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Speaker 1: I am all in.

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Speaker 2: That's just you. I Am all in with Scott Patterson

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Speaker 2: an iHeartRadio podcast.

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Speaker 3: Everybody Scott Patterson, I Am all In Podcast one eleven productions, iHeartRadio, iHeartMedia,

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Speaker 3: iHeart Podcast. One on one interview with Jonathan Decker, who

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Speaker 3: is an LMFT. He is a licensed marriage and Family

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Speaker 3: therapist and the CEO of Cinema Therapy and clinical director

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Speaker 3: of Mended Light. He is a movie buff who has

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Speaker 3: started a YouTube channel of therapizing if that's a word,

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Speaker 3: a TV and film. He's got some links to Laurele

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Speaker 3: I and Emily Scenes, Luke and Laurel I Scene, all

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Speaker 3: kinds of things.

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Speaker 1: iHeart podcasts. Listen on the iHeartRadio app.

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Speaker 3: Tell us a little bit about how you ended up

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Speaker 3: analyzing films and TV shows and characters they're in.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, thank you for having me. I am a

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Speaker 2: forty three year old late bloomer for Gilmore Girls. I

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Speaker 2: missed it by a couple of decades and now I'm

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Speaker 2: just adoring it and can't get enough of it. But

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Speaker 2: I've gotten to psychology. I wanted to be a filmmaker

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Speaker 2: or director or a therapist, and when I was in

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Speaker 2: school that's I was leaning one way or the other.

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Speaker 2: Finally some work with some Matris teenagers, kind of like Jess.

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Speaker 2: It steered me in the direction of psychology and therapy.

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Speaker 2: But my passion for film never left me. And you know,

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Speaker 2: I'd love to use movies and TV shows to illustrate

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Speaker 2: abstract concepts about when you're talking about. Because I became

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Speaker 2: a family therapist, healthy relationships, unhealthy relationships, What do these

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Speaker 2: principles look like? Applied? And I found that film and

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Speaker 2: TV was perfect in classes and in therapy for illustrating

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Speaker 2: what I was talking about.

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Speaker 1: So why did you choose Gilmore Girls?

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Speaker 2: I chose Gilmore Girls. That was actually our fans. So

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Speaker 2: I've got the two channels Cinema Therapy and then Mended

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Speaker 2: Light and Men Died Light. We do more television breakdowns,

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Speaker 2: and the fans on Mended Light. I was asking, you know,

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Speaker 2: what should I do next? I covered a couple of things,

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Speaker 2: Buffy the Vampire Schleayer, Euphoria, a couple of things, and

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Speaker 2: overwhelmingly the demand was for Gilmore Girls, far more than

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Speaker 2: any show that's airing now, I have to say, And

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Speaker 2: I was in my twenties when Gilmore Girls came out.

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Speaker 2: I was not especially interested at the time. I was

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Speaker 2: super into twenty four and Lost in the Office and

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Speaker 2: things like that. And what's funny to me now that

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Speaker 2: I'm watching Gilmore Girls is Luke is a character who

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Speaker 2: would likely not watch a show called Gilmore Girls.

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Speaker 1: That's for sure.

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Speaker 2: So I see it, but I see him. If I

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Speaker 2: had watched it, then I really I would have realized, Oh,

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Speaker 2: Luke is, in addition to being a wonderful character in

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Speaker 2: his own right, strategically, he's the surrogate for the boyfriends

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Speaker 2: and the husbands who might not take interest to are

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Speaker 2: forced to watch this show with their girlfriends or their wives.

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Speaker 2: And then and then they attached to Luke. You know

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Speaker 2: that that Luke kind of keeps everything real, keeps everything dry,

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Speaker 2: brings it down to earth.

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Speaker 4: Uh.

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Speaker 2: But and so I started doing reaction videos to talk

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Speaker 2: about the relationships on Gilmore Girls, and they are far

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Speaker 2: and away our most popular videos on the channel. People

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Speaker 2: just can't get enough of them, which staying power because

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Speaker 2: you know, it's been a minute since you've been on

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Speaker 2: the air, and people just revisit it and love it

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Speaker 2: and share it with their their own daughters. And strangely

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Speaker 2: I'm drawn into it.

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Speaker 1: Let's get into the therapy of it.

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Speaker 2: Then.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so we think laurla I moved too fast into

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Speaker 3: a relationship with Christopher. What do you think was her

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Speaker 3: thought processing that was trying to use him to heal

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Speaker 3: from Luke.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I listen. Having so a little bit of

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Speaker 2: a quick background, I was part way through the fourth

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Speaker 2: season when I got contacted about this podcast, and I

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Speaker 2: have crammed for the Final Life so in the past

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Speaker 2: week and a half binging gil Girls from season four,

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Speaker 2: season seven, and so it's all very fresh for me.

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Speaker 2: And I do think Loralai has always used Christopher as

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Speaker 2: the It was the plan that she had in mind

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Speaker 2: if he ever grew up right, if he ever got

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Speaker 2: his act together. And I absolutely think she realized that

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Speaker 2: Luke is her soulmate. I think she realized that Luke

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Speaker 2: is better to her than anyone's ever been to her,

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Speaker 2: and that wound is so fresh and so deep that

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Speaker 2: she's going to go to what she's comfortable with, even

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Speaker 2: though she knows it's wrong, right wrong for her. She's

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Speaker 2: been down that road with Christopher several times, and the

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Speaker 2: biggest determinant of that is not because Christopher has grown

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Speaker 2: up in a lot of ways, but is where her

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Speaker 2: heart lies. And her heart absolutely lies with Luke. There's

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Speaker 2: no ifs ans or butts about that. I was team

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Speaker 2: Luke from the first episode. By the way, I'm not

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Speaker 2: even brown nosing. I'm just saying, before I even knew

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Speaker 2: that you had a podcast or that you and I

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Speaker 2: were going to be interacting in all my videos, I

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Speaker 2: just kept saying, if she doesn't lose, if she doesn't

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Speaker 2: choose Luke by the end, I'm gonna riot.

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Speaker 1: And riot we will.

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Speaker 3: So the obvious advice would be for Laura I to

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Speaker 3: give herself more time between dumping Luke and getting involved

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Speaker 3: with Christopher again.

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Speaker 1: But do you think that part of her wanted to.

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Speaker 3: At least try to see if it could work out

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Speaker 3: to complete her own family dynamic.

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Speaker 2: She didn't want to live with it. What if. I

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Speaker 2: don't know that she needed to take it all the

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Speaker 2: way to marriage, but to always whether she ended up

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Speaker 2: with Luke or not, should I close the door on

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Speaker 2: Christopher permanently or could it work out this time? And

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Speaker 2: I think she needed to explore that space in order

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Speaker 2: to have to have closure, and for all she knew

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Speaker 2: it was going to work out this time. Right, and

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Speaker 2: she entered into it perhaps headstrong and perhaps on the

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Speaker 2: rebound and perhaps hurting, but I think she entered into

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Speaker 2: it with good faith of want I want to have

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Speaker 2: this family dynamic that I've always wanted to have. And

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Speaker 2: what I love about the previous episode to the one

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Speaker 2: we're talking about today, or at least I guess the

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Speaker 2: past couple episodes, when she writes that letter for Luke,

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Speaker 2: it's because she realizes that Luke has been more of

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Speaker 2: a father to Rory than Christopher ever was, and he's

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Speaker 2: in that sense been more of a partner to me

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Speaker 2: and in a lot of other senses as well.

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Speaker 3: M all right, so you know that Christopher really pushed

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Speaker 3: her to marry him in Paris? Yeah, what would have

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Speaker 3: been a different option to handle the forceful way Christopher

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Speaker 3: was asking Laurel I to marry him.

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Speaker 1: What should Laurel I maybe have done?

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Speaker 2: I think if there is one of one of loural

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Speaker 2: Live's weaknesses and one of her beautiful characteristics, honestly, is

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Speaker 2: that she can be spontaneous and what she's feeling is

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Speaker 2: what she runs with, and sometimes she regrets that and

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Speaker 2: sometimes following her gut leads her down the path. Christopher

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Speaker 2: pressured her, and she yielded, And I think she yielded,

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Speaker 2: as you were saying, for all for other reasons you're

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Speaker 2: talking about. I think she wanted to test this family dynamic,

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Speaker 2: see that could finally work. I think the fact that

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Speaker 2: if you have ever loved somebody and there's still goodwill

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Speaker 2: between you, then that love is always there. It may

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Speaker 2: change form, it may no longer be romantic, it may

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Speaker 2: no longer be sexual, but the people that matter to

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Speaker 2: us will always matter to us. And so it gets

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Speaker 2: kind of hazy. So what could she have done? She

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Speaker 2: could have asked for time. She could have said, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're in Paris and I'm heartbroken and I don't want

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Speaker 2: to end up alone, and so I don't know if

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Speaker 2: I want to say yes to you, Christopher. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if that's Paris and my loneliness talking, or if

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Speaker 2: that's because this is right and I've been through enough

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Speaker 2: that I really want to make sure it's on stable footing.

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Speaker 2: So I'm not saying no. I'm saying, let me let

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Speaker 2: me think about it, and let me let me examine

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Speaker 2: my heart and see what it is that I want

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Speaker 2: to do.

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Speaker 3: What do you think of Christopher's he is he just

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Speaker 3: selfish or is he a narcissist?

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Speaker 1: Because it always seems to come back. I mean even

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Speaker 1: when he's you know, it's always about him.

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Speaker 3: He always makes it about him, and he has inconvenience

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Speaker 3: and he was busy and I'm sorry I couldn't. You know,

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Speaker 3: he didn't show up at the hospital in season seven

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Speaker 3: for Richard because he was a little in a snit

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Speaker 3: over Luke.

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Speaker 2: I would say more selfish than narcissism. I mean, you

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Speaker 2: can say there's narcissistic traits there. The key thing about

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Speaker 2: you know, narcissistic personality disorder that separates it from ego

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Speaker 2: or self absorption is a lack of passion, is a

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Speaker 2: lack of empathy. And Christopher feels genuine remorse when he

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Speaker 2: hurts people. The issue with him is that he's so

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Speaker 2: consistently he's the yin to you to Luke's yang, because

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Speaker 2: Christopher so consistently puts himself first, and then he feels

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Speaker 2: bad for hurting others for when he does that and

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Speaker 2: Luke does the opposite. He consistently puts other people first,

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Speaker 2: and then what's left for him, you know, And I

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Speaker 2: think that's one of the reasons why Luke is so

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Speaker 2: often unhappy and grumpy is because he gives so much

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Speaker 2: because he doesn't know how to not give. And I

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Speaker 2: love watching some of you know, Luke's journey to kind

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Speaker 2: of a healthier self interest, right to finding that balance

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Speaker 2: because the thing that I love about Luke all the

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Speaker 2: way back to one of my favorite moments very early on,

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Speaker 2: is he hates and mocks the whole we're going to

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Speaker 2: go stand out in the snow and do the Revolutionary

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Speaker 2: War reenactment, but he still brings the guy's coffee, right,

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Speaker 2: and then when they ask for when they say can

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Speaker 2: we get hot chocolate or apple cider instead? Instead of

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Speaker 2: saying are you kidding me? He just goes and they

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Speaker 2: starts taking people's words, Like Luke is always gonna do

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Speaker 2: the selfless thing, and I think Christopher is the opposite

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Speaker 2: of that.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's move on to the breakup. Do you think

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Speaker 3: that Christopher could have changed his jealous ways when it

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Speaker 3: came to Luke and because he displayed this kind of

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Speaker 3: immaturity and jealousy. First of all, do you think that

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Speaker 3: jealousy was justified? Do you think her behavior was in

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Speaker 3: any way antagonistic or disrespectful toward Christopher.

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Speaker 2: Ah, if it was, it certainly wasn't deliberate, right. I

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Speaker 2: think Loralai was coming from a place of sincerity. And

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Speaker 2: the thing about Christopher is, we're watching someone across the series,

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Speaker 2: and when all the characters are like this, we're watching

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Speaker 2: a growth arc, right, We're watching people grow into maturity.

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Speaker 2: And Christopher has come a long way since we first

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Speaker 2: met him, but in other ways he hasn't, And especially

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Speaker 2: when his insecurity is he I think wants to be

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Speaker 2: He wants to be desired and he wants to be loved,

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Speaker 2: and that's fine, that's a human need. But the issue

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Speaker 2: is if somebody else is desired and loved instead of me,

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Speaker 2: is that a deficiency on my part instead of just

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Speaker 2: simply this is who the other person chooses, you know.

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Speaker 2: And in defense of Christopher, they are. They are married

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Speaker 2: and so he's not entitled. But I do understand that

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Speaker 2: that would be a painful thing to recognize and realize.

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Speaker 2: But the mature, the mature way to handle it is

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Speaker 2: always if it's if it's truly love, I want you

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Speaker 2: to be with me, but more than that, I want

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Speaker 2: you to be happy. And if you're not going to

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Speaker 2: be happy with me. If you're going to be happier

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Speaker 2: with Luke, if you're going to be happier on your own,

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Speaker 2: then I want that for you. And what I see

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Speaker 2: with Christopher a lot is is not necessarily actual love

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Speaker 2: for Lorli. The attraction is there, attack is there, even

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Speaker 2: affection is there like and it's all genuine and sincere.

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Speaker 2: But in order for it to be love, it has

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Speaker 2: to be what do you what do you need for

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Speaker 2: your happiness? And I want that for you?

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Speaker 1: And he just wasn't willing. Well. He eventually did come

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Speaker 1: around to that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know he was. He was afraid of

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Speaker 3: losing hers. He was really just hanging on for dear life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think, And I think that's a very compassionate

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Speaker 2: way to look at him. And the fact is we

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Speaker 2: we tend to be very judgmental of people and their

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Speaker 2: behaviors and just in general. And if you look at

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Speaker 2: any Gilmore Girls fan forums, I mean there's people of

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Speaker 2: all sorts of opinions and get fired up because they

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Speaker 2: care so much. But the fact is, most of our

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Speaker 2: most harmful behaviors, most of the things that we do

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Speaker 2: that cause the most pain, come from a place of

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Speaker 2: our own pain come from we want to Everyone wants

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Speaker 2: to feel safe, respected and loved, and our worst behaviors

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Speaker 2: are either efforts to be safe, respected and loved or

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Speaker 2: reactions to not feeling safe, respected and loved. And so

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Speaker 2: I don't fault Christopher. I just feel like it's a

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Speaker 2: shame he lacks the maturity because if he could show

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Speaker 2: up with maturity, with selflessness, with integrity, and with accountability,

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Speaker 2: he could have ended up with Laura Lai. There are

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Speaker 2: several times while watching the show, I'm like, oh, I mean,

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Speaker 2: I'm team Luke, but I can I wouldn't hate it

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Speaker 2: if she ended up with Christopher. I thought that several

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Speaker 2: times during the show. But every time he did something,

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Speaker 2: you know, out of his own self interest first and

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Speaker 2: foremost before his daughter and the mother of his daughter,

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Speaker 2: I fell back on your side, brom.

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Speaker 3: So, all right, so this, you know, it all ended

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Speaker 3: between Laura and Christopher, with her saying you're the man

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Speaker 3: I want to want. Why do you think it took

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Speaker 3: her so long to get there? Let's go to the

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Speaker 3: end of the relationship.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 3: So with Laura I and Christopher mutually agreeing that they

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Speaker 3: should go their separate ways, she says, you're the man

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Speaker 3: I want to want.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think it took her this long to

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Speaker 1: get there?

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Speaker 2: I think the Gilmours are a passionate family. I look

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Speaker 2: at Richard and Emily and for all their pretenses of

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Speaker 2: high society and doing things the proper way, you look

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Speaker 2: at any time they feel offended or slided, and it's

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Speaker 2: all passion. And it's a similar thing with Rory and

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Speaker 2: with Laura. I it's hard to follow your head when

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Speaker 2: you're just guided by your heart. And that's the thing

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Speaker 2: about these these passionate characters, is Lorelai why did it

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Speaker 2: take her so long to say this to Christopher to

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Speaker 2: get there? Because of Max Medina, because of Luke, because

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Speaker 2: of the things that she wants out of her life,

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Speaker 2: because the times that she's felt hurt and had to

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Speaker 2: protect herself, you know, from from a million things where

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Speaker 2: it's hard to know what you actually want when you're

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Speaker 2: focused on the feeling of the moment.

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Speaker 1: Boy, is that that is the truest statement?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, people really get lost in the moment, don't they,

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Speaker 3: And they just forget about the macro they do.

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Speaker 2: And that's and that's one thing I always liked about

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Speaker 2: Luke you know, and I don't want to be a

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Speaker 2: such a Luke stand here that I can't admit his faults.

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Speaker 2: But is Luke from the opening episode, Luke knows exactly

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Speaker 2: who is. He loves his diner, you know, he tolerates

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Speaker 2: the people in the town and secretly adores them and

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Speaker 2: would do anything for them, but he's not going to

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Speaker 2: let them know that, you know. And he craves a

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Speaker 2: simple life and deeply he craves he craves connection. But

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Speaker 2: you know, when when Richard's trying to get Luke to

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Speaker 2: franchise uh and and Emily's basically telling Luke you're not

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Speaker 2: good enough, it, it shakes him in it for a moment.

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Speaker 2: But what Luke always comes back to is I know

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Speaker 2: what I want. And I think Luke is the opposite

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Speaker 2: of Loraai because Luke sometimes is too much in his head.

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Speaker 2: I think he's too much what's here's the here's the choice,

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Speaker 2: here's what I'm doing, here's my life. And you know,

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Speaker 2: especially in seasons five and you see kind of lore

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Speaker 2: Lie opening up more of that that heart side of

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Speaker 2: Luke that he's kept buried. And that's why I think

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Speaker 2: they're a good balance for each other because Luke is

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Speaker 2: a stabilizing influence for Law overall, and Lorelai helps Luke

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Speaker 2: to come out and to feel and to be presentent

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Speaker 2: and not be detached and distant.

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Speaker 3: Right, right, let's do a sidebar, yeah, because because I

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Speaker 3: want to talk about a little bit about and then

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Speaker 3: we'll get back on the Luke Laurelei Christopher dynamic. But

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Speaker 3: since since it's so prevalent in season seven, but tell

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Speaker 3: me about your thoughts on because the thing I always

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Speaker 3: wondered and what I found fascinating about Laurel's character is

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Speaker 3: how quippy she is and how clever she is, and

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Speaker 3: how fast and funny she is, and how the humor

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Speaker 3: is constant.

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Speaker 1: And people often.

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Speaker 3: Do that because they are uncomfortable in a situation and

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Speaker 3: they know intimacy or they can't be intimate in that

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Speaker 3: situation with loved ones or friends or whatever.

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Speaker 1: So it's just like joke after joke after show.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a it's a defense makes it's a protective mask.

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Speaker 2: This is something in our in our mended light reactions

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Speaker 2: to Gilmore Girls that I've said is simultaneously endearing to

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Speaker 2: Lauraai about about Loralai to me and drives me crazy.

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Speaker 2: Is anytime there is an apology to be made, she

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Speaker 2: leads with a very awkward icebreaker and further alienates the

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Speaker 2: people that she's hurt. He sees then and then I

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Speaker 2: remember there's a different episode where Rory does the same thing,

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Speaker 2: and I said, yep, they are family. But that's just

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Speaker 2: but that's just good writing. You know that that type

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Speaker 2: of consistency, and it absolutely is this this fear of vulnerability,

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Speaker 2: and I think she comes by that honestly. You know,

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Speaker 2: vulnerability was punished in her family growing up. Declaring what

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Speaker 2: you want, declaring your hurt was met with defensiveness and

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Speaker 2: blame shifting and and Laurie, Laura, I was never allowed

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Speaker 2: to just be real. And so this is how she

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Speaker 2: learned to cope. And you see this with her parents

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Speaker 2: all the time. Loralai is always throwing jokes towards her

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Speaker 2: parents that her parents don't think is funny, but Laura

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Speaker 2: doesn't care. They're not for them, for her, They're gonna

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Speaker 2: help her. They're gonna help her to feel more comfortable.

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Speaker 2: Like she's having a little one woman show and she's

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Speaker 2: both the performer and the audience, you.

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Speaker 4: Know, exactly exactly, Yeah, but you also see, speaking of

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Speaker 4: character growth, when she's truly comfortable with a person, she

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Speaker 4: doesn't feel the need to do that.

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Speaker 2: There are times with Rory that she doesn't lead with jokes.

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Speaker 2: There are times with Luke that she doesn't lead with jokes.

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Speaker 2: There are times you know in this episode that I

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Speaker 2: that we just watched a season seven episode fifteen, she

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Speaker 2: has a beautiful conversation with her mother where she tells

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Speaker 2: her mother that she and Christopher broke up and I

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Speaker 2: wrote it down. I thought it was so f she says,

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Speaker 2: we split up. I don't know, and then Emily says,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what to say, and Laurai says, really,

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Speaker 2: that's great.

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Speaker 1: And that's great. You don't ever have to say anything.

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Speaker 1: We don't have to talk about it, right, it's good.

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Speaker 2: We're we're all good. Yeah. But Emily for the first

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Speaker 2: time shows just not maybe not for the first time,

361
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Speaker 2: but we're seeing late in the in the series, Emily

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Speaker 2: more and more just being real and valuing emotion over

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Speaker 2: over prestige or status or stat or or the norms

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Speaker 2: right that she's supposed to fulfill. And when Lauraai feels

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Speaker 2: comfortable with her mom, she jokes less m and then

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Speaker 2: when LAURAAI jokes, it's not to protect herself, it's just

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Speaker 2: because she's still She's still her, she still likes to

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Speaker 2: amuse herself, right, but it's no longer a mask.

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Speaker 5: Uh.

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Speaker 2: And that's the difference, right.

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Speaker 3: Would you say that with Laura l I there's a

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Speaker 3: reservoir of anger toward Emily and even toward Richard because

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Speaker 3: of the experience of being pregnant sixteen pretty much being

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Speaker 3: banished for not yeah, you know, telling the Gilmore line

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Speaker 3: as it were.

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Speaker 1: Do you do you find that to be the case?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean, and we see that all throughout the series,

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Speaker 2: that there are steps towards healing. But I like to

379
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Speaker 2: tell people we have the wrong idea about forgiveness. We

380
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Speaker 2: think forgiveness is a I forgive you and then it's done.

381
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Speaker 2: It's like it never happened. But forgiveness to me is

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Speaker 2: like exercise. You have to you have to do it

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Speaker 2: consistently to see the benefits, and this family takes It's hard.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to forgive because there's so little accountability. But

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Speaker 2: whenever it does happen and steps are made, the pain resurfaces. Right,

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Speaker 2: Those wounds don't just go away. So it's not like

387
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Speaker 2: you forgive somebody and then the wounds are gone. I

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Speaker 2: forgive every time the pain comes up. I forgive every

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Speaker 2: time the offense happens, because that's how I have to

390
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Speaker 2: deal with it. And so what we see across the

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Speaker 2: entire series is a family healing baby steps, just these

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Speaker 2: tiny little micro steps at a time.

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Speaker 3: So it's your defining forgiveness as something that is to

394
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Speaker 3: make a commitment too, because it's going to that forgiveness.

395
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Speaker 3: Is that same forgiveness of that same issue is going

396
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Speaker 3: to rise up time and time and time again throughout

397
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Speaker 3: your life with that individual.

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Speaker 2: Yes, And I want to make a caveat because forgiveness,

399
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Speaker 2: forgiveness and trust are not the same thing. I think

400
00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 2: trust has to be earned, and in order for us

401
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:41,640
Speaker 2: to have close relationships, there has to be trust, which

402
00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:45,200
Speaker 2: is why several times throughout the series you see Loralai

403
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 2: withdrawing from her parents because there's no trust there, there's

404
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,960
Speaker 2: no safety there. It doesn't mean she hates them, it

405
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,159
Speaker 2: doesn't mean she doesn't love them. It just means she

406
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:58,679
Speaker 2: doesn't feel safe with them. Forgiveness is I'm releasing bitterness

407
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:00,920
Speaker 2: and anger so that I don't carry it with me.

408
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:02,520
Speaker 1: Right, So it's for you.

409
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:05,320
Speaker 3: It's almost a selfish thing, or it's a healing thing,

410
00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,040
Speaker 3: a personal healing thing.

411
00:23:07,520 --> 00:23:10,399
Speaker 2: It's a self healing thing, and we extend compassion to

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Speaker 2: the person who gives offense by understanding where they come from.

413
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Speaker 2: If Loralai were in therapy with me throughout the series,

414
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Speaker 2: I'd be like, look, we can't control what your parents do.

415
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:23,600
Speaker 2: We can try to influence, we can try and help

416
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 2: them have light bulb moments to see things differently, but

417
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,639
Speaker 2: they've shown their incredibly rigid so we can't control what

418
00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:31,960
Speaker 2: they do. We can control what you do, and every

419
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:34,080
Speaker 2: time they hurt you when you choose to let go,

420
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Speaker 2: not to condone and not to say it's okay, but

421
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:42,119
Speaker 2: to say, Emily's gonna and Emily's gonna Emily and Richard's gonna. Richard, Right,

422
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:45,760
Speaker 2: They're gonna do what they do. So how close do

423
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Speaker 2: I want to be with them depends on how much

424
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Speaker 2: I trust them. Not a lot Friday night dinners, Right,

425
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Speaker 2: that's what we got. We're not much in each other's

426
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:57,879
Speaker 2: lives other than that because there's no trust there. But

427
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:02,639
Speaker 2: Loralai could be happier unless bothered by what Emily and

428
00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:07,200
Speaker 2: Richard do by practicing forgiveness. Again, it's not because they

429
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 2: deserve it. It's because this is how I keep my

430
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,919
Speaker 2: side of the street clean. It's how I heal and

431
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,560
Speaker 2: when we have interactions, it's how I keep things from

432
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Speaker 2: going bad on my end, right, I help de escalate

433
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Speaker 2: the situation.

434
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Speaker 3: Interesting, forgiveness is a powerful thing. It is, yeah, a powerful,

435
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:26,520
Speaker 3: powerful thing.

436
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: What do you think about the way.

437
00:24:38,359 --> 00:24:42,639
Speaker 3: Luke and Laurel I communicate because it seems like it

438
00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:48,880
Speaker 3: seems like, you know, we discussed in a nauseum about

439
00:24:49,280 --> 00:24:56,159
Speaker 3: the April coming and seeing him wanting to spend time

440
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:58,719
Speaker 3: with her away from Laurel I, and he kind of

441
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:00,919
Speaker 3: shut Laurel I e out of that whole experience.

442
00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,920
Speaker 1: What do you think about that whole arc?

443
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 2: So as candidly, there's two parts of me. There's a

444
00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 2: part of me that is frustrated because it feels like, well,

445
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:18,000
Speaker 2: we don't have a finish line for the series, so

446
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:21,840
Speaker 2: we're creating some new drama when after all these seasons,

447
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 2: I like a lot of people just want to see

448
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:27,080
Speaker 2: Luke and Loralei together and more or less happy, right,

449
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,080
Speaker 2: But at the same time, I don't think it's untrue

450
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,840
Speaker 2: to Luke. Luke and Lorali both strike me as people

451
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,879
Speaker 2: who've experienced what I call micro traumas right. We often

452
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:42,199
Speaker 2: in the psychological world we think of trauma. We think

453
00:25:42,240 --> 00:25:46,120
Speaker 2: of near death experiences, right or abuse or some heinous

454
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,639
Speaker 2: acts of violence, or near or almost dying. But the

455
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: fact is, like the little things can pile up and

456
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:57,080
Speaker 2: have the same response in our in our brains right

457
00:25:57,080 --> 00:25:59,720
Speaker 2: where where we feel triggered, and then we want to

458
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:02,280
Speaker 2: with wrong, and we take actions to protect ourselves, and

459
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:05,119
Speaker 2: we lie instinctively because we don't want to be hurt again,

460
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:06,919
Speaker 2: or because we don't want to hurt a person that

461
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 2: we care about. Was I frustrated that Luke didn't tell

462
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 2: Laura Liaie for such an extended period of time. Yes,

463
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:17,719
Speaker 2: I think everybody was. I'm you you probably were. But

464
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:20,720
Speaker 2: at the same time, I don't think it's it's untrue

465
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 2: to somebody like Luke who has had his heart broken

466
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,000
Speaker 2: a bunch of times, someone like Luke who has lost

467
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,480
Speaker 2: his lost his father, has had a rocky relationship with

468
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:37,239
Speaker 2: his sister, who took Jess in and completely gave his

469
00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:40,280
Speaker 2: heart and soul to Jess. I mean the fact that

470
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 2: he was you know, a bit of a bit of

471
00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 2: a punk about it the whole time is just Luke,

472
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,520
Speaker 2: but but he was, he was one hundred percent there

473
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,960
Speaker 2: for Jess. And how many times this man feels like

474
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,480
Speaker 2: I've done something where I screwed it up, because that's

475
00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:00,840
Speaker 2: that's part of Luke's selflessness is he also takes responsibility

476
00:27:00,840 --> 00:27:04,120
Speaker 2: for the happiness of other people, right, And so Luke

477
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:07,960
Speaker 2: having a daughter that he didn't know about, he now

478
00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,040
Speaker 2: feels like I missed all these years where I could

479
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:12,440
Speaker 2: have been a dad, where I could have been there

480
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:15,120
Speaker 2: for her. I imagine there's a little bit of looking

481
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 2: in the mirror, feeling like a failure of why didn't

482
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: the mother tell me and involve me in this? And

483
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 2: then Laurai has made it very clear several times like

484
00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: and and I know Luke and Lauray have talked about

485
00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,560
Speaker 2: having kids together. But then there are also times where

486
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:30,879
Speaker 2: she thought she was pregnant, right, and she was, and

487
00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:32,919
Speaker 2: she didn't tell Luke about this, But there's just biased

488
00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:34,399
Speaker 2: from Laura. I'm like, oh, gosh, I don't want a

489
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,480
Speaker 2: baby right now, like oh to bring another person into

490
00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,600
Speaker 2: their lives, and I think Luke panics, And so this

491
00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 2: is all listen. I don't want to be too big

492
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 2: of a I'm biased, but I think therapy helps with

493
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 2: these types of things. And that leads up, Oh, that

494
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: opens up another avenue of how do you get someone

495
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:59,199
Speaker 2: like Luke into therapy because it's it's not his jam

496
00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,639
Speaker 2: and I and I have to say, as a therapist,

497
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 2: my absolute favorite Luke moment is when he's listening to

498
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:09,439
Speaker 2: the tapes and the and the whole time he's just like,

499
00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 2: this is such bull crap, and he's just he thinks

500
00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: it's so ridiculous, and that he has a light bulb

501
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 2: moment that you know, of who do you choose? Who

502
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 2: do you really want to be with? Who do you

503
00:28:19,760 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 2: want to see?

504
00:28:20,359 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 1: Who's face do you see?

505
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:22,320
Speaker 2: Right?

506
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:22,600
Speaker 5: Right?

507
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:25,000
Speaker 2: Who's face are you thinking of?

508
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:25,360
Speaker 5: Right?

509
00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 1: That that whole right and.

510
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 2: Two things happen for Luke. One is on the much

511
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,560
Speaker 2: bigger important level, is that he realizes Laura lies. The

512
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:39,200
Speaker 2: one but two for me as a therapist is realizing, oh,

513
00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 2: maybe this isn't such you know malarkey after all.

514
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 3: So let's move on to you know, some of the

515
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:55,240
Speaker 3: parental relationships in the show. You know, Laurel I not

516
00:28:55,400 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 3: having a stable male figure in her life, either growing

517
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 3: up or in the early part of her adult life.

518
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:06,840
Speaker 1: Other than Luke, I would say.

519
00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, how do you think this affects Rory going forward

520
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 3: and Rory making her choices life partner?

521
00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 2: I think Rory has had a wonderful model in her mother.

522
00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:28,400
Speaker 2: You know, you can say in a lot of traditional

523
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: mom things, Lorlai is not that she's a very different person,

524
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:38,320
Speaker 2: but in what truly matters, the support and the unconditional

525
00:29:38,360 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: love and the sense of belonging you know that she

526
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:47,000
Speaker 2: gives Rory. I think Rory knows that she can do

527
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 2: it on her own because she's seen her mom do it.

528
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 2: And so my hope for Rory and I understand there's

529
00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 2: a Gilmore Girls A year in the life again. I

530
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 2: spent the past couple of weeks catching up on three

531
00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:02,560
Speaker 2: seasons of Gilmore Girls to get up to where we

532
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:05,240
Speaker 2: are today. So I don't know what happens after this.

533
00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 3: All right, we'll have you back on after you watch

534
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 3: the Netflix episodes.

535
00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 2: Okay, I would love that. Yeah, I would love that,

536
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:17,240
Speaker 2: Thank you. Yeah, But I do hope for Rory that, Okay,

537
00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 2: I can do it on my own. So if I

538
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,560
Speaker 2: have somebody, it's because I want this person not because

539
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,000
Speaker 2: I need a man, not because I need a partner.

540
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,680
Speaker 2: It's because I want to share this experience, my life

541
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: and maybe create starting a family or whatever with this

542
00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:35,320
Speaker 2: specific person. And I think Rory has been a lot

543
00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: like Laura LII, and that Laura Liai knows that she

544
00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 2: can stand on her own, but she still really wants somebody,

545
00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 2: and sometimes she wants it so painfully that she makes

546
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:53,080
Speaker 2: not great choices. That's Laurali. That's also Rory right again,

547
00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: very passionate people, but you see them across the series

548
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,480
Speaker 2: grow more into Okay, I'm going to bring my my

549
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 2: judgment up to my passion right that I'm going to

550
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:05,640
Speaker 2: I'm going to lead with my head and my heart

551
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,240
Speaker 2: when it comes to when it comes to relationships. And

552
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,280
Speaker 2: so that's my assessment of Rory. So we'll see what

553
00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:12,640
Speaker 2: happens if I'm right or not.

554
00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 1: See what happens. What do you think of Season seven?

555
00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 2: So far? So good?

556
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:18,160
Speaker 1: There's some good episodes.

557
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:21,080
Speaker 3: There's some actually very very good episodes in season seven

558
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:21,560
Speaker 3: so far.

559
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 2: I have gotten into the fan debate, and I know

560
00:31:25,960 --> 00:31:28,520
Speaker 2: there's something for a lot of TV shows and a

561
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:30,320
Speaker 2: lot of my favorite TV shows there's like a five

562
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,360
Speaker 2: season curse. You have a really solid five seasons and

563
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,160
Speaker 2: then after that it's hit or miss. I think The Office,

564
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,640
Speaker 2: twenty four, Buffy the Vampire Slayer, these all shows that

565
00:31:39,680 --> 00:31:42,960
Speaker 2: I like that that happens with. So here's my take

566
00:31:43,000 --> 00:31:46,720
Speaker 2: on season seven. The writing isn't as sharp and it's

567
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 2: not as consistent, but there are moments that make up

568
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 2: for it.

569
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,360
Speaker 3: It's very well said, that's very well set. There's some

570
00:31:54,400 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 3: big moments, very well set.

571
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:59,000
Speaker 2: This moment between Lorli and Emily in this episode we

572
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: just watched, where Laurla is expecting her mom's judgment and

573
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:09,960
Speaker 2: disdain and just gets acceptance is beautiful, is wonderful. Frankly,

574
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:12,479
Speaker 2: I feel I don't know if you followed uh The

575
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 2: Office all the way to the end, but their their

576
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: final season reminds me a lot of Season seven of

577
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 2: Gilmore Girls, in that, Okay, we're no longer in the prime,

578
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,719
Speaker 2: but we're substitute. We're trading some of the wit and

579
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 2: some of the consistency for a few standout moments that

580
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 2: everyone really wants and needs. You know, not not to

581
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:35,320
Speaker 2: get off the Gilmore Girls too much, but like if

582
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:37,280
Speaker 2: you go into the Office, Jim and Pam and their

583
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:40,240
Speaker 2: marriage is on the rocks and they reconcile, or or

584
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 2: Jim and Dwight becoming friends instead of being enemies. You know.

585
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:48,719
Speaker 2: There there there are emotional bits of closure that are worthwhile.

586
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,560
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm finding with season seven.

587
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 3: Interesting Jonathan, It's been a delight. There's so much more

588
00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,320
Speaker 3: to unpack. We're gonna let's let's have you back on

589
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: very interesting insights. Yeah, watch the episodes and we'll.

590
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:07,840
Speaker 1: Chat about it. Okay, I'll come back.

591
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 2: Yes, thank you, Thank you very much. I would love

592
00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:11,800
Speaker 2: to be here. And for your listeners, if you want

593
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 2: to see me break down Gilmore Girls, it's on mended

594
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,160
Speaker 2: Light YouTube channel and just go in there and search

595
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,880
Speaker 2: Gilmore Girls and you can you can watch just how

596
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: much I gush over Luke as a straight middle aged man.

597
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:26,720
Speaker 2: It's kind of embarrassing. But here we are so.

598
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 3: Appreciate your time and your insights, and uh, you know,

599
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 3: hopefully we'll see you soon.

600
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 2: Thank you.

601
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: It's been a pleasure, all right, Jonathan. Great meeting and

602
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:38,720
Speaker 1: great talking to you. Be well.

603
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:56,960
Speaker 5: Thank you.

604
00:34:08,120 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 3: Hey everybody, and don't forget follow us on Instagram at

605
00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:15,600
Speaker 3: I Am all In podcast and email us at Gilmore

606
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 3: at iHeartRadio dot com