1 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: You're listening to American Shadows, a production of I Heart 2 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: Radio and Grim and Mild from Aaron Minky, pudgy and short. 3 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 1: He was far from handsome. If he had one good feature, 4 00:00:22,480 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: it might have been his striking, pale blue eyes. Some 5 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,720 Speaker 1: thought he was charming, though, and he knew it. Herman 6 00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,199 Speaker 1: Drength had immigrated from the Netherlands with his father in 7 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: and they settled into American life as farmers in Iowa. 8 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 1: But the rural existence wasn't his thing. He had big 9 00:00:40,000 --> 00:00:43,080 Speaker 1: plans and the open roads and growing cities had much 10 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:46,560 Speaker 1: to offer. As soon as he was able, Herman enlisted 11 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,800 Speaker 1: and ended up serving in World War One. After the war, 12 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: he used his charm for a profession far more lucrative 13 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: than farming. He became an Oklahoma oil stock promoter, while 14 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: a funny one anyway, and a bogus career required a 15 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: new identity to match, So Herman Drength soon became Harry Powers, 16 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:09,840 Speaker 1: and also a r weaver and Cornelie's pearson. We'll just 17 00:01:10,040 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: stick with Harry Powers. Maybe the work was too difficult, 18 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: or there just weren't enough people to con especially in 19 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,840 Speaker 1: nine during the Great Depression. Whatever the reason, he switched 20 00:01:20,880 --> 00:01:26,839 Speaker 1: to a more attractive con job, matrimony. Some would say 21 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:29,919 Speaker 1: that love and personal connection are the fires of the soul. 22 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,199 Speaker 1: People will do anything to find it and even more 23 00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:36,800 Speaker 1: to keep it. For most of us, love is a fundamental, 24 00:01:36,880 --> 00:01:41,680 Speaker 1: basic need. For others, that intimate connection is an opportunity. 25 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,039 Speaker 1: Sometimes we're so busy looking into the light in our 26 00:01:45,080 --> 00:01:47,960 Speaker 1: hearts that we ignore what lurks in the shadows of 27 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: a partner's soul. We'll dismiss the signs that ignore the 28 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:55,120 Speaker 1: red flags. The alternative, after all, is too painful or 29 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,160 Speaker 1: too frightening to accept. But if we're honest, the truth 30 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,800 Speaker 1: is much dark her than would like. Even when it 31 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: comes to romance. Here there may be monsters. I'm Lauren Vogelbaum. 32 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:20,240 Speaker 1: Welcome to American Shadows. Before the era of dating apps, 33 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: people looking for love might place personal ads or lonely 34 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: hearts ads in their local newspaper. But Harry Powers took 35 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:29,600 Speaker 1: a different route. He chose to seek out a Lonely 36 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 1: Hearts club, a member's only group where men and women 37 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,360 Speaker 1: found potential partners for a fee, and Harry chose the 38 00:02:36,400 --> 00:02:40,839 Speaker 1: most successful of them all, Detroit's American Friendship Society, which 39 00:02:40,880 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: had opened for business. In annual membership fees were a 40 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,960 Speaker 1: bit more for the men than the women, four dollars 41 00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,920 Speaker 1: and cents as opposed to but he shelled out the 42 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: cash and placed his profile. He exaggerated, of course. His 43 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 1: profile stated that he was wealthy, worth a hundred and 44 00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 1: fifty thousand dollars an income of two thousand dollars a month. 45 00:03:02,480 --> 00:03:04,280 Speaker 1: In case you're wondering, that's a net worth of over 46 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 1: two million dollars today. Powers didn't stop there. No, he 47 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 1: had studied his audience well. He played the sympathy card, 48 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: enlisting himself as a widow, Knowing that ladies were looking 49 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,880 Speaker 1: for someone smart too. He put down his profession as 50 00:03:18,919 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: a civil engineer, and next up was security. I own 51 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 1: a beautiful ten room brick home, his profile read, completely 52 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: furnished with everything that would make a good woman happy. 53 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 1: My wife would have her own car and plenty of 54 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: spending money, would have nothing to do but enjoy herself. 55 00:03:34,840 --> 00:03:37,360 Speaker 1: But she must be a one man woman. I would 56 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:42,040 Speaker 1: not tolerate infidelity. Now, if some of the women reading 57 00:03:42,080 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 1: that had heard the old adage, if it sounds too 58 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: good to be true, then it probably is, then they 59 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,760 Speaker 1: wouldn't have responded, but they did in droves. In fact, 60 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:55,600 Speaker 1: soon enough, Powers was receiving twenty letters a day. But 61 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,120 Speaker 1: there's one thing he left out of his profile. His wife, 62 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:04,080 Speaker 1: his real living wife. You see, Harry Powers was already 63 00:04:04,120 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: married before he had placed his ad. He had answered 64 00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,560 Speaker 1: someone else's a Lonely Hearts ad placed in ninety six 65 00:04:10,760 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: by a woman named Luella Struthers. She was part owner 66 00:04:14,280 --> 00:04:17,000 Speaker 1: of a small grocery store in Clarksburg, West Virginia, as 67 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: well as a farm in nearby Quiet Dell. After a 68 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: brief courtship, they had married in nine seven and then 69 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:25,800 Speaker 1: settled down in West Virginia to run the grocery store 70 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,719 Speaker 1: and manage the farm. I know. I said that Harry 71 00:04:28,760 --> 00:04:32,880 Speaker 1: wasn't the farming type, but considering his newly created dating profile, 72 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:37,000 Speaker 1: he wasn't the monogamous type either. It helped that Harry 73 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: traveled a lot and without his wife too, and all 74 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,279 Speaker 1: the while he continued to receive letters from plenty of women. 75 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:47,359 Speaker 1: Later on, the Postal Service would report that delivered hundreds 76 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:52,080 Speaker 1: of letters to another of his aliases, Cornelius Pearson. Harry's 77 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,279 Speaker 1: extracurricular lifestyle carried on without a hitch for a few years, 78 00:04:55,640 --> 00:04:59,560 Speaker 1: right up until late August of ninety one. Then, on 79 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 1: a hot summer day in Park Ridge, Illinois, one William 80 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:05,720 Speaker 1: oh Boyle stopped by his former landlady's house to pick 81 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 1: up his tools, which he had left behind after his eviction. 82 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,719 Speaker 1: The house seemed oddly deserted, though in fact she had 83 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: evicted him specifically so her new fiance could move in. 84 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,479 Speaker 1: And that's when O'Boyle heard the footsteps. As he watched, 85 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: a man slipped out a side door. Oh Boyle gave 86 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:26,000 Speaker 1: him chase, but the man ran into the nearby garage 87 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,520 Speaker 1: through the door. Oh Boyle asked the stranger where Asta 88 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: and her children were, but the man inside wouldn't answer. Frustrated, 89 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,720 Speaker 1: he tried the door and found it locked from the inside. Suspicious, 90 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: oh Boyle stuck around, attempting to wait the intruder out, 91 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 1: but after a couple hours it was clear the man 92 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: was neither coming out nor talking. Suit yourself, boil muttered. 93 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:50,760 Speaker 1: He locked the door from the outside and headed to 94 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,200 Speaker 1: the police department to let them deal with the situation. 95 00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: When the police arrived later that day, they discovered a pudgy, 96 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: blue eyed man busily removing for an sings from the house. 97 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: A boil identified him as the man had seen earlier. 98 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: Apparently the man had escaped to the garage's rear window. Naturally, 99 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:11,440 Speaker 1: the police wanted to know who the man was and 100 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,960 Speaker 1: why he was removing items from the home Cornelius O. 101 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:17,919 Speaker 1: Pearson of the Fairmont Hotel in Fairmont, West Virginia. The 102 00:06:17,960 --> 00:06:22,280 Speaker 1: man replied, according to him, the ikers had moved to Colorado, 103 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:24,760 Speaker 1: and he was simply helping them pack up their things. 104 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 1: It must have sounded a bit strange to the officers, 105 00:06:28,440 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: but without any real evidence to the contrary, they let 106 00:06:31,080 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: Piercing go, taking his word that he would show up 107 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: at the police station the next day, and oddly enough, 108 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:41,760 Speaker 1: he actually kept his word. When he arrived, he repeated 109 00:06:41,760 --> 00:06:43,800 Speaker 1: his story to the officer on duty that he was 110 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,520 Speaker 1: helping sell the house, and then left as quickly as 111 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: had come. Just to be sure, though, the officers sent 112 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,359 Speaker 1: a telegram to the Fairmont Hotel, and wouldn't you know it, 113 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: the manager there had never heard of Cornelius. But by 114 00:06:57,360 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 1: then it was too late. Harry Power a k a. 115 00:07:01,040 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: Cornelius Pearson was gone. The Parkridge police found fifty four 116 00:07:09,880 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: love letters and asked to Kea's home. All from Cornelius Pearson. 117 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: Every single one of them had been postmarked from Clarksburg, Virginia. 118 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: Let me see you alone. The most recent letter said, 119 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: I will come in the night. Do not let the 120 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: neighbors know I'm coming. Leave all business transactions to me 121 00:07:26,560 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 1: till Monday, dear. They also found a receipt on it 122 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: was a new name, Harry Powers. Intrigued police Chief Harold 123 00:07:35,040 --> 00:07:37,480 Speaker 1: John made a call to the authorities over in Clarksburg, 124 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 1: West Virginia, and, just like at the Fairmont Hotel, Detective 125 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,600 Speaker 1: Southern had never heard of Cornelius, but he had heard 126 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:48,880 Speaker 1: of Harry Powers. Detective Southern stopped by the local post 127 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 1: office and quickly discovered that a man named Pearson had 128 00:07:51,880 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: given his address as one one one Quincy Street, the 129 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,720 Speaker 1: very same address it turned out as that of Harry 130 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 1: and Luella Powers. We're quickly Southern got a warrant for 131 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: the man's arrest. The detective intercepted Powers during his next 132 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 1: post office pick up, assert revealed four stamped and addressed 133 00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 1: letters ready to send to unsuspecting women. Harry also had 134 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 1: a list of names and addresses of over a hundred 135 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 1: and fifty women and a form letter he used when 136 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,920 Speaker 1: contacting them. It seemed Harry Powers was quite the pen pal. 137 00:08:25,120 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 1: The police arrested Powers on possible kidnapping charges. Next, they 138 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,199 Speaker 1: searched his residence in Clarksburg, questioning both his wife and 139 00:08:33,280 --> 00:08:36,640 Speaker 1: his sister in law, Ava, who also lived with them. 140 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 1: They found women's clothing with name tags stitched at them, 141 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:43,160 Speaker 1: none of which were Luella or Ava. Some of Asda's 142 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: clothing and even her silver flatwear were found there. Luella, meanwhile, 143 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,400 Speaker 1: staunchly told the officers she had no knowledge of the 144 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 1: other women nor how the items had come to be 145 00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: found in her house. Harry also insisted his wife knew 146 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: nothing of his philandering, but they detained his wife and 147 00:08:59,080 --> 00:09:04,120 Speaker 1: her sister anyway. After extensive questioning, they were released. Harry 148 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:08,240 Speaker 1: refused to talk, not without a lawyer anyway. He never 149 00:09:08,280 --> 00:09:11,000 Speaker 1: denied the affair, but he swore that had last seen 150 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: Asta and the children at the Chicago train station. Had 151 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,920 Speaker 1: the wealthy widow tricked the con man, was she hiding 152 00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: in Colorado under an assumed name, waiting for Powers to arrive, 153 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: or had Lluella and her sister discovered Harry's affair and 154 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: sought to eliminate Asta. It took a bit of detective work, 155 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,000 Speaker 1: but slowly the pieces all came together, but not before 156 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: things got just a little weirder. According to the letters found, 157 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: Asta had been only one of the hundreds of women 158 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: responding to Powers ad She was a widow with three children, 159 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: Greta fourteen, Harry twelve, and Annabel nine. After a long 160 00:09:50,920 --> 00:09:54,400 Speaker 1: romance by mail, Powers, under the alias of Cornelius, Pearson 161 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,440 Speaker 1: wrote Asda that final letter that the police had found. 162 00:09:58,000 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: He had then driven to Asda's home in Park Rid, 163 00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 1: and after spending the night, the lovers departed on a 164 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: trip together, leaving the children with the family nurse, Elizabeth Abernathy. 165 00:10:08,040 --> 00:10:10,920 Speaker 1: Five days later, Abernathy received a letter informing her that 166 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:12,880 Speaker 1: Pearson would be coming to pick up the children on 167 00:10:13,000 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: July one. The morning after his arrival, Powers sent one 168 00:10:17,000 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: of the children to the bank with a note instructing 169 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: the bank clerk to fill in the check with the 170 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:25,040 Speaker 1: entire bank balance and return it to the child. The 171 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,400 Speaker 1: bank refused, believing the signature had been forged. When the 172 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 1: child came home without the check, Pearson packed the car, 173 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:36,320 Speaker 1: gathered the children and left town. Now you might think 174 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 1: Harry Powers had his hands full, what with the wife 175 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,680 Speaker 1: of fiancee and over a hundred and fifty other women 176 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: to write to, But Powers somehow found time to court 177 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: another woman in person, Dorothy Lemky. Three weeks after leaving Illinois, 178 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:53,680 Speaker 1: Powers showed up at her Northborough, Massachusetts home, where she 179 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:56,960 Speaker 1: lived with her sister and brother in law. He and 180 00:10:57,080 --> 00:11:00,559 Speaker 1: Dorothy had been corresponding rather passionately for quite some time, 181 00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: and so on the day after his arrival, Dorothy said 182 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 1: goodbye to her sister and left town with her new fiance, 183 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 1: the man she believed to be Cornelius Pearson. The couple 184 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,400 Speaker 1: made two stops on their way out of town. The Bank, 185 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,560 Speaker 1: of course, was the first, where Dorothy took out four 186 00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 1: thousand dollars they needed it for their wedding. The second 187 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 1: stop was a railway station where Powers shipped Dorothy's trunks 188 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: and suit cases not to Iowa, though no Dorothey's belongings 189 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,200 Speaker 1: were shipped to his post office address in West Virginia. 190 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: Several days after that, Powers returned home to Clarksburg alone, 191 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: where he picked up Dorothey's belongings and the letters that 192 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: landed him in a jail cell after the arrest, everything snowballed. 193 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: The local paper printed the story, and reader Louise Watson 194 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: couldn't believe her eyes. She immediately called the sheriff's department. 195 00:11:52,559 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: She had recently been to visit her mother in the 196 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: town of Quiet Dell, where she and her mother noticed 197 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 1: that a neighbor, Harry Powers, had built a garage his 198 00:12:00,200 --> 00:12:03,480 Speaker 1: wife's property. It was strange, because who would need a 199 00:12:03,520 --> 00:12:07,760 Speaker 1: garage when there wasn't even a house. Quiet Dell's sheriff, 200 00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:12,199 Speaker 1: Wilfred Grimm, thought so too. You see, the Powers home 201 00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: in Clarksburg was just twenty five miles away from the 202 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: farm in Quiet Dell. Grim immediately filed for a warrant 203 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 1: To complicate things, the farmland belonged solely to Luella and 204 00:12:22,679 --> 00:12:26,120 Speaker 1: her sister Ava, but the garage was in Harry's name. Only. 205 00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,800 Speaker 1: Not long afterward, Sheriff Grimm, along with the deputy State Police, 206 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: Chief of Police, and Detective Southern all converged on the farm. 207 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,920 Speaker 1: The door was locked, but the deputy found a matic 208 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: farming tools similar in shape to a pickaxe, and after 209 00:12:41,840 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: a few wax he busted the lock and everyone stepped inside. 210 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:50,320 Speaker 1: The men, however, weren't prepared for what they found. No 211 00:12:50,360 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 1: one was Powers sat across from the investigators. What's the 212 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,600 Speaker 1: juicy love letters? One of the masked just good friends? 213 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,439 Speaker 1: Harry replied, maybe she went off to marry another man. 214 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:11,320 Speaker 1: Officials had discovered otherwise. At first, the found nothing at 215 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,760 Speaker 1: the garage, no oil spills, no tire marks, not even 216 00:13:14,800 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: a single tool. Well, almost nothing. They found four hairpins, 217 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,880 Speaker 1: and in a darkened corner they found a trap door 218 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,640 Speaker 1: underneath it. Stairs led to a basement with four rooms. 219 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 1: In one they found bloody fabric and hair. Another contained 220 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: trunks full of clothing, jewelry, ribbons, and a blood soaked dress. 221 00:13:38,760 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: In the third a child's bloody footprint. All three of 222 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 1: those rooms had also been fitted with gas lines, and 223 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:50,079 Speaker 1: the fourth one had windows looking into the others an 224 00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:55,320 Speaker 1: observation room. Desperate for a confession, police took a handcuffed 225 00:13:55,360 --> 00:13:58,720 Speaker 1: Powers to the scene. When they showed him the bloody footprint, 226 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: he coolly replied, it isn't this horrible. By one pm, 227 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: over three people had arrived to watch the officials comb 228 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 1: the farm for Asta and her children. While that took place, 229 00:14:11,679 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: a fifteen year old boy stepped forward and mentioned that 230 00:14:14,640 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: had recently helped Powers dig a ditch. Officials grabbed shovels 231 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,480 Speaker 1: and began digging. Within minutes, they came across a burlap sack. 232 00:14:24,360 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: Inside the unearthed the decomposing body of a woman, her 233 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,280 Speaker 1: hands bound in front of her. The crowd, sickened by 234 00:14:31,280 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: the view in the stench, retreated. Later that day, search 235 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: crews found the bodies of Askeda's daughters, each wrapped in 236 00:14:39,080 --> 00:14:42,800 Speaker 1: a sheet, their hands tied behind their backs. Like their mother, 237 00:14:43,080 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: they had been strangled. Asked his son suffered a different faith, 238 00:14:46,920 --> 00:15:05,200 Speaker 1: though for him, Powers had used a hammer. A bank 239 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:08,520 Speaker 1: book from the Merchants Savings Bank of Western Massachusetts was 240 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: retrieved from a fire pit the name Dorothy lem Key 241 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: in it. Lucester Police confirmed that yes, they did have 242 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,200 Speaker 1: a missing person's report for that name. Later, Dorothy's sister 243 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:24,760 Speaker 1: positively identified the body. Powers smug attitude incensed the good 244 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: citizens of Quiet Dell and Clarksburgh. On September, a mob 245 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,840 Speaker 1: of some five thousand angry people surrounded the jail, demanding 246 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: his release so they could deliver their own brand of justice. 247 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,240 Speaker 1: It took two hours to end the standoff, and eight 248 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 1: members of the mob were arrested inside the jail Harry 249 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:48,840 Speaker 1: Power's wept not for his victims, though no. He claimed 250 00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,400 Speaker 1: he was worried that the crowd outside might turn their 251 00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: rage on his wife. The police continued to interrogate him 252 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:59,200 Speaker 1: about asked his personal effects, sobbing, Harry placed a hand 253 00:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,480 Speaker 1: on a nearby bibel, swearing that he knew nothing about 254 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:08,040 Speaker 1: Asta's belongings. But after several hours and an accidental fall 255 00:16:08,040 --> 00:16:11,440 Speaker 1: down the stairs, a black eyed Powers confessed to the 256 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: murders of Dorothy Lemki. Asked to Iker and asked us 257 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:20,800 Speaker 1: three children, but the police suspected more, upwards of fifty more. Actually, 258 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: how many? One officer demanded to know how many others 259 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: did you kill? I don't know? Powers replied, you've got 260 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: me on five. What good would another fifty do. While 261 00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:35,360 Speaker 1: Powers refused to discuss other murders, he did agree to 262 00:16:35,360 --> 00:16:38,920 Speaker 1: tell officials the details about asked to Iker and Dorothy Lemki, 263 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:43,880 Speaker 1: and his accounts were nothing less than chilling. He told 264 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,520 Speaker 1: them he drove Askeda to his farm, where he locked 265 00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: her up before returning to Illinois for her children. Then 266 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 1: he hanged them one by one before turning on the 267 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: gas to finish them off. He didn't say how long 268 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: it took them to die, but he did tell the 269 00:16:57,960 --> 00:17:02,520 Speaker 1: investigators that watching them gave a much pleasure. Thanks to 270 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,680 Speaker 1: the investigative work near the garage, we know what happened 271 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 1: after that. Powers wrapped his victims up, dragged them to 272 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: the ditch, and then dumped the bodies and murder weapons 273 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:16,160 Speaker 1: inside it. Dorothy Limkey arrived a day later. He continued. 274 00:17:16,840 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: He claimed he took his time with her before hanging 275 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: her eight hours, he bragged, and he admitted to depleting 276 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,240 Speaker 1: both women's bank accounts, leaving little doubt about his true motive. 277 00:17:27,280 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: Authorities did eventually find Dorothy's body, but no one else's. Still. 278 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,879 Speaker 1: Women from all over the country began to step forward, 279 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 1: and their stories were all the same. He had proposed 280 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: to them, stolen their money, and then disappeared, leaving them heartbroken. 281 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,240 Speaker 1: At this point, all the authorities needed was a written confession, 282 00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: but Harry refused to give it. On December seven of 283 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,440 Speaker 1: ninety one, the first day of the trial, a number 284 00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:55,959 Speaker 1: of boys stood on the courthouse steps holding up books 285 00:17:56,800 --> 00:17:59,680 Speaker 1: Love Secrets of West Virginia's blue Beard. The title red 286 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 1: referencing the long ago folk tale of a woman who 287 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,560 Speaker 1: stumbled upon her husband's grizzly secret of murdering his wives. 288 00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:10,000 Speaker 1: The Clarksburg courtroom couldn't hold the crowds, so the officials 289 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:12,199 Speaker 1: moved to the trial to the one thousand, two hundred 290 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:16,879 Speaker 1: seat opera house. Their Powers alternated between yawning and chewing 291 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:21,320 Speaker 1: gum before openly weeping. On the stand, He tearfully told 292 00:18:21,359 --> 00:18:24,240 Speaker 1: the courtroom that his miserable marriage had forced him to 293 00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:28,320 Speaker 1: seek out other women. Then he recanted his previous verbal 294 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: confession and complained that his trial was an unfair spectacle. 295 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:37,280 Speaker 1: Unswayed by his dramatics, the jury unanimously found him guilty 296 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:41,200 Speaker 1: and immediately sentenced him to death by hanging no less. 297 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,800 Speaker 1: On March eighteenth, Yo Powers made his way up the 298 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: gallows steps. A deputy placed a noose around his neck 299 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:55,320 Speaker 1: fitting I suppose he even had a crowd. Do you 300 00:18:55,359 --> 00:19:00,440 Speaker 1: have anything to say, an official asked no. He replied, 301 00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: his voice firm as his blue eyes raked over the 302 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:08,160 Speaker 1: crowd before him. At exactly nine o'clock am, the floor 303 00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:12,400 Speaker 1: he stood on opened up, dropping him through. Eleven minutes later, 304 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:23,399 Speaker 1: Harry Powers, the blue Beard of West Virginia, was pronounced dead. Hindsight, 305 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:27,399 Speaker 1: as they say, is today we can look back at 306 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:30,399 Speaker 1: these events and see the cracks, those red flags that 307 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 1: we think we had never fall for. But the victims 308 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 1: of Harry Powers did so. Why didn't they see it? 309 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:41,000 Speaker 1: A lot of it probably comes down to trust. People 310 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,800 Speaker 1: are hardwired to trust others. Our hearts want to believe 311 00:19:44,840 --> 00:19:48,360 Speaker 1: that the people we love are trustworthy. Even when we're fooled. 312 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: We try to make sense of it. After all, love 313 00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: makes us do strange things. Sometimes it's easier to look 314 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,000 Speaker 1: at the light inside of the shadows. We know there 315 00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: might be monsters in the dark, but all we occasionally 316 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: peek under the bed and sigh in relief that there's 317 00:20:03,359 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: nothing there. We rarely look right beside us. Exactly how 318 00:20:08,040 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: many women Powers killed? As an answer, that he took 319 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: to the grave, and while he said only a single 320 00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,080 Speaker 1: word the day he died, he had much more to 321 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: say afterward. Shortly after Power's body had been removed from 322 00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 1: the gallows, Wardens Scroggins received an envelope. Inside was a 323 00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 1: note from the late serial killer that contained eight haunting words. 324 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:35,560 Speaker 1: There are more in West Virginia than Wisconsin. Another question 325 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,640 Speaker 1: that's lingered is why Powers hadn't killed his wife Luella. 326 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:43,360 Speaker 1: He claimed their marriage was miserable, and like his other victims, 327 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:45,959 Speaker 1: she had a bit of wealth, so why not just 328 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 1: kill her, take the money and move on. Officials had 329 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: a theory. When Luella married Harry, he signed a will 330 00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:57,840 Speaker 1: making Luella his beneficiary. Had also drawn up another document 331 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: giving him exclusive rights to his wife's property, but Luella 332 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,600 Speaker 1: never signed that one, nor would she sign a will. 333 00:21:05,320 --> 00:21:08,439 Speaker 1: Apparently his charm only went so far with her, not 334 00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 1: for lack of trying, though, Luella and her sister inherited 335 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:15,399 Speaker 1: their property after their mother died from an unknown cause 336 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:20,560 Speaker 1: two months before Luella's marriage to Powers. Neighbors would later 337 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,320 Speaker 1: mention to the authorities that they suspected Powers had been 338 00:21:23,359 --> 00:21:27,119 Speaker 1: involved in his mother in law's death, but unfortunately, no 339 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:31,399 Speaker 1: exhamation was possible as the body had been cremated. Convenient 340 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: to say the least. Perhaps Luella remained alive because in 341 00:21:36,240 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 1: some twisted way, Powers believed she gave him the perfect cover. 342 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,000 Speaker 1: And while Powers insisted his wife was entirely in the 343 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: dark about his activities, she was the one who paid 344 00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: for that garage. Add in the strange hours and frequent trips, 345 00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,199 Speaker 1: not to mention items she found throughout their home, and 346 00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:58,800 Speaker 1: it seems odd that she missed so many red flags 347 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:03,640 Speaker 1: and one last thing before her death in the nineteen fifties, 348 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,480 Speaker 1: Luella lived out the remainder of her life as a recluse, 349 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: having been shunned by the community, and although the investigators 350 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,960 Speaker 1: could never prove her involvement, they did discover something interesting. 351 00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: Luella had been married once before, to a man accused 352 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: of murder. There's more to this story. Stick around after 353 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 1: the brief sponsor break to hear all about it. We 354 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,600 Speaker 1: hear about serial killers all the time, movies, books, television shows, 355 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,240 Speaker 1: even the news, so just how common are they well? 356 00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: The estimate is that in the United States there are 357 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:52,280 Speaker 1: roughly fifty to seventy active killers, of whom seven to 358 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:56,520 Speaker 1: eight are women. It's also interesting to note that, according 359 00:22:56,560 --> 00:22:59,679 Speaker 1: to the statistics, women serial killers in the nineteen and 360 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:05,439 Speaker 1: twenty centuries rarely killed strangers, and, like Harry Powers, some 361 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,960 Speaker 1: of them prayed on romantic partners. Traditionally, men who kill 362 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:13,200 Speaker 1: their wives are called bluebeards, a name pulled from the 363 00:23:13,280 --> 00:23:17,359 Speaker 1: dark French folk tale. Women who kill their husbands tend 364 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,840 Speaker 1: to be referred to as black widows, hinting at the 365 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:23,280 Speaker 1: way a black widow spider sometimes kills her mate, and 366 00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: many women serial killers have had one other thing in 367 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: common with the venomous spider. A lot of them killed 368 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:39,280 Speaker 1: with poison. Meet Nanny Doss, an Oklahoma housewife whose neighbors 369 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: described her as a happy, friendly woman, always smiling, often laughing, 370 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:50,439 Speaker 1: and like Powers, they said she was charming. In Nanny 371 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: became a widow for the fourth time, she insisted she 372 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,199 Speaker 1: had loved all her husbands, unlike Harry Powers, though she 373 00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 1: didn't always kill for the money. No, it seems that 374 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 1: she had high expectations for her husband's and the life 375 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:10,000 Speaker 1: she thought they'd provide. Reality disappointed her, and all her 376 00:24:10,040 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: men had failed to measure up to those in the 377 00:24:12,280 --> 00:24:14,919 Speaker 1: romance novels she had read, and Nanny had read a 378 00:24:14,960 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: lot of them. I guess you could say that Nanny 379 00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: Doss didn't like how the script had gone so far, 380 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:26,840 Speaker 1: so she killed her darlings eleven darlings in fact, four husbands, 381 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:30,520 Speaker 1: two sisters, her mother, a nephew, two of her own children, 382 00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:35,280 Speaker 1: and one grandson. Some think that her fantasy world stemmed 383 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:38,800 Speaker 1: from her childhood. She was conceived out of wedlock, and 384 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,520 Speaker 1: although her mother had married her father and they had 385 00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: had three more children together, Nanny hated the man, which 386 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 1: was justified. He was abusive to all of them, both 387 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:53,760 Speaker 1: verbally and emotionally. Nanny married her first husband, Charlie, at 388 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,119 Speaker 1: the age of sixteen, and they went on to have 389 00:24:56,200 --> 00:25:00,439 Speaker 1: four children together. Both suspected the other of infidelity, and 390 00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,760 Speaker 1: both were right. Then in ninety seven, two of their 391 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,720 Speaker 1: daughters died of food poisoning, or so Nannie claimed. Charley 392 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,359 Speaker 1: didn't believe her, and soon ran away with one of 393 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:18,080 Speaker 1: their surviving daughters, while leaving the newborn behind. In addition 394 00:25:18,119 --> 00:25:21,200 Speaker 1: to her penchant for romance novels, Nanny began a habit 395 00:25:21,280 --> 00:25:24,640 Speaker 1: of responding to lonely heart dads. That's how she met 396 00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 1: and married her second husband, Frank, in ninety nine. But 397 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: it turned out Frank had a drinking problem, and one night, 398 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:36,560 Speaker 1: in a blind rage, he assaulted her. Nannie's solution she 399 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:40,040 Speaker 1: added rat poison to his whiskey jar. Frank died that 400 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:44,399 Speaker 1: very same night. After that, she quickly answered another ad 401 00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,920 Speaker 1: and married for the third time. This new husband, Arley, 402 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,440 Speaker 1: was also an alcoholic as well as a womanizer. To 403 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: cope Nanny would disappear for days at a time, but 404 00:25:54,560 --> 00:25:56,399 Speaker 1: whenever she was home, she played the part of the 405 00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:02,240 Speaker 1: devoted wife. That is, until Arley died of heart failure. Eventually, 406 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: Nanny Doss joined a lonely hearts club, hoping for better luck. 407 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: There she met Richard, who became husband number four. And 408 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: while Richard wasn't a drunkard or physically abusive, he was 409 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: a cheat, perhaps related. Richard died in April of Ninette. 410 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 1: Still looking for true love and wasting little time being 411 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:27,680 Speaker 1: a widow, Doss changed her tactics. Her husband number five, 412 00:26:27,880 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 1: she married Samuel. He was clean cut and an avid churchgoer, 413 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,760 Speaker 1: but he's strongly disapproved of her romance novels. If only 414 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,239 Speaker 1: he knew just how important they were to her. Just 415 00:26:40,400 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 1: months after their wedding, Samuel was admitted to the hospital 416 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,199 Speaker 1: with flu like symptoms. After diagnosing him with a severe 417 00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:51,640 Speaker 1: digestive infection, he was treated and released. The very same 418 00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:55,200 Speaker 1: evening he returned home, Nanny poisoned him with arsenic using 419 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 1: twenty times her usual dosage. Samuel's doctor found the sudden 420 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: death suspicious, and after an autopsy, there was enough evidence 421 00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 1: to have Nanny arrested. Not only that, but the bodies 422 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: of our previous husbands, as well as her two children, mother, sisters, 423 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:14,560 Speaker 1: and nephew were all exhumed, and wouldn't you know it, 424 00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: all were found to have been poisoned. When asked if 425 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:22,600 Speaker 1: money had been the motive for killing her husband's nanny, Doss, 426 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 1: always cheerful, only laughed at the question. I married those men, 427 00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:37,520 Speaker 1: she said, because I loved them. American Shadows is hosted 428 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:41,159 Speaker 1: by Lauren Vogelbaum. This episode was written by Michelle Muto 429 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 1: with researcher Robin Miniter, and produced by Miranda Hawkins and 430 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: Trevor Young, with executive producers Aaron Minky, Alex Williams, and 431 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,920 Speaker 1: Matt Frederick. To learn more about the show, visit grim 432 00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,439 Speaker 1: and Mild dot com. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, 433 00:27:56,720 --> 00:27:59,760 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or where 434 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:09,240 Speaker 1: every you get your podcasts. M