1 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:10,160 Speaker 1: Diversion audio. 2 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:17,040 Speaker 2: A note this episode contains mature content and descriptions of 3 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,439 Speaker 2: violence that may be disturbing for some listeners. Please take 4 00:00:21,480 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: care and listening. This is episode two of a two 5 00:00:35,520 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 2: part mini series. If you haven't listened to episode one 6 00:00:39,720 --> 00:00:44,199 Speaker 2: of The Catfish Killer, I recommend you press pause, go 7 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 2: listen to episode one, and then come back here because 8 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 2: episode one is important. But this episode is where the 9 00:00:53,600 --> 00:01:01,560 Speaker 2: story becomes totally wild. Imagine you get into work one 10 00:01:01,640 --> 00:01:08,600 Speaker 2: day and your assignment is three giant garbage bags full 11 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:14,000 Speaker 2: of shredded paper. You're supposed to put all those sheets 12 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 2: of paper back together, one tiny strip at a time, 13 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: with just a few little letters to go on. And 14 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: since the actual contents of those documents is near gibberish 15 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: half the time, your job is twenty times harder. Actually, 16 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 2: to me, it sounds almost impossible, But that's the job 17 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:46,040 Speaker 2: assigned to Special Agent Miranda Gaddis at the Tennessee Bureau 18 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: of Investigations. She spent a month matching letter after letter, 19 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 2: taping strips of paper together, one sheet at a time, 20 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:00,960 Speaker 2: but she did it, and she provided in investigators in 21 00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: Mountain City, Tennessee, with exactly the evidence they needed to 22 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:12,519 Speaker 2: take not one, not two, not three, but four murderers 23 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: to court. Welcome to the greatest true crime stories ever told. 24 00:02:35,760 --> 00:02:39,360 Speaker 2: I'm Mary Kay McBrayer. I'm a writer of true crime. 25 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:44,519 Speaker 2: In my work, I'm constantly reading about crime, but I'm 26 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,760 Speaker 2: not necessarily interested in the headline grabbing stuff like the 27 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,080 Speaker 2: blood and the gore. I'm more interested in the people 28 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,799 Speaker 2: behind these stories and what we can learn about society 29 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 2: by looking at their experiences. You can meet me here 30 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 2: every week when I dig into crimes where a woman 31 00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 2: is not just a victim. She might be the detective, 32 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 2: the lawyer, the witness, the coroner, criminal, or some combination 33 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:21,600 Speaker 2: of those. As you probably already know, women can do anything. 34 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:28,000 Speaker 2: Today's episode is the conclusion of our two part mini series, 35 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:34,800 Speaker 2: The Catfish Killer. Nothing in this story is simple or straightforward. 36 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 2: That much was clear last week when we heard about 37 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,920 Speaker 2: the baffling online feud plaguing Mountain City, Tennessee, and the 38 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:48,800 Speaker 2: devastating double murder of Billy Jean Hayworth and Bill Payne. 39 00:03:49,280 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 2: But that was just the beginning of this story, because 40 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: now we get into the twisted and bizarre under belly 41 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:05,480 Speaker 2: of the crime. Saga of Lies manipulation, secret identities, and 42 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:10,920 Speaker 2: secret agencies that I, for one, could never have imagined. 43 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 2: At the beginning of last week's episode, the first part 44 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 2: of this story, I talked about how the Internet has 45 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:44,240 Speaker 2: complicated our communication. I want to mention this quickly here 46 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 2: again at the top of part two, because it's fundamental 47 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: to our story. Technology makes communication both easier and harder, 48 00:04:56,320 --> 00:05:01,279 Speaker 2: but communication in a small circle implicates it even more. 49 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 2: I think that's partly because there's no one to check against, 50 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 2: there's no control group, there's no touchstone for normalcy. So 51 00:05:11,839 --> 00:05:14,159 Speaker 2: if you're about to fly off the rails, you can't 52 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 2: look back and see that no one else is going 53 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: there with you. Plus, if you get the right group together, 54 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:25,000 Speaker 2: or rather the wrong group, they can feed into each 55 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 2: other's bullshit and build it up into something it's not, 56 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 2: and it takes almost no time at all, you know, 57 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 2: like on a reality show, one of those shows where 58 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,039 Speaker 2: they get a bunch of strong personalities together and before 59 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 2: the end of the first week, two of them are 60 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:46,160 Speaker 2: fistfighting over one eating the other's peanut butter. Just keep 61 00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 2: that in mind as we return to our story. Last 62 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:03,240 Speaker 2: time we were in Mountains City, Tennessee. It was February sixth, 63 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 2: twenty twelve, and a man named Jamie Kurd had just 64 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 2: confessed to assisting in the brutal murders of young mother 65 00:06:11,839 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 2: Billy Jean Hayworth and her boyfriend Bill Payne, who also 66 00:06:16,279 --> 00:06:21,839 Speaker 2: happened to be Jamie's cousin. But police didn't see Jamie 67 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: as the real catch. He confessed to committing this double 68 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:32,000 Speaker 2: homicide with Buddy Potter, the father of his secret girlfriend, 69 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:37,960 Speaker 2: Janelle Potter. Jamie said he and Buddy killed Billy, Jean 70 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:42,560 Speaker 2: and Bill to protect Janelle, who you'll remember from the 71 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 2: first part of this story, was in the midst of 72 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: a vicious feud with the young couple, but Jamie insisted 73 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 2: Buddy was the one with the plan. Buddy was the 74 00:06:55,440 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 2: one shooting the bullets and looking at quiet nervous Jamie. 75 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 2: Police believed that, so investigators tried to set up a 76 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 2: little sting. The police had Jamie call Buddy and ask 77 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 2: him did you get rid of all the stuff from Bills, 78 00:07:18,880 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 2: and Buddy replied, uh huh, and that was enough for 79 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,560 Speaker 2: them to arrest Buddy in the early hours of February seventh, 80 00:07:29,720 --> 00:07:33,640 Speaker 2: twenty twelve. They hauled him down to the station and 81 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 2: started their questioning. Buddy repeated what the Potter family had 82 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 2: said to police already as a reminder. That's Buddy, his wife, Barbara, 83 00:07:45,720 --> 00:07:52,480 Speaker 2: and Janelle. He reiterated his family did have issues with 84 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:57,360 Speaker 2: the murdered couple, but they didn't know anything about their deaths. 85 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: The police took out a tape and played it for him. Hello, oh, high. 86 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:09,600 Speaker 3: And nightie around. 87 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:11,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, you have a life pactor. 88 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you got rid of every signy. Okay, I'm 89 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 3: making go up there. 90 00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 2: The police had recorded Jamie's call to Buddy Potter. That's 91 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 2: a real snippet of the tape. It's from a TV 92 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 2: docu drama called Too Pretty to Live, based on a 93 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:41,599 Speaker 2: book by Dennis Brooks of the same name. You just 94 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 2: heard Bill admitting to getting rid of the stuff from Bill's. 95 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,439 Speaker 2: When Buddy heard that tape in the interrogation room, his 96 00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:01,680 Speaker 2: face went white. He lost his cocky confidence. For several minutes, 97 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,680 Speaker 2: he sat there looking stunned. He muttered that he must 98 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:13,920 Speaker 2: have misheard what Jamie said. Police exchanged glances. He might 99 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 2: not be cracking yet, but this was good. They would 100 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 2: get there. It took time, It took prodding and a 101 00:09:26,000 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 2: lot of different angles, it took more than it had 102 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 2: taken with Jamie. But when the detective suggested the only 103 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 2: reason you did it was because you were scared for 104 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:43,480 Speaker 2: your family and you love your family, Buddy said yes. 105 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 2: And then he said more. 106 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 3: When you hear people for lt to catch your daughter 107 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,959 Speaker 3: murder her, they wanted to rape her because she's a 108 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:03,360 Speaker 3: bird in Yeah, you gotta know what the chefs would you. 109 00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,760 Speaker 2: Again, that's a real clip from the station that day. 110 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 2: Again from Too Pretty to Live, Buddy says one more 111 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 2: important thing. After that, he says, the victims head quote 112 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:24,559 Speaker 2: put a three thousand dollars bounty on Janelle's head, on 113 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 2: my wife and me, all of that. That is why 114 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 2: he did it. So let's take a beat here. What 115 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 2: is happening. I mean, police were looking for a confession 116 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 2: that Buddy committed the murders, and they were getting that, 117 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 2: so that's great. But Buddy was saying that he did 118 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 2: it because Billy Jean Hayworth and Bill Payne wanted to 119 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:03,240 Speaker 2: rape and murder Janelle and had put a bounty on 120 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:10,839 Speaker 2: his whole family. That just doesn't add up. Billy, Jean 121 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,719 Speaker 2: and Bill might have had their differences with Janelle and 122 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 2: the Potters, but they were new parents and all around 123 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: nice people, well liked in their community, with no one 124 00:11:21,880 --> 00:11:26,080 Speaker 2: else in Mountain City ever reporting any kinds of problems 125 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:31,920 Speaker 2: with them, and even Janelle's vocal public complaints about harassment 126 00:11:31,960 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 2: from the couple and their friends hadn't included anything this 127 00:11:36,880 --> 00:11:42,439 Speaker 2: frankly terrifying. Maybe what sticks out most to me, though, 128 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:46,400 Speaker 2: is how would Billy, Jean and Bill have access to 129 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:52,840 Speaker 2: hit men? So police were also baffled, but they couldn't 130 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 2: show that to Buddy. They had to keep pushing for 131 00:11:56,920 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 2: more information here, so they asked him to call his 132 00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:05,439 Speaker 2: wife and daughter and confess his crime to them. They 133 00:12:05,520 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 2: said he should tell them directly. He should tell them 134 00:12:09,320 --> 00:12:10,319 Speaker 2: about what he did. 135 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:17,440 Speaker 3: Barbara, Yeah, before you find out somebody else to hold 136 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 3: you know I was involved in I understand that I 137 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:26,520 Speaker 3: didn't want you took a differing. 138 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,200 Speaker 2: No more, and didn't you think about it more? 139 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 1: Said my hear sigh. 140 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 2: Once again, that's taped from the real call from the 141 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:43,440 Speaker 2: Too Pretty to Live movie, and it's an odd phone call. 142 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:48,839 Speaker 2: Janelle hops on the line too, but neither she nor 143 00:12:49,000 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 2: Barbara really sounded shocked or upset. Instead, they offered Buddy alibis. 144 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:01,719 Speaker 2: They both insisted it's not possible that he did it. 145 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 2: He was home with them. Maybe that's what Buddy needed 146 00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 2: to hear in order to shut up, because when he 147 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,000 Speaker 2: got off the phone, he asked for a lawyer. The 148 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 2: interrogation was officially over. Still, it was a valuable call 149 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 2: for the cops because after hearing Barbara and Janelle's reactions 150 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,400 Speaker 2: for the first time, the investigators were starting to wonder 151 00:13:32,559 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 2: if they were involved too. I mean, think about it, 152 00:13:39,360 --> 00:13:42,160 Speaker 2: Maybe you would provide an alibi to a loved one 153 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:45,480 Speaker 2: that had committed a horrible crime. I don't know, it's 154 00:13:45,520 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 2: a human response, I guess, to save someone you love. 155 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 2: It's hard to imagine what I do in a situation 156 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 2: like this, but if I had to guess, yeah, I'd 157 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 2: be pretty shocked that anyone I loved would do something 158 00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 2: like that. And I can also see myself potentially thinking, well, 159 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 2: what was their reason and being open to hearing them out. 160 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 2: I'm not just anyone. I'm talking about like a core 161 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 2: four loved ones tops who I'd give the benefit of 162 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 2: the doubt. But I definitely can't see myself having no 163 00:14:17,679 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 2: reaction if you had no idea about the crime. And 164 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 2: we're hearing it for the first time, wouldn't you express 165 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,360 Speaker 2: shock and horror at what was happening first before you 166 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:38,800 Speaker 2: started throwing out alibis. Barbara and Janelle didn't, which made 167 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:44,120 Speaker 2: police think that they already knew they might have two 168 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 2: culprits in custody, Jamie Kurd and Buddy Potter, but maybe 169 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:55,040 Speaker 2: they should be looking for more. So the police searched 170 00:14:55,080 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: the Potter home and Buddy's truck. The Potter home and 171 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:05,240 Speaker 2: Officer Woodward was sitting in the living room logging evidence 172 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:09,600 Speaker 2: descriptions into a notebook as other officers brought him item 173 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:16,680 Speaker 2: after item, notebooks stacks of paper. Sitting across from him 174 00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 2: was Barbara Potter, and then she was standing next to him, 175 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:26,640 Speaker 2: reaching down to the stack of papers at his left 176 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:32,760 Speaker 2: and ripping them up. Woodward looked up at her, incredulous 177 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 2: and asked slowly, what have you got there? Barbara didn't 178 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: say anything, She just handed back the stack. Some of 179 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:50,360 Speaker 2: the papers were torn now, but Woodward could see clearly 180 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 2: what they were. Photographs printed out on a home computer 181 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 2: of Billy Jean Hayward and her friends like Lindsay Thomas 182 00:16:02,960 --> 00:16:08,600 Speaker 2: in bikinis and sexy Halloween costumes, very normal, cute photos, 183 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,480 Speaker 2: the kind anyone would have posted on Facebook, but scrawled 184 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:20,320 Speaker 2: underneath them were captions like Billy whore and Panface. Pan 185 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 2: Face was the same name the so called Matt Potter 186 00:16:24,480 --> 00:16:29,920 Speaker 2: had used in his horrible angry Topics posts, the ones 187 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,080 Speaker 2: that started the whole feud between the Potters, Billy Jean 188 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 2: and her friends. So another link between the Potter family 189 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 2: and these posts. Another link showing just how much the 190 00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:51,120 Speaker 2: Potter family hated Billy Jean, like who does that? Printing 191 00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 2: out photos of girls from Facebook and writing cruel names 192 00:16:54,840 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 2: underneath It was the behavior of an angry child, But 193 00:17:00,920 --> 00:17:05,640 Speaker 2: there were no children in this house, only thirty year 194 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:18,680 Speaker 2: old Janelle in her middle aged parents. Back at Buddy's truck, 195 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:24,960 Speaker 2: police made an even bigger discovery. There were the bullets. 196 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 2: They were the same kind of bullets used in the murders, 197 00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:38,159 Speaker 2: but they also matched in a more specific way. They 198 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:42,760 Speaker 2: had little markings on top, almost like someone was doodling 199 00:17:42,840 --> 00:17:49,080 Speaker 2: on them with a carving knife that matched the bullets 200 00:17:49,200 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 2: used in the murder too, So bingo more evidence that 201 00:17:55,560 --> 00:18:00,040 Speaker 2: Buddy did shoot the gun. But that's not even the 202 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: biggest piece of evidence. They found in his truck and literally, 203 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 2: I mean physically huge. In the back of the truck 204 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:14,560 Speaker 2: there were three garbage bags full of shredded paper like 205 00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 2: ready to burst open. Police immediately asked an agent at 206 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:24,720 Speaker 2: the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation to put these documents back together. 207 00:18:25,960 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 2: Special Agent Miranda gaddis the woman the saint, the one 208 00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 2: I mentioned back near the beginning of this episode. This 209 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 2: is the fun part of looking back in time because 210 00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:43,159 Speaker 2: we get to skip over the grueling, weeks long puzzle 211 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 2: work Miranda had to do to get her results, and 212 00:18:47,560 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 2: the results she got were very strange. The papers turned 213 00:18:53,280 --> 00:19:01,840 Speaker 2: out to be printouts of emails emails between Barbara Potter 214 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 2: and someone signing off as Chris. Chris, remember Chris from 215 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 2: the last episode, who may or may not be associated 216 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:23,160 Speaker 2: with the CIA, the one Jamie Kurr mentioned in his interrogation. 217 00:19:25,119 --> 00:19:29,440 Speaker 2: These printouts, as well as the digital files police obtained 218 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: from both the Potter family and Jamie Kirr's email accounts, 219 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 2: suddenly revealed a lot more about who Chris was, about 220 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:46,920 Speaker 2: his association with the CIA, and about what exactly he 221 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,120 Speaker 2: had to do with the double murder of Billy Jean Hayworth. 222 00:19:51,359 --> 00:20:17,159 Speaker 2: And Bill Payne. I want to go on a bit 223 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:20,919 Speaker 2: of a journey with you. Here into the massive archive 224 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:28,400 Speaker 2: of emails from Chris. In addition to those printouts, police 225 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:31,879 Speaker 2: also get warrants for digital files and end up with 226 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:38,560 Speaker 2: more emails, Facebook messages between Chris and Barbara, and texts 227 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:44,960 Speaker 2: between Chris and Jamie. No messages between Janelle and Chris, 228 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:53,399 Speaker 2: though Buddy didn't use email or any other digital communication, 229 00:20:54,440 --> 00:21:00,840 Speaker 2: so no messages between him and Chris either, But mentions 230 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 2: in the messages between Barbara and Chris, plus all those 231 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:10,520 Speaker 2: shredded print outs and Buddy's car show that Barbara passed 232 00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:13,800 Speaker 2: the messages on to her husband. He was up to 233 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 2: date on the conversations. And let me tell you, they 234 00:21:18,119 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 2: are a trip. They span about a year, starting in 235 00:21:24,080 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 2: late twenty ten, right around the time that Billy Jean 236 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,080 Speaker 2: Hayworth got pregnant and moved in with Bill Payne, and 237 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,920 Speaker 2: they continue right up until the time of Bill and 238 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:43,879 Speaker 2: Billy Jean's murders. Chris introduces himself as a CIA operative 239 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,360 Speaker 2: from the same area of Pennsylvania the Potters moved from. 240 00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 2: He was actually born in the same hospital on the 241 00:21:53,600 --> 00:22:00,800 Speaker 2: same day as Janelle and attended school with her. But 242 00:22:00,960 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 2: in twenty ten, Chris is getting in touch with the 243 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:09,240 Speaker 2: Potters in a professional capacity because he has been following 244 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:13,639 Speaker 2: events in Mountain City and sees that Janelle is in 245 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:18,320 Speaker 2: danger from people like Billy Jean Hayworth, Bill Payne, and 246 00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 2: Lindsay Thomas. These people are scary and dangerous. They are 247 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,200 Speaker 2: tied up in serious drug dealing, and they hate Janelle. 248 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 2: In fact, they have violent intentions towards her. He knows 249 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,880 Speaker 2: what they say about her behind closed doors. They want 250 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:50,560 Speaker 2: to rape her, they want to murder her. Eventually, Chris 251 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,879 Speaker 2: tells them that Mountain Cities local drug dealing gangsters have 252 00:22:55,040 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 2: put a bounty on the heads of all the Potters. 253 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 2: But Chris knows that Janelle is a sweet, good person. 254 00:23:05,880 --> 00:23:10,000 Speaker 2: These people are after her because of that, and because 255 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 2: she is so pretty prettier than them. Chris is here 256 00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 2: to protect her. That's why he keeps the Potters and 257 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:26,200 Speaker 2: Jamie updated on what's happening at the pain residence. That's 258 00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:31,960 Speaker 2: why he writes posts as Matt Potter on Topics defending Janelle. 259 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 2: That's why he wants to kill all Janelle's enemies before 260 00:23:38,760 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 2: they kill her. No wonder the Potters were so scared. 261 00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:52,159 Speaker 2: Chris also tells both Jamie and Barbara that Jamie is 262 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 2: a victim of the gang's hatred as well. He's in 263 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:00,480 Speaker 2: it too. That seems to be why in the spring 264 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:05,920 Speaker 2: of twenty eleven, when Jamie's mom died, the Potter parents 265 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: decided to reach out to him, and they invited him 266 00:24:10,119 --> 00:24:15,159 Speaker 2: into their home as a family friend. Although Janelle and 267 00:24:15,280 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 2: Jamie still keep their romantic relationship a secret, now they 268 00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 2: can see each other much more frequently. So that's the 269 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:33,320 Speaker 2: content of these messages. Pretty terrifying stuff. But I need 270 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,600 Speaker 2: to read some of them aloud for you guys. I'm 271 00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:39,920 Speaker 2: not going to preface it before I read this time. 272 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:45,040 Speaker 2: But remember Chris says that he's the one writing the 273 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:49,320 Speaker 2: Matt Potter posts, and if you remember those from the 274 00:24:49,400 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 2: last episode, well this should sound familiar. May twenty eleven, 275 00:25:04,080 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 2: Lindsey will back off fast and stop things. But that's 276 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 2: if I let her live. I choose that for her 277 00:25:12,840 --> 00:25:17,560 Speaker 2: boyfriend and Bill and Billy and that damn baby, I 278 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:21,160 Speaker 2: will see when I want to kill them. Then I'm 279 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,600 Speaker 2: getting some of the cops. No one would ever miss them. 280 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,639 Speaker 2: I'm going up to Bulldog Road now and I'm also 281 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:32,440 Speaker 2: going to run into horrorpans slept face ugly as a 282 00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:37,639 Speaker 2: mudface bitch and her fucker of a BF. I'm getting 283 00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 2: on where they are going and what they do, and 284 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,920 Speaker 2: getting a lot of sense about what they do daily. 285 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 2: So I have been on them. They are calling from bills, 286 00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 2: go to a payphone and say something. They are playing games, 287 00:25:54,560 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 2: so me, Chris, government agent, give by the FEDS with 288 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:05,640 Speaker 2: guns and as he tells Barbara and Jamie, licensed to kill. 289 00:26:07,359 --> 00:26:12,000 Speaker 2: And yet his grammar is terrible, he can't spell. He 290 00:26:12,119 --> 00:26:16,000 Speaker 2: sounds less like a government employee and more like, I 291 00:26:16,119 --> 00:26:20,680 Speaker 2: honestly don't know, like maybe a very angry teenager. But 292 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:28,240 Speaker 2: somehow Jamie and Barbara seem to buy into this. And 293 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 2: this gets back to that initial sort of paranoia and 294 00:26:33,359 --> 00:26:35,880 Speaker 2: suspicion that was a part of Barbara all the time, 295 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:40,960 Speaker 2: that expectation that people were out to get her and 296 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 2: her family, and that disliking someone translated into wanting to 297 00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:51,879 Speaker 2: harm them. Jamie, meanwhile, I wonder if maybe he was 298 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,760 Speaker 2: so desperate to get closer to Janelle, and Chris kind 299 00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 2: of brought them closer, not just by getting Barbara to 300 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:03,160 Speaker 2: warm up to him him, but also by giving them 301 00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:08,800 Speaker 2: this common enemy and something to talk about. Janelle talked 302 00:27:08,800 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 2: to Jamie about Chris a lot. He was like a 303 00:27:12,200 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 2: brother to her, she told him. Meanwhile, investigators honed in 304 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 2: on some other factors here. First, this so called CIA 305 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 2: agent was so interested in Janelle. In fact, she seemed 306 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 2: like his main interest. He was constantly tracking her enemies 307 00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:43,040 Speaker 2: and he couldn't stop praising her. Second, while Janelle's language 308 00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 2: was a lot less violent, she never cursed. Even Chris's 309 00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:53,880 Speaker 2: writing style, including consistent spelling quirks, matched hers very closely. 310 00:27:54,840 --> 00:28:01,960 Speaker 2: A linguist forensics expert confirmed this. Third, all Chris's emails 311 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,760 Speaker 2: came from the Potter family IP address, and they all 312 00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:13,560 Speaker 2: came from Janelle's accounts. Let me repeat that every single 313 00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,600 Speaker 2: message Chris sends, whether it was an email, a text, 314 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,920 Speaker 2: or a Facebook message, came from Janelle's accounts or phone number. 315 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,960 Speaker 2: The explanation for this was that Chris was hacking into 316 00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,720 Speaker 2: Janelle's accounts to communicate, because of course, as a CIA agent, 317 00:28:35,040 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 2: you could do things like that, and in fact had 318 00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,520 Speaker 2: to do things like that to keep a low profile. 319 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,520 Speaker 2: This explanation is so absurd that it would be funny 320 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:51,040 Speaker 2: if two people hadn't been murdered. And then there's the 321 00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:54,880 Speaker 2: fact that, as twenty eleven wears on and Jamie and 322 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:58,080 Speaker 2: the Potter parents get more paranoid about the gang that 323 00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:01,600 Speaker 2: was out to kill them, Chris keeps upping the ante 324 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:07,240 Speaker 2: and stoking their fear, but he never actually materializes to 325 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:13,000 Speaker 2: quote unquote get rid of their enemies. No one has 326 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 2: ever actually seen Chris in real life. 327 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:17,480 Speaker 3: Ever. 328 00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:23,960 Speaker 2: None of this seems to raise Barbara, Jamie, or Buddy's suspicions, 329 00:29:24,800 --> 00:29:27,800 Speaker 2: but it does prompt Barbara to start pushing for something. 330 00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:33,240 Speaker 2: She wants Chris to get Buddy a CIA badge so 331 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 2: he has license to kill like Chris apparently has. She 332 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:41,840 Speaker 2: sends messages like this one and another heads up. She 333 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 2: has her own unhinged writing style quote, Bud is so 334 00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:53,360 Speaker 2: mad and I'm one hundred percent behind whatever happens. You 335 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 2: guys meet when you are ready, Chris. Maybe Bud will 336 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,600 Speaker 2: have ID by then and can use CIA go et 337 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 2: cetera for his protection. Get the jobs done. You know, 338 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 2: they all need to go, and the ones left need 339 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:11,640 Speaker 2: to be given a big scare as they watch and 340 00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:19,400 Speaker 2: wonder am I next? In late November twenty eleven, Barbara 341 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:25,920 Speaker 2: also sends this message to Jamie. By the way, if 342 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,920 Speaker 2: you talk slash text with Chris, ask him if he 343 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:33,280 Speaker 2: thinks the CIA will back up Buddy if he takes 344 00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 2: it into his own hands. He is worried he will 345 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:41,520 Speaker 2: get locked up for doing nothing or you know what 346 00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:46,560 Speaker 2: a worry. They are trying to kill Janelle little by little. 347 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,240 Speaker 2: It seems that they are going to keep going after 348 00:30:50,440 --> 00:30:54,600 Speaker 2: all of us until we're dead slash gone not right, 349 00:30:55,360 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 2: and the cops are behind them per Chris. By the 350 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:06,360 Speaker 2: end of twenty eleven, Barbara and Buddy no longer expect 351 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 2: Chris to kill their enemies for them. 352 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 3: That much. 353 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 2: They've come to terms with, so they are ready to 354 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,080 Speaker 2: take things into their own hands and kill Bill Payne 355 00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:23,160 Speaker 2: and Billy Jean Hayworth themselves, hopefully with the approval of 356 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:29,520 Speaker 2: the CIA, all because of the hatred Chris had been 357 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 2: spewing at them for the past year. Now, I should 358 00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 2: point out, in case you had any doubts, there's no 359 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:42,520 Speaker 2: evidence that anything Chris said was true regarding gangs, bounties, 360 00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 2: or violent plans to hurt the Potter family. In fact, 361 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:49,360 Speaker 2: there's evidence that a lot of the things Chris was 362 00:31:49,400 --> 00:31:55,440 Speaker 2: saying were untrue. He created this terrifying danger out of nothing. 363 00:31:56,480 --> 00:32:02,800 Speaker 2: He created the hatred and effect caused the murders for 364 00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:10,920 Speaker 2: no reason. Barbara contributed by spreading the hate, by believing 365 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,280 Speaker 2: in it without a second thought, and by helping plan 366 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 2: the murder. Buddy and Jamie actually committed the crime, but 367 00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:25,560 Speaker 2: none of it would have happened without Chris, his lies 368 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,000 Speaker 2: and the hatred He had planned it in the fertile 369 00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:33,440 Speaker 2: soil of the Potter Home. Investigators and eventually Dennis Brooks, 370 00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 2: the Tennessee prosecutor tasked with litigating the case, were convinced 371 00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,240 Speaker 2: of that, and after looking at the mountains of evidence, 372 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:46,000 Speaker 2: they were convinced that they knew exactly who Chris really was. 373 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: Chris gave Barbara and Jamie his full name a few times. 374 00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:13,200 Speaker 2: Chris Jaden spelled with a T that's tjad n. He 375 00:33:13,320 --> 00:33:16,200 Speaker 2: also attached photos of himself to some of his messages, 376 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 2: lots in law enforcement uniforms, wanted a Phillies game. Always 377 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 2: a handsome young man, Investigators were startled to find that 378 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:33,480 Speaker 2: he was, in fact a real person, had actually gone 379 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 2: to school with Janelle back in Pennsylvania. Now he lived 380 00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:43,440 Speaker 2: in Delaware, where he did work in law enforcement. Are 381 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:46,840 Speaker 2: you as confounded as I was when I heard this information? 382 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 2: Then the police contacted him, Chris sounded genuinely surprised to 383 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 2: get the call, really shocked at questions about Mountain City, Tennessee, 384 00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:05,200 Speaker 2: the CIA, and Janelle. He didn't know anything about Mountain City, 385 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:12,120 Speaker 2: much less anyone who lived there. He worked in law enforcement, yes, 386 00:34:12,360 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 2: but as a constable at a local hospital, not for 387 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 2: Central Intelligence. He did remember Janelle, although he didn't really 388 00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,319 Speaker 2: know her. They'd gone to high school together. She had 389 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 2: acted like she had a crush on him, and he 390 00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:30,879 Speaker 2: had tried to be nice to her, but he never 391 00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 2: gave it much thought. He was handsome and popular, she 392 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:43,080 Speaker 2: was a little odd. After graduation, he never thought about 393 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 2: her ever again, not once until now. Obviously. Those photos 394 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,360 Speaker 2: of him, some of them were profile pictures from his Facebook, 395 00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,560 Speaker 2: accessible to the public, including people he wasn't friends with 396 00:34:59,719 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 2: on the platform, like Janelle. Some of them weren't actually him. 397 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:12,520 Speaker 2: They were photos of very similar looking guys. He pointed 398 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,719 Speaker 2: out a picture of a man in a uniform one 399 00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,279 Speaker 2: officers had assumed was him. The likeness was so good, 400 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:23,200 Speaker 2: but Chris said he'd never warned that kind of uniform 401 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 2: maybe the photos of him available on the internet weren't 402 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:34,440 Speaker 2: enough for whoever had stolen his identity, as Dennis Brooks 403 00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:37,879 Speaker 2: points out, and too pretty to live. Who knows how 404 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 2: long the real culprit spent scraping through the Internet looking 405 00:35:42,360 --> 00:35:45,760 Speaker 2: for photos of men who were a match. Because whoever 406 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:51,200 Speaker 2: these investigators from Tennessee were looking for, they believed Chris Jaden. 407 00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:58,240 Speaker 2: It wasn't him. It was And I think you've probably 408 00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,839 Speaker 2: come to the same conclusion as the cop at this point, 409 00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:08,160 Speaker 2: Janelle all along, sitting up on that computer that had 410 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,120 Speaker 2: been her lifeline for so long. It was Janelle posing 411 00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:17,320 Speaker 2: as Chris, turning him into a creature of her own, making, 412 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:24,120 Speaker 2: someone obsessed with her safety and her enemies, someone who 413 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:28,680 Speaker 2: would kill for her, someone who would get the real 414 00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:35,840 Speaker 2: people in her life to kill for her. It's a 415 00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 2: really hard thing to wrap your head around, or at 416 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 2: least it was hard for me. I get jealousy, which 417 00:36:44,239 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 2: it seems pretty clear Janelle felt towards Billy Jean and 418 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 2: by extension, her friends. I get rejection, poisoning what was 419 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:56,560 Speaker 2: once a crush for Bill. I even get trash talking 420 00:36:56,600 --> 00:37:01,239 Speaker 2: all of these people. But Janelle did some thing so 421 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:06,279 Speaker 2: much more extreme. I mean, she catfished her parents and 422 00:37:06,400 --> 00:37:12,440 Speaker 2: her boyfriend, and she manipulated them into committing murder. I 423 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:17,000 Speaker 2: keep thinking about that auditory disorder she had. I wonder 424 00:37:17,080 --> 00:37:20,640 Speaker 2: if maybe she misunderstood some of her social interactions with 425 00:37:20,680 --> 00:37:25,640 Speaker 2: the mountain city locals. And I know how it feels 426 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,359 Speaker 2: in those small towns. I said it at the top 427 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,040 Speaker 2: of the last episode for our reason. Those are the 428 00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,000 Speaker 2: kinds of places where everyone will do anything for the 429 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:37,000 Speaker 2: people they know and love, but they can be hard 430 00:37:37,040 --> 00:37:44,840 Speaker 2: on outsiders. Maybe Janelle did get made fun of or 431 00:37:44,880 --> 00:37:50,360 Speaker 2: feel left out, and that stings. Maybe for Janelle, because 432 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:54,400 Speaker 2: of her disorder, it did more than just sting. But 433 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,520 Speaker 2: the fact of the matter is, whatever she thought she heard, 434 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,440 Speaker 2: she went on to make up blatant lies, and no 435 00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:05,920 Speaker 2: matter how mean a comment might be murder in response. 436 00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 2: That's obviously not okay, that's obviously wrong. We may never 437 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:16,399 Speaker 2: totally understand what went on in Janelle's head. She's never 438 00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:19,560 Speaker 2: admitted to her role in these crimes, not to being 439 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,719 Speaker 2: Chris or any of it. But Dennis Brooks and his 440 00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:28,239 Speaker 2: team got her convicted. They got Barbara convicted, they got 441 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:32,520 Speaker 2: Buddy convicted, all on two counts. Of first degree murder 442 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 2: and conspiracy to commit murder, all sentenced to life in prison. 443 00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:44,800 Speaker 2: All three of them have appealed their convictions. Janelle and 444 00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:50,279 Speaker 2: Buddies were upheld in court. Barbara was eventually granted a 445 00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:53,800 Speaker 2: new trial on the grounds that her original attorney presented 446 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,640 Speaker 2: a conflict of interest because he had previously represented Buddy, 447 00:38:59,200 --> 00:39:02,720 Speaker 2: But the case actually made it back to trial. Barbara 448 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:06,160 Speaker 2: pled guilty to two counts of facilitating first degree murder 449 00:39:06,520 --> 00:39:11,520 Speaker 2: in exchange for a reduced sentence twenty five years. For 450 00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,320 Speaker 2: the first time ever, she admitted some amount of guilt 451 00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 2: at least, even if we're still waiting on Janelle. Jamie 452 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,919 Speaker 2: Kurd cooperated with the prosecution from the start, not only 453 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 2: admitting guilt but doing extensive interviews with the prosecution. So 454 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:32,520 Speaker 2: during the original trial he received the same plea deal 455 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,680 Speaker 2: that Barbara eventually got from the get go, twenty five 456 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:40,600 Speaker 2: years in prison for two counts of facilitating first degree murder. 457 00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,840 Speaker 2: None of it brings back the parents of that baby. 458 00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:51,280 Speaker 2: He's going to spend his whole life without the parents 459 00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:54,879 Speaker 2: who loved him, who would have cherished him and supported him. 460 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:02,160 Speaker 2: Nothing can change that. But has been served, and that's 461 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:05,360 Speaker 2: in no small part thanks to the tenacity of Dennis 462 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,440 Speaker 2: Brooks and navigating the wild ins and outs of this 463 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:14,120 Speaker 2: crazy case. His book Too Pretty to Live breaks down 464 00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:17,640 Speaker 2: his account of the madness, and I'm lucky enough to 465 00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:21,319 Speaker 2: have spoken to him about the case myself that's coming 466 00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:50,320 Speaker 2: up after the break Stay with us, Dennis. It is 467 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:53,480 Speaker 2: so nice to meet you, and thank you so much 468 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:55,440 Speaker 2: for coming to talk to me. I just wanted to 469 00:40:55,560 --> 00:40:59,200 Speaker 2: jump right in and ask, because this is so compelling 470 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,600 Speaker 2: to me, talk a little more about the part of 471 00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,560 Speaker 2: family dynamics, because I just feel like there have to 472 00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:08,680 Speaker 2: have been some conditions that made Janelle into the kind 473 00:41:08,719 --> 00:41:10,640 Speaker 2: of person who would do what she did, and then 474 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 2: there were probably some things that made her parents into 475 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:16,120 Speaker 2: the kind of people who would respond to what she 476 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:17,080 Speaker 2: did with murder. 477 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:20,920 Speaker 1: My conclusion was they had all sort of victimized one another. 478 00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:26,080 Speaker 1: That Janelle grew up with some disabilities. I think she 479 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,320 Speaker 1: was in special education. I had a high school diploma 480 00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:35,680 Speaker 1: that was specially had related. She wasn't totally unable to 481 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:40,759 Speaker 1: do things, but she had some limitations, some challenges, and 482 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:44,080 Speaker 1: I took it from her history and from talking to 483 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,800 Speaker 1: her older sister, Christie, who did not have those types 484 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:52,680 Speaker 1: of limitations that she had. Janelle had led a sheltered 485 00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:58,959 Speaker 1: upbringing even into adulthood, staying there at the family's home, 486 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:03,319 Speaker 1: being cared for as a child, still even into her 487 00:42:03,400 --> 00:42:09,279 Speaker 1: late twenties, and not really having the ability or the 488 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 1: freedom to grow and spread her own wings. And I 489 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:17,080 Speaker 1: think that manifested itself in a loneliness that was natural 490 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:22,320 Speaker 1: for her, and she took that in directions that were unhealthy. 491 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:28,160 Speaker 1: Now likewise, her ability to manipulate her parents and get 492 00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:32,800 Speaker 1: them to believe things that weren't necessarily true, you know, 493 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,040 Speaker 1: she victimized them in turn. And I think it's just 494 00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:42,400 Speaker 1: sort of a perfect storm of a sort of dysfunction 495 00:42:42,880 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 1: that breeds something that's unimaginably horrible for people who were 496 00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: probably totally unsuspecting of what was going on. 497 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:56,800 Speaker 2: So, as we are moving into, like deeper into the 498 00:42:56,960 --> 00:43:01,880 Speaker 2: Internet age, are there any other cases that remind you 499 00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:02,479 Speaker 2: of this woman? 500 00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,800 Speaker 1: You know, the Potter family, they committed one of the 501 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,360 Speaker 1: worst things that's ever happened in our four county district. 502 00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:12,240 Speaker 1: And it's it's it's it's surprising. You know, it's not typical. 503 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,200 Speaker 1: I don't think it's typical here or probably anywhere else. 504 00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:19,680 Speaker 1: But obviously the Internet plays its way into cases now 505 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 1: where it didn't before. Our murder files are now voluminous 506 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,839 Speaker 1: because we're getting phone dumps, phone extraction reports and uh 507 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:33,400 Speaker 1: Facebook messenger search warrant returns, and you know, they're a 508 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: whole lot more convoluted, and you've got a whole lot 509 00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:39,880 Speaker 1: more information, and you know, sometimes a lot of that 510 00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:44,920 Speaker 1: electronic communications become really imperative in your cases. 511 00:43:45,320 --> 00:43:50,640 Speaker 2: Does the advance in technology make the justice system better 512 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 2: or worse? Or is it easier or harder? 513 00:43:55,080 --> 00:43:57,839 Speaker 1: What do you think? Well, you have the limitations of time. 514 00:43:57,920 --> 00:43:59,560 Speaker 1: You've only got so much time in today to be 515 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,120 Speaker 1: able to to devote to a case. And you know, 516 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,600 Speaker 1: the Potter case was pretty much my work life for 517 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,120 Speaker 1: a significant amount of time, which means all those aggravated 518 00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 1: burglaries and rapes and DUI's that were also on my 519 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:19,919 Speaker 1: docket didn't get my attention as much. And that's that's 520 00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:24,000 Speaker 1: a cost people don't understand. When it's a complicated case, 521 00:44:24,360 --> 00:44:27,520 Speaker 1: then that becomes the only thing you've got to do 522 00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:29,840 Speaker 1: because when when you walk in there in front of 523 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:33,879 Speaker 1: the jury, you've got to present the case, which means 524 00:44:33,960 --> 00:44:36,000 Speaker 1: not only just I'm going to give them information, but 525 00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,359 Speaker 1: I've got to call out the information that they need 526 00:44:38,480 --> 00:44:42,000 Speaker 1: to hear. You know, the Potter Case, we put in 527 00:44:42,080 --> 00:44:44,919 Speaker 1: two hundred and six pages. I still remember two hundred 528 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:48,359 Speaker 1: and six pages of emails total, but that wasn't even 529 00:44:48,440 --> 00:44:50,239 Speaker 1: ten percent of what I had to go through, and 530 00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:51,880 Speaker 1: I had to go through them over and over and 531 00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:54,959 Speaker 1: over and keep calling them out. When I wrote the book, 532 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,960 Speaker 1: I had to do the same thing, because you know, 533 00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,279 Speaker 1: I felt like I had to show the insanity to 534 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:01,840 Speaker 1: the reader. 535 00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:05,880 Speaker 2: What does your workday look like when you're doing something 536 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:06,239 Speaker 2: like that. 537 00:45:06,719 --> 00:45:09,680 Speaker 1: Typically I'll go in early to work and I've got 538 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:11,799 Speaker 1: two or three things I really want to accomplish. I'm 539 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:14,440 Speaker 1: lucky if i can get half of one of them accomplished, 540 00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:19,160 Speaker 1: because I'm always interrupted by victims calling in, or you know, 541 00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:24,920 Speaker 1: somebody on the staff asking questions about something, or officers 542 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:26,800 Speaker 1: having search warrants for me to look at, and so 543 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:30,040 Speaker 1: it's really hard to focus on something that is convoluted 544 00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: and complex. And I remember on the on the Potter Case, 545 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:37,600 Speaker 1: I would actually take my laptop and go over to 546 00:45:37,680 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 1: the local park and just sit out there without my 547 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:45,480 Speaker 1: phone for hours, where I could concentrate on it. There 548 00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,479 Speaker 1: was one time me and my wife went to Las 549 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,080 Speaker 1: Vegas and during the four hour flight out there, I 550 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:57,799 Speaker 1: had my laptop out reading Janelle's emails and categorizing them 551 00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,600 Speaker 1: because you know, I'm not being bothered then. But you 552 00:46:00,640 --> 00:46:04,000 Speaker 1: can only devote so much time like that to so 553 00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,359 Speaker 1: many cases at one time in your in your career. 554 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:08,279 Speaker 1: You can't do that with all of them doing that. 555 00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,560 Speaker 2: So I guess, I mean, this is the book, So 556 00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:13,080 Speaker 2: this is one of the big two or three of 557 00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:15,400 Speaker 2: your career. So how do you celebrate when you get 558 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:16,279 Speaker 2: a big victory like that? 559 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:22,360 Speaker 1: You just hug the families who are involved and you 560 00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:25,840 Speaker 1: go on. For me, I started writing a book because 561 00:46:26,920 --> 00:46:28,920 Speaker 1: it was the day after the verdict, and you know, 562 00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,600 Speaker 1: I took the day off and the case just wouldn't 563 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:33,040 Speaker 1: shut off. 564 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:33,640 Speaker 3: In my head. 565 00:46:33,760 --> 00:46:35,879 Speaker 1: I'm sitting there thinking, you know, somebody's going to write 566 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,480 Speaker 1: a book about this, so I wonder if I could. 567 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: And I just opened up a computer and I started. 568 00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,239 Speaker 1: I wrote a whole chapter in a flash, it seemed like. 569 00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:50,800 Speaker 1: And I looked back at it, I thought, yeah, I 570 00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:55,279 Speaker 1: had sounds pretty good for me, I thought, and uh, 571 00:46:55,920 --> 00:46:57,560 Speaker 1: I just kept going and it was it was a 572 00:46:57,600 --> 00:47:01,080 Speaker 1: way to release the case from my brain. 573 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:06,440 Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, what are the biggest lessons that you've carried 574 00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,279 Speaker 2: with you from this case or from writing about the case. 575 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,480 Speaker 1: One motivation I had for writing the book was that 576 00:47:13,200 --> 00:47:17,560 Speaker 1: hopefully someone out there who was a criminal investigator and 577 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:23,560 Speaker 1: aspiring criminal investigator and aspiring or current prosecutor could have 578 00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:28,960 Speaker 1: a story where they see, you know, the sausage being 579 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:35,160 Speaker 1: made on something that's that's complicated and important and and 580 00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:41,760 Speaker 1: maybe inspire them to go that extra length to pursue justice. 581 00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,279 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's real simple to prosecute some people, 582 00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:50,839 Speaker 1: but other people are also culpable, and but it's going 583 00:47:50,880 --> 00:47:53,759 Speaker 1: to take a little more work. And you know, you 584 00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:57,800 Speaker 1: hope that, you know, if it was your family member 585 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:01,960 Speaker 1: that was affected, that as a victim, that someone would 586 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:07,200 Speaker 1: take enough interest to go the extra mile and get 587 00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:10,120 Speaker 1: this done. And I thought this was a good example 588 00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:15,560 Speaker 1: of it having happened, you know, by co counsel Matt 589 00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:20,719 Speaker 1: Rourke and the TBI agent Scott lot Johnson Kinny Sheriff's Departments, 590 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,279 Speaker 1: Joe Woodard. We we'd worked as a team on it 591 00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,759 Speaker 1: and put it together. And you know, one of my 592 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,160 Speaker 1: favorite things about writing the book was I actually explained 593 00:48:31,239 --> 00:48:35,560 Speaker 1: how you know, and trying to prove Janelle and Barbara 594 00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,719 Speaker 1: were writing what they were writing doctor Lennard, who was 595 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:43,560 Speaker 1: the forensic linguistic expert from Hofstra University. This was a 596 00:48:43,680 --> 00:48:47,160 Speaker 1: fun story. He's way up in New York and he 597 00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,480 Speaker 1: sounds like a Yankee. He doesn't sound like anything like us, 598 00:48:50,719 --> 00:48:53,400 Speaker 1: you know. But I'd found him on a Google search 599 00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:55,120 Speaker 1: on one of those nights where I'm like, how do 600 00:48:55,239 --> 00:48:58,320 Speaker 1: I prove that Janelle was writing? This is Chris And 601 00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,680 Speaker 1: I found him and I sent an email to him. 602 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:04,759 Speaker 1: I didn't figure he would answer, but like the next 603 00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:07,680 Speaker 1: day he responds and he's like, yes, this is exactly 604 00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:10,560 Speaker 1: the kind of case I work on. And I send 605 00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,239 Speaker 1: him all our stuff and he's telling me, you know what, 606 00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:15,960 Speaker 1: we really need the gold standard for what I do. 607 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:21,840 Speaker 1: I need a known sample that they write by typing it. 608 00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,840 Speaker 1: And you know, we had a lot of known handwriting samples. 609 00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:29,879 Speaker 1: You know, we had people to identify their handwriting as 610 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,800 Speaker 1: being theirs. But he said, you know, there can be 611 00:49:31,880 --> 00:49:36,400 Speaker 1: some nuances in how they write handwriting versus how they 612 00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 1: write on a computer. So you know where our question 613 00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,680 Speaker 1: samples are. Emails where they've typed on a computer. We 614 00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,800 Speaker 1: really need known samples that are typed on a computer. 615 00:49:46,880 --> 00:49:52,880 Speaker 1: And I positive that problem to Investigator Ward over at 616 00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:55,120 Speaker 1: Johnson K Sheriff's Department. I'm like, you know, we've got 617 00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:58,200 Speaker 1: this problem. He says, we need that, and he says, well, 618 00:49:58,440 --> 00:50:01,160 Speaker 1: it's funny. They've been coming around Janelle and Barbara wanting 619 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:04,000 Speaker 1: to make complaints about all these people trashing their house 620 00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:07,480 Speaker 1: and vandalizing the property. I said, well that there you go. 621 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,319 Speaker 1: Bring them in there to your office, put them at 622 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:12,839 Speaker 1: the computer, tell them you want them to write everything 623 00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:14,960 Speaker 1: they can so that you can look into this. So 624 00:50:15,040 --> 00:50:17,880 Speaker 1: he's he's doing that one evening and he's texting to me. 625 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,160 Speaker 1: You know, I'm two counties away and he's telling me 626 00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,239 Speaker 1: all they're there at the computer. I'm like, oh, it's great, 627 00:50:23,280 --> 00:50:27,600 Speaker 1: and we're like scheming here, and they finally get done. 628 00:50:27,719 --> 00:50:31,280 Speaker 1: He sends me the in the email what they had typed, 629 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,560 Speaker 1: and then I afforded to uh doctor Leonard up at 630 00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,920 Speaker 1: Hofstra And by the end of the night, doctor Leonard 631 00:50:38,040 --> 00:50:40,880 Speaker 1: is examining their known writing samples. And you know, they 632 00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,680 Speaker 1: had no idea that we were doing that to them. 633 00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:50,600 Speaker 1: That was a good team exercise to get one piece 634 00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:52,640 Speaker 1: of the of the case, and it was an important 635 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:57,239 Speaker 1: piece because that really helped our known samples when we 636 00:50:57,600 --> 00:50:58,680 Speaker 1: analyzed it against. 637 00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:02,680 Speaker 2: The question was, Yeah, I love to hear about that teamwork. 638 00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:04,840 Speaker 2: I feel like we don't get to hear about that 639 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:07,480 Speaker 2: a lot. So love it when it works out like that. 640 00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:09,320 Speaker 2: And that's so cool too that they were like, we 641 00:51:09,440 --> 00:51:11,720 Speaker 2: have a complaint and they're like, by all means, please, 642 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:16,319 Speaker 2: I God, I love that. Okay, So I have one 643 00:51:16,360 --> 00:51:19,400 Speaker 2: more question. What do you hope people take away from this? 644 00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:21,680 Speaker 2: And what's the biggest takeaway for you? Like, what's the 645 00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:22,480 Speaker 2: most important thing? 646 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:22,960 Speaker 3: You know? 647 00:51:23,040 --> 00:51:25,239 Speaker 1: And you see it when you watch the Catfish TV 648 00:51:25,320 --> 00:51:28,480 Speaker 1: show on MTV. You know, they keep showing and there's 649 00:51:28,480 --> 00:51:32,080 Speaker 1: no telling how many people are out there in America, 650 00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:35,839 Speaker 1: in the whole world that are getting duped online by 651 00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:39,600 Speaker 1: people that are pretending to be someone they're not. And 652 00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:44,839 Speaker 1: you know, I think people are, especially if you're more 653 00:51:44,880 --> 00:51:49,279 Speaker 1: of a lonely type person, you're very susceptible to being 654 00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:55,279 Speaker 1: induced to an emotional relationship with someone and having that exploited. 655 00:51:55,320 --> 00:51:58,880 Speaker 1: And you see that on those TV shows such as 656 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:02,879 Speaker 1: that here in this case too, you know sometimes they're 657 00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:07,640 Speaker 1: just getting exploited of the their emotions, their love, their money. 658 00:52:07,800 --> 00:52:12,719 Speaker 1: But here there's actually two people that died as a 659 00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:16,320 Speaker 1: result of that kind of thing, and so it's something 660 00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:18,040 Speaker 1: that people need to. 661 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:18,520 Speaker 3: Be aware of. 662 00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,920 Speaker 2: That's a great note to end on, and thank you 663 00:52:30,520 --> 00:52:34,440 Speaker 2: so much for talking to me. I loved every second 664 00:52:34,520 --> 00:52:38,200 Speaker 2: of it. Really grateful to have had this opportunity with you, 665 00:52:38,520 --> 00:53:03,760 Speaker 2: so thank you. Join me next week on the Greatest 666 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,360 Speaker 2: true crime Stories Ever told for an episode on a 667 00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:11,319 Speaker 2: woman who played a crucial role in taking down one 668 00:53:11,360 --> 00:53:15,600 Speaker 2: of the biggest mob bosses in New York City, Lucky Luciano. 669 00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:20,280 Speaker 2: I'm talking about one of our first female African American 670 00:53:20,360 --> 00:53:25,160 Speaker 2: lawyers and prosecutors in the United States, Unice Hunting Carter. 671 00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,640 Speaker 2: I'd also like to shout out a few key sources 672 00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:31,800 Speaker 2: that made it possible for me to tell this story. 673 00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:35,600 Speaker 2: First of all, Dennis Brook's Too Pretty to Live the 674 00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,759 Speaker 2: Catfishing Murders of East Tennessee. You've heard me site from 675 00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,400 Speaker 2: it over the course of these past two episodes, and 676 00:53:41,520 --> 00:53:43,759 Speaker 2: now you've heard from the author Dennis Brooks as well, 677 00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:47,080 Speaker 2: but read it for yourself for even more detail. I 678 00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:49,520 Speaker 2: also want to shout out the court documents from the case, 679 00:53:49,800 --> 00:53:55,400 Speaker 2: which are available online and very informative. For information about 680 00:53:55,440 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 2: this case and others we cover on the show, visit 681 00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:02,759 Speaker 2: diversion Audio dot com. Sign up for Diversion's newsletter and 682 00:54:02,880 --> 00:54:05,080 Speaker 2: be among the first to hear about special behind the 683 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:08,239 Speaker 2: scenes features with the hosts and actors from Diversion's podcasts, 684 00:54:08,600 --> 00:54:11,759 Speaker 2: more shows you'll love from Diversion and our partners, and 685 00:54:11,920 --> 00:54:16,360 Speaker 2: other exclusive tidbits you can't get anywhere else. That's Diversion 686 00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:20,000 Speaker 2: Audio dot Com to sign up for the newsletter. The 687 00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:23,400 Speaker 2: Greatest True Crime Stories Ever Told is a production of 688 00:54:23,480 --> 00:54:29,200 Speaker 2: Diversion Audio. Your host is me Mary Kay mcbraer. This 689 00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:34,359 Speaker 2: episode was written by our editorial director, Nora Battel. Our 690 00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:39,760 Speaker 2: show is produced and directed by Mark Francis. Our development 691 00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:44,400 Speaker 2: team is Emma Dmouth and Jacob Bronstein. Theme music by 692 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:51,320 Speaker 2: Tyler Cash. Executive producers Jacob Bronstein, Mark Francis, and Scott Waxman. 693 00:55:01,560 --> 00:55:02,680 Speaker 3: Diversion Audio