1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:01,320 Speaker 1: Taking a Walk. 2 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 2: We were like the fish out of water. We were 3 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:05,720 Speaker 2: the sore thumb. I mean, if you looked at the lineup, 4 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,120 Speaker 2: you know, it was like Leonard Skynyrd and Genesis, and 5 00:00:09,160 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 2: we followed I swear somebody like Alabama, somebody that would 6 00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,840 Speaker 2: put up a big rebel flag behind them when they played. 7 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 2: People hated us so much they started throwing stuff at us, 8 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: but it was falling short because the distances were so great. 9 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:25,319 Speaker 2: They were hitting people in the back of the head, 10 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 2: back with trash and bottles and so the crowd we're 11 00:00:29,920 --> 00:00:33,160 Speaker 2: watching them scream at us, but they're starting to fight 12 00:00:33,280 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 2: with each other while we're playing, and there's the booing 13 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 2: after each song. 14 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Taking a Walk Podcast, Music History on Foot. 15 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: Buzz Night is your host, and on this episode we 16 00:00:46,200 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 1: have a rock Hall of Fame musician who has made 17 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:52,280 Speaker 1: his mark on generations as a founding member of the 18 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: band Devo. Jerry Cassoli joins Buzz Night for a unique 19 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 1: take on the band's history, the world we live in 20 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 1: and here's your virtual edition of Taking a Walk with 21 00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:04,920 Speaker 1: Jerry Cassali. 22 00:01:05,920 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 3: Well, Jerry, thanks for being on the Take of a 23 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,959 Speaker 3: Walk podcast. A virtual edition where would we be walking 24 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:14,920 Speaker 3: if we were walking together right. 25 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:19,840 Speaker 2: Now, Jesus, I don't know. Hopefully somewhere we both liked, 26 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: so it wouldn't be out my front door, actually where 27 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 2: I'd love it to be. Right now. We were up 28 00:01:29,160 --> 00:01:32,320 Speaker 2: in Napa, the town of Napa, and we were walking 29 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: through one of the vineyards up there, like Silverado Vineyards 30 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 2: or Judd's Hill, any of them, walking among the vines. 31 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,440 Speaker 3: I'm all in, Well, that's some of the best of 32 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 3: society right there, in your opinion, what's the worst part 33 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 3: of society today? 34 00:01:56,640 --> 00:02:02,120 Speaker 2: Well, the human mind itself or lack of it. You're 35 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 2: just watching something that's quote trumping our worst fears about 36 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,639 Speaker 2: de evolution. I think things have gone much further than 37 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:17,560 Speaker 2: we were satirizing and much darker, and it's not funny anymore. 38 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 2: And there's just this complete unraveling of logic and rational 39 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: reasoning ability in huge swaths of the population. And that's 40 00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 2: really the worst thing. It's human beings. The species is 41 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 2: losing it, and clearly, I mean it's on a global level, 42 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:46,320 Speaker 2: and it's just so disheartening that we're in what we're 43 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,519 Speaker 2: in the first quarter of the twenty first century almost 44 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 2: you know, one quarter of it gone and we're regressing. 45 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 2: You know, in the medieval times, when. 46 00:02:57,440 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 3: You think back to the terrible Kent State moment in 47 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:06,160 Speaker 3: your life, could you have imagined that it has gotten 48 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 3: to what it's gotten Like? 49 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 2: No, No, that's what I'm saying. You know, I thought 50 00:03:12,240 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 2: I was prescient, I thought I was so smart, but 51 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,959 Speaker 2: I didn't see this coming. No, this is a whole 52 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 2: other level. It makes what I went through with Kent State, 53 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 2: and what people went through during that period of cultural 54 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:34,399 Speaker 2: warfare and you know, student unrest and killings in Vietnam, 55 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,240 Speaker 2: it makes that look like kindergarten because this is big time. 56 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,680 Speaker 2: This is industrial strength filth. 57 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:47,960 Speaker 4: Boy, you said it. You said it well, Jerry. 58 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 3: If Steve Jobs were alive today, what do you think 59 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 3: his reaction. 60 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 5: Would be in terms of scrolling screen. 61 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 3: Addiction, all the things that to become part and problems 62 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:03,040 Speaker 3: in our world? 63 00:04:04,040 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 2: Right, it would be interesting to find out, wouldn't it. 64 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: I mean, since he was so innovative and always projecting 65 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 2: into the future so well, he might realize there was 66 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:20,960 Speaker 2: a need for almost a reset, Like you know, we've 67 00:04:20,960 --> 00:04:24,800 Speaker 2: gone too far in one direction. Let's just clear it out, 68 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:27,080 Speaker 2: like start over, Tabo Rosa. 69 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 3: You know, I heard somebody who went to the Consumer 70 00:04:30,680 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 3: Electronics Show in January out there in. 71 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 4: Vegas, right, they said that. 72 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:43,000 Speaker 3: Flip phones are probably coming back as a controllable device 73 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 3: when you think of you know, kids and everything. I 74 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:48,919 Speaker 3: thought that was kind of interesting. We're going back in time. 75 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:53,560 Speaker 2: Well, that makes sense, doesn't it. There's so much regression 76 00:04:54,080 --> 00:05:00,800 Speaker 2: and you know, retro reverse evolution, and let's put it 77 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:04,799 Speaker 2: that way. And it's kind of like those flip phones 78 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 2: are kind of like kids that discover turntables and vinyl. Right, 79 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:15,599 Speaker 2: it's thrilling to have something not so smart, have a 80 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 2: dumb phone and yeah, flip it open. You know, it's 81 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 2: kind of cool. 82 00:05:21,640 --> 00:05:21,840 Speaker 4: You know. 83 00:05:22,360 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 3: One of the saddest things I see when my wife 84 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 3: and I go out to dinner. You either see this 85 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 3: with couples who are together. You even see it with 86 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,360 Speaker 3: when they have a you know family, the kid there. 87 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:43,239 Speaker 6: Nobody talks to anybody, right, right, it's terrible. Well, people 88 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:49,680 Speaker 6: have lost the ability to have rational, intelligent conversations. And 89 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 6: I mean clearly we are addicted to these devices. It's 90 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 6: like the old experiments where they give a rat cocaine 91 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,240 Speaker 6: and the rat will keep hitting the lever for more 92 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 6: cocaine until it dies. It won't eat, won't do anything else, 93 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 6: It just keeps hitting that lever. So something about the 94 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 6: human brain and dopamine. These phones have done it. You 95 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 6: completely are reduced to an infant. 96 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:23,479 Speaker 2: And it's just it's the addiction to the the lights, 97 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:29,800 Speaker 2: the action, you know, the motion. There's really no information there. 98 00:06:29,839 --> 00:06:35,599 Speaker 2: It's just clearly mesmerizing, hypnotic and addictive. And that's what's 99 00:06:35,640 --> 00:06:39,320 Speaker 2: going on. And it helps people avoid conflict because they 100 00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 2: can regress into that and not have to interact with 101 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,720 Speaker 2: each other in a meaningful way. You'll watch people on 102 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 2: first dates do it. You know, they don't really want 103 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 2: to talk to each other. Why right, Yeah, And they'll 104 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 2: always pick restaurants where the restaurant's pumping really loud music, 105 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 2: so that there's really no way to talk anyway, you know, in. 106 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:09,720 Speaker 3: A world of I'm sorry, we're only five minutes in, Jerry, 107 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:15,840 Speaker 3: Na'm mentioning AI, but yeah you have to, yeah, and 108 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:23,240 Speaker 3: a world of AI and thinking about something you certainly 109 00:07:24,000 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 3: have spoken about going way back, misinformation. Right, where do 110 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 3: you go to get information that you can trust? 111 00:07:34,480 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 2: I don't know if there's any place you can go 112 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 2: for that, I'm always reading between the lines. I mean, Luckily, 113 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 2: when I was growing up in Ohio, the public education 114 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:51,120 Speaker 2: system was really good, I have to say that, So 115 00:07:51,320 --> 00:07:54,320 Speaker 2: I mean it really there was a strong reading program. 116 00:07:54,680 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 2: There was lots of emphasis on critical thinking logic like, 117 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 2: don't take things at face value. Let's look at this class, 118 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 2: Let's dissect what they're trying to tell us here and 119 00:08:07,960 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: see through it. So I was primed already, and now 120 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 2: I can't even I mean, sometimes there'll be segments on 121 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: BBC World News that approach more objective kind of information, 122 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:27,080 Speaker 2: the way you used to get TV when there were 123 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 2: only three network stations in the sixties. Right. Sometimes in 124 00:08:32,760 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 2: the Guardian, I'll read things that are intelligent and well written. 125 00:08:37,320 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 2: But other than that, I'm just constantly looking at all 126 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:46,359 Speaker 2: the junk, all the propaganda, all the disinformation, and filtering 127 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 2: through it, like in other words, drawing my own conclusions 128 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:55,960 Speaker 2: about what's really happening. Because there's certain assumptions you can make, 129 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:01,240 Speaker 2: Like anybody with a normal IQ knows that somebody's always 130 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:06,000 Speaker 2: trying to sell you something. This is capitalism something, somebody's 131 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,920 Speaker 2: always pushing something, right, So you've got to look at 132 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: where this information's coming from who owns that news station, 133 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:17,600 Speaker 2: what billionaire owns that newspaper? Why are they saying this? 134 00:09:17,679 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 2: Why did they hire that reporter to say this? Why 135 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:24,679 Speaker 2: are these news sources all like Google going for you? 136 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 2: Like you, you can't even get objective news. They figured 137 00:09:27,800 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 2: out your click patterns, and now you're only getting news 138 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: in your bubble because it'll you have to like re 139 00:09:36,520 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 2: take it back to top stories because it's always going 140 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: to go to for you. And suddenly all I'm getting 141 00:09:43,559 --> 00:09:48,679 Speaker 2: is ridiculous gossip pieces about the Rolling Stones, you know, 142 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 2: or Katy Perry. It's like, I don't want to know 143 00:09:51,880 --> 00:09:55,119 Speaker 2: this shit. It's not even you know, it's stupid. 144 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 5: Who shaped you to be so curious in your life? 145 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,360 Speaker 2: Well more than one person, but I can definitely remember them. 146 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: There were key people and they were all, to be honest, 147 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:16,680 Speaker 2: them except for one close friend. They were all teachers, 148 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:22,319 Speaker 2: like elementary school, high school, and college. They were all teachers, 149 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 2: and they were stand out people where you couldn't wait 150 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: for the next class. That's an experience. I think that's 151 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: pretty much gone for everybody. But we had outstanding educators. 152 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:41,040 Speaker 3: Was there one that was you know at the beginning 153 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:45,120 Speaker 3: that you think had you position for life as always 154 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 3: being curious or wasn't really a bunch of them? 155 00:10:49,640 --> 00:10:53,079 Speaker 2: Yeah? No, they were Like there was one elementary school 156 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:58,440 Speaker 2: English teacher who's female, I can't remember her name now. 157 00:10:58,840 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 2: And then there was a high school algebra teacher, believe 158 00:11:03,240 --> 00:11:09,800 Speaker 2: it or not, and he was amazing, mister Wagner. And 159 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:17,960 Speaker 2: then there were like two standout college professors, Philosophy's professor, 160 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 2: doctor Hoffman and this visiting professor Eric Matrum from King's 161 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,800 Speaker 2: College in London who came to Kent State University on 162 00:11:27,960 --> 00:11:34,880 Speaker 2: a two year whatever exchange sabbatical whatever it is, in 163 00:11:35,000 --> 00:11:40,600 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy and seventy one. Brilliant guy, and they set 164 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 2: you on the right path. It's like, here, read this book, 165 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,560 Speaker 2: go watch these movies. Then let's talk. 166 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,520 Speaker 3: Did you follow the protest singers of the day as 167 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:51,400 Speaker 3: you were growing up? 168 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:52,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. 169 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 5: Who were some of those that impacted you? 170 00:11:57,160 --> 00:11:57,280 Speaker 4: Well? 171 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 2: Of course I was just the right age to be 172 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 2: plunked into the center of that soup. I mean, I mean, 173 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:08,640 Speaker 2: besides the obvious Bob Dylan, there was Yeah. And now 174 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 2: I'm going to like start blanking on people here. 175 00:12:11,760 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 3: Of course I have one to ask you about and 176 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 3: maybe a little prompted Phil. 177 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:18,120 Speaker 4: Oaks pill Oaks. 178 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: I listened to Phil that he was his son was 179 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 2: about fifteen years ago starting to make it in the 180 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:32,240 Speaker 2: music business and had an uncanny voice and physical resemblance 181 00:12:32,240 --> 00:12:35,560 Speaker 2: to him, but then had this bizarre accident where he 182 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 2: died in a quarry or something after putting out his 183 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,480 Speaker 2: first record. And it was his father who was a 184 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:45,440 Speaker 2: famous protest singer, and I saw him the father in Washington, 185 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:47,000 Speaker 2: DC with Joan Biez. 186 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 3: Are you surprised that more musicians of today don't use 187 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:55,880 Speaker 3: their music to make a point and kind of have 188 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:58,840 Speaker 3: a version of protest movement of today. 189 00:13:00,160 --> 00:13:04,840 Speaker 2: I'm not surprised at all, unfortunately, No, it's it's endemic 190 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 2: of the whole society that you know, people just want 191 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 2: to put the blinders on, keep their jobs, go to 192 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: uh Starbucks in the morning and get their lattes. And 193 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 2: you know, musicians, they they they're all basically programmed to 194 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 2: sell out from the beginning if they can, if they're lucky, 195 00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: they'll sell out. They realize their only chance really to 196 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 2: make money is to get a song licensed in a 197 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 2: commercial or a movie, and other than that, try to 198 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: build build a big fan based touring and you're not 199 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 2: You're not going to build a big fan base if 200 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 2: you're if you're talking about issues, if your music has substance, 201 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 2: it's going to piss somebody off, you know, and so 202 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:56,520 Speaker 2: they avoid that. It's in other words, the biggest sin 203 00:13:57,040 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 2: right now in corporate culture in terms of the arts 204 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 2: content is anything that means anything like you stay away 205 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 2: from meaning. That's that's my advice. 206 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:16,800 Speaker 3: I think of you and certainly Devo as if you 207 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 3: could have been a marketing slash ad agency slash business consultancy, 208 00:14:25,360 --> 00:14:29,920 Speaker 3: So what would you have advised a failed industry so 209 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 3: they wouldn't fail? 210 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 2: I mean Devo. You know, what you saw Devo do 211 00:14:35,120 --> 00:14:37,280 Speaker 2: is the tip of the iceberg of what we were 212 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:41,720 Speaker 2: capable of and what we should have done. And I 213 00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:43,960 Speaker 2: can well, I try to imagine, like if Devo had 214 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,600 Speaker 2: come along now, you know, a devote for now wouldn't 215 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,359 Speaker 2: look or sound like Devo then, but given the tools 216 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 2: that people have now, they would actually have more agency 217 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 2: to get done what needed to be done. Like if 218 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:07,640 Speaker 2: we were coming along now, we would have our own 219 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: YouTube channel and we would and we would be like 220 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:19,040 Speaker 2: a multimedia concern that has many tentacles into many parts 221 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:25,080 Speaker 2: of the culture. So it's you know, lifestyle, politics, technology, 222 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:31,080 Speaker 2: and we have a way to show people that coherently. 223 00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 2: So we probably could have started making movies, you know, 224 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:41,480 Speaker 2: where we hadn't that means to do that, rather than 225 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:46,760 Speaker 2: something that was so expensive we couldn't do it. I think, yeah, 226 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,920 Speaker 2: I wish there was an equivalent for now of debot then, 227 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,920 Speaker 2: but we were in the Caveman era, you know, because I. 228 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 3: Do think you could have come up with something that 229 00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:03,400 Speaker 3: would have prevented this decline where now you see. I 230 00:16:03,400 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 3: think it's kind of sad and hysterical how you see 231 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 3: publications that are rescuing themselves because they now know how 232 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 3: to put the crossword puzzles together for their audience. 233 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: Exactly. Yeah, yeah, it's pretty disheartening. 234 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 1: We'll be right back with more of the Taken a 235 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 1: Walk podcast. Welcome back to the Taking a Walk podcast. 236 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:38,080 Speaker 3: You take back to artificial intelligence as a musician, what's 237 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 3: your take on it? 238 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:44,240 Speaker 2: Well, I think that we haven't even seen the beginnings 239 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,520 Speaker 2: of what can happen with AI. I think of it 240 00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 2: as a very exciting and dangerous tool like anything I think, 241 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 2: Like when Bowie talked about in the nineties when the 242 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:03,040 Speaker 2: digital era was taking off and the Internet was happening, 243 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,800 Speaker 2: and there was Napster and stuff, and he had a 244 00:17:05,840 --> 00:17:10,879 Speaker 2: lot of very intelligent impression visions of what was about 245 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 2: to happen, but he had a lot of caution too. 246 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:19,119 Speaker 2: And I'm thinking that AI is like that revolution times 247 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 2: one hundred. Like the dimensionality of AI and what's about 248 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 2: to happen is almost unfathomable. I can't predict exactly how 249 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:34,160 Speaker 2: creative people can use it as a tool, or how 250 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:39,280 Speaker 2: it's just going to completely warp what we consider to 251 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:45,359 Speaker 2: be reality, because already we've lived through this attack on 252 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 2: logic and facts and what's true. So there's been a 253 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 2: war on truth previous to AI, constantly from the right wing, 254 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 2: constantly from the trum Trumpsters. That just got people ready 255 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 2: for what AI can do in terms of just completely 256 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:10,680 Speaker 2: creating fabricated landscapes of reality. It's got nothing to do 257 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 2: with what's really happening. It's such a dysfunctional, dangerous place now. See. 258 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,119 Speaker 2: I can see kids just staying in their rooms with 259 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 2: you know, Apple Vision pro heads things on and going 260 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 2: into some AI metaverse and never coming out of it. 261 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:36,199 Speaker 2: They'll live in their heads in this surreal fantasy, and 262 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,399 Speaker 2: they'll really just be eating junk food and with the 263 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:45,880 Speaker 2: doors locked to protect themselves from the outside environment, from violence, 264 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:46,560 Speaker 2: from pollution. 265 00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,240 Speaker 5: What's your take on the state of the music industry. 266 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:57,160 Speaker 2: You know, I don't know. I can't make any prognostications 267 00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 2: because I know that there's people out there making really 268 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:03,879 Speaker 2: good music, really interesting music. The problem is, at the 269 00:19:03,920 --> 00:19:07,480 Speaker 2: time in the culture that we were bursting onto the scene, 270 00:19:07,680 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 2: got our heads above the waterline and came up on 271 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 2: the radar, there was a system in place, no matter 272 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,720 Speaker 2: how negative you want to look at it, or how 273 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,399 Speaker 2: corrupt it may have been, where the cream rose to 274 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 2: the top. If somebody was good, somebody and our man 275 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 2: found them and put them out. They weren't missing things 276 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,680 Speaker 2: that were good. I have a feeling it's the opposite. 277 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:32,880 Speaker 4: Now. 278 00:19:33,240 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 2: It's like all the stuff you hear in the radio, 279 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 2: it's just direct hat shit. But there's all kinds of 280 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:47,160 Speaker 2: people out there making really innovative, creative things. But there's 281 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:53,840 Speaker 2: no appetite for innovation or creativity or originality in this culture. 282 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:57,359 Speaker 2: That's what I'm thinking. And so like my wife, who's 283 00:19:57,359 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 2: a lot younger than me, will play me stuff that, 284 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:05,159 Speaker 2: you know, because she spends time searching and aggregating and 285 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:09,040 Speaker 2: listening to as many as, like, I don't know, one 286 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 2: hundred or two hundred artists in a month, you know, 287 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,639 Speaker 2: checking out a couple songs each or whatever. And now 288 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 2: she's been an avid fan of King Gizzard and The 289 00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:26,720 Speaker 2: Wizard Lizard. And at first I thought, what the hell 290 00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,600 Speaker 2: is this about? I mean, god, you know, I thought 291 00:20:30,760 --> 00:20:33,520 Speaker 2: it was possibly kind of wanky, and then she had 292 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:39,399 Speaker 2: me listen to several of their releases over time, and 293 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:44,439 Speaker 2: there's nothing like this, right, there's nothing going on like this, 294 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 2: and there was nothing in the past. These guys can 295 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,800 Speaker 2: play any genre, they play it very well, they change genres, 296 00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:56,040 Speaker 2: they don't give a shit about having a style, and 297 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 2: they do it all really well. And they tend towards 298 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,919 Speaker 2: being a jam band, almost like The Grateful Dead, but 299 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,880 Speaker 2: they have songs, and they're completely entertaining and engrossing and 300 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:14,400 Speaker 2: excellent players. And there's a there's a there's an aesthetic 301 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:20,119 Speaker 2: there that's kind of egoless. It's really interesting. It's nothing 302 00:21:20,160 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 2: about rock stardom or prancing and preening. It's very incredible. So, 303 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 2: I mean, there's something like that, and what's interesting is 304 00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:33,159 Speaker 2: these guys get zero radio play to speak of, but 305 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:37,359 Speaker 2: they fill the Hollywood Bowl two or three nights, and 306 00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 2: they do international festivals, so clearly they reached a broad 307 00:21:43,240 --> 00:21:50,359 Speaker 2: audience all across Europe and the United States of twenty 308 00:21:50,400 --> 00:21:53,240 Speaker 2: somethings that are avid fans of them. 309 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:54,960 Speaker 4: So there is. 310 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,479 Speaker 2: Stuff like that going on. 311 00:21:57,680 --> 00:21:59,880 Speaker 5: Do you remember the first moment you knew you would 312 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 5: have some strong lifetime connection with music? 313 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 4: Sure? 314 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 2: I do. Actually it was my parents were visiting friends 315 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 2: of theirs, relations of theirs. These people had a daughter 316 00:22:16,600 --> 00:22:20,840 Speaker 2: that was like two years older than me, and while 317 00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,800 Speaker 2: they played cards, we'd go in her bedroom and listen 318 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:28,000 Speaker 2: to forty five rpm records on her record player, and 319 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 2: she played me Elvis Presley's Don't Be Cruel and everything 320 00:22:34,080 --> 00:22:35,439 Speaker 2: changed for me right there. 321 00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 5: What's the worst gig that you ever played? 322 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 2: Well, you know, of course some would take issue with it, 323 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,000 Speaker 2: but I thought it was Nebworth, the Nebworth Festival where 324 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 2: Richard Branson of Virgin Records talked us into becoming part 325 00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:59,879 Speaker 2: of this, you know, English festival in the countryside fame 326 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,280 Speaker 2: at the time, Nebworth. But we were like the fish 327 00:23:04,280 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 2: out of water. We were the sore thumb. I mean, 328 00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 2: if you looked at the lineup, you know, it was 329 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,760 Speaker 2: like Leonard SKINNERD and Genesis, and it was. 330 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:18,119 Speaker 3: I know, you know, as Jerry, just hearing you say 331 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 3: the word Leonard Skinnerd is funny enough. 332 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,879 Speaker 2: And we followed I squear somebody like Alabama, somebody that 333 00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:29,480 Speaker 2: would put up a big rebel flag behind them when 334 00:23:29,520 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: they played. And here we are in our white paper 335 00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:40,439 Speaker 2: jumpsuits with the the Rector brand skateboard helmets and knee 336 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,240 Speaker 2: pads and shoulder pads, and we're playing like things like 337 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:51,760 Speaker 2: be Stiff and Smart Patrol, DNA and Jockohomo. And you know, 338 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,439 Speaker 2: you're on the stage. That's like the people are ten 339 00:23:55,560 --> 00:23:57,920 Speaker 2: or twelve feet below you in the grass and it's, 340 00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:02,040 Speaker 2: you know, a kind of amphitheater like Hillside. People hated 341 00:24:02,119 --> 00:24:04,560 Speaker 2: us so much they started throwing stuff at us, but 342 00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:08,480 Speaker 2: it was falling short because the distances were so great. 343 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 2: They were hitting people in front of them that were 344 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 2: close to the stage. You know, they were hitting people 345 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 2: in the back of the head and back with trash 346 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:22,399 Speaker 2: and bottles, and so the crowd were watching them scream 347 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,000 Speaker 2: at us. But they're starting to fight with each other 348 00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 2: while we're playing and there's the booing after each song, 349 00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,720 Speaker 2: and of course, you know, Richard Branson thought that was brilliant, 350 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:41,399 Speaker 2: you know, the no press is bad press, maxim But 351 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:44,480 Speaker 2: it didn't feel that way to us. We just thought, 352 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:47,200 Speaker 2: what did we get talked into? What the hell are 353 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 2: we doing here? It was a hideous experience, you know, 354 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 2: to have to keep playing when you're just deflated, you know, 355 00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,440 Speaker 2: six to year stomach. 356 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 3: Dead person. You wish you could have collaborated musically with. 357 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:09,120 Speaker 2: Well, David Bowie, we thought we were going to, and 358 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,239 Speaker 2: then because of all his commitments, it didn't happen at 359 00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:15,959 Speaker 2: the time, and then we hardly had any contact with 360 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:20,320 Speaker 2: each other in the ensuing years. Somewhere in the nineties 361 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 2: he played it a private after party after David Lynch's 362 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:30,239 Speaker 2: Lost Highway movie and I talked to him there and 363 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,320 Speaker 2: we thought we talked about doing something, and then it 364 00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: didn't happen, and then he died. And he was such 365 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,719 Speaker 2: a brilliant artist, and he stayed true to being an 366 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,040 Speaker 2: artist till the end. I mean he completed that last 367 00:25:45,080 --> 00:25:50,280 Speaker 2: album knowing he was terminal. That's impressive. 368 00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, tell me about your Brian Eno experience. 369 00:25:55,920 --> 00:26:00,119 Speaker 2: What that was like, well, of course Brian's recently we 370 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 2: started talking about that. Of course he was frustrated by 371 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,399 Speaker 2: us because we were so strident and what we believed in, 372 00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,679 Speaker 2: what we wanted because we'd been living with our music 373 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:11,560 Speaker 2: for three and a half four years before we get 374 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:14,639 Speaker 2: to recording it, so we wanted it to be like 375 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,199 Speaker 2: what we had always imagined we could do once we 376 00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,480 Speaker 2: got to a recording studio, and we weren't very open 377 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 2: to a lot of what he was trying to do 378 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:30,600 Speaker 2: to the songs. I think he was he had moved 379 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: beyond his you know, the more brash and brazen stuff 380 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,520 Speaker 2: he was doing with Roxy music, and as you know, 381 00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,880 Speaker 2: he got into the ambient music and he became very zen. 382 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:46,879 Speaker 2: He toned down his ostentatious look and looked like an 383 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:51,480 Speaker 2: English gentleman, you know, from the countryside and short cropped hair, 384 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 2: and he just thought we were pretty rough around the 385 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,520 Speaker 2: edges because we were where we were coming from, and 386 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 2: what had formed us was, you know, this this brutal 387 00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:08,440 Speaker 2: you know existence in acrod Ohio, you know, where you're 388 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:14,679 Speaker 2: surrounded by right wing people, anti intellectual people, religious nuts, evangelicals, 389 00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 2: and we had developed this you know, aggressive industrial, angry 390 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 2: kind of set of songs that we lived and breathed. 391 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,000 Speaker 2: So he was making he tried to make him more 392 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:34,399 Speaker 2: melodic and prettier, and we would keep resisting that, pushing back, 393 00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 2: and he just felt like, oh there, you know, what 394 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:39,040 Speaker 2: am I going to do here? 395 00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 1: Right? 396 00:27:40,080 --> 00:27:42,480 Speaker 2: But he ended up doing things that we kept. He 397 00:27:42,520 --> 00:27:45,320 Speaker 2: really did. He did a lot of cool things, a 398 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 2: lot of great sounds he came up with, and he 399 00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 2: was very influential on the song Shrivel Up. He worked 400 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:57,400 Speaker 2: on that sequencer line, and he sang harmonies on Uncontrollable Urge, 401 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:03,280 Speaker 2: and he put synthesize our parts in several songs. But 402 00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 2: I think he wanted to do more, but he was 403 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 2: You've got to understand, he wasn't the producer that he became. 404 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,800 Speaker 2: You know, we we were both whatever they say, right 405 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 2: under the ears or whatever. I mean. He became so 406 00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:20,480 Speaker 2: famous afterwards in his work with the Talking Heads, But 407 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:24,840 Speaker 2: once again, Deva was always like this, you know, ahead 408 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,399 Speaker 2: of our time, pioneer stuff where I think he wouldn't 409 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 2: have ended up working with the Talking Heads had he 410 00:28:30,520 --> 00:28:34,399 Speaker 2: not done that debo record, you know, and we just 411 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:37,200 Speaker 2: weren't ready to go where he wanted us to go 412 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:42,920 Speaker 2: when he was trying to for the first time put 413 00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,000 Speaker 2: out a vision. He got better at what he did. 414 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 2: Maybe if we'd been to come back together later would 415 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:49,400 Speaker 2: have been really great. 416 00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 5: Tell me about your experience with Neil Young. 417 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, Neil Young. He surprised us because, you know you, 418 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 2: from our point of view, I thought we knew who 419 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,720 Speaker 2: Neil Young was, and he was like, Oh, yeah, he's 420 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,719 Speaker 2: the he's the granola guy. He's this, you know, the 421 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:12,280 Speaker 2: West Coast, sweet and cool, you know, folksy rock and roll, 422 00:29:13,200 --> 00:29:17,160 Speaker 2: grandfather of granola or whatever rock and and we just 423 00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 2: couldn't believe that he liked us, right, it didn't make 424 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:23,320 Speaker 2: any sense. But then you got to know him and 425 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:27,360 Speaker 2: it made total sense. And he wasn't what your cliched 426 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:30,840 Speaker 2: impressions of him might have been at all. And he 427 00:29:30,960 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 2: was very enthusiastic, almost like a kid. I mean, he 428 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 2: had a lot of ideas, and he had a lot 429 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 2: of excitement and enthusiasm, and he was always wanting to experiment, 430 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,800 Speaker 2: you know, he never really wanted to repeat himself. And 431 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,880 Speaker 2: he he really appreciated what we did. He was turned 432 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 2: on by it, and we liked being around him, and 433 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 2: we like talking to him. We were just amazed that 434 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,600 Speaker 2: he wanted us to be in his movie, you know, 435 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:00,280 Speaker 2: and that he wanted to record this. I mean would 436 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:06,520 Speaker 2: have never done. Russ never sleeps without our intersection. So yeah, 437 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:07,440 Speaker 2: Neil's a good guy. 438 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:11,120 Speaker 5: So tell me what you're working on these days. 439 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:17,600 Speaker 2: Well, I'm just working on staying alive. I you know, 440 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 2: I do some solo projects, as you know, whenever I can, 441 00:30:22,240 --> 00:30:27,680 Speaker 2: because I'm me and I was creative before Devo and 442 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: creative with Devo, and so if Mark's not interested in 443 00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 2: Devo writing new material, I still have to do what 444 00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:42,120 Speaker 2: I do. And I still remained really committed to all 445 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,760 Speaker 2: the visual arts because I've been directing music videos and 446 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: commercials for you know, thirty years, and I have a 447 00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 2: new suite of songs that I'm finishing, and I intend 448 00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 2: to do more video work with the video artist Day 449 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:04,680 Speaker 2: the Force that I did two videos with in Invisible 450 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,240 Speaker 2: Man and Pay You Back, and tend to do more 451 00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 2: video work with him. I like this live action meets 452 00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 2: animation fusion, and now that AI is in the picture, 453 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 2: and Dave Davey's been experimenting with these programs and technology 454 00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 2: that we didn't even have three years ago when we 455 00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 2: first started working. I think the next time I do something, 456 00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 2: it's going to be visually more exciting because we'll be 457 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 2: using this new these new programs to affect live action. 458 00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:42,640 Speaker 1: I don't know. 459 00:31:42,720 --> 00:31:45,160 Speaker 2: I worked on a plot that should have been a 460 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 2: movie that wasn't for DEVO, and it could be a 461 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,400 Speaker 2: graphic novel, and there are offers on the table, so 462 00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,720 Speaker 2: that might happen. You know, I've always told stories, always 463 00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,840 Speaker 2: involved in narrative, and I don't give up on that. 464 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,760 Speaker 5: In closing, what are you still trying to learn? 465 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,400 Speaker 2: How to suffer the fools? 466 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:10,880 Speaker 4: Gladly? 467 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 2: I was very bad at that. 468 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 4: I do have one more. 469 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 3: If somebody's listening, who is a aspiring musician, Ah, what 470 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:25,959 Speaker 3: advice would you give them? 471 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, well I hope you have a big appetite 472 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,480 Speaker 2: for masochism. 473 00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 4: Brilliant Jerry. This is fantastic. Thanks for being on. I 474 00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:43,120 Speaker 4: loved every second of it. 475 00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:45,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, we took some kind of walk. 476 00:32:47,040 --> 00:32:48,480 Speaker 4: Thank you, man, I appreciate it. 477 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:51,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to this episode of the Taking a 478 00:32:51,880 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: Walk Podcast. Share this and other episodes with your friends 479 00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,360 Speaker 1: and follow us so you never miss an episode. Taking 480 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: a Walk is available on the iHeartRadio, app, Apple Podcasts, 481 00:33:03,520 --> 00:33:05,800 Speaker 1: and wherever you get your podcasts.