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Speaker 2: Good morning, everybody, Welcome to Breaking Points.
Speaker 3: Emily, great to see you, my friend.
Speaker 4: It's great to be here.
Speaker 5: I was really focused on my Twitter feed when we started,
Speaker 5: so that's why I was hunched.
Speaker 2: Over focus getting the latest that we can bring you
Speaker 2: all of the breaking news updates. Sager is actually recording
Speaker 2: with Andrew Schultz for The Flagrant podcast, so that's why
Speaker 2: he is out today. Bunch of announcements to get to Okay, tomorrow,
Speaker 2: we are not having our normal show. Instead, we are
Speaker 2: doing a live stream for the State of the Union.
Speaker 2: In which I cannot believe is actually tomorrow.
Speaker 4: It's not technically the State of the.
Speaker 2: Way, it's the Joint Address to Congress whatever, but it's
Speaker 2: the State of the Union. And I yeah, I've been
Speaker 2: kind of denial about it, like it just really there's
Speaker 2: been so much going on, a snuck up on me.
Speaker 4: It's crazy. But we'll all be here, gang, will all be.
Speaker 2: Here, That is right, we will all be here eight
Speaker 2: pm Eastern. We'll start the live stream. I think the
Speaker 2: President is supposed to speak around nine, so we'll talk
Speaker 2: about whatever's going on beforehand, preview the speech, listen to
Speaker 2: the speech, react on the other end as we normally do.
Speaker 3: In addition, another big personal announcement.
Speaker 2: Happy birthday to my baby girl, Ella, who is seventeen.
Speaker 4: Amazing.
Speaker 2: I am in total, complete denial about this as well.
Speaker 5: That you have a seventeen year old and look those
Speaker 5: amazing stop Chris stops.
Speaker 4: Trust me.
Speaker 2: I feel every day and then some of my age,
Speaker 2: but I am. Yeah, she's beautiful, amazing, so proud of her,
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's an incredible thing. And one last thing
Speaker 2: before we jump into the news, Congratulations to the the
Speaker 2: filmmakers behind No Other Land who won the Oscar for
Speaker 2: Best Documentary last night. Documentary by a Israeli and a
Speaker 2: Palestinian about life in the occupied West Bank. Incredible speech
Speaker 2: that they gave, talking about, you know, the need for
Speaker 2: peace and to co exist and calling for effectively a
Speaker 2: one state solution with no supremacy to crying ethnic cleansing.
Speaker 2: You know, huge applause that the oscars over this, and
Speaker 2: the crazy thing about it is okay. This is now
Speaker 2: an Oscar Award winning documentary. Could not find a US
Speaker 2: distributor because this was too controversial.
Speaker 4: Quote unlook, I wonder what will happen now?
Speaker 3: Actually, yeah, you think they'll get picked up.
Speaker 4: It's possible. I mean it's kind of late, but it's possible.
Speaker 5: I mean, people sends, there's money to be made if
Speaker 5: anyone's curious about the film where.
Speaker 2: People are maybe capitalism will prevail here, that's right, and
Speaker 2: interested the greater, But all of your hopes in capital
Speaker 2: I don't know what else we have to put our
Speaker 2: hopes in at this point.
Speaker 3: All right, lots of news to get to.
Speaker 2: Latest falling from Ukraine, protests all over about various things,
Speaker 2: including against JD Vans on his ski trip. Elon is
Speaker 2: attacking social securities a Ponzi scheme. On the Joe Rogan podcast,
Speaker 2: Trump is announcing a digital asset reserve that is just
Speaker 2: a way to funnel taxpayer dollars to crypto billionaires. One
Speaker 2: of the most disgusting things I've truly ever seen. Dums
Speaker 2: have a brilliant new plan to fight back, which entails
Speaker 2: going even harder in the direction of big donors and
Speaker 2: sidelining grassroots donors. Altogether unbelievable that this is what's being proposed.
Speaker 2: Bill Burr is fighting with Benjapiro. That's an interesting one
Speaker 2: over his comments regarding a Luigi Mangioni and Israel is
Speaker 2: quitting the ceasefire deal and announcing a new blockade and
Speaker 2: siege of Gaza, obvious collective punishment and war crime with
Speaker 2: the full backing of the United States government.
Speaker 3: Jeremy Scahill is going to join us to break all
Speaker 3: of that down.
Speaker 4: Ye're excited to have Jeremy here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh, he's incredible and drop site.
Speaker 2: I said this last week, it is incredible how quickly.
Speaker 3: They became essential.
Speaker 2: Seriously, you know, I really rely on them for their
Speaker 2: FORID affairs reporting, in particular specific with regard to Israel
Speaker 2: and Gaza. But they have done such an incredible job
Speaker 2: standing that on what up.
Speaker 5: And of course nonither of us are surprised because I
Speaker 5: know Ryan, Yes, they're so talented.
Speaker 2: Exactly right, all right, So let's get into the latest
Speaker 2: with regard to Ukraine. I'm sure you guys have all
Speaker 2: seen at this point the dust up in the Oval
Speaker 2: Office between JD. Vans and Trump attacking Vladimir Zelenski, of course.
Speaker 3: The president of Ukraine. Let's go ahead and take a
Speaker 3: listen to.
Speaker 2: We had a bunch of politicians on the Sunday Show,
Speaker 2: from Marco Rubio to Senator Chris Murphy, who were reacting to.
Speaker 3: This chain of events. Let's go ahead and listen to.
Speaker 4: That, sir. From President Zelenski.
Speaker 2: He said he does not think that he owes President
Speaker 2: Trump an apology for what happened inside the Oval Office today.
Speaker 4: Do you feel otherwise? I do.
Speaker 6: I do, because you guys don't see. You guys only
Speaker 6: saw the end. You saw what happened today. You don't
Speaker 6: see all the things that led up to this. So
Speaker 6: let me explain. The President's been very clear, he campaigned
Speaker 6: on this. He thinks this war should have never started.
Speaker 6: He believes and I agreed that had he been president,
Speaker 6: and never would have happened. Now here we are, he's
Speaker 6: trying to bring an end of this conflict. We've explained
Speaker 6: very clearly what our plan is here, which is we
Speaker 6: want to get the Russians to a negotiating table. We
Speaker 6: want to explore whether peace is possible.
Speaker 4: They understand this.
Speaker 6: They also understand that this agreement that was supposed to
Speaker 6: be signed today was supposed to be an agreement that
Speaker 6: binds America economically to Ukraine, which to me, as I've explained,
Speaker 6: and I think the President alluded to today, is a
Speaker 6: security guarantee in its own way. Because we're involved, it's
Speaker 6: now us, it's our interests. That was all explained, that
Speaker 6: was all understood, and nonetheless, for the last ten days
Speaker 6: and every engagement we've had with the Ukrainians, there's been
Speaker 6: complications in getting that point across, including the public statements
Speaker 6: that President Zelensky has made. But they insisted on coming
Speaker 6: to d C. This agreement could have been signed five
Speaker 6: days ago, but they insisted on coming to Washington, and
Speaker 6: there was a very and should have been a very
Speaker 6: clear understanding, don't come here and create a such scenario
Speaker 6: where you're going to start lecturing us about how diplomacy
Speaker 6: isn't going to work as President Zelensky took it in
Speaker 6: that direction, and it ended in a predictable outcome as
Speaker 6: a result. It's unfortunate that wasn't supposed to be this way,
Speaker 6: but that's the path he chose, and I think frankly
Speaker 6: sends his country backwards in regards to achieving peace, which
Speaker 6: is what President Trump wants.
Speaker 3: At the end of the day, is for this war
Speaker 3: to end.
Speaker 7: The person who walked away from the table yesterday was
Speaker 7: President Zelensky. I mean, look, I've been involved in a
Speaker 7: lot of bilateral meetings like this with heads of state
Speaker 7: in dignitaries. There's a certain protocol to these events. But
Speaker 7: for him to act as he did was rather shocking
Speaker 7: to everyone. I mean, President Zelensky, instead of showing gratitude,
Speaker 7: he interrupted and berated his hosts at a very perilous
Speaker 7: time for his country. He should have been anxious, I
Speaker 7: think to enter into this agreement. Think of it, the
Speaker 7: mental rights agreement would be a win win for both countries.
Speaker 7: It would give us an economic interest there, and everyone
Speaker 7: around the world knows that America will always defend our
Speaker 7: interest in our people.
Speaker 8: The challenge is now we're at a stalemate. This is
Speaker 8: a World War one like trench warfare, and it is
Speaker 8: best to be able to get to at least a pause.
Speaker 8: And what I hear President Trump saying over and over
Speaker 8: again is we need to get to a stop and fighting,
Speaker 8: find some resolution. I understand Zelensky is rightfully concerned that
Speaker 8: Putin has violated every single agreement he's ever signed and
Speaker 8: that he can't be trusted. He's looking for some kind
Speaker 8: of security guarantees, which the French in the UK are
Speaker 8: saying they want to put troops in. But we need
Speaker 8: to get these two folks at the table, get to
Speaker 8: some kind of resolution to something it may look like
Speaker 8: North and South Korea for a long time, and have
Speaker 8: a line where people are looking at each other, but
Speaker 8: not an active war.
Speaker 9: Now, the White House has become an arm of the Kremlin.
Speaker 9: Every single day you hear from the National Security Advisor,
Speaker 9: from the President of United States, from his entire national
Speaker 9: security team, Kremlin talking points. The last week, the White
Speaker 9: House has been pretending as if Ukraine started this war.
Speaker 9: That's essentially saying that Poland invaded Germany at the beginning
Speaker 9: of World War two, There are still facts in this world,
Speaker 9: and the fact is this Vladimir Putin is a brutal dictator.
Speaker 9: Russia started this war, and the entire pretext for that
Speaker 9: meeting yesterday was an attempt to rewrite history in order
Speaker 9: to sign a deal with Putin that hands putin Ukraine.
Speaker 9: That is disastrous for US national security. That means that
Speaker 9: China will be on the march, Putin may not stop,
Speaker 9: America may be at war with a nuclear power.
Speaker 2: So there you go a little sampling of the political reaction.
Speaker 2: You know, obviously I have a lot of thoughts on this,
Speaker 2: which I'll go ahead and offer a few of them,
Speaker 2: since we haven't had a chance to react yet. I mean,
Speaker 2: it won't surprise you that none of the Democrat or
Speaker 2: Republican views there really represent my view. You know, I
Speaker 2: do actually think that this was a sort of a
Speaker 2: planned ambush of Zelenski, because I think it's preposterous to
Speaker 2: imagine that Jade Vance would be out there freelancing on
Speaker 2: his own, like I don't think he does anything without
Speaker 2: Donald Trump giving him the nudge in the go ahead.
Speaker 2: But whether or not you think this was like a
Speaker 2: planned ambush, it was definitely a show in that it
Speaker 2: is not reflective of the reality, which is that Ukraine
Speaker 2: and US in this war have basically been the same entity. Right,
Speaker 2: the US has pushed Ukraine to continue this war. We
Speaker 2: have used Ukraine prior to this war as our own
Speaker 2: geopolitical plaything. So that's why when Vance and Trump are insists, oh,
Speaker 2: you have to thank us, and you need to apologize,
Speaker 2: like thank us for what for continuing to drag you
Speaker 2: through years of this war at massive cost of lives
Speaker 2: and death and destruction in the country of Ukraine. And
Speaker 2: this is not to let Zelenski off the hook, who
Speaker 2: no one should be, you know, hero worshiping this guy
Speaker 2: like Actually, the things that JD. Van said about the
Speaker 2: conscription and pulling guys off like that is true. But
Speaker 2: we're the superpower in this situation. We wanted to use
Speaker 2: Ukraine to push back against Russia, and we failed, and
Speaker 2: now we are left trying to figure out what to
Speaker 2: do next and trying to pick up the pieces. What
Speaker 2: the Trump administration wants to do is based economic colonization.
Speaker 2: They want this extractive mineral rights deal, which by the way,
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that you are going to benefit from whatever.
Speaker 3: Extraction is occurring here.
Speaker 2: It's Trump's billionaire buddies who would get these deals, who
Speaker 2: would profit from exploiting this vassal state and effective colony
Speaker 2: of the United States of America. But it would be
Speaker 2: US lives that would be on the line to defend
Speaker 2: those economic interests. That's the deal that they're trying to
Speaker 2: put in place. And by the way, Emily, it wouldn't
Speaker 2: surprise me like this was you know, this was a
Speaker 2: big blow up, And I don't want to say that
Speaker 2: like it's not going to have an impact. It might,
Speaker 2: but it's also very possible it doesn't at all that
Speaker 2: they continue to go forward with this economic colonization deal
Speaker 2: for Trump and his buddies to cash in.
Speaker 3: Because, as we're going to talk to.
Speaker 2: About the like Crypto reserve bullshit, the core ideological project
Speaker 2: of the Trump administration at this point just seems to
Speaker 2: be theft elon, stealing contracts and just like plundering the
Speaker 2: government at will, going around the world saying we want
Speaker 2: Greenland's minerals, we want the Panama Canal back, we want Canada,
Speaker 2: we want Gaza, we want the Ukrainian minerals deal. The
Speaker 2: crypto I mean, that thing is just insane, just like
Speaker 2: funneling taxpayer dollars in so that a bunch of crypto
Speaker 2: billionaires can sell their bag and dump this trash like
Speaker 2: worthless thing on the American public. That is the core
Speaker 2: ethos of the Trump administration. And so it would not
Speaker 2: surprise me at all if they continue.
Speaker 3: Forward with this. It's not even just rare earth minerals.
Speaker 2: It's like fifty percent of the entire country that we're pushing,
Speaker 2: you know, this deal for. So that's kind of my
Speaker 2: overall reaction here to what happened. But it does drive
Speaker 2: me sort of insane this and sists, oh, the Ukrainians
Speaker 2: need to apologize, and Selensky was out of line, et cetera,
Speaker 2: et cetera, like we are so much of the uh,
Speaker 2: we are so much to blame for the way this
Speaker 2: is all unfolded, and not just the Biden administration, by
Speaker 2: the way, where they do have a lot of blame
Speaker 2: on their shoulders, in particular for blocking that those original
Speaker 2: negotiations that had a shot at securing some sort of
Speaker 2: a piece here early on. But Trump, in this dialogue
Speaker 2: he brags about how he was shipping the javelins to Ukraine.
Speaker 2: He was part of this belligerent posture that precipitates this war,
Speaker 2: and Russia is responsible for their own actions. They should
Speaker 2: not have invaded. It was an illegal invasion. They have
Speaker 2: their own imperial project that they are engaged in. But
Speaker 2: let's not ignore the role that the US has played
Speaker 2: in meddling in Ukrainian politics with a coupdeta, with expansion
Speaker 2: of NATO, with continuing this belligerent posture that helps to
Speaker 2: create the conditions that precipitate this war, and to just
Speaker 2: erase all of that and pretend like none of that happened.
Speaker 2: And Trump himself has is not to blame, and it's
Speaker 2: all Zelenski's fault, and he's the real aggressor here, and
Speaker 2: he needs to think US. I think is so disgusting
Speaker 2: and utterly preposterous.
Speaker 5: So Zelensky wants everything that you just outlined, which is
Speaker 5: like the point you made about how American boots would
Speaker 5: essentially have to be on the ground security guarantee with
Speaker 5: the quote economic colonization. Zelensky wants that that's the entire
Speaker 5: dust up over this deal.
Speaker 4: We played Chris Murphy just there.
Speaker 5: Chris Murphy before Zolensky went into that meeting, was bragging
Speaker 5: about how Democratic senators had just met with him and
Speaker 5: encouraged him not to sign what he's like a false
Speaker 5: security deal of something that Chris Murphy tweeted, because they
Speaker 5: Zolensky doesn't believe that the quote economic colonization is enough.
Speaker 5: He thinks that the United States needs to have like
Speaker 5: an actual security guarantee otherwise Putin will continue to what's
Speaker 5: the word that often gets used, steamroll will keep like
Speaker 5: creeping further and further into Ukraine. So the option then
Speaker 5: for US is either to have like actual boots on
Speaker 5: the ground security guarantee or some half measure or totally.
Speaker 4: Given to Putin.
Speaker 5: And the options are insane, Like it's just a complete mess.
Speaker 5: And it's a mess because of the tact that Zelenski
Speaker 5: and his supporters had wanted David from. For example, these
Speaker 5: types of guys have wanted over and over and over
Speaker 5: again for years. So, I mean, I think the Zolensk
Speaker 5: he must apologize stuff is a little precious from like
Speaker 5: a moral standpoint, But from a pragmatic standpoint, what he
Speaker 5: just did was prolonged likely. I mean, I think the
Speaker 5: deal probably will still go through, but he just prolonged
Speaker 5: the suffering and the war.
Speaker 4: It's pretty time. This is Zelenski. This is a two.
Speaker 5: This is him responding. He went on Brett Bear's show
Speaker 5: right after. I mean, this is a couple hours after
Speaker 5: he canceled the planned speech. I think it was at
Speaker 5: the Hudson Institute, and then went straight to the Fox
Speaker 5: News studio, went through with the Bear interview. And this
Speaker 5: is a clip of Zelenski from that.
Speaker 4: So I'm not hearing from you, mister president.
Speaker 10: Thought that you owe the president and apology.
Speaker 11: Now I respect President and I respect to American people, and.
Speaker 4: If I don't know if.
Speaker 11: I think that we have to be very open and
Speaker 11: very honest, and I'm not sure that we did something bet.
Speaker 11: I think maybe sometimes some things we have to discuss
Speaker 11: out of out of media, with all respect to democracy
Speaker 11: and to a free media, but there are things that
Speaker 11: where we have to understand the position of Ukraine and Ukrainians,
Speaker 11: and I think that is the most important thing.
Speaker 5: So one hundred billion dollars into the war, I just
Speaker 5: don't think that lands especially well with the American people.
Speaker 5: And I'm not saying Crystal that he needs to get
Speaker 5: on his knees and apologize, though I think pragmatically, if
Speaker 5: he wanted that deal to go through, he probably would.
Speaker 5: That's like, you know, one hundred billion dollars to the
Speaker 5: American people. It's like multiple times the annual NASA budget.
Speaker 5: You know, it's multiple times. It's at this point, it's
Speaker 5: over the annual budget of the State of Virginia.
Speaker 4: Like, well, it's a lot of money.
Speaker 5: It's I get that it's a small percentage of everything
Speaker 5: that we spend in a given year. But in order
Speaker 5: to create a political incentive structure, permission structure for politicians
Speaker 5: to continue going along with it, And I guess I
Speaker 5: see what people are saying about the apology, but it
Speaker 5: doesn't I don't think we need to be precious about
Speaker 5: it morally from a pragmatic standpoint.
Speaker 4: He immediately started tweeting, We're.
Speaker 5: So thankful for America, We're so thankful for the cooperation
Speaker 5: of the United States, et ceterat.
Speaker 2: I mean, listen, again, I do think this was a
Speaker 2: setup because if you watch the video, like the thing
Speaker 2: he said was not everyone's oh he was braiding them
Speaker 2: and lecturing. He just said, listen, guys, like Putin is
Speaker 2: not really a person that like, if you look at
Speaker 2: the historical track record, This isn't someone you can just
Speaker 2: take their word for true, absolutely true.
Speaker 3: And then JD.
Speaker 2: Vance jumps in, you have never said thank you, and
Speaker 2: you take people on.
Speaker 3: Propaganda tours, et cetera, et cetera. I think it was
Speaker 3: a show.
Speaker 2: I think it was a show for domestic consumption because
Speaker 2: they know the bass has been trained to like.
Speaker 3: Have this conflict completely.
Speaker 2: Sort of reversed in their head where Ukraine are the
Speaker 2: great evil and the great bad guys, and so he
Speaker 2: knew it would play well with his bass and that
Speaker 2: he would look like a tough guy. And then that
Speaker 2: gives Trump room to sort of do whatever it is
Speaker 2: that he ultimately wants to do and strike whatever deal
Speaker 2: that he wants to and not face blowback from his base.
Speaker 2: That's what I really think was going on there. So
Speaker 2: this insistence, oh he needs to apologize, Oh he needs
Speaker 2: to thank us, I also just have to say on
Speaker 2: like really zooming out of what you think about this
Speaker 2: conflict and these players and how this should all go
Speaker 2: down and what the geopolitics are, etc. I think there
Speaker 2: was a really visceral human reaction of disgust to the
Speaker 2: way that these two very powerful individuals were badgering and
Speaker 2: bullying someone who's there who speaks English as a second language,
Speaker 2: who you know, is totally unable to sort of be
Speaker 2: able to compete in this debate because of the way
Speaker 2: that that is stacked against the cards are stacked against him.
Speaker 3: In that situation where we have.
Speaker 2: Two people very powerful brating someone who is, you know,
Speaker 2: just trying to keep up with the language issue, I
Speaker 2: think there was like a visceral I mean, it's been
Speaker 2: interesting to see how vocipherus the response has been online,
Speaker 2: and I think there was just like a visceral factor
Speaker 2: to the way all of that went down. The other
Speaker 2: piece of this that could be consequential is how the
Speaker 2: Europeans react. Here you had Keir Starmer, who seems to
Speaker 2: be trying to take the lead to say, all right, well,
Speaker 2: clearly we cannot rely on the US for anything, which
Speaker 2: I think actually that part is good that they're realizing Listen,
Speaker 2: these people are really not our allies at this point.
Speaker 2: We can't count on them whatsoever for a single thing.
Speaker 2: So he's trying to take the lead. He was on
Speaker 2: the BBC talking about how he's now talking to France
Speaker 2: and some others to try to work on some sort
Speaker 2: of a peace plan that they could present.
Speaker 3: Let's take a listen to how that went.
Speaker 12: We had quite a long time with Presidence Lenski, then
Speaker 12: Macrole and President Trump on the phone. We've now agreed
Speaker 12: that the United Kingdom, along with France and possibly one
Speaker 12: or two others, will work with Ukraine on a plan
Speaker 12: to stop the fighting, and then we'll discuss that plan
Speaker 12: with the United States in those caols on Friday night,
Speaker 12: through the meeting yesterday, into the Caols again last night.
Speaker 12: I think we've got a step in the right direction because,
Speaker 12: as I said, nobody wants to see what happened on Friday,
Speaker 12: but it's really important that we keep past central focus,
Speaker 12: which is lasting piece in Ukraine. Nobody wants any more bloodshed.
Speaker 2: So we'll see what comes of that. There were all
Speaker 2: kinds of European leaders that were tweeting out their support
Speaker 2: of Zelenski in the wake of all of these events,
Speaker 2: and put the next piece up on the screen. You know,
Speaker 2: I really sort of think that the tension here within
Speaker 2: the Trump administration comes down to whether they want to
Speaker 2: just go pure like you know, naked exploitation, as they
Speaker 2: have in so many other arenas. As I was pointing
Speaker 2: out before with the mineral steel or whether they want
Speaker 2: to align with the you know, right wing authoritarian regime
Speaker 2: of Russia which has been is the other like ideological
Speaker 2: project of the Trump administration is to align the country
Speaker 2: more with those regimes that are closer to their own
Speaker 2: ideological valance. And you know, this is interesting to me,
Speaker 2: sort of point in the direction of they're going to
Speaker 2: probably continue in the direction of the minerals deal.
Speaker 3: But we'll see, because you never know what.
Speaker 2: Trump he's quoting someone else who said, now, Zelenski will
Speaker 2: have no choice but to back down and accept Trump's terms.
Speaker 3: But here's the genius part.
Speaker 2: Trump is actually protecting Ukraine without dragging the US into
Speaker 2: war by negotiating a mineral deal. Trump ensores Americans will
Speaker 2: be involved in Ukraine's mining industry. That prevents Russia from
Speaker 2: launching invasion because attacking Ukraine would mean endangering American lives,
Speaker 2: something that would force the US to respond. Then goes on,
Speaker 2: Trump played both sides like a master chess player. In
Speaker 2: the end, Zelensky will have no choice but to concede.
Speaker 3: Blah blah blah.
Speaker 2: But you know, to me, the fact that Trump took
Speaker 2: the time to put this out on truth Social indicating
Speaker 2: that Okay, you know, the idea here is to go
Speaker 2: forward with this rare earth mineral deal, which by the way,
Speaker 2: includes many things other than that, and then that's going
Speaker 2: to serve as its own sort of security guarantee, so
Speaker 2: that the billionaires will get their bag out of Ukraine
Speaker 2: by exploiting that country. And then you know, will that
Speaker 2: security guarantee will make sure that Russia doesn't further invade
Speaker 2: the country. You know, that to me was an indication
Speaker 2: perhaps that's still the direction that he's moving in.
Speaker 5: Well, here's what's interesting, and here's why I kind of
Speaker 5: disagreed that this was an ambush. Zelensky comes in and
Speaker 5: says at the beginning of the meeting, because I went
Speaker 5: back and know the transcript, that he's hopeful about this deal,
Speaker 5: that this deal is the first step in.
Speaker 4: The right direction.
Speaker 5: And then what we find out is he actually believes
Speaker 5: that not have that the deal in and of itself
Speaker 5: is not a good enough security guarantee for the people
Speaker 5: of Ukraine and for Zelensky. By the way, I mean
Speaker 5: as someone who was like horrified by Zelensky's conduct, and
Speaker 5: that mean I shouldn't say horrified. That overstates it because
Speaker 5: it wasn't surprising, but was like disgusted Westolenski's conduct in
Speaker 5: that meeting. I also don't blame him because he has
Speaker 5: his own interests. He's watched so many of his own
Speaker 5: people die, he has watched his cities being destroyed. Despite
Speaker 5: the fact that he corrected Trump and said that was
Speaker 5: Russian propaganda to say that Ukrainian cities had been destroyed.
Speaker 5: Not all of them have. Some of them are like flattened,
Speaker 5: and that's what Trump was talking about.
Speaker 4: So I get that.
Speaker 5: I think from Zelenski's perspective, this is he does have
Speaker 5: his own interests. He has his own people to worry about.
Speaker 5: He is, you know, he is the representative of his
Speaker 5: own people. At the same time, the question then becomes,
Speaker 5: what was he sitting there saying that this deal is
Speaker 5: great and then always intending to not end up signing it.
Speaker 5: They could have signed it in Ki, if they could
Speaker 5: have signed it in all other places. He flies here,
Speaker 5: was he not going to sign this if he didn't
Speaker 5: get something else out of Trump?
Speaker 4: Advance? And when Vance?
Speaker 5: When when Zelenski turned to Vance, it felt like Zelensky
Speaker 5: had this like a very organic and natural tension. Again
Speaker 5: from his point of view as somebody who lives in Ukraine,
Speaker 5: who's overseeing this war and seeing the suffering of the
Speaker 5: Ukrainian people, he says Putin has steamrolled. He's me all
Speaker 5: of these agreements, you can't do diplomacy with. Putin turns
Speaker 5: the question to JD. Vance that to me, if I
Speaker 5: were Jdvans, I would have exploded to being challenged in
Speaker 5: front of the American media by the President, I would
Speaker 5: have lost my mind. Not saying it was helpful, but
Speaker 5: it would have I would have lost my mind if
Speaker 5: I were him, because it's like, actually the only option
Speaker 5: at this point, and by Zelensky's own admission, he was
Speaker 5: saying the deal with good what thirty minutes before when
Speaker 5: the press conference started, I had I had where my
Speaker 5: reaction was closer to Sagers because I was traveling and
Speaker 5: I saw the clips first, and when I saw the
Speaker 5: last ten minutes, I was like, Oh my gosh, what
Speaker 5: just happened? And then I went back and watched it
Speaker 5: from the beginning. I was like, Zolensky keeps throwing jabs
Speaker 5: at Trump, and it's like, again, I get why he
Speaker 5: would because he doesn't think this is enough, and he's
Speaker 5: seen examples before why it's not enough. But his solution
Speaker 5: is more like Clinton Bush style American imperialism. And it's
Speaker 5: just like Trump is caught in the middle of that.
Speaker 5: And it doesn't mean that Trump's genius. I'm not a
Speaker 5: big fan of the economic colonization mineral deal. But Zelenski
Speaker 5: did not do himself any favors, that's for sure.
Speaker 3: I just did not see it that way at all.
Speaker 4: It's interesting because like it's been sort of a roor
Speaker 4: Sash test.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I mean and again, like I'm not a
Speaker 2: Zelensky stand right, he does have his own interest and
Speaker 2: it is like, like I said, the things jd Vance
Speaker 2: said about, you know, people being pulled off this, like
Speaker 2: we've covered that on this show.
Speaker 3: And at this point, you know, at the.
Speaker 2: Beginning of the war, including when we were pushing them
Speaker 2: in to you know, walk away from the negotiations which
Speaker 2: he was participating in. I mean, this is what drives
Speaker 2: me crazy, is like the complete attempt to rewrite history
Speaker 2: and absolve ourselves of our role in this, absolved Trump
Speaker 2: of his role in helping to bring about this horrific
Speaker 2: war and this horrific situation where you're right, there are
Speaker 2: no good options at this point. Truly, there are no
Speaker 2: good options at this point. But you know, the tenttrarywrite
Speaker 2: history is crazy making to me. But in addition, you know,
Speaker 2: I mean to point out, like, hey, you know, this
Speaker 2: guy's not the most stressworthy actor. I don't see why
Speaker 2: that makes you explode. What would make me explode is
Speaker 2: the insanity of pretending like we had nothing to do
Speaker 2: with this situation and now you're going to have to
Speaker 2: just take it, and you owe us a thank you,
Speaker 2: a thank you for what we owe you, an apology
Speaker 2: for what we have done to this country and the
Speaker 2: way we have used it as a plaything. And again,
Speaker 2: but Lensky wants that's that's the difference.
Speaker 4: I would apologize the average Ukrainian and that to Lensky.
Speaker 2: That's what I was going to say about Zelensky is
Speaker 2: you know, at the beginning, when we were pushing let's
Speaker 2: not have these negotiations, actually the Ukrainian people were very
Speaker 2: much as much as we can tell from the polling
Speaker 2: et cetera, and from the I think this is maybe
Speaker 2: the most telling sign the number of military sign ups
Speaker 2: there were and recruits at that point where people were volunteering, like, yes,
Speaker 2: I want to be part of this war. The Ukrainian
Speaker 2: people were behind we want to fight and and you know,
Speaker 2: the US is we're all in with you, and we're
Speaker 2: going to be there, you know, standing with you and
Speaker 2: giving you everything you need, et cetera. That sentiment has
Speaker 2: very much changed, which is why you know, Zelenski's approval
Speaker 2: has fallen. Now I think his approval we don't really know,
Speaker 2: but his approval rating appears to be higher than Trump's
Speaker 2: is in our own country. So it's not like he
Speaker 2: has no support, but certainly his approval rating has fallen.
Speaker 2: There is a massive fatigue among the population. That's why
Speaker 2: they had to lower the conscription age. I mean didn't
Speaker 2: have to, but decided to lower the conscription age. That's
Speaker 2: why they've been you know, aggressively basically like kidnapping men
Speaker 2: off the streets, banning men from leaving the country, et cetera.
Speaker 2: So you know, the public sentiment within Ukraine is now
Speaker 2: diverging somewhat from Zelenski and where he wants things to be.
Speaker 3: That being said, except.
Speaker 4: For maybe since Friday when the country's like.
Speaker 3: That's what I was going to say.
Speaker 2: That being said, you know, since this dust up occurred,
Speaker 2: I do think it has probably strengthened his domestic political
Speaker 2: position because even the opposition has come out in support
Speaker 2: of him and in opposition to the way that this
Speaker 2: was handled by Trump and Vans, et cetera. So you know,
Speaker 2: again my bottom line here is whether you think it
Speaker 2: was an ambush or not.
Speaker 3: I genuinely do.
Speaker 2: But you know, I think reasonable people could disagree there,
Speaker 2: as Emily and Zader certainly disagree with me on that.
Speaker 2: The part of it that drives me crazy is just
Speaker 2: the fakery of ignoring how and why we got here,
Speaker 2: of pretending we played no role, and pretending also like
Speaker 2: we're oppositional to so let's get like we are on
Speaker 2: the same team.
Speaker 3: This is like Mississippi having.
Speaker 2: It, you know, international affairs disagreement with the federal government.
Speaker 2: And that's what I mean when I say this is
Speaker 2: a show, because it is not reflective of the actual
Speaker 2: reality of the conditions that led to this war, of
Speaker 2: the conditions that led us to exactly this point. And
Speaker 2: so you know, we'll see what the fallout is and
Speaker 2: if it changes any of the dynam but you know,
Speaker 2: as of now, I think probably Trump is probably still
Speaker 2: pushing in the direction of this minerals deal because it's
Speaker 2: very consistent with the rest of his foreign policy that
Speaker 2: he's pursuing around the world, which is just you know,
Speaker 2: it's maach and grab, like I want the again. I
Speaker 2: think it's really important for people to understand these this
Speaker 2: exploitation of Ukraine or conquest of Greenland or Panama Canal
Speaker 2: or can or whatever like, these deals are not to
Speaker 2: benefit you. There's a reason why the Ai Gaza Video
Speaker 2: has like a.
Speaker 3: Trump hotel there.
Speaker 2: This is to benefit billionaires, the Trump family themselves, their
Speaker 2: buddies around the world, and to secure those economic interests
Speaker 2: for themselves, using the US taxpayer and the US soldier
Speaker 2: to protect those economic interests. And it's not like that's
Speaker 2: a new dynamic, right. I'm not Pollyanna here, I'm not naive,
Speaker 2: not saying that this is our first trip to the
Speaker 2: you know, economic colonization rodeo.
Speaker 4: But that's a hell of a rodeos.
Speaker 3: It's been a hell of a ride. Let me tell you.
Speaker 4: He has more nakedly transact is.
Speaker 3: More nakedly transactional about it.
Speaker 2: There is not even a valance of this is about democracy,
Speaker 2: this is about human rights, This is about standing up
Speaker 2: for ourselves. This is about protecting territorial integrity. It's just
Speaker 2: about we're going to get what we can get out
Speaker 2: of it. And again not us, him and his buddies
Speaker 2: and the other billionaires that he's close to.
Speaker 3: And it was billionaires that originally.
Speaker 2: Proposed this who had direct interest in you know, exploitation
Speaker 2: in Ukraine who proposed this deal. So you know, I
Speaker 2: think there's a lot of incentive still pushing in that direction.
Speaker 3: But like I said that the.
Speaker 2: Oppositional force is wanting to align more closely with their
Speaker 2: ideological brethren in Russia. So we'll see how this all
Speaker 2: goes down. The last piece of fall in here put
Speaker 2: a five up on the screen. So this is kind
Speaker 2: of interesting. Just in terms of the global pushback, there
Speaker 2: was a Norwegian fuel supplier that refused to refuel US
Speaker 2: warships over this dust up in the White House.
Speaker 3: You know, this is a.
Speaker 2: Norwegian fuel company, halt Bach Bunkers, announced it will see
Speaker 2: supplying fuel to the US military forces in Norway and
Speaker 2: American ships docking in Norwegian ports, siding dissatisfaction with recent
Speaker 2: US policy towards Ukraine. In a strongly word a statement,
Speaker 2: company criticized televised event involving US President Trump and JD.
Speaker 2: Van's referring to it as quote the biggest shit show
Speaker 2: ever presented on live TV. They praised Zelenski for his restraint,
Speaker 2: accused the US of putting on a backstabbing TV show,
Speaker 2: and declaring that the spectacle made us six, so kind
Speaker 2: of an interesting economic retaliation.
Speaker 4: There at least we put on great TV shows.
Speaker 5: That's takeaway one thing you can't take away from Donald
Speaker 5: Trump celebrity Apprentice.
Speaker 3: I was not a watcher, but I believe you. I
Speaker 3: believe it was good.
Speaker 4: It was good.
Speaker 3: I mean, listen to the man is freaking.
Speaker 2: He's funny like he's funny, he's charismatic, he's a cat
Speaker 2: like that is that is the area where.
Speaker 3: He is an apt salute genius and you can't take
Speaker 3: that away.
Speaker 4: Cannot take that away from him. So we're in agreement
Speaker 4: on that.
Speaker 2: Yes, we'll close with that agreement. So relevant to the discussion.
Speaker 2: We were just having lots of protests breaking out over
Speaker 2: various reasons and issues across the country, but in particular, JD. Vance,
Speaker 2: after the whole dust up with Zelenski in the Oval office,
Speaker 2: took his family on a ski vacation in Vermont, and
Speaker 2: the protesters certainly showed up there. Let's take a look.
Speaker 2: We can put some of these images up on the screen.
Speaker 2: So people were lining the roadways here with signs, most
Speaker 2: of them like pro Ukraine signs. We can see all
Speaker 2: the like Ukraine flags, lots of anti Russia and Jade
Speaker 2: Vance's Putin's puppet and that sort of sentiment going on
Speaker 2: here in Vermont. You can see these signs to stand
Speaker 2: with Ukraine, Trump serves Putin. Jd Vance is a trader
Speaker 2: go Ski in Russia. I was kind of surprised that
Speaker 2: they were able to spin up this protest this quick. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a lot of it just happened, and I mean it
Speaker 2: does go to what I do. Feel like this kind
Speaker 2: of really touched a nerve for a lot of people
Speaker 2: who were you know, because it's easy like on this show,
Speaker 2: we've had tried to have a nuanced view of this
Speaker 2: conflict and have been pushing for an end to the
Speaker 2: war since the war really began.
Speaker 3: But if you look at.
Speaker 2: The pulling people are over like, it's not like people
Speaker 2: love Vladimir Putin, they hate Putin. Zolensky has a higher
Speaker 2: favorability rating than JD. Vance or Donald Trump in our country.
Speaker 2: And so I do think it's easy to get in
Speaker 2: a bubble where you feel like because online there's all
Speaker 2: this like anti Zelensky sentiment and you know, interest in
Speaker 2: being more aligned with Russia, which, like I think if
Speaker 2: we had had better relations with all the nations of
Speaker 2: the world, that would be.
Speaker 3: A good thing. But that is not really reflective of
Speaker 3: where public sentiment has been on this conflict.
Speaker 5: I mean, the protest to me looked like a bunch
Speaker 5: of sort of and I say this lovingly, like crunchy
Speaker 5: boomer Vermont hippies, which is interesting.
Speaker 4: Yeah, guess is that lovingly.
Speaker 5: But what's interesting is the energy where you're able to
Speaker 5: like mobilize a bunch of people to get I mean,
Speaker 5: if if you're listening to this you missed on those videos,
Speaker 5: if you hadn't seen them, is there actually are a.
Speaker 4: Lot of people lining the road?
Speaker 5: And to Crystal's point, this is within like twenty four
Speaker 5: hours of all of that going down.
Speaker 4: So I think it does speak to it.
Speaker 5: We're going to talk about democrats later in the show,
Speaker 5: but I think it does legitimately speak to the energy
Speaker 5: that does exist on the left, even though some people aren't,
Speaker 5: like it's obviously not twenty seventeen right now, there's not
Speaker 5: a Women's March happening, but there's still significant, significant hostility
Speaker 5: to Trump to the point where it can rally people.
Speaker 5: And the Russia exists, it looms large in the Boomer imagination,
Speaker 5: so there's an emotional trigger I think anytime it looks
Speaker 5: like the United States is aligning, or you can make
Speaker 5: the argument that the United States is a ligning with Russia,
Speaker 5: which I don't agree with in this case, but that
Speaker 5: just gets people out into the streets. Yeah, so's there's
Speaker 5: something there.
Speaker 2: There's a spark well, and I think you're right that
Speaker 2: it is part and parcel of a larger just like
Speaker 2: anti Trump, anti Lane resistance that has truly fomented and
Speaker 2: really without much leadership from the Democratic elites. You have
Speaker 2: some of these groups like Invisible and move On that
Speaker 2: have really taken the lead. You've got a few members,
Speaker 2: I mean Bernie being the primary example, who have sort
Speaker 2: of led the charge, but a lot of this is
Speaker 2: very Grossroos organizing. Meanwhile, you know, the Democratic leadership is
Speaker 2: meeting and being like, let's make ourselves more friendly to billionaires, etc.
Speaker 2: Like Emily said, We'll get to that in a minute.
Speaker 2: But in addition to those protests, there were someone some
Speaker 2: videos of datavans like on the ski slopes getting yelled
Speaker 2: at and stuff.
Speaker 3: Anyway, I enjoyed, But would you.
Speaker 4: Do it if you were there, would you yell at them?
Speaker 3: Probably?
Speaker 2: Not, just because I'm like, you know, a public person
Speaker 2: crystals viral.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't want to like put myself in the center.
Speaker 2: But you know, do I support prominent, powerful people getting
Speaker 2: yelled at when they're in public places?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: I do, Yes, I do, and not just on the
Speaker 2: Republican side across the board yell at your especially because
Speaker 2: they won't even like, you know, these senators and congress
Speaker 2: people like they're back out of their town halls. They're
Speaker 2: so terrified that someone's going to like be into them
Speaker 2: or ask them a.
Speaker 3: Hostile question or whatever.
Speaker 2: So what other chance do you have to get to
Speaker 2: express your views than when they decide to go on
Speaker 2: their ski vacation.
Speaker 5: You really ran on the wrong side of the two parties.
Speaker 5: Take it, Crystal.
Speaker 4: Remember this is the exact argument the right.
Speaker 5: The right was like, yeah, let them hear it, like
Speaker 5: just shout them, you know, which I agree with obviously.
Speaker 2: I think they should be required to submit themselves to
Speaker 2: debates town halls, like you cannot hide from the public
Speaker 2: if you're supposed to be a public official. But let's
Speaker 2: put this next piece up on the screen. There was
Speaker 2: a local ski reporter this is kind of funny, who
Speaker 2: writes like the snow report locally, who used her platform
Speaker 2: to express her views against this was less to do
Speaker 2: with Celenski and war to do with climate and with
Speaker 2: the attacks on the National Weather Service in particular.
Speaker 3: So she wrote a long, a long.
Speaker 2: Piece there that also included the news about the snow
Speaker 2: but she, you know, was upset about the Noah cuts.
Speaker 2: She was also upset about the the attacks on, like,
Speaker 2: you know, some of the things that were being done
Speaker 2: to mitigate climate change. So that was interesting as well.
Speaker 2: And then a few members, Republican members did decide to
Speaker 2: go forward with their town halls. When we show you
Speaker 2: a mashup of this, this is one representive Diana Harsberger
Speaker 2: from Tennessee, Keith self from Texas, and then probably the
Speaker 2: most interesting one, Senator Roger Marshall from Kansas, who is confronted.
Speaker 2: You'll see in the video by someone who's concerned about
Speaker 2: veterans being fired, and he just basically decides to rage
Speaker 2: quit his own town hall. At this point, people are
Speaker 2: yelling him like, you haven't even been here an now or.
Speaker 3: Et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: So let's take a look at the temperature at these
Speaker 2: various town halls.
Speaker 13: There's been a mandate to the president from the American
Speaker 13: people and not correct, No, there's not a mandate by
Speaker 13: the American people.
Speaker 3: Who's thirty percent.
Speaker 13: Congressional Budget Office. You know what it's going to be
Speaker 13: about twenty thirty five. It's going to be fifty nine trillion.
Speaker 13: Did I tell you the one.
Speaker 14: Is in those programs?
Speaker 4: Listen, this is.
Speaker 7: Very tousy again.
Speaker 3: Coming now as far as cutting out those jobs, a
Speaker 3: huge percentage of those people. And I even know what
Speaker 3: you care about the vetterance.
Speaker 7: Yes, and that is.
Speaker 13: A damn shame.
Speaker 12: Yes, yeah, that is a shame.
Speaker 13: I'm not a Democrat, but I'm worried about the veterans.
Speaker 4: You Tucker, when to stand up.
Speaker 14: I do got two more commitments today.
Speaker 6: Appreciate everybody making them drive out and.
Speaker 2: God listener, so you can see people very much not happy.
Speaker 2: And that last piece was a Senator, Roger Marshall, who's saying, like,
Speaker 2: you know how I've got these other commitments got to.
Speaker 3: Go, and people are not happy about it.
Speaker 2: And it was interesting because that guy stood up and
Speaker 2: he's like, I'm not a Democrat, but I am concerned
Speaker 2: about the veterans. So you're starting to get in a
Speaker 2: little bit of a broader swath. Of course, most of
Speaker 2: the people that are going to show up at a
Speaker 2: town hall are likely to be you know, they're likely
Speaker 2: to be partisans. They were in the Tea Party era
Speaker 2: as well. But the cope from the right that like, oh,
Speaker 2: these are just like paid activists by George Soros or whatever.
Speaker 2: You know, I heard the same thing from Democrats during
Speaker 2: the Tea Party era. But if you know anything about politics,
Speaker 2: if you've been involved, either you know, in electoral politics
Speaker 2: or as an activists, you know it is damn near
Speaker 2: impossible to get people to show up to things.
Speaker 3: And so if.
Speaker 2: People are willing to take time out of their day
Speaker 2: to go to this town hall and yell at their
Speaker 2: congression or yell at their senator, even if they are partisans,
Speaker 2: that is representative of a real energy that exists out
Speaker 2: there that is quite consequential, especially when you think in
Speaker 2: terms of things like special elections and midterm elections.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 5: So according to Axios, about thirty percent of the federal
Speaker 5: workforces veterans, and a.
Speaker 4: Big trenk of that is disabled veterans.
Speaker 5: So this is a I mean, I think it's in
Speaker 5: comparison about five percent of the private sector workforces veterans.
Speaker 5: This is like a huge percentage of the federal workforce
Speaker 5: compared to the private workforce is veteran composed. So mass
Speaker 5: cuts are going to target veterans. Actually, Democrats have introduced
Speaker 5: a bill to reinstate veterans who are fired without cause
Speaker 5: by the Trump administration. So that's how vulnerable Republicans will
Speaker 5: be on this issue. It's we were talking earlier in
Speaker 5: this block about how you create a sort of a
Speaker 5: a trigger issue for some boomers. Well, this is a
Speaker 5: trigger issue for people who are like across the political
Speaker 5: spectrum of all demographics. As soon as veterans in their communities,
Speaker 5: there are vas that I mean a lot of cases
Speaker 5: are already people are worried or understaffed or are crumbling
Speaker 5: in every community. Yeah, and when that hits home, that
Speaker 5: reflects on doge and so to the extent that public
Speaker 5: opinion on DOGE is falling, some people may say, well,
Speaker 5: it's just the chaos babble.
Speaker 4: I think a lot of it is localized.
Speaker 5: I think the more people start seeing this in their community,
Speaker 5: the more Republicans are going to need to have answers,
Speaker 5: and these town halls are not going to cut it.
Speaker 5: I mean, from a political standpoint, it's insane that they're
Speaker 5: still doing these town halls, even though it's great to see,
Speaker 5: you know, support it. Yeah, yeah, I mean, it doesn't
Speaker 5: matter if they're Democrat or Republican. I I would support it.
Speaker 5: But from a political standpoint, it just seems to me
Speaker 5: they're not prepared to answer some of these questions because
Speaker 5: the broad project of slashing government making it quote more
Speaker 5: efficient might poll okay, but when you localize it, it's
Speaker 5: a very different matter.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's right.
Speaker 2: And you know, I so I've mentioned before my first
Speaker 2: job out of college was working for like a federal
Speaker 2: government contractor, and my primary client was the US federal courts,
Speaker 2: and so I spent a lot of time working both
Speaker 2: at the Administraty of Office here in d C. But
Speaker 2: also one of my jobs was to travel around the
Speaker 2: country to the different court systems and help them with
Speaker 2: their software implementation blah blah blah. And it was really
Speaker 2: interesting because one of the things that I noticed is
Speaker 2: that the smaller the town, like say, you know, I
Speaker 2: traveled to Soo Fall, South Dakota. It's a relatively small city,
Speaker 2: the more sort of like impressive the people working there were.
Speaker 2: And this is not to slam federal government employees in
Speaker 2: large cities or whatever, but because the salaries were comparatively
Speaker 2: high for that area, you really would attract like the
Speaker 2: cream of the crop in terms of you know, that
Speaker 2: local community, and those tend to be people who are
Speaker 2: really like pillars of the community. And so it's almost
Speaker 2: like the smaller the area that you go to, the
Speaker 2: more consequential whatever the federal government jobs are going to
Speaker 2: be to that community. It's sort of the same thing
Speaker 2: with public schools. You know, public schools really important teachers
Speaker 2: and administrators really the sort of like lynchpin in the
Speaker 2: community the smaller the town that you go in, which
Speaker 2: is why during the teacher strikewave you had this huge
Speaker 2: backlash in red rural states because of exactly that dynamic
Speaker 2: and how sort of like significant those institutions were as
Speaker 2: centers of community and how significant those individuals were to
Speaker 2: that community, and we can put the put B five
Speaker 2: up on the screen. This is about the national parks.
Speaker 2: This is another piece that I think really hits home
Speaker 2: for people. In addition to obviously no one wants to
Speaker 2: see like disabled veterans getting laid off. No one wants
Speaker 2: to see military spouses getting laid off, which is another
Speaker 2: significant component because they're disproportionately on that probationary period because
Speaker 2: they're not going to move around the country. No one
Speaker 2: wants to see these national parks that we really you know,
Speaker 2: we really take pride and really enjoy being destroyed and
Speaker 2: being so understaff that they can't handle the crowds that
Speaker 2: are coming in that you can't even some of them
Speaker 2: have had to shut down, even making reservations for the future.
Speaker 2: Lots of families plan their summers and their vacations around
Speaker 2: being able to go to these national parks. And so
Speaker 2: I think that's another like very tangible thing to people
Speaker 2: where it contributes to this sense of your cutting into
Speaker 2: things that we actually care about, like the things about
Speaker 2: the federal government that we actually appreciate, that we actually
Speaker 2: enjoy and that you know, genuinely do contribute to the
Speaker 2: public goods. So this was again an impressive effort. You
Speaker 2: had thousands of people at national parks all across the
Speaker 2: country from California to Maine. There's a group called Resistance Rangers,
Speaker 2: consisting of about seven hundred off duty rangers that have
Speaker 2: been helping to organize these protests.
Speaker 3: They were able Their goal was.
Speaker 2: To get prote at all of the country's four hundred
Speaker 2: and thirty three National park sites. I think they were
Speaker 2: able to pull off protests at at least one hundred
Speaker 2: and forty five sites, So pretty impressive there, and I
Speaker 2: do think that that has been another locus of public
Speaker 2: upset and pushback. The other thing is, let's put before
Speaker 2: up on the screen. The uh you know, Tesla has
Speaker 2: become the one of the most visible symbols of Elon Musk,
Speaker 2: who you know, people myself included, very unhappy about the
Speaker 2: way he is just sort of like claimed control of
Speaker 2: the federal government for himself. So there was a large
Speaker 2: protest in I believe this was in Tucson outside of
Speaker 2: a Tesla dealership and you can see here up on
Speaker 2: the screen. You know, this is at a lot of people, yeah,
Speaker 2: that are gathered there on the side of the road
Speaker 2: to protest Elon and Doge and the cuts that are
Speaker 2: being made. I have anecdotally been seeing around town. I
Speaker 2: don't know if you've seen any of the Tesla's that's
Speaker 2: to have the bumper sticker that say, like, I bought
Speaker 2: it before I knew Elon was insane. Tesla as a
Speaker 2: company we covered this last week, is not doing well.
Speaker 2: Sales have fallen almost fifty percent in Europe, They're down
Speaker 2: significantly in California. Part of that is certainly because of
Speaker 2: Elon being so closely associated with the brand. In fact,
Speaker 2: the company, you know, every company is obligated to put
Speaker 2: out in their disclosures what are the risks to the company,
Speaker 2: and they have long said that one of the risks
Speaker 2: is Elon being so closely associated with it and if
Speaker 2: opinion changes of him, that could have a really negative impact.
Speaker 2: So we are seeing that that bear out and reality
Speaker 2: in the stock price suffer as a result.
Speaker 5: It's funny because you can also make the argument that
Speaker 5: there's been a benefit, obviously not overall, but that there's
Speaker 5: been a boost now that Elon Musk has become this
Speaker 5: weird cultural litmus test, and that I know a bunch
Speaker 5: of people on the right who are now into tesla
Speaker 5: and it's hilarious because it used.
Speaker 4: To be the other way around.
Speaker 5: It used to be like the people who now have
Speaker 5: those stickers on the back of their cars were like
Speaker 5: environmentally friendly and this was sort of a badge of
Speaker 5: a virtue to drive a Tesla. And I saw a
Speaker 5: woman yesterday shouting at a random I was going out
Speaker 5: to get a coffee, just a Tesla at a four
Speaker 5: way intersection and this woman just comes around like, af tesla,
Speaker 5: I don't support effing elo really, yeah, just laying into.
Speaker 3: This Tesla driver faster girl. Yeah, I gotta record that
Speaker 3: for it was.
Speaker 5: It was really wild, but on the point about firing
Speaker 5: and then reinstating people. So that has happened at the
Speaker 5: VA and National Parks because we were just talking about
Speaker 5: both of them. Democrats estimate like six thousand veterans have
Speaker 5: been laid off so far, and the National Parks also
Speaker 5: restored some of the jobs that were eliminated. And it's
Speaker 5: one of those things where Elon Musk's and the oval
Speaker 5: Or he was at the cabinet meeting last week saying
Speaker 5: we're going to make mistakes. We accidentally canceled a Bola
Speaker 5: protection remember when he said that last week, And it's
Speaker 5: just they don't have that. They're just relying on this
Speaker 5: overall project. And of course both things can be true,
Speaker 5: that like national parks can be great, we can love
Speaker 5: our veterans, and the VA can have all kinds of
Speaker 5: problems with everyone agrees with across the political spectrum that
Speaker 5: the VA has tons of problems and probably does need
Speaker 5: to be streamlined and more efficient.
Speaker 4: But if you're going to make that argument, you need
Speaker 4: to be.
Speaker 5: Prepared for what it means when people are veterans who
Speaker 5: serve the country are losing their jobs and Elon is
Speaker 5: out with a chainsaw at seapack. And that is what Republicans,
Speaker 5: despite having all this time to prepare for what Doge
Speaker 5: would do, have not been prepared to deal with.
Speaker 2: I think Sager made a good point about Elon too,
Speaker 2: that the more that he the less he comes off
Speaker 2: as like, oh, the brilliant, visionary, genius businessman, and the
Speaker 2: more he comes off as like your asshole boss. Yeah,
Speaker 2: the worst that's going to be politically for Elon. And
Speaker 2: you can already start to see the way that this
Speaker 2: is also weighing down Trump and then you know, you
Speaker 2: add to that the Republican budget proposal, which includes slashing
Speaker 2: Medicaid and massive tax cuts to the rich, and you
Speaker 2: can really very clearly paint the picture of oh, this
Speaker 2: administration they're just for They're for Blan and their rich buddies.
Speaker 2: I mean the crypto thing obviously goes hand in glove
Speaker 2: with that as well, Like this is just a pro
Speaker 2: oligarch agenda, and these cuts really have nothing to do
Speaker 2: with making the government so efficient. That's what I've heard
Speaker 2: from kind of like normy moderates who have voted for
Speaker 2: Republicans in the past or whatever. It's like, you know,
Speaker 2: I'm all about more government efficiency, and I do think
Speaker 2: the government should be smaller, but you have to be
Speaker 2: smart about how you do it. You can't just come
Speaker 2: in with a patch it and cut, like, you know,
Speaker 2: people important for air traffic control as another example. Here,
Speaker 2: As these protests emily spring up across the country, Bill
Speaker 2: Maher has some ideas about how the Democrats and how
Speaker 2: this resistance is ultimately playing out. He gathered his panel
Speaker 2: of Fared Zakaria and Rum Emmanuel to weigh in on
Speaker 2: some very cherry picked, selective protest demonstrations. Let's take a
Speaker 2: list to how that went.
Speaker 14: This is something called the People's Union USA, and they
Speaker 14: have something called Today. I've got emails about this from
Speaker 14: people no spend Day and it's against the malign influence
Speaker 14: of billionaires, big corporations and both major political parties and
Speaker 14: the lives of working Americans. And what it is is
Speaker 14: you refrained from making any purchases either in stores or online,
Speaker 14: to shun fast food, getting gas for a full day.
Speaker 14: I know that look on your face says it all.
Speaker 14: You're right, it's so fucking stupid.
Speaker 15: The idea is right.
Speaker 4: You never wrote that has let too much time on
Speaker 4: their hand.
Speaker 14: Now this is the thing that's going on today.
Speaker 10: And it just mistakes. This is why I was saying
Speaker 10: that there really is a movement of people doing interpretive
Speaker 10: dances to protest the Trump administrations cuts of USA idea.
Speaker 10: I mean, like people are starving.
Speaker 4: You know. The thing about not winning.
Speaker 10: As you said, is you're left with these kind of absurdities.
Speaker 10: The answer is figure out how to win elections. You
Speaker 10: know that's very I mean, yes, what's the democrats? Listen
Speaker 10: to the Democrats about Bill Clinton and Barack Obama both
Speaker 10: of whom you work for.
Speaker 4: So these are the only two.
Speaker 10: Democrats since Franklin Roosevelt to on won two terms. Right,
Speaker 10: and what does the party say they did everything wrong?
Speaker 4: We've got to.
Speaker 10: Get away from sec Wait a minute, they're the ones
Speaker 10: who won the elections. Yes, bred Bernie Sanders didn't win
Speaker 10: AOC hasn't been president recently. Like you know, the the
Speaker 10: Labor Party does this with Tony Blair. They're like, Blair
Speaker 10: is horrible.
Speaker 4: He won three elections.
Speaker 15: Yeah, let me get breaking news. One hundred thousand new
Speaker 15: community police officers or defund the police? Now, which one
Speaker 15: do you think is what?
Speaker 4: It's crazy? And on this partify it's example of this.
Speaker 15: I think the party. You know, you're talking about interpretive
Speaker 15: dance and everything like that, And what's really crazy about
Speaker 15: where the party's gone it is ident it's taking an
Speaker 15: identity politics that the only way you have a moral
Speaker 15: standing is yours somehow been hurt. And that is insane.
Speaker 15: And if you want to take a moral standing of
Speaker 15: an identity politics based on where you've been hurt, then
Speaker 15: we're going to do it about the working in middle
Speaker 15: class families of this country's gotten the shaft over the
Speaker 15: last thirty years and that is where we been.
Speaker 3: Go Oh my god, that made me want to kill myself.
Speaker 2: I mean, it is the neoliberal wing of the party
Speaker 2: as representated by Hillary Clinton, who foisted identity politics honest
Speaker 2: in an attempt to block Bernie Sanders, who was actually
Speaker 2: talking about working class people and trying to deliver for them.
Speaker 2: That makes me insane. In addition, pretending like they've been
Speaker 2: following the Bernie Sanders path to victory and it just
Speaker 2: hasn't worked out is preposterous. Kamala Harris and Joe Biden
Speaker 2: did all the things you people would want them to do,
Speaker 2: and she lost.
Speaker 4: She lost.
Speaker 2: Where there's the reckoning with that? And then finally to
Speaker 2: pretend like the only thing that's happening at this point
Speaker 2: is some like cringe interpretive dance protest, which it was
Speaker 2: outside the Kennedy Center, I believe is where that happened.
Speaker 2: Like that's just dishonest, that's just dishonest. But they don't
Speaker 2: want to acknowledge that. To the point about, hey, you
Speaker 2: need to win, you need to take power. That Bernie
Speaker 2: Sanders is out doing town halls in swing districts across
Speaker 2: the country talking about oligarchy and fighting back because he
Speaker 2: wants to put pressure on the moderate supposedly, not that
Speaker 2: such a thing really exists on the Republican swing district
Speaker 2: members who Mike Johnson needs in order to vote and
Speaker 2: pass anything. So there are first of all, a few
Speaker 2: people out there who actually have a strategy, who are
Speaker 2: in leadership, but by and large, the grassroots base has
Speaker 2: been left to fend for themselves and they are out,
Speaker 2: you know, at these town halls trying to use pressure
Speaker 2: on public officials in a way that I do think
Speaker 2: could be impactful. I mean you see the way, Emily
Speaker 2: that they are very uncomfortable, these Republican representatives when they're
Speaker 2: actually confronted with these questions, and like you said, they
Speaker 2: don't have responses. Most of them are just avoiding town
Speaker 2: halls altogether. But I can tell you from being at
Speaker 2: those Tea party protests back in twenty ten, seeing people
Speaker 2: in person, in your face, with an a certain view
Speaker 2: and upset about what's going on. These are human beings
Speaker 2: that has an impact on you.
Speaker 4: Oh, I believe it. Yeah.
Speaker 5: And Ram Emmanuel, by the way, worked for Barack Obama.
Speaker 5: So the line about identity politics is pretty laughable because
Speaker 5: the Obama eras when the Democratic Party, of which he
Speaker 5: was a sort of card carrying establishment elite member of he.
Speaker 2: Was an architect of the ideological direction. I mean he
Speaker 2: selected for what type of candidates, yes, would be backed
Speaker 2: by the DNC.
Speaker 4: Which went great for the DNC.
Speaker 2: And by the way, to your point about Obama, sorry
Speaker 2: to jump in, but Obama is good at getting himself elected.
Speaker 2: How did the Democratic Party do under Obama? They lost
Speaker 2: a thousand state House legislative seats across the country, They
Speaker 2: lost governor's mansion, they lost rural America.
Speaker 3: That happened under Obama.
Speaker 2: So don't tell me about how great he was for
Speaker 2: the party, because yeah, he was good at getting himself
Speaker 2: re elected. But they lost the House, they lost the Senate,
Speaker 2: they lost the state houses, they got totally destroyed and
Speaker 2: redistricting because of the Tea Party wave. And guess who
Speaker 2: gets elected after Obama? Donald Trump. And you think that
Speaker 2: you don't take any of the blame for setting up
Speaker 2: the political preconditions that lead to that, like, give me
Speaker 2: a break, give me a break.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean, the other thing that's funny about
Speaker 5: this now Democrats are working with a lot here, so
Speaker 5: and polling is increasingly bearing this out. So fifty four
Speaker 5: this is the new PBS poll. Fifty four percent of
Speaker 5: Independence say that the president is changing the country for
Speaker 5: the worst, that early changes have been for the worst,
Speaker 5: and that it's also a big chunk of people who
Speaker 5: say two thirds of independents say Trump is rushing to
Speaker 5: make change without considering the impact of his decisions.
Speaker 4: Fifty six percent.
Speaker 5: Of Independence in this poll view elon Musk unfavorably. So
Speaker 5: the answer to that is not mar and ram and manualism, right, Like,
Speaker 5: they're not tapping into what people are upset about at all.
Speaker 4: They're not like writing the ship. It's just this.
Speaker 5: This is a serious like dynamic in terms of and
Speaker 5: it's something Trump has benefited from forever, and it's led
Speaker 5: the Republicans to take wrong lessons from all this, and
Speaker 5: it's going to do the same for Democrats. Just because
Speaker 5: public opinion is going in one direction, it doesn't mean
Speaker 5: that it's great for Democrats. Democrats actually have to proactively
Speaker 5: come up with something better than Muskism. You can't just
Speaker 5: rely on people being unhappy with Musk because then people
Speaker 5: end up picking what they see as the lesser of
Speaker 5: two evils, and that doesn't always go in democrats favor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was that James Carvel piece in the New
Speaker 2: York Times. I think that was like, just don't do anything.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yes, definitely.
Speaker 2: You know, and we've heard this argument too before from
Speaker 2: I think Hakeem Jeffries. Oh my god, what a what
Speaker 2: a pathetic loser said something, I'll let them punch themselves down,
Speaker 2: don't swing at every pitch, et cetera, et cetera. Think
Speaker 2: of how Republicans responded to Obama. Did they say, like,
Speaker 2: I'll just let them punch themselves. We're just gonna sit back.
Speaker 4: They're just going to destroy them eggs and ham in
Speaker 4: the Senate fl.
Speaker 2: I mean, come on, like, get real, you have to fight,
Speaker 2: you have to offer, and it's not enough to, you know,
Speaker 2: let them manifest the horrors of their own agenda. You
Speaker 2: have to offer an alternative vision if nothing else. Even
Speaker 2: if you think, and I think it is possible that
Speaker 2: just through the declining favorability and potential economic collapse their
Speaker 2: coording by the way of the Trump Musk administration, that
Speaker 2: Democrats could do well in the midterms. But this isn't
Speaker 2: just a like who cares what party is in control?
Speaker 2: If they're not delivering ultimately for people's lives, and so
Speaker 2: you can't lose sight of that either. You have to
Speaker 2: explain how you are going to actually deliver material and
Speaker 2: make life better for people, make country better, make the
Speaker 2: world a better place. And if you're not doing that,
Speaker 2: like why do you even exist as a political party?
Speaker 2: Like what is the point of this other than a
Speaker 2: racket for consultants and for politicians to get their attention
Speaker 2: and be able to insider trade.
Speaker 5: So it's not just going to be enough to know
Speaker 5: that you should be talking about the price of eggs
Speaker 5: as opposed to identity politics and dancing outside the Kennedy Center.
Speaker 5: You actually need to explain what Democrats are going to
Speaker 5: do to lower the price of eggs. Because one of
Speaker 5: the interesting things in the PBS pool is actually that
Speaker 5: there's a growing sense from the public. This is a
Speaker 5: quote from the article that the country is headed in
Speaker 5: the right direction. Forty five percent of Americans believe so,
Speaker 5: which was up ten points from December and now at
Speaker 5: the second highest point of the last fifteen years. It's
Speaker 5: very interesting about that is it gets to the lesser
Speaker 5: of two evils. Point is that if your answer to
Speaker 5: Trump and Musk, who are increasingly struggling with independence, is
Speaker 5: going to be like, if your answer also sucks, doesn't
Speaker 5: mean that you're going to beat Trump and get your
Speaker 5: power back.
Speaker 4: You have to have an answer that's better.
Speaker 5: Otherwise people are going to continue doing lesser two evil dynamics,
Speaker 5: which doesn't work out well for the Democrats even though they're.
Speaker 4: Like Trump and Musk are so crazy, it's going to
Speaker 4: be great for us.
Speaker 5: Well, no, it's only going to be great for you
Speaker 5: if you're better, if you have a better answer about
Speaker 5: the price of eggs, and you don't