1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 1: Is this dramatic enough. Donald Trump indicted in Atlanta of 2 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,480 Speaker 1: refforts to overturn his twenty twenty election defeat in. 3 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,879 Speaker 2: Georgia back to the Middle East Israel, saying his troops 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:14,240 Speaker 2: are pushing deeper into Gaza City after encircling the northern 5 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:17,240 Speaker 2: part of the Palestinian enclave. The White Twenty twenty three 6 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:20,759 Speaker 2: now the hottest year on record. We saw those hot 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,840 Speaker 2: record temperatures affecting cities around the world. Ukraine's counteroffensive astalled 8 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 2: in recent weeks, even as the country continues to come 9 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 2: under attack from the air and on the ground. 10 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:36,880 Speaker 3: Twenty twenty three has been a year, a year of progress, 11 00:00:36,920 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 3: and a year of disruptive change for women and people 12 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 3: of color in particular. 13 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:44,080 Speaker 2: The case is an effort by a conservative legal group 14 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,960 Speaker 2: in Texas to limit abortion nationwide. A fatal blow to 15 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 2: affirmative action the Supreme Court ruling that the affirmative action 16 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 2: admission policies at Harvard and University of North Carolina are unconstitutional. 17 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 2: Disney's asking his workers to return to his office is 18 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 2: four days a week starting on March first. 19 00:01:03,480 --> 00:01:06,360 Speaker 3: So we wanted to take stock. How has the year 20 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 3: faired for equality efforts? Across all of these topics. Bloomberg 21 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:15,039 Speaker 3: Equality reporter Kelsey Butler says there has been progress, like 22 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 3: corporations hiring a more diverse workforce. 23 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 4: There were thirty nine companies, including Meta, Microsoft, Pepsi where 24 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,160 Speaker 4: they increase the number of black workers in like professionals 25 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:27,520 Speaker 4: executive categories. 26 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,480 Speaker 3: But as Bloomberg BusinessWeek senior writer Claire Seddeth puts it, 27 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 3: equality in America is a long game and progress can 28 00:01:35,240 --> 00:01:36,040 Speaker 3: be slow. 29 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,759 Speaker 5: If the Supreme Court can overrule the FDA and say 30 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:42,360 Speaker 5: that they know better about a drug that leads us 31 00:01:42,360 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 5: down a completely different path than the one we'd been 32 00:01:45,120 --> 00:01:47,160 Speaker 5: walking down as a country until now. 33 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 3: Kelsey and Claire are here to give us a roundup 34 00:01:49,960 --> 00:02:03,000 Speaker 3: of this year's equality news. I'm Nancy Cook today on 35 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:06,280 Speaker 3: the big take, what equality in America really means in 36 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,200 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three and what's ahead for twenty twenty four. 37 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:18,800 Speaker 3: So we're talking first about the equality gains made in 38 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 3: twenty twenty three. To start, Claire tell us about the 39 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 3: O pill and why it's notable. 40 00:02:24,320 --> 00:02:28,680 Speaker 5: Oh gosh, Well, it's been over sixty years since birth 41 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 5: control the pill has been available for women, but up 42 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,280 Speaker 5: until this year it has always been prescription only, and 43 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 5: so while millions and millions of women are on birth control. 44 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: There's still a lot of barriers to access. 45 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 5: You have to have a doctor, you have to have 46 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 5: access to healthcare, and so there are also millions of 47 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:47,200 Speaker 5: women who aren't on it. 48 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 1: An O pill is. 49 00:02:49,160 --> 00:02:52,680 Speaker 5: The very first FDA approved over the counter birth control 50 00:02:52,720 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 5: pill that you can just walk into a pharmacy and 51 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:55,920 Speaker 5: pick it up off the shelf. 52 00:02:56,880 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 3: And where does it fit into the landscape of options 53 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 3: that women have right now in terms of birth control? 54 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:05,840 Speaker 5: So if you're on birth control, you're probably not going 55 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 5: to switch to a pill because it's actually kind of 56 00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,440 Speaker 5: an old pill. It's progesterrine only, and most pills are 57 00:03:12,440 --> 00:03:16,239 Speaker 5: a combo of progestin and estrogen. It's very effective and 58 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 5: it works, and the reason why they picked that one 59 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:21,079 Speaker 5: is because they're sort of fewer side effects and more 60 00:03:21,080 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 5: people can take it, so it's safer for over the 61 00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 5: counter use. But it is a bit of an old pill, 62 00:03:26,080 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 5: and people tend not to pick progestrion only pills if 63 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,080 Speaker 5: they have a variety to choose from, so it's really 64 00:03:32,280 --> 00:03:34,640 Speaker 5: just filling the gap of people who aren't on any 65 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 5: form of birth control. It's probably not people switching from 66 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 5: prescription to over the counter, and. 67 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 3: So like, how many people having over the counter pill 68 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: like that? How many people could that help? And how 69 00:03:44,920 --> 00:03:47,800 Speaker 3: widespread do you think that could end up being. I 70 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 3: think it'll be millions of people. 71 00:03:49,800 --> 00:03:51,880 Speaker 5: It's not available on the market yet, it should be 72 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 5: early twenty twenty four, and it'll take some time for 73 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 5: the public to become aware of it, and so usually 74 00:03:58,040 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 5: it's several years before it kicks in. But I think 75 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 5: among especially teenagers who maybe do not have access to 76 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 5: birth control because they have to ask their parents if 77 00:04:07,920 --> 00:04:10,120 Speaker 5: they can go to a gynocologist or something like that, 78 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 5: and low income women who don't have health care, we're 79 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 5: talking in the tens of millions. 80 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 3: Claire, was this a long time coming? Having this over 81 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 3: the counter birth control pill? 82 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 5: In some ways, this has been on activist radar since 83 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:26,560 Speaker 5: the sixties. 84 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:31,160 Speaker 1: I would say in the last decade, maybe fifteen twenty years, 85 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 1: it has really picked up. 86 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 5: This was a joint effort among reproductive rights activists and 87 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 5: scientists to find the right pill, find a pharmaceutical company 88 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:43,320 Speaker 5: that is willing to jump through all the hurdles because 89 00:04:43,360 --> 00:04:45,680 Speaker 5: one of the interesting things is birth control is so 90 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,599 Speaker 5: widespread that pharmaceutical companies aren't making a ton of money 91 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 5: off of this, and so the hindrance in the past 92 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 5: was less that the FDA wasn't open to this. It 93 00:04:56,480 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 5: was that no drug company really thought it was worth 94 00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 5: their while. But Hi Pharmer, which is a French pharmaceutical company, 95 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 5: it was like, yes, you know what, we will do this. 96 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:06,919 Speaker 1: They did the same thing in Britain. 97 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 5: Actually, for the most part, this was a very smooth sailing, 98 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 5: which you can't really say that about very many things 99 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:15,640 Speaker 5: related to reproductive rights these days. 100 00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 3: One of the other huge things that happened in the 101 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 3: equality space in twenty twenty three was the labor economist 102 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 3: Claudia Golden won the twenty twenty three Economic Nobel Prize. 103 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 3: What did Golden win for and what was the biggest 104 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:31,320 Speaker 3: finding in her research? 105 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 4: Kelsey, Yeah, So I think what is notable about this 106 00:05:35,360 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 4: is it was multiple barriers broken here the first time 107 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 4: a woman had won this prize alone. But then what 108 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 4: Claudia Golden's work actually focuses on, which is about women 109 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 4: in the workplace and basically a lot of things that 110 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 4: we talk about now in this return to office environment, 111 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 4: which is the motherhood penalty as well, and where the 112 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,240 Speaker 4: pay gap really starts to accelerate, which often is after 113 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 4: the birth of a woman's first child. 114 00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 3: And apart from the motherhood penalty, what are some of 115 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 3: the other findings that she's known for. 116 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:13,679 Speaker 5: She sort of studied women's labor force participation throughout history, 117 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 5: and prior to her work, there was this sort of 118 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:20,279 Speaker 5: assumption that women quote unquote didn't work, and then suddenly 119 00:06:20,279 --> 00:06:22,440 Speaker 5: in the nineteen seventies they decided that they were going 120 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,479 Speaker 5: to start working, and oh, this is a brand new thing, 121 00:06:24,520 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 5: and oh my gosh, all these women are working. How 122 00:06:26,560 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 5: do we feel about working mothers? Et cetera, et cetera. 123 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 5: But what she showed was actually before the Industrial Revolution, 124 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:35,880 Speaker 5: when many people were working on farms and in a 125 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 5: more agricultural re based society, and as society shifted to 126 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 5: a more factory and office centered work model, women were 127 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:48,880 Speaker 5: left out of that. And so in some ways from 128 00:06:48,880 --> 00:06:51,440 Speaker 5: the nineteen seventies on, we've been sort of like returning 129 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 5: women to the workforce. But obviously it's a completely different 130 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:56,680 Speaker 5: work environment than it was before for them. 131 00:06:57,480 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 3: And how has our work on the gender pay gap 132 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:01,359 Speaker 3: been a applied to the modern workplace? 133 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:05,320 Speaker 4: So I wanted to highlight something interesting that she talked 134 00:07:05,360 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 4: about in a recent conversation with our colleague greed Picker, 135 00:07:08,200 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 4: after she won her prize, which is just kind of 136 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:14,920 Speaker 4: looking at the idea of both greedy jobs versus flexible jobs, 137 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:18,800 Speaker 4: and how we're kind of seeing an evolution of greedy 138 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 4: jobs that would take a lot from a person's time. 139 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 4: You know, for example, it was a job that maybe 140 00:07:22,920 --> 00:07:25,440 Speaker 4: you had to travel a lot, and we've seen kind 141 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:28,520 Speaker 4: of an evolution of that. In this push pull over 142 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:30,600 Speaker 4: work flexibility. 143 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:34,680 Speaker 6: We have flexible jobs that are becoming more productive. Think 144 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 6: about the flexible job that you were told, well, you 145 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:40,440 Speaker 6: can work part time twenty five hours a week. Well, 146 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:42,760 Speaker 6: that wasn't going to lead to very much of a 147 00:07:42,800 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 6: promotion possibility, but if you can now combine it with 148 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,840 Speaker 6: some remote work, that will be much better. So greedy 149 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:55,640 Speaker 6: jobs becoming more flexible, flexible jobs becoming more productive. 150 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 4: So I think it'll be really interesting to see see 151 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,960 Speaker 4: how some of this plays out going forward when we 152 00:08:04,000 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 4: look at how the workplace is evolving and what women's 153 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 4: advancement looks like in that environment. 154 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,000 Speaker 3: One of the other big stories of the last few 155 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 3: years is that labor data shows that big US companies 156 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 3: did hire more people of color after the Black Lives 157 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 3: Matter protests of twenty twenty. Bloomberg covered that data in 158 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,880 Speaker 3: the summer. What were the big takeaways? 159 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,680 Speaker 5: This is actually pretty fascinating. I want to start by 160 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 5: saying I did not participate in this. I am highlighting 161 00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,960 Speaker 5: my colleagues' work, but I'm happy to talk about it 162 00:08:35,960 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 5: because I think it's pretty awesome. They analyze employment data 163 00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,720 Speaker 5: for the S and P one hundred, which covers about 164 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:45,200 Speaker 5: nine million working Americans, and they found that of all 165 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,360 Speaker 5: of the jobs created in twenty twenty one, ninety four 166 00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:49,760 Speaker 5: percent went. 167 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:50,680 Speaker 1: To people of color. 168 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:54,520 Speaker 5: There are some caveats to that most of those jobs 169 00:08:54,760 --> 00:09:00,040 Speaker 5: were sort of lower or entry level positions, but the 170 00:09:00,120 --> 00:09:04,080 Speaker 5: minority hiring boom happened at all the ranks as well, 171 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 5: so executive, managerial, et cetera. And I think it's really 172 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 5: important because the dominant message from companies in the past 173 00:09:11,720 --> 00:09:14,720 Speaker 5: has been it's not our fault that we're so mail 174 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 5: or we're so white, because this is just the labor 175 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,000 Speaker 5: pool that we have to pull from. It's not our fault, 176 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 5: this is just you know, pipeline problem, et cetera. 177 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:23,680 Speaker 1: Et cetera. 178 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 5: And as you can see, when they actually sort of 179 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,079 Speaker 5: put their money where their mouth is and they're given 180 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 5: a reason to try to make a difference, they can 181 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:33,960 Speaker 5: do it. You know, this is just twenty twenty one data, 182 00:09:34,320 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 5: and since then we've had sort of a pullback on 183 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 5: DEI efforts, and so it's sort of not clear yet 184 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 5: whether this is going to be a blip or the 185 00:09:42,080 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 5: start of a real sort of long change, but it 186 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 5: is good to know that you can make a pretty 187 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 5: big difference in one year if you want to. So 188 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 5: I think it's really interesting is there are some companies 189 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 5: that made really big gains all across the top the 190 00:09:55,960 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 5: places where people get paid the most. There were thirty 191 00:09:59,200 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 5: nine companies, including Meta, Microsoft, PEPSI where they increase the 192 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 5: number of black workers in like professionals executive categories. And 193 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 5: I think that's really notable because yes, it is wonderful 194 00:10:12,120 --> 00:10:15,560 Speaker 5: to hire people at the kind of entry level, but 195 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:20,280 Speaker 5: we know that we have a kind of environment where last. 196 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:21,680 Speaker 1: Hired first fired. 197 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 4: So if you're just bringing in people at kind of 198 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,360 Speaker 4: the entry level, the lowest rung, those are people that 199 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 4: are going to be most likely to be cut in 200 00:10:29,440 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 4: kind of difficult economic times, and they're also not making 201 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,280 Speaker 4: the hiring decisions for the future either. 202 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 3: And this data, you know, we talked about how it 203 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 3: has a lag from twenty twenty one. When the twenty 204 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,320 Speaker 3: twenty two and twenty twenty three data come out, what 205 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 3: will you be looking for in particular? 206 00:10:45,080 --> 00:10:50,000 Speaker 4: I'll be looking at retention, honestly, because it's very easy 207 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 4: to ride the wave when other companies are talking about 208 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 4: racial equity and moving the needle on all this kind 209 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:00,880 Speaker 4: of stuff. But it's a little bit harder to kind 210 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:03,640 Speaker 4: of keep that going in the environment that we're in 211 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 4: right now, where it's not popular in any arena to 212 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 4: do anything that. 213 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:10,479 Speaker 1: Has a whiff of DEI. 214 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,679 Speaker 4: So I'll definitely be looking at retention and also advancement 215 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:17,680 Speaker 4: to see what those executive ranks, those positions of power 216 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 4: and companies look like. 217 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 1: Are those getting more. 218 00:11:20,240 --> 00:11:25,320 Speaker 3: Diverse when we're back from affirmative action to abortion medication, 219 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 3: two cases that have changed the US the most this year. 220 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 3: So we talked a little bit before about the progress 221 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:42,600 Speaker 3: the country has made on equality issues, but I'm curious 222 00:11:42,640 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 3: to hear more about how the country has also regressed 223 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 3: a little bit. Kelsey. You wrote about the Supreme Court's 224 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,120 Speaker 3: affirmative action ruling the day it was decided, what was 225 00:11:52,120 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 3: the expected impact of that ruling and what have we 226 00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,280 Speaker 3: seen with universities so far? 227 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:01,719 Speaker 4: Six months later, the Supreme Court decision essentially banned affirmative 228 00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 4: action at the university level. 229 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 1: So colleges are. 230 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 4: Going to have to reimagine how they make admissions decisions. 231 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 4: And that's what actually changed with that decision. But there 232 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:19,800 Speaker 4: was kind of this ripple effect that happened beyond colleges, 233 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:24,160 Speaker 4: which is now we're seeing a contribution to a chill 234 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:28,320 Speaker 4: in corporate America when it comes to dei or anything 235 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 4: that kind of seems affirmative action esque. 236 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 3: And can you tell me more what those knock on 237 00:12:34,640 --> 00:12:37,200 Speaker 3: effects have been from this ruling in corporate hiring? 238 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:38,280 Speaker 1: What have you seen? 239 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:42,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, So what we've really seen is legal challenges by 240 00:12:42,880 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 4: some of the same activists that sued Harvard and UNC 241 00:12:47,160 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 4: over their affirmative action policies now set their sights on companies. 242 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:57,440 Speaker 4: So conservative activists Edward Bloom, who was involved in the 243 00:12:57,440 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 4: Harvard case he hasn't organized that has also filed lawsuits 244 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 4: against law firms that have fellowship programs for those from 245 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 4: underrepresented populations and As a result to law, firms Morson, 246 00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 4: Enforcer and Perkins Qui have eliminated their diversity requirements. There 247 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,679 Speaker 4: have been other lawsuits for similar kind of diversity programs 248 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 4: at companies like Pfizer, and we've also seen those companies 249 00:13:24,880 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 4: take steps to basically open up their programs to everyone 250 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,800 Speaker 4: in order to not seem like they're discriminating. 251 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:35,080 Speaker 3: So are the companies just doing business totally differently now 252 00:13:35,120 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 3: after this ruling or is it just they're pairing back 253 00:13:38,160 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 3: their diversity program slightly. What does that look like? 254 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:46,520 Speaker 4: I think we're seeing kind of three modes of addressing this, 255 00:13:46,679 --> 00:13:49,640 Speaker 4: and one is companies that we're just kind of doing 256 00:13:50,040 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 4: what everybody else was doing in twenty twenty and putting 257 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 4: out a statement certainly pulling back, and that's to be expected. 258 00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 4: They didn't really have an infrastructure around DEI, so it's 259 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,679 Speaker 4: not much to scale that back. Then we have companies 260 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:05,559 Speaker 4: that are being very forceful that they're going to keep 261 00:14:05,600 --> 00:14:08,640 Speaker 4: doing what they're doing and they're not going to change 262 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 4: at all, and that's obviously a smaller up pool of 263 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,000 Speaker 4: companies that are deciding to kind of stick their heads. 264 00:14:14,800 --> 00:14:17,560 Speaker 1: Up on that. And then what we have that is 265 00:14:17,800 --> 00:14:19,120 Speaker 1: a larger. 266 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 4: Kind of population is companies that are doing the same 267 00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:23,200 Speaker 4: things that they're doing, they're just. 268 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 1: Being less vocal about it. 269 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 4: And the data kind of bears that out. There was 270 00:14:27,920 --> 00:14:31,440 Speaker 4: a survey in October of professionals that work in corporate 271 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:36,440 Speaker 4: responsibility and more than eighty percent said that they had 272 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 4: changed the language they used to talk about work or 273 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:43,240 Speaker 4: cut down on external comms about their DEI efforts, But 274 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:46,720 Speaker 4: only ten percent said that they had actually decreased their programs. 275 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:49,280 Speaker 4: So they're just being quieter about it. Makes my job 276 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 4: a little harder to get them to talk to me. 277 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 4: But doing things like tweaking language on websites and really 278 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 4: lawyer proofing everything seems to be the route a lot 279 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:00,640 Speaker 4: of company are taking. 280 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 3: And what's the argument that these conservative groups that are 281 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:09,000 Speaker 3: suing the companies that they're making and apart from sort 282 00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 3: of universities and companies, what do you see as their 283 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 3: next target. 284 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: As far as the next target. 285 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,160 Speaker 4: I don't think they're quite done with corporate America yet. 286 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:19,960 Speaker 1: You know, we still haven't had a. 287 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:25,680 Speaker 4: Very definitive answer from the Supreme Court on diversity programs 288 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 4: like the ones that we're talking about. In this kind 289 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:32,560 Speaker 4: of corporate context, so I think we'll certainly see a 290 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 4: lot more of that going forward. The argument that's really 291 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 4: being made is that by singling out a specific group 292 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 4: of people that in and of itself is discrimination. If 293 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:45,480 Speaker 4: you have a fellowship that is for black and Latina professionals, 294 00:15:45,480 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 4: for example, then you're leaving out the rest of the 295 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:52,600 Speaker 4: population that doesn't fit into that bucket, despite the fact 296 00:15:52,640 --> 00:15:55,960 Speaker 4: that the people that are targeted by these programs, you know, 297 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,440 Speaker 4: have had historical disadvantages in the US. 298 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 3: I want to talk little bit next about abortion medication 299 00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 3: and how it was put at risk by Texas court ruling. 300 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 3: Kelsey remind us what mepha pristone is and how long 301 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 3: it's been around. 302 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 4: So mifa pristone is known as the abortion pill. It's 303 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,520 Speaker 4: one of two medications that is commonly used in the 304 00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 4: US to end pregnancy. It's been around for years, been 305 00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 4: proven to be safe and effective at ending pregnancies. 306 00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 3: What did the Fifth Circuit Court judge rule and what 307 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:28,000 Speaker 3: happened after that ruling? 308 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 4: So right now we're in really a status quo situation 309 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 4: that's because of an April order from the Supreme Court. 310 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:40,000 Speaker 4: So basically, mepha pristone, which is known as the abortion pill, 311 00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:44,400 Speaker 4: is available up until about ten weeks of pregnancy and 312 00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:48,280 Speaker 4: via telemedicine. And that's obviously, you know, in the states 313 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 4: where abortion is still legal. So the Supreme Court has 314 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,440 Speaker 4: decided they're going to take up a case that is 315 00:16:54,520 --> 00:16:59,160 Speaker 4: going to determine how widely available mepha pristone is going forward. 316 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 4: And really that's because there was an appeals court decision 317 00:17:04,359 --> 00:17:08,240 Speaker 4: in August that essentially would roll back the clock to 318 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 4: twenty sixteen and the rules and restrictions that existed around 319 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:17,200 Speaker 4: mefipristone then, so the cutoff for it was a little 320 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:21,600 Speaker 4: bit earlier, around seven weeks gestation, and it wasn't available 321 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,160 Speaker 4: via mail or telemedicine at that time. And the Supreme 322 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,080 Speaker 4: Court is going to make a decision on that before 323 00:17:27,119 --> 00:17:29,280 Speaker 4: the end of the term around next June. 324 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:33,120 Speaker 3: And what would happen if the courts do revoke access 325 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 3: to it? What's the potential impact? Does that mean you 326 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:36,280 Speaker 3: just can't get it? 327 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,760 Speaker 4: I don't think we can underplay the impact of mefi 328 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:43,479 Speaker 4: pristone like no longer being available. The reason being, if 329 00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:46,040 Speaker 4: you look at all the data, more than half of 330 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 4: abortions done in the US are via medication and early 331 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 4: in pregnancy. So it is a very commonly used method 332 00:17:56,760 --> 00:18:01,159 Speaker 4: of ending a pregnancy right now, and any curtailing of 333 00:18:01,200 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 4: that would have huge ramifications, especially as we've already seen 334 00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 4: abortion access get decimated in the last two years. 335 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:12,320 Speaker 3: And can you just put that into the broader context 336 00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:16,359 Speaker 3: of access to abortion now? Since the Supreme Court overturned 337 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,560 Speaker 3: Roe Vweight in twenty twenty two, how does this ruling 338 00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:21,000 Speaker 3: on the abortion pill fit into that. 339 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 4: As of right now, there are fourteen states where abortion 340 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 4: is pretty much banned. There are exceptions, but so limited 341 00:18:32,160 --> 00:18:34,200 Speaker 4: and narrow that it's almost to the point of them 342 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:39,360 Speaker 4: not existing. So we look at this as any attacks 343 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 4: on mefapristone are just another part of this chipping awave 344 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,800 Speaker 4: that we've seen for reproductive healthcare in the US, and 345 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:49,000 Speaker 4: we're already starting to see data. It's obviously very early 346 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:53,160 Speaker 4: so far, but just the impact that these abortion bands 347 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:56,480 Speaker 4: are having. There was a recent study that I just 348 00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 4: rode up which said that as many as one in 349 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:04,000 Speaker 4: four people that wanted abortions since ro versus Weight was overturned, 350 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,359 Speaker 4: we're not able to access them. Led to uptick in 351 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 4: berths in states with these bands, and people that were young, 352 00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,719 Speaker 4: like in their twenties. Hispanic women were among those that 353 00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:19,399 Speaker 4: were most impacted by those bands. So we're already starting 354 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,840 Speaker 4: to see data around this, and you know, any further 355 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:25,159 Speaker 4: erosion is just going to compound it. 356 00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 1: It's pretty bleak. 357 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 5: I think the thing to highlight is also that this 358 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 5: is a drug that is widely considered safe. What they're 359 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:35,800 Speaker 5: challenging is the FDA's approval of it. So it also 360 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 5: calls into question, you know, if the Supreme Court or 361 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,919 Speaker 5: court can overrule the FDA and say that they know 362 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,400 Speaker 5: better about a drug that leads us down a completely 363 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 5: different path than the one we'd been walking down as 364 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 5: a country until now. 365 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 1: And while most of. 366 00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:55,960 Speaker 5: The political arguments as it relates to medication and healthcare 367 00:19:56,359 --> 00:20:00,000 Speaker 5: relate to women and reproductive rights because of how controversial 368 00:20:00,080 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 5: abortion is, technically this would be a ruling against the FDA, 369 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 5: and so it really weakens the FDA, and I think 370 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:10,239 Speaker 5: it makes a lot of people nervous about sort of 371 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 5: political and judicial oversight of what should be a standalone agency. 372 00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:20,879 Speaker 3: After the break, Kelsey and Claire tell us what stories 373 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 3: they're watching for twenty twenty four. So I want to 374 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 3: talk about what we should watch for in twenty twenty 375 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 3: four and what's ahead for equality issues. I'm particularly interested 376 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:41,480 Speaker 3: in childcare. I know that you both have written a 377 00:20:41,520 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 3: lot about that. Claire, briefly, what is the funding cliff 378 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 3: that the US childcare industry experienced in September? Can you 379 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 3: tell me more about that. 380 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:51,640 Speaker 1: I'm going to roll back for a few years. 381 00:20:51,640 --> 00:20:54,639 Speaker 5: But if you remember in twenty twenty, when the pandemic 382 00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,800 Speaker 5: started and people were pulling their children out of daycares 383 00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:01,360 Speaker 5: and childcare centers because of fears that they would catch COVID, 384 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,360 Speaker 5: and all of these childcare centers started falling apart essentially 385 00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 5: and going out of business. The federal government put a 386 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 5: lot of their money into the pandemic relief efforts, into 387 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:14,880 Speaker 5: the Cares Act specifically, I think, into propping up this industry, 388 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 5: because this is an industry that was failing before COVID 389 00:21:19,119 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 5: came along, and it just gutted them, and so they 390 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 5: gave them a bunch of money, and businesses were able 391 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,040 Speaker 5: to stay open. And then when families came back after 392 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:35,359 Speaker 5: the pandemic, they were struggling but open. But then the 393 00:21:35,359 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 5: pandemic relief money ran out, And the fundamental problem is 394 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,119 Speaker 5: that childcare workers are so underpaid that many of them 395 00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,800 Speaker 5: left the industry because they could get a better paying 396 00:21:45,880 --> 00:21:50,800 Speaker 5: job at McDonald's. Essentially, so childcare centers may be technically 397 00:21:50,800 --> 00:21:53,639 Speaker 5: in business, but they literally can't hire enough workers. And 398 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,119 Speaker 5: the only way that they can hire them is to 399 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 5: raise prices. But the prices are so high already that 400 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,240 Speaker 5: then people are leaving. And it's just this like slow 401 00:22:02,359 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 5: crumbling of an entire industry, and unfortunately, it is the 402 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 5: backbone of our entire economy because women make up half 403 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:09,400 Speaker 5: of the economy. 404 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 3: And what are the potential on the ground effects in 405 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,840 Speaker 3: the coming months with this funding gone. 406 00:22:15,680 --> 00:22:18,840 Speaker 5: I think what you're seeing is a lot of daycares 407 00:22:18,880 --> 00:22:22,240 Speaker 5: closing or limiting the number of students that they can take. 408 00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:24,399 Speaker 5: You know, I think it'll be a while before we 409 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,840 Speaker 5: get statistical data on it, but I anecdotally have already 410 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:29,080 Speaker 5: been talking to people. 411 00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 1: I talked to one woman in Indiana. 412 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:33,760 Speaker 5: Who had to quit her job because she called I 413 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:37,440 Speaker 5: think sixty daycares trying to take her eighteen month old 414 00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,879 Speaker 5: and they said they didn't have a spond so she 415 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 5: just quit. 416 00:22:41,280 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: So you're going to. 417 00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,719 Speaker 5: See a lot of women leaving the workforce. We're going 418 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,160 Speaker 5: to see a lot of people also leaving the workforce 419 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 5: because of the spots that are available. Their prices have 420 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 5: risen so much that families can't afford it, and so 421 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,000 Speaker 5: one of the parents is going to stay home, and 422 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 5: it's almost always the mother, and it's just I think 423 00:22:58,560 --> 00:22:59,760 Speaker 5: it's going to get pretty. 424 00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:04,920 Speaker 3: Bleak and Kelsey on this story. What are you looking 425 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 3: for in the next year with the childcare industry in 426 00:23:07,960 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 3: the situation? 427 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:10,640 Speaker 1: Some of the research that. 428 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:13,119 Speaker 4: We've seen gives us a sense as to what the 429 00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:18,879 Speaker 4: projected impact could be. Potentially seventy thousand childcare programs closing, 430 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,920 Speaker 4: which means three point two million kids could be left 431 00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 4: without spots in childcare. That's potentially millions of families that 432 00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:30,240 Speaker 4: are going to have their care disrupted. And what we've 433 00:23:30,280 --> 00:23:34,320 Speaker 4: seen already, even since September, is that backup plans are 434 00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 4: not that easy to come by. I wrote about this 435 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,760 Speaker 4: in our newsletter. A person who had already spent months 436 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:44,520 Speaker 4: and months trying to find a spot for her toddler 437 00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,080 Speaker 4: in daycare so that she could return to work after 438 00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:50,000 Speaker 4: like a five year break to be. 439 00:23:50,240 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: At home, and. 440 00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 4: That very first week, the child's care center closed for 441 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,919 Speaker 4: a week because it was a home daycare and the 442 00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 4: person had, you know, their own family emergency. So this 443 00:24:02,320 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 4: person then had to go scramble and find backup care, 444 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,640 Speaker 4: which wasn't necessarily the easiest thing to do and ended 445 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 4: up being more expensive than her typical care. So I 446 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 4: think we're going to see a slow drip drip. You know, 447 00:24:14,280 --> 00:24:18,119 Speaker 4: all those seventy thousand centers didn't close on October first, 448 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 4: But we're going to see some close over time, some 449 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:24,359 Speaker 4: raise prices to try to make it work, some cut 450 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:27,600 Speaker 4: down the number of kids it ca intake, and ultimately 451 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 4: we're going to see this ripple into what parents and 452 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 4: specifically moms are able to do at work, whether that 453 00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:38,480 Speaker 4: means cut their hours, change the industry that they're in, 454 00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 4: or leave work altogether. 455 00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:41,919 Speaker 1: That's the biggest thing I'll be watching. 456 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:46,040 Speaker 3: I'm also really curious about the battles over return to 457 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:50,280 Speaker 3: office versus work from home and how those are hurting mothers. Claire, 458 00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 3: you've written about the push by some companies to have 459 00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:55,199 Speaker 3: people back in the office and how that can affect mothers. 460 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 3: Can you talk about the moment we're in right now? 461 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,160 Speaker 5: Yeah, And before where I start, I want to start 462 00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,639 Speaker 5: with the caveat that, like, this is for a subset. 463 00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: Of our labor force. 464 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:08,919 Speaker 5: You know, this is primarily a college educated, white collar 465 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:13,399 Speaker 5: dusk workers. But among that group, as you're well aware, 466 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,000 Speaker 5: during the pandemic, there was the shift from jobs that 467 00:25:17,119 --> 00:25:19,560 Speaker 5: had been in person five days a week, nine to five, 468 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:23,760 Speaker 5: nine to seven, let's be honest, and you know, make 469 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:26,440 Speaker 5: those fully remote. And it stayed that way for two 470 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,040 Speaker 5: and a half to three years. And talking to working 471 00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 5: moms during that time, they discovered that while it is 472 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 5: never possible to have it all quote unquote, they could 473 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 5: have a lot more of it than they did before. 474 00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,760 Speaker 5: They were able to pick their kids up from school, 475 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,600 Speaker 5: they were able to eat dinner with their families, they 476 00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,160 Speaker 5: were able to make the school plays in the soccer games, 477 00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 5: and basically be a full time employee and a more 478 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:57,600 Speaker 5: present parent. And so then in the push to go 479 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:01,679 Speaker 5: back into the office, there can learned have been I 480 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 5: would say, largely ignored when you look at surveys like 481 00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,439 Speaker 5: McKinsey does their annual Women in the Workplace survey that 482 00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,600 Speaker 5: they do every year, and they don't focus specifically on 483 00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:15,640 Speaker 5: working moms, but so many women after a certain age 484 00:26:15,760 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 5: are mothers that in their survey, it's like eighty percent 485 00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 5: of women rank having the option to be remote or 486 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 5: having flexibility in their schedule as only the second most 487 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:31,440 Speaker 5: important thing in their job after healthcare. So they need 488 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 5: health interns, and then they need to be able to 489 00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:37,440 Speaker 5: also be a mom. And yet when you talk to employers, 490 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:40,920 Speaker 5: only forty percent of employers even recognize that this is 491 00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 5: an issue for them. And so I think you're seeing 492 00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:49,280 Speaker 5: an increasingly vocal push among working moms to ask for 493 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 5: that flexibility and to retain what they already had, Like 494 00:26:53,080 --> 00:26:55,320 Speaker 5: they're not asking for something new, they're asking to. 495 00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,840 Speaker 1: Keep what they had had for the past three years. 496 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 5: And anecdotally, I've interviewed a lot of women who have 497 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,720 Speaker 5: just flat out with their jobs. That's not possible for 498 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,880 Speaker 5: everyone because financial constraints, that need for healthcare. Maybe they're 499 00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:12,000 Speaker 5: the only breadwinner or the primary breadwinner in their family 500 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 5: and they. 501 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:13,440 Speaker 1: Have to keep their job. 502 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:15,879 Speaker 5: But I have to tell you, they're an awful lot 503 00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,320 Speaker 5: of women who are like, Nope, I'm not doing this 504 00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:21,440 Speaker 5: because I value my family and my children way more 505 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:23,880 Speaker 5: than commuting into the office. 506 00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:25,400 Speaker 1: And I think that's a conversation that. 507 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 5: We aren't really having, which I find really interesting, which is. 508 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:30,960 Speaker 1: Why I'm writing about it. So that's what I'm keeping 509 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:31,399 Speaker 1: an eye on. 510 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,800 Speaker 3: And Claire, what are going to be the key data 511 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,080 Speaker 3: points that you are going to look for on this 512 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,960 Speaker 3: story that really tells us what is happening over the 513 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:41,480 Speaker 3: next year. 514 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:44,399 Speaker 5: I'm sort of glad you asked that, because one of 515 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 5: the things in reporting on this that I have found 516 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:51,359 Speaker 5: incredibly frustrating is that working mother's, as like a facet 517 00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:55,440 Speaker 5: of the labor force, are vastly understudied. So I've talked 518 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 5: to so many economists who are like, you know, I 519 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 5: can tell you how many working parents there are, or 520 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:03,840 Speaker 5: maybe how many working mothers, but I can't tell you 521 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:06,720 Speaker 5: how many working mothers who went remote, who came back, 522 00:28:06,760 --> 00:28:10,439 Speaker 5: who were leaving. It's a very nitty gritty question that 523 00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:14,400 Speaker 5: I'm asking. So I'm mostly just frustrated by the number 524 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 5: of economists who have said, oh, that's something we should 525 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:19,280 Speaker 5: maybe study, but you know what, we haven't studied it yet. 526 00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:24,359 Speaker 5: When there are surveys about American mothers, they're usually not 527 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,280 Speaker 5: done by the government. There's a website called Motherly that's 528 00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:31,199 Speaker 5: like a media parenting organization, but they put out this 529 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 5: massive state of Motherhood Report every year where they survey 530 00:28:34,640 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 5: like tens of thousands of moms. It's like the most 531 00:28:37,520 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 5: comprehensive study, even though it's done by just like this website. 532 00:28:42,520 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 5: But this year they saw an enormous uptick in the 533 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,080 Speaker 5: number of women identifying as stay at home moms. It 534 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,520 Speaker 5: was like fifteen percent last year and now it's twenty 535 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,280 Speaker 5: five percent because they're leaving because of the child's care 536 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 5: problems that we've talked about and because of this push 537 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:56,400 Speaker 5: to go back. 538 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:57,240 Speaker 1: Into the office. 539 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 5: And so I'm seeing it in surveys like that hasn't 540 00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:03,360 Speaker 5: yet started playing out in the official like Fereau of 541 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 5: Labor Statistics type data. And I also want to say, 542 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,040 Speaker 5: like we're talking about a few percentage points here and there, 543 00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 5: but like I think it's like seventy seven percent of 544 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:15,520 Speaker 5: mothers of elementary school age children and up work, and 545 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 5: it's like sixty eight percent of mothers with kids under six, 546 00:29:19,320 --> 00:29:22,640 Speaker 5: which is a nine percent difference. But like you know, 547 00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 5: when the unemployment rate ticks up one percent two percent, 548 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,520 Speaker 5: everyone gets really upset and starts talking about fears of 549 00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:31,200 Speaker 5: a recession. We're talking about a huge chunk of the 550 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:32,959 Speaker 5: labor force that we're just missing out on. 551 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,520 Speaker 4: You know, the idea of the return to office debates 552 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 4: and the idea of child'scare are really intertwined because in 553 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,160 Speaker 4: many cases, it's not that women don't want to commute 554 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 4: to and from work, it's just it's not feasible in 555 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 4: the system that we have that is crumbling. So childcare 556 00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,560 Speaker 4: centers were open far longer pre pandemic. 557 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: They've had to in many cases cut hours. 558 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,560 Speaker 4: So in a lot of instances, a mom may not 559 00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:03,000 Speaker 4: be able to make it work if she doesn't have 560 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:04,000 Speaker 4: a remote position. 561 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:05,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's a good point. 562 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,040 Speaker 5: And also, you know, I think when you're talking about childcare, 563 00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 5: school counts as child'scare because your children are being cared 564 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,160 Speaker 5: for while they're being taught. But the school day ends 565 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 5: at like three o'clock in the afternoon or two thirty sometimes, 566 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,040 Speaker 5: and so usually working parents have some sort of aftercare setup, 567 00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 5: and sometimes it's a flat fee, but sometimes you pay hourly. 568 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 5: I have two small children and one is in daycare now, 569 00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 5: and it's a flat fee up to a certain point, 570 00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 5: and then it's hourly after that. So the longer I work, 571 00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 5: the more I pay, but my salary is still the 572 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,800 Speaker 5: same and so as these prices are rising, you know 573 00:30:39,840 --> 00:30:42,600 Speaker 5: you're also going to see people make these calculations of like, well, 574 00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:44,800 Speaker 5: we can afford daycare but only to such and such 575 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:46,800 Speaker 5: time during the day, or we can only put our 576 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 5: kid in for this many hours. 577 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 3: Kelsey and Claire, I learned so much from both of you. 578 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:52,840 Speaker 3: Thanks so much for coming. 579 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,480 Speaker 1: On, Thank you, Thank you so much for having us, 580 00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:57,840 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. 581 00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,320 Speaker 3: To us here at The Big Take. It's a daily 582 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 3: podcast for I'm Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more shows from iHeartRadio, 583 00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 3: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, Bloomberg CarPlay, or wherever 584 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,440 Speaker 3: you listen, and we'd love to hear from you. Email 585 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 3: us with questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg 586 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 3: dot net. This episode of The Big Take was produced 587 00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 3: by Michael Falero and Moe Barrow. Raphael I'm se Lee 588 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:24,400 Speaker 3: is our engineer. Our original music is by Leo Sidron. 589 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:28,480 Speaker 3: I'm Nancy Cook. We'll be back tomorrow with another Big Take.