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Speaker 1: Welcome to Had of Money.

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Speaker 2: I'm Joel and I am Mat.

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Speaker 1: And today we're talking food stamps to financial freedom with

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Speaker 1: Yanelli Espinal.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Our guest today has journeyed from food stamps

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Speaker 2: to financial freedom, and we're going to hear all about

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Speaker 2: how she was able to accomplish that. We are joined

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Speaker 2: today by Yanelli, who is also known as Misbe Helpful.

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Speaker 2: She is the first generation daughter of immigrants. She was

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Speaker 2: born in Brooklyn, and it didn't take her long to

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Speaker 2: rack up twenty thousand dollars in credit card debt before

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Speaker 2: she realized that this was not the life that she

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Speaker 2: wanted to lead. She started her career as a teacher

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Speaker 2: and then parlayed that into serving as the director of

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Speaker 2: educational outreach at next Gen Personal Finance. And now she's

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Speaker 2: recently published her first book, Mind Your Money, and she's

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Speaker 2: currently actually on a political roller coaster right across the

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Speaker 2: country where she's convincing lawmakers to make personal finance a

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Speaker 2: high school graduation requirement. We are excited to talk about

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Speaker 2: all of that and more today. Janellie, thank you for

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Speaker 2: joining us on the podcast.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much for having me. What's up guy,

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Speaker 3: I'm so excited for this conversation.

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Speaker 4: I really am.

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Speaker 1: We're stoked too. We're stoked. We saw you speak in

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Speaker 1: person last year at fin Con, which is the nerdy

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Speaker 1: conference that money. Yeah, ridiculous people who are interested in

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Speaker 1: money to ridiculous for money and media meets right, and

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Speaker 1: Janelli rocked it. She was I think probably the best

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Speaker 1: speaker of the evening for sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so really, Now, when when you had the book

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Speaker 1: come out, We're like, okay, well it's time to get

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Speaker 1: Youanelly on the show. For ye It's it's been too

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Speaker 1: How have you not done this?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 4: I love that.

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Speaker 1: But the first first question we ask everyone who comes

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Speaker 1: on the show, you, Nelly, is what do you like

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Speaker 1: to supplore John Matt and I We drink a lot

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Speaker 1: of craft Yeah.

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Speaker 2: A lot, just the right amount.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, not too much, absolutely, but we drink expensive beers.

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Speaker 1: It's something you like to spend more than the average

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Speaker 1: person on. Uh, it's something that we we like to

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Speaker 1: prioritize in the here and now, even while we're being

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Speaker 1: trying to be smart wise with our money, save and

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Speaker 1: invest for the future. But what is that for you?

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Speaker 4: Right? For me?

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Speaker 3: I would say it's definitely getting deep tissue full body massages.

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Speaker 4: I am like, I don't know, it's so weird.

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Speaker 3: Because like I'm not like, you know, an io masaka

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Speaker 3: or anything, like I'm not going and having like a

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Speaker 3: personalized like masseuse in my home all day every day.

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Speaker 3: But I work a lot, in my computer a lot,

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Speaker 3: I exercise a lot, and I feel like because I'm

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Speaker 3: so passionate, so animated, and like I use my hands

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Speaker 3: to talk and I hold tension like in my body,

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Speaker 3: in my face, in my neck, my arm.

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Speaker 4: So after like a really intense.

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Speaker 3: Week, I just feel the pressure, like the tension like

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Speaker 3: in my body, and there's nothing like a full body

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Speaker 3: deep tissue massage, like really getting the knots out of

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Speaker 3: my back, super relax seeing, just letting go of everything.

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Speaker 3: It's almost meditative too, because my mind's like not really

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Speaker 3: thinking about anything and and just enjoying, you know, this

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Speaker 3: moment of relaxation. And So for an hour every month

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Speaker 3: at least I try and go, if not more than

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Speaker 3: once a month, depending on how hectic the month is.

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Speaker 3: But I'll sometimes spend you know, upwards of two hundred

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Speaker 3: and fifty dollars if it's like at a fancy resort

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Speaker 3: or spot or something. And if I'm traveling to really

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Speaker 3: you know, get a nice, high quality deep tissue massage.

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Speaker 1: Well that is yeah, that sounds awesome. I'm in for that.

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Speaker 1: And so you said, like, yeah, once a month or so,

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Speaker 1: which is not cheap. I will say too that that

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Speaker 1: is the only time I'm able to shut my mind off,

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Speaker 1: is like a massage, and I don't do it enough.

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Speaker 1: And so see when I do it, I shut my mind,

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Speaker 1: I fall asleep.

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Speaker 4: Yeah so that do a lot of people do fall asleep. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: I just I don't know. I enjoy it. I'm I'm rested,

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Speaker 4: but I'm definitely.

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Speaker 3: A week all the way.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, you get it more offen me. For me,

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Speaker 2: it's like once every like two or three years tops.

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Speaker 4: Oh my gosh.

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Speaker 1: Nothing, I'm trying to prioritize to you.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to do yeah, joelst into the massage, just

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Speaker 2: getting back into it. But well, okay, thank you for

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Speaker 2: sharing that you Nelly. And by the way, yeah, two fifty.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's that's a lot sold the money.

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Speaker 3: That's a lot like and that's really only when I'm

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Speaker 3: like at a fancy resort or like you know, if

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Speaker 3: I'm if I'm out traveling or something. I met a

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Speaker 3: hotel that pretty much is like the only place you

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Speaker 3: get a massage is gonna be that price. But for

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Speaker 3: the most part, when I go to my local massage place,

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Speaker 3: it'll be like one hundred and twenty bucks.

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Speaker 2: Okay did they did they give you the car or

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Speaker 2: you get like ten of them.

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Speaker 4: And they like, I see the number of free massages

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Speaker 4: I've got, and I kind of feel bad.

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Speaker 1: I'm again I'm talking about I love it your frequent

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Speaker 1: fly You're like, you want to be frugal while you're

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Speaker 1: spending your.

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Speaker 4: Money exactly, That's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, just because it's a splurge doesn't mean you shouldn't

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Speaker 2: be kind of smart about it.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: It's like, hey, let's still find a way to say

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Speaker 2: someoney here, but you know, let's let's kind of talk

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Speaker 2: about your your money history, and I just kind of

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Speaker 2: like your personal history a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Uh.

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Speaker 2: You start your book talking about and interaction maybe an

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Speaker 2: altercation that you had with your sister. You were along

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Speaker 2: with her, but what happened and what did you learn

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Speaker 2: about money from sort of getting this this head smack?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so I definitely got smacked with my sister I

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Speaker 3: in describing the book as like she knocked on the

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Speaker 3: top of my head, like she would knock on the door,

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Speaker 3: and if my sister often did that. So I kind

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Speaker 3: of grew up in an environment where it's you know,

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Speaker 3: tough love like and not that it was like extremely

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Speaker 3: abusive or physically violent, but oftentimes get smacked around or

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Speaker 3: like you know, knuckles on the head. And so in

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Speaker 3: this case, I was in the backyard. I was just

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Speaker 3: sweeping with my chores, and my sister yelled out to

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Speaker 3: me in the backyard and asked me where my mom

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Speaker 3: had went. And I, you know, oftentimes mom would go

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Speaker 3: in and out of the house. My mom was always

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Speaker 3: you know, at appointments at church or you know, parent

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Speaker 3: teacher conferences or whatever kind of related to kids or

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Speaker 3: her own hobbies. But I honestly couldn't remember like where

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Speaker 3: mom went. And so I was thinking, like, did.

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Speaker 4: You go to the doctor? Did she go to the

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Speaker 4: post office? Like I don't remember?

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Speaker 3: And then and then it hit me that she told

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Speaker 3: me she was going to an appointment at the welfare office,

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Speaker 3: which she called the fetchal fey, and I in my

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Speaker 3: book I had specifically mentioned that term because I didn't

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Speaker 3: know what it was. But later on as an adult,

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Speaker 3: I saw on paper that she had a face to

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Speaker 3: face appointment in order to renew her food stamps, and

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Speaker 3: it just I put two and two together, and I

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Speaker 3: was like, Oh, she had been trying to pronounce a

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Speaker 3: face to face but she's she's saying it with her

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Speaker 3: Thiketominican accent, a fitch a fee. But I'm put two

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Speaker 3: and together that she was going to an appointment at

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Speaker 3: the welfare office. So I yelled that out at the

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Speaker 3: top of my lungs in the backyard, and my sister

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Speaker 3: was so upset at me that I would yell and

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Speaker 3: tell everyone on our block the you know, our personal

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Speaker 3: business and you know, put mom's business on blasts like that,

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Speaker 3: and so she was really mad at me, and I

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Speaker 3: while I didn't understand exactly why, you know, she was

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Speaker 3: so upset, I knew that it had something to do

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Speaker 3: with money. And the message, the clear message that I

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Speaker 3: got from my sister, you know, during that incident, was

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Speaker 3: that like, we don't talk about money. We don't tell

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Speaker 3: people what we have, what we don't have, we don't

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Speaker 3: tell our personal business like that, and talking about money

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Speaker 3: is more taboo and it's a private thing, so you

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Speaker 3: know from a very young age. I think I was

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Speaker 3: probably eight or nine years old when that happened, and I

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Speaker 3: remember kind of being shushed and silenced around money.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like that is maybe not exactly the

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Speaker 1: way it played out for you. But that's that's kind

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Speaker 1: of a lesson that a lot of us learn in childhood, right,

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Speaker 1: is that money is the taboos not to be talked about.

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Speaker 1: It's like I was telling math the other day my

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Speaker 1: oldest daughter, She said, Dad, how much money do we have?

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Speaker 1: Like for real overall? And you want to entertain those

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Speaker 1: questions and have a discussion about you don't want But

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Speaker 1: a lot of parents want to shut that down. Yes, right,

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Speaker 1: and so we have what's your take on I guess

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Speaker 1: having money conversations, especially with kids. I don't think you

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Speaker 1: have any of your own yet. But but why is

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Speaker 1: it so important to open up the conversation around money

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Speaker 1: and inside of a home?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: So actually in that same section of the book, I

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Speaker 3: talk about the reason why it's so important to talk

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Speaker 3: about this at an early age. There was actually a

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Speaker 3: study conducted with college students and it showed that parents

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Speaker 3: who avoided talking about money predicted the worst type of

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Speaker 3: problematic credit card usage among those college students. So they

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Speaker 3: really they looked at the experiment and they broke down

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Speaker 3: the students into groups of the parents who talked about

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Speaker 3: money in a positive way, the parents who talked about

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Speaker 3: money in a negative way, and the parents who avoided

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Speaker 3: money talk like, just never talked about money at all.

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Speaker 3: And you would think that the parents who talked about

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Speaker 3: money negatively would be the ones to pass down problematic,

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Speaker 3: you know, money behaviors to their children, but that was

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Speaker 3: not the case. They were not nearly as bad as

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Speaker 3: the problematic behavior demonstrated by the students whose parents never

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Speaker 3: talked about money at all. So for me, like, and

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Speaker 3: you're right, I don't have children on my own, but

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Speaker 3: I'm the world's best auntie. You have ten nieces, and

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Speaker 3: you know I've helped them open WRAWI race because Soldio

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Speaker 3: raf I raise. I've found their five twenty nine plans

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Speaker 3: for their birthdays every year. I mean, I'm very involved

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Speaker 3: in sharing with them, opening and talking with them about

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Speaker 3: what I'm doing, why I'm doing it. And I think

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Speaker 3: that as early as kids start to ask you for

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Speaker 3: money or talk about money to you, that's the perfect

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Speaker 3: opportunity at that age to start talking to them about

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Speaker 3: the value of money, how hard it is to earn money,

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Speaker 3: and what different things you can do with money, because most,

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Speaker 3: you know, kids think, oh, you have money, you can

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Speaker 3: spend it. They don't realize you know, you can spend,

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Speaker 3: you can save, you can gift, you can invest. There's

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Speaker 3: lots of different things that you can do with money,

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Speaker 3: and those lessons can be imparted on kids as young

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Speaker 3: as three, four or.

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Speaker 4: Five years old.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, And if you don't talk about it, you

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Speaker 2: carries that stigma with you into your own adulthood. But

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Speaker 2: aside from children, I mean, I think there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of folks out there and they are not talking about money.

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Speaker 2: How would you recommend for folks just to make this

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Speaker 2: a part of not only their life and something that

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Speaker 2: they're interested in, but to kind of get the ball

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Speaker 2: rolling and talking about it with her friends?

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Speaker 3: Yeah. I think with friends and family, depending on the

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Speaker 3: relationship that you have, the specific relationship that you have.

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Speaker 3: Every relationship is different, whether it's a friendship or you know,

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Speaker 3: a courtship of a romantic relationship or you know, mother

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Speaker 3: daughter relationship, every relationship is very is distinct an individuals.

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Speaker 3: So I would say, think about the relationship that you're

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Speaker 3: in involved in and kind of match that vibe in

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Speaker 3: that aura, because it's really weird if you have a

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Speaker 3: relationship that you know hasn't ever really trespassed those you know,

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Speaker 3: thresholds of talking about things that are a little personal

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Speaker 3: or considered to be a little taboo, then all of

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Speaker 3: a sudden, you just jump in one day at lunch like,

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Speaker 3: all right, so let's have about money. How much do

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Speaker 3: you have your four one K? What are your goals

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Speaker 3: for retirement? That it just seems so bizarre and out

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Speaker 3: of place. It's not going to be well received. So

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Speaker 3: I always tell people lead with a story and lead

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Speaker 3: from the heart. So a heartfelt story, I think is

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Speaker 3: the key to transitioning into any conversation point around money.

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Speaker 3: That again, regardless of the nature of your relationship, a

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Speaker 3: story can help with that. So in my case, talking

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Speaker 3: about my talking to my parents about retirement was tricky

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Speaker 3: because they both you know, were not prepared for retirement.

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Speaker 3: They still aren't even though they're in retirement and their children,

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Speaker 3: luckily they have nine children, so our big family has

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Speaker 3: been able to pull together money to help them out.

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Speaker 3: But having this conversation initially with them a few years

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Speaker 3: before my dad retired was really tough because they're going

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Speaker 3: to be defensive. They're going to feel hurt that we're

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Speaker 3: talking about something that they clearly are underprepared for. And

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Speaker 3: you know, we don't want them to feel like we're

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Speaker 3: blaming them, or we're judging them, or that you know,

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Speaker 3: this is their fault, or that we're ashamed or disappointed.

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Speaker 3: So what we did was, I personally just told my siblings,

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Speaker 3: let's just tell them a story about a friend who

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Speaker 3: has gone through a similar experience where their parents. And

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Speaker 3: fortunately for me, I had a friend who was literally

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Speaker 3: dealing with a sim situation with.

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Speaker 4: Make up a false story. But let me tell you,

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Speaker 4: it wasn't a folk that I promised. It was a

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Speaker 4: real friend.

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Speaker 3: And that's why listening to podcasts like this like this

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Speaker 3: is so helpful, because you're constantly listening to people's stories

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Speaker 3: and listening to experiences from people that they're sharing on

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Speaker 3: podcasts like this. So if feel free to use me,

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Speaker 3: but I tell people all the time, just say a story.

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Speaker 4: Listen.

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Speaker 3: I was listening to a podcast I heard this girl

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Speaker 3: and Alie. She was talking about her family and how

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Speaker 3: her parents were not prepared for retirement but they never

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Speaker 3: really talked about it, and so when it was time

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Speaker 3: for her parents to retire, the parents were assuming that

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Speaker 3: the children were going to be funding their retirement every

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Speaker 3: month and paying for everything, but the children didn't realize

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Speaker 3: that was the expectation, so they weren't prepared financially to

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Speaker 3: do that, and so there was this big clash and

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Speaker 3: people weren't really on the same page in their family,

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Speaker 3: and as you could imagine, that would lead to fighting,

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Speaker 3: and that could lead to a lot of you know,

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Speaker 3: miscommunication and all kinds of things. So instead, it would

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Speaker 3: have been smarter for them to talk about it way beforehand.

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Speaker 3: So I'm thinking about how that might apply to our relationship,

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Speaker 3: our family, our friendship, and how great it would be

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Speaker 3: for to start talking about these things now. Maybe look

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Speaker 3: up a couple of questions that we could start with,

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Speaker 3: and that way we prevent ourselves from repeating the types

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Speaker 3: of mistakes that you know, people like Nelly have made

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Speaker 3: because they just didn't talk about it before.

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Speaker 1: With enough time, that's so much less threatening, right, That's

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Speaker 1: such a great way to begin it, as opposed to like,

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Speaker 1: where are you at, like what's going on with your money?

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Speaker 1: And it really it really opens up I think the

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Speaker 1: so it gives somebody the ability of the room to

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Speaker 1: have a conversation as opposed to feeling like they have

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Speaker 1: to defend their position or give a full throated answer

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Speaker 1: to exactly where they stand with their personal finances.

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Speaker 2: Because their nine kids are staging in the intervention, right exactly.

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Speaker 4: We definitely didn't do that. We definitely didn't.

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Speaker 3: But the thing is too with that, like everybody's going

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Speaker 3: to agree, everyone's going to agree that yes, in that story,

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Speaker 3: I should have started sooner. The family should have talked

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Speaker 3: about this sooner, the expectations should have been made clear sooner.

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Speaker 3: So it's really difficult for somebody to hear that and

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Speaker 3: say no, no, no, I don't want to talk to

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Speaker 3: you about my money. Like it's very it's so visceral,

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Speaker 3: it's so real that it's true. Most people don't when

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Speaker 3: you come up with a story, when you start off

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Speaker 3: the bat with a story like that, you automatically all

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Speaker 3: start off on the same page of yeah, we definitely

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Speaker 3: want to prevent you know, we don't want to repeat that.

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Speaker 4: We don't want to do that. So let's be smarter.

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Speaker 3: Let's start talking more, you know, ahead of time, and

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Speaker 3: that's just an easy way to all get on the

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Speaker 3: same page.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So speaking of stories, let's go back to your

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Speaker 1: story a little bit. You are no dummy. You went

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Speaker 1: to again, one of the finest institutions in higher education.

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Speaker 1: You went to Brown University.

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Speaker 4: I did.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so you're smarty pants. And for folks out there

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Speaker 1: who might wonder how someone so smart could get into

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Speaker 1: financial trouble, tell us about that. There's a Sometimes people

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Speaker 1: think IQ he equals good money habits, but no, there's

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Speaker 1: a massive disconnect there, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, there definitely is a disconnect because I mean I

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Speaker 3: remember just really loving learning. I got so lucky in

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Speaker 3: elementary school and I had a gro group of teachers

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Speaker 3: who just made me love reading.

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Speaker 4: They made me love learning through reading.

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Speaker 3: And once I got past that point of, you know,

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Speaker 3: feeling like reading was a chore and not wanting to read,

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Speaker 3: like I couldn't stop, I would be hiding under the

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Speaker 3: covers with like reading my Little Babysitters Club books, and

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Speaker 3: my mom would catch me and be.

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Speaker 4: Like, you have to go to see give me the book. Like,

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Speaker 4: so for me, loving learning started really really early. But

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Speaker 4: one of the.

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Speaker 3: Things I noticed is that that was I was only

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Speaker 3: able to demonstrate that passion for learning in the academic

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Speaker 3: courses that I had, I mean going to school formerly.

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Speaker 3: You know, you have these specific classes on your roster

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Speaker 3: and your schedule every year, and that's.

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Speaker 4: You know, that was my time to shine.

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Speaker 3: That was my opportunity to you know, show my passion

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Speaker 3: for learning and to perform right and excel academically.

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Speaker 4: So because I took classes in you.

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Speaker 3: Know, science and social studies, English language ars, I took French,

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Speaker 3: I took Spanish at the guard History. It took so

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Speaker 3: many classes, but I never ever once got a class

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Speaker 3: about money management. I never once got a class about

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Speaker 3: personal finance. And so I felt when I got to college,

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Speaker 3: I felt this pressure to fit in with all of

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Speaker 3: these wealthier students that were around me that you know,

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Speaker 3: I really clearly was in a totally different lane from them.

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Speaker 3: You know, my parents did not have the money to

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Speaker 3: support me, to give me in a lot once every week,

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Speaker 3: or to you know, support me in any kind of

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Speaker 3: way financially. So I was working multiple jobs and you know,

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Speaker 3: to pay for my textbooks and my school supplies and

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Speaker 3: buy my own laptop, and I just couldn't come up

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Speaker 3: with the money quickly enough, no matter how many hours

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Speaker 3: I worked, like working a minimum wage job at a

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Speaker 3: pizza ria on campus. It wasn't you know, it was

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Speaker 3: impossible for me to come up with eighteen hundred dollars

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Speaker 3: within a week or two of the start of the semester.

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Speaker 3: So I just went down campus one day on my

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Speaker 3: way to work, and you know, saw somebody with a

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Speaker 3: clipboard offering me to you know, get a free T

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Speaker 3: shirt if I signed up for the credit card. And

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Speaker 3: of course it was a student credit card, so it

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Speaker 3: was specific for students to help you pay for your

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Speaker 3: textbooks and your laptop. And it was the perfect pitch

379
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Speaker 3: because I literally was going through trouble trying to figure

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Speaker 3: out how it's going to come up with money to.

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Speaker 4: Pay for all these things.

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Speaker 3: So to me, it just was like, oh, at the

383
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Speaker 3: clouds were partying and she was this woman with this clipboard.

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Speaker 3: It was a magical clipboard and all had to do

385
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Speaker 3: was fill out this papers and boom, I was going

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Speaker 3: to be able to solve my problems. And so I

387
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Speaker 3: filled out the application, I got my free T shirt.

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Speaker 3: I went on my way and two weeks later, I

389
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Speaker 3: had a shiny plastic credit card in my campus mail box.

390
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Speaker 4: With my name on it, and I immediately maxed it out.

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Speaker 3: I bought my laptop, I bought some textbooks, and I

392
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Speaker 3: felt so good, like I felt so proud of myself

393
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Speaker 3: doing that because I didn't have to bother anyone. I

394
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Speaker 3: didn't have to call my sisters and brothers and ask

395
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Speaker 3: them for money. I didn't have to bother mom and

396
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Speaker 3: dad knowing that they didn't have it and that I

397
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Speaker 3: was only going to be adding to their burden. Because

398
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Speaker 3: even if they said I don't have the money right now,

399
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Speaker 3: I knew that my dad wouldn't stop thinking about it,

400
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Speaker 3: and he'd probably have.

401
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Speaker 4: To work extra and work harder and try.

402
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Speaker 3: To come up with money to give me because he

403
00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:34,720
Speaker 3: wouldn't stop thinking about the fact that I needed money.

404
00:16:34,840 --> 00:16:37,240
Speaker 3: So I didn't want to add any stress to my

405
00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,120
Speaker 3: parents already existing burden. So you know, I got the

406
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Speaker 3: credit card. I started using it first for things that

407
00:16:43,240 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 3: I needed, and pretty quickly I realized just how easy

408
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Speaker 3: it is for you to swipe that credit card and

409
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Speaker 3: just buy whatever you want.

410
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Speaker 4: So that's I's started to do it.

411
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Speaker 3: I just went to the Mall and Providence Place, Mall

412
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,040
Speaker 3: got all my money forever twenty one h and m

413
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Speaker 3: you know, I would go and shop and buy clothes

414
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Speaker 3: and shoes. And also it's I would say, to the

415
00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:07,159
Speaker 3: impact of growing up in poverty, Like every time I

416
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Speaker 3: asked my mom for things or my dad for things,

417
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,760
Speaker 3: they would always tell me, no, no, ide nato. You know,

418
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Speaker 3: there's no money for that. We don't have the money

419
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Speaker 3: for you to get Jordan's. We don't have the money

420
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Speaker 3: for Nikes or for you know, name brand book bag

421
00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:20,240
Speaker 3: or name brand coat. So I was constantly being told no,

422
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Speaker 3: that I couldn't get these things. So in college, having

423
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:25,919
Speaker 3: a credit card and feeling more pressure than ever to

424
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:29,000
Speaker 3: look a certain way and you know, and wear certain brands,

425
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Speaker 3: there was nobody there to tell me no. So I

426
00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,800
Speaker 3: racked up twenty thousand dollars of credit card debt by

427
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Speaker 3: the time I graduated. About a year after my college

428
00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:40,320
Speaker 3: graduation is when I finally sat down and added up

429
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:42,399
Speaker 3: all of my credit card debt that I had and

430
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Speaker 3: one small student loan for a study of broad program,

431
00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:46,639
Speaker 3: and it was just under twenty one thousand dollars. And

432
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Speaker 3: that's when I kind of realized that I had gotten

433
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Speaker 3: out of control. I took it too far, and I

434
00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:53,720
Speaker 3: had a real problem that I needed to figure out

435
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:55,960
Speaker 3: some way, somehow to solve it.

436
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,480
Speaker 2: I've heard you speak about this before too, and just

437
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 2: how when you receive that credit card, it felt like

438
00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,720
Speaker 2: you were an official adult, right, And it's just interesting

439
00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:08,320
Speaker 2: to kind of contrast that to the lack of formality

440
00:18:08,320 --> 00:18:11,840
Speaker 2: that comes with actual financial education and so, and granted

441
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,320
Speaker 2: this is back before laws were changed in credit card

442
00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:17,600
Speaker 2: companies were actually allowed to be on campus, but it's

443
00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,159
Speaker 2: interesting how there truly is. And this is maybe an

444
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,879
Speaker 2: argument for some of this official sanctioned financial education that

445
00:18:23,880 --> 00:18:25,800
Speaker 2: you're pushing for in schools that we'll talk about a

446
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,280
Speaker 2: little bit later on. But it's interesting how on one

447
00:18:28,280 --> 00:18:32,960
Speaker 2: hand you had this this formality, this card sometimes and

448
00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:34,680
Speaker 2: make them out of metal now to make it feel

449
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,399
Speaker 2: like you're even more important, this passport into adulthood. Yeah,

450
00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:41,239
Speaker 2: in contrast to the fact that there was no there

451
00:18:41,320 --> 00:18:43,600
Speaker 2: is nothing on the syllabus, There is no sort of

452
00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,720
Speaker 2: class that was outline when you're just thrown to the

453
00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,439
Speaker 2: wolves to financial education. But so, yeah, so you had

454
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,160
Speaker 2: twenty thousand dollars a little over that actually, but what

455
00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:54,960
Speaker 2: was it? Because I think there's a lot of folks

456
00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,840
Speaker 2: out there who can continue down that path and they're

457
00:18:57,880 --> 00:19:02,199
Speaker 2: not going to really change their behavior until they somehow

458
00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,920
Speaker 2: see the light, until they are able to decide that

459
00:19:05,160 --> 00:19:08,600
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, like what am I doing with my life?

460
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,680
Speaker 2: What caused that change in your life?

461
00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:12,600
Speaker 1: Was the epiphany?

462
00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:12,800
Speaker 3: Yeah?

463
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:15,040
Speaker 2: What was that point in time that caused you to

464
00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:18,040
Speaker 2: want to completely up and how things were going? Yeah?

465
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,239
Speaker 3: So, I mean it was There was a book that

466
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 3: I read, which was Susie Orman's Women and Money. And

467
00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,760
Speaker 3: before reading that book, I was sitting at my desk

468
00:19:29,119 --> 00:19:31,520
Speaker 3: running up the numbers, like putting everything into a spreadsheet,

469
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,080
Speaker 3: adding everything up because I had gotten to the point

470
00:19:34,119 --> 00:19:36,520
Speaker 3: where I just I felt like an adult. I felt

471
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 3: like I was winning at this hashtag adulting thing.

472
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:38,760
Speaker 4: You know.

473
00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:40,919
Speaker 3: I was doing everything to help my parents. Every now

474
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:42,320
Speaker 3: and then I would send them money to help them

475
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,720
Speaker 3: pay a bill. You know, I had my own apartment,

476
00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:46,520
Speaker 3: or I lived with a roommate, so I shared an

477
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,880
Speaker 3: apartment with a roommate. I had my full time job

478
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 3: as a teacher, which my parents were so proud of

479
00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,639
Speaker 3: me for becoming a professional. In their minds, there was

480
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:57,280
Speaker 3: really no difference between a doctor, a lawyer, and a

481
00:19:57,320 --> 00:19:59,920
Speaker 3: teacher growing up in their country, in their native country,

482
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:03,560
Speaker 3: Dominican Republic, when a person becomes, specially a woman, becomes

483
00:20:03,560 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 3: a professional, working professional, that is the you know, utmost

484
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:10,720
Speaker 3: level of respect for you in terms of a career path,

485
00:20:10,880 --> 00:20:13,160
Speaker 3: just becoming a professional. And so growing up, I would

486
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,560
Speaker 3: always hear them say combierre te tem profession now, you know,

487
00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:18,960
Speaker 3: become a professional makers proud. So a teacher to them

488
00:20:19,080 --> 00:20:20,480
Speaker 3: was just as much as me saying I'm a doctor,

489
00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:23,119
Speaker 3: I'm a lawyer. Didn't make a difference. And I wish

490
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,960
Speaker 3: I had understood the difference between the salary of a

491
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,760
Speaker 3: teacher and a lawyer and a doctor, because I may have,

492
00:20:28,880 --> 00:20:31,000
Speaker 3: you know, thought a little bit more about what, you know,

493
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:33,560
Speaker 3: what my kind of career field was right after college.

494
00:20:33,680 --> 00:20:36,720
Speaker 3: But you know, the moment came to me looking at

495
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 3: my bills, and I just started crying because I was like, okay,

496
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:41,240
Speaker 3: after I give mommy some money that she told me

497
00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:43,960
Speaker 3: she needs. Plus, I paid my rent, I paid off

498
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 3: this minimums all my credit cards for this month. I

499
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:49,280
Speaker 3: paid my bills in my apartment. I bought a train pass,

500
00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:52,000
Speaker 3: I bought some groceries, I paid my cell phone bill,

501
00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,840
Speaker 3: like I literally have no money left, and it just

502
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:58,200
Speaker 3: doesn't make sense, right, like they say on TikTok the

503
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:02,000
Speaker 3: mathe math in and I got I got so frustrated

504
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 3: that I was like, how is it possible that I

505
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 3: went and got my my bachelor's degree, my master's degree,

506
00:21:06,119 --> 00:21:07,800
Speaker 3: MA went to one of the most prestigiou schools. I

507
00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:10,240
Speaker 3: got all the opportunities that my parents never got, and

508
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,639
Speaker 3: I'm still in this paycheck to paycheck cycle just like

509
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,120
Speaker 3: my parents. It like, it just didn't make sense. So

510
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 3: I was just crying, and so I started pulling up

511
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:20,560
Speaker 3: everything and just trying to do the basic math, like

512
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,640
Speaker 3: I'm running putting everything into a spreadsheet. Know how much

513
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,240
Speaker 3: do I actually do I owe? Why is it that

514
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:27,000
Speaker 3: I can't afford to pay for things? And that's when

515
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,520
Speaker 3: I saw my PDF credit card statement, which I had

516
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 3: been opening that PDF every month and literally never scrolling

517
00:21:33,960 --> 00:21:37,280
Speaker 3: past the first page. I would just look at the balance,

518
00:21:37,280 --> 00:21:39,639
Speaker 3: the minimum do and the do they That's it. I

519
00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:43,960
Speaker 3: didn't even look at anything past that. So I decided, okay,

520
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 3: let me scroll past the first page. And you know

521
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,480
Speaker 3: that was actually pretty enlightening. I saw a whole bunch

522
00:21:50,480 --> 00:21:51,240
Speaker 3: of interest fees.

523
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:53,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, what is this?

524
00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:57,199
Speaker 3: The total amount charged in interest for the year was

525
00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 3: in a little box all the way at the bottom

526
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 3: on the last page of my statement, and that was

527
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,679
Speaker 3: a shock to me. It was thousands of dollars. I

528
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,800
Speaker 3: was like, wait, what the heck is going on? How

529
00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:09,199
Speaker 3: is it possible that when I added up all the

530
00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 3: interest on my four different credit cards, it was thousands

531
00:22:11,359 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 3: of dollars that I had given. I'm thinking that could

532
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,280
Speaker 3: have been in my savings account. I could have been

533
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 3: giving that to Mommy and Bobby. I could have been

534
00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 3: using that to do all whole kinds of stuff. It

535
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:20,960
Speaker 3: could have been here in my bank account right now

536
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 3: to help me pay for stuff. So I just realized

537
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:26,480
Speaker 3: that interest fees were accruing very quickly, and I knew

538
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:31,200
Speaker 3: I didn't understand this thing called interest. So I actually,

539
00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,840
Speaker 3: in that moment can I'm not even gonna lie. I

540
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 3: didn't know what to do. I was just so overwhelmed

541
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,920
Speaker 3: and frustrated. So I went to bed, and like maybe

542
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,679
Speaker 3: a two days later after that experience, I was in

543
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:43,920
Speaker 3: a pharmacy. I was buying stuff at the Dwaine Read

544
00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:46,640
Speaker 3: and you know, stuff that I would always buy after work,

545
00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:49,640
Speaker 3: like wasting my money. I was buying candles and lotion trinkets,

546
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 3: whatever little stuff I would I would pick up on

547
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,040
Speaker 3: my way home from work. And on the magazine rack

548
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,240
Speaker 3: there was a book called Women and Money, and I

549
00:22:58,280 --> 00:22:59,920
Speaker 3: was like, you know, I'm a woman.

550
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:03,080
Speaker 4: I literally use yesteras yesterday just crying about money. Maybe

551
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:06,040
Speaker 4: this is one of those moments where the clouds of parties.

552
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 3: So I just picked up the book and I started

553
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,120
Speaker 3: reading the first few pages while I was in line,

554
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,080
Speaker 3: and by the time I got to the front to pay,

555
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 3: I just put the candles and lotions aside.

556
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:17,400
Speaker 4: I was like, I don't want that stuff. I want

557
00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:17,919
Speaker 4: this book.

558
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 3: And it was nine dollars and I tell people every

559
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 3: chance I get, I'm like, that was the best nine

560
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:25,359
Speaker 3: dollars that I ever spent, because that book opened my

561
00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:28,840
Speaker 3: eyes to basics around money and just to change your

562
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:30,920
Speaker 3: relationship with money and the way you think about money,

563
00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:33,959
Speaker 3: the way you treat money, physically lining up your bills

564
00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:36,320
Speaker 3: and straightening them out in your wallet, making you know,

565
00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 3: taking pride and the money that you've earned, things that

566
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:41,600
Speaker 3: I never got, you know, thought it was never exposed

567
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,919
Speaker 3: to and so I followed the debt repayment plan in

568
00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 3: that book and was able to pay off the debt

569
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:46,679
Speaker 3: in eighteen months.

570
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:47,960
Speaker 1: Oh man, I love it.

571
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 2: I love it. That's so cool.

572
00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 1: Okay, So, yeah, we talked a little bit about the math.

573
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,920
Speaker 1: We also there's there's more to just getting your money

574
00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:58,040
Speaker 1: right than just math though. There's a lot of like

575
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:00,720
Speaker 1: mindset work that needs to take place, and that doesn't

576
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:02,920
Speaker 1: necessarily take place over night. We have some questions about

577
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: that and more than we'll get to with you, Nelly

578
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 1: right after this.

579
00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:16,879
Speaker 2: All right, we hear back from the break talking with

580
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,439
Speaker 2: yan Nelly Espinal and you know, let's talk about swimming

581
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:23,320
Speaker 2: against the current. Because one line that stuck out to

582
00:24:23,359 --> 00:24:25,679
Speaker 2: me in your book was when you said that you

583
00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,840
Speaker 2: thought you wanted some Jordan's. You thought you wanted uggs

584
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:31,480
Speaker 2: so that people would think that you had money. You

585
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 2: wanted people to perceive you a certain way. This is

586
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 2: less about putting together a debt plan, right like, this

587
00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 2: is less about the math, and I would say this

588
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,879
Speaker 2: is tougher to change. Can you speak to that for

589
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 2: a second for sure?

590
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:44,199
Speaker 4: You know.

591
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 3: Actually, so the book came out at the end of

592
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,960
Speaker 3: May of twenty twenty three, and around that time, I

593
00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 3: was listening to a bunch of podcasts. I tuned into

594
00:24:49,880 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 3: your podcast that week actually, and the episode that you

595
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:53,199
Speaker 3: all dropped.

596
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 4: It was creepy to me.

597
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,399
Speaker 3: How similar that episode was to my second chapter of

598
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 3: my book where I talk about swimming.

599
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 4: It's the current. I mean, I think it was called

600
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 4: Overcoming your Idiot Brain. So what was listening.

601
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,359
Speaker 3: If you haven't listened to that episode, go back to

602
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,679
Speaker 3: Mayo twenty twenty three and pull that up, because it

603
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 3: was so great, like the examples, even the language that

604
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 3: you guys use was so similar, like fighting back, Like

605
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 3: I talk about that in my book. I talk about

606
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,199
Speaker 3: how every day you get up and you're like a

607
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:20,320
Speaker 3: soldier and you have to get ready for battle because

608
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:23,600
Speaker 3: at the moment you wake up and take your first breath,

609
00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:25,680
Speaker 3: like you're going to start to see ads on social

610
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:27,760
Speaker 3: ads on Spotify, you know, add on the bus.

611
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 4: When you walk out of your house, you turn on.

612
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,640
Speaker 3: The radio, another ad everybody wants your money, and it's

613
00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 3: like this constant game of whack a mole with a

614
00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:36,600
Speaker 3: bunch of money hungry moles.

615
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 4: And so I put that.

616
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:40,199
Speaker 3: In my book because I truly feel like that is

617
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 3: why your brain is your first priority when it comes

618
00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 3: to money, before saving and budgeting and understanding your income

619
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 3: and your cash flow, before any of that stuff, the

620
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 3: brain is number one. And so I talk about swimming

621
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,639
Speaker 3: against the current in the book because I feel like

622
00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 3: for a lot of people, once you learn the math stuff,

623
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,240
Speaker 3: the math is the easy part. Calculators online to to

624
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 3: automate that mass stuff for you. You don't have to

625
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: be able to understand the compounding formula. You just pull

626
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:07,240
Speaker 3: up a compound interest calculator and it does the math

627
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 3: for you. So the math is really easy proper. The

628
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:11,960
Speaker 3: hard part is the social stuff, feeling like you're not

629
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 3: cool enough if you don't have, you know, the latest gadgets,

630
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:16,959
Speaker 3: if you don't have you know, the nicest apartment, if

631
00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:19,560
Speaker 3: you don't have the latest sneakers or the latest perse

632
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,760
Speaker 3: so whatever it is that everybody around you is posting

633
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 3: and talking about. If you don't have it, you fall

634
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 3: prey to this invisible force around you that's making you

635
00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,639
Speaker 3: feel like you're never cool enough, you're not ever going

636
00:26:30,720 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 3: to be good enough. And in order for you to

637
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 3: succeed financially and kind of fight back against a lot

638
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 3: of that stuff.

639
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 4: You really have to, you know, do your own thing.

640
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,959
Speaker 3: You have to swim against the current, and you have

641
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 3: to kind of decide that it's even though it feels

642
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:47,679
Speaker 3: unnatural for so many of us to try to go

643
00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 3: against a lot of that, you know, whatever's common and popular.

644
00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 3: That's the only way that you're actually gonna be able

645
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,000
Speaker 3: to make decisions about what you really want your money

646
00:26:56,040 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 3: to do for you and not what you've been brainwashed

647
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,639
Speaker 3: to think that you should do with your money. So,

648
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:04,440
Speaker 3: you know, for me, I think that's a huge part.

649
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,520
Speaker 3: And you know, for me, that's why I dedicated the

650
00:27:06,560 --> 00:27:08,280
Speaker 3: whole second chapter of the book it's called get your

651
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 3: Mind Right, because I really think before you even get

652
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,000
Speaker 3: into the money stuff, you really got to start understanding

653
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,000
Speaker 3: these biases that you fall prey to when you're making

654
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:16,919
Speaker 3: choices with your money, and what you can do to

655
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: fight back against those biases.

656
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:20,159
Speaker 1: And you say that community is a big part of

657
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 1: that too, right, So, like who you surround yourself with,

658
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 1: because it feels like they're these like flaming eras aimed

659
00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: at us all the time, trying to get us up

660
00:27:28,359 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: to part from our money. And if we don't put

661
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 1: on that kind of armor to protect ourselves. We're going

662
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:35,320
Speaker 1: to fork it over. So how does community and who

663
00:27:35,359 --> 00:27:37,919
Speaker 1: you like, your friends, your family, who you hang out with,

664
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:40,600
Speaker 1: how does that impact your ability to be kind of

665
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 1: resilient to those to those calls, to those advertisers who

666
00:27:43,560 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: are trying to part you from that yeah, earn money.

667
00:27:46,119 --> 00:27:47,960
Speaker 3: No, I love this question because for me, I'm going

668
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:49,840
Speaker 3: to tell you the truth. My family was not really

669
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,399
Speaker 3: on board with you know, they saw what I was

670
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 3: doing and they said it was a little too drastic,

671
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:55,919
Speaker 3: because it's true. I was.

672
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,360
Speaker 4: I was. I was super frugal.

673
00:27:57,440 --> 00:27:59,960
Speaker 3: Like, once I realized what was happening with my money,

674
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 3: I was not playing games. I was like, I'm so serious.

675
00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,199
Speaker 3: It's just like committing to getting an A plus in

676
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 3: my physics class.

677
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,879
Speaker 4: Like I was like, I'm not. Yeah, I was on

678
00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 4: a mission exactly.

679
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 3: So you know, if we would go out, I would

680
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,000
Speaker 3: only order something like a very small thing in my budget,

681
00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 3: and everybody would be trying to split the bill and

682
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:15,880
Speaker 3: I'd be.

683
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:17,720
Speaker 4: Like, no, no splitting bills over here. I'm getting my

684
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:19,080
Speaker 4: own separate check. I only spent.

685
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 3: Right, I'm like, if I'm unless I'm mistaken, this water

686
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,239
Speaker 3: with the lemon slice was free, so I just was very,

687
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:29,520
Speaker 3: very frugal, and I think they started to see that

688
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,040
Speaker 3: and they were maybe like a little judgmental at first.

689
00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 3: But I knew right away that my family because after

690
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 3: I told them about like the books that I had

691
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 3: been reading and the blogs that I was reading, and

692
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,360
Speaker 3: the podcast I was listening to, and these ideas that

693
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:43,400
Speaker 3: I had been exposed to, they all just thought like,

694
00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 3: it's a little too drastic and it's a bit too much.

695
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:47,240
Speaker 3: And it got to the point where honestly, some of

696
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 3: my siblings were just telling me to shut up. They

697
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:52,320
Speaker 3: were like, we don't care about the new maximum on

698
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 3: your roth that ray increasing by five hundred dollars this year.

699
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 3: We don't care about that stuff.

700
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:57,840
Speaker 4: That's your thing.

701
00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 3: And so then I was like, okay, fine, So I

702
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 3: decided I'm going to go online because obviously I'm not

703
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:05,280
Speaker 3: going to change my family I'm not going to cancel

704
00:29:05,360 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 3: my family.

705
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,560
Speaker 4: Like, I love these people, I just have to accept

706
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:12,760
Speaker 4: that they I would not. I was like, come on,

707
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 4: I love these people.

708
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 3: But if I can't convince them that this is the

709
00:29:16,120 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 3: most important thing for us, then I'm just going to

710
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,800
Speaker 3: have to show them and not tell them. So what

711
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:22,760
Speaker 3: I did was I kind of just did my own thing.

712
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 3: Instead of subtracting people out of my life, I didn't

713
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:27,480
Speaker 3: do that. I just added added a bunch of people

714
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 3: into my mindset, to my life, to my news feed

715
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 3: on social media. I started following a bunch of people

716
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,240
Speaker 3: and starting to follow hashtags and just start to look

717
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 3: at all the content and listen to more podcasts and

718
00:29:37,320 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 3: just really immerse myself into the space of personal finance,

719
00:29:40,480 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 3: financial independence and deb repayment and you know, all these

720
00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 3: deaf free community, all this all this stuff online, which

721
00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:48,520
Speaker 3: you know, for me, helped me to feel like I

722
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,760
Speaker 3: had another family. I had this other community outside of

723
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 3: like the people that I see every day and hugging

724
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 3: kiss when i'm you know, together with them. It doesn't

725
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 3: have to be the physical.

726
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 4: People in your life. It might not, and that's okay.

727
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,960
Speaker 3: For me, it wasn't, but I still was able to

728
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 3: go online and feel like I knew these people that

729
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:09,240
Speaker 3: you know, were kind of like, you know, influences on

730
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,959
Speaker 3: me in terms of my mindset and helping me with

731
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 3: resources and things. But I never met really any of

732
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 3: them until honestly recently, which is wild for me to

733
00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 3: say that I've now worked with so many of those

734
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 3: creators who were early influences on me. You know, I

735
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:25,960
Speaker 3: met mister Monny Mustache. I met Peter at fin Con.

736
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,600
Speaker 3: You know, I've met so many incredible speakers. I met

737
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:32,080
Speaker 3: Tiffany the Budget Neista at a conference for women, and

738
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,000
Speaker 3: I'm just so many of these amazing early influences in

739
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,160
Speaker 3: my life I've been able to meet and tell them

740
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 3: thank you so much, Like you are the reason why

741
00:30:40,440 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 3: I completely changed the trajectory of my life and my

742
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:46,840
Speaker 3: future generations lives because I started to, you know, get

743
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 3: serious about my money. So you know, just really quickly,

744
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,280
Speaker 3: if if that's not people that you love right now,

745
00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 3: that you see every day that you hang out with

746
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 3: your friends, your family, your spouse, your partner.

747
00:30:55,640 --> 00:30:57,600
Speaker 4: That is okay, show them.

748
00:30:58,000 --> 00:30:59,959
Speaker 3: Don't feel like you have to tell them because they

749
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: might not be ready to hear it, but when they

750
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 3: see it, they can't deny it.

751
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: That's that's some.

752
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:06,360
Speaker 1: Good advice, right quick plug for the Hona Money Facebook group,

753
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 1: because that's surely ten thousand plus people who are helping

754
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 1: each other out and really want to get better with

755
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: their money. And it's this hive mind. But it's also

756
00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:15,840
Speaker 1: this group where there's so much support that.

757
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,440
Speaker 2: Goes alongside of it, and I got a joint.

758
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:18,000
Speaker 4: I love that.

759
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean that's what we need, right, We need

760
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 1: the information combined with the the adda boys out of

761
00:31:22,120 --> 00:31:24,160
Speaker 1: girls like you can do it, you got this, And

762
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,440
Speaker 1: I think that that too pronged approach is just it's

763
00:31:27,480 --> 00:31:29,520
Speaker 1: crucial and it really helps a lot of people succeed.

764
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,160
Speaker 1: You need that motivation. If there's nobody physically in your life,

765
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:32,960
Speaker 1: you need that.

766
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,160
Speaker 2: That's the beauty of an online community. This is one

767
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:42,040
Speaker 2: of the few upsides to ASIE. Yeah, you kind of

768
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 2: were talking about how you're you went pretty hard in

769
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 2: the frugal direction, Like what are some of the more

770
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: extreme things that you may have done to save money

771
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 2: to get ahead, because I think at some point in

772
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 2: the book you mentioned something about eyebrow threading.

773
00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 4: I was just thinking about that.

774
00:31:56,920 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, talk to something about that or tell me what

775
00:31:59,120 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: that is somebody.

776
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 3: Two things that I did that were extreme. First was

777
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 3: like beauty maintenance routine and stuff with like, you know,

778
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:07,760
Speaker 3: being a girl, there's a lot of stuff and I

779
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 3: know that there are guys out there who also put

780
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:11,240
Speaker 3: a lot of time and effort and money into grooming.

781
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 4: But it's just different with girls.

782
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,720
Speaker 3: Because of the pink tax, we are targeted products and

783
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 3: things that are so much more expensive.

784
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 4: To stay beautiful and to look you know whatever.

785
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:22,120
Speaker 3: And for me, a lot of that was, you know,

786
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 3: maintaining my parents, so getting haircuts, getting my nails done,

787
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 3: and doing my eyebrows, which for many years I was

788
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,320
Speaker 3: I would go like every two weeks and spend eight

789
00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:33,000
Speaker 3: to twelve dollars to get my eyebrows waxed, you know,

790
00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:34,360
Speaker 3: and it hurts.

791
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:34,920
Speaker 4: I'm gonna live.

792
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 3: You get used to it after a while, but it's

793
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,040
Speaker 3: just part of the name of the game. You want

794
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 3: to be pretty on your first date, you want to

795
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 3: look nice, you got you gotta put the money down

796
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 3: to you know.

797
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 4: Keep up with your beauty routine.

798
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 3: And so when I got really serious about my budget,

799
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 3: I was like, Okay, this is what I have, This

800
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:50,280
Speaker 3: is what I'm going to spend money on. This is

801
00:32:50,320 --> 00:32:52,320
Speaker 3: what I don't have, This what I can't put money towards.

802
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:54,000
Speaker 3: And so I remember one time I was with my

803
00:32:54,080 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 3: family and my sisters, because I'm one of five sisters.

804
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 3: There's nine of us total, but four our brothers and

805
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 3: the other four sisters. So one of five sisters, and

806
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 3: my sisters were they were just dogging me, like making

807
00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,680
Speaker 3: fun of me, you know, roasting me, which is their

808
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 3: way of showing tough love.

809
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 4: I say that, but still it's still hurts. Sometimes.

810
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,480
Speaker 3: They were just like dogging me, like, oh, you look

811
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:15,720
Speaker 3: like free to CALLO because I got my eyebrows.

812
00:33:16,360 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 4: My eyebrows were.

813
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:20,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, come on, come on.

814
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:23,760
Speaker 4: They had not been done for a couple of months.

815
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 2: I'm not gonna lie.

816
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 3: So I was like, well, you know, I was trying

817
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,560
Speaker 3: to tweet them on my own, but I don't really

818
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:29,720
Speaker 3: know how to do it, and I want to mess

819
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 3: them up and whatever.

820
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 4: They're like, just go spend the money, and I'm like.

821
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,520
Speaker 3: Well, I can't because I promised myself I was not

822
00:33:34,560 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 3: going to use my credit cards again until I paid

823
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:38,800
Speaker 3: them off. And I don't have the twelve dollars in

824
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 3: my budget because every dollar had a job and it

825
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 3: was not my eyebrows this month. So you know, I

826
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 3: just kind of went home that night and I'm thinking

827
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 3: about them making fun of me, and I'm like, all right,

828
00:33:47,120 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 3: let me let me see if I can just figure

829
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 3: out a way to do my own eyebrows.

830
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:50,560
Speaker 4: It can't be that hard.

831
00:33:51,040 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 3: So I went on YouTube and I started looking up

832
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 3: how to do your own eyebrows, and a video came

833
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:58,760
Speaker 3: up about threading your eyebrows, which I had done one time,

834
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 3: or I had had it done one time for my

835
00:34:01,520 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 3: sweet sixteen party. My sister took me to a place

836
00:34:04,120 --> 00:34:06,120
Speaker 3: in Manhattan where they thread in my eyebrows. It was

837
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:08,920
Speaker 3: like a very traditional Indian eyebrow threading place. So I

838
00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,319
Speaker 3: always thought, like, that's something that if you don't, if

839
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 3: that's not in your culture, you don't know how to

840
00:34:12,719 --> 00:34:15,120
Speaker 3: do it, you're gonna like rip your eyebrows off your face.

841
00:34:15,160 --> 00:34:16,480
Speaker 4: So don't even try to do that, you know.

842
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,200
Speaker 3: But there was this tutorial on YouTube, and it was

843
00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,799
Speaker 3: it made it seem pretty simple. You didn't have to

844
00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:24,719
Speaker 3: like use your mouth with a thread, which is what

845
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 3: in the traditional way to do it looks like. So

846
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,840
Speaker 3: you could just like make one thread loop and cross

847
00:34:30,880 --> 00:34:32,520
Speaker 3: it over like in the form of an X. And

848
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 3: so I started practicing it, and so I was like, Okay,

849
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 3: I think I could. I think I learned how to

850
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,040
Speaker 3: like control which hair's eye will plug with the thread,

851
00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:43,759
Speaker 3: and so then I did my own eyebrows, and funnily enough,

852
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 3: now I do my sister's eyebrows, even though they were

853
00:34:46,120 --> 00:34:48,840
Speaker 3: making fun of me. I do my mom's eyebrows, I

854
00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,040
Speaker 3: do my sister in law. A lot of my girlfriends

855
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:52,920
Speaker 3: be like, can you do my eyebrows between visits, Like

856
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:54,839
Speaker 3: I just need to touch up, and my nieces will

857
00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:55,960
Speaker 3: have me do their eyebrows.

858
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 4: So it's funny.

859
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,200
Speaker 3: Because I was just I was really committed to my

860
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:01,560
Speaker 3: fruit with my my budget, so much so that I

861
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,759
Speaker 3: wasn't willing to put a twelve dollars eye brought charge

862
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 3: on my credit card because I promised myself I wasn't

863
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:07,040
Speaker 3: going to use it.

864
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,680
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I love that that's you mentioned, like that's

865
00:35:09,680 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 1: a resolve right to say no, to say no to things,

866
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:15,759
Speaker 1: and to find a solution outside of it, to get

867
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:17,759
Speaker 1: a little creative. I think, Matt, that reminds me of

868
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,879
Speaker 1: when you did your wife's hair at some point.

869
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 2: What was it called the uh oh b the layering.

870
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 2: Matt trained himself.

871
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,479
Speaker 1: He learned he watched a bunch of YouTube videos, like Nelly,

872
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,440
Speaker 1: I watched a few YouTube videos because it's like a

873
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: really expensive way to get your hair.

874
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 2: One hundreds of dollars. Well, speaking of, maybe I should

875
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: start my own salon because I've cut your you know, I.

876
00:35:36,040 --> 00:35:38,239
Speaker 1: Should partner together start your own thing. Right this is

877
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:42,640
Speaker 1: a business plan in the making right here exactly. I'll

878
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: just come in and get the work done, but I

879
00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 1: won't be.

880
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,279
Speaker 2: A part of it, but hang out. Yeah. No, But

881
00:35:47,320 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 2: I love that.

882
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:50,560
Speaker 1: I think that that that says so much, and it's

883
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,200
Speaker 1: it's so important to be willing to say no to things,

884
00:35:54,239 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: even if it's in an ideal world. Hey, at some

885
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:59,000
Speaker 1: point I'll get I'll get there and I'll be able

886
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,560
Speaker 1: to go splurge on that, but not until I've actually

887
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: got the cash in hand to be able to do it.

888
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:04,200
Speaker 4: That's right.

889
00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,960
Speaker 1: I've got another question for you, Nell. We've Matt and

890
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: I we've talked on the show before. There's a lot

891
00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: of actually data about how second generation immigrants tend to

892
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: succeed more than first generation immigrants and more than people,

893
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 1: more than Americans who are fourth fifth generation. They tend

894
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,760
Speaker 1: to realize the American dream more than any other cohort.

895
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:26,360
Speaker 1: Do you have any insight as a second generation immigrant

896
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: as to what the secret sauce is there, Like, what

897
00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,440
Speaker 1: is the yeah, what's involved? And why is it that

898
00:36:32,480 --> 00:36:35,839
Speaker 1: second generation immigrants really live the American dream more than the.

899
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:36,239
Speaker 2: Rest of us.

900
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I would say this. I would say

901
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 3: that this is anecdotal obviously, because I don't have any

902
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 3: studies to source, but I will say there is this

903
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:52,240
Speaker 3: emotional connection, this psychological, deeply seated mentality of a combination

904
00:36:52,320 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 3: of the gratitude that you have for the efforts that

905
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 3: your parents have put into immigrate to a whole new country.

906
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 3: They left their entire life behind, everyone they knew and loved,

907
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:03,479
Speaker 3: They left it in their native country to come here

908
00:37:04,239 --> 00:37:08,000
Speaker 3: with the sole purpose of giving you their child a

909
00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 3: better opportunity than the one that they had. And they

910
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:15,279
Speaker 3: worked unforgiving immigrant jobs and worked unforgiving hours. And when

911
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,800
Speaker 3: I say the word sacrifice is so underrated in immigrant community,

912
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,600
Speaker 3: I mean truly, it is the ultimate sacrifice to leave

913
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:25,279
Speaker 3: your comfort, your loved ones, everything you know, your way

914
00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 3: of life for your children to have better opportunities. It

915
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:29,799
Speaker 3: makes me want to cry right now as I talk

916
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:32,200
Speaker 3: about it, because I know that my mom and dad

917
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 3: made that ultimate sacrifice for me, for me and my siblings.

918
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 3: And so when I think about that, there's something psychological

919
00:37:39,280 --> 00:37:43,560
Speaker 3: happening there that is it's so powerful that you feel

920
00:37:43,719 --> 00:37:46,920
Speaker 3: you have to you do not have a choice but

921
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:51,319
Speaker 3: to make their sacrifice worthwhile, and that means that you

922
00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,080
Speaker 3: have to succeed. You have to find a way to succeed,

923
00:37:54,239 --> 00:37:56,840
Speaker 3: whether it's through the very traditional pathway of going to

924
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,040
Speaker 3: college and getting you know, your job and having a

925
00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 3: successful career path the more traditional way, whether it's an

926
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 3: alternative to the for your college pathway and you know,

927
00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,080
Speaker 3: join the military or becoming an entrepreneur or you know,

928
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 3: whatever that pathway looks like. It doesn't have to be

929
00:38:10,760 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 3: that cookie cutter, perfect for your college degree type of pathway.

930
00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:14,560
Speaker 4: But whatever it is.

931
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,120
Speaker 3: That you do, you're doing it with a certain level

932
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 3: of grit and resilience that is near too impossible to

933
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:24,839
Speaker 3: plant into someone if they don't naturally have it. And

934
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,840
Speaker 3: I think a lot of children of immigrants naturally have

935
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 3: it because they've witnessed that ultimate sacrifice that their parents

936
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:34,000
Speaker 3: have made and they're just trying their hardest to you know,

937
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 3: give their parents that ability to say, to feel that

938
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,800
Speaker 3: sense of gratitude and pride for their children.

939
00:38:41,520 --> 00:38:44,120
Speaker 2: That's so true, that makes sense. So you are a

940
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 2: second gen immigrant and you have that resolve a lot

941
00:38:47,239 --> 00:38:51,239
Speaker 2: of folks they don't have that either. Dumption or that

942
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,439
Speaker 2: grit to figure things out on their own.

943
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:55,479
Speaker 1: We did a whole episode about grit, by the way,

944
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: how that was like the number one ingredient in getting

945
00:38:57,480 --> 00:38:58,880
Speaker 1: better with money and how you kind of have to

946
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 1: like figure out how to get it.

947
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 2: Really could have like co hosted that episode, I'm sure,

948
00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 2: But a big part of getting ahead with your finances

949
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,719
Speaker 2: is knowing the right stuff. And fact is, there are

950
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 2: a lot of folks who don't have that drive to

951
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 2: figure it out, and sometimes it does need to be

952
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,879
Speaker 2: presented in a more formal manner. And we're actually gonna

953
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:19,839
Speaker 2: talk more about financial literacy and some of the things

954
00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: that you know, you Nelly is doing to make this

955
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,799
Speaker 2: more accessible across our country. We'll get to that right

956
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: after this.

957
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 1: All right, we're back. We're still talking how to get

958
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:40,759
Speaker 1: to financial freedom with you Nelli Espanal. Her story just

959
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: incredible and so we're so glad to have her here

960
00:39:43,600 --> 00:39:46,759
Speaker 1: and you, Nelly, it's it's not just about like how

961
00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:48,719
Speaker 1: far she's come, it's about what she's doing to help

962
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 1: others succeed as well. And you, Neale I love your mission.

963
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,840
Speaker 1: I love what you do, what you're doing with so

964
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,840
Speaker 1: many hours of your work weeks to make sure that

965
00:39:58,920 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: other kids, Like we're talking hundreds of thousands, if not millions,

966
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,160
Speaker 1: of kids around the country to succeed in the future,

967
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:08,320
Speaker 1: not just not just your ten you know, nieces and nephews.

968
00:40:08,320 --> 00:40:11,759
Speaker 1: Like we're talking your impact is being heard around around

969
00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:13,840
Speaker 1: the nation. And so let's talk about your work with

970
00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,760
Speaker 1: next gen personal finance and trying to bring financial literacy

971
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 1: to the masses, mainly mainly high schoolers. Like why is

972
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:21,200
Speaker 1: that such a passion of yours?

973
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:23,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean it's such a passion of mine because,

974
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,000
Speaker 3: as I mentioned a little earlier, I know that if

975
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 3: I had had a formal academic course on money management,

976
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 3: I would have, you know, I would have had a

977
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 3: completely different mindset, and I think it would have really

978
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,240
Speaker 3: prevented me from making so many of the mindless, reckless

979
00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 3: mistakes that I made with money in college. And I

980
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,400
Speaker 3: feel like everyone deserves a fair shot in order to,

981
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 3: you know, really be able to thrive financially, or even

982
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,520
Speaker 3: to just get the basics right. When I was in

983
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:53,080
Speaker 3: my master's program for education, I remember learning about the

984
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:56,160
Speaker 3: original intent behind creating a public school system in America,

985
00:40:56,440 --> 00:40:59,680
Speaker 3: and it was called the Great Equalizer. It was to

986
00:40:59,760 --> 00:41:03,320
Speaker 3: give everyone, no matter what your zip code, your family background,

987
00:41:03,320 --> 00:41:06,279
Speaker 3: your ethnic origin, no matter where you come from, that

988
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:09,319
Speaker 3: when you step into this public school building, you all

989
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 3: have an equal opportunity for success. You get an equal education,

990
00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,520
Speaker 3: you understand everything equally, so that when you exit you

991
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:19,160
Speaker 3: know everyone that kind of you're on equal footing right

992
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:22,319
Speaker 3: to then move forward. Now, obviously that's like this idealistic

993
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 3: utopia world where yes, we're all equal when we have school.

994
00:41:25,960 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 3: What happens at home is a greater impact on your

995
00:41:29,120 --> 00:41:30,400
Speaker 3: life than what's happening at school.

996
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:33,320
Speaker 4: But at the very least, if you're.

997
00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:35,719
Speaker 3: Intending to prepare students so that they can get a

998
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,080
Speaker 3: job one day and have some type of income so

999
00:41:38,080 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 3: they can have security for their family, then there should

1000
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 3: be a class teaching you what the best practices are

1001
00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:46,759
Speaker 3: around what to do when that money comes, when that

1002
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 3: first pay check hits. So it's so odd to me

1003
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 3: after being a student for decades in our public school system,

1004
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 3: going off to a very prestigious college, getting a master's degree,

1005
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:57,920
Speaker 3: coming back to New York City, becoming a teacher in

1006
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:00,440
Speaker 3: that very public school system that I attended as child

1007
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 3: as a student, now being on the other side in

1008
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,720
Speaker 3: front of the classroom. Seeing that the curriculum still didn't

1009
00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,839
Speaker 3: include any financial literacy, it just felt like, Okay, I

1010
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 3: could continue to impact my thirty to forty kids every year.

1011
00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:14,719
Speaker 3: I could even create content on YouTube and affect you know,

1012
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,880
Speaker 3: a couple million people who subscribe to my channel if

1013
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:20,239
Speaker 3: I grow really big, but my impact will still be

1014
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:24,600
Speaker 3: limited Versus if I am able to change the laws

1015
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:27,960
Speaker 3: and make sure that every single teenager before they turn

1016
00:42:28,040 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 3: eighteen and graduate high school is required to take a

1017
00:42:30,760 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 3: full semester, eighteen week course diving into money management and

1018
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 3: personal finance, then no matter what future generation.

1019
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 4: Your children, your children's children, children's children's.

1020
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 3: Children are going to be able to get this because

1021
00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:42,759
Speaker 3: of my efforts. And that's the kind of impact I

1022
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:44,840
Speaker 3: was looking to get done in my work, not just

1023
00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:48,360
Speaker 3: this surface level impact through being a social media creator

1024
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 3: or being a teacher. Like I'm a wife who have

1025
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,040
Speaker 3: always been the type of person who prioritizes being of

1026
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 3: service to others, and I.

1027
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:54,040
Speaker 4: Get that from my mom.

1028
00:42:54,120 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 3: She's so giving and always trying to be of service.

1029
00:42:56,760 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 3: But I wanted the service to really be the highest

1030
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:01,280
Speaker 3: impact type of service possible.

1031
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 2: So what's interesting is like there are even some like

1032
00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:06,360
Speaker 2: pretty great folks in the personal finance space who actually

1033
00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 2: question the necessity of some of these different classes. And

1034
00:43:09,719 --> 00:43:12,360
Speaker 2: so I kind of get it because you even just

1035
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,759
Speaker 2: said yourself, what happens at home, it is even more

1036
00:43:15,840 --> 00:43:19,440
Speaker 2: formational in the minds and in the lives of children.

1037
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:20,960
Speaker 2: But like, what would you say to someone out there

1038
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:24,880
Speaker 2: who is questioning the effectiveness of a single personal finance

1039
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 2: class in high school?

1040
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,120
Speaker 1: We've seen more and more of it, and it's really

1041
00:43:27,160 --> 00:43:29,239
Speaker 1: disappointing to see people in the personal finance space who

1042
00:43:29,239 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 1: know the value of the education say, oh, well, we

1043
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 1: don't need it in high school. We don't when it's

1044
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: a subject that touches every single one of our lives,

1045
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,759
Speaker 1: every day of our lives in perpetuity.

1046
00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:41,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, essentially, I guess when I'm asking, what's your argument against, Well,

1047
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:43,719
Speaker 2: they should just learn it on their own, whether it's

1048
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:46,480
Speaker 2: by it from their parents, or maybe they should just

1049
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:48,000
Speaker 2: learn it from a book or from a podcast.

1050
00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:52,000
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, Well, actually recently I was on TikTok and

1051
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:52,919
Speaker 3: I saw.

1052
00:43:52,560 --> 00:43:55,439
Speaker 4: A roomats at the video at the If you don't

1053
00:43:55,440 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 4: already know them, I'm sure you know him.

1054
00:43:56,600 --> 00:43:58,239
Speaker 3: His book's awesome. I would teach You to Be Rich

1055
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 3: is show on netflixes How to Get Rich Amazing. Now

1056
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,359
Speaker 3: I've reached out to him and I said, hey, I

1057
00:44:03,400 --> 00:44:05,359
Speaker 3: and this is like an Instagram DM. I said, hey,

1058
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 3: I've committed to changing your mind about financial education and

1059
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 3: I'm so serious. I am going to show you the

1060
00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:13,360
Speaker 3: latest research and the movement for twenty first century relevant

1061
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 3: financial education. I love your work and I've always plugged you.

1062
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:18,359
Speaker 3: You can see that from how many times I've tagged you.

1063
00:44:18,719 --> 00:44:21,040
Speaker 3: But man, this is the number one hot take where

1064
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:22,839
Speaker 3: you are wrong and I want to help you get

1065
00:44:22,840 --> 00:44:25,160
Speaker 3: on the right side of the fight. He responded to

1066
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 3: me and said, I'm open to reading the research, and

1067
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,120
Speaker 3: so I sent him the research. He said, thank you

1068
00:44:30,160 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 3: reading these. So he you know, it's funny because for

1069
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:34,520
Speaker 3: me posted this video where he talked about, you know

1070
00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,840
Speaker 3: why he doesn't support financial education, and it kind of

1071
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,480
Speaker 3: went viral very quickly, obviously because he's so well known.

1072
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,320
Speaker 3: But he said, you know who's going to teach it?

1073
00:44:42,480 --> 00:44:44,520
Speaker 3: If the banks are going to create the curriculum and

1074
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 3: we can't even agree on basic fundamental truths in this country,

1075
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,040
Speaker 3: how are we going to agree on personal finance? And

1076
00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 3: then he said, kids don't care about learning about money,

1077
00:44:51,239 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 3: So I want to address those points first time.

1078
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 1: I think he was wrong on all accounts.

1079
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 4: I told him, I said, you're wrong. I'm gonna get

1080
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:57,200
Speaker 4: you on the wrong.

1081
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 1: Single reason that he gave I was like, dude, you're wrong.

1082
00:45:00,560 --> 00:45:02,640
Speaker 3: Dude right and love for meet. But I told them,

1083
00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 3: I was like, I got to bring you over to

1084
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 3: our side. You got to be on the right side

1085
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 3: of the fight. So all right, let's address them each

1086
00:45:07,040 --> 00:45:09,160
Speaker 3: one who's going to teach it? First of all, he said,

1087
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 3: overburdened high school teacher are going to teach it. I

1088
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:13,040
Speaker 3: can tell you right now through my work at NGPF.

1089
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 3: It is a free, nonprofit organization, so free curriculum, free

1090
00:45:16,040 --> 00:45:19,040
Speaker 3: teacher training. There's over seventy thousand, close to eighty thousand

1091
00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 3: teachers across the country who are accessing the free materials.

1092
00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:24,759
Speaker 3: So this is not curriculum that's created by a bank

1093
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,319
Speaker 3: the way he mentions where it's like pushing the bank

1094
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,440
Speaker 3: branding on a logo on materials.

1095
00:45:29,560 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 4: This is all free, not for profit.

1096
00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:34,880
Speaker 3: It is all literally like twenty first century up to

1097
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 3: date online materials. And we have over eighty thousand teachers,

1098
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 3: close to eighty thousand teachers who've created an account so

1099
00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 3: that they can access the materials for free. What will

1100
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,040
Speaker 3: they take away? What will students take away? There are

1101
00:45:45,160 --> 00:45:48,440
Speaker 3: national personal finance standards for financial literacy education created by

1102
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 3: Jumpstart as well as the Council for Economic Education. States

1103
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 3: can either choose to adopt those standards and teach those topics,

1104
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,799
Speaker 3: or they could create their own state specific standards for

1105
00:45:56,880 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 3: financial literacy education and use their own state specific standard.

1106
00:46:00,320 --> 00:46:02,759
Speaker 3: That's up to the state because in education it's very

1107
00:46:02,840 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 3: much local control. In our country. This is not a

1108
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,680
Speaker 3: federal issue that the President can just wave a magic

1109
00:46:07,719 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 3: want and say everyone is required to now learn personal

1110
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:12,760
Speaker 3: finance in high school. It's a state by state, local issue,

1111
00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:15,040
Speaker 3: so every state has to dictate what it looks like

1112
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,000
Speaker 3: and how that happens. How are they going to get trained.

1113
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,320
Speaker 3: We offer free teacher training at NGPF. Again not for profits,

1114
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,240
Speaker 3: so it's not we're not pushing anything. There's absolutely no agenda.

1115
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 3: The co founders created an endowment fund. One of our

1116
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,479
Speaker 3: co founders, Tymerans that Are, created an endowment fund. After

1117
00:46:29,520 --> 00:46:31,960
Speaker 3: having a lot of success as an entrepreneur. He decided

1118
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:33,600
Speaker 3: this is going to be the thing that he wants

1119
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 3: to champion. This is where he wants to make change

1120
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 3: and leave a legacy. And so he created an endowment

1121
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:39,600
Speaker 3: fund with tens of millions of dollars so that we

1122
00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:41,160
Speaker 3: would never run out of money and be able to

1123
00:46:41,160 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 3: continue to provide teachers with free, high quality training and

1124
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,239
Speaker 3: free curriculum materials as well as advocacy resources. And this

1125
00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 3: is how I'm able to do my job, and this

1126
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 3: is how so many teachers are able to teach with

1127
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:55,120
Speaker 3: confidence topics like investing, topics like budgeting, like banking, like

1128
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 3: you know, the things that are developing that they never

1129
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,719
Speaker 3: knew about, like buy now, pay later, or cryptocurrency. We're yeah,

1130
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:04,320
Speaker 3: at the front, forefront of the front lines, like teaching

1131
00:47:04,360 --> 00:47:06,920
Speaker 3: these teachers the cutting edge information so that they're ready

1132
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,040
Speaker 3: to teach it and pass it on to their students.

1133
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:11,719
Speaker 3: So no banks and all that kind of stuff. The

1134
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 3: thing he said about disagreeing on basic fundamental truths in

1135
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:15,600
Speaker 3: this country is actually not a lie.

1136
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 4: That's true.

1137
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:18,040
Speaker 3: There's a lot of divisiveness and depending on you know,

1138
00:47:18,040 --> 00:47:19,640
Speaker 3: money is political, and there are a lot of people

1139
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 3: that disagree with you know, the issues in personal finance.

1140
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 3: The reason why that doesn't really affect this though, is

1141
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,280
Speaker 3: because I have literally went. I've gone from Florida, where

1142
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:32,399
Speaker 3: we passed SB ten fifty four in twenty twenty one.

1143
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:35,840
Speaker 3: The law was successfully passed in Florida, later passed in Georgia,

1144
00:47:36,320 --> 00:47:39,080
Speaker 3: then went up to Michigan, was passed in Michigan, and

1145
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,520
Speaker 3: also passed in Connecticut.

1146
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, Connecticut recently, am Yeah.

1147
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:47,920
Speaker 3: So since Florida, since my work in Florida, it's gone Iowa, Georgia, Michigan, Kansas,

1148
00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 3: New Hampshire, West Virginia, Indiana, Minnesota, and the most recent

1149
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:53,719
Speaker 3: being in May of twenty twenty three, Connecticut, with Louisiana

1150
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:56,839
Speaker 3: following shortly after in I would say early June twenty

1151
00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:59,840
Speaker 3: twenty three. So what we're looking at is this momentum

1152
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:03,399
Speaker 3: wave of regardless if that state is considered a red

1153
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 3: state or a blue state, or who the sponsors who

1154
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:09,200
Speaker 3: championed it are, or if the governor is a Democratic

1155
00:48:09,239 --> 00:48:12,160
Speaker 3: governor or a Republican governor. When we look at Florida

1156
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 3: and Michigan, two states with governors that couldn't be more opposite,

1157
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,680
Speaker 3: both of those states signed the exact same financial literacy legislation.

1158
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 3: So when you say, oh, we can't agree. We can

1159
00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,600
Speaker 3: agree that personal finance is a fundamental, uh you know,

1160
00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 3: skill set that every student needs and deserves.

1161
00:48:28,120 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: And it's true that money has political elements, but it's

1162
00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,520
Speaker 1: also true that a ton of personal finance can and

1163
00:48:33,560 --> 00:48:35,440
Speaker 1: should be and should remain a.

1164
00:48:35,440 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: Political and unbiased agree And when it.

1165
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:42,280
Speaker 1: Comes to the education that's taking place in high schools,

1166
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:44,640
Speaker 1: we actually reminds me of one of our earliest interviews.

1167
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 1: We talked with this guy, Dan Lestal. He was a vice.

1168
00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,040
Speaker 4: President of DAN. I'm actually the president of the board

1169
00:48:49,080 --> 00:48:49,839
Speaker 4: for Niche NIG.

1170
00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 1: Dan is one of our favorite, our favorite guests we've

1171
00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 1: ever had because he took this outside of the box

1172
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 1: approach to teaching kids and and and actually finding ways

1173
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: to attach work to income. Then and they're putting money

1174
00:49:02,200 --> 00:49:03,759
Speaker 1: in these kids hand so they could actually not just

1175
00:49:03,840 --> 00:49:06,359
Speaker 1: learn the principles, but then put them into action and.

1176
00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:07,240
Speaker 2: So it's practical.

1177
00:49:07,360 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 1: I feel like people like you and Dan are on

1178
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,560
Speaker 1: the front lines of this of this fight, and we

1179
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:13,920
Speaker 1: support you all the way. And anybody who says that

1180
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:17,319
Speaker 1: personal finance education in school is a waste of time

1181
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:18,320
Speaker 1: doesn't know what they're.

1182
00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 3: Talking Not only do I not know they're talking about,

1183
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,400
Speaker 3: but they haven't been inside of a school recently. I

1184
00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:23,719
Speaker 3: can tell you that because if I go into these

1185
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 3: schools consistently and frequently for my work, and the students

1186
00:49:27,280 --> 00:49:29,239
Speaker 3: light up. When I hear people say kids don't care

1187
00:49:29,239 --> 00:49:31,840
Speaker 3: about learning personal finance until it's relevant to them, I'm like,

1188
00:49:32,040 --> 00:49:34,120
Speaker 3: do you know what it's like to be sixteen years

1189
00:49:34,120 --> 00:49:36,480
Speaker 3: old and get your driver's license and actually be looking

1190
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,120
Speaker 3: for a car loan and comparing car loan car insurance rates?

1191
00:49:40,239 --> 00:49:41,880
Speaker 3: Do you know what it's like to be seventeen and

1192
00:49:41,920 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 3: want to open your first custodio rot that rate because

1193
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:45,440
Speaker 3: you just got your first job and you're excited and

1194
00:49:45,480 --> 00:49:47,800
Speaker 3: you want to learn about this and not have any

1195
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:49,920
Speaker 3: adult in your life or class in school teaching you

1196
00:49:49,960 --> 00:49:50,720
Speaker 3: about these things.

1197
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 1: It's practical in life changing, and.

1198
00:49:52,719 --> 00:49:55,760
Speaker 3: It's applicable immediately when you are a junior or senior

1199
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:57,680
Speaker 3: in high school. So if you're about to fill out

1200
00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,160
Speaker 3: your fav SEL form and you're learning it and then

1201
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 3: you go do it right away, how can something be

1202
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,000
Speaker 3: more applicable and more immediately beneficial than that? So I

1203
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:08,280
Speaker 3: just think when people talk about these things, it's usually

1204
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:11,080
Speaker 3: the people who are the furthest away from the actual

1205
00:50:11,080 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 3: classrooms who are the least qualified to talk about this

1206
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:14,640
Speaker 3: that are the loudest.

1207
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:17,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, No, you're so true. Yeah on.

1208
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: And there's a whole lot of other things that we

1209
00:50:18,760 --> 00:50:21,640
Speaker 1: forget that we learned in high school, and this is

1210
00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:22,240
Speaker 1: one of those.

1211
00:50:22,120 --> 00:50:24,560
Speaker 2: Things that you're going to remember. You're going to remember

1212
00:50:24,600 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 2: a buzz.

1213
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,839
Speaker 1: Act and even if you don't put in an actual

1214
00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:28,400
Speaker 1: right away, you're going to be like years later you're like,

1215
00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:29,720
Speaker 1: wait a second, I heard like compound.

1216
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:32,319
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, okay, yes, that's right.

1217
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:33,680
Speaker 1: You're going to hear one other thing that's going to

1218
00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:34,239
Speaker 1: trigger something.

1219
00:50:34,320 --> 00:50:36,759
Speaker 2: There's a big difference between learning these things that third

1220
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,239
Speaker 2: and fourth grade versus like what you're saying in high

1221
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,799
Speaker 2: school when it's immediately applicable. And that's what we're talking

1222
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 2: about here. Yeah. I don't know of any teenager who's

1223
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,200
Speaker 2: entering adulthood who isn't concerned at all about money. It's

1224
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,839
Speaker 2: something that they went more of and so teaching them

1225
00:50:51,880 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 2: how to handle it properly I think needs to happen. You, Ellie.

1226
00:50:55,840 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 2: We are so glad that you that this is a

1227
00:50:58,440 --> 00:51:01,000
Speaker 2: charge of a movement that you're leading uh.

1228
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: Thirty more states to go.

1229
00:51:02,080 --> 00:51:06,600
Speaker 2: Yes, but your book, your book, Mind Your Money. That's

1230
00:51:06,640 --> 00:51:08,880
Speaker 2: a part of this as well. For anybody who just

1231
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:11,440
Speaker 2: wants to learn more and who isn't getting this kind

1232
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 2: of information at their school. Where can folks learn more

1233
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:15,279
Speaker 2: about you and find your book?

1234
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 3: Yes, So if you want to follow along with me

1235
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:21,440
Speaker 3: on social media, it's at miss be helpful. That's anywhere Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, TikTok,

1236
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,440
Speaker 3: miss be helpful, m I s s be helpful. And

1237
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,160
Speaker 3: then for all things related to my book, a chapter list,

1238
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:30,720
Speaker 3: details about it, buying it, Mind your moneybook dot Com.

1239
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: Awesome you, Nellie, thanks so much for joining us. We

1240
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:33,560
Speaker 1: really appreciate it.

1241
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:34,920
Speaker 4: Thank you guys. This is great, all.

1242
00:51:34,920 --> 00:51:38,200
Speaker 1: Right, Matt you gotta love you, gotta love you, Nelly good.

1243
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,759
Speaker 1: Just such a good conversation, What an interesting story, what

1244
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,399
Speaker 1: a but and just someone who who puts their money

1245
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,720
Speaker 1: where their mouth is like she is. She is living

1246
00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:50,880
Speaker 1: the life and putting into action all the things she

1247
00:51:50,920 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: believes on a big scale. So love what she's up to.

1248
00:51:54,719 --> 00:51:56,360
Speaker 1: What was your big takeaway from this conversation?

1249
00:51:56,680 --> 00:51:58,920
Speaker 2: She shared a lot about her own personal story, right,

1250
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,960
Speaker 2: and what I love was when she was talking about

1251
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,080
Speaker 2: specifically how to get family or friends on board and

1252
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,319
Speaker 2: she was. Essentially she was she said like, don't tell

1253
00:52:07,360 --> 00:52:10,759
Speaker 2: them about it necessarily, but show them, And she was

1254
00:52:10,800 --> 00:52:12,680
Speaker 2: talking about how you kind of start with the heart,

1255
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:15,120
Speaker 2: you share a story with them. Essentially, what I was

1256
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,960
Speaker 2: gathering from that was that she what it's important to

1257
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,839
Speaker 2: do is to be vulnerable, and I think when you

1258
00:52:20,880 --> 00:52:22,520
Speaker 2: are able to do that, you're able to kind of

1259
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 2: maybe tear down any defenses that there might be with

1260
00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:29,359
Speaker 2: whoever it is that you're trying to talk about money with. So, yeah,

1261
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:31,800
Speaker 2: that's my quick takeaway. Be vulnerable if you're trying to

1262
00:52:31,800 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 2: talk to others about personal finances.

1263
00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:37,120
Speaker 1: But yeah, she said, you find new friends, don't ditch

1264
00:52:37,120 --> 00:52:38,520
Speaker 1: your old ones. We'll find some new ones if you

1265
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:41,480
Speaker 1: need some other advice and encouragement.

1266
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,640
Speaker 2: I think that's the silver lining to social media, which

1267
00:52:44,800 --> 00:52:47,520
Speaker 2: there's not a whole lot of right sides to social media.

1268
00:52:47,520 --> 00:52:48,960
Speaker 2: You know that totally is one.

1269
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:50,319
Speaker 1: And you don't want to cancel people in your life,

1270
00:52:50,320 --> 00:52:52,640
Speaker 1: whether they have different political views, different money views, whatever

1271
00:52:52,640 --> 00:52:54,600
Speaker 1: it is, for any reason. But yeah, you also might

1272
00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:56,960
Speaker 1: need to find people who are supportive of you in

1273
00:52:57,000 --> 00:52:58,560
Speaker 1: this new endeavor if you're trying to get your money

1274
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 1: together too. One of the things she said. At one

1275
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:03,560
Speaker 1: point she met, she said every dollar had a job.

1276
00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:05,400
Speaker 1: When she was talking about her budget, and she was

1277
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: talking about the resolve to ensure that, like she didn't

1278
00:53:07,840 --> 00:53:11,640
Speaker 1: put any purchases on that credit card while she was

1279
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:16,239
Speaker 1: paying it off. And I think that mental fortitude is

1280
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:19,000
Speaker 1: aitch part, yeah, of actually being able to get the

1281
00:53:19,080 --> 00:53:22,040
Speaker 1: job done and getting straight with your money, getting digging

1282
00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:23,840
Speaker 1: yourself out of the hole so you can start to

1283
00:53:23,920 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 1: kind of build the mountain to move forward. And so yeah,

1284
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,799
Speaker 1: I love that she had that, like that fortitude to say,

1285
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 1: not even a twelve dollars charge goes on this credit card,

1286
00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,600
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do without. And I think that's for people

1287
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,359
Speaker 1: who are in a hole right now. It's we're not

1288
00:53:38,440 --> 00:53:42,920
Speaker 1: all a deprivation mentality. That's not our jam, but for

1289
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:46,240
Speaker 1: some people, at certain places in their personal finance journey,

1290
00:53:46,400 --> 00:53:49,800
Speaker 1: deprivation is necessary, right in order to for a time

1291
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,160
Speaker 1: be able to juici your ability to make progress. That's

1292
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 1: what you Nelly did. And now guess what if she

1293
00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: wants to do. She could get that massage every single

1294
00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,160
Speaker 1: week if she wants, which is great because she's made

1295
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 1: so much progress. I think it's just important for people

1296
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: to hear. It's like, it doesn't have to be all

1297
00:54:02,680 --> 00:54:06,000
Speaker 1: deprivation all the time, but sometimes for a period, it's

1298
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:08,200
Speaker 1: going to take a little more of that intentional effort

1299
00:54:08,239 --> 00:54:10,279
Speaker 1: and a little bit of saying no to yourself the

1300
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 1: things that you want and d I winne it, figuring

1301
00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:13,880
Speaker 1: out a way to get around it, be creative.

1302
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:15,399
Speaker 2: There are still ways that you can do it. Yeah,

1303
00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:17,319
Speaker 2: it's not just about the dollars and cents and the

1304
00:54:17,320 --> 00:54:18,799
Speaker 2: money that she was able to save, but it's also

1305
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 2: just a mindset thing and how she was able to

1306
00:54:20,640 --> 00:54:23,400
Speaker 2: prove to herself, not only not only to herself, but

1307
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:25,279
Speaker 2: also do her family that like, no, no, no, I'm not

1308
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,160
Speaker 2: playing it. I'm like, this is something that I'm going

1309
00:54:27,239 --> 00:54:30,640
Speaker 2: to get after and it takes sometimes a principled stand

1310
00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,520
Speaker 2: like that in order to move the needle. But Joe,

1311
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:35,919
Speaker 2: let's talk about the beer you and I enjoyed during

1312
00:54:35,960 --> 00:54:38,680
Speaker 2: this episode. This was a code breaker, a West Coast

1313
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:42,359
Speaker 2: ipa by Trademark Brewing. What were your thoughts on this one.

1314
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 1: Buddy, never had anything by this brewer before. Yeah, I

1315
00:54:44,719 --> 00:54:47,799
Speaker 1: thought it was really good. It's West Coast IPAs are

1316
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,520
Speaker 1: not typically my fave, but I really like this one.

1317
00:54:50,719 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: It was like with you, maybe somewhat dank, but it

1318
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:54,799
Speaker 1: wasn't as bitter, It wasn't a.

1319
00:54:55,080 --> 00:54:56,280
Speaker 2: Little more juicy perhap.

1320
00:54:56,360 --> 00:54:58,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, he is a good middle of the

1321
00:54:58,920 --> 00:55:00,720
Speaker 1: road West Coast, not too hot in that direction.

1322
00:55:01,040 --> 00:55:01,360
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1323
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:03,880
Speaker 2: So we've been drinking a lot of East Coast or

1324
00:55:04,080 --> 00:55:06,000
Speaker 2: New England Hazy's. And one of the great things about

1325
00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,000
Speaker 2: West Coast Ipe's you don't have to worry about the sediment,

1326
00:55:08,080 --> 00:55:10,919
Speaker 2: you know, that's true. You and I. Actually this wasn't

1327
00:55:10,920 --> 00:55:13,440
Speaker 2: even on the show. This you and Emily the family

1328
00:55:13,480 --> 00:55:16,719
Speaker 2: came over and we're enjoying a beer and it had

1329
00:55:16,719 --> 00:55:18,520
Speaker 2: a decent amount of sediment and some of you know,

1330
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:19,920
Speaker 2: I was kind of swirling the can ups that way,

1331
00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:22,240
Speaker 2: we both because a lot of times it's that hop

1332
00:55:23,040 --> 00:55:27,080
Speaker 2: bite that you find in that settlement. It's like hop bits.

1333
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 1: I don't like eating a little bit of a pepper,

1334
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:31,040
Speaker 1: like a hot pepper, you know, and you just get

1335
00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 1: that concentrated.

1336
00:55:31,640 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 2: I'll swirl and making sure that you and I both

1337
00:55:33,239 --> 00:55:36,799
Speaker 2: have this equal amounts of sediment because that's flavor. But yeah,

1338
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,279
Speaker 2: you gotta worry about that when it comes to a

1339
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:42,239
Speaker 2: West Coast ipa. You pour it perfectly clear, delicious, refreshing.

1340
00:55:42,520 --> 00:55:45,000
Speaker 2: This one specifically had some stone fruit I see, which

1341
00:55:45,040 --> 00:55:47,640
Speaker 2: I feel like definitely stood out as we were enjoying it.

1342
00:55:47,719 --> 00:55:49,440
Speaker 2: But yeah, glad you and I got to enjoy a

1343
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:51,960
Speaker 2: trademark beer. But Joe, that's going to be it for

1344
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:54,239
Speaker 2: this episode. We'll make sure to link to some of

1345
00:55:54,280 --> 00:55:56,680
Speaker 2: the different resources we talked about and specifically where you

1346
00:55:56,719 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 2: can learn more about you Nelly find her book, and.

1347
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:02,000
Speaker 1: If you're a teacher, you can link We'll link to

1348
00:56:02,000 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 1: some of those next gen personal finance resources. They are

1349
00:56:04,600 --> 00:56:09,800
Speaker 1: at the forefront of encouraging and promoting financial literacy in schools,

1350
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 1: and you might be able to partner with Yellen Ian

1351
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,200
Speaker 1: Ellie to bring financial education to your state. If you're

1352
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:17,480
Speaker 1: a teacher, you can advocate for that, which is cool.

1353
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:20,040
Speaker 2: So there is real momentum behind what it is that

1354
00:56:20,040 --> 00:56:21,640
Speaker 2: they're doing. But Buddy, that's going to be it for

1355
00:56:21,680 --> 00:56:25,239
Speaker 2: this episode until next time. Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,