1 00:00:01,760 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: Also media, Welcome to ikidefen here a podcast being recorded 2 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:11,640 Speaker 1: something like nineteen hours into bargaining with managements, thus at 3 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:15,120 Speaker 1: the peak of maximal derangements, and also about an hour 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: after former President Donald John Trump was convicted of thirty 5 00:00:18,760 --> 00:00:22,360 Speaker 1: four felon accounts of falsifying business records for his election. 6 00:00:22,200 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 2: Time payoff of Stormy Daniels. We can only hope that 7 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,080 Speaker 2: this will bring voting race to the long suffering felons 8 00:00:28,080 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 2: of Florida, And realizing that kind of sounds like a joke, 9 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:33,159 Speaker 2: it's actually not. It is in fact, really messed up 10 00:00:33,200 --> 00:00:35,760 Speaker 2: that you can just disenfranchise an entire class of people 11 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 2: and maybe the law hurting someone famous will do something good. Now, 12 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:42,479 Speaker 2: that's all the time we have to talk about Trump 13 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,279 Speaker 2: right now. If you want, if you want to hear 14 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,520 Speaker 2: more about that, you can go to literally everyone who's 15 00:00:47,560 --> 00:00:51,479 Speaker 2: ever done any media related thing. Ever, however, we now 16 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:53,440 Speaker 2: have to talk about the other candidate in the twenty 17 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:56,639 Speaker 2: twenty four election, Joe Biden, which means, this is all 18 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,639 Speaker 2: the fun you're getting for this episode. It is now 19 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 2: time for you to suffer and with me to talk 20 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 2: about suffering, and specifically the suffering of my well, I 21 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:09,040 Speaker 2: was gonna say, my people, like one of my people's 22 00:01:09,160 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: question work, I don't know. Identity is complicated. Sometimes you're 23 00:01:11,800 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 2: more than one thing at a time. Is Karin Green, 24 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,200 Speaker 2: who's part of a Southern transfem collective launching a very 25 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:20,400 Speaker 2: long list of projects that you will be hearing you 26 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: out very shortly. She also used to be a work 27 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,679 Speaker 2: on policy for the Equality Federation and for the Transientered 28 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: Law Center. Yeah, Karinn, welcome to the show. 29 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:31,240 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, happy to be here, and yeah, 30 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 3: I'm excited to get the opportunity to kind of talk 31 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 3: about maybe what is behind some of the press releases 32 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:39,319 Speaker 3: and the HRC list of accomplishments that gets hosted on 33 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,240 Speaker 3: me all the time when I complain about lack of 34 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:43,560 Speaker 3: action on trans policy. 35 00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:46,560 Speaker 2: You know, I really should have looked this up the forehead. 36 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: But I once one of my friends dragged me in 37 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 2: college to a queer movie screening that I went to 38 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:54,640 Speaker 2: because I hadn't eaten all day and they had food, 39 00:01:54,960 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 2: but ended up being this this really great little kind 40 00:01:57,760 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 2: of I think it's like an Indian movie thing that's 41 00:01:59,880 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 2: about this group of queers robbing stealing a blood diamond 42 00:02:03,160 --> 00:02:07,840 Speaker 2: from the from the HRC great movie ten out of ten. 43 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 2: I wish I remember what it was called. 44 00:02:09,639 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 3: In the movement at the time, we all joked that 45 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 3: HRC stood for peculiar ron of Glinton rather than because 46 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:16,240 Speaker 3: of how the tank they were. 47 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 2: So yeah, So, as as the listener may may have guests, 48 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 2: we need to talk about Joe Biden's quite frankly, really 49 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:29,080 Speaker 2: terrible record on trans writes. And to do that, we 50 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:31,080 Speaker 2: need to talk a little bit about where the power 51 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 2: of the president comes from. Because, you know, the sort 52 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,239 Speaker 2: of traditional liberal wonk theories of the president tend to 53 00:02:39,280 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 2: either focus on like this discursive effects of what the 54 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,040 Speaker 2: president says, or like the president's ability to like negotiate 55 00:02:45,040 --> 00:02:48,240 Speaker 2: with Congress to get bills passed. But this largely is 56 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 2: not where the president's power comes from. The president's power 57 00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 2: comes from I guess three things, two of which are 58 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:55,840 Speaker 2: very similar. One is, you know, I mean just literally 59 00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 2: the command of the military, right the president sense since 60 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,240 Speaker 2: Barack Obama, although Bush was doing similar things, has claimed 61 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 2: the legal authority to kill any man, woman, or child 62 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: the moment they leave us or regardless of his citizenship status. 63 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 2: This is, this is the legal foundation of the drone 64 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: program and it is still in place to this day. 65 00:03:12,880 --> 00:03:15,320 Speaker 2: You know, the second one, I'm talking a lot about 66 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,400 Speaker 2: Obama here because Obama weirdly established a lot of these 67 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:20,359 Speaker 2: kind of legal frameworks. But you know, the second one 68 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 2: has to do with their ability to control the nation's 69 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: intelligence services. You know, I mean, one of the things 70 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:30,480 Speaker 2: that Obama did was like personally coordinate the mess like 71 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 2: multi agency crackdown on occupy. And then the third thing, 72 00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 2: and this is where really most of the power is 73 00:03:37,360 --> 00:03:43,120 Speaker 2: is through the unbelievably massive federal bureaucracy. So like I 74 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 2: do kind of get assessed to this and anytime you 75 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,240 Speaker 2: hear the words the Department of that is the thing 76 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:52,120 Speaker 2: the president has the ability to do shit with. That 77 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:55,880 Speaker 2: is that is a very simplified version of it. But yeah, 78 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:58,560 Speaker 2: you know, when you're dealing with an officeho's power is 79 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 2: largely bureaucratic. It means that if you want to figure 80 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: out what they're actually doing, you have to dig really 81 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: deep into the depths of the American bureaucracy. So okay, 82 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: let's let's let's do that. And yeah, first I want 83 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:19,320 Speaker 2: to ask you about PPACA one five five seven, which 84 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:21,600 Speaker 2: is a part of the the Affordable Care Act. Otherwise 85 00:04:22,480 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: is it still better known as Obamacare? Do the kidsacre? 86 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 4: Yeah? 87 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 3: They reclaimed it. I think the lips took it back 88 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 3: I had. 89 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,919 Speaker 2: I've been having this realization that people don't remember Obama 90 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,440 Speaker 2: era stuff. Is why I'm saying. Oh, like I said, 91 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:37,479 Speaker 2: I started saying Ferguson to people and they had no 92 00:04:37,520 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: idea what I was talking about. And I was like, 93 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 2: oh no, we ventored the k we ventured the disaster era. 94 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:45,080 Speaker 2: So yeah, can you can you talk about what that 95 00:04:45,360 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 2: is and what what what it sort of says about 96 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:51,159 Speaker 2: what the Biden administration isn't isn't doing. 97 00:04:51,839 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 4: Yeah? 98 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,839 Speaker 3: Absolutely so, as you mentioned, it's part of the Affordable 99 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 3: Care Act, and so Section fifteen fifty seven is the 100 00:04:59,240 --> 00:05:02,559 Speaker 3: regulatory implementation of the non discrimination. 101 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 4: Parts of the Affordable Care Act. 102 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: Back in the day when we were fighting to prevent 103 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 3: Trump from rolling back some fifteen fifty seven protections, we 104 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,800 Speaker 3: actually are comf people came up with a much sexier 105 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 3: name than Section fifteen fifty seven, but it never took 106 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 3: off with any of the policy people. So I don't 107 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:23,720 Speaker 3: even remember what I'm supposed to be calling it. I 108 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,760 Speaker 3: never hear people say section fifteen fifty seven. What they're 109 00:05:26,760 --> 00:05:31,039 Speaker 3: referencing is basically the non discrimination part of the Affordable 110 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,479 Speaker 3: Care Act. And so the Affordable Care Act, as people 111 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 3: have probably noticed by now, touches practically all of the 112 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 3: US healthcare system and has extended, especially through Medicaid expansion, 113 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 3: federal dollars into healthcare even more than they had been 114 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:52,080 Speaker 3: previously with the supplants for insurance through Medicaid expansion and 115 00:05:52,440 --> 00:05:54,719 Speaker 3: those kinds of things, And so there's actually a lot 116 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,120 Speaker 3: of control that the Department of Health or Health in 117 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 3: Human Services and associated other parts of bureaucracy like Center 118 00:06:04,680 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 3: for Medicaid, Medicare Services, those kinds of things have over implementation. 119 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 3: And so one of the ways of this works is 120 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 3: when legislators write a law, they don't go into all 121 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:17,599 Speaker 3: the details. They just pass a law, right, And so 122 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 3: most times, especially at the federal level, after a law 123 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,240 Speaker 3: has passed, the relevant agencies that are going to be 124 00:06:24,279 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 3: dealing with that part of the law work on and 125 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 3: issue rules or regulations. You might hear them called either thing, 126 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:32,880 Speaker 3: but they mean the same thing, right. So it's basically 127 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 3: the additional agency policies and procedures that they issue through 128 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:40,400 Speaker 3: the formal process governed by the Administrative Procedures Act. Very exciting. 129 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,919 Speaker 3: I know this is going to be like just bombshell episode. 130 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 2: Terrible stuff is coming. Don't worry, you got a whold lot. 131 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,120 Speaker 2: It's going to get really bad. 132 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 3: I'm giving you the foundation to make sure you can 133 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:54,880 Speaker 3: get maximally angry along with me. And so they create 134 00:06:55,080 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 3: the rest of the implementation of the laws at that Congress, right. 135 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,560 Speaker 3: And so in this particular case, for section fifteen to 136 00:07:02,560 --> 00:07:05,279 Speaker 3: fifty seven, it deals specifically with non discrimination, So it 137 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:10,640 Speaker 3: deals with race, sex, gender, sexual orientation, any equality can 138 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,040 Speaker 3: you can you would typically find in federal non discrimination 139 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 3: laws actually in fifteen fifty seven. And so it's obviously 140 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 3: been kind of going back and forth as a political 141 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 3: football between the Obama administration and then the Trump administration, 142 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 3: and then I don't even know if I'm going to 143 00:07:27,560 --> 00:07:30,840 Speaker 3: give Biden credit for treating it as a football. And 144 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 3: so there's this regulatory process that has been going forward 145 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 3: and been rolled back and going forward and been rolled back. 146 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 3: And then simultaneously there are several I don't know the 147 00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 3: current number, but several court cases over fifteen to fifty 148 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:48,960 Speaker 3: seven from various era as like I think there's still 149 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 3: at least one case ongoing from the Obama era fifteen 150 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,120 Speaker 3: fifty seven rag, there's some ongoing from the Trump rag. 151 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,000 Speaker 3: And then obviously folks might have seen in the news 152 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 3: that states like mine Louisiana that have a governor and 153 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 3: attorney general super focused on raising their own profile have 154 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 3: already filed suit against the recently issued Biden era Section 155 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,560 Speaker 3: fifteen fifty seven regulation, And so there is a lot 156 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,560 Speaker 3: of fighting around trans people specifically. 157 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 4: Go figure. 158 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 3: It has been We've been hot right now for the 159 00:08:20,920 --> 00:08:23,239 Speaker 3: last four years or so. It's not been a super 160 00:08:23,280 --> 00:08:27,440 Speaker 3: exciting time, and it has actually impacted, if you know 161 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:30,840 Speaker 3: how to read the policy tea leaves, it has actually 162 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:34,439 Speaker 3: impacted what we have gotten out of the Biden administration 163 00:08:34,480 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 3: in terms of actual trans policy. And I've been doing 164 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 3: trans policy for a very long time, start at the 165 00:08:41,679 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 3: state level in Louisiana. You can't get paid to do 166 00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:49,120 Speaker 3: a queer policy in Louisiana. So I moved out to 167 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 3: Oakland to work for ternsit Or Law Center for a while, 168 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 3: and that was actually where I created the joint Protect 169 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,199 Speaker 3: Trans Health campaign. It was actually the first ever coordinated 170 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 3: collaboration between the National Center for TANSU Quality and Transgeneral 171 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,920 Speaker 3: Law Center, they had never formerly worked together on something before. 172 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 3: But for trans policy folks Section fifty and most of 173 00:09:09,679 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 3: the country, frankly, obviously, healthcare is like the thing right. 174 00:09:13,960 --> 00:09:19,040 Speaker 3: It's always been really terrible in this country, no matter what, 175 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,240 Speaker 3: and so taking care of people's which should be a 176 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:29,760 Speaker 3: right to access healthcare has been really really important. I 177 00:09:30,040 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 3: kind of considered it since twenty seventeen the most important 178 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 3: trans policy issue to work on. And so this is 179 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,280 Speaker 3: definitely kind of to the sense that you are a 180 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 3: nerd like me and you have, you know, headline regulatory 181 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 3: actions that you're looking out for and hoping to influence 182 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:49,120 Speaker 3: and doing things around. This is kind of the premiere 183 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 3: regulatory action in my opinion, in the trans policy space, 184 00:09:53,559 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 3: trying to what it should ideally do is safeguard and 185 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 3: guarantee trans people's access to healthcare, including gender affirming care. 186 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,280 Speaker 3: It does not if you actually read the five hundred 187 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 3: and fifty eight page final Rule, but if you just 188 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 3: read like the press releases and the quotes that the 189 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,080 Speaker 3: head of Human Rights Campaign give, you might have a 190 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 3: different understanding currently, and that's what I'm hoping we can 191 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:20,720 Speaker 3: kind of get into today. 192 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and unfortunately before we get into that, we have 193 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 2: to do one of the other things that is required 194 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:30,439 Speaker 2: of trans people, which is promoting capitalism if you want 195 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 2: to have a job. So here are some ads. God, 196 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 2: we're going to end up with like some kept paid 197 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,080 Speaker 2: ad from Aluisi at our rep or something. 198 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 3: Oh, they don't even need they have a superjara that 199 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:45,280 Speaker 3: they've been flex and muscle on. 200 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:45,920 Speaker 4: They don't need to. 201 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 5: They're fine, And. 202 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,400 Speaker 2: We are back with some cheaing. So yeah, let's talk 203 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 2: about what has been happening and what was actually in 204 00:11:05,520 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: the rules that no one who's not a bureaucrat or 205 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 2: a policy activist has actually read. 206 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:15,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, so I think a little more background will will 207 00:11:15,480 --> 00:11:17,079 Speaker 3: help you get just as angry as I need you 208 00:11:17,120 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 3: to be, which is you know, So the administration is large. 209 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:22,720 Speaker 3: There are a lot of people that work in the 210 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 3: executive branch, and a lot of them have, especially with 211 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:28,840 Speaker 3: this administration, where a lot of folks actually did come 212 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,600 Speaker 3: kind of directly from the Obama administration. They have relationships 213 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,800 Speaker 3: with issue advocacy organizations. So most of the nationals, the 214 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:43,959 Speaker 3: queer national organizations, advoccine nonprofits have relationships with executive branch folks, 215 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:49,080 Speaker 3: and so when an executive branch agency like HHS is 216 00:11:49,160 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 3: working on a regulation that involves queer trans people the 217 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 3: way it worked in the Obama administration, there was actually 218 00:11:56,200 --> 00:12:00,280 Speaker 3: very close collaboration between for example, the National Center Foratureer 219 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:05,000 Speaker 3: Quality and the administration in the writing issuance of the 220 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:09,760 Speaker 3: first Obama era fifteen to fifty seven productive regulation. And 221 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 3: so before the election and then during transition, the Biden 222 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:18,040 Speaker 3: administration was obviously in contact back and forth with all 223 00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:20,240 Speaker 3: kinds of issue of se groups, not just the queer movement, 224 00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 3: but everybody, and they made commitments to the queer movement 225 00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 3: that you know, it would be a fairly smooth transition 226 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 3: to working with them like we had worked with the 227 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:40,120 Speaker 3: Obama administration. If you think back a little while, that 228 00:12:40,320 --> 00:12:44,760 Speaker 3: was before the kind of current fascist humanization campaign had 229 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 3: really kicked off. And so these commitments were made kind 230 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,679 Speaker 3: of in the Overton window from before the last four 231 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 3: years of hell or three years of how however you 232 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:58,720 Speaker 3: want to time it. When they decided to come after 233 00:12:58,800 --> 00:12:59,960 Speaker 3: trans people so hard. 234 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:02,480 Speaker 2: This was back in the kind of housey in days. 235 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,120 Speaker 2: I don't even know if people remember this right now, 236 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: but like it used to be a thing where democratic 237 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,680 Speaker 2: like presidential candidates would attack each other for not being 238 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,640 Speaker 2: radical enough on trans healthcare. That was the thing that 239 00:13:11,679 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 2: happened on the debate stage in like twenty nineteen. It 240 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 2: feels like seven lifetimes ago. 241 00:13:17,280 --> 00:13:17,559 Speaker 6: Now. 242 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, And keep in mind that Biden, you know, every 243 00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:24,080 Speaker 3: six months he tweets that he has our back or whatever, 244 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,280 Speaker 3: and then he's also called us the civil rights issue 245 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:32,479 Speaker 3: of our time. So you know, there are some opportunities 246 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:36,480 Speaker 3: to question that and see if he stacks up. And 247 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,000 Speaker 3: my personal and professional opinion, this is what I do, 248 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:42,280 Speaker 3: is that he absolutely doesn't right. And so one of 249 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,080 Speaker 3: the things that you would really really want out of 250 00:13:45,080 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 3: a section fifteen to fifty seven regulation in a context 251 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:54,360 Speaker 3: where states have been passing trans healthcare bands, is that 252 00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 3: you would want a section fifteen fifty seven regulation that 253 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,680 Speaker 3: deals with preventing transcrimination healthcare. You would want that to 254 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:08,920 Speaker 3: strongly and efficiently preempt state bands against trans care as 255 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 3: violating a federal rule against non discrimination. And because these 256 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 3: things are you have to follow the Administrative Procedures Act 257 00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 3: when you're issuing regulations as a federal agency, and most 258 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:23,400 Speaker 3: states actually have the same a similar kind of process, 259 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,120 Speaker 3: and so you kind of have to The agencies have 260 00:14:26,200 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 3: to show how they got to the final rule. So 261 00:14:29,240 --> 00:14:33,760 Speaker 3: they issue a draft rule, invite comment. There's a comment 262 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,720 Speaker 3: period that you might have seen organizations asking you to 263 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 3: submit comments for before, and then they're actually required to 264 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 3: read and respond to all those comments. And so if 265 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,000 Speaker 3: you actually pull up the fifteen fifty seven final rule, 266 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 3: it's actually one of it sounds like even wonkier than 267 00:14:51,640 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 3: for example, looking at a bill, But because of the 268 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 3: Administrative Procedures Act in the way they have to respond 269 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,600 Speaker 3: to comments, there's actually a lot more kind of conversational 270 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 3: pro are not conversational, but you know, regular ask pros 271 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,640 Speaker 3: and not terrifying legal language in this stuff. That is 272 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 3: them directly addressing comments people organizations have made and explaining 273 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 3: their reason. And so one of the things that I 274 00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 3: think is most kind of emblematic of how we've been 275 00:15:19,320 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 3: failed and thrown under the bus is because of this 276 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 3: process where they have to kind of show you how 277 00:15:23,680 --> 00:15:26,800 Speaker 3: the sausage is made. You can look up in this 278 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 3: regulation and see that for some initial conduct, we were 279 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 3: promised this would come out year one, and then we 280 00:15:33,880 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 3: were promised it would come out year two and then 281 00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,760 Speaker 3: year three, and then I have actually heard that they 282 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 3: were trying to push it past the election, and we 283 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 3: kind of forced their hand on it. So you can 284 00:15:45,080 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 3: tell that they initially wrote the first draft in this 285 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,760 Speaker 3: regulation to kill healthcare bands, to federally preempt healthcare bands. 286 00:15:54,280 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 3: There's actually I did a Twitter thread on this about 287 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 3: how one sentence that was that existed in the draft 288 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:04,520 Speaker 3: version of the fifteen to fifty seven role that one 289 00:16:04,560 --> 00:16:07,640 Speaker 3: sentence alone could take down. I think the one I 290 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 3: used for an example was Arkansas's trans healthcare band or 291 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,320 Speaker 3: Missouri's actually potentially, because what that sentence did is it 292 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 3: laid out very very clearly that a determination that trans 293 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 3: healthcare is never helpful or useful and can never be 294 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:33,200 Speaker 3: provided does not meet the bar for considered medical reasoning, right, 295 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 3: and so states just can't do it. And that's fantastic 296 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,080 Speaker 3: because that is functionally what these healthcare bands do, right, 297 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 3: and many of them, I think the one I used 298 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:45,920 Speaker 3: as an example even actually have include in the non 299 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 3: effective text kind of the whereas preamble section of their bands. 300 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 3: They can't help themselves. They go into all this flowery 301 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 3: language about how trans care is never good and it's 302 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:58,040 Speaker 3: always harmful in all this stuff right in garbage. And 303 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:02,600 Speaker 3: this sentence spoke directly to those trans healthcare bands, and 304 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,520 Speaker 3: it made a firm commitment to address them as a 305 00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 3: whole as they were happening right at the federal government 306 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:16,359 Speaker 3: to state level. And if you read the final rule, 307 00:17:16,760 --> 00:17:20,439 Speaker 3: you will get to see them strike that sentence out 308 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:25,800 Speaker 3: and read their reasoning for striking that out. And so 309 00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 3: you actually had this language that was very clear and 310 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 3: very strong, written very relatively early on in his term, 311 00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 3: when at the time there were only a handful of 312 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 3: trans healthcare bands that had passed, right, and so it 313 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 3: didn't And so now I'm just offering conjectures and form conjecture, 314 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:46,920 Speaker 3: conjecture informed by reading. 315 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 4: Policy te leaves. 316 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,960 Speaker 3: But it is my suspicion that at that time, because 317 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,160 Speaker 3: there weren't that many trans healthcare bands to preempt, they 318 00:17:56,240 --> 00:18:00,639 Speaker 3: were more than willing to maintain, you know, to fulfill 319 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 3: their commitment to us and to issue the kind of 320 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,120 Speaker 3: regulation that we had talked about. But as time went 321 00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 3: on and the fascist humanization campaign started and ramped up, 322 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:15,120 Speaker 3: and healthcare bands rapidly spread throughout the country. I've been 323 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,680 Speaker 3: doing this for a decade and I've never seen anything 324 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 3: like this in any area of policy before, all of 325 00:18:21,520 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 3: a sudden, if you're holding a card that nuke's health 326 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 3: state healthcare bans, when you wrote it, that card was 327 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 3: only going to nuke a few two or three trans 328 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:35,199 Speaker 3: healthcare bands, right, And if you're the federal government, you 329 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,680 Speaker 3: know you can expect to steamrolls and just a handful 330 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 3: of states like that. But then later on, at this point, 331 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 3: I forget the exact number, but it's something like twenty 332 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,679 Speaker 3: twenty to twenty three states have healthcare bans implemented. 333 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,760 Speaker 4: And now if. 334 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:54,680 Speaker 3: You're holding a card that nuke's healthcare bands, you don't 335 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,439 Speaker 3: really get to pick and choose which healthcare bands you're 336 00:18:57,480 --> 00:18:59,960 Speaker 3: going to. Now you're going to you have to commit. 337 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:01,879 Speaker 3: It's a new goal of them if you play that card. 338 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,639 Speaker 3: And that just was not something that they seemed willing 339 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:08,719 Speaker 3: to do when it was going to make the waves 340 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 3: that it would make with twenty to twenty three or 341 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:14,920 Speaker 3: whatever states being pretting empted and required to make sure 342 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:15,680 Speaker 3: that trans people have. 343 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 4: Health care access. 344 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,000 Speaker 3: And keep in mind that during this period, not just 345 00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,560 Speaker 3: did more states past these healthcare bands, but the kind 346 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 3: of national discussion and focus on trans people deteriorated horrifically, right, 347 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 3: And so not only were the stakes higher in terms 348 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:36,959 Speaker 3: of the kind of policy confidence in projecting your politics, 349 00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:43,480 Speaker 3: but also there was just I assume those lanyards run 350 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:47,600 Speaker 3: horrible polls all the time, right, and saw that we 351 00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,480 Speaker 3: were losing points in terms of how the public views 352 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 3: transpeople because there's a lot of money being poured into this, 353 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:59,000 Speaker 3: and just made the horrible unethical and moral calculations that 354 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:03,439 Speaker 3: Democrats make, decided that trans people weren't worth it. And 355 00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 3: so you can see them cross that strike that part 356 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:08,879 Speaker 3: out of the final fifteen to fifty seven rule, and 357 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:13,240 Speaker 3: it no longer contains any language even approaching that that 358 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:18,000 Speaker 3: is written to address states as a whole, and it 359 00:20:18,040 --> 00:20:20,639 Speaker 3: is mostly what is in there at this point is 360 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,280 Speaker 3: the same thing that they've been telling us to do 361 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 3: for the last over a decade, which is individual trans 362 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,919 Speaker 3: people who just happen to encounter discrimination and healthcare you 363 00:20:30,080 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 3: to submit an OCR complaint, an HHSOCR complaint. OCR stands 364 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,119 Speaker 3: for Office Civil Rights, So you would think an Office 365 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 3: of Civil Rights could maybe be proactive. And notice that 366 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:44,159 Speaker 3: a state that has banned trans healthcare and some places 367 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 3: even criminalized it might be ready for some enforcement, some 368 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,639 Speaker 3: broad enforcement. And yet they have maintained in this final 369 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,399 Speaker 3: rule that they expect individual trans people to file individual 370 00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,720 Speaker 3: OCR complaints every time and that they will address each 371 00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 3: one on a case by case basis. They reiterate this 372 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,719 Speaker 3: at least a dozen times. It is one of the 373 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,840 Speaker 3: most offensive parts of all this, right because that's the 374 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 3: only thing that aj just has ever told us about this, Yeah. 375 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:17,320 Speaker 2: Which is just nuts, Like that's not an actual systemic 376 00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 2: way of addressing this. Can you imagine if they had 377 00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 2: done this with like literally any other kind of civil 378 00:21:24,520 --> 00:21:27,280 Speaker 2: rights issue, like you know, okay, we get we get 379 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:29,240 Speaker 2: we get a state banned on gay marriage, and the 380 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:32,440 Speaker 2: Department is like, yeah, you have to submit a complaint 381 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,800 Speaker 2: to us individually. Like that's absolutely nuts, or are you or. 382 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,680 Speaker 3: Of like states were banned insulin or something, you know, right, 383 00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:45,520 Speaker 3: like any other facet of healthcare, Just nobody would take that. Yeah, 384 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,119 Speaker 3: everyone to expect, Yes, the federal government will come in 385 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,720 Speaker 3: to make sure that people in Louisiana can still access insulin. 386 00:21:52,280 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, and in staid, you have this just you know, 387 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:59,159 Speaker 2: I mean a complete abrogation of any like not just 388 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 2: any responsibility, but I mean any attempt to actually not 389 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,080 Speaker 2: even like any attempt to do anything to stop any 390 00:22:06,200 --> 00:22:09,320 Speaker 2: of these bands that are going to kill a like 391 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:11,760 Speaker 2: not insignificant number of people like me. 392 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:16,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, And one of the things I'd like to quins 393 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,640 Speaker 3: is one of the benefits of you know, the photogram 394 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 3: having to follow the Administrative Procedures Act is they have 395 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,040 Speaker 3: to talk about the previous rules in this space, and 396 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:27,320 Speaker 3: so you also get really, I was gonna say funny, 397 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:32,040 Speaker 3: but they're not funny. They're they're deeply depressing paragraphs about 398 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:36,400 Speaker 3: how their final rule is worse than Obama's final rule. 399 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 3: Right they have and they have to explain it. And 400 00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:40,720 Speaker 3: one of one of the things that I'll reference here 401 00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 3: is that Obama's final rule, I believe, involved directing the 402 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:48,680 Speaker 3: Office of All Rights to conduct a disparate impact analysis 403 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:52,000 Speaker 3: on you know, marginalized populations to determine if there were 404 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 3: discriminatory outcomes in healthcare access kind of even as a 405 00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 3: closed system, so they can look in from the outside 406 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 3: and be like, oh, okay, all the transmubl in the 407 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:06,399 Speaker 3: state can't access X, Y and z, so whether that 408 00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,199 Speaker 3: whether there is a discriminatory you know, law or not 409 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,800 Speaker 3: there is a disparate impact on this population, and that 410 00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 3: means we need to take enforcement action. And you get 411 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:18,880 Speaker 3: to read the Biden HHS right about how they're not 412 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:19,720 Speaker 3: going to do that. 413 00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,679 Speaker 2: Actually, no, no, don't, please please do please do not 414 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 2: do any analysis to see how trans people are being oppressed. 415 00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:32,600 Speaker 2: This would look really bad for us. Yeah, speaking speaking 416 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,560 Speaker 2: of looking bad for us, you know, you know what 417 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 2: won't look bad. It's if you buy these products and 418 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 2: services from this ad that hopefully isn't I don't know. 419 00:23:42,200 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 2: I feel I feel like we're kind of running. We've 420 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 2: run through the cycle of the terrible ads, so I 421 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,600 Speaker 2: feel like we're about we're on the precipice of there 422 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 2: being another bunch of ads they put on the show 423 00:23:51,640 --> 00:23:54,879 Speaker 2: without telling us that we can complain about. But for 424 00:23:54,960 --> 00:24:10,720 Speaker 2: now these ones and we are back. Yeah. And I 425 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 2: think this is something that I don't know. I think 426 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,400 Speaker 2: most people do not know this. I don't I think 427 00:24:16,400 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 2: most people do not understand that not only use a 428 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,800 Speaker 2: Biden administration not being proactive, it's like they're actively rolling 429 00:24:22,920 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 2: back protections, and they're actively rolling back things that the 430 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:29,199 Speaker 2: agency used to do under Obama, which was you know, 431 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 2: in most other respects. I don't know. Again, I don't 432 00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,399 Speaker 2: really like, can I expect the people who listened to 433 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,240 Speaker 2: the show to remember the Obama administration? Now, I don't know. 434 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 3: I mean, I was one of the people who came 435 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 3: of aged off my parents' healthcare plan kind of exactly 436 00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:51,479 Speaker 3: right before kind of primary PPACA productions kicked in, right, 437 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 3: and so I had a several month period where they 438 00:24:54,600 --> 00:25:00,000 Speaker 3: could still deny you health insurance using homeward being trained 439 00:25:00,200 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 3: as a pre existing condition, as they don't God, and 440 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 3: so that that actually did happen to me. I applied 441 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,400 Speaker 3: for health insurance and they sent me a letter that said, 442 00:25:09,640 --> 00:25:11,800 Speaker 3: you have your trends, that's a pre existing condition. We're 443 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 3: not going to health and so I so I actually 444 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,520 Speaker 3: did several months later, you know, those protections kicked in, 445 00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 3: and the Obama administration actually did do some kind of 446 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:22,960 Speaker 3: proactive work to make sure that those were spread around 447 00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:23,359 Speaker 3: the country. 448 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 4: Like it's not nowhere never has been as guys, good 449 00:25:27,080 --> 00:25:27,959 Speaker 4: and throw as it should be. 450 00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,320 Speaker 3: But it worked for me here because then when I 451 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,840 Speaker 3: implied again, I was not denied for being tranced. 452 00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:35,440 Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, I think that's the kind of 453 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 2: general thing I want to say about that too, is like, 454 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,720 Speaker 2: you know, there were things where like on these kinds 455 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,560 Speaker 2: of issues where the obomdministration was a lot better broadly 456 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:46,399 Speaker 2: if you look at the rest of their policy, it 457 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 2: was like significantly further right in the Biden administration like Obama. 458 00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:54,520 Speaker 2: Obama tried to tried to like put up grand bargain 459 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 2: together to destroy Medicaid, Medicare, social Security, like he tried 460 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:02,720 Speaker 2: to do that. He was stopped by the Republicans. Right, 461 00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:05,400 Speaker 2: It was like, I need to give people a sense 462 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 2: of like how far right Obama was even compared to Biden, 463 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 2: and yet the REGs are getting worse, which. 464 00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 3: Is on our issues, he was fairly fairly good, right, Yeah, 465 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 3: And one thing that I think contributes to people not 466 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:24,040 Speaker 3: you know, I can't blame folks for not understanding this 467 00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:27,160 Speaker 3: is happening because the queer advocacy orgs are not talking 468 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,760 Speaker 3: about things this way, right, And I think possibly one 469 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:34,000 Speaker 3: of the most illustrative things I can point out is 470 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,280 Speaker 3: when the first title nine in pr M drops. So 471 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 3: in PRM stands for Notice of Proposed Rulemaking. So if 472 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,440 Speaker 3: I drop that again, it's a screw up on my part. 473 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:44,560 Speaker 3: I don't mean to use the dragon. But so that's 474 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,800 Speaker 3: why when they issue their first draft of a regulation 475 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 3: and invite comment in a comment period follows. 476 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:52,480 Speaker 4: Right, So the the. 477 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:58,080 Speaker 3: Title nine in PRM that they release around trans students' 478 00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:02,840 Speaker 3: access to sports programs and education. If you read it 479 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 3: the language of the actual draft policy, not the press 480 00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 3: releases people put out about it, it is functionally states 481 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:11,479 Speaker 3: rights for athlete fans. 482 00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 7: Right. 483 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,360 Speaker 3: It gives the states' rights to come up with a 484 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:20,040 Speaker 3: justification that involves fairness and safety, and then they will 485 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,520 Speaker 3: have deference to pursue or whatever, which is not just 486 00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:27,640 Speaker 3: that some of the ways they've done fifty fifty seven 487 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 3: as well. 488 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and like to make it, make it explicitly clear. 489 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:33,360 Speaker 2: What they're saying is that if you, as a stake 490 00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:34,719 Speaker 2: can come up with a good enough reason, you were 491 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,480 Speaker 2: allowed to discriminate against trans people and prevent them exactly 492 00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:43,200 Speaker 2: doing sports, which is like, again, it is a vert 493 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 2: discrimination based on gender, which you should not be able 494 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 2: to do legally. However, the absolute cowardly shits at the 495 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,359 Speaker 2: Biden administration, We're like, no, you could actually do this, 496 00:27:55,520 --> 00:28:00,000 Speaker 2: go ahead to have fun fascist humanization marks. 497 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 3: And so if you remember back to that time, all 498 00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,200 Speaker 3: of the the national queer organizations put out these glowing 499 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,280 Speaker 3: press release. So I'm on the policy side, right, I'm 500 00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 3: not on the comp side. I readanalyzed the policy, I 501 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 3: tell them what it means, and then it's most it's 502 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,640 Speaker 3: unfortunately out of my hands at that point, right, and 503 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:20,399 Speaker 3: the national queer organizations have been messaging basically all of 504 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,680 Speaker 3: these things as great wins moving things forward. 505 00:28:23,760 --> 00:28:25,440 Speaker 4: Biden truly the first. 506 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,159 Speaker 3: Trans president, We love him, stuff like that, right, And 507 00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,360 Speaker 3: so they did that for that title nine in PRM. 508 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:32,000 Speaker 4: And then. 509 00:28:33,720 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 3: Several days later, Representative Zoe Zephyr, a trans represented state 510 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 3: representative from Montana, organized the out trans state trans and 511 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,160 Speaker 3: non binary state legislators from around the country to release 512 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 3: an open letter which you know, condemned the title nine 513 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,560 Speaker 3: n PRM for being dog shit. And so that's that's 514 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,160 Speaker 3: I think maybe the one and only kind of crack 515 00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 3: in the in the facade that has gotten through over 516 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 3: the past couple of years is when you know, this 517 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,040 Speaker 3: thing came out after the policy people said this is 518 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 3: how did this happen? 519 00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 4: What the hell? 520 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:12,920 Speaker 3: And then the comms came out and they were great, glowing, 521 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:17,239 Speaker 3: you know, he love trans people, and then you know 522 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,120 Speaker 3: the state trans elected is actually said no, this this 523 00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:23,640 Speaker 3: fucking socks actually, right, Yeah, but that has not really 524 00:29:23,680 --> 00:29:27,200 Speaker 3: happened for anything else because they're you know, most of 525 00:29:27,240 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 3: the people who do what I do, they're you know, 526 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 3: specialized in each and there aren't many jobs for it. 527 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,400 Speaker 3: And you could, I could speak at length about how 528 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,000 Speaker 3: you don't get to speak your mind if you want 529 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,400 Speaker 3: to continue to stay with kind of movement employment in 530 00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 3: this sector. And so in terms of publicly being able 531 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 3: to speak about how we're being thrown under the bus currently, 532 00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,840 Speaker 3: there are not many folks with the expertise who are 533 00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,040 Speaker 3: free to do that. 534 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:56,080 Speaker 7: Yeah. 535 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,920 Speaker 2: I mean I remember, like I'm not a policy person, 536 00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,600 Speaker 2: right like I have I have you know, part I, 537 00:29:59,760 --> 00:30:02,840 Speaker 2: part this is an analytical thing, right Like I bailed 538 00:30:02,840 --> 00:30:04,320 Speaker 2: out of going to law school because I had to 539 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,720 Speaker 2: read that. I had to read the Clean Air Act, 540 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 2: and I was like, I will literally die if I 541 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 2: have to do this for a living. But you know, 542 00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:14,840 Speaker 2: I remember when when the sort of Title nine stuff 543 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 2: came out, and when I remember trying to talk about it, 544 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 2: I remember like the pushback that I got for being like, wait, 545 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 2: this sucks. It was enormous. It was this like incredible 546 00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 2: sort of broad front PR campaign from just so many 547 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 2: different and not even just you know, it had filtered 548 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:33,320 Speaker 2: down to the point where like it wasn't just like 549 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:36,240 Speaker 2: these rigs. It was like just like like the random 550 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,719 Speaker 2: people on Twitter who's supposed to follow policy stuff were 551 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 2: falling in line. It was like everyone was coming in 552 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,080 Speaker 2: and it was just this like absolutely terrifying, like kind 553 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 2: of closing. 554 00:30:45,680 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 4: Those don't actually read policy. That's the thing. Policy reporters 555 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:50,360 Speaker 4: don't write. 556 00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:56,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, so many such cases, and. 557 00:30:56,200 --> 00:31:00,600 Speaker 3: So most people who report on policy or or kind 558 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,960 Speaker 3: of our follow policy do tend to kind of stick 559 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:08,680 Speaker 3: in the realm of those press releases and initial initial 560 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 3: articles based on press releases. And so if there is 561 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,000 Speaker 3: not kind of sincerity and truthfulness on the part of 562 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:21,320 Speaker 3: the orgs that are the trusted, you know, speakers in 563 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,320 Speaker 3: this space, then this stuff gets successfully laundered. And I 564 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:31,480 Speaker 3: think it's intentional. I think that it, on one hand, 565 00:31:31,640 --> 00:31:36,040 Speaker 3: is an intentional move to prevent and stemy actual grassroots 566 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 3: organizing around sincere and real and pressing trans needs. Because 567 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:42,960 Speaker 3: if you're trying to get a lot of people fired 568 00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 3: up about trans healthcare is like on fire, and half 569 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,840 Speaker 3: the like half the trans kids in the country don't 570 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,320 Speaker 3: have we have to like, this is act up shit time. 571 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 4: Right. 572 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,880 Speaker 3: But if everybody that you know is on your email list, 573 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 3: if most of them have seen HRC and NCT and 574 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:03,400 Speaker 3: all these places put out these glowing press releases, people 575 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 3: are like, you're crazy. If things are fine, Jo's moving 576 00:32:06,320 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 3: things forward, We're good. And then also I think they 577 00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 3: have kind of backed themselves into a corner in terms 578 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,480 Speaker 3: of how a lot of Libs have had backed themselves 579 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:17,600 Speaker 3: into a corner at this point. Right, they know that 580 00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:21,280 Speaker 3: Trump is worse on policy, even if Biden has done 581 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:26,080 Speaker 3: barely anything, Trump is obviously worse for trans people. And 582 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:33,200 Speaker 3: so they're allowing electoral weirdness to control actual kind of 583 00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:38,800 Speaker 3: policy comms in a way that I find really really frustrating, 584 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:42,160 Speaker 3: and I think is not doing trans people, especially in 585 00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:44,040 Speaker 3: the South. It's not treating them with the respect that 586 00:32:44,680 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 3: they deserve from the organizations that claim to represent them. 587 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is a thing that Okay, this is 588 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,280 Speaker 2: going to sound like a weird sidebar, but I promise 589 00:32:55,360 --> 00:32:57,640 Speaker 2: if you follow this train of logical deay, this is 590 00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,760 Speaker 2: something you actually this is a debate. You get a 591 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 2: lot more clearly in Latin American social movements, where because 592 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,240 Speaker 2: because their social movements are significantly stronger from the social 593 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:09,600 Speaker 2: movements in the US, right, they are their own sort 594 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,280 Speaker 2: of coherent like political basis. 595 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,040 Speaker 4: You get this question a labor movement. 596 00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:17,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well, I mean, like you know that this 597 00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,080 Speaker 2: is the thing about the labor movement. Like you know, 598 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,479 Speaker 2: if if you look at for example, Bolivia, which has 599 00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 2: very very strong social movements or like has traditionally had 600 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 2: very strong labor movements and a lot of social movements 601 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,240 Speaker 2: in the last twenty thirty years, right, I mean, like 602 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:31,120 Speaker 2: their labor movement throws dynamite at bosses, right, like you know, 603 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,320 Speaker 2: so like they have they have a very strong movement. 604 00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 2: And but one of the questions of these movements, and 605 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,960 Speaker 2: this is something that has just torn apart the m 606 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 2: as they're they're sort of like supposedly movement political party, 607 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 2: is this question of to what extent should you should 608 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:49,480 Speaker 2: you integrate your social movement with the state. And you know, 609 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 2: and then this is a long this is a long 610 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:54,280 Speaker 2: running debate in budg of social movements. Various movements have 611 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:58,000 Speaker 2: picked different directions. Some of them have become very unfolded 612 00:33:58,000 --> 00:33:59,520 Speaker 2: in the States, some of them have resisted it. And 613 00:33:59,560 --> 00:34:02,720 Speaker 2: there are you know there there are benefits and problems 614 00:34:02,720 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 2: with both. But one of the big issues with trying 615 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,600 Speaker 2: to sort of incorporate yourself into the state is that 616 00:34:09,360 --> 00:34:12,319 Speaker 2: the state isn't just a kind of neutral body. It 617 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,359 Speaker 2: will you know, it's it's not just that you're working 618 00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:15,840 Speaker 2: with the state. The state is also working with you, 619 00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:18,240 Speaker 2: and it will attempt to and in its political parties, 620 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,399 Speaker 2: will attempt to seize control of your organization and turn 621 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:24,920 Speaker 2: your organization into just a sort of into you know, 622 00:34:24,920 --> 00:34:27,239 Speaker 2: into basically a pr outlet for whatever thing it's doing. 623 00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 2: And this becomes a real problem when you're you know, 624 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:34,320 Speaker 2: your your party is trying to screw you. Yeah, I 625 00:34:34,320 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 2: mean this came to ahead in twenty twelve where there 626 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,839 Speaker 2: was a huge fight in Bolivia over a plan by 627 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,000 Speaker 2: the MS to build a highway through a bunch of 628 00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,640 Speaker 2: indigenous land. And this this basically split the base of 629 00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:48,120 Speaker 2: the party right because the MAS had been sort of 630 00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:50,920 Speaker 2: an indigenous socialist movement, and it got split between the 631 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 2: people who supported building this growth of the people who didn't. 632 00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:57,040 Speaker 2: And so like even Morales has riot police stormed the 633 00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,520 Speaker 2: offices of one of the of one of the indigenous federations, 634 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 2: and like replaces them, like replaces their leadership with guys 635 00:35:03,640 --> 00:35:06,120 Speaker 2: who are loyal to him, who will push this thing through, right. 636 00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:07,879 Speaker 2: And you know, I mean the reason I'm talking about 637 00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:09,320 Speaker 2: this is the kind of social movement stuff I studied 638 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:11,600 Speaker 2: in college, right, And it's like, and now in the US, 639 00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:13,160 Speaker 2: we are like kind of starting to get to the 640 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 2: point where we have real social moments, right, and we've 641 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,640 Speaker 2: seen sort of like blm, you know, we we sort 642 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:20,960 Speaker 2: of have something that is a curve movement and we're 643 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:24,600 Speaker 2: running into exactly the same thing where yeah, like if 644 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:25,680 Speaker 2: you you know, this is the thing you can talk 645 00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,319 Speaker 2: about moretifically in the US. But it's like, yeah, like 646 00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 2: these orgs are on are are in the middle of 647 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,719 Speaker 2: this sort of state capture process, right, And this has 648 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:39,839 Speaker 2: having really really dogshit effects on queer people because when 649 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 2: when these organizations are you know, become becomes sort of 650 00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 2: media arms or becomes sort of political arms of these 651 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:49,880 Speaker 2: party apparatuses, they're not representing you, They're representing the party. 652 00:35:51,320 --> 00:35:53,920 Speaker 3: And I think that one one of the easiest places 653 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:55,480 Speaker 3: to kind of see the dynamic that you and I 654 00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 3: are talking about in current US politics is in the 655 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:02,560 Speaker 3: discourse around palace and any liberation. Right, Yeah, if you 656 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:07,560 Speaker 3: try to talk with anybody about palastinity liberation, you get 657 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,080 Speaker 3: beset upon on all sides by people saying, well, do 658 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:11,839 Speaker 3: you want Trump to win? You think Trump's can be better? 659 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:18,200 Speaker 3: This like electoral project takes precedence over you know, politics 660 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:22,400 Speaker 3: guided by core values so quickly and so overwhelmingly. 661 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:25,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean, and it's it's accelerated to a point. 662 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,600 Speaker 2: I mean, this is something I remember in during the 663 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,919 Speaker 2: Trump years, we would we would joke about this about 664 00:36:30,960 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 2: sort of the spinelessness of liberalism. Like it used to 665 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 2: be a joke that like if the Democratic president did 666 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:37,880 Speaker 2: a genocide, people would go, oh, well, you still have 667 00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:39,600 Speaker 2: to support them because the other guy's Trump. And now 668 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:40,720 Speaker 2: it's literally happening. 669 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:42,359 Speaker 4: Yeah, you know. 670 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,400 Speaker 3: I mean, well, so I actually started working at Nationals. 671 00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,120 Speaker 3: I took the drop at Transfer Law Center right after 672 00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:54,920 Speaker 3: Trump took office, and so my, you know, it was 673 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:58,799 Speaker 3: very easy for me to especially as someone who you know, 674 00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 3: had never worked at large avaccine nonprofits before, because go figure, 675 00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:04,680 Speaker 3: there's no money in doing transwork in the South that 676 00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:08,360 Speaker 3: was scrappy and under resource as fuck. I got to 677 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:11,799 Speaker 3: delude myself, I think, because you know, Trump is such 678 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:18,400 Speaker 3: a uniquely dangerous force that a lot of people alongside 679 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 3: me and the movement were had the same shared the 680 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,400 Speaker 3: values with me, because I could see them being equally 681 00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,719 Speaker 3: strident and vocal on kind of all the bad things 682 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:29,880 Speaker 3: that were happening. And then you know, it's almost it's 683 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:32,320 Speaker 3: a tire joke at this point, but you know, Biden 684 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,080 Speaker 3: took over and the kids were still in cages, and 685 00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 3: everybody else shut up, and I looked around and I'm like, wait, I'm. 686 00:37:36,840 --> 00:37:39,200 Speaker 4: Still I still okay, Yeah, the hell where'd y'all go? 687 00:37:39,760 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 2: Like I want to yell about that for a second, 688 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:44,640 Speaker 2: because like so I kind of like this, this was 689 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:46,120 Speaker 2: like my sort of well, I mean, I guess my 690 00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 2: technical origin story. There's a slight longer thing this, but 691 00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:51,759 Speaker 2: like my me being a person that any would listen 692 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:53,919 Speaker 2: to was a product of being involved in Occupy Ice 693 00:37:53,960 --> 00:37:56,320 Speaker 2: and like, you know, going out and finding like you know, 694 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,319 Speaker 2: I mean, the sort of horror of that, like you 695 00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 2: can fucking hear people yelling from the inside of these 696 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 2: buildings that they're being fucking held in and now you know, 697 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:08,880 Speaker 2: Biden like, well, we'll do a longer thing about this 698 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 2: at some point, But like Biden. Is you know that 699 00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,400 Speaker 2: that fucking bill that they were trying to pass, like 700 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,960 Speaker 2: absolutely unbelievably fascist one saying that the president has the 701 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,120 Speaker 2: right to close the border. She's trying to just fucking 702 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:19,080 Speaker 2: do it anyways. 703 00:38:19,880 --> 00:38:22,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, And and they're still doing cons hits about it 704 00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:24,319 Speaker 3: making them they think it makes them look good. 705 00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,640 Speaker 2: No, it's it's like it's they're they're they're doing just 706 00:38:27,760 --> 00:38:30,839 Speaker 2: pure evil. Like again, like literally, without like James and 707 00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:33,000 Speaker 2: his friends, there would be pile like there still are 708 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:35,760 Speaker 2: corpses floating up in the fucking rivers on the border, 709 00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:37,880 Speaker 2: but there would be fucking like there would be stacked 710 00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:41,400 Speaker 2: like mounds of corpses of people who fucking starved or died. 711 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,080 Speaker 2: Like if literally James and his friends weren't down there 712 00:38:45,080 --> 00:38:46,840 Speaker 2: on the border right now, that and and you know, 713 00:38:46,920 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 2: and yeah, like it's it's the thing you're talking about. 714 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,320 Speaker 2: It's like I remember all these people in the streets 715 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:52,960 Speaker 2: for this. I was like I was there, I was 716 00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 2: fucking helping to organize this stuff, and then like you 717 00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:58,800 Speaker 2: watch them walk away. 718 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:01,240 Speaker 4: Yeah, it's terrible. 719 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,279 Speaker 3: And I want to make clearer that you know, you're 720 00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,160 Speaker 3: talking about kind of the pressure that a party in 721 00:39:07,239 --> 00:39:11,080 Speaker 3: power can can apply and the way in which these 722 00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:15,040 Speaker 3: organizations can be captured, especially just due to how nonprofit 723 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,520 Speaker 3: funding is a whole clusterfuck and how it works. 724 00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:18,279 Speaker 5: Here in the US. 725 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:25,000 Speaker 3: But I so, I actually a White House staffer called 726 00:39:25,560 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 3: my executive director within an hour of my boss forwarding 727 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 3: the White House an analysis of mine that I'd written 728 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 3: for a state without reading it herself at all. And 729 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:40,200 Speaker 3: in this analysis I included a dismal assessment of the 730 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,799 Speaker 3: likelihood that the federal government would use its power to 731 00:39:43,840 --> 00:39:46,600 Speaker 3: prevent implementation that solve this was this was a healthcare band, 732 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 3: that a novel healthcare band that the state wanted to 733 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,600 Speaker 3: quick turn around one. And so my boss direct boss 734 00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,239 Speaker 3: forwarded it to the White House, who had asked for 735 00:39:53,400 --> 00:39:57,200 Speaker 3: analysis on it without reading it at all. And within 736 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,839 Speaker 3: an hour of my boss forwarding it to the White 737 00:39:59,840 --> 00:40:03,520 Speaker 3: House House, the White House had called our executive director 738 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 3: to complain about me, and I got written up for it. 739 00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:11,360 Speaker 3: That is the fastest turnaround on anything trans that anybody 740 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 3: has gotten out of this White House. And it was 741 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 3: it was getting me me disciplined for in a in 742 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,399 Speaker 3: an analysis that was not for them not being super 743 00:40:20,440 --> 00:40:22,480 Speaker 3: impressed with their with their trans policy. And I and 744 00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:24,520 Speaker 3: I have heard, I have you know, a lot of 745 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:30,080 Speaker 3: colleagues in the movement, folks I trust completely on trans policy. 746 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,239 Speaker 3: And I know for a fact that I am not 747 00:40:34,440 --> 00:40:37,720 Speaker 3: the only person that has had a situation like that occur. 748 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 3: And so there they are applying pressure and even in 749 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:46,520 Speaker 3: the most direct ways to you know, the advocacy organizations. 750 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:48,680 Speaker 4: So it is happening. 751 00:40:50,719 --> 00:40:52,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think the thing I wanted to close 752 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:55,480 Speaker 2: up was talking about a bit about like the consequences 753 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,840 Speaker 2: of this, because what happens when this this is you know, 754 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,680 Speaker 2: this is part of going back to me talking about Bolivia, 755 00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:03,920 Speaker 2: like this is part of how even Moralees got overthrown 756 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 2: in the coup, was that because the social movements, like 757 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:08,439 Speaker 2: most of the like a lot of these social movements 758 00:41:08,480 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 2: have been sort of weakened to the point where they 759 00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 2: know they no longer had you know, that they'd become 760 00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:15,960 Speaker 2: policy organs at the state and not actual like fighting 761 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:19,840 Speaker 2: movements that could like effectively resist, you know, that that 762 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,560 Speaker 2: could do a thing like for example, like you know, 763 00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 2: if you look at the the the the original coup 764 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,000 Speaker 2: against Hugo Chavez, right, like, the social movements were so 765 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,359 Speaker 2: strong that even though the army literally did a coup, 766 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,279 Speaker 2: they got fucking ran out by like several million uh 767 00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,640 Speaker 2: Venezuelans taking to the streets and just like overturning the coup, right, 768 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 2: and that I mean that happens later like in like 769 00:41:41,880 --> 00:41:43,160 Speaker 2: that there was you know, there there was there was 770 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:45,120 Speaker 2: a second round of barricades that went up that got 771 00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,560 Speaker 2: basically no press attention in twenty twenty. You know, then 772 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:50,120 Speaker 2: there's a whole comp I'll talk about that one day. 773 00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:54,359 Speaker 2: And how hilariously after getting bailed out, even Morallies pulled 774 00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:56,160 Speaker 2: his people off the barricades because they didn't actually want 775 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,480 Speaker 2: to oversow the government. They just wanted an election, like well, 776 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,279 Speaker 2: people off to keep the government intact long enough. He's 777 00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:03,719 Speaker 2: done this in many This is the second time he's 778 00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:05,040 Speaker 2: done this, by the way, has happened in the water 779 00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:08,120 Speaker 2: in the water wars uh in two and six. But uh, 780 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 2: you know, but but like in the initial period of 781 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 2: the coup, part of the reason this this was able 782 00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 2: to happen again was because the capacity of these groups 783 00:42:16,480 --> 00:42:20,160 Speaker 2: to like overturn something like this had been so new, 784 00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:21,760 Speaker 2: or that they were able to sort of be defeated 785 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,879 Speaker 2: in the streets and you know we are we are 786 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 2: watching our own version of this where, Yeah, like I 787 00:42:28,320 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 2: wanted to sort of talk to you about what's been happening, 788 00:42:30,880 --> 00:42:34,399 Speaker 2: the fucking hell escape that's been happening in Louisiana, as 789 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:37,799 Speaker 2: you know, partially because of the sort of Republican's fascist turn, 790 00:42:38,040 --> 00:42:41,520 Speaker 2: but also because the resistance to them has been neutered 791 00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,000 Speaker 2: by the fact that they're you know, they have to 792 00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:46,080 Speaker 2: like defend this Biden policy shit. 793 00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 3: Right, And yeah, So one important point to make about 794 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:55,040 Speaker 3: the federal the need for federal protections is that you know, 795 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,960 Speaker 3: I live in Louisiana. Federal protections are all I'm ever 796 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,960 Speaker 3: gonna have, yeah, right, And so if the federal protections 797 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,319 Speaker 3: aren't there, and if there's not a federal government willing 798 00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,680 Speaker 3: to enforce them, I'm I'm in big trouble. Like I 799 00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:09,520 Speaker 3: would bet every single dollar I have, which is not many, 800 00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,920 Speaker 3: that my Medicaid will will not cover my hormones by 801 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:16,520 Speaker 3: the end of the year. Right, And so what I think, 802 00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:19,319 Speaker 3: and I've highlighted kind of before when it was very 803 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,600 Speaker 3: clear that Jeff Landry was going to become governor after 804 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,680 Speaker 3: John Bell and actually did drug policy for John Bell 805 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,919 Speaker 3: for a while, and a lot of trans people were 806 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,520 Speaker 3: kind of quietly in his administration. I think that my 807 00:43:29,560 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 3: friend Tucker, aside from Rachel Levine, was probably the highest 808 00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:38,160 Speaker 3: ranked state executive branch transperson in history as deputy Press 809 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 3: secretary for a while. I'm yeah, I'm not to but yeah, 810 00:43:41,200 --> 00:43:43,720 Speaker 3: trans people busted ask to get John Bell elected. And 811 00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:47,440 Speaker 3: so we had held off a lot of this stuff 812 00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:52,520 Speaker 3: for a long time, not just through having a nominally 813 00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:58,200 Speaker 3: democratic governor, but through the organizing in the South that 814 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:03,920 Speaker 3: that happens on no resources whatsoever is some of the 815 00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:08,319 Speaker 3: most broad based and inspiring kind of coalitional organizing that 816 00:44:08,360 --> 00:44:11,880 Speaker 3: I've ever seen, and I've done work all around the country, 817 00:44:12,080 --> 00:44:15,440 Speaker 3: and the way that people are able to organize kind 818 00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:21,359 Speaker 3: of cross issue here is phenomenal. But we are all 819 00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:27,120 Speaker 3: Jerry manderd to shit. We get no money, attention resources 820 00:44:27,320 --> 00:44:32,440 Speaker 3: from national groups off in the media, and especially here 821 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,080 Speaker 3: in Louisiana and in much of the South, like we 822 00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:38,920 Speaker 3: are not an attractive place for impact litigation because we're 823 00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,040 Speaker 3: in the Fifth Circuit and all our state courts are shit, 824 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,000 Speaker 3: and so we really kind of are on our own 825 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 3: here in a all of a sudden Republican super majority 826 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:54,239 Speaker 3: legislature with an activist fascist governor and ag so, Jeff 827 00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:56,360 Speaker 3: Jeff Blandery is very much in the model of the 828 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,520 Speaker 3: disantis or an abbot in terms of what he is 829 00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,759 Speaker 3: hoping to do in Louisiana and what he's hoping to 830 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:04,360 Speaker 3: get out of it in terms of his own personal 831 00:45:04,440 --> 00:45:08,279 Speaker 3: profile and ambitions. And there's so much we could talk 832 00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 3: about in terms of what's going on here, but I 833 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:12,960 Speaker 3: want to highlight specifically a s B two seventy six, 834 00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,080 Speaker 3: which is the bill you may have seen headlines about. 835 00:45:15,120 --> 00:45:18,160 Speaker 3: It's the bill that adds mith pristone and muspristall to 836 00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,800 Speaker 3: the State Schedule for Controlled Substances Act. 837 00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:25,480 Speaker 2: And can you can you explain what that what that 838 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:26,760 Speaker 2: actually means for people who. 839 00:45:26,640 --> 00:45:31,120 Speaker 3: Do Yeah, so, myth and MISO are used for a 840 00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,160 Speaker 3: lot of a lot of healthcare in terms of, for example, 841 00:45:34,080 --> 00:45:38,920 Speaker 3: miscarriage management inducing labor in a hospital, but that they 842 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,719 Speaker 3: can also be used for self managed medication abortion. And 843 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:44,799 Speaker 3: so this has not been done anywhere else in the 844 00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:48,279 Speaker 3: in the country where the leading the charge here. No 845 00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:52,560 Speaker 3: other state has ever added drugs like this to their 846 00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:57,040 Speaker 3: controlled Substances long And so what that means is that 847 00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,839 Speaker 3: those drugs are now going to be going through the 848 00:46:00,880 --> 00:46:04,520 Speaker 3: Prescription Monitoring Program the PMP, which has a lot more 849 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:09,360 Speaker 3: controls and surveillance than non controlled substances. Right, So the 850 00:46:09,400 --> 00:46:13,040 Speaker 3: Board of Medicine, the Board Pharmacy, and I'm trying, I'm 851 00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,479 Speaker 3: trying to do a survey now to figure out which 852 00:46:15,520 --> 00:46:19,360 Speaker 3: state agents specifically have like automatic inherent access to that 853 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,800 Speaker 3: PMP database. But it makes it a lot more traceable 854 00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:26,640 Speaker 3: and trackable, which is which is really scary for anybody 855 00:46:26,640 --> 00:46:29,520 Speaker 3: trying to access reproductive and abortion healthcare in a place 856 00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:33,080 Speaker 3: like Louisiana. And then the other thing it does is 857 00:46:34,320 --> 00:46:38,880 Speaker 3: it raises the stakes phenomenally for the people doing the 858 00:46:38,960 --> 00:46:40,880 Speaker 3: kind of and I'm going to speak, I'm going to 859 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:42,600 Speaker 3: try to speak very carefully, or the people doing the 860 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:48,040 Speaker 3: kind of direct practical support work to work with underserved 861 00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:52,000 Speaker 3: populations to make sure that they can access healthcare services 862 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:53,040 Speaker 3: that they need. 863 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:53,439 Speaker 7: Right. 864 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:56,719 Speaker 3: And it is just a it is a fact of 865 00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,399 Speaker 3: life that you know, just like in the harm production movement, 866 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:01,840 Speaker 3: there are a lot of people on the ground busting 867 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,839 Speaker 3: ass to get people what they need. And you know, 868 00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:08,000 Speaker 3: for a lot of times for abortion funds, it's organizing 869 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:12,560 Speaker 3: money and transportation and hotels to get people out of state. 870 00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:14,919 Speaker 3: Right since the Florida abortion van, we can't send people 871 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 3: there anymore. We have to send people to Illinois, which 872 00:47:17,600 --> 00:47:23,480 Speaker 3: is more expensive further way. And it's those people who 873 00:47:23,719 --> 00:47:26,759 Speaker 3: are at risk, the people doing the work like the 874 00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:30,439 Speaker 3: backbone of the on the ground grassroots practical support mutual 875 00:47:30,520 --> 00:47:35,440 Speaker 3: aid work that are risking. I think it's you know, 876 00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:41,359 Speaker 3: five to ten years per pill if they are you know, 877 00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:44,920 Speaker 3: providing them to someone else. It's terrifying, and there's no 878 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:48,319 Speaker 3: we don't know what we're going to do about it yet. 879 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:49,799 Speaker 3: It's going to call last night kind of like what 880 00:47:49,800 --> 00:47:51,400 Speaker 3: are we going to do about this? We don't know 881 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:56,200 Speaker 3: because it's scary. And then jumping back to kind of 882 00:47:56,200 --> 00:47:58,680 Speaker 3: the problem with how not problem nonprofit and advocacy funding 883 00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 3: works in this country. There are a lot of restrictions 884 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,440 Speaker 3: that come that are you know that organizations who are 885 00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,960 Speaker 3: funded that way have to live with, Like especially I'll 886 00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:10,200 Speaker 3: speak to the harm reduction world. For example, you'll get 887 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,120 Speaker 3: a grant at your syringe exchange and they're like, here's 888 00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,200 Speaker 3: ten thousand dollars, but you can't spend any of it 889 00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:18,560 Speaker 3: on needles, and you're like, that's my biggest expense. That's 890 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:21,279 Speaker 3: what I was good as you know, And so it's 891 00:48:21,320 --> 00:48:23,440 Speaker 3: the same kind of thing. The more that this kind 892 00:48:23,440 --> 00:48:27,200 Speaker 3: of work gets criminalized and pushed to the edge, the 893 00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:32,120 Speaker 3: fewer resourced organizations are able to work on it, have 894 00:48:32,120 --> 00:48:34,439 Speaker 3: the money that we're going it but be just there 895 00:48:35,480 --> 00:48:38,520 Speaker 3: legal teams. The chilling effects of this stuff are massive, 896 00:48:39,040 --> 00:48:41,120 Speaker 3: and so it just falls more and more on the 897 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:44,360 Speaker 3: backs of kind of the grassroots folks who have always 898 00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,759 Speaker 3: been making this happen for community to the extent that 899 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:50,440 Speaker 3: they can under the harshest of circumstances. And you know, 900 00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,239 Speaker 3: it's people like that who are who are going to 901 00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:56,760 Speaker 3: have to make some really tough decisions going forward. 902 00:48:57,719 --> 00:49:04,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, like the it's never there's never 903 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:08,160 Speaker 2: been a good or safe time to do stuff like this. 904 00:49:08,320 --> 00:49:10,840 Speaker 2: But you know, as as it gets increasingly dangerous, and 905 00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:15,480 Speaker 2: as you know, you get the sort of downstream effects 906 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:19,120 Speaker 2: of both the sort of legal like but both the 907 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,840 Speaker 2: sort of legal danger and the sort of like constricting 908 00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,120 Speaker 2: of movement space by by the sort of question of 909 00:49:26,160 --> 00:49:29,920 Speaker 2: these engios, things just get more and more dangerous in 910 00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,840 Speaker 2: a time where the people who need to be dangerous 911 00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:34,960 Speaker 2: is us, because otherwise we are going to die. 912 00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:42,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, scary time, but yeah, you know, we keep us 913 00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,160 Speaker 3: fucking safe and yeah, always have and always will. And 914 00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:49,799 Speaker 3: it's going to be rough what we're heading into. But 915 00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,520 Speaker 3: you know, I again, the organizing in the South is 916 00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:58,400 Speaker 3: I've never seen anything that's made me so proud to 917 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:00,719 Speaker 3: be an organizer and an actor as the work that 918 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:02,960 Speaker 3: I see in the South. And so if there's anybody 919 00:50:03,040 --> 00:50:06,200 Speaker 3: who can lead the way on how to respond to 920 00:50:06,280 --> 00:50:08,799 Speaker 3: these things and how to take care of each other, 921 00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:09,839 Speaker 3: you know. 922 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,120 Speaker 4: It's it's our people. It's these people who've been doing 923 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:12,560 Speaker 4: it forever. 924 00:50:12,840 --> 00:50:15,720 Speaker 2: So yeah, And I think on that note, if people 925 00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,480 Speaker 2: want to find you and the people you've been working 926 00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:21,200 Speaker 2: with in the orgs that you're sort of working with, 927 00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:24,480 Speaker 2: nowhere where can they find that? On the Internet, where 928 00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:27,360 Speaker 2: I guess other places too. Are there other things that 929 00:50:27,400 --> 00:50:29,520 Speaker 2: are not the Internet at. 930 00:50:29,360 --> 00:50:33,840 Speaker 3: This point, I'm not, I really don't. Yeah, So you 931 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:37,920 Speaker 3: can find me on Twitter. I'm Gay Narcan on Twitter. 932 00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:38,799 Speaker 5: That's that's me. 933 00:50:39,320 --> 00:50:42,279 Speaker 3: And then if you are interested in supporting kind of 934 00:50:42,320 --> 00:50:45,440 Speaker 3: the work that my collective is doing, the probably the 935 00:50:45,440 --> 00:50:47,080 Speaker 3: best place to go for that right now is our 936 00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:51,680 Speaker 3: first launched project called trans Income Project it's trans Income 937 00:50:51,760 --> 00:50:56,080 Speaker 3: Project dot org and what that is is an organization 938 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,360 Speaker 3: that is solely dedicated to doing direct cash transfers to 939 00:50:59,440 --> 00:51:02,600 Speaker 3: transsext words in Louisiana. We just had some of our 940 00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:07,439 Speaker 3: first listening sessions with folks and yeah, this is gonna 941 00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:10,440 Speaker 3: be so kick ass, So yeah, go go there for 942 00:51:10,880 --> 00:51:13,360 Speaker 3: that direct project. And then I would also encourage folks 943 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:16,840 Speaker 3: to take a look at Louisiana Transadvocates. I used to 944 00:51:16,880 --> 00:51:20,160 Speaker 3: be president there and it's the state transavacy organization. We're actually 945 00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:21,920 Speaker 3: the state in the South that it has had the 946 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:26,759 Speaker 3: longest consistent trans presence at the Capitol through Louisiana Transadvocates. 947 00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:30,800 Speaker 3: And we have no fucking money, so feel free to 948 00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:32,360 Speaker 3: so maybe toss something over there too. 949 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,960 Speaker 2: If you get tired. Yeah, I will say this, given 950 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:40,480 Speaker 2: how fucking zero dollars every transperson has, like this is 951 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:42,920 Speaker 2: one are the places where your individual dollar will go 952 00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,279 Speaker 2: the furthest because you're like your your ten dollars is 953 00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,960 Speaker 2: like a three hundred percent increase on like a total 954 00:51:49,000 --> 00:51:52,480 Speaker 2: funding of these works. All right, Well, thank you so 955 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:54,480 Speaker 2: much for coming on and talking. 956 00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:56,480 Speaker 4: About this, and thanks so much for having me. 957 00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:02,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I guess by final, final, final message to listeners, 958 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,439 Speaker 2: go fuck him up. You could do it too. 959 00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:08,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, that I agreed completely. Quote LN. 960 00:52:13,239 --> 00:52:15,799 Speaker 6: Hi everyone, it's me James, and I just wanted to 961 00:52:15,800 --> 00:52:17,640 Speaker 6: read you this today. We're going to put it in 962 00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:20,320 Speaker 6: our episode this week because it's a cause that's important 963 00:52:20,360 --> 00:52:22,799 Speaker 6: to us, and so we thought it would be something 964 00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:24,799 Speaker 6: that might be important to you too as well. On 965 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,880 Speaker 6: the tenth of June twenty twenty four, Leonard Peltier, an 966 00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:30,760 Speaker 6: enrolled member of the Turtle Band of Chippewa of Lakota 967 00:52:30,760 --> 00:52:33,960 Speaker 6: and Ojibwei ancestry and the longest serving political prisoner in 968 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,000 Speaker 6: the United States, will be appearing before the US Parole 969 00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:39,480 Speaker 6: Commission for the first time since two thousand and nine. 970 00:52:40,120 --> 00:52:43,080 Speaker 6: He faces staunch opposition from the FBI and other law 971 00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:47,560 Speaker 6: enforcement agencies due to having allegedly killed two FBI agents 972 00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:50,040 Speaker 6: in a firefight on the twenty sixth of June nineteen 973 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:53,920 Speaker 6: seventy five, after the agents appeared on reservation land to 974 00:52:54,000 --> 00:52:58,600 Speaker 6: execute a pretextural warrant. The initial firefight occurred during the 975 00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:01,600 Speaker 6: quote reign of terror on Pine Ridge in the wake 976 00:53:01,640 --> 00:53:04,240 Speaker 6: of the occupation of Wounded Knee, a time of extreme 977 00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:07,520 Speaker 6: violence when federal law enforcement installed a puppet tribal chair 978 00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:12,560 Speaker 6: and was arming vigilantes who targeted Indigenous traditionalists. Every since 979 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:15,480 Speaker 6: leading up to these events, as well as subsequent investigation 980 00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:21,000 Speaker 6: and mister Peltier's extradition, trial, conviction, and sentencing, were characterized 981 00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:24,360 Speaker 6: by gross misconduct on the part of law enforcement, the prosecution, 982 00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:28,880 Speaker 6: and the courts. Mister Peltier's co defendants were separately tried 983 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:33,200 Speaker 6: and acquitted on grounds of self defense. Mister Peltier was railroaded, 984 00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:35,920 Speaker 6: and his case is tainted by discrimination at every level, 985 00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:39,480 Speaker 6: ranging from the withholding of exculpatory evidence to the torture 986 00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:42,800 Speaker 6: and coercion of extradition and trial witnesses, and from the 987 00:53:42,840 --> 00:53:45,600 Speaker 6: refusal of the judge to dismiss and vowedly racist Dura, 988 00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,560 Speaker 6: to the apologetic gymnastics of the courts affirming his convictions 989 00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,920 Speaker 6: in the face of meritorious legal challenges, had admitted evidence 990 00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:57,200 Speaker 6: of outrageous government misdeeds. Mister Peltier has been in prison 991 00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,439 Speaker 6: for more than forty eight years, and he's almost eighty 992 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,680 Speaker 6: years old. He suffers from chronic and potentially lethal conditions 993 00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:09,319 Speaker 6: for which he receives insufficient and substandard medical care. If 994 00:54:09,360 --> 00:54:12,640 Speaker 6: you want to take action to hashtag free Leonard Peltier, 995 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,080 Speaker 6: you can call the US Parole Commission at two zero 996 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:21,640 Speaker 6: two three four six seven zero zero zero, and if 997 00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:23,600 Speaker 6: you'd like to find more information on how to support, 998 00:54:23,719 --> 00:54:26,120 Speaker 6: you can go to this r L it's h T 999 00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:31,440 Speaker 6: T P colon slash slash n d N C O 1000 00:54:32,080 --> 00:54:36,799 Speaker 6: dot c C slash free Leonard Peltier. 1001 00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:38,360 Speaker 4: That's f ir. 1002 00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:41,600 Speaker 6: E E L E O n A r D P 1003 00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,120 Speaker 6: E L t I E R, or you can follow 1004 00:54:45,280 --> 00:54:47,760 Speaker 6: n d N Collective on social media for more ways 1005 00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,200 Speaker 6: to support him. More information on Leonard Peltier, listen to 1006 00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,279 Speaker 6: Margaret's podcast on the Lakota Nation, a read in the 1007 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:56,840 Speaker 6: Spirit of the Crazy Horse by Peter Mathewson. 1008 00:55:03,200 --> 00:55:05,560 Speaker 7: It Could Happen Here as a production of cool Zone Media. 1009 00:55:05,800 --> 00:55:08,480 Speaker 7: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 1010 00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:11,600 Speaker 7: coolzonemedia dot com or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 1011 00:55:11,640 --> 00:55:14,839 Speaker 7: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can 1012 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:17,560 Speaker 7: find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated monthly at 1013 00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,840 Speaker 7: coolzonemedia dot com slash sources. Thanks for listening.