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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody. For this week's select, I've chosen our twenty

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Speaker 1: nineteen episode on trick or Treating. It's a really in

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Speaker 1: depth look at trigger treating and it's got a lot

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Speaker 1: of surprising stuff inside, Like it turns out that if

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Speaker 1: you don't set abandoned buildings on fire on Halloween, then

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Speaker 1: you've been trick or treating all wrong all this time.

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Speaker 1: But don't worry. We're releasing this just in time for

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Speaker 1: you to learn the ropes this Halloween. Happy and extremely

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Speaker 1: safe Halloween, everybody.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, and

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Speaker 1: there's Charles v Chuck, Brian over there, there's Jerry, And

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Speaker 1: this is stuff you should know that right before Halloween.

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Speaker 1: Addition about.

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Speaker 3: Feel like a little kid every Alloween.

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty excited about it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, do you get trick or treaters? No?

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Speaker 1: Not really, no kind of life hashtag, et cetera.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I've told my story before, but I'll just

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Speaker 2: briefly summarize again that my house is after a big

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Speaker 2: curve in the road, and people seem to just stop

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Speaker 2: at that curve in the road.

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Speaker 1: Well, they don't want to come up on old man

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Speaker 1: Bryant's house. No, you know, the old dead oak tree

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Speaker 1: with the big hole in it that yeah Boo Radley

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Speaker 1: hides figures in is kind of off putting. Is right

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Speaker 1: on your property.

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Speaker 3: And I think in my neighborhood too.

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Speaker 2: They close they literally close off, the cops close off

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Speaker 2: two blocks.

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Speaker 3: It's just this big square of streets and.

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Speaker 2: That's the official sanctioned no stress area where the parents

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Speaker 2: all just walk around and get drunk and all the

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Speaker 2: kids just run around and don't to worry about cars.

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Speaker 3: Right, So.

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Speaker 2: Everyone in my neighborhood has congregated there and you're outside

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Speaker 2: of them, outside the zone. Yeah, which I kind of miss,

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Speaker 2: Like I like trick or treaters coming to my house.

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Speaker 2: I guess I could maybe try, and well I could

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Speaker 2: move a few houses in which I'm not going to do.

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Speaker 1: We could casually move the the roadblocks a little further

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Speaker 1: back to include your house.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're actual police cars with police officers. I can't

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Speaker 2: move them, give them some but I could put signs

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Speaker 2: that like, you know this way for the best yet

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Speaker 2: and then you like only two more houses.

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Speaker 1: Right, or like leave a trail of candy because I remember.

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Speaker 2: When I first moved to Atlanta, we rented a house

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Speaker 2: that got a lot of trick or treaters and I

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Speaker 2: loved it.

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Speaker 3: Man, I scared the heck out of those kids.

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Speaker 2: Oh really, yeah, it was a lot of fun, Like

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Speaker 2: I really got that was my first big adult giving

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Speaker 2: out candy night, like the first time I've ever been

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Speaker 2: able to do that, because you didn't have kids yet,

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Speaker 2: so we weren't out of trick or treating. And uh yeah,

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Speaker 2: I made a really a punt to music out, like

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Speaker 2: the Psycho theme and scary John Carpenter stuff.

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Speaker 3: Sure, I really enjoyed it.

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Speaker 1: Did you like do anything to overtly scare them?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I wore a I was dressed up as a

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Speaker 2: very scary person.

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Speaker 3: Huh. And I would jump out and scare them over

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Speaker 3: and over and over.

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Speaker 1: Did you really jump out? Good for you, Chuck, or.

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Speaker 2: I would stand in the like Emily would be giving

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Speaker 2: out candy, and I would just be in the darkened house,

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Speaker 2: like eight feet behind her, just standing there motionless.

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Speaker 3: That's always a nice attack.

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Speaker 2: Nice, But the point is I sort of feel like

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Speaker 2: we're missing out, Like we certainly enjoy taking our daughter out,

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Speaker 2: but I really wish we had kids that came by.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I wish you did too, too bad.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a stupid house right there near the main road,

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Speaker 1: so close yet so far away, so far away, and

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Speaker 1: that's your forever house too. Huh Yeah no, trigger treats

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Speaker 1: ever again for you.

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Speaker 3: And walked in there.

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Speaker 2: But what we could do is, you know, we could

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Speaker 2: go to a friend's house and that they jump on

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Speaker 2: their coattails.

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Speaker 1: You can't sit on their couch. You have to take

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Speaker 1: your shoes off in their house. You can't be comfortable.

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Speaker 2: We've long talked to me and my friend Eddie and Allison.

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Speaker 2: You know the I'm about. They have a good backyard.

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Speaker 2: It's about doing like a haunted trail one year that

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Speaker 2: like if you come trick or treating, you got to

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Speaker 2: go through.

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Speaker 3: The trail first.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like a lot of work.

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Speaker 3: It is, and it would be fun, no, I mean for.

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Speaker 1: The kids who have to go through the trail kind

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Speaker 1: of earn right, you got to earn that free candy.

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Speaker 3: Earn that Reesa's pieces.

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Speaker 1: So we just hit upon like fifteen different themes in

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Speaker 1: this episode. If you'll if you'll agree, I agree, yes,

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Speaker 1: So we're talking about trick or treating here, and if

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Speaker 1: you look at the thing on its face, just the

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Speaker 1: words trick or treat, there seems to be some sort

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Speaker 1: of option here. You can do one or the other.

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Speaker 1: There used to be give me a treat or you

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Speaker 1: get a trick, basically was the equation.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, they should just change the name now to just

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Speaker 3: treat night.

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Speaker 1: Treat night, right exactly. We aren't one hundred you sent

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Speaker 1: sure on where trigger treating came from, but what we

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Speaker 1: do know is that it was originated in America in

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Speaker 1: the twentieth century, and that there was this really like

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Speaker 1: brief Golden age where it lived up to its name

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Speaker 1: trick or treat. There was a there was an offer

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Speaker 1: to not get pranked or tricked, and if you didn't

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Speaker 1: take the people up on the offer, the kids up

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Speaker 1: on the offer by giving them candy, you got pranked.

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Speaker 1: That was the equation. It was in the name. Everybody

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Speaker 1: knew the score. And then it slowly kind of moved

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Speaker 1: over to what we understand today, where the police set

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Speaker 1: up roadblocks and everything is.

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Speaker 3: Safe these kids these days, and it's just.

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Speaker 1: Kinda just like you said, just the treat side of

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Speaker 1: the equation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was, of course kidding but we'll get to it.

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Speaker 2: There are people that really do decry this new generation

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Speaker 2: of children who just expect handouts and that it leads

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Speaker 2: to the idea of the welfare state, right, and all

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Speaker 2: this other garbage that I have no patience for sure,

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Speaker 2: because it's just a fun thing for kids. Yeah, do

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Speaker 2: you think they should be earning the stuff?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 3: No, No, I don't feel that way.

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Speaker 1: I do feel well, I think it'll come through loud

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Speaker 1: and clear as we do the episode.

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, we should jump back a little bit to

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Speaker 2: the origins of Halloween. We've gone over this before an

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Speaker 2: episode's past, but we all know it originally started as

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Speaker 2: a pagan harvest or not just one, but pagan harvest

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Speaker 2: festivals in general among the Celts over in the UK. Yes,

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Speaker 2: and that evolved into Halloween, but it had nothing to

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Speaker 2: do with trick or treating at the time.

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Speaker 1: No, it wasn't wrong. Again, trick or treating is a

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Speaker 1: one hundred percent American invention, that's right. And so with

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Speaker 1: Halloween in particular, you've got all these different components for

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Speaker 1: the modern Halloween or for trick or treating. Yes, you

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Speaker 1: have going from house to house, you have getting two

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Speaker 1: said house and asking for a treat, basically sanctioned begging,

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Speaker 1: got your costume, costume, dressing up, being outside, kind of

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Speaker 1: parading around. All of these things find their origin in

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Speaker 1: the Celtic and I think specifically Gaelic harvest festivals that

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Speaker 1: introduced the dark half of the year. That's right, And

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Speaker 1: in particular there was Sowyn, which forever I've always said

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Speaker 1: sam Hayne, because that's how it's spelled.

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Speaker 3: Now, you said Salen right when we did our have

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Speaker 3: a wee an episode, didn't you? Probably? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: By the way, speaking of sown or sam Hayne, you

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Speaker 1: realized that I went to New York and saw the

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Speaker 1: Misfits on Saturday.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, how was that?

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Speaker 1: I mean it, it was great, colossally amazing. This is

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Speaker 1: the original Misfits, right, the original Misfits. Glenn Danzig, Jerry

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Speaker 1: Only Sure, Doyle, Wolfgang von Frankenstein. Yeah, who actually specifically

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Speaker 1: invited us to this listener right, yes, to this this show.

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Speaker 3: And it was that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Knock your socks off?

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Speaker 3: Didn't the Damned play as well?

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Speaker 1: The Damned opened, and then Rancid and then the Misfits

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Speaker 1: just tore the roof off the sucker.

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Speaker 3: I saw when I saw you were going.

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Speaker 2: I looked up some YouTube clips of this tour and

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Speaker 2: it looked pretty amazing.

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Speaker 1: It was amazing and I think Glenn Danzig said that

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Speaker 1: was their last one ever. Oh really, and so we

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Speaker 1: got to see it. Wow, yeah, you me and I

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Speaker 1: had a great time.

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Speaker 3: Amazing.

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Speaker 1: So big, big thanks to Doyle Wolfgang von Frankenstein for

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Speaker 1: the invite.

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Speaker 3: The stage set up looked great, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was just a really cool show and they played

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Speaker 1: almost everything.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was just a really good show.

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Speaker 3: That's fantastic. So anyway back to Sowyn, Yeah, so I

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Speaker 3: mean that's a perfect time to mention that show. Though

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Speaker 3: it all worked out, it did.

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Speaker 2: Hallow's Eve was the night considered when the veil between

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Speaker 2: the living and the dead was the shortest, and so

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Speaker 2: that's when this that's when Halloween formed.

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Speaker 1: Right right, So people would dress up in like modern

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Speaker 1: day Ireland, Scotland, I believe, Wales. Yeah, man, they would

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Speaker 1: dress up like demons or fairies or supernatural characters who

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Speaker 1: were because this veil was so thin between the living

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Speaker 1: and the dead or the supernatural, right, they could cross over.

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Speaker 3: These preachers could cross over and communicate.

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Speaker 1: So if you dressed up them. Maybe they would be

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Speaker 1: confused and think you're one of them and leave you alone.

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Speaker 4: That's right.

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Speaker 1: So this now we've got the costume thing going right.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 2: And part of that was the community getting together, getting

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Speaker 2: drunk on you know, probably high octanea meat and stuff

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Speaker 2: like that, and they would pray through the town. They

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Speaker 2: still have Halloween parades all over the place. Right here

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Speaker 2: in Atlanta we have one of the best and little

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Speaker 2: Five Points Halloween parade.

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Speaker 1: Fantastic, Like when you think about the Halloween preyed at

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Speaker 1: your town, like that is centuries millennia old. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: tradition is.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So we have those two things going on, and then

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Speaker 2: the one missing piece is knock knock, Hey give me candy. Right,

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Speaker 2: But this we have the origins of which came and

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Speaker 2: it's still not Halloween. It took American kids to put

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Speaker 2: all this stuff together. But the European tradition of souling,

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Speaker 2: which was when kids on Hallow z would go from

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Speaker 2: house to house and pray for the souls the departed,

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Speaker 2: and in exchange you would get a soul cake.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, which I looked up. They look pretty good.

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Speaker 3: What is it? Just a little bit good?

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Speaker 1: It looks like a muffin top like top of the muffin.

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Speaker 1: To you, it looks really good.

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Speaker 2: Soul cakes or mumming, which is and this sounds fantastic.

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Speaker 2: I wish kids still had to do this stuff. You

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Speaker 2: would have to perform a short musical number or some

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Speaker 2: kind of performance to get a treat of some kind, right,

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Speaker 2: maybe a little spare change.

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Speaker 1: Right, So in that sense you have going to house

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Speaker 1: to house and getting something from the owners of the house,

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Speaker 1: like a treat or something like that.

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Speaker 3: That's right, But there was a reason.

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Speaker 1: For that, praying for the soul of their departed loved one,

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Speaker 1: doing a little dance number something like that. The prank part,

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Speaker 1: the prank part of the equation that also existed before

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Speaker 1: trick or treating too, and in fact that was kind

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Speaker 1: of the origin the biggest tradition of Halloween itself was pranking.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and that came from Ireland, is that right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in the eighteen eighties, they would prank. They would

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Speaker 1: just run around doing pranks and then they would blame

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Speaker 1: those fairies or demons, right, han sown for the mischief

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Speaker 1: that it wasn't nuts, it was the fairies.

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Speaker 3: On sam Hin, right, I mean it sounds.

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Speaker 1: That's how it's spelled.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really that's a confounding pronunciation, it is.

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Speaker 1: But there you have it.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 2: And then pranks back then, and of course we're pretty

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Speaker 2: low key dingdung ditch stuff like that, moving the neighbor's

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Speaker 2: furniture to the roof.

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Speaker 1: I saw that. Yeah, flower pot on the chimney. Sure,

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Speaker 1: but it would also get way way worse than that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I looked up mischief night. We never did that.

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Speaker 2: In Georgia, no or Devil's Night.

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Speaker 1: It was also called.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, which is the night before Halloween when all these

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Speaker 2: pranks would happen region to region is called different apparently.

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Speaker 2: In New Jersey it's mischief Night, Cabbage Nights. Well, in Camden,

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Speaker 2: New Jersey's Mischief Night. Other parts of New Jersey call

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Speaker 2: it cabbage Night. Since NATA calls it Damage Night.

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Speaker 1: That's pretty overt. That's a punk band name, right there.

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Speaker 3: Damage Night, Yeah, totally that you insurance deductible night. Other part.

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Speaker 2: I don't know why Ohio is so highly represented here.

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Speaker 2: Beggar's Knight is something else. They called it in Ohio.

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Speaker 1: Chok, because there's nothing else to do in Ohio but

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Speaker 1: sit around and wait for that night.

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Speaker 3: For Hellow's Eve.

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Speaker 2: Other names Doorbell Knight, Trick Night, Corn Night, Tic Tac Night,

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Speaker 2: Goosey Night, and then in Canada Gate Night or Matt

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Speaker 2: Knight if you're in Quebec, because mat.

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Speaker 3: They would take.

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Speaker 1: They would steal the gate off your fence or the

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Speaker 1: mat from your doorstep and.

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Speaker 3: Oh really remove it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so they're pretty on the nose, especially Damage Night.

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Speaker 2: But Devil's Night in Detroit it became legendary over about

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Speaker 2: a twenty year period in the seventies and through the

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Speaker 2: mid nineties. I saw before they finally got a little

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Speaker 2: bit of a could put a dent in it by

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Speaker 2: forming Angels Night.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they kind of rebranded it.

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Speaker 3: Well, not rebranded.

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Speaker 2: The angels were volunteers who would walk around to keep

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Speaker 2: kids from setting everything on fire.

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Speaker 1: Oh okay, because that's what they did on Devil's Night.

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Speaker 3: It was a night of arsen It was a night

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Speaker 3: of arson.

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Speaker 1: I thought that it ran its course because they burned

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Speaker 1: all the buildings down in Detroit. There was nothing else left.

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Speaker 3: It was a real problem.

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Speaker 2: Though I looked into it and like hundreds of kids,

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Speaker 2: Like in nineteen ninety four, I think there were like

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Speaker 2: three hundred and fifteen kids arrested from the Devils Night

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Speaker 2: fires and other stuff.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen eighty four, the peak of Devil's Night in Detroit,

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Speaker 1: there were eight hundred and ten cases of arson in

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Speaker 1: one night. Amazing in Detroit. Yeah, they would just set

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Speaker 1: the city on fire.

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Speaker 2: And I'm sure some of these were bags of poop

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Speaker 2: on a doorstep, which I think we can all agree

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Speaker 2: is harmless fun.

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Speaker 1: It is, unless you're the steppy cever.

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Speaker 3: Did any of the stuff? I never rolled a house.

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Speaker 1: Oh you didn't, Now that was fun.

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Speaker 3: I'm so mad. I was so busy being good.

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Speaker 1: Never too late, buddy.

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Speaker 3: I know I should roll a house or fork a yard.

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Speaker 1: I don't know if that is the plastic forks.

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Speaker 2: Just basically get like two thousand plastic forks and stick

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Speaker 2: them in the yard.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I've never heard of that one. You never

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Speaker 3: did that. Really chew up a lawnmower.

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Speaker 2: I never egged a house because I always heard that, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: really damage his paint.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. We did have the Junior senior egg fight every year.

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Speaker 3: That was kind of fun.

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Speaker 1: Well, there you go, you got something.

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Speaker 3: We get together in a field and throw eggs at

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Speaker 3: each other.

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Speaker 1: Aside from wasting a lot of press resource with well eggs, yes,

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Speaker 1: but also toilet paper. You really should roll somebody's house

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Speaker 1: at least once in your life. It's great, is it?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? All right, Yeah, I'm gonna roll your condo.

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Speaker 1: I remember when I was a kid. Actually, my friend

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Speaker 1: and I rolled the neighbor's house, but we had to

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Speaker 1: be in or at least, so we were doing it

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Speaker 1: basically in broad daylight. It was dusk at best, and

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Speaker 1: the cop drove by, which never happened in our neighborhood ever.

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Speaker 3: Never.

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Speaker 1: The cops just weren't needed, right, It was just I

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Speaker 1: think we talked about in the free Range episode in

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Speaker 1: parents episode, you could just do whatever. And we had

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Speaker 1: to knock out of the house of the neighbor whose

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Speaker 1: house we just rolled to let us in to hide

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Speaker 1: from the cop. She went out and told the cop like,

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Speaker 1: it's it's fine, don't worry about it. We rolled her

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Speaker 1: house and had to get safe harbor from her.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, And you can't really clean up a roll house,

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Speaker 3: can you.

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Speaker 1: You can? And if they come tell your parents what

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Speaker 1: you did. The rain makes it way worse.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, but I mean you can't you up there can right?

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Speaker 1: Some of it's inevitably stuck up there. But you can

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Speaker 1: pull it down as gingerly as you can to get

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Speaker 1: as much as you can. But no, some's going to

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Speaker 1: be left over.

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Speaker 3: All right, I'm going to roll a house.

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Speaker 1: Okay, just know whose house you're rolling, like, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to get shot at or anything.

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Speaker 2: I don't see that anymore either, I feel like it.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't live in the suburbs. Maybe it's

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Speaker 2: a little more prone to happen there. Yeah, but it

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Speaker 2: seems like a lost art it very well.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I don't know anybody who rolls. I just assumed

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Speaker 1: it was because we'd outgrown it, you know.

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Speaker 3: Emily called it teeping house.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's Ohio.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, all right, let's take a break.

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Speaker 1: We barely talked about this. I think we're one page

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Speaker 1: in good that's great, all.

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Speaker 4: Right, stop, should stop, should know?

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Speaker 3: All right.

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Speaker 1: So to recap, Chuck, we have the costumes in play now.

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Speaker 1: We have being out on Halloween nights sometimes parading drunkenly community,

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Speaker 1: we have going from house to house, and we have

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Speaker 1: the prank factor.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 1: All of these things are out there, floating around, have

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Speaker 1: been out there for centuries millennia. By the time America

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00:17:02,560 --> 00:17:05,320
Speaker 1: is born and makes it to the twentieth century, and

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00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:10,040
Speaker 1: at some point some kids said, we think, hey, you

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00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,400
Speaker 1: know what, we could pull all this together and turn

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Speaker 1: it into something really amazing and peculiar and unique called

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Speaker 1: trick or treating.

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Speaker 3: That's right.

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Speaker 2: You found a great piece from a sociologist named Samira Kawash,

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Speaker 2: great name called Gangsters, Pranksters, and trick or Treating nineteen

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Speaker 2: thirty to nineteen sixty.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and is this.

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Speaker 2: That pure period, Yeah, that you were talking about where

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Speaker 2: she thinks that American kids just created this thing.

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00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:43,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's two historical views, because we don't know where

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00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:43,600
Speaker 1: it came from.

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Speaker 3: Huh.

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Speaker 1: One historical view, and I think this is what Kawash

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Speaker 1: believes too, is that it was actually kids who figured

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Speaker 1: this out, which is great, who said we can extort

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00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:56,040
Speaker 1: adults to not prank them if they give us treats, right,

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Speaker 1: And that it was a genuinely a kid in mention

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00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,000
Speaker 1: of kids, they made it up, right, And there's some

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Speaker 1: evidence for that kind of thing. A lot of like

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00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,200
Speaker 1: the early newspaper accounts of it kind of call the

390
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Speaker 1: kids gangsters and say they're extorting people. It's also possible

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Speaker 1: that was like written super tongue in cheek and that dry.

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Speaker 1: It was kind of dry and lost to the ages.

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00:18:18,680 --> 00:18:19,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The other historical view is that the kids were out

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Speaker 1: pranking and doing the pranks, and it was the adults

396
00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:29,960
Speaker 1: that introduced treats into the equation to buy them off,

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Speaker 1: okay to yeah, to keep them from pranking.

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Speaker 2: Right, Los Angeles possibly as the point of origin, and

399
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:43,919
Speaker 2: this one wealthy kids. I guess that makes sense that

400
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,399
Speaker 2: this would be the idea of like kids a privilege. Sure,

401
00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 2: you know, like come around, give me stuff. But apparently

402
00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:53,239
Speaker 2: in Los Angeles, kids in the wealthy parts of town

403
00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:55,440
Speaker 2: would dress up and their parents would take them around

404
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:59,680
Speaker 2: from house to house and this is this is that

405
00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:02,160
Speaker 2: pre nineteen thirty period though.

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00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:03,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, they think sometime in the twenties, and if you

407
00:19:03,960 --> 00:19:07,600
Speaker 1: think about it, that really resembles what we do today. Yeah,

408
00:19:08,119 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 1: But in between that origin and where we've arrived today,

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00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,560
Speaker 1: there was this pure period nineteen thirty to nineteen sixties.

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00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:18,800
Speaker 1: Some people might even take it a little further beyond that,

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00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:23,360
Speaker 1: where the kids seem to have run the show, and

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00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,720
Speaker 1: there really was both sides of the equation.

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00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,840
Speaker 2: A trick or a treat, right, But that term actually

414
00:19:30,960 --> 00:19:33,480
Speaker 2: was in nineteen twenty seven in an article. Right, it's

415
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,879
Speaker 2: at the first time they found the two words in print.

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00:19:36,720 --> 00:19:38,439
Speaker 3: Together, I guess three words.

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00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:43,280
Speaker 2: That was in an article about a town called Blackie

418
00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,960
Speaker 2: in Alberta, Canada. Yeah, and it seems like all of

419
00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:49,280
Speaker 2: it was sort of on the West coast early on.

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00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,399
Speaker 1: Yeah, and again they think possibly it did originate in

421
00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 1: Los Angeles, or it may have originated in multiple towns

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00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:57,920
Speaker 1: on the West coast roughly at the same time.

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00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,840
Speaker 2: But we're thinking twenties because in nineteen nineteen there was

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00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,399
Speaker 2: a book by Ruth Edna called Ruth ruth Na Kelly

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Speaker 2: called The Book of Halloween, and it didn't mention any

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00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:10,320
Speaker 2: kind of trick or treating in there.

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00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,800
Speaker 1: No, and it's like an exhaustive, comprehensive homemaker.

428
00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:16,320
Speaker 3: Oh review would have been in there, right for sure,

429
00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:16,600
Speaker 3: and you.

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00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:19,320
Speaker 1: Got to think, like poor Ruth ed Ni Kelly's like, gosh,

431
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,639
Speaker 1: if I just waited like two years to put this

432
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Speaker 1: book out, they're going to come up with something brand

433
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Speaker 1: new with Halloween two years after I come.

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Speaker 3: Up with this book, I wrote the book on it. Right,

435
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:30,920
Speaker 3: not quite now it's out of date.

436
00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:33,920
Speaker 2: But they did find mentions of it in newspapers out

437
00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:39,800
Speaker 2: West Portland, Washington, Reno, Nevada, Nevada, Helena, Montana.

438
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you can kind of track its progress from

439
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:46,919
Speaker 1: the dates and mentions in West East paper articles. Right. Yeah.

440
00:20:47,040 --> 00:20:49,879
Speaker 1: So there's those two sides. One say that it was

441
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:53,639
Speaker 1: kids who came up with it on their own. Perhaps

442
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:55,760
Speaker 1: they were introduced with the idea of going from house

443
00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:59,360
Speaker 1: to house to get treats in Los Angeles, but then

444
00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,639
Speaker 1: they said, well, we're also doing these prankings. Maybe we

445
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:03,400
Speaker 1: can say, hey, we won't prank you if you give

446
00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,320
Speaker 1: us a treat. There's that view. The other view, again

447
00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:09,840
Speaker 1: is that it was adults who said, whoa kids, You know,

448
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,959
Speaker 1: we don't want you setting fires any longer, derailing street

449
00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:15,600
Speaker 1: cars because every once in a while, somebody would die,

450
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:20,439
Speaker 1: people would get shot at by angry neighbors. Sometimes somebody

451
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: would be in one of those buildings that they set

452
00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:24,480
Speaker 1: on fire and they die. People would die in a

453
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 1: building that kids set on fire as a Halloween prank.

454
00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,400
Speaker 1: So for the most part though, it was just kind

455
00:21:29,440 --> 00:21:33,520
Speaker 1: of tolerated as one night a year when the kids

456
00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,280
Speaker 1: basically had power and we're allowed to run the show.

457
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: So this idea, this other historical view that adults finally said, hey,

458
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,840
Speaker 1: you know, we're not going to just say you can't

459
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,320
Speaker 1: do pranking. That'll probably be a bad thing. But why

460
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,160
Speaker 1: don't we just start having parties on Halloween night while

461
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,080
Speaker 1: we're out pranking, and they'll be cider and doughnuts, and

462
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 1: you can come inside and bob for apples and maybe

463
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,119
Speaker 1: do that instead of running around pranking the neighborhood. And

464
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,640
Speaker 1: once you did do that, you went from and this

465
00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:04,080
Speaker 1: is samir k Wash putting it, like you under the

466
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:08,280
Speaker 1: rules of society. You went from this powerful kid who

467
00:22:08,280 --> 00:22:10,320
Speaker 1: could levy a prank on you if he or she

468
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:13,600
Speaker 1: wanted to, to a house guest of the adult who

469
00:22:13,640 --> 00:22:16,560
Speaker 1: now had you in and had given you donuts and cider.

470
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:18,960
Speaker 1: You're really going to set their house on fire as

471
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:21,040
Speaker 1: a prank after that? Of course not, you're not going to.

472
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,560
Speaker 1: So in this sense, trick or treating was something the

473
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:29,480
Speaker 1: adults introduced to keep kids from carrying out these pranks.

474
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:31,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was by the time World War two

475
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:34,840
Speaker 2: came around. It was a big thing in the nineteen forties.

476
00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,600
Speaker 2: But of course, with the sugar rationing and just the

477
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:40,960
Speaker 2: fact that there was World War two going on, it

478
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:42,760
Speaker 2: put a dent in it for a little while, but

479
00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:46,760
Speaker 2: it came back bigger than it ever had been after

480
00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:47,480
Speaker 2: the war, And.

481
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:51,520
Speaker 1: I mean seriously, it came very close to dying out

482
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 1: going from World War Two. It was pretty new. It

483
00:22:53,880 --> 00:22:56,080
Speaker 1: hadn't gained that much traction. There were a lot of

484
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 1: cranks and grumps who were not happy about this kind

485
00:22:58,800 --> 00:22:59,080
Speaker 1: of thing.

486
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,119
Speaker 2: I'm curious what else had died in the war and

487
00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,840
Speaker 2: never came back. There's got to be lots of little things.

488
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 1: That's a great question to look it up.

489
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,040
Speaker 2: But there were a couple of big pop culture sort

490
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:15,560
Speaker 2: of tent poles that helped Halloween along Charles Schultz's pe Nuts.

491
00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,520
Speaker 2: Of course, it wasn't the Great Pumpkin Charlie Brown yet.

492
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 1: That was the sixties, I think, yeah.

493
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:23,520
Speaker 2: But in nineteen fifty one he had a four day

494
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:28,360
Speaker 2: comic strip run around Halloween where the Peanuts gang got

495
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,200
Speaker 2: already and got their costumes going, and that really brought

496
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: it to the forefront.

497
00:23:32,640 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 3: And then Donald Duck. It was a cartoon Donald Duck Trick.

498
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 2: Or Treat a year after that that had Donald working

499
00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,680
Speaker 2: with his nephews, or trying to prank his nephews while

500
00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:45,080
Speaker 2: they were trick or treating and working with a witch,

501
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:47,560
Speaker 2: and then the candy companies get involved.

502
00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:51,280
Speaker 1: There was also a very famous costume company called Ben

503
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:52,360
Speaker 1: Cooper Costumes.

504
00:23:52,720 --> 00:23:54,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, they're the ones that did like the cheap.

505
00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 1: Yes, plastic mask like a Vinyl smod that's right. But

506
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,520
Speaker 1: they had this really great talent of identifying what was

507
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,120
Speaker 1: going to be like a hop culture phenomenon.

508
00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:06,360
Speaker 3: Before it ever blew up. Yeah, it'd get the right.

509
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,480
Speaker 1: They're cheap, yeah, but they were also making these things

510
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,439
Speaker 1: like ten months before, so they really had to have

511
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,720
Speaker 1: foresight and they were really good at it. But the

512
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 1: fact that you could get cheap, amazing costumes that the

513
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,800
Speaker 1: little kids all wanted of their favorite characters, yeah, that

514
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:22,320
Speaker 1: definitely helped things along too.

515
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was It's hard to overstate like how big

516
00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:27,919
Speaker 2: of a deal it was to a kid to be

517
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:30,440
Speaker 2: that the certain whatever they wanted to be. I think

518
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,640
Speaker 2: it's still that way, I'm sure it is, but now

519
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,159
Speaker 2: it's a lot easier, I think to buy costumes, right.

520
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,440
Speaker 2: I think when you and I were kids, there's a

521
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:39,840
Speaker 2: lot of fashioning costumes.

522
00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:41,240
Speaker 1: Uh huh.

523
00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:43,919
Speaker 2: When you didn't have the ability to be like the

524
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:47,840
Speaker 2: alien from Alien or you know, it was a lot

525
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:51,040
Speaker 2: harder to put together these elaborate costumes, but once you

526
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 2: get your heart set on it, you like you had.

527
00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 3: To sure, you know.

528
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: So I'm going to tell you my best costume, and

529
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,840
Speaker 1: you tell me yours. Okay, okay, my mom made one

530
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:04,280
Speaker 1: from scratch. Yeah, clown is a clown costume. But the

531
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,600
Speaker 1: big kicker was that it was an upside down clown

532
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 1: walking on his hands, So my feet were the clown's hands. Yes,

533
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,120
Speaker 1: his head is like dangling between my legs. I've got

534
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: his legs sticking up off of my shoulders and I

535
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 1: don't remember my head must have been covered up like

536
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:19,800
Speaker 1: I was in his butt or something like that, right,

537
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,840
Speaker 1: but I was upside down walking clown. Greatest costume ever?

538
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,959
Speaker 3: Really? Yeah? Got any pictures somewhere? Okay?

539
00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:26,639
Speaker 4: Yeah.

540
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 2: I did a lot of funny ones, like my brother

541
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,440
Speaker 2: and I were Han Solo and Luke Skywalker when I

542
00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 2: was really little nice. But then I got into like

543
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,560
Speaker 2: I was always wanted to do like funny characters. I

544
00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 2: like like I like Ed Grimley one year, the Saturday

545
00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 2: Night Live character I did Ed Grimley one year, and

546
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:44,440
Speaker 2: I was I don't know, I felt like I was

547
00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 2: always trying to make people laugh. I never did scary.

548
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,280
Speaker 1: Stuff until little kids started coming around and trick or

549
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: treating me at your house.

550
00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:53,640
Speaker 3: Yes, and then you started just scaring like movie characters.

551
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 2: Like even into my adult years, you know, I would

552
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,479
Speaker 2: try and find some cool movie character, like Hi from

553
00:25:59,560 --> 00:26:00,359
Speaker 2: Raising your Zona.

554
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:01,000
Speaker 3: I did one year.

555
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,199
Speaker 1: It's almost a grimly same here.

556
00:26:03,520 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 3: Uh No, not all actually uh.

557
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,719
Speaker 2: And then one year I did a great I actually

558
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 2: won a contest in New Jersey one year when I

559
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:16,400
Speaker 2: was a hardy kushna and I like shaved my head.

560
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:18,800
Speaker 2: I did the whole thing. Wow, I had literature. I

561
00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:21,640
Speaker 2: passed out. Wow, made the whole the whole deal.

562
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,119
Speaker 1: You just ended up joining a local chapter for a

563
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: little while. It was fine, really got into the role.

564
00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:29,439
Speaker 3: But I haven't. It's been a few years since I've

565
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:30,040
Speaker 3: dressed up.

566
00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:34,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, same here, because I just, oh, that's not true.

567
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 3: I haven't been.

568
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 2: I haven't been to a Halloween party in probably five years. Right,

569
00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:39,680
Speaker 2: what were you last year?

570
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:43,320
Speaker 1: I was Patrick Bateman from American Psycho.

571
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 3: So you were you, but with a tie, right and like.

572
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 1: A giant inflatable brick cell phone.

573
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:49,600
Speaker 3: Uh huh?

574
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:55,200
Speaker 1: And you was a specific Michael Jackson A moment of

575
00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's history where he's holding blanket over the balcony.

576
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 1: Oh sure, and Momo wast it's you can see it

577
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:03,800
Speaker 1: on Instagram.

578
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 3: That's great. Yeah, I have to check that out, all right.

579
00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:09,240
Speaker 2: So the candy company started getting involved, That's where I

580
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: left off.

581
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, because the costume company.

582
00:27:11,720 --> 00:27:13,240
Speaker 3: They knew it was gold for them.

583
00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:19,120
Speaker 2: Mars Incorporated in the early nineteen fifties were doing ad

584
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:22,240
Speaker 2: campaigns on TV and in newspapers and on the radio

585
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:26,120
Speaker 2: and stuff about trick or treat. It became a thing

586
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,320
Speaker 2: with UNISEF. They had a Trick or Treat for UNISEF

587
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:30,200
Speaker 2: campaign back then.

588
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:32,159
Speaker 1: I think they still might, you know. You know, I'm

589
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: talking about the little boxes. I think so holds change.

590
00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:35,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, and they.

591
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 1: Would just give them to little kids, and while they

592
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:39,000
Speaker 1: were out trick or treating, they'd also ask for change

593
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:42,719
Speaker 1: for UNISEF right to help needy kids overseas. Yeah, and

594
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:45,760
Speaker 1: that actually went a really long way to legitimizing trick

595
00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:46,280
Speaker 1: or treating.

596
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:46,680
Speaker 3: Yeah.

597
00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:48,920
Speaker 2: They're doing a lot in these days too for kids

598
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,320
Speaker 2: special needs kids like it. It's taken this long to

599
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 2: finally get the word out, Like the blue pumpkins.

600
00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:56,120
Speaker 3: Have you heard of those?

601
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: If you trick or treat with a blue pumpkin, that

602
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 2: means that you have some special need where you may

603
00:28:01,240 --> 00:28:03,399
Speaker 2: not be able to walk to a front door and

604
00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,720
Speaker 2: say trick or treat. I'm dressed as you know, Michigan

605
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 2: j bullfrog what.

606
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 3: That'd be a great costume? It would be.

607
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: But did you pull that off of I just yeah, wow, nice.

608
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:17,440
Speaker 3: He's been on my mind lately. I guess so.

609
00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 2: But so people know, like, oh, you've got a blue pumpkin,

610
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:24,400
Speaker 2: so I shouldn't say, like, you know, come on, kid,

611
00:28:24,440 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 2: why don't you tell me what your costume is?

612
00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:27,320
Speaker 3: And?

613
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:27,640
Speaker 1: Uh?

614
00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,439
Speaker 3: It's good though, like that it's taken.

615
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 2: It's ironic that it's taken this long to get parents

616
00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:36,919
Speaker 2: on board to the fact that some kids need, you know,

617
00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:38,400
Speaker 2: different kinds of treatment.

618
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,000
Speaker 1: I don't know if ironic is the best word, as

619
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 1: much as disappointing is. Yeah, you know, you're probably right.

620
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: Should we take another break? Oh my god, we're gonna

621
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: have to take three more?

622
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:48,920
Speaker 3: No?

623
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: Not, okay, yes, we will then.

624
00:29:12,320 --> 00:29:23,680
Speaker 4: Stop? You should know stop? You should I should know?

625
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: All right, So I think basically what we were saying

626
00:29:27,160 --> 00:29:30,640
Speaker 1: when we left off, it's sorry about the nostalgia here everybody.

627
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: But I mean, come on, you.

628
00:29:31,960 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 3: Get us in a room. Yeah, around Halloween, it's going

629
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:34,640
Speaker 3: to happen.

630
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: So by the early fifties, trigger treating was huge and

631
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:44,200
Speaker 1: established and had so if the nineteen thirty to nineteen

632
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,080
Speaker 1: sixty was the Heyday, the golden age of trigger treating,

633
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,560
Speaker 1: nineteen fifty to nineteen fifty nine was the salad days

634
00:29:52,760 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: of the Heyday?

635
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 3: Right?

636
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,360
Speaker 2: And when did people start complaining about it? The seventies

637
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 2: and eighties, nineties.

638
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,400
Speaker 1: Far back as the twenties. Oh really, yeah, because those

639
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,800
Speaker 1: newspaper articles that you can track the progress of Halloween,

640
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: more often than not they were like old cranks complaining

641
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,480
Speaker 1: about how they didn't want to have to give tricks

642
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:16,640
Speaker 1: or treats or whatever little kids.

643
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:18,160
Speaker 3: Don't you blackmail me?

644
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,719
Speaker 1: They don't, Yeah, exactly, you know, what are we teaching

645
00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:23,920
Speaker 1: our kids? And there's actually, if you kind of scratch

646
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,320
Speaker 1: beneath the surface of trick or treating, at first, it

647
00:30:26,360 --> 00:30:29,959
Speaker 1: appears to be kind of a weird power struggle between

648
00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,920
Speaker 1: kids and adults, and it definitely is that, But there's

649
00:30:33,960 --> 00:30:38,320
Speaker 1: also another power struggle going on between adults of two

650
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 1: different minds, ones who are like you are overparenting by

651
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,080
Speaker 1: being upset about this or like this is just one

652
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,760
Speaker 1: night a year, it's good for kids, and other people

653
00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: are saying like this is terrible for kids. Well, allowing

654
00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 1: them to go from house to house to beg is

655
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,280
Speaker 1: just a bad idea. It's unsafe a is another way

656
00:30:55,320 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 1: to put it to. So there's like a struggle weirdly

657
00:30:58,280 --> 00:30:59,840
Speaker 1: over trick or treating, and it has to do with

658
00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,840
Speaker 1: underparenting and overparenting and that conversation about the whole thing.

659
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:08,719
Speaker 2: I have seen parents ruin kids' experiences, whether it's like

660
00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 2: a Easter egg hunt or trick or treating.

661
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 3: I've seen this in action.

662
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:18,440
Speaker 1: Because they're too involved. Yeah, yeah, I mean that's what

663
00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 1: it comes down to, is just how involved are you

664
00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,960
Speaker 1: in your kids trick or treating. For a very brief period,

665
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:29,440
Speaker 1: there was very little involvement in kids trick or treating. Yeah,

666
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 1: and a lot of people say that's actually really good

667
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:34,360
Speaker 1: for kids. In this other way that we've kind of

668
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:36,240
Speaker 1: started to evolve toward is not.

669
00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:39,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't remember my parents taking me around trick

670
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:42,280
Speaker 2: or treating. I'm sure that happened maybe when I was

671
00:31:42,320 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: really little, and we certainly would have had to go

672
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,720
Speaker 2: somewhere else, because you know, I've lived on the dirt road,

673
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,960
Speaker 2: the dirt road with no neighbors or very few of them.

674
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:56,360
Speaker 2: But I just all my memories stem from being like

675
00:31:56,800 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 2: probably ten to fifteen and being completely on my own

676
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:01,720
Speaker 2: with my friends.

677
00:32:02,920 --> 00:32:04,960
Speaker 3: Ten to fifteen, ten years old.

678
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,400
Speaker 1: But to fifteen, that's pretty late.

679
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 3: What to trick or treat?

680
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, oh, now we trick or treated up until

681
00:32:11,040 --> 00:32:13,240
Speaker 2: probably the like the ninth orteenth grade.

682
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: Well we'll get to it, but in some places you

683
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 1: get to get arrested for that.

684
00:32:18,240 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 3: When did you stop? You'd still trick or treat if

685
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:21,800
Speaker 3: they would let you.

686
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: I think I stopped around thirteen.

687
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 3: Well, maybe fifteen was too late. Maybe thirteen or fourteen.

688
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: You're fine, nough fifteenth great, go with God.

689
00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:34,719
Speaker 2: No, but you're you're probably right now that I'll look

690
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 2: back at. Maybe I went to Halloween parties, but maybe.

691
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:40,520
Speaker 1: There's a kind of an unofficial slash official again in

692
00:32:40,560 --> 00:32:45,080
Speaker 1: some places cut off after twelve, really done? Yeah, because

693
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,920
Speaker 1: thirteen you're a teenager now, and that's not kids stuff

694
00:32:48,360 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 1: as we'll see it. Allegedly, trick or treating is a

695
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:54,719
Speaker 1: transition from kidhood to adulthood, and by the time you're thirteen,

696
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:57,720
Speaker 1: you've made that transition that's in your past. It's sad,

697
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,120
Speaker 1: but it's I don't know why, I'm like Christopher walk

698
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, but I am. Yeah.

699
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,120
Speaker 2: Maybe I wasn't going that late, but I definitely remember

700
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,840
Speaker 2: going by myself at a certain point. But now with

701
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:15,200
Speaker 2: my neighborhood, it's just that I see mostly parents.

702
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:15,760
Speaker 3: Not involved at all.

703
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,440
Speaker 2: They're there kind of like if your child is two

704
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:21,800
Speaker 2: or three, helping them walk to the door and stuff. Sure,

705
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,840
Speaker 2: but otherwise we're just drinking and the kids are doing

706
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:25,240
Speaker 2: their things.

707
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:28,120
Speaker 1: So let's talk about this. Then let's skip toward the

708
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: end and we'll jump back. Okay, all right, there is

709
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 1: this debate over, you know, whether it's better to just

710
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:40,160
Speaker 1: kind of cross your fingers and hope for the best

711
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:42,000
Speaker 1: and let your kids go out and trick or treat

712
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:47,160
Speaker 1: on their own, whether that's good or whether we need

713
00:33:47,200 --> 00:33:49,960
Speaker 1: to the world's just too unsafe for that, and we

714
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: need to much more manage kids trick or treating than

715
00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: just letting them go out on their own.

716
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 3: Well, it depends on where you are. That's the big divide.

717
00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, And one of my personal heroes, the world's worst

718
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:03,720
Speaker 1: mom Lenori's Kanazi, who came up with the Free Range

719
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:08,200
Speaker 1: Kid's blog and the whole movement. Frankly, she makes this

720
00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:14,759
Speaker 1: really great point that when we let kids trick or treat,

721
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:20,040
Speaker 1: we let them confront danger like on their own, and

722
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 1: it's real, it's just a thin, the narrowest margin of danger.

723
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: I mean, people always talk about like the you know,

724
00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:29,840
Speaker 1: like the worst things that could happen on on Halloween

725
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:31,879
Speaker 1: when a kids out trigger treating, getting hit by a car,

726
00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 1: getting kidnapped by a stranger, getting like, yes, just stuff

727
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:41,160
Speaker 1: that happens, and it can't happen. It's true, but it

728
00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: happens so infrequently that the chances are it's not going

729
00:34:45,640 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: to happen, and you're actually better off just letting the

730
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,799
Speaker 1: kid roll the dice, because, as Lenorise Kanazi puts it,

731
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:55,440
Speaker 1: when when you go trigger treating, you're transitioning from being

732
00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,719
Speaker 1: a kid to a grown up, and you're doing this

733
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,319
Speaker 1: quite literally. You go with your parents first, and they

734
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:03,360
Speaker 1: kind of teach you the rules of the road, like

735
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: just take one piece of candy, or that house over

736
00:35:06,160 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: there has their lights off, so leave them alone. They

737
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,480
Speaker 1: don't want to have anything to do with this and

738
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,239
Speaker 1: then after that you let them go on their own, right,

739
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,319
Speaker 1: and they kind of take the ball and roll with it.

740
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: And she says that that when they're out trick or

741
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: treating kids dressed like grown ups, they take to the streets,

742
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,320
Speaker 1: they encounter the scariest possible locals, which is in goblins,

743
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,279
Speaker 1: and then yes, they're doing the scariest possible time night

744
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:34,200
Speaker 1: and the whole thing is dressed rehearsal for adulthood, and

745
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: that like, that's the benefit of trick or treating.

746
00:35:37,840 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 2: I don't quite get that that is the same as adulthood.

747
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: Like you and I all the time walking around night

748
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:43,960
Speaker 2: fighting goblins and water.

749
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: Right, exactly where would we have been without trick or

750
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: treating to prepare us for fighting goblins?

751
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:49,160
Speaker 4: All right?

752
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,120
Speaker 1: But just confronting fears are on their own, without their

753
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:56,000
Speaker 1: parents managing their world for them so that they can

754
00:35:56,040 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: handle themselves, have the confidence to know they can handle themselves.

755
00:36:00,160 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: And I guess feel good about having confronted their fears

756
00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:07,720
Speaker 1: and gotten candy in return. Let's not forget about that. Yeah, Now,

757
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,240
Speaker 1: on the other hand, it's just just take the candy.

758
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:13,920
Speaker 1: It's fine, right, Mommy and Daddy made it perfect for you.

759
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:15,600
Speaker 1: All you have to do is go get the candy.

760
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,080
Speaker 1: You're in a perfect bubble and everything's fine. Yeah, So

761
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:23,320
Speaker 1: I kind of tend to fall on Lenor's Knazzi's side

762
00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 1: on that.

763
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,760
Speaker 3: Well, should we talk a little bit about the.

764
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,480
Speaker 2: You know, whether or not there have been all these

765
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:32,239
Speaker 2: real horror stories over the years, and whether or not

766
00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,720
Speaker 2: any of those are true. As far as the razor

767
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,760
Speaker 2: blade and the apple and stuff like that, hypodermic needles

768
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:41,640
Speaker 2: and candy, this stuff doesn't happen, No.

769
00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: And the thing to point out, and I know we've

770
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:47,680
Speaker 1: talked about it before, is that it was an urban

771
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: legend that came true.

772
00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:53,040
Speaker 2: Right There was one case, and this is actually kind

773
00:36:53,040 --> 00:36:55,279
Speaker 2: of funny if you asked me. In nineteen fifty nine,

774
00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 2: there was a dentist in California named William Shine who

775
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:04,600
Speaker 2: I took alo laxative pills and disguise them as candy

776
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 2: and give out four hundred and fifty of them jerk

777
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,280
Speaker 2: to kids, and they were all pooping.

778
00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,160
Speaker 1: I guess, so I think a few did poop. Nobody

779
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 1: got injured, though.

780
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,760
Speaker 3: Right now, you're not gonna get injured from a laxative.

781
00:37:15,880 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: You could poop over, poop over poop.

782
00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, but this is when I think this real story

783
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,520
Speaker 2: got out. And then all of a sudden he gets

784
00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:31,560
Speaker 2: morphed into needles and razor blades or poison or candy

785
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:32,640
Speaker 2: laced with heroin and.

786
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,520
Speaker 3: Stuff like that. Well that did happen.

787
00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:37,640
Speaker 2: Well yeah, but that's the thing, Like the examples that

788
00:37:37,680 --> 00:37:40,839
Speaker 2: are listed are reverse engineered almost right.

789
00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:43,359
Speaker 1: Right, So, there was a little boy in Texas who

790
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 1: died from eating a cyanide laced pixie stick right in Texas,

791
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:50,360
Speaker 1: in I can't remember what year.

792
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:51,800
Speaker 3: Of seventy four, and.

793
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:54,840
Speaker 1: It turned out that it was his dad. That his

794
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:57,479
Speaker 1: dad was the scum of the earth who had taken

795
00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,640
Speaker 1: out insurance policies on his own children, good Lord, and

796
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 1: then gave them spiked Halloween candy to make it look

797
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,239
Speaker 1: like some mad poisoner he killed his kids so he

798
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:09,120
Speaker 1: could collect insurance. One of his kids did die, but

799
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,360
Speaker 1: it wasn't just some random Halloween poisoner. That guy didn't

800
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:15,000
Speaker 1: really exist at the time.

801
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, nineteen seventy in Detroit was the heroin incident. This

802
00:38:20,520 --> 00:38:24,600
Speaker 2: kid overdose, These kids ate their uncle stash is what

803
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:29,000
Speaker 2: really happened. And then the uncle's like, oh crap, let

804
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: me sprinkle the heroin on the candy and cook up

805
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,560
Speaker 2: the story and maybe cook up some heroin right since

806
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 2: I'm cooking, Yeah, and to try and get out of this.

807
00:38:38,880 --> 00:38:41,759
Speaker 3: So again, it really happened, but not in the way

808
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 3: that you think.

809
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 1: No. The thing that got everybody so that William Shine guy,

810
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 1: who I just think is a scale for that, because

811
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:53,399
Speaker 1: he scared the pants off of America's parentsh He basically said, hey, hey,

812
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,760
Speaker 1: you know how you're letting your kids run free? Something

813
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,720
Speaker 1: really bad could happened to him, and I just showed

814
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:01,640
Speaker 1: you how. And from that that next year on, the

815
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,520
Speaker 1: parents were anxiously involved in Halloween like they never had

816
00:39:04,520 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 1: been before. Sure because of William Shine. But the thing

817
00:39:09,800 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: that really killed Halloween, or at least cemented I think

818
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,759
Speaker 1: the anxieties in the heads of parents in America is

819
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,440
Speaker 1: that tail and All poisoner. Oh, sure canceled Halloween nineteen

820
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:24,400
Speaker 1: eighty two. Did it really almost drove Ben Cooper Costumes

821
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 1: out of business? Candy sales went down fifty percent.

822
00:39:27,719 --> 00:39:29,760
Speaker 3: Trick or treated in nineteen eighty two, Well.

823
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,960
Speaker 1: Your parents didn't love you. I think I did too.

824
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:35,800
Speaker 1: I don't remember not I would remember not trick or

825
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:36,840
Speaker 1: treating one year.

826
00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, because that would have been eleven. That's prime time, right,

827
00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:41,280
Speaker 2: Apparently those are the retirement years.

828
00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 1: But all of this stuff added a veneer of fear

829
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:49,360
Speaker 1: and anxiety on trick or treating for parents, not for

830
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,839
Speaker 1: kids necessarily, but for parents, and it drew them into

831
00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:58,440
Speaker 1: what was possibly just a kid run activity because of fear,

832
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,160
Speaker 1: probably irrational. Yeah, and now you have to this day,

833
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:06,319
Speaker 1: the FDA sending out guidelines around Halloween saying don't let

834
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: your kids eat any candy until they bring it home,

835
00:40:09,440 --> 00:40:12,760
Speaker 1: which is just torture. Yeah, and you have to inspect

836
00:40:12,760 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: it and if you've see any pinholes or tears or

837
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,400
Speaker 1: anything that looks weird, just throw it away. Some hospitals

838
00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 1: say bring your kids candy and well X ray ye

839
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,400
Speaker 1: to see if there's any razor blades or needles in

840
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,480
Speaker 1: it or something like that. This is the kind of

841
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:29,440
Speaker 1: terror that ironically is overlaid on Halloween. It's like fun

842
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,439
Speaker 1: terror has actual real terror on top of it, which

843
00:40:33,480 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: makes it less fun.

844
00:40:34,880 --> 00:40:38,239
Speaker 3: We don't inspect candy. Oh you don't you roll the dice? Huh?

845
00:40:38,840 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great.

846
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 3: I don't know anyone who does.

847
00:40:42,719 --> 00:40:43,040
Speaker 1: Really.

848
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,480
Speaker 3: Oh, man, I was raised like that. You inspect it candy.

849
00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:48,359
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, my parents were serious about it.

850
00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:52,200
Speaker 3: We never did. I don't know, I just I don't know.

851
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:53,040
Speaker 3: That's great.

852
00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,160
Speaker 2: Maybe it's that thing of like if you're the because

853
00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,200
Speaker 2: it doesn't happen.

854
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: Right, No, I'm hardened to hear that. Yeah, because when

855
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,799
Speaker 1: we did our Free Range Kids episode, I remember thinking, like,

856
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:07,480
Speaker 1: what what's going on now? Like like kids are treated

857
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: like this yor not.

858
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,640
Speaker 3: Being poisoned by Halloween candy. It's just not happening, right,

859
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:13,080
Speaker 3: you know.

860
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:17,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, Plus in our neighborhood, with the sanctioned closure, all

861
00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,520
Speaker 2: the candy is, people aren't buying their own candy. It's

862
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:24,879
Speaker 2: like the neighborhood buys all the candy and they congregated

863
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:26,000
Speaker 2: in these couple of blocks.

864
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 3: Oh that's cool.

865
00:41:26,760 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, I mean there could be a madman living

866
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:32,800
Speaker 2: among us. It happens, but that's like being scared to

867
00:41:32,840 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 2: walk out your front door for fear of being murdered.

868
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,319
Speaker 1: Right right, Chuck, You know you just can't live that way.

869
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 3: You can't live that way. You know.

870
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:43,840
Speaker 1: You told me a story about a village, Like villages

871
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:46,560
Speaker 1: in Japan have like a festival or two every year. Now,

872
00:41:46,680 --> 00:41:48,520
Speaker 1: like the whole community comes out it's like a big deal.

873
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:52,280
Speaker 1: And there was one village, a little tiny town where

874
00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: this one woman, just I guess, went mad and poisoned

875
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,560
Speaker 1: the curry that she brought to the village. Thing, kill

876
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: the bunch of townspeople. It happens, It does happen. But

877
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,480
Speaker 1: you're right, you can't not eat the curry just because

878
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 1: of the small, small chance that some mad person has

879
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:13,400
Speaker 1: poisoned it.

880
00:42:13,719 --> 00:42:13,919
Speaker 3: Yeah.

881
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:16,280
Speaker 2: The way I look at it is, if that's what happens,

882
00:42:16,320 --> 00:42:19,120
Speaker 2: then that's you know, your numbers up, your numbers up

883
00:42:19,120 --> 00:42:23,760
Speaker 2: in your story in the newspaper, right to scare other people.

884
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 1: Sure, you get to be immortalized on stuff.

885
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: You should know it's trick or treat going away, Josh,

886
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:32,480
Speaker 2: I don't know, Chuck, I say, no, Okay, that's good.

887
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that, because again I'm living hashtag

888
00:42:35,480 --> 00:42:36,840
Speaker 1: condo life. I'm out of the action.

889
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's this the last bit of this

890
00:42:39,560 --> 00:42:43,080
Speaker 2: article you sent talked about it going away potentially, But

891
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,880
Speaker 2: I just I don't think that's ever ever going to happen.

892
00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:47,919
Speaker 3: So what are your arguments for it going away?

893
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:52,200
Speaker 1: That it might My arguments or your are my observation,

894
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 1: your observations. One of the big ones is that fear

895
00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: among parents that helicopter parenting has not been good for

896
00:42:59,200 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 1: trick or treating. Ah okay, okay, but think about that's

897
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: a real struggle going on right now overparenting versus underparenting.

898
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:11,360
Speaker 1: Which one's gonna win out right? Okay. Another one is

899
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:14,479
Speaker 1: there's a perception that that trick or treating is dying out,

900
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,760
Speaker 1: which is kind of funny, is there. Yes, because people

901
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:22,359
Speaker 1: are moving back into towns and gentrifying those towns, like

902
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,480
Speaker 1: we talked about in the Historic District episode, and as

903
00:43:26,520 --> 00:43:30,360
Speaker 1: they're doing that. Trigger treating was never huge in the city,

904
00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 1: and so people who were raised in the suburbs and

905
00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,120
Speaker 1: or were used to it or moving into the city

906
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:36,719
Speaker 1: and there's no trigger treating going on anymore. So I

907
00:43:36,719 --> 00:43:39,200
Speaker 1: guess trick or treating is dying because that's what I'm seeing.

908
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 3: I beg to differ with that too.

909
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,720
Speaker 1: Okay, But I mean, you don't live in the city city,

910
00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:46,840
Speaker 1: you live in a neighborhood.

911
00:43:46,960 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, but that's all Atlanta is a bunch of neighborhoods. Okay,

912
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:50,960
Speaker 2: you mean I don't live downtown.

913
00:43:51,040 --> 00:43:52,480
Speaker 1: Maybe these people live in Des Moines.

914
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 3: I don't know. No one lives in downtown Atlanta.

915
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 1: No, it's true, although it has gotten cooler than it

916
00:43:57,400 --> 00:43:58,319
Speaker 1: was like a decade ago.

917
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,720
Speaker 2: Sure, but I beg to differ that trick or treating

918
00:44:01,760 --> 00:44:04,840
Speaker 2: doesn't go on in the cities. I think there are

919
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 2: apartment buildings in New York where people trick or treat,

920
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,160
Speaker 2: like just because it's not the picket fence suburban neighborhood.

921
00:44:11,480 --> 00:44:14,040
Speaker 3: Sure, I think trick or treating goes on everywhere.

922
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 1: But this author my house, Julie Beck, who wrote in

923
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 1: The Atlantic, she put it really well that basically the

924
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:24,000
Speaker 1: suburbs and trick or treating just go hand in hand. Sure,

925
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:26,480
Speaker 1: Like the suburbs are set up for trick or treat. Yeah,

926
00:44:26,520 --> 00:44:29,719
Speaker 1: you've got houses that are close together, super safe, yeap

927
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:32,399
Speaker 1: where people who live there are just well enough off

928
00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,799
Speaker 1: to buy enough candy for the whole neighborhood. Yeah, they

929
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 1: all have kids, They know each other enough that you're

930
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 1: not embarrassed for your kid to go up in trick

931
00:44:40,080 --> 00:44:42,120
Speaker 1: or treat there, and you know that this candy is

932
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:45,000
Speaker 1: not going to be poisoned. In the city, you're much

933
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:49,480
Speaker 1: more isolated from one another, even though you're living on

934
00:44:49,520 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: top of one another.

935
00:44:50,840 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think maybe if we're talking about like

936
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:58,360
Speaker 2: areas where there are poor kids and where poverty is

937
00:44:58,440 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: run rampant, then maybe there's less traditional trick or treating,

938
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:05,319
Speaker 2: but there are programs and parties and things they try

939
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:06,399
Speaker 2: to do for those kids too.

940
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,959
Speaker 1: Okay, so those very things may end up being what

941
00:45:10,200 --> 00:45:13,680
Speaker 1: kills trick or treating, I should say, the purest version

942
00:45:13,680 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: of trick or treating. You can also just make the

943
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 1: case well that's what it's evolving into, and just go

944
00:45:17,719 --> 00:45:18,000
Speaker 1: with it.

945
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,200
Speaker 3: I think it will probably be both.

946
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 2: But you're talking about the big Halloween parties, community parties,

947
00:45:24,880 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 2: trunk or treating, trunk or treating, or what was it

948
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,880
Speaker 2: called Halloween tailgating, Halloween tailgating, trunk or treating. This is

949
00:45:31,920 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 2: the idea that you and we had this at our school.

950
00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:37,440
Speaker 2: We had the Halloween festival, but that did not replace

951
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:38,160
Speaker 2: trick or treating.

952
00:45:38,360 --> 00:45:41,080
Speaker 1: Okay, this replaces trick or treating for a lot of children.

953
00:45:41,160 --> 00:45:41,359
Speaker 3: Yeah.

954
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:43,000
Speaker 2: So you go out and you get in a big

955
00:45:43,040 --> 00:45:46,920
Speaker 2: church parking lot essentially, yep, and you have Bob and

956
00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,120
Speaker 2: Frapples and the dunk tank.

957
00:45:49,600 --> 00:45:52,560
Speaker 1: Oh this is different, and huh, this is a little

958
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:54,480
Speaker 1: different than that well.

959
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:56,959
Speaker 3: I mean I've seen these in person, and.

960
00:45:57,239 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 1: Okay, but that's a Halloween festival you're talking about.

961
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:02,279
Speaker 2: No, No, I'm talking about instead of trick or treating. It's

962
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,360
Speaker 2: a big party where they have candy and they have

963
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:06,880
Speaker 2: activities and games and stuff.

964
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:09,760
Speaker 1: So are you going from car to car getting candy

965
00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 1: like the cars or houses?

966
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,320
Speaker 2: No, not necessarily, but they're giving out candy.

967
00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 1: I mean, you're not talking about a trunk er treating.

968
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:21,759
Speaker 3: It feels very nitpicky to me. No, but it's not.

969
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,239
Speaker 3: And here's why I'm not talking about a Halloween festival though.

970
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:26,399
Speaker 1: Okay, that's fine, that's fine, but you're not talking about

971
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:27,600
Speaker 1: a trunk er treating either.

972
00:46:27,960 --> 00:46:30,759
Speaker 2: You mean you walk five feet to a car and

973
00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,560
Speaker 2: they give you candy, then five feet to another car

974
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,440
Speaker 2: and they say, don't play any games, don't bob for apples,

975
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 2: or don't do anything else.

976
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 3: All you're doing is walking to cars.

977
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:40,400
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that they don't have bobbing for apples,

978
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:44,160
Speaker 1: but the purpose of trunk or treating is to basically

979
00:46:44,239 --> 00:46:46,879
Speaker 1: set up a safe ring of cars where the kids

980
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,759
Speaker 1: are literally penned in. Yeah, the kids who used to

981
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 1: be the ones who were running the show are now

982
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,840
Speaker 1: penned in by the anxious adults cars handing out candy

983
00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 1: rather than going to houses, walking around to church parking

984
00:47:00,120 --> 00:47:03,439
Speaker 1: lot for trunk or treating instead of trick or treating. Yes,

985
00:47:03,960 --> 00:47:05,360
Speaker 1: these are not the kids who could pull that.

986
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,080
Speaker 3: I'm not going to replace trick or treat what the.

987
00:47:07,120 --> 00:47:10,120
Speaker 1: Kids in the goonies were able to pull off because

988
00:47:10,120 --> 00:47:12,640
Speaker 1: they had freedom and spark. That kids who trunk or

989
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:16,120
Speaker 1: treat are being denied right as let me go back

990
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,040
Speaker 1: to my friend Lenor Skanazi. She says, the trunk or

991
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:23,160
Speaker 1: treating is just another adult light activity, one that reinforces

992
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:26,800
Speaker 1: the community killing idea that kids aren't ever safe outside

993
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:30,040
Speaker 1: the home, school or supervised program. And that is most

994
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:33,840
Speaker 1: definitely the message that kids get when they're trunk or treating.

995
00:47:34,040 --> 00:47:36,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that is not going to kill trick

996
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:40,200
Speaker 2: or treating or take over trick or treating.

997
00:47:40,560 --> 00:47:41,400
Speaker 1: We'll see, Chuck.

998
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 2: I hope you're right, because one thing I have not

999
00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:48,320
Speaker 2: seen since I've lived in Atlanta is any big trunk

1000
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,920
Speaker 2: or treating activities.

1001
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:52,960
Speaker 1: Well, that's because you live in Atlanta. All you have

1002
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: to do is go out to the suburbs and they're everywhere.

1003
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 3: But the suburbs are made for trick or treating. They're

1004
00:47:57,480 --> 00:47:58,319
Speaker 3: out in the neighborhoods.

1005
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:00,280
Speaker 1: I got to end on a quote I ran across

1006
00:48:00,320 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: a website, I guess a church website that's talking about

1007
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:10,040
Speaker 1: trunk or treating. It's awesome this quote. It says that

1008
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,360
Speaker 1: the scariest part about the night this is a trunk

1009
00:48:13,400 --> 00:48:17,200
Speaker 1: or treating night, isn't the costumes. It's the possibility that

1010
00:48:17,239 --> 00:48:19,320
Speaker 1: you could miss out on the chance to use trunk

1011
00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,200
Speaker 1: or treat to build relationships and reach these kids with

1012
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:25,520
Speaker 1: the gospel. Well, yeah, that's the opposite of what Halloween

1013
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:26,120
Speaker 1: is all about.

1014
00:48:26,280 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 4: That's right.

1015
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 1: Have you got anything else? It's about arson, right, eight

1016
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,960
Speaker 1: and ten cases of it. Sorry, I'm one of those

1017
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:38,560
Speaker 1: curmudgeons that it turns out one more thing. Yes, if

1018
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: you like Halloween, go on to our old Stuff you

1019
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:45,799
Speaker 1: should know website and search Halloween and Creepy and you're

1020
00:48:45,800 --> 00:48:48,400
Speaker 1: gonna find some amazing slideshows we put together over the

1021
00:48:48,480 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: years that I remember that. One of my favorite is

1022
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:55,719
Speaker 1: cute and creuddy Halloween costumes, vintage Halloween costumes that are

1023
00:48:55,719 --> 00:48:59,600
Speaker 1: really creepy, best Jack lanterns, all sorts of great stuff.

1024
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,480
Speaker 3: Remember those days where we count page views and get

1025
00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 3: excited about that.

1026
00:49:02,440 --> 00:49:06,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, this one felt like a bit of a tirade.

1027
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 3: Yeah was it? I don't think so.

1028
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 1: Okay, Kim, Well, if you want to know more about Halloween,

1029
00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,719
Speaker 1: get out of there and trigger treat. And since I

1030
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:20,640
Speaker 1: said that as time for listener may.

1031
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:22,000
Speaker 2: This is follow up on paraphilias that we wanted to

1032
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 2: read for the last few weeks. Just now get into it.

1033
00:49:24,840 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: Hey guys, longtime listener, first time writer. I've had this

1034
00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:30,640
Speaker 2: episode pop up a few times. It's just been on

1035
00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:35,279
Speaker 2: my mind. I'm in our N with MSN and background

1036
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,800
Speaker 2: and have background in neurophysiology who enjoys studying abnormal psych

1037
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,399
Speaker 2: I understand you were doing a show on psychological term

1038
00:49:42,480 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 2: on a psychological term, but you may have ended up

1039
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:50,080
Speaker 2: painting wrong ideas onto certain practices, specifically S and M

1040
00:49:50,120 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 2: and cross dressing. From when I've come to know, it's

1041
00:49:52,560 --> 00:49:56,600
Speaker 2: extremely rare that people practice these primarily for sexual gratification.

1042
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 2: Of course, these practices are adult in nature. Most regard

1043
00:50:00,560 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 2: it as an emotional practice or exploration of self. For example,

1044
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,880
Speaker 2: shibari or rope bondage takes hundreds of hours of practice

1045
00:50:09,920 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 2: to perform and those that partake describe a meditation like

1046
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,400
Speaker 2: state as a result, though most would say it's sn M.

1047
00:50:17,000 --> 00:50:20,120
Speaker 2: Most cross stressors describe the long process of becoming female

1048
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 2: as cathartic and self affirming, although be it temporary. Simplifying

1049
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:28,280
Speaker 2: cross stressors to those who walk around on high heels

1050
00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 2: to reach completion, well imagine saying that about a trans woman.

1051
00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 2: Of course, if you were doing these practices for sexual gratification,

1052
00:50:36,400 --> 00:50:39,399
Speaker 2: all the power to you. I suggest you look into

1053
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,200
Speaker 2: kink culture as an episode. It's where a wide range

1054
00:50:42,239 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 2: of people congregate and share their interest in a community

1055
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 2: that is founded off respect and consent their meetups and

1056
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:51,440
Speaker 2: presentations on practices so that others can learn proper technique.

1057
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:54,200
Speaker 2: The most that practice would like to keep their privacy,

1058
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,520
Speaker 2: and that is from Anonymous.

1059
00:50:56,840 --> 00:51:01,040
Speaker 1: Takes a lot, Anonymous. That was a good correction emails right. Yeah.

1060
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 1: If you want to get in touch with us like

1061
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,919
Speaker 1: Anonymous did to set us straight, we love that kind

1062
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: of thing. You can join us at stuff youshould Know

1063
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,360
Speaker 1: dot com and check out our social links there, and

1064
00:51:10,520 --> 00:51:13,600
Speaker 1: you can send us an email to Stuff podcast at

1065
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio dot com.

1066
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:21,400
Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For

1067
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:25,680
Speaker 3: more podcasts My heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,

1068
00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:27,640
Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.