WEBVTT - Building Decentralized Tech with Decentralized Teams 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.680 So the big question is this, how do investors like 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.800 us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly, 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.840 the right people that give us the tools and information 0:00:15.000 --> 0:00:19.000 we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success. 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.360 That is the question, and this podcast will give us 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:25.520 the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:27.920 this started. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the 0:00:27.960 --> 0:00:31.160 Market Disruptors podcast. Today I am joined by v Jennie. 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:33.560 He is the CEO and co founder of zeri on, 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:36.880 which is making big moves in the defive space. We 0:00:36.960 --> 0:00:40.960 get into a really good conversation talking about his background 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:45.400 in the cryptocurrency space, building tokens, building token platforms, how 0:00:45.479 --> 0:00:48.000 he found out about the DeFi space, and why he 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:50.960 thinks it's probably the biggest thing happening right now in 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:53.159 the crypto space, and what they're doing about it. Um, 0:00:53.159 --> 0:00:55.600 it's a great conversation. I really enjoyed. Let's go ahead 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.040 just jump right into it. Great. So, um, why don't 0:00:58.080 --> 0:00:59.320 we go ahead and just set this up a little 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:01.280 bit and just tell us a little bit about you know, 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.800 who you are, how you got into this blockchain, croup 0:01:04.959 --> 0:01:06.880 currency space, and kind of what you're working on right 0:01:06.880 --> 0:01:10.480 now yeah, sure, So we have been in the space 0:01:10.520 --> 0:01:13.640 for quite a while. Actually it all started as as 0:01:13.680 --> 0:01:16.759 many good things are from the hackathon. So I went 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:19.760 to one of the first blockchain hackathons in Moscow and 0:01:19.880 --> 0:01:23.120 it was actually Round two SEUSAN fifteen and it was 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:27.200 hosted partially by by like our university and other other 0:01:27.240 --> 0:01:31.199 companies like n XD for instance. So we I got 0:01:31.280 --> 0:01:34.240 my now co founder Alex to join me on this hacothon. 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:36.480 So we went there and we got a price from 0:01:36.840 --> 0:01:40.959 um now the co founder of Waves platform. So this 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.880 is how they all started for us. We've been developing 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:47.320 smart contracts since then, and then its rated on different products. 0:01:47.319 --> 0:01:50.920 So one of the big products we started with as 0:01:51.000 --> 0:01:54.360 the area and was the organization platform during Guys Crazy, 0:01:54.400 --> 0:01:57.880 so we were helping companies to do the technical side 0:01:57.920 --> 0:02:00.760 of every I s. So we did in total like 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.200 ten I cues uh And then as the market was evolving, 0:02:04.320 --> 0:02:08.440 we saw that the opportunities actually moving more into the 0:02:08.440 --> 0:02:11.079 de centralized finance space. We like the much better than 0:02:11.200 --> 0:02:14.200 what we saw happening with the I C market because 0:02:14.200 --> 0:02:16.800 we were getting over the pretty bad i would say 0:02:16.880 --> 0:02:20.320 applications and we didn't want to do all over them, 0:02:20.360 --> 0:02:22.000 I would say, so there were only a few that 0:02:22.080 --> 0:02:25.600 we add to an extent like So that's that's how 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.480 we got into the defile space and then started working 0:02:28.480 --> 0:02:33.000 on the current vision and version of SERA. Interesting. So, um, 0:02:33.040 --> 0:02:36.560 you said the waves platform, correct, yep, And and yeah, 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:38.679 I remember the Waves platform really had set up a 0:02:38.720 --> 0:02:40.600 platform for people to come and launch their I c 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:43.640 O tokens on there. So that's interesting. So you were 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:46.480 kind of working behind the scenes on that. Um, so 0:02:46.560 --> 0:02:48.799 this is not something that we were involved with, but 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:52.240 waves plat from the original idea that they didn't have 0:02:52.280 --> 0:02:55.000 any small contracts and they wanted to prevent the basic 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:58.280 functionality on the protocol level, like the centralized exchanges not 0:02:58.400 --> 0:03:01.560 being as an application on top of the theory for instance, 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:05.160 but in veg they included that as part of the protocol. 0:03:05.200 --> 0:03:07.800 So that's that's the direction that they were moving in 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.000 back in the days. I believe that now they have 0:03:10.120 --> 0:03:14.000 shifted more into smartphone checks like food implementation of smartphone 0:03:14.040 --> 0:03:17.280 checks on the platform. But we weren't involved in helping 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:20.600 them to um fundraise for their platform and back and 0:03:20.960 --> 0:03:25.520 into thousands sixteen okay, yeah, and then by two thousand seventeen. 0:03:25.560 --> 0:03:27.560 They were going pretty hard and heavy, I guess, launching 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:30.400 a bunch of I c o s and tokens. Yeah, 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:33.440 I believe they did quite a few. I haven't heard 0:03:33.480 --> 0:03:39.520 of many major ones, but but yeah, definitely they did. Yeah. Interesting, 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:41.640 So you saw kind of a problem that was going 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:43.800 on in that space where you just didn't feel like 0:03:43.800 --> 0:03:47.600 a lot of these projects were um necessary, right or whatever. 0:03:47.640 --> 0:03:49.440 So you kind of wanted to leave that and they'll 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:51.800 find a place where maybe there was a better product 0:03:51.880 --> 0:03:55.520 market fit. Yeah, that's that's right. So we originally when 0:03:55.520 --> 0:03:58.680 we started with the Tokensation platform, we were excited about 0:03:58.720 --> 0:04:02.040 io as a can sept ourselves, like very excited because 0:04:02.440 --> 0:04:05.040 we saw how the Theorium came up as a nice 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:07.000 year and it was a very successful one. There were 0:04:07.000 --> 0:04:10.080 a few others, and that's how we jumped into the space, 0:04:10.120 --> 0:04:12.120 and we saw that not many people want to do 0:04:12.160 --> 0:04:15.560 that themselves, all the tag beflient lunching a nice ear. 0:04:15.880 --> 0:04:19.039 But then later on it turned into a craze, I 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.560 would say, so a ton of people just jumped into it, 0:04:21.839 --> 0:04:25.440 and not all the good ones. They wanted to scan 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.479 people from time to time, and that that's what distracted 0:04:28.560 --> 0:04:31.880 us from the space, and we we decided that we 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:33.840 need to move on from the from the I c 0:04:33.960 --> 0:04:37.360 O space and UM. But still we believe in the 0:04:37.720 --> 0:04:41.120 centralized finance and open finance and access and access to 0:04:41.240 --> 0:04:44.400 a lot of people to investment opportunities and other things. 0:04:44.480 --> 0:04:48.120 So that's uh. We discovered defied as a concept UM 0:04:48.400 --> 0:04:51.919 and we saw an opportunity there like what what's the 0:04:51.920 --> 0:04:55.720 problem within the DeFi spaces and how we can tackle it? Yeah, 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:57.840 that's great, So what what do you see being the 0:04:58.000 --> 0:05:00.440 problems in the in the DeFi space that that you're 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.360 trying to solve and tackle there? There are a lot 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.800 of prestil So we what we did and we just 0:05:05.839 --> 0:05:09.520 sat down, uh and tried to use all these essentialized 0:05:09.520 --> 0:05:13.280 finance protocols ourselves. And it was a pain starting from 0:05:13.320 --> 0:05:16.560 like the first moment. And even though we were experienced 0:05:16.560 --> 0:05:19.720 already with developing on the theorem and the theorem itself, 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:23.119 it was still complicated to just like opening for instance, 0:05:23.160 --> 0:05:25.760 the CDP was a huge pain back in the days 0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:29.080 UM and then other protocols they were also suffering from 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:32.039 similar issues. You know, you need to know about all 0:05:32.040 --> 0:05:35.560 the concepts that UM people are referring to when talking 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:37.960 about essential of finance, they are actually not known by 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.680 a lot of people. And that's that's I think the 0:05:40.760 --> 0:05:43.720 largest issue because it's so much it's like the knowledge 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:46.600 gap between what people should know to start using it 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:49.640 and what is the current state of the spaces. So 0:05:49.640 --> 0:05:52.240 when we talk about the DeFi space overall, and you 0:05:52.520 --> 0:05:55.800 mentioned CDP, so CDP for those that aren't aware, is 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.800 the collateralized debt position, right, so it's, uh, you can 0:06:00.000 --> 0:06:02.360 pen up a CDP on Maker Dow right, which would 0:06:02.400 --> 0:06:04.599 be like a loan. Is that is that correct? Is 0:06:04.600 --> 0:06:08.919 that you? And uh? And and so really the DeFi 0:06:09.000 --> 0:06:12.159 space is is it predominantly just the borrowing and lending 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:17.360 that's happening on cryptocurrency. I would also include the centralized 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:20.919 exchanges into that space. They were created before the lending 0:06:20.920 --> 0:06:23.960 and boring even appeared, but I kind of defy that 0:06:24.040 --> 0:06:27.440 defined that as um the essential of that changes table 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:31.640 coins and learning and boring. So these are the primary ones, 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:34.240 I would say. But then the I think the last 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.240 one that is that hasn't yet happened to an extent 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:42.279 is synthetic assets that it's emergency yeah, um so so yeah, 0:06:42.320 --> 0:06:44.440 I guess the exchanges would be the first piece, right, 0:06:44.480 --> 0:06:46.920 So that's where people are needing to exchange their tokens 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.120 um and most of those decentralized exchanges or I guess 0:06:50.120 --> 0:06:52.880 all of them have really been built in the ethereum ecosystem. 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:57.440 So is all this happening in the ethereum ecosystem. There's 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:01.599 some development on other changes all and especially in the 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:05.120 de centralized exchanges space on EOS. I believe that there 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.800 are a few decentralized exchanges that will operate life and 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:11.560 on a few others. So like, for instance, Waves that 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:14.480 we've talked about, they have the centralized exchanged upper running 0:07:14.600 --> 0:07:18.920 and it has pretty good going um. But most of 0:07:18.960 --> 0:07:22.480 the lending and boring stuff and all the complicated new 0:07:22.600 --> 0:07:25.760 things they actually just appear on the theorem for a 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:28.760 few reasons, I guess the major ones. It is just 0:07:29.240 --> 0:07:31.720 first of all, there are a ton of different tokens 0:07:31.720 --> 0:07:34.040 on the theorem, so it's there's a lot of different 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.280 tokens to trade and then use as a collateral, etcetera. 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:40.200 So these are the building pieces that are required to 0:07:40.320 --> 0:07:42.880 have the centralzed fendance. We need to have different kinds 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:45.640 of assets. And then the next one is I think 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:50.600 according to a few researchers, there's like four x developers 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:53.200 on the theorem then on any other chain and git 0:07:53.280 --> 0:07:55.800 point of the second one. So it just in terms 0:07:55.840 --> 0:08:00.280 of the network effect of people working on specific products. Yeah, 0:08:00.280 --> 0:08:02.760 I saw that. I saw that chart. So back to 0:08:02.800 --> 0:08:05.040 the problem that you're seeing. So, UM, you you look 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:07.480 at the DeFi space, you looked at the different products 0:08:07.480 --> 0:08:11.000 and that are available, UM, and I guess the problem 0:08:11.000 --> 0:08:14.520 that you saw is that they're very difficult to use. Yeah, 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.040 that's that's largely right. So we just believe that the 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:21.360 the centrazed fendance should be accessible to people, but right 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:23.760 now it isn't. So what we wanted to do is 0:08:23.760 --> 0:08:27.320 actually bring that to to the larger audience of people, 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:32.320 not just adopters of DeFi only. And and is that 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.240 through giving them an easier like ui u X, like 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:38.959 an easier interface that makes it more accessible to them, 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.360 or is it through like marketing or how do you 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:44.880 want to do that? Yeah, so we there are a 0:08:44.920 --> 0:08:48.400 few different approaches how to address that. So we have 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.880 focused on the user experience as our first aspect. And 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:57.040 simply because UM user experience is something it's very important 0:08:57.040 --> 0:08:59.520 from our view and we believe in that, UM and 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:01.400 we already they see the results of that. So it's 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:03.679 much easier to use, for instance, are and than if 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:07.480 you other other applications, and a lot of protocols are 0:09:07.520 --> 0:09:10.760 sending US users because they're the new bees and they 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:13.880 don't know how to upgrade in the in this whole space. UM. 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:17.760 But in terms of other approaches like US UX does 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:21.800 not come just as the DUI tweeks and to make 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.800 the UX better you need to work on multiple different levels. 0:09:24.840 --> 0:09:28.160 So that includes both the back end and the smart contract. 0:09:28.200 --> 0:09:31.640 So we're not targeting. We're not doing yet UM as 0:09:31.679 --> 0:09:34.960 you said, some marketing or promotion of debt, but it's 0:09:35.040 --> 0:09:38.280 more on the level of UX. The UX involves other 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.280 aspects that are behind the scenes that you don't really 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:43.079 see when when you just like see the n c 0:09:43.160 --> 0:09:45.839 u X. But in terms of like making this work, 0:09:45.920 --> 0:09:49.320 you would need to have a sophisticated backend system and 0:09:49.400 --> 0:09:52.600 the smart contract. Yeah, yeah, I've seen. You know. It's 0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:55.080 interesting because we have these building blocks as you've laid 0:09:55.080 --> 0:09:59.480 them out right, basically four three or four exchange stable coins, lending, borrowing, 0:09:59.520 --> 0:10:02.160 and then maybe synthetic assets UM and so you kind 0:10:02.160 --> 0:10:04.400 of have those four building blocks that can be then 0:10:04.520 --> 0:10:08.920 like added together, but we're starting to see people are 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:11.440 putting them together in different ways and coming up with 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:15.120 like new creative use cases. Um. So that's what I 0:10:15.200 --> 0:10:17.720 was curious. Is it like maybe just making all these 0:10:17.720 --> 0:10:19.720 easier to use or are you guys trying to kind 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:22.120 of develop your own financial products based off of these 0:10:22.120 --> 0:10:25.560 building blocks for some of each. Yes, So we we're 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:30.079 debating that internally about building our own financial products. And 0:10:30.120 --> 0:10:32.600 the thing is that is that we just don't want 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:34.200 to rush with that. We see that a lot of 0:10:34.200 --> 0:10:37.080 people are actually working on something similar or we're working 0:10:37.120 --> 0:10:40.920 on um products that would aggregate different out of financial 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:44.600 building blocks, and there's not much reason for us to 0:10:44.800 --> 0:10:47.520 jump into that right away. We just see that it 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:49.839 is it will be possible to integrate these as well, 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:51.880 and I think I think that's the mutual benefits for 0:10:52.000 --> 0:10:56.120 both asked the company that develops the protocol and UH 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:59.320 in the ecosystem in general. So right now, I wouldn't 0:10:59.360 --> 0:11:02.880 rush into that. And we see that like, yeah, all 0:11:02.960 --> 0:11:05.679 the new things that are popping up, I would say, 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:07.840 like five different teams are working on the same thing. 0:11:08.040 --> 0:11:11.240 So um, We don't think that we should compete with 0:11:11.320 --> 0:11:14.640 them on on that realm. We just better think how 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:17.000 that can be presented to the users. And that's how 0:11:17.120 --> 0:11:20.200 how do we increase the adoption of that specific new 0:11:20.240 --> 0:11:22.920 building blocks that people come up with. Do you want 0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:26.240 to talk about what what you're doing specifically, what Zerion 0:11:26.360 --> 0:11:29.320 is doing specifically? Can you get into that? Do you 0:11:29.320 --> 0:11:32.200 mean in terms of like roadmap for the next few 0:11:32.280 --> 0:11:38.120 months currently and and the near roadmap. Yeah, so we 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:41.880 we just recently rolled out a few features for completely 0:11:41.920 --> 0:11:45.360 new users to enter the space. So over the summer 0:11:46.120 --> 0:11:49.280 we created like we allow people to create an account 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:53.200 using their phone numbers. Now we have integrated deposits with 0:11:53.280 --> 0:11:56.079 how haven't announced that yet, but now you can buy 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:00.240 from Zeri and you can buy cryptocurrencies right away. So 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:02.680 these are the things that will make the experience much better. 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:04.360 So you can just start off with the area and 0:12:04.440 --> 0:12:08.680 without leaving um to get either for instance. But then 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.480 now we want to focus on more sophisticated financial products, 0:12:12.800 --> 0:12:16.480 products that are already available on the market. So we 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:20.480 we want to have different things like set protocols, beauty 0:12:20.559 --> 0:12:23.840 swap pools and use swap pools is coming next to 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:26.040 be viewed within zerin so you don't need to jump 0:12:26.080 --> 0:12:29.960 into like five different applications to understand how your patrol 0:12:30.040 --> 0:12:32.600 you is looking like. So that would be all include 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.200 UM so apart from said UM, we want to have 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:41.160 d I, d X lending integration and other protocols. And 0:12:41.200 --> 0:12:43.560 that's what you said, set protocol And then did you 0:12:43.559 --> 0:12:49.720 say swap protocol used swap pools, so SWA pools. Yeah, yeah, 0:12:49.720 --> 0:12:54.360 so used weapcols. I can go into detalum so use 0:12:55.080 --> 0:12:58.920 allows people to deposit the quality to use swap pools 0:12:58.920 --> 0:13:02.320 and pools amant for trading on union swab. So whenever 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:04.880 you make a trade for instance, a theorem to die 0:13:05.040 --> 0:13:08.400 or theorem to use the see, you would need to UM. 0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:11.520 You're using someone else's liquity for that to make a trade. 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:16.760 And UM liquidity providers they are rewarded UM with zero 0:13:16.760 --> 0:13:20.040 point three percent of the token of the trade size. 0:13:20.640 --> 0:13:24.000 And that liquidity can be provided from anywhere, so anyone 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:27.920 can provide the sequity and that's called um unic swab pools. 0:13:28.320 --> 0:13:31.040 And we want to have that integrated as a financial 0:13:31.080 --> 0:13:35.120 product within there, and so you can UM manager returns 0:13:35.200 --> 0:13:38.360 on unit swap pools you can departed or withdraw liquidity 0:13:38.440 --> 0:13:41.800 from there, um, et cetera. So that's uh so if 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:44.079 I was a user UM and I was using the 0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:46.800 zero on UM app, I would then be able to 0:13:46.840 --> 0:13:50.920 take my UM tokens and then provide them as liquidity 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:55.520 for this exchange. And by providing those tokens as liquidity, 0:13:55.559 --> 0:13:59.319 I can make a percentage back. Yes, that's correct, we 0:13:59.679 --> 0:14:02.800 used You're you're still betting on that's a bit more 0:14:02.840 --> 0:14:06.800 complicated financial product because it's not necessarily profitable if the 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:09.680 price of one of the assets goes one way or another, 0:14:09.800 --> 0:14:13.000 so there is a risk associated with that, but you 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:17.800 still earn on the productal feeds. So that Yeah, So 0:14:17.880 --> 0:14:20.480 I mean I'm gonna earn the point three or whatever 0:14:20.520 --> 0:14:23.800 that is UM. If the underlying asset goes up or down, 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:25.560 then I could lose on the asset, but I am 0:14:25.560 --> 0:14:30.560 going to earn on the asset, right, Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, okay, 0:14:31.280 --> 0:14:33.880 um okay. So that's that's an interesting way to do that. 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:37.280 So we can earn liquidity. So it's it's basically another 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:39.520 way to earn against our tokens, may be similar to 0:14:39.600 --> 0:14:44.920 staking or through through lending. Yeah, but as I said, 0:14:44.920 --> 0:14:48.680 it's a bit more risky because you need to understand 0:14:48.720 --> 0:14:51.440 that if the price of the asset is fluctuating a lot, 0:14:52.240 --> 0:14:55.080 Like the best case scenario is when the price of 0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:58.320 finances goes up and then goes down, and then goes 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:00.440 up and then goes down again to the same where 0:15:00.480 --> 0:15:03.600 you entered. You would just get the fees if if 0:15:03.640 --> 0:15:05.840 the now the price is the same as you entered 0:15:05.840 --> 0:15:09.440 the pool. But if the price was fluctuating, like for instance, 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.000 Easter going out a lot, then you would lose on 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:14.680 the school because it would be better just to hold either. 0:15:15.840 --> 0:15:20.840 Oh gotcha, gotcha? So when when when, when you feel 0:15:20.880 --> 0:15:22.640 that it's in a good range, it might be time 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:24.240 to take advantage of that, But in a in a 0:15:24.280 --> 0:15:26.400 strong bowl trend, maybe it's not the best time to 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:31.680 take advantage of that. Yeah, that's right, okay. And then 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:34.840 so that's interesting the swap protocols, and do you think 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:38.440 over time, like lots of different application developers will will 0:15:38.520 --> 0:15:40.600 integrate that in so that unit swap ends up with 0:15:40.640 --> 0:15:44.200 a lot of liquidity. Is that the goal? Um? Yeah, 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.040 so they originally the the idea of the protocol was 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:49.160 to open this up for a lot of people, so 0:15:49.400 --> 0:15:52.720 everyone can deposit cuility. Right now, there's only unit swap 0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:55.800 that allows people to deposit that, so only through union swap, 0:15:56.040 --> 0:15:59.520 UM units or interface you can put theequility in or 0:15:59.600 --> 0:16:03.560 through the smart contract itself UM. But we as we 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:06.160 will be integrating that so there will be more places 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:11.520 to depositive critity. Okay, and then you before the unitsap protocol, 0:16:11.560 --> 0:16:14.040 you talked about the set protocol, and the set protocol 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.560 is a protocol that allows you to build certain sets 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:23.720 or like um different assets in certain like almost like 0:16:23.720 --> 0:16:27.240 an index. Is that correct? Yeah, that's that's right. So 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.720 that was I believe that was their original idea to 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:34.760 just build similar to like E T s UM indexes. 0:16:35.280 --> 0:16:38.240 But right now I think it has a much larger 0:16:38.360 --> 0:16:41.320 use case, use cases and scenarios how it can be 0:16:41.320 --> 0:16:44.440 applied because you can track different things, not just the 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:46.960 prices of assets, but you can track other things about 0:16:46.960 --> 0:16:50.520 the assets that can be used to rebalance the portfolio. 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:55.200 So yeah, right now they have a few different ones UM. 0:16:55.800 --> 0:16:59.240 So the sets are currently limited to what set protocol 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:02.800 allows and allows people to create on on their website. 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:08.520 I think the few first ones for um ether bitcoin 0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.480 or our right versa, and the ones that are trying 0:17:12.520 --> 0:17:15.800 to capture the the heights of the market and the 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.280 lows of the market. So if it's like it's a 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:24.920 balancing set, so is this something where like you'll tap 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.399 into their sets and bring those onto your platform, or 0:17:27.440 --> 0:17:30.600 you'll build your own sets. So we're not planning to 0:17:30.600 --> 0:17:33.160 build our own sets full time being, so we will 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.879 be just helping people to manage their sets, get in 0:17:36.960 --> 0:17:41.320 the area in itself, and it's all our our features 0:17:41.320 --> 0:17:43.760 actually based only your feedback. So we're just collecting what 0:17:43.880 --> 0:17:46.879 people are just requesting um from time to time to 0:17:46.960 --> 0:17:49.200 implement within the area. So we are using that to 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:54.679 prioritize our features. Okay, all right, so what what what 0:17:54.760 --> 0:17:58.680 other things are you putting in there? What about the 0:17:58.760 --> 0:18:02.200 lending and borrowing? Yes, so right now we do support 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:06.479 make your do boring, but we don't support compound boring 0:18:06.840 --> 0:18:11.280 and that's something that a few people ask and we're 0:18:11.320 --> 0:18:14.480 looking to that. How how do we make it nice 0:18:14.920 --> 0:18:16.320 and how do we make it where it could make 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:19.800 your dial as well, So this is definitely coming at 0:18:19.840 --> 0:18:24.560 some point. Okay. Yeah, And on the compound finance side, 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.160 we have only landing right now, so you can put 0:18:27.160 --> 0:18:32.720 your assets to earn interest, but you cannot borrow through there. Okay, 0:18:33.440 --> 0:18:35.679 so we can put our assets on the platform. We 0:18:35.720 --> 0:18:39.360 could maybe potentially use the set protocols to rebalance them 0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:43.800 or take advantage of different ethere and bitcoin splits um 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:47.320 provide liquidity to the protocol, do some lending eventually maybe 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:48.879 doing some lending and borrowing. So it's kind of like 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.840 a all in one place to take advantage of all 0:18:51.880 --> 0:18:56.840 these DeFi applications. Yeah, that's mainly right. Yeah, we just 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.359 wanted to make it simple so you can compare different rates. 0:19:00.440 --> 0:19:03.159 So for instance, right now, like there's only one boring 0:19:03.200 --> 0:19:06.920 protocol Maker Dial, but then once we have compounds, you'll 0:19:06.920 --> 0:19:09.320 be able to choose which one do you want to 0:19:09.359 --> 0:19:11.879 go with to like Make or Dial. Rate is I 0:19:11.920 --> 0:19:17.360 believe are around twenty and compound is I would say sixteen. 0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:20.920 Haven't checked just yet, but around that. So you can 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:25.120 go ahead with compounds instead of Maker if you want so. Um, 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:27.359 when you look at the industry overall, so you you 0:19:27.440 --> 0:19:29.280 kind of have this, you have a little bit of history. 0:19:29.280 --> 0:19:30.960 I mean, you've been doing this for several years. You 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:33.080 were you saw a lot of different I c O 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:36.040 s UM. You know, back in the back in that stage, 0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:37.920 So you kind of have this perspective of the whole 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:40.960 market and ecosystem and at how this technology is advancing. 0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:46.160 So I'm curious, um, what you think about defy specifically. 0:19:46.160 --> 0:19:48.639 I mean, obviously you're building in it, but um, do 0:19:48.680 --> 0:19:51.320 you feel like this is maybe like the first kind 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:53.720 of application that we're going to see to really start 0:19:53.720 --> 0:19:58.399 getting traction? Um? I think so yes. UM. So I was, 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:02.480 to be honest, like a round um mayor last year, 0:20:02.760 --> 0:20:06.639 I was pretty disappointed by the overall state of the market. 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:09.160 So it was just I see it was only nothing 0:20:09.200 --> 0:20:13.879 else was happening, No teams were delivering any products mainly, 0:20:14.000 --> 0:20:17.800 and it was just very depressing. But then I went 0:20:17.840 --> 0:20:19.960 to dot com and that was kind of like a 0:20:20.000 --> 0:20:23.400 bit of fresh air because people I just saw the 0:20:23.440 --> 0:20:26.520 emergence of defied space, that a lot of things are 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:29.720 actually happening behind the scenes. So that was very refreshing, 0:20:29.800 --> 0:20:33.480 and we saw that Defy something that is very much 0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:36.159 aligned with what we live in and how the space 0:20:36.440 --> 0:20:41.520 de evolving. Remember, like all these ideas around the centralized finance, 0:20:41.560 --> 0:20:43.879 they were kind of already in the air for a 0:20:43.920 --> 0:20:46.800 long time. So since the origination of there, I would say, 0:20:47.040 --> 0:20:50.960 but it was more I think, um kind of like 0:20:51.200 --> 0:20:54.479 the space was trying to shift towards Web three and 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:58.520 that the that shift I think would take much longer time. UM, 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:02.080 and defies is something that we can already see the 0:21:02.080 --> 0:21:05.320 benefits of right away. So that's why I think DeFi 0:21:05.400 --> 0:21:09.600 space right now is very interesting for everyone to join. 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:13.720 Do you think right now? I mean, who is the user? 0:21:13.920 --> 0:21:16.080 What's the use case for DeFi? Is this like a 0:21:16.200 --> 0:21:20.800 retail trader investor? Or are this more like institutional grade 0:21:20.800 --> 0:21:25.520 like products? Um, that's more I would say, it's it's 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:30.080 the first individual. So mainly people are U using defied 0:21:30.119 --> 0:21:32.960 space for its simplicity if you know what what you're doing. 0:21:33.400 --> 0:21:36.520 So in simplicity I mean, but not the RX of 0:21:36.560 --> 0:21:39.720 it right now, but in terms of the speed and UM, 0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.560 for instance, like getting a CDP is much is very 0:21:43.640 --> 0:21:46.800 easy for a lot of people, and then than just 0:21:46.840 --> 0:21:48.600 going to bank and trying to get the same loan 0:21:48.720 --> 0:21:51.320 using your crypto as a collateral, so that that seems 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:55.119 impossible to to a lot of people. And UM, that's 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:59.440 that's actually pretty much true for many usictions. And that's 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:03.560 why fight it's like easy in that sense, and it's 0:22:03.640 --> 0:22:06.640 much faster than traditional banking system as well. So that's 0:22:06.880 --> 0:22:10.960 for instance, like earning time percent on your dollars. Is 0:22:11.320 --> 0:22:13.800