Speaker 1: On The Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are
Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands or do they
Speaker 2: have individualism? It's the patriarchy, zeph and Beast start changing
Speaker 2: it with the Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 1: Wow wow, wow Wow, look at us, We look at us.
Speaker 3: We're saying anything, Kitlin.
Speaker 1: One of the things I've always loved about you is
Speaker 1: that you'll say kind of anything.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: I feel like there's a version of say anything that's
Speaker 1: about like a shock jock. You know, this guy'll say.
Speaker 3: And he's not afraid to say it like it is.
Speaker 1: It's actually a Joe Rogan biopic title when you think
Speaker 1: about it, because that man simply does be saying anything.
Speaker 1: He really does, he'd be saying so many things. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Bechdel Cast. My name is jam Loftus and
Speaker 1: my name is.
Speaker 3: Kaydarante, and we are doing a little intro for a
Speaker 3: show that we did live in Portland. So most of
Speaker 3: this episode is the live show, and I think that's
Speaker 3: kind of really all we need to say to introduce it.
Speaker 1: I think so yeah. I mean, we were in Portland, Oregon.
Speaker 1: We were at one of our favorite places curious comedy
Speaker 1: theaters support them if you're in the area. And we
Speaker 1: didn't have a guest on this show, and that's because
Speaker 1: we are special.
Speaker 3: Weird, so strong and independent.
Speaker 1: We watched this movie and we're like, it's a love
Speaker 1: story between a father and his daughter. We've got this one.
Speaker 1: We've got this one, and we put on our little
Speaker 1: outfits and we do do doot it out to stage.
Speaker 1: And actually, what I will say before that, if you
Speaker 1: want to see us do doot dude out on stage,
Speaker 1: we are asking a bunch of tour dates for next
Speaker 1: year coming up soon as well as in Los Angeles
Speaker 1: on December tenth. If you're in town, we're covering It's
Speaker 1: a Wonderful Life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, at Dynasty Typewriter in Los Angeles. Ever heard of it?
Speaker 3: On December tenth. Tickets for that are on sale. You
Speaker 3: can grab them on our link tree, link tree slash
Speaker 3: Bechtel Cast and uh yeah, stay tuned for more tour dates.
Speaker 3: And also if you want to see us out on
Speaker 3: stage for this specific show that you're about to hear
Speaker 3: the episode for, Let's say you want a visual aid
Speaker 3: or you just want to see more stuff because we
Speaker 3: cut out some like fun and games from the audio
Speaker 3: version of the episode, but that you can see in
Speaker 3: video format you can buy on demand tickets. The link
Speaker 3: for that will also be on our link tree.
Speaker 1: So yes, and we looked so so please enjoy that.
Speaker 1: But but if you know, if you want to just
Speaker 1: listen in the ca we had to stand and here
Speaker 1: we are saying quite literally.
Speaker 3: Any anything.
Speaker 2: The bedellcast.
Speaker 1: So before we started the show, I just want to
Speaker 1: do some housekeeping. We've received some really excellent treats. I
Speaker 1: feel like, Okay, first of all, we love being in
Speaker 1: Portland so much. It's the city we have come to
Speaker 1: most in the country.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we.
Speaker 1: Absolutely love doing shows here. We literally do shows here
Speaker 1: more so than where we live. Yeah, it's we really
Speaker 1: love it here. We we love get to hang out
Speaker 1: with you guys here. And I will say consistently because
Speaker 1: we were here earlier this year, and give it up
Speaker 1: if you were here earlier this year, all right, welcome
Speaker 1: back some returning friends. Yeah, and so you'll remember that,
Speaker 1: you know, there were a number of hot dogs brought
Speaker 1: and I threw a knife at the audience and Portland
Speaker 1: did not a point this time around, because early I
Speaker 1: gotta I gotta, I checked my other folder the other day,
Speaker 1: and that's a dangerous place to be.
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, this is.
Speaker 1: But I got one of the most pleasant messages in
Speaker 1: the entire world from a man named Julian from Old
Speaker 1: Town Pizza next Door give it up for there, saying
Speaker 1: what I have been waiting for someone to say to
Speaker 1: me my whole life, which is, do you want a
Speaker 1: hot dog pizza hot and ready next door?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: So I would like to present to you and offer
Speaker 1: to the audience hot dog pizza like it's and like
Speaker 1: you can if you're within fifty feet you can smell it. Yes,
Speaker 1: does anyone want some? Okay? Wow, Okay, I'll give them
Speaker 1: out during the recap. I'll come out into the eye.
Speaker 1: We've got some plates. I just really want to spread
Speaker 1: spread the joy here, all right, all right, okay, we're here.
Speaker 1: It's a chaotic start to the show.
Speaker 3: It sure is. Yes, So thanks once again to you
Speaker 3: for being here. Thank you so much. Give it off yourselves,
Speaker 3: and give it up to the people watching the live
Speaker 3: stream from wherever you are.
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, how stinky is that pizza? And You're like, oh, baby,
Speaker 1: you have no idea. It is a stinky pizza. And
Speaker 1: I mean that is a big compliment. Yes, yeah, so
Speaker 1: has anyone here never listened to our show before? Oh?
Speaker 3: Oh, you raised your hand? A couple of hands coming up.
Speaker 1: This is really fun because I've never heard someone put
Speaker 1: their hands together. It's just just a shameful, shaky race
Speaker 1: of the hand. It's fine, Like, it's just a podcast.
Speaker 1: It is not a big deal. It's probably you're like
Speaker 1: mentally healthier than most of the people here. If you don't,
Speaker 1: if you don't listen to podcast, it's fine. We should
Speaker 1: we should tell we should let those three people know
Speaker 1: what that is so true.
Speaker 3: We are the Bechtel Cast. We analyze movies through an
Speaker 3: intersectional feminist lens, using the Bechdel Test as a jumping
Speaker 3: off point. Well, Jimie, what is that? Oh?
Speaker 1: I will tell you. It is a media metric created
Speaker 1: by queer cartoonist Alison Bechdel, sometimes called the Bechdel Wallace Test.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of versions of the test, but basically
Speaker 1: it was made as a bit in the eighties for
Speaker 1: the incredible comic collection Dikes to Watch Out For. I knew,
Speaker 1: I knew we would get a whistle for that because
Speaker 1: Portland is cool. Yeah, there's a lot of versions of
Speaker 1: the test, but our version of the test requires that
Speaker 1: there be two characters of a marginalized gender with names
Speaker 1: who speak to each other about something other than a
Speaker 1: man for two lines of dialogue or more. We prefer
Speaker 1: if it is an interaction of meaning. But I am
Speaker 1: I was requested to make an exception for this movie specifically,
Speaker 1: which we will get to. But yeah, that's our whole deal.
Speaker 1: Do the three of you feel satisfied? Okay? Oh me
Speaker 1: a really meaningful nod, yes, thank you king. We do
Speaker 1: need the permission before we can move forward. Uh and uh,
Speaker 1: today we recovered we've we've covered a lot of movies
Speaker 1: from the Pacific Northwest. I know it's like technically disrespectful
Speaker 1: to cover a Seattle movie here, so we do apologize. Uh,
Speaker 1: but we are covering say Anything for this show. Who
Speaker 1: here has seen Say Anything? Give it up? By round
Speaker 1: of a par Yeah, hands, hands, folks, hands, all right,
Speaker 1: all right?
Speaker 3: Who has not ever seen the movies? By round of applause. Guys,
Speaker 3: it's not a second grade classroom. You get you can class.
Speaker 3: It's fun. Okay, it seems like kind of halfway split.
Speaker 3: So we're gonna have to do a really good job,
Speaker 3: we're telling them what the movie is.
Speaker 1: I guess, well, well, let's I think there's a halfway
Speaker 1: split on stage as well. Because had you seen this
Speaker 1: movie before?
Speaker 3: I had?
Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, what was your history with it?
Speaker 3: I saw it in college, maybe even in high school,
Speaker 3: but I don't know twenty years ago or so, and
Speaker 3: not since I didn't feel compelled to watch it again.
Speaker 1: Interesting? Interesting?
Speaker 3: And how about you, Jamie, what's your history with it?
Speaker 1: Nothing? Nothing, I had not seen. Yeah, this is like
Speaker 1: you know, I love Joan Cusack. So I was really
Speaker 1: excited to see her in this movie. And then unfortunately
Speaker 1: I did not really see her in this movie, which
Speaker 1: was a letdown. No, I didn't. I didn't grow up
Speaker 1: with this movie. I didn't have my dad had like
Speaker 1: a unique dislike of Peter Gabriel. Oh, and so this
Speaker 1: was just like never gonna make it into our rotation. Ever. Sure, ever, Ever,
Speaker 1: I don't know what it was though, Like I should have.
Speaker 1: I should have asked him before the show. But there's
Speaker 1: sometimes there were just like certain is he British? Ah?
Speaker 3: Does Peter Gabriel British?
Speaker 1: Is my friend is nodding yes, and she's saying yes
Speaker 1: audibly Okay, there are just like certain British people my
Speaker 1: dad doesn't fuck with. Is that weird?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Okay, well i'd never seen it and
Speaker 1: now I have, and and I have some things to say.
Speaker 1: I will say I do not dislike this movie. It's
Speaker 1: it's a weird movie. There's a lot of weird stuff
Speaker 1: going on. I was most tickled, thrilled and delighted to
Speaker 1: find that Fraser's dad plays a major role in it. Yes,
Speaker 1: I was shot. I heard his voice and there was
Speaker 1: like a sense memory that shook through my body. And
Speaker 1: he's in Seattle. I mean, hello, we gotta get Mahoney
Speaker 1: in Seattle. Do you think someone saw Mahoney in Say Anything?
Speaker 1: Was like, we gotta keep this guy in Seattle. He's
Speaker 1: so Seattle. We gotta make him the dad of the
Speaker 1: fanciest two boys. I just oh, I love as a
Speaker 1: Fraser Head. I really appreciated his presence. Okay, so Say Anything.
Speaker 1: It's a movie. It is uh. It's written and directed
Speaker 1: by Cameron Crow. It's produced by James Brooks and poly Platt.
Speaker 1: Give it for poly Platt, and you must remember this
Speaker 1: head's in the house. Okay, not enough interesting. Interesting, But yeah,
Speaker 1: it's from nineteen eighty nine, kind of a gen X
Speaker 1: classic stars John Cusack, sort of Joan Cusack. Okay, Caitlyn,
Speaker 1: I have Do you know how to say the lead
Speaker 1: actress's name in this movie?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 1: It was a real Owen McGregor for me.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, because I really didn't.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to be the first to say her
Speaker 1: name out loud, because I will.
Speaker 3: It's just a lot of owls. I meant to look
Speaker 3: it up. It is spelled Ione.
Speaker 1: Is that Owen M. MacGregor. I can't do it Eon? Ion?
Speaker 3: Does anybody know Ione?
Speaker 1: Unbelievable? Wow? All right, all right, we'll take your word
Speaker 1: for it this time. Can you say McGregor just for me?
Speaker 3: Do you mean you and McGregor.
Speaker 1: I just don't know that my mouth can make that shake?
Speaker 1: Can I wash your mouth? Can you do it again?
Speaker 3: Let me help you break it down. Yeah, you win,
Speaker 3: you and McGregor. You win, McGregor, Ewan McGregor.
Speaker 1: Close you you you win when you win, you win,
Speaker 1: you win.
Speaker 3: We have to move on.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, all right?
Speaker 3: Shall I do the recap? Are we ready for the recap?
Speaker 1: Caitlin's famous recap? All right, and while you do that,
Speaker 1: just in the front hands up for who wanted I have?
Speaker 1: I have three plates, so it's gonna be well, I
Speaker 1: guess it's just you too.
Speaker 3: There's someone.
Speaker 1: Oh that's oh okay, okay, okay, okay, okay, Caitlyn, don't
Speaker 1: worry about it. Don't worry about I'm just servicing my community, all.
Speaker 3: Right, Okay. It's the day of high school graduation for
Speaker 3: Lloyd played by John Cusack. He is telling his two
Speaker 3: best friends, who are women, what their names are, Corey
Speaker 3: and DC. He's telling them how he wants to take
Speaker 3: a girl named Diane Court out on a date. And
Speaker 3: Lloyd's friends are basically like, good luck with that. She's
Speaker 3: too smart for you. Because Diane Court played by Ione
Speaker 3: sky Eman McGregor, she is the valedictorian of her class.
Speaker 3: She gives a speech a graduation. Lloyd is like a wooga,
Speaker 3: what I he.
Speaker 1: Literally is doing? He's he's really doing the cartoon wolf
Speaker 1: thing in uh in in that where he's like talking
Speaker 1: over her speech, which we were talking about as we
Speaker 1: were watching it today. It's one of those incredible movie
Speaker 1: moments where she gives a speech that I think is like,
Speaker 1: inarguably mid like, oh, it's like gen X's nonsense. It's like,
Speaker 1: aren't you scared about the future? Me kind of scared
Speaker 1: about the future. And then all the kids are like,
Speaker 1: oh my god. Kurt Cobain like you're just like what
Speaker 1: the fuck is she talking about? There? What is she saying?
Speaker 1: And then later at the party, everyone's like, really cool speech, Diane,
Speaker 1: and you're like that speech was that was like a
Speaker 1: second draft at best?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it was a flop.
Speaker 1: I would say I really wish that she gave one
Speaker 1: of those like really incredible high school valedictorian speeches that
Speaker 1: always like the cadence of them is so beautiful to me,
Speaker 1: where it's like, hello, students, my name is Diane Court.
Speaker 3: Wow what a year? Uh huh twenty ten? Are you
Speaker 3: resigning your own graduation speech?
Speaker 2: Jamie?
Speaker 1: President Obama. He didn't become the president this year, but
Speaker 1: he did while we were in high school. I have
Speaker 1: so many good memories of it, Like, I love high
Speaker 1: school valedictorian speeches and hers was garbage. Yeah, And then
Speaker 1: meanwhile John Cusack is screaming over her, being like look
Speaker 1: at our eyes, and you're like, wow, I hope they
Speaker 1: end up together.
Speaker 3: Yes, Okay, So Diane's dad aka John Mahoney aka Fraser's dad,
Speaker 3: he is so proud of Diane. He gives her two
Speaker 3: graduation presidents. One of them is a car and the
Speaker 3: other one is an engagement ring.
Speaker 1: Her dad is trying to like Fraser's dad is trying
Speaker 1: to marry his daughter. The whole movie, it.
Speaker 3: Does really feel like that.
Speaker 1: It's very bizarre. The car, You're like, Okay, this is
Speaker 1: like kind of a classic. I mean, it becomes plot relevant,
Speaker 1: but like it's sort of a classic, you know, like
Speaker 1: upper middle class moment. But then when he sort of
Speaker 1: proposes to her later where he gives I'm like, imagine
Speaker 1: your father giving you a diamond ring.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, I could not imagine that. And then
Speaker 3: he's like, your mom gave this to me as it
Speaker 3: so his wife gave him a diamond ring.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we're not told what the occasion was. Also,
Speaker 1: it doesn't I also like, I don't, I mean, whatever,
Speaker 1: anyone can give anyone a diamond ring. Question. I don't
Speaker 1: know why I'm fighting for this right. Give a ring
Speaker 1: to whoever you want. But there's no way he and
Speaker 1: his daughter are the same ring size.
Speaker 3: True.
Speaker 1: That to me was unbelievable. Yeah, and I was just
Speaker 1: really focused on Yeah. It seemed like he really wanted to.
Speaker 1: And anytime they're on screen together, there's this like romantic
Speaker 1: music playing. Yes, You're just like, why are this strings
Speaker 1: swelling when this father it's giving his teenage daughter a
Speaker 1: diamond ring? Don't.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but it does happen in the movie,
Speaker 3: so sure talk about it.
Speaker 1: Sure does.
Speaker 3: Okay, So then Lloyd calls Diane. Her dad picks up,
Speaker 3: so Lloyd leaves a message. Diane then gets another call
Speaker 3: saying that she won a fellowship to study at a
Speaker 3: prestigious school in England. Ever heard of it?
Speaker 1: I love the vagueness of both the scholarship and the school. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we don't know what she's going to do or where
Speaker 1: she's going to do it, certainly not.
Speaker 3: Diane calls Lloyd back and he's like, go out with me,
Speaker 3: go out with me, come on, And she's like, I'm busy,
Speaker 3: and he's like, please, please please about a graduation party
Speaker 3: that's tonight and she's like, okay, you wore me down,
Speaker 3: I'll go.
Speaker 1: And I think that scene is interesting in a lot
Speaker 1: of ways because it's like she she later calls back
Speaker 1: to this scene being like, why did you go to
Speaker 1: the party with Lloyd? Because he made me laugh? I
Speaker 1: didn't see I didn't see her laugh a damn time. Nope,
Speaker 1: on that call, and I just you know, it's fine.
Speaker 1: It's like she wanted to go to a party, she
Speaker 1: wanted to get out of her you know, out of
Speaker 1: her comfort zone. So okay. But and it's very funny
Speaker 1: that she has to look up who he is in
Speaker 1: the yearbook. In the yearbook, pretty humiliating for him. But
Speaker 1: he does not he does not make her laugh.
Speaker 3: No, no, not on screen.
Speaker 1: And I do feel like that is representation of women
Speaker 1: pretending that men are funny when or not. Yeah, there
Speaker 1: is this incredible like I've done it. I've been guilty
Speaker 1: of this. Like if you're like, if you're a woman
Speaker 1: who dates men and and bless your heart, and you're
Speaker 1: like filming them like for an Instagram story or something,
Speaker 1: and they're doing something, and then I'm behind the iPhone
Speaker 1: eight doing this menacing laugh right, like a breathy laugh,
Speaker 1: pretending that someone's funny. It's disturbing she's I think that
Speaker 1: that was representation of that, whether Cameron Crowe realizes it
Speaker 1: or not. Cameron Crow probably thinks he's hilarious.
Speaker 3: I'm sure he does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm sure he does.
Speaker 3: But is he anyway? Okay, so he picks her up
Speaker 3: and they go to the party, and everyone there at
Speaker 3: the party loves Lloyd, and he is also made to
Speaker 3: be the key master. That's a thing. Diane meets a
Speaker 3: bunch of people. Lloyd and Diane do not hang out
Speaker 3: at the party at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that is my worst nightmare is going to a
Speaker 1: party thinking I have an ally and then being suddenly
Speaker 1: left out to dry. Yeah, but they seem fine with
Speaker 1: it whatever. I don't know.
Speaker 3: The party ends, Lloyd and Diane drive around all night.
Speaker 3: They're trying to give this kid a ride home who
Speaker 3: does not know where he lives. They finally drop him off,
Speaker 3: and then Diane is like, Wow, going to that party
Speaker 3: was awesome. I finally feel like I fit in And
Speaker 3: also you're a great date. But also you're basic.
Speaker 1: And I really liked that. That was She feels bad
Speaker 1: about it later, but I was like, that's kind of
Speaker 1: like the most metal thing Diane does in the entire movie. Yes,
Speaker 1: besides bust her father for tax fraud. That's a spoiler there,
Speaker 1: but but like that I really appreciated that because he
Speaker 1: was so into it. And then she was like, I
Speaker 1: don't know, maybe the parlance was slightly different then, but
Speaker 1: she was just like, you're boring, you fucking suck, and
Speaker 1: let's go out again.
Speaker 3: Fine by me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's dancing in the street. I think you know,
Speaker 1: if we if we Bouchemmy test a lot of the
Speaker 1: behavior of the John Cusack character. Yeah. Again, the Bouchemmy
Speaker 1: test being if Steve Bouschemmy age forty five was doing
Speaker 1: what the character in the movie is doing, is it
Speaker 1: weird or is it still romantic?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: You Bouchemi does that. It gets it, doesn't it doesn't
Speaker 1: bear out in his favor.
Speaker 3: No, certainly not. Okay. So then Lloyd goes to drop
Speaker 3: her off and he's like, I want to see you
Speaker 3: as much as I can before you leave, and she's like, okay,
Speaker 3: call me. And then the next date is Lloyd going
Speaker 3: to Diane's for dinner with her dad and some family
Speaker 3: friends and they're like, Lloyd, what do you want to
Speaker 3: do with your future? And he's like, I want to
Speaker 3: be a kickboxer.
Speaker 1: But I is that like is that like nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: nine DJ or ah or like ticked. I've been making
Speaker 1: these TikTok videos and they're really gonna people are gonna
Speaker 1: watch them any day now, I think.
Speaker 3: So, yeah, I'm clear because they're all like okay. And
Speaker 3: then during dinner, a couple IRS agents show up accusing
Speaker 3: Diane's dad of tax evasion. So now Diane is very upset.
Speaker 1: I think Frasier's dad, you know, kind of takes it
Speaker 1: in the stride. He was like, excuse me, I'm having
Speaker 1: a fucking party. I'm like, can you say that? Can
Speaker 1: you say that to the I R S. You're like,
Speaker 1: I'm busy.
Speaker 3: I don't know. So now the family is like going
Speaker 3: through this turmoil. Diane is upset, but she and Lloyd
Speaker 3: keep hanging out, and we see her at work where
Speaker 3: she works at a nursing home that her dad owns.
Speaker 3: Put a pin in that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Lloyd comes through. He shows them Cocoon on VHS. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's one of my favorite scenes in the movie.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I really. He's like, I've never seen it, but
Speaker 3: you might like it. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It seems like the old folks love cocoon.
Speaker 3: So one day, Lloyd and Diana are getting coffee and
Speaker 3: she's like, I'm just like really overwhelmed and I don't
Speaker 3: think I can have a social life right now. And
Speaker 3: they agree to be friends, but then he's like friends
Speaker 3: with potential and we're like, that's not what she said.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but it's really not what she said. But then
Speaker 1: he says it and she repeats it back to him
Speaker 1: because a man wrote this movie.
Speaker 3: Yes, And then there's a scene where he's teaching her
Speaker 3: how to drive her new car because women don't know
Speaker 3: how to drive. I don't know, and I mean, oh,
Speaker 3: because you don't know how to drive.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Unfortunately, don't awe me. I'm doing fine. I'm dressed
Speaker 1: like Barbie for no reason. Oh, now that's patronizing. There
Speaker 1: continue Why am I being so rude?
Speaker 3: I don't know. But they're in the car together and
Speaker 3: they're smooching. They're just going up, and then there's a
Speaker 3: montage of them kissing, and then they have sex in
Speaker 3: the backseat of a car that is near a body
Speaker 3: of water, and we're like, what is this? Jack and
Speaker 3: Rose in Titanic.
Speaker 1: She literally says you're trembling, yeah, yeah, or she doesn't
Speaker 1: say I mean, she says you're shaking. Because she's in
Speaker 1: she lives in nineteen eighty nine, not nineteen twelve. They
Speaker 1: don't use trembling anymore. But I was, yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: I was bowled over and how similar the scenes are.
Speaker 1: And we mutually agreed that even though this movie came
Speaker 1: out in eighty nine and Titanic came out in ninety seven,
Speaker 1: Cameron Crow is somehow ripping off Titanic. Yes, in this scene.
Speaker 3: Absolutely yeah. And also let's just put a pin in
Speaker 3: the similarities between Titanic and say anything. Maybe that'll come
Speaker 3: back later. I don't know, hmm. Okay. So there's a
Speaker 3: song that's playing in the car while they're having sex.
Speaker 1: Oh, you sing it in your Eyes. I'll do the drums.
Speaker 3: Uh No, number one I don't really know the words.
Speaker 3: And number two I'm a bad singer. Okay, but it's
Speaker 3: in your Eyes by Peter Gabriel. And she's like, listen
Speaker 3: to it. It's a really good song. And he's like, okay,
Speaker 3: I just busted and.
Speaker 1: That and that is always the answer to like why
Speaker 1: are you trembling? I'm like, wow, yeah, you were there.
Speaker 1: Like not to blame women, but like I think you
Speaker 1: know why I'm trembling.
Speaker 3: Uh okay. So Diane comes home and she's like, by
Speaker 3: the way, Dad, I just had said.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, Okay, we need to talk. Okay. I
Speaker 1: know that, Like I've seen this movie praise repeatedly for
Speaker 1: like wow, a positive like father daughter relationship for a
Speaker 1: good chunk of this movie. But I's just like, okay,
Speaker 1: im okay, Caitlyn, I'm gonna ask you a question. When
Speaker 1: you lost your virginity?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: How long was it until your parents' news slash? Did
Speaker 1: they ever know?
Speaker 3: My mom never never found out about the instance of
Speaker 3: me losing my virginity, but she did found out find
Speaker 3: out when I was sexually active when I was in college,
Speaker 3: because she was like, you're getting a lot of UTI's.
Speaker 1: It's a great conversation starter. Go Lriie. I hope she
Speaker 1: didn't even I hope she didn't even say hello.
Speaker 3: She's like, I have a question to ask you. Are
Speaker 3: you sexually active? And I was like, yeah, did you?
Speaker 1: Did you Shaka?
Speaker 3: She was like, Fucky bro high fived me and.
Speaker 1: You chest bumped and then you guys exactly.
Speaker 3: We took like twelve shots of Jamison.
Speaker 1: I told so I was trying to like figure out
Speaker 1: my head, how weird is what happens in this movie
Speaker 1: because I told my mom before I lost my virginity
Speaker 1: that sometime in the near future I would hu but
Speaker 1: I needed help buying a plane ticket, and so she
Speaker 1: I needed to use I needed to use her credit
Speaker 1: card to buy a plane ticket so I could lose
Speaker 1: my virginity, and so she like it was like a hole.
Speaker 1: It was like, you know, an FBI operation for me
Speaker 1: to ultimately get a UTI as you were saying, and
Speaker 1: find out I was allergic to latex. But there it's
Speaker 1: I lived. But but what happens here? I feel like,
Speaker 1: whether it's like before after whatever. In this scene, Diane
Speaker 1: is coming home to her father, who is Fraser's father, yes,
Speaker 1: making her Fraser's sister. Before she has like taken a
Speaker 1: shower after losing her virginity, She's like, Dad, I have
Speaker 1: to tell you something. I fucked John Cusack. And then he,
Speaker 1: like to his credit, is like oh, because how do
Speaker 1: you react to that? He doesn't slust shame her. He
Speaker 1: doesn't say anything. He's just but he also seems to
Speaker 1: find it we doesn't she say anything? He didn't. I
Speaker 1: guess he doesn't, does he? He does not say anything.
Speaker 1: He instead stares at her saying with his eyes anything,
Speaker 1: which is, why are you telling me this before you've
Speaker 1: take in a shower. I'd like, I just feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, be as open with your parents as you're
Speaker 1: comfortable with. But if you've just if you've just fucked
Speaker 1: at any time, yeah, shower before talking to your dad.
Speaker 1: And maybe that's old fashioned of me. No, I think
Speaker 1: you want to walk in the house stinking of come
Speaker 1: But I just I was just I was beside myself
Speaker 1: and then and then that scene resolves by her being like,
Speaker 1: I feel so much better.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because she's like, I can say anything to you dad.
Speaker 1: It is, I mean, operates on my theory that the
Speaker 1: central weird romance in this movie is in fact between
Speaker 1: Rasier's dad and Diane.
Speaker 3: A dad and his daughter. His daughter is daughter.
Speaker 1: I just rewatched Mystic River and so I was like
Speaker 1: mainlining my daughter for like seven hours or however long.
Speaker 1: That movie is just Sean Penn swaling, My.
Speaker 3: God, why didn't you watch that?
Speaker 1: I was homesick, Fair popped it on.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: The point is, yes, if you've just been dicked down
Speaker 3: in the backseat of a car, if you want to
Speaker 3: tell your dad about it, fine, I guess, but take
Speaker 3: a show.
Speaker 1: You gotta hit the showers, and your dad shouldn't be
Speaker 1: like I don't know again, but like I would be
Speaker 1: if I if I was sharing that information with my
Speaker 1: with my one father, I would not want him to
Speaker 1: be like thrilled, I don't know.
Speaker 2: It.
Speaker 1: That scene really is going to stick in my craw
Speaker 1: for a long time to come.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about it for they're in a bit. In
Speaker 3: the meantime, Diane has told her dad that she has
Speaker 3: had sex. Meanwhile, sniffing the air, He's like, oh growth. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: Lloyd's friends find out that he had sex, and his
Speaker 3: friend Corey is like, you have to do something really
Speaker 3: romantic for Diane now, So he writes her a letter,
Speaker 3: pouring his heart out to her.
Speaker 1: Again an incredible moment because Corey reads the letter. It's
Speaker 1: two sentences long. I love Corey. I think is like
Speaker 1: my favorite character in the movie, and we'll talk about her.
Speaker 1: I really adore her. But her function in most scenes
Speaker 1: is to tell Lloyd he is awesome. Yeah, tell him
Speaker 1: he's the most amazing person to ever be born. And
Speaker 1: she reads this bogus letter he's written where it's like, Hi, Diane,
Speaker 1: you are pretty I love you yeah, and loves Lloyd.
Speaker 1: She's like, oh my god, She's like, okay Shakespeare and yeah,
Speaker 1: she's just like her function is to gaslod up when
Speaker 1: he's being you know, kind of just like.
Speaker 3: A guy exactly. Okay. So he sends off this letter,
Speaker 3: but it's not long before Diane leaves for England to
Speaker 3: go to uh school that we don't.
Speaker 1: Leave to city, England to go to school subject.
Speaker 3: And so she's confused about what to do because she
Speaker 3: loves Lloyd, but she decides to break up with him,
Speaker 3: and she gives him a pen as a parting gift.
Speaker 1: She's a stone cold, which is also her dad's idea. Yes,
Speaker 1: the breakup also her dad's idea.
Speaker 3: Here's a little fun little story that relates back to
Speaker 3: the person I lost my virginity with in high school,
Speaker 3: which is like.
Speaker 1: Government name gut No King.
Speaker 3: So I broke up with him at some point and
Speaker 3: you got brave of me, and he was really heartbroken
Speaker 3: about it. And I was so cold because he sent
Speaker 3: me this like essay that he had to write for
Speaker 3: English class and it was about how he was so
Speaker 3: in love with me and he he cheated on me
Speaker 3: back when I believed that monogamy was a thing. Anyway.
Speaker 1: Wait, now give me his government anyway.
Speaker 3: So he sent me this letter and I proofread it,
Speaker 3: made a bunch of like red pen marks, and I'm sent.
Speaker 1: It back.
Speaker 3: Brutal.
Speaker 1: That's incredible. Yeah, did you return it to him?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Yeah, I said, here, we're all of you are
Speaker 3: errors and grammar and spelling.
Speaker 1: That's the coolest thing I've ever heard in my life.
Speaker 1: That's really exciting. Thank you, Thank you very mucham. Yes,
Speaker 1: I got broke. I got the guy. I lost my
Speaker 1: Virginia too, broke up with me because I was taking
Speaker 1: up the time he needed to practice the saxophone. So
Speaker 1: I guess you know, it takes all kinds.
Speaker 3: Yeah, okay. So Diane has broken up with Lloyd. She
Speaker 3: is upset about it. He's devastated. He's driving around in
Speaker 3: the rain, he's trying to make sense of things. He's
Speaker 3: kind of recording a podcast at one point he is,
Speaker 3: and then he's like, well, let's see what some men
Speaker 3: have to say about this. But they give him bad
Speaker 3: advice on how to deal with that.
Speaker 1: Including a jump scared Jeremy Piven, Oh, Jeremy Piven in
Speaker 1: like a fedora, being like women are bitches, and you're like, whoa, okay,
Speaker 1: very scary. Yeah, so he is.
Speaker 3: You know, he's driving around and having feelings. He tries
Speaker 3: to call Diane several times. He's leaving messages, and then
Speaker 3: we get the iconic scene where he goes to her house.
Speaker 3: He stands outside the window with the stereo over his
Speaker 3: head playing in your Eyes, which is the sign Blade
Speaker 3: when they were having Sang and his Avis one hundred
Speaker 3: us room. And then you watch the scene and you're like,
Speaker 3: she doesn't even get out of bed, she just stays
Speaker 3: in bed. He just stands there for a while.
Speaker 1: Cut to inspiring hey militia of creepy teenage boys to be.
Speaker 3: Like, oh, just show up, show up, She'll stay the
Speaker 3: play loud music that's waking up the neighbors.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, so nimbi vibes.
Speaker 3: Then we cut to Diane going to see this IRS
Speaker 3: guy who tells her that they have proof that her
Speaker 3: dad has been stealing money four years from people at
Speaker 3: the nursing home that he runs. So Diane goes home.
Speaker 3: She snoops around her dad's stuff and finds a huge
Speaker 3: stash of cash.
Speaker 1: He thought he was going to fool the Valedictorian mistake
Speaker 1: number one. She also at no point takes off her
Speaker 1: diamond ring, even though it's clear that her diamond ring
Speaker 1: was purchased with dead people money.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So she confronts her dad, being like, you're a liar
Speaker 3: and a thief and he's like, what's the big deal?
Speaker 3: I did this for you.
Speaker 1: It's like, Fraser gets a lot of residuals. We'll make
Speaker 1: up for it. It's fine.
Speaker 3: So she storms out, and then she goes to the
Speaker 3: gym where Lloyd is trying to have a kickboxing career,
Speaker 3: and she's like I want you, I need you, I
Speaker 3: love you, and he's like, okay, cool.
Speaker 1: I really like that scene. It felt like very kind
Speaker 1: of close to authentic of like how weird teenage doomed
Speaker 1: relationships work, where he's like, are you saying this because
Speaker 1: you want me or because you want someone? And then
Speaker 1: he like thinks about it for a second and is like,
Speaker 1: I don't want to know the answer to that question.
Speaker 1: Can we have sex again? And you're like, you know
Speaker 1: that is the referee response.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yes. So then h Frazier's daddy gets sent to jail,
Speaker 3: Lloyd pays him a visit to be like, by the way,
Speaker 3: I'm going to England with your daughter and the thing
Speaker 3: that I want to do for a living is be
Speaker 3: her boyfriend.
Speaker 1: Okay, so you know, let him cook because that's a like,
Speaker 1: that's the idea of someone whose job it is to
Speaker 1: be my boy boyfriend is incredible and there are no
Speaker 1: benefits to it.
Speaker 3: No, you do not get dental.
Speaker 1: No, there's no dental for boyfriend. But I was like,
Speaker 1: all right, cool, good for him.
Speaker 3: Right, And then Diane shows up to the prison yard
Speaker 3: and she gives her dad the pen that he had
Speaker 3: that she had originally given to Lloyd.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because like Lloyd, she's in love with her dad.
Speaker 1: This scene also plays out very romantically and breakup scene. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and Lloyd is like on the sidelines being like nice,
Speaker 1: she broke up with her dad and now we can
Speaker 1: be together.
Speaker 3: And then she and Lloyd go to England. There's a
Speaker 3: scene where they're in the plane. She's a nervous flyer,
Speaker 3: but he's like, don't worry, babe, I'll keep you safe
Speaker 3: ding the end.
Speaker 1: The end and not say anything there.
Speaker 3: Thank Shall we discuss, let's discuss, shall let's let's discuss.
Speaker 3: Should we start with I don't know Diane and Lloyd
Speaker 3: in their relationship.
Speaker 1: Yes, okay, so I okay with Diane. I is interesting
Speaker 1: watching this movie because I feel like the way that
Speaker 1: it's written, because I hadn't seen it, and based on
Speaker 1: all of the marketing, based on like the most famous
Speaker 1: image from the movie and all this stuff, you're led
Speaker 1: to believe that like Lloyd is the you know, undisputed
Speaker 1: protagonist of this movie. But like, I feel like it
Speaker 1: is pretty clearly Diane and the way of like who
Speaker 1: has the arc, who are we spending the most time with,
Speaker 1: whose feelings changed the most over the course of the movie,
Speaker 1: Like Lloyd is pretty like consistent throughout the Like I
Speaker 1: don't think that he I mean, I think he does
Speaker 1: grow and change a little bit. But like Diane's the
Speaker 1: one who's really like going through it the entire movie,
Speaker 1: and she's not, like I think that the you know,
Speaker 1: the most famous images from these movies, like you, she's
Speaker 1: not in it. And it feels like a weird example
Speaker 1: of how it's it's not necessarily a fault of the
Speaker 1: movie itself that Diane is kind of sidelined in the
Speaker 1: way this movie is remembered, but the way that the
Speaker 1: marketing is, and the way that it's publicly remembered doesn't
Speaker 1: include kind of the most impactful character.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, it treats Lloyd as if he's the protagonist,
Speaker 3: and I think I wonder if that has anything to
Speaker 3: do with like John Cussett going on to have a
Speaker 3: more substantial career, the way the way that like many
Speaker 3: male actors are like you get to have a career
Speaker 3: because men are actually written parts in movies and women
Speaker 3: aren't so much, so it's harder for them to become
Speaker 3: like notable actors.
Speaker 1: But like it's frustrating because Diane does have like an interest.
Speaker 1: I think she's an interesting character, and I think it
Speaker 1: is just more what is focused on That feels weird
Speaker 1: because there's a lot of interesting stuff with Diane. I
Speaker 1: feel like she and I guess I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: fully think I know how aware the writing of the
Speaker 1: movie is of this, But it feels like Diane is
Speaker 1: this like character. She's like a like brilliant young woman
Speaker 1: who and the two main men in her life are
Speaker 1: trying to like live their lives through her by their
Speaker 1: own rules, and that is like the main thing that
Speaker 1: she is struggling with throughout the movie. Is like she's
Speaker 1: with her dad. She wants to you know, she loves him,
Speaker 1: she wants to make him happy, she wants to meet
Speaker 1: his expectations, but it doesn't quite match. And then with Lloyd,
Speaker 1: she's repeatedly trying to set boundaries with him. Uh and
Speaker 1: you know, timmy Fair, it does seem like she wants
Speaker 1: to be around him and is doing what she things
Speaker 1: she needs to do, but it's like she's just struggling
Speaker 1: with the expectations of men she cares about for the
Speaker 1: entire movie, which is an interesting premise, but it like
Speaker 1: it just kind of bears out in this weird way.
Speaker 3: Yeah, in a way that I don't find very satisfying. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I as far as like teen romance movies go, because
Speaker 3: the bar is Solow and some of them are very
Speaker 3: predicated on an extremely scary and predatory you know, lie
Speaker 3: or bet or some kind of just like stalker situation.
Speaker 3: This one feels on the less problematic side. Yeah, that's
Speaker 3: saying something because it's still like, well, he's not respecting
Speaker 3: her boundaries a lot of the time, and he keeps
Speaker 3: kind of like being like, well, yeah, you just said
Speaker 3: that you don't want a social life, and that you
Speaker 3: just want to be friends, but what if we kiss
Speaker 3: a bunch and then have sex in the back of
Speaker 3: a car?
Speaker 1: Right? I agree that it was like Lloyd is not
Speaker 1: the most respectful Boundaries character ever, but it also felt
Speaker 1: like he is, Like it at least felt reflective of
Speaker 1: reality enough, and like I remember having teenage interactions like
Speaker 1: that and Diane. I don't know, I just feel like
Speaker 1: Diane kind of gets lost in the shuffle sometimes in
Speaker 1: a way that's frustrating. And then for me, like for
Speaker 1: teen romance, it's really frustrating that Lloyd is not a
Speaker 1: one hundred year old vampire, and so it's already kind
Speaker 1: of like, so, why would I watch this? I don't understand.
Speaker 1: Did that occur to you at any point? He wasn't
Speaker 1: really a member of the Cullen family, I would say, yeah,
Speaker 1: And so it is kind of challenging to get invested
Speaker 1: in that romance.
Speaker 3: So why even set the movie in Washington States?
Speaker 1: Fucking exactly, don't waste my time. If it's in Washington State,
Speaker 1: I'm assuming there is a level of immortality. There's simply
Speaker 1: one of the characters. And I was really disappointed that
Speaker 1: it did seem like they were you know both Mortal Mortal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and so that was that was a bummer, but but yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's I think Diana is like a
Speaker 1: really interesting character, but the yeah, the way she's treated
Speaker 1: by the story is kind of I don't know, like
Speaker 1: it's disappointing. She doesn't have any friends to bounce stuff
Speaker 1: off of. Not that that doesn't happen in high school,
Speaker 1: but I think like for the sake of the movie,
Speaker 1: it would have been I think helpful for the audience
Speaker 1: and good for just developing a character to have her
Speaker 1: have someone outside of these two men in her life. Yeah,
Speaker 1: to get an idea of who she is. It feels
Speaker 1: like Princess. Like I feel like we talk about Princess
Speaker 1: Leiah in the terms in terms of that where it's like,
Speaker 1: here's this really interesting lead character who is a woman,
Speaker 1: but we're only going to give her men to talk to.
Speaker 1: We're not going to give her an interior life outside
Speaker 1: of her really reationship to these men for reasons unclear.
Speaker 3: Right, And then the movie does kind of address the
Speaker 3: fact that she does she hasn't made any friends in
Speaker 3: high school and it's because she sort of like secluded
Speaker 3: herself or she didn't put herself out there, and this
Speaker 3: party was like her first chance to meet people, and
Speaker 3: now she finally feels like she like some people know her.
Speaker 3: But then after she comes to that realization or she
Speaker 3: has kind of like taken herself out of her comfort zone,
Speaker 3: she proceeds to then get to know exactly one person
Speaker 3: and it's a guy who's just extremely persistent at her.
Speaker 1: Right. Well, that was I felt like there was promise,
Speaker 1: and we have exactly because I think that in Lloyd's
Speaker 1: I mean, in spite of the fact that if like
Speaker 1: Lloyd has less of an ARC, we know more people
Speaker 1: in his life and in his circle. We know his sister,
Speaker 1: who is his actual sister, Constance. I think her name
Speaker 1: is played by John Cusack. We know his best friend Corey,
Speaker 1: we know his other friend DC. We know a number
Speaker 1: of people in his life, and he mostly has close
Speaker 1: relationships friendship family wise with women. But yeah, interm and
Speaker 1: we get one scene between Lloyd's best friend Corey and
Speaker 1: Diane that I felt like was really cool and promising
Speaker 1: of like, oh, maybe they will become friends and that
Speaker 1: would be a way to bring her closer to Lloyd
Speaker 1: if you know, they become friends. But The only thing
Speaker 1: that happens in that scene is like, is Corey does
Speaker 1: the function of her character, which is to be like, wow,
Speaker 1: wouldn't you say that Lloyd is like the most epic
Speaker 1: awesome guy in the world. And Diane's like, hmm, you're
Speaker 1: right about that, and then like that's that's the only
Speaker 1: scene we get them together, which sucks because it's like
Speaker 1: it's seeing like two interesting women just pass like ships
Speaker 1: in the night, you know, on to more boring plot
Speaker 1: points and you're like, no, stay talk about your feelings
Speaker 1: on Roe v. Wade, you know, like give me something,
Speaker 1: but they give me nothing.
Speaker 3: They don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's disappointing.
Speaker 3: Yes, so I guess where I land on. It is
Speaker 3: the romance. We've seen worse examples in teen rom coms.
Speaker 3: But like you said, it's just her. It is Diane's story.
Speaker 3: She feels like the protagonist to me, but it's all
Speaker 3: about these men who are just kind of like inserting
Speaker 3: themselves in her life or just like inserting their expectations
Speaker 3: in her life, and she doesn't really challenge them very much,
Speaker 3: and she's just like, yep, all allow it.
Speaker 1: Well, it's not even I would I would say that
Speaker 1: she does challenge it at different points, but she is
Speaker 1: like doesn't successfully push out of it right in a
Speaker 1: way that does. The script doesn't feel fully aware of,
Speaker 1: like it's it's we're made to believe that like this
Speaker 1: ending for Diane is kind of the best case scenario
Speaker 1: when there I feel like are of opportunities for her
Speaker 1: to push back more, make connections with other people, and
Speaker 1: I don't know, I just feel like there were more
Speaker 1: interesting things. And then also watching the relationship, I also
Speaker 1: think the most interesting relationship in the movie also does
Speaker 1: not involve Lloyd. I think the most interesting relationship is
Speaker 1: I know, we've like talked a lot of shit about
Speaker 1: it because he is trying to marry her. But like
Speaker 1: Diane and her father's dynamic is really interesting, and I
Speaker 1: feel like there is like a really I don't know,
Speaker 1: I can't think of a lot of I mean, except
Speaker 1: the entire series of Succession. I can't think of like,
Speaker 1: I mean, there's not a lot of stories about like
Speaker 1: a daughter getting to know like who idolized as a parent,
Speaker 1: having that illusion completely shattered and having to deal with that,
Speaker 1: Like that's a really interesting thing to explore, especially because
Speaker 1: like Diane has really dictated the way that she has
Speaker 1: lived and we know this about her because she says
Speaker 1: it to Lloyd at seven eleven in which incredible detail.
Speaker 1: I'm like, did they get stuff off the rollers? Like?
Speaker 1: When did they get a white claw? Did white claw exist?
Speaker 1: They're all these things right, Yeah, I had a lot
Speaker 1: of questions. They left seven eleven, but they weren't holding
Speaker 1: a delicious snack. That was interesting. Yeah, I went to
Speaker 1: seven eleven the other night and brag, thank you, I
Speaker 1: was on a date. It's like, I need to make
Speaker 1: a stop to get candy corn in a buffalo roller.
Speaker 3: And sorry, that came up involuntarily.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to know what their order was there,
Speaker 1: And that is my biggest problem with the movie.
Speaker 3: But the focus is more on well, what the thing
Speaker 3: you're about to say? But then also the parking lot
Speaker 3: moment where he was just like, watch out, there's glass
Speaker 3: and he just kind of kicks it out of the way.
Speaker 3: She walks around it, and then later in the movie
Speaker 3: she's like, the reason I know that he's such a
Speaker 3: good guy is that he didn't let me step in glass.
Speaker 1: That that was so okay.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: Those scenes are so fun to watch because they are
Speaker 1: like nonsensical and you can just imagine like Cameron Crow
Speaker 1: at his like computer being like, yes, this is so good,
Speaker 1: like this is what women require. He really thought he
Speaker 1: was he was he was doing something there. I just
Speaker 1: and it's like, I mean, truly the old A great
Speaker 1: cinematic example of accepting crumbs is like, Wow, that guy
Speaker 1: didn't want me to step on glass. I could see,
Speaker 1: like I better let him follow me around like just
Speaker 1: a real a real bummer. But yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think ultimate the more interesting relationship, if if this movie
Speaker 1: absolutely has to choose, a relationship between Diane and a
Speaker 1: man in her life is the relationship with her dad,
Speaker 1: because in that same scene, she explains to Lloyd that, like,
Speaker 1: it seems like part of the reason she feels so
Speaker 1: connected to her dad is because she was put in
Speaker 1: this through this horrible custody battle where she had to
Speaker 1: choose which parent to live with. She chose to live
Speaker 1: with her dad, she says, because it was easier. We're
Speaker 1: not given any information, but I don't know. Maybe she
Speaker 1: wanted to be able to see Frasier. She's like, she.
Speaker 3: Was like it felt like the safe choice. We don't
Speaker 3: know exactly what she means by that, but that's that's
Speaker 3: the only information we have.
Speaker 1: But it's like she's very like at a base lettl
Speaker 1: very invested in making her relationship with her dad work,
Speaker 1: which he seems to, you know, want he wants to
Speaker 1: marry her. But like examining that felt more interesting to
Speaker 1: me than this teenage romance. It just but I don't know.
Speaker 1: And then you get a scene, one scene with Diane
Speaker 1: and her mother and that scenms very What did you
Speaker 1: make of that scene? Because to me, that was another
Speaker 1: scene of like Cameron Crow sitting in a room probably
Speaker 1: with his spouse, not asking her what women might talk about.
Speaker 3: This is one of the scenes I listed under the
Speaker 3: does the movie past the Bechdel Test column? Yeah, because
Speaker 3: there are a handful of interactions with women in the movie,
Speaker 3: and one of them is this scene where Diane is
Speaker 3: talking to her mom. Here's how it goes. They are
Speaker 3: talking about her dad being a criminal, and then the
Speaker 3: mom is like, no, I'd rather talk about you. I
Speaker 3: don't even know if you've got a young man in
Speaker 3: your life, and Diane and Cameron Crow's like yeah. Diane says,
Speaker 3: what's more important than what's going on with dad? And
Speaker 3: then her mom replies if we could just talk about boys,
Speaker 3: everything would be so much easier.
Speaker 1: And you're like, well, that's back to back. There's this
Speaker 1: scene is not going anywhere, and then the.
Speaker 3: Mom's new husband, I forget his name, he shows up
Speaker 3: and then oh, I mean uh huh, and then he
Speaker 3: he's like about to show up, so they start talking
Speaker 3: about him, and then he shows up and cut to
Speaker 3: the next scene. So I didn't like it, is what
Speaker 3: I'm saying.
Speaker 1: No, And it's that's especially frustrating because that relationship like
Speaker 1: never comes back, which is bizarre because the reason that
Speaker 1: that scene happens is because Diane is going to her
Speaker 1: mom to say, hey, dad is getting investigated by the
Speaker 1: I r S. If the I r S comes to
Speaker 1: your door, please say something nice about him, like and
Speaker 1: she's and Diane like I and I really like I
Speaker 1: feel for her in that because she's very invested in
Speaker 1: like protecting her father. She very much believes he is innocent,
Speaker 1: and so she's like and that's part of why she
Speaker 1: like originally breaks off the relationship with Lloyd is because
Speaker 1: she's like, I'm kind of like really focused on my
Speaker 1: dad not going to white collar jail right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so it's like she's really spending a lot of
Speaker 1: time trying to protect him, and we know that, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how much the mom would
Speaker 1: know about what's going on, but it seems like it
Speaker 1: would be relevant to Diane's mother that Fraser's dad goes
Speaker 1: to jail. Yeah, but she never comes back and we
Speaker 1: never get any closure on like where that relationship was left,
Speaker 1: or like any which is frustrating if we are viewing
Speaker 1: Diane as like the protagonist of the movie, but it
Speaker 1: just like leaves all of these loose threads in favor
Speaker 1: of you know, watching Lloyd, I don't know, turn in
Speaker 1: a circle. What does he even do?
Speaker 3: Well, he's kicking and he's punching, doing he kicks.
Speaker 1: Well, let's let's talk about Lloyd.
Speaker 3: Sorry, Well, first I spent the past like two minutes
Speaker 3: trying to is it okay? Which Durst is it? Is
Speaker 3: it Robert Robert.
Speaker 1: Not Fred okay? So I'm always happy to answer that question.
Speaker 3: So basically, when when Diane is like, my dad innocent,
Speaker 3: it's like how you respond to Robert first, Okay, I
Speaker 3: was trying to make that joke. It has come and gone.
Speaker 1: It's anyway, if there's no point in arguing Robert Durst
Speaker 1: is innocent anymore, because not only is he dead, he
Speaker 1: was guilty. So just kind of a challenging time for me.
Speaker 3: Sorry, but I found that the relationship with her dad
Speaker 3: and just the dad character in general. His name is James, right,
Speaker 3: Jim James Court, James.
Speaker 1: I love that your last name is Court and then
Speaker 1: he goes to jail. That's that's iconic writing. That's some
Speaker 1: Larry gee Lee level naming of a character. I liked it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I found him to be maybe one of the
Speaker 3: most nuanced characters in the movie because I guess he
Speaker 3: just defies a lot of just stereotypes when it comes
Speaker 3: to like dad characters of a teen girl of that era.
Speaker 3: We already talked about the scene where she comes home
Speaker 3: after having sex for the first time with Lloyd. He
Speaker 3: is like, where were you? You didn't call, but he's like,
Speaker 3: like he's in love with her. He's like, I want
Speaker 3: to make sure you're safe, and then he goes he
Speaker 3: like goes on to just explain, you know, I care
Speaker 3: about your safety. It doesn't matter what you were doing.
Speaker 3: And then she says, like, I was having sex, Dad,
Speaker 3: and he's like, I okay.
Speaker 1: I would just be like, all right, can we talk
Speaker 1: about this like after you like sleep, but they have
Speaker 1: to talk about it now because it's a movie.
Speaker 3: And she's like, I'm just so eager to say anything
Speaker 3: to you. A yay. But I guess, you know, a
Speaker 3: typical dad character in a movie like this would have
Speaker 3: a very like slut shamey response and try to like
Speaker 3: exert all of.
Speaker 1: That either either a slut shamey response or like where
Speaker 1: is he? I'm gonna kill him?
Speaker 3: That's my thune, you know exactly.
Speaker 1: I just watched mister Grimver. That's what he does.
Speaker 3: So he doesn't do that. He's just mostly concerned about
Speaker 3: her safety because she doesn't she didn't call like she
Speaker 3: always calls, right. And then there's a later scene that
Speaker 3: also his behavior surprised me where she is saying that
Speaker 3: she's not sure if she should take this fellowship in
Speaker 3: England after all, and I will say, I guess going
Speaker 3: back to the relationship between her and Lloyd, I was
Speaker 3: because I didn't really remember how this movie pans out,
Speaker 3: and I was worried as I was watching it this
Speaker 3: time that she would be like, never mind, I don't
Speaker 3: need to go to England. I've got my professional boyfriend
Speaker 3: who professionally wants to be my boyfriend and.
Speaker 1: I and as that is not a paying position, I
Speaker 1: will suppose I will have to support him in his
Speaker 1: endeavor to be around.
Speaker 3: So I was really worried that like she was not
Speaker 3: going to take the opportunity, and like pursuer education, she
Speaker 3: does do it. He tags along, which you know, you
Speaker 3: can feel about any which way, but I was happy
Speaker 3: that at least she like went through with her plans. Yeah,
Speaker 3: in any case, So she's like, I don't know if
Speaker 3: I should go to.
Speaker 1: School, college, school, university to study question mark, Oh my god,
Speaker 1: which again is like that's a really easy detail to
Speaker 1: give and we were not given it. And I feel
Speaker 1: like that if it was Lloyd, we would know what
Speaker 1: he was studying and what he was interested in, because
Speaker 1: we know that he wants to be a kickboxer, even
Speaker 1: though that has no relevance to fucking anything. Diane's like,
Speaker 1: you know, ambitions have a lot to do with the movie,
Speaker 1: and we don't know what they actually are, right, Yeah, I.
Speaker 3: Wonder if like Oxford University read it was like originally
Speaker 3: that in the script and then they're like, don't besmircharge.
Speaker 1: Your fucking mouth crow. That would be really funny. That
Speaker 1: would be such a weird, uh weird antagonistic thing to
Speaker 1: do in any case, Okay, I don't like fast times
Speaker 1: at Ridgemont High.
Speaker 3: So she's saying she's not sure if she should go
Speaker 3: to England, and she does kind of it seems like
Speaker 3: she's implying, oh, maybe also one of the reasons I
Speaker 3: don't want to go not only are you under criminal investigation, dad,
Speaker 3: but also I love this guy. And then when he
Speaker 3: finds that out, when when her dad realizes that she
Speaker 3: loves him, he kind of pivots because prior to that
Speaker 3: he was like, oh, he's not good enough for you.
Speaker 3: He's always just kicking and punching, and you're too smart
Speaker 3: for him. And then which is true, to be fair, true,
Speaker 3: But then he like when she says I love him,
Speaker 3: he respects the gravity of the situation, He respects her feelings.
Speaker 3: He doesn't like try to question her feelings. He is like, oh, wow,
Speaker 3: maybe I'm being like really selfish here, Why am I
Speaker 3: fixated on this? Like I owe you an apology, he says.
Speaker 1: But then the one sentence we never hear it's amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but and then a few minutes later he turns
Speaker 3: out to be embezzling money from a very vulnerable group
Speaker 3: of people. So so it's complicated. You know, some of
Speaker 3: history's greatest monsters were pretty decent parents. And Fraser's dad, well,
Speaker 3: Fraser's dad was a great dad, but he was a
Speaker 3: retired Seattle So you know, they're this is a sort
Speaker 3: of a through line. Thank you for your heads for
Speaker 3: I was proud of making that connection as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt like it was a unique father daughter relationship.
Speaker 1: But again, I don't know, I don't know. I feel
Speaker 1: like coding it as romantic was so avoidable, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: not even joking because like down to post production whoever,
Speaker 1: I don't know off the top of my head, who
Speaker 1: can pose the music? But what the fuck were they thinking,
Speaker 1: like when they were like all right, all right, father, father,
Speaker 1: all right, we're gonna need something a little sexy. Why
Speaker 1: like some sort of like longing romanticizing?
Speaker 3: The blocking is often weird, just the writing choice to
Speaker 3: make her I'm sorry the way of your dad's have
Speaker 3: given you a diamond ring.
Speaker 1: No, if your dad is giving you a diamond ring,
Speaker 1: like you have to consider he could have been embezzling
Speaker 1: money from old people. I think, I hope this is
Speaker 1: a wake up call for anyone in this room was
Speaker 1: received a diamond ring from their father. It's weird. It's weird.
Speaker 3: Weird choices were made all around. Let's talk about Lloyd
Speaker 3: really quick, Okay.
Speaker 1: I Lloyd is an interesting character to be because I
Speaker 1: do think that like I don't know, like Lloyd and
Speaker 1: this movie have been through so many rounds of critical appraisal,
Speaker 1: or I think this movie was pretty beloved when it
Speaker 1: came out. I think Lloyd does sort of defy a
Speaker 1: number of common rom com stereotypes with a male lead,
Speaker 1: where like you're saying, there's no bet, there's no central lie,
Speaker 1: but he still is pushy and still you know, push
Speaker 1: past a lot of Diane's boundaries and is rewarded for
Speaker 1: that behavior. And then on the other hand, you have
Speaker 1: What I like about Lloyd is the fact that something
Speaker 1: we I think very rarely see in teen movies, which
Speaker 1: is that he has a close friend who is a
Speaker 1: woman who he is not. Like there's no subtext of like, yeah,
Speaker 1: she's in love with me, or I even in love
Speaker 1: with her, Like Corey is his closest friend. And she's
Speaker 1: an interesting character in her own right, but like there
Speaker 1: is no like it presents the simple truth that men
Speaker 1: and women can be friends. Yeah, in a way that
Speaker 1: is like not you know, like longing coated or that
Speaker 1: there's not this like deep heterosexual you know, physical pain
Speaker 1: that comes with them being around each other. And then
Speaker 1: on top of that that, like when that friendship is
Speaker 1: presented to Diane, she's like, that's it's nice to meet
Speaker 1: your friend versus like meeting that with extreme jealousy orich.
Speaker 1: Just like all these tropes we very ordinarily see where
Speaker 1: it just seems like Lloyd is a male character who
Speaker 1: connects with women easier, which is nice, and that is
Speaker 1: like not presented as a bad thing. And I also
Speaker 1: like how Lloyd is from. Like Lloyd's parents aren't really around.
Speaker 1: They're in the military in Germany, and you're like, well,
Speaker 1: I don't like this sounds like that there.
Speaker 3: Right after the fall of the Berlin.
Speaker 1: Wall, and then their politics are not made clear, but
Speaker 1: they're in the military in Germany in the eighties, and
Speaker 1: uh so they're you know, out there, and so like
Speaker 1: Floyd and his sister there there. You know, Floyd's sister
Speaker 1: is a single mom, uh, there's no judgment passed on that.
Speaker 1: I think my main issue is that they don't let
Speaker 1: her be a character at all. She's just like vaguely
Speaker 1: like shrill coded to do Lloyd. In the first she's like,
Speaker 1: why can't you be an uncle and not a plane mate?
Speaker 1: And he's like, you used to be fun. Yeah, But
Speaker 1: but it was like he has like a I think,
Speaker 1: like kind of like a latch key kid kind of
Speaker 1: upbringing where his parents weren't really around, and I feel
Speaker 1: like those characters are very often portrayed to be maladjusted
Speaker 1: and not people to be around, and I like that
Speaker 1: Lloyd sort of presents that upbringing in a way that
Speaker 1: it's like he's generally a thoughtful person and I don't know,
Speaker 1: like class wise and just upbringing wise, it's like not
Speaker 1: something I was used to seeing. Sure, So I don't
Speaker 1: know Lloyd. Lloyd was hidden miss for me, but I
Speaker 1: do I was rooting for him, especially when he something
Speaker 1: is so vulnerable about whipping a VHS copy of Cocoon,
Speaker 1: where I was like, oh, he's really going for it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he doesn't know what he's doing, but he wants to
Speaker 1: do something.
Speaker 3: And this is after and we have to wrap up
Speaker 3: very soon. But this is after Diane has challenged him
Speaker 3: for his ageist beliefs. Yes, and she's like literally calls
Speaker 3: him out with that exact language. She's like, you're being agist,
Speaker 3: and he says his ass down and then and then
Speaker 3: he was like right, He's like, wow, you're really making
Speaker 3: me reconsider and maybe I shouldn't be agist. And it's
Speaker 3: not clear if he actually is like changing his mind
Speaker 3: about this or if he just wants to bust.
Speaker 1: Right. It's October and busted makes you feel good, Uh, precisely.
Speaker 1: But but I mean, unfortunately, with due respect to men
Speaker 1: in the room, I feel like, you know, it is
Speaker 1: a fake it til you make it situation where it's
Speaker 1: like I will make you repeat my politics back to
Speaker 1: me until you somehow believe it.
Speaker 3: And uh uh huh.
Speaker 1: And you know it's that's how I wear people down, yeah,
Speaker 1: by talking about housing justice until they believe in it.
Speaker 1: And that's how I've weaponized my vagina for good. The
Speaker 1: other thing I like about Lloyd and I know we
Speaker 1: have to move on, is there is a critical scene
Speaker 1: where Lloyd is so he, like you mentioned, he is
Speaker 1: recording a podcast. He's driving around in his car, recording
Speaker 1: his thoughts on a cassette player for Corey, for his friend.
Speaker 1: He's recording a podcast for an audience of one. It
Speaker 1: is like kind of true crimey where he's like, I'm
Speaker 1: in the streets and you're like, oh my god, I
Speaker 1: know people who sound like not know. I've listened to
Speaker 1: podcasts like that that the people are millionaires for saying
Speaker 1: equally fucking nothing. You know, I'm in the streets. It's
Speaker 1: duck out.
Speaker 3: Like he said something like the rain on my car
Speaker 3: is APPTI. We're like, well, brilliant metaphor, sir.
Speaker 1: When you think about it, I am I do him
Speaker 1: christ like go off king. But when he is doing that, yeah,
Speaker 1: like you you alluded to this in the recap. But
Speaker 1: he says like, maybe I should talk to more men.
Speaker 1: Everyone in my life is a woman, and you're like,
Speaker 1: well that's going to be a non starter, but let's
Speaker 1: see what happens and he But the movie bears that
Speaker 1: out where it's like he goes to this group of
Speaker 1: like guys is like high schools with any group of guys,
Speaker 1: Jeremy Piven is there. If you're going to go meet
Speaker 1: up with some guys, he'll be there and he'll be
Speaker 1: wearing a little hat. But the list, I know, we
Speaker 1: were both ready to get down as we were watching
Speaker 1: it together because, uh, you know, he goes to this
Speaker 1: group of men. They're hanging out at a gas station
Speaker 1: talking shit about women, which which is beautiful, beautiful, right.
Speaker 1: One says you can't trust them. They spend your money
Speaker 1: and they tell your friends everything. And I'm like, and
Speaker 1: is that a bad thing there? All you gotta do
Speaker 1: is find a girl that looks just like her nailer
Speaker 1: and then dumper. You know what's the mistake. You should
Speaker 1: have dumped her first. That's Jeremy Piven. Diane Cord is
Speaker 1: a show pony. You need a stallion man. Literally, Jeremy
Speaker 1: Piven objectifying women. We hate to see it. But Lloyd
Speaker 1: does not respond to this by being radicalized by these
Speaker 1: like gas station losers ideas. He instead challenges it and
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, that's interesting that you have all these
Speaker 1: thoughts about women when women aren't hanging out with you
Speaker 1: and you are at a gas station at night, and
Speaker 1: that's awesome. I mean, like that exchange is really cool.
Speaker 1: And then and then he responds and then like after
Speaker 1: realizing that talking to men his age is a non
Speaker 1: starter and that they hate women and don't understand why
Speaker 1: he goes back to his friends who are women and
Speaker 1: ask them for advice, and like, I liked that. I
Speaker 1: thought that was cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I you know, he does blame Corey for
Speaker 3: Diane breaking up with him. Basically, she's like, I hang
Speaker 3: out with too many women and it's your vote, Corey.
Speaker 1: This is your podcast for You'm yelling at you.
Speaker 3: But I do like that the movie recognizes that all
Speaker 3: the advice that the men give him is terrible advice,
Speaker 3: and that yes, that Lloyd openly challenges.
Speaker 1: Them absolutely, And then, uh, because we do have drap
Speaker 1: up Corey, we'll we'll talk more about her. We'll do
Speaker 1: we'll record more about her in a later time. But
Speaker 1: Corey is the fucking coolest character in the movie. Do
Speaker 1: we have any Corey heads in the house. Okay, she's
Speaker 1: the best. I also feel like she's a very like,
Speaker 1: uniquely nineteen eighty nine character where she is Lloyd's best
Speaker 1: friend and she I feel like, I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: the character closest to me in high school is Corey,
Speaker 1: where she has had her heart broken by the same
Speaker 1: loser repeatedly and is writing horrible poetry about it, and
Speaker 1: like that is a very recognizable thing. I think that
Speaker 1: like we'll sort of talk about later on about like
Speaker 1: the way it's presented. But I just I really liked her,
Speaker 1: and I felt like we were given some crumbs on
Speaker 1: how she like on her her personal stuff towards the
Speaker 1: beginning of the movie, where it's like there is this
Speaker 1: one guy who later appears at a gas station being
Speaker 1: a misogynist, so huge loss for her, but like this
Speaker 1: this fucking loser who she's written sixty five songs about,
Speaker 1: and who among us you know that, Like she eventually
Speaker 1: kind of cuts loose because she realizes that like he's
Speaker 1: a loser and a liar, and like I thought that
Speaker 1: was a really interesting start to her care But then
Speaker 1: the remainder of the movie, she mainly shows up to
Speaker 1: tell Lloyd various plot points mm hmmm, and to tell
Speaker 1: him he's cool. Yeah, and that's kind of the most
Speaker 1: we get from her after like the thirty minute mark.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's true, very frustrating.
Speaker 1: Yeah. The last thing I wanted to say is just
Speaker 1: the production of this movie. It is like an interesting
Speaker 1: movie production wise, but I wanted to just quickly shout
Speaker 1: out one of the main producers of this movie, Polly Platt.
Speaker 1: We've got a picture of her here, let's get it.
Speaker 1: This is She's really cool. I would if you haven't
Speaker 1: listened to the season of you must remember this about
Speaker 1: Polly Platt, I would highly highly recommend it. It's so cool.
Speaker 1: Give it up for her. She is. She had a
Speaker 1: fucking incredible life, like she I mean, she was done
Speaker 1: a huge disservice by show business. But this movie came
Speaker 1: out during this sort of second surge in her career
Speaker 1: where she was working with James L. Brooks. She worked
Speaker 1: on this movie, she basically discovered Cameron Crowe and Wes Anderson,
Speaker 1: so you're welcome if those are guys you like. She also,
Speaker 1: iconically for everyone, discovered The Simpsons and handed it off
Speaker 1: to James L. Brooks, So we wouldn't have the Simpsons
Speaker 1: without Polly Platt. She's fucking cool. And she also appears
Speaker 1: in a cameo in this movie, which is the next slide.
Speaker 1: You can see that she is in the graduation scene,
Speaker 1: so there she is. So yay Polly. And we'll link
Speaker 1: to Karina Longworth's season about her when we release this episode.
Speaker 1: But Katelin. Yes, does this movie pass the Bechdel test?
Speaker 3: I think maybe on a small technicality, but I would
Speaker 3: say spiritually no.
Speaker 1: Spiritually no, But it does pass between DC and it's
Speaker 1: not a very impactful exchange. But between DC and Corey
Speaker 1: there is an exchange in the record store where it
Speaker 1: be the large context of the conversation is that Diane
Speaker 1: and Lloyd had sex. Yes, which is, you know, not
Speaker 1: passing the backful test whatsoever.
Speaker 3: P and V.
Speaker 1: It doesn't pass. But Corey's talking over DC, and DC
Speaker 1: is like, you never let me talk about anything. You
Speaker 1: never let me speak. And Corey's like, oh, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: what do you want to say? And DC is like, well,
Speaker 1: I forget. And that was impactful to me. Yes, that
Speaker 1: passes to me. I can relate to that. I've had
Speaker 1: many interactions like that, demanding yeah, demanding a platform and
Speaker 1: then being like, oh, I have nothing to contribute.
Speaker 3: But generally, the few times that women do interact in
Speaker 3: this movie, they are usually talking about Lloyd, they are
Speaker 3: talking about Frasier's dad, They're talking about some other guy.
Speaker 1: It's particularly this is disgusting, Joe, this is it's particularly frustrating.
Speaker 1: In the conversation between Diane and her mom where there
Speaker 1: is potential to talk about most anything, and they aggressively
Speaker 1: only talk about men.
Speaker 3: Right, Or the scene the one interaction between Corey and
Speaker 3: Diane where they talk about Corey's ex boyfriend Joe for
Speaker 3: a while and then Lloyd.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but what about the most important metric to ever exist,
Speaker 1: which is the Bechdel cast nipple scale?
Speaker 3: Yes, a zero to five nipples based on sound. Examining
Speaker 3: the movie through an intersectional feminist lens, I think I'll
Speaker 3: give this movie. I would say two nipples. I think
Speaker 3: someone gasped. Is that what happens?
Speaker 1: When you guys listen to this, They're like, they're like, Oh,
Speaker 1: they're so wrong for that.
Speaker 3: How could they were you expecting me to say higher
Speaker 3: or lower? I made a mistake and this happens.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, No, this happens everything. This is why
Speaker 1: like live shows are nuclear for us, because if I
Speaker 1: look at you the wrong way, you're like, no.
Speaker 3: God, no, Well here's my reasoning. Yeah, sounds familiar, And
Speaker 3: I'm judging this on nineteen eighty nine standards, and it's
Speaker 3: like slightly less problematic than teen rom coms that came
Speaker 3: out ten years later.
Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure, there's that the.
Speaker 3: Father daughter relationship, while it is rife with a weird,
Speaker 3: possibly romantic tension. I do I know two is wrong.
Speaker 3: I'll go down to one and a half.
Speaker 1: Stop contributing. We'll never leave. Yeah, we got no, it
Speaker 1: should be one point like six four.
Speaker 3: Just because we have to wrap up. I will simply
Speaker 3: say one and a half nipples, and I give one
Speaker 3: to what's her name Antigony.
Speaker 1: What? Oh my oh wait, I get it, I.
Speaker 3: Got it, sorry, Iony.
Speaker 1: Antagony. Okay, like this is.
Speaker 3: We gotta go, we gotta go. Mm hmmm, so Iony Sky.
Speaker 3: And then my half nipple goes to Lily Taylor, who
Speaker 3: plays Corey An Tikeny.
Speaker 1: I can't. I'm gonna give this. Yeah, I'll give it.
Speaker 1: I'll give it, like, I don't know, one and a half,
Speaker 1: maybe even a little one point two five something like that.
Speaker 1: I think that. Yeah, Like, there are things that this
Speaker 1: movie is I need to stop looking scared.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: There are there are ways that this movie is avoiding
Speaker 1: a lot of troopes that we see in the same
Speaker 1: era and for decades after. But it is still doing
Speaker 1: you know, the pushy thing. It's still doing that, giving
Speaker 1: us an interesting central woman who is not allowed to
Speaker 1: know other women or care about other women. And I
Speaker 1: truly I do think that like the writing of the
Speaker 1: father daughter relationship being so bizarrely romantic, is just a
Speaker 1: demonstration that the writer does not know how to write
Speaker 1: a healthy relationship between men and women, and I find
Speaker 1: that weird. It's also I mean, I mean, it's nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty nine, so but it's like it's it's not an
Speaker 1: inclusive movie whatsoever. It's very much like a movie in
Speaker 1: the white middle class in Seattle. There's no you know,
Speaker 1: attempted inclusion in any way, shape or for him. It's just,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a really white hetero movie. And
Speaker 1: I'm going to give it. I guess I'll give it
Speaker 1: one point two five and I'm giving them giving it
Speaker 1: all to Antagony Beautiful.
Speaker 3: Well that's our show.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you for coming.
Speaker 3: Oh okay, that was the show. Thank you again to
Speaker 3: Curious Comedy Theater, to Stacy who runs the venue, to
Speaker 3: all the staff there, and to the All Jane Comedy Festival,
Speaker 3: which this was the final All Jane Comedy Festival. However,
Speaker 3: it was something that I was aware of since I
Speaker 3: started comedy as just one of the few festival spaces
Speaker 3: that was reserved specifically for women and fems. It was
Speaker 3: very welcoming and cool, and it felt it was an
Speaker 3: honor to do the festival and it's a testament to stacy.
Speaker 3: So indeed, you can't go now, but you really missed out.
Speaker 3: It was cool. You can't go to the festival, but
Speaker 3: you can still go to Curious Comedy Theater, So check
Speaker 3: them out if you're ever in Portland or if you
Speaker 3: live in or nearby. And also just thanks to everyone
Speaker 3: who came out to the show, who watched the live stream,
Speaker 3: and then once again you can grab on demand tickets.
Speaker 3: You'll see some of that extra stuff that we cut
Speaker 3: out of the audio only episode.
Speaker 1: I think some of our best fits.
Speaker 3: Yeah, some really good stuff.
Speaker 1: One of our best on stage bits, you'll want to
Speaker 1: see it.
Speaker 3: A few things that we didn't get to in the
Speaker 3: live show really quickly. I would be remiss not to
Speaker 3: mention the guidance counselor showing up to the high school party.
Speaker 1: Yes, why a trope we still have not gotten rid
Speaker 1: of today. As recently as Books Smart, we still had
Speaker 1: teachers showing up to the party uncritically. It is so
Speaker 1: fucking bizarre. And also, I mean, to that point not
Speaker 1: really fun live show talk, but I feel like really
Speaker 1: encourages an unhealthy relationship between teachers and students. That kid,
Speaker 1: you know, sort of normalized grooming tactics. So yeah, I
Speaker 1: don't know the teacher at my high school that went
Speaker 1: to parties was a groomer.
Speaker 3: Yikes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, teachers don't go to student parties if they're regular.
Speaker 3: Yes, And then we touched on this in the episode,
Speaker 3: but I feel like it might be worth just saying
Speaker 3: a little further. The gals in the movie, Uh, you know,
Speaker 3: We've got Corey played by Lily Taylor. She's Lloyd's best friend,
Speaker 3: mostly just characterized by being obsessed with Lloyd and also
Speaker 3: being obsessed with the guy who broke her heart. She
Speaker 3: plays all those songs that she's written on the guitar
Speaker 3: about him.
Speaker 1: And I also, I mean I think that, yeah, speaking
Speaker 1: to Corey's character, I think that a lot of people,
Speaker 1: I mean, at least I was seeing just like what's
Speaker 1: been written about this movie and what our audience said
Speaker 1: after the episode was that a lot of people saw
Speaker 1: themselves in Corey. And also like to the point where
Speaker 1: it's like we would have even more people would have
Speaker 1: seen themselves in Corey if she had been given a
Speaker 1: proper arc, because I love like we were talked like
Speaker 1: I think we talked about during the show, like it
Speaker 1: is cool that she and Lloyd have a truly platonic
Speaker 1: friendship between a man and a woman, something we never
Speaker 1: ever ever get to see without it being like will
Speaker 1: they or won't they? It never is like she I mean,
Speaker 1: it is an issue that her defining character trait is
Speaker 1: that she thinks Lloyd is a great guy. But I
Speaker 1: do think it's cool that they both really like and
Speaker 1: respect each other and it's a friendship and it like
Speaker 1: and it's not presented as a threat or a will
Speaker 1: there won't they? Or something that you know, even today
Speaker 1: is still a pretty rare dynamic to see in movies.
Speaker 1: But I think that, like again, we just have the
Speaker 1: case with Corey because I like Corey's character a lot,
Speaker 1: but we only see her really in spite of the
Speaker 1: fact that if like we see her mostly talking to women,
Speaker 1: she exists mostly in relations to men. Because I have
Speaker 1: no issue with like writing torrid shitty poetry about a
Speaker 1: horrible relationship, like you know, most people have done it
Speaker 1: at some point. Sure, sure, but for that to be
Speaker 1: like the only thing we get to know about her,
Speaker 1: when it would it would have been so easy to
Speaker 1: build out a friendship between her and Diana, between you
Speaker 1: know her and and DC or like you know people
Speaker 1: we see her with, but we don't know what the
Speaker 1: friendship dynamic is other than hanging out all day and
Speaker 1: being like Lloyd is slaying so hard today yet again?
Speaker 3: Uh DC, a character who we know even less about,
Speaker 3: Oh for sure. So that was not great and I
Speaker 3: just wanted to take a little bit more time than
Speaker 3: we had in the live show to examine that. But yeah,
Speaker 3: that's our episodiode on say anything.
Speaker 1: And I think you'll agree we said whatever in that
Speaker 1: is it?
Speaker 3: We kind of said anything, but we also said everything.
Speaker 1: Wow. Whoa, Well goodbye? No wait, you can follow us online.
Speaker 1: It's on Instagram, ed, still Twitter sometimes at Bechdel Cast.
Speaker 1: You can sign up for our Patreon aka Matreon at
Speaker 1: patreon dot com slash Bechtel Cast. Five dollars a month
Speaker 1: gets you two bonus episodes a month. Yay, including access
Speaker 1: to one hundred and fifty episodes of backlog. Of backlog
Speaker 1: makes it sound like backwash, which makes it sound not good,
Speaker 1: it's quite good. All bad.
Speaker 3: And then also check out our link tree for tickets
Speaker 3: for the on demand video version of this Say Anything
Speaker 3: live show, as well as our upcoming live shows that
Speaker 3: were doing kinda anywhere everywhere, Say any say anywhere.
Speaker 1: Say anything everywhere, all at once.
Speaker 3: That is that is so true.
Speaker 1: The people needed to hear my message. All right, Well, hey,
Speaker 1: we will talk to you next week. We'll see you
Speaker 1: next week.
Speaker 3: We'll see anything later, you later.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It didn't work, Free Palestine, Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast
Speaker 3: is a production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Derante and
Speaker 3: Jamie Loftis, produced by Sophie Lichterman, edited by Mola Board.
Speaker 3: Our theme song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals
Speaker 3: by Catherine Vosskresenski. Our logo in merch is designed by
Speaker 3: Jamie Loftis and a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For
Speaker 3: more information about the podcast, please visit link tree slash
Speaker 3: Bechtel Cast