Speaker 1: I am all in.
Speaker 2: That's just you. I Am all in with Scott Patterson
Speaker 2: an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 3: Everybody Scott Patterson, I Am all In Podcast one eleven productions, iHeartRadio, iHeartMedia,
Speaker 3: iHeart Podcast. One on one interview with Jonathan Decker, who
Speaker 3: is an LMFT. He is a licensed marriage and Family
Speaker 3: therapist and the CEO of Cinema Therapy and clinical director
Speaker 3: of Mended Light. He is a movie buff who has
Speaker 3: started a YouTube channel of therapizing if that's a word,
Speaker 3: a TV and film. He's got some links to Laurele
Speaker 3: I and Emily Scenes, Luke and Laurel I Scene, all
Speaker 3: kinds of things.
Speaker 1: iHeart podcasts. Listen on the iHeartRadio app.
Speaker 3: Tell us a little bit about how you ended up
Speaker 3: analyzing films and TV shows and characters they're in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you for having me. I am a
Speaker 2: forty three year old late bloomer for Gilmore Girls. I
Speaker 2: missed it by a couple of decades and now I'm
Speaker 2: just adoring it and can't get enough of it. But
Speaker 2: I've gotten to psychology. I wanted to be a filmmaker
Speaker 2: or director or a therapist, and when I was in
Speaker 2: school that's I was leaning one way or the other.
Speaker 2: Finally some work with some Matris teenagers, kind of like Jess.
Speaker 2: It steered me in the direction of psychology and therapy.
Speaker 2: But my passion for film never left me. And you know,
Speaker 2: I'd love to use movies and TV shows to illustrate
Speaker 2: abstract concepts about when you're talking about. Because I became
Speaker 2: a family therapist, healthy relationships, unhealthy relationships, What do these
Speaker 2: principles look like? Applied? And I found that film and
Speaker 2: TV was perfect in classes and in therapy for illustrating
Speaker 2: what I was talking about.
Speaker 1: So why did you choose Gilmore Girls?
Speaker 2: I chose Gilmore Girls. That was actually our fans. So
Speaker 2: I've got the two channels Cinema Therapy and then Mended
Speaker 2: Light and Men Died Light. We do more television breakdowns,
Speaker 2: and the fans on Mended Light. I was asking, you know,
Speaker 2: what should I do next? I covered a couple of things,
Speaker 2: Buffy the Vampire Schleayer, Euphoria, a couple of things, and
Speaker 2: overwhelmingly the demand was for Gilmore Girls, far more than
Speaker 2: any show that's airing now, I have to say, And
Speaker 2: I was in my twenties when Gilmore Girls came out.
Speaker 2: I was not especially interested at the time. I was
Speaker 2: super into twenty four and Lost in the Office and
Speaker 2: things like that. And what's funny to me now that
Speaker 2: I'm watching Gilmore Girls is Luke is a character who
Speaker 2: would likely not watch a show called Gilmore Girls.
Speaker 1: That's for sure.
Speaker 2: So I see it, but I see him. If I
Speaker 2: had watched it, then I really I would have realized, Oh,
Speaker 2: Luke is, in addition to being a wonderful character in
Speaker 2: his own right, strategically, he's the surrogate for the boyfriends
Speaker 2: and the husbands who might not take interest to are
Speaker 2: forced to watch this show with their girlfriends or their wives.
Speaker 2: And then and then they attached to Luke. You know
Speaker 2: that that Luke kind of keeps everything real, keeps everything dry,
Speaker 2: brings it down to earth.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 2: But and so I started doing reaction videos to talk
Speaker 2: about the relationships on Gilmore Girls, and they are far
Speaker 2: and away our most popular videos on the channel. People
Speaker 2: just can't get enough of them, which staying power because
Speaker 2: you know, it's been a minute since you've been on
Speaker 2: the air, and people just revisit it and love it
Speaker 2: and share it with their their own daughters. And strangely
Speaker 2: I'm drawn into it.
Speaker 1: Let's get into the therapy of it.
Speaker 2: Then.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we think laurla I moved too fast into
Speaker 3: a relationship with Christopher. What do you think was her
Speaker 3: thought processing that was trying to use him to heal
Speaker 3: from Luke.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I listen. Having so a little bit of
Speaker 2: a quick background, I was part way through the fourth
Speaker 2: season when I got contacted about this podcast, and I
Speaker 2: have crammed for the Final Life so in the past
Speaker 2: week and a half binging gil Girls from season four,
Speaker 2: season seven, and so it's all very fresh for me.
Speaker 2: And I do think Loralai has always used Christopher as
Speaker 2: the It was the plan that she had in mind
Speaker 2: if he ever grew up right, if he ever got
Speaker 2: his act together. And I absolutely think she realized that
Speaker 2: Luke is her soulmate. I think she realized that Luke
Speaker 2: is better to her than anyone's ever been to her,
Speaker 2: and that wound is so fresh and so deep that
Speaker 2: she's going to go to what she's comfortable with, even
Speaker 2: though she knows it's wrong, right wrong for her. She's
Speaker 2: been down that road with Christopher several times, and the
Speaker 2: biggest determinant of that is not because Christopher has grown
Speaker 2: up in a lot of ways, but is where her
Speaker 2: heart lies. And her heart absolutely lies with Luke. There's
Speaker 2: no ifs ans or butts about that. I was team
Speaker 2: Luke from the first episode. By the way, I'm not
Speaker 2: even brown nosing. I'm just saying, before I even knew
Speaker 2: that you had a podcast or that you and I
Speaker 2: were going to be interacting in all my videos, I
Speaker 2: just kept saying, if she doesn't lose, if she doesn't
Speaker 2: choose Luke by the end, I'm gonna riot.
Speaker 1: And riot we will.
Speaker 3: So the obvious advice would be for Laura I to
Speaker 3: give herself more time between dumping Luke and getting involved
Speaker 3: with Christopher again.
Speaker 1: But do you think that part of her wanted to.
Speaker 3: At least try to see if it could work out
Speaker 3: to complete her own family dynamic.
Speaker 2: She didn't want to live with it. What if. I
Speaker 2: don't know that she needed to take it all the
Speaker 2: way to marriage, but to always whether she ended up
Speaker 2: with Luke or not, should I close the door on
Speaker 2: Christopher permanently or could it work out this time? And
Speaker 2: I think she needed to explore that space in order
Speaker 2: to have to have closure, and for all she knew
Speaker 2: it was going to work out this time. Right, and
Speaker 2: she entered into it perhaps headstrong and perhaps on the
Speaker 2: rebound and perhaps hurting, but I think she entered into
Speaker 2: it with good faith of want I want to have
Speaker 2: this family dynamic that I've always wanted to have. And
Speaker 2: what I love about the previous episode to the one
Speaker 2: we're talking about today, or at least I guess the
Speaker 2: past couple episodes, when she writes that letter for Luke,
Speaker 2: it's because she realizes that Luke has been more of
Speaker 2: a father to Rory than Christopher ever was, and he's
Speaker 2: in that sense been more of a partner to me
Speaker 2: and in a lot of other senses as well.
Speaker 3: M all right, so you know that Christopher really pushed
Speaker 3: her to marry him in Paris? Yeah, what would have
Speaker 3: been a different option to handle the forceful way Christopher
Speaker 3: was asking Laurel I to marry him.
Speaker 1: What should Laurel I maybe have done?
Speaker 2: I think if there is one of one of loural
Speaker 2: Live's weaknesses and one of her beautiful characteristics, honestly, is
Speaker 2: that she can be spontaneous and what she's feeling is
Speaker 2: what she runs with, and sometimes she regrets that and
Speaker 2: sometimes following her gut leads her down the path. Christopher
Speaker 2: pressured her, and she yielded, And I think she yielded,
Speaker 2: as you were saying, for all for other reasons you're
Speaker 2: talking about. I think she wanted to test this family dynamic,
Speaker 2: see that could finally work. I think the fact that
Speaker 2: if you have ever loved somebody and there's still goodwill
Speaker 2: between you, then that love is always there. It may
Speaker 2: change form, it may no longer be romantic, it may
Speaker 2: no longer be sexual, but the people that matter to
Speaker 2: us will always matter to us. And so it gets
Speaker 2: kind of hazy. So what could she have done? She
Speaker 2: could have asked for time. She could have said, you know,
Speaker 2: we're in Paris and I'm heartbroken and I don't want
Speaker 2: to end up alone, and so I don't know if
Speaker 2: I want to say yes to you, Christopher. I don't
Speaker 2: know if that's Paris and my loneliness talking, or if
Speaker 2: that's because this is right and I've been through enough
Speaker 2: that I really want to make sure it's on stable footing.
Speaker 2: So I'm not saying no. I'm saying, let me let
Speaker 2: me think about it, and let me let me examine
Speaker 2: my heart and see what it is that I want
Speaker 2: to do.
Speaker 3: What do you think of Christopher's he is he just
Speaker 3: selfish or is he a narcissist?
Speaker 1: Because it always seems to come back. I mean even
Speaker 1: when he's you know, it's always about him.
Speaker 3: He always makes it about him, and he has inconvenience
Speaker 3: and he was busy and I'm sorry I couldn't. You know,
Speaker 3: he didn't show up at the hospital in season seven
Speaker 3: for Richard because he was a little in a snit
Speaker 3: over Luke.
Speaker 2: I would say more selfish than narcissism. I mean, you
Speaker 2: can say there's narcissistic traits there. The key thing about
Speaker 2: you know, narcissistic personality disorder that separates it from ego
Speaker 2: or self absorption is a lack of passion, is a
Speaker 2: lack of empathy. And Christopher feels genuine remorse when he
Speaker 2: hurts people. The issue with him is that he's so
Speaker 2: consistently he's the yin to you to Luke's yang, because
Speaker 2: Christopher so consistently puts himself first, and then he feels
Speaker 2: bad for hurting others for when he does that and
Speaker 2: Luke does the opposite. He consistently puts other people first,
Speaker 2: and then what's left for him, you know, And I
Speaker 2: think that's one of the reasons why Luke is so
Speaker 2: often unhappy and grumpy is because he gives so much
Speaker 2: because he doesn't know how to not give. And I
Speaker 2: love watching some of you know, Luke's journey to kind
Speaker 2: of a healthier self interest, right to finding that balance
Speaker 2: because the thing that I love about Luke all the
Speaker 2: way back to one of my favorite moments very early on,
Speaker 2: is he hates and mocks the whole we're going to
Speaker 2: go stand out in the snow and do the Revolutionary
Speaker 2: War reenactment, but he still brings the guy's coffee, right,
Speaker 2: and then when they ask for when they say can
Speaker 2: we get hot chocolate or apple cider instead? Instead of
Speaker 2: saying are you kidding me? He just goes and they
Speaker 2: starts taking people's words, Like Luke is always gonna do
Speaker 2: the selfless thing, and I think Christopher is the opposite
Speaker 2: of that.
Speaker 3: Well, let's move on to the breakup. Do you think
Speaker 3: that Christopher could have changed his jealous ways when it
Speaker 3: came to Luke and because he displayed this kind of
Speaker 3: immaturity and jealousy. First of all, do you think that
Speaker 3: jealousy was justified? Do you think her behavior was in
Speaker 3: any way antagonistic or disrespectful toward Christopher.
Speaker 2: Ah, if it was, it certainly wasn't deliberate, right. I
Speaker 2: think Loralai was coming from a place of sincerity. And
Speaker 2: the thing about Christopher is, we're watching someone across the series,
Speaker 2: and when all the characters are like this, we're watching
Speaker 2: a growth arc, right, We're watching people grow into maturity.
Speaker 2: And Christopher has come a long way since we first
Speaker 2: met him, but in other ways he hasn't, And especially
Speaker 2: when his insecurity is he I think wants to be
Speaker 2: He wants to be desired and he wants to be loved,
Speaker 2: and that's fine, that's a human need. But the issue
Speaker 2: is if somebody else is desired and loved instead of me,
Speaker 2: is that a deficiency on my part instead of just
Speaker 2: simply this is who the other person chooses, you know.
Speaker 2: And in defense of Christopher, they are. They are married
Speaker 2: and so he's not entitled. But I do understand that
Speaker 2: that would be a painful thing to recognize and realize.
Speaker 2: But the mature, the mature way to handle it is
Speaker 2: always if it's if it's truly love, I want you
Speaker 2: to be with me, but more than that, I want
Speaker 2: you to be happy. And if you're not going to
Speaker 2: be happy with me. If you're going to be happier
Speaker 2: with Luke, if you're going to be happier on your own,
Speaker 2: then I want that for you. And what I see
Speaker 2: with Christopher a lot is is not necessarily actual love
Speaker 2: for Lorli. The attraction is there, attack is there, even
Speaker 2: affection is there like and it's all genuine and sincere.
Speaker 2: But in order for it to be love, it has
Speaker 2: to be what do you what do you need for
Speaker 2: your happiness? And I want that for you?
Speaker 1: And he just wasn't willing. Well. He eventually did come
Speaker 1: around to that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know he was. He was afraid of
Speaker 3: losing hers. He was really just hanging on for dear life.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, And I think that's a very compassionate
Speaker 2: way to look at him. And the fact is we
Speaker 2: we tend to be very judgmental of people and their
Speaker 2: behaviors and just in general. And if you look at
Speaker 2: any Gilmore Girls fan forums, I mean there's people of
Speaker 2: all sorts of opinions and get fired up because they
Speaker 2: care so much. But the fact is, most of our
Speaker 2: most harmful behaviors, most of the things that we do
Speaker 2: that cause the most pain, come from a place of
Speaker 2: our own pain come from we want to Everyone wants
Speaker 2: to feel safe, respected and loved, and our worst behaviors
Speaker 2: are either efforts to be safe, respected and loved or
Speaker 2: reactions to not feeling safe, respected and loved. And so
Speaker 2: I don't fault Christopher. I just feel like it's a
Speaker 2: shame he lacks the maturity because if he could show
Speaker 2: up with maturity, with selflessness, with integrity, and with accountability,
Speaker 2: he could have ended up with Laura Lai. There are
Speaker 2: several times while watching the show, I'm like, oh, I mean,
Speaker 2: I'm team Luke, but I can I wouldn't hate it
Speaker 2: if she ended up with Christopher. I thought that several
Speaker 2: times during the show. But every time he did something,
Speaker 2: you know, out of his own self interest first and
Speaker 2: foremost before his daughter and the mother of his daughter,
Speaker 2: I fell back on your side, brom.
Speaker 3: So, all right, so this, you know, it all ended
Speaker 3: between Laura and Christopher, with her saying you're the man
Speaker 3: I want to want. Why do you think it took
Speaker 3: her so long to get there? Let's go to the
Speaker 3: end of the relationship.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 3: So with Laura I and Christopher mutually agreeing that they
Speaker 3: should go their separate ways, she says, you're the man
Speaker 3: I want to want.
Speaker 1: Why do you think it took her this long to
Speaker 1: get there?
Speaker 2: I think the Gilmours are a passionate family. I look
Speaker 2: at Richard and Emily and for all their pretenses of
Speaker 2: high society and doing things the proper way, you look
Speaker 2: at any time they feel offended or slided, and it's
Speaker 2: all passion. And it's a similar thing with Rory and
Speaker 2: with Laura. I it's hard to follow your head when
Speaker 2: you're just guided by your heart. And that's the thing
Speaker 2: about these these passionate characters, is Lorelai why did it
Speaker 2: take her so long to say this to Christopher to
Speaker 2: get there? Because of Max Medina, because of Luke, because
Speaker 2: of the things that she wants out of her life,
Speaker 2: because the times that she's felt hurt and had to
Speaker 2: protect herself, you know, from from a million things where
Speaker 2: it's hard to know what you actually want when you're
Speaker 2: focused on the feeling of the moment.
Speaker 1: Boy, is that that is the truest statement?
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, people really get lost in the moment, don't they,
Speaker 3: And they just forget about the macro they do.
Speaker 2: And that's and that's one thing I always liked about
Speaker 2: Luke you know, and I don't want to be a
Speaker 2: such a Luke stand here that I can't admit his faults.
Speaker 2: But is Luke from the opening episode, Luke knows exactly
Speaker 2: who is. He loves his diner, you know, he tolerates
Speaker 2: the people in the town and secretly adores them and
Speaker 2: would do anything for them, but he's not going to
Speaker 2: let them know that, you know. And he craves a
Speaker 2: simple life and deeply he craves he craves connection. But
Speaker 2: you know, when when Richard's trying to get Luke to
Speaker 2: franchise uh and and Emily's basically telling Luke you're not
Speaker 2: good enough, it, it shakes him in it for a moment.
Speaker 2: But what Luke always comes back to is I know
Speaker 2: what I want. And I think Luke is the opposite
Speaker 2: of Loraai because Luke sometimes is too much in his head.
Speaker 2: I think he's too much what's here's the here's the choice,
Speaker 2: here's what I'm doing, here's my life. And you know,
Speaker 2: especially in seasons five and you see kind of lore
Speaker 2: Lie opening up more of that that heart side of
Speaker 2: Luke that he's kept buried. And that's why I think
Speaker 2: they're a good balance for each other because Luke is
Speaker 2: a stabilizing influence for Law overall, and Lorelai helps Luke
Speaker 2: to come out and to feel and to be presentent
Speaker 2: and not be detached and distant.
Speaker 3: Right, right, let's do a sidebar, yeah, because because I
Speaker 3: want to talk about a little bit about and then
Speaker 3: we'll get back on the Luke Laurelei Christopher dynamic. But
Speaker 3: since since it's so prevalent in season seven, but tell
Speaker 3: me about your thoughts on because the thing I always
Speaker 3: wondered and what I found fascinating about Laurel's character is
Speaker 3: how quippy she is and how clever she is, and
Speaker 3: how fast and funny she is, and how the humor
Speaker 3: is constant.
Speaker 1: And people often.
Speaker 3: Do that because they are uncomfortable in a situation and
Speaker 3: they know intimacy or they can't be intimate in that
Speaker 3: situation with loved ones or friends or whatever.
Speaker 1: So it's just like joke after joke after show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a defense makes it's a protective mask.
Speaker 2: This is something in our in our mended light reactions
Speaker 2: to Gilmore Girls that I've said is simultaneously endearing to
Speaker 2: Lauraai about about Loralai to me and drives me crazy.
Speaker 2: Is anytime there is an apology to be made, she
Speaker 2: leads with a very awkward icebreaker and further alienates the
Speaker 2: people that she's hurt. He sees then and then I
Speaker 2: remember there's a different episode where Rory does the same thing,
Speaker 2: and I said, yep, they are family. But that's just
Speaker 2: but that's just good writing. You know that that type
Speaker 2: of consistency, and it absolutely is this this fear of vulnerability,
Speaker 2: and I think she comes by that honestly. You know,
Speaker 2: vulnerability was punished in her family growing up. Declaring what
Speaker 2: you want, declaring your hurt was met with defensiveness and
Speaker 2: blame shifting and and Laurie, Laura, I was never allowed
Speaker 2: to just be real. And so this is how she
Speaker 2: learned to cope. And you see this with her parents
Speaker 2: all the time. Loralai is always throwing jokes towards her
Speaker 2: parents that her parents don't think is funny, but Laura
Speaker 2: doesn't care. They're not for them, for her, They're gonna
Speaker 2: help her. They're gonna help her to feel more comfortable.
Speaker 2: Like she's having a little one woman show and she's
Speaker 2: both the performer and the audience, you.
Speaker 4: Know, exactly exactly, Yeah, but you also see, speaking of
Speaker 4: character growth, when she's truly comfortable with a person, she
Speaker 4: doesn't feel the need to do that.
Speaker 2: There are times with Rory that she doesn't lead with jokes.
Speaker 2: There are times with Luke that she doesn't lead with jokes.
Speaker 2: There are times you know in this episode that I
Speaker 2: that we just watched a season seven episode fifteen, she
Speaker 2: has a beautiful conversation with her mother where she tells
Speaker 2: her mother that she and Christopher broke up and I
Speaker 2: wrote it down. I thought it was so f she says,
Speaker 2: we split up. I don't know, and then Emily says,
Speaker 2: I don't know what to say, and Laurai says, really,
Speaker 2: that's great.
Speaker 1: And that's great. You don't ever have to say anything.
Speaker 1: We don't have to talk about it, right, it's good.
Speaker 2: We're we're all good. Yeah. But Emily for the first
Speaker 2: time shows just not maybe not for the first time,
Speaker 2: but we're seeing late in the in the series, Emily
Speaker 2: more and more just being real and valuing emotion over
Speaker 2: over prestige or status or stat or or the norms
Speaker 2: right that she's supposed to fulfill. And when Lauraai feels
Speaker 2: comfortable with her mom, she jokes less m and then
Speaker 2: when LAURAAI jokes, it's not to protect herself, it's just
Speaker 2: because she's still She's still her, she still likes to
Speaker 2: amuse herself, right, but it's no longer a mask.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 2: And that's the difference, right.
Speaker 3: Would you say that with Laura l I there's a
Speaker 3: reservoir of anger toward Emily and even toward Richard because
Speaker 3: of the experience of being pregnant sixteen pretty much being
Speaker 3: banished for not yeah, you know, telling the Gilmore line
Speaker 3: as it were.
Speaker 1: Do you do you find that to be the case?
Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, and we see that all throughout the series,
Speaker 2: that there are steps towards healing. But I like to
Speaker 2: tell people we have the wrong idea about forgiveness. We
Speaker 2: think forgiveness is a I forgive you and then it's done.
Speaker 2: It's like it never happened. But forgiveness to me is
Speaker 2: like exercise. You have to you have to do it
Speaker 2: consistently to see the benefits, and this family takes It's hard.
Speaker 2: It's hard to forgive because there's so little accountability. But
Speaker 2: whenever it does happen and steps are made, the pain resurfaces. Right,
Speaker 2: Those wounds don't just go away. So it's not like
Speaker 2: you forgive somebody and then the wounds are gone. I
Speaker 2: forgive every time the pain comes up. I forgive every
Speaker 2: time the offense happens, because that's how I have to
Speaker 2: deal with it. And so what we see across the
Speaker 2: entire series is a family healing baby steps, just these
Speaker 2: tiny little micro steps at a time.
Speaker 3: So it's your defining forgiveness as something that is to
Speaker 3: make a commitment too, because it's going to that forgiveness.
Speaker 3: Is that same forgiveness of that same issue is going
Speaker 3: to rise up time and time and time again throughout
Speaker 3: your life with that individual.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I want to make a caveat because forgiveness,
Speaker 2: forgiveness and trust are not the same thing. I think
Speaker 2: trust has to be earned, and in order for us
Speaker 2: to have close relationships, there has to be trust, which
Speaker 2: is why several times throughout the series you see Loralai
Speaker 2: withdrawing from her parents because there's no trust there, there's
Speaker 2: no safety there. It doesn't mean she hates them, it
Speaker 2: doesn't mean she doesn't love them. It just means she
Speaker 2: doesn't feel safe with them. Forgiveness is I'm releasing bitterness
Speaker 2: and anger so that I don't carry it with me.
Speaker 1: Right, So it's for you.
Speaker 3: It's almost a selfish thing, or it's a healing thing,
Speaker 3: a personal healing thing.
Speaker 2: It's a self healing thing, and we extend compassion to
Speaker 2: the person who gives offense by understanding where they come from.
Speaker 2: If Loralai were in therapy with me throughout the series,
Speaker 2: I'd be like, look, we can't control what your parents do.
Speaker 2: We can try to influence, we can try and help
Speaker 2: them have light bulb moments to see things differently, but
Speaker 2: they've shown their incredibly rigid so we can't control what
Speaker 2: they do. We can control what you do, and every
Speaker 2: time they hurt you when you choose to let go,
Speaker 2: not to condone and not to say it's okay, but
Speaker 2: to say, Emily's gonna and Emily's gonna Emily and Richard's gonna. Richard, Right,
Speaker 2: They're gonna do what they do. So how close do
Speaker 2: I want to be with them depends on how much
Speaker 2: I trust them. Not a lot Friday night dinners, Right,
Speaker 2: that's what we got. We're not much in each other's
Speaker 2: lives other than that because there's no trust there. But
Speaker 2: Loralai could be happier unless bothered by what Emily and
Speaker 2: Richard do by practicing forgiveness. Again, it's not because they
Speaker 2: deserve it. It's because this is how I keep my
Speaker 2: side of the street clean. It's how I heal and
Speaker 2: when we have interactions, it's how I keep things from
Speaker 2: going bad on my end, right, I help de escalate
Speaker 2: the situation.
Speaker 3: Interesting, forgiveness is a powerful thing. It is, yeah, a powerful,
Speaker 3: powerful thing.
Speaker 1: What do you think about the way.
Speaker 3: Luke and Laurel I communicate because it seems like it
Speaker 3: seems like, you know, we discussed in a nauseum about
Speaker 3: the April coming and seeing him wanting to spend time
Speaker 3: with her away from Laurel I, and he kind of
Speaker 3: shut Laurel I e out of that whole experience.
Speaker 1: What do you think about that whole arc?
Speaker 2: So as candidly, there's two parts of me. There's a
Speaker 2: part of me that is frustrated because it feels like, well,
Speaker 2: we don't have a finish line for the series, so
Speaker 2: we're creating some new drama when after all these seasons,
Speaker 2: I like a lot of people just want to see
Speaker 2: Luke and Loralei together and more or less happy, right,
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I don't think it's untrue
Speaker 2: to Luke. Luke and Lorali both strike me as people
Speaker 2: who've experienced what I call micro traumas right. We often
Speaker 2: in the psychological world we think of trauma. We think
Speaker 2: of near death experiences, right or abuse or some heinous
Speaker 2: acts of violence, or near or almost dying. But the
Speaker 2: fact is, like the little things can pile up and
Speaker 2: have the same response in our in our brains right
Speaker 2: where where we feel triggered, and then we want to
Speaker 2: with wrong, and we take actions to protect ourselves, and
Speaker 2: we lie instinctively because we don't want to be hurt again,
Speaker 2: or because we don't want to hurt a person that
Speaker 2: we care about. Was I frustrated that Luke didn't tell
Speaker 2: Laura Liaie for such an extended period of time. Yes,
Speaker 2: I think everybody was. I'm you you probably were. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, I don't think it's it's untrue
Speaker 2: to somebody like Luke who has had his heart broken
Speaker 2: a bunch of times, someone like Luke who has lost
Speaker 2: his lost his father, has had a rocky relationship with
Speaker 2: his sister, who took Jess in and completely gave his
Speaker 2: heart and soul to Jess. I mean the fact that
Speaker 2: he was you know, a bit of a bit of
Speaker 2: a punk about it the whole time is just Luke,
Speaker 2: but but he was, he was one hundred percent there
Speaker 2: for Jess. And how many times this man feels like
Speaker 2: I've done something where I screwed it up, because that's
Speaker 2: that's part of Luke's selflessness is he also takes responsibility
Speaker 2: for the happiness of other people, right, And so Luke
Speaker 2: having a daughter that he didn't know about, he now
Speaker 2: feels like I missed all these years where I could
Speaker 2: have been a dad, where I could have been there
Speaker 2: for her. I imagine there's a little bit of looking
Speaker 2: in the mirror, feeling like a failure of why didn't
Speaker 2: the mother tell me and involve me in this? And
Speaker 2: then Laurai has made it very clear several times like
Speaker 2: and and I know Luke and Lauray have talked about
Speaker 2: having kids together. But then there are also times where
Speaker 2: she thought she was pregnant, right, and she was, and
Speaker 2: she didn't tell Luke about this, But there's just biased
Speaker 2: from Laura. I'm like, oh, gosh, I don't want a
Speaker 2: baby right now, like oh to bring another person into
Speaker 2: their lives, and I think Luke panics, And so this
Speaker 2: is all listen. I don't want to be too big
Speaker 2: of a I'm biased, but I think therapy helps with
Speaker 2: these types of things. And that leads up, Oh, that
Speaker 2: opens up another avenue of how do you get someone
Speaker 2: like Luke into therapy because it's it's not his jam
Speaker 2: and I and I have to say, as a therapist,
Speaker 2: my absolute favorite Luke moment is when he's listening to
Speaker 2: the tapes and the and the whole time he's just like,
Speaker 2: this is such bull crap, and he's just he thinks
Speaker 2: it's so ridiculous, and that he has a light bulb
Speaker 2: moment that you know, of who do you choose? Who
Speaker 2: do you really want to be with? Who do you
Speaker 2: want to see?
Speaker 1: Who's face do you see?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: Who's face are you thinking of?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 1: That that whole right and.
Speaker 2: Two things happen for Luke. One is on the much
Speaker 2: bigger important level, is that he realizes Laura lies. The
Speaker 2: one but two for me as a therapist is realizing, oh,
Speaker 2: maybe this isn't such you know malarkey after all.
Speaker 3: So let's move on to you know, some of the
Speaker 3: parental relationships in the show. You know, Laurel I not
Speaker 3: having a stable male figure in her life, either growing
Speaker 3: up or in the early part of her adult life.
Speaker 1: Other than Luke, I would say.
Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you think this affects Rory going forward
Speaker 3: and Rory making her choices life partner?
Speaker 2: I think Rory has had a wonderful model in her mother.
Speaker 2: You know, you can say in a lot of traditional
Speaker 2: mom things, Lorlai is not that she's a very different person,
Speaker 2: but in what truly matters, the support and the unconditional
Speaker 2: love and the sense of belonging you know that she
Speaker 2: gives Rory. I think Rory knows that she can do
Speaker 2: it on her own because she's seen her mom do it.
Speaker 2: And so my hope for Rory and I understand there's
Speaker 2: a Gilmore Girls A year in the life again. I
Speaker 2: spent the past couple of weeks catching up on three
Speaker 2: seasons of Gilmore Girls to get up to where we
Speaker 2: are today. So I don't know what happens after this.
Speaker 3: All right, we'll have you back on after you watch
Speaker 3: the Netflix episodes.
Speaker 2: Okay, I would love that. Yeah, I would love that,
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, But I do hope for Rory that, Okay,
Speaker 2: I can do it on my own. So if I
Speaker 2: have somebody, it's because I want this person not because
Speaker 2: I need a man, not because I need a partner.
Speaker 2: It's because I want to share this experience, my life
Speaker 2: and maybe create starting a family or whatever with this
Speaker 2: specific person. And I think Rory has been a lot
Speaker 2: like Laura LII, and that Laura Liai knows that she
Speaker 2: can stand on her own, but she still really wants somebody,
Speaker 2: and sometimes she wants it so painfully that she makes
Speaker 2: not great choices. That's Laurali. That's also Rory right again,
Speaker 2: very passionate people, but you see them across the series
Speaker 2: grow more into Okay, I'm going to bring my my
Speaker 2: judgment up to my passion right that I'm going to
Speaker 2: I'm going to lead with my head and my heart
Speaker 2: when it comes to when it comes to relationships. And
Speaker 2: so that's my assessment of Rory. So we'll see what
Speaker 2: happens if I'm right or not.
Speaker 1: See what happens. What do you think of Season seven?
Speaker 2: So far? So good?
Speaker 1: There's some good episodes.
Speaker 3: There's some actually very very good episodes in season seven
Speaker 3: so far.
Speaker 2: I have gotten into the fan debate, and I know
Speaker 2: there's something for a lot of TV shows and a
Speaker 2: lot of my favorite TV shows there's like a five
Speaker 2: season curse. You have a really solid five seasons and
Speaker 2: then after that it's hit or miss. I think The Office,
Speaker 2: twenty four, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, these all shows that
Speaker 2: I like that that happens with. So here's my take
Speaker 2: on season seven. The writing isn't as sharp and it's
Speaker 2: not as consistent, but there are moments that make up
Speaker 2: for it.
Speaker 3: It's very well said, that's very well set. There's some
Speaker 3: big moments, very well set.
Speaker 2: This moment between Lorli and Emily in this episode we
Speaker 2: just watched, where Laurla is expecting her mom's judgment and
Speaker 2: disdain and just gets acceptance is beautiful, is wonderful. Frankly,
Speaker 2: I feel I don't know if you followed uh The
Speaker 2: Office all the way to the end, but their their
Speaker 2: final season reminds me a lot of Season seven of
Speaker 2: Gilmore Girls, in that, Okay, we're no longer in the prime,
Speaker 2: but we're substitute. We're trading some of the wit and
Speaker 2: some of the consistency for a few standout moments that
Speaker 2: everyone really wants and needs. You know, not not to
Speaker 2: get off the Gilmore Girls too much, but like if
Speaker 2: you go into the Office, Jim and Pam and their
Speaker 2: marriage is on the rocks and they reconcile, or or
Speaker 2: Jim and Dwight becoming friends instead of being enemies. You know.
Speaker 2: There there there are emotional bits of closure that are worthwhile.
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm finding with season seven.
Speaker 3: Interesting Jonathan, It's been a delight. There's so much more
Speaker 3: to unpack. We're gonna let's let's have you back on
Speaker 3: very interesting insights. Yeah, watch the episodes and we'll.
Speaker 1: Chat about it. Okay, I'll come back.
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, Thank you very much. I would love
Speaker 2: to be here. And for your listeners, if you want
Speaker 2: to see me break down Gilmore Girls, it's on mended
Speaker 2: Light YouTube channel and just go in there and search
Speaker 2: Gilmore Girls and you can you can watch just how
Speaker 2: much I gush over Luke as a straight middle aged man.
Speaker 2: It's kind of embarrassing. But here we are so.
Speaker 3: Appreciate your time and your insights, and uh, you know,
Speaker 3: hopefully we'll see you soon.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure, all right, Jonathan. Great meeting and
Speaker 1: great talking to you. Be well.
Speaker 5: Thank you.
Speaker 3: Hey everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at
Speaker 3: I Am all In podcast and email us at Gilmore
Speaker 3: at iHeartRadio dot com