Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways. I don't interest you've never known stories of
Speaker 1: things we simply don't know the answer too. Hey, guys,
Speaker 1: welcome to uh ann episode of Steve makes a Weird
Speaker 1: Face the podcast. I don't think that's the name of
Speaker 1: the show. We should rename it though, probably Steve make
Speaker 1: the weird face. Yeah, constantly, I can't help literally constantly. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we'll have to build up our listenership again, that's gonna
Speaker 1: take a long time. Just kidding. This is Thinking Sideways
Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Devin, joined most weeks by and Steve
Speaker 1: Steve makes a funny face. This week, we're going to
Speaker 1: talk about a mystery that is a little bit associated
Speaker 1: with the mystery we've already talked about. That would be
Speaker 1: the Mothman. Scarier. This one's better, No, I mean I
Speaker 1: think the stories are better true. I'll give you that.
Speaker 1: Thank you for giving that. Yeah, uh. This week you
Speaker 1: probably know we're going to talk about the Grinning Man, who,
Speaker 1: it turns out a surprising number of people don't know about.
Speaker 1: I didn't know about Earning Man ahead of time. I
Speaker 1: didn't either. Every time I'm like, oh yeah, the Grinning Man,
Speaker 1: people are like, I don't know what you're talking about.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, that's my story's at end of episode, Okay,
Speaker 1: all the credits. No, he also had a name, he
Speaker 1: did um. He may have been called Indurd Cold. He
Speaker 1: could have also maybe been called Ingrid Cold. I saw
Speaker 1: it as injured of the places, but I did see
Speaker 1: Ingrid every once in a while, so I thought i'd
Speaker 1: throw it in there, just in cases auto correct. I hope,
Speaker 1: I hope so. But he only told told his name
Speaker 1: to one person, only in person, and it was in
Speaker 1: Injured in that one, which makes me think that I
Speaker 1: would assume so. But you know how these things go.
Speaker 1: It's all. We got to throw it all in, we
Speaker 1: do so. The Grinning Man is described as quote well
Speaker 1: over six ft tall, totally bald, with black, beady eyes
Speaker 1: that are set a little too far apart. He most
Speaker 1: often is said to wear a shiny green or metallic
Speaker 1: suit or overalls, and is staring in your window right now,
Speaker 1: looking now, now, now, just kidding, probably maybe my hand,
Speaker 1: don't look. I hope it's not nighttime where you are.
Speaker 1: People who have met or seen the Grinning Man are
Speaker 1: often so taken aback that they can't say for certain
Speaker 1: if he has ears or a nose, because what they notice,
Speaker 1: as you might guess from his name, is the smile. Huge. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like very uncomfortably large, just like a jack d Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I don't necessarily get the sense that it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, an extra large mouth or anything. It's not
Speaker 1: an actual ear to ear. But did you guys watch
Speaker 1: Buffy ever? Yeah? Yeah, do you remember the absolute best
Speaker 1: episode of all Buffy canon, which is called Hush, which
Speaker 1: I actually did see. That's the one where it's completely silent,
Speaker 1: all of the voices get taken away by those creepy,
Speaker 1: terrifying guys who float around and smile constantly. I don't
Speaker 1: remember that one. It's a really really good it's by
Speaker 1: far the best episode of Buffy to ever exist. Go
Speaker 1: out check it out. I was really impressed with the
Speaker 1: musical episode. Yeah, that was a good one. This one's better. No,
Speaker 1: I think that that's the way I kind of picture
Speaker 1: the smiles of being not inhuman, but uncomfortably large and fixed, fixed, constant. Yeah. Okay,
Speaker 1: the Grinning Man may have his skin maybe kind of grayish,
Speaker 1: maybe tannish, maybe greenish, certainly not a supernatural healthy color,
Speaker 1: not supernatural, but very natural. They only ever saw him
Speaker 1: at night at night, Yeah, so it's harder to tell.
Speaker 1: I think it's like a pallid tone. Whatever it is
Speaker 1: would be the way I would describe it. Apparently, sometimes
Speaker 1: he maybe wore a black belt, right, well, so when
Speaker 1: he wore overalls or coveralls, he was maybe wearing a
Speaker 1: black belt. Probably not wearing black belt with the suit
Speaker 1: that you would notice necessarily true jacket would the way, yeah,
Speaker 1: it would. He apparently sometimes communicates telepathically with the people
Speaker 1: he encounters. I think I only heard about that happening once.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys encountered it anywhere else.
Speaker 1: Which is where we get the name Indrid Cold. And
Speaker 1: he was seen at Point Pleasant, West Virginia. Yeah, West Virginia,
Speaker 1: And if you'll remember correctly, that's uh where Mothman was
Speaker 1: seen made his debut. Was he seeing that point Pleasant
Speaker 1: or near like not too far, very close to yeh.
Speaker 1: So he's a Mothman sidekick or just the Mothman. Maybe
Speaker 1: the Mothman's ball, the boss supervisor. Maybe Mothman is his pet.
Speaker 1: He was just taking him out for a walk and
Speaker 1: he got off leash somehow. What what if he's like
Speaker 1: you know, the mothman collector the catcher like the dog catcher.
Speaker 1: So he's always he's always there because he's always chasing him. Well, actually,
Speaker 1: we'll touch on that a little bit in a minute,
Speaker 1: because one of the theories kind of plays into that.
Speaker 1: So we're gonna in this episode it's going to be
Speaker 1: one of those ones where we kind of tell stories.
Speaker 1: It's less theory based, more story based, and start contrast
Speaker 1: to like last week, where it was like almost entirely
Speaker 1: theory Yeah, almost entirely theory based. Sorry about that. It's
Speaker 1: not your fault, it's mine. It's Steve's fault. He made
Speaker 1: us watch that horrible movie again again and again again.
Speaker 1: I think it's a pretty good movie myself. We disagree
Speaker 1: on that. He didn't think I could make that voice.
Speaker 1: Did you know that was legitinely terrified? Sorry, but you're ready,
Speaker 1: we'll get back on track. Yeah, that's that's We've got
Speaker 1: an important mystery to self here. Okay, now that we've
Speaker 1: taken a pause to recover, the editing might be a
Speaker 1: little weird there because we were cracking up. Sorry, guys,
Speaker 1: let's tell this story. I'm gonna start by telling the
Speaker 1: story of the first maybe documented sighting of the Grinning Man.
Speaker 1: And would you say this is the standard version or
Speaker 1: is this the official version? Standard version? A version, like,
Speaker 1: how would you cluse? It's a version, It's the thinking
Speaker 1: sideways version. It's the kind of thing that we all
Speaker 1: kind of do, where we search out the most authentic
Speaker 1: documents but also mixing accepted lore. I just because sometimes
Speaker 1: we do it. This is exactly what we're told. You
Speaker 1: just want to clarify that. Yeah, this is kind of
Speaker 1: the general telling of this story perfect. I'm so we're
Speaker 1: going to tell this story. And then I want to
Speaker 1: tell you about the story that made me interested in
Speaker 1: the Grinning Man years and years ago. That was my
Speaker 1: first point of contact for even hearing about the Grinning Man.
Speaker 1: It was at least three years ago. And uh, well,
Speaker 1: we'll talk about that in a second. Two kids in October.
Speaker 1: Two kids, two boys, James and Marvin. And she's not
Speaker 1: telling you their last names because they're unpronounceable, but they
Speaker 1: have like five names. It's it's fine, Uh no, James
Speaker 1: and Marvin because this is the Sties. And somebody named
Speaker 1: their child Marvin like a jerk. I'm sorry, that was
Speaker 1: an okay name back in those days. It was a
Speaker 1: pretty good name. It's an old dude name now, but
Speaker 1: because yeah, that's true. Any idea how old these kids were?
Speaker 1: They were teenagers, they weren't. I thought they were like
Speaker 1: early teenagers though it's not like sev but barely teenagers,
Speaker 1: young teen, tweens and teens. They lived in Elizabeth, New Jersey,
Speaker 1: and they were walking home from if I recall correctly,
Speaker 1: some kind of mischief. Then the first reading of the
Speaker 1: stories that I did years and years ago, I distinctly
Speaker 1: remember being included in in the stories that like, they
Speaker 1: were out creating mischief and they were walking home from
Speaker 1: the toilet paper. I wasn't Maybe I wasn't able to
Speaker 1: find that again though, so it could be my misremembering.
Speaker 1: They were walking home along Fourth Street, which Joe may
Speaker 1: or may not have Google street viewed, actually didn't. He
Speaker 1: didn't go. I was busy. The road runs near the turnpike,
Speaker 1: and um as they arrived at a fairly treacherous part
Speaker 1: of the journey along a fence that kind of went
Speaker 1: past the turnpike. So there was the fence and then
Speaker 1: there was this huge hill and then the turnpike. Uh As,
Speaker 1: they were walking over a turn at this place. Is
Speaker 1: it below the ground level? Yeah, and so there was.
Speaker 1: It was a very very steep incline, so steep in fact,
Speaker 1: that almost everybody agrees that it's unclimbable from the turnpike,
Speaker 1: that it would be impossible for whatever whoever these boys
Speaker 1: saw to have climbed up from the turnpike. Apparently nobody
Speaker 1: had really ever been seen on the other side of
Speaker 1: that fence. Well, it would make sense because it was
Speaker 1: like impassable, and who would be dumb enough to climb
Speaker 1: the fence just to like be on a impassable incline
Speaker 1: basically right, or to climb up that grade? Yeah? Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: So the boys were, you know, the story is always
Speaker 1: really dramatically told. They're like passing in between pools of light.
Speaker 1: They were walking along a fence, you guys, and they
Speaker 1: paused to catch their breath. I don't know if they
Speaker 1: were like ridiculously out of shape. They weren't. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: would guess one had to pee, and I believe it
Speaker 1: was James looked at Marvin, who was peeing apparently totally
Speaker 1: facing him back was to the fence, and said, who's
Speaker 1: that behind you? And they turned around and there's a
Speaker 1: man standing on the other side of the fence. Yeah,
Speaker 1: of course. And now they were already a little on
Speaker 1: edge because somehow, I don't know how, they had heard
Speaker 1: rumors of that night one of the women in the
Speaker 1: neighborhood being chased by a quote, tall green man. I
Speaker 1: don't know how they heard that, but Okay, I guess
Speaker 1: the grape vine moved way more quickly than I anticipate
Speaker 1: in the sixties, I guess apparently. But but at this
Speaker 1: time they saw this guy was about a quarter to ten.
Speaker 1: It was about quarter to ten around really fast, So
Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah. Um, they described this guy that they
Speaker 1: saw as quote, the strangest guy we've ever seen. He
Speaker 1: was the biggest man I ever saw. At about three
Speaker 1: days later, this guyist afologists. Yes, my favorite upologist, John Kiel, Yes,
Speaker 1: he somehow heard that they had seen this guy and
Speaker 1: showed up and interviewed them in three days and three
Speaker 1: days later. Yeah, yeah, And here's what Kiel wrote about
Speaker 1: the interview. I don't think he actually quotes them or anything,
Speaker 1: So this is a quote from him talking about his
Speaker 1: interview with them. Quote. The man was over six ft tall,
Speaker 1: day agreed, and was dressed in a sparkling green coverall
Speaker 1: costume that shimmered and seemed to reflect the street lights.
Speaker 1: There was a wide black belt around his waist. He
Speaker 1: was very dark complexion, with little round eyes, real beaty
Speaker 1: set far apart. They could not remember seeing any hair,
Speaker 1: ears nose on this figure. Yeah, that's they don't remember
Speaker 1: that because as soon as they saw him, they ran
Speaker 1: like a little girl. They saw the grin and then
Speaker 1: they were like, maybe just we're getting out of here. Bye. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: was like twenty days away. Yeah, it was pretty close.
Speaker 1: Apparently there were reports of UFOs sightings at quote exactly
Speaker 1: the same time, forty miles away. Okay, so this is
Speaker 1: we're going to hit like a little interesting spot. So
Speaker 1: we'll just talk about this real quick. Steve's already super annoyed.
Speaker 1: He hates it when we talk about UFOs at all.
Speaker 1: Um small diversions. You guys know about the Men in Black? Yes,
Speaker 1: the Men in Black. These are different than the movie,
Speaker 1: different than the movies. Yeah, so no, Will Smith, no,
Speaker 1: Will Smith Jones, No, sorry, what about the pug? The dog?
Speaker 1: Definitely not the pug. So the you know, I mean,
Speaker 1: and they you are aware that, like some descriptions have
Speaker 1: these quote unquote men not being men, alien humanoid aliens.
Speaker 1: I s yeah, maybe the bibs, Yeah, they're bibs. They're
Speaker 1: most often described as unusually pale, most often with no eyebrows,
Speaker 1: no hair, no facial hair. Once I I did see
Speaker 1: describe them as at once being pale, complexioned and swarthy.
Speaker 1: So I'm not totally sure how that that doesn't make
Speaker 1: any It doesn't make any sense. Maybe they were spotted, Yeah,
Speaker 1: maybe that's it. Some reports say that the Men in
Speaker 1: Black speak with weird accents. Some say they communicate in
Speaker 1: weird giggling noises, like butthead, Yeah, exactly like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're in the spot. It's you know that part of
Speaker 1: the episode again already where Steve makes weird faces. He
Speaker 1: doesn't like this appearance. Yeah, it's Keel Keel Drives sightings.
Speaker 1: But the Men in Black were also seen in well
Speaker 1: so yeah, and anyway, in October of nineteen sixty six,
Speaker 1: there was a rash of sightings of um UFOs Men
Speaker 1: in Black and then also um the Grinning Man in Elizabeth,
Speaker 1: New Jersey, and the surrounding areas. But in New Jersey
Speaker 1: they are even some alleged pictures of the sightings of
Speaker 1: men in black, but nobody actually has a copy. Well no,
Speaker 1: actually I looked at them online and it's it's just
Speaker 1: hard to tell because it's nineteen sixty six, so it's
Speaker 1: not like it's the highest definition picture. And then dudes
Speaker 1: wore black suits a lot in those days and the fedoras,
Speaker 1: So you know, you catch a picture of a dude
Speaker 1: lurking in you know, from a slightly far distance, he's
Speaker 1: kind of standing in a doorway. You take a picture
Speaker 1: of it. What are you going to get at night? Well, no,
Speaker 1: it was during the day. During the day men in black?
Speaker 1: Do you go out in the day? And I wasn't
Speaker 1: able to find any actual reports of the actual UFO
Speaker 1: sightings that happened in October of nineteenth sixty six in
Speaker 1: New Jersey. So do you check the papers. I did
Speaker 1: not check the papers, but I checked a lot of
Speaker 1: different websites, but more than one site did refer to
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty six as the year of UFO sightings. So
Speaker 1: it's not nothing. You're gonna talk about this now or
Speaker 1: in the series section. You can talk about it now.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about it now the Black Book. No, here's
Speaker 1: my problem with this whole thing for this story of
Speaker 1: the grading. Man, I know we have more story to go,
Speaker 1: but in this original one, and I'm using air quotes
Speaker 1: when I say original, Kiel's the only one. He's the
Speaker 1: only source, and he's he's the one who says that
Speaker 1: there were all these UFO sightings. And one of the
Speaker 1: places that he loves to talk about is the n
Speaker 1: i c a P, which is the National Investigations Committee
Speaker 1: on Aerial Phenomena. They're the ones who tracked UFOs. That
Speaker 1: was their big thing at there that nearly is active
Speaker 1: with their archives are online, and he's there was UFO
Speaker 1: sightings in the area every day. So I went through
Speaker 1: the prior month and then the month after in nineteen
Speaker 1: sixty six, and there's like three a month, and most
Speaker 1: of the sightings are all over the maps. So like,
Speaker 1: I really I questioned this just because this one thing
Speaker 1: that he's making such a big deal of turns out
Speaker 1: to be absolutely completely wrong by an organization that tracks that.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So in other words, there were three in
Speaker 1: that whole time period, and none of them were in
Speaker 1: New Jersey. No, No, in New Jersey there was three.
Speaker 1: Like there's tons and tons and tons in the month
Speaker 1: of night and each month in nineteen sixty six. But
Speaker 1: they're all over the world, you know, They're everywhere, So
Speaker 1: it's not as if it was New Jersey the month
Speaker 1: of October nineteen sixty six, bang bang bang bang bang
Speaker 1: bang bang. It was a couple of them, but they
Speaker 1: were in New Jersey in general, not necessarily this one
Speaker 1: small town. So that that really really I have a
Speaker 1: problem with him being the only source and then him
Speaker 1: making claims that are provably I agree. Yeah. I also,
Speaker 1: I don't think we mentioned if you aren't familiar, if
Speaker 1: you didn't listen to the Mothman episode, or you just
Speaker 1: don't know. John Keel, who we're talking about right now,
Speaker 1: is the author of The Mothman Prophecies. That's his most
Speaker 1: famous work. He's an author. On top of that, he
Speaker 1: also was a fictional screenwriter for horror movies for really
Speaker 1: long time. So that's uh interest that. Yeah, Well, when
Speaker 1: he wrote I can't remember the name of his book
Speaker 1: before the Mothman Prophecies, he's a lot of first showed
Speaker 1: up in a book of strange stories. That's not the name,
Speaker 1: but that might as well be the name, and the
Speaker 1: Mothman got I think it was all of chapter fourteen
Speaker 1: and several chapters before he briefly mentions the Grinning Man
Speaker 1: and what we read in what you just read and
Speaker 1: you see all the internet is directly taken from that.
Speaker 1: There is no other source for the story of Marvin
Speaker 1: and James. Yeah, there's there's nowhere else. Yeah kind of,
Speaker 1: that's usually what those things were a little bit, yeah, often, Yeah, Okay,
Speaker 1: it's great. I love that, and it's going to make
Speaker 1: the theory section go even faster. Yeah, but this is
Speaker 1: the story. We're going to read this. When are you
Speaker 1: going to read it to us? I mean, we're about
Speaker 1: we're there right now. Actually, yeah sweet. There's this story
Speaker 1: on reddit, that one that's a creepy one story. It
Speaker 1: first appeared on our the subreddit Let's Not Meet. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I wrote it and read it lingo, you really did?
Speaker 1: Started to read it um, and then again the subreddit
Speaker 1: No Sleep Let's Not Meet is um. It's meant to
Speaker 1: be all true stories, true horror stories, true experiences that
Speaker 1: people have actually experienced, whereas No Sleep can be true
Speaker 1: or fictional, no matter what, it's just horror stories. The
Speaker 1: author of this story claims that it's true. He's continued
Speaker 1: to claim it's true. If that's the case, then I
Speaker 1: don't ever, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever ever want to
Speaker 1: be outside alone when it's dark, and you'll be fine.
Speaker 1: Maybe this story is called The Smiling Man, and I'm
Speaker 1: not going to tell the whole thing. It's really easy
Speaker 1: to find. You can just google the Smiling Man and
Speaker 1: it is literally the first thing to come up. But
Speaker 1: we're gonna do some mixture of direct quotes and then
Speaker 1: summarize what happens in between. The story is written by
Speaker 1: a user named Blue Title. I did get permission to
Speaker 1: use this story from the author, Just so everybody knows,
Speaker 1: I also spoke to him. I keep saying him. I'm
Speaker 1: just assuming him. I didn't actually ask, because it's read
Speaker 1: it and that's rude. But we'll talk a little bit
Speaker 1: about the discussion I had with him after the fact.
Speaker 1: So Blue Title starts the story out by talking about
Speaker 1: how he likes to walk at night. I think we
Speaker 1: all do things like this sometimes, you know, walk or
Speaker 1: drive or something at night to clear your head, or
Speaker 1: if you can't sleep, or a drink and drive. Not
Speaker 1: a thing to admit, not a thing to do, definitely not.
Speaker 1: I don't even know what that means. So around two
Speaker 1: am he turns down a side street heading home off
Speaker 1: of kind of a more main thoroughfare, when he sees
Speaker 1: the silhouette of a man dancing. That was a strange dance,
Speaker 1: similar to a waltz, but he finished each box with
Speaker 1: an odd forward stride. I guess you could say he
Speaker 1: was dance walking, heading straight for me. Deciding he was
Speaker 1: probably drunk, I stepped as close as I could to
Speaker 1: the road to give him the majority of the sidewalk
Speaker 1: to pass by. I mean, the closer he got, the
Speaker 1: more I realized how gracefully he was moving. He was
Speaker 1: very tall and lanky and wearing an old suit. He
Speaker 1: danced closer still until I could make out his face.
Speaker 1: His eyes were wide open and wild head tilted back slightly,
Speaker 1: looking off at the sky. His mouth was formed in
Speaker 1: a painfully wide cartoon of a smile. At this point,
Speaker 1: the author wisely crosses the street. Uh, and terrifyingly, the
Speaker 1: man quote unquote man the figure follows him, kind of
Speaker 1: it won't he won't move until blue title looks away
Speaker 1: from him. So like an angel and doctor who kind
Speaker 1: of weeping angel like the weeping angels. So he you know,
Speaker 1: he decides this guy is drunk. He like is creeped
Speaker 1: out by him, so he looks at him, he turns,
Speaker 1: he walks across the street. He turns back and is paused,
Speaker 1: just frozen, like he's about to cross the street, exactly
Speaker 1: parallel from blue title. So Blue title desides, but I'm
Speaker 1: just I'll just keep walking. That's weird, it's creepy, but
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna keep walking. So he turns around and
Speaker 1: walks for a minute or two, and then turns around again.
Speaker 1: He had crossed the street and was now slightly crouched down.
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell for sure due to the distance in shadows,
Speaker 1: but I was certain he was facing me. It was
Speaker 1: clear that he had moved fast. I was so shocked
Speaker 1: that I stood there for some time staring at him.
Speaker 1: And then he started moving towards me again. He took giant,
Speaker 1: exaggerated tiptoe steps, as if he were a cartoon character
Speaker 1: sneaking up on somebody, except he was moving very very quickly.
Speaker 1: I'd like to sit at this point I ran away
Speaker 1: or pulled out my pepper spray or my cell phone
Speaker 1: or anything at all, but I didn't. I just stood there,
Speaker 1: completely frozen as a smiling man crept towards me, and
Speaker 1: then he stopped again, about a car length away from me,
Speaker 1: still smiling, his smile, still looking to the sky. When
Speaker 1: I finally found my voice, I blurted out the first
Speaker 1: thing that came to mind. What I meant to ask
Speaker 1: was what the do you want? Yeah? In an angry,
Speaker 1: commanding tone. What came out was a whimper, what the fun?
Speaker 1: Regardless of whether or not humans can smell fear, the
Speaker 1: concertainly hear it. I heard it in my own voice,
Speaker 1: and that only made me more afraid. But he didn't
Speaker 1: react at all. He just stood there, smiling, and then,
Speaker 1: after what felt like forever, he turned around very slowly
Speaker 1: and started dance, walking away just like that. Not wanted
Speaker 1: to turn my back on him again, I just watched
Speaker 1: him go until he was far enough away to almost
Speaker 1: be out of sight, and then I realized something. He
Speaker 1: wasn't moving away anymore, nor was he dancing. I watched
Speaker 1: in horror as a distant shape of him grew larger
Speaker 1: and larger. He was coming back my way, and this
Speaker 1: time he was running blue. Title decided to run to Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would smartly, so right, Yeah. He ran to a
Speaker 1: busier street, at which point he turned around and the
Speaker 1: smiling Man was gone. Didn't follow him onto the busy street,
Speaker 1: which also makes sense for a weird creepy dude. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he would like to stick to the shadows. Yeah, as
Speaker 1: I said, I did exchange a few messages with the
Speaker 1: poster off their blue title. He said the suit didn't
Speaker 1: match the description of the smiling man. It wasn't metallic,
Speaker 1: it wasn't greenish, he said, it was probably black or
Speaker 1: I'm sorry of the grinning man. Got it, okay, smiling man. Well,
Speaker 1: we've just been doing the story of the Yeah. He
Speaker 1: also said that the the guy had a headful of
Speaker 1: hair and that he was over six ft tall, certainly,
Speaker 1: but still within a normal range for a human. That
Speaker 1: really he thought this guy was more of a psychopath
Speaker 1: than he was, like an alien or something like that.
Speaker 1: Maybe drunken ballerina, drunk ballerina. You know, it's hard. Did
Speaker 1: they say he never went up? He never stopped doing
Speaker 1: his nighttime walks after that he did for a while.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, he was like maybe no, so low
Speaker 1: in the comments on the original one. So it was
Speaker 1: the let's not meet. Somebody said, oh, hey, you met
Speaker 1: the Grinning Man, which was my first point of contact
Speaker 1: for the concept of the Grinning Man. So this is
Speaker 1: where you this is where I first came across it.
Speaker 1: And you know, people seem to not really know about
Speaker 1: the Grinning Man. You know, it wasn't highly voted up.
Speaker 1: And then there's a subreddit called the Smiling Man dedicated
Speaker 1: to maybe not just this story, um, dedicated to the
Speaker 1: idea of the Smiling Man character character himself. And it
Speaker 1: does bring up some points about the difference between the
Speaker 1: Smiling Man and the Grinning Man, most of which I
Speaker 1: would say, are you know it's like, well, the Smiling
Speaker 1: Man likes to toy with his victims, whereas the Grinning
Speaker 1: Man likes to play with his victim. I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's that I don't know what the vote is,
Speaker 1: but it's that close a difference, got it. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know. The Grinning Man really doesn't seem to do
Speaker 1: anything other than the communicating telepathically with that one guy.
Speaker 1: That's yeah, that's been my sense to So I don't
Speaker 1: know why any you know, how anybody was like, he
Speaker 1: tries to do this, he tries do that. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Of course, on the other hand, you don't. You don't
Speaker 1: really know what he does with everybody, because it might
Speaker 1: be that the people wind up getting killed by him yea,
Speaker 1: and they can't report it. Yeah, so who knows For
Speaker 1: some random reason, some people get let off the hook. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you might want to stop at this point look out
Speaker 1: your window. Just kidding. There have been other reports of
Speaker 1: seeing the Smiling Man. I would dismiss of them. Oh
Speaker 1: and also for for our local listeners or like Pacific
Speaker 1: Northwest listeners, that original story of the Smiling Man took
Speaker 1: place in Seattle, So sleep tie, what the way did
Speaker 1: did blue title? Did he get a good enough look
Speaker 1: at this guy? Or if he ran into him and
Speaker 1: get on the street in the daylight, what do you recognize?
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, absolutely, But he hasn't seen him anything,
Speaker 1: hasn't seen him, sense No, hasn't seen him. But Seattle
Speaker 1: is not a small place. Okay, But back to canon,
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, or the Grinning Man. Since I don't know,
Speaker 1: I think there's a reasonable chance that if both parties exist,
Speaker 1: they may be one and the same the Grinning Man.
Speaker 1: The Smiling Man and the Grinning Man both exists, that
Speaker 1: they could be the same thing. Well, but there's there's
Speaker 1: differences between the two reported differences. That's true, which makes
Speaker 1: me think they couldn't be the same entity, that they
Speaker 1: could be the same, the same thing, the same kind
Speaker 1: of thing. Yeah, you know, Joe's not We're both weird
Speaker 1: looking dudes. I would mistake one for the other. Sorry, Joe. Sure,
Speaker 1: One more question about Blue Titles story. Uh did he
Speaker 1: say I it doesn't really come across in the story
Speaker 1: for sure, But did he say that he felt like
Speaker 1: the Smiling man's movements were I mean, obviously they were unnatural,
Speaker 1: they were strange. But did you say that he felt
Speaker 1: like they didn't see the story, they thought that they
Speaker 1: were like physically impossible for human being, right, No, The
Speaker 1: sense that I have from everything, you know, from exchanging
Speaker 1: messages from him and reading the comments and things like that,
Speaker 1: the sense that I have is that Blue Title does
Speaker 1: believe that the Smiling Man is human or very close
Speaker 1: to human physiologically the same. Yeah, it wasn't. It was
Speaker 1: heard stuff, but it was more I mean, like, you
Speaker 1: know the kind of stuff that like Jim Kurt carry
Speaker 1: might do. You know, physicality wise, it's not impossible for
Speaker 1: human although times like the cartoons from the thirties and
Speaker 1: forties where the guy's got his arms out and they're
Speaker 1: just doing the seesaw motion back and forth, waves crossed. No,
Speaker 1: not that kind of liquid bone motion. No, that wasn't
Speaker 1: the sense that I okay, so you could have been
Speaker 1: a human being. Okay, So to this other sighting in
Speaker 1: November of nineteen sixty six. This is where we get
Speaker 1: in indurd cold from the name sorry, the name, oh,
Speaker 1: the sewing machine salesman by the name of a woodrow
Speaker 1: Darren Burger, Darren Berger. Yes, that's how he pronounced it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: sure it was. So he was driving home after a
Speaker 1: long year of work, which some of us know about. Yeah,
Speaker 1: apparently he saw this really weird vehicle quote unquote drop
Speaker 1: out of this guy and land on the road in
Speaker 1: front of him with a really loud noise that will happen. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He described it as an old fashioned kerosene lamp chimney
Speaker 1: flaring at both ends, but I assume a lot bigger. Yeah, sorry, yeah,
Speaker 1: looking like that, And for anybody who doesn't know, I
Speaker 1: knew what it was, but I still looked it up
Speaker 1: to make sure. If you don't know what a kerosene
Speaker 1: lamp chimney is it's a cylinder with a bulge in
Speaker 1: the center. That's really the simplest description of what it is. Yes, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: but I was like, what what part of it? And
Speaker 1: so I had to look it up. So I realized
Speaker 1: not everybody is familiar with us. Yeah, apparently it had
Speaker 1: was it flared at both ends a little bit, so
Speaker 1: I think it was like wider and then slim, and
Speaker 1: then there was a bulge and then it was slim
Speaker 1: and then flared again. Yeah, that's how he described it.
Speaker 1: So when good old Woodrow slammed on the brakes of
Speaker 1: his truck, this like hatch, I guess, split open in
Speaker 1: the side of the weird vehicle that had just crashed
Speaker 1: in front of him. I didn't have a good sense.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you guys did. If it was
Speaker 1: like crashed, oops, this thing is ruined or crashed. It
Speaker 1: sounds like I just sat down, just set down hard,
Speaker 1: really hard. Yeah, but it didn't destroy it or damage it.
Speaker 1: I I don't know. I don't know if it's I
Speaker 1: don't have a sense. I don't. You don't either, neither
Speaker 1: of you do. Steve's mad already. He has something. I'm
Speaker 1: sure it sounds like the guy. The guy popped out
Speaker 1: and then got back in and flew off again. Right,
Speaker 1: So I couldn't. I could not have damaged it that much. Right. Anyways,
Speaker 1: the tall, dark skinned man climbed out. Woodrow said that
Speaker 1: he had slightly elongated eyes, but the most notable attribute
Speaker 1: was a wide, creepy grin. Yeah, and he could see
Speaker 1: glinting in the lights of his truck. Okay, the smile,
Speaker 1: not the man. Woodrow said that he was wearing reflective clothing,
Speaker 1: reflective kind of it was. This is one of the
Speaker 1: big disparities between the two stories. The suit that the
Speaker 1: man was wearing wasn't green. It was just kind of
Speaker 1: more metallic. So it's just shiny metallic, not green. No,
Speaker 1: that was you know. I mean the grinning man maybe
Speaker 1: wants to change his outfits once in a while, right,
Speaker 1: Like what, he's not allowed to change his clothes. Come on, guys,
Speaker 1: just the belt as an accessory is not enough. You
Speaker 1: got to have a full outfit, Jake, I think I
Speaker 1: think that's fair. You gotta send your clothes with the
Speaker 1: laundry at some point. Yeah. Anyway, So, Woodrow said that
Speaker 1: the grinning Man telepathically communicated with him and asked him
Speaker 1: a seriar is of odd questions. Did he remember any
Speaker 1: of these questions? I don't think so. But he did
Speaker 1: say that his name was Cold and that he would
Speaker 1: come back and visit Woodrow sometime. So, just to point out,
Speaker 1: this conversation was not had entirely verbally, and I think
Speaker 1: at all, Uh, thank you, Woodrow was speaking. The grinning
Speaker 1: man was speaking telepathically because they would ruin his grant
Speaker 1: if he would. Yeah, you can't grin, and well you can,
Speaker 1: but it's not easily. It's it's really strange when I
Speaker 1: do it right now, So he doesn't work. This episode
Speaker 1: of Steve makes weird faces grinning and talking at the
Speaker 1: same time. Um, so, I don't know. Apparently Cold then
Speaker 1: got back to his vehicle again. I don't know, like
Speaker 1: necessarily where the like indurid Cold came from. I assume
Speaker 1: it's from a different telling the first name. It's not
Speaker 1: the first the last time that he saw him, Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how it came about. Came back again many times, Yeah,
Speaker 1: many times. So the Cold gets back in his little
Speaker 1: craft thing and zooms away, and then I guess visits
Speaker 1: Woodrow a bunch of other times and they talk about
Speaker 1: posies and sunflowers and how hot to bake bread? Right now?
Speaker 1: Is that not what they talked about? And Andred never
Speaker 1: tried to be violent or have sex with Woodrow or
Speaker 1: anything like that. No probing, no probing. But other other
Speaker 1: people who lived in Point Pleasant, which is where this
Speaker 1: interaction happened, yeah, claimed to have seen Indred cold and
Speaker 1: spoken with him too. Steve has that little black book again,
Speaker 1: I do, because well, actually, and there's not much on
Speaker 1: this particular bit in the book. But here's the deal.
Speaker 1: Woodrow went to the news the next day and they
Speaker 1: interviewed him for like a half an hour, and then
Speaker 1: he went and talked to a bunch of other people,
Speaker 1: and all of that audio is available to listen to it.
Speaker 1: I did. I didn't even research Woodrow, Darren Burger, because
Speaker 1: I know, just assumed that you never existed. Yeah, No,
Speaker 1: he's a says this whole The ship crashed to the
Speaker 1: ground in front of him. He described it as a
Speaker 1: vehicle approached him from behind, past him on the left.
Speaker 1: He looked over at it, saw it, and then it
Speaker 1: went in front of him and slowed down and got
Speaker 1: blocked him. Once Indrid got out of the vehicle, the
Speaker 1: vehicle went in the sky and hovered, waited for him
Speaker 1: to return, then landed, picked him up and took off again.
Speaker 1: He was in a dark suit like as in a
Speaker 1: suit and trousers. Is the impression I got from the
Speaker 1: way he described the suit. Uh, had hair, had you know,
Speaker 1: a nose, normal features. And the only mentioned in the
Speaker 1: entire thing about the grin is he had a smile
Speaker 1: on his face, a pleasant friendly look. That was it.
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe Injurd Cole is the smiling man not the
Speaker 1: grinning man. You know, we're accidentally doing an episode on
Speaker 1: the smiling Well, I think you're trying to so. But
Speaker 1: he did. But but Indurd's cold actually did speak to
Speaker 1: him telepathically, Yes, he said, he spoke to him telepathically.
Speaker 1: And was his description of the ship or craft the same,
Speaker 1: very similar. I mean the chimney, the kerosene lantern chimney
Speaker 1: part parts still holds true. Uh, that still all happens.
Speaker 1: The crashing to the ground part doesn't happen. He asked
Speaker 1: him about what the town is and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: and then he says, yeah, we're gonna speak again. And
Speaker 1: Woodrow goes on, with the help of another author to
Speaker 1: write about his other encow outers with Indrid, where he
Speaker 1: meets two of Cold's companions whose names I don't recall,
Speaker 1: and things don't go good for him because nobody believes him.
Speaker 1: He writes these crazy books, his wife leaves him, he
Speaker 1: turns into a wreck louse because he's sure that people
Speaker 1: are after him. Like I have a feeling he was
Speaker 1: a little unhinged from the beginning. But if nothing else,
Speaker 1: I really believe that this whole thing was in his
Speaker 1: head simply because he'd been working hours and hours and hours,
Speaker 1: and now he's got this long drive home. And have
Speaker 1: you ever been driving and you're just spacing out and
Speaker 1: you're having this whole thing go through your head, and
Speaker 1: then you realize fifteen minutes has gone by and you
Speaker 1: don't remember driving. He could have freaked himself out to
Speaker 1: the point and said that's got to be really told
Speaker 1: everybody about It could very well have been in yeah,
Speaker 1: or he was nuts, or he made it up. But
Speaker 1: that did he say how many? How many more times
Speaker 1: he talked to Indured. I know that he has quote
Speaker 1: unquote documented how many times he spoke to him. I
Speaker 1: don't know that number myself. I didn't I didn't go
Speaker 1: any deeper after that, I I gleaned, I got the
Speaker 1: information I needed at that point, and I just left
Speaker 1: it be. He didn't say anything about what they talked
Speaker 1: about on these various occasions or not again, Joe, I
Speaker 1: I went through the initial encounter, and I read stuff
Speaker 1: about the later encounters, but I didn't read any of
Speaker 1: the later encounter text. Alright, Wood, Yeah, maybe the best
Speaker 1: witness Also, maybe thirteen year old boys not the best
Speaker 1: witnesses fourteen or John Keel or John Keel. How about
Speaker 1: this one. Let's try this one on for size. Another
Speaker 1: one a twenty six year old night watchman named Pierre
Speaker 1: zan Fretta. He was on patrol in the village of Triglia,
Speaker 1: Italy um in December of nineteen seventy eight, and he
Speaker 1: claims he was abducted by a trio. I'm sorry I
Speaker 1: shouldn't say this laughing, but he was abducted by a
Speaker 1: trio of gigantic, yellow eyed semi reptilian aliens, but also
Speaker 1: apparently the Grinning Man was there with them. He says
Speaker 1: he was abducted like times or something like that. There
Speaker 1: were semi reptilian yellow line Yeah, but that like overseeing
Speaker 1: the whole operation was this grinning man. What is semi reptilian?
Speaker 1: I'd see like a mixed between reptilian and humans. Think
Speaker 1: about that old Star Trek episode, the original from the
Speaker 1: original show, and it was Grock or whatever his name was,
Speaker 1: I don't remember if it was the one Kirk fought. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that that the alien center of the planet. Exactly who
Speaker 1: you're talking rex head and he's not semi reptil guy
Speaker 1: was full on its dr who wit again? Then okay,
Speaker 1: you know the let's see the woman who um has
Speaker 1: the girlfriend and they Yeah, and they're in London. Yes,
Speaker 1: I know exactly what race their semi reptilian. They're reptilian. No,
Speaker 1: they are humannid. They're like humans, right, their bodies are humans,
Speaker 1: but they stand upright on two legs and the two
Speaker 1: arms and they speak. That doesn't make them humanoid. They're
Speaker 1: still a reptile. They're reptilian. Actually, this is the whole
Speaker 1: reptilian without even being a reptile. Okay, well, yeah, let's
Speaker 1: just leave this alone because this is an argument that
Speaker 1: will take a long time and go gowhere. Agreed, and
Speaker 1: we'll do a whole episode on it. Please know, anyway,
Speaker 1: I don't think this guy is a very credible. Witnesses
Speaker 1: want to talk anyone. Now, you don't think the overseers
Speaker 1: the grinning men? Notice I said men, man, They say,
Speaker 1: so they abducted in. What did they do with probe?
Speaker 1: Lots of experiments and probing like a lot of probing questions.
Speaker 1: So what were you doing last Thursday at seven p
Speaker 1: m at the what's the average air speed of European swallow?
Speaker 1: How many drugs have you taken tonight? Sir? And we're
Speaker 1: any of the mushroom shape? Really it's in little white
Speaker 1: and green mushrooms. Well, does anybody have any theories? I
Speaker 1: actually do, were there? There's not a lot of them,
Speaker 1: and there's not a lot left at left. Sorry. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So the theories are as per Debon usual in bullet
Speaker 1: point form. One is that he could be an alien
Speaker 1: or an alien species. Right. I guess the proof of
Speaker 1: this or the theory would go that they're the Grinning Man.
Speaker 1: Sightings are by and large in conjunction with UFO sightings,
Speaker 1: except not all the time, and not really not really.
Speaker 1: There's a huge difference. They're distance, not difference, but the distances,
Speaker 1: but also difference, not always. I wonder if you. I
Speaker 1: wonder if perhaps the grinning Man is actually a number
Speaker 1: of different human beings from far far in in our future.
Speaker 1: We were traveling back in time and don't know how
Speaker 1: to be like normal human beings by our standard. Exactly,
Speaker 1: have you watched Fringe? No, have you watched Fringe? Okay,
Speaker 1: they have the observers who was already over like years ago.
Speaker 1: I'm planning out watching them. Okay, Well, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to spoil anything. There's these guys who always walk around
Speaker 1: in a black suit with a white shirt and a
Speaker 1: black tie and wear a fedora, and they're they're white,
Speaker 1: and they have absolutely no hair on their entire bodies
Speaker 1: and they know what's coming. Yeah, they're meant to be
Speaker 1: men in black, so that is you know, it could
Speaker 1: be like that. But they're from the future, so could
Speaker 1: be that. But Joe's suggesting is right, they're just ding
Speaker 1: dongs from the future. Just I think it's fair. Right,
Speaker 1: if we were to travel back, what even a thousand
Speaker 1: years in human history, right, our social conventions would seem
Speaker 1: super weird to anybody, and we would seem super tall
Speaker 1: to everybody. It would seem well I wouldn't, but you
Speaker 1: guys would actually would a thousand years ago. A thousand
Speaker 1: years ago years ago, i'd be totally almal Yeah, but no,
Speaker 1: I mean I guess that's true. I didn't have that,
Speaker 1: but I guess we'll add it right now. Time Traveler, Well,
Speaker 1: it kind of falls into the next theory. It's that
Speaker 1: he's a men in black, right, He's a man in black.
Speaker 1: He's part of the Men in Black black. Well, because
Speaker 1: the theory could I mean, some proponents of the men
Speaker 1: in Black theory think it's just like normal human men
Speaker 1: for aliens or and well know, I mean the part
Speaker 1: of it is that kind of the what the movie
Speaker 1: is about. That they're right, But then the other part
Speaker 1: of that is that maybe actually the men in Black
Speaker 1: are aliens or people from the future or whatever. So yeah,
Speaker 1: that that's my thing is that, you know, there's the
Speaker 1: whole the movie genre is there hiding the aliens. But
Speaker 1: if they're aliens, what are they hiding? You know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Is that necessarily? Yeah, it's like, well, maybe
Speaker 1: it's just that that their fashion sense is antiquated and
Speaker 1: we don't know what they're up to. I'm just I'm curious.
Speaker 1: I never understood it. Well, like, what's the deal with
Speaker 1: the Men in Black. If what was in the movie
Speaker 1: wasn't right, and I know what the movie wasn't real fiction,
Speaker 1: it wasn't Well, if they were aliens, it would be
Speaker 1: that they were working in collusion with the government to
Speaker 1: hide the more drastic aliens from the world or maybe
Speaker 1: hunt down and hutown and capture or kill these more
Speaker 1: drastic aliens. Yeah, because they could pass as human. Kind
Speaker 1: of imagine that would be kind of an interesting thing
Speaker 1: if it never came out that that's true, that you know,
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of aliens. They're here on Earth just
Speaker 1: tracking down the criminals who have escaped to Earth. That's
Speaker 1: a very long episode in and of itself. Well, well,
Speaker 1: you know the easy answer those either of you ever
Speaker 1: watched that movie Critters. No, it's an old eighties horror movie.
Speaker 1: It's their little hairy round guys. They were like, you know,
Speaker 1: medicine ball sized and hairy, but they had nothing but
Speaker 1: teeth and they ate constantly. Well, the bounty hunters who
Speaker 1: chased them were shape changers, and so they would find
Speaker 1: a local and you know, quote unquote scan and then
Speaker 1: change themselves to look like that interesting, So it could
Speaker 1: be that kind of situation is the one scan they
Speaker 1: have in their system that's considered passable on this planet
Speaker 1: happens to have a stupidly huge grin and a black suit. Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1: Or they're trying to, you know, pass this friendly and normal,
Speaker 1: and they're like, oh, people smile when they're friendly normal,
Speaker 1: So it's just we're just gonna smile. People are so dumb,
Speaker 1: we totally blended. Don't say anything. They just look at
Speaker 1: you and keep going quickly. That's absolutely, absolutely true, absolutely true. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Next theory is that he's the moth Man, could be
Speaker 1: just wearing a different kick I go with that, or
Speaker 1: Wrangler yeah right, wrangler. Yeah, they're like released the moth
Speaker 1: Man and he's like, man, I just definitely to right.
Speaker 1: I just got that kid down to sleep. Now you
Speaker 1: want me to wake him up again? Yeah? No, you
Speaker 1: don't think, um, I don't, I know, I I lump,
Speaker 1: I lump. If that's where we're going in with Mothman,
Speaker 1: might as well just be mass hysteria. Yeah, because that's
Speaker 1: the last theory. Mothman had had wings and stuff, didn't he. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: the last theory is that he's just made up. That's
Speaker 1: a possibility. I want to throw in another theory, which
Speaker 1: is that people sometimes put on costumes. Yeah, they get
Speaker 1: they get a mask, you know, and they get out
Speaker 1: outrageous cal could be you know. I added to the
Speaker 1: list of like made up subheading like sleep deprivation mass
Speaker 1: hysteria sort of thing, because they think it's true. Every
Speaker 1: single sighting that you've heard has either been like kids
Speaker 1: who are already freaked out about something scary and they
Speaker 1: saw a tall guy who was smiling at them and
Speaker 1: they were like, no, talking about that. One family who
Speaker 1: supposedly also encountered the grinning man is everyone was talking
Speaker 1: about Jimmy and or James and Marvin because there's because
Speaker 1: there's the other story about the family who has all
Speaker 1: the weird extraterrestrial stuff in their house. Yeah that was
Speaker 1: I don't know it was. But the only thing that
Speaker 1: was like grinning Man kind of specific to that story
Speaker 1: was the daughter woke up one night and it was
Speaker 1: a huge man towering over her bed. And she's like
Speaker 1: four or five, so all adults are towering, and some
Speaker 1: weirdos that are. She didn't necessarily say that he was
Speaker 1: wearing a green or it doesn't sued or had a
Speaker 1: un naturally wark. Yeah, yeah, I know that one I
Speaker 1: didn't even include because I found it to be so weak.
Speaker 1: Well yeah, but if you look at the website to
Speaker 1: talk about the Grinning Man, that one is almost always included.
Speaker 1: Well that's because there's not very much good stuff. But
Speaker 1: were trying to make a four page article. You have
Speaker 1: enough ads on your website, you will pull it'll pull it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the Woodrow sleep deprived. The night Watchman probably sleep deprived,
Speaker 1: and and honestly not to like cast dispersions, but Blue
Speaker 1: title sleep deprived. You know, in his by his own admission,
Speaker 1: he walked because he couldn't sleep well. Insomnia. Yeah, well,
Speaker 1: little freak out. Somebody probably drunk in your brain interpreting
Speaker 1: it as like being malicious. On the other hand, it
Speaker 1: could just be a jerk. It could have been somebody
Speaker 1: had a little fun with him with I mean, in
Speaker 1: all of these cases too, right, it could have just
Speaker 1: been somebody having fun. My personal theory is that this
Speaker 1: whole thing is John Keel's fault, and he started a trend,
Speaker 1: which these things always happen, is one guy publishes something
Speaker 1: and suddenly everybody sees it. It's you know, when you
Speaker 1: buy that one car and suddenly you see that car
Speaker 1: everywhere on the road. That problem. But yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: don't like the One of the interesting things about the
Speaker 1: UFO phenomenon is that nobody ever saw UFOs until the
Speaker 1: plane was invented. That's true. Yeah, there's reports of UFOs
Speaker 1: in like ancient Egypt and the Greeks and stuff like
Speaker 1: ancient Aliens. Man, do you not watch that show? Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it never I mean, it was never as as
Speaker 1: big a thing as it is nowadays. Though. Well, we
Speaker 1: weren't that interesting, or we weren't looking at up. We
Speaker 1: were busy doing others. We were looking at the ground.
Speaker 1: We're like, oh man, this pyramid is not going to build.
Speaker 1: Its cracked that with a little harder. Yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: think I think it's made up. I'm sorry, guys, No, really,
Speaker 1: I wholeheartedly agree. I think some people saw what they
Speaker 1: believe to be the same character. I'm not saying that
Speaker 1: what they saw and what they believed they saw is wrong,
Speaker 1: but I'm saying the ord into the story completely made up,
Speaker 1: and therefore they're operating off of skewed information. Yeah. Absolutely, yea,
Speaker 1: some of these people probably don't even exist. I mean,
Speaker 1: Woodrow did I don't know about the Frankie not Frankie,
Speaker 1: James and Marvin. Yeah, they're they're they're gone. They don't
Speaker 1: exist anymore. They're not. That's the one thing. Kiel never
Speaker 1: cites his sources. He's awful at it. So they're gone
Speaker 1: for all intents and purposes. Gone. Yeah. Yeah, Well they're
Speaker 1: probably still alive if they actually ever existed. That's my problem.
Speaker 1: I don't think they actually ever existed. Probably not. Well,
Speaker 1: we should wrap this up before it gets too dark,
Speaker 1: because I don't really want to have to go home
Speaker 1: in the dark. Well, I mean, you can wrap this
Speaker 1: up as fast as you want, Devon, but you gotta
Speaker 1: put all this equipment away, so you're kind of hosed here. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you probably know where you're listening to us, But
Speaker 1: if you want to read any of the links to
Speaker 1: the researcher, you can also leave a comment on our website.
Speaker 1: The website is Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. Also on
Speaker 1: the website there's links to our Patreon and uh donate
Speaker 1: button for PayPal, and then also a link to buy swag,
Speaker 1: which is pretty awesome. Sorry merch not swag. Swag is free. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. We can we don't give we give away
Speaker 1: the podcast. The podcast podcast is slag Um. You can
Speaker 1: also find us on iTunes, which you probably know by now.
Speaker 1: If you're listening to us on iTunes, please do give
Speaker 1: us a comment and a rating if you would like
Speaker 1: the probably a five star rating. Yeah, I don't really care.
Speaker 1: Kind of like those. I just ignore the one star,
Speaker 1: so it's fine. I don't even read them anymore. Um.
Speaker 1: You can find us on Facebook. We've got the group
Speaker 1: in the page find us, friend us, like us. You
Speaker 1: can find us on Twitter. We're thinking Sideways. We're okay
Speaker 1: at Twitter, I guess sometimes everyone we're in the RPG world.
Speaker 1: We're like a level two yeah at your handle maybe
Speaker 1: out of like possible. We're gonna level up soon, or
Speaker 1: you can. If you want to talk about any of
Speaker 1: this with us, you have suggestions, anything like that, send
Speaker 1: us an email Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. Um.
Speaker 1: I think with that we're going to get out of here.
Speaker 1: So it's not dark. Alright, Well, so long for this week, folks.
Speaker 1: And you can't tell, but I've got a huge unnatural
Speaker 1: granum and I'm standing outside your window. Okay, we'll talk
Speaker 1: to you next week. Is I have a really weird
Speaker 1: look on my face. That's true. Okay, talk to you
Speaker 1: guys later by