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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Hey, welcome to Weird House Cinema. This is Rob Lamb and.

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Speaker 3: This is Joe McCormick. And today, as we are recording this,

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Speaker 3: it is May first, the sacred festival of May Day,

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Speaker 3: and so we are going to be talking, in accordance

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Speaker 3: with the season, about the classic nineteen seventy three British

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Speaker 3: film The wicker Man, which is usually usually grouped under

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Speaker 3: a genre people call full corror. Maybe we can quibble

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Speaker 3: in this episode about whether that title should or should

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Speaker 3: not be applied. And also note though we rarely do

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Speaker 3: this on Weird House Cinema, usually we keep it one

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Speaker 3: movie per episode. This is one we think we're going

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Speaker 3: to have to split into two parts because we love

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Speaker 3: the Wickerman and we're going to have a lot to

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Speaker 3: say about it. The only two other movies we've ever

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Speaker 3: done this with before were David Lynch's Doom and Highlander

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Speaker 3: to the Quickening, So putting the Wickerman in there, there

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Speaker 3: is cohesion to this trinity.

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Speaker 2: Yes, these are three films that are often associated with

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Speaker 2: each other, but I do agree like there's a lot

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Speaker 2: to say about the Wickerman. We're probably going to go

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Speaker 2: on and on a bit in a good way, so

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Speaker 2: it's very possible we'll split here.

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Speaker 3: So I'm very excited because The Wickerman is one of

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Speaker 3: my personal favorite movies. In fact, it's a mutual favorite

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Speaker 3: in our house. It's also one of my wife Rachel's

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Speaker 3: all time favorite movies. So we've got a lot of

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Speaker 3: like Wickerman merch in our house. I don't know if

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Speaker 3: you've seen any of that stuff, Rob, but we've got

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Speaker 3: like a Wickerman night light, and.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, I don't think I remember seeing any of this,

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Speaker 2: all right.

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Speaker 3: It's great. Well, it lights up behind the wicker glows.

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Speaker 3: You know, there's kind of an orange glow behind a

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Speaker 3: Wickerman silhouette.

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Speaker 2: I guess.

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Speaker 3: Actually, before we go on to any further detail, there

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Speaker 3: is something I definitely want to say. So in every

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Speaker 3: Weird House Cinema episode we end up discussing the plot

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Speaker 3: of the movie that recovering in some detail. So it's

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Speaker 3: always the case that you should watch the movie first

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Speaker 3: if you don't want to have anything spoiled. But if

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Speaker 3: you've never seen The Wickerman from nineteen seventy three, this

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Speaker 3: in particular is really a film I would recommend going

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Speaker 3: into knowing as little as possible. Obviously, it gets into

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Speaker 3: some horror territory, so if you're sensitive to horror themes,

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Speaker 3: you can look things up ahead of time. But otherwise,

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Speaker 3: if you have a general appetite for horror, I would strongly,

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Speaker 3: strongly encourage you to not even glance at a plot summary,

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Speaker 3: not listen to any more of this episode. Just go

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Speaker 3: ahead and watch it.

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Speaker 2: But then come back and listen to this. Yes.

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Speaker 3: Yes, So the first time I saw it, a friend

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Speaker 3: of mine when I was in college showed it to

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Speaker 3: me without telling telling me anything ahead of time. I'm

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Speaker 3: just really grateful I got to experience it that way.

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Speaker 3: The Wickerman is such an unusual and surprising film. It

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Speaker 3: is full of unexpected humor and horror and delight and despair,

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Speaker 3: and even now, like fifty years later, in a world

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Speaker 3: where a lot of movies you may have already seen

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Speaker 3: have been influenced by The Wickerman. If you haven't seen

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Speaker 3: it before and you don't know everything ahead of time,

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Speaker 3: I think it will keep you very intrigued and puzzled

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Speaker 3: in the best possible way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, It's a film that really stands on its own,

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Speaker 2: even though it is part of the folk car subgenre

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Speaker 2: and is very influential over the full car subgenre. I

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Speaker 2: think that the big three that are often referred to

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Speaker 2: or sixty eights, which finder general seventy one's blood on

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Speaker 2: Satan's Claw, and then of course seventy three is The

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Speaker 2: wicker Man. But at the same time, nothing else is

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Speaker 2: really like The wicker Man, even other movies that have

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Speaker 2: the name the wicker Man. There are remakes of the

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Speaker 2: movie we're talking about here today are nothing like it.

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Speaker 3: We might have to get into the remake in part

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Speaker 3: two here. I think there really just is no other

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Speaker 3: movie like it is its own genre and perhaps still

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Speaker 3: the only movie in that genre. But anyway, if you

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Speaker 3: haven't seen The Wickerman yet and you want to pause

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Speaker 3: here and go watch it so you can, you can

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Speaker 3: see it unspoiled, and then come back, we will give

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Speaker 3: you a little music break, you know.

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Speaker 2: Looking back, I think I saw The wicker Man for

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Speaker 2: the first time, probably like on I think it was

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Speaker 2: A and E. So I saw it on cable. Didn't

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Speaker 2: know what I was getting into, but it instantly loved

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Speaker 2: it and at some point decided, well I need to

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Speaker 2: own this forever. I'm going to buy a special edition

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Speaker 2: VHS of The wicker Man in a big clamshell case. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and I did, and of course it was replaced by

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Speaker 2: DVDs just you know a.

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Speaker 3: Few years later. Did you have the version with the

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Speaker 3: Wooden Box.

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Speaker 2: I did not, but I do remember seeing that at

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Speaker 2: the movie store at the mall. They had all these

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Speaker 2: special editions that one. I'm not sure if that was

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Speaker 2: an Anchor Bay release, but this was a time period

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Speaker 2: during which Anchor Bay was like the source for cool,

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Speaker 2: you know, DVDVHS editions of whatever your favorite genre films

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Speaker 2: happened to be.

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Speaker 3: I have to mention again I've said this on the

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Speaker 3: show before that someday we should come back and do

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Speaker 3: a series on weird House Cinema that's just movies that

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Speaker 3: had gimmick packaging, so like the release of the Wickerman

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Speaker 3: and the Wooden Box that I'm sure a lot of

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Speaker 3: people now just used to store whatever and who knows

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Speaker 3: what they put in there. Yeah, but also like the

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Speaker 3: Dead Pit with the light up eyes, and I'm sure

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Speaker 3: we could get a whole list of them. Gimmick packaging

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Speaker 3: on VHS tapes is just such a beautiful, beautiful thing,

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Speaker 3: Like almost nothing gives me more weird, gleeful nostalgia.

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Speaker 2: I know a collector or two we could reach out

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Speaker 2: to for that. But yeah, The Wickerman just such a

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Speaker 2: great weird film, one that succeeds in creating not merely

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Speaker 2: an uncanny horror movie, but a thought provoking cinematic enigma.

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Speaker 2: So not to say you can't appreciate it purely as

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Speaker 2: a horror film, purely as this you know, roller coaster

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Speaker 2: ride and experience, but there's just a lot of rich

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Speaker 2: texture to the film that leaves you to make your

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Speaker 2: own interpretations. Like some of the big ones are of course,

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Speaker 2: regard like what is the film saying or not saying

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Speaker 2: about pagan religious beliefs, about modern Christian faith, about human

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Speaker 2: religion in general.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, one of my favorite things about it is that

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Speaker 3: the movie is saying a lot in a way, but

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Speaker 3: it's not really reducible to a message. Maybe I would

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Speaker 3: say it's not actually saying, it is singing, Like the

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Speaker 3: story is just overflowing with meaning and has the kind

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Speaker 3: of feeling of a commentary, but it is not really

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Speaker 3: reducible to a message or a thesis. There's no point

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Speaker 3: the movie really makes without out also sort of making

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Speaker 3: the opposite point also, obviously the subject matter means that

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Speaker 3: the story is entangled with themes of religion, with religion, ritual,

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Speaker 3: and faith, which are three different things, but also power

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Speaker 3: and violence and the law. Some people talk about this

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Speaker 3: movie like they think the point of it is Christianity

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Speaker 3: is bad and Paganism was better. I've seen people talk

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Speaker 3: about it like they think it kind of means that.

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Speaker 3: I feel like it would be hard to really say

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Speaker 3: that's the point of the movie, if you think about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: At the same time, it is certainly not saying the

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Speaker 3: opposite either. This movie is not Christian apologetics, and it

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Speaker 3: was considered extremely offensive by many Christians when it came out,

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Speaker 3: And so instead the religious themes are more it's just

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Speaker 3: sort of a gardening project of religious themes. Just themes

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Speaker 3: are sort of growing, and we're seeing how they grow

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Speaker 3: and interact. It's like throwing Christianity and Celtic Paganism into

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Speaker 3: a weird life flower bed together and seeing what pops

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Speaker 3: up and how they twist around each other.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, that's a good point, because I think it's

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Speaker 2: it's easy to reduce the film, you know, sort of

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Speaker 2: boil it down to Okay, here we have just a

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Speaker 2: it's a folk car tale. It's a you know, exploitation

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Speaker 2: your standard story about someone from the city or from civilization,

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Speaker 2: like going into a rural or more rural part of

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Speaker 2: their own country and invoke it and and encountering like,

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Speaker 2: you know, scary locals there. You know, you see this

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Speaker 2: a lot in fiction in general, but also in speculative

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Speaker 2: fiction and weird fiction and horror. There's certainly an element

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Speaker 2: of that here, not to say that it doesn't you know,

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Speaker 2: dip its toes and wade into those waters. But like

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Speaker 2: you said, it presents ideas on both sides. Like there's

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Speaker 2: there's certainly plenty to admire in the idealistic, close to nature,

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Speaker 2: sex positive society of Summer Isle, but we also come

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Speaker 2: to see the dangers of their ideology. Likewise, our protagonist

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Speaker 2: comes from a world of science and reason, and we

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Speaker 2: like science and reason, and then obviously that seems to

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Speaker 2: be a value that is celebrated within the context of

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Speaker 2: the film as well. But we also see that his

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Speaker 2: world as one of, at least in his own experience,

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Speaker 2: one of sexual repression and deep seated unhappiness. And at

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Speaker 2: the same time, these two worlds are linked in very

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Speaker 2: fundamental ways, and the film does a great job of,

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Speaker 2: sometimes very subtly, sometimes more overtly stitching those connections out.

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Speaker 3: Which we pause really quickly and just say, like, what

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Speaker 3: a one sentence plot summary is. Yeah, It's like. There

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Speaker 3: is a remote Scottish island called Summer Isle, and a

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Speaker 3: West Highland Police officer, a police detective named Sergeant Howie,

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Speaker 3: has been summoned to the island via an anonymous letter

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Speaker 3: saying that a girl on the island named Rowan Morrison

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Speaker 3: has gone missing. So Sergeant Howie, he is, by the way,

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Speaker 3: a devoutly religious Christian police inspector. He goes to the

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Speaker 3: island by seaplane to look for the missing girl and

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Speaker 3: to find out more about the note he received. So

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Speaker 3: that's the setup. And then one of the main things

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Speaker 3: we can say about the plot branching out from there

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Speaker 3: is that Sergeant how he discovers the inhabitants of this

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Speaker 3: remote Scottish island are not Christians, there in fact practicing

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Speaker 3: what seems to be a variant of Celtic paganism, celebrating

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Speaker 3: the old gods, the joyous old gods, and some of

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Speaker 3: the modes of their celebration are quite distressing to him

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Speaker 3: get the basics at least.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good setup here.

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Speaker 3: Another thing I want to mention about The Wickerman that

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Speaker 3: I'd love and find really unique about the movie is

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Speaker 3: the ambiguity of the main characters. So the protagonist of

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Speaker 3: the film, the detective protagonist, Sergeant Howie, is simultaneously so

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Speaker 3: sympathetic and so hateable. His mission is a good one.

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Speaker 3: He is trying to invent instigate the case of a

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Speaker 3: missing girl, and we see his dedication to his mission

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Speaker 3: in a way that, like, you know, obviously, if a

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Speaker 3: child goes missing, it is very good to want to

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Speaker 3: solve that problem and look out for the welfare of

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Speaker 3: the child, which we see he is genuinely invested in.

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Speaker 3: We also see the setting of summerle from his perspective

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Speaker 3: and are thus frustrated with the kind of squirreliness and

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Speaker 3: untrustworthiness of the people he encounters while he's trying to

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Speaker 3: solve this mystery. But also, Sergeant Howie's personality and worldview

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Speaker 3: are so off putting. He is arrogant, self righteous, puritanical, rude,

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Speaker 3: and over and over again his behavior is just so

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Speaker 3: misaligned with how it seems he should be conducting the investigation.

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Speaker 3: He gets sidetracked from this genuinely noble quest in order

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Speaker 3: to screech at people about saying the word penis and

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Speaker 3: things like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like the scene where he disrupts the classroom.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So this is not a type of protagonist

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Speaker 3: I can think of many other examples of, and I

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Speaker 3: find it such an interesting choice. He's kind of like

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Speaker 3: a combination of like Hercule Poirot, but not as but

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Speaker 3: without the virtuosity and detective work. I'll come back to

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Speaker 3: that in a minute. But then also, I don't know,

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Speaker 3: like one of the one of the judges in The

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Speaker 3: Crucible or like the Witchfinder General. He's like a totally

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Speaker 3: unsympathetically puritanical prude.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: So do we like him, like not really? Sometimes not

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Speaker 3: at all, But also we we sympathize with what he's doing,

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Speaker 3: and we want him to find out what happened to

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Speaker 3: the girl and solve the mystery, because we do repeatedly

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Speaker 3: since that something treacherous is afoot and that Sergeant Howie

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Speaker 3: might be the only person on this island who is

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Speaker 3: actually trying to do what's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And that's that's important to realize and something

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Speaker 2: that I think you can sometimes lose track of if

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Speaker 2: you haven't seen the film in a long time, or rather,

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Speaker 2: if you've seen the film and you know the general plot,

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Speaker 2: you know what's gonna happen, and you're rewatching it. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's important to note like what he's not. Like, he's

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Speaker 2: not a pure punchline, Like, he's not a he's not

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Speaker 2: a straight man to set up a joke. Yeah, and

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Speaker 2: we'll talk more about the tone here in a second.

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Speaker 2: He's also not a character that deserves punishment like it's.

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Speaker 2: It's you can easily imagine a cheap kind of like

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Speaker 2: easy comics Tales from the Crypt version of this exact story,

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Speaker 2: where his downfall is directly connected to a specific action

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Speaker 2: or choice on his part, or a deep seated character

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Speaker 2: flaw or something. And that's not really the case either,

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Speaker 2: or at least it's not that one thing that fits

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Speaker 2: into the the you know, the little box in the

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Speaker 2: in the Tales in the Crypt comic book. You know,

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Speaker 2: it's it's broader than that.

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Speaker 3: It's more complicated, right, I know exactly what you're saying. So, yeah,

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Speaker 3: he's not like a Tales from the Crypt protagonist to

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Speaker 3: his the classic format of that character is it is

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Speaker 3: someone who has done something quite evil, is like flawed

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Speaker 3: in a way that spells their own doom. They're going

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Speaker 3: to get a kind of karmic punishment, and we are

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Speaker 3: satisfied to see them get it. Howie is not like that.

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Speaker 3: His unlikeability is shallower and more esthetic. Again, it's just

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Speaker 3: that he is like a rude, arrogant, aggressive, prudish, self

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Speaker 3: righteous jerk. But again I come back to he is

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Speaker 3: a character like that, But we're with him because we

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Speaker 3: sense something is very wrong on this island and he

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Speaker 3: might be the only person who's able to do something

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Speaker 3: about it. But then again, is there something wrong on

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Speaker 3: this island? Another way the movie really keeps you guessing

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Speaker 3: is the characterization of the people positioned as Sergeant Howie's antagonists,

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Speaker 3: like Lord Summerle played by Christopher Lee in a masterful

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Speaker 3: performance We'll talk about more as we go on, or

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Speaker 3: Miss Rose by Diane Cilento, by sort of the default

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Speaker 3: structure of the mystery narrative. These are the suspects in

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Speaker 3: the mystery disappearance of Rowan Morrison, and they're so interesting

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Speaker 3: and likable and polite and have thoughtful perspectives, and they're

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Speaker 3: sometimes just positively jolly in the face of Howie being

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Speaker 3: like rude and aggressive to them. And I don't know,

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Speaker 3: like all the antagonists are so lovable, even when it

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Speaker 3: feels like they're covering something up or not being forthright

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Speaker 3: about what they know. Yeah, yeah, another weird thing about

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Speaker 3: the characters. This is one of the only detective stories

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Speaker 3: I can think of. In fact, maybe it's the only one.

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Speaker 3: Could you even think of a possible counterexample, I don't know.

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Speaker 3: One of the only detective stories I know of where

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Speaker 3: the protagonist is not only unlikable but not particularly competent. Right,

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Speaker 3: this is what you always have a detective story about

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Speaker 3: somebody who has powers of reasoning and insights, Sherlock Holmes

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Speaker 3: or Poirot, you know, detectives who are skilled at solving

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Speaker 3: a complicated puzzle. Sergeant Howie is clearly shown in the

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Speaker 3: movie to be not a very good detective at all,

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Speaker 3: and I think this is an essential part of his characterization.

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Speaker 3: He is constantly missing important clues and constantly making bad

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Speaker 3: choices that lead to dead ends in his pursuit of information.

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Speaker 3: I think one of the main feelings that the audience

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Speaker 3: will generally have about Sergeant Howie is the feeling of pity.

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Speaker 3: It's like, oh boy, this poor guy, he is out

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Speaker 3: of his depth. Isn't that so strange to have a

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Speaker 3: what is essentially a detective story and that's a key

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Speaker 3: feature of your protagonist. Can you think of another story

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Speaker 3: like that?

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Speaker 2: The only examples I can think of are examples where

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Speaker 2: the character is played for humor. Yeah, and this is

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Speaker 2: where we should probably talk about the tone of the film,

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Speaker 2: and I'll just goe and mentioned like humor wise, there

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Speaker 2: are lots of things I think you can you can

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Speaker 2: you will find humorous in The wicker Man, and I

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Speaker 2: think those things are intended. And yet at the same time,

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Speaker 2: it's not a comedy. It is played straight, and certainly

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Speaker 2: Sergeant Howie's character is played straight like it's you could

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Speaker 2: you could easily imagine a character like this tweaked into

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Speaker 2: more of like a Michael Scott from the office to area,

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Speaker 2: you know, or various like bumbling detective comedies we've seen

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Speaker 2: over the years, and that's not what this film is.

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Speaker 2: And of course, as well as we will continue to

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Speaker 2: discuss like it does defy easy categorization in a number

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Speaker 2: of ways.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I like the way you put it about the humor.

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Speaker 3: I think that's right. It's like, there is a lot

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Speaker 3: of intended humor in the movie, and it's iron in nature.

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Speaker 3: It's not in the form of overt jokes and gags.

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Speaker 3: But anyway, I just all these character dynamics, like the

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Speaker 3: unlikeability of the protagonist, the incompetence of the protagonist, and

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Speaker 3: the the likability and thoughtfulness of his antagonists. All these

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Speaker 3: things really keep you guessing, or they certainly did keep

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Speaker 3: me guessing when I first watched Again I when I

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Speaker 3: first saw this, I really had no idea where the

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Speaker 3: movie was going and was floored by the ending, the

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Speaker 3: famous surprise ending.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, And then that's the testament to a film

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Speaker 2: like this, if you're along for the ride, even if

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Speaker 2: you are beginning to wonder, like where could this ride

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Speaker 2: possibly be going?

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Speaker 3: Now, we've said several times we want to come back

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Speaker 3: to the tone of the movie. I think I said

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Speaker 3: at the beginning that it's questionable whether you should really

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Speaker 3: call this movie a horror movie. When people call it horror,

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Speaker 3: I think they're thinking mainly about the ending, which is

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Speaker 3: absolutely horrifying. But for like ninety ninety five percent of

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Speaker 3: the movie, does it really feel like a horror film,

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Speaker 3: I don't think so. I think most of the runtime

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Speaker 3: it feels more like a bizarre, whimsical, religiously themed mystery.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, and even just feels at times feels like

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Speaker 2: a goofy musical, but not at like a laugh like

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Speaker 2: a horror horror, horror, goofy musical, but just like you

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Speaker 2: might ask yourself, what am I watching. My wife had

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Speaker 2: never seen it before, and she watched Party with me

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Speaker 2: last night, and I think that was kind of her reaction,

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Speaker 2: Like I was like, do you want to watch part

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Speaker 2: of this full car movie from the early nineteen seventies,

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Speaker 2: And she's like sure, and then she's like, what's going on?

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Speaker 3: This is funny. Last night, Rachel and I also showed

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Speaker 3: this movie to somebody for the first time and they

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Speaker 3: had a similar reaction, though, like what is going on

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Speaker 3: for much of the time, but I can report there

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Speaker 3: was a big thumbs up in the end awesome, but yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's so so. It's got that weird, not horror at

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Speaker 3: all tone for most of the runtime and then suddenly

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Speaker 3: bam the ending, which is I think one of the bleakest,

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Speaker 3: most terrifying scenes I can think of in all of

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Speaker 3: movie history. It is at once beautiful and terrible. It

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Speaker 3: makes your blood run cold and then warm and then

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Speaker 3: cold again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, it's pretty powerful, and I in terms of

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Speaker 2: films we've watched on Weird House, I put it up

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Speaker 2: there with seconds. Yeah, in terms of its impact, I

365
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Speaker 2: also want to add that even in the film's restored state,

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Speaker 2: which is generally how you'll find it I assume streaming

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Speaker 2: and certainly on home media, there's a raw as to

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Speaker 2: the footage that at times contributes to this feeling that

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Speaker 2: we're watching documentary footage of some sort, like it's a

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Speaker 2: documentary about the way people actually live on this island. Also,

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Speaker 2: you have a lot of non actors in there and musicians,

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Speaker 2: as we'll note, which adds to that feel like I'm

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Speaker 2: not watching actors, I'm watching real people and this must

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Speaker 2: be how they live. The production design, the locations are

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Speaker 2: all a part of this. And you could also probably

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Speaker 2: compare this to some rather different films from the nineteen

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Speaker 2: seventies that also have a similar feel, like Texas Chainsaw Massacre,

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Speaker 2: though again very different sort of horror film.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, though this movie has a lot more of a

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Speaker 3: community feel than Texas Chainsaw Mascar does, which is very

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Speaker 3: isolated and you're only going to meet a few weird characters,

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Speaker 3: but it has that documentary visual style. What you mentioned

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Speaker 3: about the presence of non actors is I feel like

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Speaker 3: a big has a big impact on the ambience of

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Speaker 3: this film. Their scenes in a pub or out in

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Speaker 3: a you know, on a street beside a harbor, where

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Speaker 3: lots of people are milling around on screen and most

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Speaker 3: of them are clearly not actors, people kind of looking

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Speaker 3: weird and confused and mumbling, and it contributes greatly to

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Speaker 3: a sense of reality. Actually, yeah. And it also it

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Speaker 3: makes the important characters pop more, like when you know,

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Speaker 3: all these kind of like old men who are just

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Speaker 3: kind of mumbling their lines a little bit as they're

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Speaker 3: standing around outside the end, and then we meet Lord

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Speaker 3: Somerle and suddenly it's Christopher Lee and you're like awed

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Speaker 3: by his presence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's a great point.

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Speaker 3: Now. Another thing that is kind you could think of

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Speaker 3: as just an extension of the very unusual tone of

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Speaker 3: the movie is the fact that it's also sort of

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Speaker 3: a musical. Like. It not only prominently features music with

402
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Speaker 3: lyrics on the soundtrack, it has several diegetic musical numbers

403
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Speaker 3: where the characters sing and even sing into the camera.

404
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Speaker 3: Is there another horror movie like that. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can't think of another film, certainly a horror

406
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Speaker 2: film that uses music quite the same way.

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Speaker 3: One thing that I think is interesting about the use

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Speaker 3: of music is that only the characters who live on

409
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Speaker 3: summerle seem to know that they're in a musical. So like, normally,

410
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Speaker 3: if you're in a musical, all the characters saying, or

411
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Speaker 3: all of the major characters sing. The protagonist certainly sings,

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Speaker 3: But Sergeant Howie does not sing except we see him

413
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Speaker 3: again it's diegetic music. We see him singing him at

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Speaker 3: church at the beginning of the movie. That's just a

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Speaker 3: scene where he's in church. He never like looks into

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Speaker 3: the camera and sings the way say britt Eklund does

417
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Speaker 3: or the way Christopher Lee does. So it's only the

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Speaker 3: Pagans that are allowed to actually be in a musical

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Speaker 3: as musical players. Sergeant Howie is just sort of living

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Speaker 3: in their musical world without getting to be an agent

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Speaker 3: of music himself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, what if he had sung though, that would

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Speaker 2: have been interesting taken in, taken more of it, like

424
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Speaker 2: a schmigadoon direction where he realizes that he has to

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Speaker 2: sing in order to in order to connect with these characters.

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Speaker 3: M yeah, maybe things would have turned out differently for him.

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Speaker 2: He does sing a little the end. He does sing

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Speaker 2: a little the end. I think, well, we'll get back

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Speaker 2: to that. And while he may sing just a little bit,

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Speaker 2: he never dances. And dances is also a big part

431
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Speaker 2: of a number of these musical numbers where we see

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Speaker 2: some sort of ritual dance taking place.

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Speaker 3: In fact, at one point when he's in disguise, he

434
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 3: gets yelled at for not dancing because he's in disguise

435
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 3: going down the May Day parade and uh at one

436
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,760
Speaker 3: and Christopher Lee turns and sees him just kind of

437
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:20,480
Speaker 3: wandering down the road instead of, I don't know, doing

438
00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 3: whatever he's supposed to be doing, and he yells at him.

439
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,520
Speaker 3: Cut some capers, mad, you.

440
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,359
Speaker 2: Got time to glance, You got time to dance?

441
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, I don't think we can possibly do an

442
00:24:30,359 --> 00:24:31,680
Speaker 3: elevator pitch for Wickerman.

443
00:24:31,880 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 2: No, it pretty much stands on its own. So let's

444
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 2: let's go ahead in here just a little bit from

445
00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,439
Speaker 2: the what I believe is the original trailer.

446
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 4: I got a tail on flo whose lightest work would

447
00:24:48,040 --> 00:25:03,119
Speaker 4: head O up my soul, prete young blood. I am

448
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 4: here to investigate the disappearance. I'm a young girl. Where

449
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:09,840
Speaker 4: is Rowan Morrison?

450
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 3: If Ruin Morrison existed, we would not.

451
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,280
Speaker 4: I should spect Manda the name of God, woman, What

452
00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:21,080
Speaker 4: kind of mother are you that can stand by and

453
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,440
Speaker 4: see your own child slaughtered?

454
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,320
Speaker 1: You are the fool of them.

455
00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 3: Liars.

456
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 4: You are despicable little liars.

457
00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:42,480
Speaker 2: Where if Morrison?

458
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,720
Speaker 3: If Morrison existed, we would not.

459
00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: I suspect Manda she was, but you are the fool.

460
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:54,440
Speaker 4: Where is Rowan Morrison?

461
00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 3: Oh?

462
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 1: My god?

463
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:08,800
Speaker 2: All right? If you would like to see The wicker

464
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:12,200
Speaker 2: Man again? Widely available in all formats and it's could

465
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:15,719
Speaker 2: following has seen multiple special editions released over the years.

466
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 2: There have been a few different cuts. I'm not sure

467
00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 2: to what degree we're going to get into talking about

468
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:22,439
Speaker 2: different cuts of the film. I think there are like

469
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,879
Speaker 2: three major versions, like a theatrical version, and then they

470
00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:28,920
Speaker 2: added some minutes to it, and then they took away

471
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 2: a few minutes. But definitely watch it in you know,

472
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:36,639
Speaker 2: the best format you can get. Maybe shopple around a

473
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: little bit on those different forms. I watched it in

474
00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: a restored form on Blu Ray one that I rented

475
00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:47,119
Speaker 2: from Atlanta's own Videodrome from their full car subsection. Nice.

476
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 2: But I don't know which edition it was. I know

477
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 2: it had like baked in trailers at the beginning, which

478
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,119
Speaker 2: I did not like. I feel like, especially now, it

479
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 2: makes me think it was maybe a slightly older Blu

480
00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:00,400
Speaker 2: Ray because it's more and more Blu rays these days,

481
00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 2: I feel like are treated like the premium item they are,

482
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,960
Speaker 2: and they're like less tied to timely trailers for motion pictures.

483
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,160
Speaker 3: Wait, what was what were your bakedin trailers for? Mine

484
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:16,800
Speaker 3: was for a re release of American Psycho. Yes, yes, okay,

485
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,359
Speaker 3: so we've got the same disc, do we?

486
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 2: Okay?

487
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:23,159
Speaker 3: Okay, So then you probably watched what's called the final cut,

488
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,160
Speaker 3: I think so, and the final cut is I think

489
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,840
Speaker 3: the latest of the major cuts of the film. Did

490
00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:35,040
Speaker 3: your version also have some scenes that were in much

491
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 3: lower film quality than most of the movie?

492
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 2: I believe? So? Yeah, restored sequences, yes.

493
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 3: So, like the scene where Christopher Lee is outside the

494
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:45,080
Speaker 3: inn at night talking to a slug about how he

495
00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:46,160
Speaker 3: wants to be like him.

496
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:47,200
Speaker 2: Oh so good.

497
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's good. That was not in the original version

498
00:27:50,080 --> 00:27:51,639
Speaker 3: of the movie that I saw. I think the first

499
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,359
Speaker 3: one I saw was the theatrical cut. But so that's

500
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,399
Speaker 3: a restored scene that the film does not look great,

501
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 3: but I'm glad it's there, and it's worth it to have,

502
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,760
Speaker 3: even though it's cutting back and forth between extremely different

503
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,359
Speaker 3: levels of fidelity. It's worth it to have that.

504
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it helps too that the best fidelity in

505
00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,720
Speaker 2: the film is not like so great that it feels

506
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: as jarring or at least the Yeah, that's the impression

507
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 2: I have. Alright, Let's get into the people behind this

508
00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: film a bit, starting with the director, of course. The

509
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,960
Speaker 2: director was Robin Hardy, who lived nineteen twenty nine through

510
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:40,680
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen. English director who started out directing for the

511
00:28:40,760 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: National Film Board of Canada, then Yeah Yeah, then PBS

512
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,080
Speaker 2: aligned SOO World Theater, before moving to London to partner

513
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:52,360
Speaker 2: with screenwriter Anthony Schaeffer to co found an advertising agency.

514
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 2: The wicker Man, again, released in seventy three, filmed in

515
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 2: seventy two, I believe, was his first feature directorial project

516
00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,080
Speaker 2: and by far his most impactful. He only followed it

517
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: up with two other films. Nineteen eighty six is the

518
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 2: Fantasist and twenty eleven's The Wicker Tree, based on his

519
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:12,520
Speaker 2: own novel, Cowboys for a Christ. He also has a

520
00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 2: story credit on nineteen eighty eights Forbidden's Son. After The Wickerman,

521
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,320
Speaker 2: he returned to the US and mostly wrote historical novels

522
00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:21,840
Speaker 2: and worked, according to his obituary in The Guardian, as

523
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: a consultant in the historical theme park business. David Piner

524
00:29:27,440 --> 00:29:31,360
Speaker 2: is the novelist the novel ritual from nineteen sixty seven.

525
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 2: This apparently is what they paid to adapt it. It's

526
00:29:35,080 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 2: not one of these cases where they just kind of

527
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:38,840
Speaker 2: ripped it off, like they paid to do the adaptation

528
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: but then ultimately deviated from a lot of it. I

529
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: haven't read it, but I'm to understand it. You know.

530
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 2: It concerns, maybe on some level, the same skeleton of

531
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:50,640
Speaker 2: a plot line where a police investigator is checking out

532
00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:54,719
Speaker 2: some rural community that ends up having some some you know,

533
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:57,360
Speaker 2: pagan elements to their religious rights.

534
00:29:57,800 --> 00:29:59,800
Speaker 3: No way to confirm this, just to guess, but I

535
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 3: like to imagine that this movie was at least in

536
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:08,040
Speaker 3: part based on something from Christopher Lee's apocryphal collection of

537
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 3: Occult Tomes.

538
00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: I wouldn't be surprised. Yeah. Now, Anthony Shaffer that we mentioned,

539
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 2: who wrote the screenplay. He lived nineteen twenty six through

540
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,640
Speaker 2: two thousand and one. British writer whose previous credits included

541
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 2: Alfred Hitchcock's nineteen seventy two film Frenzy, which, if you

542
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 2: haven't seen it, seen it as quite a solid psycho

543
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:29,920
Speaker 2: killer film starring John Finch and Barry Foster.

544
00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:32,520
Speaker 3: I've actually never seen that one. I love Hitchcock, but.

545
00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,719
Speaker 2: Oh it's good. It hasn't as I recall it as

546
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 2: a really nice long shot.

547
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 3: At one point we had some movies with those yet

548
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:42,880
Speaker 3: was this his second to last movie?

549
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: It was pretty late.

550
00:30:43,920 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah.

551
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:49,800
Speaker 2: And also Shaffer wrote the two man play turned film

552
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 2: Sleuth from the same year, starring Lawrence Olivier and Michael Kine,

553
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,920
Speaker 2: and he'd later work on Let's See. There was a

554
00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,640
Speaker 2: whole series of seventies and eighties Agatha Christie film adaptations

555
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 2: in which Peter Eustonoff played Parrot and his identical twin brother.

556
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,440
Speaker 2: Peter Schaffer, who lived nineteen twenty six through twenty sixteen,

557
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: was also an acclaimed screenwriter whose stage in screen credits

558
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 2: include Equis and Amedeus.

559
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 3: Wow.

560
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 2: Talented siblings.

561
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 3: Yes, there is a lot to love about The Wickerman,

562
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:22,000
Speaker 3: but I think it has a particularly fantastic screenplay for

563
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:26,160
Speaker 3: a horror film. Not to insult horror films generally, but

564
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: you know, I'm a lover of horror, but I'm aware

565
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,520
Speaker 3: that a lot of horror writing does it is attracted

566
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 3: to cliches, like a magnet sort of, and this screenplay,

567
00:31:38,320 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 3: even though now we live in a world where a

568
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:44,080
Speaker 3: lot of other stories I think have copied a lot

569
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,160
Speaker 3: from The Wickerman, but at least for its own time,

570
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:52,600
Speaker 3: incredibly unusual and unique and remarkably I think free of

571
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 3: cliche is just an original and authentic exploration.

572
00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 2: Absolutely all right. Getting into the cast here, playing Sergeant Howie,

573
00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:06,440
Speaker 2: we have Edward Woodwarton, who lived nineteen thirty through two

574
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:09,479
Speaker 2: thousand and nine, British actor of stage, screen and TV,

575
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 2: who at the time was best known in the UK

576
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,360
Speaker 2: for his portrayal of Secret Service agent Callen on the

577
00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:18,240
Speaker 2: TV show of the same name. Now, when I first

578
00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: watched The wicker Man, I knew him mostly from advertisements

579
00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: for the TV show The Equalizer, which ran eighty five

580
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 2: through eighty nine.

581
00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 3: What does an equalizer do?

582
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 2: I don't know. It's not a show I ever actually watched,

583
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: but I know I just was like, well, that's the equalizer.

584
00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 2: He equalizes.

585
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 3: It sounds like a piece of audio equipment.

586
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. I don't know if the equalizer on the TV

587
00:32:40,520 --> 00:32:43,200
Speaker 2: show is a cop. If he's like a fixer, Like

588
00:32:43,280 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: which side of the law he's aligned with? Is he

589
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,320
Speaker 2: a secret agent? I'm not sure, but he equalizes, so

590
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,840
Speaker 2: there's some implied neutrality there.

591
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,680
Speaker 3: I guess I've got a seventy nine two equalizer.

592
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 2: Man. He has a ton of credits, though, including nineteen

593
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:03,160
Speaker 2: sixty four's Beckett, nineteen eighty's Breaker Morant. He had the

594
00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 2: title role in that. He's in nineteen eighty four as

595
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 2: a Christmas carol. He plays the ghost of Christmas Present

596
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,880
Speaker 2: in that one. This is one of the Christmas carols

597
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: that my family watched a lot when I was a kid.

598
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 3: That's so funny. The ghost of Christmas Present is supposed

599
00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: to be jolly and full of good cheer, which is

600
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 3: not at all in the role I'm familiar with.

601
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's very different role. He pops up in

602
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,760
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven's Hot Fuzz. His only other horror

603
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 2: films is that I'm aware of are nineteen seventy one's

604
00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 2: Bloodsuckers and nineteen eighty two's The Appointment. And I would

605
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,200
Speaker 2: also be remiss if I didn't mention that he plays

606
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:39,920
Speaker 2: soul in the nineteen eighty five King David movie. That's

607
00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:41,360
Speaker 2: the one that has George Eastman in it.

608
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 3: This is like the second reference to this in like

609
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 3: three weeks.

610
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: Everything comes back to George Eastman. Yeah.

611
00:33:47,840 --> 00:33:50,520
Speaker 3: I think Edward Woodward should get a lot of love

612
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:53,440
Speaker 3: for this performance because it's kind of a thankless role.

613
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 3: Like it is so much easier to love the Pagans

614
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,560
Speaker 3: in the movie, to love Christopher Lee, and to love

615
00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 3: Diane Celento and Ingrid Pitt, you know, all the local

616
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,040
Speaker 3: characters who are sort of the colorful, interesting wild ones.

617
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:11,800
Speaker 3: As we've said many times, the protagonist of this movie

618
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 3: is not very likable. He's kind of a stick in

619
00:34:13,680 --> 00:34:16,200
Speaker 3: the mud. He's kind of a jerk, and so I

620
00:34:16,200 --> 00:34:20,719
Speaker 3: think it's very easy to miss how important the portrayal

621
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 3: of this character is to the effect of the story

622
00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 3: in the end. And Edward Woodward is great in the role.

623
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 3: He he doesn't try to steal the show and make

624
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,600
Speaker 3: his character more likable than he needs to be. Instead,

625
00:34:32,680 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 3: he's he's exactly what is called for by the script

626
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,600
Speaker 3: and he's great. He's great.

627
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's a complex role. It's arguably far more

628
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 2: complex than any of the other characters that we encounter

629
00:34:44,400 --> 00:34:47,080
Speaker 2: in the picture. I was watching an interview with the

630
00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:51,319
Speaker 2: director and Hardy really gives a lot of credit to

631
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 2: Woodward for creating this character on the screen. Like he says,

632
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 2: you know, like with Christopher Lee's character, we had these

633
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 2: parameters set out and Christopher Lee delivered, you know, knocked

634
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: out of the park. But there was a lot to

635
00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 2: Sergeant Howie that really had to be created in the performance.

636
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 2: And he gives Woodward all the credit in the world

637
00:35:11,239 --> 00:35:12,399
Speaker 2: for doing that.

638
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 3: That's right. A lot of how we feel about how

639
00:35:15,080 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 3: he isn't even in his lines. It's in kind of

640
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:23,719
Speaker 3: facial expressions and reactions. He brings such a sense of

641
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 3: visible frustration to the character in every scene almost you

642
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 3: can just see him just kind of like shaking with annoyance.

643
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, and wrestling with what he's seeing. You know, there's

644
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,080
Speaker 2: a lot of he's not telling you his internal monologue

645
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:42,000
Speaker 2: about how conflicted he may feel about certain things, or

646
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:44,440
Speaker 2: tempted he may feel about certain things. It's just in

647
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:45,319
Speaker 2: the performance, you.

648
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 3: Know, when he's trying to say hide maybe a prurient

649
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 3: sexual interest that he knows he should not have, but

650
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,080
Speaker 3: is part of his character as well. So yeah, totally agree,

651
00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 3: Woodward is excellent.

652
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,560
Speaker 2: All right, Let's move on to Lord summer Isle, who,

653
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 2: as we've been mentioning, is played by the great Christopher

654
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 2: Lee who lived nineteen twenty two through twenty fifteen. This

655
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 2: is our seventh Weird House Cinema selection featuring Sir Christopher Lee,

656
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:13,319
Speaker 2: you know, as we as you know, best known for

657
00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,080
Speaker 2: such roles as Sarimon the White and Lord of the Rings,

658
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: Dracula in multiple Hammer horror films and some non Hammer

659
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:24,120
Speaker 2: horror films, and Count Dooku in the Star Wars prequels.

660
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:26,439
Speaker 2: I just caught Revenge of the Sith on the big

661
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: screen in its re release, and his performance is brief

662
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 2: but very memorable, has a nice little arc to it

663
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,640
Speaker 2: probably I would say, arguably stands out among his very

664
00:36:36,719 --> 00:36:38,240
Speaker 2: late career performances.

665
00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 3: I've said this before that I'm not as big a

666
00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 3: fan of the Star Wars prequels, though not to poo

667
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 3: poo anybody who does love them, but for me at

668
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,000
Speaker 3: least even in my least favorite, which is Attack of

669
00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:51,719
Speaker 3: the Clones, when Christopher Lee shows up, it's just it's

670
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:56,120
Speaker 3: a whole other movie now, Like I love him, and yeah,

671
00:36:56,239 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 3: so Christopher Lee is one of my favorites, but this

672
00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:01,080
Speaker 3: is it's got to be. This is my all time

673
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 3: favorite Christopher Lee role. The Wickerman is head and shoulders

674
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:06,719
Speaker 3: above them all to me.

675
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, And this is an opinion that Christopher

676
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,640
Speaker 2: Lee shared as well. By most accounts, the film was

677
00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:15,399
Speaker 2: reportedly a real passion project for him. We mentioned how

678
00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:18,800
Speaker 2: he was pretty much in the room, being one of

679
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 2: the people who brought it together to begin with, and

680
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,000
Speaker 2: he claimed, and I have no reason to doubt him

681
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 2: to have waived off any payment for the role. That

682
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:31,200
Speaker 2: basically like they couldn't afford him, they couldn't afford his rate.

683
00:37:31,280 --> 00:37:33,040
Speaker 2: And he's like, well, don't worry about it. I want

684
00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 2: this film to be made. And then when the film

685
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 2: studio opted to release it in the UK without a

686
00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,520
Speaker 2: screening as part of a double feature, the second half

687
00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 2: of the double feature with Don't Look Now.

688
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:45,440
Speaker 3: Which is a great horror movie.

689
00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:49,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's a very very well received picture. I

690
00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:52,239
Speaker 2: don't know if it's these are two strange, kind of

691
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: an odd match to pair them together. Yes, but that

692
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,279
Speaker 2: kind of also shows you that the studio seemingly didn't

693
00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 2: really know what to do with the film, and we're

694
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 2: just kind of like, we'll just put it out there,

695
00:38:01,120 --> 00:38:03,799
Speaker 2: we're not going to screen it. But Lee then personally

696
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 2: calls all the film critics that he knew of to

697
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,959
Speaker 2: encourage them to see the film and offering to buy

698
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 2: their ticket if they needed him to.

699
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:15,440
Speaker 3: Wow, that's great. Uh and and I love that because

700
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:18,600
Speaker 3: I'm pretty sure, actually I don't know what the original

701
00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:23,360
Speaker 3: critical reception was, but I know the studio that owned

702
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 3: that owned the Wickerman hated it when when it was

703
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 3: coming to I think it was emi like they famously

704
00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,680
Speaker 3: like were panicking because they thought the movie was so

705
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 3: bad and they were trying to find ways to avoid

706
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 3: releasing it or to to cut it down. I think

707
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:39,719
Speaker 3: I think they just hated what they had on their

708
00:38:39,719 --> 00:38:42,359
Speaker 3: hands and they didn't realize that it was a masterpiece.

709
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, there there. This seems to definitely be the

710
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,680
Speaker 2: be true to some extent, But then there's also some

711
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 2: seems to be some myth making on top of that.

712
00:38:50,960 --> 00:38:52,560
Speaker 3: Okay, you know, like I said, this is a.

713
00:38:52,560 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 2: Film that's been very popular for a long time. There's

714
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:56,480
Speaker 2: been a lot of interviews and a lot of comments,

715
00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,640
Speaker 2: like I saw one story that I'm I'm casting some

716
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 2: doubt on that Rod Stewart tried to buy all the

717
00:39:03,080 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 2: copies of it at one point so he could destroy

718
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:08,480
Speaker 2: his then girlfriend's nude scene. Things like that. I don't know,

719
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 2: I'm just going to pass that by.

720
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 3: Was he dating britt Ecklund.

721
00:39:13,239 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 2: I believe so, yes, Okay. Also it said that later on,

722
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 2: when the film was released in the United States and

723
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,000
Speaker 2: seventy four, Lee flew to the States on his own

724
00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 2: dime to promote it as well, and would just appear

725
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:28,040
Speaker 2: on basically any show to talk about the Wickerman.

726
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 3: That just filled me with happiness.

727
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,799
Speaker 2: That's gorgeous and as we've been saying, it is a

728
00:39:32,840 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 2: delightful performance from Lee, which I think is saying something

729
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,319
Speaker 2: because while Lee is always a fine screen presence, he

730
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:43,240
Speaker 2: almost always plays a rather grim and serious character, often

731
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 2: with a malicious glint in his eyes, and for much

732
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 2: of the film, the Lord Summerle that we experience is

733
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:53,840
Speaker 2: a joyous, carefree figure. I swear Lee, who is I

734
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:57,000
Speaker 2: think around fifty at the time. Really feels younger and

735
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,560
Speaker 2: certainly more energetic in this role than any anything else

736
00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:04,280
Speaker 2: I've seen him in from before or after this picture.

737
00:40:04,600 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 3: He has the energy of a twenty two year old

738
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,320
Speaker 3: hippie who does clowning school. Yes, yeah, he's just he's

739
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 3: just magical. In the movie, he's bursting with positive intensity,

740
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,920
Speaker 3: occasionally turning threatening and then just turning very friendly and charming. Again.

741
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 3: He has, in fact, he has kind of the quality

742
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 3: of a pagan god. You can feel him almost becoming

743
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:34,879
Speaker 3: superhumanly enlarged and striding over the fields, beaming down sunshine

744
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 3: at everyone around him.

745
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 2: That's good, that's good. Yeah. So these are our two

746
00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 2: main characters, I guess in the film, but we have

747
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,360
Speaker 2: a number of very interesting supporting roles, starting with I

748
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:51,360
Speaker 2: believe we mentioned her already, but Diane Cialino plays Miss Rose,

749
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 2: who I believe is the town teacher. She's teaching to

750
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:56,359
Speaker 2: I don't know what other like a lot of it's

751
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 2: a small town, so a lot of people have multiple

752
00:40:58,320 --> 00:40:58,759
Speaker 2: roles here.

753
00:40:58,840 --> 00:41:02,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, double book on a lot of occupations in the town.

754
00:41:03,200 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 3: Miss Rose is a great character in dian Cia Lento

755
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 3: is excellent in this role. I mean, I'm gonna sound

756
00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:13,040
Speaker 3: repetitive with the cast because everybody's so good. But she

757
00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:18,680
Speaker 3: is great. She has such a gracious, almost flowing water

758
00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 3: kind of way of reacting to Sergeant Howie's aggressive inquiry.

759
00:41:23,840 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 3: You know, she's at many points she is resisting his investigation.

760
00:41:30,000 --> 00:41:33,760
Speaker 3: But it's just hard to feel like she could possibly

761
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:34,920
Speaker 3: be a bad guy, you know.

762
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, she Like a number of the other townsfolk

763
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:40,720
Speaker 2: that we meet, they're very likable and they seem very

764
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:43,839
Speaker 2: sensible in the face of his investigation.

765
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:50,760
Speaker 3: Yes, they're always making good points against Yeah.

766
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:55,799
Speaker 2: So. Cialento lived nineteen thirty two through twenty eleven Australian

767
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:58,400
Speaker 2: born actress of stage and screen who is nominated for

768
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 2: an Oscar in nineteen sixty four for her supporting performance

769
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 2: in the movie Tom Jones. Her other credits include sixty

770
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:08,400
Speaker 2: five's The Agony and the Ecstasy, nineteen sixty seven Zombre

771
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:13,600
Speaker 2: and nineteen seventy two ZPG. She married Anthony Schaeffer in

772
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five, and from her previous marriage she was

773
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,080
Speaker 2: the mother of Jason Connery. I've read that she was

774
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 2: a self professed white witch at the time of The

775
00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 2: Wickerman's filming and was personally involved in various details, including

776
00:42:26,840 --> 00:42:29,760
Speaker 2: the fire dance, and at one point there's a tarot

777
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 2: card on the ceiling and I believe I've read that

778
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,920
Speaker 2: she drew that or painted it.

779
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:36,000
Speaker 3: Oh cool.

780
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,680
Speaker 2: Oh. And then of course there's the innkeeper's daughter, Willow,

781
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:49,720
Speaker 2: played by Britt Eklund.

782
00:42:50,320 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 3: Also great. Britt Ekland gets a full on musical number

783
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 3: where she turns and looks into the camera while she's

784
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:57,240
Speaker 3: singing yes.

785
00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,240
Speaker 2: Yeah. Born nineteen forty two, Swedish actress, model and singer

786
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:07,040
Speaker 2: who certainly delivers charisma and sex appeal for several key

787
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:10,720
Speaker 2: scenes in the film, a character who, in Lord Somerle's words,

788
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:14,680
Speaker 2: is the embodiment of the Goddess of love. Eckland was

789
00:43:14,920 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 2: a rather major celebrity of the day and appeared in

790
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:21,560
Speaker 2: some notable early nineteen seventies films, including seventy one's Get Carter,

791
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,160
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy two's Asylum, and nineteen seventy four Is the

792
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,880
Speaker 2: Man with the Golden Gun, which of course also featured

793
00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:28,600
Speaker 2: Christopher Lee.

794
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,600
Speaker 3: Sometimes I watch that movie as a kind of it's

795
00:43:31,640 --> 00:43:35,640
Speaker 3: a James Bond movie. Yes, probably one of the worst

796
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 3: James Bond movies. It's not very good, but as I

797
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:41,919
Speaker 3: say about some movies on here, it's not very good,

798
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:48,600
Speaker 3: but it's a good time and it's just a nice

799
00:43:48,640 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 3: little wicker Man reunion to watch every now and then.

800
00:43:52,080 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 3: I seem to recall the character she plays in The

801
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 3: Man with the Golden Gun is supposed to be kind

802
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:01,120
Speaker 3: of not very smart, like she's kind of always like clumsily.

803
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 3: I don't she's like a spy, but she's constantly like whoops,

804
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 3: getting bumped into the trunk of a car. And yeah,

805
00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 3: I don't know, it doesn't make a lot of sense,

806
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,400
Speaker 3: but it's not a great movie. But in The Wickerman

807
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:14,520
Speaker 3: she is not dumb. She's rather crafty.

808
00:44:14,600 --> 00:44:18,320
Speaker 2: Actually yeah she uh you know, she behaves almost like

809
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:22,719
Speaker 2: a like a siren character. Yeah, and she has at

810
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 2: least one key uh scene that features nudity, and I

811
00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,440
Speaker 2: want to want to highlight that. A lot of times,

812
00:44:29,560 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 2: you know, the nudity and films of this era and

813
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 2: certainly of this genre or are more about pure titillation.

814
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:37,520
Speaker 2: And you know, not to say that these scenes are

815
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 2: removed of titillation, but but there's a there's a lot

816
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 2: more going on here, and I feel like they're they're

817
00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 2: overall very well crafted in the extra that I featured,

818
00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:51,520
Speaker 2: Hardy talks a little bit about the Key Brett Acklin

819
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:53,400
Speaker 2: nude scene and how they shot it and all, and

820
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:55,680
Speaker 2: there's some there are actually some fun stories about that

821
00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:58,239
Speaker 2: where they actually had to send off for someone to

822
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:01,640
Speaker 2: come in to be the butt double for that scene.

823
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 2: They had to get somebody from a nightclub in Scotland. Oh,

824
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 2: that's funny.

825
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 3: But we should say we've been speaking about them like

826
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,279
Speaker 3: they might be two different scenes. The nude scene is

827
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:17,680
Speaker 3: also the musical number Yes, yes, yeah, and it is

828
00:45:17,680 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 3: the scene where Britt Ecklund is really dedicated to making

829
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 3: Sergeant Howie starts sinning.

830
00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:25,239
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he's in another room. But this the end

831
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,960
Speaker 2: has very thin walls and you can hear everything, like

832
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:34,160
Speaker 2: the people downstairs can hear everything. Howd he can hear everything? Yeah,

833
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,320
Speaker 2: we'll get into that when we talk about the specific scene,

834
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,960
Speaker 2: all right. And then rounding out the our trio of

835
00:45:41,000 --> 00:45:44,600
Speaker 2: blonde seventy starlets in this picture, we have Ingrid Pitt

836
00:45:44,640 --> 00:45:48,520
Speaker 2: playing the librarian. She lived nineteen thirty seven through twenty ten.

837
00:45:49,200 --> 00:45:52,720
Speaker 2: Something of a Hammer Horror regular. The Polish born actress

838
00:45:52,719 --> 00:45:55,799
Speaker 2: who started out on the East Berlin stage, is best

839
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 2: known for roles in such films as nineteen sixty eight's

840
00:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: Where Eagles dareeteen seventies The Vampire Lovers, and nineteen seventy

841
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:06,479
Speaker 2: one's Countess Dracula. Her other credits include episodes of Doctor Who,

842
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,080
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one is The House That Dripped Blood and

843
00:46:09,239 --> 00:46:12,719
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty five's Transmutations. We'll have more to say about

844
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,839
Speaker 2: her when we talk about the specific one of the

845
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,400
Speaker 2: main scenes that features the librarian.

846
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,279
Speaker 3: Yes, now you mentioned the character of Willow McGregor. That's

847
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,440
Speaker 3: Brittet glend But we also meet her father, the Innkeeper

848
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,440
Speaker 3: aka the Landlord, who is an extremely odd critter.

849
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:33,399
Speaker 2: Yes. Yes. Played by Lindsey Kemp, who lived nineteen thirty

850
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 2: eight through twenty eighteen. He was a British dancer, actor, teacher,

851
00:46:38,680 --> 00:46:43,040
Speaker 2: mime artist and choreographer. His other acting credits include seventy

852
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 2: two Savage Messiah, a nineteen eighty four TV adaptation of

853
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,640
Speaker 2: A Midsummer Night's Dream in which he plays Puck in

854
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:54,520
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety eight's Velvet gold Mine. Very interesting character in

855
00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:57,040
Speaker 2: his own right. He was a mentor to both David

856
00:46:57,080 --> 00:46:58,680
Speaker 2: Bowie and Kate Bush.

857
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 3: Hats off to him. I love every minute he's on screen.

858
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 3: He's got this wild kind of raised eyebrow that's just

859
00:47:06,000 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 3: always like, oh, you know you're a policeman, are you.

860
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's great. There is always that kind of like

861
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:19,680
Speaker 2: a sly judgment taking place with him. Yeah, wonderful little role.

862
00:47:20,560 --> 00:47:23,480
Speaker 2: I mean all the so, all the towns folk are great,

863
00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:26,840
Speaker 2: the non actors, the musicians, and then the various character

864
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 2: actors here and there. One that really stands out though,

865
00:47:29,960 --> 00:47:34,280
Speaker 2: is Aubrey Morris playing the old gardener Slash the grave Digger. Yes,

866
00:47:34,320 --> 00:47:38,480
Speaker 2: a great British character actor whose supporting roles include films

867
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 2: like seventy one's a Clockwork, Orange Blood from the Mummy's

868
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:46,960
Speaker 2: Tomb and Lystlemania. Also nineteen eighty five's Life Force and

869
00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 2: the She Creature from two thousand and one. I would

870
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 2: say one of the most memorable locals we meet in

871
00:47:52,320 --> 00:47:52,720
Speaker 2: the film.

872
00:47:52,880 --> 00:47:56,520
Speaker 3: He has a fantastic moment where Sergeant Howie asks him

873
00:47:56,560 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 3: where their minister is and he just says minister and

874
00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 3: starts laughing and walks away.

875
00:48:04,480 --> 00:48:06,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's really he We meet him in the graveyard,

876
00:48:06,680 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 2: a great scene in the graveyard. Well we'll probably get

877
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:10,920
Speaker 2: to but yeah, he lived nineteen twenty six through twenty fifteen.

878
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:15,080
Speaker 2: All right, now, one more local man that I want

879
00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:17,920
Speaker 2: to mention here. There's a pishmonger character, and I'm not

880
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 2: sure I one hundred percent remember the fishmonger. Do you

881
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 2: remember the fishmonger?

882
00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:24,000
Speaker 3: I don't.

883
00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:26,760
Speaker 2: It's possible his scene was even cut. I'm not certain.

884
00:48:27,239 --> 00:48:29,160
Speaker 2: If nothing else, we may see him in the background.

885
00:48:29,239 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 3: There are a lot of rosy cheeked, gray haired, partly

886
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 3: balding old men who stand around in the background of

887
00:48:36,480 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 3: many scenes at the pub, at the harbor, and so forth,

888
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 3: at the May Day celebration and don't really get in

889
00:48:42,920 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 3: many individual moments of their own. But it's a it's

890
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 3: a but overall, it's a big community ensemble, and so

891
00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:50,279
Speaker 3: there are a lot of characters you're not going to

892
00:48:50,320 --> 00:48:51,560
Speaker 3: remember very specifically.

893
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, the fishmonger is played by John Young, who

894
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 2: lived nineteen sixteen through nineteen ninety six. And this is

895
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,560
Speaker 2: the guy who played the mob historian that a Night

896
00:49:01,640 --> 00:49:05,160
Speaker 2: murders in nineteen seventy five's Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

897
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,919
Speaker 3: Oh I remember him, Yeah, yeah.

898
00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 2: He shows up like it's, you know, a television show

899
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 2: about medieval history. And then at one point a night

900
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 2: rides past him and slays him with a sword. Yeah,

901
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 2: it's a good gag. Yeah, as a John Young. He

902
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 2: was also in Life of Brian in seventy nine and

903
00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:28,239
Speaker 2: eighty one's Chariots of Fire. Oh, and he's also in

904
00:49:28,280 --> 00:49:30,880
Speaker 2: Time Bad's all right, And then coming back around to

905
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:35,160
Speaker 2: the music, Paul Giovanni was the composer. He lived nineteen

906
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,719
Speaker 2: thirty three through nineteen ninety and Yeah, there's there's a

907
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:40,719
Speaker 2: lot where we're going to continue to say about the

908
00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,520
Speaker 2: music of The wicker Man, a film that makes terrific

909
00:49:43,640 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 2: use of digetic music, contributing heavily to the uneasiness of

910
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:50,760
Speaker 2: the film and also creating that feeling of uncertainty regarding

911
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:55,040
Speaker 2: what sort of musical film are we watching. Paul Giovanni

912
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: was an American playwright, actor, director, a singer and musician,

913
00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:01,560
Speaker 2: and we see him in the film as well the

914
00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 2: man singing gently Johnny and the green.

915
00:50:03,800 --> 00:50:07,200
Speaker 3: Man in Oh, I didn't realize that was Paul Giovanni.

916
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:10,120
Speaker 3: He's a handsome fella, and he's a good singer.

917
00:50:10,320 --> 00:50:13,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, he also sings on corn rigs and Landlord's daughter.

918
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,120
Speaker 2: Giovanni wrote the music and much of the lyrics I

919
00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:20,080
Speaker 2: think corn Riggs is adapted from a Robert Burns song.

920
00:50:21,600 --> 00:50:25,480
Speaker 2: But this was his only musical film credit. But his

921
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 2: plays include The Crucifer of Blood, which was adapted in

922
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,840
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety one for a TV film starring Charlton Heston

923
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,640
Speaker 2: as Sherlock Holmes. What Yeah, and.

924
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,719
Speaker 3: That is one of the weirdest pieces of casting I've

925
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 3: ever heard of.

926
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never seen it. I'm only vaguely aware of it.

927
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 2: And my initial reaction is much like when I hear

928
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 2: about anybody playing Sherlock Holmes. I'm my personal response is

929
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,759
Speaker 2: You're not Sherlock Holmes. Jeremy Brett is Sherlock Holmes. But

930
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,560
Speaker 2: then I read this is crazy. Just learned this literally today.

931
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 2: That ten years earlier before this TV adaptation of The

932
00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:06,640
Speaker 2: Crucifer of Blood, Heston played the role in an LA

933
00:51:06,760 --> 00:51:11,160
Speaker 2: stage adaptation of the play and Jeremy Brett played Watson.

934
00:51:11,600 --> 00:51:12,440
Speaker 3: What Yeah.

935
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem right, It doesn't seem like it should

936
00:51:14,719 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 2: be real. It seems like this is some sort of

937
00:51:16,960 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 2: awful joke being played on me personally. But yeah, I'm

938
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:22,320
Speaker 2: sure Jimmy Brett was a fine Watson.

939
00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:24,759
Speaker 3: I gotta look this up. I just I am not

940
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:29,360
Speaker 3: even finding myself able to imagine Charlton Heston as Sherlock Holmes.

941
00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 3: That is weird. That is deep weird.

942
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:34,879
Speaker 2: I don't have any other information on it. I don't

943
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:37,960
Speaker 2: know if he attempts a British accent or not. But

944
00:51:38,160 --> 00:51:42,080
Speaker 2: it definitely happened. It happened more than once. Now it's

945
00:51:42,080 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 2: not just Paul Giovanni on the music here. The collaborating

946
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:50,560
Speaker 2: musicians responsible are credited as Magnet, headed up by composer

947
00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:53,920
Speaker 2: Gary Carpenter born nineteen fifty one, who was also associate

948
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:57,440
Speaker 2: music director on the film. I watched a great interview

949
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,799
Speaker 2: with Carpenter about the film's music and the winding path

950
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:05,520
Speaker 2: the soundtrack took to actual physical release. All very insightful

951
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:07,920
Speaker 2: and full of lots of technical details if you're interested

952
00:52:07,920 --> 00:52:11,560
Speaker 2: in like the recording details and all. But one observation

953
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,800
Speaker 2: he made that I thought was interesting is he compares

954
00:52:13,840 --> 00:52:17,640
Speaker 2: the raw recording style of the film's music is being

955
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 2: very similar to later trends and just music recording in general.

956
00:52:21,520 --> 00:52:24,840
Speaker 2: So we have all these scenes where in the picture

957
00:52:25,680 --> 00:52:30,399
Speaker 2: musicians characters that our musicians are creating the music within

958
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 2: the scene. But of course all of that is also

959
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:37,040
Speaker 2: recorded separately in a sound studio to be used as

960
00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:40,759
Speaker 2: part of you know, to create the film's score and soundtrack.

961
00:52:41,360 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 2: But it's the same people. So you have this interesting

962
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:46,880
Speaker 2: connection there, and that's I think one of the reasons

963
00:52:46,920 --> 00:52:49,120
Speaker 2: that they said, well, we're going to record this in

964
00:52:49,160 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 2: such a way that there is a rawness to it

965
00:52:51,200 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 2: that you can He kept talking about how you can

966
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:57,600
Speaker 2: you can hear like like some of the physical details

967
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:00,320
Speaker 2: of the instrumentation, you know, I guess to sort of

968
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:03,520
Speaker 2: place you in the scene with the music creation and

969
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 2: not just experiencing the results of the musical act.

970
00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:08,600
Speaker 3: Interesting.

971
00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, so once again, yeah, the music is a very

972
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:13,799
Speaker 2: important part of The wicker Man and is on the

973
00:53:13,800 --> 00:53:16,480
Speaker 2: whole terrific. I should also add that the score is

974
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:19,440
Speaker 2: widely available. You can buy it, you can stream it,

975
00:53:19,719 --> 00:53:21,759
Speaker 2: so after you've watched The wicker Man, you can do

976
00:53:21,840 --> 00:53:25,480
Speaker 2: what I've been doing and just run the score and

977
00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,600
Speaker 2: the soundtrack over and over again in your headphones.

978
00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:31,360
Speaker 3: And you can wander around your house singing corn rigs

979
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:33,120
Speaker 3: and bars.

980
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: Yes, oh, we do that so much. All right. Now,

981
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:41,320
Speaker 2: this is the point at which we would normally transition

982
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:44,880
Speaker 2: into discussing the plot but I believe, given that we

983
00:53:44,960 --> 00:53:47,759
Speaker 2: have so much more to talk about, and we're going

984
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:51,160
Speaker 2: to go ahead and cut this episode and we will

985
00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:55,120
Speaker 2: continue this in a part too, in the next installment

986
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:56,080
Speaker 2: of Weird House Cinema.

987
00:53:56,120 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 3: That's right. It gives you plenty of time to watch

988
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,200
Speaker 3: the movie. If you did not heed our warn at

989
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 3: the very beginning and go watch it, then that's right.

990
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 2: We haven't done this with many films. We were talking

991
00:54:04,280 --> 00:54:06,640
Speaker 2: about this before we enrolled here. We did it with

992
00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 2: Highlander two, and we did it with Lynch's Doune. So

993
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,600
Speaker 2: uh uh. Yeah. You know, this is a film that

994
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,720
Speaker 2: I think checks off all the boxes. It's a big film.

995
00:54:17,120 --> 00:54:18,960
Speaker 2: There's a lot that's been said about it. There's a

996
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,120
Speaker 2: lot that we have to say about it. I mean,

997
00:54:21,160 --> 00:54:23,200
Speaker 2: I feel like I could spend a good half hour

998
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:27,440
Speaker 2: just talking about key scenes, such as the scene all

999
00:54:27,480 --> 00:54:29,800
Speaker 2: the scenes that take place in the candy store slash

1000
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 2: post office.

1001
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 3: Oh well, okay, then this is something we should do

1002
00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:35,920
Speaker 3: before we wrap up today's episode. What is your top

1003
00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:40,719
Speaker 3: confection from the post office slash slash candy store in

1004
00:54:40,920 --> 00:54:41,760
Speaker 3: summer Isle Town.

1005
00:54:42,040 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 2: Oh, I mean there's so much. I mean, I love

1006
00:54:44,040 --> 00:54:45,600
Speaker 2: this shop, This is one of those shops that feels

1007
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:49,040
Speaker 2: absolutely real, you know. I imagine they've taken any they took.

1008
00:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,520
Speaker 2: They took an existing shop and in Scotland and uh

1009
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:55,600
Speaker 2: on one the Loton location, and dressed it up and

1010
00:54:55,760 --> 00:54:58,520
Speaker 2: it's just filled with all of these you know, strange

1011
00:54:58,600 --> 00:55:00,960
Speaker 2: pagan treats. Uh.

1012
00:55:01,080 --> 00:55:04,400
Speaker 3: And you're saying they would really feed these nightmare images

1013
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:05,480
Speaker 3: to children.

1014
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,640
Speaker 2: I guess. So you know within you know, in the

1015
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 2: fictional world of the film, Yes, I mean there are

1016
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 2: several key standouts that there is, of course, the baby cake,

1017
00:55:16,080 --> 00:55:19,560
Speaker 2: the kid cake. That's that's an easy favorite I think

1018
00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:22,640
Speaker 2: for anybody. But the closer you look, there are all

1019
00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:26,000
Speaker 2: these other little details. There are little pink elephants. I

1020
00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:29,959
Speaker 2: don't know what the pink elephants represent within their their

1021
00:55:30,040 --> 00:55:33,319
Speaker 2: their rights and observations, but they are there in their

1022
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:37,879
Speaker 2: numerous ones. There are some wonderful frogs or toads. Those

1023
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:39,120
Speaker 2: were my wife's favorites.

1024
00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:43,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, the chocolate rams heads with littless yellow eyes.

1025
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,760
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, there are a number of hairs as well,

1026
00:55:46,760 --> 00:55:50,080
Speaker 2: and some other strange babies that are are in the shop.

1027
00:55:50,680 --> 00:55:52,960
Speaker 2: In addition to this. So I don't know, I've got

1028
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:56,320
Speaker 2: to go with the kid cake or the elephants. Probably

1029
00:55:56,320 --> 00:55:57,680
Speaker 2: the kid cake. It's the kid cake.

1030
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,800
Speaker 3: How about the bride with the wreath of pink flowers

1031
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:03,960
Speaker 3: around her head with the eyes pinned open like Alex

1032
00:56:04,000 --> 00:56:08,799
Speaker 3: in Clockwork? Orange good too? What are they showing that cake?

1033
00:56:09,480 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 3: What does she have to watch? Are they playing the

1034
00:56:12,040 --> 00:56:12,800
Speaker 3: Ludwig band?

1035
00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:16,040
Speaker 2: I think the kid cake has maybe some I'd have

1036
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,080
Speaker 2: to watch the scene again, but based on a still

1037
00:56:18,080 --> 00:56:20,200
Speaker 2: that I pulled up, I think there's like maybe a

1038
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 2: jelly filling to it, which you know is fitting.

1039
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:25,920
Speaker 3: Oh I see that. Yeah, you see them cut it

1040
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:27,239
Speaker 3: open and it's kind of spilling out.

1041
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. Maybe it's like a jam roll jamcake sort of

1042
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:30,680
Speaker 2: a situation. I don't know.

1043
00:56:31,000 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 3: Now. Something that's really confusing is that in may Morrison's

1044
00:56:35,239 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 3: post office slash sweet shop they serve green frog cakes

1045
00:56:40,560 --> 00:56:42,839
Speaker 3: that you eat, But we also see in the same

1046
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 3: shop later she's putting a live green frog in a

1047
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,560
Speaker 3: kid's mouth to cure her of a sore throat.

1048
00:56:47,960 --> 00:56:52,960
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but then that's not candy, that's medicinal. But

1049
00:56:53,000 --> 00:56:55,840
Speaker 2: then she gets the hard candy afterwards as a treat

1050
00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,560
Speaker 2: to sort of like, you know, that's right to get

1051
00:56:57,640 --> 00:56:59,839
Speaker 2: rid of the Taste of the Frog. All right.

1052
00:56:59,880 --> 00:57:02,960
Speaker 3: Well, to learn more about the Sweet Shop and the

1053
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 3: rest of what Samuraile has to offer to the adventurous tourists,

1054
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,520
Speaker 3: you'll have to come back next week for part two

1055
00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:11,360
Speaker 3: of our series on the Wickerman.

1056
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:16,120
Speaker 2: That's right, keep your appointment with the Wickerman next week

1057
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 2: on Weird House Cinema. But in the meantime, we would

1058
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:21,640
Speaker 2: love to hear from you. If you already have thoughts

1059
00:57:21,680 --> 00:57:25,640
Speaker 2: to share about the Wickerman, write in We'd love to

1060
00:57:25,640 --> 00:57:28,400
Speaker 2: hear from you. Let's see. We should remind you that

1061
00:57:28,480 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 2: if you want to follow Weird House Cinema online, we

1062
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 2: have a letterboxed to account. You can find us there.

1063
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,360
Speaker 2: Our username is weird House. We have a nice list

1064
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:38,400
Speaker 2: of all the movies we've covered over the years, sometimes

1065
00:57:38,400 --> 00:57:41,160
Speaker 2: a peek ahead at what's coming up next, and you

1066
00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:45,640
Speaker 2: can also follow us on Instagram at STBYM podcast. We're

1067
00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:48,200
Speaker 2: on some other social networks as well, but those are

1068
00:57:48,240 --> 00:57:49,520
Speaker 2: the main places to follow us.

1069
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:53,840
Speaker 3: Huge thanks as always to our excellent audio producer JJ Posway.

1070
00:57:54,000 --> 00:57:55,560
Speaker 3: If you would like to get in touch with us

1071
00:57:55,560 --> 00:57:58,360
Speaker 3: with feedback on this episode or any other, do suggest

1072
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:00,720
Speaker 3: a topic for the future, or just say Hello. You

1073
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 3: can email us at contact at stuff to Blow Your

1074
00:58:03,480 --> 00:58:11,200
Speaker 3: Mind dot com.

1075
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:14,240
Speaker 1: Stuff to Blow Your Mind is production of iHeartRadio. For

1076
00:58:14,360 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: more podcasts from my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

1077
00:58:17,280 --> 00:58:20,040
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.