WEBVTT - IN DEPTH: Europe’s Economic Challenges 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:03.159 I'm Stephen Caroll of the Bloomberg New Economy Gateway Europe 0:00:03.160 --> 0:00:05.360 event at the Powers Court of State just south of 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:07.480 Dublin in Ireland. We've been here for the past few 0:00:07.560 --> 0:00:10.880 days having some really interesting conversations about the big issues 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:13.320 facing the continent of Europe, and we want to bring 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:16.560 you some highlights from those interviews in this special podcast. 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:19.360 Let's start with one of the most important people in 0:00:19.400 --> 0:00:22.079 Europe when it comes to tech regulation. Helen Dixon is 0:00:22.120 --> 0:00:25.919 Ireland's Data Protection Commissioner. She's the point person when it 0:00:25.960 --> 0:00:28.400 comes to enforcing the EU's data rules. 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:30.000 For the big US tech companies. 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:33.400 You have an absolutely massive job in enforcing the gold 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:36.159 standard of Global Data Protection Rules GDPR. 0:00:36.320 --> 0:00:37.199 The e rules in. 0:00:37.159 --> 0:00:39.640 This area give us an idea of the scale of 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:42.599 the work that your office does in terms of monitoring 0:00:42.680 --> 0:00:43.960 these big names in tech. 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:46.680 Well, the scale of the job is vast. Exactly as 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.080 you said, the form of one stop shop that was 0:00:49.120 --> 0:00:52.120 set up under the GDPR means that the regulator in 0:00:52.159 --> 0:00:55.920 the country in which a company's main established is the 0:00:56.000 --> 0:00:59.720 lead regulator for Europe. I suppose because we're English speaking 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:04.959 in Ireland, we have a young workforce and Ireland attracts 0:01:05.000 --> 0:01:08.319 many of these companies. We have by default at the 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.720 Irish Data Protection Commission ended up with the line's share 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:17.319 of responsibility and work under the GDPR. You named out 0:01:17.920 --> 0:01:20.440 some of the big companies that are located here, but 0:01:20.520 --> 0:01:24.760 also smaller platforms are located here like Dropbox, Salesforce that 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:30.200 are less spoken about. So on a daily basis, the 0:01:30.360 --> 0:01:33.640 role of the Irish Data Protection Commission is both to 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:38.560 handle complaints from individuals, often about these platforms that you mentioned, 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:41.400 but also to look at the more systemic issues, to 0:01:41.480 --> 0:01:45.160 look at breaches notified by the platforms themselves to us, 0:01:45.200 --> 0:01:49.840 but also to look at media reporting, academic reporting, issues 0:01:49.920 --> 0:01:54.240 that come to light through other regulators that may need investigation. 0:01:54.920 --> 0:01:57.560 So at this point in time we have over twenty 0:01:57.800 --> 0:02:03.760 large scale investigations ongoing into various aspects of the different platforms. 0:02:04.160 --> 0:02:08.120 We're looking at issues like data protection by design and 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:12.040 default in terms of how the platforms are engineered. We're 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.760 looking at very technical issues like legal basis that's been used. 0:02:16.080 --> 0:02:19.799 We're looking at whether it's transparency to users. I should 0:02:19.880 --> 0:02:23.239 say the GDPR is now coming up to five years 0:02:23.320 --> 0:02:28.160 in application. Last year was the biggest year for enforcement 0:02:28.280 --> 0:02:31.840 of the GDPR to date probably not a surprise as 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:35.519 some of the large scale investigations come to conclusion of 0:02:35.760 --> 0:02:40.280 that record year for enforcement. Last year, two thirds of 0:02:40.360 --> 0:02:43.880 the enforcement was delivered by the Irish Data Protection Commission. 0:02:44.240 --> 0:02:47.799 Across the EU, UK and EA over a billion in 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:51.360 fines levied, So that gives you some idea of the scale. 0:02:51.600 --> 0:02:53.880 And of course it's not all about enforcement either. 0:02:54.280 --> 0:02:56.799 Is your office a match for some of the richest 0:02:56.800 --> 0:02:57.720 companies in the world. 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:00.919 We are a match for the rich companies in the world, 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:04.840 and we've demonstrated that through key cases that have already 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:08.839 been concluded and through litigation that has already happened. You'll 0:03:08.919 --> 0:03:12.480 recall that my office in twenty sixteen, on foot of 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:16.200 a long standing complaint about this issue of EU to 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:20.400 USA transfers of personal data, made an application to the 0:03:20.440 --> 0:03:23.799 High Court seeking a reference to the CJU, which we 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:27.519 obtained in order to have the CJU rule on the 0:03:27.639 --> 0:03:30.840 validity of the legal instrument that was being used. And 0:03:31.000 --> 0:03:34.360 all along the way we saw Facebook challenge the DPC 0:03:34.639 --> 0:03:37.720 right up to the Supreme Court on that and we succeeded. 0:03:38.040 --> 0:03:39.800 So we are a match. 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.120 Of course, it's a never ending battle. 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.000 And the scale is vasts. 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:46.640 In the past though about the resources that your office 0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:48.440 has to be able to do that is that issue 0:03:48.480 --> 0:03:49.080 being addressed. 0:03:49.600 --> 0:03:52.240 The issue is being addressed a year on year. The 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:56.320 government has granted us more budget, so the issue is 0:03:56.560 --> 0:04:02.120 necessarily a commitment to budget. It is around absorbtive capacity 0:04:02.200 --> 0:04:05.120 when you're increasing the size of a very niche specialist 0:04:05.240 --> 0:04:08.560 organization like the Data Protection Commission, and it can be 0:04:08.680 --> 0:04:12.680 around the availability of resources. So we've found innovative ways 0:04:12.720 --> 0:04:15.520 as the years go by. As well as expanding our 0:04:15.600 --> 0:04:18.200 staff now to over two hundred experts that we have 0:04:18.400 --> 0:04:22.479 directly employed, we've also put in place contracts for services 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:25.200 so that we can draw down in particular state of 0:04:25.240 --> 0:04:30.640 the art technology and forensic services as required in investigations. 0:04:30.680 --> 0:04:33.120 And that's sensible because it means we're always up to date. 0:04:33.680 --> 0:04:35.400 I want to ask you about some of the investigations 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:40.440 that you've been working on TikTok's processing of children's personal data. 0:04:40.680 --> 0:04:43.160 Has there any progress made agreeing with other EU member 0:04:43.200 --> 0:04:44.200 states on a penalty for that. 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:47.920 No, there hasn't, but I suppose we've come to a 0:04:48.000 --> 0:04:50.960 point of certainty that we cannot reach agreement with the 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.240 two and there were only two data protection authorities that 0:04:54.360 --> 0:04:58.360 objected to elements of our decision on that, a German 0:04:58.440 --> 0:05:01.760 authority and the Italian authority. We spent several months trying 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:05.760 to reach a point of agreement and consensus with them. 0:05:06.279 --> 0:05:09.920 We have not achieved that, so we have now invited 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:13.440 TikTok to make its submissions on the objection so that 0:05:13.520 --> 0:05:17.320 we can transfer the file to this dispute resolution mechanism 0:05:17.400 --> 0:05:20.359 under the GDP or so we'll have a final conclusion 0:05:20.440 --> 0:05:23.320 on that in a short number of months. 0:05:23.640 --> 0:05:26.960 That was Helen Dixon, Ireland's Data Protection Commissioner. So from 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:29.440 regulating tech to funding it. Elaine Cochlan is the co 0:05:29.560 --> 0:05:32.280 founder and managing partner at Atlantic Bridge. They have a 0:05:32.360 --> 0:05:35.359 billion euros and capital under management and investments in one 0:05:35.440 --> 0:05:38.640 hundred companies. After the financial turmoil of recent weeks and 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:41.320 the backdrop of higher interest rates, we've been discussing the 0:05:41.440 --> 0:05:44.760 investment and funding landscape for European tech companies with her. 0:05:45.200 --> 0:05:48.680 Your focus is technology. A lot of the sectors that 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:51.280 European countries are very interested in now, the likes of 0:05:51.320 --> 0:05:55.800 semiconductors and quantum computing. How much have those sectors been 0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.839 affected by the downturn that we're talking about more broadly 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:00.640 the economy. 0:06:00.920 --> 0:06:03.480 Well, absolutely there has been an in fact, we're probably 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.960 more than twelve months now into the slowdown in the 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.880 downturn in the technology industry. But you're absolutely right to 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:12.880 highlight sectors. So it is not across the board. What 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:14.800 I would say is about two years ago the biotech 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:18.440 industry started to have quite a pullback in terms of 0:06:18.520 --> 0:06:23.120 valuations post COVID, and also, you know, investment and technology 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:25.559 obviously with the you know, with the fangs et cetera 0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:28.440 in early twenty twenty two, and that in private markets 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:31.040 fed into are in public markets fed into the private markets, 0:06:31.560 --> 0:06:35.920 but a lot of it around consumer bt C tech, obviously, 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.840 social media, you know, e commerce, all of those sectors 0:06:39.920 --> 0:06:43.160 that got a massive run up through COVID. If you 0:06:43.200 --> 0:06:51.160 look at the fundamental technology sectors of foundational technologies, quantum, semiconductors, cybersecurity, 0:06:52.080 --> 0:06:55.120 those areas actually have performed very well and there's still 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:58.200 a lot of investor demand. So it is a tough market. 0:06:59.000 --> 0:07:02.920 The difficult equity markets last year followed by now, as 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:08.160 you said, the SVB collapse has definitely dented confidence and 0:07:08.720 --> 0:07:12.320 so now we have you know, a difficult situation in 0:07:12.440 --> 0:07:15.480 raising both equity. Companies have both raising equity and this 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:20.040 so it is in the short term a difficult market. However, 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:22.880 in the nearer term and the longer term, I would 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:26.480 be very positive because for those particular sectors that we 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.800 just talked about, because of the involvement of new entrance 0:07:29.840 --> 0:07:32.680 into the market, which across Europe is government and also 0:07:32.760 --> 0:07:34.000 in the US. 0:07:33.920 --> 0:07:36.480 Which is interesting because you think government funding is going 0:07:36.560 --> 0:07:39.240 to squeeze businesses like yours. If you're the one who 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:43.360 would in traditionally have been involved in fundraising or investing 0:07:43.400 --> 0:07:45.880 in these companies, are you being squeezed out. 0:07:45.760 --> 0:07:46.520 By government money? 0:07:47.280 --> 0:07:49.720 No, far from it, because I think the fundamental problem 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:53.080 which sometimes it takes a crisis or a catastrophe for 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:55.200 us to make the right decisions. But if you look 0:07:55.200 --> 0:07:59.640 at historically in European companies great research, great research institutions, 0:07:59.720 --> 0:08:02.800 great educational institutions, some of the top universities in the world, 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:06.480 all in the EU and in the UK. But wherever 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:08.960 we've struggled is in scaling up those companies. And the 0:08:09.160 --> 0:08:12.200 US out invests US by four to one in all 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:15.000 of those companies. So every dollar we put into the 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:17.600 companies in Europe. The US is putting in four. So 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:20.280 if you add up things like the EU Chips Act 0:08:20.320 --> 0:08:23.280 and the Green Deal and the EIC programs and the 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.120 climate programs that the EU has brought out in the 0:08:26.200 --> 0:08:28.600 last two years alone, there's about one point five trillion 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:31.320 of capital that is going to be deployed over the 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:34.480 next five to eight years in these sectors, and that 0:08:34.679 --> 0:08:38.319 is going to make a phenomenal difference to the development 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:42.880 and scaling of companies, knowledge intensive companies in Europe in 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.120 those sectors. And of course we now have supply chain 0:08:46.200 --> 0:08:50.680 resilience as a key concern, strategic sovereign autonomy and key sectors. 0:08:51.320 --> 0:08:56.400 These are all really important. So the government involvement along 0:08:56.440 --> 0:08:59.319 with the private industry, along with the industry is going 0:08:59.400 --> 0:09:01.760 to mean that Europe has a great chance of building champions. 0:09:02.240 --> 0:09:04.880 Yeah, but can those companies be international or European wide 0:09:04.960 --> 0:09:08.120 champions Because we've traditionally seen, particularly in the tech sector, 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:10.760 companies having to go to the US to expand beyond 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:11.560 a certain level. 0:09:11.640 --> 0:09:12.560 Is that going to change? 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:17.440 I think if companies and founders have access to capital 0:09:17.679 --> 0:09:21.240 within Europe for that scale up, peace it will be 0:09:21.559 --> 0:09:24.559 less essential. I suppose for them right now, they've no 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:27.160 alternative because a lot of If you look at the 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:30.800 size of the VC markets Europe has actually dramatically improved 0:09:30.840 --> 0:09:33.679 over the last few years. The US VC market is 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.360 about two hundred and thirty three billion, and we almost 0:09:36.360 --> 0:09:38.280 crossed one hundred billion in Europe for the first time 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:38.720 last year. 0:09:38.840 --> 0:09:40.360 Can I briefly ask you about listings. 0:09:40.559 --> 0:09:42.839 We've been talking a lot about ARM, for example, choosing 0:09:42.880 --> 0:09:44.560 to list in the US rather than the UK. 0:09:44.880 --> 0:09:46.520 Can that change? Our company's always going to have to 0:09:46.520 --> 0:09:47.240 go to the US to list. 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.679 It's a fundamental part of the problem in Europe. I 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:52.959 think ARM is a symptom of a much deeper, deeper 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:56.440 problem that we have in Europe. And Minister Pascalodnahuo, our 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.480 finance minister here and Eurogroup president last night spoke about 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.640 capital market union and the banking union that needs to 0:10:02.679 --> 0:10:06.959 happen in Europe. So if you look at London losing ARM. 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.320 If ARM does not list in London, it's somewhere between 0:10:09.360 --> 0:10:12.000 a thirty and seventy billion market cap, I think that'll 0:10:12.080 --> 0:10:14.400 be a terrible loss for the UK and for Europe. 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:17.560 A semiconductor company with probably the deepest pool of ip 0:10:17.760 --> 0:10:20.840 and talent in the world, and if we look at 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:24.880 companies like CRH and Flood, there's been a trend right 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:27.880 to the top. Well, I think we will have to 0:10:28.360 --> 0:10:30.959 deepen the capital pool in Europe. We will have to 0:10:31.240 --> 0:10:33.679 encourage pension funds. Pension funds in the UK used to 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:37.040 own forty fifty percent of pension funds owned UK equities. 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.440 That's now four or five percent. So I think there 0:10:39.480 --> 0:10:43.640 will have to be government changes to the regulation and 0:10:43.800 --> 0:10:46.920 to the ability for these pension funds and local investors 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:51.280 to take risk. Right now, US investors it's a deeper 0:10:51.360 --> 0:10:54.240 capital pool. They understand growth and they're willing to pay 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.920 for it. So European companies get higher valuations and they 0:10:57.960 --> 0:11:00.559 get investors that understand growth and they are willing to 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:00.960 back them. 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:04.080 That's Atlantic Bridges, Elaine Cocklin. They're talking about the challenges 0:11:04.200 --> 0:11:07.880 Europe faces in scaling up its tech sector. Our next guest, 0:11:08.000 --> 0:11:11.040 Pam Cheng, is the executive vice president of Global Operations 0:11:11.080 --> 0:11:13.440 at AstraZeneca. As a key figure in the role out 0:11:13.480 --> 0:11:16.400 of the COVID vaccine, she sees the global supply chains 0:11:16.400 --> 0:11:19.640 in a different light after the pandemic and had some 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:24.560 interesting comments about investment prospects in the UK. Obviously, your 0:11:24.640 --> 0:11:28.360 business has had a transformative couple of years because of 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:31.240 the rollout of the COVID vaccine. How different do your 0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.199 supply chains look now compared to that they did three 0:11:34.240 --> 0:11:34.600 years ago? 0:11:34.840 --> 0:11:37.000 Great question. So, first of all, hello Stephen, thank you 0:11:37.200 --> 0:11:39.719 for having me here today. I think you know, I 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:42.520 think we can all agree coming out of COVID nineteen, 0:11:42.600 --> 0:11:45.360 the role is a different place, right and particularly as 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:48.720 we continue to whether I'm presidented, challenges like the war 0:11:48.800 --> 0:11:51.880 in Ukraine and the geopolitical tension, we are in a 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:55.319 very different place. I'm a believer that global and open 0:11:55.400 --> 0:12:00.640 supply chain is critical for our business, right. So if 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:03.679 you look at the importance of trade, innovation and technology, 0:12:03.840 --> 0:12:06.800 that's made us a more connected and more interdependent world. 0:12:07.120 --> 0:12:09.079 And I don't think that's going to go away. I 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:13.079 do think that COVID NINETEENNX, we kind of emerge in 0:12:13.160 --> 0:12:17.560 this new world moving forward sort of the term of reglobalization. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:20.280 It's going to take on some new rules by some 0:12:20.360 --> 0:12:23.960 of the countries and key players around how to maintain 0:12:24.040 --> 0:12:26.959 some sort of control, bringing back control as well as 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:29.120 making sure that we continue to open the doors for 0:12:29.200 --> 0:12:31.600 trade to make sure that we don't stifle that innovation. 0:12:32.000 --> 0:12:36.200 So today our supply chain largely hasn't changed that much. However, 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.240 we are taking steps to make sure that we are 0:12:39.360 --> 0:12:42.480 increasing supply chain resilience because in the end of the day, 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:45.560 in life science and pharmaceutical supply chains, we are talking 0:12:45.559 --> 0:12:48.360 about patients' health, right, so we want to make sure 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:50.720 that our supply chain continue to be resilient in. 0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:51.839 Terms of agility. 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.679 Obviously, you have a massive production shift to produce your 0:12:54.760 --> 0:12:55.679 COVID vaccine. 0:12:56.440 --> 0:12:59.280 Do you have now an ability to do something like that? Again? 0:12:59.400 --> 0:13:01.160 What if you learned learn from that experience? 0:13:01.400 --> 0:13:03.599 And I think the prerequisite of that is having a 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:07.199 global and open supply chain environment. That's a perfect example 0:13:07.679 --> 0:13:12.160 why we cannot localize or regionalize medicine supply chains, right, 0:13:12.400 --> 0:13:15.640 I mean, we commercialize, so we develop and supply over 0:13:15.800 --> 0:13:19.199 three billion doses of COVID nineteen vaccine. We supply over 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.640 to one hundred and eighty countries, two third of which 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.360 are low and middle income countries, and not to mention, 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:26.880 it had no profit during the pandemic. We would not 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.480 have been able to do that if we had local 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:32.160 and regional supply chain and we're unable to kind of 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:36.560 leverage that scale and capability and resources globally. We had 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:40.439 supply chain in Asia, in Latin America, North America and 0:13:40.559 --> 0:13:43.160 Europe for examble that kind of pulled together to make 0:13:43.240 --> 0:13:43.720 this happen. 0:13:44.520 --> 0:13:46.600 You announced just about eighteen months ago that you were 0:13:46.600 --> 0:13:48.760 going to locate at three hundred and sixty million dollar 0:13:49.040 --> 0:13:52.719 findhuction plant here in Ireland, something that was controversial in 0:13:52.760 --> 0:13:54.960 British political circles because they had hoped to be able 0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:56.480 to attract that investment as well. 0:13:56.720 --> 0:13:58.600 What's the latest update on that Irish side. 0:13:58.679 --> 0:14:03.120 So the final decision was to cite it in Ireland 0:14:03.360 --> 0:14:06.960 co located with our Alexion manufacturing facility in College Park. 0:14:08.040 --> 0:14:11.679 Citing of a pharmaceutical, medicine or facility is a very 0:14:11.800 --> 0:14:14.640 complicated decision, right. It's it's not just about tax, It's 0:14:14.679 --> 0:14:18.319 not just about the financial implications. It's about the resources, 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:22.400 the capability which is very very important, and the operating environment. 0:14:22.520 --> 0:14:26.640 Having that friendly operating environment and with Ireland sort of 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:31.200 operations climate around, focus on climate change, focus on green energy, 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:36.840 focusing on capabilities, and in the UK part of it, 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.320 you can, but I think we look at the total package. 0:14:39.840 --> 0:14:42.000 And if you look at the financial implications along with 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:44.000 all the things I've talked about, this is what this 0:14:44.240 --> 0:14:47.080 was the right place. What could facility the UK do? 0:14:47.360 --> 0:14:48.920 I mean you mentioned tax there as well as something 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:50.720 goes to your CEO. It highlights is the reason for 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:53.720 locating that plant in Ireland. What could the UK do 0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:56.720 to better attract businesses like yours? 0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.360 I think we've publicly said that we you know, we 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:02.280 will like the UK government to really sort of focus 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:06.960 on innovation, value innovation at faster around innovation and some 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:11.080 of the regulatory means and really give incentive to drive 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:14.720 for companies to be driving that innovation, initiating that innovation 0:15:14.880 --> 0:15:15.480 within the UK. 0:15:15.960 --> 0:15:17.600 Does that mean financial incentives? 0:15:18.240 --> 0:15:21.360 It could include that not only financial implications, but it 0:15:21.400 --> 0:15:23.600 can include that. But the more importantly is that overall 0:15:23.680 --> 0:15:24.680 operating environment. 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:30.359 Okay, on a more broad issue, where what is Astroseneka's 0:15:30.440 --> 0:15:32.760 view of COVID nineteen Now is it something that is 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:34.560 still a large portion of your business is focused on. 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:39.720 So we have a new therapeutic category that we've co 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.200 vaccines and immunology that we are looking into, as you know, 0:15:43.280 --> 0:15:46.360 above and beyond the COVID nineteen vaccine. We also have 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:51.080 an antibody for the immunal compromise population, so we continue 0:15:51.120 --> 0:15:53.240 to work on that. We continue we have a large 0:15:53.280 --> 0:15:57.440 research pipeline in looking at continue vaccine for the next 0:15:57.480 --> 0:16:01.520 pandemic or the next evolutions of of COVID nineteen or similar, 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.080 as well as antibodies for the immunocompromised patients. So we 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.320 continue to do that research such that Gappha bit if 0:16:08.560 --> 0:16:11.680 should there be a need, we are ready to support. 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:13.520 That's as senecas Pam Chang. 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.520 There now one person who is very much related to 0:16:16.640 --> 0:16:20.280 the trade aspect of that conversation is Denny Redone. He 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.680 is the Chief Trade Enforcement Officer at the European Commission, 0:16:23.880 --> 0:16:27.240 responsible for enforcing the EUSE trade deals with the rest 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.520 of the world. Are you the person the trading partners 0:16:30.600 --> 0:16:32.280 need to be scared of when it comes to doing 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:33.280 business with the EU? 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:35.240 I don't think it's a matter of being scared. I 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:39.000 don't think we want to be punative, closed, or for 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.680 that matter, protectionists in any way. That's not in the 0:16:41.840 --> 0:16:43.880 US interest. What are we trying to do. What we're 0:16:43.920 --> 0:16:47.160 trying to do is are two very basic things. One 0:16:47.520 --> 0:16:49.640 is we want to make sure where we negotiate trade 0:16:49.640 --> 0:16:54.160 agreements trade treaties, we maximize for all firms in all 0:16:54.200 --> 0:16:57.360 member states the potential benefits from those agreements, and that 0:16:57.560 --> 0:17:00.960 requires engagement with third country partner. A trade treaty is 0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:02.720 a piece of paper. You need to inject some life 0:17:02.760 --> 0:17:06.119 into it. And yes, indeed we're necessary. We have to 0:17:06.240 --> 0:17:10.760 ensure the compliance by our third country partners of their commitments, 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:13.879 and there from time to time we have to be 0:17:14.440 --> 0:17:20.560 assertive in ensuring that compliance of commitments. So you continue 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:23.320 to basically have a policy that stands on three legs. 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.159 One is openness, second one is sustainability because that is 0:17:27.320 --> 0:17:30.320 important for Europe. And the third one, yes, is a 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:35.560 form of assertiveness that enables us to navigate a world 0:17:35.600 --> 0:17:39.119 which is a bit more adverse, a bit more fragmented 0:17:39.240 --> 0:17:42.159 in some cases in certain jurisdictions, a bit more protectionist 0:17:42.200 --> 0:17:44.320 against you interests, and we need to push back. 0:17:45.480 --> 0:17:48.000 We don't hear from you very often when it comes 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.520 to your role as Chief Trade Enforcement Officer. 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:52.240 I'm wondering in this role. 0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:54.359 Which, if the EUS trade deals do you kind of 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:56.240 generates the most work for you? 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:57.960 What sort of issues are you working on? 0:17:58.840 --> 0:18:02.440 Look, we have a network of free trade agreements, probably 0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:06.200 the biggest in the world. We have some forty six 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:09.920 trade agreements with seventy eight partners, so that requires constant 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:14.200 attention to make sure that in all these jurisdictions, EU firms, 0:18:14.359 --> 0:18:18.760 EU investors are basically not being discriminated. So we're looking, 0:18:18.800 --> 0:18:22.200 of course at some of the big markets around the 0:18:22.280 --> 0:18:26.720 world where we have a relationship based on WTO terms, 0:18:27.000 --> 0:18:29.840 the US China, but we're also looking at all of 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:33.920 these preferential agreements, including in our neighborhoods close to the 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:35.879 European Union, where we make a lot of trade and 0:18:35.960 --> 0:18:38.119 we make a lot of investment, and where it is 0:18:38.240 --> 0:18:43.320 necessary to maintain our footprint on a non discriminatory basis 0:18:43.920 --> 0:18:47.600 and ensure that the rules based relations that we have 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:48.919 with these countries is upheld. 0:18:50.000 --> 0:18:51.920 Can you give us an example of some of the 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.879 enforcement actions that you have been involved with in some 0:18:54.960 --> 0:18:56.000 of those recent tradetails. 0:18:56.840 --> 0:19:00.800 Well, look, we use a continuum of tool so in 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:04.760 some cases it's about being prevented, it's about engaging with 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:10.200 third country jurisdictions even before they take measures regulatory measures 0:19:10.240 --> 0:19:12.600 that are going to create discrimination or create a market 0:19:12.640 --> 0:19:15.240 access problem for our firms to make sure that that 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:18.840 doesn't happen. And that's the kind of market access work 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:21.440 that you will not actually see that it is the 0:19:21.560 --> 0:19:24.840 most effective. We solve problems before they actually emerge. In 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:29.160 some other cases, we have recourse to the dispute settlement, 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:33.400 the enforcement mechanisms that we have under our trade agreements 0:19:33.560 --> 0:19:36.920 or under the WTGO. We keep using the wto dispute settlement. 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:40.480 We have prevailed a number of trade disputes that we have, 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:44.280 and that's the civilized way of dealing with trade problems. 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:46.000 State to state. 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:50.480 We have recourse to third party adjudication to clarify what 0:19:50.640 --> 0:19:53.080 is the nature of the commitments and therefore to solve 0:19:53.640 --> 0:19:55.879 the problems that we may have in one of the 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:59.760 other jurisdictions. We have prevailed, for example at panel stage 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:04.280 this week in a dispute with India over their tariffs 0:20:04.480 --> 0:20:06.760 in the information and technology area. 0:20:07.200 --> 0:20:08.040 That is important. 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.760 It's a basic commitment. We believe that countries should abide 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:14.399 by their bindings in terms of tariffs, and this is 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:17.480 why we have decided to adjudicate this in a wto dispute. 0:20:18.160 --> 0:20:19.840 One of the things that we talk about when we 0:20:19.920 --> 0:20:22.600 talk about regulation by the opinion is the Brussels effect 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:25.640 of how is it set standards for the world. I'm 0:20:25.680 --> 0:20:30.000 interested in how the trades aspect of relationships and forces 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:33.359 sustainability and labor standards. That that's something that's difficult to 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:35.560 enforce the new dealing with very diverse raisions in the world. 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:39.240 Well, obviously it is difficult because you dookie get issues 0:20:39.240 --> 0:20:41.720 which are deep behind the board and have to do 0:20:41.840 --> 0:20:46.240 with production methods and standards. So it is complex, but 0:20:46.640 --> 0:20:50.879 we basically unsustainability achieve sustainability in our trade relations in 0:20:51.119 --> 0:20:53.639 different ways. First through the trade agreement. You're right. We 0:20:53.840 --> 0:20:58.879 have trade agreements that have ambitious binding provisions in the 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:01.560 area of labor, in the area environment, and we're putting 0:21:01.560 --> 0:21:04.040 a lot of focus on the actual concrete implementation of 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:08.440 that through primarily cooperation. We also have autonomous instruments in 0:21:08.560 --> 0:21:14.680 the EU carbon border adjustment, deforestation legislation. This complements what 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:18.280 we can do in trade agreements. And finally, I think 0:21:18.600 --> 0:21:22.000 we must continue to engage in international regulatory cooperation. Yes, 0:21:22.080 --> 0:21:25.920 the Brussels effects place it is important, but we cannot 0:21:26.040 --> 0:21:31.120