1 00:00:03,720 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: But I do think parents, kids, coaches, administrators, they have 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:12,080 Speaker 1: to be aware of the double edged sword that singular 3 00:00:12,119 --> 00:00:16,800 Speaker 1: focus really is. Over time, you'll find that success to 4 00:00:17,000 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: tentative success is enhanced by diversity of experience a prioritizing 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: mental wellness alongside physical development. This is the Reformed Sports Project, 6 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:31,639 Speaker 1: a podcast about restoring healthy balance and perspective in all 7 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: areas of sports through education and advocacy. Hi, this is 8 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,720 Speaker 1: Nick Bonacoor from the Reformed Sports Project podcast. Joining us 9 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 1: today is longtime athlete agent and advocate Peter Carlyle. Peter 10 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 1: is the managing director of Octagon's Olympics and Action Sports Division, 11 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: the leading Olympic representation agency in the industry. Their roster 12 00:00:50,240 --> 00:00:53,200 Speaker 1: includes the likes of Michael Phelps, Simon Biles, and many 13 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:55,800 Speaker 1: other Olympic legends. Peter and I dive into the film 14 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: The Weight of Gold that he executive produced with Phelps. 15 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 1: We also dive into the import of prioritizing mental health 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,720 Speaker 1: from a young age and how to empower parents to 17 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:07,759 Speaker 1: make informed decisions regarding youth sports. Man, I am freaking 18 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,120 Speaker 1: extra fired up. I have my I want to call 19 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 1: my mentor. I don't know if he'll let me say that, 20 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: but I'm gonna say it. Um extremely honored to have 21 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: him on the podcast, but he is a Reformed Sports 22 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: Project Advisory board member. He has been extremely helpful from 23 00:01:21,440 --> 00:01:24,760 Speaker 1: the beginning and uh, we probably wouldn't even be recording 24 00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:26,640 Speaker 1: this thing if it weren't for him being behind the 25 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:29,119 Speaker 1: scenes helping out so much. So really excited to have them. Peter, 26 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 1: my man, my mentor thank you for coming on. Great touch. Well, 27 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,360 Speaker 1: I appreciate it, man, And I want to give a 28 00:01:36,400 --> 00:01:38,600 Speaker 1: little backstory because sometimes people ask like, how did you 29 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,040 Speaker 1: get involved with Octa gon and YadA, YadA, YadA, So 30 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 1: to peel back a little bit of the layers of 31 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,759 Speaker 1: the onion and not be you know, too long winded here. 32 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: My brother in law was a swimmer. I never swim 33 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:49,960 Speaker 1: in my life. He swim. He's a Hall of Famer 34 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 1: at University of Arizona. Make a long story short. He 35 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: connects me to Frank Bush, who at one point was 36 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,880 Speaker 1: his coach at Arizona was also the head coach of 37 00:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 1: USA Olympic Swimming for a period of time, and from 38 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: that relationship I connected with Bob Bowman, who also is 39 00:02:05,720 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: a Reformed Sports Project Advisory Board member, and through Coach Bowman, 40 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:12,760 Speaker 1: I was really determined to I wanted to interview Michael Phelps, 41 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 1: and I asked Coach Bowman, coach, how can I interview Phelps? 42 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:16,799 Speaker 1: And he said, the only way to get to talk 43 00:02:16,840 --> 00:02:18,519 Speaker 1: to Phelps, did you got to speak to his agent, 44 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:22,840 Speaker 1: Peter Carlile. So I ferociously attempted to reach Peter. In 45 00:02:22,919 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: fact I did, and I was able to get a 46 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: response from and I you know, kind of gave him 47 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:28,520 Speaker 1: some backstory of what I was trying to do with 48 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 1: the Reformed Sports Project. And and just from that little engagement, 49 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:34,720 Speaker 1: here we are, you know, to some plus years later. 50 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:36,720 Speaker 1: And Peter, what I want to ask you is what 51 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: moved you to want to get involved or to be 52 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:42,880 Speaker 1: supportive with Reformed Sports Project? And I mean just from 53 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 1: the whole year background in youth sports and what you 54 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:47,880 Speaker 1: do as an agent. Well, I think initially, you know, 55 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 1: as you say, Bob put us in touch and uh, 56 00:02:51,080 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 1: you know, and that's something that happens pretty frequently. A 57 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: lot of people do want to speak to Michael. But 58 00:02:55,560 --> 00:02:58,720 Speaker 1: when I read through sort of the you know, the 59 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: trust of what you want to talk about, that piqued 60 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:05,079 Speaker 1: my interest and the reason for that is I've been 61 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,560 Speaker 1: working with athletes, Olympic athletes in particular, for I mean, 62 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:12,960 Speaker 1: she's almost twenty five years now, and uh, you know, 63 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: and through that experience, I mean, the overwhelming majority of 64 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 1: these athletes, UM, while they have amazing experiences, incredible opportunities 65 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:28,640 Speaker 1: that so many people would covet, they also encounter, you know, 66 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: a lot of difficulties. And over that period of time, 67 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:35,680 Speaker 1: I began to see the you know, the similarity among 68 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 1: these challenges that athletes would face and uh, you know, 69 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 1: and I realized that a good part of that was 70 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 1: attributable to the you know, singular focus that elite athletes 71 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: often have and the challenges that that creates after their 72 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 1: competitive career, you know, as they try to kind of 73 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,480 Speaker 1: transition to civilian life, so to speak. And uh, and 74 00:03:58,520 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 1: so when you and I first spoke, Nick, you know, 75 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 1: it was clear to me that you were onto something. 76 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:09,559 Speaker 1: You were focused on the imbalance, uh in youth sports primarily, 77 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 1: but I think a lot of your focus also extended 78 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 1: up even through you know, college athletics, and from my standpoint, 79 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: it really applied to professional sports as well and elite sports. 80 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: And so when we when we spoke it became very 81 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:28,880 Speaker 1: clear to me that your passion is well is uh incredible. 82 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: I mean we had an initial conversation and then I 83 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,880 Speaker 1: started to follow your Twitter feed and you know, your 84 00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,640 Speaker 1: different posts, and I think we I mean, correct me 85 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:39,719 Speaker 1: if I'm wrong, but we just sort of stayed in 86 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: touch for about a year and uh, you know, and 87 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: at at a certain point I concluded, Look, this guy 88 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: is super passionate and extremely driven. Um, and somehow you 89 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 1: have a way of reaching just about anybody that you 90 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 1: want to talk to. And I thought that that would 91 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,039 Speaker 1: be hugely valuable, you know, to the world of sports, 92 00:05:04,040 --> 00:05:07,839 Speaker 1: frankly to youth sports, but also even at the elite level. 93 00:05:07,880 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: When we're talking about Michael, I mean, these are things 94 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: that he still thinks about and these are sort of 95 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:17,279 Speaker 1: issues that will affect his kids and so, um, you know, 96 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: I think it's important work you're doing and uh, and 97 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: it's become important work that we're doing. And it just 98 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:25,680 Speaker 1: so happened to coincide with the timing of you know, 99 00:05:25,839 --> 00:05:27,839 Speaker 1: you had worked on I remember you gave me the 100 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:30,920 Speaker 1: privilege to watch Weight of Gold even before it went live, 101 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 1: and you know, you were working on that and developing 102 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: that project and what moved you. I mean, for those 103 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,520 Speaker 1: of you who haven't seen the HBO documentary Way of 104 00:05:38,520 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 1: Gold Peters executive producer, and it's just it's an amazing piece. 105 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: What kind of spawned the desire to want to put 106 00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: that work out there because it seems like it really 107 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: ties into kind of the whole Reformed Sports Project mission. 108 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,240 Speaker 1: I think it absolutely does. I mean it sort of 109 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,599 Speaker 1: attacks it from from a different angle. But you know, 110 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: when when Michael went through real difficulties in and he 111 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: went to treatment and came out of treatment with this, 112 00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:10,280 Speaker 1: you know, a real sense of self and a commitment 113 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: to to try to make a difference, you know, in 114 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: the world of mental health, and in particular, you know, 115 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,400 Speaker 1: for athletes, because as I said, there's a commonality among 116 00:06:18,480 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: athletes in terms of the you know, the effects of 117 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,080 Speaker 1: singular focus and you know, just the sort of unique 118 00:06:25,120 --> 00:06:29,239 Speaker 1: lifestyle that elite athletes live. And so when Michael finished 119 00:06:29,320 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: up in and the Real Olympics, literally the day he sentished, 120 00:06:33,880 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: he called me and I was in Real and this 121 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,360 Speaker 1: is how it, you know, went with each of the 122 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:41,280 Speaker 1: Olympics that he competed. And I mean once he's finished 123 00:06:41,320 --> 00:06:44,120 Speaker 1: with you know, week and a half of competition them. 124 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: You know, he and I connect and we you know, 125 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: we move on from there, first of the games and 126 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: then wherever else were headed. So you know, that was 127 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 1: a that was a fairly you know, there's a predicted conversation, 128 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,400 Speaker 1: but the substance of it was unique. And what he 129 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,600 Speaker 1: said was, hey, you know, last night, I was, you know, 130 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,520 Speaker 1: on the metal stand with these you know, with these 131 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 1: kids really and you know, I've been through all of 132 00:07:05,760 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: this and now I'm sort of this, you know, the 133 00:07:07,440 --> 00:07:10,600 Speaker 1: older brother figure on the team, and I just looked 134 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 1: at these kids and I and I thought to myself, 135 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 1: you guys have no idea what you're in for. And so, 136 00:07:16,200 --> 00:07:19,440 Speaker 1: you know, Michael concluded at that time that he needed 137 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 1: to do something about this. He needed to you know, 138 00:07:22,200 --> 00:07:26,200 Speaker 1: to raise awareness and to try to somehow provide some 139 00:07:26,360 --> 00:07:30,480 Speaker 1: support to athletes, Olympic athletes in particular, that we're likely 140 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 1: to go through some of the struggles that he went through. 141 00:07:33,480 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 1: And so, you know, from that point on that became 142 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: a huge priority for us, and we concluded that perhaps 143 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: the best way to you know, get that message out 144 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,000 Speaker 1: and to raise awareness would be to assemble some other 145 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: really high profile athletes olympians who had encountered some of 146 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 1: the same difficulties and that we're willing to talk about it, 147 00:07:54,280 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: and that wanted to make a difference. And you know, 148 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 1: to our surprise, I guess to a agree, almost every 149 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: athlete that Michael spoke with or that we spoke with 150 00:08:04,600 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 1: was eager to participate for no other reason than to 151 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 1: try to help others and to make a difference. And 152 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,200 Speaker 1: we just started to interview these athletes and uh and 153 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,080 Speaker 1: let them tell their story. And what was incredible is 154 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: these athletes all felt like they were going through this 155 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: like on their own, like alone. It was unique to them. 156 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: They had no idea that the people that they were 157 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 1: competing against we're facing some of the same you know, struggles. 158 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,920 Speaker 1: And so, you know, as they went through the interviews 159 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: and we we all got together at one point um 160 00:08:37,880 --> 00:08:39,800 Speaker 1: and they were able to see some of the other 161 00:08:39,960 --> 00:08:43,640 Speaker 1: athletes interviews, it was just this look of like, oh 162 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: my god, I can't believe that we are experiencing the 163 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: same things. And and there was a huge sense of 164 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: relief as well. And I think that's what really fueled 165 00:08:53,360 --> 00:08:56,400 Speaker 1: us to to spend the time that we did and 166 00:08:56,440 --> 00:09:00,360 Speaker 1: invest the resources we did to complete that project and uh, 167 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 1: and we we felt that it would not only reach 168 00:09:02,760 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 1: all of you know, these other athletes, but we hoped 169 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: that it would be of interest to the general public 170 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,360 Speaker 1: as well, because you know, over the years with with 171 00:09:12,520 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: Michael speaking to different groups, whether it be you know, 172 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:20,559 Speaker 1: CEOs of companies or sales conferences, or coaches or whatever, 173 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: youth sports groups. I mean, the thing that continues to, 174 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,679 Speaker 1: you know, to come up is, you know, the challenges 175 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 1: that people encounter when you know, they set goals, they 176 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 1: sort of sacrifice the balance that I'd say, you know, 177 00:09:37,960 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if there is an average person, uh, 178 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: you know, there's a certain sense of balance. You know, 179 00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:45,600 Speaker 1: you've got a diversity of experience, and there's not just 180 00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 1: this one singular focus. But with athletes, and I think 181 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 1: with executives and I think with sales people. I mean, 182 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,719 Speaker 1: there's this tendency to, uh, to set goals and to 183 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: and to sacrifice balance to achieve them. And then when 184 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:02,720 Speaker 1: you do, you know, quite often you realize, well, that 185 00:10:02,800 --> 00:10:06,400 Speaker 1: doesn't like complete me, that doesn't solve all my problems. 186 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 1: And I think that imbalance, uh, you know, becomes problematic 187 00:10:10,440 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: for people. And so I think just highlighting that experience 188 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,800 Speaker 1: where you know, whether it's high school athletes or middle 189 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:20,040 Speaker 1: aged executives, to see that, wow, there's Michael Phelps or 190 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,760 Speaker 1: Shaun White or Apolo anton On or any of these 191 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: incredible athletes, they're going through some of the same you know, 192 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,360 Speaker 1: struggles that that I go through. And I think with 193 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: that self awareness, you kind of have a chance to 194 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,760 Speaker 1: rebalance and to sort of reprioritize and consider the value 195 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,360 Speaker 1: system that you're living by. And so I think that's 196 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,960 Speaker 1: what you know, fueled the Weight of Gold project, and 197 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: I think tying it back to Reform Sports project, you know, 198 00:10:46,720 --> 00:10:50,800 Speaker 1: I feel that those problems are often a result of 199 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:56,440 Speaker 1: the imbalance that elite athletes face. And that imbalance doesn't, 200 00:10:56,640 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: you know, just miraculously occur one you've reached the elite level. 201 00:11:02,040 --> 00:11:06,520 Speaker 1: That imbalance is something that begins at a very young age. 202 00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:09,920 Speaker 1: And that became evident to me, you know, when I 203 00:11:09,960 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: had kids and got them involved in youth sports and 204 00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 1: uh and immediately saw how, you know, the system and 205 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:22,800 Speaker 1: the culture of youth sports is, in my view, you know, 206 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: sort of stacked against kids if what you want is balanced, 207 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:32,600 Speaker 1: because you know, there's tremendous imbalance. I think that, uh, 208 00:11:32,679 --> 00:11:35,840 Speaker 1: that happens at the youth sports level in high school 209 00:11:35,880 --> 00:11:38,120 Speaker 1: sports and college sports, and you really have to be 210 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 1: aware of it and you have to defend against it 211 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:42,960 Speaker 1: if you want to have what I consider to be 212 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,520 Speaker 1: a healthy experience in sports. You know, it's interesting because 213 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,320 Speaker 1: you're talking about athletes who are at an age where 214 00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:53,640 Speaker 1: they're either young adults or they're you know, they're adults 215 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:56,960 Speaker 1: and they have a voice for themselves in many instances. 216 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: But when you tie back kind of what you were 217 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: discussing to the youth level, I mean, what's driving youth 218 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,720 Speaker 1: sports at times, quite frankly are the parents, you know, 219 00:12:05,840 --> 00:12:08,240 Speaker 1: So I mean our kids obviously can speak, but we're 220 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:10,960 Speaker 1: trying to teach them how to advocate for themselves. So 221 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:14,439 Speaker 1: you know, in essence, it's hard for young kids to 222 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: probably feel a safe place or to be in a 223 00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:19,160 Speaker 1: safe space to do that, especially with their parents. So 224 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,319 Speaker 1: I feel like weight of gold they're having these discussions 225 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: can reach parents and say, hey, you know, this singular 226 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:27,000 Speaker 1: focus or the specialization or this over emphasis on one 227 00:12:27,040 --> 00:12:29,640 Speaker 1: concentrated area. You know, if it can affect an adult, 228 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,480 Speaker 1: you know, how would that impact the young kid who 229 00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 1: really doesn't have the wherewithal to be able to voice. Now, 230 00:12:34,080 --> 00:12:35,840 Speaker 1: one of the things I often hear from parents is 231 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,360 Speaker 1: that my kid wants to play baseball year round. They 232 00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 1: want to do this, They they want to do it. 233 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 1: But one of my favorite quotes, and I always give 234 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:44,680 Speaker 1: credit because I didn't get it from him, and I 235 00:12:44,679 --> 00:12:47,440 Speaker 1: have an interview yet, was from Nomar Garcia, para right, 236 00:12:47,720 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 1: all star short stop from the Red Sox for years. 237 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: And he's of course married to Mia Ham, who you 238 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,640 Speaker 1: know and a Right is one of the greatest American 239 00:12:54,679 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: athletes of all time. And Nomar said, you know, my 240 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: kids love to eat cake, but I don't give them 241 00:12:59,880 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: to them every single meal. You know, I gotta be 242 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,240 Speaker 1: the one to take the reins and tell them no. So, 243 00:13:05,280 --> 00:13:08,000 Speaker 1: I mean, how do we empower the parents and let 244 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,760 Speaker 1: them know that it's okay without feeling like they have 245 00:13:10,800 --> 00:13:13,280 Speaker 1: to go rogue against this youth sports system that we 246 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: know is roughly a twenty billion dollar industry that inadvertently 247 00:13:16,520 --> 00:13:20,080 Speaker 1: or intentionally pulls them in directions and at times parents 248 00:13:20,080 --> 00:13:21,679 Speaker 1: feel as though if they don't go with it and 249 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 1: their kids getta left behind. Yeah, I think it's a 250 00:13:24,559 --> 00:13:27,800 Speaker 1: an educational issue. I mean, and That's why Reform Sports 251 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 1: project is so important in my view. I mean, you 252 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: have to make inform choices, but you know, it's it's 253 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: not that easy to do. And it's not like the 254 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,160 Speaker 1: parents are causing this problem. I see it as a 255 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: like a systemic issue that is, uh, you know, it's 256 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 1: challenging for everybody. I mean, I you know, had some 257 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 1: sensitivity to it going into it, um, but I have 258 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,240 Speaker 1: to say, you know, I was surprised by it as well. 259 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. If you have a you 260 00:13:52,840 --> 00:13:55,600 Speaker 1: take a an eight year old kid who happens to 261 00:13:55,640 --> 00:14:00,679 Speaker 1: be an exceptional athlete, and many exceptional athletes are exceptional 262 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: even at the age of eight, all right, and look 263 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:08,559 Speaker 1: at the reaction that people have to that child's talent. 264 00:14:08,800 --> 00:14:10,720 Speaker 1: So you know, if if you're talking about you know, 265 00:14:11,080 --> 00:14:14,840 Speaker 1: t ball, little league, you know, the the reaction of 266 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: of parents, of other parents, the reaction of coaches, um, 267 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,240 Speaker 1: the reaction of other kids is worthy of consideration. And 268 00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:25,560 Speaker 1: so that child, at the age of eight, nine or 269 00:14:25,640 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: ten begins to feel differently. The interactions are different based 270 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 1: upon that child's athletic ability. And so for parents, I mean, 271 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 1: like you you think you're doing your child service in 272 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: supporting that, and and to an extent you certainly are um, 273 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:47,040 Speaker 1: but you know, there is a different perspective that would 274 00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,040 Speaker 1: I think I would urge parents to just consider what's 275 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:54,080 Speaker 1: happening while it's happening, because if a child believes that 276 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 1: it's it's the right thing to do and that there's 277 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: great value and simply advancing you know, the or whatever 278 00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: skills in baseball, you know you can do that, and 279 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: all the way through high school you'll be you know, 280 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: you'll be celebrated, you'll be encouraged, you'll be valued. But 281 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,320 Speaker 1: what about everything else, right, and what is the pathway 282 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:16,400 Speaker 1: for the rest of your life? And is that going 283 00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:18,800 Speaker 1: to be about baseball as well? And so you know, 284 00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:22,520 Speaker 1: to me it's it's at least making an informed decision, 285 00:15:22,560 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: which is not to say you shouldn't pursue baseball. If 286 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: that's the sport that that you want to focus on 287 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 1: and you're not really passionate about other sports, well, and 288 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:36,280 Speaker 1: that may be great, but I do think parents, kids, coaches, administrators, 289 00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: they have to be like aware of the double edged 290 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:44,680 Speaker 1: sword that that singular focus really is. After the break, 291 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:55,080 Speaker 1: Peter and I dive deeper into mental health. Welcome back 292 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 1: to the Reformed Sports Project podcast where Peter and I 293 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,320 Speaker 1: left off. We were about to discuss how our system 294 00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,000 Speaker 1: prioritizees physical health and development over mental health and development. 295 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:08,480 Speaker 1: And at the end of the day, you know, you 296 00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: kind of touched on it, and I know it's a 297 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:13,040 Speaker 1: big passion for you know, four Michael Phelps, and that 298 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: is the mental health aspect of it, especially coming out 299 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:18,000 Speaker 1: of you know, I say coming out of but um, 300 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,520 Speaker 1: you know, we just went through a pandemic, right, So, 301 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: I mean there's so many things that people say are 302 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:25,280 Speaker 1: still going to be coming to the forefront. I mean, 303 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,960 Speaker 1: looking at college sports today, I mean the wrestling. I 304 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: was watching the Big Ten wrestling tournament this past weekend, 305 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 1: and I mean there's twenty five year old men out there, 306 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:35,400 Speaker 1: and even in baseball, twenty four year old men, and 307 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 1: they're called super seniors, right because they all got an 308 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:39,520 Speaker 1: extra year of eligibility. Well, if you read shirt as 309 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: a freshman, then you got an extra year of eligibility. 310 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,960 Speaker 1: Now you're a grown man or a woman, you know, 311 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:46,480 Speaker 1: competing in some instances against eighteen year old So I mean, 312 00:16:46,600 --> 00:16:48,440 Speaker 1: you know, how does an eighteen year old really I 313 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: mean there's there's a massive amount of maturity, not just 314 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:54,520 Speaker 1: physically but also mentally between an eight year old and 315 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: twenty five year old. But also how does it how 316 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: do you manage that from a mental stand point, because 317 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,680 Speaker 1: I think it's easy to work on your physical side 318 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:04,760 Speaker 1: where we can see it. We can in many ways, 319 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:07,960 Speaker 1: you know, data data driven sports today is such a 320 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,719 Speaker 1: big component's not going anywhere. It's easy to look at 321 00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:13,159 Speaker 1: a forty time or a sixty time or whatever it is, 322 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,840 Speaker 1: or or a lap in a pool and take that measurement. 323 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,080 Speaker 1: How do we measure and take a look at it? Kids? 324 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,280 Speaker 1: Mental health? Yeah, I mean if you you can't compare 325 00:17:21,640 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: you know, mental health with physical health, at least in 326 00:17:24,400 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: terms of like our you know, the ordinary person's sort 327 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:30,879 Speaker 1: of command over that. I mean, you know, most elite 328 00:17:30,920 --> 00:17:34,400 Speaker 1: athletes take Olympians, I mean they no stone goes unturned 329 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:38,160 Speaker 1: in terms of how to maximize their physical potential. And 330 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,160 Speaker 1: the knowledge that goes into that, I mean, the awareness, 331 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: you know, even self allentis for the athlete. I mean 332 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:46,400 Speaker 1: it's incredible. But when it comes to mental health, it's 333 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: like we're so far behind when it comes to mental health. 334 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: And I mean that that just is what it is. 335 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:53,280 Speaker 1: We have to accept that. But I do think that 336 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:57,360 Speaker 1: if we just acknowledge the importance of mental health, then 337 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: we can try to catch up. And so, you know, 338 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: or for Olympians, I mean even some of them, when 339 00:18:01,920 --> 00:18:04,520 Speaker 1: Weight of Gold came out, I mean the USO. See, 340 00:18:04,760 --> 00:18:10,880 Speaker 1: you know, they focus on physical performance, they reward performance. 341 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:14,200 Speaker 1: When it comes to the mental side of things, historically 342 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 1: that's been more focused on you know, success performance sports psychology, 343 00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:24,920 Speaker 1: and you know, more is required to educate athletes and 344 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 1: all of those people around athletes. I think at every 345 00:18:27,600 --> 00:18:33,680 Speaker 1: age as to the importance of mental wellness, right, mental health, uh, 346 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: And I think that level of support is critically needed, 347 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:39,960 Speaker 1: and that's why I think that Weight of Gold ought 348 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:44,159 Speaker 1: to be like required, you know, viewing for uh, you know, 349 00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:49,840 Speaker 1: for athletes that are you know, deciding to focus either 350 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: singularly or or primarily on a particular sport in hopes 351 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:57,280 Speaker 1: of getting the elite level um. And again that is 352 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:00,680 Speaker 1: not to discourage them from doing so. It's really more 353 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,920 Speaker 1: to provide some better understanding as to what they'll likely 354 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,560 Speaker 1: encounter as they do that. And you know, in the 355 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,200 Speaker 1: same way, I think, you know, the Reformed Sports Project 356 00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:14,040 Speaker 1: and all of the great content and the conversations that 357 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:17,680 Speaker 1: you've had with so many different people that understand this 358 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: from all of these different sports that ought to be 359 00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,399 Speaker 1: you know, required listening for you know, for parents, for 360 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,679 Speaker 1: sports administrators, for you know, for kids that are feeling 361 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 1: as though they want to try to play sports in college. 362 00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:33,480 Speaker 1: It just it just sort of helps us to catch 363 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: up on on the mental side of of sports, which 364 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:40,919 Speaker 1: again just has not it's not as advanced as we 365 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,080 Speaker 1: are on the physical side of things, and we need 366 00:19:43,119 --> 00:19:45,680 Speaker 1: to catch up. We just had you know, David Epstein 367 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:48,520 Speaker 1: on you know, aufor Arrange in the sports gene and 368 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: you know, David's done a ton of work in this 369 00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:55,080 Speaker 1: space obviously, and he often refers to and this is 370 00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, it's not just he, but many refer to 371 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,919 Speaker 1: Norway the way they approach youth sports, and there's literally 372 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 1: it seems like whereas here in the States, everything it 373 00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: seems to be at times driven by winning quite frankly, 374 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 1: I mean, even at very very young ages, whereas in 375 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: Norway their youth sports system is set up around participation 376 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,280 Speaker 1: until I believe you get to the age of thirteen, 377 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:18,800 Speaker 1: and then you look at what Norway does per capita. 378 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 1: They've won more gold medals than I think any other country, 379 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,959 Speaker 1: certainly in the most recent Winter Olympics. And it's staggering 380 00:20:25,119 --> 00:20:27,080 Speaker 1: the size of the country compared to that of you know, 381 00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:29,399 Speaker 1: the for instance, the United States. I mean, how can 382 00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,320 Speaker 1: there not be a direct tie into how they approach 383 00:20:32,359 --> 00:20:35,480 Speaker 1: you sports by keeping it fun and centered on you know, 384 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: participation in development versus you know, winning um But then again, 385 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:42,280 Speaker 1: in our country and the way our system is set up, 386 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:44,600 Speaker 1: it's we want to pay more to be on the 387 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: best teams. Right, So it's a very you know, I'm 388 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,320 Speaker 1: all for capitalism, you know, that's not that's that's I 389 00:20:49,359 --> 00:20:50,920 Speaker 1: don't I don't ever want to say that I'm not. 390 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:53,160 Speaker 1: But at the same time, how do we talk about balance. 391 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 1: How do we not look at Norway and try to 392 00:20:55,280 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 1: potentially rethink the way we approach youth sports here at 393 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:01,200 Speaker 1: state side absolutely and in Norway is a great example. 394 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,040 Speaker 1: Karen Krausse was a great writer. She wrote a book 395 00:21:04,080 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 1: called Norwich, which you know, I think gets at that 396 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: same point where you take a small town in Vermont 397 00:21:10,680 --> 00:21:14,239 Speaker 1: and why does it produce so many Olympians? And I 398 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:18,359 Speaker 1: think that what Yogi Barras said of sports is half mental, 399 00:21:18,560 --> 00:21:21,440 Speaker 1: and here we are talking about the mental side of sports. 400 00:21:21,480 --> 00:21:25,639 Speaker 1: It's I guess the broader question is why with all 401 00:21:25,680 --> 00:21:29,639 Speaker 1: of the the elite level athletes that you speak with, right, 402 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:31,880 Speaker 1: I would say, you tell me if this isn't the case. 403 00:21:31,960 --> 00:21:36,120 Speaker 1: But it seems to me that the overwhelming majority will 404 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:39,000 Speaker 1: favor and same with coaches. They'll favor you know, well 405 00:21:39,119 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: rounded athletes, athletes with different experiences at the youth level, 406 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,399 Speaker 1: athletes that have played different sports, that have a you know, 407 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: a sort of more balanced approach to sports before they specialize. 408 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: Why do they favor that approach? And I think that 409 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:55,840 Speaker 1: a big part of it is well, because I think 410 00:21:55,840 --> 00:22:00,119 Speaker 1: you become stronger mentally having done that, and you have 411 00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,119 Speaker 1: a different value system that I think allows for greater 412 00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,399 Speaker 1: longevity and that that over time we may find that 413 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: supports heightened performance. So that's the irony of it, right, 414 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,639 Speaker 1: I mean, if you focus only on on physical performance, 415 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,400 Speaker 1: which reminds me of like Rocky four with a Van Drago, 416 00:22:19,520 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 1: like that approach, he lost to Rockey, right and right. 417 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:27,960 Speaker 1: So I mean, but you take that approach where you're 418 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: calculating just the physical aspect of sport and you're maybe 419 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,640 Speaker 1: overlooking the importance of what your perspective is, what your 420 00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: values are, what your mental aptitude might be for sports. 421 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:41,879 Speaker 1: And I think that at the end of the day, 422 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 1: over time, you'll find that that success, competitive success is 423 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,320 Speaker 1: enhanced by diversity of experience, is enhanced by prioritizing mental 424 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: wellness alongside physical development. And I think you're absolutely right. 425 00:22:57,560 --> 00:23:00,439 Speaker 1: Over the past, uh, you know, twenty years, you know, 426 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,959 Speaker 1: the emphasis has been on on you know, physical development. 427 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: Sports has become big business. Use sports has become very 428 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:11,360 Speaker 1: big business, and uh, you know, and that's led to specialization, 429 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:15,080 Speaker 1: that's led to an incredible amount of you know, down 430 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:18,760 Speaker 1: to the last detail, whether it be recovery, nutrition, off 431 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,919 Speaker 1: field training, dry land training, and then every possible you 432 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 1: know on field, uh you know, physical advantage that you 433 00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,159 Speaker 1: might have, But where's the mental side of it? And 434 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,040 Speaker 1: I think that that's not a concession. I actually think 435 00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,240 Speaker 1: that what we'll find is that if you if you 436 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:40,560 Speaker 1: broaden the perspective and begin to incorporate mental awareness and 437 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 1: mental health as a priority, well, then you're going to 438 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 1: achieve more in the way of competitive success as well, 439 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:50,240 Speaker 1: and over a much longer period of time. Peter I 440 00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,000 Speaker 1: know you you're busiest heck and and and I can't 441 00:23:53,000 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: thank you enough for coming on. But you know, in closing, 442 00:23:55,600 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 1: where do you see you know, what is your long 443 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:01,679 Speaker 1: term oh and where do you think that you know, 444 00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:03,760 Speaker 1: you would like to see a reform sports project be 445 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: you know and basically influencing, um, you know, youth sports 446 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: or sports overall in the United States or around the world. 447 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:14,800 Speaker 1: How do you see us fitting in? The easiest way 448 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,119 Speaker 1: for me to answer that, I think would be when 449 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:19,880 Speaker 1: I was coaching my kids and when my kids were 450 00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:24,560 Speaker 1: coming up through and my kids are are eighteen and fourteen, Um, 451 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: I had to I had to really buck the system 452 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,880 Speaker 1: just to like create space for them to play different sports. 453 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,360 Speaker 1: So you know, there was almost a requirement that they specialized. 454 00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,320 Speaker 1: They go from five sports to three sports, to two 455 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:42,720 Speaker 1: sports to one sport. I mean even in high school 456 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:46,120 Speaker 1: that it's difficult to play two sports that you somehow, 457 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,760 Speaker 1: you know, offending one of the one of the coaches. 458 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:54,600 Speaker 1: That to me is a reflection of an imbalanced system. 459 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:57,119 Speaker 1: And I guess what I would love to see is 460 00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,119 Speaker 1: when the time comes and my kids have kids is 461 00:25:00,119 --> 00:25:02,919 Speaker 1: and I've got grandkids, I would love to see a 462 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:09,000 Speaker 1: shift in values where kids are encouraged to play multiple sports. 463 00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: It doesn't mean that they shouldn't eventually specialize, but it's 464 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: almost like that there's a resistance to do it because 465 00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 1: people acknowledge that there's a sacrifice that comes along with it, 466 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:23,919 Speaker 1: and that there's a benefit in prolonging the period of 467 00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: time where you can have that diversity of experience. I 468 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 1: love man, I mean I was there was a time 469 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 1: frame where I sent him so many emails and text messages. 470 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 1: I was afraid one day I was going to have 471 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:35,760 Speaker 1: a warrant out for my arrest for the amount of 472 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,239 Speaker 1: harass this guy. So I can't thank you enough. I 473 00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 1: can't emphasize how much I look up to and respection. 474 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: I appreciate all the work, and I appreciate your time 475 00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,880 Speaker 1: and uh, it's always a pleasure to talk to you. Man. Well, 476 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:49,000 Speaker 1: thanks Nick, You're doing great work and hopefully we'll we'll 477 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,800 Speaker 1: make a difference. That's Peter Carlisle, managing director of Octagon's 478 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: Olympic and Action Sports division. Thanks for listening to the 479 00:25:56,080 --> 00:25:59,360 Speaker 1: Reformed Sports Project podcast. I'm Nick Boonicourt, and our goal 480 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 1: is to restore a healthy balance and perspective in all 481 00:26:02,160 --> 00:26:05,760 Speaker 1: areas of sports through education and advocacy. For updates, please 482 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,919 Speaker 1: follow us on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram, or check out 483 00:26:08,960 --> 00:26:11,640 Speaker 1: our website by searching for the Reform Sports Project