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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, it's me Rosie O'Donnell and Happy Halloween. Happy Halloween.

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Speaker 1: I can't resist the candy corn. When I go to

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Speaker 1: CVS to get my medicine, there's the candy corn always

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Speaker 1: around this time. And you know, I'm not even a

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Speaker 1: real fan of candy corn, but I like having it

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Speaker 1: out in a dish in my house. It makes it

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Speaker 1: feel like it's Halloween. And you know, when I was

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Speaker 1: much younger, my first go round as a mom with

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Speaker 1: my four little ones who are now twenty one to

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Speaker 1: twenty eight, so they're all big, big kids, but we

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Speaker 1: used to have the greatest display in our yard. Like

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Speaker 1: we bought everything that you could buy in terms of

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Speaker 1: blow up, lit up moving things, you know, and we

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Speaker 1: used to have beer for the adults and water and

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Speaker 1: juice for the kids and haystacks to sit on and

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Speaker 1: it was so amazing. Well, my kiddo, Dakota, who is

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Speaker 1: now going by Clay but wants me to call them Dakota,

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Speaker 1: so I know it's confusing, but just so we know,

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Speaker 1: there's only one kid and they are going to be

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Speaker 1: eleven in January. Well, they had their first Halloween party

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Speaker 1: on the weekend and it was thrilling, I have to say,

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Speaker 1: to see them so excited. It was just a couple kids,

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Speaker 1: because big crowds don't do so well with their nervous system,

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Speaker 1: and so we had a small group. But it fun

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Speaker 1: was had by all, I could tell you that, and

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Speaker 1: I'm happy to have the distraction of Halloween. Quite honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to talk about what's going on

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Speaker 1: in the world, and I haven't really been doing tiktoks.

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Speaker 1: It's a troubling time for so many PTSD and people

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Speaker 1: who like me have very thin membranes in the world,

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Speaker 1: like things seem to permeate inside me in a manner

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Speaker 1: that is debilitating to me. So I feel completely debilitated

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Speaker 1: by what's going on in the Mid East. I feel

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Speaker 1: debilitated by the white male American terrorists who shot up

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Speaker 1: two towns in Maine, a bowling alley and Billiard's place,

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Speaker 1: killing so many. The speaker of the house, who's a Trumper.

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Speaker 1: The problem with having a trumper is that you end

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Speaker 1: up with someone like bet and Yahoo running your country,

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Speaker 1: and that doesn't serve its people. So I don't know

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Speaker 1: what to say. We did this interview a couple days

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Speaker 1: ago with my really good friend Charles Bush, who is

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Speaker 1: so wonderful. He is just amazing. He's written a memoir

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Speaker 1: and he's brought so many people, so much entertainment. He's

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Speaker 1: how do you explain Charles? You know, Charles is an

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Speaker 1: author of an out, laugh, out loud memoir called Leading Lady,

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Speaker 1: A Memoir of a most Unusual Boy. And the title

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Speaker 1: does not like Charles grew up like the movie and

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Speaker 1: the play Mame, the musical Mame. You know, he had

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Speaker 1: an anti Mame and her name was lil and she

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Speaker 1: went on to adopt him after his mom died when

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Speaker 1: he was quite young, and he became a theater writer,

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Speaker 1: award winning a playwright, a theater actress, a drag legend,

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Speaker 1: way before anyone, including Charles, thought that drag would become legendary,

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Speaker 1: and his popular as it is today in our culture.

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Speaker 1: Leading Lady is. It's a wonderful book. It's filled with

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Speaker 1: big names and Charles drops them eloquently, including mine. There's

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Speaker 1: a chapter on our time with boy George creating that

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Speaker 1: monster show called Taboo, and it was the best of times,

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Speaker 1: it was the worst of times. But I have zero regrets.

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Speaker 1: I really think everything in your life takes you to

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Speaker 1: where you are in this moment, and living in the

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Speaker 1: present is the only way to do it. So we're

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Speaker 1: going to give you, you know, fifty minutes of very entertaining, intelligent,

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Speaker 1: kind loving artist named Charles Bush. Sit back and enjoy

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Speaker 1: a conversation with Charles Bush. Well, Hello, Charles Bush. It's

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Speaker 1: lovely to see you. Even though it's only virtually.

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Speaker 2: It's better than nothing.

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Speaker 1: You're damn right, it's better than nothing. How are you.

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Speaker 2: I'm doing very well, very well, and I'm so looking

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Speaker 2: forward to chatting with you. It's been so long. And

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Speaker 2: Chris hear, I've written this book and there's a big

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Speaker 2: chapter about you. I hope you hope you approve.

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Speaker 1: I approve. I read it. I was like, that was

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Speaker 1: a crazy time. Whatever anybody's experience was, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: validate because it was not a great time for me,

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Speaker 1: you know, getting sued and leaving my show and not

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Speaker 1: really figuring out what was happening there on the set

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Speaker 1: of Taboo, you.

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Speaker 2: Know, and you were just criticized right and left.

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Speaker 1: You just couldn't win, exactly couldn't win. But you know,

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Speaker 1: when I'm proud of that show. I think you did

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Speaker 1: a great job. I think that George wasn't in the

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Speaker 1: best shape right then and in his life as a

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Speaker 1: personal struggles with addiction, and you know, I think we

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Speaker 1: had a lot, a lot of things against us. But

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Speaker 1: you know that Steven Sonheim said before he died he

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Speaker 1: thought it was one of the most underrated musicals of

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Speaker 1: his lifetime.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I was, so. You know, I don't know

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Speaker 2: about you, but I find particularly when something's sick, kind

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Speaker 2: of fresh disaster, you know, I can't really see anything

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Speaker 2: good about it right afterwards. You know, Tony Kushner and

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Speaker 2: Susan Stroman would tell me how much they loved Taboo,

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Speaker 2: and I thought, well, they're pretty smart people. I better

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Speaker 2: you know, you know, reevaluate it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, without a doubt, you can't, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the midst of the tragedy, like it feels so

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Speaker 1: overwhelming and you think you'll never ever get through it

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Speaker 1: and survive it. And I love doing it. I loved

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Speaker 1: getting to be a part of it. I didn't fully

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Speaker 1: understand what I was getting into. But I'm thankful to

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Speaker 1: this day that you said yes to me, and I'm

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Speaker 1: sorry we didn't go on the concord.

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Speaker 2: That's how you were seducing me.

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Speaker 1: But even that I loved. When you wrote that, I

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Speaker 1: thought was maybe I was ifinitely wanted you to do it.

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Speaker 1: When I saw it, I thought, this, there's no book here,

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Speaker 1: there's no real story, and who would get the humor

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Speaker 1: and the pathos and the pathos? I guess that's the

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Speaker 1: word I thought of you, because you know, I know

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Speaker 1: I've told you this Charles in person, but Tale of

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Speaker 1: the Eligius Wife was the funniest thing that I ever

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Speaker 1: saw in a theater in my life. I could not believe. Now,

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Speaker 1: I've also have to remind you I knew nothing about

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Speaker 1: it when I went in. I just knew it was

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Speaker 1: Linda Lavin and I went in and I was completely

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Speaker 1: blown away. And then I was in my Charles Bush wormhole,

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Speaker 1: and I've never left. You're an incredibly talented guy, and

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy that our paths crossed and that you

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Speaker 1: were generous enough to try to do this impossible thing

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Speaker 1: with me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. At first, you know, I thought it was Kevin

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Speaker 2: Eddie idea. And then you know, after we spent some

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Speaker 2: time together. First of all, I was touched by the

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Speaker 2: It's so rare that somebody goes into a project, like

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Speaker 2: you did do it. This is such a pure motive

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Speaker 2: that you really wanted to do something artistic with people

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Speaker 2: that you respect, and it just and it annoyed me

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Speaker 2: that after it was over that you weren't given credit

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Speaker 2: for that. So anyway, yeah, it was.

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Speaker 1: It was a very bad time, you know. I think

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Speaker 1: that when when somebody makes a big move, like you know,

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Speaker 1: to leave that show was hard for some people. People

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Speaker 1: were mad, you know, and then I got sued by

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Speaker 1: the magazine and it was like a year of bad press,

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Speaker 1: maybe even two. And it was just icky. But but

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Speaker 1: I have fond memories of it, you know. I put

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Speaker 1: on the soundtrack the cast album. Yeah, sometimes, yes, And

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Speaker 1: I love remembering the auditions. I loved remembering like to

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Speaker 1: tell Brooke to go get a little punked out before

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Speaker 1: she came back and belted it, you know, like I

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Speaker 1: felt like, oh my god, this is Judy and Mickey

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Speaker 1: and I'm doing it, you know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I do remember though, one kind of outrageous thing though,

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Speaker 2: with you that when we were having auditions for a

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Speaker 2: part of Big Sue. Yes, We're all sitting there behind

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Speaker 2: the table, you know, the tribunal and Liz McCartney walked

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Speaker 2: in and she was fantastic, and before anyone else could

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Speaker 2: say anything, you said, Hey, welcome to Broadway. Dway show exactly.

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Speaker 1: Well, I didn't even know. You had to talk to

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Speaker 1: the other people.

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Speaker 2: You know, whispered to the director and said, do we

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Speaker 2: just cast to leave the show? Yes? Okay. She was great.

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Speaker 2: I mean she was the best one who auditioned, and.

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Speaker 1: That part meant so much to me. That role, you know,

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Speaker 1: of kind of the fat friend with the gay guy

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Speaker 1: and wanting to be a part of something but not

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Speaker 1: knowing how to fit in. And I just felt like

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Speaker 1: that was a lot that spoke to me, that part.

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Speaker 1: And we had had such trouble in the auditions. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: where's the person who's gonna knock this song out of

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Speaker 1: the out of the park? And she's sure did didn't she?

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Speaker 3: Yes?

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Speaker 2: And she was pregnant, didn't she stay there?

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Speaker 1: Yes?

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Speaker 2: She about nine months pregnant.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, she was nine months when we opened or something

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Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, but fond Memories. I loved your book,

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Speaker 1: and I can't believe that it took you twelve years

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Speaker 1: to write it, although you were writing plays in between.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I had about four plays in between

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Speaker 2: so I took a break and I but I just

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Speaker 2: didn't know really what form it was going to be.

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Speaker 2: And I would go to the bookstores and look up

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Speaker 2: us Leana Dunham. What had she do her book? Oh,

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Speaker 2: it's all short stories. Oh, maybe it should be that.

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Speaker 2: And then then I look at somebody else's book and

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Speaker 2: oh it starts in a chapter one I am born,

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Speaker 2: or maybe it ought to be that one. But right

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Speaker 2: right really ended up after all those years, being exactly

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Speaker 2: where I started out, and I'm very happy with it.

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Speaker 2: It's got a strange structure, it's it's mostly chronological, but

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Speaker 2: then I go off on detours, as we would if

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Speaker 2: we were telling our story, you know, to friends in

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Speaker 2: our right right. So it's something like I always A

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Speaker 2: good example, I guess would be that, you know, I

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Speaker 2: grew up in New York City and my aunt Lilian,

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Speaker 2: who's really the leading lady of the title leading Lady,

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Speaker 2: yes Yes, started taking me to Broadway shows when I

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Speaker 2: was about eight, and so in the book, I'll say

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Speaker 2: that that one of the shows we saw was Hella

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Speaker 2: Dolly with Carol Channing, which then reminds me of when

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Speaker 2: I shared a dressing room with her at a fundraiser

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Speaker 2: forty years later, So.

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Speaker 1: Tell everyone that story, please.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, this is kind of what happens to me,

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Speaker 2: is you know, I've had this career as a I

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Speaker 2: guess a male actress, and maybe it's I don't know

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Speaker 2: what to call myself, but but that's.

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Speaker 1: Perfect a male actress. You won awards for your for

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Speaker 1: your acting, and you play a grand damn like no

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Speaker 1: one else does. Charles. It's it's almost like you're channeling somebody.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's a really good way of putting it. It

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Speaker 2: just kind of comes out of me. And anyways, but consequently,

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Speaker 2: often I end up being put in in the women's

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Speaker 2: dressing room and nobody seems to blink. No, no woman

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Speaker 2: has ever excuse me, why are you in here? You know,

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Speaker 2: I'm just kind of accepted as one of them. So

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Speaker 2: one time it was I think maybe one of the

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Speaker 2: equity fights aids, things like a Gypsy of the Year

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Speaker 2: or something like that, or or an Easter Bond competition.

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Speaker 2: And so my friend Carl and I arrived and we

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Speaker 2: were sent up to this big communal dressing room and

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Speaker 2: at the New Amsterdam Theater, and then Mario Cantone is

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Speaker 2: a friend of all of us are yes, wonderful guy,

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Speaker 2: and said said, do you know you're in the women's

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Speaker 2: dressing room. I said, no, I'm not. He goes, yeah, look,

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Speaker 2: you know I'm downstairs with Brian Stokes, Mitchell and Patrick Stewart.

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Speaker 2: You're here with Betty Buckley and Audrey mcdonnald. And also

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Speaker 2: at that point, Carol Channing walks in with her her husband,

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Speaker 2: Charles Lowe, and they say low to us. Then she

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Speaker 2: sits down next to me at the dressing table, and

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Speaker 2: we're putting on our makeup, and and she's doing this

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Speaker 2: you know, wild stylized, you know, old time Broadway right,

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Speaker 2: and we're all just fascinated seeing Carol Channing putting on

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Speaker 2: her her face. And she I'm putting on my false eyelashes,

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Speaker 2: and she says, she says, I can't wear false eyelashes

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Speaker 2: anymore because I have a permanent eye in fiction. But

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Speaker 2: so then she starts taking a black eyebrow pens some

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Speaker 2: just drawing stripes, black stripes on her eyelids. I'm thinking,

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Speaker 2: I don't think this is going to work, you know,

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Speaker 2: but we're just wrapped it, fascinated watching her. And when

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Speaker 2: she finally finished, she just turned and her face was

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Speaker 2: maybe three inches to mine, and she said, how do

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Speaker 2: I look? And I pulled back a bit and I said,

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Speaker 2: you look like her. And that's what I needed to hear,

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Speaker 2: because that's what we all want, is just I still

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Speaker 2: turn the trick and I still be who I was.

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Speaker 2: And she did and then she got it that was

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Speaker 2: what she needed to hear. She got up and she

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Speaker 2: could now just hang out with Carol Burnette so wild.

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Speaker 1: She once came into the dressing room of Grease when

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Speaker 1: I was there, and Bobby Pierce was my dresser, and

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Speaker 1: he he's a wonderfully talented Tony nominated costume designer. He's

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Speaker 1: a big guy. We look alike kind of we similar features.

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Speaker 1: And so I was in the shower when Carol Channing

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Speaker 1: came in to say hello, and Bobby was there talking

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Speaker 1: and saying yes, uh huh. And I walked out and

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Speaker 1: I said, oh, Carol Channing and she said hello, Jarli,

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Speaker 1: wasn't Rosie wonderful and pointed to Bobby And I didn't

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Speaker 1: know what to do, so I just went with it.

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Speaker 1: You know, the thing in your book that I loved is,

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Speaker 1: of course your anti mame life. You really do have

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Speaker 1: you have lived a life of anti mame, and I've

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Speaker 1: always thought of it like that when you've told me

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Speaker 1: stories about your aunt, and it's and in the book

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Speaker 1: you get to see some of the twists and the

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Speaker 1: dark things, Like I was shocked to find out that

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Speaker 1: your aunt pitted you against your dad.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, I think with our parents.

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Speaker 1: Your mom died when you were ten.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, when when I was seven. Yeah. And the thing is,

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Speaker 2: I don't I don't think you necessarily have to forgive

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Speaker 2: apparent everything, but I think if you can try to

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Speaker 2: understand and put in context to the mistakes they made,

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Speaker 2: and I'd say, my aunt, really, you know, there was

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Speaker 2: basically she made every right choice for me. I mean

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Speaker 2: really it just kind of over everything. But uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: she was human, and I thought it was important in

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Speaker 2: the book not just to paint a completely idealized portrait

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Speaker 2: of her. I don't think she really would have appreciated that.

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Speaker 2: You know, she was such an honest, honest person, So

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Speaker 2: I thought, you know, the couple of things that she

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Speaker 2: you know, did wrong, but out of her own emotions,

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Speaker 2: you know, she really just hated my father and she

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Speaker 2: had pretty good reason actually for me, by his irresponsibility

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Speaker 2: and at one.

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Speaker 1: Point, but you felt torn between.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was I don't think you should ever

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Speaker 2: really try to alienate from another person, and just couldn't

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Speaker 2: help it. At a certain point, she tries, She really

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Speaker 2: tried for the first years after my mother died, you know,

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Speaker 2: even though my father was so irresponsible, she thought it

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Speaker 2: was important that I had this strong male figure, so

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Speaker 2: she defended him and all that, and at a certain

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Speaker 2: points she just couldn't take it anymore. She just couldn't

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Speaker 2: take it. So suddenly she just dropped this illusion and

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Speaker 2: my turned my father and says to Kenzie and kind

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Speaker 2: of villain. And it was kind of hard because he

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Speaker 2: was so much fun, you know, right, you know, and

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Speaker 2: he never you know, he never hit us, He was

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Speaker 2: never drunk. He was you know, my father was just

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Speaker 2: basically seventeen years old and never you know, never grew

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Speaker 2: up and fun, affectionate, loved old movies. Yeah, but he

295
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Speaker 2: was really just so careless and irresponsible, and I finally,

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Speaker 2: you know, had to you know, I was so connected

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Speaker 2: with my aunt, who you know was at this point

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Speaker 2: had adopted me, so I just felt I had basically

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Speaker 2: had to choose, and that was very hurtful and but

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Speaker 2: fortunately at the end of my father's life, I was

301
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Speaker 2: able to somehow try to heal myself of this coldness

302
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Speaker 2: and expressed feel some kind of affection for him, and

303
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Speaker 2: you know, and he he just was so completely uncritical.

304
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Speaker 2: He'd accepted whatever you threw at him, right, right, So

305
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Speaker 2: I had at the end, you know, the last few years.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's important.

307
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Speaker 2: I think Maria died, I was able to somehow visit

308
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Speaker 2: my father in Florida and you know, just embrace him,

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Speaker 2: and it was good for both of us.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think that when you don't have that, which I

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Speaker 1: didn't get with my dad, I think it always leaves

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Speaker 1: you somewhat longing, you know, I'm sure before he passed,

314
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Speaker 1: but you know, choices we make and where we find

315
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Speaker 1: ourself you never would expect when you were a child.

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Speaker 1: I was very Are you surprised to find out that

317
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Speaker 1: as much as she embraced your feminine side, Yeah, she

318
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Speaker 1: was a little flipped out that you were gay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was a surprise because she was just a real,

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Speaker 2: you know, classic liberal democrat.

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Speaker 4: You know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, again, I have to kind of give her a

323
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Speaker 2: little bit of slack, and that it was nineteen seventy three,

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Speaker 2: and you know, gay imagery was still pretty horrible in

325
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Speaker 2: the media. And as much as she was a sophisticated

326
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Speaker 2: New York or, she really didn't have gay friends. It's

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Speaker 2: a pity, you know, she would have had a much

328
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Speaker 2: less lonely old age, right. You know, if if she

329
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Speaker 2: just had had a group of you know, gay guys

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Speaker 2: who thought she was fabulous, it would have been very

331
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Speaker 2: helpful to her. But now, yeah, it was when she

332
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Speaker 2: kind of kind of confronted me in college, it was

333
00:18:48,960 --> 00:18:51,280
Speaker 2: sort of obvious what was going on. She said, are

334
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Speaker 2: you gay? And I said yeah, and she flipped out.

335
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Speaker 2: She just you know, sobbed and was so misinformed. And

336
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:02,399
Speaker 2: you know, but I think in a way she sex

337
00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,840
Speaker 2: to her was not a big deal, like she right right,

338
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,320
Speaker 2: her husband died, you know, she never went on a

339
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 2: date or anything or you know, so I think that

340
00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,800
Speaker 2: what she couldn't quite get was like, why would you know,

341
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,040
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy three, why would you want to be

342
00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:25,120
Speaker 2: you know, gay when you know you're completely shunned by society, Yes,

343
00:19:25,640 --> 00:19:27,840
Speaker 2: just because you get you're going to go through all

344
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Speaker 2: that just for sex.

345
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Speaker 1: Right, right? Yeah, that's a lot of work a lot

346
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,120
Speaker 1: to give up. But it's not just the sex as well.

347
00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:40,359
Speaker 2: She just didn't understand. Yeah, yeah, you know later of course,

348
00:19:40,920 --> 00:19:43,560
Speaker 2: you know, whenever I would, I would bring boyfriends home

349
00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:46,120
Speaker 2: to meet her or whatever she was. Couldn't have been

350
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,440
Speaker 2: nicer to them and let one money when he was

351
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,560
Speaker 2: in trouble. Really, we just never discussed the romantic or

352
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Speaker 2: sexual aspect of the relationship.

353
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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so funny, it's so different. Can you imagine

354
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:02,000
Speaker 1: that we have lived this long that we have seen

355
00:20:02,560 --> 00:20:07,600
Speaker 1: such a change in the way homosexuality is presented in

356
00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,679
Speaker 1: mainstream media and in the culture now, which it was

357
00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:16,040
Speaker 1: just devoid. We had, like I keep telling people, like

358
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 1: there were no role models. What I remember first is

359
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 1: Billy Jean King denying that she was gay and Martina

360
00:20:23,359 --> 00:20:26,320
Speaker 1: denying because I was looking for gay role models and

361
00:20:26,400 --> 00:20:29,080
Speaker 1: I thought I saw them in those women. But then

362
00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,879
Speaker 1: you know, at ten, when I was watching TV in

363
00:20:31,920 --> 00:20:35,280
Speaker 1: seventy three, there they were saying that now they had

364
00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:38,879
Speaker 1: to At the time, it was terrifying, right, nobody knew

365
00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:40,880
Speaker 1: what to do or how to come out.

366
00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,400
Speaker 2: And in movies, you know, there are television there were

367
00:20:44,440 --> 00:20:48,800
Speaker 2: no role models or anyone you could watch in a

368
00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:53,320
Speaker 2: movie that wasn't just like a villain or a killer, right, yeah, yeah,

369
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 2: or a terrible victim. And that's of course what my

370
00:20:56,560 --> 00:20:59,120
Speaker 2: aunt was watching and just thinking, oh, I don't want

371
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Speaker 2: that for my kid.

372
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:04,399
Speaker 1: Of course. Of course, now I know that you had

373
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Speaker 1: two sisters, right, and you were very close to your

374
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Speaker 1: older one.

375
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Speaker 2: Well, both my sisters are older. I've once I have

376
00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:17,199
Speaker 2: sisters was two and a half years older than I have.

377
00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:20,239
Speaker 2: A sister's ten years older who it's I don't have

378
00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:24,440
Speaker 2: a close relationship with. But my I was extraordinarily close

379
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 2: with my middle sister, who just passed away in July.

380
00:21:27,119 --> 00:21:28,840
Speaker 1: And yeah, I was going to say, that must have

381
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Speaker 1: been horrible.

382
00:21:29,640 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 2: It's very difficult.

383
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:31,359
Speaker 1: I don't know.

384
00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,960
Speaker 2: I don't think I'll ever get over this one. Yeah.

385
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 2: We were so almost like empaths with each other, really

386
00:21:38,480 --> 00:21:42,200
Speaker 2: could feel what the other one was feeling from long distances.

387
00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:43,920
Speaker 2: I mean it was you know, I'm not that kind

388
00:21:43,960 --> 00:21:47,439
Speaker 2: of woo person, but right, so many instances where you know,

389
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,520
Speaker 2: where I would be walking down the street and suddenly

390
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,520
Speaker 2: feel it's kind of like kind of clutch in my heart.

391
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:57,560
Speaker 2: And then later I'd find out that my sister had fainted.

392
00:21:58,119 --> 00:21:59,879
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's wow.

393
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,440
Speaker 2: And we never you know, when we became the same age,

394
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 2: basically when I was sixteen and she was nineteen. You know,

395
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:08,600
Speaker 2: we used to fight as kids, you know, but we

396
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,000
Speaker 2: became sure age at sixteen and nineteen, and at that

397
00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:16,040
Speaker 2: point we never had a single moment of tension between us.

398
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:17,640
Speaker 2: I mean it's odd.

399
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,480
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, yeah, it's almost like you were twins, like.

400
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:23,960
Speaker 2: Twin's just not a moment of disagreement, just total just

401
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,080
Speaker 2: trying to protect each other, just love and protection. Yeah.

402
00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,360
Speaker 2: So I don't know, it's just very difficult. I I

403
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:32,880
Speaker 2: and I just don't know how to how to get

404
00:22:32,960 --> 00:22:36,320
Speaker 2: quite over this. I mean, time goes by and you know,

405
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,840
Speaker 2: but at the moment, it's still very fresh. And about

406
00:22:38,840 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 2: five times a day I reached for the phone like,

407
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 2: oh I got everything, Oh I got I mean, I'm

408
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 2: sure in an hour, I'm gonna say, oh I got

409
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 2: told her about what Rosie just said, you know, right right,

410
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,120
Speaker 2: I understand an afternoon their at one time.

411
00:22:50,560 --> 00:22:54,560
Speaker 1: Yes, I remember, it's so cute, adorable and you guys,

412
00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 1: you know, you guys uh really had that tweedl D

413
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,040
Speaker 1: and tweedled kind of finishing each other since.

414
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,679
Speaker 2: Well, yes, and we spent so much time growing up

415
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,880
Speaker 2: in the bathroom mirror, you know, doing faces and impersonations

416
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 2: for each other. And you know, my Betty Davis wasn't

417
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,000
Speaker 2: nearly as good as Sir James Gagney.

418
00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:20,720
Speaker 1: Your aunt as well has passed away. And that I

419
00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: read in the book that I didn't know that you

420
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:26,440
Speaker 1: were very close with Joan Rivers, that you like used

421
00:23:26,480 --> 00:23:28,719
Speaker 1: her as a surrogate mother kind of.

422
00:23:29,359 --> 00:23:31,800
Speaker 2: Well, yes, I mean I don't. I hope I don't

423
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 2: give the impression that you know, I was like the

424
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: closest thing in her. No, no, I was going to

425
00:23:36,200 --> 00:23:39,200
Speaker 2: I always think I was a second tier friend of her.

426
00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 1: That's okay.

427
00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 2: The second year is very good. Yeah, sat next to

428
00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,399
Speaker 2: her every year at Thanksgiving. Yeah right, So yeah, I

429
00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,159
Speaker 2: just adored But I get, you know, throughout my life,

430
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:52,159
Speaker 2: I wonder if this is happens with you, because you know,

431
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,840
Speaker 2: since we bonded over the fact that we lost our mother.

432
00:23:54,920 --> 00:23:58,919
Speaker 2: So yes, exactly, just get these big crushes on certain

433
00:23:59,000 --> 00:23:59,960
Speaker 2: kind of lady.

434
00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:01,760
Speaker 1: So do I.

435
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 2: I'm maternal and smart, and yeah, I just get big crushes.

436
00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:11,639
Speaker 2: And Joan was kind of number one, and you know

437
00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,680
Speaker 2: with her, I think most of her friends would say

438
00:24:14,720 --> 00:24:17,680
Speaker 2: that you felt so safe that if anything should ever

439
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:21,840
Speaker 2: happen to you, you know, she'd step in and fix it.

440
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I didn't have her on my show. I think

441
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:27,600
Speaker 1: I had her on once. But we got to know

442
00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,439
Speaker 1: each other at the end by going, you know, to

443
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,400
Speaker 1: theater when I was sort of done with my show

444
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: and just in New York, and and so I would

445
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: see her at every opening and every art gallery thing,

446
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 1: and so then we started talking. And she'd usually be

447
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 1: with Cindy Adams, who would do nothing but make fun

448
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: of my outfit the entire evening. So it was a

449
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,000
Speaker 1: lot of stress.

450
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:46,359
Speaker 3: You know.

451
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:51,000
Speaker 1: She's like, well, you couldn't find your gardening clothes, Like, okay,

452
00:24:51,040 --> 00:24:52,080
Speaker 1: all right, that's a good one.

453
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:54,280
Speaker 2: I kind of like that. In my book, I'd tell

454
00:24:54,280 --> 00:25:02,919
Speaker 2: about how we went to the lgbt H Synagogue. It

455
00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 2: was at the Javit Center. Basically there's a cole Ninja's

456
00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:10,200
Speaker 2: service and h and so I went with her and

457
00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:15,000
Speaker 2: was she's standing up for the entire thing, and uh,

458
00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,760
Speaker 2: I said, uh, I said. Afterwards, I said, it was

459
00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:22,640
Speaker 2: very touching when when that the old, that old lesbian,

460
00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,880
Speaker 2: the gray hair you know, was with joined the men

461
00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,440
Speaker 2: and carried the torah down the aisle. I was very

462
00:25:28,480 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 2: moved by that, and John said it'd be more moving

463
00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: if she washed her hair.

464
00:25:36,760 --> 00:25:40,119
Speaker 1: Well, you know there are people Kathy's like that. Kathy

465
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: Griffin has these wonderful salons, like the old time, you know,

466
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:48,320
Speaker 1: dames getting together in Hollywood, and she insists that you

467
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:50,160
Speaker 1: wear dress and makeup.

468
00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:51,400
Speaker 2: What do you do now?

469
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: I did? I wore like some version of a dress,

470
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,280
Speaker 1: but it was a dress. I had tights, but it

471
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 1: was a dress, and and I I went, you know,

472
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:04,080
Speaker 1: with lipstick. That was it. But my gosh, she said

473
00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: that I was banned for two of them for my

474
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:08,719
Speaker 1: dress in the in the one before. So you know,

475
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:10,959
Speaker 1: you got to really watch it. With some of these girls,

476
00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:14,440
Speaker 1: they really like the the whole look to be right.

477
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,200
Speaker 2: That reminds me of my friend. Kathy basically has custody

478
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,800
Speaker 2: of me. You know. She she's done my wigs for

479
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:23,320
Speaker 2: my whole career, and she was around the corner and

480
00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,720
Speaker 2: so she just takes care of me. And anyway she's

481
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 2: she's gay, and and it doesn't you know, just always

482
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,480
Speaker 2: always in pants and everything. And so we were gonna

483
00:26:33,560 --> 00:26:36,879
Speaker 2: I think it was for some event and I've been

484
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: my book party or something, and uh, I saw, so

485
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 2: what are you gonna wear?

486
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:42,280
Speaker 3: You know?

487
00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:45,480
Speaker 2: And and she was like, she's I can't wear a dress.

488
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,560
Speaker 2: Last The only time I've wore a dress was when

489
00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:53,360
Speaker 2: I borrowed yours. That's true.

490
00:26:54,760 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 1: War with Charles right after this, now talking about similarities

491
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:21,600
Speaker 1: between you and I. We both had a heart attack

492
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 1: and you ignored it just like I did?

493
00:27:25,280 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 2: Or did you ignore it yet?

494
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:27,159
Speaker 1: I ignored it.

495
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: I thought I threw my back out, yeah, chiropractor.

496
00:27:31,800 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: Right, yeah, at least you went somewhere. I stayed home

497
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: for three days, going, my arm's really hurt, and everyone going,

498
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: you look so pale, and me falling asleep and sweating

499
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,359
Speaker 1: and every single soign you could google I had. But

500
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 1: I went back to sleep, and you know, the doctor

501
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:49,120
Speaker 1: said you were like ten minutes away from being dead.

502
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:51,920
Speaker 1: What did you do? Tell everybody what you did when

503
00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:54,960
Speaker 1: you thought it was a chiropractic injury.

504
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:57,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, I thought, oh, I put my back out, and

505
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:01,680
Speaker 2: once the chiropractor cracked me through places, and and I

506
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 2: told him that this guy, I said, this weird pain

507
00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: down my arm, and right he does to crack you,

508
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: you know. And then months went by and I started

509
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:13,200
Speaker 2: losing all his weight, and I had the good days

510
00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:16,840
Speaker 2: and not so good days. And finally, you know, I

511
00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,280
Speaker 2: always assume I have cancer too. I stubbed my toe.

512
00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: It's cancer me too, me too.

513
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 2: Anyway, I finally I called my friend the allergist to

514
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 2: Barry Cone and my plays inspired by and whatever. I

515
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: told him. He said, uh uh, he said, a hold,

516
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,240
Speaker 2: I'm putting on hold. He called a gas ventrologist at

517
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 2: wild Cornell, who then said he'd see me right away.

518
00:28:38,920 --> 00:28:42,200
Speaker 2: And I went there and and this young gas ventrologists said,

519
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 2: you know, so let me just listen to your heart.

520
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:46,080
Speaker 2: And he had there's a weird look on his face.

521
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 2: He said, you know, he said, I think you need

522
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:53,400
Speaker 2: to go to the fourth floor the foe right away cardiology,

523
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:56,800
Speaker 2: so you have an EKG and and echo or whatever.

524
00:28:56,840 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 2: And so I went down to the fourth floor and

525
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: waiting room was filled up with people. And now I

526
00:29:02,720 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: had just been nominated for a Tony Award, you know,

527
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 2: so I thought, I thought, you know, they put they

528
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:09,880
Speaker 2: rushed me through. I thought it was because I'm a celebrity.

529
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:12,360
Speaker 1: You know, of course you're well known, well known.

530
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, they thought I was near death right and they

531
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: give me the the echo, I mean, the room starts

532
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: filling up with people, and I tho, oh God, I

533
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 2: am in trouble. And indeed I'd had aortic aneurysm, which

534
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:29,120
Speaker 2: would kill Jonathan Larson and John Ritter, you know, within

535
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: an hour. But I ran around for three months. And

536
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 2: so then they did, you know, the doctors said, you know,

537
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 2: took me in her little room and said you can't

538
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: go home. You have to have open heart surgery within

539
00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:46,840
Speaker 2: the next forty eight hours and you can't go home.

540
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,240
Speaker 2: And this the surgeon was right there, you know, and

541
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 2: the scrubs, and I guess he thought I might get

542
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,080
Speaker 2: the hell out of there. And he said, mister Bush,

543
00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 2: what you've had kills most people within the hour. You

544
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 2: were lucky ones. You will not be lucky again. That's

545
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 2: I'm with you. I'm coming, I'm go ahead, scrub me

546
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 2: in there, you go, ready to go. And that was

547
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 2: I have to say that. This is that was in

548
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:12,480
Speaker 2: two thousand and one, and it really did divide my

549
00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 2: life in half. And in a certain sense, you know,

550
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,640
Speaker 2: the feelings I had as a child that were you know,

551
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:21,239
Speaker 2: have been kind of fragile all of a sudden, kind

552
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: of came back in a way as I don't know

553
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,840
Speaker 2: if I've ever really been quite. I had the same

554
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 2: arrogance of oh my body, you know, nothing's gonna happen exactly.

555
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: Another surgery, uh this last December. Another heart one, Yeah,

556
00:30:38,640 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: do you have this time? The already the ortic valve

557
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 2: is gorgeous, but now the micro valve is a problem.

558
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 2: And it wasn't nearly as dramatic, you know, but but

559
00:30:48,720 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 2: I had, you know, they cracked me open. And and

560
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 2: it was and I said to the when I met

561
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: with the surgeon, it was, uh, the head of my

562
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:58,120
Speaker 2: old doctor, old surgeon, doctor Geordi, is now the head

563
00:30:58,160 --> 00:31:01,120
Speaker 2: of the whole you know, cardiac you know surgery. Think

564
00:31:01,160 --> 00:31:03,760
Speaker 2: it a wild carnell. And I said, now, doctor Jardy,

565
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 2: I said, in my world of showbiz, it's always best

566
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 2: from the director of the original picture directs the sequel.

567
00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,440
Speaker 2: I will do the next surgery. And then it was

568
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:16,360
Speaker 2: kind of I thought it was a little weird. So

569
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,160
Speaker 2: I go in the hospital and then you know, after

570
00:31:19,240 --> 00:31:22,080
Speaker 2: I get out of you know, surgery, and I wake up,

571
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,840
Speaker 2: you know, the doctors all come in the room and

572
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 2: and doctor Jardy said it it's all went well, we

573
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 2: were able to uh we're able to replace. Were able

574
00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:33,920
Speaker 2: to repair the Michel valve. Now replace it. And then

575
00:31:33,920 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: he said, you know, and while I was in there,

576
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:39,080
Speaker 2: I have to tell you my work from two thousand

577
00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,160
Speaker 2: one really held up. I mean it really looks great.

578
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:43,840
Speaker 2: I'm so happy for you.

579
00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:47,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and for me. But now do you think

580
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:50,400
Speaker 1: do you spend a lot of time thinking why did

581
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: I survive that?

582
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: Uh?

583
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: No, I do.

584
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 2: I spend a lot time really what is a guilt feeling?

585
00:31:59,360 --> 00:31:59,520
Speaker 3: Well?

586
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: It was days instead of three months for me? But

587
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 1: you know when I got there, like the doctor was like,

588
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:07,480
Speaker 1: why didn't you come in? You had you know, the

589
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:11,440
Speaker 1: pain must have been unbelievable. Wow did you not? You know?

590
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,880
Speaker 1: And and I really thought about it, and I thought,

591
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,480
Speaker 1: you know, it's so weird, Charles. What was going through

592
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: my head is what if the ambulance really needs to

593
00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:23,720
Speaker 1: go to an accident and I'm just you know, having

594
00:32:23,760 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: a panic attack. What if, like I kept thinking, I

595
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: wasn't deserving of going to get checked. Isn't that weird?

596
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:33,560
Speaker 2: That's very weird?

597
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 3: All right?

598
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: But then as I did in a research about women's

599
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:41,880
Speaker 1: heart attacks afterwards, I found it's a commonplace that women

600
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: are so kind of subjugated that, you know, men have

601
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:47,520
Speaker 1: a pain in their chest, they're in the er before

602
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:49,200
Speaker 1: they you know, finish their coffee.

603
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: Right.

604
00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:52,080
Speaker 1: Women have a pain in their chest, they call their friend.

605
00:32:52,160 --> 00:32:54,640
Speaker 1: I called Linda Richmond and I said to her, hear

606
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: my symptoms. Do you think I'm having a heart attack?

607
00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,920
Speaker 1: I went to therapy said to my therapist, do you

608
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 1: think I'm having a heart attack? I slept two nights

609
00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,960
Speaker 1: with full heart attack, with one hundred percent blockage of

610
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:09,640
Speaker 1: my lad And what they told me in the hospital,

611
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: Martin Luther King's eldest daughter had the same one that

612
00:33:14,360 --> 00:33:17,040
Speaker 1: I had, the widow Maker, and she was dead before

613
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: she hit the ground. And they kept saying that to me,

614
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: and I was like, yeah, how did I how did

615
00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: I do it? And was my mom involved? And yeah,

616
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like I kind of have magical thinking

617
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: still when it comes to death.

618
00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And I actually I had a kind of

619
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 2: moment interesting moment when uh in the the first time

620
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 2: in two thousand and one where oh, because when I

621
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: got when I got back from the hospital after a week,

622
00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 2: I was I was home and I was watching TV

623
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 2: and I had this weird episode where suddenly I'd complete

624
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: amnesia of the of what had happened. And I was

625
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: home a week and I know I looked down my

626
00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,560
Speaker 2: chest and so these bandages and I said, what the

627
00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:01,600
Speaker 2: hell is this? I started pulling them off, and my

628
00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,480
Speaker 2: friend Carl was there and he said, you had heart surgery.

629
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,560
Speaker 2: You know, a week could go and or a couple

630
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,319
Speaker 2: of weeks ago. Anyway, after about an hour, it all

631
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: came back to me. But I went back into the

632
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,080
Speaker 2: hospital and I think it turned out as like some

633
00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:19,000
Speaker 2: little bit of anesthesias, something floats through your brain or something.

634
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 2: But anyway, when I was in the hospital again to

635
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:25,520
Speaker 2: check see if I had a stroke or something, they

636
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,600
Speaker 2: put me in this kind of MRI machine, and I

637
00:34:28,600 --> 00:34:31,360
Speaker 2: really did have this very Spielbergian moment all of someone

638
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,279
Speaker 2: because we're It's very out of a character for me,

639
00:34:35,320 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 2: but I did feel like the goats, some of the

640
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 2: spirits of my mother and my aunts were kind of

641
00:34:40,680 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 2: floating above and I kind of I was so depressed.

642
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 2: I was just in such a low. I said, I

643
00:34:47,239 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 2: decided to surrender. I just and I did feel this

644
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:54,920
Speaker 2: incredible feeling of love, and you know, I'm just not

645
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 2: that kind of you know, I'm really not that kind

646
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,880
Speaker 2: of person, but I just feel this extraordinary moment.

647
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,919
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, what what do you think happens after we die?

648
00:35:04,280 --> 00:35:07,080
Speaker 1: Do you think we linger to? Think our spirits are

649
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:10,200
Speaker 1: accessible to earthling? Still?

650
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 2: What do you think I love to I'd love to

651
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 2: feel all this same. I you know, I was raised

652
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:21,480
Speaker 2: no religion at all, absolutely, and yeah, I generally think

653
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:23,439
Speaker 2: nothing happens, but I should like to believe it.

654
00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:26,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too, I'd like to believe it sometimes I do.

655
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:29,920
Speaker 1: Sometimes I get like carried away in the in the

656
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:34,279
Speaker 1: Magical Mystical. I love the part in the book where

657
00:35:34,280 --> 00:35:38,080
Speaker 1: you talked about AIDS and the people you lost and

658
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 1: what it was like living through that must have been

659
00:35:40,719 --> 00:35:41,719
Speaker 1: very hard, that part.

660
00:35:42,719 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, it really for my generation, it's it's a

661
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 2: bit of our World War two and we kind of

662
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:53,120
Speaker 2: talk about it. I think to younger people about you know,

663
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:57,600
Speaker 2: those days, and uh, yeah, it's just it was it

664
00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: was odd period because so instance, my career had finally

665
00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:05,000
Speaker 2: taken off and and uh and it was like the

666
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 2: best of times, the worst of times. And then in

667
00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:10,080
Speaker 2: our our you know, I had my own theater company

668
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 2: for seven years and you know, and we had three

669
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:19,080
Speaker 2: of our you know, our family died so terribly and

670
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 2: you know, we just the memorial service really was our

671
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:27,280
Speaker 2: art form. Yeah, we gave completely Yeah.

672
00:36:27,360 --> 00:36:31,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and and all you know, the lesbians uh taking

673
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 1: care of their sick brothers. Like Laurie always talks about

674
00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,240
Speaker 1: making that movie, you know, like where the lesbians were

675
00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:41,239
Speaker 1: right on the front line with everyone. You know.

676
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,839
Speaker 2: And this is so true because so so often gay

677
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 2: men and gay women have so little to do with

678
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 2: each other.

679
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:50,320
Speaker 1: And in the olden days, like when we were kids,

680
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:55,040
Speaker 1: but nowadays it's all gender queer fluid, right, everybody's together.

681
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Back in the day, it really was so separated

682
00:36:57,400 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 2: and rather and both sides were rather critical of each

683
00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: other exactly.

684
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:02,920
Speaker 1: I remember that vividly.

685
00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:07,600
Speaker 2: Crisis when there's so many instances of gay women coming

686
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 2: I'm getting very choked up talking about it. Yeah, just

687
00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,040
Speaker 2: gay women coming in and stepping up and a forefriend

688
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:16,879
Speaker 2: of caring for these gay men.

689
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:19,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a story I'd love to be a part

690
00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:23,719
Speaker 1: of telling. Well, Charles, you're delightful. I love you very much.

691
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: I always have. You're one of the best playwrights around.

692
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:30,960
Speaker 1: You're an amazing actor, You're a wonderful person and performer

693
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,680
Speaker 1: and friend, and I just want to thank you for

694
00:37:34,719 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 1: being in my life and for saying yes to my

695
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:42,799
Speaker 1: crazy desire to produce Taboo. And you know your book

696
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:47,839
Speaker 1: leading Lady. Everyone go get it Charles Bush, and you'll

697
00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: love it. It's a wonderful, wonderful story of a very

698
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 1: full and interesting life of an artist. And you certainly are.

699
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,480
Speaker 2: Oh, thank you, ro It's so good to see you.

700
00:37:58,520 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 2: And we have wonderful men memories together. Totally, I've mellowed

701
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,160
Speaker 2: and I can really enjoy. I can think, I can

702
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:10,319
Speaker 2: appreciate Taboo, and I can also just yeah, just think

703
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 2: about that extraordinary cast of young people.

704
00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,319
Speaker 1: Yes they were. There were wonderful moments, and you know

705
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,280
Speaker 1: it was chaos, though, make no mistake.

706
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:21,120
Speaker 2: We survived.

707
00:38:21,440 --> 00:38:22,680
Speaker 1: We survived, damn it.

708
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:23,399
Speaker 3: Well.

709
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:25,440
Speaker 1: I love you. Take care of yourself, give my love

710
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 1: to everybody and your MISHBOOKA. I sure will, all right, honey,

711
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:31,880
Speaker 1: take care. We'll be back with questions from you, the

712
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:56,600
Speaker 1: lovely listeners, So don't go away. Charles Bush is really

713
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: a unique individual and I love him so much. I

714
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that. Now let's hear from you, the listeners.

715
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,400
Speaker 1: I hear we got someone from Long Island. Hit it.

716
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 3: Hi, Rosie, this is Jennifer from Long Island, New York.

717
00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:13,759
Speaker 3: I always felt like I connected with you because we're

718
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 3: both from the same area of Long Island. Anyway, I

719
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 3: really enjoyed watching your show in the nineties. Even though

720
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 3: I was in college and grad school at the time

721
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 3: and I didn't have a lot of time to watch TV.

722
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 3: I always made sure I taped your show. I'm aging

723
00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:34,240
Speaker 3: myself there, but I always made sure I taped your show,

724
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 3: especially when there was a guest that I really liked,

725
00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 3: or someone from daytime TV or a Broadway performance. I

726
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 3: loved watching your show then, and I'm really enjoying reconnecting

727
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:52,040
Speaker 3: with you on your podcast with your authenticity. Anyway, I

728
00:39:52,080 --> 00:39:56,040
Speaker 3: had a question about the guide dog experience that you've

729
00:39:56,080 --> 00:40:00,120
Speaker 3: been having. I wanted to know more about that. I

730
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:05,440
Speaker 3: have physical issues myself, so I always think about getting

731
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,040
Speaker 3: a guide dog in the future. Right now, I have

732
00:40:08,120 --> 00:40:11,080
Speaker 3: a little cat that I don't think would appreciate that

733
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 3: very much, but my dentist actually has a therapy dog

734
00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:20,880
Speaker 3: in the dentist's office, which is the greatest thing ever.

735
00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:26,560
Speaker 3: And I just always thought about getting my own guide

736
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 3: dog or therapy dog in the future. So if you

737
00:40:29,239 --> 00:40:33,200
Speaker 3: could talk more about that experience, that would be great. Anyway,

738
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:35,080
Speaker 3: Thanks Rosie, hope you have a good day.

739
00:40:35,560 --> 00:40:40,520
Speaker 1: Bye. Thanks Jennifer from Long Island. I'm from Comac Exit

740
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:43,960
Speaker 1: fifty two. I wonder where you were if you were

741
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: ever at the flea market at the Long Island Arena,

742
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:51,440
Speaker 1: because I was there often buying all my school clothes. Listen.

743
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:54,520
Speaker 1: I'm in the middle of my experience with Guide Dogs

744
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:59,000
Speaker 1: of America. I was actually visiting someone who was in

745
00:40:59,080 --> 00:41:01,880
Speaker 1: prison and I saw the guide dogs. There was like

746
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:05,120
Speaker 1: a little tour and I saw the guide dogs being

747
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: trained by the prisoners, and I started to talk to them,

748
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:12,719
Speaker 1: and in the group was the man who is the

749
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:16,399
Speaker 1: president of Guide Dogs of America, a lovely man, and

750
00:41:16,440 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 1: we talked for a while and I told him that

751
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 1: I had an autistic child, and he said, you know

752
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: that we provide dogs for autistic kids for free, and

753
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 1: I was like what. And they're trained to comfort the child,

754
00:41:35,040 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 1: to apply deep pressure when the child is maybe out

755
00:41:39,800 --> 00:41:42,960
Speaker 1: of control or spinning or stimming in a way that's

756
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:47,720
Speaker 1: dangerous for them. They work with children who Elope, although

757
00:41:47,719 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 1: my child does not Elope, which is you know, running

758
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:56,400
Speaker 1: away without understanding the danger. But they do so much

759
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: for autistic kids. They do obviously for people who are blind,

760
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 1: they do for people who suffer from PTSD, especially veterans.

761
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,399
Speaker 1: I'm not sure what the qualifications or the rules are

762
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,200
Speaker 1: for people who are looking to get one. I only

763
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:20,320
Speaker 1: know for autistic children, and it's a very long application process,

764
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 1: as you would imagine, it's a long waiting period. We

765
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:26,080
Speaker 1: don't know yet if we've been approved. We're going to

766
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: wait to find out. And you know, they go by need,

767
00:42:29,160 --> 00:42:32,600
Speaker 1: so every child has has different needs, and every kid

768
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: with autism is unique to themselves, and so we'll see.

769
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,439
Speaker 1: We hope that we get one, but even if we don't,

770
00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 1: we're going to continue to support the organization. And they

771
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 1: also have emotional support dogs, which are not as highly

772
00:42:47,320 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: trained obviously as the guide dogs, but Guide Dogs for America.

773
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:55,440
Speaker 1: Look it up on Google. Good luck to you. I

774
00:42:55,480 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 1: wish you all the best, and thanks for listening to

775
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 1: me when you were in college. Fantastic. We got one

776
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:05,120
Speaker 1: more from Pennsylvania. I hear hit it.

777
00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:09,879
Speaker 4: Hey ro this is Jen forty one living in Pennsylvania,

778
00:43:11,000 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 4: so listen. When I had just turned eleven, my mom

779
00:43:15,480 --> 00:43:19,520
Speaker 4: let my brother, my friend and I go to see

780
00:43:19,560 --> 00:43:23,880
Speaker 4: a Leather Own at the discount movie theater Philly called

781
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 4: the Devin. I had been wanting to see it, but

782
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:30,480
Speaker 4: she was a single mom, so she was not trying

783
00:43:30,480 --> 00:43:33,160
Speaker 4: to pay those regular movie prices.

784
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 1: She drove us there, dropped us off, picked us up.

785
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 4: Was the first time we were able to go to

786
00:43:38,560 --> 00:43:42,000
Speaker 4: the movies completely by ourselves, with no adult We thought

787
00:43:42,040 --> 00:43:47,200
Speaker 4: we were so cool, fell in love with the movie.

788
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 4: It was really empowering to me as a young female.

789
00:43:52,719 --> 00:43:55,920
Speaker 4: I felt very seen. Couldn't really figure it out at

790
00:43:55,960 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 4: the time, but I now know why. And also I

791
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:03,480
Speaker 4: was softball player and it just made me feel like, yeah,

792
00:44:03,520 --> 00:44:06,640
Speaker 4: of course women and girls can do anything and everything.

793
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:09,279
Speaker 4: Why did it take a war for women to be

794
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 4: able to play? But I got the movie on VHS

795
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:16,680
Speaker 4: and then on dbd if. I really do know almost

796
00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:21,359
Speaker 4: every word, so been a fan. Obviously watched your show

797
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:27,919
Speaker 4: because I'm of that age. So my question for you is,

798
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:30,399
Speaker 4: my wife and I just purchased a home a few

799
00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,840
Speaker 4: weeks ago, pretty exciting, and we officially moved in a

800
00:44:32,840 --> 00:44:35,920
Speaker 4: few days. We've been at the new house doing work

801
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,839
Speaker 4: to get it ready. So my question for you is

802
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:41,640
Speaker 4: what do you like to do when you move into

803
00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:43,719
Speaker 4: a new home to make it your own?

804
00:44:44,560 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: What are your priorities?

805
00:44:46,280 --> 00:44:47,239
Speaker 2: Is it your bedroom?

806
00:44:47,719 --> 00:44:50,839
Speaker 4: I mean obviously it would be right now like Dakota's room,

807
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:54,359
Speaker 4: the kids rooms? But is it your art space? And

808
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 4: also you got a lot of money, so people probably

809
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:00,319
Speaker 4: do all the things for you. But is is there

810
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,719
Speaker 4: anything you like to do for yourself? Do you like

811
00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 4: to peet a room by yourself? I don't know, go

812
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 4: out and buy some furniture, put it together. So yeah,

813
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:12,600
Speaker 4: what do you like to do to make a home

814
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:17,480
Speaker 4: your own? Appreciate you, Rosie, thanks for being so open

815
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:19,719
Speaker 4: and authentically you.

816
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:24,440
Speaker 1: Thank you. Jen forty one from Pennsylvania. That's very very sweet.

817
00:45:24,840 --> 00:45:28,120
Speaker 1: Eleven years old. Go into the movies by yourself? I

818
00:45:28,200 --> 00:45:33,439
Speaker 1: remember that, feeling completely and feeling like such a big kid. Right.

819
00:45:33,960 --> 00:45:35,959
Speaker 1: But what do I like to do in a home?

820
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,640
Speaker 1: I like to get it to smell good number one,

821
00:45:39,239 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: So I like other people schmutz out of it. So

822
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:46,000
Speaker 1: whether that be sanding and not myself, always people to

823
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 1: do this for me. Standing and staining the floor is

824
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:53,239
Speaker 1: a different way, or putting in hardwood floors everywhere, or

825
00:45:53,800 --> 00:45:56,880
Speaker 1: matching make sure the wood matches in the in the house.

826
00:45:57,040 --> 00:46:01,479
Speaker 1: And the smell is so vital, you know. I love

827
00:46:03,040 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 1: candles that are really well made, and they smell like

828
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:13,719
Speaker 1: the fall, and they smell like like you're in a

829
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 1: safe and warm place. It's definitely the smell. I love

830
00:46:18,719 --> 00:46:22,800
Speaker 1: really nice comforters and blankets. I now have a weighted

831
00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: blanket Dakota. We got one for Dakota and they did

832
00:46:28,600 --> 00:46:31,480
Speaker 1: not like it at all, and so it was late

833
00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: at night in the bed and I just pulled it

834
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 1: over on me and now I can't sleep without it.

835
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:41,839
Speaker 1: But I like nice, nice blankets. And you know, I

836
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,399
Speaker 1: like my house to be clean. My house as a kid,

837
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:48,040
Speaker 1: you know, motherless, it was not very clean, and I

838
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 1: like it to be clean. I have people come over

839
00:46:49,880 --> 00:46:53,000
Speaker 1: go how your whole life of having this many kids?

840
00:46:53,000 --> 00:46:55,839
Speaker 1: Can you have white furniture? And first time I ever

841
00:46:55,840 --> 00:46:58,799
Speaker 1: went into somebody's house that was really rich was Madonna's

842
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,440
Speaker 1: in Florida, and she had all white furniture and it

843
00:47:02,480 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 1: was gorgeous. And I remember thinking, if I ever get

844
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:07,799
Speaker 1: rich one day, I'm going to have a house like this.

845
00:47:08,000 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: So all of my taste in that, I think comes

846
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: from seeing a real live house like that looked like

847
00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: a magazine, and figuring out as I got older and

848
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,560
Speaker 1: more successful, that I could in fact have that. And

849
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,840
Speaker 1: so I like to create that for my family, for

850
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,120
Speaker 1: my children, for myself, thank you, Jenna. And during my

851
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 1: free time, I like to do art and craft, and

852
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 1: so this wonderful room here where I do my podcast

853
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:40,759
Speaker 1: is also going to become the craft room. That's what

854
00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 1: I've decided. Hey, listen, if you want to leave a comment,

855
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: send a voice memo, record it and send it to

856
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:50,520
Speaker 1: Onward Rosie at gmail dot com. We look forward to

857
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,919
Speaker 1: your thoughts and questions and comments, and next week join

858
00:47:54,000 --> 00:48:00,280
Speaker 1: me with award winning director, screenwriter, and groundbreaking filmmaker Cheryldny.

859
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,800
Speaker 1: Like many artists, Cheryl could not find within the existing

860
00:48:03,920 --> 00:48:07,920
Speaker 1: framework anywhere that she was represented. So she made a

861
00:48:07,960 --> 00:48:11,560
Speaker 1: new path that was so necessary, not only for herself

862
00:48:11,640 --> 00:48:15,440
Speaker 1: but for so many others. She's a groundbreaking independent filmmaker,

863
00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 1: and she's African American, she's gay, she's smart, she's brilliant,

864
00:48:22,280 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: and I loved talking to her. So look for that.

865
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,560
Speaker 1: Till then, everyone, do your best, keep your heart bubble wrapped.

866
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,520
Speaker 1: Please onward people, Onward