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Speaker 1: Trust me.

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Speaker 2: Trust me. I'm like a swat person. I've never lied

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Speaker 2: to you.

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Speaker 1: Do you think that one person has all the answers?

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Speaker 1: Don't welcome to trust me? The podcast about cults, extreme belief,

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Speaker 1: and the abusive.

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Speaker 3: Power from two Americans who've actually experienced it clearly.

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Speaker 1: I am Lowell Blanc and I am Megan Elizabeth. I

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Speaker 1: could try. Howda you know? No, it's horrible, Make it stop.

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Speaker 3: This week's guest is Rdo Lopez, gang interventionist and former

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Speaker 3: member of MS thirteen, the notorious gang best known for

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Speaker 3: a handful of highly publicized and very brutal murders. So

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Speaker 3: you may have heard of MS thirteen on say Fox

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Speaker 3: News when people like Donald Trump would mention the name

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Speaker 3: in a sensationalized context, because you know, the gang is

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Speaker 3: frequently used as a right wing talking point for a

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Speaker 3: stricter immigration law, and there are a variety of reasons

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Speaker 3: why this argument baseless and pretty much just xenophobic fearmongering.

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Speaker 3: But for the purposes of today, we're going to focus

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Speaker 3: on Herado's story.

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Speaker 1: We have another two.

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Speaker 3: Parter because there was so much to talk about, and

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Speaker 3: we vieer a little bit off the subject of colts

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Speaker 3: and we get pretty deep into the criminal justice system,

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Speaker 3: but it's pretty fascinating. In part one this week, he's

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Speaker 3: going to tell us about growing up in Los Angeles

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Speaker 3: in the eighties and nineties, living in gang territory, and

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Speaker 3: joining MS thirteen just to feel safe in his own neighborhood.

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Speaker 3: He'll talk to us about getting jumped into the gang

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Speaker 3: and regretting the decision, but then falling in love with

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Speaker 3: it and even being willing to die for it. Plus

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Speaker 3: he'll get into the systemic conditions that lead to the

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Speaker 3: rise of gangs and how expecting people to just be

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Speaker 3: stronger than that is foolish.

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Speaker 4: He'll also describe getting arrested, how he learned to play

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Speaker 4: the game of appearing reformed in juvenile facilities and how

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Speaker 4: it actually began to stick in his brain, and when

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Speaker 4: he got out, how his life began to change when

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Speaker 4: he was approached by a gang interventionist who ran a

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Speaker 4: group called Homies Unidos.

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Speaker 3: To be continued next week, when we talk more about

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Speaker 3: Homi Sunidos and his wild journey through the criminal justice

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Speaker 3: system in the era of the Rampart scandal with the

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Speaker 3: very corrupt LAPD. For those of you who don't know

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Speaker 3: what the rampart scandal is. It's a lot, y'all, it's

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Speaker 3: a lot. But he's so cool and fucking hilarious.

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Speaker 4: So funny, and I don't want anybody to be scared

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Speaker 4: off by the justice system stuff like it. I'm the

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Speaker 4: most add person alive and I was held wrapped an attention.

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Speaker 3: All right, Megan, please tell me the cultiest thing that's

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Speaker 3: happened to you this week.

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Speaker 4: Okay, So LA is a cult, right, sure, I'm again,

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Speaker 4: I'm that kind of is right. I went to go

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Speaker 4: stay with a friend. One of my friends moved out

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Speaker 4: of LA. She moved to Palm Springs. I went to

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Speaker 4: go stay with her. And there's a ton of people

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Speaker 4: who moved to Palm Springs from LA during this pandemic.

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Speaker 4: And then there's also an actress I follow on Instagram

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Speaker 4: who moved out of LA and started a farm in

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Speaker 4: like the middle of nowhere. And how they talk about

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Speaker 4: LA now is so funny. And I'm just gonna stick

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Speaker 4: with the actress's point of view on her Instagram.

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Speaker 5: You know, it's like I went back to LA this week.

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Speaker 4: Everyone had dead eyes, like I escaped and like all

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Speaker 4: this shit and they all just talk so much shit

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Speaker 4: on people who still live in LA, and I'm just

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Speaker 4: gonna like, bro, We're like, fine, you know, that might

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Speaker 4: be your experience, but we're a lot of us are

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Speaker 4: just enjoying in the warm weather and it's all good.

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Speaker 1: So it sounds like she's projecting a little bit.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: Much going on there.

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Speaker 4: Just all the people who have moved have really taken

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Speaker 4: this strong anti LA stance. Which maybe it's just because

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Speaker 4: LA does suck and you have to be away from

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Speaker 4: it to know it, or because that's the only way

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Speaker 4: they know how to.

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Speaker 5: Disengage from it.

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Speaker 4: But I also noticed that leaving LA was like a

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Speaker 4: cult because I was gonna bring my friend with me

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Speaker 4: and then she's like, no, I can't leave LA.

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Speaker 5: What if I have this? Or what if I have that?

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Speaker 5: What if? Blalla?

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Speaker 4: And I'm just like, holy fucking shit, it's fine. You

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Speaker 4: can do everything on the phone. Something about this weekend

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Speaker 4: end where everybody's moving and landing in LA, it feels

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Speaker 4: very cultish.

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Speaker 3: It's very polarizing. It's very polarizing city. Yeah, especially if

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Speaker 3: you're from New York Man New York, I fucking hate it.

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Speaker 3: Hate But then after one year they love it every time,

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Speaker 3: every ti time.

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Speaker 5: It's so much easier than New York.

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Speaker 4: My god. Anyway, that's a whole nother cult New York versus.

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Speaker 3: Another rant, But I know it's controversial. I fucking hate

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Speaker 3: New York.

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Speaker 4: Oh just s hate New York. I mean, what the fuck?

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Speaker 4: I once had to pay twenty dollars for a load

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Speaker 4: of wash that I was doing myself.

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry.

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Speaker 3: I have a laptop bag that I have to take

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Speaker 3: with me to get worked one in addition to my

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Speaker 3: big ass purse. You're telling me I have to carry

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Speaker 3: that shit the whole fucking day.

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Speaker 1: No, I don't have a car to put that in. No,

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Speaker 1: that's a no for me. Dog, that's a no.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 5: What's the cultiest thing that happened to you this week?

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Speaker 3: Well, so, the cultiest thing that I did this week

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Speaker 3: was research exorcisms for a shoot that.

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Speaker 1: I'm working on.

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Speaker 3: Oh okay, then I'm shooting this weekend, and I learned

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Speaker 3: some fun stuff. I mean, look, I don't know how

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Speaker 3: to do an exorcism. Now, nobody knows how.

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Speaker 1: To do an exorcism because exorcisms aren't real. But I

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Speaker 1: don't even know how to how to exactly.

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Speaker 4: Oh you're gonna get You're gonna get so haunted for

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Speaker 4: saying that, bitch, you are gonna have a demon living

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Speaker 4: in you?

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Speaker 5: Just kidding. Continue.

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Speaker 3: I would be so haunted by now if that were true, Megan,

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Speaker 3: because believe me, I have said so many things that

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Speaker 3: would warrant a haunting. Watch tonight, tonight a demon? It

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Speaker 3: Tonight's to night a demon?

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Speaker 5: Come?

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Speaker 1: I already see a demon all the time. I don't

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Speaker 1: see one, but I already have sleep paralysis.

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Speaker 5: So I'm oh, God, okay, Yeah, so you're a demon.

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Speaker 6: Dum.

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Speaker 4: So what what did you learn about exorcisms that the

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Speaker 4: layman might not know?

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Speaker 2: Well?

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Speaker 3: One thing I learned, which I tweeted because I thought

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Speaker 3: it was so fun funny was I started typing how

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Speaker 3: to perform an exorcism into Google, and among the top

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Speaker 3: six results were how to perform an exorcism on a cat? Oh,

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Speaker 3: how to perform an exorcism on a dog? Oh, how

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Speaker 3: to perform an exorcism on a child? And how to

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Speaker 3: perform an exorcism on a baby?

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Speaker 4: Oh my goodness, Wow, why do demons have to take

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Speaker 4: over such innocent creatures?

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Speaker 1: Who is doing exorcisms on their cat?

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Speaker 6: No?

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Speaker 5: I don't know, you guys.

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Speaker 3: They probably your cat probably has a parasite. You know,

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Speaker 3: parasites can make your cat act real weird. That's probably

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Speaker 3: what it is, Not a demon.

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Speaker 5: I don't know.

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Speaker 4: The demon thing sounds pretty spot on to me. I

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Speaker 4: like blaming everything on demons.

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Speaker 3: I like blaming everything on cats. I was gonna say,

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Speaker 3: it's true cats are sinful as fuck, Yeah, kind of.

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Speaker 3: I also learned that there's a whole huge thing that's happening,

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Speaker 3: which is internet exorcisms. So like during the pandemic, they've

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Speaker 3: been doing exorcisms on Zoom, which really seems like it couldn't.

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Speaker 1: Be that potent, you know what I mean.

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Speaker 3: Don't you have to like be in the room to

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Speaker 3: like use your god energy to battle the demon?

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Speaker 4: Well, Lola, the thing about demons is they exist in

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Speaker 4: every dimension in every time space at once. So you're fine,

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Speaker 4: You're fine battling them wherever you happen to be in

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Speaker 4: the now, so zoom.

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Speaker 3: In that case, shouldn't every exorcism just apply to all

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Speaker 3: demons everywhere?

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Speaker 4: Well, I'm sure like everybody says the pandemics changed everything forever,

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Speaker 4: like yes, now only zoom exorcisms. Okay, maybe I've already

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Speaker 4: talked about it on here, but I read this article

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Speaker 4: about a girl this was a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 4: who her parents thought she had a demon and they

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Speaker 4: gave her an exorcism, and then somehow they.

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Speaker 5: Did something that scared her really badly.

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Speaker 4: I mean probably the exorcism that sounds terrifying, but she

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Speaker 4: had a heart attack and fell down death, Oh my god,

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Speaker 4: from this fucking exorcism, right, and they're just like, oh,

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Speaker 4: the demon like killed her essentially, whatever, they bury her,

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Speaker 4: it's all done. Then the grave guy who's like watching

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Speaker 4: the graves this is a true fucking story, is like,

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Speaker 4: I don't know.

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Speaker 5: I feel like I hear.

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Speaker 4: Someone screaming in one of the graves and I think

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Speaker 4: it's like my imagination or something. And then they're like,

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Speaker 4: holy shit, they dig the scroll up or maybe she

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Speaker 4: was in like one of those mausoleum things. I think

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Speaker 4: that's what it was, where they're like, she was just

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Speaker 4: in a marble wall. They get her out and she's dead,

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Speaker 4: but there's she's like flipped over and there's scratch marks everywhere.

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Speaker 1: Okay, this sounds like an urban legend.

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Speaker 5: It's not.

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Speaker 1: What is your source?

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Speaker 4: Okay, listen, The source isn't great where I found.

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Speaker 5: It, but it did lead to other very real sources.

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Speaker 1: So maybe she didn't. She wasn't really dead, she wasn't Nope.

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Speaker 1: It made me think of what I texted you about

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Speaker 1: earlier this week.

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Speaker 3: Actually, so the Exorcism of Emily Rose is based on

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Speaker 3: the true story of Annalise Michael or Michelle. I don't

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Speaker 3: actually know how you pronounce her name. She's German, Yeah,

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Speaker 3: she was German. She was you know, this woman who

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Speaker 3: had like fifty sixty exorcisms over the course of a

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Speaker 3: number of months, I guess and SUCKI and starved to death.

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Speaker 3: I think that that is how she eventually died. She

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Speaker 3: wasn't eating. Oh, she underwent sixty seven exorcisms, starved herself,

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Speaker 3: and refused medical attention. To quote a tone for her sins. Oh,

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Speaker 3: so she actually died of pneumonia. What's fascinating about that?

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Speaker 3: I mean, obviously that's incredibly tragic. But she had the

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Speaker 3: type of epilepsy that our earlier guest uvalla Or talked about,

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Speaker 3: which is temporal lobe epilepsy. And that's the kind of

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Speaker 3: epilepsy that causes hyper religiosity. It causes people to become

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Speaker 3: completely convinced that they're having some kind of supernatural experience.

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Speaker 1: She had that.

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Speaker 6: Wo.

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Speaker 1: I mean, man, y'all, it.

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Speaker 3: Just like it makes me really sad, honestly. Like I

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Speaker 3: joke about exorcisms and demons not being real, but it

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Speaker 3: really does make me sad because there are probably so

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Speaker 3: many more people than we could possibly even know who

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Speaker 3: are suffering from some kind of neurological disorder or from

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Speaker 3: some kind of mental illness, who are not getting the

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Speaker 3: treatment that they need because you know, either they're very

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Speaker 3: religious or somebody in their life who has some power

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Speaker 3: is very religious and it's convinced that what they need

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Speaker 3: is exorcisms. That to me is really sad and scary.

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Speaker 5: Absolutely.

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Speaker 4: It's like when parents don't give their kids medicine and

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Speaker 4: they're like, we're just gonna pray and then they die.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really it's really fucked up man. In conclusion,

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Speaker 3: I hope that we begin to take mental illness a

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Speaker 3: lot more seriously. Mental health, I should say, a lot

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Speaker 3: more seriously in this country and beyond beautifully said.

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Speaker 4: And also I would like us to take exorcism much

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Speaker 4: more seriously.

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Speaker 3: So I think you're the one who's getting a demon tonight,

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Speaker 3: my friend, and it's me.

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Speaker 1: I'm the demon.

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Speaker 5: All right.

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Speaker 3: On that note, let's get into things with Grado Lopez

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Speaker 3: and here we go.

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Speaker 1: Welcome Gerardo Lopez. Thank you so much for coming on.

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Speaker 2: Man.

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Speaker 3: I absolutely loved your ted X talk. I think you

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Speaker 3: were such an inspiration. Can you start us with just

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Speaker 3: giving us a little bit of background on what MS

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Speaker 3: thirteen is, because you know, there's been these big news

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Speaker 3: headlines about it, very sensationalized. Would love to get your

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Speaker 3: perspective on what it actually is.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, to talk about a Master thirteen, I guess,

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Speaker 2: you know, just go into a little bit of the

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Speaker 2: background of the history. There was a civil war in

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Speaker 2: the early eighties, late seventies in a Salvador that consisted

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Speaker 2: of the right wing government going against people in the

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Speaker 2: Salvador that own like that own farms, like the townspeople,

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Speaker 2: if you will, the farmers, and they were trying to

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Speaker 2: take their land. So they got together and started fighting

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Speaker 2: against the right wing government. And after this a civil

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Speaker 2: war transpired and there was hundreds of thousands of people

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Speaker 2: that were being killed. When kids went to school, they

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Speaker 2: saw bodies decapitated on the ground. Some of them their

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Speaker 2: family members, some of them their friends, complete strangers, but

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Speaker 2: it was just that trauma they saw every day. And

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Speaker 2: the military from in Salvadore will go to the houses

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Speaker 2: late at night and try to take these kids in

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Speaker 2: order for them to join the military instead of them

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Speaker 2: joining the opposition and fighting against them. So parents and

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Speaker 2: the people right there were obviously scared, and they wanted

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Speaker 2: the fleet to a better place in order to live

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Speaker 2: a better life for them and their children. So they

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Speaker 2: landed in Los Angeles where there was already gangs, guns, drugs, violence,

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Speaker 2: and then being savodor and it was a culture clash

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Speaker 2: too to land in a gang infested neighborhood that was

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Speaker 2: predominantly Mexican American in that had foundations and roots where

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Speaker 2: they went through their own oppression of how they also

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Speaker 2: became gang members themselves. So them trying to live in

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Speaker 2: that atmosphere, when they would go to school, they would

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Speaker 2: get bullied because the dialect of the salvadort is very

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Speaker 2: different from the dialect of the Chicano, the Mexican American

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Speaker 2: from the United States, So they would get bullied and

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Speaker 2: they started forming their own groups, their own cliques, and ironically,

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Speaker 2: you know, it's crazy as a trip because when a

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Speaker 2: lot of the Mexicans or Chicanos took a hatred to

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Speaker 2: the Assalvadorian people. It's when Mexico got kicked out of

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Speaker 2: the World Cup from a Salvador and like in nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty one. So that kind of fueled it, right, that

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Speaker 2: kind of fuel they started looking for differences and even

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Speaker 2: the way they talked. When a Sala lord calls you

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Speaker 2: a set out to each other, it's a word of camarati.

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Speaker 2: When a Mexican calls you away to each other, to

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Speaker 2: word camaradi. But when you use these two words against

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Speaker 2: each other, it's a disrespect. So there was a lot

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Speaker 2: of factors and they started building their own groups, which

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Speaker 2: consisted of Mara salvaa stoners, and it was kids that

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Speaker 2: went to heavy rock metal groups to watch uh Ozzy Osbourne.

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Speaker 2: They see DC metallic black sabbath into that nature and

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Speaker 2: they started as you know, kids smoking wheed and being

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Speaker 2: rockers and eventually it evolved into MS thirteen.

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Speaker 3: Wow, I had no idea that that was the sort

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Speaker 3: of origin culture was, Like, I mean, obviously there's El

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Speaker 3: Salvador first, but like the rocker Ozzy Osbourne like, I

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Speaker 3: had no idea. That's that's super interesting. So MS thirteen

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Speaker 3: stands for.

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Speaker 2: Mara, salva so madra predominantly, it's a famous word in

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Speaker 2: Salvador that means group. Like you remember watching the Brady Boil.

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Speaker 2: You girls are probably too young to probably.

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Speaker 1: The brat much. Look at nice.

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Speaker 2: Baby over here comparing Themester into the Brady Bunch now.

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Speaker 2: And I just try to find I just try to,

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Speaker 2: you know, find a different I don't know, some type

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Speaker 2: of ways for people to understand, but I remember that

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Speaker 2: that I will always say, hey, where's the gang at?

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Speaker 2: Back in the days, the gang was the group of

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Speaker 2: kids right before it became criminalized. And mata means the

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Speaker 2: same thing. When the people were like, hey, where's the

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Speaker 2: mata at? You know, they were referring to the group

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Speaker 2: of people, the group of kids. So that's mata and

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Speaker 2: Salava is short for Salvadorian. And then Thrua means like

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Speaker 2: like alert, to be alert, and Truca is actually a

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Speaker 2: Mexican word. But when the Salvadorians went into the pronominally

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Speaker 2: eight neighborhoods of Koreatown, people union and a Mexican would

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Speaker 2: tell Salvador, hey could you go do something for me.

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Speaker 2: The SALVADORI is you know, they did it fast, so

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Speaker 2: they're like, man, that guy's very truccha And eventually it

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Speaker 2: evolved to mada salava, mad sala.

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Speaker 5: Gotcha?

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Speaker 2: Really?

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Speaker 1: What about like Normandy is nice?

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Speaker 2: I was born and raised right there Normandy in a street. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I tell a lot of people I'm so spoiled

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Speaker 2: over in Colorado with the food because I think a

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Speaker 2: lot of it kind of sucks because I'm so accustomed

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Speaker 2: to the Korea Town food. We've been spoiled our whole lives. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, food right there there is great food.

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Speaker 2: But shout out to my Colorado home in some of

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Speaker 2: the food. You know, they're gonna say, what food sucks?

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Speaker 2: I'm for Korea ting. I have high stands with my food.

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Speaker 1: So Koreatown.

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Speaker 3: So tell us about your childhood, tell us what growing

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Speaker 3: up here was like, and give us the rundown of

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Speaker 3: your environment.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Like I said, I was born at the Normandy

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Speaker 2: in H Street And before MS thirteen was there, there

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Speaker 2: was a gang called Alley Boys, same thing, gang banging.

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Speaker 2: Grew up watching that and I grew up in a

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Speaker 2: single family home. Actually I never met my dad my

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Speaker 2: biological dat from Argentina and the father that raised me

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Speaker 2: since I was about three years old. He's from Colombia

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Speaker 2: and my mom's from Mexico, and you know, I'm obviously

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Speaker 2: Mexican American. And all of the friends, like probably eighty

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Speaker 2: percent of the friends that I grew up with as

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Speaker 2: a kid was Salvadorian, right, So I grew up in

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Speaker 2: a very diverse situation right there. But you know, we

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00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:00,880
Speaker 2: were on welfare. We lived in a sometimes in a

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Speaker 2: single apartment home. You know, my mom would put some

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Speaker 2: blankets on the living room floor and we will sleep there.

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Speaker 2: Then sometimes we have beds and we will sleep right

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Speaker 2: there as well. And I never got beat as a kid,

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Speaker 2: you know, I hear those horrific stories of gang members

356
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:15,880
Speaker 2: that got beating. I had nothing but love as a kid.

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Speaker 2: I had the best mom or the best grandma that

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Speaker 2: a kid could ask for. It's just unfortunate the situation

359
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:25,640
Speaker 2: where I grew up with. There wasn't too much youth services, right,

360
00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:31,520
Speaker 2: social services available. And I remember watching like the WWF

361
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Speaker 2: cartoons on Saturday morning, eating my Captain Crunch in the

362
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Speaker 2: living room, and gunshots would just ring out in the

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Speaker 2: middle of the day, you know, like, man, what the fuck?

364
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:44,960
Speaker 2: And it was MS thirteen coming to take over that

365
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Speaker 2: territory right there, Normandy and a street from the Alley Boys.

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Speaker 2: And late at night, yeah, late at night when I'm

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Speaker 2: watching my other television shows like Different Strokes or Family

368
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:01,280
Speaker 2: Ties or Silver Spoons, you hear the hell coughter late

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Speaker 2: at night and the lights just passing through your window

370
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Speaker 2: and you're trying to concentrate and do your work and

371
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:10,840
Speaker 2: people just screaming and cars screeching, a dry bike just happening.

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Speaker 2: You go, people go outside and it's an ambulance picking

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Speaker 2: up a dead body. And I remember in one certain occasion,

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Speaker 2: it was we were playing soccer with you know, my

375
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Speaker 2: friends and I and it was a truck full of

376
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,679
Speaker 2: MS thirteen gang members. They had the metallica look, they

377
00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:31,040
Speaker 2: had the long hair with the metallica clothing, and they

378
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,160
Speaker 2: had the machetta and they went right there and whacked

379
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:35,800
Speaker 2: away at a guy from from Alley Boys and it

380
00:18:35,920 --> 00:18:41,000
Speaker 2: was just splattering. Yeah. I saw that at a younger age.

381
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Speaker 2: So everybody runs, right, we run and I go underneath

382
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Speaker 2: my bed and my mom is like, oh, where's out?

383
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Speaker 2: And I'm shaking in my bed and you know back

384
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,720
Speaker 2: then you make get no therapy for that, or you

385
00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,000
Speaker 2: didn't get took into the councilor you know, the old

386
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,440
Speaker 2: school remedy. And you know, Mexican family, it's for your

387
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,959
Speaker 2: nerves to calm down. They give you water with sugar,

388
00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,639
Speaker 2: you know, they heus some water with sugar. And I

389
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:06,199
Speaker 2: guess I don't know if it works right now, but

390
00:19:06,440 --> 00:19:14,800
Speaker 2: it's just the right something that works. It's like, you know,

391
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:16,920
Speaker 2: when we're sick, we get the seven up, the vix

392
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,520
Speaker 2: vapor rub and the candle of the Virgin Mary, and

393
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,080
Speaker 2: you know, we're good to go, you know, but after

394
00:19:23,160 --> 00:19:25,960
Speaker 2: a while, a few minutes later, you hear the ambulance.

395
00:19:26,400 --> 00:19:29,040
Speaker 2: It goes, it takes away you know, whoever's dead or

396
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,639
Speaker 2: whoever needs that medical attention. And I went outside and

397
00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,480
Speaker 2: some of the older kids they were back to playing

398
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,000
Speaker 2: soccer again, you know right there. Oh my god, they've

399
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 2: seen it before, right, they were used to this type

400
00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,320
Speaker 2: of thing. And I went outside and I just started

401
00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:46,919
Speaker 2: joining the game little by little, and nobody was tripping

402
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:49,520
Speaker 2: and I wasn't tripping, so it just became normal after

403
00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:49,880
Speaker 2: a while.

404
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 3: So you're seeing this like this violence is sort of

405
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:56,000
Speaker 3: happening around you in your neighborhood. And it was scary

406
00:19:56,240 --> 00:19:59,960
Speaker 3: obviously right at first when you're younger. So what was

407
00:20:00,119 --> 00:20:04,199
Speaker 3: appealing about it coming from that perspective, like when you

408
00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:05,560
Speaker 3: were previously afraid?

409
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Speaker 2: You know, there's a street right there, Normandy and Nathan

410
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,200
Speaker 2: Korea Town that there's always movies being filmed because there's

411
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,280
Speaker 2: a section that looks like Hollywood, right then Normandy and

412
00:20:15,320 --> 00:20:17,600
Speaker 2: a street. It's just all kinds of buildings together, right.

413
00:20:17,640 --> 00:20:18,959
Speaker 2: And I remember as a kid there was just so

414
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:21,400
Speaker 2: many actors going in and out. In the corner store.

415
00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:23,640
Speaker 2: They used to still popcorn. It was twenty five cents.

416
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,160
Speaker 2: You get your bag of popcorn. I got my bag

417
00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:26,679
Speaker 2: of park when I just sat down right there by

418
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:28,560
Speaker 2: the curb, which is just eight. But then I started

419
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,359
Speaker 2: getting bigger when I was twelve or thirteen years old,

420
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Speaker 2: and these ms schools they started punking me.

421
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Speaker 6: Man.

422
00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:34,840
Speaker 2: They started like, man, what are you doing here? And

423
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,719
Speaker 2: I started getting kicked out of watching my show. You

424
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:47,119
Speaker 2: know I have front Road tickets. Yeah, but they started

425
00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:49,359
Speaker 2: kicking me out, and my mom says, you know, there's

426
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,119
Speaker 2: a lot of gangs here. Let's move out to a

427
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,959
Speaker 2: different neighborhood. Back then, we didn't have no car. You know,

428
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,520
Speaker 2: my mom was on Welfer and a lot of times

429
00:20:57,520 --> 00:21:00,800
Speaker 2: she worked at a sweatshop where she got paid like

430
00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 2: a penny or five cents for every button that she

431
00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:04,800
Speaker 2: saw on a dress. So she came homever like eighty

432
00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:07,680
Speaker 2: or ninety bucks to try to provide for three kids.

433
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,800
Speaker 2: And back then, when you moved out of Korea Town,

434
00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,359
Speaker 2: the neighborhood to another neighborhood, it's as far as you

435
00:21:13,359 --> 00:21:16,160
Speaker 2: could take your mattress and your couch, right you didn't

436
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,320
Speaker 2: have no cars. So all we did was move over,

437
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 2: like around the block, or you know, two blocks down

438
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:25,000
Speaker 2: and Ms thirteen presents right there, and there was other

439
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:27,400
Speaker 2: gangs right there too, so they will sweat me too.

440
00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 2: They would kick me out or whatever I was trying

441
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,479
Speaker 2: to do. Or when I was in youth baseball teams,

442
00:21:32,560 --> 00:21:36,000
Speaker 2: they would take my baseball gloves, or take my bats

443
00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,200
Speaker 2: or my hats, take my ice cream money. So it

444
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,080
Speaker 2: got to the situation where I got tired of being plunked.

445
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:46,959
Speaker 4: That's an absolute nightmare. I cannot even imagine living with

446
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:47,880
Speaker 4: that amount of stress.

447
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:50,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, I couldn't go to the corner store to buy

448
00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,600
Speaker 2: a soda or you know, I couldn't go to the

449
00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,720
Speaker 2: local fast food restaurants. We're all getting sweated. I would

450
00:21:55,760 --> 00:21:58,880
Speaker 2: have to go all kinds of different places. And little

451
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 2: by little, I think a lot of that stuff started

452
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,199
Speaker 2: affecting me in school too. You know. I couldn't really concentrate,

453
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,720
Speaker 2: I didn't really want to pay attention, you know. And

454
00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:08,440
Speaker 2: I met other friends that were in the same situation.

455
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:10,960
Speaker 2: They started rebelling, like writing on walls, and we started

456
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 2: to become taggers, just writing on walls, like graffiti artists.

457
00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:17,880
Speaker 2: And I was like thirteen or fourteen years old. Then

458
00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,480
Speaker 2: we picked a section right around MS thirteen that was

459
00:22:21,520 --> 00:22:25,280
Speaker 2: different gangs right there, like mid city drifters, playboys, alley boys,

460
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:27,200
Speaker 2: right in the middle when nobody knew what we hanged out.

461
00:22:27,720 --> 00:22:31,000
Speaker 2: But every time these gangs came, they all used to

462
00:22:31,080 --> 00:22:32,320
Speaker 2: punk us. And I was like, man, I used to

463
00:22:32,359 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 2: always want respect, power and pride, and I used to

464
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,760
Speaker 2: look outside my window and late at night and I

465
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,520
Speaker 2: saw these MS thirteen members. They were like the movie

466
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,399
Speaker 2: starts from that film that I used to watch with

467
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,080
Speaker 2: my popcorn. Everybody wanted to be like them, and I

468
00:22:46,160 --> 00:22:47,639
Speaker 2: was like, man, I want to be like that. I

469
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:48,080
Speaker 2: want to.

470
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 3: Have what they have, right, so they see him like

471
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:55,520
Speaker 3: powerful and badass and yeah in a way that you

472
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:56,280
Speaker 3: don't feel.

473
00:22:56,440 --> 00:22:59,199
Speaker 2: Yeah. And you know, back then in gang banging, there

474
00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,240
Speaker 2: was some type of art or respect when if you

475
00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,600
Speaker 2: were related to somebody, you had this free ticket to

476
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,960
Speaker 2: roam around the neighborhood freely, which anybody should, right, But

477
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 2: back then it was more difficult. And I say, you know,

478
00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,680
Speaker 2: I'm gonna join the gang. One for my little brother

479
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:15,119
Speaker 2: to be able to roam around freely, and two for

480
00:23:15,200 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 2: all these friends that I grew up with in my

481
00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:19,119
Speaker 2: baseball teams, for them to just say, hey, I know so,

482
00:23:19,240 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 2: and so, you know, back off, I ended up joining

483
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 2: the gang. I remember when I was being jumped in

484
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,240
Speaker 2: it was thirteen seconds. And you would think it was

485
00:23:26,280 --> 00:23:28,720
Speaker 2: one two, three for five and whatever thirteen, but it

486
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,080
Speaker 2: was one and two. And then they start having a conversation.

487
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,000
Speaker 2: So it's a very long beat down.

488
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,840
Speaker 1: Wait, tell us about that. So it's thirteen seconds of

489
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:37,679
Speaker 1: getting beaten up.

490
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, So it's thirteen seconds of getting beaten up. And

491
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 2: every time you fogged, they let you get back up

492
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:43,040
Speaker 2: and then you start fighting again.

493
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 5: Oh my god.

494
00:23:45,359 --> 00:23:48,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, until the thirteen secs so it's about a minute

495
00:23:48,960 --> 00:23:50,760
Speaker 2: or two maybe, you know, but a minute or two,

496
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:52,720
Speaker 2: and like in a fighting man with three or four

497
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,080
Speaker 2: guys on you. It's pretty, you know, it's pretty. It's

498
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 2: pretty long. And I remember when I was getting jumped in,

499
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,320
Speaker 2: the thoughts that were going through my mind were or no,

500
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 2: I'm this AMS thirteen gang member. Now yeah, I'm gonna

501
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,119
Speaker 2: go kill this, and I'm gonna go kill so and

502
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:08,159
Speaker 2: so do all these drivers and shootings. The things that

503
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:10,600
Speaker 2: kept going through my head were, Man, now I could

504
00:24:10,600 --> 00:24:12,280
Speaker 2: go to that local carnival that I used to go

505
00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 2: to when I was big. I could now go eat

506
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,080
Speaker 2: wherever the fuck I want in this street. My little

507
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 2: bird is not gonna be harassed. And now I could

508
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 2: walk around freely wherever I want.

509
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 3: Just literally to get by without having to worry all

510
00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:26,800
Speaker 3: the time.

511
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 2: Right exactly. And when I got in like immediately, like

512
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,240
Speaker 2: a week later. I don't know, you girls have seen

513
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:34,800
Speaker 2: the movie American Meet where everybody had these big old

514
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,479
Speaker 2: mustachees tattoos, and it was this MS guy that came

515
00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 2: and told us all the rules and he put us

516
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:41,080
Speaker 2: behind his truck. Because it was me and a couple

517
00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 2: of friends that got jumped in that were tiggers, and

518
00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 2: he said, now we're gonna give a tour around our neighborhood.

519
00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,959
Speaker 2: And I was like, man, we know this whole freaky neighborhood.

520
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:53,239
Speaker 6: Man, it's giving us a tour around our neighborhood. We

521
00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,479
Speaker 6: were so excited. Oh, I'm gonna shot there. Now I'm

522
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,320
Speaker 6: over there, I'm i'ma go to that topic. I'm gonna

523
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:01,000
Speaker 6: go with those poopoosas over there, It's gonna beyond. But

524
00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:04,080
Speaker 6: like two weeks later, I really started to regret it

525
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:09,040
Speaker 6: because I friended MS thirteen, but I met enemies with

526
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,840
Speaker 6: all the other rival gangs now me because they have

527
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 6: found out that we got into MS thirteen, So now

528
00:25:15,520 --> 00:25:19,160
Speaker 6: we were targets. Before we did everything to go through

529
00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,000
Speaker 6: alleys and hot fences to leave MS thirteen neighborhoods so

530
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:26,080
Speaker 6: they won't sweat us. But now we couldn't leave that neighborhood.

531
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 6: But after a while, it just became like a I

532
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:30,879
Speaker 6: don't know if you guys have ever been in a

533
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,399
Speaker 6: relationship where you got to a relationship you're like, fuck,

534
00:25:33,840 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 6: I made a mistake or you know what, ye like that.

535
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 2: It was something like that. But then I kind of

536
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 2: gave it a chance. I began to become used to

537
00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: this person, the gang, if you will. And as time

538
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:57,320
Speaker 2: went on, I started needing the gang, and then I

539
00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,639
Speaker 2: fell in love with the gang. And it was almost

540
00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 2: like a man. When I was willing to die for

541
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,679
Speaker 2: the gang, I was willing to die for my territory. Wow,

542
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 2: because it became a repetition and a repetition and a

543
00:26:08,720 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: repetition where I continue to say in my head and

544
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:14,679
Speaker 2: Master Team and Master Team and Master Team fucked my

545
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 2: enemy over and over again. And when they didn't me harm,

546
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: when all these gang members did me harm, And when

547
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:22,480
Speaker 2: I was at Tigger and I was running, this time

548
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:24,720
Speaker 2: I wasn't running. I was the one chasing the cars

549
00:26:24,760 --> 00:26:25,719
Speaker 2: out of the neighborhood.

550
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 3: So I I gosh, I have so many questions, like

551
00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 3: what is the Is there someone who's like in charge

552
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 3: who you like answer to, or like what is the

553
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:40,120
Speaker 3: structure of it?

554
00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 2: Well, you know, like you hearing the news, you will

555
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 2: think it's a very structured situation where it's very it's

556
00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 2: very loose. Times change, and obviously I'm talking about the

557
00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 2: early nineties. When I got into the gang, right there,

558
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: there was not one gang member, right that's like a

559
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,359
Speaker 2: biker club. But there was a lot of leaders, and

560
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 2: a leader is not identified by someone says, okay, you're

561
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 2: in charge. I think a leader in MS back then

562
00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,200
Speaker 2: was identified of who had the most respect by putting

563
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,280
Speaker 2: in work, but put it in street work, and you knew.

564
00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,119
Speaker 2: You didn't ask really ask me no questions, but you

565
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 2: knew because that man was respected. It's like when you

566
00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 2: go to a Hollywood premiere. Somebody knows that person's famous,

567
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,880
Speaker 2: and somebody wants to be around that person. In the neighborhood,

568
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: we felt that aura within us. I mean, you got

569
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 2: that everybody wanted to be with that person. Everybody laughed

570
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 2: at whatever that person said. So you knew I earned

571
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,359
Speaker 2: my respect real fast because a few months later I

572
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:35,399
Speaker 2: got locked up into the juvenile facilities and I just

573
00:27:35,400 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 2: started fighting and fighting and fighting. And back then, every

574
00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 2: time you got into a fight, it really got out

575
00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:41,800
Speaker 2: to the street. So they're like, man Claire's over here

576
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:46,920
Speaker 2: getting into fucking fights and knocking motherfuckers out, and damn shit,

577
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:50,760
Speaker 2: that was crazy. So as soon as I saw what

578
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 2: got you respect and what image I started to do,

579
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,840
Speaker 2: I just kept doing it on purpose in order for

580
00:27:55,880 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 2: this words to get out on the street. And when

581
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:01,120
Speaker 2: I got out, I really out that aura of being

582
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,879
Speaker 2: in a Hollywood premier, of that red carpet. It's like

583
00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 2: that sitcom Cheers, where you know the song. Sometimes you

584
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 2: want to go where anybody knows your name, and there

585
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 2: always grad you came, people were applauding me, and I

586
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,200
Speaker 2: didn't care. They were applauded me for something wrong that

587
00:28:15,320 --> 00:28:17,760
Speaker 2: I did. I just cared that they were applauding me,

588
00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,159
Speaker 2: and they knew that I was alive. They knew that

589
00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:23,640
Speaker 2: I was worth something and knew that I was there right.

590
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,399
Speaker 1: They're valuing you exactly.

591
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,040
Speaker 4: How long do you think it took before you were

592
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 4: fundamentally thinking differently.

593
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: I think it was because I got locked of fairly fast.

594
00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 2: Let me put I'm a big Dodgers fan. It's almost

595
00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 2: like you grew up in the farm system of the Dodgers.

596
00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,280
Speaker 2: You're not from it. They haven't signed you yet, but

597
00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:46,320
Speaker 2: you know what it takes to get that big contract

598
00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: or to get that respect of the crowd to cheer

599
00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 2: you right, good average you know, big home runs, big

600
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: RBIs and wins. And even when I was a kid,

601
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:56,560
Speaker 2: and I say, if I ever joined MS, thirteen. I

602
00:28:56,680 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 2: know what I have to do. So when I got

603
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,880
Speaker 2: jumped in, I knew my role was and it wasn't

604
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 2: pushed on me. Nobody forced me. I just wanted to

605
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 2: be one of the start players within there. I think

606
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 2: thinking that over and over and over again became an

607
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:15,080
Speaker 2: addiction lifestyle. Sometimes, like when you feed your brain something,

608
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 2: it's repetition, repetition, repetition, especially in the environment that I

609
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 2: was in, like in the juvenile facilities that consisted of

610
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 2: people fighting and people saying, you know, like a baseball team. Know,

611
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 2: my baseball team is gonna be your base so it said,

612
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 2: you know, I'm like, fuck, no, right, this is the Dodgers, right,

613
00:29:31,600 --> 00:29:34,360
Speaker 2: I'm gonna beat your shit right saying it was Ames thirteen,

614
00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:37,520
Speaker 2: I'm gonna show you that we're the World Series champs,

615
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,640
Speaker 2: you know, and sort of speak in that type of way.

616
00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 2: So it almost became somewhat of a game to me.

617
00:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,120
Speaker 2: My first fight, or the first time is being shot at.

618
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,480
Speaker 2: I remember it was terrifying. It was it was terrifying.

619
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 2: I was scared. But then something happened so much, so

620
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 2: much so much that you start to become accustomed to it.

621
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,400
Speaker 2: And I think the answer to your question, it just

622
00:29:57,400 --> 00:29:59,600
Speaker 2: became an addiction life stylue of thinking.

623
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 4: Interesting. We don't need to put this in the podcast

624
00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,239
Speaker 4: or anything, but there's just so many parallels, Like I

625
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,920
Speaker 4: had an eating disorder when I was younger, and there's

626
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 4: so many parallels between the thinking that I'm picking up on.

627
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 4: For some reason, I don't really know how to explain it,

628
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,920
Speaker 4: but no, I hear you, I hear it.

629
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:15,360
Speaker 6: Yeah.

630
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 3: Yeah, So just sort of an obsessive, yeah, like addictive

631
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 3: kind of thing.

632
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 4: Right, Like you see somebody and they're like, oh, they

633
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 4: look so great, and then you're like, I have to

634
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 4: It's very different, but just the fear that kind of

635
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,280
Speaker 4: turns into an obsession, I really understand.

636
00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:33,960
Speaker 2: I think a lot of it has to do. But also,

637
00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:36,960
Speaker 2: like you're saying, right, like the passion that you put

638
00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,160
Speaker 2: into it, if there's emotion involved.

639
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:41,120
Speaker 4: You know very much.

640
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,480
Speaker 2: You remember those things, right, You remember those highlights of

641
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:47,239
Speaker 2: your life, right, and in the dry by shooting, I mean,

642
00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 2: if you see somebody trying to kill you, there's emotion

643
00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:51,479
Speaker 2: like shit, what happened? You try to stay alive and

644
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 2: there's anger there, so you remember those things in your

645
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:56,560
Speaker 2: life and all of a sudden there's this MS thirteen

646
00:30:56,720 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 2: thing that you click to somewhat of your logo that

647
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 2: you're really to represent because you're like, fuck that, those

648
00:31:02,640 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 2: people with different gangs they did shit to me. It's

649
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 2: just like emotions fighting against emotions. It's very simple to

650
00:31:10,640 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 2: put like, hurt people, hurt other, hurt people, and that's

651
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 2: what we were doing totally.

652
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:16,520
Speaker 1: That makes sense.

653
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 3: I mean growing up in a violent, scary environment, like, yeah,

654
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,440
Speaker 3: you're gonna want to be able to survive within that environment,

655
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:24,480
Speaker 3: and that was the way.

656
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 1: To do it.

657
00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 5: It sounds like you have no choice.

658
00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, do you think if there had been more like

659
00:31:30,320 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 3: programs or like activities or like what do you think

660
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 3: could have been different that would have made you choose differently?

661
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 2: Man, it goes you go all the way back because

662
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:42,560
Speaker 2: if I say something, then it's kind of easy to

663
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 2: dig something else. We will even go to the situation

664
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,320
Speaker 2: of the civil war in Sala Aloda that never happened, right,

665
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:54,000
Speaker 2: and then we will go there was already gangs in La,

666
00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: but then you started going into like all the discrimination

667
00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 2: that happened to like the zutsu writers or the patchukos,

668
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: you know, back in the thirties and the forties, or

669
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,600
Speaker 2: the nineteen sixties civil rights movement, or you know the

670
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 2: war on poverty in the sixties that the government promised

671
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 2: and never happened. You know, then the funding of militarizing

672
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 2: the police, that just consisted of oppression and profiling the

673
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: brown and black brother writers sister, that led to all

674
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 2: these things. But you know, to begin to answer your question,

675
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: I think I used to play baseball. I'm huge baseball

676
00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:30,240
Speaker 2: and huge. I used to tell people when I was

677
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 2: an elementary, I'm never going to join a gang. Hell no,

678
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 2: I'm never going to join a gang. And I was

679
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:38,360
Speaker 2: in baseball teams and I wanted to be that all

680
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:40,640
Speaker 2: star in the baseball team. I wanted to be that

681
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,840
Speaker 2: home run hitter. I wanted to be that star player. Right,

682
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,720
Speaker 2: But the funding to the park started to run out,

683
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 2: And what was a grass field park when the funding

684
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 2: ran out was just a dirt field park full of syrengers,

685
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 2: broken forty guns, bottles, people shooting up drugs in the corners,

686
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,360
Speaker 2: smoking crack cocaine. The crack of pandemic was during that time,

687
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:05,480
Speaker 2: right in the eighties and the early nineties, and a

688
00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: lot of it consisted of me making bad choices as well,

689
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: I can't put everything off on everybody else too. I'm

690
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,600
Speaker 2: just sure that if there was a lot of different

691
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,280
Speaker 2: sports activities. I didn't have a father at home. I

692
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,360
Speaker 2: never met my dad, you know. But the dad that

693
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 2: I did have, he was awesome. He was there on

694
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 2: and off. He took us to Disneylands, to raging waters,

695
00:33:24,280 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 2: to fucking we had barbecue s got in. He always

696
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 2: tried to take us out of that environment, but it's

697
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 2: just where we also lived the rage. It was a

698
00:33:36,080 --> 00:33:39,640
Speaker 2: boily pot, and it seemed like the only solution that

699
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:45,480
Speaker 2: the system had was to lock everybody up. Yeah, and

700
00:33:46,720 --> 00:33:50,080
Speaker 2: there's some people that say, well, there's other people that

701
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 2: got out of that, right, there's other people that were

702
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,240
Speaker 2: able to get out of that. And I remember this activist,

703
00:33:56,360 --> 00:34:00,600
Speaker 2: I believe his name was Dwayne. I forgot his last names.

704
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:00,840
Speaker 1: An Rock Johnson.

705
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:09,880
Speaker 2: I just fought shoes actually to work out, and some

706
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:16,239
Speaker 2: pretty good shoes. But anyway, but anyways, he said, Okay, Well,

707
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:18,360
Speaker 2: my response to those people, they say, why can't you

708
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,520
Speaker 2: make him out, He's like, I didn't build this poor

709
00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:25,760
Speaker 2: education system. I didn't build drugs, I didn't build gang violence.

710
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,680
Speaker 2: I didn't build people not having jobs what if I'm

711
00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 2: not that strong to rise above that, right, right, you,

712
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,680
Speaker 2: why don't you come over here try to rise upb that.

713
00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,960
Speaker 2: You know, my brother he was able to rise above

714
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 2: that though. You know, he's an attorney. He went to

715
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 2: the military for like eight or nine years and he

716
00:34:41,640 --> 00:34:43,839
Speaker 2: got his PhD. In law.

717
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:45,840
Speaker 1: He's your little brother, right, That's what I was going

718
00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:46,759
Speaker 1: to ask for my older brother.

719
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:47,680
Speaker 5: Here's your older brother.

720
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was. He was totally against whatever I was doing,

721
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:53,959
Speaker 2: and he would definitely try to counsel me and tell

722
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,960
Speaker 2: me not to and my mom as well, my grandma

723
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,360
Speaker 2: as well. They'll be praying and let know, all the

724
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,200
Speaker 2: candles when I got home late at night because there

725
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: was shootings everywhere. You could just hear everywhere, and they

726
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:06,839
Speaker 2: were hoping it was me that wasn't gonna get killed.

727
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 2: But then again, right, I have to point a finger

728
00:35:09,440 --> 00:35:11,400
Speaker 2: on myself, the bad choices that I made, the addiction

729
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 2: lifestyle that I had, and it really takes a village

730
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,680
Speaker 2: to raise a kid out of that situation right.

731
00:35:18,480 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 3: There, right right, I have I have lots of questions

732
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 3: for uh, for later on in your journey, because I

733
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:30,239
Speaker 3: think it's amazing. But but before we get there, so like, what, like,

734
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 3: what is everyday life? Like are you committing crimes?

735
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:36,440
Speaker 1: Like what what? What are you doing every day in

736
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:37,120
Speaker 1: the game?

737
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, wake up at eight, rob three people by.

738
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:54,880
Speaker 2: Nine by ten o'clock. Oh man, well you know what,

739
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 2: I thought it was gonna be totally different. You know,

740
00:35:57,760 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 2: we got in, We're like, okay, we want to go

741
00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:02,720
Speaker 2: eat here. Everyone to go eat there. Okay. I felt

742
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 2: that I own my neighborhood as soon as I got

743
00:36:04,640 --> 00:36:07,120
Speaker 2: into MNS and now I could just go walk out

744
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:09,640
Speaker 2: and I literally felt that song. It's like an old

745
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:14,239
Speaker 2: these songs, like it's a beautiful morning, I think for

746
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,600
Speaker 2: a while, and my little brother was like, eah, my

747
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 2: brother's clever, Like oh shit, okay the other day we

748
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,560
Speaker 2: know clever Like okay, yeah, they're playing baseball peacefully. And

749
00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:26,680
Speaker 2: I was like, shit, well no, you're stuck over here

750
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,840
Speaker 2: now having to gang bang. But and everyday life wasn't

751
00:36:31,239 --> 00:36:34,520
Speaker 2: oh man. It consisted of getting up like a twelve

752
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:40,440
Speaker 2: or two. Okay, you start to iron your pants, and

753
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 2: I remember my grandma lecturing me, man, you gotta stop

754
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: doing this. Herado and she's doing pancakes at the same time,

755
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,400
Speaker 2: and I'm ironing my pants. I weighed about one hundred

756
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,759
Speaker 2: and thirty five pounds. I was probably about six feet

757
00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,399
Speaker 2: already when I was like fourteen or fifteen, and I'm

758
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:58,040
Speaker 2: ironing my pants for like forty five minutes. Is the

759
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 2: Dickies they were like size fifties, right, You're creasing them up.

760
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 2: And then you have your Dicky shirt, your Ben David shirt.

761
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 2: You're creasing that up and putting starch on it, and

762
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,120
Speaker 2: your grandma's screaming, my god, how much more you can

763
00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 2: iron those pants? But they have to be pleaded. And

764
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,080
Speaker 2: then the Nike Corteses.

765
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: And then real Style Elementary.

766
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 7: I was stylish. It's like I was going to the office, right.

767
00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,680
Speaker 7: I wasn't go hang out normandy at anything gang bang,

768
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,600
Speaker 7: but I wanted to look sharp. Then my friends come

769
00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:37,480
Speaker 7: and they start whistling out the windows, clever, clever. And

770
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,880
Speaker 7: then my grandma, my mom, you know, my grandma, My

771
00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:43,120
Speaker 7: mom was working. My grandma goes to the window and

772
00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 7: starts cussing them out, get out of here.

773
00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 2: And they go around the corner, and you know, they

774
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:51,839
Speaker 2: call me, and you know, I get ready my pancakes,

775
00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:55,600
Speaker 2: and my Grandma's just lecturing you, and you just drowned

776
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,680
Speaker 2: out her words as you shut the door, and it's

777
00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:02,680
Speaker 2: that's what gang was. You didn't know what that day

778
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:07,200
Speaker 2: was gonna behold, and you being curious of not knowing

779
00:38:07,239 --> 00:38:10,040
Speaker 2: what that day was going to behold was almost like

780
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,880
Speaker 2: an adventure to you, not knowing what the outcome was

781
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:17,640
Speaker 2: gonna be, not knowing if you were actually gonna make

782
00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,920
Speaker 2: it back alive, and walking down the street with that

783
00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,440
Speaker 2: pride when people looked at you, they looked away, or

784
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:28,719
Speaker 2: they looked down, or the neighborhood people treating you like

785
00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: that celebrity every single day. So I guess we needed

786
00:38:32,200 --> 00:38:34,239
Speaker 2: that every single day. And then the night time hit

787
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 2: and we were probably already drank about three or four

788
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,040
Speaker 2: old English foties. Back then, we were pretty much drunk.

789
00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 2: So you're navigating the night drunk with other people that

790
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 2: are also on your level drunk that I probably been

791
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 2: through some shinner lives and the only way that you

792
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 2: know how to drawn out that sorrows through drugs and

793
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:57,879
Speaker 2: alcohol and violence. And sometimes you get shot at, right,

794
00:38:57,920 --> 00:38:59,800
Speaker 2: and I remember getting shot at probably about fifteen or

795
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: twenty times throughout my whole time being from from MS.

796
00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:05,440
Speaker 1: And did you ever get shot?

797
00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 2: You know, I never got shot, but I have a

798
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 2: feeling that a lot of times I was being shot

799
00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 2: because they were aim high and I'm tall. Either it

800
00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,399
Speaker 2: was that or they were just some really bad there's

801
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 2: really bad shooters and gangs.

802
00:39:17,000 --> 00:39:20,719
Speaker 1: Horrific shooters. Probably for the.

803
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: Best, but that's kind of how it was. And then

804
00:39:26,600 --> 00:39:28,319
Speaker 2: you know, you get with a girl and you know

805
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:31,000
Speaker 2: there's like a gangster girl and she's going through some

806
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,959
Speaker 2: shit too. It's always that attention. It's always that time.

807
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 2: You know, we didn't have the cell phones back then,

808
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,279
Speaker 2: or we didn't have social media where you could really

809
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 2: just check on Instagram or on TikTok or whatever to

810
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: see what's going on in Normandy eighth, Right, we didn't

811
00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:46,880
Speaker 2: have that, right, so that kind of takes the element

812
00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,120
Speaker 2: of surprise, right, That might have stayed home more, but

813
00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:52,080
Speaker 2: we didn't have that element to know what was going

814
00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: on in that street corner, so we kind of just

815
00:39:54,239 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 2: went a lot of it consisted of listening to all

816
00:39:56,800 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 2: these songs, getting high, drinking beer, and protecting our neighborhood

817
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,960
Speaker 2: every single night. All these songs, Yeah, all these songs

818
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,759
Speaker 2: like you know breandham Wood, Marvin Gay, the Ten, You

819
00:40:10,800 --> 00:40:13,239
Speaker 2: know that was the gangster ship back in those days,

820
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:13,719
Speaker 2: right there.

821
00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,920
Speaker 1: Wah wow was good ass music.

822
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:17,680
Speaker 5: I was like, who knew I was cool?

823
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 2: We need to bring all of these back.

824
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:26,959
Speaker 3: I so, tell us about you're like arrested on and off,

825
00:40:27,040 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 3: Is that right? How long does this all kind of

826
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:30,680
Speaker 3: go on for?

827
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: I think I started getting resting when I was fourteen,

828
00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:36,759
Speaker 2: until like the age of probably nineteen. Several times I

829
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:40,120
Speaker 2: was in juvenile facilities California Youth Authority, and it was

830
00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:44,720
Speaker 2: arrest for robberies, for assaults on people, other gang members,

831
00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 2: for smoking drugs. I obviously I grew up in the

832
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: crack era in La so I definitely experimented with crack cocaine.

833
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,239
Speaker 2: There was a lot of times in that era in

834
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,880
Speaker 2: the early nineties, were a whole lot of gang members

835
00:40:58,280 --> 00:41:01,680
Speaker 2: that were from Chicano Gang. It was almost like everybody

836
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 2: was smoking cray. It was kids that were smoking crack.

837
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,319
Speaker 2: You know, you laced it up in your tobacco, you

838
00:41:07,360 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: laced it up in your weed. And as a teenager,

839
00:41:11,040 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 2: I was skinny. I was just always skinning my whole life.

840
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:15,560
Speaker 2: But I was even skinnier when I started smoking that.

841
00:41:15,640 --> 00:41:18,399
Speaker 2: And when I saw other gang members, it was kids

842
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 2: that were gang banging, but it was kind of hooked

843
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,080
Speaker 2: on crack cocaine. That was the crack cocaine times during

844
00:41:24,120 --> 00:41:25,800
Speaker 2: that time, and sometimes we would be up for a

845
00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:30,040
Speaker 2: long time smoking that stuff. But yeah, it went on

846
00:41:30,120 --> 00:41:33,319
Speaker 2: and off of getting locked up and right there, they

847
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:36,960
Speaker 2: give you six months, and then it consists of getting

848
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 2: your respect, protecting your honor, which was the gang MS,

849
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 2: and fighting against other people, and that would add up

850
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: a month into your sentence, two months into your sentence,

851
00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:49,920
Speaker 2: three months into your sentence, and eventually, you know, I

852
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,880
Speaker 2: kept getting refouled from camps around that area and no

853
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,520
Speaker 2: camp wanted me, and then they sent me to the

854
00:41:56,560 --> 00:42:01,160
Speaker 2: California Youth Authority. Started getting into more fights, and then

855
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 2: I landed in Hitts at the age of eighteen years

856
00:42:04,719 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 2: old and white Ts, you're right there. From when you're

857
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:10,480
Speaker 2: about eighteen to the age of twenty five. Everybody was huge,

858
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 2: they were all buff and all like shit, it's a

859
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:20,360
Speaker 2: fucking hard fights with these fools. So sad, yeah, And

860
00:42:20,760 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 2: it was crazy how it happened because there was other

861
00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,759
Speaker 2: MS thirteam members that had already been locked up for

862
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 2: five years that they were getting along with their enemies.

863
00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 2: Because they already fought them like ten or fifteen times.

864
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:31,520
Speaker 2: They've been locked up with each other for like five

865
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,600
Speaker 2: six years. So they started getting along with each other.

866
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 2: Oh that's when I caught it. Started saying, wait a minute, man,

867
00:42:37,920 --> 00:42:39,960
Speaker 2: these guys are not These are getting along with each other,

868
00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 2: So why should I start shitting you know, Let's see

869
00:42:42,640 --> 00:42:43,120
Speaker 2: what happens.

870
00:42:43,239 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 5: So that was kind of the doorway back.

871
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,200
Speaker 2: And they started doing that. Yeah, it started doing that.

872
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,440
Speaker 2: And you know, even the bigger doorway was when I

873
00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:54,719
Speaker 2: went to a group session, a counseling session. It was

874
00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:58,319
Speaker 2: almost like that movie, you know, Will Smith where he's

875
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:00,480
Speaker 2: locked up. I forgot what this movie when he's like

876
00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: a superhero dude and every time they try to talk

877
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,800
Speaker 2: to me, he says past and he's like a discounseling session.

878
00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:09,600
Speaker 2: He's like the super deer smoking. He's like drinking forty

879
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: ounce Beers's.

880
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 5: Listening to this podcast. We have no theraphy.

881
00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 1: Wait, I want to find it? Is it? Is it? Uh?

882
00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 2: It is like one word.

883
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:25,080
Speaker 1: I don't I don't know the Will's hit filmography.

884
00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:30,680
Speaker 2: Well enough something anyway, no no notice, I led you

885
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,040
Speaker 2: down the wrong path. I let you go down the

886
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:37,160
Speaker 2: wrong shop my whole lot. I'm like, shit, don't go

887
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:38,640
Speaker 2: down that street. You're gonna get shot.

888
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:42,160
Speaker 5: Okay.

889
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:44,799
Speaker 4: So it's kind of like the Will Smith movie, like

890
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:46,759
Speaker 4: you're just like past past past.

891
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, yeah, So we're at their past past pass.

892
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 2: He's going through a councilor session in his jail. And

893
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 2: I was eighteen, and these guys that were there in YA,

894
00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 2: they're about twenty three, twenty four years old, and someone

895
00:43:57,600 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: were life and they were just waiting to turn to

896
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,520
Speaker 2: five to catch the chain, meaning that they were just

897
00:44:02,560 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 2: waiting to go to prison to do fifty or sixty years.

898
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:09,720
Speaker 2: But their whole time, they already fought with their enemies.

899
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:12,000
Speaker 2: And this is what you put the worst of the

900
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 2: worst sort of speak in their terms, right, this is

901
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 2: the last ya. Right. And so I'm going through this

902
00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:22,120
Speaker 2: council session and the lady's talking to me, and I

903
00:44:22,280 --> 00:44:25,720
Speaker 2: just start acting up, cussing her out, throwing chairs because

904
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:28,600
Speaker 2: in jewing off facilities or in camps, that's how you

905
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 2: kind of got people to like you or said oh

906
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 2: this was crazy, you know, or and they sent me

907
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:36,560
Speaker 2: to my room. And when I went to my room,

908
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,200
Speaker 2: when I look outside, my winded to get some type

909
00:44:39,200 --> 00:44:41,400
Speaker 2: of acknowledgement, like they gave me a thumbs up or

910
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:44,680
Speaker 2: like a knowledge saying yeah, this was a trip. They

911
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:50,880
Speaker 2: kind of just kind of shipped their head. They looked example,

912
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:56,359
Speaker 2: the show that I just put on. So the two

913
00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 2: days later let me out and I just kind of

914
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:01,319
Speaker 2: sit and see what was going on. And these guys, again,

915
00:45:01,320 --> 00:45:03,640
Speaker 2: there were twenty four, so they've been through these therapy sessions.

916
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,359
Speaker 2: They were thirteen or fourteen years old too, and they

917
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 2: started learning that if you start agreeing with the counselor

918
00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:15,200
Speaker 2: or started making all these sophisticated words or sophisticated phrases,

919
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:18,399
Speaker 2: you get juice from them meaning love, like they're being

920
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,879
Speaker 2: a play of food, or they really acknowledge you. So

921
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 2: the whole counseling session consisted of who could bullshit this

922
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 2: counselor the most, and they would be drinking their coffee

923
00:45:32,280 --> 00:45:34,279
Speaker 2: and they were as soon as they stopped talking. These

924
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,319
Speaker 2: guys were like fucking politicians, Like they're talking to this

925
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 2: counselor making it her believe that they were like reform

926
00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 2: members of society. And I'm partly sure someone will probably were,

927
00:45:43,480 --> 00:45:45,719
Speaker 2: but I mean I talked personally to a few women.

928
00:45:45,760 --> 00:45:51,200
Speaker 2: They were not, but but it just consisted of who

929
00:45:51,280 --> 00:45:54,360
Speaker 2: had the most game, who had the best mouthpiece to

930
00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,480
Speaker 2: convince this counselor. And I just started listening, and when

931
00:45:57,680 --> 00:45:59,279
Speaker 2: it came to me, I just said past. And that's

932
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 2: whether will Smith the story tis past, past past, And

933
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,400
Speaker 2: I started talking little by little and started saying, you know,

934
00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,120
Speaker 2: I could bullshit my way through here, like these foods

935
00:46:08,120 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: are doing. And but you see, it became in the

936
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 2: addiction lifestyle of what I was feeding my mind. I

937
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,799
Speaker 2: started saying to myself the gang banging was bad, that

938
00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:19,120
Speaker 2: when I get out, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna

939
00:46:19,160 --> 00:46:22,200
Speaker 2: do that. But my brain didn't understand that I was lying.

940
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: My brain just understood that I was feeding a different

941
00:46:25,760 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 2: information as when I was saying Master teen and Master

942
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: Team and Master teaen fucked my enemy, right, it was

943
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,480
Speaker 2: something different. And we just kept doing this over and

944
00:46:35,520 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 2: over and I was like, well, if these are the

945
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 2: alpha males and this is how you get your respect here,

946
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:43,080
Speaker 2: well I want to be the star player up in

947
00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 2: this motherfucker.

948
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:51,080
Speaker 8: All the rules have just completely changed, like beyond just

949
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 8: going through normal puberty and how much being a dager

950
00:46:54,640 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 8: sucks to.

951
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 3: Begin with, so you're just bullshitting so hard that you

952
00:46:58,520 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 3: start to believe the bullshit.

953
00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:02,520
Speaker 1: It's like deprogramming you kind of exactly.

954
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 2: It's like some type of virus to hit my computer

955
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 2: or something, you know. That was kind of helping me out.

956
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 2: And then when I was going to the parole board,

957
00:47:11,239 --> 00:47:13,919
Speaker 2: there's law classes late at night, like at one two

958
00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:16,799
Speaker 2: in the morning, and these facilities late at night at

959
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:21,239
Speaker 2: yts and these tears where people are acting like through

960
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,640
Speaker 2: the board members and obviously the person that's going to

961
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:27,280
Speaker 2: board is that the persons being paroled, and they're acting

962
00:47:27,320 --> 00:47:29,759
Speaker 2: like they're answering these questions. So why do you want

963
00:47:29,800 --> 00:47:31,839
Speaker 2: to get parole? No, you're gonna get shot down. Give

964
00:47:31,880 --> 00:47:34,160
Speaker 2: me an an answer. It's almost like a law school

965
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:36,560
Speaker 2: late at night, and I'm listening and listening, and then

966
00:47:36,600 --> 00:47:38,799
Speaker 2: when I go right there and they ask me, so,

967
00:47:38,960 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 2: head out of the Lopez, are you still from MS thirteen now?

968
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:43,960
Speaker 2: I was like, well, yeah, that's my gang and I'm

969
00:47:43,960 --> 00:47:45,680
Speaker 2: gonna die for it, even though I have changed all

970
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,959
Speaker 2: these different lifestyles. Parot de night and I'm like, shit,

971
00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 2: you know, so the inmates you're right with you? Within

972
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 2: the trial right there denied my parole right, and I

973
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 2: go to the event, so I told her, got hey, man.

974
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,399
Speaker 2: He started laughing, and he's like, man, you go to paro,

975
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,520
Speaker 2: you better freak telling you're not from MS thirteen.

976
00:48:01,520 --> 00:48:04,000
Speaker 1: You can get.

977
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:08,360
Speaker 2: So when I went to parole board, everybody was in

978
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:10,160
Speaker 2: their suits and their tires, you know, the parole boards.

979
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,840
Speaker 2: And I'm right there and I'm like, damn, I remember

980
00:48:11,840 --> 00:48:13,759
Speaker 2: all these sessions from the tier late at night at

981
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:15,840
Speaker 2: want two in the morning, while these other images practicing

982
00:48:15,840 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 2: my parole thing, And so are you still from MS thirteen?

983
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 2: Absolutely not sure. I haven't been from MS thirteen for

984
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 2: so a while. And I go on and I go on,

985
00:48:24,080 --> 00:48:25,799
Speaker 2: and I go on. But that was one of the

986
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:30,040
Speaker 2: first times where I heard myself say that I wasn't

987
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,719
Speaker 2: from MS thirteen. Again, my brain did not understand that

988
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:37,520
Speaker 2: I was bullshitting, but it was somewhat of a repetition

989
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,000
Speaker 2: and repetition, and I think I'd said it throughout the

990
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: parode time, like five or ten times, so that kind

991
00:48:42,719 --> 00:48:46,840
Speaker 2: of opened waivers or opened a huge uh. I don't know.

992
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 2: There's this saying in Spanish that says the meaning my

993
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,400
Speaker 2: mom telling me, or people that tell you you're drowning

994
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:56,920
Speaker 2: in a cup of water, meaning the cup of water

995
00:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 2: are your thoughts that you're just so drowning in. And

996
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:03,520
Speaker 2: if you bust out of that cup of water, you know,

997
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:07,400
Speaker 2: without those defeated thoughts or you know, those negative thoughts,

998
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:10,120
Speaker 2: those self defeating thoughts, you start to find out that

999
00:49:10,160 --> 00:49:14,080
Speaker 2: there's a whole ocean right there to swimming. And that

1000
00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:15,960
Speaker 2: first time when I said I wasn't from Amester thirteen,

1001
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:18,239
Speaker 2: it kind of finally carried on to the next part

1002
00:49:18,239 --> 00:49:21,800
Speaker 2: of the story. They parolled me. You know, I was

1003
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:25,120
Speaker 2: bullshitting them, so they got locked up again, and then

1004
00:49:25,160 --> 00:49:28,319
Speaker 2: I got out again. But during this time, the last

1005
00:49:28,320 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 2: time when I got out, I think I was like

1006
00:49:29,880 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 2: twenty There was this guy that started Homie on Needles,

1007
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,879
Speaker 2: which is a gang intervention organization, and he was an

1008
00:49:35,880 --> 00:49:38,319
Speaker 2: OG from MS. He was about twenty five twenty six,

1009
00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:40,880
Speaker 2: a person that I really looked up to, and I

1010
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:42,680
Speaker 2: was like, man, why is this guy starting this gang

1011
00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:45,160
Speaker 2: intervention organization? And he was talking to me in the

1012
00:49:45,160 --> 00:49:48,400
Speaker 2: street corner and I was gang banged out obviously, and

1013
00:49:48,440 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 2: I had to respect power and pride, and he was

1014
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,080
Speaker 2: talking about homis to attend this group session. But what

1015
00:49:54,200 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 2: is it. It's just different people from different gangs, just

1016
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:58,719
Speaker 2: you know, talking and trying to put peace in the neighborhood.

1017
00:49:58,719 --> 00:50:00,960
Speaker 2: Like I don't know what. At the same time, you know,

1018
00:50:01,239 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 2: I think those White Ts sessions, you know when I

1019
00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:06,040
Speaker 2: was BS. You know, it's kind of intrigued a little

1020
00:50:06,080 --> 00:50:09,319
Speaker 2: bit because he was doing it and as I was

1021
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,680
Speaker 2: talking to him, like I said, that neighborhood that you know,

1022
00:50:12,760 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 2: all those Hollywood movies used to happen right the Norman

1023
00:50:15,239 --> 00:50:17,720
Speaker 2: Ay streets. I looked at the windows and my little

1024
00:50:17,719 --> 00:50:19,600
Speaker 2: brother was looking at me. There was different people that

1025
00:50:19,600 --> 00:50:21,319
Speaker 2: would hang around balconies that were looking at me, so

1026
00:50:21,320 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 2: they wanted to be just like me as well. I

1027
00:50:24,000 --> 00:50:27,000
Speaker 2: remember as a kid, you know, when I would turn

1028
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,160
Speaker 2: off like save by the bell and look on my window.

1029
00:50:29,480 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 2: I was looking at the guy in the corner that

1030
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:33,280
Speaker 2: everybody want to be with. So I kind of became

1031
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,000
Speaker 2: that person. So it was that cycle of violence where

1032
00:50:36,000 --> 00:50:38,920
Speaker 2: I kind of understood, where does this stop, or I

1033
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:40,600
Speaker 2: should at least give it a try. This old g

1034
00:50:40,760 --> 00:50:42,040
Speaker 2: from my neighborhood is doing it.

1035
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,839
Speaker 3: To be continued next week. Lots more to get into

1036
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:50,839
Speaker 3: with Harado. In the meantime, Megan. So, let's say you're

1037
00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 3: a teenager and you're living in a really rough neighborhood.

1038
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:54,880
Speaker 1: There's a lot of violence.

1039
00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,040
Speaker 3: You feel unsafe doing anything that you want to do

1040
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 3: in your neighborhood because gang members are harassed you. What

1041
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 3: do you think if you had an opportunity to then

1042
00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:06,080
Speaker 3: join the gang and become one of them, as opposed

1043
00:51:06,080 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 3: to being afraid of them all the time, do you

1044
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 3: think you would do it?

1045
00:51:09,280 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 5: Yeah? I do?

1046
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, me too.

1047
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:13,799
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I don't know what other option you

1048
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,279
Speaker 4: really have. That's the scariest part.

1049
00:51:16,719 --> 00:51:19,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like he was talking about how the

1050
00:51:19,400 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 3: funding ran out for some of the social programs in

1051
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:25,720
Speaker 3: the neighborhood, and you know, that kind of thing is

1052
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:28,000
Speaker 3: so important, it's such a lifeline. And if you don't

1053
00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 3: have that, and if you don't have an alternative community

1054
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 3: to turn to of kids your own age, you know, like,

1055
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 3: I don't. I don't think that any of us. I

1056
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:40,000
Speaker 3: think that anyone who tries to say that if they

1057
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:42,560
Speaker 3: were in that position they would do differently needs to

1058
00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:46,359
Speaker 3: take a long, hard look at how self delusional they are.

1059
00:51:47,200 --> 00:51:50,239
Speaker 4: I mean, especially when you're younger, the survival instinct is

1060
00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 4: just so it's how you make decisions and to be

1061
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,400
Speaker 4: a lone wolf in a world where there's gangs, I

1062
00:51:57,719 --> 00:51:58,879
Speaker 4: don't I don't know how.

1063
00:51:59,160 --> 00:52:01,920
Speaker 3: Right on top of like A, you want to survive

1064
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,800
Speaker 3: B your brain isn't even fully cooked until you're twenty

1065
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:08,760
Speaker 3: five years old. So like a seventeen year old kid

1066
00:52:08,920 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 3: like or however old he was, I think he was

1067
00:52:10,880 --> 00:52:15,239
Speaker 3: even younger than that, actually, Like, I'm sorry if you

1068
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 3: think that, that's just like somebody choosing to do to

1069
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 3: like be bad for no reason. I think that's so stupid.

1070
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 3: On that note, if anyone has any recommendations for organizations

1071
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:30,239
Speaker 3: that help promote what is the word peace, community programs

1072
00:52:30,480 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 3: or you know whatever in Los Angeles, I that is

1073
00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 3: something I really am interested in.

1074
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:37,560
Speaker 1: So so hype. Yeah, and anyway, I guess that's it.

1075
00:52:37,560 --> 00:52:38,200
Speaker 5: It sure is.

1076
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 4: That was an amazing, amazing interview. I can't wait for

1077
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 4: next week and until then, remember to follow your gut,

1078
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:49,239
Speaker 4: watch out my red flag, and never ever tried to

1079
00:52:49,239 --> 00:53:02,880
Speaker 4: me bad