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Speaker 1: The way we got to debt cancelation was not because

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Speaker 1: of researchers. It was not because of policy makers, and

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Speaker 1: it shore was not because of elective officials. It was

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Speaker 1: because of borrowers coming together and really organizing and really

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Speaker 1: small numbers at first to show the absurdity of the

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Speaker 1: student loan system, and through their organizing, it's the only

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Speaker 1: reason we even know the phrase debt cancelation, and it's

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Speaker 1: the only reason now that millions of people have experienced

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Speaker 1: the filling of debt cancelation, and it's the reason why

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Speaker 1: we're in the moment where debt cancelation is feeling more

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Speaker 1: real than it ever has before.

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Speaker 2: From Futuro media and PRX, it's Latino USA, like Madao

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Speaker 2: Hosa today the growing call to abolish student debt.

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Speaker 3: So I mean the studio today with producer Hey.

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Speaker 4: Who Hey Maria.

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Speaker 5: So.

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Speaker 4: I don't know if you remember this media, but when

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Speaker 4: I joined the team as a little intern at Latino

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Speaker 4: USA back in January of twenty twenty, I was still

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Speaker 4: in school at our shared alma mater, Barnard College, and

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Speaker 4: as a child of immigrants and first generation college student,

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Speaker 4: higher education was always framed to me as like the

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Speaker 4: avenue for upward mobility.

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Speaker 2: It's always framed that way, especially for children of immigrants.

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Speaker 2: It's like, got to go to school, no ifs, answer

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Speaker 2: butts for sure.

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Speaker 4: So I graduated the spring that the pandemic hit, and

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Speaker 4: as I tuned into my YouTube live broadcast virtual graduation.

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Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's so sad.

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Speaker 6: In my parents' living room in California, Oh god, I

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Speaker 6: was already thinking about the nineteen thousand dollars I had

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Speaker 6: taken out in federal student loans in order to attend school,

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Speaker 6: and how I was going to pay that money back.

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Speaker 3: That's a lot of money for a young person.

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Speaker 2: So it's like you can't reach these celebrate because you're

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Speaker 2: like celebrating, but you're also like, oh my god, I've

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Speaker 2: got to start paying this back right right.

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Speaker 4: And compared to some of my peers, it wasn't even

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Speaker 4: that much. I had a lot of friends graduate with

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Speaker 4: six figures of student loan debt. It's just a wild feeling,

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Speaker 4: like an anxiety that starts to overshadow everything else. The

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Speaker 4: main question on your mind isn't what am I going

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Speaker 4: to do to build a fulfilling life or make a

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Speaker 4: positive impact on my community? For many people, it starts

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Speaker 4: to become how on Earth am I going to pay

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Speaker 4: this back? And of course, this is an issue that

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Speaker 4: disproportionately impacts black and brown communities. Some studies show almost

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Speaker 4: ninety percent of black students have to take out loans,

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Speaker 4: and around seventy three percent of LATINX students take out loans,

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Speaker 4: compared to sixty six percent of white students. Studies also

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Speaker 4: show that LATINX students who grew up in economically vulnerable

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Speaker 4: communities might see student loans as a financial burden that

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Speaker 4: can affect their families financial stability, choosing to drop out

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Speaker 4: of school or skip college altogether. But because of the pandemic,

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Speaker 4: I actually haven't had to pay back a cent of

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Speaker 4: my student loan so far because in March of twenty twenty,

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Speaker 4: the Department of Education issued a moratorium on student loan

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Speaker 4: payments and interest. To help our students and their families,

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Speaker 4: I've waived interest in all student loans held by federal

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Speaker 4: government agencies and that will be until further notice.

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Speaker 3: Right, I remember that. I mean it was a big deal.

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Speaker 2: Also, of course, twenty twenty was a presidential election year,

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Speaker 2: so there was a lot of motivation politically to do

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Speaker 2: this because student debt cancelation was a big talking point.

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Speaker 2: Joe Biden running on a platform basically of at least

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Speaker 2: partial student debt cancelation, and if you look back at

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Speaker 2: the ads from his campaign, you can see it was

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Speaker 2: definitely appealing to bring out young voters.

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Speaker 7: I was really terrified of going into debt after I

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Speaker 7: graduated high school. The fact that Joe Biden wants to

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Speaker 7: forgive student debts is something I'm excited about voting for me.

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Speaker 4: So I started to get interested in the issue and

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Speaker 4: I wanted to know how we got to this moment.

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Speaker 4: My first question was, how on earth did we get

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Speaker 4: to a place where the US government holds around one

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Speaker 4: point six trillion dollars in student loan debt. As I

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Speaker 4: did more research, I found that just a few decades ago,

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Speaker 4: public college used to mean free college. I spoke with

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Speaker 4: doctor Julio Mustafa Bishop. He's a leading researcher on anti racism,

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Speaker 4: racism and higher education and student loan policy.

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Speaker 1: We switched to student loans of the exact moment that

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Speaker 1: low income people, black and brown communities were enrolling.

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Speaker 8: Going into the buildings as a math have people to

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Speaker 8: come out of class.

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Speaker 1: You also have the sixties and the seventies being not

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Speaker 1: only a time of social movements and social unrest in

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Speaker 1: the country, but particularly on college campuses. You are seeing

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Speaker 1: everything from free space each to racial justice movements to

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Speaker 1: apart time battles, all planning out on college campuses.

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Speaker 4: Julil says that in the wake of student organizing, there

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Speaker 4: was a backlash and a vocal figure in that opposition

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Speaker 4: was California Governor and then President of the United States

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Speaker 4: Ronald Reagan.

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Speaker 7: Plain truth of the matter is this has to stop,

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Speaker 7: and it has to stop like the day before yesterday,

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Speaker 7: and it's going to be stopped whatever it takes.

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Speaker 4: During his time as governor of California, Reagan called for

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Speaker 4: an end to free state college tuition, and then when

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Speaker 4: he was elected president, Reagan continued to cut the education

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Speaker 4: budget as well as spending for other social programs, and

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Speaker 4: instead of government funding, student loans became the norm in

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Speaker 4: the decades to come.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot of that was because student

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Speaker 1: loans were imagined as this way to kind of discipline

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Speaker 1: this new wave of students who didn't fit the former

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Speaker 1: profile of advantage, of privilege, of coming from the elite backgrounds.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so, I think what I'm understanding is that as

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Speaker 2: student debt essentially becomes a bigger part of how we

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Speaker 2: pay for higher education, that meant that there were now

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Speaker 2: other actors who were in the picture, like, for example,

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Speaker 2: loan companies started popping up and like debt collectors.

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Speaker 3: Right.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, So, student loan companies like sally May signed multimillion

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Speaker 4: dollar contracts with the federal government, and in these agreements,

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Speaker 4: if a borrower couldn't pay the loan back, the government

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Speaker 4: would step in and cover the cost. So not only

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Speaker 4: would the loan company not lose money, they were also

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Speaker 4: guaranteed a profit on each loan, which gave many of

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Speaker 4: these companies a reason to give out large sums of

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Speaker 4: money regardless of whether a borrower could actually pay it back.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm sorry, but this sounds like a crisis

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Speaker 2: just waiting to explode.

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Speaker 3: Yep.

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Speaker 4: When the two thousand and eight recession hit, it became

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Speaker 4: clear that many of these loans would never be repaid,

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Speaker 4: and the student loan industry received one of the first

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Speaker 4: big bailouts.

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Speaker 9: It was the worst day on Wall Street since the

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Speaker 9: crash of nineteen eighty seven.

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Speaker 10: The height and financial turmoil that we have experienced of

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Speaker 10: late may well lengthen the period of week economic.

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Speaker 3: Performance and further increase the risks to growth.

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Speaker 4: So after the recession, the government made some adjustments. The

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Speaker 4: government now gives out loans directly, but long companies still

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Speaker 4: profit from servicing the loans. Here's Julie Bishop again.

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Speaker 1: Loan servicers. They don't own your loan, but they get

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Speaker 1: paid to service it. So they get paid to call you,

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Speaker 1: to call you again, to enroll you in programs to

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Speaker 1: make sure you're making your payments. We paid debt collectors

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Speaker 1: when you aren't making your payments to come after you,

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Speaker 1: paid private law firms to come after you.

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Speaker 11: You know.

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Speaker 2: So you realize that there are a lot of players,

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Speaker 2: that there's a lot of money at stake in the

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Speaker 2: student debt industry now, and it's so big that it's

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Speaker 2: almost as if a lot of people have just accepted

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Speaker 2: that this is the way it's going to be, right,

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Speaker 2: that it's a part of everyday life in the United

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Speaker 2: States of America.

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Speaker 3: But there's been a lot of demand for.

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Speaker 4: Change, definitely. So as I started digging into the issue,

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Speaker 4: I also wanted to know this story behind the call

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Speaker 4: for student debt abolition and how it's become a part

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Speaker 4: of our mainstream conversation.

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Speaker 12: Today marks what activists are calling one T Day, the

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Speaker 12: day US student debt reaches one trillion dollars.

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Speaker 4: In twenty twelve, just a bit over a decade ago,

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Speaker 4: people came out to protest that federal student loans hit

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Speaker 4: one trillion dollars. The demand from protesters was the same

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Speaker 4: demand as many advocates today, cancel all student debt and

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Speaker 4: make college tuition free. But at the time the demand

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Speaker 4: was unheard of, and coverage of the protest from across

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Speaker 4: the political spectrum framed the demand as lofty and naive.

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Speaker 2: So I'm wondering what did happen after that protest ten

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Speaker 2: years ago, and what did in fact help to move

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Speaker 2: the needle on the conversation.

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Speaker 3: Was it the act?

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Speaker 4: Student activism has been key in changing the conversation, And

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Speaker 4: today we're going to hear the stories of students who've

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Speaker 4: been speaking openly about their debt and demanding change. And

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Speaker 4: we're going to start with the story of Nathan Horns,

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Speaker 4: who was part of what some say is the first

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Speaker 4: student debt strike in US history, which happened back in

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Speaker 4: twenty fifteen, Nathan went to a for profit college which

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Speaker 4: was notorious for putting profit over students. But what he

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Speaker 4: discovered through his activism was that the problem was deeper

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Speaker 4: than the school itself. It was the student loan system

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Speaker 4: that allowed it to thrive, and as students realized that

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Speaker 4: their debt was not a personal problem but a systemic issue,

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Speaker 4: they began to demand systemic change.

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Speaker 2: Who I'm sorry that you have debt, But on the

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Speaker 2: other hand, as a journalist, I'm really glad that you're

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Speaker 2: doing this story, so I want to hear it.

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Speaker 3: Let's take a listen.

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Speaker 10: My name is Nathan Horns. I am from Columbia, Missouri.

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Speaker 4: In two thousand and eight, just as the nation was

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Speaker 4: plunged into an economic recession, Nathan Horns, an African American

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Speaker 4: eighteen year old, had recently graduated from high school in Missouri.

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Speaker 4: He moved to California to pursue his dream of becoming

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Speaker 4: a pop star.

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Speaker 10: I just wanted to be a member of a boy band,

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Speaker 10: Like I thought I was going to be like the

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Speaker 10: next member of like Ensyne or Backstreet Boys. Those are

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Speaker 10: my boys. Loved them seeing them live like one hundred times.

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Speaker 4: His mom gave him a clear ultimatum. Nathan had two

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Speaker 4: years to make it in the music industry with his parents'

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Speaker 4: financial support.

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Speaker 10: After the two years was up, she's like, hey, you're

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Speaker 10: not financially stable. We need you to go to school.

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Speaker 10: Both of my parents went to state schools, so my

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Speaker 10: parents didn't take out any love owned. My mother and

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Speaker 10: my father are both college graduates and it was very

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Speaker 10: important to them that their children went to college.

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Speaker 4: Nathan was feeling the pressure from his parents, and then

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Speaker 4: one day while he was watching TV, he saw a

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Speaker 4: commercial for Everest College.

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Speaker 13: I was looking for work and for six months, I

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Speaker 13: still can't find a job. I didn't know what else

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Speaker 13: did at High Chelse Everest, their commercials are actually real.

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Speaker 10: I'm not an actor. You have to call try it out.

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Speaker 13: That never is theirs for.

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Speaker 4: You everst College was a for profit college. It was

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Speaker 4: owned by Corinthian Colleges, Incorporated, a massive corporation based in California.

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Speaker 3: A for profit.

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Speaker 4: College is a college owned and operated by a private

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Speaker 4: company or business. They're often managed by investors and stakeholders,

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Speaker 4: and the profit they make is often used for non

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Speaker 4: educational purposes, like paying shareholders and executives. Lucrative salaries. Coming

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Speaker 4: out of the recession, the labor market was in shambles

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Speaker 4: and more and more people were looking to hire education

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Speaker 4: to better their situation. Companies like Corinthathan saw this as

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Speaker 4: an opportunity, advertising aggressively in black and brown communities and

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Speaker 4: making the dream of a college degree feel accessible.

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Speaker 10: I just was like, Hey, these are colleges that are

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Speaker 10: near where I live. Let me try to enroll.

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Speaker 4: Even though Nathan thought he was enrolling in a local school,

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Speaker 4: Corinthian had one hundred and five campuses across the country

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Speaker 4: and online with over one hundred thousand students. So Nathan

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Speaker 4: called the number on the screen that day and got

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Speaker 4: a hold of a recruiter. Then, for weeks on end,

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Speaker 4: his phone wouldn't stop ringing with calls from the recruiters

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Speaker 4: at Everest.

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Speaker 10: And they were saying like, Hey, Nathan, we really want

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Speaker 10: you to come and check the school out. There's no pressure,

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Speaker 10: just come in. We'll show you the school, you know,

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Speaker 10: see if it's a good fit for you.

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Speaker 4: Finally, Nathan, along with his older sister Natasha, decided to

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Speaker 4: get on the bus and check the school out, not

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Speaker 4: far from where they were living in Los Angeles at

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Speaker 4: the time. Nathan and Natasha's dream was to start a

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Speaker 4: recording label in music camp for kids.

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Speaker 10: When we finally get there, we sit down with the

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Speaker 10: recruiter and she basically says, Hey, if you don't sign

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Speaker 10: up today, you're going to have to wait six months

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Speaker 10: to enroll in school. She knew exactly what to say.

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Speaker 10: I just felt nervous, So.

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Speaker 4: Nathan filled out the paperwork right there on the spot,

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Speaker 4: enrolling in Everest. At the time, Everest had one of

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Speaker 4: the highest for profit tuition rates in the country. For example,

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Speaker 4: a two year degree in paralegal studies at the campus

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Speaker 4: that Nathan went to cost about forty one thousand dollars

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Speaker 4: compared to twenty four hundred dollars at the nearby community college.

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Speaker 10: Going into Everest, it was not like your normal state school.

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Speaker 10: There's not all these extracurricular activities. There's not a sports team,

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Speaker 10: there's not a mask on. You're just kind of here

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Speaker 10: to do the work.

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Speaker 4: In twenty eleven, when Nathan was enrolled at Everest, twenty

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Speaker 4: six percent of undergraduates at for profit schools were black,

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Speaker 4: compared to sixteen percent at public and private colleges. There

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Speaker 4: were similar trends in LATINX student enrollment.

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Speaker 10: You could definitely tell that they were targeting African American

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Speaker 10: and Latino men and women, black and brown mothers.

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Speaker 4: Even though for profit schools aren't public institutions, they still

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Speaker 4: get the vast majority of their revenue from federal funding.

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Speaker 4: How federal student loans for profit colleges like Everest explicitly

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Speaker 4: targeted low income and military students who qualified for federal

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Speaker 4: financial aid and student loans, So even though most students

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Speaker 4: couldn't pay the high tuition price upfront, they could take

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Speaker 4: out a loan from the federal government. In the case

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Speaker 4: of Corinthian, over eighty percent of their total revenue was

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Speaker 4: covered by these federal funds, and to cover the rest,

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Speaker 4: Corinthian turned to private loans with incredibly high interest rates.

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Speaker 4: Nathan remembers going to the financial aid office where he

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Speaker 4: was given a mountain of paperwork.

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Speaker 10: They don't give you time to read any documents or

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Speaker 10: anything like that. They're just like, Hey, don't worry about that,

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Speaker 10: We're going to get you scholarships. Where the scholarships, oh,

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Speaker 10: they came in the form of a student loan that

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Speaker 10: we never told you about. Congratulations, you're in debt.

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Speaker 4: Although the financial aid staff spoke about these loans as

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Speaker 4: quote unquote scholarships. Nathan says the school pulled out both

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Speaker 4: federal student loans as well as private loans, all without

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Speaker 4: his informed consent, and he would soon find out his

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Speaker 4: story was not unique.

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Speaker 2: Coming up on Latino USA, Nathan embarks on a journey

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Speaker 2: to hold fraudulent for profit schools accountable, but what he

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Speaker 2: encounters is much bigger than he could have imagined.

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Speaker 3: Stay with us not by.

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Speaker 2: Yes, Hey, we're back. So when we left off, we

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Speaker 2: were hearing the story of Nathan Horns. He attended Everest College,

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Speaker 2: which is a for prophets school owned by Corinthian College's Inc.

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Speaker 2: It's a company that targets low income and vulnerable students

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Speaker 2: of color and brings them into expensive college programs. Producer

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Speaker 2: Jujiro Chai is going to pick up this story from here.

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Speaker 4: In twenty ten, Nathan had enrolled in Everest College to

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Speaker 4: study business management with the hopes of starting a recording

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Speaker 4: label in music camp for kids with his sister. Although

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Speaker 4: Nathan couldn't afford the school's tuition, he says the financial

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Speaker 4: aid officer assured him that his tuition would be covered

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Speaker 4: through grants. But Nathan soon found out he was actually

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Speaker 4: expected to pay this money back because these so called

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Speaker 4: grants were actually student loans taken out without his consent.

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Speaker 10: No one knew about the loans. We didn't know about

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Speaker 10: the loans until six months before the loans were due.

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Speaker 4: And it's not like the federal government was unaware that

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Speaker 4: for profit schools like Everest were doing this. In twenty twelve,

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Speaker 4: while Nathan was in his second year of school, the

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Speaker 4: US Senate published a one thousand page report outlining the

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Speaker 4: many ways students were being misled and taken advantage of,

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Speaker 4: and the way federal money was funding these institutions. It

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Speaker 4: stated federal taxpayers are investing billions of dollars a year

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Speaker 4: in companies that operate for profit colleges. The report also

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Speaker 4: pointed out that the vast majority of students left with

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Speaker 4: student loan debt that would follow them throughout their lives,

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Speaker 4: and although some elected officials began to take notice, the

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Speaker 4: school stayed open for several more years.

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Speaker 5: This morning, my office filed suit against Corinthian Colleges in

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Speaker 5: what can only be described as a for profit college

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Speaker 5: predatory scheme.

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Speaker 4: Then, in twenty thirteen, Kamala Harris, who was Attorney General

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Speaker 4: of California at the time, sued Corinthian.

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Speaker 5: Essentially, we are talking about Corinthian colleges taking advantage of

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Speaker 5: Californians who simply aspire to achieve the American dream.

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Speaker 4: All of this was going on just as Nathan was

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Speaker 4: getting ready to graduate from Everest in May of twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 4: Nathan arrived at the church where his graduation was taking place.

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Speaker 4: Nathan remembers Everest officials guided excited graduates into one room

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Speaker 4: while family and friends filtered into the auditorium.

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Speaker 10: As we're in this room putting on our caps and gowns,

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Speaker 10: incomes the president of our location and he tells us, hey,

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Speaker 10: we need you to sign this form that says you

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Speaker 10: won't try to sue the school if you don't get

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Speaker 10: a job. They then tell us, if you don't sign

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Speaker 10: this paper, we will then make it so that you

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Speaker 10: don't walk today. So I just was like confused, and

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Speaker 10: other people were crying and signing the paper.

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Speaker 4: It was only after graduation that Nathan learned he owed

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Speaker 4: sixty eight thousand dollars plus interest in student loans. Nathan

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Speaker 4: was twenty four years old, unemployed, and expected to start

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Speaker 4: paying back over six hundred dollars a month for his

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Speaker 4: student loans.

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Speaker 10: Immediately after graduation, we're all like, what did we just sign?

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Speaker 10: What did we just do? Did we just sign our

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Speaker 10: rights away? We need to figure something out.

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Speaker 4: Unsure what to do next. Nathan and a few friends

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Speaker 4: from Everest began a Facebook group for other Everest students

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Speaker 4: to connect and share experiences. He called the group the

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Speaker 4: Everest Avengers.

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Speaker 10: It's so true because you know, avengers assembol. We got together,

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Speaker 10: we created the change we wanted to see.

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Speaker 4: Nathan and his friends started calling an emailing former students,

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Speaker 4: and when they had another people together, they gathered at

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Speaker 4: a local coffee shop a few blocks away from the

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Speaker 4: Everest campus they'd attended.

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Speaker 10: When we first started having our meetings at Clatch Coffee,

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Speaker 10: we were just sitting there telling our stories.

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Speaker 4: Although the meetings started small with just over a dozen students,

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Speaker 4: by the summer after graduation, Nathan says they were gathering

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Speaker 4: upwards of one hundred students at each meeting.

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Speaker 10: Of course, this is a very small coffee shop, so

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Speaker 10: they had this nice patio area and once a week

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Speaker 10: we would just go out there and just get with

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Speaker 10: our laptops and do research.

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Speaker 4: Then, in late May of twenty fourteen, a librarian at

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Speaker 4: Everest Campus, Nathan went To abruptly resigned and started talking

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Speaker 4: to the media about Everest predatory recruitment tactics. At the

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Speaker 4: time that this librarian was blowing the whistle on Everest,

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Speaker 4: a group of organizers calling themselves Strike Debt reached out

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Speaker 4: to her. Strike Debt got its start in twenty twelve,

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Speaker 4: forming out of the Occupy Wall Street movement. In twenty eleven,

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Speaker 4: they were exploring the relationship between household debt and racial

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Speaker 4: capitalism and asking themselves what a debt strike could look like.

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Speaker 4: Hannah Appel, a graduate student at Columbia University at the time,

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Speaker 4: was organizing with Strike Debt.

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Speaker 14: What is withholding our payments look like? Who would that

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Speaker 14: give us power over? How could that potentially change our

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Speaker 14: material conditions? And of course, when we hear the language

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Speaker 14: of strike, the place that we're most familiar with that

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Speaker 14: language is in a labor union. As in a workers' union, right,

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Speaker 14: workers alone are vulnerable, but together workers have the power

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Speaker 14: to withhold their labor to make demands.

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Speaker 4: Strike Debt got in touch with the librarian and asked

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Speaker 4: if she knew of any students organizing around their debt.

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Speaker 4: The librarian who had seen Nathan's Facebook group reached out

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Speaker 4: to him.

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Speaker 10: She found me on Facebook and was like, Hey, there's

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Speaker 10: this group. She explained what Occupy Wall Street was. Because

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Speaker 10: I'm like, I'm just trying to be a pop star.

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Speaker 10: I have no idea what any of that even means.

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Speaker 10: It's like, I've never been to Wall Street.

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Speaker 4: Nathan passed on his contact info. Hannah and the other

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Speaker 4: Strike Debt members reached out to Nathan and organized a

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Speaker 4: meeting between the Strike Debt crew and the group of

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Speaker 4: students Nathan had been organizing.

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Speaker 10: And that was the first time many of us discovered

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Speaker 10: about the Department of Education what student loans actually are.

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Speaker 10: And it was such an eye opening experience.

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Speaker 4: As Nathan met with the members of Strike Debt in

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Speaker 4: the summer of twenty fourteen and began to learn about

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Speaker 4: the government's involvement in Corinthian's predatory lending, the US Department

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Speaker 4: of Education started looking closely into Corinthian Colleges in July

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Speaker 4: of twenty fourteen, then, under an agreement with the Department

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Speaker 4: of Education, Corinthian Colleges announced it would put eighty five

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Speaker 4: of its US campuses up for sale and close. The

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Speaker 4: remaining dozen.

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Speaker 12: School is over for thousands of Southern California students.

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Speaker 4: They just learned their four offic colleges are suddenly closed.

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Speaker 6: While students were blindsided this morning when they opened an

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Speaker 6: email that said that their campus is closed starting now indefinitely.

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Speaker 4: Strike Debt now named Debt Collective brought together a group

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Speaker 4: of fifteen Corinthian College students from across the country to

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Speaker 4: spend a weekend together in San Francisco.

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Speaker 10: Being in that room was super powerful with all these

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Speaker 10: other students who share different backgrounds but very similar stories.

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Speaker 4: As students shared their stories, they realized they had a

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Speaker 4: lot in common. They all had a debt they couldn't pay,

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Speaker 4: but they were suffering the consequences alone. Here's Hannah Appel

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Speaker 4: of the Debt Collective again.

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Speaker 14: So what if they all said, not only could we

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Speaker 14: not pay as individuals, but we affirmatively collectively assert that

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Speaker 14: we won't pay because this debt is fraudulent.

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Speaker 4: So the fifteen students decided to go on strike.

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Speaker 10: Okay, we are Gridianity. By the time we announced the

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Speaker 10: Corinthian fifteen, we had already become the Corinthian one hundred.

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Speaker 13: Fifteen former students of the former for profit Corinthian Colleges

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Speaker 13: system have launched what they say is a nation's first

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Speaker 13: student that strike.

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Speaker 3: Dousands of college students striking.

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Speaker 10: That now a group known as a Corinthian one hundred

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Speaker 10: has gone on strike. It's all over news stations all

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Speaker 10: over the world. We were in the Washington Post, the Times,

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Speaker 10: it was everywhere.

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Speaker 4: Nathan was fired up seeing the strike build momentum.

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Speaker 10: I'm gonna quarius, so you know, things like this really

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Speaker 10: kind of resonate. We're going to be the Corinthion fifteen.

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Speaker 10: We're gonna get out therever pounding the pavement. Somebody gave

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Speaker 10: me a bullharn, I'm ready.

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Speaker 4: As the Decollective was helping to organize the students, they

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Speaker 4: also reached out to Luke Heron, a student at NYU Law.

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Speaker 15: If we're organizing around their debt, who do they primarily

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Speaker 15: owe the debt to that we're talking about, Well, it's

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Speaker 15: to the federal government.

443
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 4: Luke realized that the legal document that ruled their debt

444
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,920
Speaker 4: was the Higher Education Act of nineteen sixty five.

445
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,000
Speaker 15: And so what I did is I literally printed out

446
00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 15: the Higher Education Act. And it is not an easy read,

447
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 15: and at least it's very long and complicated statutory scheme.

448
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,159
Speaker 4: As Luke looked through the long document, he found a

449
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:36,119
Speaker 4: clause that made him pause. It's called borrower defense to repayment,

450
00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 4: which states that borrowers have a right to defend themselves

451
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,240
Speaker 4: against the collection of a debt if the debt was

452
00:26:42,320 --> 00:26:43,879
Speaker 4: issued in a fraudulent manner.

453
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:47,240
Speaker 15: And so it occurred to me that that seemed pretty

454
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,359
Speaker 15: directly on point to the situation here. It was almost

455
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,159
Speaker 15: suspicious at first, Why isn't something happening about this? It

456
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 15: seemed a little too perfect.

457
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 4: Even though the law was technically there, there was no

458
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:00,320
Speaker 4: form you could fill out, and the Department of Edguction

459
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,920
Speaker 4: didn't have any type of infrastructure to address these claims.

460
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,720
Speaker 15: It became obvious to us they have a strong institutional

461
00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:09,320
Speaker 15: bias against doing this because the Department of Education with

462
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,760
Speaker 15: respect to higher education is primarily set up to collect debts,

463
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:16,880
Speaker 15: and so this is a way to stop itself from collecting.

464
00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,840
Speaker 4: But Luke saw this lack of infrastructure as a possibility.

465
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:25,080
Speaker 15: There was no legal process in place to make that happen,

466
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 15: so we could make it up. So my thought was,

467
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,000
Speaker 15: let's design a way I'm applying to have your debt canceled.

468
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:38,520
Speaker 15: That's as easy as possible, but that also speaks the

469
00:27:38,560 --> 00:27:39,879
Speaker 15: language of the Department of Education.

470
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:43,840
Speaker 4: Luke and other collaborators created an online form that as

471
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 4: students simple questions about their experience at Corinthian colleges. The

472
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,199
Speaker 4: resulting PDF was a legal argument ready to present to

473
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:53,360
Speaker 4: the Department of Education.

474
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,800
Speaker 15: So if you say, you know, the loan officer lied

475
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:58,359
Speaker 15: to me about you know, whether I was taken on loans,

476
00:27:58,359 --> 00:28:00,360
Speaker 15: they said it was going to be grants, and we've

477
00:28:00,359 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 15: plugged that into a claim about misstatements about financial aid,

478
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:08,040
Speaker 15: and then the resulting PDAPP document is a legal pleading. Therefore,

479
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:09,959
Speaker 15: Department of Education cancel this debt.

480
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 4: Nathan and the other Corinthian fifteen students were some of

481
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 4: the first to use the tool. The Debt Collective then

482
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 4: published the tool on their website and circulated the link

483
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 4: on Facebook groups like the one Nathan had created. Hundreds

484
00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,879
Speaker 4: of students began filling out the form.

485
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 15: You have to remember that when people are filling these out,

486
00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,080
Speaker 15: there's no way to submit them to the Department of Education.

487
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,520
Speaker 15: So we're just like seeing them fill them out and

488
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:36,800
Speaker 15: then we have them right and we developed all of

489
00:28:36,840 --> 00:28:41,400
Speaker 15: these information security procedures. We're very serious about protective people's privacy,

490
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:43,240
Speaker 15: but we were like, well, what do we do? How

491
00:28:43,320 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 15: do we submit them?

492
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 4: Then in March of twenty fifteen, just a month after

493
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,880
Speaker 4: the Corinthian fifteen had gone public with their debt strike,

494
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 4: they met with several government officials, including representatives from the

495
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 4: Department of Education and Consumer Financial Protection in Washington, DC.

496
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 10: So we're here about the state blog.

497
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,160
Speaker 4: Nathan was excited to go to Washington, DC and capture

498
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 4: the moment for his YouTube blogubal.

499
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 10: Meetings and things like that. It's going to be super awesome.

500
00:29:11,360 --> 00:29:15,120
Speaker 10: We're doing things that has actually never been done before. Guys.

501
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,280
Speaker 10: We're changing the way that people think about student debt,

502
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,560
Speaker 10: and that's what is super important.

503
00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,760
Speaker 4: As they prepared for the meeting, Luke decided to print

504
00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:27,400
Speaker 4: out the over two hundred borrower defense claims the Corinthian

505
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:28,720
Speaker 4: students had filled out.

506
00:29:28,920 --> 00:29:32,080
Speaker 15: And I got a paper box and I spray painted

507
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 15: it red and I put the applications in it, and

508
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,120
Speaker 15: then brought it to DC with me and we literally

509
00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 15: plopped it on the desk in front of the Undersecretary

510
00:29:40,960 --> 00:29:43,560
Speaker 15: for Higher Education in the Department of Education, and that

511
00:29:43,720 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 15: was how we submitted the first applications, and our argument

512
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,960
Speaker 15: at every point was don't look at these applications individually,

513
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 15: look at them as evidence of a systemic problem, and

514
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:54,040
Speaker 15: deal with the problem systemically.

515
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,320
Speaker 4: By creating this online tool and generating hundreds of legal pleatings,

516
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 4: the Department of Education was forced to create a way

517
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,040
Speaker 4: to deal with these claims. Eventually, the Department created their

518
00:30:05,080 --> 00:30:08,080
Speaker 4: own online tool, which looked a lot like the one

519
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:09,560
Speaker 4: the Debt Collective had created.

520
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 15: It was a victory in a certain way because if

521
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:15,720
Speaker 15: we hadn't designed our own application that's like the easiest

522
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 15: possible way to apply, they would have made some ridiculous

523
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 15: document that would have required all these affidavits and a notary.

524
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:27,120
Speaker 4: Although the effort had started by focusing only on Corinthian colleges,

525
00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:31,120
Speaker 4: it soon expanded to other for profit schools like itt

526
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,320
Speaker 4: Tech and the Art Institutes. In just over a year

527
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 4: and a half, the Department of Education reports over eighty

528
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:44,240
Speaker 4: two thousand students use their website to file their claims. Then,

529
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,600
Speaker 4: in May of twenty fifteen, two months after the Corinthian

530
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 4: fifteen members met with government officials, Corinthian colleges Incorporated shut

531
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 4: down and filed for bankruptcy, reporting less than twenty million

532
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 4: dollars in assets and one hundred and forty three million

533
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,320
Speaker 4: dollars in debt. As the for profit giant finally collapsed,

534
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,200
Speaker 4: students waited to see what this would mean for the

535
00:31:06,320 --> 00:31:08,720
Speaker 4: thousands of dollars they had taken out in loans to

536
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 4: attend these schools.

537
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 10: That's when we first started seeing people get their debt discharged,

538
00:31:16,480 --> 00:31:20,320
Speaker 10: and I'm like, okay, but I was one of the

539
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:25,480
Speaker 10: first people to fill this form out. I am trying

540
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 10: to figure out why my debt has not been discharged.

541
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 10: What's happening? Obama question mark exclamation point, like, sir, what's

542
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:34,720
Speaker 10: going on? You need to call me, so many email,

543
00:31:34,840 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 10: whatever it takes. I'm available.

544
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 4: It would be over a year of uncertainty before Nathan

545
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 4: received any information about the sixty eight thousand dollars in

546
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 4: loans he had dangling over his head.

547
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 10: I was living from pillar to post, as my mom

548
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:56,240
Speaker 10: would say, sleeping on couches with friends, family members, things

549
00:31:56,320 --> 00:32:02,000
Speaker 10: like that. I got an email mail on February seventeenth,

550
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 10: twoenty seventeen, my birthday, from the Department of Education telling

551
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 10: me that I owed zero dollars. I was just mind blown.

552
00:32:15,280 --> 00:32:16,280
Speaker 10: I started crying.

553
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 4: Nathan was hopeful that maybe this strike would lead to

554
00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:24,600
Speaker 4: massive debt cancelation for everyone.

555
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:27,080
Speaker 10: I'm like, maybe they'll get rid of all of it

556
00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:29,440
Speaker 10: and none of us will have to worry about it.

557
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 10: That has yet to happen, however, I thought, and I

558
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:39,240
Speaker 10: was hopeful that that could happen because I just wanted

559
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 10: everyone to feel the same joy that I felt.

560
00:32:45,080 --> 00:32:48,120
Speaker 4: Nathan was surprised to learn that not even all Corinthian

561
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 4: students had their debts discharged, as the Department of Education

562
00:32:51,760 --> 00:32:53,640
Speaker 4: processed each claim one by one.

563
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 10: My debt has been discharged, but my sister, who went

564
00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:02,960
Speaker 10: to the school at the exact same time as me,

565
00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:10,520
Speaker 10: her debt has yet to be discharged. I'm fighting for

566
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 10: my older sister. I'm fighting for my younger sister. I'm

567
00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:20,440
Speaker 10: fighting for the other students in Corinthian. I'm fighting for everyone,

568
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 10: because until all student loans have been discharged, I'm not

569
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 10: going to stop.

570
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:39,160
Speaker 4: For nearly seven years, since twenty fifteen, Nathan remained involved

571
00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:42,840
Speaker 4: with the Debt Collective, advocating for the cancelation of all

572
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 4: student debt. Then, in June of twenty twenty two, the

573
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 4: Biden administration announced that they would cancel all federal student

574
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 4: debt of former Corinthian College students. That's nearly five hundred

575
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,960
Speaker 4: and sixty thousand borrowers. It's the largest one time discharge

576
00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 4: of debt ever made by the Department of Education. As

577
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 4: soon as he heard the news, Nathan says he texted

578
00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:09,800
Speaker 4: his older sister, Natasha, who had also gone to Everest.

579
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 4: Then a few days later, he gave her a.

580
00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 10: Call, Hey, Tod, how are you doing.

581
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 16: Hello Nathan, I'm doing good. How are you.

582
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,600
Speaker 10: I'm doing well. It's so good to hear from you.

583
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 4: Natasha recalls what she felt when she read Nathan's message.

584
00:34:23,719 --> 00:34:26,280
Speaker 16: I actually got a text from you, and I cried,

585
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:29,239
Speaker 16: I'm not gonna lie. I was just so happy, and

586
00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 16: I was never disappointed or upset that you had got

587
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,880
Speaker 16: your loans forgiven and I hadn't got mine forgiven, because

588
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:39,239
Speaker 16: the whole point of the fight was to not just

589
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,840
Speaker 16: fight for ourselves, but to fight for everybody and for

590
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 16: the people who couldn't get up and fight for themselves.

591
00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 4: Natasha had remained on debt strike since twenty fifteen, and

592
00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,759
Speaker 4: that meant debt collectors wouldn't stop calling her.

593
00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:54,520
Speaker 16: Anytime a debt collector tried to call me, I'd tell

594
00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:56,799
Speaker 16: them it was a fraudulent call, and I would hang

595
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:59,520
Speaker 16: up the phone. I decided to be in the red.

596
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:01,960
Speaker 16: You know, it messes up your credit score when you're

597
00:35:01,960 --> 00:35:03,920
Speaker 16: in debt. So I'm not able to get a car,

598
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 16: I can't buy a house, I can't get property, I

599
00:35:05,719 --> 00:35:08,680
Speaker 16: can't do things to own a business. It did stop me,

600
00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,880
Speaker 16: but it also just made me fight harder.

601
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:16,440
Speaker 4: Now, with her loans finally off her shoulders, Natasha has

602
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,359
Speaker 4: big plans.

603
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 16: I want land, I want a property. I want my

604
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 16: mom to have a business. I want my brother to

605
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,360
Speaker 16: have a business. You know, I can finally set forth

606
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,400
Speaker 16: my actual life. And it took most of my twenties,

607
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,800
Speaker 16: if not all of my twenties to get here, because

608
00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 16: I'm now almost thirty four years old.

609
00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:39,200
Speaker 4: The victory was not only for all Corinthian students. It

610
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,680
Speaker 4: also proved that the government does have the authority to

611
00:35:42,840 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 4: cancel student debt, whereas just ten years ago, any form

612
00:35:46,920 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 4: of debt cancelation seemed out of reach. The strike showed

613
00:35:50,239 --> 00:35:55,560
Speaker 4: activists they could demand an education system completely free of debt, and.

614
00:35:55,520 --> 00:35:57,319
Speaker 10: The only way we can do that is if we

615
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 10: continue to stick together. So I'm really excited to see what's.

616
00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:07,080
Speaker 3: Next coming up on Latino USA.

617
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 2: As the call for the abolition of all student debt intensifies,

618
00:36:12,000 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 2: we look at the way this debt impacts Black and

619
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:29,200
Speaker 2: Latino families across generations. Stay with us, not by yes, hey,

620
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 2: we're back. And before the break, we heard the story

621
00:36:32,680 --> 00:36:36,680
Speaker 2: of a group of former Corinthian College students who launched

622
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:40,319
Speaker 2: what some say is the first student debt strike in

623
00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 2: the US. It lasted for eight years. Finally, in June

624
00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 2: of this year, the federal government erased all their debt.

625
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 3: It's pretty historic.

626
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,840
Speaker 2: It's considered to be the largest one time discharge of

627
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:59,240
Speaker 2: debt ever made by the Department of Education. The strike

628
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,480
Speaker 2: showed the power of students banding together over the issue

629
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,400
Speaker 2: of their debt. But there's still more debt that remains

630
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,880
Speaker 2: for thousands of others, especially black and brown students. Producer

631
00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:15,640
Speaker 2: Julia Rocha takes us now to that fight and asks

632
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 2: why canceling all student debt is an issue of racial

633
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:22,400
Speaker 2: justice across generations.

634
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:26,800
Speaker 4: It's a crisp sunny day in April twenty twenty two,

635
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 4: and there's a lot of movement at the Eisenhower Memorial

636
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:32,880
Speaker 4: in front of the Department of Education in Washington, d C.

637
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 4: Dozens of greyhound buses arrive, carrying hundreds of people from

638
00:37:41,560 --> 00:37:47,640
Speaker 4: all over the country. A brass band keeps everyone dancing.

639
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:52,040
Speaker 4: There's a table with bottled water and granola bars where

640
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:55,799
Speaker 4: people are picking up small red pins with black sharpies.

641
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 4: They write down the amount of student debt they have

642
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:02,880
Speaker 4: and wear it on their chest. Ten thousand dollars, fifty

643
00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 4: thousand dollars, two hundred thousand dollars. Although debt is by

644
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 4: no means an uplifting subject, the energy is joyful, a

645
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 4: reminder that the number on your pin is not yours

646
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,479
Speaker 4: to carry alone. The action was organized by the Debt

647
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 4: Collective with support from seventy other organizations and people are

648
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 4: here demanding that President Joe Biden cancel all student debt.

649
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:33,520
Speaker 4: There are students who, like Nathan, were scammed by for

650
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:37,319
Speaker 4: profit schools. I also met many students and graduates of

651
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,640
Speaker 4: public and private universities. The black, brown, and Indigenous people

652
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:45,680
Speaker 4: at the rally spoke about student debt as an intergenerational issue,

653
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 4: one that has ties to both the past and the future.

654
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,719
Speaker 17: My name is doctor Sophia Mayanovich. I am from the

655
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 17: Fort peck Ochetti, Shakawi and the Sitaboyne tribes up in Montana.

656
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,480
Speaker 17: My sign says, why do I have student debt when

657
00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,720
Speaker 17: the eighteen sixty eight Fort Laramie Treaty guaranteed me free

658
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 17: education for colonial occupation.

659
00:39:08,960 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 4: People also spoke about how debt keeps them from building

660
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:16,960
Speaker 4: wealth across generations over time. In debt, inness grows over generation.

661
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:19,320
Speaker 13: In black family, it's a system where.

662
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 16: Black families pass on in a generational debt and.

663
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 10: The name of the American dreams.

664
00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 4: The large crowd marched until they reached the entrance of

665
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:37,560
Speaker 4: the Department of Education building, blocking the traffic on the street.

666
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,120
Speaker 4: Students took the megaphone and began to share their stories.

667
00:39:41,440 --> 00:39:43,960
Speaker 18: Hey, I'm Caroline with a K, I go buy the

668
00:39:44,080 --> 00:39:47,160
Speaker 18: She pronouns, I'm first generation in college.

669
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,319
Speaker 4: That's Caroline Nova, a twenty year old Dominican American university

670
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,919
Speaker 4: student and organizer with Dream Defenders, a group of black

671
00:39:54,920 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 4: and brown youth organizing against incarceration, police violence, and corporate greed.

672
00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,200
Speaker 4: In one hand, Caroline holds a piece of paper with

673
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,080
Speaker 4: the amount of debt their family has.

674
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 18: My mom took out over one hundred thousand dollars in

675
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,719
Speaker 18: loans and now she's in debt because of it. And

676
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 18: I'm grateful for her because she took it out so

677
00:40:13,160 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 18: I could get a degree that she couldn't get. This

678
00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,439
Speaker 18: is for the black mothers out here.

679
00:40:18,239 --> 00:40:21,960
Speaker 4: Taking a lighter, Caroline burns the piece of paper as

680
00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:26,680
Speaker 4: the crowd cheers. Caroline is currently a student at the

681
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,000
Speaker 4: University of West Florida, a public state school, where they're

682
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 4: studying psychology. They dream of starting their own private practice

683
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 4: to support other non binary and AFROLATINX youth like them.

684
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 4: Since Caroline can remember, college was always important.

685
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:45,239
Speaker 11: My mom never really got to finish college. She came

686
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,480
Speaker 11: out here and like it was more of a survival

687
00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:50,399
Speaker 11: tactic where it was just like I have to work,

688
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,719
Speaker 11: I don't have time to go to school. She came

689
00:40:52,760 --> 00:40:55,520
Speaker 11: here to give me and my sister a better education.

690
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,480
Speaker 4: But even though it was important to their mom, Lucy,

691
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,440
Speaker 4: that Caroline go to school, the process of actually applying

692
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:04,640
Speaker 4: to college felt foreign to both of them.

693
00:41:05,239 --> 00:41:07,680
Speaker 11: Since my mom didn't really go to college, she didn't

694
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,279
Speaker 11: have the knowledge as to what I should do. I

695
00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 11: didn't know whether or not to take out loans. I

696
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 11: didn't know what the pilgrant was like.

697
00:41:15,120 --> 00:41:16,480
Speaker 15: I literally had to learn it.

698
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:16,919
Speaker 11: On my own.

699
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:20,680
Speaker 4: Feeling lost in the process is common, says Julio Bishop,

700
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:24,239
Speaker 4: the expert on anti racism and student loan policy who

701
00:41:24,280 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 4: we heard from earlier, and he says black and brown

702
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,120
Speaker 4: students are already at a disadvantage even before they signed

703
00:41:31,160 --> 00:41:32,719
Speaker 4: any student loan paperwork.

704
00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:36,600
Speaker 1: I always like to start with the context. Before a

705
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,879
Speaker 1: black or brown student ever signs for a loan, they

706
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,640
Speaker 1: are first living in a history and ongoing reality where

707
00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:47,440
Speaker 1: the United States as a country and government has worked

708
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:51,839
Speaker 1: extra hard to extract both wealth and income from black

709
00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: and LATINX communities. We know a lot of wealth is

710
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,080
Speaker 1: generating this country through generations of only homes and only land.

711
00:41:58,560 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: And while those generations were only their homes and only land,

712
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: black and brown people were working that land and being

713
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: exploited in our land. If black people were picking in

714
00:42:07,719 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: crops in the South, we know out west that the

715
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: LATINX community was being exploited in similar ways.

716
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,839
Speaker 4: Although the University of West Florida is a public university,

717
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 4: Caroline and their mom still had to take out nineteen

718
00:42:19,719 --> 00:42:23,040
Speaker 4: thousand dollars in federal student loans. In order to afford

719
00:42:23,080 --> 00:42:27,040
Speaker 4: the cost of tuition, room and board, Caroline's mom had

720
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,839
Speaker 4: to take out additional private loans to pay for her

721
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 4: house and car while sending Caroline to college. For Caroline

722
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:37,400
Speaker 4: and their family, this debt is not only about accessing

723
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:42,120
Speaker 4: higher education, it threatens their ability to generate intergenerational wealth.

724
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,320
Speaker 4: In this case, Caroline's mom might not be able to

725
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 4: leave behind a house or car for her children.

726
00:42:48,239 --> 00:42:51,040
Speaker 11: She's the first one in her family to own a

727
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 11: house and own her own car, so she wanted to

728
00:42:54,160 --> 00:42:57,080
Speaker 11: make sure that she kept the house in car, so

729
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 11: she took out that big loan to help her pay

730
00:42:59,120 --> 00:43:01,520
Speaker 11: for all of that. When she took that out, I

731
00:43:01,520 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 11: didn't really care. I didn't think anything of it, and

732
00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:05,919
Speaker 11: I was just like, yeah, whatever, you got a wrong, okay,

733
00:43:05,960 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 11: congratulations until she was like telling me her experience and

734
00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 11: she was like, I don't have the money to pay

735
00:43:13,120 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 11: it back, Like you're gonna have to help me pay

736
00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 11: it back. And I was getting stressed because I was like,

737
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,360
Speaker 11: I don't even have nobody to pay it back, Like

738
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 11: how are we going to pay this back?

739
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 15: Right now?

740
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:23,280
Speaker 4: Right as Caroline was finishing their sophomore year of school.

741
00:43:23,640 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 4: They called their mom Lucy in Tallahassee, Florida.

742
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 12: Hey mommy, hi baby.

743
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 11: How does student loan impact your like day to day basis?

744
00:43:34,760 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 12: As a parent, you go ahead and you take that

745
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 12: loan for your child because you want to help them

746
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 12: be successful. Always said that takes money out of the household.

747
00:43:43,680 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 12: We have to retire if you're gonna eat meat today,

748
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 12: or if we're just gonna eat plain white rise. And

749
00:43:50,400 --> 00:43:52,600
Speaker 12: that's said to be able to afford going to school.

750
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,920
Speaker 12: It affects you every single day, get bigger and beer

751
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:58,160
Speaker 12: and beer, and it doesn't stuff.

752
00:44:01,000 --> 00:44:03,880
Speaker 4: Caroline's mom worries about how she'll pay it all back,

753
00:44:04,360 --> 00:44:07,800
Speaker 4: especially with the high interest rates. This means that unless

754
00:44:07,800 --> 00:44:10,560
Speaker 4: Caroline's family is able to pay back the full amount

755
00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,880
Speaker 4: right away, their balance will continue to grow every month.

756
00:44:15,760 --> 00:44:18,680
Speaker 4: This is why the push to abolish student debt is

757
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:22,280
Speaker 4: not only about education. Here's Julie Bishop again.

758
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: So we should be able to get the things that

759
00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: we need without having to go into debt. And that's

760
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:31,040
Speaker 1: not just education. That's for healthcare, that is for housing.

761
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 1: That is for us to just make it through our

762
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 1: day to day living expenses without having to take on

763
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:41,600
Speaker 1: a payday loan, or use credit cards, or have medical debt.

764
00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:46,239
Speaker 4: Then, on April twenty eighth, just a few weeks after

765
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:50,600
Speaker 4: the rally where I met Caroline, President Biden made this announcement.

766
00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:55,719
Speaker 9: I am considering dealing with some debt reductions. I am

767
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 9: not considering fifty thousand dollars debt reduction, but I'm in

768
00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:02,200
Speaker 9: the of taking a hard look at whether or not

769
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:05,680
Speaker 9: there are going to there will be additional debt forgiveness,

770
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,120
Speaker 9: and I'll have an answer on that in the next

771
00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 9: couple of weeks.

772
00:45:11,239 --> 00:45:14,040
Speaker 4: The number that's been thrown around most often is ten

773
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 4: thousand dollars of debt cancelation, but many advocates and researchers,

774
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 4: like Julio say this figure doesn't go far enough. In

775
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:24,600
Speaker 4: early May, Juliell testified on the Senate floor.

776
00:45:25,680 --> 00:45:26,680
Speaker 3: So let's make it clear.

777
00:45:27,080 --> 00:45:28,720
Speaker 1: Ten thousand dollars is not enough.

778
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 19: Even fifty thousand dollars is not enough for economic and

779
00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 19: racial justice. Black people, my family, my community are more

780
00:45:35,560 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 19: likely to owe over fifty thousand just for undergrad have

781
00:45:38,680 --> 00:45:41,320
Speaker 19: parents who brought onto the six figures, rely on private

782
00:45:41,360 --> 00:45:44,120
Speaker 19: student loans, and if we ever make six figure income,

783
00:45:44,280 --> 00:45:46,720
Speaker 19: we often have six figure loan debt. So you cannot

784
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:49,200
Speaker 19: limit student debt cancelation and also claim to care about

785
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 19: racial justice. The data is now on your side, people's

786
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:54,160
Speaker 19: life stories are now on your side.

787
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 1: And history will not be on your side. We need

788
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 1: full debt cancelation, and we need it yesterday.

789
00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 3: Thank you to THEE.

790
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 15: I look forward to your questions.

791
00:46:04,719 --> 00:46:07,239
Speaker 4: So I reached out to the Department of Education and

792
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 4: spoke with Ashley Harrington, senior advisor in Federal Student Aid,

793
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 4: about the student debt crisis and how it impacts black

794
00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:16,319
Speaker 4: and brown borrowers. In particular.

795
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 13: Anything that we do on student loans has a disproportionate

796
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,000
Speaker 13: impact on black and brown borrowers because these are the

797
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,040
Speaker 13: bars that are struggling the most. We have changes and

798
00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 13: improvements that we need to make, and this is an

799
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 13: effort that is not just the work of the Department

800
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:33,720
Speaker 13: or the administration, but the work of lawmakers and policymakers

801
00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 13: at all levels of government.

802
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 4: Although Ashley says the Department of Education is focused on

803
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 4: making improvements to the student loan system with regards to

804
00:46:42,600 --> 00:46:45,680
Speaker 4: student debt abolition, she says the hands of the Department

805
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:48,880
Speaker 4: are tied until the President announces his decision.

806
00:46:49,040 --> 00:46:52,200
Speaker 13: So without any decisions on Broadbay's cancelation and what that

807
00:46:52,200 --> 00:46:54,399
Speaker 13: will look like and what it will encompass, I will

808
00:46:54,480 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 13: just say we implement the policy decisions that are made.

809
00:46:57,239 --> 00:47:00,200
Speaker 13: Higher education isn't going away. Will Stoe loan program it

810
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:03,080
Speaker 13: going away? And so there is definitely always going to

811
00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 13: be a need to support students to manage the system,

812
00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:07,960
Speaker 13: and so we are concentrating on continuing to do that

813
00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:09,359
Speaker 13: better every day.

814
00:47:09,719 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 4: Ashley says. The department is focused on programs that help

815
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:16,759
Speaker 4: borrowers manage their debt, such as income based repayment programs

816
00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 4: and public service loan forgiveness, But many advocates that I

817
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 4: spoke to say these measures are not only ineffective and

818
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:26,440
Speaker 4: difficult to enroll in, they also don't prevent students from

819
00:47:26,520 --> 00:47:27,359
Speaker 4: going into debt.

820
00:47:27,800 --> 00:47:30,719
Speaker 13: The concern about the higher ucation funding model and how

821
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:34,000
Speaker 13: it's primarily a debt finance model is absolute something that

822
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,640
Speaker 13: we hear all the time. But we at the Department

823
00:47:36,719 --> 00:47:39,160
Speaker 13: Education are just focused on this is how students pay

824
00:47:39,160 --> 00:47:41,000
Speaker 13: for college. How can we make it so that these

825
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:42,960
Speaker 13: loans are not a burden for the rest of their

826
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:45,719
Speaker 13: lives and that higher education is actually that step up

827
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,759
Speaker 13: instead of that huge burden that holds them back.

828
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 4: But Jalil says he believes the government does have the

829
00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,839
Speaker 4: power and the resources to restructure the system.

830
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,200
Speaker 1: The government's already spending eighty to one hundred billion dollars

831
00:47:58,239 --> 00:48:01,239
Speaker 1: a year issuing student loans. What happens if they just

832
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:03,600
Speaker 1: issue it as a grant and then we start to

833
00:48:03,640 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 1: realize so it's not a question of where do we

834
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,560
Speaker 1: get the money from. The money's already here. We just

835
00:48:07,640 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 1: have to stop. Decided to also throw on top of

836
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: that money money for the loan servicers and the debt

837
00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 1: collectors and the private law firms. That the money is

838
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,480
Speaker 1: already being spent, it can just be spent in a

839
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: way that prioritizes the everyday person over corporations.

840
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:28,840
Speaker 4: I asked Caroline if they think about their debt often.

841
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,520
Speaker 4: They mentioned the piece of paper they burned at the

842
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,040
Speaker 4: rally in DC, the one with their debt written on it.

843
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:39,279
Speaker 11: It felt great to burn that paper and let it go.

844
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:41,880
Speaker 11: I'm not thinking about it at all because I'm expecting

845
00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,400
Speaker 11: it to be canceled. I am manifesting it to be

846
00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:50,120
Speaker 11: canceled by not expecting it. That's what I'm doing. Like

847
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,480
Speaker 11: they better know by the time I graduate soon, a

848
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:55,799
Speaker 11: debt better be canceled, like I'm not paying it back.

849
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:58,040
Speaker 11: I will personally go up to Joe Biden and tell

850
00:48:58,080 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 11: him like I'm not paying it back.

851
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:04,200
Speaker 4: Even though partial debt cancelation could come as a relief

852
00:49:04,239 --> 00:49:06,840
Speaker 4: for many, it still wouldn't get at the root of

853
00:49:06,880 --> 00:49:11,839
Speaker 4: the issue that financing education through debt keeps people, particularly

854
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:15,160
Speaker 4: black and brown students, from seeking the education they want

855
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 4: and ultimately from living the life they want. Caroline believes

856
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,600
Speaker 4: in the power of imagining a future beyond debt. They

857
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:28,000
Speaker 4: brought this up with their mom Lucy on their phone call.

858
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,640
Speaker 11: Imagine your life without student loans or any loans.

859
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:38,000
Speaker 12: How would your life be? Oh, my gosh, absolutely fantastic.

860
00:49:38,640 --> 00:49:44,520
Speaker 12: There is nothing more stressful saying all in money, because

861
00:49:44,920 --> 00:49:48,880
Speaker 12: when you removed that much debt out of your system

862
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,759
Speaker 12: and you can get concentrate on what your next set

863
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,800
Speaker 12: will be, or how you finished shape your dreams.

864
00:49:56,719 --> 00:50:00,880
Speaker 4: Reaching those dreams, dreams that have been generations in the making,

865
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 4: Caroline's mom says, would be priceless.

866
00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:20,399
Speaker 2: This episode was produced by Julia Roch and edited by

867
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 2: Daisy Contreras. It was mixed by Gabriel Abiez and JJ Carubin.

868
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:29,719
Speaker 2: Fact checking for this episode by Monica Morales Garcia special

869
00:50:29,840 --> 00:50:34,360
Speaker 2: thanks to Braxton Bruington and the Debt Collective. The Latino

870
00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:39,200
Speaker 2: USA team includes Andrea Lopez Russado, Marta Martinez, Mike Sergeant,

871
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:44,839
Speaker 2: Julieta Martinelli, Victoria Strada, Renaldo Leanos, Junior Alejandra Salasad and

872
00:50:44,960 --> 00:50:49,160
Speaker 2: Patricia Sulbarand with help from Raoul Berees. Our editorial director

873
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,959
Speaker 2: is Jujo Ricardorella. Our director of Engineering is Stephanie Levo.

874
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:57,080
Speaker 2: Our senior engineer is Julia Caruso. Our marketing manager is

875
00:50:57,160 --> 00:51:01,520
Speaker 2: Luis Luna. Our theme music was composed Rubinos. I'm your

876
00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:04,680
Speaker 2: host and executive producer marieo Hosa. Join us again for

877
00:51:04,719 --> 00:51:06,799
Speaker 2: our next episode and look for us on all of

878
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 2: your social media and remember montdayes Dao.

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Speaker 8: Latino USA is made possible in part by California Endowment

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Speaker 8: building a strong state by improving the health of all Californians.

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Speaker 8: The chan Zuckerberg Initiative and funding for Latino USA is

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Speaker 8: Coverage of a culture of health is made possible in

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Speaker 8: part by a grant from the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation.

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Speaker 10: You know we're here together, here for you.

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Speaker 2: Don racist Dade always, GNNA come