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Speaker 1: What are we learning about Jodi Arius's life behind bars?

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Speaker 1: Well a lot. I hope you're sitting down. Jody Arius

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Speaker 1: convicted in the murder of her lover, Travis Alexandra, even

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Speaker 1: converting to Mormon, the Mormon religion to please her lover,

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Speaker 1: Travis Alexander, a devout Mormon. He ends up dead, his

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Speaker 1: body decomposing in the shower stall with about twenty eight

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Speaker 1: to twenty nine stab wounds. Nobody was ever sure how many,

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Speaker 1: because of overlapping stab wounds and a gunshot wound to

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Speaker 1: the head in the prime of his life. Why Although

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Speaker 1: the state doesn't have to prove motivation, it was speculated

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Speaker 1: because he insisted on breaking up with her and dating

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Speaker 1: a new woman, actually planning a trip with a new person.

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Speaker 1: But as I said, it ain't over yet right now

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Speaker 1: an appeal hangs in the balance with Joe the areas

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Speaker 1: as we learned disturbing new information regarding Jody Arius spending

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Speaker 1: the holidays with her boyfriend behind bars. What clime stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace? What's going on? Um? Our friend of

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Speaker 1: ours is dead in his bedroom. We hadn't heard for

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Speaker 1: a while. We think instead his roommates just going in

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Speaker 1: there and so they bought some blood. I didn't know

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Speaker 1: when that. I can give you the song to someone

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Speaker 1: who went in there. Yes, please, Hello, Hi, So what's

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Speaker 1: going on? He's dead. He's in his bedroom in the shower. Okay,

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Speaker 1: how did this happen? Do you have any idea? We

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Speaker 1: have no idea. Everyone's been wondering about him for a

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Speaker 1: few days. She said that there's blood, So is it

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Speaker 1: coming from his head? Did he it's all over the place?

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Speaker 1: Hold on just a moment. Okay, you're a good friend

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Speaker 1: of travissam. Okay. Has he's been depressed it all? Thinking

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Speaker 1: about geting suicide anything like that. I don't think he's

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Speaker 1: been being that. He's been really depressed because he broke

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Speaker 1: up with this girl and he was upset about that.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think he would actually kill himself over that.

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Speaker 1: Has he been threatened by anyone recently? He hasn't. Has

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Speaker 1: an ex girlfriend that's been bothering him and following him

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Speaker 1: in flashing tires and things like that. And you know

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Speaker 1: the ex girl friend Sam m His her name is Jody.

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Speaker 1: Jody Arius is her name, and she's sitting behind bars

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Speaker 1: right now on Murder One with me An all star Panel,

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Speaker 1: Kirk nurmi Arias former defense lawyer at trial, author of

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Speaker 1: Trapped with miss Arius on Amazon. Bobby to Come, former

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Speaker 1: special Asian FBI star of Facebook series Curse of Acricord.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Karen Start renowned psychologists joining me out of Manhattan

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Speaker 1: at Karen Stark dot com. Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,

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Speaker 1: but right now to investigate. A reporter with Radar Online

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Alexis terres check. Alexa's not only have you

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Speaker 1: uncovered that she's spending weekends and holidays with her former lover,

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Speaker 1: but that she actually has documented in writing her desire

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Speaker 1: to get pregnant behind bars to mitigate her sentence. Right now,

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Speaker 1: her appeal is hanging in the balance. Two claims that

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Speaker 1: I know of, one that her prosecutor, Martinez created a

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Speaker 1: circuslike atmosphere, and that the media created a circuslike atmosphere,

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Speaker 1: including myself. So, alexis are there any other claims on appeal?

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Speaker 1: That's the gist of it. They have many instances where

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Speaker 1: they say that one Tinez, the prosecutor, had done things.

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Speaker 1: You know, he had his picture taken on the front

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Speaker 1: steps of the courthouse with fans. They they claimed he

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Speaker 1: allegedly had an affair with a woman who was connected

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Speaker 1: with a juror who was released. What wait wait waite

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Speaker 1: right there claims that prosecutor lead prosecutor has an am

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Speaker 1: as Martinez had a relationship with a jurar. Wasn't that

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Speaker 1: jurar released from the jury at the time? It was?

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Speaker 1: It was not with the juror. It was, yes, the

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Speaker 1: juror was released. It was with somebody that the juror. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so that he was getting information third hand, but that

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Speaker 1: has never been I still want to emphasize on this

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Speaker 1: allegedly because even though there are lots of blogs and

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Speaker 1: people that say that this has never been anything that

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Speaker 1: Martinez has admitted to, or that it's another claim, just

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Speaker 1: like Kirk Nurmi, the attorney and author, has said about

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Speaker 1: some of Arius's clients aimes that they were claims. Has

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Speaker 1: there ever been substantiation regarding Martinez. No. You can see

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Speaker 1: there is video of him on the front steps of

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Speaker 1: the courthouse getting people wanted his autograph, but nothing. I

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Speaker 1: don't care about that Beside the court. There's nothing wrong

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Speaker 1: with an autograph or a photo. I'm talking about anything

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Speaker 1: that would affect the jury to the state kept saying.

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Speaker 1: During the appeals hearing, they were saying none of this.

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Speaker 1: They pulled that jury over and over and over. They

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Speaker 1: kept asking the jury, have any of you had any

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Speaker 1: contact with anybody as anything affecting you? And the jury

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Speaker 1: said no, And they said, this is fundamentally our system,

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Speaker 1: our jury system. We trust these people. They take their

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Speaker 1: jobs very seriously and they did their jobs. They were

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Speaker 1: not influenced by the media. While the rest of us

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Speaker 1: were on television all across the nation, probably all across

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Speaker 1: the world, talking about this and covering this from inside

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Speaker 1: the courtroom, these people were not paying attention to that.

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Speaker 1: They were paying attention to Jody's lies and that they

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Speaker 1: did not believe what she said. They had no problem

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Speaker 1: convicting her. It was a very quick decision. Well, I'm

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Speaker 1: just wondering how much evidence there is of these climbs

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Speaker 1: supporting these climbs psychlists and our friends at Phoenix ABC fifteen.

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Speaker 1: This is John Geneva. Now, a major theme in her

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Speaker 1: argument was that Martinez routinely took statements or words out

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Speaker 1: of context, then brought them up in a way later

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Speaker 1: that could have an impact on the jurors. Now in

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Speaker 1: terms of the alleged media circus in this that was

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Speaker 1: the words that Arius' attorneys have used for some time now.

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Speaker 1: She was asked by this three judge panel about how

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Speaker 1: much Jodi Arias contributed to that as. She said that

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Speaker 1: Jody only gave one er excuse me, two interviews before

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Speaker 1: she retained counsel, but one interview on the day that

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Speaker 1: she found out she was eligible for the death penalty.

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Speaker 1: Now again, write at about ten thirty they switched. An

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Speaker 1: attorney for the state stood up and said, really, all

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Speaker 1: that should be considered is what impact the jurors? What

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Speaker 1: if any misconduct actually made their way to that jury

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Speaker 1: box and had an impact on the verdict in this trial.

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Speaker 1: They don't dispute that there may have been misconduct as

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Speaker 1: alleged by Arius's team outside of the courtroom or even

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Speaker 1: inside the courtroom, But if it was not heard by

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Speaker 1: the jury, then they said, in some case law in

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Speaker 1: which they believe that this should not be overturned. What

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Speaker 1: matters is did any of this affect the jury's decision?

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Speaker 1: With me our renowned attorney, Jody Arius, former defense lawyer

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Speaker 1: author of Trapped with miss Arius on Amazon Curtain Army.

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Speaker 1: What were the claims of misconduct against veteran prosecutor Juan Martinez.

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Speaker 1: What were the claims against him? Well, there were many

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Speaker 1: claims against Juan Martinez, and this is consistent with Jody

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Speaker 1: Spattern right lie about me make accusations about men who

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Speaker 1: who've upset her, and Martinez is just delated. There's been

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Speaker 1: all sorts of allegations of him having affairs with bloggers

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Speaker 1: and possibly with a dismissed juror and things of that nature.

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Speaker 1: I haven't kept on it as well as Alexis has,

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Speaker 1: but I just see the continuing pattern of Jody attacking

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Speaker 1: men that she feels have done her wrong, and myself

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Speaker 1: and mister Martinez are just now in her sight. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Alexis terres Chuck. Following up on what kurtin Army has

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Speaker 1: just said, Alexis terres Chuck joined me from writer online

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Speaker 1: dot com. What specifically are the misconduct claims against prosecutor

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Speaker 1: Juan Martinez. I know she claimed he signed autographs and

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Speaker 1: took pictures. I mean, Alexis, when people come up to

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Speaker 1: you and want you to sign something or take a

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Speaker 1: picture of course you do it. Why would you be

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Speaker 1: rude to someone that has no bearing on the trial,

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Speaker 1: that's not a witness, not a jurar. That doesn't even

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Speaker 1: make sense. What are the other claims against Juan Martinez. Well,

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Speaker 1: they're very specific about the way he treated um. Mister

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Speaker 1: Nurme's co counseled Jennifer Wim and I remember during the

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Speaker 1: trial that they were pretty shocking statements as well. He

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Speaker 1: said something to her along the lines of I'm glad

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Speaker 1: I'm not married to you. That would be and I

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Speaker 1: think he said effing terrible. You know, he was very

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Speaker 1: derogatory towards her, and it was said in open court.

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Speaker 1: I don't believe it was in front of the jurors,

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Speaker 1: but he was very dismissive of her and it seemed

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Speaker 1: very misogynistic. But so they actually brought up very specific

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Speaker 1: points of how he was treating her, and the appellate

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Speaker 1: judges asked questions about that, and they said to the

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Speaker 1: to the state, you know, don't you think that these

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Speaker 1: are terrible things that this prosecutor has done. And they

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Speaker 1: would say, well, yes, but this didn't affect the jury

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Speaker 1: and whatever you might say. Now, let me understand something

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Speaker 1: What is it you're telling me wal Martinez did to Wilmot.

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Speaker 1: He said he never wanted to be married to her,

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Speaker 1: and I you know he was a It's something like

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Speaker 1: it would be disgusting if I'd be married you, And

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Speaker 1: I think, why did he say that in front of

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Speaker 1: the jury. I don't believe it was in front of it.

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Speaker 1: Then who cares? Exactly? Then? Who cares? I mean, kirk Nermy,

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Speaker 1: kirk Nermy, let me, let me just I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: that I agree with what Martinez may or may not

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Speaker 1: have said. But I'm talking about a murder conviction. I'm

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Speaker 1: talking about a reversal. I'm talking about a new trial.

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Speaker 1: I'm talking about reversal with prejudice. And there cannot be

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Speaker 1: a new trial if he doesn't like Wilmot and he

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Speaker 1: berated her or says something rude to her, if the

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Speaker 1: jury didn't hear it. In the legal world, nobody gives

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Speaker 1: a flying fig It doesn't matter. It only matters if

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Speaker 1: it affected the jury decision. Yes, no, kirk It only

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Speaker 1: to me, it only matters what the jury heard. Crime

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Speaker 1: stories with Nancy Grace, the thirty year old businessman and

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Speaker 1: devout Mormon, had been stabbed twenty seven times. His throat

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Speaker 1: slit so deep, he was almost decapitated, and he was

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Speaker 1: shot in the head. This is over, This is absolutely over.

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Speaker 1: You need to tell me the truths. On the tape,

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Speaker 1: Arius repeatedly denies she was at Alexander's house the day

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Speaker 1: of the crime, even after the ever patient detective confronts

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Speaker 1: her with racy pictures of her in his bed that day,

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Speaker 1: and even after he tells Arius her palm print was

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Speaker 1: found at the bloody crime scene. At one point the

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Speaker 1: detective leaves the room, Arius stretches in her chair. Then

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Speaker 1: he stretches the truth even more. The admitted killer really

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Speaker 1: turns on the tiers to my family, and I think

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Speaker 1: Travis's families. You're hearing our friends at ABC News. That

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Speaker 1: was Ryan Owens now Travis Alexander nearly decapitated, with Jodi

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Speaker 1: Arius insisting she wasn't there. But oh listen, but prosecutors

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Speaker 1: alleged Arius is a stalker who brutally attacked her x

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Speaker 1: in a jealous rage when she found out he was

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Speaker 1: seeing other women. Arius's defense, which is expected to start

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Speaker 1: next week, will have to overcome a mountain of forensic evidence,

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Speaker 1: including pictures taken on this camera found in Alexander's washing machine.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutors say Arias literally tried to wash that evidence away,

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Speaker 1: But on its memory card, detectives discovered not just those

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Speaker 1: racy photos from the couple's sexual encounter the day of

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Speaker 1: the murder, but a series of twenty shots of Alexander

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Speaker 1: posing in the shower. Minutes before his death. Prosecutors say

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Speaker 1: Arias put down the camera and picked up a knife,

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Speaker 1: stabbing her unsuspecting victim. The most damning picture comes after

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Speaker 1: the camera was dropped. It's too graphic for us to show,

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Speaker 1: but the jury saw a shot of what appears to

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Speaker 1: be Arias actually moving the bloody body. Prosecutors say she

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Speaker 1: was especially cold blooded after the crime. They played this

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Speaker 1: voicemail Areas left on Alexander's phone a few hours after

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Speaker 1: she killed him. Morbidly enough, she invited a man she

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Speaker 1: knew was dead to come visit her. Wow, she sounded

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Speaker 1: pretty chipper on that, and, according to her own statement,

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Speaker 1: as she was driving away from the scene of Travis

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Speaker 1: Alexander's murder, she actually saw blood on her hands. Even so,

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Speaker 1: managed to leave that bright and cheery voicemail message to

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Speaker 1: cover her tracks. The Digi camera Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,

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Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.

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Speaker 1: Joe Scott, why is it that so many killers suddenly

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Speaker 1: turn into neat nicks? They bleached the floor, they do

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Speaker 1: the laundry, They vacuum, they mop, they clean surfaces like

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Speaker 1: never before. What do you make of the digital camera

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Speaker 1: found in the wash with the sheets and how was

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Speaker 1: it used at trial? Yeah? I think that her idea, Nancy,

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Speaker 1: was to try to take this camera and subject it

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Speaker 1: to detergent obviously the water the washing, in order to

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Speaker 1: destroy any kind of digital evidence that would have been there.

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Speaker 1: Of course, we know that that's not the case. There

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Speaker 1: were an number of images that were still left behind.

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Speaker 1: I think the police did a fantastic job and the

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Speaker 1: technicians in the lab of recovering these, because they did

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Speaker 1: recover them, and we were able to appreciate them even

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Speaker 1: you know, I remember you and I covering this trial.

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Speaker 1: Appreciate them from trial and you could make out detail.

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Speaker 1: What was really interesting about this, Nancy, is that they

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Speaker 1: were able to recover these tom stamps, and it kind

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Speaker 1: of measured this thing out and you could get an idea,

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Speaker 1: a sense for what was going on. I've always thought

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Speaker 1: that she kind of got him into that shower. They're

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Speaker 1: already in kind of a frisky mood. Maybe they've had

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Speaker 1: a fight. She's trying to lull him into a sense

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Speaker 1: of security. She begins to take photos of him. It's

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Speaker 1: really sad. You can actually see I still remember to

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Speaker 1: this day of him kind of looking over his shoulder

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Speaker 1: in one of these photographs, probably the one right before

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Speaker 1: she began burying that knife in his back, and he

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Speaker 1: looked so innocent. He's looking into her eyes, into the

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Speaker 1: eyes of the camera, if you will, and she snaps

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Speaker 1: that shot of him, and it really tells a lot

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Speaker 1: about her. I've often thought of Jodi Arius is like

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Speaker 1: a praying manness. You know, one of these female praying

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Speaker 1: mannas is that after they mate, they kill their mate,

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Speaker 1: they literally cut the head off of the mate and

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Speaker 1: cannibalize their bodies. She's not too far removed from that.

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Speaker 1: She's very scary indivigil and as it turns out, Travis

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Speaker 1: Alexander is not the only man Arius photographed in the shower. Listen, sir,

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Speaker 1: could you introduce yourself to the jury police. On day

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Speaker 1: one of her defense, Tuesday, Arius's attorneys called an ex

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Speaker 1: boyfriend she dated before Travis Alexander, the man she now

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Speaker 1: admits she's stabbed and shot in June of two thousand

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Speaker 1: and eight. Arius says she killed the thirty year old

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Speaker 1: Mormon businessman in self defense. I know, because we were

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Speaker 1: in love. He didn't want his face shown publicly. But

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Speaker 1: Daryl Brewer told the jurors he dated the much younger

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Speaker 1: Areas for four years. They even bought a house together,

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Speaker 1: and the divorce dad says she was great with his son.

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Speaker 1: Was a very responsible, caring, loving person. Did you ever

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Speaker 1: see Jody at jealous towards women that you came in

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Speaker 1: contact with. No, But on cross examination, Brewer may have

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Speaker 1: done damage to his ex girlfriend's case. He told the

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Speaker 1: prosecutor Arius took a nude picture of him in the shower.

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Speaker 1: Remember she snapped these photos of Travis Alexander in the

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Speaker 1: shower seconds before prosecutors say she started stabbing him. Ouch.

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Speaker 1: That's ABC News reporter Ryan Owen speaking to Kurt Narmy Arias,

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Speaker 1: former defense attorney, author of Trapped with miss Arius Monday

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Speaker 1: morning quarterbacking. You probably thought it was a good idea

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Speaker 1: to call this guy who had dated her for four years,

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Speaker 1: that she was never jealous, that she never pulled any

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Speaker 1: of the antics she pulled with Travis Alexander. But then

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Speaker 1: on Cross it comes out she took naked photos of

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Speaker 1: him too in the shower, verging on a similar transaction

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Speaker 1: or course of conduct. I doubt Aris expected that to

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Speaker 1: come out on the stand cur well Monday morning, quarterbacking,

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Speaker 1: I would have ran away when my boss tried to

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Speaker 1: hand me to file at the Public Defender's office. That

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Speaker 1: would have been the smart move. But to your question, look,

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Speaker 1: as an attorney, I don't go back in second guess.

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Speaker 1: We had to humanize miss Arius and that's the best

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Speaker 1: we could do. Is it true that Jodi Arius actually

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Speaker 1: called police within hours of the murder, asking for information

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Speaker 1: and asking detectives to keep her sex relationship with Travis confidential?

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Speaker 1: Did that happen, Kurt Nermy yes, Detective Flora as the

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Speaker 1: lead detective on the case. She had a conversation with

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Speaker 1: him within a couple hours after his arrival on scene,

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Speaker 1: which was early that next morning, I believe, and they

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Speaker 1: had a conversation that he recorded and that was played

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Speaker 1: into during the tribe. But my question is my next

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Speaker 1: question Kurt Nrmy is wouldn't that be drawing attention to herself?

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Speaker 1: And it seems like she's worried about her relationship becoming

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Speaker 1: public when Travis has been brutally murdered. I mean, to me,

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Speaker 1: that's putting up a billboard on Fifth Avenue. I did it? Well, Look,

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Speaker 1: I think that was certainly something that signaled to Detective

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Speaker 1: Floris that this was a person that was on his radar.

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Speaker 1: Keep in mind, at that point in time, people were

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Speaker 1: approaching either officers or Detective Flores himself mentioning miss Arius's name.

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Speaker 1: That's why she probably felt compelled to reach out and

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Speaker 1: control the damage. I guess crime stories with Nancy Grace

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Speaker 1: in the bath, oh oh, when we took a bath together,

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Speaker 1: that was that was surreal, like honestly, and I think,

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Speaker 1: I mean maybe the candlelight, some bubbles all had something

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Speaker 1: to do with it. But you were amazing. You made me, seriously,

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Speaker 1: you made me feel like a goddess. Like I wasn't

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Speaker 1: saying you were like worshiping me, but you were. You

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Speaker 1: made me feel like I was the most freaking beautiful

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Speaker 1: woman on the whole planet, right, I so felt like

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Speaker 1: I was the goddess and so aside from all those warm,

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Speaker 1: fuzzy feelings, but like it was, it was so sexy

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Speaker 1: and it was so hot and oh gosh, okay, that

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Speaker 1: could go on and on and on. That is a

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Speaker 1: phone sex tape that was played in court, Jody Arius

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Speaker 1: and murder victim Travis Alexander getting hot and heavy over

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Speaker 1: the phone. The relationship and the trial was sex charged

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Speaker 1: to doctor Karen Start, psychologist. You can find her at

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Speaker 1: Karen Start dot com. You and I lived through the

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Speaker 1: trial together and covered it together, met there at the

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Speaker 1: courthouse and you joining me from New York. Karen, it

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Speaker 1: seems to me that Travis Alexander for a period of

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Speaker 1: time was just blinded by the crazy sex he was

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Speaker 1: having with Jody Arius, and he was, I guess, blinded

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Speaker 1: to who she really was. Then when he came out

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Speaker 1: of his fog, he broke up. How does that work, Karen?

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Speaker 1: Somebody like Jody is extremely a feeling she's created. She

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Speaker 1: can come up with all kinds of scenarios. She can

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Speaker 1: make him feel we can see that, right, she's wonderful liar,

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Speaker 1: and she could make him feel like he's the best

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Speaker 1: person in the world, which she can't hide who she

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Speaker 1: really is, her true person, and so she becomes suspicious.

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Speaker 1: She starts to go through everything that he owns, and

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Speaker 1: he begins to realize that despite the excitement that she's created,

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Speaker 1: there's something off about her. That's when it really becomes

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Speaker 1: a problem Nancy, because it's like quicksand she's sucking him

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Speaker 1: in and she can't extricate himself from this relationship. Amazing

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Speaker 1: how she could hide her true nature for so long.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to this. So, yeah, the timeline we

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Speaker 1: broke well, it was kind of a mutual thing, but

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Speaker 1: I sort of more broke up with him. Um, and

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Speaker 1: it was hard to do because I really loved him,

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Speaker 1: but I just realized that without trusting had anything and

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Speaker 1: I violated. This is that the main reason you guys

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Speaker 1: broke up is to trust and trust. I think that

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Speaker 1: there's not not that the relationship was unhealthy because of

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Speaker 1: the sexual activity, but just that you guys couldn't trust

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Speaker 1: each other. I think that and this doesn't make it right.

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Speaker 1: I think that, you know, being a convert, you know

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Speaker 1: I've had I've I've been I've had a couple of

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Speaker 1: serious relationships before where I was where I was into

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Speaker 1: both a few people and it's kind of silly, but

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Speaker 1: I used to always joke that regardless of what the

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Speaker 1: Bible says, and yes I'm Christian, I just lived my

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Speaker 1: life by the ten Commandments and that's like, those are

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Speaker 1: my roles, da dat. You know that'll shut not this

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Speaker 1: or that, But it doesn't say that. So I just

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Speaker 1: used to joke about that. Alexis terres Chuck, investigative reporter,

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Speaker 1: writer online dot com. You recall how all of his

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Speaker 1: friends came forward to say, we knew at the get

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Speaker 1: go he had snakes in her head, and we begged

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Speaker 1: Travis not to see her. They could see it. He couldn't. Well,

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Speaker 1: they were not having sex with her. Travis was having

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Speaker 1: sex with her, So I think that was what he

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Speaker 1: was very much enjoying. And that was outweighing the crazy.

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Speaker 1: And there was tons of crazy. You know. There was

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Speaker 1: a party in this house one night and she's like

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Speaker 1: hid under the Christmas tree. She climbed in through a

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Speaker 1: doggy door in his house. Okay, please stop, please stop,

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Speaker 1: please stop. Right there, I forgot about the hiding under

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Speaker 1: the Christmas tree. Please tell the listeners about Jodi Arias

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Speaker 1: hiding under Travis Alen Sanders Christmas tree. Because I don't

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Speaker 1: care how great I thought a guy was, he'd be

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Speaker 1: out the door. I would tell him to take the

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Speaker 1: patent turner pat in the street and turn the corner.

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Speaker 1: If he got up and hid under the Christmas tree

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Speaker 1: during my Christmas party, oh yes I would. What happened, Alexis,

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Speaker 1: Travis was having a Christmas party and for some reason

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Speaker 1: Jody was high behind the tree, kind not even behind

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Speaker 1: the tree leg underneath the tree during the party. It

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Speaker 1: was very weird, and everybody there noticed. Did nobody said anything,

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Speaker 1: and but it was like she wasn't welcome at the party,

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Speaker 1: but she didn't want to leave. It's truly probably the

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Speaker 1: strangest thing of the whole case to me, other than

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Speaker 1: the fact you know that she slid her throat shott

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Speaker 1: on the forehead and stabbed him twenty nine times. Okay,

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Speaker 1: wait a minute. According here in the studio with me,

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Speaker 1: Jackie Howard, she broke in his home to vacuum his floor.

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Speaker 1: You know, somebody wanted to break into vacuum and clean

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Speaker 1: my house. I think I'd be okay with that. They'd

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Speaker 1: leave immediately after. But what about that, Alexis terrest Chuck Again.

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Speaker 1: That's a fun fact about Jody Airis. I had forgotten.

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Speaker 1: Did she break in Travis's home to vacuum? Yes, she did.

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Speaker 1: She broke in and she cleaned up the house, which

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Speaker 1: is also why after she killed Travis, she knew where

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Speaker 1: all the cleaning supplies were and that's why that house

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Speaker 1: was spick and span clean. His roommates didn't even know

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Speaker 1: anything was up for three days because the house looked

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Speaker 1: so spotless, there were no signs of anything. She had

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Speaker 1: cleaned the floor, she cleaned up any trace of blood,

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Speaker 1: dumped everything in the washing machine, and I guess blessed

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Speaker 1: those bachelor boys hearts that didn't do any laundry for days,

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Speaker 1: and so they didn't even find the bloody sheets and

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Speaker 1: the camera in the washing machine for days. But the

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Speaker 1: reality is, Joseph Scott Morgan, forensics expert, to get rid

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Speaker 1: of DNA evidence, you've got to use something like a

408
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,080
Speaker 1: myriadic acid and detergent is not going to do the trick. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: sometimes even you know, even Bleach will not do the trick.

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you something else, And Nacy, she may

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Speaker 1: have cleaned up the rest of the house, she didn't

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Speaker 1: do much of a job in his bathroom though, if

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Speaker 1: you remember, there was there was a significant blood spatter

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Speaker 1: that was left behind, blood stain that was left behind

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Speaker 1: on his sink where it was indicative of him having

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Speaker 1: watched himself die. You know, we go back to you know,

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Speaker 1: him seeing himself, you know, him being photographed by her.

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Speaker 1: But he literally put his hands on that sink. There's

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Speaker 1: actually contact trace blood that's left on the sink that

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Speaker 1: appears where he placed his hands. He coughed and aspirated

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Speaker 1: blood on the surface of the sink, and then he

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Speaker 1: tried to make his way down the hallway away from

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Speaker 1: the shower Nancy, and he left trace evidence along there.

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Speaker 1: There was actually a large stain in the carpet where

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Speaker 1: I believe this is where I believe that she had

426
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:44,080
Speaker 1: taken this knife. She essentially straddled his back around his

427
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,680
Speaker 1: neck and then really used a tremendous amount of force

428
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: to cut his throat, cut his throat to the point

429
00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: where people had mentioned he was almost decapitated. I wouldn't

430
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,159
Speaker 1: go that far, but it was a deep decut. And

431
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,040
Speaker 1: then afterwards, and I believe this was post more of

432
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: she shot him in the head. Uh. There was no

433
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:07,120
Speaker 1: hemorrhage in that wound track, So this is a classic

434
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:10,719
Speaker 1: case of overkill. But then she takes his body and

435
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 1: drags it back down the hallway and places it in

436
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,480
Speaker 1: the shower. This took a tremendous amount of effort, and

437
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: this was not clean enough. Climb stories with Nancy Grace

438
00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:50,600
Speaker 1: stand some twenty seven times, and I don't know who

439
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:56,280
Speaker 1: do you think of them? I have no idea. Do

440
00:28:56,360 --> 00:28:58,440
Speaker 1: you think that it was a random thing of somebody

441
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: that knew him? This is a guy that you were

442
00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: pretty close to. This was a guy I was close

443
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:06,720
Speaker 1: to at a time when we were really trying to

444
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: move apart from each other. So I mean, there were

445
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 1: certain details about his life that I never did know about,

446
00:29:13,360 --> 00:29:16,360
Speaker 1: and there are even more details that I did not

447
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: know about, as as well as details about my life

448
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,640
Speaker 1: that he didn't know about because I had moved on.

449
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,720
Speaker 1: I had moved to California, so we were making a

450
00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 1: sincere effort to grow apart and to be apart and

451
00:29:29,200 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: to move on. But nonetheless, he did remain a close

452
00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 1: friend of mine. And I just can't begin Kirk Nermy,

453
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:42,040
Speaker 1: It just everybody Kirknrmy with me a special guest arias,

454
00:29:42,120 --> 00:29:46,240
Speaker 1: former defense law your author of Trapped with miss Arius

455
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 1: on Amazon, Kirk, it just occurred to me, all the

456
00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 1: hours and hours and hours you spent with Arius alone

457
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:59,080
Speaker 1: and with the other defense member team members, When you

458
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: look back on that and you remember looking right into

459
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:10,240
Speaker 1: her eyes, what feeling, if any, did you get? I

460
00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 1: think it was it was a disconnection. I mean, I

461
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,840
Speaker 1: certainly was not someone that I wanted to connect with.

462
00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:17,800
Speaker 1: It was a job that I was ordered to do

463
00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:21,400
Speaker 1: by the court, and that's what I did. That's what

464
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,560
Speaker 1: I focused on. I didn't focus on the individual and

465
00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:29,040
Speaker 1: who she was. Bobby to come former special Asian FBI

466
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:34,840
Speaker 1: star Facebook's watch series Curse of acacor Bobby. So many

467
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:41,400
Speaker 1: times with defendants and witnesses and once with a defense lawyer,

468
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,440
Speaker 1: I would look into their eyes and it would be

469
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:49,280
Speaker 1: like I was looking at a reptile in that they

470
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: seemed just cold blooded, like there was no feeling. There

471
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:55,960
Speaker 1: was nothing behind the eyes. It's just like dead back.

472
00:30:56,000 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: There no feeling, no emotion, no understand standing, no empathy,

473
00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:07,640
Speaker 1: much less sympathy, just blank And it's kind of like

474
00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,480
Speaker 1: when you look at your pet cat and they look

475
00:31:10,520 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: at you and you know, deep down inside, even though

476
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:16,440
Speaker 1: they're your pet, that if they were bigger than you,

477
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: they would totally eat you. Okay, that's whenever I look

478
00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: directly into Jodi Arias's eyes. That is the feeling I get, Bobby,

479
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:30,719
Speaker 1: I mean, Karen start the psychologists and probably describe it

480
00:31:30,760 --> 00:31:33,520
Speaker 1: better than I am. But you've dealt with so many

481
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 1: defendants and they just it looks like nothing phases them,

482
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 1: like they're playing a video game or something. And this

483
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 1: is one of those unique experiences to investigators or defense

484
00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 1: counsel and prosecutors have that the general public doesn't have.

485
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: I often talk to people about this that that that

486
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,400
Speaker 1: aren't in our business. That I'm saying, when you sit

487
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: across the table from someone that's evil, someone that's done

488
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,959
Speaker 1: something that you're accusing them doing, and you know that

489
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,920
Speaker 1: they've done it, and you get that disconnect, you get

490
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,719
Speaker 1: that lack of empathy, and you get that you know

491
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,800
Speaker 1: that that ability just to to do these in human

492
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: things to other human beings and not having an an

493
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 1: ounce of feeling about it. There is something that colors

494
00:32:17,320 --> 00:32:19,520
Speaker 1: our world. Right that have been in that, and I

495
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 1: try to impart that to some audiences sometimes and you

496
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 1: just it's very difficult to convey that feeling that we

497
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 1: have because we've sat across from evil Um to the

498
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 1: general public, because they've and thankfully so, they've never had

499
00:32:34,920 --> 00:32:38,280
Speaker 1: to come across somebody like that in their lifetime. But

500
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:41,240
Speaker 1: when you do, you never forget it, you know. To

501
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 1: Alexis Torez Chuck, investigative reporter, writer online dot Com, Alexis Um,

502
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 1: I'm very happy to realize that you are someone else

503
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: that loves to look at commissary purchases and jailhouse menus.

504
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:04,280
Speaker 1: And I see that you have very carefully detailed what

505
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,719
Speaker 1: Jody Arius is buying behind bars. I do love it.

506
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,840
Speaker 1: I can't help it. It fascinates me to see, first

507
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 1: of all, what's available, in second what people are buying,

508
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:17,920
Speaker 1: specifically Jody, because she seems to have endless amounts of

509
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:21,360
Speaker 1: money to buy this stuff too. But the one thing

510
00:33:21,480 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: that really sticks out to me is that she every

511
00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:32,840
Speaker 1: month purchases a ten pack of razor blades. I don't

512
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:36,160
Speaker 1: know anything about I have not I'm not in the

513
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 1: prison in Arizona, so I don't know if these are

514
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: to shave her arms or her legs or what. But

515
00:33:41,160 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: I would think that the woman who stubs somebody twenty

516
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,520
Speaker 1: seven times and slit somebody's throat. Wouldn't get razorblades behind

517
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: bars like this seems like a threat, So that thing

518
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 1: stuck out to me the most. She also buys, you know, toothbrushes.

519
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,280
Speaker 1: She seems to have gained a little bit of weight

520
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,680
Speaker 1: because you buy clothes and she's buying a size medium

521
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: in some of her sweatshirts. But she also buys tons

522
00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: of food. I mean, she has sardines and cans, she

523
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,920
Speaker 1: has salmon flakes, she has Cheetah which I don't think

524
00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:17,080
Speaker 1: they're actually Cheeto brands, but she gets chips, and then

525
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:20,320
Speaker 1: she buys an acids. She has to buy toothpaste. It's

526
00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: a fascinating look into somebody's life. And I get a

527
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 1: lot of criticism for this though, even though people hate

528
00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 1: Jodi Arius, they say that this is really violating her privacy,

529
00:34:29,920 --> 00:34:32,400
Speaker 1: which I don't see. But that is something that people

530
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,400
Speaker 1: tell me. Well, I tell you this much. Whoever's in

531
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 1: charge of the prison system out there better take notices

532
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,239
Speaker 1: she's bloating up on razor blades, because I would not

533
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:47,640
Speaker 1: put anything past Jody Arius. Alexis. Where does her appeal

534
00:34:47,760 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: stand right now? It has been filed, there has been

535
00:34:51,280 --> 00:34:53,920
Speaker 1: a hearing where they've heard the appellate judges have heard

536
00:34:53,960 --> 00:34:58,040
Speaker 1: the arguments from Jody Arius' attorneys and from the state,

537
00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: and usually in Arizona, it seems like it takes about

538
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,400
Speaker 1: twelve weeks for the appellate court to hand down a

539
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:07,319
Speaker 1: decision about an appeal. We are at leek eight, so

540
00:35:07,360 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 1: we are in the final stretch of when we anticipate

541
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,439
Speaker 1: hearing it. I checked every single day in the court.

542
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 1: I know that you check, Nancy, and that your staff checks,

543
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: so we are expecting this to be any minute now. Alexas,

544
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,279
Speaker 1: what's your take on Jody Arius. Judy Arius is a psychopath.

545
00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: She you know because she spoke about you all the time.

546
00:35:27,080 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: I think she has called me personally crazy after I

547
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 1: wrote stories, literally sacks from the prison about her, called

548
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:39,000
Speaker 1: me obsessed with her. I am not obsessed with her.

549
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,399
Speaker 1: You are not obsessed with her. We are obsessed with

550
00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:44,760
Speaker 1: getting the truth and justice for people that were involved

551
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:49,240
Speaker 1: in this case, meaning Travis Alexander. She has a huge ego,

552
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:53,720
Speaker 1: even locked up behind bars, the world revolves only around

553
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:57,240
Speaker 1: Jody Arius. She was a liar, She was a proven liar.

554
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,040
Speaker 1: She was very sneaking, and she very methodically planned Travis

555
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 1: Alexander's murder. I'll always have our time in court together

556
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:09,200
Speaker 1: when she shot a bird at me. We'll always have Arizona,

557
00:36:09,880 --> 00:36:13,600
Speaker 1: my happy memories of Jodi Arias. But you know what,

558
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:16,520
Speaker 1: I have to say that I've met an American Idol,

559
00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:22,359
Speaker 1: because Jodi Arias did win American Idol. Behind bars, take

560
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:29,920
Speaker 1: a listen. Oh holy night, the stars are Bradley shine.

561
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: It is a nighte of our Dearsey Fancy Grace crime Stories.

562
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,880
Speaker 1: Signing off, goodbye friend,