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Speaker 1: Before we begin, a reminder to please rate and review us.

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Speaker 1: It helps people find the show. Hey, I'm John Gonzalez,

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Speaker 1: host of Sports Illustrated Weekly. I recently appeared on s

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Speaker 1: I S podcast Open Floor with staffer Rohan nod Kearney,

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Speaker 1: where we discussed tampering in the NBA league expansion and

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Speaker 1: a host of other topics. We hope you'll go to

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Speaker 1: that feed and listen to the entire show. But here

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Speaker 1: we began that conversation by remembering legend Bill Russell, who

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Speaker 1: recently passed away at eighty eight. As a special bonus

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Speaker 1: episode of our show. Here's that part of Open Floor

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Speaker 1: where we remember and pay tribute to Russell, a man

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Speaker 1: who was an incredible basketball player, but whose legacy extended

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Speaker 1: well beyond the court, to his admirable and important work

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Speaker 1: as an activist fighting for social justice and civil rights.

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Speaker 1: We hope you'll enjoy the discussion from Sports Illustrated and

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Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. This is a special bonus crossover with

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Speaker 1: Open Floor about Bill Russell. May he rest in peace. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: God's we have some you know, some sad news to

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Speaker 1: start the show today, obviously on Sunday. Uh, I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's really you can say Celtics legend, it's selling him short.

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Speaker 1: Bill Russell uh dying at age eight on Sunday, um

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Speaker 1: Man man oh man. It's ah, it's kind of just

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Speaker 1: hard to believe that someone like his, his life even existed,

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Speaker 1: you know, and there's been so many beautiful tributes. Are

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Speaker 1: colleague Chris Mannix writing a column today that his number

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Speaker 1: six should be retired across the league fully in support

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Speaker 1: of that. The thing that strikes me about Bill Russell

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Speaker 1: is that, you know, I joke on this podcast like

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Speaker 1: I don't care about any basketball that happened before blah

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Speaker 1: blah blah, mostly just a dig at the Celtics titles

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Speaker 1: that that Peanos always talking about. But in all seriousness,

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Speaker 1: I think, like the basketball, when you talk about Bill Russell,

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Speaker 1: the basketball really does come so far down the list,

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Speaker 1: even though he's one of the most accomplished athletes, uh

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Speaker 1: in the history of sports, especially team sports. But just uh,

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Speaker 1: the issues that he stood for, not only when he

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Speaker 1: was an athlete, I mean someone who stood with Colin

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Speaker 1: Kaepernick for example, these last few years, and just reading

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Speaker 1: the stories about the explicit racism that he dealt with.

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Speaker 1: It's not that these things never happened anymore, but the

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Speaker 1: degree to which they were happening to him, it's just

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Speaker 1: hard to believe that that It's just hard to believe

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Speaker 1: that it happens. Sometimes it's so far removed from ears

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Speaker 1: and eyes reality. For example. Uh, just truly an incredible person. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you and I both on this program and elsewhere,

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Speaker 1: love to delight in making fun of the Boston Celtics.

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Speaker 1: But when Bill Russell, somebody of his stature passes, that goes,

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Speaker 1: you know, like the snarkiness goes out the window, and

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Speaker 1: like you can fully appreciate him and his life as

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Speaker 1: a person. And to be honest with you, like the

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Speaker 1: preponderance of my thoughts about Bill Russell passing have nothing

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Speaker 1: to do about basketball, right because he was an incredible

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Speaker 1: all time Hall of Famer and you know, obviously before

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Speaker 1: our error, but anybody who's a basketball fan is well

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Speaker 1: acquainted with the type of player that Bill Russell was,

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Speaker 1: how transformative he was. He won eleven championships, he was

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Speaker 1: a twelve time All Star and Olympic gold medalist. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't thinking about any of that. I was thinking about

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Speaker 1: the activism and the social justice and how he fought

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Speaker 1: for civil rights and was right in the thick of it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, this is a guy who was born in

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Speaker 1: the Deep South in Louisiana, whose parents and family were

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Speaker 1: subject to deeply dehumanizing Jim Crow laws and that shaped

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Speaker 1: his existence, right, I mean throughout the entirety of his life.

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Speaker 1: This was a man who stood up and spoke out

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Speaker 1: for the things that he knew to be right against

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Speaker 1: uh laws and thought processes that he knew to be wrong.

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Speaker 1: And I just like have such deep respect abiding, uh

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Speaker 1: long living respect for somebody like that. Who you know.

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Speaker 1: Let's when it comes to professional athletes, there are we

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Speaker 1: we've seen it, right, I mean there they live among

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Speaker 1: us now, right, they live comfortable lives. Certainly during Bill

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Speaker 1: Russell's era they weren't compensated in the same way. But

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Speaker 1: for the whole of sports, existing athletes tend to live

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Speaker 1: more comfortable lives than the rest of society. So you

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Speaker 1: you frequently have people who don't speak out and don't

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Speaker 1: want to say anything about what's happening in the world.

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Speaker 1: Bill Russell was the opposite from the first to the last.

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Speaker 1: And like, I have against such deep respect for people

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Speaker 1: like that who, at potential expense to them say this

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Speaker 1: is what I think, this is what needs to change,

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Speaker 1: this is what I believe to be right and wrong.

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Speaker 1: And like all to his credit, he's a legend in

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Speaker 1: so many ways, and so so much of it doesn't

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Speaker 1: have anything to do with basketball, absolutely, and there's so

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Speaker 1: many ways to talk about him. And you know, one

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Speaker 1: thing that really strikes me is, you know, live obviously

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Speaker 1: in a very kind of like charged moment in society,

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Speaker 1: and realizing the ways in which the systemic racism that

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Speaker 1: he fought against, you know, those different ways in which

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Speaker 1: it's manifesting itself now right again, It's it's maybe not

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Speaker 1: as explicit as some of the things that he dealt with.

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Speaker 1: Doesn't mean it it's gone away entirely, but just to

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Speaker 1: think about again, and I don't want to. It's just

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Speaker 1: tough to think about the fact that there's gonna be

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Speaker 1: so many people who pay tribute to him today who

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Speaker 1: are going to criticize the next round of athletes who

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Speaker 1: take the similar stand that he did. And uh, it

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Speaker 1: just it goes back to his braveness and just how

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Speaker 1: cool he was. And I just think about, like how

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Speaker 1: all the times I was at an All Star weekend

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Speaker 1: or at an event that he was ad or it's

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Speaker 1: just so cool how much he was around the NBA.

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Speaker 1: You can tell, I don't. I can't think of a

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Speaker 1: single player who does not have just the utmost respect

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Speaker 1: for him and what he means to the game and

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Speaker 1: the influence that he still has on players. It's it's

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Speaker 1: really beautiful, and it's just he's such a larger than

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Speaker 1: life figure to me. I think I've told a story

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Speaker 1: on the podcast before I know it told it to

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Speaker 1: Pine at least. But I remember leaving Charlotte for All

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Speaker 1: Star Weekend once and ahead of me in the security

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Speaker 1: line at the airport was Bill Russell. I was just

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Speaker 1: so taken aback. I've never ever, ever, ever been that

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Speaker 1: star struck in my entire life. I was like, just

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Speaker 1: as like an American hero. I was like, why are

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Speaker 1: we even making him go through security like this is?

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Speaker 1: I was like, you know, I don't you don't want

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Speaker 1: to Like, I was like, do I shake his hand?

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Speaker 1: Do I say something? I don't want to bother this guy. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's just such a larger than life figure that. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I know it sounds silly, but I sometimes I can't

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Speaker 1: believe he's real. I know, I keep saying that. But

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Speaker 1: when you see all the stories about, oh, when his

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Speaker 1: house was vandalized, when the Celtics would go on road trips,

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Speaker 1: or the fact that you know that that exhibition strike

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Speaker 1: that he led in Kentucky, It's like things like that

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Speaker 1: are just they're so far removed, um, kind of from

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Speaker 1: what we're dealing with today. It's it's crazy, man, So

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Speaker 1: a long time ago, I'm older than you, A long

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Speaker 1: time ago, and you look, it's it's all it's really

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Speaker 1: just lighting and special effects. But a long time ago,

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Speaker 1: when I was first coming up, I was a senior

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Speaker 1: writer for Boston Magazine and I had the great fortune

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Speaker 1: to speak with Bill Russell. You mentioned, you know, when

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Speaker 1: his house was vandalized, when the Celtics would go on

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Speaker 1: the road. That was something that a lot of the Celtics,

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Speaker 1: a lot of the black players had to deal with.

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Speaker 1: I talk to Casey Jones about it one time, and

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Speaker 1: I had the I had the great fortune of speaking

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Speaker 1: with Bill Russell just about life in Boston as a

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Speaker 1: black man, and like, he was so great about it

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Speaker 1: and so thoughtful, and he said, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: about myself first as a human being and as an

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Speaker 1: activist and as an athlete. Second, but the symbolism of

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Speaker 1: how he handled things in that city. I mean, like

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Speaker 1: all the all the accomplishments we talked about with him

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Speaker 1: in the Celtics, I think his greatest accomplishment and what

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Speaker 1: really meant so much, um not just to the black community,

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Speaker 1: but sports were at large. He was the first black

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Speaker 1: head coach of anyone of any of the four major

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Speaker 1: sports in America. And he did it in Boston. And

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Speaker 1: for people who don't really understand, Boston has a let's

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Speaker 1: call it fraught history with race relations that they were

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Speaker 1: famously the Boston Red Sox were famously the last team

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Speaker 1: to integrate in Major League Baseball. And then you have

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Speaker 1: Bill Russell, who's this transformative figure who despite the fact

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Speaker 1: that his house was vandalized, was still a beloved figure

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Speaker 1: in Boston and who loved Boston back right and um

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Speaker 1: didn't stop fighting for the things that he knew to

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Speaker 1: be right, didn't excuse the racism that was um prevalent

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Speaker 1: in Boston, the undertones of it, sometimes the overtones of it,

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Speaker 1: and yet was this unifying figure. And like the way

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Speaker 1: that he bridged that gap, I don't think I would

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Speaker 1: have had that grace. Right. I don't think that if

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Speaker 1: I was somebody who was in his position and came

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Speaker 1: home and found my house vandalized or heard slurs on

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Speaker 1: the street, that I could turn the other cheek and go, no,

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm gonna keep fighting for these things. But

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Speaker 1: also I can see the good in people who aren't

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Speaker 1: like that. But that was Bill Russell. And like when

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Speaker 1: he was given the Presidential Medal of Freedom by President Obama,

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Speaker 1: he said, I hope that this is an indication that

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Speaker 1: I led a good life. And man did he. That's

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Speaker 1: really well, said John, And and you nailed it. I mean, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you and I are not gonna be able to unpack

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Speaker 1: kind of fully that era of American society and the

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Speaker 1: race relations in Boston. And and I think you bring

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Speaker 1: up a good point, like he did love the city,

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Speaker 1: and there are black people in Boston who loved him,

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Speaker 1: and it's there's so many layers to that situation and

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Speaker 1: it was so complicated, but you mentioned just the kind

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Speaker 1: of the you know, I would I also don't blame

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Speaker 1: the people who don't have grace, but just kind of

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Speaker 1: the integrity, which was he dealt with everything that came

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Speaker 1: his way in his life is. It's really beautiful. And

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Speaker 1: I do want to talk about him as a basketball

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Speaker 1: player for a second, only in since that. I just

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Speaker 1: love how much of a competitor he was um Like,

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Speaker 1: you you know, just even forget the championships and all

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Speaker 1: those things, Like we always hear these stories about you know,

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Speaker 1: Michael Jordan's or et cetera, these people who are kind

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Speaker 1: of these legendary competitors, and I think you can put

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Speaker 1: him in that category. I mean, there's that clip that

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Speaker 1: you know a lot of people have shared. I remember

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Speaker 1: watching it when it happened. But he's on stage like

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Speaker 1: the NBA Awards with all the other centers and he's

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Speaker 1: pointing at all of them. He's like, I would kick

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Speaker 1: your ass. Like that's awesome, you know, just that competitive

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Speaker 1: spirit that he had. And there's a clip that I

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Speaker 1: saw again, a lot of people have been posting this.

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Speaker 1: I think he's talking to Kobe Bryant in an All

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Speaker 1: Star game. He's like, I like to watch players. He's like,

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Speaker 1: the way I like to watch basketball is I want

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Speaker 1: to see what agenda players have when they're on the court,

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Speaker 1: and then what they're doing to try to fulfill that.

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Speaker 1: You know, paraphrasing, And I think that's just such an

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Speaker 1: insight into he wants to see people compete, right, that's

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Speaker 1: he wants to know what their agenda is. Is it

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Speaker 1: to win? Is it to compete? And again, when you

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Speaker 1: talk about his legacy as a basketball player, it goes

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Speaker 1: so much more than the rings he won, but his

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Speaker 1: approach to the game and you know, wanting to be

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Speaker 1: better than will um Man. They I just don't know

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Speaker 1: that we have a figure like that anymore, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, they had some epic battles. For sure,

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Speaker 1: they pushed each other. I think they made each other better.

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Speaker 1: That competition, that level of effort that you're talking about

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Speaker 1: on the court, and again, for me, oh that's great,

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Speaker 1: but like what he did off the court like just

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Speaker 1: is everything for me. But that that level of effort

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Speaker 1: that he gave in his life, it had to be exhausting,

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Speaker 1: Like like think about how good he was as a

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Speaker 1: basketball player. That alone takes supreme drive, focus, determination. Um

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Speaker 1: just like like knowing that you have to do it

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Speaker 1: season in and season out, and then on top of

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Speaker 1: that off the court, you know, there's no rest for him.

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Speaker 1: There was never any rest for him up till he

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Speaker 1: was eighty eight. He was just still going. He was

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Speaker 1: just incredibly dynamic and dynamic. And I want to bring

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Speaker 1: it back to that Medal of Freedom thing too, because

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Speaker 1: he didn't he didn't ever like tune out. Right. He

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Speaker 1: posted a picture kneeling with that Medal of Freedom around

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Speaker 1: his neck in solidarity with the NFL players who have

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Speaker 1: been attacked and criticized by presid then President Trump, And

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Speaker 1: I'm like, this guy doesn't take any time off. He's

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Speaker 1: he's an octogenarian and he's like, oh, yeah, I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna let this moment pass. He could, like, of all

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Speaker 1: the people on the planet who could afford to let

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Speaker 1: a pitch go by because of all the good will

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Speaker 1: and effort that they had accrued, right, all the equity

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Speaker 1: that they had put in, it would be Bill Russell.

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Speaker 1: And he's like, nah, not taking this moment off, Like,

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Speaker 1: that's Bill Russell. That's such a great point. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: that it's such a good point. The effort, man, it

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Speaker 1: has to be exhausting, all the things that he dealt with.

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Speaker 1: And I'll just never know how someone is able to

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Speaker 1: lead a life like that. And you mentioned, yeah, kneeling

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Speaker 1: with the that metal like, that's truly truly iconic. People

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Speaker 1: use that phrase like freely now jokingly. Now, that's that's

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Speaker 1: truly iconic. And yeah, like you said, never let a

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Speaker 1: pitch go by taking that stand again when you when

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Speaker 1: people were being criticized by literally the president. Um again,

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Speaker 1: it's just integrity, That's what that is. That always being

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Speaker 1: on the right side of history. It's really remarkable. Um

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Speaker 1: Or do you think that he got his I mean,

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Speaker 1: because obviously you know he's being fedted today. Everybody's remembering him.

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Speaker 1: He is one of the grades of all time and

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Speaker 1: is remembered that way. But do you think that he

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Speaker 1: got his full Dude, like the people properly remember Bill

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Speaker 1: Russell and his legacy. Because in today's So, we have

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Speaker 1: an s I Now newsletter. It's written by Josh rosen Blad.

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Speaker 1: I highly recommend everybody subscribe to it. It's really good

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Speaker 1: every day. He's got some really fresh stuff in there.

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Speaker 1: But so he unearthed the story from Frank DeFord, a

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Speaker 1: legendary SI writer, and he has a quote in it

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Speaker 1: from Tommy Heinsen, who's also a Celtics legend, long time

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Speaker 1: Celtics collar play by play guy. Here's the quote. I

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Speaker 1: want to read it to you, and I think this

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Speaker 1: frames it out. And this doesn't even get into the

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Speaker 1: social justice, civil rights activism. This is just the basketball component.

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Speaker 1: Tommy Hansen quote. Look, all I know is the guy

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Speaker 1: won two n C Double A Championships, fifties something college

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Speaker 1: games in a row, the fifties six Olympics. Then he

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Speaker 1: came to Boston and won eleven championships in thirteen years,

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Speaker 1: and they named an effing tunnel after Ted Williams. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I saw that. Excellent point. Yeah, Um, I think that

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Speaker 1: probably like contemporarily, I don't know that he necessarily got

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Speaker 1: in no respect. I do think later in his career,

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Speaker 1: like I think what the NBA did, like naming the

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Speaker 1: finals MVP Trophy after him, like a small but great gesture.

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Speaker 1: I loved seeing him at the finals every year. I

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Speaker 1: think they did a great job bringing him. Like I

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Speaker 1: said to All Star year, I do think that at

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Speaker 1: least within the NBA community the last at least as

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Speaker 1: long as I've been covering the NBA, there's been so

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Speaker 1: much respect for him, and you can see it with

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Speaker 1: the players. Um and again, I think his willingness to

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Speaker 1: kind of continue to take stands has really endeared him

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Speaker 1: to players as well. Uh that it's tough. I mean,

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Speaker 1: how do you kind of how do you properly pay

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Speaker 1: tribute to someone like him? Right? Like it would take

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Speaker 1: it would take so many lifetimes for most other people

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Speaker 1: to fit what he did in one that I don't

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Speaker 1: know how you could even like properly really pay tribute

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Speaker 1: to him. But I do think at the very least

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Speaker 1: like the respect and support I've seen from the NBA

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Speaker 1: community for him, at least since I've been covering the

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Speaker 1: league at least that I think is matched what he deserves.

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Speaker 1: But I'm with you, I mean, like, how do you

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Speaker 1: where do you stop? With him? Like? Truly a transformational

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Speaker 1: figure and a leader in so many different ways. What

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Speaker 1: a life? I mean, honestly what a life like? He?

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Speaker 1: Can I throw out one more thing? Please? He managed

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Speaker 1: to do something in addition to all of this other

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Speaker 1: stuff that I thought was impossible, which is making me

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Speaker 1: think fondly of a Boston Celtic, Like, right, I mean,

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Speaker 1: like the guy's just like he's just transformative and like

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Speaker 1: what a life lived. And the league, not just the league,

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Speaker 1: but the country. You called him an American hero. That's

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Speaker 1: exactly right. I mean during the civil rights movement when

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Speaker 1: he again he just didn't take a moment off. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and every moment after that. For him to stand up

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Speaker 1: for equality and civil rights is just Um. If that

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Speaker 1: is the defining legacy, and if he had done nothing else,

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Speaker 1: it would have been an incredible life, and he did

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Speaker 1: so much more. No, we're honestly the way we're just

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Speaker 1: we're lucky to have shared time with him. You know

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Speaker 1: what I mean is the way I look at it. Uh.

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Speaker 1: You know, we could talk about Bill russ all day.

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Speaker 1: There's many great tributes like please read that Frank to

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Speaker 1: Ford's story, read the Christmannick story. But whatever you can

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Speaker 1: read about Bill Russell his memoir are are good. Buddy.

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Speaker 1: Michael Pena, back when he was writing for g Q,

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Speaker 1: wrote a piece about Bill Russell's memoir which is harrowing

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Speaker 1: in moments, but just so informational and educational sony ways.

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Speaker 1: Highly recommend people. I believe it's called second Win. Um,

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Speaker 1: highly recommend people read that. Um. Yeah, man, like you said,

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Speaker 1: what a life. I think that's the best way to

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Speaker 1: put it. Thanks for listening, and a reminder to please

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Speaker 1: or wherever you get your favorite shows. And for more

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Speaker 1: of Sports Illustrated It's best stories and podcasts, visit SI

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Speaker 1: dot com. This episode of Sports Illustrated Weekly was produced

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Speaker 1: by Jordan Rizzieri, Jessica you Ramoski, and I Lee, who

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Speaker 1: was also our sound engineer. Our senior producers are Dan

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