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Speaker 1: Coming up on you need therapy. The process of therapy

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Speaker 1: is kind of like looking in a mirror somebody sitting

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Speaker 1: across from you and helping you see what you can't

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Speaker 1: see about yourself. I started to realize that not being

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Speaker 1: an expert isn't a liability, it's a real gift. If

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Speaker 1: we don't know something about ourselves at this point in

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Speaker 1: our life, it's probably because it's uncomfortable to know. If

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Speaker 1: you can die before you die, then you can really live.

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Speaker 1: There's a wisdom at death's door. I thought I was insane. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know what to do because there was

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Speaker 1: no internet. I don't know, man, I'm like, I feel

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Speaker 1: like everything is hard. Hey, y'all, my name is Kat.

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Speaker 1: I'm a human first and a licensed therapist second. And

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Speaker 1: right now I'm inviting you into conversations that I hope

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Speaker 1: encourage you to become more curious and less judgmental about yourself, others,

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Speaker 1: and the world around you. Welcome to you need therapy. Okay,

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Speaker 1: So I'm here today with our returning returning, returning permanent guest.

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Speaker 1: You're a permanent guest. Welcome. How are you doing? I'm

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Speaker 1: doing well. So we have a couple of things we're

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Speaker 1: going to chat with you guys about, and two of

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Speaker 1: them have nothing to do with each other, so we'll

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Speaker 1: just get to that later. But we want to start

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Speaker 1: talking about you know, Tara and I started this recurring series, Yes,

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Speaker 1: the series called The Difference Between where we will talk

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Speaker 1: about something that is related to mental health or therapy

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Speaker 1: and then look at how it has kind of been

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Speaker 1: misshapen through is that a word, say, misshapen through pop

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Speaker 1: culture in the world, and then talk about the difference

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Speaker 1: between how people are seeing it and how it's talked

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Speaker 1: about now versus what the true inherent meaning is. And

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Speaker 1: you know, something that we haven't talked about, which seems

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Speaker 1: a little like we're backtracking, is we haven't actually talked

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Speaker 1: about what is therapy versus what we are saying it

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Speaker 1: is on the TikTok and the Instagram and all of that. So, yeah, movies,

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Speaker 1: TV shows, which I'm not going to give a spoiler.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna try not to, but just in case I do,

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Speaker 1: this is my warning that I have no idea what's

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Speaker 1: about to come out of my mouth. But there's a

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Speaker 1: new show called Shrinking, and I have watched all the

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Speaker 1: update episodes. I think there's four. I think the Apple

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Speaker 1: Apple TV. You've watched three, yes, And I've got to

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Speaker 1: say it's a good show, right, It's a great show.

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Speaker 1: It's great TV, star cast, it's great TV. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: ask you what your initial response was it when you

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Speaker 1: were watching it. But when I was watching it, you know, shrinking.

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Speaker 1: It's about therapists. And I was sitting there watching the

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Speaker 1: show about this therapist who lacks many important boundaries between

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Speaker 1: him and his client clients, and I had some moments

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Speaker 1: where I was like, dang, that was smart, and then

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Speaker 1: I like a couple of seconds that I'm like, stop it, No,

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Speaker 1: that's not smart. We can't do that. And I kept

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Speaker 1: having this experience of like almost a longing to be

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Speaker 1: able to do some of these things, because in the

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Speaker 1: moment they seem pretty cool and like, oh, that's that

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Speaker 1: was actually really creative idea to get that client out

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Speaker 1: of their comfort zone or out of their box and

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Speaker 1: kind of whatever. But then as you keep watching the show,

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Speaker 1: you're reminded why we do have certain boundaries, and this

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Speaker 1: is a TV show, so they can curate how they

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Speaker 1: want things to go, so they might be doing something

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Speaker 1: that's really kind of dangerous, but they can make it

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Speaker 1: work just right. So when you were watching it, what

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Speaker 1: did you think? I mean, I had a lot of

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Speaker 1: those same reactions where I was like, Okay, yeah, be

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Speaker 1: a real person as a therapist. Just sit in front

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Speaker 1: of this person, like you're a real person, and you're

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Speaker 1: like I can't take this, Like this is so bad.

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Speaker 1: What's going like? You keep doing the same thing. You've

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Speaker 1: got to stop doing the same thing or whatever. And

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Speaker 1: then also just this awareness of like absolutely not that,

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Speaker 1: like I know why, I know why immediately we don't

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Speaker 1: do those things. This is where there might be a spoiler,

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Speaker 1: So if you haven't watched the show yet, I don't

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Speaker 1: think it's really give anything away. But there's this there's

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Speaker 1: a couple of clients that it follows, and we've all,

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Speaker 1: well most therapists I think I have, and I'm pretty

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Speaker 1: sure you have had clients where we just want to

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Speaker 1: be like, oh my gosh, just do this and everything

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Speaker 1: will be better. Yeah. I don't think I've ever actually

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Speaker 1: done that. And in this show, he has the therapist

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Speaker 1: as a breaking point where he's just and it has

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Speaker 1: to do with his own stuff and his own stressors

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Speaker 1: in life. What's funny is you see him the immediate

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Speaker 1: responses that it made everything better. And then as the

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Speaker 1: show goes on, more information is revealed and you'll see

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Speaker 1: why we don't tell people what to do. You've had

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Speaker 1: clients where you've wanted to do that, and so what

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Speaker 1: keeps you from just being like, oh, my gosh, have

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Speaker 1: you seen because I said so, it's a movie with Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was like years ago. It was very old, not

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Speaker 1: very old. But it's Diane Keaton, yes, yes, and Loria Gilmore.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what her name is her real name.

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Speaker 1: So she's a therapist and she has a client that

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Speaker 1: is like talking about I think it must be suicide.

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Speaker 1: And she has a breaking point. I think she needed

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Speaker 1: to like get somewhere or something. I don't know, but

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Speaker 1: she looks at the clients she said, you've been talking

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Speaker 1: about this. I've been talking about killing yourself for years

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Speaker 1: in my office. So either do it or don't something

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Speaker 1: like that. It was something along the lines of that,

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Speaker 1: And in the moment, if you're watching that, you're like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you know, she's telling him like it is and he's

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Speaker 1: getting some some tough love and hopefully that will make

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Speaker 1: him better. And in the show. I think it does

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Speaker 1: like make him better, but you can't say that. I

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Speaker 1: would never say that to somebody. But it's interesting because

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Speaker 1: in the movie, again, it works out because they can

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Speaker 1: create it to work out, and those aren't real people

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Speaker 1: with real life circumstances and real stressors, and there's not

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Speaker 1: a real story behind why he might be feeling that

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Speaker 1: that you're connected to. So I just wanted to start

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Speaker 1: before we get into like what we think therapy is

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Speaker 1: versus what it is, we can start with what it's not.

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Speaker 1: According to TV shows, are there any shows that you

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Speaker 1: think portray it? Well, there's maybe a couple of things

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Speaker 1: I've seen, like in the middle midst of a show,

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Speaker 1: you know, not where it was about therapy, but where

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Speaker 1: someone went and there were a couple of obscure party

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Speaker 1: where it wasn't the whole part of the movie or

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Speaker 1: the show, but it happened in the midst of it,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, oh, they did a pretty decent job

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Speaker 1: maybe with this particular moment. I mean, actually, there's that

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Speaker 1: show Jenny and George John Netflix. I've oh, it's just

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Speaker 1: a silly, little dramay teen family situation. But the girl,

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Speaker 1: she's like fifteen or something she's self harming, and she

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Speaker 1: goes to therapy, and I actually think her therapist is

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Speaker 1: a pretty good accurate representation. And there's even a moment

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Speaker 1: where her mom like shows up the therapist no her

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Speaker 1: mom was coming, and she says in front of the

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Speaker 1: mom to her, that's not how this works. This is

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Speaker 1: her time to the client who's an adolescent, you know.

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Speaker 1: And I just think she does a great job. She's

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Speaker 1: pretty accurate. It's like basic kind of talk therapy stuff.

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Speaker 1: But that's like one scene and I was like, oh, Okay,

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Speaker 1: this is a good way of handling this moment, you know.

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Speaker 1: But there's a lot that are weird and yeah, or

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Speaker 1: it's like oversimplified and in shrinking what is interesting. And

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Speaker 1: I would love to hear people's interpretation that are watching this,

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Speaker 1: whether you guys are are just normal folk not therapist

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Speaker 1: professionally or where whether a therapist and what comes up.

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Speaker 1: But it's interesting because they have three therapists in this show,

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Speaker 1: and one of them is like very like by the book,

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Speaker 1: very boundaried, very like regulated, no emotion, like the blank slate,

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Speaker 1: and then there's the one that has no regulation, and

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Speaker 1: then I don't really know much about the other one.

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Speaker 1: We haven't seen her as a therapist. We've only seen

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Speaker 1: her as like my human, which she seems cool. But

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Speaker 1: I think that's really interesting because it's like there are

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Speaker 1: these two ways to be like over the top, like

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Speaker 1: no boundaries, like you don't have a lot of thought

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Speaker 1: about what your behaviors are and how they're going to

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Speaker 1: impact your clients, versus I have every single wallop that

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Speaker 1: I could put up as a therapist, and I'm using

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Speaker 1: them all at once. One of the things I think

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Speaker 1: that comes up in TV and also just maybe in

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Speaker 1: people's sort of stereotypical view of what happens in therapy

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Speaker 1: is that they're besit across from me, nods, says mmm,

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Speaker 1: makes little noises, and then ask me what I feel

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Speaker 1: about everything. I say, how did that make you feel? Exactly?

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Speaker 1: And that's it. They don't ever tell me anything. They

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Speaker 1: don't ever you know, no information, right, They just that's

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Speaker 1: all that's happening the whole time. And I think that

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Speaker 1: that's what I would say, that's not what therapy is. Also,

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Speaker 1: maybe a good caveat or disclaimer would be this, maybe

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Speaker 1: what some some of the things we say that is

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Speaker 1: not what therapy is. Supposed to be might be what

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Speaker 1: some therapists are doing and wait, that's what my therapist does. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it might be what is happening. Hopefully that's not

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Speaker 1: the only thing that's happening. I mean, maybe that's what

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Speaker 1: we're saying right now. And if it is, then I

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Speaker 1: think there's some skills lacking have you had, because I've

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Speaker 1: had clients that have come to me and I'm like,

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Speaker 1: I always asked about their previous therapy and what they liked,

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Speaker 1: what they didn't like, and a lot of what I

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Speaker 1: hear what people don't like is I just felt like

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Speaker 1: my therapist just sat there and she didn't really or

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Speaker 1: he didn't really say anything, and I'm looking for a

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Speaker 1: little bit more information, like I just want some help,

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Speaker 1: I want some guidance sometimes and it was just like

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Speaker 1: if I wasn't talking, they would just like stare at me.

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Speaker 1: And I wonder if that is a product of how

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Speaker 1: therapy just is. It's always evolving. And when I was

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Speaker 1: in school, we were taught very basic skills, and I

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Speaker 1: went into into being a therapist with those very basic skills.

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Speaker 1: And if you don't know anything different, how are you

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Speaker 1: going to do anything different? But what was helpful for

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Speaker 1: me as a therapist and training is I got to

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Speaker 1: see other therapists not be that way. So I got

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Speaker 1: to see therapists you self disclosure. I got to see

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Speaker 1: therapists ask questions, which is something that some people are like,

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Speaker 1: don't you shouldn't be asking questions, And it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: sometimes that's helpful, and so I got to see that

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Speaker 1: and so that then I got to weave things together.

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Speaker 1: But I think some people don't. It's like that's what

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Speaker 1: they're taught. Paraphrase, repeat back. Yeah. I mean there's probably

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Speaker 1: a million reasons like why people have you know, a

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Speaker 1: very specific or a more monolithic set of skills, And

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Speaker 1: that's again that's not wrong. Actually, I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people would go into a therapy experience and and

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Speaker 1: just have them you know, being attentive, reflecting back and

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Speaker 1: saying how do you feel, and would get a lot

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Speaker 1: out of that because you feel very seen and someone

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Speaker 1: is just with you without needing anything from you. Like

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Speaker 1: those two things are very powerful for human beings to experience.

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Speaker 1: And so I think again like it worked because it

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Speaker 1: was giving people that thing that that you need. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I think there's always been people who um,

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Speaker 1: we're probably pushing the envelope on development and trying to

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Speaker 1: do in different things. And you know, just like everything,

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Speaker 1: just like all sciences and medicine and everything, it's grown

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Speaker 1: and it's evolved, and we see that there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of different ways to do it, and so I do

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Speaker 1: think it is growing with the times sort of thing

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Speaker 1: where that is different than what it was. What I

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Speaker 1: want to do is I want to read some of

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Speaker 1: these responses that I got, because I think what you

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Speaker 1: just said was there's more more than one way to

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Speaker 1: be a therapist, and there's more than one way to

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Speaker 1: experience therapy. People go to therapy for more than one thing,

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Speaker 1: and so that's going to then have impact on how

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Speaker 1: a therapists might show up. And it doesn't have to

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Speaker 1: be just this one extreme or the other. It's allowed

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Speaker 1: to be a lot of combinations of both of those

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Speaker 1: things interwoven plus other things I'll just say off top,

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Speaker 1: like some of the what I when I think about

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Speaker 1: what is what I would like for therapy to not be,

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Speaker 1: or what I don't think therapy is and my experiences,

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Speaker 1: it's not someone just asking you how you feel all

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Speaker 1: the time. It's not someone giving you the answers giving

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Speaker 1: you advice or telling you what to do with your problems.

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Speaker 1: And it's also not just someone to talk to. Can

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Speaker 1: I add one? Yeah, it's not just somebody to make

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Speaker 1: you feel better, because I think that's a part that like,

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Speaker 1: my therapist is such a blah blah blah. I went

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Speaker 1: to go feel better about this thing, and they if

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Speaker 1: you don't get the feedback that it's like not what

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Speaker 1: is it that? Uh? Was that movie called the documentary

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Speaker 1: that Jonah Hill did stud Okay, so I didn't watch

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Speaker 1: the whole thing, which I will. I do, need to

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Speaker 1: finish it. I got a little bored, you know sometimes

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Speaker 1: when see that's why shrinking such a good show, because

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Speaker 1: real therapy is not that interesting all the time. It

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Speaker 1: was not your therapy session. But I sometimes I get

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Speaker 1: over stimulated with that. I like to like, actually not

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Speaker 1: be watching a documentary on something that I do all day.

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Speaker 1: It's like I want to watch a documentary on like

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Speaker 1: dinosaurs or something. Well not really, but you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean. So so anyway, he said in there, I

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Speaker 1: got to make sure I say this right. He said,

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Speaker 1: it's very interesting because therapists aren't going to just tell

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Speaker 1: you what to do. They don't give you advice. But

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Speaker 1: it's weird because we go to our friends and we

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Speaker 1: get advice, and we go to therapist and they, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, help us figure it out. And you wanted

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Speaker 1: to be the opposite, like you want to like go

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Speaker 1: to your friends and should just be able to like

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Speaker 1: speak really, But I think that's important to note that,

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Speaker 1: like a therapist isn't there to tell you what to do,

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Speaker 1: but they're also not there just to make you feel better.

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Speaker 1: And that's good to have that understanding all those things

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Speaker 1: that you said before you go into an experience of therapy.

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Speaker 1: So I'm going to read these things that you guys said.

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Speaker 1: I asked on Instagram, like how what do you think

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Speaker 1: therapy is? How would you define it? If you were

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Speaker 1: like telling a friend that had never been before and

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Speaker 1: never heard of it before, what would you say? And

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Speaker 1: I got some interesting, some funny responses, So I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: read some. Some of them are kind of similar, so

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Speaker 1: I won't read them all. One of my favorite ones

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Speaker 1: was a response, I didn't know you could do this,

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Speaker 1: but um, this person just sent me a song and

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Speaker 1: they sent me Man in the mirror Michael Jackson which

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Speaker 1: I was like, that's pretty creative, and that same person

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Speaker 1: also said it's your safe space, which I like. One

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Speaker 1: person said, talking to someone about all the weird stuff

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Speaker 1: going on in your head and why it's going on

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Speaker 1: a safe, caring, non judgmental space where all feelings are

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Speaker 1: welcomed to be explored. And then that same person was like,

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Speaker 1: there's actually not enough space in here to tell you

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Speaker 1: what I really want to say. So I'm sure that

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Speaker 1: person had to condense that a place to help and

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Speaker 1: give you tools to make sense of chaos and confusion

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Speaker 1: that can give you hope where you can share emotions

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Speaker 1: with a neutral, insightful human to help process plus heal.

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Speaker 1: I really like when people say, like to help process,

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Speaker 1: I'm not processing for you, I'm helping kind of guide

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Speaker 1: that two people said. One person gave more detail on this,

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Speaker 1: but I don't watch Desperate Housewives. Desperate Housewives, that's the

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Speaker 1: that's effer than Real Housewives. Okay, Desert Houses that show

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Speaker 1: that was on a long time ago. Did you watch that? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Apparently one of the characters said therapy is like a

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Speaker 1: talk show where I'm the guest and the only topic

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Speaker 1: is me, which is like kind of it's hilarious, a

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Speaker 1: safe space to get all your stuff out. This person

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Speaker 1: said validation and a little and little tidbits of feedback

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Speaker 1: that make you say, wow, what do you think about that?

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Speaker 1: Like therapy being a place to be validated? Is that

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Speaker 1: fit well? I think validation might be understood and in

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Speaker 1: some different ways, or it can mean different things. Like

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Speaker 1: your experience of something is always valid because it is

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Speaker 1: your experience. What you do with it is a different story,

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Speaker 1: I think, right, Like your behavior isn't always valid. My

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Speaker 1: behavior isn't always valid. What's happening internally in my experience

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Speaker 1: of something? Sure, it's valid, it's my experience. It's valid

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Speaker 1: enough for me to be with it, to dig into it.

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Speaker 1: Can't like you're not having that experience. That's what I

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Speaker 1: literally am. That's right, that's right. So I think about

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Speaker 1: it just as valid, not necessarily right. The way we

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Speaker 1: think about things being right or wrong. I say a

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Speaker 1: lot of times like, yeah, that is totally valid, but

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Speaker 1: that doesn't lead to justification. Those things can be a

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Speaker 1: little different. They can both be true, but also it

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Speaker 1: can be different. Somebody else said, a place to sort,

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Speaker 1: de escalate and find clarity, a place where you can

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Speaker 1: learn coping strategies for the struggles in your life, a

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Speaker 1: space to hold a space to hold space for whatever

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Speaker 1: you were feeling and need in that moment, an unbiased

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Speaker 1: opinion about how to best process life and experiences. You

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Speaker 1: got some good answers. You guys are so smart. I

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Speaker 1: really want to find one that I'm like, that's not right.

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Speaker 1: I was thinking, Okay, So I've recently had a little

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Speaker 1: debate with a friend of mine because he said, everbout

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Speaker 1: what pole I had put up? Oh, I put up

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Speaker 1: a poll on Instagram that was like, I was watching

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Speaker 1: Parks and rec and I have never watched it before.

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Speaker 1: It's I'm new to it, and I love New Girls.

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Speaker 1: I put a pole and I was like, you can

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Speaker 1: only save one, and you had to pick one, and

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Speaker 1: it was way skewed towards New Girl. And my friend

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Speaker 1: was like, well, that's because your followers are biased, because

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Speaker 1: the people that follow you are people that are going

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Speaker 1: to be more like you. And I was like, that's

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Speaker 1: not true, which, like, is the algorithm? Is that what

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Speaker 1: she's saying? Well, well maybe, but really they I think

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Speaker 1: they were saying, like, if people follow you, they're more

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Speaker 1: likely to have your opinion because they're following you because

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Speaker 1: they like something about you, or you were like them,

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Speaker 1: like I don't have a lot of I don't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of men follow me, or my following isn't

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Speaker 1: highly into sports, like they might be into sports, but

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Speaker 1: I'm not a sports person, so people aren't following me

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Speaker 1: for that. So I put all these other pulls up

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Speaker 1: and you guys might have noticed this if you follow me.

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Speaker 1: But I had some random poles one night and it

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Speaker 1: was just to test that out. It was like, would

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Speaker 1: you rather go to the mountains or an all inclusive

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Speaker 1: resort or something like that, or a beer, wine or

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Speaker 1: there's another one, and all of them were like highly

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Speaker 1: favored one way or the other. And I was just

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Speaker 1: thinking in my head, this doesn't mean anything, This doesn't

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Speaker 1: confirm your opinion. But it does, And so that why

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Speaker 1: I think maybe a lot of the people that are

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Speaker 1: following me have real experiences with therapists. You guys might

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Speaker 1: listen to the podcast, so you have more understanding than that.

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Speaker 1: So maybe I should wind in my search. I need

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Speaker 1: to go stay on the street and ask people what

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Speaker 1: they think it is, because don't you think a lot

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Speaker 1: of people really would be like it's a place to

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Speaker 1: get advice, tell you what to do. I know a

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Speaker 1: lot of people who have never been to therapy, and

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Speaker 1: that is I'm pretty sure what they think. It is

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Speaker 1: advice or just someone to talk to you, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: I already talked to people. What am I going to

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Speaker 1: get out of styrapy that I can't get from a

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Speaker 1: friends right or the whole I don't really need therapy.

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Speaker 1: I'm not having an extreme mental health crisis. Yes, I'm

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Speaker 1: mostly okay. It's like I need to be having a

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Speaker 1: heart attack before I get the doctor's sort of mentality.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting. So we're going to play you two clips

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Speaker 1: of therapists that are not Terra or I explaining their idea,

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Speaker 1: an interpretation of what therapy is and what the process

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Speaker 1: of therapy is. One is much more detailed than the other,

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Speaker 1: which I really like because they can be detailed and

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Speaker 1: it can be really simple depending on how you really

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Speaker 1: want to cut it up. So let's start the longer one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is Hannah Owens who has been on the podcast before.

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Speaker 1: She's a therapist in Nashville. Therapy is the brave step

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Speaker 1: of saying I need help, and then the process of

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Speaker 1: therapy is kind of like looking in a mirror somebody

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Speaker 1: sitting across from you and helping you see what you

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Speaker 1: can't see about yourself, or helping clean the mirror so

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Speaker 1: that you can see yourself more clearly, whether that's understanding

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Speaker 1: and processing emotions or negative thoughts or relationships. And therapy

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Speaker 1: can include healing things from the past, adjusting or changing

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Speaker 1: things in the present, giving you skills to manage the

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Speaker 1: stress or the symptoms that you have, and you can

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Speaker 1: work on all sorts of things from how do I

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Speaker 1: deal with my anxiety when it comes up to how

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Speaker 1: do I have healthy relationships? To what are my values?

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Speaker 1: How do I connect spiritually? Who am I? All of

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Speaker 1: those things can be addressed in therapy in the process

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Speaker 1: of having someone come alongside you and getting to know

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Speaker 1: yourself and identifying what steps you need to take to

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Speaker 1: become more of who you are. I really liked when

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Speaker 1: she said clean the mirror. It's like a mirror and

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Speaker 1: then sometimes we help you clean the mirror. That's good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we have used that in our group before. Hannah and

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Speaker 1: I thought and in an experiential to where you know,

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Speaker 1: life is happening to all of us, and life the

400
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Speaker 1: thing that's reflecting us back to our else through relationships,

401
00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:05,920
Speaker 1: through experiences, we start to make interpretations about ourselves based

402
00:22:05,960 --> 00:22:08,840
Speaker 1: on what's happening out there. Right, So like you know,

403
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,880
Speaker 1: my parents never come to my game. That's a thing

404
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,800
Speaker 1: out there, a mirror. I see myself through that. What

405
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 1: do I see about myself in that action? I see

406
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Speaker 1: that I'm not very important, or I'm not supported or

407
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Speaker 1: so on my mirror, I start to see that kind

408
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Speaker 1: of stuff about myself. I'm not important. And so when

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00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,520
Speaker 1: you come to therapy you try to find where did

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Speaker 1: that actually come from? What is the truth about that experience,

411
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,639
Speaker 1: and how can we start to write a more clear

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Speaker 1: truth that isn't necessarily something that is negative meaning about you?

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Speaker 1: So yeah, I love that one too. It's a great image.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to a newer client recently and I

415
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Speaker 1: talk about stories like or metaphors a lot, and it

416
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Speaker 1: is so like that metaphor of what therapy is is

417
00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:05,960
Speaker 1: so powerful that just giving a definition of the actual thing,

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00:23:06,280 --> 00:23:09,120
Speaker 1: it doesn't get as deep, you know for sure, Well,

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00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 1: essentially that's attachment theory, right, But if we want to

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00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 1: read the definition attachment, but what and that? I like

421
00:23:17,160 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 1: that because yeah, those the words that are in a

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00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:22,359
Speaker 1: definition don't have as much of a landing a soft

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Speaker 1: landing as Oh, I know what that means in the

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Speaker 1: experience of looking in the mirror and I know the

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Speaker 1: different mirror is going to do this and that. Yeah, yeah, interesting, Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's listen to the other one. So this is Amandamorrow,

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00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,320
Speaker 1: who's also a therapist. That we know. Therapy is a

428
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:44,439
Speaker 1: process of using a single person or a group to

429
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 1: work through events, feelings, beliefs, values in a person's life

430
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,520
Speaker 1: that is either holding them back or helping to move

431
00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:59,879
Speaker 1: them forward. Much more simple. Yeah, so yeah, I like

432
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 1: both of those. They essentially are saying very similar things,

433
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:07,600
Speaker 1: one with different just different language. I've wrote one. Okay,

434
00:24:07,680 --> 00:24:09,280
Speaker 1: let's hear it's also I tried to. I was like,

435
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:11,240
Speaker 1: if I were to make this really succinct, if I

436
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:13,239
Speaker 1: were to have to like not ramble on about it

437
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,120
Speaker 1: for five sentences, what would I say? And it's interesting

438
00:24:16,160 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 1: because I think was that hard? I mean, yeah, it

439
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:27,160
Speaker 1: was hard, if you know, yes, But I think part

440
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 1: of where I went with it was also some of

441
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 1: what brought this up for me, which was what do

442
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,440
Speaker 1: people actually think I'm doing? You know, I wasn't also

443
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:39,280
Speaker 1: thinking like what am I experiencing as the client? But

444
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,720
Speaker 1: like what do people think I'm doing in the room,

445
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 1: Because if people just think I'm sitting there asking people

446
00:24:44,080 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 1: how they feel, like I'm insulted, people just think like

447
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:52,200
Speaker 1: only like random people in the world with a therapist,

448
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:54,919
Speaker 1: what do people think you? Yeah, well what okay? Before

449
00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:58,120
Speaker 1: you say that, let's talk about this. When you tell

450
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: somebody your therapist, what's the response you get? Usually oh, wow,

451
00:25:03,520 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: isn't that hard? Yep, that's a big one. There's how

452
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 1: do you leave it? Like don't you think about people

453
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:14,800
Speaker 1: and worry about people all the time? Those are two

454
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 1: big ones. One that bothers me is oh, I bet

455
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,680
Speaker 1: you're just psycho analyzing everything that work. Yes, that's the third,

456
00:25:22,480 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 1: like psychoanalyzing me right now? You're right, I'm just all

457
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,320
Speaker 1: over the place of judging you and trying to figure

458
00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 1: out how I can, like, you know, get in there

459
00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,760
Speaker 1: and tell you that everything you're doing wrong, when really

460
00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: it's I'm just being a person. Yes, that's right. But

461
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 1: I think a lot of times when I think about

462
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:39,760
Speaker 1: what do people think I'm doing, it is like, oh,

463
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:41,880
Speaker 1: you must just sit there and listen to people talk

464
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: about hard stuff all day and you just like rub

465
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: them on the back and pat them on the leg.

466
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: And I'm like, little do you know, we really aren't

467
00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: about to touch our clients, right, But yeah, so what

468
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:55,840
Speaker 1: did you end up writing? I wrote it kind of

469
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: in the perspective of what is the therapist rather than

470
00:25:59,080 --> 00:26:01,760
Speaker 1: like what is therapy? Which I think speaks to both.

471
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:06,639
Speaker 1: So the therapist is a person with specific skills help

472
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,040
Speaker 1: a person think and feel and find their way through

473
00:26:10,080 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: experiences in life that a person can't seem to find

474
00:26:13,680 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 1: their way through on their own with their own best efforts. Okay,

475
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 1: I'm going to start with the first sentence was that

476
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 1: one sentence? Okay, so to start for a long one

477
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,760
Speaker 1: to start the first part the sense a therapist person

478
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:32,520
Speaker 1: with specific skills. I like that. I felt like because

479
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: in therapist is not just somebody who, like you know,

480
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: likes to listen. And I had to learn how to

481
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,200
Speaker 1: be a therapist. It wasn't like I want to be one,

482
00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,640
Speaker 1: so I'm going to just go to the school, get

483
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: the certificate and then be It's like, now you learn

484
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,720
Speaker 1: skills that are specific to then do what a therapist does.

485
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 1: That's why a therapist, and a culture also different, and

486
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 1: your friends are different, anybody, everybody is different. And then

487
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,600
Speaker 1: read the second half of that helps a person think, feel,

488
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 1: and find their way through experiences that they haven't been

489
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: able to find their way through with their own best efforts. Okay,

490
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 1: that's I love that we're helping somebody do all these things.

491
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:17,360
Speaker 1: So we're not doing it for them. We're not telling

492
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: them exactly what to do. We're helping them do these

493
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 1: things that they might have tried to do on their own,

494
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: but some of the things that nobody can do completely

495
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: on their own. That word, um, so it's not even

496
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,239
Speaker 1: about the lack of ability per person. I like that,

497
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: you know you when you said I was I wrote

498
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:46,480
Speaker 1: it from the perspective of what somebody thinks I'm doing

499
00:27:46,560 --> 00:27:49,439
Speaker 1: versus what a client thinks I'm doing. I think I

500
00:27:50,320 --> 00:27:53,520
Speaker 1: get more I don't know concerned that is the right word,

501
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:57,040
Speaker 1: but I think more about what a client thinks I'm

502
00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:01,439
Speaker 1: supposed to do then what a random person thinks I'm doing,

503
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: because I'm like, I don't really know what you do

504
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:06,600
Speaker 1: at work either, and I have respect for that. They're

505
00:28:06,840 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: probably some skill involved. Like my boyfriend Patrick, who's an accountant.

506
00:28:10,680 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: I don't understand anything he talks about, and maybe I

507
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,960
Speaker 1: could understand it better. I probably should listen to him

508
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 1: with a more open ear. So I'm less concerned about

509
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:24,800
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff, just because I don't find myself

510
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 1: as concerned with that stuff. But I am more concerned

511
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,399
Speaker 1: with when somebody walks into my office, what are they

512
00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,239
Speaker 1: expecting of me? Versus like, what am I actually here

513
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:36,879
Speaker 1: to give them? And I think that it is worth

514
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,080
Speaker 1: having this conversation just so people who go to therapy. No,

515
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 1: like when I go into therapy, if I am getting

516
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,719
Speaker 1: somebody who's just like, here are one, two or three steps,

517
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: go do them and come back, you might not be

518
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 1: getting therapy, might just be getting like some I don't know,

519
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:54,640
Speaker 1: I would call that advice. It's just like some coaching.

520
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: I think coaching is very different than therapy. Yeah, yeah,

521
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:02,040
Speaker 1: I is thinking about this as we were talking, and

522
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:04,440
Speaker 1: you were you were saying about the shrinking thing. To

523
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 1: come back to that, why wouldn't I, you know, as

524
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,360
Speaker 1: a therapist engage in some of those like lack of

525
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: boundary things, like you know, just telling a person, look,

526
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: you just need to break up with that person. They're

527
00:29:16,480 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 1: an asshole, or let me go help you with this

528
00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: X situation that you're really scared about. Let me go

529
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:25,440
Speaker 1: go with you, and I'm going to help you, and

530
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 1: then we're gonna debrief. And one of the biggest reasons

531
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 1: that I'm thinking of right now that I wouldn't do

532
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 1: that is because the reason therapy is so effective for

533
00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:41,080
Speaker 1: people to really be able to drop into themselves is

534
00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: because they are not it's not a mutual relationship, whereas

535
00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,400
Speaker 1: I don't bring any of me into the room that

536
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 1: isn't my professional self, Like I'm a person that all

537
00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:52,520
Speaker 1: the rest of the people in my life that I'm

538
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:55,640
Speaker 1: in personal relationships with know a whole bunch of what's

539
00:29:55,680 --> 00:29:58,959
Speaker 1: going on inside about my my life and my feelings

540
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: about my things. And what makes therapy such a fulfilling

541
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 1: and like life giving and energy filling experience for clients

542
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,320
Speaker 1: is they don't have to hold that for me at all.

543
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 1: And if I start to do some of those things,

544
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:20,280
Speaker 1: I've tipped those scales into varying degrees. If I start

545
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: to move myself as a person not a professional, because

546
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:28,200
Speaker 1: my personal self might say to someone that guy is

547
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 1: an asshole, I wish you would leave him as a person,

548
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: I would feel that way, and I might say that

549
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: to a friend, But that's my ship really, really, that's mine,

550
00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: and until you get there in yourself. I can invite

551
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 1: that for you. I can give permission for you to

552
00:30:43,280 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: do that. I can try to move blocks out of

553
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 1: the way that we might find. But that's mine and

554
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: I can't just hand it to you. And that's you

555
00:30:50,840 --> 00:30:55,320
Speaker 1: getting the client to a place that you think they

556
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 1: would want to be, which is we can't. I don't

557
00:30:58,640 --> 00:31:03,200
Speaker 1: know that. I was talking recently to somebody about a relationship,

558
00:31:03,320 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: and and you know so many so often people are like,

559
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: should I break up with him? Should I not? Should

560
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: I do this? And it's okay, well let's talk about

561
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 1: me telling you yes or no would be my again

562
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:19,360
Speaker 1: personal idea of what would bring you the most happiness.

563
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: But that is that I'm seeing that through my lens

564
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 1: of what would bring me the most happiness. And so

565
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 1: if I said, yeah, you should, I don't know if

566
00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 1: that's actually what you're being and your body and you

567
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,440
Speaker 1: as a person who you are and the things that

568
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 1: come with you, if that actually would bring you that happiness,

569
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: it would it would make me happier. But we're not

570
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 1: talking about my relationships and so it's a very interesting

571
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: and like I'm not always the best at it. Sometimes

572
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: I have to be like WHOA, maybe you shouldn't have

573
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,160
Speaker 1: said that, or maybe like, m, you gave too much,

574
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:53,400
Speaker 1: or I mean, I'm constantly making sure that I I

575
00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:55,120
Speaker 1: am staying in the lines that I want to stay

576
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:57,240
Speaker 1: in and when I don't. What's really nice is we

577
00:31:57,280 --> 00:31:59,800
Speaker 1: have this thing called repair, but we can apologize to

578
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: our clients and say like, hey, I messed up. I

579
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,760
Speaker 1: realized that this was not about whatever, but with like

580
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:10,080
Speaker 1: stuff like self disclosure and sharing something. I find myself

581
00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:14,720
Speaker 1: as a very relational therapist. But I'm not telling you

582
00:32:15,120 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: so much about, you know, the conversation my boyfriend and

583
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 1: I had the night before about our future plans, because

584
00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:26,080
Speaker 1: like that's weighing on me. I'm probably not going to

585
00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:28,440
Speaker 1: tell you the conversation I had about future wins with

586
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,000
Speaker 1: my boyfriend at all. But I think sometimes that can

587
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:36,160
Speaker 1: get confusing where we want to relate, and that's why

588
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 1: a lot of times clients they want to be like,

589
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,400
Speaker 1: how are you, like, what's going on like, and I'll

590
00:32:41,440 --> 00:32:44,240
Speaker 1: just be like, I'm good, let's get into it. Because

591
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: I feel like we only talk about me. It's like, well,

592
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,480
Speaker 1: because if I told you what's going on in my life,

593
00:32:50,160 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: you probably would be sitting here thinking about I'm thinking

594
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,480
Speaker 1: about you versus which they're already doing that anyway, or

595
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: my life instead of your be worried about me and

596
00:33:02,320 --> 00:33:04,320
Speaker 1: how I'm feeling. And if I told you, like let's

597
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: say I had a fight with my boyfriend, I moved

598
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 1: out and all this stuff, which she would be moving

599
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,160
Speaker 1: out because I own this house. But still then they

600
00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: would be like, oh my gosh, do you need to

601
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:19,360
Speaker 1: take the day off. I do not want my clients

602
00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 1: worrying about how I'm doing. I'm good and I will

603
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 1: go take care of myself. Yeah, I mean self disclosure

604
00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 1: and transparency stuff is where it gets really. That's where

605
00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:34,959
Speaker 1: the Harrison forward versus yes, Jason, what's this gets blurred?

606
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,160
Speaker 1: Like there that's the in between, you know. And I

607
00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: am definitely not a therapist who doesn't ever self disclosed,

608
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,240
Speaker 1: and I am one who does that with a lot

609
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,720
Speaker 1: of thought and intention and so and every client is

610
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:50,160
Speaker 1: getting something different based on that client. That's right that

611
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: I think what is what's really important is that I

612
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:55,200
Speaker 1: might look really rigid to one client I might look

613
00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,840
Speaker 1: more like a Harrison forward to one client. Other clients

614
00:33:58,040 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: might be like, oh, I would say, she's more like

615
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,360
Speaker 1: Jason c. Goal. And that has a lot to do

616
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:06,880
Speaker 1: with our ability to make judgments, clinical judgments based on

617
00:34:06,880 --> 00:34:09,439
Speaker 1: what the client's needs, which goes back to I don't

618
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:11,399
Speaker 1: know if this was one of the first conversations we had,

619
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,640
Speaker 1: but we had a conversation about that post that a

620
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:17,920
Speaker 1: therapist had put up about if your if your therapist

621
00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:21,840
Speaker 1: won't tell you their political views. Dear God, that really

622
00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: boiled my blood. And part of that is because we

623
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:29,600
Speaker 1: have the ability to make clinical judgments based on the

624
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: skills that we have at us, right, that's right. It's

625
00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 1: my job to manage those parts of myself enough to

626
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 1: where everything I'm doing is working in the best interest

627
00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:44,240
Speaker 1: of you and your needs. Ye. So there's a lot of,

628
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:46,840
Speaker 1: you know, things that we have to navigate through and

629
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: around to do that, but it's our job to do

630
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 1: that very thoughtfully and carefully. And you know, I might

631
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: sometimes to certain clients using that scenario of you know,

632
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: just leave him, he's an asshole. I might sometimes instead

633
00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 1: say something like I am feeling so sad that you

634
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: were talked to like that because like, you're in really

635
00:35:08,640 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 1: incredible human beings. Yeah, that's like that. There isn't. I'm

636
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: a human right and you can I'm with you, and

637
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,719
Speaker 1: there is a bit of like, I just shared something

638
00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: about my own feeling, but it was in reference to you,

639
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:24,160
Speaker 1: and it was in the context of we have a relationship.

640
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: It's an acre one, but I still care about I

641
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: can speak about our relationship professionally in that kind of

642
00:35:31,080 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: way that is also intimate and meaningful. So there, I

643
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: like that. I really like that you just said that,

644
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 1: because yeah, I don't want especially if they're therapists out

645
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,359
Speaker 1: there listening, like you're allowed to share what comes up

646
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 1: for you in that space, but you're not sharing. Oh

647
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 1: that makes me sad because it reminds me of that

648
00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: this one time that this person did this to me,

649
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: and I just want you to stand up for yourself

650
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,040
Speaker 1: so you're not feeling what I felt back then. That's

651
00:35:55,239 --> 00:36:03,840
Speaker 1: very different. M Okay, now we're going to switch gears.

652
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: I told you one of the things we were going

653
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,160
Speaker 1: to talk about has nothing to do with um what

654
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: we just talked about, and it is something that came

655
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:16,640
Speaker 1: up for me at work this week because you will

656
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: see on Instagram, Pinterest, TikTok, Facebook, these quotes or these

657
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,239
Speaker 1: I mean, you'll even hear it. There's I'm sure there's

658
00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,680
Speaker 1: podcasts just about this topic. You'll hear people talk about

659
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: boundaries and how no is a complete sentence, and I

660
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:41,800
Speaker 1: do not think that always applies, which to some people

661
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 1: might be a hot take. Oh, yes it is. No,

662
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,320
Speaker 1: it's a complete sense. You don't ever have to explain yourself.

663
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: So what comes up for you when I say that? Yeah,

664
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,399
Speaker 1: I think you know, it's the just the always never

665
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:55,520
Speaker 1: think this is what we get in trouble with with

666
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:59,759
Speaker 1: throwing sentences out there like that. That's like, okay, I

667
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,200
Speaker 1: you know, we want to grab people's attention and give

668
00:37:02,239 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: them permission for a thing that is not commonly talked

669
00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,800
Speaker 1: about or said in such a way. But it often

670
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: leaves out that gray of it can be a complete sentence,

671
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,439
Speaker 1: and there's a lot of things that I would want

672
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 1: to share more about. Yeah, I was certain I would

673
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: change this quote and I would say no is a

674
00:37:24,640 --> 00:37:31,680
Speaker 1: complete sentence. And sometimes it's kind to give more information. Yes, wordy,

675
00:37:31,719 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: it's not as catchy. It's not as catchy. It's not

676
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,640
Speaker 1: as catchy that's not going to be the sound bite

677
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 1: that sounds that somebody's like, oh, I can't wait to

678
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,240
Speaker 1: listen to that podcast because I just said no. Sometimes

679
00:37:42,239 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 1: it's a complete sentence, and sometimes you need more information

680
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,120
Speaker 1: to be kind like like, oh my gosh, that's mind blowing.

681
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,239
Speaker 1: That came up for me because I was talking with

682
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:55,280
Speaker 1: somebody who's more of a people pleaser and they couldn't

683
00:37:55,280 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 1: wrap their mind around like I can't just if my

684
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,719
Speaker 1: friends coming to me needing something and I really don't

685
00:38:01,760 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 1: have the capacity for it. I just can't find myself

686
00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: just saying no, I don't have time for you, or

687
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,600
Speaker 1: just no, hey can I come over? I need to

688
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:12,239
Speaker 1: talk No. And I'm like, well, because you would never

689
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:17,680
Speaker 1: say that, like you having boundaries and you allowing yourself

690
00:38:17,680 --> 00:38:20,480
Speaker 1: to take care of yourself doesn't have to sound like that,

691
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:23,040
Speaker 1: Like what is another way you can say like I

692
00:38:23,120 --> 00:38:25,560
Speaker 1: don't have the space for that. I mean you could

693
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:27,080
Speaker 1: say I don't have the space for that right now,

694
00:38:27,360 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: but you said something earlier when I was talking about that,

695
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,759
Speaker 1: and you said, well, because that's rude. Yeah, Like, well,

696
00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,040
Speaker 1: let's do ask me. Tell me, I ask me, and

697
00:38:37,080 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 1: I'll just say it and we'll let people know why. Okay, yeah, guys,

698
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:43,400
Speaker 1: write down your notes of what your observations are in

699
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,120
Speaker 1: this interaction. So ter I'm having a really hard day,

700
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:54,680
Speaker 1: Can I come over? No, it's a complete sense, even

701
00:38:54,719 --> 00:38:59,200
Speaker 1: before they finished their's that's that's the hot take. You

702
00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,480
Speaker 1: can say no, but where they ask. But yeah, I

703
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:04,399
Speaker 1: feel as a friend, I will say I just felt

704
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: really shut down. I'm very confused because one you didn't

705
00:39:08,320 --> 00:39:11,960
Speaker 1: even get to hear me, but I don't. Yeah, I'm

706
00:39:12,000 --> 00:39:14,160
Speaker 1: I'm sitting here being very confused and a little bit hurt.

707
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,399
Speaker 1: I would say that this is not really a thing

708
00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 1: that makes sense in intimate relationships. I think it makes

709
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:28,720
Speaker 1: sense in dysfunctional relationships, in very boundaried relationships, and maybe

710
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:33,200
Speaker 1: even like non personal like sort of professional like. It

711
00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:37,239
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like it makes sense in an intimate relate,

712
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 1: like an emotionally intimate, close and connected relationship. I think

713
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,120
Speaker 1: you get to a point where you trust someone so

714
00:39:44,200 --> 00:39:46,839
Speaker 1: much where you can just say no. Like I've been

715
00:39:46,880 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: with my partment for thirteen years. There's a lot of

716
00:39:48,600 --> 00:39:51,279
Speaker 1: stuff I can just be like no, and it's not

717
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,000
Speaker 1: taken very personal at all because we know each other

718
00:39:54,840 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 1: and we know a whole bunch about everything that's going

719
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: on behind most of those nos, and so yeah, but

720
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,759
Speaker 1: an intimacy, but I would say so much more. Yeah,

721
00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,520
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, like you talking to your partner

722
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 1: about that, like asking a question, they're going to know

723
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,040
Speaker 1: also what's really going on in your life? Probably, But yeah,

724
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,919
Speaker 1: and some of these friendships, it's I might say, let's

725
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:20,319
Speaker 1: say a boss set emails me, can you stay after

726
00:40:20,360 --> 00:40:22,319
Speaker 1: work tomorrow and do blah blah blah. No, you don't

727
00:40:22,320 --> 00:40:24,120
Speaker 1: have to give your boss an explanation of why you

728
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: cannot work over time. You can just say no. But

729
00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: when your friend is having a moment and they're like,

730
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:33,040
Speaker 1: do you have a second, and you really don't, it

731
00:40:33,200 --> 00:40:36,240
Speaker 1: might be really helpful to that friend, who you usually

732
00:40:36,280 --> 00:40:38,600
Speaker 1: are very available for, to hear why all of a

733
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,759
Speaker 1: sudden you don't have time for them. And I think

734
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,239
Speaker 1: this is where people probably get caught up, is then

735
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: what right? Then they go into an over justification or

736
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 1: they say, you know, instead of saying no, they're like,

737
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:54,600
Speaker 1: well I wish I could, but or I don't know.

738
00:40:54,719 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 1: I have all this DA day, I could switch some

739
00:40:57,239 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: things around, but um that right now it's not looking

740
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,520
Speaker 1: good it's that kind of in between of like I'm

741
00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:05,920
Speaker 1: not actually giving my answer directly. I'm not saying I

742
00:41:05,960 --> 00:41:07,960
Speaker 1: can't do that for you right now at all, because

743
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:09,920
Speaker 1: I'm kind of avoiding it. I'm being a little bit

744
00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:12,680
Speaker 1: passive with how I'm saying. I'm busy, I this I

745
00:41:12,680 --> 00:41:14,880
Speaker 1: have that I'll try, and then I never get around

746
00:41:14,880 --> 00:41:18,239
Speaker 1: to it, and so I think it's not going in

747
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,920
Speaker 1: either direction. It's more of the middle line, you know,

748
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:23,160
Speaker 1: of some like wait, so can you or can you

749
00:41:23,200 --> 00:41:27,040
Speaker 1: not right? But it could be something like if I like,

750
00:41:27,160 --> 00:41:29,040
Speaker 1: what's a better way for me to ask, Hey, do

751
00:41:29,040 --> 00:41:31,279
Speaker 1: you have time after we record this? It really have

752
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:34,520
Speaker 1: something I need to talk about and I'm feeling really lost.

753
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:37,759
Speaker 1: I don't have time today. I'm really sorry that I

754
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,080
Speaker 1: won't be able to to sit with you for a

755
00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:44,239
Speaker 1: little bit longer to talk about that. I might say

756
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: something like I have an appointment right after this that

757
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 1: I have to make. I have had a really difficult

758
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:53,760
Speaker 1: day at work and it kind of is apped my energy,

759
00:41:53,840 --> 00:41:55,480
Speaker 1: so I don't think I'll be able to show up

760
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:59,000
Speaker 1: very well for you. And then the great thing to

761
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,480
Speaker 1: throw on the end of any no is can we

762
00:42:02,520 --> 00:42:06,919
Speaker 1: find another time now? That's if you if I want

763
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:11,920
Speaker 1: you and I want to. Yeah, I like that because

764
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: I was thinking I would say something like, I, I mean,

765
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 1: I have an appointment after this. I don't have the space.

766
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: I'm so sorry that you're going through that, and that

767
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: can literally be it like I don't have the time.

768
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: I wish I could help you, because I think I mean,

769
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,800
Speaker 1: I'm not lying in that if I had an appointment

770
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,520
Speaker 1: after this and I couldn't, I wish I could be

771
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 1: there for you have an appointment. I'm really sorry you're

772
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 1: going through that, and thanks for even sharing what you

773
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:36,799
Speaker 1: did share. It doesn't just have to be like no,

774
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:38,440
Speaker 1: I can't, I gotta go and then you run out

775
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,920
Speaker 1: the door. But the reason I said, like if you

776
00:42:40,960 --> 00:42:43,920
Speaker 1: want to is sometimes we say like, oh I can't,

777
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 1: but but maybe I can squeeze you at this time.

778
00:42:46,440 --> 00:42:48,640
Speaker 1: It's like if you can't, you can't, And it's okay

779
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 1: to say that. It's okay to disappoint somebody else. That's

780
00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:55,399
Speaker 1: not what we're talking about. What I'm really talking about

781
00:42:55,520 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 1: is like we need to think about the people that

782
00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:01,640
Speaker 1: were in relationships with about like I mean that treat

783
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: other people how you want to be treated. I don't

784
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 1: want you to not let me finish my sentence, so

785
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna finish. I'm gonna let you finish your sentence,

786
00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:11,120
Speaker 1: and I'm going to be a human being back to you.

787
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:14,080
Speaker 1: I mean, I would even say it's okay for other

788
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 1: people to be disappointed rather than it's okay for me

789
00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:23,840
Speaker 1: to disappoint them. That's that's a little therapist okay, because

790
00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: I didn't do anything wrong right, So I don't have

791
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: to take ownership over their experience of it. It's just

792
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: the reality of the situation. They have a need I

793
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,840
Speaker 1: can't meet it. That probably does leave them feeling like

794
00:43:35,920 --> 00:43:39,680
Speaker 1: there's a loss of some kind. And that's not my job.

795
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,439
Speaker 1: That's not on me. It's nice when I can, it's

796
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: not my responsibility when I can't. I like that. Actually,

797
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,719
Speaker 1: it does tie in with what we were talking about too,

798
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,240
Speaker 1: of just talking about boundaries. Of our boundaries don't always

799
00:43:51,239 --> 00:43:53,919
Speaker 1: have to be so rigid or so diffused where we're

800
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: either like not able to give an answer or we

801
00:43:57,320 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: are just cutting people off and leaving our relationships very dry.

802
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:05,520
Speaker 1: There's always a nice, gray, nuanced middle ground, and those

803
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 1: boundaries are going to be different with different people. Just

804
00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 1: like they're different with different clients. Yeah, and to queue

805
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:16,879
Speaker 1: and back the what is therapy? Actually, it's this, it's

806
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 1: when we're in it, when you're in your life circumstance

807
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:23,600
Speaker 1: and you have only talked about these had these kind

808
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 1: of conversations a certain kind of way, or seeing it

809
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,359
Speaker 1: demonstrated a certain kind of way. So much of what

810
00:44:28,400 --> 00:44:30,560
Speaker 1: I do with people a lot of times is just

811
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: like give different words to that kind of conversation, Like

812
00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,920
Speaker 1: instead of just saying no, I don't have the energy

813
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: for you right now, which can feel abrasive for someone

814
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:44,320
Speaker 1: who's especially like kind of care dependent or caring or

815
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: dared doing, to say just like helping them like what

816
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,759
Speaker 1: about this word? Or what well? What is really going on? Why?

817
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,560
Speaker 1: And that's also what would it be like to say

818
00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: it this way? Would that feel like you? I like that?

819
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:57,799
Speaker 1: Because one of the things that I think therapy is

820
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: is it helps people come back back to the true

821
00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:04,279
Speaker 1: version of who they are versus who they think other

822
00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:06,440
Speaker 1: people expect them to be, or who the world has

823
00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:08,920
Speaker 1: taught them that they need to be. And that hits

824
00:45:08,960 --> 00:45:11,440
Speaker 1: on that like if the world expects me to always

825
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:13,600
Speaker 1: be available, then I'm always available. But that's not me

826
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,719
Speaker 1: and that doesn't feel like me. But also being abrasive

827
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,480
Speaker 1: and cutting people off also doesn't feel like me. So

828
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 1: therapy helps you get to a place where you can

829
00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,960
Speaker 1: respond in a way that allows you to be you

830
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 1: the most you way. And that is one of the

831
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 1: reasons why we cannot tell you what to say. Yeah, yeah,

832
00:45:31,160 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: we can give you like ideas. I mean that too

833
00:45:34,200 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 1: makes me think of just asking like, well, what is it,

834
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,920
Speaker 1: what's going on? Why can't you do it? Like letting

835
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 1: a person actually investigate Why don't you want to, you know,

836
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:48,080
Speaker 1: go to Christmas with yourself and so like get underneath

837
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,839
Speaker 1: just the reactive part of it to the truth about

838
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,359
Speaker 1: why it matters to you or what's happening for you.

839
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 1: And then you want to say more than just know,

840
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 1: because if these are people that are intimate relationships, you

841
00:45:58,920 --> 00:46:03,600
Speaker 1: would want to share what you know about yourself with them,

842
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:07,640
Speaker 1: to say, oh, here's actually what's happening for me in

843
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 1: this So no, I can't go and in that space

844
00:46:12,840 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 1: with you. It's like that's also why you know, I

845
00:46:16,560 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: would want to say more than just no, because I

846
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:22,160
Speaker 1: want people to know me. Yeah, I will say if

847
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 1: you told me that you had had a really taxing

848
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,839
Speaker 1: time at work or something along those lines. I think

849
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 1: that also gives the that when you said, like, I

850
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: can be disappointed, but it doesn't mean you're disappointed me. Me, I,

851
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:38,880
Speaker 1: because of who I am, might receive that differently than

852
00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,920
Speaker 1: somebody else. I'd be like, thank god she told me that,

853
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:43,520
Speaker 1: because I want somebody who is able to be there

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00:46:43,560 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: with me and X y Z. And I'm glad she

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00:46:45,160 --> 00:46:48,080
Speaker 1: didn't do something because she felt obligated versus somebody might

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00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:51,319
Speaker 1: be like, I'm a burden to you, which you don't

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00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: get to decide. If you're a burden to somebody, they

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00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:56,360
Speaker 1: get to decide that, and you didn't say that. So anyway,

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00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,080
Speaker 1: I like that, and I'm glad that actually full circle

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00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: came together. If you have any questions, feedback thoughts, send

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00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:06,080
Speaker 1: them our way. If you want to give us your

862
00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:10,200
Speaker 1: interpretation of therapy after listening to this episode, we'd also

863
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,680
Speaker 1: like that. I like hearing from you. Guys. You can

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00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: follow the podcast at You Need Therapy podcast and on

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00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: Instagram me at cat dot de fata. Tara does not

866
00:47:20,120 --> 00:47:22,680
Speaker 1: want you to follow her because she doesn't have a

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00:47:22,719 --> 00:47:25,600
Speaker 1: public Instagram account, but it's not because she doesn't like you.

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00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: I like you all. I like you all even though

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00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:30,879
Speaker 1: I don't know you, and that's gonna do it. I'll

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00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: be back on Wednesday eight for couch Talks, and I

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00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:35,680
Speaker 1: hope you have the day, the moment, the hour, the

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00:47:35,719 --> 00:47:43,560
Speaker 1: second that you need to have. Bye Bye,