclear is coming. The question is not weather,

575
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,160
Speaker 1: but how that does it for us? Here on Wall

576
00:33:54,160 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: Street Week, I'm David Weston Join us again next week

577
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,320
Speaker 1: for more stories of capitalism st