WEBVTT - One Shot at the Market 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.560 From the dark corners of the web. An emerging mindset, 0:00:03.760 --> 0:00:06.040 I am a loser if also women know wouldn't pay 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:06.440 me either. 0:00:06.640 --> 0:00:10.879 A hidden world of resentment, cynicism, anger against women at 0:00:10.920 --> 0:00:12.320 a deadly tipping point. 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:15.600 In Cells will be added to the Terrorism Guide. 0:00:16.040 --> 0:00:18.560 I see literally zero hope. 0:00:18.880 --> 0:00:23.000 This is in Cells, a production of Kat's Studios and 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:31.200 iHeartRadio Season one, episode four one shot at the market. 0:00:32.720 --> 0:00:35.720 As much as eighty percent of them cells report thoughts 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:36.640 of suicide. 0:00:36.800 --> 0:00:38.920 I just hate myself. We all hate our self. Women 0:00:38.960 --> 0:00:42.480 our so materialistic, they always choose chads over nice guys 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:42.720 like me. 0:00:44.080 --> 0:00:48.200 I'm Courtney Armstrong, a producer at Kat's Studios. With Stephanie Leideker, 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:54.400 Gabriel Castillo, Connor Powell, and Carolyn Miller. We've been talking 0:00:54.440 --> 0:00:56.840 about in Cells, and now it's time to hear directly 0:00:56.880 --> 0:01:00.200 from them. Three men generously offered to speak with the US, 0:01:00.360 --> 0:01:04.480 and it's important to hear their personal stories. Here's mister East, 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:08.400 who is protecting his identity. The twenty three year old 0:01:08.400 --> 0:01:12.800 describes himself as a longtime lurker of Blackpill in cell spaces. 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:16.000 A lurker is a user of social media or online 0:01:16.000 --> 0:01:21.080 communities who consumes content without actively posting or commenting. The 0:01:21.120 --> 0:01:24.759 majority of us are lurkers. Here's mister East. 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:29.959 I used to lurk on the Forever Loan reddit and 0:01:30.000 --> 0:01:32.440 there was actually a lot of insults from that community 0:01:32.480 --> 0:01:36.120 in particular who like to just post on that subreddit. 0:01:36.600 --> 0:01:38.720 I think it's because a lot of them are they're 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:42.640 pretty like socially isolated, lonely, and yeah, that's how I 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:45.840 got more involved within like this particular sphere. 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:49.960 We asked mister East to tell us a little bit 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:55.160 about his background. He's followed by producer Gabriel Castillo. 0:01:56.160 --> 0:01:59.480 I am East Asian. I am of Chinese descent, so 0:02:00.120 --> 0:02:02.520 might be an issue, especially when I'm living in a 0:02:02.640 --> 0:02:05.720 city that's like majority white. The beauty standards here are 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.560 also white. Here's the fact that I am neurodivergent. I 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:13.440 am like high functioning autistic. It might not show like 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:17.120 when I'm talking with people online, but when I'm in person, 0:02:17.240 --> 0:02:19.000 I am a bit more socially awkward. 0:02:19.200 --> 0:02:20.920 What was your experience like growing up? 0:02:21.120 --> 0:02:24.520 I was pretty much socially isolated throughout my childhood, so 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:27.680 that doesn't really help either. If you're neurodivergent, obviously you're 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:29.720 going to have a lot more trouble getting along with 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.480 people socially, So that's a big factor and a lot 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:39.000 of insult I noticed are neurodivergent to certain degrees, maybe 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:43.560 not like enormously, but enough so that they act more 0:02:43.840 --> 0:02:48.119 socially awkward and they can sense that, and they might 0:02:48.200 --> 0:02:50.840 feel a bit more uncomfortable, or they might think that 0:02:50.919 --> 0:02:55.640 you're weird and not just play into your success. Neurodivergency 0:02:55.800 --> 0:02:58.679 is like, this is like a huge spectrum, but generally 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:04.200 patterns within neurodivergent people are more one way or the other. 0:03:04.520 --> 0:03:08.840 They're less likely to be more compromising as a result, 0:03:09.360 --> 0:03:10.919 be more easily radicalized. 0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:17.360 Mysteries identifies as being black pilled, which in general is 0:03:17.400 --> 0:03:22.560 defined as holding a nihilistic worldview. But here's his personal perspective. 0:03:25.120 --> 0:03:28.200 There's a lot of different definitions on how people see 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:30.640 the black pill, with a lot of people with an 0:03:30.639 --> 0:03:33.000 insult community to see it as in terms of like 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:37.560 dating context, if you don't have the looks, then you're finished. 0:03:37.560 --> 0:03:40.000 Basically you don't stand a chance. I see the blackpill 0:03:40.040 --> 0:03:43.480 more as like a spectrum. Basically, certain traits you have, 0:03:43.560 --> 0:03:46.560 such as looks, you know, wealth, they make it more 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:50.440 likely for you to succeed within a certain context. I 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.680 think in the most part, black pill is more of 0:03:53.760 --> 0:03:58.280 like understanding and acceptance that some aspects of yourself are 0:03:58.800 --> 0:04:01.760 not able to be controlled by you, and these aspects 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:06.360 of yourself may influence your success, and that by no 0:04:06.560 --> 0:04:08.480 means is any fault of your own. 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.320 Would you mind giving me the definition of a red 0:04:11.320 --> 0:04:12.320 pill blue pill as well? 0:04:13.040 --> 0:04:17.279 Well, I mean for red pill. Honestly, I'm I've never 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.080 been part of the like the so called red pill manosphere, 0:04:20.120 --> 0:04:23.520 so I can't really tell you what exactly they believe 0:04:23.560 --> 0:04:25.719 were what they think about. So what the blue pill 0:04:25.760 --> 0:04:29.160 refers to is the idea that of meritocracy. You know, 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:32.839 if you improve yourself, you will succeed. There are some 0:04:33.640 --> 0:04:36.799 areas within the black pill community who are like misogynistic, 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.160 mostly out of anger and like frustration of their failures 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:44.080 and like things that can't control. It also is largely 0:04:44.200 --> 0:04:47.640 motivated by, like the blue pill gas lighting that occurs 0:04:47.680 --> 0:04:50.560 within society at large. You just got to work hard, 0:04:50.560 --> 0:04:52.080 you just got to grind, You just got to like 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:55.679 make money and like, you know, get bitches, so to speak. 0:04:56.000 --> 0:05:01.240 Despite what popular consensus believes it does, really heavily depend 0:05:01.400 --> 0:05:05.840 on your looks and your ability to basically socialize. I mean, 0:05:05.920 --> 0:05:09.880 I am involuntarily celibate by the definition of the word, 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.720 but I'm not as bothered by it as some people 0:05:13.760 --> 0:05:14.760 within the community are. 0:05:17.600 --> 0:05:20.480 We asked mister East what he thought the information available 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:23.480 online and in the media has done to the term in. 0:05:23.560 --> 0:05:30.279 Cell, society at large, and in popular media in general. 0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:34.960 They've kind of twisted the term into like something that 0:05:35.040 --> 0:05:39.920 refers to someone who is misogynistic. And I feel like 0:05:40.080 --> 0:05:44.039 a lot of online like feminist types has furthered that 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:48.600 to like any man I disagree with, and I think 0:05:49.200 --> 0:05:53.000 that in a long term is only going to play 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:58.360 into polarizing men from women, furthering the gender divide. Also, 0:05:58.440 --> 0:06:02.240 I find it quite funny because in cell means involuntarily celibate, 0:06:02.440 --> 0:06:06.200 which means you can't get sex, no bitches. So basically 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:11.560 you're insulting someone for their sexual value and sexual experience. 0:06:11.680 --> 0:06:15.640 And for society that supposedly says, oh, you're not having sex, 0:06:15.800 --> 0:06:18.360 you're not sexually successful, that that's fine. You know, you're 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:20.960 worrying about it too much. They very quickly used it 0:06:21.040 --> 0:06:21.760 as an insult. 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:28.080 When mysteries talks about misconceptions. He's pointing to something deeper. 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:32.000 The term in cell has been distorted, often used as 0:06:32.000 --> 0:06:35.400 a catch all insult. He sees this as widening the 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:37.840 divide between men and women in a world shape by 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:39.640 unrealistic expectations. 0:06:41.320 --> 0:06:44.440 There are actually a lot of mixed misconceptions in general. 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:50.640 I think the popular media tends to lump together red pill, 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.280 black pill, and just in cells all into one like 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:57.280 group of in cells, which is basically just what they 0:06:57.320 --> 0:07:01.680 believe are like misogynistic and green lonely men who can't 0:07:01.800 --> 0:07:06.760 get a girlfriend will. While I think that's highly ingenuous, 0:07:06.800 --> 0:07:10.240 and there is certain aspects such as social media does 0:07:10.400 --> 0:07:13.520 cause like an unreal expectation in a way for a 0:07:13.600 --> 0:07:17.040 potential romantic partners. So I think as this happens, more 0:07:17.080 --> 0:07:21.720 and more men might find themselves embroiled within this space. 0:07:21.920 --> 0:07:25.720 And I think society does need to do more to 0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:27.800 address these types of issues. 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.880 We asked mister East if you thought some men fell 0:07:32.960 --> 0:07:34.640 into in sell communities. 0:07:36.240 --> 0:07:39.280 Society doesn't tell everyone just be nice, just be confident, 0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:43.320 you will succeed if you do all that. Obviously, for 0:07:43.600 --> 0:07:47.320 many people that might not work, so they might be confused, 0:07:47.640 --> 0:07:50.640 They might be like, why isn't this working? That's when 0:07:50.680 --> 0:07:52.720 they start searching online. 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:54.480 What a community is. 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:58.000 As marginalized as the black pills. I think it is 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:01.080 more difficult for a lot of to really take in 0:08:01.280 --> 0:08:03.200 any outside messaging. 0:08:03.520 --> 0:08:08.240 Have you found more good relationships or bad relationships within 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:09.520 the community When. 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:13.520 You don't have any real life relationships and you instead 0:08:13.960 --> 0:08:16.760 spend all your times within these echo chambers that are 0:08:16.840 --> 0:08:21.160 just born from people's pain and anger and frustration, it 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:25.960 does cause many people to become more and more radicalized, 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:31.320 and basically online is like a replacement for real life loneliness. 0:08:31.400 --> 0:08:33.360 You will still feel lonely even if you are a 0:08:33.400 --> 0:08:36.560 part of these communities. But there's also like some that 0:08:36.600 --> 0:08:39.120 are like, you know, it's over. I just hate myself. 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:42.240 We all hate our self. Women are so materialistic they 0:08:42.240 --> 0:08:44.679 always choose chads over nice guys like me. 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:50.520 Mysteries talks about what he sees as made up social 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:54.920 groups and what he calls the inceell versus normally conflict, 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:59.520 enormous slang for a normal, ordinary person who appears to 0:08:59.559 --> 0:09:02.440 form romantic and sexual relationships easily. 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:08.240 There are studies that show that people will like human 0:09:08.240 --> 0:09:12.920 beings in general, will automatically form groups. If they aren't 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.880 part of an already existing group, they will form artificial 0:09:16.920 --> 0:09:21.680 groups to make themselves feel included. I think in a way, 0:09:22.280 --> 0:09:27.760 what this current like in cell versus normy conflict is 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:31.920 is that artificial groups are forming, whether you are an 0:09:31.960 --> 0:09:34.800 insult or whether you are a normy, And when these 0:09:34.840 --> 0:09:38.040 types of groups form, people are more likely to see 0:09:38.679 --> 0:09:42.560 outside groups as a monolis. Basically, I think that's what 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:48.240 contributes to like inceels seeing all normies as just bluepill brainwashed, 0:09:48.280 --> 0:09:52.400 and like normally seeing in cells as all just misogynistic 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:54.160 terrors mass shooters. 0:09:54.360 --> 0:09:54.560 Right. 0:09:55.200 --> 0:09:59.000 And I've seen a lot of like in cell interviews 0:09:59.360 --> 0:10:04.000 online because they are also anonymous online, they're more bold. 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:07.280 If I were female conducting this interview, or if I 0:10:07.320 --> 0:10:09.200 was a female who was reaching out to all these people, 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:11.720 would the reciprocation be very different. 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.680 Gender would probably play a certain factor, even if a 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:20.000 lot of people wouldn't admit it, because subconsciously you're not 0:10:20.080 --> 0:10:22.400 only part of the normal out group, You're also part 0:10:22.400 --> 0:10:25.520 of the female, which is an how their group. So 0:10:25.960 --> 0:10:28.200 I think people might be more wary if you are 0:10:28.440 --> 0:10:29.320 female nor me. 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:32.280 What advice would you give to someone younger who is 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:37.480 beginning to feel isolated or turning towards these spaces. Any 0:10:37.520 --> 0:10:38.480 advice that you'd like to. 0:10:38.400 --> 0:10:42.760 Give, honestly, not really. I feel like it's kind of 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:45.079 inevitable for a lot of people to run into these 0:10:45.120 --> 0:10:49.280 types of spaces, especially if they're socially isolated. In order 0:10:49.320 --> 0:10:52.319 for young people to not fall into this rabbit hole 0:10:52.400 --> 0:10:55.480 or like not to be as misogynistic as they may 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:59.640 turn out to be, I think it's more society to change. 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.560 And I do appreciate, like while you just like, you know, 0:11:03.679 --> 0:11:05.960 trying to see the other side. I feel like a 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:08.079 lot of people they kind of DEMONI as a community 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.960 and like make it look bad and what it actually is, 0:11:11.480 --> 0:11:15.000 especially for like a lot of men who already already 0:11:15.120 --> 0:11:19.120 like see themselves like socially isolated, might feel more bad 0:11:19.160 --> 0:11:23.400 about themselves. And I feel it's important to get this 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:24.680 side of the story as well. 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:31.960 M let's stop here for a break. We'll be back 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:55.200 in a moment. We'll continue sharing interviews with two other 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.400 self identifying in cells, but we wanted to step back 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:01.880 for a moment for a broader perspect We spoke with 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:06.240 doctor Lay, a clinical psychologist, sex therapist, and author of 0:12:06.320 --> 0:12:11.000 multiple books doctor Lay fills us in on some current statistics. 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:15.000 I would say we have a fair bit of data 0:12:15.120 --> 0:12:18.439 at this point about who the typical in cell is. 0:12:18.800 --> 0:12:24.880 The majority of them look to be in their mid twenties, males, heterosexual, 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:29.320 typically childless. Of course, a majority of in cells in 0:12:29.360 --> 0:12:32.240 the US and the United Kingdom are white, but a 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:36.000 substantial percentage of in cells, perhaps as many as forty percent, 0:12:36.200 --> 0:12:40.880 identify as people of color. Research on in cells suggests 0:12:40.880 --> 0:12:44.920 that there may be between forty and a few hundred 0:12:45.080 --> 0:12:49.080 thousand kind of self identified in cells at any given time. 0:12:49.640 --> 0:12:53.200 It looks like there's around twenty five thousand active and 0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:57.280 participating in online in cell forums. 0:12:59.600 --> 0:13:02.560 Based on loose math we did, which is consistent with 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:06.080 the report out from the UK government, approximately one point 0:13:06.120 --> 0:13:08.920 six percent of men between the ages of eighteen and 0:13:09.120 --> 0:13:13.120 thirty identify as in cells. That's between one and two 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:20.840 out of every one hundred men. In earlier episodes, we 0:13:20.880 --> 0:13:25.800 talked about violent cases, the absolute worst outcomes. These events happened, 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:28.120 and the families of the victims are still living with 0:13:28.160 --> 0:13:33.120 the repercussions. However, it's important to remember that violence in 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:37.080 in cell communities is extremely rare. Doctor Lay walks us 0:13:37.080 --> 0:13:39.040 through some of the details. 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.720 When it comes to violence, though, it's really important to 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:47.600 understand that while the in cell community is perceived as 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:53.720 being extremely violent and their rhetoric is often violent and misogynistic, 0:13:54.000 --> 0:13:57.240 it is relatively rare, actually quite rare, for inzels to 0:13:57.440 --> 0:14:01.000 actually engage in violence. There have certainly been some horrific 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:06.600 tragedies with violent acts by insel individuals, but to date, 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:11.840 fewer than sixty people worldwide have died by inceell violence. 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.440 When you compare that to the violence related to terrorism, 0:14:15.679 --> 0:14:22.000 to ideological divides over religion, over white supremacy, et cetera, 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:24.800 insel violence just doesn't measure up. 0:14:27.920 --> 0:14:30.640 A lot of in cels are struggling. Rates of social 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:34.520 anxiety and depression are especially high, and many report dealing 0:14:34.520 --> 0:14:38.040 with mental health challenges of all kinds. Doctor Lay breaks 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:40.120 it down with some statistics. 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:48.200 Like all complicated human behaviors, these issues intermingle and interact 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:51.240 in terms of cause and effect. It's important to know 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:55.160 that there are extremely high levels of mental health struggles 0:14:55.200 --> 0:14:58.440 in the in cell community, very significant rates of depression 0:14:58.520 --> 0:15:02.240 and autism. Around thirty five to forty percent of in 0:15:02.440 --> 0:15:06.080 cells appear to have very serious depression. Around twenty to 0:15:06.120 --> 0:15:09.840 forty percent may have autism or autistic symptoms. It's important 0:15:09.840 --> 0:15:12.480 to note only around one percent of the general population 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:16.160 has autism, so this indicates a really significant kind of 0:15:16.240 --> 0:15:22.760 predisposing factor that we Obviously autism would precede identifying as 0:15:22.800 --> 0:15:27.400 an insel, but then as individuals with these mental health 0:15:27.440 --> 0:15:32.200 conditions interact in these online communities, it starts to reinforce 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:35.120 some of these aspects and symptoms of mental health problems, 0:15:35.160 --> 0:15:38.520 oftentimes exacerbating them. 0:15:38.840 --> 0:15:41.480 We want to be absolutely clear, we are in no 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:45.080 way suggesting that having autism means someone is an insul. 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:49.400 What we're doing is sharing information pointing out signs that 0:15:49.520 --> 0:15:52.680 may help identify when someone is at risk of struggling. 0:15:53.520 --> 0:16:00.400 With more on that, here's doctor lay Zidal. 0:16:00.440 --> 0:16:04.520 Ideation appears to be extremely common in the in cell community. 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:07.520 As much as eighty percent of in cells report thoughts 0:16:07.560 --> 0:16:11.920 of suicide. It appears these mental vulnerabilities and struggles not 0:16:11.960 --> 0:16:16.160 only precede their identification as an insul, but also impact 0:16:16.240 --> 0:16:20.520 their success in dating their confidence, anxiety, social ability to 0:16:20.600 --> 0:16:24.800 interact and seek out partners, et cetera. What's more interesting, though, 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:30.280 is that these vulnerabilities increase the risk of men becoming 0:16:30.800 --> 0:16:35.920 more ideological in the in cell community. And as they 0:16:36.000 --> 0:16:40.680 become more engaged in the in cell community, and they 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:43.880 may experience what it's called identity fusion, where they take 0:16:43.960 --> 0:16:48.280 on the identity of this community as a significant part 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.760 of their own identity. As that occurs with these mental 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:59.160 predisposing vulnerabilities, they become more and more prone to engaging 0:16:59.360 --> 0:17:04.880 in or espousing violence. So we see all of these 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:09.679 things interacting, feeding on each other in a dangerous kind 0:17:09.680 --> 0:17:10.480 of feedback loop. 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:16.080 Doctor Lay says the pull of the in cell community 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:21.440 can become deeply personal, where loneliness and ideology blur outside 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:25.680 the data, those struggles sound different when you hear them firsthand. Sven, 0:17:25.800 --> 0:17:28.840 a self identified inseel in his early forties, offers a 0:17:28.840 --> 0:17:33.440 more introspective view. It's a completely different perspective than anything 0:17:33.440 --> 0:17:38.040 we've previously encountered. He spoke with investigative journalist Connor Powell 0:17:38.119 --> 0:17:40.200 about his relationship history with women. 0:17:44.760 --> 0:17:49.040 As far as romantic relationships go, I have had several, 0:17:49.200 --> 0:17:53.240 but they're very short lived. I was actually married in 0:17:53.320 --> 0:17:57.359 twenty twenty for a whopping three days. We're together, I 0:17:57.359 --> 0:17:59.600 guess for about a month. Got married, She disappeared after 0:17:59.640 --> 0:18:02.679 day three, never saw her again, got annulled, never had 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.639 a divorce, And that was one of my longer relationships 0:18:06.800 --> 0:18:11.520 that They've been very few and very fast, like they 0:18:11.520 --> 0:18:12.640 appear and then disappear. 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:17.200 That's there common theme for how the relationships end. 0:18:17.640 --> 0:18:21.760 I would say probably all different because someone else who 0:18:21.840 --> 0:18:24.679 I briefly dated, I found out the entire time that 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:27.320 she was married. She was kind of leading me on, 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:31.000 and I didn't see through that because she had children 0:18:31.119 --> 0:18:33.399 and I hung out with her and her children, and 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.879 it never crossed my mind that she literally coached her 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:39.160 children to lie to both her husband and to myself, 0:18:39.359 --> 0:18:42.920 and it just baffled my mind. But when I confronted 0:18:42.920 --> 0:18:45.000 her and after I found out she was married, she 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:47.280 admitted to it. There's a part of me that wants 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.879 to be understanding and say, well, you know, there's something 0:18:49.960 --> 0:18:52.560 in her life, in her upbringing that led her to 0:18:52.760 --> 0:18:54.840 think that that kind of behavior is okay. But on 0:18:54.880 --> 0:18:57.240 the other hand, like, where does that leave me? 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.600 Explains what brought him into the black pill sphere? 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:06.920 This is where it gets frustrating. So I'm going to 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:09.520 kind of build myself up and then insult myself but 0:19:09.920 --> 0:19:12.240 you know, I'm a six foot four, very athletic mail 0:19:12.320 --> 0:19:14.080 I've had points in my life when I've made lots 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:17.040 of money. Objectively, I don't think I'm any kind of 0:19:17.040 --> 0:19:20.119 good looking, but I've consistently heard from people like, oh, 0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.199 you're so great looking genetically. I have literally never had 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:25.760 a health problem, so on paper, I should be the 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:26.600 perfect specimen. 0:19:26.960 --> 0:19:27.879 And yet that has. 0:19:27.760 --> 0:19:31.560 Brought me to a very solid acceptance of the fact 0:19:31.640 --> 0:19:35.040 that I know I'm going to dialogue because now I've 0:19:35.080 --> 0:19:36.320 gotten to the point of my life and this is 0:19:36.359 --> 0:19:38.520 where I step into. I guess that sort of a 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.639 black pilled sphere is to say that I'm jaded enough 0:19:42.960 --> 0:19:45.159 that seeing how things have gone in the past, that 0:19:45.240 --> 0:19:49.359 I may even turn down opportunities if they presented themselves. 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:52.840 But I still call myself an insult because the opportunities 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:54.480 are not presenting themselves to turn down. 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.960 How would you just your lifestyle in terms of is 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:03.040 it severely online? 0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:04.119 Is it a little bit online? 0:20:04.200 --> 0:20:07.679 Not that much, It's very rarely online. I kind of 0:20:07.880 --> 0:20:12.080 become kind of old man in that I've very much 0:20:12.080 --> 0:20:14.639 in a rhythm. You know, I go to work, do 0:20:14.800 --> 0:20:17.919 my time, come back, try to work out, eat, go 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:21.439 to sleep. As far as connecting with people, I always 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.800 kind of had. I don't know if it's the late 0:20:23.840 --> 0:20:27.000 twentieth century mindset of like you go to a bar, 0:20:27.119 --> 0:20:29.520 you could meet someone there, so on and so forth. 0:20:30.680 --> 0:20:33.439 Ven reflects on what it actually means to identify as 0:20:33.440 --> 0:20:36.480 an insul and whether or not he sees the label 0:20:36.520 --> 0:20:37.920 itself as an insult. 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:41.720 I don't view it as derogatory, although this is probably 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:45.440 very hypocritical of me. But one sort of term I've 0:20:45.560 --> 0:20:49.520 used even derogatorily myself is viewing someone as, say a 0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:52.359 shut in, i e. You try to avoid the world 0:20:52.680 --> 0:20:56.240 or don't get out, don't socialize. I would normally want 0:20:56.280 --> 0:20:59.600 to encourage you go out, talk to people, so on 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:01.800 and so on. Then it ends up being kind of 0:21:01.880 --> 0:21:04.280 hypocritical because I do try to do that a lot. 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:07.879 I try to be extremely social. I love social settings. 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:11.439 But you know, I had that mindset for a while 0:21:11.560 --> 0:21:14.280 with bars, like I wanted to go talk to women, 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:18.040 see where things would go, but never actually had anything 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:22.040 turn into more than just a little conversation. You mentioned 0:21:22.040 --> 0:21:24.560 about people living online is kind of killing it in 0:21:24.600 --> 0:21:28.600 a different way because people who maybe once used to 0:21:28.640 --> 0:21:31.720 go to bars to meet people are now strictly on tender. 0:21:32.200 --> 0:21:33.760 That's why you end up going to bars. And there's 0:21:33.840 --> 0:21:35.400 the three old guys in the corner. 0:21:35.600 --> 0:21:37.840 One of the other recurring themes that you see. 0:21:38.000 --> 0:21:39.880 And I actually think it seems to. 0:21:39.800 --> 0:21:44.639 Be younger men, but there's a real anger and frustration 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:47.960 with women, frustration that maybe turns the anger. Talk to 0:21:48.000 --> 0:21:50.560 a couple men who are sort of more in your age, 0:21:50.720 --> 0:21:54.200 you know, late thirties, early forties. They talk about loneliness, 0:21:54.320 --> 0:21:56.000 not anger, maybe frustration. 0:21:57.160 --> 0:21:59.440 I would absolutely say a frustration. 0:22:00.160 --> 0:22:03.560 And I have had feelings that you could call anger, 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.920 but don't I don't sit with some kind of simmering disdain. 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:10.720 Did you have this mentality in your teens in early 0:22:10.800 --> 0:22:13.320 twenties or is this the belt. 0:22:12.760 --> 0:22:16.720 The acceptance of basically like I'm going to dialan or 0:22:16.720 --> 0:22:18.760 I'm going to be alone for forever, so on so 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:22.199 forth is more recent. You're constantly told that you know 0:22:22.280 --> 0:22:24.480 you'll find the right you know things will work out, 0:22:24.640 --> 0:22:28.000 you'll have your own family. But then when I've had 0:22:28.240 --> 0:22:32.480 basically twenty years of actively trying to do that, and 0:22:32.520 --> 0:22:34.800 I've had periods when I haven't and I've waited because 0:22:35.000 --> 0:22:37.760 you know, supposedly. Everyone also tells you it's when you 0:22:37.760 --> 0:22:40.560 stop looking that's when it will happen. First of all, 0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:43.280 that's not how life works. If you want something, you 0:22:43.280 --> 0:22:44.879 have to work for it. You can't just say I 0:22:44.920 --> 0:22:46.400 want to be rich, let me sit back and wait 0:22:46.440 --> 0:22:49.160 for it. I've done both, like, I've tried very hard. 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:52.800 I've done the dating sides. I've been social. I've worked 0:22:52.800 --> 0:22:56.800 out to the point, you know, probably beyond the purview 0:22:56.840 --> 0:22:59.639 of what you're wanting to touch on. But I you know, 0:22:59.680 --> 0:23:02.439 I have six back, But I don't really feel that 0:23:02.480 --> 0:23:05.440 it comes down to that. There's an aspect of luck, 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:07.199 like I almost feel like I'm cursed. 0:23:07.800 --> 0:23:11.480 As I've been talking to people about what the frustrations are, 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:14.280 and you know, some of its heights, some of its baldness, 0:23:14.280 --> 0:23:18.520 some of its social awkwardness. There are themes, but there's 0:23:18.560 --> 0:23:23.480 also just this sort of feeling of hopelessness I guess 0:23:23.520 --> 0:23:27.400 in one's own situation, and everyone has a different situation. 0:23:27.640 --> 0:23:28.840 I mean, is that sort of. 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:31.800 Accurate baldness and so forth. 0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:36.280 These don't resonate with me because they're not physical accuracies 0:23:36.320 --> 0:23:38.920 in my case, but the sense of hopelessness, at least 0:23:38.920 --> 0:23:42.080 as far as do I have any hope of anything 0:23:42.240 --> 0:23:45.000 in a romantic or I guess you know the term 0:23:45.040 --> 0:23:48.200 celibate relates specifically to the sexual connotations. 0:23:48.760 --> 0:23:50.520 I have zero. 0:23:50.359 --> 0:23:53.119 Hope for myself in either of those regards. So the 0:23:53.200 --> 0:23:56.280 sense of hopelessness, I would say, is very accurate. And 0:23:56.359 --> 0:24:00.399 so certainly when it comes to relationships and stuff, I 0:24:00.520 --> 0:24:04.600 use the term blackpill because I see literally zero hope, 0:24:04.800 --> 0:24:09.000 zero return on investment in any effort that goes into it. 0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:14.240 What are my options in twenty twenty five. Option A, 0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:18.359 try to go to a bar. Option B, try to 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:21.360 open up some dating sites, start doing a little swiping 0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:26.480 or whatever. Or Option C just say screw it, you know, 0:24:26.840 --> 0:24:29.800