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Speaker 1: So the big question is this, how do investors like

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Speaker 1: us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly,

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Speaker 1: the right people that give us the tools and information

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Speaker 1: we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success.

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Speaker 1: That is the question, and this podcast will give us

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Speaker 1: the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get

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Speaker 1: this started. Hello, and welcome to another episode of the

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Speaker 1: Market Disruptors podcast. Today I am joined by v Jennie.

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Speaker 1: He is the CEO and co founder of zeri on,

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Speaker 1: which is making big moves in the defive space. We

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Speaker 1: get into a really good conversation talking about his background

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Speaker 1: in the cryptocurrency space, building tokens, building token platforms, how

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Speaker 1: he found out about the DeFi space, and why he

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Speaker 1: thinks it's probably the biggest thing happening right now in

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Speaker 1: the crypto space, and what they're doing about it. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's a great conversation. I really enjoyed. Let's go ahead

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Speaker 1: just jump right into it. Great. So, um, why don't

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Speaker 1: we go ahead and just set this up a little

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Speaker 1: bit and just tell us a little bit about you know,

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Speaker 1: who you are, how you got into this blockchain, croup

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Speaker 1: currency space, and kind of what you're working on right

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Speaker 1: now yeah, sure, So we have been in the space

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Speaker 1: for quite a while. Actually it all started as as

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Speaker 1: many good things are from the hackathon. So I went

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Speaker 1: to one of the first blockchain hackathons in Moscow and

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Speaker 1: it was actually Round two SEUSAN fifteen and it was

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Speaker 1: hosted partially by by like our university and other other

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Speaker 1: companies like n XD for instance. So we I got

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Speaker 1: my now co founder Alex to join me on this hacothon.

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Speaker 1: So we went there and we got a price from

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Speaker 1: um now the co founder of Waves platform. So this

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Speaker 1: is how they all started for us. We've been developing

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Speaker 1: smart contracts since then, and then its rated on different products.

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Speaker 1: So one of the big products we started with as

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Speaker 1: the area and was the organization platform during Guys Crazy,

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Speaker 1: so we were helping companies to do the technical side

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Speaker 1: of every I s. So we did in total like

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Speaker 1: ten I cues uh And then as the market was evolving,

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Speaker 1: we saw that the opportunities actually moving more into the

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Speaker 1: de centralized finance space. We like the much better than

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Speaker 1: what we saw happening with the I C market because

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Speaker 1: we were getting over the pretty bad i would say

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Speaker 1: applications and we didn't want to do all over them,

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Speaker 1: I would say, so there were only a few that

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Speaker 1: we add to an extent like So that's that's how

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Speaker 1: we got into the defile space and then started working

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Speaker 1: on the current vision and version of SERA. Interesting. So, um,

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Speaker 1: you said the waves platform, correct, yep, And and yeah,

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Speaker 1: I remember the Waves platform really had set up a

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Speaker 1: platform for people to come and launch their I c

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Speaker 1: O tokens on there. So that's interesting. So you were

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Speaker 1: kind of working behind the scenes on that. Um, so

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Speaker 1: this is not something that we were involved with, but

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Speaker 1: waves plat from the original idea that they didn't have

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Speaker 1: any small contracts and they wanted to prevent the basic

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Speaker 1: functionality on the protocol level, like the centralized exchanges not

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Speaker 1: being as an application on top of the theory for instance,

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Speaker 1: but in veg they included that as part of the protocol.

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Speaker 1: So that's that's the direction that they were moving in

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Speaker 1: back in the days. I believe that now they have

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Speaker 1: shifted more into smartphone checks like food implementation of smartphone

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Speaker 1: checks on the platform. But we weren't involved in helping

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Speaker 1: them to um fundraise for their platform and back and

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Speaker 1: into thousands sixteen okay, yeah, and then by two thousand seventeen.

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Speaker 1: They were going pretty hard and heavy, I guess, launching

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Speaker 1: a bunch of I c o s and tokens. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I believe they did quite a few. I haven't heard

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Speaker 1: of many major ones, but but yeah, definitely they did. Yeah. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: So you saw kind of a problem that was going

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Speaker 1: on in that space where you just didn't feel like

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Speaker 1: a lot of these projects were um necessary, right or whatever.

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Speaker 1: So you kind of wanted to leave that and they'll

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Speaker 1: find a place where maybe there was a better product

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Speaker 1: market fit. Yeah, that's that's right. So we originally when

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Speaker 1: we started with the Tokensation platform, we were excited about

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Speaker 1: io as a can sept ourselves, like very excited because

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Speaker 1: we saw how the Theorium came up as a nice

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Speaker 1: year and it was a very successful one. There were

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Speaker 1: a few others, and that's how we jumped into the space,

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Speaker 1: and we saw that not many people want to do

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Speaker 1: that themselves, all the tag beflient lunching a nice ear.

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Speaker 1: But then later on it turned into a craze, I

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Speaker 1: would say, so a ton of people just jumped into it,

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Speaker 1: and not all the good ones. They wanted to scan

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Speaker 1: people from time to time, and that that's what distracted

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Speaker 1: us from the space, and we we decided that we

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Speaker 1: need to move on from the from the I c

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Speaker 1: O space and UM. But still we believe in the

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Speaker 1: centralized finance and open finance and access and access to

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Speaker 1: a lot of people to investment opportunities and other things.

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Speaker 1: So that's uh. We discovered defied as a concept UM

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Speaker 1: and we saw an opportunity there like what what's the

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Speaker 1: problem within the DeFi spaces and how we can tackle it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's great, So what what do you see being the

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Speaker 1: problems in the in the DeFi space that that you're

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Speaker 1: trying to solve and tackle there? There are a lot

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Speaker 1: of prestil So we what we did and we just

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Speaker 1: sat down, uh and tried to use all these essentialized

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Speaker 1: finance protocols ourselves. And it was a pain starting from

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Speaker 1: like the first moment. And even though we were experienced

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Speaker 1: already with developing on the theorem and the theorem itself,

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Speaker 1: it was still complicated to just like opening for instance,

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Speaker 1: the CDP was a huge pain back in the days

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Speaker 1: UM and then other protocols they were also suffering from

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Speaker 1: similar issues. You know, you need to know about all

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Speaker 1: the concepts that UM people are referring to when talking

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Speaker 1: about essential of finance, they are actually not known by

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Speaker 1: a lot of people. And that's that's I think the

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Speaker 1: largest issue because it's so much it's like the knowledge

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Speaker 1: gap between what people should know to start using it

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Speaker 1: and what is the current state of the spaces. So

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Speaker 1: when we talk about the DeFi space overall, and you

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Speaker 1: mentioned CDP, so CDP for those that aren't aware, is

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Speaker 1: the collateralized debt position, right, so it's, uh, you can

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Speaker 1: pen up a CDP on Maker Dow right, which would

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Speaker 1: be like a loan. Is that is that correct? Is

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Speaker 1: that you? And uh? And and so really the DeFi

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Speaker 1: space is is it predominantly just the borrowing and lending

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Speaker 1: that's happening on cryptocurrency. I would also include the centralized

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Speaker 1: exchanges into that space. They were created before the lending

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Speaker 1: and boring even appeared, but I kind of defy that

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Speaker 1: defined that as um the essential of that changes table

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Speaker 1: coins and learning and boring. So these are the primary ones,

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Speaker 1: I would say. But then the I think the last

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Speaker 1: one that is that hasn't yet happened to an extent

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Speaker 1: is synthetic assets that it's emergency yeah, um so so yeah,

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Speaker 1: I guess the exchanges would be the first piece, right,

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Speaker 1: So that's where people are needing to exchange their tokens

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Speaker 1: um and most of those decentralized exchanges or I guess

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Speaker 1: all of them have really been built in the ethereum ecosystem.

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Speaker 1: So is all this happening in the ethereum ecosystem. There's

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Speaker 1: some development on other changes all and especially in the

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Speaker 1: de centralized exchanges space on EOS. I believe that there

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Speaker 1: are a few decentralized exchanges that will operate life and

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Speaker 1: on a few others. So like, for instance, Waves that

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Speaker 1: we've talked about, they have the centralized exchanged upper running

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Speaker 1: and it has pretty good going um. But most of

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Speaker 1: the lending and boring stuff and all the complicated new

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Speaker 1: things they actually just appear on the theorem for a

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Speaker 1: few reasons, I guess the major ones. It is just

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Speaker 1: first of all, there are a ton of different tokens

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Speaker 1: on the theorem, so it's there's a lot of different

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Speaker 1: tokens to trade and then use as a collateral, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: So these are the building pieces that are required to

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Speaker 1: have the centralzed fendance. We need to have different kinds

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Speaker 1: of assets. And then the next one is I think

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Speaker 1: according to a few researchers, there's like four x developers

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Speaker 1: on the theorem then on any other chain and git

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Speaker 1: point of the second one. So it just in terms

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Speaker 1: of the network effect of people working on specific products. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I saw that. I saw that chart. So back to

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Speaker 1: the problem that you're seeing. So, UM, you you look

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Speaker 1: at the DeFi space, you looked at the different products

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Speaker 1: and that are available, UM, and I guess the problem

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Speaker 1: that you saw is that they're very difficult to use. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's largely right. So we just believe that the

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Speaker 1: the centrazed fendance should be accessible to people, but right

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Speaker 1: now it isn't. So what we wanted to do is

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Speaker 1: actually bring that to to the larger audience of people,

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Speaker 1: not just adopters of DeFi only. And and is that

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Speaker 1: through giving them an easier like ui u X, like

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Speaker 1: an easier interface that makes it more accessible to them,

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Speaker 1: or is it through like marketing or how do you

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Speaker 1: want to do that? Yeah, so we there are a

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Speaker 1: few different approaches how to address that. So we have

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Speaker 1: focused on the user experience as our first aspect. And

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Speaker 1: simply because UM user experience is something it's very important

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Speaker 1: from our view and we believe in that, UM and

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Speaker 1: we already they see the results of that. So it's

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Speaker 1: much easier to use, for instance, are and than if

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Speaker 1: you other other applications, and a lot of protocols are

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Speaker 1: sending US users because they're the new bees and they

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Speaker 1: don't know how to upgrade in the in this whole space. UM.

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Speaker 1: But in terms of other approaches like US UX does

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Speaker 1: not come just as the DUI tweeks and to make

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Speaker 1: the UX better you need to work on multiple different levels.

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Speaker 1: So that includes both the back end and the smart contract.

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Speaker 1: So we're not targeting. We're not doing yet UM as

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Speaker 1: you said, some marketing or promotion of debt, but it's

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Speaker 1: more on the level of UX. The UX involves other

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Speaker 1: aspects that are behind the scenes that you don't really

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Speaker 1: see when when you just like see the n c

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Speaker 1: u X. But in terms of like making this work,

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Speaker 1: you would need to have a sophisticated backend system and

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Speaker 1: the smart contract. Yeah, yeah, I've seen. You know. It's

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Speaker 1: interesting because we have these building blocks as you've laid

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Speaker 1: them out right, basically four three or four exchange stable coins, lending, borrowing,

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Speaker 1: and then maybe synthetic assets UM and so you kind

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Speaker 1: of have those four building blocks that can be then

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Speaker 1: like added together, but we're starting to see people are

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Speaker 1: putting them together in different ways and coming up with

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Speaker 1: like new creative use cases. Um. So that's what I

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Speaker 1: was curious. Is it like maybe just making all these

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Speaker 1: easier to use or are you guys trying to kind

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Speaker 1: of develop your own financial products based off of these

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Speaker 1: building blocks for some of each. Yes, So we we're

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Speaker 1: debating that internally about building our own financial products. And

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Speaker 1: the thing is that is that we just don't want

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Speaker 1: to rush with that. We see that a lot of

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Speaker 1: people are actually working on something similar or we're working

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Speaker 1: on um products that would aggregate different out of financial

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Speaker 1: building blocks, and there's not much reason for us to

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Speaker 1: jump into that right away. We just see that it

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Speaker 1: is it will be possible to integrate these as well,

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Speaker 1: and I think I think that's the mutual benefits for

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Speaker 1: both asked the company that develops the protocol and UH

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Speaker 1: in the ecosystem in general. So right now, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: rush into that. And we see that like, yeah, all

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Speaker 1: the new things that are popping up, I would say,

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Speaker 1: like five different teams are working on the same thing.

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Speaker 1: So um, We don't think that we should compete with

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Speaker 1: them on on that realm. We just better think how

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Speaker 1: that can be presented to the users. And that's how

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Speaker 1: how do we increase the adoption of that specific new

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Speaker 1: building blocks that people come up with. Do you want

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Speaker 1: to talk about what what you're doing specifically, what Zerion

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Speaker 1: is doing specifically? Can you get into that? Do you

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Speaker 1: mean in terms of like roadmap for the next few

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Speaker 1: months currently and and the near roadmap. Yeah, so we

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Speaker 1: we just recently rolled out a few features for completely

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Speaker 1: new users to enter the space. So over the summer

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Speaker 1: we created like we allow people to create an account

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Speaker 1: using their phone numbers. Now we have integrated deposits with

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Speaker 1: how haven't announced that yet, but now you can buy

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Speaker 1: from Zeri and you can buy cryptocurrencies right away. So

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Speaker 1: these are the things that will make the experience much better.

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Speaker 1: So you can just start off with the area and

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Speaker 1: without leaving um to get either for instance. But then

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Speaker 1: now we want to focus on more sophisticated financial products,

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Speaker 1: products that are already available on the market. So we

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Speaker 1: we want to have different things like set protocols, beauty

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Speaker 1: swap pools and use swap pools is coming next to

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Speaker 1: be viewed within zerin so you don't need to jump

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Speaker 1: into like five different applications to understand how your patrol

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Speaker 1: you is looking like. So that would be all include

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Speaker 1: UM so apart from said UM, we want to have

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Speaker 1: d I, d X lending integration and other protocols. And

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Speaker 1: that's what you said, set protocol And then did you

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Speaker 1: say swap protocol used swap pools, so SWA pools. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so used weapcols. I can go into detalum so use

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Speaker 1: allows people to deposit the quality to use swap pools

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Speaker 1: and pools amant for trading on union swab. So whenever

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Speaker 1: you make a trade for instance, a theorem to die

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Speaker 1: or theorem to use the see, you would need to UM.

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Speaker 1: You're using someone else's liquity for that to make a trade.

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Speaker 1: And UM liquidity providers they are rewarded UM with zero

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Speaker 1: point three percent of the token of the trade size.

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Speaker 1: And that liquidity can be provided from anywhere, so anyone

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Speaker 1: can provide the sequity and that's called um unic swab pools.

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Speaker 1: And we want to have that integrated as a financial

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Speaker 1: product within there, and so you can UM manager returns

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Speaker 1: on unit swap pools you can departed or withdraw liquidity

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Speaker 1: from there, um, et cetera. So that's uh so if

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Speaker 1: I was a user UM and I was using the

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Speaker 1: zero on UM app, I would then be able to

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Speaker 1: take my UM tokens and then provide them as liquidity

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Speaker 1: for this exchange. And by providing those tokens as liquidity,

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Speaker 1: I can make a percentage back. Yes, that's correct, we

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Speaker 1: used You're you're still betting on that's a bit more

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Speaker 1: complicated financial product because it's not necessarily profitable if the

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Speaker 1: price of one of the assets goes one way or another,

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Speaker 1: so there is a risk associated with that, but you

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Speaker 1: still earn on the productal feeds. So that Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: I mean I'm gonna earn the point three or whatever

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Speaker 1: that is UM. If the underlying asset goes up or down,

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Speaker 1: then I could lose on the asset, but I am

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Speaker 1: going to earn on the asset, right, Yeah, that's correct. Yeah, okay,

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Speaker 1: um okay. So that's that's an interesting way to do that.

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Speaker 1: So we can earn liquidity. So it's it's basically another

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Speaker 1: way to earn against our tokens, may be similar to

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Speaker 1: staking or through through lending. Yeah, but as I said,

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Speaker 1: it's a bit more risky because you need to understand

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Speaker 1: that if the price of the asset is fluctuating a lot,

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Speaker 1: Like the best case scenario is when the price of

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Speaker 1: finances goes up and then goes down, and then goes

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Speaker 1: up and then goes down again to the same where

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Speaker 1: you entered. You would just get the fees if if

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Speaker 1: the now the price is the same as you entered

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Speaker 1: the pool. But if the price was fluctuating, like for instance,

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Speaker 1: Easter going out a lot, then you would lose on

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Speaker 1: the school because it would be better just to hold either.

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Speaker 1: Oh gotcha, gotcha? So when when when, when you feel

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Speaker 1: that it's in a good range, it might be time

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Speaker 1: to take advantage of that, But in a in a

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Speaker 1: strong bowl trend, maybe it's not the best time to

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Speaker 1: take advantage of that. Yeah, that's right, okay. And then

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Speaker 1: so that's interesting the swap protocols, and do you think

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Speaker 1: over time, like lots of different application developers will will

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Speaker 1: integrate that in so that unit swap ends up with

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Speaker 1: a lot of liquidity. Is that the goal? Um? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so they originally the the idea of the protocol was

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Speaker 1: to open this up for a lot of people, so

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Speaker 1: everyone can deposit cuility. Right now, there's only unit swap

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Speaker 1: that allows people to deposit that, so only through union swap,

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Speaker 1: UM units or interface you can put theequility in or

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Speaker 1: through the smart contract itself UM. But we as we

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Speaker 1: will be integrating that so there will be more places

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Speaker 1: to depositive critity. Okay, and then you before the unitsap protocol,

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Speaker 1: you talked about the set protocol, and the set protocol

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Speaker 1: is a protocol that allows you to build certain sets

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Speaker 1: or like um different assets in certain like almost like

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Speaker 1: an index. Is that correct? Yeah, that's that's right. So

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Speaker 1: that was I believe that was their original idea to

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Speaker 1: just build similar to like E T s UM indexes.

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Speaker 1: But right now I think it has a much larger

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Speaker 1: use case, use cases and scenarios how it can be

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Speaker 1: applied because you can track different things, not just the

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Speaker 1: prices of assets, but you can track other things about

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Speaker 1: the assets that can be used to rebalance the portfolio.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, right now they have a few different ones UM.

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Speaker 1: So the sets are currently limited to what set protocol

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Speaker 1: allows and allows people to create on on their website.

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Speaker 1: I think the few first ones for um ether bitcoin

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Speaker 1: or our right versa, and the ones that are trying

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Speaker 1: to capture the the heights of the market and the

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Speaker 1: lows of the market. So if it's like it's a

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Speaker 1: balancing set, so is this something where like you'll tap

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Speaker 1: into their sets and bring those onto your platform, or

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Speaker 1: you'll build your own sets. So we're not planning to

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Speaker 1: build our own sets full time being, so we will

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Speaker 1: be just helping people to manage their sets, get in

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Speaker 1: the area in itself, and it's all our our features

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Speaker 1: actually based only your feedback. So we're just collecting what

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Speaker 1: people are just requesting um from time to time to

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Speaker 1: implement within the area. So we are using that to

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Speaker 1: prioritize our features. Okay, all right, so what what what

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Speaker 1: other things are you putting in there? What about the

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Speaker 1: lending and borrowing? Yes, so right now we do support

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Speaker 1: make your do boring, but we don't support compound boring

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Speaker 1: and that's something that a few people ask and we're

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Speaker 1: looking to that. How how do we make it nice

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Speaker 1: and how do we make it where it could make

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Speaker 1: your dial as well, So this is definitely coming at

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Speaker 1: some point. Okay. Yeah, And on the compound finance side,

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Speaker 1: we have only landing right now, so you can put

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Speaker 1: your assets to earn interest, but you cannot borrow through there. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so we can put our assets on the platform. We

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Speaker 1: could maybe potentially use the set protocols to rebalance them

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Speaker 1: or take advantage of different ethere and bitcoin splits um

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Speaker 1: provide liquidity to the protocol, do some lending eventually maybe

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Speaker 1: doing some lending and borrowing. So it's kind of like

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Speaker 1: a all in one place to take advantage of all

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Speaker 1: these DeFi applications. Yeah, that's mainly right. Yeah, we just

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Speaker 1: wanted to make it simple so you can compare different rates.

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Speaker 1: So for instance, right now, like there's only one boring

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Speaker 1: protocol Maker Dial, but then once we have compounds, you'll

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Speaker 1: be able to choose which one do you want to

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Speaker 1: go with to like Make or Dial. Rate is I

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Speaker 1: believe are around twenty and compound is I would say sixteen.

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Speaker 1: Haven't checked just yet, but around that. So you can

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Speaker 1: go ahead with compounds instead of Maker if you want so. Um,

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Speaker 1: when you look at the industry overall, so you you

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Speaker 1: kind of have this, you have a little bit of history.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've been doing this for several years. You

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Speaker 1: were you saw a lot of different I c O

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Speaker 1: s UM. You know, back in the back in that stage,

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Speaker 1: So you kind of have this perspective of the whole

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Speaker 1: market and ecosystem and at how this technology is advancing.

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Speaker 1: So I'm curious, um, what you think about defy specifically.

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously you're building in it, but um, do

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Speaker 1: you feel like this is maybe like the first kind

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Speaker 1: of application that we're going to see to really start

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Speaker 1: getting traction? Um? I think so yes. UM. So I was,

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Speaker 1: to be honest, like a round um mayor last year,

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Speaker 1: I was pretty disappointed by the overall state of the market.

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Speaker 1: So it was just I see it was only nothing

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Speaker 1: else was happening, No teams were delivering any products mainly,

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Speaker 1: and it was just very depressing. But then I went

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Speaker 1: to dot com and that was kind of like a

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Speaker 1: bit of fresh air because people I just saw the

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Speaker 1: emergence of defied space, that a lot of things are

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Speaker 1: actually happening behind the scenes. So that was very refreshing,

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Speaker 1: and we saw that Defy something that is very much

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Speaker 1: aligned with what we live in and how the space

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Speaker 1: de evolving. Remember, like all these ideas around the centralized finance,

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Speaker 1: they were kind of already in the air for a

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Speaker 1: long time. So since the origination of there, I would say,

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Speaker 1: but it was more I think, um kind of like

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Speaker 1: the space was trying to shift towards Web three and

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Speaker 1: that the that shift I think would take much longer time. UM,

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Speaker 1: and defies is something that we can already see the

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Speaker 1: benefits of right away. So that's why I think DeFi

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Speaker 1: space right now is very interesting for everyone to join.

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Speaker 1: Do you think right now? I mean, who is the user?

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Speaker 1: What's the use case for DeFi? Is this like a

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Speaker 1: retail trader investor? Or are this more like institutional grade

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Speaker 1: like products? Um, that's more I would say, it's it's

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Speaker 1: the first individual. So mainly people are U using defied

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Speaker 1: space for its simplicity if you know what what you're doing.

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Speaker 1: So in simplicity I mean, but not the RX of

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Speaker 1: it right now, but in terms of the speed and UM,

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Speaker 1: for instance, like getting a CDP is much is very

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Speaker 1: easy for a lot of people, and then than just

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Speaker 1: going to bank and trying to get the same loan

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Speaker 1: using your crypto as a collateral, so that that seems

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Speaker 1: impossible to to a lot of people. And UM, that's

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Speaker 1: that's actually pretty much true for many usictions. And that's

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Speaker 1: why fight it's like easy in that sense, and it's

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Speaker 1: much faster than traditional banking system as well. So that's

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Speaker 1: for instance, like earning time percent on your dollars. Is

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Speaker 1: it's a way to go, I would say for people

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Speaker 1: who know what they're doing. Yeah, so it's uh, it's

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Speaker 1: it's more for retail like individual traders and investors, but

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Speaker 1: probably that are more sophisticated that can really understand how

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Speaker 1: to leverage these types of learning applications. Yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 1: exactly right. And do you see that growing pretty fast?

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Speaker 1: I mean right now I think it's about what five

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Speaker 1: hundred billions or five million dollars or so is locked

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Speaker 1: up kind of like can die And that's is that?

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Speaker 1: Is that about the size of the ecosystem right now?

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Speaker 1: So I think it's about hundreds of die issued in total,

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Speaker 1: maybe in less than that's around seventy million of die issued.

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Speaker 1: The rest is like spread across different protocols. And yes,

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Speaker 1: this is mainly the sides of the system, but we

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Speaker 1: can and that's on lead the total value locked So

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Speaker 1: that's amount of fasts that are just sitting within the ecosystem.

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Speaker 1: We can also look at the trading wiliumes as well

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Speaker 1: and just in general, how how much people are transacting

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Speaker 1: and die for instance, so that would I think count

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Speaker 1: forwards dephy ecosystem too. Do you have any projections as

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Speaker 1: far as like growth in this space, like what are

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Speaker 1: you thinking there or what what are what are the

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Speaker 1: experts saying, uh that that's the complicated one. U we' well,

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Speaker 1: I think that's Um. What what I plan say is

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Speaker 1: that I believe the growth will be compounding. So I

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Speaker 1: mean not alluding to the complem partical, but looking at

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Speaker 1: the space, all these tools are coming coming together. So

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Speaker 1: these building blocks, as you sir, as you, as you

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Speaker 1: name them, the more of them are available, the more

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Speaker 1: use cases we will have. So we'll start with just

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Speaker 1: a few ones. It looks like compound has uh is

432
00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,480
Speaker 1: one of the most successful ones so far. Um and yeah,

433
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:05,880
Speaker 1: except the maker, but the Yeah, the proliferation of these

434
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,240
Speaker 1: different building blocks will drive the adoption faster and faster.

435
00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,480
Speaker 1: Now I'm curious, um, to find out a little bit

436
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:16,880
Speaker 1: more about about the company. I think in the past

437
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: you told me you guys kind of have like a

438
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:24,199
Speaker 1: remote team, right, yeah, so, um, you have a remote team? Uh,

439
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,119
Speaker 1: how does that work? Being a builder? So for I know,

440
00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:28,639
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different people that are working on

441
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 1: building different things. I mean, what are some of the

442
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:33,159
Speaker 1: challenge that you have being a remote team, do you

443
00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 1: think or or is that beneficial for you having a

444
00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:40,840
Speaker 1: remote team, It's has its own advantages and disavengages. Um.

445
00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:44,000
Speaker 1: In terms of the drawbacks of having a remote team,

446
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: the first one is actually, I would I would call

447
00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 1: it having everyone in sing It's just because when you

448
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:52,960
Speaker 1: are like a team of founders, for instance, sitting in

449
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 1: one place, you it's rate on different ideas and priorities

450
00:24:57,240 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: much faster than the rest of the team, and you

451
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:03,000
Speaker 1: would need to you constantly need to explain that to everyone, um,

452
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,640
Speaker 1: so you can keep them motivated to continue working. So

453
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,640
Speaker 1: that's one of the challenges. And of course associated one

454
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:13,400
Speaker 1: with that is you need to like team members should

455
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,679
Speaker 1: be very transparent and very that's like they should be

456
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,840
Speaker 1: self managers in a way, so they should be able

457
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 1: to work without anyone looking at them. So that's that's

458
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: a certain type of people, I would say, And it's

459
00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,359
Speaker 1: it's been sometime since we're like, we we spent some

460
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: time trying to find these people, and I think we

461
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 1: have them on the team right now. But there are

462
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 1: definitely a lot of advantages. Yeah, so you can be

463
00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: anywhere you can work. If you know how to work

464
00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,600
Speaker 1: in a remote way, you can work from anywhere and

465
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 1: that's that's great. That helps with your how do you

466
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,880
Speaker 1: how do you manage a remote team though? Like how

467
00:25:51,880 --> 00:25:53,960
Speaker 1: do you make sure they're working and doing their work

468
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: and doing the doing the work correctly or there's some

469
00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: tools that you use or is it just weekly check

470
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,520
Speaker 1: ups or how do you do that? Um, it's been

471
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: it's been through through a lot of iterations. But um,

472
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:06,960
Speaker 1: what we in terms of the tools that we use,

473
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,640
Speaker 1: it's of course Slack. We have three times a week

474
00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 1: we have a fool team sync in the morning so

475
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,679
Speaker 1: people can understand what kind of tasks they should be

476
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 1: working on. Of course we use some project issue at trackers,

477
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,879
Speaker 1: so like from Zenhab for instance, it's an extension to

478
00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:28,199
Speaker 1: be hob or trailer as well. Um, yeah, we use

479
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,840
Speaker 1: actually a lot of tools. I calculated that for the

480
00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:33,959
Speaker 1: last year I think in total it was like forty

481
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:41,199
Speaker 1: one different services in the company. Wow, that's incredible. And

482
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: So for someone who wanted to build a product um

483
00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:46,760
Speaker 1: and was thinking about doing a remote team, how would

484
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: you recommend they would start? Like is it a matter

485
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,200
Speaker 1: of like getting out, traveling to events to meet people. Um,

486
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 1: are there like job boards that people can use do

487
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,000
Speaker 1: you mean for um? For like speaking off the startup

488
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:01,119
Speaker 1: within the space, Like someone who wanted to build a

489
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 1: remote team to build up product in in the crypto space,

490
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:07,920
Speaker 1: I wouldn't recommend them starting with a remote team, so

491
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,919
Speaker 1: like whenever you can, I would just suggest that you

492
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:15,200
Speaker 1: can go with the team that you can think daily.

493
00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: But it was a necessity for us for a few

494
00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,840
Speaker 1: different reasons. But if if that's something that you definitely

495
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 1: have to do, I believe you just need to spend

496
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,359
Speaker 1: a lot of time, like first evaluating people when you're

497
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,520
Speaker 1: um when they're joining your company, so you need to

498
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: give them some time to adjust and like see and

499
00:27:35,280 --> 00:27:37,960
Speaker 1: constantly track their performance. Of course, of course everyone will

500
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:41,560
Speaker 1: have some you know, um complications with starting off, but

501
00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: if they are able to manage themselves, they they'll deliver

502
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 1: results quite consistently, so you you should be looking after that. Yeah,

503
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:54,440
Speaker 1: And and then you have a co founder as well,

504
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:56,800
Speaker 1: do you guys split the rolls up like one is

505
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:58,680
Speaker 1: like a technical co founder and one is more of

506
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 1: like the business co founder or how does that work?

507
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,240
Speaker 1: It's actually three of us. UM. So it's yeah, Alex

508
00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,640
Speaker 1: and a Demon and we caught my co founders UM.

509
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,160
Speaker 1: And yes, Alex is doing he's a CTO. He's doing

510
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: mainly all the technical stuff UM, including back in his

511
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,919
Speaker 1: mort contracts. But Demon is doing more business developments UM.

512
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,280
Speaker 1: And like speaking with our potential partners and I do

513
00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: I do the rest I got of things. Everything else

514
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 1: falls on you. Yeah, I've been reading some articles lately

515
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: they talked about like, you know, people should find a

516
00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 1: technical co founder UM if they're not if they don't

517
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 1: have that technical role. So I was just curious how

518
00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:38,720
Speaker 1: that overlaps. Are these guys that you've worked with since

519
00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 1: back in the waves days, like you've been with him

520
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: for a while, developed a relationships with them. Yeah, but

521
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. So Alex is the one actually that

522
00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: we worked with on this hackatone in the future and

523
00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,720
Speaker 1: other on helping waves UM. And but Deem was actually

524
00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:57,880
Speaker 1: employing us a very long time ago, both of us

525
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,200
Speaker 1: as just developers for his for the first previous company.

526
00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: Oh cool, and yeah we're old technical. That helps a

527
00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:09,280
Speaker 1: lot actually to just understand each other better. And like, no,

528
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:13,240
Speaker 1: they're knowing the constraints about implementing a certain feature. We

529
00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 1: don't need to, like, you know, explain that this cannot

530
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: be built in three days. We all know that. Yeah.

531
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,719
Speaker 1: Well having that patient um it's also good. I mean,

532
00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:24,040
Speaker 1: I guess you guys can get on the same page

533
00:29:24,040 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: to talk about like technical issues that you're having and whatnot. Okay, um, good. Well,

534
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 1: what what can we expect from Zerion coming down the future? What? What?

535
00:29:34,080 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 1: What do we where are you going to be? What's

536
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,960
Speaker 1: coming out? I know you have a big announcement you

537
00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: can't talk about now, but maybe they will be coming

538
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,360
Speaker 1: out soon. Yeah, we have a plan to talk about

539
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: our fundraising pretty soon, so that stay tuned for that. Okay,

540
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:52,760
Speaker 1: okay um, all great? Where where can people find out

541
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:56,320
Speaker 1: more about Zeroon? I would first suggest our website of course,

542
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 1: go and explore to our product page and try landing

543
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,000
Speaker 1: some die on compound or getting a loan and cdp um.

544
00:30:06,200 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: Then I would say you can go to our blog.

545
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: So that's blog that therein that Ayo, And I think

546
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 1: the major source of news for us it's Twitter right now,

547
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 1: It's like everyone is on Twitter, defied spaces on Twitter,

548
00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: so fellows arein Ayo could underscore. Yeah, we'll make sure

549
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: to link to all that in the show notes. I'm

550
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 1: curious you said go to the website and go ahead

551
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 1: and just start trying to do it alone or whatever.

552
00:30:28,320 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: Um is it? Is it free to use the service

553
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:32,239
Speaker 1: and then you take a you take a fee out

554
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: or do we pay like a monthly membership for that.

555
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 1: It's currently completely free, so you only pay for their

556
00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,720
Speaker 1: network fees, so that would be gas, so you would

557
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 1: need to have some ether on your account to start

558
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: using that the arian, but the rest is free. And

559
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:49,840
Speaker 1: then you guys, you guys have a revenue model where

560
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: you take a percentage of the transaction fees or something. Yeah,

561
00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: we were, I mean right now, we don't, and we

562
00:30:55,720 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 1: actually don't plan to have that in the near term

563
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,560
Speaker 1: for sure. We to be honest, I'm not a huge

564
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 1: fan of doing that way of revenue generation simply because

565
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:08,680
Speaker 1: it feels like grend costraction and people can do elsewhere

566
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,080
Speaker 1: were cheaper and I don't really like that approach. Um. Yeah,

567
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:16,600
Speaker 1: I believe will be the better revenue model for us

568
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: will be actually providing more premium features that people can

569
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: access within the are in. So that's that's something that

570
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,360
Speaker 1: we are still considering and working. So I have like

571
00:31:28,440 --> 00:31:31,040
Speaker 1: a free model where you get some base features and

572
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,080
Speaker 1: then people can pay to subscribe to like more advanced features. Yeah,

573
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: I believe that's the right approach. So for instance, more

574
00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 1: sophisticated accounting for your DeFi portfolio, for the tools for

575
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:46,719
Speaker 1: instance that only people who are very sophisticated use UM.

576
00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe some financial products that are not

577
00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,200
Speaker 1: for everyone for sure. So that's that's the things that

578
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:58,160
Speaker 1: I think we you should be charging for UM because

579
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,640
Speaker 1: these are actually premium features and up just for basic transaction,

580
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: trying to make people use us simply because our their

581
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,000
Speaker 1: face is better, right, yeah, I mean especially if they

582
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: can just go go directly to those platforms. It makes sense.

583
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 1: All right, great, well, thank you. Sounds good. I'm gonna

584
00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 1: go ahead and make sure we linked to all that

585
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,520
Speaker 1: stuff in the show notes. Everybody can go follow up

586
00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: and and learn more about ZERI on and it's definitely

587
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:21,720
Speaker 1: something I'm gonna be going to play around with and

588
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:24,680
Speaker 1: experimenting with and uh keeping an eye on. Well, thanks

589
00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,880
Speaker 1: for taking the time. Hey, if you like this episode

590
00:32:27,920 --> 00:32:31,120
Speaker 1: of the Market Disruptors podcast, please help us take this

591
00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:33,720
Speaker 1: to the top of the podcast charts. Just please do

592
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,440
Speaker 1: me a favor and rate, review and subscribe. Taking fifteen

593
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: seconds to just leave a quick review goes a long

594
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: way and helping us reach more people and disrupt more markets.

595
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you listening and I'll see you next

596
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: time on the Market Instructors podcast