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Speaker 1: If you have your own story of being in a

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Speaker 1: cult or a high control group, or if.

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Speaker 2: You've had experience with manipulation or abusive power that you'd

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Speaker 2: like to share.

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Speaker 1: Leave us a message on our hotline number at three

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Speaker 1: four seven eight six trust.

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Speaker 2: That's three four seven eight six eight seven eight seven eight.

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Speaker 1: Or shoot us an email at trust Me pod at

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Speaker 1: gmail dot com.

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Speaker 3: Trust me, trust for trust me. I'm like a swat person.

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Speaker 3: I've never lived. To you.

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Speaker 1: Live.

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Speaker 2: If you think that one person has all the answers,

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Speaker 2: don't welcome to trust Me. The podcast about cults, extreme

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Speaker 2: belief and manipulation from two frogs who've actually experienced it.

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Speaker 4: I'm Lo La Blanc and I'm Megan Elizabeth.

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Speaker 2: Today is part one of our two part interview with

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Speaker 2: Zach Comfort, survivor of the Bride of Christ church and

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Speaker 2: creator of the podcast Boiled Frogs, which is all about

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Speaker 2: that group. There are several cults called the Bride of Christ,

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Speaker 2: but Zach's going to tell us all about the man

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Speaker 2: who started this one, Thomas Clyde Smith Junior. He'll tell

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Speaker 2: us about tom background as a convicted child molestor who

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Speaker 2: went to the psychboard and began having visions that led

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Speaker 2: him to start the Bride of Christ Church, which then

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Speaker 2: grew into a full fledged cult.

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Speaker 1: He'll tell us how Tom started asserting more control while

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Speaker 1: the group was in Las Vegas, arranging marriages between people

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Speaker 1: who did not want them, what Zach's parents were like

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Speaker 1: before they joined, and what Zach remembers from his early childhood,

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Speaker 1: and how Tom's control and abuse began to grow more

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Speaker 1: extreme once they moved to a commune in Oregon. Plus

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Speaker 1: how the murderer, a mutilator named Laurence Singleton, nearly came

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Speaker 1: to live with the cults.

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Speaker 2: And next week and part two, we will get into

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Speaker 2: some of the more heroin parts of Zach's experience and

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Speaker 2: also talk about how it all fell apart. Content warning,

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Speaker 2: We will be discussing physical and sexual abuse in these

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Speaker 2: next two episodes, particularly next week's episodes, so be aware,

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Speaker 2: be warned, do not listen if you don't want to

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Speaker 2: hear that Before we dive in with Zach, who I

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Speaker 2: just want to say, is fucking awesome And I can't

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Speaker 2: believe he made this podcast, like on his own, about

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Speaker 2: this group that no one's ever heard of. That is

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Speaker 2: absolutely insane. He did an amazing job. So I'm shouting

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Speaker 2: that out before.

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Speaker 1: We I kept talking about him so much that finally

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Speaker 1: my boyfriend was like, well, can I like be his friend?

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Speaker 2: I know we have to go to I know, I

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Speaker 2: know we should do a cult trip because there are

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Speaker 2: so many organ cults right, so yeah, just have him

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Speaker 2: guide us. Okay, So before we dive in, Megan, tell

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Speaker 2: me your culties.

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Speaker 4: Okay.

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Speaker 1: This story has been going on in the UK for

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Speaker 1: a while. There's this woman, her name is Constance Martin,

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Speaker 1: and she disappeared on the run with her lover with

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Speaker 1: their baby. So it was a fifty three day man

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Speaker 1: hunt for her. They couldn't figure out where she went.

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Speaker 1: They finally found her and the baby was wrapped in

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Speaker 1: you know, plastic left in a shed. Okay, so horrible,

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Speaker 1: But there's more to the story. Essentially, she grew up

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Speaker 1: in a one hundred million dollar home. Her grandmother was

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Speaker 1: the goddaughter of the Queen, so very like into royalty

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Speaker 1: and stuff. Her dad said he kept hearing voices to

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Speaker 1: shave his head and go to Australia and give away

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Speaker 1: his wealth and like live with some tribe and work

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Speaker 1: with Wales, so he did that. She meanwhile, went and

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Speaker 1: lived in Nigeria for three months, so it's called the

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Speaker 1: Synagogue Church of All Nations led by TB. Joshua in Nigeria.

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Speaker 1: She said that she had to stay in a dormitory

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Speaker 1: of fifty girls who are watched over by armguards, starved,

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Speaker 1: woken for biblical readings randomly from her sleep, and made

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Speaker 1: to call the leader daddy, which is a lot Hawzak

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Speaker 1: grew up having to call his leader dad dad. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it just reminded me a lot of how Zach grew up.

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Speaker 1: And then to add on top of it that she

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Speaker 1: she's this beautiful woman. She could have technically had everything

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Speaker 1: that is important, but these cults are so insidious that

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Speaker 1: it overrides all of it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's you.

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Speaker 2: Can have the most money in the world, but if

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Speaker 2: you don't have meaning hmmm or community.

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Speaker 5: Like, you're fucked. You're fucked.

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Speaker 2: If they target you, I mean, it's yeah, it can

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Speaker 2: as we know, as we have talked about many times,

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Speaker 2: it can happen to anyone.

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Speaker 5: Most people probably.

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Speaker 2: Aren't going to end up with their babies wrapped in plastic.

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Speaker 2: It's very extreme, but obviously, like indoctrination is something that

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Speaker 2: we are all susceptible to.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely and they're not clear on how those two different

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Speaker 1: situations played together, but people.

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Speaker 5: Are coming from it. It wasn't like we have to

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Speaker 5: sacrifice our children.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure it doesn't sound like it, but people are like,

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Speaker 1: she was so traumatized by what she'd been through that

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Speaker 1: she wasn't the same person anymore. So ill to say it,

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Speaker 1: they'll be they'll more information, but yeah.

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Speaker 5: I want to hear more about that. You guys.

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Speaker 2: Megan is so up on cult news these days. She's

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Speaker 2: sending me like three cult articles a day. I don't

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Speaker 2: know how she keeps up. My brain can anteleist. I mean,

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Speaker 2: my brain's like, no more color exploding. What's the coldest

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Speaker 2: thing that happened to you? It's not especially cult teat okay,

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Speaker 2: other than just that I'm passionate about it.

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Speaker 4: But so it's your cult.

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Speaker 5: Mama went to couples counseling. Jack and Hyland.

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Speaker 2: Together to work out some little areas that have been

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Speaker 2: sticky for us, and I am so stoked. I am, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, I'm just a fervent appreciator of therapy and

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Speaker 2: also couples therapy to facilitate healthy communication between people from

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Speaker 2: someone who is a professional and has outside perspective and

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Speaker 2: can be neutral.

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Speaker 5: I'm so into it.

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Speaker 2: And listen, if doctor Steinman or whatever wants to start

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Speaker 2: a cult, maybe I'll join. We'll see how well she

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Speaker 2: treats us in our couples counseling.

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Speaker 4: I can't wait to hear how it goes.

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Speaker 2: I meant you listen, guys, highly recommend. All right, that's

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Speaker 2: it for me. That's all I'm gonna say about that.

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Speaker 4: All right, Well shall we talk to Zach.

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Speaker 5: Let's do it.

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Speaker 1: For most of us, learning a second language in high school,

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Speaker 1: our college wasn't exactly a high point in our academic careers.

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Speaker 1: Myself personally, I took Latin in case I ever became

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Speaker 1: a doctor, which obviously I did not.

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Speaker 5: You're not a doctor.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: I took Spanish and I remember approximately three sentences total.

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Speaker 4: Great.

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Speaker 2: But now, thanks to Babbel, the language learning app that

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Speaker 5: Fun and easy way to learn a new language.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I chose French because I am so excited to

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Speaker 2: and the simplicity. It makes it easy for me to

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Speaker 2: practice and feel like I'm actually learning.

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Speaker 1: Also, their lessons are fifteen minutes, which is this perfect

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Speaker 1: bite sized way to learn a new language.

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Speaker 2: And other language learning apps use ai for their lesson plans,

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Speaker 2: but Babbel lessons were created by over one hundred actual

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Speaker 2: human language experts.

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Speaker 2: and German.

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Speaker 1: Plus, Babbel speech recognition technology helps you to improve your

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Speaker 1: pronunciation and accent.

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Speaker 2: e l slash trust for up to fifty five percent

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Speaker 2: off your subscription.

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Speaker 1: Babbel Language for Life.

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Speaker 5: Welcome Zach, comfort to trust me.

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Speaker 3: Thank you, glad to be here.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being here. Thank you so much for

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Speaker 2: reaching out to us. This is a fascinating story. It's

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Speaker 2: a group we've never heard of before, which is doubly

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Speaker 2: surprising because it has the same name as several other cults,

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Speaker 2: the Bride of Christ Church. Can you just clarify which

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Speaker 2: one is the one we will be talking about today, right, Okay, so.

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Speaker 3: We'll be talking about the Bride of Christ Church that

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Speaker 3: was started by Thomas Clyde Smith Junior. There is another

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Speaker 3: one that was an organ They were called like the

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Speaker 3: Holy Rollers, I believe, and there's no relation.

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Speaker 5: There, so okay. And there's another one in Sweden.

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Speaker 3: Uh yeah, I haven't done too much digging in that one,

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Speaker 3: but I did see it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so not Sweden, not the other guys. This

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Speaker 2: is Thomas's Do we call him Thomas or Tom?

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Speaker 5: Tom? Okay? So this is Tom's church? Who is Tom?

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Speaker 5: Who is Tomas Clyde Smith Junior?

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Speaker 3: So Tom or as he was called him in church,

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Speaker 3: everybody called him Dad. But yeah, okay, so he we

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Speaker 3: actually don't know a ton about him from like up

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Speaker 3: until he was about fifty years old. He was in

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Speaker 3: the military, or he was in the navy. He ran

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Speaker 3: like a baseball training camp stuff like that. He worked

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Speaker 3: in a cabinet shop. But the really the things that

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Speaker 3: got him on the radar was in I think nineteen

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Speaker 3: sixty five, he was convicted of molesting his daughter and

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Speaker 3: he went to jail for that and then she was

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Speaker 3: how old I think it was in his fifties.

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Speaker 5: And she was like seven, right, So yeah, so that's

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Speaker 5: the thing.

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Speaker 3: So the story he always told when he got caught,

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Speaker 3: she was sixteen or seventeen, and the story he always

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Speaker 3: told was that, you know, it happened one time when

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Speaker 3: she was seventeen, and it's actually kind of gross. I

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Speaker 3: have a a news video of him talking about it.

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Speaker 3: The interview is asking him, you know what happened, and

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Speaker 3: he basically said that, you know, she came on to

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Speaker 3: him and.

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Speaker 5: She wanted to do it all.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it was pretty gross. But a newspaper article had

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Speaker 3: like his initial court case about it, and it was

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Speaker 3: saying that he had been doing it since she was young,

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Speaker 3: so since she was seven.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, that's so horrible. Okay.

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Speaker 2: Convicted child molester and committerer of incest and rape and

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Speaker 2: then when he's about fifty, what happens.

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Speaker 3: So he gets convicted of that, He goes to jail

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Speaker 3: for a short time, and then he gets sent to

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Speaker 3: a psych word a Tascadera State hospital that's down in California.

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Speaker 3: And while he's there, he gets somehow, I'm not sure

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Speaker 3: how it happened, but somehow they reversed the plea or

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Speaker 3: the guilty plea of rape. Essentially it was just incest

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Speaker 3: at that point. But while he was there, he basically

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Speaker 3: became a Christian. That's his story anyway. And he started

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Speaker 3: getting these visions from God. Like first he was hearing voices,

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Speaker 3: you know, telling him that what he needed to do,

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Speaker 3: he needed to become a minister and start a church,

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Speaker 3: but like the true church, because in his opinion, all

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Speaker 3: the other churches were doing it wrong.

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Speaker 5: This is literally how Mormonism started.

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Speaker 4: Go on. Yeah, false prophets fall.

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Speaker 2: I had a vision all the other churches are wrong.

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Speaker 2: I must be the one to bring about the real one.

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Speaker 2: Why was he in the psych ward like were they

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Speaker 2: just like, oh, he must be insane if he's molesting

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Speaker 2: his daughter. Was there a specific thing they said he had?

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Speaker 3: So I tried to get his psych files, but I

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Speaker 3: couldn't get ahold of those. But I work in a

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Speaker 3: psychiatric hospital, so you do. Yeah. Yeah, so a lot

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Speaker 3: of times you just get sent there for an evaluation

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Speaker 3: or if they think you need to be on just

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Speaker 3: like a higher level of care. They do medicate you

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Speaker 3: in the jail, so it's not like you go to

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Speaker 3: the psych hospital just to get medicated. But I'm not sure,

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Speaker 3: but there's a number of reasons he could have gone there.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what was the seventies, right, I feel like, yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: psychology was not super advanced at that point, so that's

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Speaker 2: why I was like, it could have been anything.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I feel like the voices in the head

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Speaker 4: were probably.

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Speaker 2: One of the well it had, But I wondered if

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Speaker 2: that was something he had been experienced, like it was

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Speaker 2: known about him prior to that point anyway. Okay, so

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Speaker 2: either way, whether or not the people knew he had

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Speaker 2: voices in his head, he now has voices in his

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Speaker 2: head in the psychord exactly.

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Speaker 3: So he started getting like I said, these like voices

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Speaker 3: and visions telling him that he needed to start the

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Speaker 3: true church that was going to take you know, God

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Speaker 3: selected people to heaven essentially, and he said it was

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Speaker 3: going to be like a really small number, like I

257
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Speaker 3: think he said it was going to be eight. And

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Speaker 3: he based that off of like how many people survived

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Speaker 3: Noh's flood. And so when he left the Psyche hospital,

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Speaker 3: you know, was discharged, he went to Vegas and he

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Speaker 3: started kind of like Bible study, like little mini Bible studies.

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Speaker 3: And I mean he's a he's a charismatic guy. Obviously

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Speaker 3: most of these people are. Yeah, and it's not necessarily.

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Speaker 3: Somebody asked me, they were like, so, how did he

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Speaker 3: find the people that followed him? And it wasn't that

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Speaker 3: he found anybody. It's that he kind of like built,

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Speaker 3: you know, the structure, and people came to it.

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Speaker 1: So he built a little family and people who felt

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Speaker 1: lost were drawn to it.

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Speaker 5: Who was the original family though, so they kind of

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Speaker 5: came and went.

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Speaker 3: At first, I talked to a few people that were

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Speaker 3: kind of like the staples, you know, throughout the whole thing,

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Speaker 3: and they were there up until the end.

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Speaker 2: Was it like actual family members or just like people

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Speaker 2: that he knew?

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Speaker 3: Yeah? Surprisingly, So one of his daughters was for sure

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Speaker 3: in there, and she was she was actually a pretty

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Speaker 3: devout follower of his, the daughter that you know, he

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Speaker 3: committed the crime with obviously was not part of that.

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Speaker 3: And then he had a wife he had gone through,

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Speaker 3: like I think he was on his fifth fourth or

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Speaker 3: fifth wife at this point, and his latest wife joined

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Speaker 3: with him. But he ended up kind of having an

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Speaker 3: affair with one of the younger members who was pretty

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Speaker 3: much his most about follower, and ended up divorcing his

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Speaker 3: wife and then marrying her, and they stayed married until

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Speaker 3: you know, he ultimately passed away.

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Speaker 1: Can you tell us really quickly about the cabinets what

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Speaker 1: he saw when he was looking at the cabinets.

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Speaker 3: Oh? Yeah, so, and this is interesting because, like, like

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Speaker 3: because I worked with psychotic people, and I was thinking,

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Speaker 3: like he must have been like kind of psychotic, because

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Speaker 3: if you are like a narcissist or something like that,

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Speaker 3: like you kind of spin a web, but you don't

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Speaker 3: like show people like what you're doing, essentially, But he

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Speaker 3: had these cabinets and he was like he saw. So

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Speaker 3: his story of it is that he was sleeping, he

299
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Speaker 3: woke up from a dream, you know, hearing a voice

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Speaker 3: calling him out to his was his living room. He

301
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Speaker 3: had these stereo cabinets or entertainment center cabinets, and in

302
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Speaker 3: the patterns of the wood he saw. You know, basically

303
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Speaker 3: the story of the life of Jesus the End Times

304
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Speaker 3: was on trooms.

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Speaker 5: Because I've had a similar.

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Speaker 1: Sambion and paintings have done similar things for me.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I was like, he sounds like he was tripping.

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Speaker 3: But so he saw all these things and then he

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Speaker 3: was at a church at the time. He was part

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Speaker 3: of a church I think it was Calvary Chapel in

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Speaker 3: Las Vegas, and he brought it into his pastor. Again,

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Speaker 3: this is all just what he says. Brought it into

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Speaker 3: his pastor, and the pastor told him, you know, this

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Speaker 3: isn't right. Essentially, you need to get rid of it,

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Speaker 3: like sand, you know, the images off these doors. So

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Speaker 3: he did do that, and then the next night the

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Speaker 3: same thing happened.

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Speaker 2: So the pastor believed that the images were really there

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Speaker 2: that he was seeing like it was some satanic thing

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Speaker 2: or something.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, okay, he thought it. I think the way

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Speaker 3: he put it was is they're not from God, They're

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Speaker 3: from the devil.

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Speaker 1: Very interesting, okay, So these these images on furniture reappear

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Speaker 1: to him and he's like, all right, my my minister,

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Speaker 1: is actually the devil are speaking from you know.

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Speaker 4: The devil's voice.

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Speaker 1: So now I have to go start my own thing

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Speaker 1: because I can't trust my pastor anymore.

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Speaker 3: Exactly. Yeah, and he did that pretty often. He would say,

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Speaker 3: you know, other churches they were teaching, you know, like

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Speaker 3: a water down version of Christianity, or they were you know,

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Speaker 3: the anti christ teaching, you know whatever.

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Speaker 2: So right, okay, and so he starts attracting followers. So

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Speaker 2: how how quickly does it grow?

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Speaker 5: How big does it grow?

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Speaker 3: Uh? So it grew to he had like a satellite

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Speaker 3: churches at the time, or Bible studies, I should say.

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Speaker 3: So the main one was in Las Vegas, and a

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Speaker 3: couple hundred people were there, and then you also had

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Speaker 3: like one in San Bernardino, California, I believe, and then

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Speaker 3: another one like you know, other ones like spread out

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Speaker 3: throughout Nevada.

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Speaker 5: Wow, he's franchising.

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Speaker 2: That's like it's amazing to go from like some psych

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Speaker 2: word delusions to like, I have a franchised church in

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Speaker 2: the span of how like how long was it?

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Speaker 3: Uh? Just a couple of years?

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Speaker 1: How I mean the love bombing this man did though

350
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Speaker 1: to attract people, and then the fear he would also

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Speaker 1: put into them.

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Speaker 4: It makes sense that it would spread.

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Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely, and that's exactly what he did to everybody.

354
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Speaker 3: I talk to you afterwards. Who because obviously I wasn't

355
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Speaker 3: around in the late seventies, but the people who recognized

356
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Speaker 3: what it was and then looked back, they were like, yeah,

357
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Speaker 3: he just love bombed you know, the shit out of everybody.

358
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Speaker 2: Basically, do you have examples of stories of how people

359
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Speaker 2: would sort of get even come into contact with him.

360
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Speaker 2: I'm always interested in that because you know, the internet

361
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Speaker 2: didn't exist, Like, how are you actually finding people to

362
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Speaker 2: come to your church?

363
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Speaker 3: Yeah? So I mean the first people unfortunately, like his

364
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:55,600
Speaker 3: first few, I don't know, but like what everybody did

365
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Speaker 3: is people would bring friends, Like that was an expectation almost,

366
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Speaker 3: like especially in the early days, like tell your friends,

367
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Speaker 3: tell your family, bring people in and witness, you know,

368
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Speaker 3: to everybody. So that's how people got in. And then

369
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Speaker 3: they also had these these like pamphlets that they called

370
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Speaker 3: tracks that they passed out to everybody. But they were

371
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Speaker 3: like they were kind of really hateful. So I'm not

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Speaker 3: sure how many people that brought in.

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Speaker 1: Right, You're like scary because he was all about how

374
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Speaker 1: and your damn false prophets whatever it is it.

375
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Speaker 2: Like threatening it like if you don't come here, you

376
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Speaker 2: won't be saved, you will you will burn with the

377
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Speaker 2: evil people.

378
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Speaker 3: No. So I mean that was kind of like their witnessing,

379
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Speaker 3: which I know, you guys talk to some people from

380
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Speaker 3: like Westboro and you know how they like their whole

381
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Speaker 3: thing is just kind of condemning people. Yeah, that's what

382
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Speaker 3: they're It seemed like that's what they're witnessing was doing.

383
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Speaker 3: But when they talked to like individuals, like when they

384
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Speaker 3: were out on the street, you know, talking to a crowd,

385
00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:56,440
Speaker 3: that was kind of like condemnation was kind of the message.

386
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Speaker 3: But when they were like talking to individuals, it was like,

387
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Speaker 3: you know, we love you, we want to save you,

388
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Speaker 3: like you know, come to this place. And then it

389
00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,240
Speaker 3: was really just whoever they got in the door was

390
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:10,720
Speaker 3: kind of hooked because it wasn't just him that love

391
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Speaker 3: bombed you. Like he would come up and you know

392
00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 3: just be overwhelmingly like welcoming, but so would everybody else.

393
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Speaker 3: Like you have a room of like hundreds of people

394
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Speaker 3: that are all hugging you. You know, there's music, everybody

395
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Speaker 3: is like really interested in anything you have to say, you.

396
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Speaker 1: Know, stuff like that, and the kissing can you tell

397
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,520
Speaker 1: us about the kissing Well, was that right away though,

398
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Speaker 1: or did that come like when things started to kind

399
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:34,760
Speaker 1: of get.

400
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Speaker 3: That was pretty early on, and this guy would do

401
00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,359
Speaker 3: stuff and this is kind of why the numbers I thing.

402
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 3: It fluctuates so because he would get like traction, you know,

403
00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,000
Speaker 3: with people, but then he would do something really weird

404
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 3: like and then people would leave. So the kissing thing

405
00:19:51,840 --> 00:19:55,920
Speaker 3: that started pretty early on, but it was somewhat tame

406
00:19:56,160 --> 00:19:58,720
Speaker 3: in the beginning, so like and the tame version in

407
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,600
Speaker 3: the beginning is what it what happened in the end,

408
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 3: like it stayed through without there was like this little

409
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,040
Speaker 3: part where he like tried to experiment. It seemed like

410
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 3: and you know, kind of get away with stuff. So

411
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,359
Speaker 3: it was you greet everybody with a with a kiss.

412
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,240
Speaker 3: He called it, you know, the holy kiss, and you know,

413
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:16,920
Speaker 3: you walk in the door, you hug everybody, you give

414
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,199
Speaker 3: him a kiss on the lips and that's that. But

415
00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,800
Speaker 3: then he started French kissing girls.

416
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Speaker 5: Right including underage girls.

417
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Speaker 3: Including underage girls, and we had a member that uh,

418
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:32,159
Speaker 3: you know, kind of called him out on it. He

419
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 3: was like, hey, man, you know, is is this going on?

420
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:38,120
Speaker 3: Because I guess he didn't attend service the particular day

421
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 3: that this girl was kissed. And I mean the balls

422
00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:43,880
Speaker 3: on this guy was incredible because he did it while

423
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Speaker 3: her parents were sitting like in the front row.

424
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Speaker 5: Oh my god.

425
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Speaker 1: And this was called the conrated kiss was like the

426
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:58,600
Speaker 1: and then the conson traded kiss. Consecrated kiss was the

427
00:20:58,600 --> 00:20:59,400
Speaker 1: French kiss.

428
00:20:59,760 --> 00:21:04,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you were saying that this was because women were

429
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,520
Speaker 2: unable to control their lust or something, so that's how

430
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,080
Speaker 2: he sort of marketed it as yeah, yeah, yeah.

431
00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,439
Speaker 3: He literally would say that, he said he needed to

432
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,800
Speaker 3: do this, and of course everything was like him doing

433
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:19,720
Speaker 3: a service for people. He needed to do this because

434
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,000
Speaker 3: women couldn't control their lust and he was basically, you know,

435
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,320
Speaker 3: meeting that need for them. And I'm.

436
00:21:27,840 --> 00:21:31,159
Speaker 2: Sorry, there's just so many things. So there's so many

437
00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:32,359
Speaker 2: things that are twisted about that.

438
00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 3: Okay, go on, And I'm sure like if he wouldn't

439
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:37,840
Speaker 3: have gotten in as much trouble or as he did

440
00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,640
Speaker 3: at that time, you know, it probably would have escalated

441
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 3: from there. I was going to say, this guy, you know,

442
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 3: called him out on it, and he literally grabs the

443
00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,280
Speaker 3: guy by the face and you know, French kisses him.

444
00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:51,920
Speaker 3: And again this is in front of the entire church,

445
00:21:52,000 --> 00:21:53,720
Speaker 3: like he did almost everything he did was in front

446
00:21:53,760 --> 00:21:55,520
Speaker 3: of the whole church. And then he told the guy

447
00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,640
Speaker 3: that he had, you know, a sick mind and it's

448
00:21:57,680 --> 00:22:01,760
Speaker 3: only bad because he's like filled with sin and thinks

449
00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:02,320
Speaker 3: that it's bad.

450
00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 1: Well, it's interesting because most of these things do come

451
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:09,040
Speaker 1: they are biblical things, you know, like it does say

452
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,360
Speaker 1: in the Bible to greet your brother with a kiss

453
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:12,960
Speaker 1: and then to a.

454
00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:14,320
Speaker 5: French kiss children.

455
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it does say to greet your brother with

456
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:19,080
Speaker 1: a kiss. And then I, like you also said something

457
00:22:19,119 --> 00:22:22,000
Speaker 1: about I think it was Peter started off as somebody

458
00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:26,199
Speaker 1: very bad who was you know, like punishing Christians. But

459
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 1: then he became a hero. And so this leader was

460
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 1: kind of giving himself the same story.

461
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,679
Speaker 4: That's like, yes, I started off as one man, but

462
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:36,240
Speaker 4: now I'm this man, and so.

463
00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:42,879
Speaker 1: He had this whole story around himself that was technically biblical.

464
00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,880
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And he did that. He did that a lot,

465
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,000
Speaker 3: like he always who was the apostle Paul. He always

466
00:22:49,040 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 3: said he was like Paul, you know, he was this

467
00:22:52,119 --> 00:22:55,240
Speaker 3: like horrible man you know, back in the day, but

468
00:22:55,359 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 3: now he's this you know, superboy redeemed. Yeah, reform reborn

469
00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:03,919
Speaker 3: and that he was a profit and you know, just

470
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,439
Speaker 3: like really good guy. But yeah he backed everything up

471
00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,679
Speaker 3: with like scriptures, like when he got people too and

472
00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 3: I don't want to get ahead of myself with questions,

473
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 3: but when he got people to like leave their families

474
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,840
Speaker 3: or do anything, it was he always like pulled scripture

475
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:20,119
Speaker 3: to back the Bible.

476
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 4: Can really really really back some crazy shit.

477
00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 2: Justify a lot of shit from the Bible, good and bad.

478
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,520
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479
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498
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500
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501
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502
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:34,520
Speaker 2: discounts not available in all states and situations. You were

503
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 2: in it when you were a child, right.

504
00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 3: Yeah, Yeah, So I was born into it. It officially

505
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:45,720
Speaker 3: started in nineteen eighty in Vegas, and then I was

506
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,359
Speaker 3: born in Oregon in nineteen ninety in this like really

507
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:52,879
Speaker 3: small town is you know, out in the middle of

508
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,720
Speaker 3: nowhere called Azalea. That's where the church kind of got

509
00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:57,640
Speaker 3: most of its notoriety, like it had some in Las

510
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: Vegas obviously because people thought it was a cult. And

511
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:05,040
Speaker 3: then he made this like prediction that the world was

512
00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 3: going to end, and that didn't happen, so he kind

513
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:12,320
Speaker 3: of sulked off and left but he also had this idea.

514
00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 3: The reason he gave that prediction was because he wanted

515
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,880
Speaker 3: to start a commune. So the world was going to end,

516
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 3: so we need to go be self sufficient somewhere. We

517
00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,760
Speaker 3: need to pool our resources. And like you said, he

518
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,960
Speaker 3: backed it up with scripture saying that it was like

519
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 3: the AX Church. So the AX Church had all things

520
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 3: in common. I think was the was the popular phrase

521
00:25:33,640 --> 00:25:38,359
Speaker 3: that he used. And that's when also more people left,

522
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:42,080
Speaker 3: so again his numbers went back up. Then he was like, hey,

523
00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:44,200
Speaker 3: you should give me all your money and we should

524
00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,480
Speaker 3: move to Oregon, and then his numbers went back down.

525
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 5: So let's go back to Vegas.

526
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,600
Speaker 2: People are going because it's this like lovely community experience,

527
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:55,960
Speaker 2: Like what else is it promising people? You know, a

528
00:25:56,000 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 2: lot of very reasonable people joined this group obviously.

529
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 3: Yeah. Really, Salvation was number you know, number one. Everybody

530
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,639
Speaker 3: believed that he was the only way to heaven. So

531
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:13,439
Speaker 3: like you couldn't go to another church, and if you did,

532
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:16,040
Speaker 3: uh this was later on, if you did go to

533
00:26:16,080 --> 00:26:21,600
Speaker 3: another church, he called that spiritual fornication. And so the

534
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,760
Speaker 3: only way to heaven was through him. So you had

535
00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 3: a profit that was offering you salvation and then you

536
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 3: had this community with everybody and that those are basically the.

537
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,800
Speaker 5: Two selling points, right right, right, Okay.

538
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: I liked the context you gave too in your podcast,

539
00:26:35,480 --> 00:26:37,600
Speaker 1: where you said when it first started, it was the

540
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:40,440
Speaker 1: Cold War, it was the Vietnam War. There was all

541
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: of these horrible things going on that people really wanted

542
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:44,040
Speaker 1: a break from.

543
00:26:44,080 --> 00:26:46,399
Speaker 4: They wanted a new a new world.

544
00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,760
Speaker 3: So yeah, yeah, one hundred percent. Yeah, so you have

545
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 3: you have that environment that's you know, just really on edge.

546
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,840
Speaker 3: And I can't remember who said it, but he said that,

547
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 3: you know, growing up in the sixties during the Cold

548
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,320
Speaker 3: War was like having a gun pointed to your head

549
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 3: everywhere that you went.

550
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 2: I mean, there was an explosion of cults in the

551
00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:07,000
Speaker 2: seventies for a reason.

552
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's happening again.

553
00:27:09,280 --> 00:27:13,600
Speaker 3: No, I have done a little bit of reading. I'm

554
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 3: really interested why it started to like bloom, like the

555
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,520
Speaker 3: cult started to bloom. But I think it does have

556
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,240
Speaker 3: a lot to do with that environment as well.

557
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 2: So totally the Laurence Singleton stuff, was that the highlight

558
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 2: of what happened in Vegas or tell us about the Yeah,

559
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 2: the like broad strokes of Vegas.

560
00:27:27,720 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely so Vegas. He started really inserting or asserting

561
00:27:33,359 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 3: control over women starting in Vegas. So and doing a

562
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 3: little bit of like stripping down your personality, so like

563
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 3: no more makeup, you shouldn't, you know, wear certain clothes

564
00:27:44,520 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 3: you needed to start. Oh, and he would start pairing

565
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,040
Speaker 3: couples starting in Vegas.

566
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:52,880
Speaker 2: So, so he was starting to arrange marriages, telling people

567
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:54,159
Speaker 2: who they could and could not be with.

568
00:27:54,320 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 5: Classic cult leader moves.

569
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: A little questionable pairings like oh, these two black people

570
00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:02,320
Speaker 1: have to be together, and numberone's like why, and he's

571
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:03,440
Speaker 1: like because, and.

572
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 2: You know, well, and an underage girls also being married

573
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 2: off to much older men was something that happened.

574
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and one of the girls actually that's why

575
00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 3: she ran away because she was like, you know, I

576
00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,040
Speaker 3: don't want to marry this old, older guy, and her mom,

577
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 3: you know, told her, no, this is what you're expected

578
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,359
Speaker 3: to do. So you know, women started having to call

579
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,040
Speaker 3: her husband's lord lord. Ye.

580
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:32,399
Speaker 4: That sucks. Same.

581
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: So tell us who Lawrence Singleton was and how what

582
00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 2: he has to do with all of this.

583
00:28:37,080 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 3: Right, So, Lawrence Singleton, he became known for chopping off

584
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,560
Speaker 3: her girl's arms. Mary Vincent, I want to say her

585
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 3: name was, I think it was back in the seventies

586
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 3: maybe late sixties, chopped off her arms. She was hitchhiking.

587
00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 3: You picked her up, you know, raped her, beat her,

588
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 3: chopped her arms, left her for dead. She survived, and

589
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,719
Speaker 3: I think she was actually on the show called I

590
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 3: Survived or there was a show about that. And he

591
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 3: went to jail for about ten years down in California.

592
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 5: That's crazy.

593
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:12,920
Speaker 2: You can chop up someone's arms. I go to jail

594
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,440
Speaker 2: for ten years? Oh my god, I know.

595
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:20,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, And there's a test. You have that kind of

596
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:24,640
Speaker 3: tests people to tell if they're likely to reoffend. And

597
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:29,360
Speaker 3: I'm sure he just scored off the charts because ultimately

598
00:29:29,400 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 3: he did. He did kill somebody a few years later

599
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,719
Speaker 3: after after he was released. But so he did that

600
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 3: and he was released from prison and he served his time.

601
00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 3: But basically the communities in California were like, you can't

602
00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 3: let this guy out, and there was kind of an

603
00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 3: outcry for that. So our pastor Tom heard about it

604
00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 3: and he was like, well he can come live with us,

605
00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 3: So yeah, great idea. He sent him, you know, letters,

606
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 3: he was calling him. They had like communication back and forth,

607
00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 3: and Singleton was going to come move in to our commune.

608
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 3: Like they had a room set up for him, they

609
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,080
Speaker 3: had a house set up for him. You know, it

610
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 3: was the plan was go h. But the news, the

611
00:30:22,480 --> 00:30:24,479
Speaker 3: local news, you know, it was kind of everywhere at

612
00:30:24,480 --> 00:30:28,719
Speaker 3: the point. But at that point the community heard about it,

613
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,440
Speaker 3: and then they they were unhappy, let's put it that way.

614
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:35,160
Speaker 3: They started driving by and shooting at like the houses,

615
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,200
Speaker 3: they shoot at like people when they were out in

616
00:30:38,280 --> 00:30:38,719
Speaker 3: the fields.

617
00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:39,280
Speaker 5: Thank god.

618
00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's that stuff.

619
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 2: We had to shoot at people because Lawrence Singleton might

620
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 2: be going to live in their community.

621
00:30:48,920 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, So it was like it was like scare tactics,

622
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 3: and I mean they they kind of like harassed the

623
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:00,920
Speaker 3: group anyway because we had, you know, after American people

624
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 3: in our in our church and oh that that's another

625
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,560
Speaker 3: way by the way that you know, Tom was very welcoming,

626
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 3: like you know at the time, like there was a

627
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,280
Speaker 3: lot of like racism going on, but he was accepting

628
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 3: to you know, people of all colors and everything.

629
00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 4: But so yeah, no gay people though, No.

630
00:31:19,960 --> 00:31:23,320
Speaker 3: Gay Yeah right, so he was accepting but not but yeah,

631
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 3: so people would harass us already, but then they started

632
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,240
Speaker 3: like shooting at us, and we had this huge gas

633
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 3: tank that I I vividly remember like the bullet holes

634
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,000
Speaker 3: in it. They would shoot at it. It was right

635
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:34,640
Speaker 3: next to the house to try to blow it up.

636
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 2: So you were in this was in Vegas or this

637
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 2: isn't this was an organic We've moved by this point, Okay, got.

638
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 3: It so magically nothing happened and it should have blown

639
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 3: up because it was I think it was like almost empty.

640
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 3: And that's like when generally when you know, the explosion

641
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 3: would happen, but nothing happened. You know, just how to.

642
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 2: Cut they could have they like very easily could have

643
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,320
Speaker 2: and would have caused an explode on the commune.

644
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, did Lauren Singleton ever end up getting to your community.

645
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 3: No, So he was going to, yeah, and I mean

646
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 3: this would probably have a much different outcome if he did.

647
00:32:14,640 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 3: He was going to, but when people started shooting and

648
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 3: doing all that stuff, he said, you know, this is

649
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 3: causing a lot of trouble. I don't want to cause

650
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,680
Speaker 3: you guys more trouble. So you know, I'm just I'm

651
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 3: not going to do that. And I think he ended

652
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:29,960
Speaker 3: up moving to Florida. And then, like I said, a

653
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 3: couple of years later, you know, the police responded to

654
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,160
Speaker 3: a call at his house and he was like covered

655
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 3: in blood. He had just stabbed some lady to death

656
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 3: in his living room.

657
00:32:39,640 --> 00:32:40,800
Speaker 4: So I love it.

658
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,120
Speaker 2: He was like considerate of you guys. He's like, I

659
00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 2: don't want to cause you more trouble. I do, however,

660
00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:47,640
Speaker 2: want to murder a woman.

661
00:32:47,840 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 4: Let me translate this.

662
00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:52,600
Speaker 1: I don't want the publicity for when I started murdering.

663
00:32:52,680 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh yes, there it is.

664
00:32:56,120 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, like I said, I work with

665
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:03,800
Speaker 3: a lot of people like that. Sometimes they have the

666
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:08,960
Speaker 3: nicest people ever know, or that's their front anyway.

667
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:13,239
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, what were your parents like? How did they

668
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:13,760
Speaker 4: get into this?

669
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:18,880
Speaker 3: So? I mean they both had really rough childhoods, and

670
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:24,480
Speaker 3: my mom grew up she I don't know she'd be

671
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 3: fine with this. Her grandfather, you know, molest her when

672
00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 3: she was young, and then her dad kidnapped her from

673
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,120
Speaker 3: her house out of her front yard and basically was

674
00:33:38,120 --> 00:33:42,520
Speaker 3: on the run for you know years with her who Yeah, So,

675
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,000
Speaker 3: I mean she didn't have a great childhood. And then

676
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 3: she actually joined I think she was one of the

677
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 3: youngest members that joined. A friend of hers brought her

678
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 3: to it. So so she had this pretty bad childhood.

679
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 3: Joined when she was young and That's basically that was

680
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,360
Speaker 3: her life for the next you know, twenty years. And

681
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 3: then my dad, my dad had you know, crazy childhood too.

682
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: I I did put it in the podcast. He's he's

683
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:10,839
Speaker 3: the guy talking about like, you know, his upbringing. His

684
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:15,480
Speaker 3: mom was a prostitute and a drug dealer, and his

685
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 3: dad wasn't in the picture. And when he was twelve,

686
00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:24,759
Speaker 3: he actually ran away from home. He took the grocery

687
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 3: money and booked it up to Oregon with his uncle.

688
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:33,360
Speaker 3: And I'm actually going to do a podcast about his uncle, Mark,

689
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:37,840
Speaker 3: who was a very prominent figure in like civil rights

690
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 3: back in the day. And he, you know, he had

691
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 3: a wildlife of his own. You know, people always try

692
00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:47,040
Speaker 3: to kill him. The reason he moved to Oregon was

693
00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:51,080
Speaker 3: because the FBI at the time was killing black panthers

694
00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 3: in the Bay area and he knew that he was

695
00:34:55,040 --> 00:34:57,799
Speaker 3: kind of next on their list. So he moved up

696
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 3: to the hills in uh wow wow.

697
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,799
Speaker 5: And did he join this church as well or no?

698
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:07,520
Speaker 3: No, no, So what happened to him was when he

699
00:35:07,920 --> 00:35:15,600
Speaker 3: when my dad was fourteen, his brother, his cousin killed

700
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 3: their dad in front of him. Yeah, shot shot him

701
00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:26,239
Speaker 3: to death in their room and so you know, so

702
00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,800
Speaker 3: saying that to say he had a pretty bad.

703
00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 2: Childhood as Yeah, your parents were both so traumatized, I

704
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 2: imagine coming into this.

705
00:35:33,800 --> 00:35:35,879
Speaker 5: Did they meet in the group in the church?

706
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,800
Speaker 3: They did, Yeah, and they were one of the arranged

707
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,200
Speaker 3: marriages as well. Oh really, and yeah, and he joined

708
00:35:44,200 --> 00:35:47,080
Speaker 3: the church because he joined the Air Force. And there's

709
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 3: a Nellis Air Force Base I believe is in Las Vegas.

710
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,439
Speaker 3: And you know, again one of his friends went there

711
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 3: and they you know, invited him to come, and he

712
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:02,399
Speaker 3: was pretty much hooked, you know, from the first first visit.

713
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,239
Speaker 2: So what are your some of your earliest memories of

714
00:36:05,280 --> 00:36:06,480
Speaker 2: being in this group?

715
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 5: You lived on the commune.

716
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 3: Yes, so I'll go back a little bit. So they

717
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 3: moved to Oregon after he kind of brought forth the

718
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 3: idea of communal living, and they were there from I

719
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:24,360
Speaker 3: think eighty four, you know, basically until it ended. They

720
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:28,879
Speaker 3: did move around a lot and had different properties. But yeah,

721
00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 3: so we were in Oregon, and my earliest memories, I mean,

722
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 3: they're pretty terrible. I don't know, I'm trying to think

723
00:36:38,239 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 3: of happy ones first.

724
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,560
Speaker 2: I mean, whatever whatever comes to mind, whatever you feel

725
00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,560
Speaker 2: comfortable sharing, you.

726
00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,880
Speaker 3: Know, I just remember being on a farm, you know,

727
00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 3: working a lot. We didn't really play. I remember learning,

728
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,799
Speaker 3: you know, we had these schools, like a school set up,

729
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:00,000
Speaker 3: you know, kind of basic stuff as far as like

730
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 3: the good memories, hanging out with you know, kids, my age,

731
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,120
Speaker 3: stuff like that, and then as far as like the

732
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 3: bad stuff. I mean, do you want to get into

733
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 3: this now.

734
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:14,480
Speaker 5: Yeah, that means up to you.

735
00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:18,560
Speaker 3: But yeah, as far as the bad stuff. One of

736
00:37:18,560 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 3: my earliest memories was one of the older boys would

737
00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,280
Speaker 3: come into my room during nap time and hold a

738
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:33,319
Speaker 3: pillow over my face until I passed out. And yeah,

739
00:37:33,320 --> 00:37:39,640
Speaker 3: he would do that pretty pretty frequently. Yeah, but abuse

740
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 3: was pretty rampant in the church at that point. So

741
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,920
Speaker 3: you know that that old phrase hurt people, hurt people.

742
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,520
Speaker 2: So was it like that top was Tom abusing people

743
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 2: and then they were abusing people?

744
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 5: Like what was the landscape of abuse? Weird question, but.

745
00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,360
Speaker 3: No, no, makes sense. So the abuse started out verbally,

746
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:04,360
Speaker 3: and of course it was again he was doing a

747
00:38:04,360 --> 00:38:07,439
Speaker 3: service for you, like you stepped out of line, you're

748
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 3: going to hell, so he's going to correct that and

749
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 3: get you back on the right path by addressing your

750
00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 3: sin or the wrong that you did. And So it

751
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:20,000
Speaker 3: started out first he would bring you up in front

752
00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 3: of the church and kind of yell at you, you know,

753
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 3: and that was like the punishment. But then he started

754
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 3: getting into like hitting, like you needed to hit people

755
00:38:31,520 --> 00:38:33,840
Speaker 3: to to kind.

756
00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 5: Of like them or keep them in line exactly.

757
00:38:36,920 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, keep them inlign exactly, and that you know, that

758
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 3: tapered or you know, it kind of tapered upwards. He

759
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 3: would i mean the guys. He would punch the guys

760
00:38:48,760 --> 00:38:51,400
Speaker 3: and stuff like that. He pretty early on, actually he

761
00:38:51,440 --> 00:38:56,319
Speaker 3: had the guys hit start hitting the women. He one

762
00:38:56,400 --> 00:39:00,000
Speaker 3: day he said, you know, all basically all the women

763
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,360
Speaker 3: had send who knows how, and that the guys needed

764
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:08,200
Speaker 3: to slap their wives. So you know, in the middle

765
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:11,560
Speaker 3: of a church service, all the women and or the

766
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:14,239
Speaker 3: couples would come up in front of the church and

767
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:15,919
Speaker 3: the guys would you know, smack them.

768
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 2: Oh my god, yeah, wow, okay, gosh. Uh So it's

769
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 2: so it's incredibly physically abusive.

770
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 1: Also, these church services were like five hours long, correct,

771
00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:37,760
Speaker 1: Like yeah, yeah, consuming your way till no sleep kind.

772
00:39:37,560 --> 00:39:41,880
Speaker 3: Of thing exactly. And he was I mean, the stuff

773
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 3: he did. He would do like sleep deprivation stuff, especially

774
00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:48,840
Speaker 3: in the early days. He just kind of part of

775
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 3: the love bombing was he had everyone together every day,

776
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,160
Speaker 3: so every day you were doing something with people from

777
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 3: the church. And then once he had the you know,

778
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,400
Speaker 3: people hooked on each other as on the community, then

779
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:04,799
Speaker 3: he started saying, well, you need to you know, your

780
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 3: family's not coming to church, or you know, your family's

781
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,839
Speaker 3: not listening to me. You need to separate yourself from

782
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:15,400
Speaker 3: your family, and he you know, by whatever means. And

783
00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:18,839
Speaker 3: he eventually had them write letters to their family and

784
00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 3: tell them, you know, cut off contact.

785
00:40:20,920 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 2: With them, especially so classic like over stimulating people, turning

786
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:28,560
Speaker 2: off their critical thinking by not giving them any alone time,

787
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,600
Speaker 2: isolating them from their families, to also like shut them

788
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 2: out from their previous identity and their ability to think

789
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,120
Speaker 2: for themselves. Just all the greatest hits of how cult

790
00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 2: leaders do their thing exactly.

791
00:40:40,719 --> 00:40:44,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, the five hour services, you know, I remember those

792
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:50,480
Speaker 3: pretty pretty pretty vividly. He would just rant, you know,

793
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:53,120
Speaker 3: for five hours straight and not.

794
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:54,960
Speaker 4: Sit down, stand up the whole time.

795
00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, but that went away too, so you know,

796
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,480
Speaker 3: everything was kind of like once he didn't have to

797
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 3: do something anymore, he didn't you know what I mean.

798
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 3: So yeah, so he would stand and he would make

799
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,160
Speaker 3: these sacrifices and he would be loving or you know,

800
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:13,680
Speaker 3: happy or whatever until he didn't have to be, and

801
00:41:13,719 --> 00:41:15,120
Speaker 3: then that would all go away.

802
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 2: Right, So things start getting pretty dark in Orgon once

803
00:41:18,040 --> 00:41:20,279
Speaker 2: kind of get moved there and cut off from the

804
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 2: rest of the world.

805
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 5: You were going to school on the commune as well.

806
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:29,279
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're you're cut off, like completely cut off

807
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:32,239
Speaker 3: from the world. The only people, you know, we spoke to,

808
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,360
Speaker 3: us kids spoke to a lot of the women were

809
00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,560
Speaker 3: people in the group. And at that point, I think

810
00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 3: when I was born there, it had probably dwindled down

811
00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,080
Speaker 3: to about one hundred, maybe eighty two, one hundred members

812
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 3: from three hundred to one point fifty and it just kept,

813
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,920
Speaker 3: you know, dwindling down because when we first moved to Oregon,

814
00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 3: it was you know, people were starving, like everybody lost weight,

815
00:41:55,680 --> 00:41:59,920
Speaker 3: people were boned in, you know, people were working like

816
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 3: crazy hours. You know, they were hallucinating on the job

817
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:03,279
Speaker 3: stuff like that.

818
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,560
Speaker 5: Where's no one working? Were people allowed to work?

819
00:42:05,840 --> 00:42:09,839
Speaker 3: Yeah? So he started when they left Vegas, everybody had

820
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:12,240
Speaker 3: to sell their home, sell their cars, you know, liquid

821
00:42:12,239 --> 00:42:14,759
Speaker 3: a assets and give him all the money. And then

822
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 3: he bought a property, a couple of properties in Azalea,

823
00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:21,000
Speaker 3: and then he started two companies. One was a cabinet

824
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:23,280
Speaker 3: shop and the other one was a construction company.

825
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:24,400
Speaker 1: He loved cabinets.

826
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:27,880
Speaker 3: We love cabinets, Yeah, he did. He was obsessed with cabins.

827
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:32,919
Speaker 5: At least you're covered on cabinets. All the other shit's bad,

828
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,359
Speaker 5: but you got cabinets. Yeah.

829
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 3: Yeah. He would bring people and show you the cabinets

830
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: and be like, do you see what's happening? Like can

831
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:45,480
Speaker 3: you see it? And everybody was like, yeah, I see it,

832
00:42:45,520 --> 00:42:46,120
Speaker 3: but nobody else.

833
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 5: It's the Ash conformity experiment.

834
00:42:48,520 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 2: That's the this experiment that they did back in the

835
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 2: fifties where they would they would have a group of

836
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,960
Speaker 2: people and they would ask them to say which line

837
00:42:56,080 --> 00:42:59,160
Speaker 2: was long longest, and it'd be very clear, there's one

838
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 2: line that's long with them there. But they would have

839
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,040
Speaker 2: they would like plant people to say that something like

840
00:43:04,160 --> 00:43:07,760
Speaker 2: obviously not true about the which line was longer.

841
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,839
Speaker 5: I might it might be shorter. I'm getting the details wrong.

842
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:13,440
Speaker 2: But if someone else said the thing that was clearly

843
00:43:13,480 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 2: not true, all the other people would be significantly more

844
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,600
Speaker 2: likely to also completely not listen to their own senses

845
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 2: what they were seeing right in front of their eyes,

846
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 2: and to just say that they also saw it that

847
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 2: way because people are free.

848
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:27,080
Speaker 5: To not conform.

849
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:30,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, did you see the images in the cabinet?

850
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 3: So no, he never showed me the cabinets, but I

851
00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 3: saw something else. They went on a field trip, I

852
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 3: guess you would call it one day, and the story

853
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,440
Speaker 3: is that they saw these demons in these caves. They

854
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,839
Speaker 3: went to these the organ caves, and while they were

855
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:49,240
Speaker 3: down there, all their lights stopped working and their cameras

856
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:52,080
Speaker 3: started flashing off and they were like harassed by these

857
00:43:52,120 --> 00:43:57,359
Speaker 3: like spirits or whatever. So you know, fast forward years later,

858
00:43:57,800 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 3: I was living with him for a short amount of

859
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,719
Speaker 3: time and he had this these stacks of polaroids and

860
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 3: they were all of like picture you know, cave walls

861
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:09,319
Speaker 3: and stuff like that, and you could see like some

862
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 3: of the members in the pictures and stuff. And he

863
00:44:11,760 --> 00:44:14,560
Speaker 3: caught me looking at him and he was like, you know, DC,

864
00:44:14,960 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 3: He's like, you see the demons and blah blah blah,

865
00:44:17,239 --> 00:44:21,280
Speaker 3: And I was just straight up like, no, I don't,

866
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:28,200
Speaker 3: because I really wanted to see him, because you know,

867
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:30,600
Speaker 3: I had heard the story obviously, so I was like

868
00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:31,880
Speaker 3: you know, where are they? I was like, is it

869
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,680
Speaker 3: in you know, another picture? But you know, so part

870
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:38,360
Speaker 3: of me is like I think this guy might have believed,

871
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:41,280
Speaker 3: you know, some of the shit he was selling.

872
00:44:41,600 --> 00:44:44,719
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah, I mean I feel like they frequently do.

873
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 4: Or even if they start off not, then they eventually

874
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:48,040
Speaker 4: they do.

875
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:51,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, like I am so awesome and write about everything

876
00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:52,240
Speaker 2: that it must be true.

877
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:53,440
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's true.

878
00:44:56,000 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit more about your trajectory,

879
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,320
Speaker 2: Like do you have have this like sort of harrowing

880
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:03,440
Speaker 2: experience on this commune?

881
00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 5: How long did you live there?

882
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,839
Speaker 3: So I was in from till two thousand, so until

883
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,440
Speaker 3: I was ten, and you know, just to break down

884
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 3: kind of like what the day to day life was,

885
00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:17,200
Speaker 3: because if you kind of get like a feel for

886
00:45:17,360 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 3: like what the day to day life was, it doesn't

887
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,800
Speaker 3: really matter where you are. That was pretty much your experience.

888
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:28,799
Speaker 3: You know. For us kids, we worked NonStop. That everybody did.

889
00:45:28,880 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 3: The women were working, the guys are working. He kept

890
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 3: the guys away from everybody else, so he would send

891
00:45:34,520 --> 00:45:37,919
Speaker 3: them on jobs to Portland, you know, in all around

892
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:42,280
Speaker 3: the Portland area and they'd be gone for like two weeks,

893
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 3: so you know, kids didn't see any men except for

894
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 3: certain guys that like the accountant stayed and Tom obviously,

895
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 3: and then like one or two other guys that like

896
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:58,640
Speaker 3: helped Tom, you know around his house and stuff, stayed

897
00:45:58,640 --> 00:46:01,760
Speaker 3: in the area. And the women worked on the farms.

898
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 3: The kids worked on the farms, because the whole idea

899
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 3: was to be you know, self sustainable, so they wanted

900
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:11,680
Speaker 3: to have these like massive farms and whatnot. And then

901
00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 3: as far as like experience for the kids, it was

902
00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:18,560
Speaker 3: you did a little bit of school, you worked all day,

903
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:23,799
Speaker 3: and then you got like pretty severely punished for everything

904
00:46:23,840 --> 00:46:28,920
Speaker 3: that happened. And the I mean depending on the adults.

905
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:33,360
Speaker 3: So some of the adults were a lot nicer about

906
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:36,400
Speaker 3: how they dispersed punishment, and some of the adults were bad,

907
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:40,120
Speaker 3: like really bad, Like they would do pretty horrible things

908
00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 3: to the kids, you know, like to their own kids.

909
00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:45,439
Speaker 3: You know, you could do this to other kids as well,

910
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 3: but to their own kids, you.

911
00:46:46,840 --> 00:46:48,640
Speaker 4: Would think in other person's kids.

912
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:51,960
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely, some of the adults if they thought

913
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,040
Speaker 3: that your kid did something and you didn't discipline them

914
00:46:55,440 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 3: like you should have, and they would they would then

915
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:58,920
Speaker 3: discipline you afterwards.

916
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:02,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, so not even like oh his dad's not around.

917
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 2: I got to do this, but like, oh, his dad

918
00:47:04,760 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 2: or his mom or whatever, his mom didn't do a

919
00:47:06,480 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 2: good enough job at disciplining him, So now I'm going.

920
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:09,799
Speaker 3: To do it.

921
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,360
Speaker 1: My parents' friends want spank me like they weren't in

922
00:47:12,480 --> 00:47:14,520
Speaker 1: the religion, I think, I think same.

923
00:47:14,800 --> 00:47:16,520
Speaker 5: I think not my parents' friends, but maybe like a

924
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 5: friend's parent or something.

925
00:47:17,840 --> 00:47:19,480
Speaker 4: Really, it was disturbing was.

926
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 5: That coming from Tom? Was he like, y'all got to

927
00:47:21,920 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 5: punish your kids a lot.

928
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:30,600
Speaker 3: Absolutely, And because my dad, like my brother says this

929
00:47:31,200 --> 00:47:33,480
Speaker 3: in the podcast. He you know, my dad was not

930
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,880
Speaker 3: very physical in the beginning, like he would barely swat you.

931
00:47:38,239 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 3: But then Tom would always you know, one up everything

932
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 3: and he would say this, like and I talked to

933
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 3: the adult afterwards, and some of them are like, oh,

934
00:47:46,560 --> 00:47:48,480
Speaker 3: you know, you guys got spankings. They weren't that bad

935
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:50,960
Speaker 3: that he would say, like there needs to be blood,

936
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:53,439
Speaker 3: like you have to you know, you have to draw

937
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,719
Speaker 3: blood for like these certain things. I want to see

938
00:47:55,760 --> 00:48:00,240
Speaker 3: blood stuff like that. And like some of the kids

939
00:48:00,280 --> 00:48:02,040
Speaker 3: who got it the worst, you know, they'd get like

940
00:48:02,080 --> 00:48:04,520
Speaker 3: beat with extension cords and they'd like cuts all over

941
00:48:04,560 --> 00:48:07,640
Speaker 3: their body and then they'd like put them in these

942
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 3: like hot epps and salt baths, so like it stings

943
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:11,600
Speaker 3: really bad.

944
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:12,719
Speaker 5: God.

945
00:48:13,200 --> 00:48:16,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was, I mean just lots of stuff like that,

946
00:48:17,080 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 3: lots of beatings. There was like there was like stuff

947
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 3: they would do too, like if you were a really

948
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 3: bad kid, they would take you from your family and

949
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:31,120
Speaker 3: give you to like a more strict individual. And then

950
00:48:31,400 --> 00:48:34,160
Speaker 3: that individual one in particular, I won't say her name.

951
00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 3: She it was kind of like boot camp. Like she would,

952
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 3: you know, wake you up in the middle of the

953
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,640
Speaker 3: night and just make you stand on the wall for hours.

954
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,040
Speaker 3: Then she'd make you go work. You know, she'd wake

955
00:48:46,040 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 3: you up by throwing water in your face, kicking you,

956
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:53,759
Speaker 3: you know, whatever happen. No, No, I I tried to

957
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:58,399
Speaker 3: fly under the radar, like I kind of noticed, you know,

958
00:48:59,160 --> 00:49:02,799
Speaker 3: where it pushed the limit to. You know. I I've

959
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 3: still got disciplined plenty, but I kind of knew, like

960
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 3: I didn't want to go live with these other people.

961
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,560
Speaker 3: Uh they were pretty terrible. Yeah, and but you know

962
00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 3: my siblings did. My two older siblings you know, got

963
00:49:16,520 --> 00:49:17,919
Speaker 3: sent away for years.

964
00:49:17,840 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 5: And uh years years.

965
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, and yeah, I mean you just don't see them

966
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 3: like they're they're gone, like they're miles you know, miles away,

967
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:30,879
Speaker 3: sometimes states away. And uh, you know, as a parent

968
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:32,840
Speaker 3: could because I have a daughter now, I could not

969
00:49:32,960 --> 00:49:35,400
Speaker 3: imagine sending my kid away to be disciplined.

970
00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 5: Well, I'm just so sorry.

971
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 2: This is just so you know, this sounds so traumatic

972
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 2: and hard and sad, but it is.

973
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:47,480
Speaker 3: And when I was making it, I mean, unfortunately, Uh,

974
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,400
Speaker 3: I was trying to like find like a silver lining

975
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 3: in it, and you know, try trying. I wanted to

976
00:49:53,880 --> 00:49:55,359
Speaker 3: like pepper it in. I was like, well, it wasn't

977
00:49:55,480 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 3: like you know, it just felt like I was like

978
00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 3: almost having like a sob story, Like but you know, oh,

979
00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 3: we had to do this and we had to do that.

980
00:50:02,120 --> 00:50:04,000
Speaker 3: I was like, actually we kind of like every day

981
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:04,800
Speaker 3: it was horrible.

982
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 2: Oh no, yeah, I mean I'm sorry for laughing. It's

983
00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:11,000
Speaker 2: just like so it's so sad.

984
00:50:11,160 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, no, I mean it's totally fine. And I

985
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,520
Speaker 3: mean I'm a and I was thinking about this too.

986
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:19,760
Speaker 3: Like the best thing was when we started laughing about

987
00:50:19,760 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 3: the things that happened, Like we started finding like, you know,

988
00:50:24,680 --> 00:50:27,240
Speaker 3: the how mad the adults would get. We started finding

989
00:50:27,280 --> 00:50:29,120
Speaker 3: that funny.

990
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:30,719
Speaker 4: That's amazing.

991
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 3: Yeah.

992
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:32,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, So and.

993
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 3: I mean, and it helped, Like you know, it kind

994
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:37,319
Speaker 3: of changes your outlook on everything, because if you are

995
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 3: in there and you're thinking this is horrible, you know,

996
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 3: it just puts you in a really dark place. But

997
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,080
Speaker 3: if you, you know, if you can like lighten it

998
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:49,000
Speaker 3: up somehow, especially when you have no control over it, yeah,

999
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 3: it makes your It may not make the experience better,

1000
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 3: but it makes your mindset better.

1001
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 2: I'm curious about your relationship with your parents while all

1002
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,080
Speaker 2: of this was happening. Were you guys close and did

1003
00:51:02,120 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 2: you believe in it? I know those are two separate questions.

1004
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:10,440
Speaker 3: I'll answer to the second one first. Yes. The short

1005
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 3: answer is yes, I believed in it because I literally

1006
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,840
Speaker 3: didn't know anything else. Yeah, but that only lasts so long,

1007
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 3: Like you know, even I think it was like nine

1008
00:51:20,680 --> 00:51:22,520
Speaker 3: or ten when I was kind of like, I think

1009
00:51:22,560 --> 00:51:26,399
Speaker 3: this is kind of horseshit. But at first I did

1010
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,479
Speaker 3: believe in it, and that kind of made it hard

1011
00:51:28,520 --> 00:51:32,799
Speaker 3: because everything that was happening you believed was like, you know,

1012
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 3: this was from God, like this is supposed to be happening.

1013
00:51:36,760 --> 00:51:39,239
Speaker 3: You're kind of like the reason things are happening are

1014
00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:41,480
Speaker 3: because what you did, not because somebody else is doing

1015
00:51:41,520 --> 00:51:44,040
Speaker 3: them to you, like you messed up, so you deserve

1016
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 3: this kind of thing, right, But my relationship with my

1017
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:50,480
Speaker 3: parents was not good. I didn't see my dad a lot,

1018
00:51:50,560 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 3: and when I did, you know, I was basically getting

1019
00:51:54,320 --> 00:51:58,400
Speaker 3: getting beat for things. They would write like a list

1020
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 3: of all the things you did during the week, and

1021
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:04,520
Speaker 3: then the men would get home. There was the men,

1022
00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:07,799
Speaker 3: the women, the pastor the kids. So when the men

1023
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 3: got home, you got punishments were dealt out basically fun.

1024
00:52:12,960 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 4: This is literally hell.

1025
00:52:14,520 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it wasn't fun. But so no, didn't have a

1026
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:24,080
Speaker 3: good relationship with my dad because of that, because every

1027
00:52:24,080 --> 00:52:26,200
Speaker 3: time you saw him it was like just not good.

1028
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:31,279
Speaker 3: And then with my mom, you just don't like the

1029
00:52:31,320 --> 00:52:33,040
Speaker 3: things that are happening to you. And when you don't

1030
00:52:33,080 --> 00:52:35,400
Speaker 3: like the things that are happening to you, it's hard

1031
00:52:35,480 --> 00:52:39,400
Speaker 3: to you know, correlate good emotions with the people that

1032
00:52:39,440 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 3: are around you at that time. You know. Yeah, but

1033
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,799
Speaker 3: things got really disconnected for me personally. Things got really

1034
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:53,880
Speaker 3: disconnected when they kind of gave me a way to

1035
00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 3: go to live with the pastor and I kind of

1036
00:52:57,320 --> 00:52:59,959
Speaker 3: I had a feeling like by the time he brought

1037
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,000
Speaker 3: me to his house and This happened to all the kids,

1038
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 3: So I'm not like special in any way. This happened

1039
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:08,360
Speaker 3: to all the kids. He brought them. He would basically say,

1040
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:11,160
Speaker 3: instead of waiting for a parent to give him a kid,

1041
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:13,759
Speaker 3: because he cycled through him, like a kid would come

1042
00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:16,080
Speaker 3: over for like a month, two months, and then he

1043
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 3: would say, you know, they're terrible. Or he said one

1044
00:53:20,120 --> 00:53:22,239
Speaker 3: girl was lusting after him, a five year old.

1045
00:53:22,320 --> 00:53:22,839
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

1046
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,840
Speaker 3: Yeah. He said she would like, you know, rub herself

1047
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,200
Speaker 3: on him and like masturbate, and she was lusting after

1048
00:53:30,280 --> 00:53:31,880
Speaker 3: him and all this stuff and made her come up

1049
00:53:31,920 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 3: in front of the church and say how I'm unfortunately

1050
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:40,160
Speaker 3: I'm serious and say how she was like thinking these

1051
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:44,480
Speaker 3: like dirty things about him. God, And uh so I knew.

1052
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:45,759
Speaker 3: I was like, oh man, if I have to live

1053
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:48,600
Speaker 3: with this guy, it's not going to be fun. And

1054
00:53:49,719 --> 00:53:51,480
Speaker 3: he was he was kind of looking at me, and

1055
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 3: he was he was talking to me like for the

1056
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:55,000
Speaker 3: weeks leading up to it, he was talking to me,

1057
00:53:55,080 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 3: and like, looking back, I kind of realized it is

1058
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:02,279
Speaker 3: like grooming behavior. And then, you know, one day in

1059
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:04,960
Speaker 3: church he was like, you know, asked me to stand up,

1060
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:07,440
Speaker 3: and then he said, uh, you know, do you do

1061
00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 3: you want to beat my son? And you know you

1062
00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:13,960
Speaker 3: can't say no. So I was like sure, and he

1063
00:54:14,040 --> 00:54:16,759
Speaker 3: was like, Okay, you're coming home with me, So I went.

1064
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:18,279
Speaker 3: I went home with him, but I just kind of

1065
00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 3: remember like looking at my parents to be like, you

1066
00:54:21,000 --> 00:54:25,640
Speaker 3: know you're gonna do anything about this, and you know nothing,

1067
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 3: So I kind of I felt very detached at that moment.

1068
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:37,440
Speaker 3: And then I mean, really hasn't been better since. I mean, yeah, yeah,

1069
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,399
Speaker 3: things are, things are better. I shouldn't say that things

1070
00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,960
Speaker 3: are better now. They're better with my dad, especially because

1071
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:47,640
Speaker 3: like he just kind of stopped like once he left,

1072
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 3: like things were bad for a little while him and

1073
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:56,239
Speaker 3: my mom got divorced, but he just stopped all discipline

1074
00:54:56,400 --> 00:55:00,880
Speaker 3: basically and kind of became a different person. And then

1075
00:55:01,520 --> 00:55:04,040
Speaker 3: my mom did too. But I mean we still bumped

1076
00:55:04,040 --> 00:55:06,080
Speaker 3: heads a lot of times, and just when you have

1077
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:09,200
Speaker 3: that kind of background, anytime you bump heads, it just

1078
00:55:09,200 --> 00:55:12,279
Speaker 3: seems so much more severe than it really is. So

1079
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,080
Speaker 3: there was never really any reconnection.

1080
00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:19,040
Speaker 2: Okay, that is the conclusion of part one with Zach.

1081
00:55:19,120 --> 00:55:23,600
Speaker 2: Stay tuned for next week. It gets very serious, but

1082
00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 2: it is very good. He's amazing, So that'll be next week.

1083
00:55:29,080 --> 00:55:32,640
Speaker 2: Until then, Megan, I know you probably would not join

1084
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 2: Tom's group, but is there anything about this group that

1085
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 2: you identify with or that speaks to you?

1086
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:43,400
Speaker 4: Oh my god? The seeing images in the wood.

1087
00:55:44,160 --> 00:55:47,400
Speaker 1: Something tell me more something that I have done for

1088
00:55:47,440 --> 00:55:52,280
Speaker 1: a very long time. Granted it's not usually entire scenes. However,

1089
00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,840
Speaker 1: if I am on drugs, it will be so ambient.

1090
00:55:56,280 --> 00:55:59,440
Speaker 1: Was very fun to look at paintings. I would get messages.

1091
00:56:00,360 --> 00:56:01,520
Speaker 4: Thank god. I didn't think.

1092
00:56:01,400 --> 00:56:04,560
Speaker 1: These messages were meant for anyone but myself. And when

1093
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:06,480
Speaker 1: I woke up in the morning, I also didn't think

1094
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:07,320
Speaker 1: they were for myself.

1095
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:07,920
Speaker 5: Oh good, but.

1096
00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:10,759
Speaker 4: Definitely.

1097
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:14,400
Speaker 1: And I'm the kind of person who's like, oh my gosh,

1098
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:16,840
Speaker 1: there's a rabbit in the marble of our bathroom.

1099
00:56:16,920 --> 00:56:19,479
Speaker 4: And then every day we'll be like, can you see

1100
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:20,520
Speaker 4: the rabbit? Can you see that?

1101
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:22,759
Speaker 1: And then there's the person looking at the rabbit, and

1102
00:56:22,800 --> 00:56:24,839
Speaker 1: like finally the person will be like yeah, I mean

1103
00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 1: the person my boyfriend, the only other person in our bathroom,

1104
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:29,279
Speaker 1: will be like, yeah, I guess I see it, And

1105
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:29,759
Speaker 1: you know.

1106
00:56:30,280 --> 00:56:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah that kind of I I yeah, I mean, listen,

1107
00:56:34,160 --> 00:56:35,440
Speaker 2: we all see things in shapes.

1108
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:38,000
Speaker 5: We stare at the clouds. We see beautiful images.

1109
00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:42,840
Speaker 2: I remember on mushrooms one time the tiles in my

1110
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:45,480
Speaker 2: boyfriend at the times bathroom.

1111
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,000
Speaker 5: Were oh well, the tiles.

1112
00:56:47,640 --> 00:56:50,520
Speaker 2: Were speaking to me. But then on the TV there

1113
00:56:50,560 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 2: were these what were they? It was some kind of

1114
00:56:53,200 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 2: sea creature on you know how it has that like

1115
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:57,160
Speaker 2: screensaver thing.

1116
00:56:57,239 --> 00:57:00,160
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's like the sea or whatever there was. I'm

1117
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:00,839
Speaker 5: kind of sea creature.

1118
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:03,280
Speaker 2: I'm forgetting what it was, but I thought they looked

1119
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:08,000
Speaker 2: like women's torsos, and the women's torsos were tell were

1120
00:57:08,120 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 2: like reaching out to me and telling me that they

1121
00:57:10,200 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 2: loved me because I felt so unloved by my boyfriend

1122
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 2: at the time, and the feminine energy of the women,

1123
00:57:16,480 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 2: I was like, I need female energy. Was it was

1124
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,280
Speaker 2: embracing me and telling me that I was loved. So

1125
00:57:21,360 --> 00:57:24,480
Speaker 2: that's nice. That's my experience with seeing that. I'm assuming

1126
00:57:24,680 --> 00:57:25,760
Speaker 2: these were sea horses.

1127
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 5: Was it seahorses? I don't think it was. I think

1128
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,080
Speaker 5: it was like something, well, other.

1129
00:57:31,080 --> 00:57:33,680
Speaker 4: Fish has a torso, oh, a jellyfish.

1130
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:37,560
Speaker 2: Maybe it looked like it just like had a general God,

1131
00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:40,560
Speaker 2: I can't remember, I will find it. It had the

1132
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:43,800
Speaker 2: general like hourglass shape, but that was like the entire

1133
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:46,840
Speaker 2: shape of the thing. I don't remember it having anyway,

1134
00:57:46,920 --> 00:57:48,840
Speaker 2: whatever it was, I will figure it out and I

1135
00:57:48,880 --> 00:57:50,400
Speaker 2: will keep you out. I'll post it because I know

1136
00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:51,800
Speaker 2: you're all diet, you know.

1137
00:57:55,600 --> 00:57:57,520
Speaker 5: In any case, I was like.

1138
00:57:57,480 --> 00:58:00,240
Speaker 2: I need women who can talk about feelings and make

1139
00:58:00,280 --> 00:58:01,880
Speaker 2: me feel like I'm not a freak.

1140
00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:05,080
Speaker 4: Ah Well, I hope you feel more connected.

1141
00:58:04,640 --> 00:58:06,560
Speaker 5: These days, very much, so thank you.

1142
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,000
Speaker 2: Shout out to Couples Counseling woo boo.

1143
00:58:10,240 --> 00:58:12,360
Speaker 1: Well, thank you guys so much for joining us for

1144
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:14,800
Speaker 1: another week. Can't wait to see you again next week.

1145
00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:17,680
Speaker 1: As always, remember to follow your gut, watch out for

1146
00:58:17,720 --> 00:58:18,840
Speaker 1: red flags.

1147
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:21,360
Speaker 4: And never ever trust me.

1148
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:22,280
Speaker 1: Guys.

1149
00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:29,160
Speaker 2: I Trust Me as produced by Kirsten Woodward, Gabby Rapp

1150
00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 2: and Steve Delemator.

1151
00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 4: With special thanks to Stacy Para.

1152
00:58:32,200 --> 00:58:34,640
Speaker 5: And our theme song was composed by Holly amber Church.

1153
00:58:34,840 --> 00:58:37,720
Speaker 1: You can find us on Instagram at trust Me Podcast,

1154
00:58:37,920 --> 00:58:42,040
Speaker 1: Twitter at trust Me Cult Pod, or on TikTok at trust.

1155
00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:43,000
Speaker 4: Me Cult Podcast.

1156
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:46,520
Speaker 2: I'm Oola Lola on Instagram and Ola Lola on Twitter.

1157
00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 1: And I am Megan Elizabeth eleven on Instagram and Babraham

1158
00:58:50,000 --> 00:58:51,040
Speaker 1: Hicks on Twitter.

1159
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:53,479
Speaker 5: Remember to rate and review and spread the word