1
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:08,480
Speaker 1: This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keene, along

2
00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:12,319
Speaker 1: with Jonathan Farrell and Lisa Abramowitz. Join us each day

3
00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:16,840
Speaker 1: for insight from the best an economics, geopolitics, finance and investment.

4
00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:22,079
Speaker 1: Subscribe to Bloomberg Surveillance on demand on Apple, Spotify and

5
00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:26,600
Speaker 1: anywhere you get your podcasts, and always on Bloomberg dot Com,

6
00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:29,840
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Terminal, and the Bloomberg Business app.

7
00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,120
Speaker 2: Joining us now from Washington is Jully Sue, the Acting

8
00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:36,480
Speaker 2: US Labor Secretary, Acting Labor Secretary wander for to catch

9
00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:38,000
Speaker 2: up with you, it always is. I want to go

10
00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,360
Speaker 2: back to eight thirty, just briefly, if we can. I

11
00:00:40,440 --> 00:00:43,480
Speaker 2: got a lot of feedback at eight thirty Eastern time

12
00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,559
Speaker 2: about not being able to access the BLS website to

13
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,879
Speaker 2: get this information, to get this data. I'm told that

14
00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:51,879
Speaker 2: the message they got on the screen was you were

15
00:00:51,920 --> 00:00:54,920
Speaker 2: blocked from the BLS website. What was going on at

16
00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:56,480
Speaker 2: eight thirty? What was the difficulty?

17
00:00:58,280 --> 00:01:00,480
Speaker 3: I don't know what happened with the website.

18
00:01:00,520 --> 00:01:03,960
Speaker 4: I will say that our jobs numbers today show that

19
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:07,639
Speaker 4: one hundred and ninety nine thousand jobs were added last month.

20
00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,000
Speaker 4: That we have the lowest unemployment rate for the longest

21
00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:14,840
Speaker 4: period of time since Diana Ross was at the top

22
00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:19,920
Speaker 4: of the charts, and it reflects continued steady growth in

23
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,839
Speaker 4: our economy. I'm sorry to hear that you weren't able

24
00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:25,440
Speaker 4: to get that, but I'm happy to talk about any

25
00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:26,120
Speaker 4: of the data.

26
00:01:25,880 --> 00:01:26,440
Speaker 3: That's come out.

27
00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,760
Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about it coming out next month, and

28
00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,720
Speaker 2: the month after that and a month after that. Can

29
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:34,720
Speaker 2: we revisit the lockup, Julie and have a lockup and

30
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:37,440
Speaker 2: make sure this data gets out efficiently and effectively, given

31
00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:40,240
Speaker 2: it's probably the most important data point on the planet.

32
00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:45,400
Speaker 4: I completely agree on the importance of the data. You know,

33
00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,760
Speaker 4: we come out to talk about it every time because

34
00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:52,000
Speaker 4: it demonstrates the health of the economy.

35
00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:53,560
Speaker 3: It demonstrates, you.

36
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,240
Speaker 4: Know, whether our economic policies are working. And what we've

37
00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:00,600
Speaker 4: seen is steadily since President Biden came into office, fourteen

38
00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:05,680
Speaker 4: point one million jobs created, again broad based across numerous sectors,

39
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:10,359
Speaker 4: low unemployment rates, and real wages rising. So we're very

40
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:12,280
Speaker 4: happy to make sure that you were getting the information

41
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,600
Speaker 4: that you need to help us tell the story about

42
00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:17,080
Speaker 4: the impact of Bidenomics across the country.

43
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:18,720
Speaker 2: You really don't want to talk about this to you.

44
00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:21,480
Speaker 3: No, no, I'm not trying to avoid it.

45
00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:24,920
Speaker 4: I obviously believe that the data has to be available,

46
00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:25,840
Speaker 4: but it's not.

47
00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:28,160
Speaker 2: To all of you, and it wasn't, So how can

48
00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:29,440
Speaker 2: we fix that for next month?

49
00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:32,359
Speaker 3: I hear you on that.

50
00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,440
Speaker 2: Okay, maybe you should can respond to me in the

51
00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,480
Speaker 2: future at some point in the next week or so,

52
00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:39,760
Speaker 2: and I can share that answer to our listeners and

53
00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:42,320
Speaker 2: our viewers. Let's talk about the data. On the surface,

54
00:02:42,360 --> 00:02:45,080
Speaker 2: it looks great. This is from Catholic Economics this morning.

55
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,320
Speaker 2: The response from them this morning, just going beneath the surface,

56
00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:51,359
Speaker 2: respectable organization saying this. The one ninety nine increase in

57
00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,800
Speaker 2: November payroll employment included forty seven workers forty seven thousand

58
00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,720
Speaker 2: workers returning from strikes, stripping out that one off boost.

59
00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:00,720
Speaker 2: The one fifty two game was roughly the same as

60
00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,520
Speaker 2: the mutant increase in October. Moreover, of that one fifty two,

61
00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:07,359
Speaker 2: forty nine thousand, with government jobs a further seventy seven

62
00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:10,920
Speaker 2: k in healthcare. Excluding those non cyclical sectors, the economy

63
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,960
Speaker 2: added only twenty six thousand jobs, which adds to the

64
00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,560
Speaker 2: evidence that after a very strong third quarter, growth is

65
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:20,760
Speaker 2: slowing to a crawl. In the fourth quarter, Ginny, what

66
00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:21,480
Speaker 2: would you make of that?

67
00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:26,200
Speaker 4: I think what we're seeing is, again we look at

68
00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:30,040
Speaker 4: overall trends in the economy. We've seen job growth at

69
00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:33,000
Speaker 4: record rates, certainly faster than anybody predicted coming out of

70
00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:35,720
Speaker 4: the pandemic. But it wasn't just like you know, one

71
00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:38,640
Speaker 4: time boost in the immediate post pandemic months. It's been

72
00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:44,760
Speaker 4: year over year growth. We're also seeing it across numerous industries,

73
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,720
Speaker 4: and we're seeing it in you know, overall, right, over

74
00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:52,040
Speaker 4: eight hundred thousand jobs created in construction, over six hundred

75
00:03:52,080 --> 00:03:56,760
Speaker 4: thousand in manufacturing since President Biden came into office. And yes,

76
00:03:56,920 --> 00:03:59,840
Speaker 4: we also saw workers come back on the payroll after

77
00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:05,000
Speaker 4: strikes that resulted in record wage increases and other kinds

78
00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:10,000
Speaker 4: of benefits, retirement benefits, health benefits that we really associate

79
00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:11,840
Speaker 4: with what we want for working people.

80
00:04:11,960 --> 00:04:12,080
Speaker 1: Right.

81
00:04:12,120 --> 00:04:15,160
Speaker 4: It's what gives families a sense of security. It's what

82
00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,239
Speaker 4: gives individuals what the President always talks about, which.

83
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:18,960
Speaker 3: Is some breathing room.

84
00:04:19,480 --> 00:04:22,000
Speaker 4: And that's the kind of economy that we want to

85
00:04:22,040 --> 00:04:24,360
Speaker 4: build that we are seeing. We have more work to do,

86
00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:26,760
Speaker 4: and we'll continue to build on the progress that we've made.

87
00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,760
Speaker 4: Many of the investments that the President has helped to

88
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:33,880
Speaker 4: make possible are showing up in communities. Forty thousand some

89
00:04:33,960 --> 00:04:38,040
Speaker 4: infrastructure projects across four thy five hundred communities all across

90
00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,640
Speaker 4: the country. But we're just beginning with that, and so

91
00:04:40,680 --> 00:04:43,239
Speaker 4: we'll continue to see more of that, and the jobs

92
00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:48,960
Speaker 4: numbers are just another indicator of that growth and what

93
00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:50,039
Speaker 4: its impact means.

94
00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,039
Speaker 2: What do you think this is not resonating with the

95
00:04:52,080 --> 00:04:54,680
Speaker 2: elector our share and pos CNN more than four and

96
00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:57,960
Speaker 2: ten saying that seriously concerned rising costs could push them

97
00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,400
Speaker 2: at their own community Splimberg together with Morning Conso only

98
00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:04,440
Speaker 2: thirty five percent of voters in seven swing states trust

99
00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,200
Speaker 2: Binden on the economy. Where's that disconnect coming from?

100
00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:09,120
Speaker 5: Right?

101
00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,240
Speaker 4: So one thing President Biden does talk a lot about

102
00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,359
Speaker 4: to your point, is we want to make sure that

103
00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,440
Speaker 4: there are jobs in communities so people can get jobs

104
00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:19,840
Speaker 4: and build, you know, build a family, and join the

105
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,239
Speaker 4: middle class without leaving the place that.

106
00:05:22,080 --> 00:05:25,760
Speaker 3: They work they live. I was with.

107
00:05:25,760 --> 00:05:28,560
Speaker 4: Him when we went to Velvedere, Illinois, where a plant

108
00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:32,120
Speaker 4: that had been shuttered is now being reopened because of

109
00:05:32,200 --> 00:05:35,840
Speaker 4: the agreement between the UAW and the Big Three.

110
00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,560
Speaker 3: I do think some of this is still you know,

111
00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:42,080
Speaker 3: we had global uh you.

112
00:05:42,040 --> 00:05:45,760
Speaker 4: Know, pandemic, and you know, and the economic wreckage that

113
00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:48,240
Speaker 4: resulted immediately in the aftermath of that.

114
00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:49,680
Speaker 3: Again, we've grown back.

115
00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:52,560
Speaker 4: From it, but the sense of insecurity I think remains,

116
00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:54,359
Speaker 4: and that's that's legitimate.

117
00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:55,640
Speaker 3: The other thing.

118
00:05:55,680 --> 00:05:57,320
Speaker 4: I you know, just from traveling on the country and

119
00:05:57,360 --> 00:05:59,800
Speaker 4: talking to folks, is I think that part of this

120
00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:05,120
Speaker 4: is that people really do see there's jobs being created,

121
00:06:05,160 --> 00:06:07,880
Speaker 4: there's training programs that are connecting them to those jobs.

122
00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,360
Speaker 4: But there remains deep inequities in our society. And part

123
00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:15,159
Speaker 4: of that is the huge gap between CEO pay and

124
00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:17,919
Speaker 4: frontline worker pay. So I talked about Diana Ross, I

125
00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:21,080
Speaker 4: talked about the good news that we are having unemployment

126
00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:25,360
Speaker 4: levels at record lows for the longest stretches since nineteen seventy.

127
00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,640
Speaker 4: In nineteen seventy, the disparity between CEO pay and frontline

128
00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,400
Speaker 4: pay was something like twenty percent.

129
00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,920
Speaker 3: Today it's over.

130
00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:40,480
Speaker 4: It was seventeen times hire the ceopay from worker pay.

131
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,039
Speaker 4: Today it's something like three hundred and forty four times.

132
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:46,160
Speaker 4: That doesn't feel fair to people, it doesn't feel good,

133
00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,240
Speaker 4: and that's why President Biden talks about building an economy

134
00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,239
Speaker 4: from the middle out and the bottom up, where working

135
00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:56,480
Speaker 4: people and working families do well, not just the wealthy.

136
00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:58,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's had a lot to say about corporate America

137
00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:00,359
Speaker 2: as well. I'm going to share a tweet from the

138
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,520
Speaker 2: President with you, and I want your thoughts on it.

139
00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:05,280
Speaker 2: A way to translate it if you can, because I

140
00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,240
Speaker 2: don't understand it. It says, let me be clear, to

141
00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:10,040
Speaker 2: any corporation that hasn't brought their prices back down even

142
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:12,640
Speaker 2: as inflation has come down, it's time to stop the

143
00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:16,200
Speaker 2: price gouging. Give American consumers a break. What is the

144
00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:17,520
Speaker 2: president talking about.

145
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:23,000
Speaker 4: The President is saying that we have a job to

146
00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:28,280
Speaker 4: do this country, and we want working people and middle

147
00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,200
Speaker 4: class families and every community across the country to have

148
00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:35,120
Speaker 4: for things that they need to live a decent life.

149
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,560
Speaker 3: We want safe roads and new bridges.

150
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,960
Speaker 4: We want clean drinking water to flow out of every

151
00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:40,960
Speaker 4: Fara's great.

152
00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:44,080
Speaker 2: I want that too, But just this tweet specifically, inflation

153
00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,720
Speaker 2: is slowly but it's still positive, so prices are going up.

154
00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:49,520
Speaker 2: But the President's saying inflation has come down, why corporation

155
00:07:49,600 --> 00:07:54,080
Speaker 2: is still price gouging. That's just economically speaking, just absolutely flawed.

156
00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:57,480
Speaker 2: So Acting Labor Secretary who writes these tweets, what's he

157
00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:58,200
Speaker 2: talking about.

158
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:01,240
Speaker 4: I mean, he's saying that we're all in this together,

159
00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:05,240
Speaker 4: and we will pursue economic policies that help to bring

160
00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:06,760
Speaker 4: down prices and control inflation.

161
00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:08,560
Speaker 3: But everyone's got a job to do on that.

162
00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:13,320
Speaker 4: And you know, when there are record profits by companies

163
00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:18,080
Speaker 4: who are continuing to keep prices high, we'd like them

164
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,800
Speaker 4: to play their role in making sure that people can

165
00:08:21,040 --> 00:08:22,559
Speaker 4: afford the basics they need in life.

166
00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:26,440
Speaker 2: Appreciate it. JNS. Thank you, the Acting us LEBIS Sancitary.

167
00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:40,560
Speaker 1: We continue our conversation with Michael Darta, chief economist macro

168
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:45,200
Speaker 1: strategist at Roth mkm Michael, once again, it is a

169
00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:51,200
Speaker 1: confounding report of somewhat towards a fully employed America. Is

170
00:08:51,240 --> 00:08:55,960
Speaker 1: this the productivity overlay? Is this the technology overlay in

171
00:08:56,040 --> 00:09:00,000
Speaker 1: the non technological sectors where things are just simply better

172
00:09:00,000 --> 00:09:00,959
Speaker 1: mother than we perceive.

173
00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 6: Well, it's hard to say, Tom. I mean, the productivity

174
00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:06,560
Speaker 6: statistics have been really strong over the last two quarters,

175
00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,880
Speaker 6: but they were insanely weak before that. So on productivity,

176
00:09:10,920 --> 00:09:15,360
Speaker 6: we just vaulted back to the to the pre pandemic

177
00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:19,760
Speaker 6: trend so far, which was one point six percent per annum,

178
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,600
Speaker 6: so to be determined on that question, this is a

179
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:25,080
Speaker 6: good report, you know, almost two hundred k with the

180
00:09:25,120 --> 00:09:29,120
Speaker 6: downward revisions you know, were added just below the consensus expectation.

181
00:09:29,360 --> 00:09:32,440
Speaker 6: But we were talking about the unemployment rate moving up

182
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:35,280
Speaker 6: to the cusp of a recession signal. Now we've pulled

183
00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:38,719
Speaker 6: back to three seven on the unemployment rate. So this

184
00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,000
Speaker 6: is a report the Fed is going to look at

185
00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:43,720
Speaker 6: and not really feel compelled that they need to embrace

186
00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:46,360
Speaker 6: these early rate cuts next year that the market has

187
00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,880
Speaker 6: priced in. Now, this could change again, and you know

188
00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:54,040
Speaker 6: with the December data obviously, but at face value, strong report,

189
00:09:54,320 --> 00:09:57,520
Speaker 6: almost two hundred k on payrolls, unemployment ticks by two

190
00:09:57,600 --> 00:09:59,720
Speaker 6: tents to three seven. That's going to be viewed as

191
00:09:59,720 --> 00:10:03,600
Speaker 6: still a very tight fully employed labor market. And so

192
00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:06,640
Speaker 6: you know, it makes sense that we're seeing a bit

193
00:10:06,679 --> 00:10:09,240
Speaker 6: of risk off here and a bit of a bounce.

194
00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:09,920
Speaker 3: In bond yields.

195
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:13,160
Speaker 7: Michael, does this make you rethink any of your thesis

196
00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:14,600
Speaker 7: about the business cycle rolling over?

197
00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:19,440
Speaker 6: Not so far. I mean, certainly it's not a you know,

198
00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,480
Speaker 6: it's not an additive decisive signal. It Okay, this is

199
00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,760
Speaker 6: you know, if we're up at you know, up above

200
00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,080
Speaker 6: four in the you know for this report, then you know,

201
00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:32,320
Speaker 6: to me, that would suggest that perhaps we've fallen into recession.

202
00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:35,880
Speaker 6: So this says we're not in recession right now, but

203
00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:39,960
Speaker 6: it's not necessarily an all clear signal for for next

204
00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:40,600
Speaker 6: year either.

205
00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:44,319
Speaker 1: Michael, you've followed with Bloomberg data your economics into your

206
00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:47,760
Speaker 1: equity coverage. What's the data SPX call for when you're

207
00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:48,840
Speaker 1: fifty one years old?

208
00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:50,200
Speaker 8: Yeah?

209
00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:54,160
Speaker 6: Tom, You know, we were talking before about the market

210
00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,720
Speaker 6: really being dominated by two sectors and seven stocks, so

211
00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:00,840
Speaker 6: you know, I think for the overall it's five hundred.

212
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:04,800
Speaker 6: We're going to have a challenging period. The valuations in

213
00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:07,600
Speaker 6: these leading sectors are simply too high, So I think

214
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,640
Speaker 6: investors are going to have to look to some other

215
00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:13,520
Speaker 6: areas that have been underperforming where the valuations are low

216
00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:17,080
Speaker 6: will have opportunities with rising volatility next year.

217
00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,559
Speaker 1: Michael Darter, thank you so much. With Roth MKM. This

218
00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:30,120
Speaker 1: job's Dave Jeffrey Rosenberg's portfolio manager for the Systematic Multi

219
00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:34,360
Speaker 1: Strategy Fund at black Rock. Jeff with great respect, what's

220
00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:39,240
Speaker 1: the strategy that works forward given the treacherous economic water

221
00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:39,960
Speaker 1: as we weighed.

222
00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:43,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, this is a this is a good report, and

223
00:11:43,960 --> 00:11:47,640
Speaker 5: as you know we've been discussing, you know, across the board,

224
00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,360
Speaker 5: it's a bit stronger than expected.

225
00:11:49,400 --> 00:11:50,360
Speaker 4: You know, maybe not on the.

226
00:11:50,320 --> 00:11:54,000
Speaker 5: Headline payrolls, but certainly underneath. And I think that he

227
00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:55,839
Speaker 5: really is going to push back, and I think that's

228
00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,319
Speaker 5: why you've seen the market reaction. The initial market reaction

229
00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:03,120
Speaker 5: that you just just just describe is markets, bond markets

230
00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,360
Speaker 5: in particular, really starting to price in a lot of

231
00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,400
Speaker 5: cuts into next year and pricing.

232
00:12:09,040 --> 00:12:10,559
Speaker 1: Them earlier and earlier.

233
00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:14,199
Speaker 5: Three point seven percent on employment rate. Hard to see

234
00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:20,000
Speaker 5: where the restriction, the restrictiveness is coming for this FED policy.

235
00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,040
Speaker 5: So I think you're going to have a little bit

236
00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,440
Speaker 5: of pushback in that narrative and that you're not really

237
00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:27,520
Speaker 5: seeing the slow down, particularly again with the wage picture.

238
00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:30,480
Speaker 5: You know, most of the support here is coming from

239
00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:32,960
Speaker 5: the inflation side, and we'll have that conversation next week,

240
00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,160
Speaker 5: but on the growth side, you know, you're really not

241
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,400
Speaker 5: seeing the level of restrictiveness show up yet in the

242
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,880
Speaker 5: labor markets, and I think that's going to push back

243
00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:43,240
Speaker 5: on how quickly the FED is going to be able

244
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:47,200
Speaker 5: to to cut rates to keep up with the fall

245
00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:53,160
Speaker 5: and inflation and avoid you know, the unintended increase in real.

246
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 1: Real rate and the Jeff's observation, Lisa, I miss this

247
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:58,760
Speaker 1: stunning the Bloomberg financial conditions index. I'm going to use

248
00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:03,280
Speaker 1: this word carefully. It's explodes to an accommodate of point

249
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:05,719
Speaker 1: six y two. It's Greek, right. All you got to

250
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,320
Speaker 1: know is explodes the right word. This is what Powell

251
00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:10,000
Speaker 1: does not want to see.

252
00:13:09,720 --> 00:13:11,959
Speaker 7: Although he didn't push back as much as some people thought,

253
00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:15,160
Speaker 7: at least last week in his speech. But you're right

254
00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:18,080
Speaker 7: to that point, Jeff, when you say the inflation is

255
00:13:18,120 --> 00:13:20,760
Speaker 7: really the front in the front minds of people who

256
00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:24,000
Speaker 7: are betting on this Goldilock's narrative and even rate cuts

257
00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,280
Speaker 7: without the pain. I wonder how much their view is

258
00:13:27,360 --> 00:13:31,320
Speaker 7: damaged by average hourly earnings rising more than expected and

259
00:13:31,400 --> 00:13:33,920
Speaker 7: rising from the prior month. How much does that suggest

260
00:13:33,960 --> 00:13:36,880
Speaker 7: a stickiness to the labor market strength and wage growth

261
00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,800
Speaker 7: that really flies against this narrative of FED rate cuts

262
00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:41,440
Speaker 7: next year.

263
00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,720
Speaker 5: A little bit, and there certainly goes in the opposite direction.

264
00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,440
Speaker 5: But what you've had on the inflation side is really

265
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,000
Speaker 5: this psychotomy between goods and services, and it's the goods

266
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:56,040
Speaker 5: part that has really been the disinflation that's fueling the

267
00:13:56,080 --> 00:14:00,760
Speaker 5: overall enthusiasm for the cuts into next year. The services

268
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,040
Speaker 5: side is held up, and services inflation is really the

269
00:14:04,080 --> 00:14:07,800
Speaker 5: mapping of today's labor report and the wage picture into

270
00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:11,400
Speaker 5: the broader inflation and so that you know, remains very supportive.

271
00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:15,360
Speaker 5: So again it's kind of the easy disinflation is behind us.

272
00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:20,880
Speaker 5: This report kind of supports continued support for the broad

273
00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,440
Speaker 5: inflation picture from the services side, and that debate I

274
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,360
Speaker 5: think will will continue. And obviously what you've seen in

275
00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,640
Speaker 5: the market is a little bit of pullback in terms

276
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,000
Speaker 5: of the enthusiasm. You know, as Jonathan says, the first

277
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,920
Speaker 5: reaction isn't necessarily the end reaction. But I do think

278
00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:39,040
Speaker 5: the overall take from this report and the wage picture

279
00:14:39,160 --> 00:14:43,920
Speaker 5: is again very strong. Labor market supportive of services inflation. Yes,

280
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:46,280
Speaker 5: it's still coming down, but most of that is being

281
00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:49,360
Speaker 5: driven by the good side. You're not seeing that supported

282
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,360
Speaker 5: as much from the services side.

283
00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:51,560
Speaker 8: You know.

284
00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,480
Speaker 7: Priam Israe of JP Morgan earlier this morning said does

285
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,480
Speaker 7: it matter? She raised this question, does it matter how

286
00:14:57,560 --> 00:15:01,000
Speaker 7: much the Fed cuts rates next year? Considering the fact

287
00:15:01,040 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 7: that it didn't seem to matter how much they raised rates.

288
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,600
Speaker 7: It didn't tighten policy that much. The long lags are

289
00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:09,160
Speaker 7: long in both directions. Do you think that people are

290
00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:12,000
Speaker 7: overestimating whether it matters if they cut rates in March

291
00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:13,600
Speaker 7: or if they cut rates in June, or if they

292
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:16,760
Speaker 7: cut rates in September, if they have stopped raising rates,

293
00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,000
Speaker 7: and if right now what you're seeing as an economy

294
00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:23,280
Speaker 7: that still is chugging along a business is still hiring, well.

295
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,160
Speaker 5: I think the question is does it matter for the

296
00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:28,760
Speaker 5: real economy or does it matter for the financial economy.

297
00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,400
Speaker 5: I think the points well taken in terms of the

298
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:36,800
Speaker 5: sensitivity of the economy to interest rates is a different

299
00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,840
Speaker 5: question than the sensitivity to financial markets. And I think

300
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:43,080
Speaker 5: on the ladder the financial market it matters. It matters

301
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,480
Speaker 5: a lot. And I think that easing in financial conditions

302
00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:48,000
Speaker 5: that you're just talking about has everything to do with

303
00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,320
Speaker 5: the expectations of soft landing, the collapse in inflation, the

304
00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:55,800
Speaker 5: immaculate disinflation proving out to be correct, and allowing the

305
00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,960
Speaker 5: FED to cut interest rates. That's highly supportive of financial markets.

306
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 5: The real economy point, yes, I would can side that

307
00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:06,760
Speaker 5: may be less significant, but for investors it's gonna be

308
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,320
Speaker 5: the latter. It's gonna be the financial market.

309
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,920
Speaker 1: Jeff. Let's pretend you're in carnegiemail and you've got to

310
00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:15,920
Speaker 1: sum this over from your financial chat over into the

311
00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:21,560
Speaker 1: GDP chat. Does this good labor economy support a more

312
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:24,480
Speaker 1: buoyant assessment of our real GDP?

313
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,040
Speaker 5: Well, I think so, Tom, And I think that's, you know,

314
00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 5: kind of the issue here for the monetary policy outlook

315
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:37,480
Speaker 5: is that there is this question of just what is neutral,

316
00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 5: what is real interest rates? What is restrictive? And we

317
00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:45,080
Speaker 5: think we're there, but you don't know until it shows up.

318
00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:48,720
Speaker 5: And we've had the benefit from the inflation side, but

319
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,680
Speaker 5: the growth side less so. And I think that's been

320
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,960
Speaker 5: the message from labor markets. It's been a steady normalization,

321
00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:01,280
Speaker 5: but we're still seeing very strong labor market prints here,

322
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:05,919
Speaker 5: very strong wages, strong unemployment rates that are not really

323
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:11,720
Speaker 5: consistent with restrictiveness. And that's good from the growth side,

324
00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,359
Speaker 5: but it may not be good to get that last

325
00:17:14,520 --> 00:17:17,200
Speaker 5: mile of that three percent three and a half percent

326
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,240
Speaker 5: inflation down to the two percent target.

327
00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,960
Speaker 1: Jeff, Thank you. Jeffrey Rosenberg most often with us here

328
00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,840
Speaker 1: on Jobs Day with Blackrock and his good work in

329
00:17:26,600 --> 00:17:39,639
Speaker 1: shorter term paper as well. What we're going to do

330
00:17:39,680 --> 00:17:44,280
Speaker 1: now is wrap around that important Washington interview with the

331
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,560
Speaker 1: interview that matters for Global Wall Street Jerome Schneider, legendary

332
00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:52,200
Speaker 1: at PIMCO in the short term paper space, and we're

333
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:56,760
Speaker 1: thrilled he could join us this morning. Jerome, not so

334
00:17:56,880 --> 00:18:00,840
Speaker 1: much what this job report does. How hard is it

335
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 1: to manage the risks of short term paper right now?

336
00:18:04,640 --> 00:18:08,040
Speaker 8: Good morning, Good morning Tom, and good morning Manus. The

337
00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:10,280
Speaker 8: reality is is that a lot of clients are in

338
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,919
Speaker 8: positioned to be pretty defensive in twenty twenty three. And

339
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,240
Speaker 8: I guess when you see this latest data, we find

340
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,080
Speaker 8: ourselves in a confluence of events which the outlook will

341
00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,600
Speaker 8: continue to recalibrate. The issue with short term paper really

342
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:25,160
Speaker 8: is it's quite attractive, and that issue is one where

343
00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:29,359
Speaker 8: investors may define balance between harvesting the attractive yields at

344
00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:31,520
Speaker 8: the front of the R curve with the opportunity set

345
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:34,080
Speaker 8: to own a little bit of interest rate exposure and

346
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,200
Speaker 8: income further out the curve, and that challenge will continue

347
00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,480
Speaker 8: to be reconciled as we get into twenty twenty four.

348
00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:42,880
Speaker 8: So that's the prospect where you know the challenge from

349
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,680
Speaker 8: understanding the data and more importantly, the investment the investment landscape. Really,

350
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,080
Speaker 8: it will tend to reconcile any one data point as

351
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,080
Speaker 8: a witness this morning isn't necessarily as important. And the

352
00:18:55,119 --> 00:18:57,800
Speaker 8: Federal Reserve will continue to sort of put the emphasis

353
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,600
Speaker 8: on the longer term views when they meet next week.

354
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,800
Speaker 8: So for investors, they should do the same thing. Take

355
00:19:02,840 --> 00:19:06,320
Speaker 8: a longer term view, Understand the industrates have greatly recalibrated

356
00:19:06,359 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 8: from where we've come from in twenty twenty two, and

357
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 8: more importantly, look at the broader landscape of opportunity sets

358
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:15,600
Speaker 8: that yes, you might have a software economy, but the

359
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,480
Speaker 8: likelihood of a soft landing, while a possibility, isn't a

360
00:19:18,560 --> 00:19:22,400
Speaker 8: high probability, and that pretends to be a fairly attractive

361
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 8: investment outlook for at least for fixed income over the

362
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:25,320
Speaker 8: next twelve months.

363
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:27,760
Speaker 9: Good days here, Jern, good to be on.

364
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:28,320
Speaker 3: Are with you?

365
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,600
Speaker 9: I mean, we're a wonderful line from Mike McKee a

366
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,440
Speaker 9: moment ago where he said, look, you know, the bond

367
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,600
Speaker 9: market traders and salespeople have the attention span of a

368
00:19:36,640 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 9: two year old. Having been slaughtered by the bond market

369
00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:41,280
Speaker 9: in nineteen ninety four. You get moments like this of

370
00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:45,160
Speaker 9: where tens and twos and tens have bolded higher this morning.

371
00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,240
Speaker 9: Is it just a bit of a wake up call

372
00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:50,400
Speaker 9: that the trajectory on rates is not one way, It's

373
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:52,920
Speaker 9: not a collapsing falling knife all the way. There will

374
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 9: be moments of interruptions which present opportunity.

375
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:59,560
Speaker 8: Well, yeah, you're trying to get insight to the practitioners

376
00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 8: frame of mind, and then right, honestly, manness, it's one

377
00:20:02,880 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 8: of those things that from a data dependent point of view, yes,

378
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,400
Speaker 8: the attention span might be one of a two year

379
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 8: old if that's the view you take, and that's why

380
00:20:10,359 --> 00:20:12,440
Speaker 8: we suggest a PIMCO to take a longer term view.

381
00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,439
Speaker 8: The practicality of it is is that the bond market

382
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,560
Speaker 8: has effectively challenged in many ways. The Feds resolve many

383
00:20:19,560 --> 00:20:21,920
Speaker 8: times this year, probably five or six times by my account,

384
00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,960
Speaker 8: and they're going to continue to do so. One of

385
00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:27,880
Speaker 8: the largest challenges will be actually over the next week

386
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:29,919
Speaker 8: as we take a look at the dot plots that

387
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,440
Speaker 8: will be revealed, and that will ultimately suggest that perhaps

388
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,880
Speaker 8: the Fed only suggests a handful of rate cuts versus

389
00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 8: the Feds remaining five plus versus the markets rather five

390
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:42,639
Speaker 8: plus rate cuts that they're expecting, and that is a

391
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,800
Speaker 8: fairly big reconcilation that can have fairly large impacts across

392
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:47,880
Speaker 8: the curve. But where I might have main is, which

393
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:49,040
Speaker 8: is in the front end of the eal curve.

394
00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,360
Speaker 1: How do you respond to risk of reinvestment the idea

395
00:20:52,760 --> 00:20:56,600
Speaker 1: as somebody is picking out a duration and financial advisor site. Oh,

396
00:20:56,760 --> 00:20:59,199
Speaker 1: but the risk of reinvestment, how do you respond to

397
00:20:59,240 --> 00:20:59,680
Speaker 1: that your own?

398
00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 8: Yeah, that's where you have to have a diversified portfolio.

399
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:05,240
Speaker 8: And while there is attraction to be at the front

400
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 8: of the YEO curve, and you know Tom that I'm

401
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,000
Speaker 8: a big proponent of being being in just outside that

402
00:21:10,040 --> 00:21:13,199
Speaker 8: cash landscape of the money markets, the reality is is

403
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,840
Speaker 8: that there are attractive yields both in real terms and

404
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 8: nominal terms at this point in time, and the risk

405
00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:20,960
Speaker 8: of reinvestment is one where you actually want to balance

406
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:22,560
Speaker 8: the income which is a heck of a lot more

407
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:26,000
Speaker 8: attractive right now with the opportunity of capital preservation and

408
00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 8: more importantly, total return, which is going to be emphasized

409
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,560
Speaker 8: by capital appreciation over the course of the next few

410
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,360
Speaker 8: years as spread as spreads normalize and more importantly, as

411
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 8: you perhaps get to an economy which is more supported

412
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:41,720
Speaker 8: by the SAD, which might be in later twenty twenty

413
00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:44,320
Speaker 8: four or twenty five, which means those rate cuts means

414
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:46,920
Speaker 8: bond prices go higher. So that's where you want to

415
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:49,639
Speaker 8: think about that reinvestment risk and sort of takes them

416
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,000
Speaker 8: off the table by moving ever so slightly out of

417
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 8: the YEO curve and adding a little bit of interest

418
00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:54,639
Speaker 8: rate exposure.

419
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:57,000
Speaker 9: Jerom, I'm just trying to work out what kind of

420
00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 9: flow comes into the shoulder end of the curve across

421
00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 9: twenty two twenty four money market funds and you peak

422
00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:06,000
Speaker 9: five point nine trillion dollars much a former bond trader, Well,

423
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,880
Speaker 9: it was a very bad sale. I was a terrible

424
00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:11,080
Speaker 9: crackspread and oil commodity trader, but I didn't do too

425
00:22:11,119 --> 00:22:11,600
Speaker 9: bad for all.

426
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 1: So authentic, I sound like a fool.

427
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:14,000
Speaker 3: You start to floating.

428
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,160
Speaker 9: No, I think you know you get I think we've

429
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,359
Speaker 9: got Pinko on the line here. They're the pros.

430
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,160
Speaker 8: Please please, Well, man, if you sound sound, you sound

431
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 8: a bit of an expert, So maybe we'll take you

432
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:25,480
Speaker 8: for a Maybe you got a.

433
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:27,400
Speaker 9: Job of PIPCO. Listen that that's a long time ago,

434
00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,359
Speaker 9: first Chicago, many many many years ago, money market funds

435
00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 9: five point nine trillion. How much of that flows out

436
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 9: of cash and into the short end of the curve.

437
00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 9: Is that a bump that you.

438
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,639
Speaker 8: Get We begin to see it happen that you know,

439
00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,520
Speaker 8: the effect is going to be the trade off between

440
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,880
Speaker 8: the Fed's outlook, which will be cautious but yet perhaps

441
00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:45,800
Speaker 8: pivoting to that dubbish aspect later on in twenty four

442
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 8: and at the same time, investors still want to harvest

443
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,320
Speaker 8: those high yields, so the resolve of the money market

444
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,080
Speaker 8: fund investors will be actually quite high. We expect that

445
00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,600
Speaker 8: the investors will continue to be in that six proroximately

446
00:22:57,600 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 8: six trillion money market fund for quite some time. But

447
00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:04,480
Speaker 8: we're actually quite quite excited by the fact that investors

448
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 8: are beginning to see that balance, to begin to rationalize

449
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,200
Speaker 8: the risks in a more quantitative way, if you will,

450
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 8: because they're thinking about the volatility in the market, the

451
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,399
Speaker 8: outlook of the market, and realizing that the story of

452
00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:19,440
Speaker 8: capital appreciation, which has been so relevant and prevalent in

453
00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 8: the landscape of risk assets, equities, et cetera for the

454
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,119
Speaker 8: past decade, might be changing, and that might require a

455
00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 8: slightly different allocation.

456
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 1: Jerome Schneider with us with Pimco had a short term

457
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 1: portfolio management. We're thrilled you can find time to stay

458
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: with us on the early West Coast. Subscribe to the

459
00:23:35,640 --> 00:23:39,919
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Surveillance podcast on Apple, Spotify, and anywhere else you

460
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:44,200
Speaker 1: get your podcasts. Listen live every weekday starting at seven

461
00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:49,080
Speaker 1: am Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the iHeartRadio app tune In,

462
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,840
Speaker 1: and the Bloomberg Business app. You can watch us live

463
00:23:53,040 --> 00:23:57,320
Speaker 1: on Bloomberg Television and always on the Bloomberg terminal. Thanks

464
00:23:57,320 --> 00:24:01,120
Speaker 1: for listening. I'm Tom Kane, and this is Bloomber