1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:06,479 Speaker 1: Today on the bright Side. What do Elizabeth, Gilbert Reese, Witherspoon, 2 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: and Doughcy have in common. They've all done the artist's way. 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,760 Speaker 1: The author and godmother of creativity, Julia Cameron is with 4 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: us today. She's helped millions unblock their creativity, embrace their 5 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: inner artists, and become one with the creative force. 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 2: Well, I think that morning Pages teach us to listen 7 00:00:27,040 --> 00:00:31,160 Speaker 2: to our inner voice. That's the voice in your soul 8 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:36,160 Speaker 2: which says to you you're enough, you can try. And 9 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:41,640 Speaker 2: I think that it is in trying that we have breakthroughs. 10 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:44,640 Speaker 1: I'm Simone Boyce and this is the bright Side from 11 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: Hello Sunshine, Welcome back to the bright Side. I am 12 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:52,440 Speaker 1: so happier here today to hear this conversation. As I 13 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,920 Speaker 1: was getting ready for today's episode, I was reminded of 14 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: this little girl I once knew who was obsessed with 15 00:00:58,960 --> 00:01:05,080 Speaker 1: drawing castles, big castles, small castles, gray castles, Gothic castles. 16 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: Her sketches varied in style and scale, but they always 17 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 1: had a few things in common. A couple of turrets, 18 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: at least two towers, and always always a mote. I mean, 19 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: come on, she had standards so in kindergarten. This girl 20 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 1: drew so many castles that everyone started calling her the 21 00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: castle girl. And then one day, out of the blue, 22 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: she just stopped. If you guessed that little girl was me, 23 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: you'd be right, because as I got older, I played 24 00:01:36,440 --> 00:01:41,119 Speaker 1: less and strayed further and further away from that pure, 25 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: childlike creative essence. I convinced myself that the predictable path 26 00:01:46,600 --> 00:01:49,240 Speaker 1: was safer than the brave one. So I don't know, 27 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,920 Speaker 1: maybe you're listening and you're thinking this feels familiar to you. 28 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: Have you ever prioritized security over creativity, or perhaps thought 29 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 1: that being creative was just a kid thing? Or have 30 00:02:01,760 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 1: you chosen the expected path over the one that kind 31 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,600 Speaker 1: of scares your heart a little? Well, our guest today, 32 00:02:09,200 --> 00:02:12,560 Speaker 1: Julia Cameron, has spent her life helping people come back 33 00:02:12,560 --> 00:02:15,800 Speaker 1: to their creativity and sense of play, because she says, 34 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:20,080 Speaker 1: our internal artist is always our creative child. She's the 35 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: author of the defining text on creativity, The Artist's Way. 36 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: Put it this way, your favorite actor, musician, or filmmaker 37 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 1: has probably done The Artist's Way. It's a twelve week 38 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: odyssey that involves daily journaling, artist dates, and a whole 39 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,079 Speaker 1: lot of introspection. So today you're going to hear her 40 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: expand on how she created the Artist's Way, her own 41 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: artist journey, and also how we can push through seasons 42 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,960 Speaker 1: of drought and even sucker punch our creative bullies. I 43 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,880 Speaker 1: hope today's conversation reminds you that you can always go 44 00:02:53,040 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 1: back to the drawing board. Let's get into it, Julia Cameron, 45 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:02,840 Speaker 1: Welcome to the bright Side. 46 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 3: Thank you. It's good to be here. 47 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 1: It is such an honor to have you, and we're 48 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,359 Speaker 1: here to talk about the Daily Artist's Way three hundred 49 00:03:11,360 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: and sixty six Meditations for Creative Living, which is an 50 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 1: updated version of your renowned book, The Artists Way. Can 51 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:23,120 Speaker 1: you start by explaining the purpose of the Artist's Way? 52 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 3: Ahah. 53 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,560 Speaker 2: The purpose of the Artist's Way is to awaken the 54 00:03:27,639 --> 00:03:29,000 Speaker 2: creativity within us. 55 00:03:29,080 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: All well, there are several transformative exercises in the original 56 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: Artists Way, and I want to talk about the original 57 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: text of The Artist Way for just a little while. 58 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 1: You have exercises where you write out a list of 59 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 1: things that you've always wanted to do but never thought 60 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 1: you could do. You have exercises where you suggest that 61 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: we take ourselves on artist dates and do fun activities 62 00:03:57,480 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 1: simply for the sake of nurturing our inner art artist. 63 00:04:01,040 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 1: And you also talk about the morning pages. You say 64 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: that's where it all starts. Would you explain what the 65 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 1: morning pages are and why that is the foundation for 66 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:11,480 Speaker 1: the artist's way. 67 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 2: Okay, morning pages are three pages of longhand morning writing 68 00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: about absolutely anything. They are where we tell the universe 69 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,480 Speaker 2: this is what I like, this is what I don't like, 70 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,400 Speaker 2: This is what I want more of, this is what 71 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 2: I want less of. 72 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:36,360 Speaker 3: It's as if you're. 73 00:04:36,240 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 2: Sending a telegram to the universe in order to let 74 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 2: it know your precise coordinates, where you are really how 75 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 2: you actually feel. It's a note from your authentic self. 76 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:59,440 Speaker 2: I found I was writing morning pages as a sense 77 00:04:59,520 --> 00:05:04,320 Speaker 2: of wi witness to myself. Morning pages keep you from 78 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:10,800 Speaker 2: being lonely. They give you a place to speculate, to vent, 79 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:17,240 Speaker 2: to find yourself, saying to yourself, why I didn't know 80 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 2: I felt like that. As you discover more and more 81 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:28,279 Speaker 2: of your authentic self, you find yourself feeling a sense 82 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 2: of connection, a sense of feeling productive. 83 00:05:35,160 --> 00:05:40,120 Speaker 3: You begin to feel a sense of fun. 84 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: I'll be honest, and you actually talk about this in 85 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:48,600 Speaker 1: your book. When I first read the concept of morning pages, 86 00:05:48,720 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: I thought to myself, what am I going to write 87 00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: about for three pages? That's a lot. And then when 88 00:05:54,760 --> 00:05:59,200 Speaker 1: you allow yourself to accept this invitation into your subconscious 89 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,600 Speaker 1: and it's just stream of consciousness writing all of this, 90 00:06:04,320 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: all these revelations just pour out, and it's actually a 91 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: lot easier than I thought it would be. 92 00:06:10,200 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 3: Yes, I think. 93 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 2: That when people first read about morning pages, they think 94 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:22,920 Speaker 2: that's fine for other people, but I can't see myself 95 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:23,640 Speaker 2: doing it. 96 00:06:24,160 --> 00:06:25,279 Speaker 3: Then they start. 97 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 2: What they find when they start is that they are enticed. 98 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,160 Speaker 2: They are enticed into revelation. 99 00:06:34,839 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: And I noticed something as I was flipping through my 100 00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:39,840 Speaker 1: copy of The Artists Way last night. I noticed that 101 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:43,160 Speaker 1: each chapter of The Artist Way is less about creating 102 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: and more about recovering. It is about recovering a sense 103 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:51,119 Speaker 1: of identity, recovering a sense of possibility. And that also 104 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: has roots in twelve step programs in sobriety, which you 105 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 1: have been a huge champion of. It seems to me 106 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:01,679 Speaker 1: like creativity, from your perspective, is something that we all 107 00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 1: have and then lose at some point. What do we 108 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: lose and who takes it from us? 109 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 3: Well? 110 00:07:07,800 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 2: I think we lose a sense of connection. We lose 111 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:19,680 Speaker 2: a sense of possibility, We lose a sense of the 112 00:07:19,720 --> 00:07:24,280 Speaker 2: probability that we are able to create. I think it 113 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 2: comes down to having an experience of negativity. When we 114 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 2: first broach the idea that, let's say we want to 115 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: be a writer, the parental voice says, don't you think 116 00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:56,600 Speaker 2: you might need something to fall back on? Having that teacher, parent, 117 00:07:57,480 --> 00:08:01,680 Speaker 2: even a sibling can be a name. Of course, when 118 00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:07,120 Speaker 2: we encounter this negativity, we don't stand up for ourselves. 119 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 2: We don't say, wait a minute, I know I can 120 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:17,800 Speaker 2: do this. Instead, we say, oh, I guess I was 121 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 2: getting a little bit too big for my breches. 122 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:24,400 Speaker 1: You actually say that our internal artist is always our 123 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:29,480 Speaker 1: creative child. Is there something to the idea that the 124 00:08:29,560 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 1: hobby or the interest that we fell in love with 125 00:08:31,760 --> 00:08:35,559 Speaker 1: as kids is the purest expression of our creative ambitions. 126 00:08:36,160 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: I think that we find ourselves remembering dreams, remembering aspirations, 127 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 2: remembering hope that when we remember, we get a little 128 00:08:55,240 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 2: bit excited and we think, oh, this is a wonderful 129 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 2: thing and it's mine. 130 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:07,880 Speaker 1: How would you describe yourself as a child. 131 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:11,079 Speaker 3: I was very curious. 132 00:09:12,200 --> 00:09:19,400 Speaker 2: I had a feeling a possibility and I came from 133 00:09:19,400 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 2: a big family, and I was taught that when I 134 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 2: learned something, I should teach it to one of my siblings. 135 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,680 Speaker 2: And I feel like that's the root of the artist's way, 136 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: that it came from tools that I learned, and then 137 00:09:40,000 --> 00:09:47,200 Speaker 2: I thought, oh, I better spread them. I gave them 138 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,280 Speaker 2: to what I thought of as a small group of people, 139 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:56,760 Speaker 2: and it turns out to be a much larger group 140 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 2: of people than I had imagined. 141 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:03,680 Speaker 1: Would you tell me more about how you learned those tools? 142 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 1: How did they come to you? 143 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 3: Well? 144 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,199 Speaker 2: I think they came to me through intuition. They came 145 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:18,760 Speaker 2: to me through hunches. They came to me through thinking, Oh, 146 00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:25,440 Speaker 2: this works for me, like the Morning Pages, and maybe 147 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:31,760 Speaker 2: it'll work for others. So it was the hunch that 148 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 2: something that had worked for me would indeed work for others. 149 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:42,680 Speaker 2: I didn't have a mentor, I didn't have a teacher 150 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:48,240 Speaker 2: telling me the tools, but I had an intuition that 151 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:49,720 Speaker 2: the tools would work. 152 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:54,240 Speaker 1: Did you ever have anyone kind of shake the creative 153 00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 1: hope out of you or has it always been there 154 00:10:56,840 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: all along? 155 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:01,040 Speaker 2: I think it's always been there. I think that I'm 156 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:05,520 Speaker 2: lucky to come from a family where creativity was encouraged. 157 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:10,720 Speaker 2: I have an older sister who's a writer. I have 158 00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 2: a younger brother who's a musician. I have another younger 159 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 2: brother who's a musician. I have a younger sister who 160 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 2: is an artist. 161 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 3: Our parents never. 162 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:32,160 Speaker 2: Said to us, oh, I think you should cut that out. Instead, 163 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 2: they said, oh, let me see what it is you 164 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:42,800 Speaker 2: can do. So I had seven siblings who are all 165 00:11:43,520 --> 00:11:45,400 Speaker 2: prompting me to go forward. 166 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,240 Speaker 1: We've got to take a short break, but we'll be 167 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 1: right back with Julia Cameron. And we're back with Julia Cameron. 168 00:11:54,840 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: While you may not have struggled with a loss of 169 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,840 Speaker 1: creative hope, you have been opened up the fact that 170 00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 1: you struggled with jugs and alcohol for many years to 171 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 1: the point of believing that you actually needed them in 172 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:11,120 Speaker 1: order to be creative when it comes to your sobriety. 173 00:12:12,040 --> 00:12:14,959 Speaker 1: What kind of breakthroughs did you experience on the other 174 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:16,880 Speaker 1: side of that courageous decision. 175 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: I found myself remembering a line from the poet Dylan Thomas, 176 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 2: who said that he believed in the force that through 177 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:33,800 Speaker 2: the green fuse. 178 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:35,480 Speaker 3: Drives the flower. 179 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:45,040 Speaker 2: Found myself connecting to that experience and feeling like maybe 180 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:46,400 Speaker 2: there was hope. 181 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:48,319 Speaker 3: For me, it was. 182 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:56,640 Speaker 2: A wonderful thing to find myself feeling hopeful again. 183 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:01,200 Speaker 3: And I found mysel So I. 184 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: Was told to let the higher power, the force of 185 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 2: the universe, write through me. And I said, what if 186 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 2: it doesn't want to, And they said, well. 187 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:19,800 Speaker 3: Just try it. 188 00:13:21,320 --> 00:13:25,920 Speaker 2: So I tried letting the higher power write through me. 189 00:13:26,840 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 2: And what I found was that it was willing to 190 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:37,640 Speaker 2: write through me, that it had a sense of direction 191 00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:44,640 Speaker 2: and positivity that I could tap into at will. So 192 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:51,240 Speaker 2: I found myself feeling like like it was important to 193 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 2: try and make contact with the greater power. That was 194 00:13:55,840 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 2: the big breakthrough for me was feeling like it's possible, 195 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 2: just try it. 196 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:09,000 Speaker 1: So you mentioned that chapter when you were a journalist 197 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,800 Speaker 1: for Rolling Stone in the Washington Post and you were 198 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 1: rubbing shoulders with some of the most famous artists and 199 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: prolific creators of our time, I mean, Joan Didion, Nora Ephron, 200 00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:23,560 Speaker 1: you wrote a short film with your ex husband Martin Scorsese. 201 00:14:24,640 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 1: What was that era like for you? Are there any 202 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 1: stories that come to mind from being in those rooms 203 00:14:31,920 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: with those big artists. 204 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 2: Well, I think the thing that was important to me 205 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 2: was that they were encouraging to me. For example, with Marty, 206 00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:54,120 Speaker 2: whom I later married, I found myself feeling like, well, 207 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 2: if he can write a movie, I can write a movie. 208 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:04,640 Speaker 2: And he didn't say to me, don't try. He didn't 209 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 2: say to me, it's something that only a few of 210 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:13,720 Speaker 2: us can do. He was encouraging to me. I found 211 00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:22,320 Speaker 2: myself feeling hope. And hope was the big turning point 212 00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:25,600 Speaker 2: for me when dealing with other artists. 213 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:28,640 Speaker 1: Was that the moment when you realize creativity is truly 214 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: a galitarian. 215 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:35,720 Speaker 2: I think I had a hunch that it was egalitarian, 216 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 2: that I needed to try to manifest it for myself. 217 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 2: I think I was very lucky in my acquaintances. I 218 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,280 Speaker 2: remember Nora every I'm saying to me, once you write 219 00:15:51,320 --> 00:15:57,160 Speaker 2: the best leads in America, And I thought, this is 220 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:05,400 Speaker 2: incredible urging me. She's telling me I have something special 221 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 2: and that I should use it. 222 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 1: What a beautiful reminder for us to be encouraging two 223 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:16,440 Speaker 1: other artists on their journey. Do you think that those 224 00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 1: conversations made it onto the page and here were you 225 00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 1: shaped by them in that way? 226 00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:23,120 Speaker 3: Well? 227 00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:31,360 Speaker 2: I feel like I had this spiritual awakening that came 228 00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 2: to me through trying tools. I think it's a wonderful 229 00:16:36,880 --> 00:16:41,240 Speaker 2: thing now when I hear I wrote the Artist's Way 230 00:16:42,560 --> 00:16:47,840 Speaker 2: for everybody. But sometimes I'll hear of a celebrity who 231 00:16:49,080 --> 00:16:52,640 Speaker 2: is using the book, and I'll get a little bit excited. 232 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,160 Speaker 2: I suppose that's an example of the fame drug at work, 233 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:07,399 Speaker 2: but I feel like I find myself feeling validated. You know, 234 00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:11,639 Speaker 2: I'll hear that Alicia Keys has used the book, or 235 00:17:11,680 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 2: Reese Witherspoon has used the book, or Goldiehan has used 236 00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:17,120 Speaker 2: the book. 237 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 3: It feels wonderful. 238 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: I can't tell you how comforting it is to hear 239 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: that Julia Cameron herself still feels a boost from validation 240 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,159 Speaker 1: because all artists do, right. 241 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 3: I think we get excited. 242 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:37,879 Speaker 2: I know I'm excited when I hear that somebody's using 243 00:17:37,920 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 2: the tools. I feel like, oh, it's a wonderful thing. 244 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 2: I gave an early copy of the Artist's Way to 245 00:17:51,040 --> 00:17:58,120 Speaker 2: Martin Scorsese. We were by then divorced but amicable, and 246 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:04,040 Speaker 2: he said, it's a company flex and delicate subject. But 247 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 2: for those who will use it, this book is a 248 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 2: great aide. 249 00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 1: What does he think about it now? 250 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:11,239 Speaker 3: I don't know. 251 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 2: I find myself feeling sometimes like the new York Times 252 00:18:21,320 --> 00:18:24,520 Speaker 2: did an article on me, and I found myself thinking, 253 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 2: I wonder if Marty has read that. Really, I don't 254 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:33,239 Speaker 2: call him up and say, are you aware of the 255 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 2: impact that I've had? But I did put his quote 256 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:37,959 Speaker 2: on the book. 257 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 3: Yeah. 258 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:41,880 Speaker 1: What would it mean to you if he had seen 259 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,840 Speaker 1: that New York Times article? Or what would it mean 260 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: to you if he had known the impact that you've had? 261 00:18:46,640 --> 00:18:46,880 Speaker 3: Well? 262 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:52,159 Speaker 2: I think I admire his artistry. I admire the many 263 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:56,439 Speaker 2: films that he has gone forward to make. I think 264 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 2: that I would find myself feeling validated. 265 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:08,479 Speaker 1: That feels totally human. I want to ask you about 266 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: fame and validation and success, because one of the best 267 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: lessons that I gained from your work is honoring the 268 00:19:15,520 --> 00:19:18,879 Speaker 1: dignity of the process, honoring the dignity of the work 269 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:23,720 Speaker 1: as opposed to the end result, like validation or fame. 270 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,680 Speaker 1: What is the one thing you wish all artists knew 271 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: about fame? 272 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:38,600 Speaker 2: I guess I wish that they would understand that the 273 00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:46,120 Speaker 2: process is more important than the result. And I guess 274 00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:51,760 Speaker 2: I would say, are you making art? Is it making 275 00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:59,640 Speaker 2: you happy? I think that fame is a false gol. 276 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 2: We are living in a culture that counts fame as 277 00:20:10,160 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 2: being very important, and I'm not sure that it is 278 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 2: that important. I'm not sure that fame is something that 279 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 2: we should actively seek. I think it's a byproduct of 280 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 2: what happens to us. And speaking for myself, I found 281 00:20:42,080 --> 00:20:50,919 Speaker 2: myself feeling like the notoriety that I've gained from the 282 00:20:51,040 --> 00:20:59,280 Speaker 2: artist's way is something that I didn't seek. I was 283 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 2: tried to help people. People recognize that and got excited. 284 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:11,240 Speaker 1: Here's my question about validation, because clearly this is a 285 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:13,920 Speaker 1: word that keeps coming up. I get that we shouldn't 286 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:16,520 Speaker 1: be seeking fame. I completely agree with you on that. 287 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,240 Speaker 1: How do we know we're on the right path if 288 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:22,359 Speaker 1: no one is validating our work. 289 00:21:23,160 --> 00:21:28,320 Speaker 2: This is where morning pages are so useful. I think 290 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 2: that when we do morning pages, they give us a 291 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:40,080 Speaker 2: sense of solidity and hope and progress. I know for myself, 292 00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:45,000 Speaker 2: I made a feature film then the sound was stolen 293 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 2: and I had to dub the whole film. I found 294 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:58,720 Speaker 2: myself trusting Mourning Pages when it said just keep going, 295 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 2: just keep going. That's what The message that I think 296 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,720 Speaker 2: they give to everybody who uses them. 297 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:10,760 Speaker 1: Is that how you get through periods of drought as well, 298 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,960 Speaker 1: Because Drought is another thing that you talk about in 299 00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: the artist's way, that it's something that everyone goes through. 300 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,080 Speaker 1: You know, when the money drives up, the phone isn't ringing, 301 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,520 Speaker 1: you're not as relevant as you once were, and you 302 00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,879 Speaker 1: say that those droughts are actually necessary as an artist. 303 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:28,600 Speaker 1: How did you get through periods of drought in your 304 00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:29,159 Speaker 1: own career? 305 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 3: I used morning Pages? 306 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:33,960 Speaker 1: Why did I have a feeling you were going to 307 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,520 Speaker 1: say that? So, speaking about morning Pages, what have the 308 00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 1: morning Pages revealed to you about where our sense of 309 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: power should come from as artists? 310 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 2: Well, I think that morning pages teach us to listen 311 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 2: to our inner voice. They teach us to listen to 312 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:03,640 Speaker 2: what spiritual seekers would call the still small voice. That's 313 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:08,919 Speaker 2: the voice in your soul which says to you, you're enough, 314 00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:15,160 Speaker 2: you're good enough, you're big enough. You can try. And 315 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:20,640 Speaker 2: I think that it is in trying that we have breakthroughs. 316 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:23,119 Speaker 1: We need to take a short break, but we'll be 317 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,119 Speaker 1: right back with Julia Cameron. And if you have a 318 00:23:25,119 --> 00:23:27,920 Speaker 1: friend who's creatively blocked, go ahead and share this episode 319 00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:31,359 Speaker 1: with them. I bet they'd love to hear it. And 320 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 1: we're back with Julia Cameron. One of my favorite artists 321 00:23:34,920 --> 00:23:38,399 Speaker 1: way exercises is when you ask us to write a 322 00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 1: letter to our creative bully. 323 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:45,159 Speaker 2: Well, I think we all have had experiences with bullies. 324 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 2: I have them doing exercise where I say, name your 325 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,439 Speaker 2: inner critic, and the meanest thing it's ever said to you, 326 00:23:54,240 --> 00:24:01,280 Speaker 2: in my case, would say, Julia, you're boring, you're repetitive. 327 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 2: Then what would you like to tell your inner critic? 328 00:24:06,000 --> 00:24:08,760 Speaker 2: So this is where the letter to the bully comes in, 329 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 2: where you find yourself writing. 330 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,360 Speaker 3: Buzz off, very cathartic. 331 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,159 Speaker 2: I have an inner critic who's been with me for 332 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 2: fifty five years, ever since I was eighteen years old, 333 00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:32,199 Speaker 2: and I call him Nigel. I named him Nigel because 334 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 2: it was such a picky name. Nigel will say to me, Julia, 335 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,239 Speaker 2: no one's going to want to read this book. And 336 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:47,240 Speaker 2: I've learned to say to Nigel, Nigel, buzz off, and 337 00:24:47,840 --> 00:24:49,280 Speaker 2: to just keep writing. 338 00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,840 Speaker 1: Was there something that happened to you when you were 339 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: eighteen that led to the creation of Nigel in your 340 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 1: own mind? 341 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:05,159 Speaker 2: Well, I'm a poet and I found myself feeling like 342 00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 2: my poetry wasn't good enough. And then I found myself saying, well, 343 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:19,159 Speaker 2: just who's telling you that it's not good enough, and 344 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 2: the answer was, well, I think it's Nigel. 345 00:25:24,640 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 1: Now, the theme of self care, self nurture and taking 346 00:25:28,800 --> 00:25:31,600 Speaker 1: downtime is something that comes up a lot in your writing. 347 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: That's what artist states are all about, taking yourself on 348 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,760 Speaker 1: a fun excursion just to reconnect with your inner artists. 349 00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,320 Speaker 1: Why is that something that you write about so much? 350 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 2: Well, I think we have a culture that tells us 351 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:55,960 Speaker 2: that art should be difficult, that we should experience maybe 352 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:02,080 Speaker 2: a sense of foreboding if we're trying art. And what 353 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 2: I have discovered is that art is born out of whimsy, 354 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:15,800 Speaker 2: frivolity play. When you make a piece of art, you're 355 00:26:15,880 --> 00:26:20,560 Speaker 2: drawing on an inner well. And it says, if you 356 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 2: have a certain number of creative fish and you're trying 357 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:31,560 Speaker 2: to hook the big fish, if you are working streadfastly, 358 00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:37,840 Speaker 2: you may find that you overfish your well and that 359 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 2: the fish become elusive and harsh to find. And that's 360 00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:48,760 Speaker 2: what I learned, that I needed to do something to 361 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 2: restock my inner well. And that's where art of States 362 00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:56,240 Speaker 2: came into play. 363 00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,600 Speaker 1: This is a hot take in today's world, Julia, that 364 00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: you're you're telling me that us you're allowed to have 365 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: fun As an artist, you're allowed to have joy and 366 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 1: you're allowed to smile as you create. We don't have 367 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:11,560 Speaker 1: to create from a place of pain. Always. 368 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:18,280 Speaker 2: Yes, I want to read you something. We believe that 369 00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:23,520 Speaker 2: art is made through pain, but we eventually learned that. 370 00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:28,160 Speaker 3: Art can be made through joy. And this is. 371 00:27:28,119 --> 00:27:36,040 Speaker 2: A poem about joy. It's called Jerusalem is walking in 372 00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 2: this world. 373 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:37,400 Speaker 1: I can't wait. 374 00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:45,000 Speaker 2: This is a great happiness. The air is silk. There 375 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 2: is milk in the looks that come from strangers. I 376 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 2: could not be happier if I were bread and you 377 00:27:52,840 --> 00:28:01,720 Speaker 2: could eat me. Joy is dangerous. It fills me with secrets. Yes, 378 00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:06,919 Speaker 2: kisses in my veins, the pains I take to hide 379 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:13,600 Speaker 2: myself on a shearer's glass. Surely this will pass the 380 00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:20,240 Speaker 2: wind like kisses, the music in the soup, the group 381 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 2: of trees laughing as I say their name. It is 382 00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:31,560 Speaker 2: all Hosanna, It is all prayer. Jerusalem is walking in 383 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:36,120 Speaker 2: this world. Jerusalem is walking in this world. 384 00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 1: Thank you. I love viewing art as a joyful process. 385 00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:45,600 Speaker 1: So we've talked a lot about self knowledge, and as 386 00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:48,600 Speaker 1: much as the Artist's Way is about self knowledge, Julia, 387 00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 1: it's also about knowing who you are surrounding yourself with. 388 00:28:52,840 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 1: And one of the things I love about this book 389 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: is you've really invented an entirely new language to describe 390 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:02,680 Speaker 1: our creative expert and you coined the term believing mirrors. 391 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,440 Speaker 1: Who are they? What is a believing mirror? 392 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:08,280 Speaker 3: Aha? 393 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:13,840 Speaker 2: A believing mirror is somebody who mirrors back to you 394 00:29:13,840 --> 00:29:19,880 Speaker 2: your authentic size and possibility. A believing mirror is somebody 395 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,080 Speaker 2: who says, I think. 396 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:22,960 Speaker 3: You can do that. 397 00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 2: A believing mirrors somebody who says, do you dare? I 398 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,640 Speaker 2: think you should? Dare I've had At the beginning of 399 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:41,960 Speaker 2: this interview, you talked about my being surrounded by wonderful artists, 400 00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 2: and they were for me believing mirrors. 401 00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:48,280 Speaker 1: When I think about the creative journey that I am on, 402 00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,840 Speaker 1: I know it would not be possible without a few 403 00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,960 Speaker 1: believing mirrors in my life. I just love the way 404 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: that you phrased that, And you also imbued words like 405 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:04,520 Speaker 1: synchronicity with new meaning. Can you describe what synchronicity means 406 00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:07,600 Speaker 1: in the universe of the Artist's way and also give 407 00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,200 Speaker 1: me your favorite example of that. 408 00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 2: Synchronicity is sort of the uncanny meshing of our inner world. 409 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 3: And our outer world. 410 00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:25,000 Speaker 2: It's another way to put it is luck. Synchronicity is luck. 411 00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:27,320 Speaker 2: We happen to be in the right place at the 412 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:33,000 Speaker 2: right time. To go back to Marty, I was lucky. 413 00:30:33,560 --> 00:30:37,240 Speaker 2: I was assigned to write about him. He was having 414 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 2: breakthrough films. He gave me a script of Taxi Driver 415 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:49,600 Speaker 2: to read and I read it and I thought parts 416 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:55,560 Speaker 2: of it aren't right. So I sat down and I 417 00:30:55,560 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 2: wrote what I thought was right, and I gave it 418 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:07,360 Speaker 2: to him, and instead of saying, who do you think 419 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:12,920 Speaker 2: you are? He said, can I use this? And that 420 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:15,520 Speaker 2: was an example of synchronicity for me. 421 00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:17,080 Speaker 1: How did that feel in that moment? 422 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:18,400 Speaker 3: Exciting? 423 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: Do you believe you can make your own luck? 424 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:21,760 Speaker 3: Yes? 425 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 2: Again, I keep coming back to try writing morning pages. 426 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 2: If you write morning pages, you will make your own luck. 427 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 2: If you write morning pages and you take artist states, 428 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:41,800 Speaker 2: you will have synchronicity. You will have an experience of 429 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,160 Speaker 2: being in the right time, at the right place. 430 00:31:44,880 --> 00:31:45,920 Speaker 1: How do you explain that. 431 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 2: I I don't explain it. 432 00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:55,720 Speaker 3: I'm just saying try it. Try it. 433 00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,280 Speaker 1: Julia, you have dealt with your fair share of criticism, 434 00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:06,320 Speaker 1: and as any artist does, right, you see that humor 435 00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:11,480 Speaker 1: is your secret weapon. How do you use humor to 436 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,360 Speaker 1: process critiques that you don't necessarily want? 437 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:20,840 Speaker 2: Well, I wrote a novel, a crime novel, and I 438 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:27,560 Speaker 2: got nineteen positive reviews, and then the twentieth review came out, 439 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,680 Speaker 2: and unfortunately it was in the New York Times, and 440 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:39,800 Speaker 2: it was negative. The reviewer didn't like it that my hero. 441 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 3: Was a Youngian. 442 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:47,880 Speaker 2: He evidently was afraid, so he reviewed the book in 443 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 2: terms of Carl Jung's career, and he was scathing. I 444 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 2: felt like I had been covered with sackcloth and ashes, 445 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,400 Speaker 2: and that I shouldn't want the streets of New. 446 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:06,040 Speaker 3: York for shame. And then I thought, wait. 447 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:12,320 Speaker 2: A minute, you know what to do about this, And 448 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:16,640 Speaker 2: I sat down and I wrote this little poem goes 449 00:33:16,680 --> 00:33:21,160 Speaker 2: out to Bill Kent, who must feel awful the way 450 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:27,520 Speaker 2: that he spent his time critiquing Carl Jung instead of 451 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:32,760 Speaker 2: on the work done. Just writing that little humor is 452 00:33:32,920 --> 00:33:40,160 Speaker 2: something lifted my sense of shame, and I have found 453 00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:41,920 Speaker 2: that it always. 454 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,720 Speaker 1: Works in reflecting on the impact that you've had. Julia, 455 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:49,520 Speaker 1: you mentioned that you originally wrote The Artist's Way for 456 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 1: a handful of friends, and I hear that you are 457 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,840 Speaker 1: passing around xerox copies of pages of the book before 458 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:58,360 Speaker 1: it actually ever got bound together into this work that 459 00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,480 Speaker 1: we all know today, and your work, specifically, The Artist 460 00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:11,200 Speaker 1: Way has influenced millions of lives, celebrities like Elizabeth Gilbert, Reese, Witherspoon, Doci, 461 00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:16,200 Speaker 1: who documented her entire Artist Way journey on her YouTube channel. 462 00:34:17,080 --> 00:34:19,640 Speaker 1: I hear that at your house you have artist Way 463 00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:23,600 Speaker 1: trophies everywhere, these little mementos that people have sent you 464 00:34:23,640 --> 00:34:27,440 Speaker 1: through the years to commemorate their finished creative works that 465 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:31,680 Speaker 1: you inspired. Would you share a couple that stand out 466 00:34:31,719 --> 00:34:32,000 Speaker 1: to you. 467 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 2: I go to my mailbox, I open it up. In 468 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:42,440 Speaker 2: it are things like a book by my friend Sophie Burnham. 469 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 2: Sophie says that I'm responsible for her writing her newest book, 470 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:57,640 Speaker 2: and I say, no, Selphie, you are responsible for writing 471 00:34:57,719 --> 00:35:01,719 Speaker 2: your newest book. But it gives to be glee to 472 00:35:01,840 --> 00:35:09,040 Speaker 2: think that maybe when she was depressed, she found herself thinking, Oh, 473 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,759 Speaker 2: the Artist's Way says, just try it. 474 00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:16,040 Speaker 1: That must be so exciting to see messages like that 475 00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:19,799 Speaker 1: come in the mail. And I want to talk about 476 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,640 Speaker 1: your new book, The Daily Artist Way, which as we mentioned, 477 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:27,360 Speaker 1: is three hundred and sixty six meditations for creative living, 478 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,280 Speaker 1: quotes prompts on how to live your best creative life. 479 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,200 Speaker 1: What inspired you to create a daily book? And why now? 480 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:36,600 Speaker 1: Why this moment in time? 481 00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's always time. So why at this 482 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:48,240 Speaker 2: moment in time did I choose to write so deeply 483 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 2: about creativity? And I think it was because I had 484 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:58,319 Speaker 2: a feeling that it would catch up with people, that 485 00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:02,840 Speaker 2: the three hundred and sixty six meditations would be something 486 00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 2: that they would find useful. I found myself saying, Oh, 487 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,560 Speaker 2: I've said it before, but I think i'll say it again. 488 00:36:14,960 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 2: Creativity is part of all of us. Recently, I got 489 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:27,359 Speaker 2: reviewed and it said Julius tools are simple and repetitive, 490 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,680 Speaker 2: and I thought, I think that's supposed to be an insult, 491 00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 2: But I actually am thrilled that my tools are simple 492 00:36:40,120 --> 00:36:44,719 Speaker 2: and repetitive, because that's exactly what tools should be. So 493 00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:49,719 Speaker 2: the Daily Artist's Way was born out of the conviction 494 00:36:50,520 --> 00:36:52,760 Speaker 2: that you could say it more than once. 495 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:57,040 Speaker 1: Is there a particular order that you recommend readers approach 496 00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:00,399 Speaker 1: your work? Do you think that they should start with 497 00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:02,800 Speaker 1: the original Artist's Way and then move on to the 498 00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:05,000 Speaker 1: Daily Artists Way? 499 00:37:05,239 --> 00:37:07,439 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, I think that would work. 500 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 1: Fine, well, Julia, this is my final question for you. 501 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,840 Speaker 1: It's something I like to ask every guest on our show. 502 00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:16,920 Speaker 1: What is one thing you're celebrating in your life right now? 503 00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 3: I'm in a pause. 504 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,200 Speaker 2: I usually go book to book to book to book 505 00:37:22,239 --> 00:37:26,719 Speaker 2: to book, and I've written fifty books, so that's a 506 00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:34,880 Speaker 2: lot of books. And I'm giving myself permission to pause, 507 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:43,400 Speaker 2: to slow down, to wait for an idea to come 508 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:47,440 Speaker 2: to me, rather than rushing ahead. 509 00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:50,759 Speaker 3: So I think. 510 00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:56,759 Speaker 2: I think my message that I'm celebrating right now is 511 00:37:58,120 --> 00:38:00,960 Speaker 2: it's all right to show down. 512 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:05,880 Speaker 1: Well, Julia Cameron, this has been one of the greatest 513 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:08,719 Speaker 1: pleasures of my career. Thank you so much. 514 00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:09,759 Speaker 3: Thank you. 515 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,759 Speaker 1: Julia Cameron is the best selling writer of The Artists Way. 516 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:19,680 Speaker 1: Her new book, The Daily Artist Way three hundred and 517 00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:23,759 Speaker 1: sixty six Meditations for Creative Living is out now. I 518 00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:26,400 Speaker 1: want to hear what this conversation unlocked for you, So 519 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:28,480 Speaker 1: if you want to keep the conversation going, hit me 520 00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,279 Speaker 1: up on Instagram or anywhere on social media at Simone Boyce. 521 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,440 Speaker 1: The bright Side is a production of Hello, Sunshine and 522 00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,080 Speaker 1: iHeart Podcasts and is executive produced by Reese Witherspoon and 523 00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:43,239 Speaker 1: me Simone Boyce. Production is by A Cast Creative Studios. 524 00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:47,120 Speaker 1: Our producers are Taylor Williamson, Abby Delk, and Adrian Bain. 525 00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:52,160 Speaker 1: Our production assistant is Joya putnoy Acasts Executive producers are 526 00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:56,239 Speaker 1: Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder. Maureen Polo and Reese Witherspoon 527 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,160 Speaker 1: are the executive producers for Hello Sunshine. Ali Perry and 528 00:39:00,239 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: Lauren Hansen are the executive producers for iHeart Podcasts. Our 529 00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: theme song is by Anna Stump and Hamilton Lakehouser