WEBVTT - Sophie Cunningham's Transphobic WNBA Panic 0:00:06.820 --> 0:00:09.820 Welcome to It Could Happen Here, seemingly the only podcast 0:00:09.880 --> 0:00:12.760 bold enough to do what the mainstream media is too 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.380 cowardly to do and let trans people talk about, uh, ourselves, 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:21.270 I guess? Or the unhinged issues that a bunch of 0:00:21.350 --> 0:00:25.389 reactionary cis people have foisted upon us. And here to 0:00:25.430 --> 0:00:32.720 talk with me today about a... truly baffling and very 0:00:33.200 --> 0:00:38.419 weird and shitty anti-trans panic that has been launched in 0:00:38.500 --> 0:00:43.200 the WNBA is Frankie de la Cruz who's a sports 0:00:43.260 --> 0:00:45.600 writer who writes at the intersection of sports and gender 0:00:45.740 --> 0:00:47.440 and does a very good job of it in a 0:00:47.500 --> 0:00:50.420 way that I was going to say few others do. 0:00:50.500 --> 0:00:52.920 And then I was like, who am I thinking about 0:00:52.979 --> 0:00:55.280 who also does this and does it this well? And like, 0:00:55.340 --> 0:00:59.480 I'm not sure I have anyone. So incredible work. 0:00:59.750 --> 0:01:00.670 I appreciate that. 0:01:02.310 --> 0:01:04.710 The other guest I have on today is Bugs Matrix, 0:01:04.890 --> 0:01:07.790 who if you have like been on the internet and 0:01:07.830 --> 0:01:10.910 been anywhere near trans people, you are aware of Bugs. 0:01:12.050 --> 0:01:16.870 What I think people are less aware of is A, 0:01:16.990 --> 0:01:19.289 that if you've ever heard a trans person say, yeah, 0:01:19.350 --> 0:01:25.709 that's Bugs. And B, Bugs was also a trans college athlete. 0:01:26.410 --> 0:01:28.490 So both of you two, welcome to the show. And 0:01:28.590 --> 0:01:32.280 I'm excited to get to actually talk about this WNBA 0:01:32.590 --> 0:01:39.320 Sophie Cunningham bullshit with the trio of former trans college athlete, 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:42.300 trans journalist, and whatever the hell I am, transgender. 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:45.120 It's truly the meeting of the vines. 0:01:45.610 --> 0:01:48.250 Yeah, I'm excited, too. I spend most of my time 0:01:48.510 --> 0:01:50.910 talking to cis people about this, so it's nice to 0:01:50.930 --> 0:01:53.590 have different conversation partners. 0:01:55.110 --> 0:01:57.860 It's so nice to be able to talk with people 0:01:57.880 --> 0:01:59.320 who intrinsically know Ball. 0:02:00.960 --> 0:02:01.720 That, too! 0:02:02.760 --> 0:02:03.400 Oh, God. 0:02:04.080 --> 0:02:09.940 So, okay, speaking of knowing Ball, so the specific controversy, 0:02:10.020 --> 0:02:14.350 I don't even know what to call this, Media frenzy? 0:02:15.470 --> 0:02:15.989 Witch hunt? 0:02:16.590 --> 0:02:17.630 Yeah. Crusade? 0:02:17.930 --> 0:02:18.170 Yeah. 0:02:18.710 --> 0:02:25.700 Yeah. Centered around a WNBA player named Sophie Cunningham, which 0:02:26.280 --> 0:02:29.639 I guess people have heard of her now. My first 0:02:29.680 --> 0:02:34.750 experience of this was... Seeing everyone talking about Sophie Cunningham 0:02:34.870 --> 0:02:38.329 and being absolutely baffled because I was like, wait, isn't 0:02:38.370 --> 0:02:41.010 she that bench player from The Fever? Why is everyone 0:02:41.050 --> 0:02:41.750 talking about her? 0:02:41.770 --> 0:02:42.650 I don't know. 0:02:42.710 --> 0:02:44.290 In, like, football terms, the only thing I can think 0:02:44.350 --> 0:02:48.410 of is, like, somehow everyone in the world knows who, like, 0:02:48.889 --> 0:02:53.110 the Broncos' long snapper is. It's like, what? Like, why 0:02:53.130 --> 0:02:56.290 does anyone know this? Like, what's happening? 0:02:56.370 --> 0:02:59.780 It's like, she's the drop chap. What's going on, dog? 0:03:00.070 --> 0:03:03.650 Yeah, I mean, yeah, I think The ball-knowers have kind 0:03:03.690 --> 0:03:06.490 of always known, because she's a rage-baiter, she's kind of 0:03:06.550 --> 0:03:11.940 been a professional bench-warmer and rage-baiter, but the rage-baiting has 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.840 really come to the forefront over the last season or two. 0:03:15.980 --> 0:03:19.780 I think she's personally preparing for a exit of the 0:03:19.820 --> 0:03:24.480 basketball career to right-wing grifter kind of trajectory. Oh, absolutely. 0:03:24.500 --> 0:03:27.530 And this worked out perfectly, didn't it? Yeah. 0:03:27.560 --> 0:03:27.760 Yeah. 0:03:28.250 --> 0:03:31.050 I can't believe this is still a looper than grift. Yeah. 0:03:31.330 --> 0:03:31.640 I mean.. 0:03:32.780 --> 0:03:35.620 I feel like there's so many like places that we 0:03:35.690 --> 0:03:38.810 can like start to talk about it, but it's so, 0:03:38.830 --> 0:03:42.030 I think for me as a journalist, the most frustrating 0:03:42.070 --> 0:03:44.970 part of the entire thing is how it started, which 0:03:45.030 --> 0:03:50.460 was like with irresponsible journalism and like irresponsible, like ESPN 0:03:50.500 --> 0:03:54.540 profile with this like dropped in quote from her. And 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:56.640 it has, I mean, we're on what week of this? 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:58.060 Three of this? 0:03:58.440 --> 0:03:59.980 I think we're somewhere in week three. Yeah. 0:04:00.390 --> 0:04:03.430 Yeah, it seems sort of like it's never ending. I 0:04:04.590 --> 0:04:05.290 wish it would end. 0:04:06.350 --> 0:04:08.330 Yeah, we're going to get more into this in a second. 0:04:08.550 --> 0:04:11.290 I cannot emphasize this enough. This is a player who 0:04:11.350 --> 0:04:14.440 comes off of the bench on this team, which means 0:04:14.460 --> 0:04:16.890 she's not a starter. And she comes off the bench 0:04:17.250 --> 0:04:19.280 to brick a couple of threes and then goes back. 0:04:19.520 --> 0:04:20.660 And start fights. 0:04:20.800 --> 0:04:23.020 Excuse me, excuse me, I'm being racist. 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.560 That's true, that's true. That's true. 0:04:26.900 --> 0:04:29.400 But like, this is not like a star. And the 0:04:29.420 --> 0:04:33.200 team that she's on, the Indiana Fever, has like several 0:04:33.260 --> 0:04:37.190 legitimate superstars on it. And ESPN is like cutting their 0:04:37.230 --> 0:04:39.589 highlights where the first highlight will be like her making 0:04:39.630 --> 0:04:41.090 a basket. And it's like, well, okay, that's the only 0:04:41.130 --> 0:04:45.610 basket she's made in like two weeks. But it's like, why? God, 0:04:45.650 --> 0:04:47.729 I don't know. I'm frustrated about this, but we should 0:04:47.750 --> 0:04:50.110 tell the actual story. And I think it's all the story... 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:52.480 I think we need to go back and talk about 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.620 Caitlin Clark's entrance to the league, because I think that 0:04:55.940 --> 0:04:59.390 to some extent is the beginning of all of this 0:04:59.410 --> 0:05:05.570 and the beginning of kind of this bunch of weird 0:05:05.630 --> 0:05:10.469 fascists who are now, I guess, quote unquote, WNBA fans. 0:05:10.790 --> 0:05:14.419 No, I think that's true because, you know, I think 0:05:14.440 --> 0:05:19.130 the WNBA has this reputation as like a very progressive organization. league. 0:05:19.430 --> 0:05:21.609 And for the most part, that's the players that have 0:05:21.630 --> 0:05:24.370 been progressive. The league is a corporation that has benefited 0:05:24.490 --> 0:05:29.360 from the players, you know, actions. But there's always going 0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:32.980 to be conservative, you know, players or people in kind 0:05:33.000 --> 0:05:35.580 of any atmosphere. And Sophie Cunningham, if you've followed her 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:38.930 since her college career, has always been that. She, you know, 0:05:39.470 --> 0:05:42.490 was known for being racist when she was at Mizzou. Like, 0:05:43.029 --> 0:05:45.550 there was the meme of her and Kalia Copper when 0:05:45.570 --> 0:05:48.070 they were both on different teams. They really did not 0:05:48.110 --> 0:05:50.810 get along. This is a reputation that Sophie has had 0:05:51.230 --> 0:05:53.690 for a long time and on its own just would 0:05:53.730 --> 0:05:56.130 have been, I think, you know, again, a random bench 0:05:56.170 --> 0:06:00.130 player that most people didn't know. But Kaitlyn Clark coming 0:06:00.190 --> 0:06:02.760 to the WNBA and being as high profile as she 0:06:02.920 --> 0:06:05.479 was and the way she was framed as the next 0:06:05.540 --> 0:06:10.320 great white straight cis hope for this league really brought 0:06:10.600 --> 0:06:14.919 a particular kind of culture and fan with her. And 0:06:15.020 --> 0:06:18.599 so I think without Kaitlyn Clark coming into the league 0:06:18.620 --> 0:06:23.150 and MAGA people and right-wing people seeing her as a 0:06:23.450 --> 0:06:26.450 way to kind of gain a foothold with this league, 0:06:26.810 --> 0:06:28.910 I don't think Sophie blows up in the way that 0:06:28.990 --> 0:06:32.070 she does, especially when you consider that right She's been 0:06:32.089 --> 0:06:35.930 brought to the Fever as essentially Caitlin Clark's enforcer because 0:06:36.010 --> 0:06:39.770 Caitlin Clark can't play defense or hold her own on 0:06:39.790 --> 0:06:40.490 the court at all. 0:06:40.529 --> 0:06:41.490 I swear to God. 0:06:43.210 --> 0:06:47.130 It's like this team, I keep doing cross-sports comparisons, but 0:06:47.230 --> 0:06:50.950 it's like the Fever are this weird team where it's 0:06:50.970 --> 0:06:55.940 like they're like last year's Cowboys where it's like a... weird, 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.600 weird white fan base that also pulls in a bunch 0:06:58.620 --> 0:07:02.460 of random, like, I just kind of know about football fans. B, 0:07:02.820 --> 0:07:05.560 elite offense. Literally cannot play defense at all. 0:07:05.900 --> 0:07:08.810 Yeah, and, like, this isn't hockey. We don't have enforcers 0:07:09.390 --> 0:07:11.290 in women's basketball in the same way. 0:07:11.570 --> 0:07:15.530 Right, it's not full contact like this, dog. Yeah. 0:07:16.250 --> 0:07:18.270 I think it's worth kind of talking about the racial 0:07:18.290 --> 0:07:21.760 dynamics of this because a lot of the initial hype around... 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:29.120 Caitlin Clark was this weird sort of like, yeah, like 0:07:29.140 --> 0:07:31.140 what you're saying, Frankie, like this great white hope stuff. 0:07:31.460 --> 0:07:34.970 And like her rival was like, she was like set 0:07:35.030 --> 0:07:38.630 up against Angel Reese, who's a black player, who is 0:07:39.050 --> 0:07:41.830 very weird and interesting basketball player. But unfortunately, nobody really 0:07:41.870 --> 0:07:45.110 cares about that because everyone, there's just this like racist 0:07:45.310 --> 0:07:48.700 sort of panic around this whole thing to, to the 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:52.870 extent where like, there's like congressmen everywhere. who are talking about, like, 0:07:52.990 --> 0:07:56.670 starting investigations into Caitlin Clark's, like, fouls. 0:07:57.050 --> 0:07:59.860 Yeah, and I think it's important to, like, point out 0:07:59.950 --> 0:08:02.460 whether you want to be super generous and put none 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:04.900 of this onto Caitlin and say she's an avatar for 0:08:04.940 --> 0:08:08.480 whatever culture war the right is waging, or you want 0:08:08.500 --> 0:08:11.780 to say she really should have been shouting this down 0:08:11.820 --> 0:08:14.380 a long time ago and she's, whether she believes this 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:18.140 or not, she's in part responsible because, you know, she's 0:08:18.180 --> 0:08:22.340 complicit in her silence. Whichever kind of route you want 0:08:22.380 --> 0:08:24.880 to take with that what you can't deny is that 0:08:25.050 --> 0:08:28.970 every time she flops or is you know takes a 0:08:28.990 --> 0:08:32.750 hard foul against a player who is black queer masculine 0:08:33.250 --> 0:08:36.780 it gets blown up the player on the other end 0:08:36.820 --> 0:08:40.260 of that is getting you know death threats they're dealing 0:08:40.280 --> 0:08:42.820 with harassment and abuse and racial slurs and this has 0:08:42.860 --> 0:08:45.350 been a pattern that goes back to her rookie season 0:08:45.830 --> 0:08:48.470 And so there is very much a gender component, right? 0:08:48.530 --> 0:08:52.810 A racial component to how Caitlin Clark is being received 0:08:52.890 --> 0:08:55.449 by this fan base and how her opponents in a 0:08:55.510 --> 0:09:01.310 predominantly Black, overwhelmingly queer league are also being received. 0:09:01.870 --> 0:09:04.380 Yeah. And circling back to what you were saying about 0:09:04.720 --> 0:09:07.860 whether or not Caitlin Clark is, you know, either you 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:11.240 think either she's complicit or not in this, like that 0:09:12.059 --> 0:09:15.980 is the base of people who have surrounded her. And 0:09:16.720 --> 0:09:21.080 that's been the basis of the way that sports media 0:09:21.179 --> 0:09:24.380 also has, has interacted with her because if you're sports media, 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:26.839 you know, there's an enormous incentive to just sort of 0:09:26.940 --> 0:09:30.380 drive out this like racist drivel and like, you know, 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.100 make clips of like every single time she gets knocked 0:09:33.140 --> 0:09:35.300 down or something, or every time she just like flops 0:09:35.340 --> 0:09:38.960 when someone like is like even vaguely in her proximity. 0:09:38.980 --> 0:09:39.340 Yeah. 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:42.480 It creates this sort of feedback loop of it where 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:46.140 you have– on the one hand, you have these white 0:09:46.160 --> 0:09:50.970 supremacists who feed off of this stuff and want to 0:09:51.110 --> 0:09:53.990 use this as an avenue to push their racism. But 0:09:54.010 --> 0:09:57.870 then also that develops this symbiotic relationship with the sports 0:09:57.929 --> 0:09:59.790 media who are like, yeah, we can make money off 0:09:59.809 --> 0:10:02.910 of this. of this. And we're sort of like this 0:10:02.960 --> 0:10:03.890 a lot of the time anyways. 0:10:04.390 --> 0:10:08.679 Yeah, and I've been covering the WNBA for about a 0:10:08.700 --> 0:10:11.939 decade since it was just lesbians and old people in 0:10:11.960 --> 0:10:16.640 the stands. And those were the best days, I will say. 0:10:17.210 --> 0:10:19.590 And as someone who has covered the league for that 0:10:19.630 --> 0:10:21.790 long and been to as many games as I have, 0:10:21.820 --> 0:10:25.219 I will obviously say not all Fever fans feel a 0:10:25.260 --> 0:10:28.660 particular way or believe a certain thing. Of course, that's 0:10:28.720 --> 0:10:31.640 the case. I've also seen the shift in the three 0:10:31.660 --> 0:10:33.720 years that Caitlin Clark has been in the league of 0:10:34.160 --> 0:10:36.370 who shows up to the Fever games. And as we 0:10:36.410 --> 0:10:38.230 will continue to talk about, I think, as we talk 0:10:38.270 --> 0:10:41.110 about Sophie, now that kind of Sophie has become the 0:10:41.210 --> 0:10:45.630 actual mouthpiece that Caitlin has failed to be for these people. 0:10:46.410 --> 0:10:48.590 the people who are showing up to their road games 0:10:48.650 --> 0:10:55.090 as well in support of Sophie and her viewpoints. And so, 0:10:55.350 --> 0:10:58.949 of course, right, probably the majority of Fever fans are great. 0:10:59.470 --> 0:11:02.689 And it's also true that there really has been an 0:11:02.790 --> 0:11:07.130 influx of people who never, I can curse here, right, 0:11:07.150 --> 0:11:11.400 never fucked the WNBA, right? They didn't care about women's sports. 0:11:12.540 --> 0:11:15.480 And they have shown up and brought a lot of the, like, 0:11:15.760 --> 0:11:19.400 toxic mainstream culture and things about men's sports culture that 0:11:19.420 --> 0:11:21.860 probably most of us watch women's sports to get away 0:11:21.940 --> 0:11:25.000 from has shown up here. 0:11:25.020 --> 0:11:25.439 Right. 0:11:25.460 --> 0:11:25.600 Yeah. 0:11:25.700 --> 0:11:28.610 And it coincides with, with Caitlin Clark, you know, coming 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.730 to the league. So I guess we should start actually 0:11:31.770 --> 0:11:34.690 talking about Sophie Cunningham. 0:11:35.130 --> 0:11:35.970 Unfortunately. 0:11:37.010 --> 0:11:42.609 Yeah. Like for better or for worse, Caitlin Clark, does 0:11:43.070 --> 0:11:45.530 want to play basketball. 0:11:44.990 --> 0:11:48.209 Yeah like she's here to literally play ball like like 0:11:48.410 --> 0:11:52.010 definitely her not speaking up against like being portrayed as 0:11:52.110 --> 0:11:57.110 this avatar is shitty and frustrating but like at the 0:11:57.150 --> 0:11:59.500 end of the day she's here to play with the 0:11:59.530 --> 0:12:04.740 nice little orange sphere and Sophie not so much. 0:12:05.290 --> 0:12:07.390 Yeah, this is one of these things where it's kind 0:12:07.410 --> 0:12:09.429 of vibes based, but I feel like the way that 0:12:09.450 --> 0:12:11.870 it was portrayed in the media and then this also 0:12:11.990 --> 0:12:14.170 fed into sort of like the fascist base was that 0:12:15.130 --> 0:12:17.170 Caitlin Clark was going to come into the WNBA and 0:12:17.190 --> 0:12:18.790 she was immediately going to be the best player and 0:12:18.809 --> 0:12:20.570 everyone was going to have to deal with it. And 0:12:20.590 --> 0:12:25.710 that like didn't happen because she's like, a pretty good player, but, like... 0:12:25.630 --> 0:12:29.080 She's fine. A, even if she was that good, it's like, okay, 0:12:30.020 --> 0:12:33.260 unfortunately for every other great basketball player in the WNBA, 0:12:33.480 --> 0:12:36.280 you exist at the same time as Prime Major Wilson, so, like, 0:12:36.720 --> 0:12:41.120 good luck ever winning any award. Like, I don't know. 0:12:41.140 --> 0:12:43.880 This is, like, maybe the greatest basketball player who's, like, 0:12:44.020 --> 0:12:47.880 walked the earth in this generation. Like, good luck. It's true. 0:12:48.070 --> 0:12:51.590 And even when Caitlyn drops 30 points, she's often giving 0:12:51.650 --> 0:12:53.670 up 30 on turnovers, so she kind of ends up 0:12:53.710 --> 0:12:54.630 being a net neutral. 0:12:56.690 --> 0:12:59.550 Yeah. And Angel Wilson, by the way, was, like, Defensive 0:12:59.570 --> 0:13:02.030 Player of the Year and MVP. And, like, you know, 0:13:02.110 --> 0:13:05.230 it's like... She's, like, yeah, you know, just this, like, 0:13:05.370 --> 0:13:06.309 transcendent player. 0:13:06.330 --> 0:13:06.430 But.. 0:13:08.720 --> 0:13:12.480 I think there's this moment where, like, it becomes clear after, like, 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:14.940 a couple of years of this that, like, you know, like, 0:13:14.960 --> 0:13:16.320 there's still a bunch of people who are in the 0:13:16.380 --> 0:13:18.699 trenches being, like, Caitlyn Clark is the best player in 0:13:18.720 --> 0:13:21.760 the league. But, like, it's not clear to me if 0:13:21.800 --> 0:13:25.819 she's better than, like, rookie Olivia Biles. 0:13:25.840 --> 0:13:28.220 She's not. I don't think she is. 0:13:29.280 --> 0:13:33.090 She's not. Olivia Biles has an MVP case, like, as 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:36.150 a rookie. I mean, Caitlyn doesn't, in my opinion. 0:13:36.170 --> 0:13:36.670 Unbelievable. 0:13:37.860 --> 0:13:39.650 I love her. I want to talk about her at 0:13:39.700 --> 0:13:41.260 the end because I want to end up like a 0:13:41.280 --> 0:13:44.880 little bit of just like ball good. But I think 0:13:44.900 --> 0:13:47.680 there's this moment of like Caitlin, like I guess she 0:13:47.700 --> 0:13:49.640 like kind of denounced it like the end of her 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:50.520 first season. 0:13:50.620 --> 0:13:53.180 But like she felt like without going like hard in 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:56.040 the paint to it, like you're still leaving room. 0:13:56.340 --> 0:13:58.880 Yeah. But it's like she won't go hard in the 0:13:58.900 --> 0:14:01.300 paint against it. But she also, you know, as you're saying, 0:14:01.380 --> 0:14:02.900 like before the break, it's like, yeah, she wants to 0:14:02.940 --> 0:14:07.030 play basketball. Yeah. And so she's not willing to go 0:14:07.170 --> 0:14:10.080 on camera and say the things and do the things 0:14:10.100 --> 0:14:12.960 that these people want. And I guess that's where Sophie 0:14:12.980 --> 0:14:17.220 Cunningham came in because she will do that. 0:14:17.360 --> 0:14:17.780 She will. 0:14:17.840 --> 0:14:20.360 And I mean, I think it's also related that she 0:14:20.380 --> 0:14:24.310 started a podcast this year, right? Like she has decided to, 0:14:25.450 --> 0:14:32.230 she's basically using her profile as a fever bench player, AKA, 0:14:32.770 --> 0:14:37.020 you know, Caitlin Clark's enforcer. And the exposure that has 0:14:37.090 --> 0:14:38.920 come with that, which is more than she's ever had 0:14:38.970 --> 0:14:41.850 in her, you know, however many seven or so seasons 0:14:42.190 --> 0:14:45.970 in the WNBA. But to me, what's clear is that 0:14:46.010 --> 0:14:49.210 she is setting herself up for an exit. And the 0:14:49.230 --> 0:14:52.250 podcast is kind of the first step in that. And 0:14:52.330 --> 0:14:55.030 maybe people didn't care what she had to say before. 0:14:55.650 --> 0:14:57.830 But now that more people know who she is because 0:14:57.930 --> 0:15:01.960 of who she's playing with, she is kind of starting 0:15:02.100 --> 0:15:05.540 to step into this other, and it's very, very, we 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.940 can talk more about this too, but it's very insidious 0:15:08.000 --> 0:15:12.239 the way she talks about sharing her views because she's 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.470 basically co-opting social justice language when she'll say things like, 0:15:15.500 --> 0:15:18.370 people tell you to use a platform and then when 0:15:18.410 --> 0:15:20.810 you use it, right, they criticize you for it or 0:15:20.930 --> 0:15:23.930 whatever it is. And so she's kind of doing this 0:15:24.130 --> 0:15:27.330 thing where she's starting a podcast. She's already, also, she 0:15:27.390 --> 0:15:30.180 keeps getting fined for saying shit On her podcast about 0:15:30.200 --> 0:15:32.160 the refs and stuff, she really just, like, mouths off. 0:15:32.180 --> 0:15:36.970 Wait, wait, maybe her being on a podcast is a 0:15:36.990 --> 0:15:38.670 good thing. Yeah, right? 0:15:38.810 --> 0:15:42.690 So she has this podcast, but then at the same time, 0:15:43.270 --> 0:15:47.060 she's projecting the, I'm using my platform for, you know, 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:48.000 my beliefs. 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:50.620 Which is something that, like, I've heard even sort of, like, 0:15:50.660 --> 0:15:53.260 left-wing people, like, in the space doing this, like, well, 0:15:53.320 --> 0:15:55.600 it's just an interesting thing because the WNBA has always 0:15:55.620 --> 0:15:58.859 been a league where, like, players do use their platforms. 0:15:59.430 --> 0:16:02.430 to do activism. And like, and that is absolutely true. 0:16:02.510 --> 0:16:04.750 Like the actual first in professional sports. Actually, I could 0:16:04.770 --> 0:16:07.700 be wrong about that because maybe there was another women's 0:16:07.740 --> 0:16:09.780 league that did it first that I just missed, but 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.100 I'm pretty sure they were the first professional sports league 0:16:12.120 --> 0:16:14.640 that was actually doing like anti-police brutality protests. 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.320 Yes, they were. They also, they were doing that before 0:16:18.340 --> 0:16:20.820 Colin Kaepernick took a knee. Oh yeah. And then once 0:16:20.940 --> 0:16:23.720 he did kneel, actually that's how I started following the 0:16:23.940 --> 0:16:27.640 WNBA was I was writing about player protests and somebody 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.320 told me entire WNBA teams were kneeling on the court 0:16:30.700 --> 0:16:33.760 and it had gotten no coverage. And I was like, oh, 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:36.920 and that's when I actually started. So yeah, they were 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.150 doing media blackouts to talk about police brutality before Colin 0:16:40.170 --> 0:16:40.910 Kaepernick knelt. 0:16:41.210 --> 0:16:42.930 Yeah. That's fucking awesome. 0:16:43.790 --> 0:16:46.410 Yeah, they fucking rock. Like, it's good as hell. 0:16:46.550 --> 0:16:48.150 That's sick. 0:16:48.840 --> 0:16:51.800 But then you get media people being like, well, this 0:16:51.840 --> 0:16:54.680 has always been a league where people use their platform 0:16:54.960 --> 0:16:56.220 for activism. 0:16:56.640 --> 0:17:01.790 That's such a mealy-mouthed bullshit. Like, okay, sure, technically, but like.. 0:17:02.250 --> 0:17:05.570 I guess you could call a Klan rally activism. If 0:17:05.609 --> 0:17:08.649 you really want to do that, I will be angry 0:17:08.750 --> 0:17:12.140 at you. But like, this is like not the same 0:17:12.220 --> 0:17:13.620 thing at all. 0:17:13.900 --> 0:17:16.760 There is no difference between the Unite the Right rally 0:17:17.080 --> 0:17:20.659 and going to help out at Food Not Bombs. If 0:17:20.680 --> 0:17:23.340 you're stupid. If you're fucking stupid. 0:17:24.700 --> 0:17:28.070 That must be such an amazing world to live in psychologically. 0:17:28.140 --> 0:17:30.770 Everything must be so easy for you if you just 0:17:31.290 --> 0:17:32.570 don't understand anything. 0:17:32.590 --> 0:17:34.590 That would be so great to be a moron. 0:17:34.810 --> 0:17:38.030 I mean, the Turning Point USA flyer to support Sophie 0:17:38.070 --> 0:17:40.710 Cunningham spelled her name wrong, so honestly. 0:17:41.869 --> 0:17:42.310 Of course. 0:17:43.869 --> 0:17:45.270 This is coming back to one of the things about 0:17:45.290 --> 0:17:46.949 being on the right versus being on the left, which 0:17:46.990 --> 0:17:49.620 is like, you know, In order to be on the left, 0:17:49.660 --> 0:17:53.270 you do have to have standards. Like, you can't be, like, 0:17:53.550 --> 0:17:57.209 an abuser, right? Like, you will eventually get run out 0:17:57.250 --> 0:17:57.590 for that. 0:17:57.710 --> 0:17:58.070 Maybe. 0:17:58.109 --> 0:17:59.369 Whereas on the right, you can just do it and 0:17:59.410 --> 0:18:02.600 it's fine. But, comma, if you get arrested, only one 0:18:02.619 --> 0:18:04.360 of these two groups is going to be there for you. 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:06.500 And it sure as fuck not the people who are 0:18:06.520 --> 0:18:10.600 going to spell your name wrong on the promotional flyer. 0:18:10.900 --> 0:18:26.370 It's so beastline. okay but like what has sophie been 0:18:26.430 --> 0:18:29.770 saying and doing let's just get into the video yeah. 0:18:29.590 --> 0:18:32.090 Let's let's talk about that yeah and i think this 0:18:32.190 --> 0:18:33.990 is where as i kind of said at the beginning 0:18:34.020 --> 0:18:36.660 i think it's important to look at where it started 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.580 because i think this was a failure of media from 0:18:39.619 --> 0:18:42.379 the beginning and the reason that it has snowballed in 0:18:42.400 --> 0:18:44.060 the way that it is is v with an incredible 0:18:44.100 --> 0:18:46.970 headline it was basically like love her or hate her 0:18:47.070 --> 0:18:49.070 like sophie won't be ignored and i kind of was 0:18:49.109 --> 0:18:53.140 like well I was ignoring her until you decided to 0:18:53.540 --> 0:18:54.399 run a profile. 0:18:54.700 --> 0:18:57.300 Yeah, you decided she won't be ignored. 0:18:57.400 --> 0:19:01.909 On a baseline, this is such a baffling player to 0:19:01.950 --> 0:19:02.649 run a profile of. 0:19:03.369 --> 0:19:06.490 Right, well, so the profile itself, too, is such, to me, 0:19:06.609 --> 0:19:12.369 an example of shoddy journalism because they spend most of 0:19:12.490 --> 0:19:15.359 it where her parents are kind of bragging about how 0:19:15.400 --> 0:19:18.050 she was a childhood bully. Then they go on to 0:19:18.109 --> 0:19:21.270 say how she used to play on teams with boys 0:19:21.350 --> 0:19:23.050 and beat them, and that was like a source of 0:19:23.130 --> 0:19:27.250 pride for them. And then, after those things, they kind 0:19:27.290 --> 0:19:31.840 of casually drop in Sophie saying, people think I hate trans, 0:19:32.220 --> 0:19:34.800 end of sentence. Trans what? We don't know. 0:19:34.820 --> 0:19:35.899 What's it? 0:19:37.180 --> 0:19:41.420 But I don't. I don't. I just essentially, you know, 0:19:41.500 --> 0:19:44.760 I believe in love, but I think, you know, biological 0:19:44.940 --> 0:19:48.050 males should not be in sport with girls. So again, 0:19:48.090 --> 0:19:51.530 we also have adult men being playing, somehow playing sport 0:19:51.880 --> 0:19:55.320 with young girls. So there was just so many places 0:19:55.500 --> 0:19:58.399 as a reporter, if I were writing this profile, that 0:19:58.440 --> 0:20:01.060 I kind of would have been like, huh, okay, well, 0:20:01.500 --> 0:20:05.150 can you give any examples of you know, grown men 0:20:05.190 --> 0:20:07.830 playing sports against girls. Could you talk to me about 0:20:07.910 --> 0:20:10.310 why you're so proud of having played against boys? But 0:20:10.350 --> 0:20:13.150 you think like there were so many places you could 0:20:13.190 --> 0:20:15.430 have gone here and none of it happened. It just 0:20:16.060 --> 0:20:19.139 sat there in the middle of this profile. To be 0:20:19.220 --> 0:20:21.520 fair to ESPN, they did. They did fire most of 0:20:21.560 --> 0:20:23.760 their actual journalists in order to give more money to 0:20:23.780 --> 0:20:27.280 a fucking Pat McAfee, a guy who used to be 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:30.820 a hunter, I think. And who now spends all of 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:33.500 his time having fucking Aaron Rodgers on his show to 0:20:33.520 --> 0:20:36.520 scream about why vaccines are bad and why trans women 0:20:36.540 --> 0:20:37.920 shouldn't be able to compete in sports. 0:20:37.940 --> 0:20:40.740 So, like, you know, this is this is truly not 0:20:40.900 --> 0:20:44.280 ESPN's fault. They simply fired everyone who could normally do journalism. 0:20:44.740 --> 0:20:47.500 And now we're left with whatever this shit is. 0:20:48.200 --> 0:20:50.820 Another person whose opinion on trans women in sports, we 0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:52.640 should really be listening to Aaron Rodgers. 0:20:53.260 --> 0:20:57.270 Yeah, Aaron Rodgers. I will listen. I will not agree 0:20:57.350 --> 0:20:59.850 with Aaron Rodgers' position on sports, but if he can 0:20:59.950 --> 0:21:03.649 stay in the pocket for longer than 2.3 seconds on 0:21:03.710 --> 0:21:06.250 two consecutive plays, I will listen to him talk about 0:21:06.290 --> 0:21:06.869 women's sports. 0:21:07.510 --> 0:21:08.290 And he can't. 0:21:08.609 --> 0:21:09.790 He can't do it. He won't. 0:21:09.810 --> 0:21:12.690 God, okay. 0:21:12.770 --> 0:21:14.830