WEBVTT - Kenny Greenberg

0:00:08.600 --> 0:00:13.720
<v Speaker 1>Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Leftstt's podcast. My guest

0:00:13.760 --> 0:00:19.200
<v Speaker 1>today is guitarist producer Kenny Greenberg. Kenny, how'd you get

0:00:19.200 --> 0:00:21.640
<v Speaker 1>the gig playing on the road with Kenny Chesney?

0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:27.720
<v Speaker 2>I got the gig playing with Kenny Chesney because I'd

0:00:27.720 --> 0:00:30.840
<v Speaker 2>been playing on his records for a while and we

0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:34.280
<v Speaker 2>became friends doing that. It's like when you overdub with

0:00:34.320 --> 0:00:36.519
<v Speaker 2>someone and it's just you and the artist in the room.

0:00:37.000 --> 0:00:40.280
<v Speaker 2>That's a good way to get to know somebody. And

0:00:40.280 --> 0:00:43.839
<v Speaker 2>and then I went and did a tour with Bob Seger,

0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.640
<v Speaker 2>and I sent him a couple of clips of playing

0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:51.320
<v Speaker 2>with Bob, and I think a thing went off in

0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:56.360
<v Speaker 2>his head. Oh, he plays live too, And so when

0:00:56.400 --> 0:01:00.400
<v Speaker 2>he was going to do a tour in two thy twelve,

0:01:01.240 --> 0:01:04.039
<v Speaker 2>he called me and said, hey, one of my guitar

0:01:04.080 --> 0:01:07.840
<v Speaker 2>players quit, want to come out and play? And I said, yeah, absolutely,

0:01:08.280 --> 0:01:11.840
<v Speaker 2>And also knowing that Bob was winding down. Bob had

0:01:12.440 --> 0:01:14.479
<v Speaker 2>told me a couple of times, I think I'm about

0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:16.959
<v Speaker 2>to wrap it up, maybe one more, but that's about it.

0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.240
<v Speaker 2>So I thought, well, I think I'll go play with Kenny.

0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:21.800
<v Speaker 2>And it was a That's how I got the gig.

0:01:23.000 --> 0:01:24.959
<v Speaker 1>Well, let's back up a step. How'd you get the gig?

0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:26.000
<v Speaker 1>Played for Bob.

0:01:25.840 --> 0:01:30.039
<v Speaker 2>Seeger playing on his records. I played on like two

0:01:30.200 --> 0:01:33.880
<v Speaker 2>or three of his records, and he's just I can't

0:01:33.920 --> 0:01:36.880
<v Speaker 2>say enough good things about him. He's just like a

0:01:37.120 --> 0:01:39.319
<v Speaker 2>great guy to be around. He's one of those kind

0:01:39.319 --> 0:01:42.160
<v Speaker 2>of guys that laughs all the time and he's just

0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:47.319
<v Speaker 2>was awesome. And then we cut a couple things where

0:01:47.360 --> 0:01:51.320
<v Speaker 2>we cut him kind of live. We had reached windings

0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.960
<v Speaker 2>on the B three and I think when someone's called

0:01:55.040 --> 0:02:01.640
<v Speaker 2>Gypsy and we cut it live RCA studio, everybody in

0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:04.240
<v Speaker 2>the room and we stood up and played, and I

0:02:04.280 --> 0:02:07.720
<v Speaker 2>think he recognized, oh, he stands up and he can

0:02:07.720 --> 0:02:10.320
<v Speaker 2>play live. So he called me up and asked me

0:02:10.360 --> 0:02:11.440
<v Speaker 2>to come out and play with him.

0:02:12.880 --> 0:02:14.960
<v Speaker 1>Well, how do you feel about going on the road

0:02:14.960 --> 0:02:18.320
<v Speaker 1>as opposed to being in Nashville, you know, being in

0:02:18.360 --> 0:02:21.680
<v Speaker 1>the studio or losing gigs? What are your feelings?

0:02:22.919 --> 0:02:27.799
<v Speaker 2>I mean, everybody, I'll put it to you this way.

0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:31.600
<v Speaker 2>I think fifty you know, twenty years ago, I think

0:02:31.680 --> 0:02:36.400
<v Speaker 2>studio players were more concerned about not going on the

0:02:36.520 --> 0:02:39.720
<v Speaker 2>road and making sure they kept all the studio gigs.

0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:47.680
<v Speaker 2>But the landscape has changed a lot, and most studio

0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.640
<v Speaker 2>players have some kind of a road gig because the

0:02:50.680 --> 0:02:53.480
<v Speaker 2>studio thing is just smaller now. So, I mean, there

0:02:53.520 --> 0:02:57.160
<v Speaker 2>are a few exceptions, but I mean I know a

0:02:57.200 --> 0:02:59.960
<v Speaker 2>lot of the guys that do are really the top

0:03:00.120 --> 0:03:04.320
<v Speaker 2>guys right now. A lot of those guys have road gigs.

0:03:04.480 --> 0:03:09.520
<v Speaker 2>And it's also worth noting that, especially in the country sphere,

0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:14.959
<v Speaker 2>the road gigs are usually either just Friday and Saturday

0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:17.239
<v Speaker 2>or Thursday through Saturday, and then you come back to

0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Nashville and then you go back out and then you

0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:22.000
<v Speaker 2>come back. So a lot of the sessions during the

0:03:22.000 --> 0:03:25.200
<v Speaker 2>week you just don't miss. You know, they're still there,

0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.640
<v Speaker 2>and everybody understands, Oh, you're out playing with Chesney. Wow,

0:03:28.680 --> 0:03:33.200
<v Speaker 2>what a cool gig. So we also all have our

0:03:33.520 --> 0:03:37.000
<v Speaker 2>mobile rigs in our hotel rooms and they send us

0:03:37.040 --> 0:03:38.839
<v Speaker 2>files and we overdub and send them back.

0:03:40.000 --> 0:03:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Okay, when we were scheduling this, you said you might

0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.480
<v Speaker 1>have to cancel if work came through. Is it a

0:03:46.680 --> 0:03:50.520
<v Speaker 1>last spinted thing or is this just a busy time.

0:03:50.680 --> 0:03:54.440
<v Speaker 1>What's it like in a studio player in Nashville now.

0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:57.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, it's just a lot of things come up at

0:03:57.640 --> 0:03:59.760
<v Speaker 2>the last minute. And actually I had a couple people

0:03:59.800 --> 0:04:03.800
<v Speaker 2>say I might need you either Wednesday or Thursday of

0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.400
<v Speaker 2>this week, but we're not sure yet. So that's why

0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.600
<v Speaker 2>I said that. And I'm also you know, is a

0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:13.160
<v Speaker 2>full disclosure. I'm not a full time session guy and

0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:18.120
<v Speaker 2>really never have. I've always produced records, written songs, played

0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:22.240
<v Speaker 2>on the road. So there are guys who are much

0:04:22.279 --> 0:04:24.839
<v Speaker 2>busier in the studio than me. I like to do

0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:29.080
<v Speaker 2>different things, so I've always I've always done that, you know,

0:04:29.200 --> 0:04:31.960
<v Speaker 2>maybe to my detriment. Maybe if I did one thing

0:04:32.000 --> 0:04:34.640
<v Speaker 2>it might have been better, but I just really enjoyed

0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:37.479
<v Speaker 2>doing different things, so I would have to say that

0:04:39.160 --> 0:04:44.560
<v Speaker 2>I'm really not as concerned about losing sessions. And also

0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:49.400
<v Speaker 2>the sort of arc of a session player, I'm probably

0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:52.640
<v Speaker 2>on the backside of that because of my age. I mean,

0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:53.359
<v Speaker 2>I just am.

0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:56.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, how did you end up playing on Kenny's Records?

0:04:56.720 --> 0:04:57.320
<v Speaker 1>To begin with?

0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:01.760
<v Speaker 2>The way I got into play on Kenny's Records is

0:05:01.800 --> 0:05:05.960
<v Speaker 2>his co longtime co producer. His name is Buddy Cannon.

0:05:06.320 --> 0:05:11.160
<v Speaker 2>He's it's a wonderful guy, and the I was going

0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.640
<v Speaker 2>to produce a record for Sony on an artist named

0:05:14.640 --> 0:05:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Shelley Fairchild, and they said, man, what if we put

0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:22.520
<v Speaker 2>you together with Buddy Cannon, who I'd never met, And

0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.520
<v Speaker 2>this is in two thousand and early two thousand and three,

0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.400
<v Speaker 2>and I said, man, Buddy Cannon, I'd love to work

0:05:29.400 --> 0:05:30.119
<v Speaker 2>with Buddy Cannon.

0:05:30.160 --> 0:05:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Who wouldn't.

0:05:31.200 --> 0:05:35.800
<v Speaker 2>So we made a record on this artist named Shelley Fairchild,

0:05:36.160 --> 0:05:39.080
<v Speaker 2>and Buddy and I hit it off, and he liked

0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:43.200
<v Speaker 2>my playing, and probably in the fall, he said, what

0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:46.400
<v Speaker 2>doul come and play on this Chesney record that I'm

0:05:46.400 --> 0:05:50.520
<v Speaker 2>working on. So I went into a studio and did

0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:53.240
<v Speaker 2>one day, and then I did another day, and then

0:05:53.279 --> 0:05:55.919
<v Speaker 2>they had me on a tracking day and I was

0:05:55.960 --> 0:05:58.960
<v Speaker 2>sort of in the band then, I mean not on

0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:01.040
<v Speaker 2>the road in the band, but I was in the

0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.119
<v Speaker 2>studio band, and we just hit it off right away.

0:06:04.240 --> 0:06:07.159
<v Speaker 2>So I was fortunate to have that opportunity.

0:06:07.279 --> 0:06:11.200
<v Speaker 1>Now in the ensuing years, when Kenny goes to make

0:06:11.240 --> 0:06:14.480
<v Speaker 1>a record, how involved are you in making a record

0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:17.720
<v Speaker 1>with Kenny?

0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:22.520
<v Speaker 2>I usually play on the tracking date. The tracking date

0:06:22.560 --> 0:06:25.599
<v Speaker 2>for those listeners that don't know, that's when you lay

0:06:25.640 --> 0:06:29.160
<v Speaker 2>the foundation. Sometimes it's the whole song. Sometimes it's just

0:06:29.279 --> 0:06:33.800
<v Speaker 2>the sort of rhythm track, basic foundation, And I'm usually

0:06:33.839 --> 0:06:38.600
<v Speaker 2>there and I'm usually the leader and help arrange the songs.

0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:49.480
<v Speaker 2>And but I will say that it's really his thing.

0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean more and more as the years have gone

0:06:51.960 --> 0:06:55.440
<v Speaker 2>by and he's become more confident in his record making.

0:06:56.160 --> 0:06:59.200
<v Speaker 2>It is really his vision. I mean, he is is

0:06:59.240 --> 0:07:02.919
<v Speaker 2>a guy who's like it's like not to digress. But

0:07:03.000 --> 0:07:05.760
<v Speaker 2>when you play live with him, it's loose, it's fun.

0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:09.880
<v Speaker 2>We jam, songs are extended. He throws out stuff at

0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.200
<v Speaker 2>the last minute when we're in the studio, especially now,

0:07:13.440 --> 0:07:18.480
<v Speaker 2>it's very very much his vision and very controlled, and

0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:20.240
<v Speaker 2>this is what I want and this is how I

0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:23.160
<v Speaker 2>want it to sound. And then he'll actually sing me

0:07:23.280 --> 0:07:25.920
<v Speaker 2>the parts that he wants me to play. So I

0:07:25.960 --> 0:07:30.400
<v Speaker 2>will say that it just answers your question. It's I'm

0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:35.440
<v Speaker 2>pretty involved in playing. But it is really his vision.

0:07:36.480 --> 0:07:39.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, he say show up in the studio on

0:07:39.480 --> 0:07:41.880
<v Speaker 1>Wednesday and then sing you the parts, or will he

0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:43.520
<v Speaker 1>send you the material in advance?

0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:47.800
<v Speaker 2>He sends me the songs him or Buddy Cannon send

0:07:47.800 --> 0:07:49.280
<v Speaker 2>me the songs a couple of days before, and then

0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I make a chart and make the Nashville number chart.

0:07:52.720 --> 0:07:54.600
<v Speaker 2>And so I've heard the songs and I have an

0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:59.600
<v Speaker 2>idea in my head about what everybody ought to play

0:07:59.680 --> 0:08:02.840
<v Speaker 2>and maybe what we ought to do. And then we

0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:05.360
<v Speaker 2>all get in the room and it's usually a fairly

0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:08.240
<v Speaker 2>good sized band, and a lot of the band is

0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.720
<v Speaker 2>his roadband, because he's got a great band now, so

0:08:11.240 --> 0:08:13.920
<v Speaker 2>his road it's a good part of his roadband is

0:08:13.920 --> 0:08:17.280
<v Speaker 2>in the studio as well. And we go in and

0:08:17.320 --> 0:08:19.480
<v Speaker 2>we listen down to the song and we all hold

0:08:19.480 --> 0:08:22.160
<v Speaker 2>our charts and the players and this is standard stuff,

0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.640
<v Speaker 2>and the players have all heard it for the first time,

0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:30.800
<v Speaker 2>and we listen down and Chesney says, I hate what

0:08:30.840 --> 0:08:34.040
<v Speaker 2>they're doing on the intro. Do not do that. After

0:08:34.120 --> 0:08:36.640
<v Speaker 2>I learned the intro overnight, you know, I got to

0:08:36.679 --> 0:08:38.240
<v Speaker 2>learn how to play the intro. I learned the intro.

0:08:38.320 --> 0:08:40.319
<v Speaker 2>And he goes, I hate the intro. Don't do that.

0:08:40.679 --> 0:08:43.760
<v Speaker 2>So then we'll come up with a new intro, or

0:08:43.840 --> 0:08:46.960
<v Speaker 2>we'll just lay a bed and he'll say, I want

0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:48.840
<v Speaker 2>to think about the intro. I'm going to come back

0:08:48.880 --> 0:08:51.480
<v Speaker 2>to you with my idea when we overdub of what

0:08:51.520 --> 0:08:54.440
<v Speaker 2>I think that intro should be. He really likes to

0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:59.360
<v Speaker 2>take a basic track and think about what he wants today.

0:08:59.360 --> 0:09:05.640
<v Speaker 2>He's very thought and it is really really his vision

0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:08.839
<v Speaker 2>of how he wants the songs to be. Whereas when

0:09:08.840 --> 0:09:12.160
<v Speaker 2>I first started recording with him, which is sort of

0:09:12.160 --> 0:09:17.480
<v Speaker 2>the era of Heman Ways Whiskey and Living in Fast

0:09:17.559 --> 0:09:21.000
<v Speaker 2>Forward and some of those kind of stadium rock songs,

0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.400
<v Speaker 2>it's pretty loose. I mean, we just go in there

0:09:23.440 --> 0:09:28.000
<v Speaker 2>and jam and play live solos, and that's kind of

0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:31.200
<v Speaker 2>the way those records are. He doesn't do that as

0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:36.840
<v Speaker 2>much anymore. He's kind of more thoughtful about how he

0:09:36.880 --> 0:09:38.800
<v Speaker 2>wants to do it. And you know, really, for better

0:09:38.920 --> 0:09:42.360
<v Speaker 2>or worse, as an artist, he's changing and he's doing

0:09:42.400 --> 0:09:44.240
<v Speaker 2>different things, and it's probably a good thing.

0:09:45.200 --> 0:09:50.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay. He originally worked with Barry Beckett, famous and Muscle Sholes,

0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:52.600
<v Speaker 1>and then he went to work with Buddy. He's been

0:09:52.640 --> 0:09:56.960
<v Speaker 1>working Buddy for eons. Now, what's Buddy's special sauce.

0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:04.640
<v Speaker 2>Buddy is he is really like he's with Kenny because

0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:08.320
<v Speaker 2>Kenny is so hands on and such a song guy

0:10:09.040 --> 0:10:11.600
<v Speaker 2>that Buddy just kind of sits at the back of

0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:15.240
<v Speaker 2>the room and it doesn't say much and Buddy and

0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:17.439
<v Speaker 2>Kenny comes in and goes, Hey, the intro, this is

0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:19.240
<v Speaker 2>what I want to do. There's and we start, and

0:10:19.240 --> 0:10:21.400
<v Speaker 2>we go and we start to record the song, and

0:10:21.520 --> 0:10:23.960
<v Speaker 2>Buddy hits the talk back and he's got this sort

0:10:24.000 --> 0:10:27.360
<v Speaker 2>of southern drawl, kind of a slow talking guy, and

0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:31.560
<v Speaker 2>he goes like it's too fast, and then and we go, oh,

0:10:31.840 --> 0:10:34.320
<v Speaker 2>it's too fast, and he's right, and then we slow

0:10:34.360 --> 0:10:36.720
<v Speaker 2>it down and then we start to record it, and

0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:40.520
<v Speaker 2>then he'll say he'll say, Kenny, this isn't a great

0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:43.440
<v Speaker 2>key for your voice. We need to we need to

0:10:43.520 --> 0:10:45.560
<v Speaker 2>change the key. So we'll try and change the key.

0:10:45.640 --> 0:10:49.440
<v Speaker 2>So Buddy just sort of direct from the back, and

0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:53.880
<v Speaker 2>he doesn't have an ego. He's very cool about stuff.

0:10:54.360 --> 0:10:57.520
<v Speaker 2>You can't piss the guy off. He's just gonna sit

0:10:57.600 --> 0:11:01.000
<v Speaker 2>back there, and but he has really really great things

0:11:01.040 --> 0:11:06.559
<v Speaker 2>to say. That's sort of how he's not a I'll

0:11:06.600 --> 0:11:11.400
<v Speaker 2>put it this way. You're not gonna spend hours moving

0:11:11.440 --> 0:11:16.679
<v Speaker 2>around microphones on guitar cabinets with Buddy. He doesn't care

0:11:16.720 --> 0:11:19.280
<v Speaker 2>about that. He's more of the big picture guy.

0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:25.960
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Some people Jimmy Iavin famous for being on the

0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:29.920
<v Speaker 1>phone while he's producing records. Rick Rubin, you know, is

0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.840
<v Speaker 1>constantly telling the band to do things by themselves. Where

0:11:32.840 --> 0:11:36.160
<v Speaker 1>he shows up is Buddy there paying attention the whole time.

0:11:36.440 --> 0:11:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely, he's paying attention. He's sitting in the back of

0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:43.000
<v Speaker 2>the room. He's actually he's the first guy there and

0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:44.640
<v Speaker 2>he's sitting in the back of the room. He's got

0:11:44.640 --> 0:11:47.679
<v Speaker 2>an assistant that's always there with him. He is very

0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:51.080
<v Speaker 2>much paying attention. He's not on I've never seen him

0:11:51.120 --> 0:11:53.520
<v Speaker 2>on the phone, you know, he just sort of sits

0:11:53.559 --> 0:11:57.480
<v Speaker 2>back there. And yeah, he's also been making the Willie

0:11:57.559 --> 0:12:00.720
<v Speaker 2>Nelson records for a long time. He's he's been making

0:12:00.720 --> 0:12:01.600
<v Speaker 2>all those records.

0:12:03.920 --> 0:12:07.680
<v Speaker 1>Have you worked with Buddy on anybody else at this one? Yeah?

0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:12.160
<v Speaker 2>I worked on a Willie Nelson record. I worked on

0:12:12.240 --> 0:12:17.200
<v Speaker 2>a Jamie Johnson record, a couple other things. He's brought

0:12:17.200 --> 0:12:20.040
<v Speaker 2>me into overdub on just on and off. Yeah, I

0:12:20.160 --> 0:12:22.680
<v Speaker 2>work with the Willie record I worked on. It was

0:12:22.720 --> 0:12:23.199
<v Speaker 2>really fun.

0:12:24.600 --> 0:12:26.800
<v Speaker 1>So what's the style of making a Willie record?

0:12:31.000 --> 0:12:34.000
<v Speaker 2>It was more loose and let's move fast. There was

0:12:34.080 --> 0:12:35.960
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people there, a lot of people in

0:12:36.000 --> 0:12:39.480
<v Speaker 2>the control room. His bus was parked out back. Everybody

0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:41.679
<v Speaker 2>wanted to go on the bus and smoke pot is.

0:12:42.000 --> 0:12:42.280
<v Speaker 1>It was.

0:12:42.480 --> 0:12:46.400
<v Speaker 2>It was a kind of a circus. And but my

0:12:46.520 --> 0:12:50.880
<v Speaker 2>great experience with that record. I've played on a couple

0:12:50.920 --> 0:12:53.040
<v Speaker 2>of his records, but on the record that Buddy did

0:12:54.840 --> 0:12:59.600
<v Speaker 2>we cut on my birthday. We cut got to Serve Somebody,

0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.839
<v Speaker 2>And so I didn't tell I didn't say it's my

0:13:03.880 --> 0:13:05.800
<v Speaker 2>birthday because I didn't want the whole thing where they

0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:07.880
<v Speaker 2>give me the cake and you know, so I just

0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:13.760
<v Speaker 2>I'm just thinking, this is freaking amazing. I'm playing with Willie.

0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:16.800
<v Speaker 2>I can see him in the vocal booth across the studio,

0:13:17.440 --> 0:13:19.480
<v Speaker 2>and we're playing got to Serve Somebody, which I love

0:13:19.520 --> 0:13:22.600
<v Speaker 2>that song. I mean, it's so and so we're playing

0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:25.000
<v Speaker 2>that song. But my story about it is is that

0:13:26.240 --> 0:13:28.679
<v Speaker 2>so we do two or three takes and Willie's playing

0:13:28.720 --> 0:13:31.480
<v Speaker 2>his guitar the way he plays guitar, and he plays

0:13:31.520 --> 0:13:35.720
<v Speaker 2>through this weird old Baldwin amp and it I don't

0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:38.199
<v Speaker 2>think there's a ground on the plug, and the radio

0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:40.959
<v Speaker 2>station was coming through and they were having trouble with

0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:43.960
<v Speaker 2>the amput. But we're cutting the song and his amp's

0:13:44.160 --> 0:13:45.959
<v Speaker 2>kind of kind of noisy, but he's playing the way

0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:46.360
<v Speaker 2>he plays.

0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:47.079
<v Speaker 1>It's great.

0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:49.920
<v Speaker 2>It's Willie Nelson. So we cut Serve Somebody and we

0:13:50.000 --> 0:13:53.040
<v Speaker 2>get into the oultro of the song, and a lot

0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.719
<v Speaker 2>of times in the studio, on the outro, which is

0:13:56.760 --> 0:14:00.160
<v Speaker 2>the end part of song, you can kind of jam

0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:02.640
<v Speaker 2>stretch out and they'll edit that out or do what

0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:04.719
<v Speaker 2>they want to do, but it's always fun for us

0:14:04.720 --> 0:14:07.559
<v Speaker 2>to do. So we're cutting surf somebody. We get to

0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:09.960
<v Speaker 2>the end of the song and Willie plays a little

0:14:10.000 --> 0:14:12.880
<v Speaker 2>bit and then I answer him, and then he plays

0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.520
<v Speaker 2>a little bit, and so we're having this conversation and

0:14:15.559 --> 0:14:19.680
<v Speaker 2>we're playing and I'm thinking to myself, it's my birthday.

0:14:19.960 --> 0:14:23.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm trading licks with Willie. He's playing Trigger, the famous guitar.

0:14:24.400 --> 0:14:30.120
<v Speaker 2>This is freaking amazing. And I was so excited and

0:14:30.480 --> 0:14:32.800
<v Speaker 2>and and I knew that his part was a little

0:14:32.920 --> 0:14:36.640
<v Speaker 2>rough in his amp was making some noises, but who cares,

0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:36.920
<v Speaker 2>you know.

0:14:37.360 --> 0:14:37.760
<v Speaker 1>And so.

0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:41.840
<v Speaker 2>I get the record and they replaced it with Jim

0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Horn on sacks on the outro. So so our little

0:14:48.080 --> 0:14:52.040
<v Speaker 2>conversation we had is gone, and they've got this wailing

0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:54.320
<v Speaker 2>sax solo, which was really great, you know. I mean,

0:14:54.400 --> 0:14:57.120
<v Speaker 2>Jim Horn is he's Jim Horn, you know that played

0:14:57.120 --> 0:14:59.360
<v Speaker 2>on all those great records, and it was it was great.

0:14:59.360 --> 0:15:02.760
<v Speaker 2>But I was like, oh man, you know, so that's

0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:04.600
<v Speaker 2>that's my story from that record.

0:15:05.800 --> 0:15:11.080
<v Speaker 1>I mean, Baldman was a piano maker that made amplifiers

0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 1>for like ten minutes. At the end of the sixties

0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:14.720
<v Speaker 1>early seventies.

0:15:15.160 --> 0:15:18.800
<v Speaker 2>They make this big, tall solid state amplifier called the

0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:23.440
<v Speaker 2>Baldwin Exterminator. And if you see Neil Young play, he

0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.920
<v Speaker 2>has a couple of old Vinage Fender amps. He's got

0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:29.240
<v Speaker 2>these pile of amps he plays through live, and in

0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.600
<v Speaker 2>the middle of it, he's got a Baldwin exterminator and

0:15:32.680 --> 0:15:37.280
<v Speaker 2>it has a very particular, weird solid state sound. But

0:15:37.400 --> 0:15:44.080
<v Speaker 2>for whatever reason, Willie with his very unusual classical guitar,

0:15:44.760 --> 0:15:47.280
<v Speaker 2>gut string guitar, it's got a mic in it. That's

0:15:47.280 --> 0:15:50.280
<v Speaker 2>the empty plays through. I think, I mean, I guess

0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:52.920
<v Speaker 2>that's the ampies always played through. I don't know, you know,

0:15:53.400 --> 0:15:54.320
<v Speaker 2>but that's what he had.

0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:57.720
<v Speaker 1>So he plays the same guitar he plays with live

0:15:57.760 --> 0:15:59.760
<v Speaker 1>with a hole in it. That's what he records with.

0:16:00.040 --> 0:16:04.240
<v Speaker 2>That's what he records with, that same guitar, and it

0:16:04.320 --> 0:16:05.520
<v Speaker 2>was just it's amazing.

0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:10.840
<v Speaker 1>Let's go back. You talk about creating a chart. Tell

0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:13.480
<v Speaker 1>my audience for those who don't know about creating a chart.

0:16:15.360 --> 0:16:19.880
<v Speaker 2>A chart is it's really you know. I think if

0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 2>you were in a on a string session in la

0:16:23.760 --> 0:16:29.080
<v Speaker 2>you would get a transcription with the notes and a

0:16:29.120 --> 0:16:31.600
<v Speaker 2>full score that you would read off of, and you

0:16:31.600 --> 0:16:33.880
<v Speaker 2>would find the guitar part and play those notes, and

0:16:33.920 --> 0:16:36.280
<v Speaker 2>you would read those notes. We don't really do that

0:16:36.360 --> 0:16:38.840
<v Speaker 2>in Nashville. What we do is they have a thing

0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:44.200
<v Speaker 2>called the number system, and each like, if you're in

0:16:44.200 --> 0:16:47.200
<v Speaker 2>the key of C, a C is a one, a

0:16:47.280 --> 0:16:50.080
<v Speaker 2>D minor is a two with a with a negative

0:16:50.120 --> 0:16:54.880
<v Speaker 2>sign next to it, and you do a little bit

0:16:54.880 --> 0:16:58.640
<v Speaker 2>of transcription in the case of where you might notate

0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:00.920
<v Speaker 2>above it that you're going to one measure, you're going

0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:03.640
<v Speaker 2>to play a one chord and a two minor, but

0:17:03.760 --> 0:17:06.720
<v Speaker 2>the two minor starts on the two and and you'll

0:17:06.720 --> 0:17:09.159
<v Speaker 2>make a little notation of the notes above it. And

0:17:09.200 --> 0:17:12.000
<v Speaker 2>so everybody knows how to read a little bit. But

0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:18.520
<v Speaker 2>the reason that my understanding of the reason why the

0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Nashville number system came into being because country music and

0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:32.720
<v Speaker 2>acoustic music uses acoustic instruments. If you change or even

0:17:32.720 --> 0:17:34.960
<v Speaker 2>forget about that, if you just change the key, if

0:17:35.000 --> 0:17:37.920
<v Speaker 2>you do it once and the singer goes, oh, it's

0:17:37.960 --> 0:17:40.080
<v Speaker 2>too high. So you're in the key of D, so

0:17:40.119 --> 0:17:43.680
<v Speaker 2>you got so you go down to you go down

0:17:43.760 --> 0:17:48.280
<v Speaker 2>to B flat. Well all the all the names of

0:17:48.280 --> 0:17:50.840
<v Speaker 2>the chords have changed, but if you use the number system,

0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:54.119
<v Speaker 2>it's just the intervals of the chords, so the numbers

0:17:54.160 --> 0:17:56.960
<v Speaker 2>stay the same. So you read the same chart. Does

0:17:57.000 --> 0:17:58.080
<v Speaker 2>that make sense what I'm saying?

0:17:58.720 --> 0:18:01.560
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's.

0:18:01.119 --> 0:18:07.399
<v Speaker 2>That's And also because guitar players use KPO's, so the

0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.800
<v Speaker 2>song might be in G, but you may kpo up

0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:14.040
<v Speaker 2>three frets and you're playing out of E, and so

0:18:14.640 --> 0:18:16.800
<v Speaker 2>you're looking at the guitar and you're playing an E chord,

0:18:17.960 --> 0:18:20.080
<v Speaker 2>but it's really a G chord. But if you if

0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.360
<v Speaker 2>it's just a one, if the song's in the key

0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.880
<v Speaker 2>of G, it's just a one. No matter where you are,

0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:27.560
<v Speaker 2>it's just a it's a It simplifies things and it

0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:31.560
<v Speaker 2>makes it easy to adapt and change.

0:18:32.880 --> 0:18:35.800
<v Speaker 1>Let's go back to the road as we're jumping around here.

0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:38.080
<v Speaker 1>You know, you talk to a lot of artists. They

0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:41.760
<v Speaker 1>love the hour two on stage and the rest of

0:18:41.800 --> 0:18:44.080
<v Speaker 1>the time is dreadful. What's it like for you?

0:18:48.720 --> 0:18:52.960
<v Speaker 2>It's you know, I have to say, you know, I

0:18:53.000 --> 0:18:55.920
<v Speaker 2>didn't really start to tour. Until I was in my fifties,

0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.000
<v Speaker 2>I just was always playing club gigs or I would

0:18:59.000 --> 0:19:02.639
<v Speaker 2>occasionally do a one off with somebody in a large

0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:07.000
<v Speaker 2>hall or something, but I was never really and when

0:19:07.000 --> 0:19:08.480
<v Speaker 2>I was really young, I was on the road in

0:19:08.520 --> 0:19:10.800
<v Speaker 2>the van, but that's different. I was in my twenties

0:19:10.800 --> 0:19:17.280
<v Speaker 2>and that's a whole other thing. But my experience with

0:19:17.320 --> 0:19:20.840
<v Speaker 2>Bob c Or We're out for three months, and it

0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:27.359
<v Speaker 2>was difficult for me on the days off because it

0:19:27.400 --> 0:19:31.440
<v Speaker 2>was my first time doing that, and I didn't enjoy

0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:35.760
<v Speaker 2>it was fun being in Pittsburgh for three days in

0:19:36.119 --> 0:19:41.600
<v Speaker 2>exploring the city and whatever, but I didn't like playing

0:19:41.600 --> 0:19:44.480
<v Speaker 2>a gig having two days off. Playing a gig having

0:19:44.800 --> 0:19:47.560
<v Speaker 2>two days off, that was foreign to me because I

0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.879
<v Speaker 2>hadn't done that in a long time and when I

0:19:50.920 --> 0:19:53.000
<v Speaker 2>was a kid on the road playing gigs, we were

0:19:53.040 --> 0:19:58.960
<v Speaker 2>played every night. So for me, I didn't really love that,

0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:01.480
<v Speaker 2>but I adapted to to it and actually had a

0:20:01.480 --> 0:20:06.040
<v Speaker 2>great time because the gigs were just so incredible. I mean,

0:20:06.080 --> 0:20:09.280
<v Speaker 2>playing with Bob is just like, this was incredible. It's

0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.640
<v Speaker 2>a great experience. So it was all new. But then

0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.600
<v Speaker 2>I went right from that to Chesney, which is you're

0:20:16.680 --> 0:20:19.480
<v Speaker 2>either out Friday and Saturday and then you come right back,

0:20:19.560 --> 0:20:22.320
<v Speaker 2>or you're out Thursday through Saturday and you come right back.

0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.080
<v Speaker 2>So it's I really love it.

0:20:33.200 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So if you go out and come back, everybody

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:40.440
<v Speaker 1>fly on the same plane. Or does can he take

0:20:40.480 --> 0:20:41.680
<v Speaker 1>his own transportation?

0:20:42.160 --> 0:20:45.439
<v Speaker 2>Well, he's got his own plane, so and he's got

0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:48.240
<v Speaker 2>a full time crew. And so the way it works.

0:20:49.320 --> 0:20:52.080
<v Speaker 2>When I first went out with him, he was pretty

0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:57.959
<v Speaker 2>separate from us, and we would either take a bus

0:20:58.840 --> 0:21:01.400
<v Speaker 2>and the band has her own vie and his organization

0:21:01.520 --> 0:21:04.040
<v Speaker 2>is so big, it's like a hundred people. So you

0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:09.720
<v Speaker 2>have this army of buses and the band has her

0:21:09.760 --> 0:21:13.320
<v Speaker 2>own bus. It's a very comfortable and nice bus. Or

0:21:13.359 --> 0:21:14.960
<v Speaker 2>if we were going to the West coast, we'd fly

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:18.719
<v Speaker 2>and we'd fly out Southwest or American or whatever. In

0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:22.439
<v Speaker 2>the last four years, since the pandemic, we have a

0:21:22.480 --> 0:21:25.880
<v Speaker 2>newer band, and I mean his other band. His old

0:21:25.880 --> 0:21:29.560
<v Speaker 2>band was great. It was kind of more of a

0:21:30.160 --> 0:21:33.760
<v Speaker 2>for lack of a better word, like a country rock

0:21:33.880 --> 0:21:37.280
<v Speaker 2>bar band, which was really fun and there were great guys,

0:21:37.320 --> 0:21:39.280
<v Speaker 2>but they were guys he had come up with, but

0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.600
<v Speaker 2>he was sort of separate from them and they weren't

0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:46.560
<v Speaker 2>studio guys, and now the band is more he feels like,

0:21:47.520 --> 0:21:49.840
<v Speaker 2>in my mind, I think he feels like we're more

0:21:49.960 --> 0:21:52.600
<v Speaker 2>his equals or something. I'm not sure if that's the

0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:54.960
<v Speaker 2>right way to say, but what I'm getting around to

0:21:55.040 --> 0:21:57.560
<v Speaker 2>saying is that we'll fly on his plane. Some of

0:21:57.640 --> 0:22:00.600
<v Speaker 2>the time. He'll call and say, hey, guys, let's it'll

0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:03.000
<v Speaker 2>call the band and say, do you guys ride with me?

0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:07.760
<v Speaker 2>So we'll jump on the plane and ride to Pittsburgh.

0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:09.840
<v Speaker 2>We'll leave it four in the afternoon and get there

0:22:09.880 --> 0:22:12.840
<v Speaker 2>at seven, zip over and play the gig, get back

0:22:12.880 --> 0:22:16.639
<v Speaker 2>on the plane and be home at one in the morning.

0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:21.159
<v Speaker 2>And that's that's a that is a luxury. And so

0:22:21.200 --> 0:22:24.560
<v Speaker 2>we do that sometimes and it's great because we have

0:22:24.600 --> 0:22:29.320
<v Speaker 2>great conversations and we talk about recording and what we

0:22:29.400 --> 0:22:32.679
<v Speaker 2>want to work on, and everybody's in it together. But

0:22:32.760 --> 0:22:35.120
<v Speaker 2>then sometimes we're on the bus and I don't mind

0:22:35.160 --> 0:22:37.040
<v Speaker 2>the bus. I actually like the bus. I think the

0:22:37.160 --> 0:22:43.440
<v Speaker 2>thing I like the least is flying commercial. That's it's

0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:43.880
<v Speaker 2>just hard.

0:22:46.280 --> 0:22:50.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay. When you do have downtime, how do you entertain yourself?

0:22:53.920 --> 0:22:57.240
<v Speaker 2>I do yoga, I like to work out, and then

0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:01.120
<v Speaker 2>I have a traveling pro tools rig and whatever records

0:23:01.160 --> 0:23:05.199
<v Speaker 2>that I'm working on, or songs that I'm writing, or

0:23:05.240 --> 0:23:08.480
<v Speaker 2>whatever i'm doing. I'll set up my stuff in my

0:23:08.560 --> 0:23:15.040
<v Speaker 2>hotel room and work. And there's something about being in

0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:19.879
<v Speaker 2>a hotel room where I'm not distracted. I'm not going

0:23:19.920 --> 0:23:21.480
<v Speaker 2>to take a break and go up and hang out

0:23:21.520 --> 0:23:25.520
<v Speaker 2>with my wife or run up to the store or something.

0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:28.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm just there. I get a lot of work done

0:23:28.880 --> 0:23:31.359
<v Speaker 2>and actually really like that. And the other guys in

0:23:31.400 --> 0:23:33.199
<v Speaker 2>the band all do the same thing. We all do

0:23:33.240 --> 0:23:34.919
<v Speaker 2>the same thing. We're all in our rooms with our

0:23:34.960 --> 0:23:37.439
<v Speaker 2>pro tools, rigs, And I think if you talk to

0:23:37.520 --> 0:23:40.680
<v Speaker 2>most bands on the road, a lot of the guys

0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:45.600
<v Speaker 2>will say, yep, I've got my ableton or my logic

0:23:45.800 --> 0:23:48.800
<v Speaker 2>or whatever they use. It's on my laptop and I'm

0:23:48.800 --> 0:23:51.560
<v Speaker 2>in my room and I'm working on stuff. So there's

0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:53.040
<v Speaker 2>a lot they can do during the day.

0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:57.399
<v Speaker 1>Well, in the old days, if you're doing twenty six

0:23:57.520 --> 0:24:02.399
<v Speaker 1>dates in thirty days, you were burnt crisp on both ends,

0:24:03.160 --> 0:24:06.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, So when you want to work today, you know,

0:24:07.040 --> 0:24:10.119
<v Speaker 1>are you awake enough for being a musician? You can

0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:11.800
<v Speaker 1>run on empty? How does it work?

0:24:12.720 --> 0:24:15.280
<v Speaker 2>I go to bed early. I'm gonna go to bed.

0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:19.040
<v Speaker 2>And really, I almost hate to say this, it's almost embarrassing,

0:24:19.119 --> 0:24:24.320
<v Speaker 2>but the when we play and we get done in eleven,

0:24:24.359 --> 0:24:26.840
<v Speaker 2>we play like from nine to eleven, kind of sort

0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:29.840
<v Speaker 2>of somewhere in there, and then by the time you're

0:24:29.880 --> 0:24:34.160
<v Speaker 2>back at your hotel room or whatever you're doing, it's midnight.

0:24:34.359 --> 0:24:37.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's usually the latest time ever up. And

0:24:37.240 --> 0:24:39.480
<v Speaker 2>I still get up early, but most of the time

0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:42.439
<v Speaker 2>I go to bed early, and I get up really early,

0:24:42.880 --> 0:24:45.080
<v Speaker 2>and I get a lot done in the morning. That's

0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:46.920
<v Speaker 2>and if I need to, I take a nap in

0:24:46.960 --> 0:24:47.600
<v Speaker 2>the afternoon.

0:24:49.359 --> 0:24:54.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you know, Canny sometimes play stadiums, sometimes play sheds,

0:24:54.920 --> 0:24:58.959
<v Speaker 1>as big a building as he wants. You're there, you're performing,

0:24:59.000 --> 0:25:01.280
<v Speaker 1>and it is a perform it's in front of fifty

0:25:01.320 --> 0:25:04.800
<v Speaker 1>thousand people. How do you calm down in an hour

0:25:04.960 --> 0:25:06.119
<v Speaker 1>such a you can go to sleep.

0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:12.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how to answer that, and I don't

0:25:13.000 --> 0:25:20.359
<v Speaker 2>really ever think about it. There's something about playing his gig,

0:25:22.000 --> 0:25:25.399
<v Speaker 2>and it's kind of different than other gigs. I don't

0:25:25.640 --> 0:25:29.680
<v Speaker 2>know how to answer this exactly. It's I'm in it's exciting,

0:25:29.720 --> 0:25:31.679
<v Speaker 2>and you run around and there's tons of people and

0:25:31.720 --> 0:25:37.720
<v Speaker 2>it's very very loud, you know, and it's but it's

0:25:37.840 --> 0:25:41.800
<v Speaker 2>there's this weird I'm kind of relaxed doing it. I

0:25:41.920 --> 0:25:45.680
<v Speaker 2>enjoy it so much. And if I'm having a good night,

0:25:47.119 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 2>I do this mindfulness. It's the meditation that I do.

0:25:52.520 --> 0:25:55.040
<v Speaker 2>And if I'm having a good night, I can get

0:25:55.040 --> 0:25:58.879
<v Speaker 2>into mindfulness while I'm playing, and I just sort of

0:25:58.960 --> 0:26:05.720
<v Speaker 2>stop thinking and just play, and it's this very relaxing

0:26:05.760 --> 0:26:07.439
<v Speaker 2>and I just look out at all the people and

0:26:07.480 --> 0:26:10.399
<v Speaker 2>all the lights, and I'm a side man. I'm over

0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:12.399
<v Speaker 2>on the side, even though I get to step out

0:26:12.440 --> 0:26:14.560
<v Speaker 2>and plate, so all those and stuff, I'm a side man,

0:26:14.800 --> 0:26:18.160
<v Speaker 2>and so I can sort of watch the world from

0:26:18.200 --> 0:26:20.879
<v Speaker 2>my little side of the stage and look at all

0:26:20.920 --> 0:26:24.639
<v Speaker 2>the people and all the crazy shit they're doing. Or

0:26:24.680 --> 0:26:28.679
<v Speaker 2>if we're outdoors the lights at a festival, you know,

0:26:30.040 --> 0:26:34.040
<v Speaker 2>and if I'm in a good place, which isn't every night,

0:26:34.400 --> 0:26:37.760
<v Speaker 2>but when i am, I get into this mindfulness thing

0:26:38.680 --> 0:26:45.080
<v Speaker 2>where I just play and that's a really great place

0:26:45.160 --> 0:26:47.439
<v Speaker 2>to be. And then when I get done, I'm not

0:26:49.600 --> 0:26:52.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm not stressed or i'm not jazzed. I'm just sort

0:26:52.400 --> 0:26:55.280
<v Speaker 2>of relaxed. And it's easy for me to either get

0:26:55.280 --> 0:26:57.639
<v Speaker 2>on the bus. I'm usually the first one to sleep

0:26:57.680 --> 0:27:01.960
<v Speaker 2>on the bus. I'm also way older than everybody else,

0:27:02.000 --> 0:27:03.240
<v Speaker 2>but it's like I can.

0:27:03.880 --> 0:27:04.879
<v Speaker 1>I could just get.

0:27:04.840 --> 0:27:11.200
<v Speaker 2>On the bus, have a whatever, coconut water because I

0:27:11.240 --> 0:27:14.520
<v Speaker 2>don't drink, and go to sleep.

0:27:16.359 --> 0:27:18.800
<v Speaker 1>Tell me more about mindfulness and how you get in

0:27:18.800 --> 0:27:22.480
<v Speaker 1>that zone.

0:27:22.680 --> 0:27:26.720
<v Speaker 2>It's it's a discipline and I move in and out

0:27:26.760 --> 0:27:31.840
<v Speaker 2>of it, and it's like a meditation practice and it's

0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:34.240
<v Speaker 2>a Buddhist thing that it started that way. But there's

0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:38.160
<v Speaker 2>tons of mindfulness apps, Like Sam Harris has a great app.

0:27:38.240 --> 0:27:41.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm a big Sam Harris fan, and he has a

0:27:41.520 --> 0:27:48.000
<v Speaker 2>daily meditation that's very mindfulness based. And there's also ten

0:27:48.040 --> 0:27:51.840
<v Speaker 2>percent Happier, which is also a great app. And that

0:27:51.920 --> 0:27:53.720
<v Speaker 2>the guy that has that app is the guy that

0:27:53.920 --> 0:27:57.400
<v Speaker 2>was a he was a newscaster. I can't remember his name,

0:27:57.480 --> 0:28:03.760
<v Speaker 2>but it's his app. And you just try to stop

0:28:05.200 --> 0:28:08.440
<v Speaker 2>your mind from going on the treadmill and thinking about

0:28:08.440 --> 0:28:10.200
<v Speaker 2>what I gotta do tomorrow, what just happened, what do

0:28:10.200 --> 0:28:14.040
<v Speaker 2>I regret, what do I wish happen? You know, you

0:28:14.160 --> 0:28:16.399
<v Speaker 2>just sort of let that go and I find that

0:28:16.480 --> 0:28:20.400
<v Speaker 2>I play my best when I stopped thinking and there's

0:28:20.440 --> 0:28:24.639
<v Speaker 2>a there's a mindfulness expert named George Mumford. Have you

0:28:24.680 --> 0:28:28.399
<v Speaker 2>ever heard of him? He no, he has a book

0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:32.000
<v Speaker 2>out and he was he's a sports guy and he

0:28:32.560 --> 0:28:34.720
<v Speaker 2>with Michael Jordan was the first guy I did it

0:28:34.720 --> 0:28:39.080
<v Speaker 2>with was Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan's thing on the court

0:28:39.480 --> 0:28:44.960
<v Speaker 2>was mindfulness and talked to him by George Mumford. And

0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:48.720
<v Speaker 2>so what he did was it was the same thing

0:28:48.880 --> 0:28:53.600
<v Speaker 2>where you stop thinking, you forget about the people out there.

0:28:53.640 --> 0:28:55.360
<v Speaker 2>I mean they're still there and you still see him,

0:28:55.680 --> 0:28:59.400
<v Speaker 2>but you just let go and you play your best.

0:28:59.840 --> 0:29:04.600
<v Speaker 2>And he also worked with Kobe and a couple of

0:29:04.640 --> 0:29:07.040
<v Speaker 2>other people, but he was a he works with sports

0:29:07.040 --> 0:29:10.600
<v Speaker 2>people and gets them. It's sort of a way to

0:29:10.720 --> 0:29:15.280
<v Speaker 2>unstress and to play their best. So I find in

0:29:15.400 --> 0:29:18.960
<v Speaker 2>playing music as far as performing and actually in the

0:29:18.960 --> 0:29:22.280
<v Speaker 2>studio sometimes too, if I can shut off the noise

0:29:23.240 --> 0:29:25.880
<v Speaker 2>and just and it doesn't always work. There's some days

0:29:25.880 --> 0:29:28.800
<v Speaker 2>where you just you can't shut it off. You know,

0:29:28.840 --> 0:29:31.239
<v Speaker 2>there's stuff you're thinking about, or you got to do

0:29:31.280 --> 0:29:34.280
<v Speaker 2>something tomorrow and you're stuck thinking about it. But if

0:29:34.320 --> 0:29:35.920
<v Speaker 2>I or are you thinking about yourself?

0:29:36.000 --> 0:29:36.640
<v Speaker 1>Do they like me?

0:29:36.760 --> 0:29:38.800
<v Speaker 2>Do they not? Like me. Do they like what I played?

0:29:38.840 --> 0:29:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Do they not like what I played?

0:29:41.080 --> 0:29:41.280
<v Speaker 1>You know?

0:29:41.520 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 2>But if you can stop that and just let go,

0:29:47.320 --> 0:29:51.560
<v Speaker 2>you're still aware. I play my best that way, So

0:29:51.680 --> 0:29:56.760
<v Speaker 2>playing gigs, I play my best when I do that.

0:29:58.520 --> 0:30:02.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, how do you avoid making mistakes when you're playing live?

0:30:05.840 --> 0:30:10.239
<v Speaker 2>Practice? For me, I'm a big practicer. I get up

0:30:10.240 --> 0:30:13.800
<v Speaker 2>in the morning and I practice every morning. And if

0:30:13.800 --> 0:30:18.280
<v Speaker 2>I I mean, once you're out on two and you've

0:30:18.280 --> 0:30:20.320
<v Speaker 2>played songs a bunch, you don't have to practice the

0:30:20.400 --> 0:30:24.760
<v Speaker 2>songs as much. But for me to avoid to get

0:30:24.880 --> 0:30:28.320
<v Speaker 2>my hands to do what my brain is thinking, I

0:30:28.440 --> 0:30:31.280
<v Speaker 2>have to practice. It's like a physical thing. Some people

0:30:31.320 --> 0:30:35.760
<v Speaker 2>don't have to. I absolutely have to. So for me,

0:30:38.040 --> 0:30:39.600
<v Speaker 2>I get up in the morning and I practice, and

0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:43.160
<v Speaker 2>I get my hands going, and then like for instance,

0:30:44.120 --> 0:30:49.760
<v Speaker 2>Friday night, tonight Night's Wednesday Friday. I'm playing with Pat mcgloughlin.

0:30:49.840 --> 0:30:52.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm not sure if you know who he is. Yes,

0:30:53.640 --> 0:30:55.360
<v Speaker 2>if you ever get a chance to see him play live,

0:30:55.440 --> 0:30:59.920
<v Speaker 2>it's the greatest. He's amazing to play with. But it's

0:31:00.800 --> 0:31:03.520
<v Speaker 2>for me. It's a lot of playing. And he likes

0:31:03.560 --> 0:31:06.680
<v Speaker 2>me to play a lot, and he'll send me I'll

0:31:06.720 --> 0:31:09.680
<v Speaker 2>probably get it tonight or tomorrow. He'll send me an

0:31:09.760 --> 0:31:11.320
<v Speaker 2>MP three and say, here's the new songs I just

0:31:11.400 --> 0:31:13.200
<v Speaker 2>wrote I want to do, so I have to learn

0:31:13.280 --> 0:31:18.560
<v Speaker 2>those songs. Or sometimes I'll also say sometimes we get

0:31:18.560 --> 0:31:20.520
<v Speaker 2>there and he just starts playing new songs and we

0:31:20.600 --> 0:31:24.760
<v Speaker 2>follow him. He's a great bandleader and so but what

0:31:24.800 --> 0:31:28.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm getting around saying is that the next couple days

0:31:29.960 --> 0:31:34.240
<v Speaker 2>I'll work on playing his songs. Even though it's just

0:31:34.320 --> 0:31:37.000
<v Speaker 2>a club gig, it's not being recorded. No one cares.

0:31:37.080 --> 0:31:40.240
<v Speaker 2>It's a club gig. You know, there'll be a lot

0:31:40.280 --> 0:31:43.240
<v Speaker 2>of people there, but playing at this club called Third

0:31:43.320 --> 0:31:49.520
<v Speaker 2>and Lindsley. And but for me to really enjoy myself

0:31:50.720 --> 0:31:54.040
<v Speaker 2>and to be able to relax and play great, I

0:31:54.080 --> 0:31:57.440
<v Speaker 2>have to practice and learn what I'm going to do,

0:31:58.000 --> 0:32:01.040
<v Speaker 2>and then I make less mistakes. I still might make

0:32:01.040 --> 0:32:02.880
<v Speaker 2>a few mistakes. I mean, that's just going to happen.

0:32:03.320 --> 0:32:04.600
<v Speaker 2>But yep, that's what I do.

0:32:06.120 --> 0:32:11.120
<v Speaker 1>Okay, when you're on the road with Kenny, how many musicians,

0:32:11.200 --> 0:32:13.120
<v Speaker 1>backup singers, how many performers?

0:32:13.800 --> 0:32:17.800
<v Speaker 2>We have a six person band and there is drummer,

0:32:17.840 --> 0:32:21.960
<v Speaker 2>a bass player. We have this female bass player named

0:32:22.240 --> 0:32:26.360
<v Speaker 2>Harmony Kelly who's just freaking great. She's like the crowd favorite.

0:32:27.040 --> 0:32:33.120
<v Speaker 2>And then the keyboard player, Wyatt Beard, he's the band

0:32:33.240 --> 0:32:37.080
<v Speaker 2>leader and he sings all the backgrounds and actually on

0:32:37.120 --> 0:32:41.080
<v Speaker 2>the record sings all the backgrounds. He's a great background singer.

0:32:41.600 --> 0:32:49.680
<v Speaker 2>And then there are three guitar players and one guy

0:32:50.040 --> 0:32:54.400
<v Speaker 2>sort of is the guy. Well, actually the other two

0:32:54.440 --> 0:32:58.800
<v Speaker 2>guitar players both play like well. One guitar players are

0:32:58.800 --> 0:33:01.760
<v Speaker 2>great banjo player. He'll do all the banjo stuff and

0:33:01.800 --> 0:33:05.560
<v Speaker 2>all the mandolin stuff, but he plays and he plays

0:33:05.600 --> 0:33:09.480
<v Speaker 2>a lot of acoustic guitar. And then the guy that

0:33:09.640 --> 0:33:14.400
<v Speaker 2>stands next to me, John Conley, he plays fiddle, a

0:33:14.440 --> 0:33:21.200
<v Speaker 2>little bit of mandolin, acoustic and electric. And then I

0:33:21.280 --> 0:33:24.120
<v Speaker 2>used to play a lot of acoustic and and electric.

0:33:24.200 --> 0:33:28.440
<v Speaker 2>I'm kind of more doing just electric playing now I

0:33:28.960 --> 0:33:33.320
<v Speaker 2>mostly do that. And so there's it's a six person band.

0:33:33.360 --> 0:33:35.240
<v Speaker 2>That's kind of how it works.

0:33:35.920 --> 0:33:38.400
<v Speaker 1>So if you're going to go on the road and

0:33:38.480 --> 0:33:41.520
<v Speaker 1>this is a well oiled machine, how far in advance

0:33:41.600 --> 0:33:42.640
<v Speaker 1>do you start to rehearse.

0:33:44.200 --> 0:33:46.760
<v Speaker 2>Well, i'll tell you about this year. We're going to

0:33:46.840 --> 0:33:51.360
<v Speaker 2>do the Sphere again, So we're going to rehearse starting

0:33:51.400 --> 0:33:54.560
<v Speaker 2>in March. We'll do about a week and a half

0:33:55.840 --> 0:34:00.280
<v Speaker 2>and we'll that first week will just makes you our

0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:03.920
<v Speaker 2>sounds are good. Our front of house guy, Robert Scovil,

0:34:04.440 --> 0:34:07.560
<v Speaker 2>who's like the famous front of house guy that was

0:34:07.600 --> 0:34:10.200
<v Speaker 2>Tom Petty's guy for a long time. He's really great.

0:34:10.480 --> 0:34:14.120
<v Speaker 2>He'll be there, we'll get our sounds. We'll maybe change

0:34:14.200 --> 0:34:18.359
<v Speaker 2>some things this year for our sound and so we'll

0:34:18.400 --> 0:34:23.080
<v Speaker 2>do that for the first week and then we'll get

0:34:23.920 --> 0:34:25.640
<v Speaker 2>so that'll be like a week and a half in March,

0:34:26.480 --> 0:34:30.520
<v Speaker 2>and then in April we'll probably do two weeks of

0:34:30.560 --> 0:34:33.279
<v Speaker 2>rehearsal and we'll learn all the new stuff that we're

0:34:33.280 --> 0:34:35.919
<v Speaker 2>going to do, all the changes that we're going to make.

0:34:36.760 --> 0:34:41.719
<v Speaker 2>And I think we're playing a couple of festivals at

0:34:41.719 --> 0:34:44.920
<v Speaker 2>the end of April, and then May and June we'll

0:34:44.960 --> 0:34:48.880
<v Speaker 2>be at the Sphere and we'll do probably a week

0:34:49.120 --> 0:34:52.400
<v Speaker 2>on a sound stage in Las Vegas that has this

0:34:52.760 --> 0:34:57.279
<v Speaker 2>mini sphere thing technology where it's similar and it has

0:34:57.320 --> 0:35:00.279
<v Speaker 2>the surround speakers so they can get the same on

0:35:00.360 --> 0:35:03.080
<v Speaker 2>going and we'll spend you know, maybe four or five

0:35:03.200 --> 0:35:06.200
<v Speaker 2>days there and then we'll be in and we'll start playing.

0:35:06.440 --> 0:35:11.279
<v Speaker 2>But I also will say that Kenny does not like

0:35:11.360 --> 0:35:15.359
<v Speaker 2>to rehearse, and I don't think he'll mind me saying this,

0:35:15.719 --> 0:35:21.280
<v Speaker 2>and we'll so. Rehearsing with him is a great gig

0:35:21.800 --> 0:35:24.600
<v Speaker 2>because you get he'll book you for the week and

0:35:24.640 --> 0:35:28.080
<v Speaker 2>we'll do Monday and Tuesday and we'll run through stuff

0:35:28.120 --> 0:35:33.000
<v Speaker 2>and he'll go, man, you guys sound great. He said,

0:35:33.160 --> 0:35:34.560
<v Speaker 2>let's stick the rest of the week off. What do

0:35:34.600 --> 0:35:35.759
<v Speaker 2>you think and we'll go.

0:35:36.520 --> 0:35:37.600
<v Speaker 1>Sounds good to us.

0:35:38.440 --> 0:35:41.319
<v Speaker 2>He does not like to rehearse this. It's funny because

0:35:41.320 --> 0:35:43.920
<v Speaker 2>he's so meticulous about everything else in the video and

0:35:43.960 --> 0:35:46.800
<v Speaker 2>the lights and the recording. He just sort of leaves

0:35:46.840 --> 0:35:49.840
<v Speaker 2>the live thing up to us as long as we

0:35:49.880 --> 0:35:51.920
<v Speaker 2>don't take advantage of that. You know, if you take

0:35:51.920 --> 0:35:53.400
<v Speaker 2>advantage of it, we're gonna hear about it.

0:35:53.440 --> 0:35:58.200
<v Speaker 1>But you know, yeah, okay, Kenny has a lot of

0:35:58.239 --> 0:36:01.520
<v Speaker 1>production forgetting this. If you're just going out at a

0:36:01.560 --> 0:36:06.600
<v Speaker 1>normal summer, do you then go to Pennsylvania or some

0:36:06.760 --> 0:36:10.040
<v Speaker 1>other place to rehearse with all the production.

0:36:09.960 --> 0:36:14.359
<v Speaker 2>For about a week. Yeah, And usually in my experience,

0:36:14.560 --> 0:36:20.960
<v Speaker 2>we go to Tampa. I've done this two or three

0:36:20.960 --> 0:36:23.600
<v Speaker 2>times with him. We did one time in Nashville. We

0:36:23.640 --> 0:36:26.520
<v Speaker 2>went to Jacksonville one time, but he kind of likes

0:36:26.560 --> 0:36:29.440
<v Speaker 2>the water and likes having his boat nearby. So we go.

0:36:29.600 --> 0:36:33.800
<v Speaker 2>We going down to Tampa and and we rehearse for

0:36:33.800 --> 0:36:36.520
<v Speaker 2>a week and that's really fun. I mean, you're the

0:36:37.320 --> 0:36:41.359
<v Speaker 2>tours are about to start. Everybody's super stoked and excited. You

0:36:41.400 --> 0:36:46.040
<v Speaker 2>meet the new crew people, and there's a lot of dinners,

0:36:46.719 --> 0:36:51.319
<v Speaker 2>and everybody hangs out and there's a real I think

0:36:51.360 --> 0:36:57.040
<v Speaker 2>a lot of big road artists would tell you that

0:36:57.080 --> 0:37:00.480
<v Speaker 2>there's a culture and a family to their to their

0:37:00.560 --> 0:37:06.120
<v Speaker 2>road thing where everybody hangs out and you and with

0:37:06.239 --> 0:37:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Kenny's thing, because it's in a stadium, they have this

0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:11.920
<v Speaker 2>whole thing set up with a bar in a grill

0:37:13.239 --> 0:37:20.279
<v Speaker 2>backstage and they're grilling, you know, fresh seafood and it's

0:37:20.280 --> 0:37:20.839
<v Speaker 2>pretty fun.

0:37:23.000 --> 0:37:25.240
<v Speaker 1>So what was your experience playing the Sphere.

0:37:27.360 --> 0:37:32.400
<v Speaker 2>My experience playing the Sphere was I really really enjoyed

0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:37.440
<v Speaker 2>the setup and we did I'm in my studio right now.

0:37:37.480 --> 0:37:41.560
<v Speaker 2>You can see it's a studio we're in, and we

0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:44.680
<v Speaker 2>did some of the content here at my place, which

0:37:44.719 --> 0:37:48.600
<v Speaker 2>would be the music before the show starts and as

0:37:48.680 --> 0:37:52.440
<v Speaker 2>the show starts, and some in between song stuff. So

0:37:52.480 --> 0:37:55.120
<v Speaker 2>I got to see some of the content. It was

0:37:55.160 --> 0:37:59.480
<v Speaker 2>exciting coming up with sort of cinematic sounds to start

0:37:59.520 --> 0:38:01.960
<v Speaker 2>the show, and so we did that in my studio

0:38:02.760 --> 0:38:05.239
<v Speaker 2>and I loved all that. That was great. I'm really

0:38:05.280 --> 0:38:09.160
<v Speaker 2>into doing music for film and TV now, so this

0:38:09.320 --> 0:38:12.640
<v Speaker 2>is sort of a parallel to that, and that was

0:38:12.719 --> 0:38:19.400
<v Speaker 2>really good. And I really enjoyed the first week at

0:38:19.400 --> 0:38:22.640
<v Speaker 2>the sound stage where we dialed in and we changed

0:38:22.680 --> 0:38:30.120
<v Speaker 2>the arrangements and we're trying new things. Everybody's super excited.

0:38:30.440 --> 0:38:36.920
<v Speaker 2>We're having a great time. And the first couple of shows,

0:38:37.880 --> 0:38:40.160
<v Speaker 2>it's kind of amazing being in there. I mean, it

0:38:40.280 --> 0:38:44.440
<v Speaker 2>sounds really great in there, and you know, you see

0:38:44.480 --> 0:38:48.000
<v Speaker 2>the whole you know, the three sixty spectacle of it.

0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:50.919
<v Speaker 2>And I also mentioned, especially in light of the past

0:38:51.000 --> 0:38:53.200
<v Speaker 2>few weeks, is that for this past week, is that

0:38:54.280 --> 0:38:57.319
<v Speaker 2>while we were at the sound stage, the Dead was

0:38:57.360 --> 0:39:02.080
<v Speaker 2>doing their their last set of dates and we had

0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:05.000
<v Speaker 2>passes to get into the sphere, so I went and

0:39:05.000 --> 0:39:10.200
<v Speaker 2>saw the Dead a couple times, which was just absolutely fantastic.

0:39:11.040 --> 0:39:14.440
<v Speaker 2>I can't say enough good things about what a great

0:39:14.480 --> 0:39:17.239
<v Speaker 2>band they had become, you know, sort of a new

0:39:17.360 --> 0:39:20.920
<v Speaker 2>I've heard you mentioned it in your email. It was

0:39:21.040 --> 0:39:23.680
<v Speaker 2>kind of a it's a different thing now, but it's

0:39:23.680 --> 0:39:25.920
<v Speaker 2>and they're tight in a different way that they weren't

0:39:25.920 --> 0:39:29.960
<v Speaker 2>tight before. And also the whole culture of the dead

0:39:30.480 --> 0:39:33.160
<v Speaker 2>looking at all the people, and I just I really

0:39:33.200 --> 0:39:36.080
<v Speaker 2>loved it so so I enjoyed that week, and the

0:39:36.120 --> 0:39:38.719
<v Speaker 2>first couple of shows were great, and then after that

0:39:39.400 --> 0:39:42.880
<v Speaker 2>it was because we had the floor open and the

0:39:42.880 --> 0:39:45.799
<v Speaker 2>people were down on the floor. It was just like

0:39:45.840 --> 0:39:49.840
<v Speaker 2>a regular Kenny Chesney show. It was not like I

0:39:49.880 --> 0:39:53.600
<v Speaker 2>heard that Vince Gill has this famous quote that everybody

0:39:53.680 --> 0:39:56.879
<v Speaker 2>I've heard ad nauseum where he says, it's the most

0:39:56.920 --> 0:39:59.640
<v Speaker 2>amount of people I've played for that weren't watching me.

0:40:00.760 --> 0:40:05.360
<v Speaker 2>And I did not have that experience. I felt like

0:40:05.719 --> 0:40:11.600
<v Speaker 2>it was pretty normal. It was kind of like a

0:40:11.680 --> 0:40:15.840
<v Speaker 2>regular big gig and it was exciting and the people

0:40:16.160 --> 0:40:19.000
<v Speaker 2>were very excited at the front to see all that

0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:21.879
<v Speaker 2>was going on, but they were watching us too. And

0:40:22.640 --> 0:40:26.279
<v Speaker 2>but then being stuck in Las Vegas for another six weeks,

0:40:27.960 --> 0:40:34.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, yeah, I don't drink or gamble, and it

0:40:34.760 --> 0:40:38.319
<v Speaker 2>was like one hundred and seventeen degrees out and I

0:40:38.360 --> 0:40:41.920
<v Speaker 2>don't really love Las Vegas. It's kind of a dark,

0:40:42.600 --> 0:40:43.200
<v Speaker 2>dark place.

0:40:44.080 --> 0:40:54.480
<v Speaker 1>I'm with you on that. When you're on stage with

0:40:54.560 --> 0:40:58.400
<v Speaker 1>the band. You know with Kenny's band, you know most

0:40:58.400 --> 0:41:01.239
<v Speaker 1>of the people there, they know the hits, they may

0:41:01.320 --> 0:41:04.839
<v Speaker 1>know more. They're just thrilled to be there. But the

0:41:04.880 --> 0:41:08.719
<v Speaker 1>what degreed does the band lock in certain nights and

0:41:08.760 --> 0:41:11.759
<v Speaker 1>it's better certain nights the other nights? And when do

0:41:11.800 --> 0:41:13.400
<v Speaker 1>you feel that? And when do you feel it?

0:41:13.520 --> 0:41:19.239
<v Speaker 2>Mesh, I think it's inevitable that every night isn't perfect.

0:41:19.320 --> 0:41:21.960
<v Speaker 2>And part of the beauty and the magic and the

0:41:22.000 --> 0:41:27.520
<v Speaker 2>mystery of music is it's always different. And we play

0:41:27.560 --> 0:41:31.520
<v Speaker 2>through two amplifiers, We play loud guitars through two amplifiers,

0:41:32.080 --> 0:41:35.320
<v Speaker 2>and they sound different. They sound different every night, especially

0:41:35.360 --> 0:41:39.719
<v Speaker 2>when you travel that they sound different. And I think

0:41:39.719 --> 0:41:44.279
<v Speaker 2>that's a good thing. And it's not always great, But

0:41:45.040 --> 0:41:50.360
<v Speaker 2>this particular band is just it's kind of a special

0:41:51.200 --> 0:41:55.040
<v Speaker 2>group of people. We've just discovered. This band came together

0:41:55.520 --> 0:42:00.359
<v Speaker 2>at the end of the pandemic quick aside and once

0:42:00.400 --> 0:42:02.880
<v Speaker 2>again not to guest any aspersions on the guys that

0:42:02.880 --> 0:42:06.000
<v Speaker 2>aren't in the band anymore. Two of the band members

0:42:07.160 --> 0:42:12.560
<v Speaker 2>would not wear a mask or get tested or any

0:42:12.560 --> 0:42:14.440
<v Speaker 2>of that kind of stuff. So when we all started

0:42:14.480 --> 0:42:18.839
<v Speaker 2>to go back out in twenty twenty two. You had

0:42:18.880 --> 0:42:22.000
<v Speaker 2>to you had to do that, and they refused to

0:42:22.040 --> 0:42:25.840
<v Speaker 2>do it, couldn't so, and it was an opportunity to

0:42:25.880 --> 0:42:29.240
<v Speaker 2>have a new band, which is probably and they were great,

0:42:29.480 --> 0:42:31.680
<v Speaker 2>they were great players, but it was probably time to

0:42:31.680 --> 0:42:36.680
<v Speaker 2>have a new band. This is an exceptional band. And

0:42:36.920 --> 0:42:39.800
<v Speaker 2>we also record on our own and have a record

0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:43.680
<v Speaker 2>out that gets played on No Shoes Radio, and we're

0:42:43.680 --> 0:42:46.879
<v Speaker 2>in the process of recording a second record. So yeah,

0:42:46.920 --> 0:42:50.080
<v Speaker 2>we're and what is that bill as the name of

0:42:50.120 --> 0:42:53.520
<v Speaker 2>the band is Rosie and the Revival, and the reason

0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:55.919
<v Speaker 2>it's part of the reason it's called that is we

0:42:56.239 --> 0:43:00.759
<v Speaker 2>At one point he wanted to do a whole lot Rosie,

0:43:01.880 --> 0:43:08.400
<v Speaker 2>which is a ac DC song, and so our bass player,

0:43:09.600 --> 0:43:13.120
<v Speaker 2>Harmony Kelly, she can really soul shout and she can

0:43:13.160 --> 0:43:16.800
<v Speaker 2>sing really high, so she could sing that's not Bond Scott,

0:43:16.840 --> 0:43:20.080
<v Speaker 2>that's the other guy whatever his name is. It's that guy.

0:43:20.120 --> 0:43:22.959
<v Speaker 2>It sing but he sings really high, so she could

0:43:22.960 --> 0:43:29.880
<v Speaker 2>do that. So we we we did that song and

0:43:30.920 --> 0:43:36.200
<v Speaker 2>we rehearsed it at a sound check and Robert Scovil

0:43:36.400 --> 0:43:39.279
<v Speaker 2>was recording all the soundchecks so we could check our

0:43:39.320 --> 0:43:44.319
<v Speaker 2>parts and everything, and he made a little mix of

0:43:44.360 --> 0:43:46.200
<v Speaker 2>that and we listened back to it and went like,

0:43:46.239 --> 0:43:51.239
<v Speaker 2>holy shit, just sounds amazing. So on our record is

0:43:51.320 --> 0:43:54.600
<v Speaker 2>the first time we played that our sound check our

0:43:54.760 --> 0:43:58.560
<v Speaker 2>that's on the record, so that's hence the name. So

0:43:58.560 --> 0:44:01.359
<v Speaker 2>so she's kind of Rosie, but she doesn't sing all

0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:04.239
<v Speaker 2>the songs, and so then we did. So then through

0:44:04.239 --> 0:44:08.120
<v Speaker 2>the rest of that tour, we did we would record

0:44:08.160 --> 0:44:10.920
<v Speaker 2>our sound checks. We did a Tom Petty song, we

0:44:10.960 --> 0:44:13.320
<v Speaker 2>did a song by the Stones, and we did a

0:44:13.400 --> 0:44:17.560
<v Speaker 2>meters instrumental. So I in my studio, I kind of

0:44:17.600 --> 0:44:21.799
<v Speaker 2>cobbled that together and then I also write songs, and

0:44:21.840 --> 0:44:23.920
<v Speaker 2>a couple of the other people in the band write songs.

0:44:24.200 --> 0:44:27.960
<v Speaker 2>So we came to my studio, we recorded those songs

0:44:28.640 --> 0:44:30.920
<v Speaker 2>and we really liked it. We played it for Kenny.

0:44:31.120 --> 0:44:34.840
<v Speaker 2>He loved it, and so I just we came up

0:44:34.880 --> 0:44:37.799
<v Speaker 2>with the idea to call the record sound checks and

0:44:37.880 --> 0:44:42.200
<v Speaker 2>tape decks, which is apropos of what of what of

0:44:42.239 --> 0:44:46.720
<v Speaker 2>what we did? And so yeah, that's out and it's gotten.

0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:49.600
<v Speaker 2>You know, it's not like a huge hit record or anything,

0:44:49.680 --> 0:44:52.719
<v Speaker 2>but for us, it's been great. And he'll we'll play

0:44:52.760 --> 0:44:54.319
<v Speaker 2>a gig and he'll have us do one of our

0:44:54.360 --> 0:44:57.000
<v Speaker 2>songs on the gig. You know, he's very gracious in

0:44:57.040 --> 0:44:57.399
<v Speaker 2>that way.

0:44:58.520 --> 0:45:01.080
<v Speaker 1>So how much equipment? What equipment do you bring on

0:45:01.120 --> 0:45:01.520
<v Speaker 1>the road?

0:45:02.560 --> 0:45:06.839
<v Speaker 2>I mean the overall thing is huge. I mean it's

0:45:06.840 --> 0:45:11.959
<v Speaker 2>a stadium gig. So but I like to play through

0:45:12.000 --> 0:45:20.439
<v Speaker 2>a Marshall amplifier and the other two guitar players they

0:45:20.520 --> 0:45:26.120
<v Speaker 2>do a lot of switching of instruments, and they do

0:45:25.719 --> 0:45:30.359
<v Speaker 2>there's this sort of thing that guitar players do now

0:45:30.440 --> 0:45:33.480
<v Speaker 2>where they play a lot of different guitars. Like if

0:45:33.520 --> 0:45:36.600
<v Speaker 2>you go see whoever, they're changing guitar every song. I

0:45:36.680 --> 0:45:40.919
<v Speaker 2>kind of bugs me. And when I when I.

0:45:40.840 --> 0:45:41.399
<v Speaker 1>See like.

0:45:43.120 --> 0:45:46.879
<v Speaker 2>A clip of Exile on Main Street that tour, Keith

0:45:46.960 --> 0:45:49.400
<v Speaker 2>is playing a strat the whole night. So I have

0:45:49.480 --> 0:45:52.920
<v Speaker 2>this firebird guitar and unless it's in a weird tuning

0:45:53.040 --> 0:45:56.320
<v Speaker 2>or I have to switch guitars or play a baritone guitar,

0:45:56.719 --> 0:45:59.520
<v Speaker 2>which is a low tuned guitar, I just play a

0:45:59.520 --> 0:46:03.560
<v Speaker 2>fire through a Marshall and my setup is is pretty simple.

0:46:05.680 --> 0:46:07.920
<v Speaker 2>I have amps off stage that are miked.

0:46:09.000 --> 0:46:11.160
<v Speaker 1>So where'd you grow up?

0:46:11.280 --> 0:46:14.520
<v Speaker 2>I grew up in Cleveland and moved to Louisville in

0:46:14.560 --> 0:46:19.000
<v Speaker 2>the sixth grade and moved to Nashville right when I

0:46:19.040 --> 0:46:20.520
<v Speaker 2>turned twenty one.

0:46:20.840 --> 0:46:25.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, so did you play music before the Beatles or

0:46:25.719 --> 0:46:27.360
<v Speaker 1>was more you saw the Beatles and you got to

0:46:27.360 --> 0:46:27.759
<v Speaker 1>pick up.

0:46:27.760 --> 0:46:31.320
<v Speaker 2>I saw the Beatles in the Hall deal, the standard deal.

0:46:31.360 --> 0:46:33.520
<v Speaker 2>But I also around that time heard I heard the

0:46:33.560 --> 0:46:37.160
<v Speaker 2>Beatles and loved that, and I didn't really play. And

0:46:37.239 --> 0:46:40.360
<v Speaker 2>then I heard of Jimmy Hendrick's record, like when I

0:46:40.400 --> 0:46:43.879
<v Speaker 2>was in grade school, and that was it. I was it,

0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:45.640
<v Speaker 2>and then I had to get a guitar, and then

0:46:45.680 --> 0:46:49.440
<v Speaker 2>I just I didn't. I just played in your typical

0:46:49.560 --> 0:46:54.720
<v Speaker 2>garage band, maybe at a high school dance or something

0:46:54.800 --> 0:46:55.200
<v Speaker 2>like that.

0:46:56.080 --> 0:46:57.480
<v Speaker 1>What'd your parents do for a living?

0:46:57.920 --> 0:47:02.919
<v Speaker 2>My parents are in Cleveland. We grew up in this

0:47:03.560 --> 0:47:09.120
<v Speaker 2>sort of working class, middle class area and my dad

0:47:09.200 --> 0:47:12.719
<v Speaker 2>was an engineer, a mechanical engineer. My mom was just

0:47:12.760 --> 0:47:18.799
<v Speaker 2>a housewife. And like when I was young, I would

0:47:18.880 --> 0:47:22.280
<v Speaker 2>say we were working class. Then as my dad started

0:47:22.280 --> 0:47:26.200
<v Speaker 2>to do better, we were middle class, you know.

0:47:27.000 --> 0:47:28.480
<v Speaker 1>And how many kids in the family.

0:47:29.680 --> 0:47:32.800
<v Speaker 2>There's three. There's three of us. I'm I'm the youngest,

0:47:32.880 --> 0:47:37.560
<v Speaker 2>and two brothers. And it's also interesting that in Cleveland

0:47:37.800 --> 0:47:42.799
<v Speaker 2>it was an entirely Jewish part of town where there

0:47:43.000 --> 0:47:46.920
<v Speaker 2>was nobody that wasn't one of us. We're all Jews

0:47:47.800 --> 0:47:51.040
<v Speaker 2>living in this area. And looking back on that, that

0:47:51.239 --> 0:47:54.759
<v Speaker 2>was a really great thing. The whole ethnic of the

0:47:55.360 --> 0:47:58.160
<v Speaker 2>northern ethnic culture.

0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:00.480
<v Speaker 1>That was that was good. So what happened to your

0:48:00.520 --> 0:48:02.160
<v Speaker 1>two brothers? How did their lives play out?

0:48:04.120 --> 0:48:07.440
<v Speaker 2>My next oldest brother who I'm very very close to,

0:48:07.600 --> 0:48:10.200
<v Speaker 2>that's a couple of years older than me. He's a

0:48:10.719 --> 0:48:15.760
<v Speaker 2>therapist and he's in Santa Rosa above San Francisco. And

0:48:15.800 --> 0:48:19.319
<v Speaker 2>then my oldest brother, who's a good bit older I'm

0:48:19.400 --> 0:48:25.200
<v Speaker 2>not very close with. He was a classical musician, but

0:48:25.320 --> 0:48:28.440
<v Speaker 2>never really did that well and he got into sales

0:48:29.320 --> 0:48:33.120
<v Speaker 2>and then his life just sort of fell apart and

0:48:33.160 --> 0:48:34.640
<v Speaker 2>he's had a lot of health problems.

0:48:35.320 --> 0:48:37.880
<v Speaker 1>Well, if he's a classical musician, sounds like there was

0:48:37.920 --> 0:48:39.839
<v Speaker 1>a lot of music in the home growing up.

0:48:40.800 --> 0:48:44.120
<v Speaker 2>There was. Yeah, there was a lot, Yeah, definitely.

0:48:44.600 --> 0:48:46.920
<v Speaker 1>And did your parents make you take piano lessons?

0:48:48.160 --> 0:48:52.360
<v Speaker 2>No, but I played trombone and they got me trombone lessons.

0:48:52.400 --> 0:48:57.040
<v Speaker 2>They didn't like the guitar thing very much. They sort

0:48:57.040 --> 0:49:00.239
<v Speaker 2>of discouraged that. But I enjoyed trombone and play in

0:49:00.320 --> 0:49:02.840
<v Speaker 2>the youth orchestra. I played in the band and I

0:49:02.880 --> 0:49:05.919
<v Speaker 2>played cello in the orchestra, so I was always very

0:49:05.920 --> 0:49:09.880
<v Speaker 2>involved in those things, and my parents were very much

0:49:11.360 --> 0:49:16.040
<v Speaker 2>behind that, but they didn't like the thing of playing

0:49:16.080 --> 0:49:19.080
<v Speaker 2>in garage bands and loud. I had a amp and

0:49:19.120 --> 0:49:22.040
<v Speaker 2>a guitar in my room and I blasted really loud

0:49:22.080 --> 0:49:26.400
<v Speaker 2>and play along to Hendricks and Cream and you know

0:49:26.480 --> 0:49:29.680
<v Speaker 2>those kind of records. Then they were not into that

0:49:29.719 --> 0:49:30.200
<v Speaker 2>too much.

0:49:30.400 --> 0:49:32.759
<v Speaker 1>Well, if you play the trombone in the cello, are

0:49:32.760 --> 0:49:34.680
<v Speaker 1>you the kind of guy who can pick up anything

0:49:34.719 --> 0:49:38.440
<v Speaker 1>and figure out how to play it. No, I'm not.

0:49:38.719 --> 0:49:41.799
<v Speaker 2>I have to practice and work at everything. I also

0:49:41.840 --> 0:49:45.480
<v Speaker 2>play steel guitar, and I love playing steel guitar. I'm

0:49:45.520 --> 0:49:47.680
<v Speaker 2>not really great at it because I don't play it enough,

0:49:47.960 --> 0:49:51.319
<v Speaker 2>but I have to really work at something. And I

0:49:51.360 --> 0:49:53.719
<v Speaker 2>played bass, so on a lot of the things that

0:49:53.760 --> 0:49:56.480
<v Speaker 2>I record here at my studio, I play bass. I

0:49:56.520 --> 0:50:01.200
<v Speaker 2>play guitar. I can eke out a key part, you know,

0:50:01.400 --> 0:50:03.920
<v Speaker 2>just sort of get a sound and play some chords

0:50:04.480 --> 0:50:06.360
<v Speaker 2>because I know the notes. But I'm not really a

0:50:06.400 --> 0:50:08.319
<v Speaker 2>keyboard player. Yep, that's what I do.

0:50:08.560 --> 0:50:10.480
<v Speaker 1>And what kind of kid were you? Were? You good?

0:50:10.560 --> 0:50:13.239
<v Speaker 1>In school. Did you play spoards? Were a loaner? Did

0:50:13.320 --> 0:50:15.040
<v Speaker 1>you have friends?

0:50:15.640 --> 0:50:18.480
<v Speaker 2>I was kind of a loaner. Our family was a

0:50:18.719 --> 0:50:23.840
<v Speaker 2>very dysfunctional family, and we once we grew up in

0:50:24.880 --> 0:50:27.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean, we didn't know this as kids, but once

0:50:27.239 --> 0:50:29.640
<v Speaker 2>we grew up, especially when my brother is a therapist,

0:50:30.160 --> 0:50:34.879
<v Speaker 2>we realized that my dad was on the autism spectrum,

0:50:34.920 --> 0:50:39.319
<v Speaker 2>probably a little closer to Asperger's, but he was. He was,

0:50:39.440 --> 0:50:41.279
<v Speaker 2>And so he was this guy that I kind of

0:50:41.280 --> 0:50:43.840
<v Speaker 2>didn't know. He was a guy that was around, but

0:50:43.920 --> 0:50:47.759
<v Speaker 2>I didn't. I had no relationship none with him, and

0:50:47.800 --> 0:50:50.440
<v Speaker 2>my mom was in the hospital all the time. So

0:50:51.520 --> 0:50:55.160
<v Speaker 2>we kind of raised ourselves. I didn't have any I mean,

0:50:55.280 --> 0:50:58.759
<v Speaker 2>I can tell you to an extreme amount, I had

0:50:59.480 --> 0:51:05.680
<v Speaker 2>zero parental supervision in any way whatsoever. There's just I

0:51:05.680 --> 0:51:07.480
<v Speaker 2>mean I did. I could come and go as I please.

0:51:07.920 --> 0:51:10.040
<v Speaker 2>I could stay all night and show up the next day.

0:51:10.480 --> 0:51:14.280
<v Speaker 2>And it's kind of weird, you know, so, and that's

0:51:14.400 --> 0:51:16.120
<v Speaker 2>probably not the best way to grow up.

0:51:17.000 --> 0:51:18.520
<v Speaker 1>Why was your mother in the hospital.

0:51:21.120 --> 0:51:26.359
<v Speaker 2>She just had all kinds of health issues and she

0:51:26.520 --> 0:51:30.120
<v Speaker 2>was we also learned we learned this out actually late

0:51:30.160 --> 0:51:33.600
<v Speaker 2>in her life. She was adopted and had a very

0:51:33.680 --> 0:51:37.720
<v Speaker 2>rough start, and she was just a really messed up person,

0:51:37.760 --> 0:51:42.440
<v Speaker 2>like a very angry, messed up person. And once again

0:51:42.560 --> 0:51:44.799
<v Speaker 2>I just sort of there was these people that I

0:51:44.960 --> 0:51:48.399
<v Speaker 2>lived in the same house with them, but I did

0:51:48.480 --> 0:51:52.560
<v Speaker 2>not really have a relationship with them, and so music

0:51:52.840 --> 0:51:54.200
<v Speaker 2>was my escape.

0:51:54.960 --> 0:51:55.120
<v Speaker 1>You know.

0:51:55.160 --> 0:51:57.120
<v Speaker 2>I was grateful to have that. That's kind of how

0:51:57.120 --> 0:51:57.760
<v Speaker 2>I escaped.

0:51:58.080 --> 0:52:01.040
<v Speaker 1>So you live in outside Cleveland, you move moved to Louisville.

0:52:01.600 --> 0:52:02.640
<v Speaker 1>How is that different?

0:52:04.480 --> 0:52:08.200
<v Speaker 2>It was night and day because my dad had gotten

0:52:08.200 --> 0:52:11.680
<v Speaker 2>a better job and we lived in the suburbs and

0:52:11.719 --> 0:52:14.080
<v Speaker 2>there were no Jews, and so.

0:52:15.200 --> 0:52:16.880
<v Speaker 1>It was it was weird.

0:52:16.920 --> 0:52:19.400
<v Speaker 2>It was a little weird, but you know, I in

0:52:20.480 --> 0:52:22.720
<v Speaker 2>junior high school. In high school, I had some really

0:52:22.719 --> 0:52:26.400
<v Speaker 2>good friends and I played in some bands, but I

0:52:26.440 --> 0:52:28.799
<v Speaker 2>also got in a lot of trouble and I got

0:52:28.840 --> 0:52:32.200
<v Speaker 2>into drugs, and it was sort of I was just

0:52:32.239 --> 0:52:38.040
<v Speaker 2>sort of the trying to figure myself out. And because

0:52:38.040 --> 0:52:40.360
<v Speaker 2>I didn't have any supervision, I did some things I

0:52:40.360 --> 0:52:43.200
<v Speaker 2>shouldn't have done and was around some people I shouldn't

0:52:43.200 --> 0:52:47.040
<v Speaker 2>have been around. I actually got arrested a couple of times,

0:52:47.719 --> 0:52:52.279
<v Speaker 2>and yeah, so it was but actually my I had

0:52:52.320 --> 0:52:56.080
<v Speaker 2>one really really great friend named Jeff Sipperman, who was

0:52:56.239 --> 0:53:00.319
<v Speaker 2>Jewish as well. We were the two Jewish kids at

0:53:00.320 --> 0:53:03.680
<v Speaker 2>our school. There's probably a couple others, but as far

0:53:03.719 --> 0:53:05.960
<v Speaker 2>as I can remember, it was the two of us,

0:53:06.400 --> 0:53:09.960
<v Speaker 2>and we both moved to Nashville together. He played bass,

0:53:10.400 --> 0:53:14.200
<v Speaker 2>So we moved together to Nashville to seek our fame

0:53:14.239 --> 0:53:17.600
<v Speaker 2>and fortune at the ripe age of twenty one or

0:53:17.640 --> 0:53:21.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty I guess I was just turning twenty one my moved.

0:53:21.200 --> 0:53:24.520
<v Speaker 1>Okay, before we get there, are you playing in bands

0:53:24.520 --> 0:53:25.280
<v Speaker 1>in high school?

0:53:27.800 --> 0:53:34.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm playing in like garages and rehearsing and basements. Yeah,

0:53:35.000 --> 0:53:38.279
<v Speaker 2>I'm sort of doing it and sort of kind of

0:53:38.360 --> 0:53:42.719
<v Speaker 2>doing it, but not really. I mean, I would have

0:53:42.800 --> 0:53:44.440
<v Speaker 2>a guitar. Then I wouldn't have a guitar. Then I

0:53:44.440 --> 0:53:48.800
<v Speaker 2>would have a guitar, and I'd been playing trombone and.

0:53:50.400 --> 0:53:55.080
<v Speaker 1>So sort of, yeah, what point did the bell go off?

0:53:55.120 --> 0:53:56.400
<v Speaker 1>I want to do this for a living.

0:53:59.000 --> 0:54:02.320
<v Speaker 2>I went to college for a year and I always

0:54:02.360 --> 0:54:05.640
<v Speaker 2>got really good grades, and I got an academic scholarship

0:54:06.280 --> 0:54:12.600
<v Speaker 2>and to where to Bradley, to Bradley University, and I

0:54:12.719 --> 0:54:17.360
<v Speaker 2>wasn't in the music program, but I took a improvisational

0:54:17.680 --> 0:54:21.640
<v Speaker 2>music course for at that time was an unusual thing

0:54:21.680 --> 0:54:25.719
<v Speaker 2>to have. And I had my guitar and amplifier at

0:54:25.760 --> 0:54:31.439
<v Speaker 2>the school in my trombone, and the music teacher was.

0:54:34.480 --> 0:54:35.440
<v Speaker 1>Really great, and.

0:54:37.000 --> 0:54:39.040
<v Speaker 2>There's a couple of different people. There wasn't a specific

0:54:39.080 --> 0:54:41.560
<v Speaker 2>person like a mentor or anything like that, but they

0:54:41.600 --> 0:54:45.840
<v Speaker 2>really encouraged me. And what I realized is that I

0:54:45.880 --> 0:54:49.200
<v Speaker 2>didn't want to be in college, that I wanted to play.

0:54:49.640 --> 0:54:53.560
<v Speaker 2>And so I moved back to Nashville and got a

0:54:53.600 --> 0:54:56.959
<v Speaker 2>gig in a Holiday Inn lounge band.

0:54:57.000 --> 0:55:00.040
<v Speaker 1>Wait wait, wait, back to Nashville or Louisville.

0:55:00.160 --> 0:55:01.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm sorry, I met.

0:55:01.000 --> 0:55:01.719
<v Speaker 1>I moved back to.

0:55:03.280 --> 0:55:10.440
<v Speaker 2>Louisville and I lived at my girlfriend's house and her

0:55:10.480 --> 0:55:12.480
<v Speaker 2>parents were splitting up and no one was ever there.

0:55:12.560 --> 0:55:14.600
<v Speaker 2>So I was living at my girlfriend's house. I was

0:55:14.680 --> 0:55:19.719
<v Speaker 2>like eighteen, and I got a gig and a Holiday

0:55:19.719 --> 0:55:22.920
<v Speaker 2>Inn band, and once again, my best friend Jeff was

0:55:22.920 --> 0:55:27.600
<v Speaker 2>playing bass, and we had this this lounge gig and

0:55:27.640 --> 0:55:30.160
<v Speaker 2>we were getting paid like three hundred dollars a week

0:55:30.400 --> 0:55:34.359
<v Speaker 2>to play and we're like, this is amazing and so

0:55:35.440 --> 0:55:37.200
<v Speaker 2>and we just were having a ball.

0:55:37.480 --> 0:55:38.520
<v Speaker 1>And so.

0:55:40.360 --> 0:55:43.600
<v Speaker 2>That's when I started to think I had quit college

0:55:44.120 --> 0:55:46.960
<v Speaker 2>and I was practicing all day long and trying to

0:55:47.040 --> 0:55:52.000
<v Speaker 2>learn new things, and we met there. There was a

0:55:54.200 --> 0:55:59.000
<v Speaker 2>showcase bar in Louisville called the Lemon Tree and they

0:55:59.120 --> 0:56:02.680
<v Speaker 2>had like touring bands would play there, and we saw

0:56:02.680 --> 0:56:06.200
<v Speaker 2>this kind of outlaw country band play and we went

0:56:06.400 --> 0:56:08.319
<v Speaker 2>and we would go there because they would play later

0:56:08.400 --> 0:56:10.520
<v Speaker 2>than we played, and we would go there and see

0:56:10.520 --> 0:56:13.240
<v Speaker 2>who was playing. And there was this one band playing

0:56:13.280 --> 0:56:17.600
<v Speaker 2>there and the drummer, who's this very friendly guy, were

0:56:17.680 --> 0:56:19.480
<v Speaker 2>talking to him and saying, hey, we playing a holiday

0:56:19.520 --> 0:56:21.680
<v Speaker 2>inn band, and he said, you guys need to move

0:56:21.719 --> 0:56:25.840
<v Speaker 2>to Nashville. This band was from Nashville, and the drummer

0:56:25.920 --> 0:56:27.279
<v Speaker 2>was saying, you guys, what are you doing up here?

0:56:27.320 --> 0:56:29.840
<v Speaker 2>This is the wrong place to be. So we actually

0:56:30.200 --> 0:56:35.160
<v Speaker 2>went down for a weekend when I was twenty and

0:56:35.280 --> 0:56:38.640
<v Speaker 2>stayed at his house and went to a couple of

0:56:38.719 --> 0:56:42.040
<v Speaker 2>clubs in Nashville and he sort of took us around

0:56:42.760 --> 0:56:46.840
<v Speaker 2>and we said, that's it, We're coming to Nashville. So

0:56:46.880 --> 0:56:51.000
<v Speaker 2>we came back to Louisville, gave our two weeks notice,

0:56:51.719 --> 0:56:57.520
<v Speaker 2>put all of our stuff in my car, and this drummer,

0:56:57.760 --> 0:57:02.680
<v Speaker 2>Rich Kallus, this artist he was playing with, had a

0:57:02.719 --> 0:57:04.480
<v Speaker 2>single out and they were going to go on the road,

0:57:04.800 --> 0:57:08.600
<v Speaker 2>and his wife was six months pregnant, and he said,

0:57:08.640 --> 0:57:11.320
<v Speaker 2>you guys can save my house for free. So someone

0:57:11.440 --> 0:57:16.240
<v Speaker 2>was there with my wife, so she's not there by herself.

0:57:16.240 --> 0:57:18.440
<v Speaker 2>And so Jeff and I looked at each other and said,

0:57:19.160 --> 0:57:19.720
<v Speaker 2>this is.

0:57:19.640 --> 0:57:20.200
<v Speaker 1>This is it.

0:57:20.520 --> 0:57:22.360
<v Speaker 2>We got it. We got a way to go. So

0:57:23.080 --> 0:57:29.240
<v Speaker 2>we loaded up our car and on February second, nineteen seventy.

0:57:28.800 --> 0:57:32.880
<v Speaker 1>Eight, we moved to Nashville. A couple of questions. You

0:57:32.960 --> 0:57:38.080
<v Speaker 1>mentioned Jimmy Hendricks, why I realized the opportunities came up,

0:57:38.680 --> 0:57:40.720
<v Speaker 1>but you didn't think of moving to LA I mean

0:57:40.720 --> 0:57:45.440
<v Speaker 1>in the seventies, Nashville, you know, was very country, not

0:57:45.520 --> 0:57:47.680
<v Speaker 1>like today where it's influenced by rock and roll.

0:57:49.160 --> 0:57:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I think to be really well, there's there's two reasons.

0:57:52.840 --> 0:57:58.000
<v Speaker 2>We loved the whole outlaw movement. Like we love Johnny Paycheck.

0:57:58.120 --> 0:58:00.520
<v Speaker 2>We're really in it. And this was before take this

0:58:00.640 --> 0:58:03.760
<v Speaker 2>job and Shove it his Like earlier records we thought

0:58:03.800 --> 0:58:08.240
<v Speaker 2>they were just great. The Whalen record, Dreaming My Dreams

0:58:08.800 --> 0:58:15.439
<v Speaker 2>and Rambling Man to Us. Those records were more rock.

0:58:15.520 --> 0:58:18.080
<v Speaker 2>And this is like nineteen seventy seven, nineteen seventy eight,

0:58:18.320 --> 0:58:21.720
<v Speaker 2>to us, those records were more rock and roll than

0:58:21.800 --> 0:58:25.760
<v Speaker 2>like Kansas. There was this rawness to that, and there

0:58:25.840 --> 0:58:30.920
<v Speaker 2>was the guitar, the way it sounded, and in particular,

0:58:31.640 --> 0:58:37.080
<v Speaker 2>there's a Hank Junior song called Feeling Better and it's

0:58:37.080 --> 0:58:41.240
<v Speaker 2>actually Reggie Young on guitar. It's Reggie Young and Whalen

0:58:41.320 --> 0:58:46.960
<v Speaker 2>on guitar and something about that song. It was country,

0:58:47.000 --> 0:58:49.800
<v Speaker 2>but it had this raw it was kind of the blues.

0:58:50.440 --> 0:58:53.560
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that. I think that song came out

0:58:53.840 --> 0:58:57.480
<v Speaker 2>maybe in seventy seven, and that was our song. We

0:58:57.600 --> 0:59:00.400
<v Speaker 2>heard that song like that is the most bad ass

0:59:00.440 --> 0:59:03.800
<v Speaker 2>shit I've ever heard. Said they're making it in Nashville.

0:59:03.880 --> 0:59:06.600
<v Speaker 2>Let's go to Nashville. And on the other side of it,

0:59:06.720 --> 0:59:09.600
<v Speaker 2>you know, to be honest, is that New York and

0:59:09.800 --> 0:59:14.680
<v Speaker 2>LA were intimidating. They were far away, and Nashville was

0:59:15.000 --> 0:59:17.280
<v Speaker 2>one hundred and fifty miles away, and we had a

0:59:17.280 --> 0:59:20.200
<v Speaker 2>free place to stay. So I really didn't have a plan.

0:59:20.320 --> 0:59:23.040
<v Speaker 2>It just seemed the next best thing. I didn't have

0:59:23.080 --> 0:59:23.640
<v Speaker 2>any kind.

0:59:23.480 --> 0:59:26.680
<v Speaker 1>Of like looking into the future.

0:59:26.680 --> 0:59:29.080
<v Speaker 2>I had no freaking idea what I was going to do.

0:59:29.520 --> 0:59:31.440
<v Speaker 2>We just we just moved there.

0:59:31.640 --> 0:59:36.600
<v Speaker 1>Okay, those records you mentioned the Outlaw country records. At

0:59:36.600 --> 0:59:38.520
<v Speaker 1>that time, I'm living in LA. We don't even have

0:59:38.600 --> 0:59:42.920
<v Speaker 1>a station that's playing country when I would drive cross

0:59:42.920 --> 0:59:45.240
<v Speaker 1>country when I lived on the East coast. Maybe if

0:59:45.240 --> 0:59:47.480
<v Speaker 1>you were in the hinter leands, you know, there'd be

0:59:47.520 --> 0:59:50.000
<v Speaker 1>an AM station you're you know, turning the value to

0:59:50.040 --> 0:59:52.240
<v Speaker 1>hear that. So what did you get exposed to this stuff?

0:59:56.520 --> 0:59:57.200
<v Speaker 1>I don't.

0:59:57.680 --> 1:00:02.920
<v Speaker 2>I think because we had this. We were playing with

1:00:02.960 --> 1:00:07.720
<v Speaker 2>this lounge singer who was into country music, and we

1:00:07.800 --> 1:00:12.080
<v Speaker 2>played kind of more. We played some Whalen and we

1:00:12.120 --> 1:00:17.960
<v Speaker 2>played some whatever was of the day, good hearted Woman,

1:00:22.120 --> 1:00:26.640
<v Speaker 2>some of those Willies songs, and we just so we

1:00:26.720 --> 1:00:30.840
<v Speaker 2>found those records and we just liked it. I mean,

1:00:31.120 --> 1:00:33.480
<v Speaker 2>I don't really know the answer to that question. It's

1:00:33.520 --> 1:00:36.280
<v Speaker 2>a good question to ask. I think we just sort

1:00:36.320 --> 1:00:39.000
<v Speaker 2>of discovered that. I would also say my friend Jeff,

1:00:39.520 --> 1:00:45.120
<v Speaker 2>he was this very, very bright guy who sadly enough

1:00:45.280 --> 1:00:49.520
<v Speaker 2>was an addict and ended up it killed them. But

1:00:50.320 --> 1:00:52.320
<v Speaker 2>he was just this really bright guy and he just

1:00:52.480 --> 1:00:57.880
<v Speaker 2>found these records. So we found these early Haggard records,

1:00:57.880 --> 1:01:01.640
<v Speaker 2>and the guitar playing on those early Haggard record they're amazing.

1:01:01.880 --> 1:01:03.920
<v Speaker 2>And I just listened and it was so kind of

1:01:04.160 --> 1:01:08.480
<v Speaker 2>raw and funky sound, and I just liked it so

1:01:09.200 --> 1:01:12.520
<v Speaker 2>And it's funny because I'm not a great country guitar player.

1:01:12.520 --> 1:01:15.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm really more of a blues guitar player. But there's

1:01:15.920 --> 1:01:19.080
<v Speaker 2>something about those records that I liked, and I just thought, Okay,

1:01:19.080 --> 1:01:21.280
<v Speaker 2>so Nashville is really close. We're just going to go

1:01:21.320 --> 1:01:24.240
<v Speaker 2>down there with no plan. I have any plan.

1:01:24.360 --> 1:01:27.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Would your parents see about you dropping out of college?

1:01:28.840 --> 1:01:33.440
<v Speaker 2>They were not happy about it, but typical of my parents,

1:01:34.000 --> 1:01:35.960
<v Speaker 2>they just sort of didn't say much about it.

1:01:36.800 --> 1:01:39.120
<v Speaker 1>You were living on your own money, You weren't asking

1:01:39.120 --> 1:01:40.280
<v Speaker 1>for any money, or were you.

1:01:42.080 --> 1:01:45.040
<v Speaker 2>I was totally on my own. I've pretty much always

1:01:45.040 --> 1:01:47.840
<v Speaker 2>been on my own. I got a scholarship for college,

1:01:49.520 --> 1:01:52.280
<v Speaker 2>an academic scholarship. They didn't have to pay for anything.

1:01:52.960 --> 1:01:56.400
<v Speaker 2>And when I moved to Nashville, I mean when I

1:01:56.480 --> 1:01:59.680
<v Speaker 2>moved back to Louisville, I got a job at this

1:01:59.840 --> 1:02:03.920
<v Speaker 2>life like home depot type place, and I found an

1:02:03.960 --> 1:02:09.920
<v Speaker 2>apartment that was I think it was one hundred and

1:02:09.920 --> 1:02:13.560
<v Speaker 2>twenty five a month, and I had a job that

1:02:13.600 --> 1:02:17.400
<v Speaker 2>I could walk to and then I got a car

1:02:17.520 --> 1:02:20.720
<v Speaker 2>soon after that for like no money, almost I bought

1:02:20.720 --> 1:02:31.440
<v Speaker 2>an old car and so I was just on my own. Yeah.

1:02:31.520 --> 1:02:34.840
<v Speaker 1>Okay, So now you show up in Nashville. You're babysitting

1:02:34.880 --> 1:02:38.440
<v Speaker 1>the pregnant. Wait, what do you do? You don't know anybody.

1:02:39.720 --> 1:02:42.120
<v Speaker 2>Well, here's what happened. I've told the story a bunch

1:02:42.160 --> 1:02:44.600
<v Speaker 2>of times, and this is I mean, this is what happened.

1:02:45.320 --> 1:02:50.800
<v Speaker 2>So we drive in my car on February second. We

1:02:51.200 --> 1:02:54.760
<v Speaker 2>drive to Nashville, and we have a place to stay,

1:02:55.320 --> 1:02:59.600
<v Speaker 2>and we go there and the wife of rich Sharon,

1:02:59.680 --> 1:03:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Sharon callus. She's there. She's got a room set up

1:03:03.720 --> 1:03:06.240
<v Speaker 2>with a couple of mattresses that me and Jeff can

1:03:06.320 --> 1:03:12.880
<v Speaker 2>stay in. And we each had like our little funky suitcase.

1:03:12.920 --> 1:03:14.480
<v Speaker 2>We dropped it off, but I had my amp in

1:03:14.520 --> 1:03:17.520
<v Speaker 2>my car. And as we were driving to Sharon's house,

1:03:18.600 --> 1:03:23.720
<v Speaker 2>we heard there's a bar that had twenty five cent beer,

1:03:24.600 --> 1:03:26.400
<v Speaker 2>and we said, this is our first night in Nashville,

1:03:26.480 --> 1:03:32.040
<v Speaker 2>let's go celebrate. And it was called the Long Branch Saloon.

1:03:32.840 --> 1:03:35.160
<v Speaker 2>And so we go to the Long Branch Saloon is

1:03:35.200 --> 1:03:40.040
<v Speaker 2>twenty five sent beer and we go in there and

1:03:40.080 --> 1:03:43.840
<v Speaker 2>there's a guy like on a construction palette that you know,

1:03:43.880 --> 1:03:47.880
<v Speaker 2>you would stack bags of I don't know, feed or whatever.

1:03:48.320 --> 1:03:51.560
<v Speaker 2>He's on there with his electric guitarists little pa playing

1:03:51.600 --> 1:03:55.520
<v Speaker 2>the blues. And I'm always been a blues nerd. So

1:03:56.640 --> 1:03:58.240
<v Speaker 2>he's in there playing and I just went up to

1:03:58.320 --> 1:04:01.320
<v Speaker 2>him and his name was Bobby Bradford. And I went

1:04:01.360 --> 1:04:03.720
<v Speaker 2>up to him and I said, we just moved to town.

1:04:04.440 --> 1:04:07.800
<v Speaker 2>We have our guitars in the car. Can we play

1:04:07.840 --> 1:04:11.520
<v Speaker 2>with you? He said, bring them on in. So we

1:04:11.840 --> 1:04:14.440
<v Speaker 2>got our I got my amp out of the trunk,

1:04:14.840 --> 1:04:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Jeff had his bass, he plugged it into the PA.

1:04:18.880 --> 1:04:21.640
<v Speaker 2>I got my guitar and we played with Bobby. He

1:04:22.280 --> 1:04:23.800
<v Speaker 2>loved it, and he said, I've been looking for guys

1:04:23.800 --> 1:04:27.640
<v Speaker 2>that like the blues. And so he had a gig

1:04:27.840 --> 1:04:31.720
<v Speaker 2>there on Monday nights, and he had a Wednesday night

1:04:31.920 --> 1:04:39.560
<v Speaker 2>at this Vanderbilt bar called the Villager. And so literally

1:04:39.640 --> 1:04:42.520
<v Speaker 2>the night we got there, we had two nights a

1:04:42.520 --> 1:04:48.400
<v Speaker 2>week of gigs. And then this thing happened where we

1:04:48.520 --> 1:04:53.959
<v Speaker 2>just became the Vanderbilt band, like right away and right away,

1:04:54.000 --> 1:04:56.600
<v Speaker 2>and then we added dates and we would play frat parties.

1:04:57.160 --> 1:05:00.680
<v Speaker 1>And this is with Bobby Bradford with who.

1:05:00.920 --> 1:05:03.840
<v Speaker 2>This is with Bobby Bradford. This happened in the space

1:05:03.880 --> 1:05:07.400
<v Speaker 2>of about six weeks. Okay, it just I don't I mean,

1:05:07.440 --> 1:05:09.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm telling you this is I tell the story and

1:05:09.440 --> 1:05:12.600
<v Speaker 2>I think about it going like this is impossible, but

1:05:12.720 --> 1:05:15.600
<v Speaker 2>this is what happened. It's like it was this wonderful,

1:05:16.240 --> 1:05:20.160
<v Speaker 2>amazing thing where all of a sudden it was packed

1:05:20.280 --> 1:05:23.640
<v Speaker 2>every night we played, and it was Vanderbilt Kids. And

1:05:23.680 --> 1:05:26.400
<v Speaker 2>Bobby was a biker and he was in his thirties

1:05:26.840 --> 1:05:30.400
<v Speaker 2>and so he had and he was affiliated with I

1:05:30.440 --> 1:05:34.439
<v Speaker 2>don't remember the name of the biker club, but one

1:05:34.480 --> 1:05:37.520
<v Speaker 2>of the where they would wear the jackets, you know, right,

1:05:37.680 --> 1:05:40.120
<v Speaker 2>and with their names on the back of it, and

1:05:40.360 --> 1:05:42.640
<v Speaker 2>like the Fortune Seekers. I don't I can't remember the

1:05:42.720 --> 1:05:46.000
<v Speaker 2>name of it. And so those guys would all show up.

1:05:46.400 --> 1:05:49.200
<v Speaker 2>So we would play at the Villager and it would

1:05:49.200 --> 1:05:53.880
<v Speaker 2>be wall to wall with these club bikers and Van

1:05:53.920 --> 1:05:57.760
<v Speaker 2>Dey Preppy's students, and it just became a scene. And

1:05:57.800 --> 1:06:02.919
<v Speaker 2>so then Bobby Bradford was in the process of leasing

1:06:03.440 --> 1:06:07.960
<v Speaker 2>this like funky boat house on the outskirts of town,

1:06:08.840 --> 1:06:12.840
<v Speaker 2>and he made that into his blues club and they

1:06:12.880 --> 1:06:16.040
<v Speaker 2>had a place to live in the back. And this

1:06:16.160 --> 1:06:18.560
<v Speaker 2>was about June, so we got there in February. This

1:06:18.600 --> 1:06:21.920
<v Speaker 2>is in June. He leases the club. Me and Jeff

1:06:21.960 --> 1:06:25.120
<v Speaker 2>move into the back of this bar, and we're playing

1:06:25.160 --> 1:06:28.000
<v Speaker 2>five nights a week at this bar. And although he

1:06:28.040 --> 1:06:32.320
<v Speaker 2>had let we advertise it at Vanderbilt, so here comes

1:06:32.360 --> 1:06:35.320
<v Speaker 2>all the Vanderbilt students and the bikers, and I've got

1:06:35.320 --> 1:06:39.200
<v Speaker 2>a five night a week gig. That is how I

1:06:39.240 --> 1:06:39.880
<v Speaker 2>got started.

1:06:41.200 --> 1:06:47.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay, at that point, what was the dream, Bob? You know?

1:06:47.560 --> 1:06:53.240
<v Speaker 2>Man, I don't know, because I felt like I would

1:06:53.360 --> 1:06:57.400
<v Speaker 2>regularly think what am I doing here? Or people would

1:06:57.400 --> 1:07:00.320
<v Speaker 2>say to me, what are you doing here? You're like

1:07:00.400 --> 1:07:02.840
<v Speaker 2>a rock guitar player. Why are you well? You know,

1:07:03.120 --> 1:07:04.360
<v Speaker 2>I would go like, I don't know. I'm in this

1:07:04.440 --> 1:07:07.200
<v Speaker 2>blues band and everybody likes us, and I'm twenty one

1:07:07.240 --> 1:07:11.160
<v Speaker 2>years old. I don't know what I'm doing. And the

1:07:12.840 --> 1:07:19.240
<v Speaker 2>and we ended up having a quote unquote manager, and

1:07:19.280 --> 1:07:23.919
<v Speaker 2>we took a church bus and converted it and put

1:07:23.920 --> 1:07:26.520
<v Speaker 2>our ants in and played all around the South. We

1:07:26.560 --> 1:07:28.480
<v Speaker 2>had a little bit of a following. It was not

1:07:28.600 --> 1:07:31.120
<v Speaker 2>really a great band, it was, but it was a

1:07:31.160 --> 1:07:36.360
<v Speaker 2>great experience. And I don't know what I was doing.

1:07:36.400 --> 1:07:44.280
<v Speaker 2>But what ended up happening is that Bobby wisely, in

1:07:44.360 --> 1:07:47.560
<v Speaker 2>the early part of the week he would have songwriters

1:07:47.560 --> 1:07:50.680
<v Speaker 2>come play, like where they do the guitar poll, and

1:07:50.720 --> 1:07:53.280
<v Speaker 2>they'd be in a circle and it was a place

1:07:53.280 --> 1:07:55.920
<v Speaker 2>for them to come play. So I would do the

1:07:55.960 --> 1:07:59.320
<v Speaker 2>exact same thing where I would say, Hey, I play

1:07:59.320 --> 1:08:01.600
<v Speaker 2>in the week on I'm in the house band for

1:08:01.640 --> 1:08:04.480
<v Speaker 2>the weekends. Can I come back you up? And you know,

1:08:05.120 --> 1:08:08.400
<v Speaker 2>a songwriter would say, yeah, back me up. And so

1:08:09.560 --> 1:08:12.120
<v Speaker 2>the eventuality of that would be that one of those

1:08:12.160 --> 1:08:15.880
<v Speaker 2>songwriters would say, I'm going into the studio to make

1:08:15.920 --> 1:08:18.599
<v Speaker 2>a demo tape of my songs. Why don't you come play?

1:08:18.840 --> 1:08:21.880
<v Speaker 2>I'll pay you forty dollars And it's like, incredible, I

1:08:21.880 --> 1:08:24.479
<v Speaker 2>get to go to the studio. So that's how I

1:08:24.520 --> 1:08:26.000
<v Speaker 2>got into the studios.

1:08:26.880 --> 1:08:28.439
<v Speaker 1>So what ended up happening with Jeff.

1:08:31.560 --> 1:08:34.200
<v Speaker 2>What ended up happening with Jeff is we did about

1:08:34.240 --> 1:08:38.519
<v Speaker 2>a year hit that bar, maybe a year and a half,

1:08:38.560 --> 1:08:41.959
<v Speaker 2>and then it was just a disaster of a business

1:08:42.280 --> 1:08:43.880
<v Speaker 2>and you could see that it was not going to

1:08:43.920 --> 1:08:48.559
<v Speaker 2>work out. And Bobby was into drugs and selling drugs,

1:08:48.920 --> 1:08:53.240
<v Speaker 2>and Jeff, who was from a well to do family

1:08:53.880 --> 1:08:59.320
<v Speaker 2>and he got in with the biker crowd and started

1:08:59.360 --> 1:09:02.559
<v Speaker 2>shooting dough. And once he started shooting dope, he became

1:09:02.600 --> 1:09:06.280
<v Speaker 2>addicted and I would pick him up for gigs and

1:09:06.800 --> 1:09:09.600
<v Speaker 2>I would go into the house and they'd all be

1:09:09.880 --> 1:09:13.479
<v Speaker 2>half passed out with the needles, and it was a drag.

1:09:14.000 --> 1:09:19.080
<v Speaker 2>And he went to prison because he got caught selling

1:09:19.439 --> 1:09:23.200
<v Speaker 2>heroin or writing fake prescriptions. He went to prison twice.

1:09:23.560 --> 1:09:25.920
<v Speaker 2>One time got caught with heroin, the other time he

1:09:26.000 --> 1:09:29.400
<v Speaker 2>was writing fake scripts. He got out the second time

1:09:30.320 --> 1:09:35.080
<v Speaker 2>and immediately went and shot dope and overdosed and died.

1:09:35.840 --> 1:09:36.360
<v Speaker 2>Very sad.

1:09:39.439 --> 1:09:40.960
<v Speaker 1>Wow, that's a sad story.

1:09:42.240 --> 1:09:44.479
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, he was my mate.

1:09:44.840 --> 1:09:48.160
<v Speaker 1>Jumping back, you're working with songwriters in the studio? What's

1:09:48.200 --> 1:09:52.560
<v Speaker 1>the step after that?

1:09:52.560 --> 1:09:55.160
<v Speaker 2>That went on for a long for I mean I

1:09:55.200 --> 1:09:59.240
<v Speaker 2>was not I did not immediately get into being a

1:09:59.280 --> 1:10:02.439
<v Speaker 2>session player. It was really that I was in this

1:10:02.600 --> 1:10:08.160
<v Speaker 2>band and I would occasionally go into the studio with songwriters.

1:10:08.280 --> 1:10:11.600
<v Speaker 2>But maybe I had a tiny bit of a reputation.

1:10:12.680 --> 1:10:16.200
<v Speaker 2>But what happened is a couple of years after the

1:10:16.360 --> 1:10:23.200
<v Speaker 2>Bobby Bradford Blues Band, there were other bands around town.

1:10:23.680 --> 1:10:28.280
<v Speaker 2>There's this really great songwriter named Dave One who has

1:10:28.320 --> 1:10:34.080
<v Speaker 2>since passed away, and he had a hot band around town,

1:10:34.479 --> 1:10:37.400
<v Speaker 2>and I started playing with his band. And there was

1:10:37.439 --> 1:10:42.439
<v Speaker 2>a singer named Jimmy Hall who was in Wetwillie and

1:10:42.520 --> 1:10:44.799
<v Speaker 2>he moved to Nashville and he was playing gigs around.

1:10:45.160 --> 1:10:48.960
<v Speaker 2>So I found myself before I was a session guy.

1:10:49.040 --> 1:10:52.200
<v Speaker 2>I found myself being the guy that played in five

1:10:52.280 --> 1:10:55.120
<v Speaker 2>different bands. I was like twenty three, you know, I

1:10:55.120 --> 1:10:57.160
<v Speaker 2>played in a bunch of different bands. I was just

1:10:57.240 --> 1:11:01.080
<v Speaker 2>around town. So then Dave One would get a chance

1:11:01.120 --> 1:11:04.280
<v Speaker 2>to make another record, and he had a band called

1:11:04.280 --> 1:11:11.439
<v Speaker 2>the x Rays, and this writer named Don Schlitz who

1:11:11.520 --> 1:11:16.880
<v Speaker 2>wrote The Gambler. He produced that record, and I got

1:11:16.880 --> 1:11:19.320
<v Speaker 2>to play on the record, and I met Don and

1:11:19.360 --> 1:11:21.400
<v Speaker 2>then played on some stuff for Don, and then met

1:11:21.400 --> 1:11:24.400
<v Speaker 2>all the people from the publishing company he was with

1:11:24.560 --> 1:11:27.080
<v Speaker 2>and then played with them. And then I played with

1:11:27.280 --> 1:11:29.120
<v Speaker 2>three or four of the other bands I was in.

1:11:29.400 --> 1:11:31.760
<v Speaker 2>Somebody would go in and record, and I would show

1:11:31.840 --> 1:11:34.400
<v Speaker 2>up and record, but I was very much on the

1:11:34.439 --> 1:11:38.479
<v Speaker 2>outside of the session. It was still very much of

1:11:38.520 --> 1:11:45.240
<v Speaker 2>a good old boy kind of a closed thing. But eventually,

1:11:45.280 --> 1:11:49.839
<v Speaker 2>you know, or occasionally I would get called for something,

1:11:50.360 --> 1:11:55.080
<v Speaker 2>or I'd play on a songwriter's song, and that an

1:11:55.200 --> 1:11:59.599
<v Speaker 2>artist would cut that and the producer would say who's

1:11:59.680 --> 1:12:03.920
<v Speaker 2>playing that guitar? And they would the song and say, well,

1:12:04.280 --> 1:12:06.880
<v Speaker 2>say it was me, and I would be invited to

1:12:06.920 --> 1:12:10.479
<v Speaker 2>come over dub or track on that song. And that's

1:12:10.560 --> 1:12:14.439
<v Speaker 2>kind of how I made my way into the session scene.

1:12:14.640 --> 1:12:17.320
<v Speaker 1>Well, at what point did it turn the corner?

1:12:19.240 --> 1:12:27.080
<v Speaker 2>It turned the corner when I was in this band.

1:12:27.720 --> 1:12:31.519
<v Speaker 2>Two things happened. I got into this band. It was

1:12:31.520 --> 1:12:34.639
<v Speaker 2>a blues band called the Kingsnakes and we would play

1:12:34.640 --> 1:12:37.400
<v Speaker 2>at the Bluebird every Monday night. And the drummer was

1:12:37.479 --> 1:12:41.639
<v Speaker 2>James Stroud, who was a famous record producer and drummer

1:12:41.680 --> 1:12:46.200
<v Speaker 2>from Muscle Shoals and hear it's from Jackson actually, but

1:12:46.400 --> 1:12:50.000
<v Speaker 2>was in the Muscle Shoals scene. And the famous studio

1:12:50.040 --> 1:12:55.040
<v Speaker 2>player Glenn Wharf was on bass. And so we'd play

1:12:55.080 --> 1:12:59.120
<v Speaker 2>every Monday night and we made a little record and

1:12:59.680 --> 1:13:04.040
<v Speaker 2>that band became the band to see. Everybody would everybody

1:13:04.080 --> 1:13:05.880
<v Speaker 2>who was in town would be there on Monday night,

1:13:06.479 --> 1:13:10.559
<v Speaker 2>from you know, whoever, from Bonnie Rait to whoever they

1:13:10.880 --> 1:13:12.760
<v Speaker 2>somebody was in town, they would be there at see

1:13:12.840 --> 1:13:20.120
<v Speaker 2>us play. And so that and then I produced a

1:13:20.120 --> 1:13:24.280
<v Speaker 2>couple of demos on an artist named Alison Moore, and

1:13:24.720 --> 1:13:28.400
<v Speaker 2>she got a record deal on MCA and Tony Brown

1:13:28.640 --> 1:13:32.080
<v Speaker 2>signed her. And I made that record and played all

1:13:32.120 --> 1:13:36.360
<v Speaker 2>the guitars on it, and so Tony started to use me.

1:13:36.479 --> 1:13:41.320
<v Speaker 2>So right about the mid and late nineties, those two

1:13:41.360 --> 1:13:45.800
<v Speaker 2>things happened and I found myself playing on a lot

1:13:45.800 --> 1:13:46.880
<v Speaker 2>of records.

1:13:47.400 --> 1:13:50.800
<v Speaker 1>Okay, how did you meet Alison Moore? And how did

1:13:50.840 --> 1:13:52.840
<v Speaker 1>you say? I'm the guy that produced the demo?

1:13:54.720 --> 1:13:58.640
<v Speaker 2>I met Alison Moore because I had right before that,

1:14:00.320 --> 1:14:05.360
<v Speaker 2>I had There's this guy named Wally Wilson. I know

1:14:05.400 --> 1:14:07.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm probably saying all these names.

1:14:06.920 --> 1:14:10.320
<v Speaker 4>To your little I know the audience can do the

1:14:10.439 --> 1:14:12.960
<v Speaker 4>research in it. Yeah, yeah, who the hell are all

1:14:12.960 --> 1:14:16.600
<v Speaker 4>these people he's talking about? So this guy who was

1:14:16.640 --> 1:14:20.320
<v Speaker 4>in the Kingsnakes with me named Wally Wilson, who is

1:14:20.640 --> 1:14:23.400
<v Speaker 4>who was a mentor? He was a songwriting mentor to me.

1:14:23.720 --> 1:14:27.599
<v Speaker 4>It's a lot older than me. And you remember the movie, uh,

1:14:28.040 --> 1:14:32.120
<v Speaker 4>The Apostle with Robert Duvall. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you

1:14:32.160 --> 1:14:34.960
<v Speaker 4>ever see that movie where he's this kind of wild

1:14:35.080 --> 1:14:38.720
<v Speaker 4>guy that picks fights, and so Wally Wilson is a

1:14:38.800 --> 1:14:44.280
<v Speaker 4>cross between the Apostle and fog Horn. Leg Horn He's

1:14:44.320 --> 1:14:50.000
<v Speaker 4>this Texas loudmouth character. And he was in the band

1:14:50.080 --> 1:14:58.160
<v Speaker 4>and we wrote songs together, and he somehow met Aaron Jacovis,

1:14:58.640 --> 1:15:04.360
<v Speaker 4>who was an a and are Virgin, and Aaron was

1:15:04.600 --> 1:15:08.360
<v Speaker 4>hanging around Nashville because Nashville was starting to change and

1:15:08.439 --> 1:15:11.400
<v Speaker 4>things were starting to happen. So Aaron's hanging around Nashville.

1:15:11.960 --> 1:15:15.920
<v Speaker 4>Wally is writing for Sony Tree. He's writing at Sony.

1:15:16.040 --> 1:15:19.040
<v Speaker 4>So Aaron is, I guess we're looking for songs for somebody,

1:15:19.200 --> 1:15:23.040
<v Speaker 4>because Wally is the most likable guy you will ever meet.

1:15:23.439 --> 1:15:25.360
<v Speaker 4>And I mean, he's just this, He's a character, and

1:15:25.400 --> 1:15:30.959
<v Speaker 4>he says the craziest shit. So Aaron and Wally become friends,

1:15:31.280 --> 1:15:38.880
<v Speaker 4>and Aaron says, Aaron says, I've been assigned Joan Biez.

1:15:39.760 --> 1:15:42.599
<v Speaker 4>What am I gonna do with Joan byas she's on Virgin,

1:15:42.680 --> 1:15:45.960
<v Speaker 4>I don't know, And and Wally goes, well, we should

1:15:46.000 --> 1:15:47.280
<v Speaker 4>make her record and write.

1:15:47.000 --> 1:15:53.600
<v Speaker 2>All her songs. And so Wally says, We're going to

1:15:53.640 --> 1:15:56.840
<v Speaker 2>San Francisco, by God, and we're gonna go write songs

1:15:56.880 --> 1:16:01.160
<v Speaker 2>with Joan Bias. This is way, he said it. So

1:16:01.160 --> 1:16:07.400
<v Speaker 2>so Sony Publishing bought us tickets. We went and got

1:16:08.560 --> 1:16:13.120
<v Speaker 2>so we went to Joan's house and hung out with

1:16:13.160 --> 1:16:16.920
<v Speaker 2>her and wrote songs with her, and Wally's going, JONK,

1:16:17.479 --> 1:16:21.160
<v Speaker 2>we're going to produce your record. And Joan just loved

1:16:21.200 --> 1:16:24.120
<v Speaker 2>Wally and said okay. And so when we made a

1:16:24.160 --> 1:16:26.719
<v Speaker 2>record on Joan with Aaron, and we ended up making

1:16:26.800 --> 1:16:35.559
<v Speaker 2>two records with her, and so Aaron after that said hey,

1:16:35.720 --> 1:16:38.960
<v Speaker 2>I heard the singer name Alison Moore and she's amazing.

1:16:39.439 --> 1:16:42.200
<v Speaker 2>Why don't you cut some sides on her? I said great,

1:16:42.360 --> 1:16:45.360
<v Speaker 2>And so he also spoke to Tony Brown, so Tony

1:16:45.400 --> 1:16:50.320
<v Speaker 2>Brown was into signing her. So Tony Brown, through Aaron Jacovis,

1:16:50.560 --> 1:16:55.200
<v Speaker 2>paid for me to take Alison into the studio to

1:16:55.280 --> 1:16:58.240
<v Speaker 2>cut some songs. And one of the songs we cut

1:16:58.560 --> 1:17:02.479
<v Speaker 2>was called Soft Place to Fall, which ended up in

1:17:02.520 --> 1:17:07.880
<v Speaker 2>the movie The Horse Whisperer and was nominated for an

1:17:07.920 --> 1:17:13.240
<v Speaker 2>Academy Award. So that's that's that's how I got started.

1:17:13.439 --> 1:17:14.639
<v Speaker 2>That's how I got that gig.

1:17:15.320 --> 1:17:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, most musicians, especially those who are not the front person,

1:17:21.600 --> 1:17:26.720
<v Speaker 1>are incredible networkers. Were you working it in Nashville? Were

1:17:26.760 --> 1:17:31.000
<v Speaker 1>you getting to know everybody, hang everybody, talking to everybody.

1:17:31.680 --> 1:17:36.519
<v Speaker 2>No, I've never been a good networker. I just always

1:17:36.520 --> 1:17:38.640
<v Speaker 2>feel and I did go up to people and say hey,

1:17:38.680 --> 1:17:40.680
<v Speaker 2>I'd love to play with you, and I still do that,

1:17:41.280 --> 1:17:44.559
<v Speaker 2>but I am not a networker. I am not good

1:17:44.560 --> 1:17:46.760
<v Speaker 2>at that. I think it would be fair to.

1:17:46.680 --> 1:17:53.200
<v Speaker 1>Say, Okay, so you're playing the guitar and now through

1:17:53.240 --> 1:17:56.760
<v Speaker 1>Wally you get this opportunity. At what point do you say, well,

1:17:56.760 --> 1:17:58.400
<v Speaker 1>maybe I want to be a record producer.

1:18:00.400 --> 1:18:03.400
<v Speaker 2>That was it. I think when we had our band,

1:18:04.280 --> 1:18:06.880
<v Speaker 2>The King Snakes and we actually made a record for

1:18:07.040 --> 1:18:10.240
<v Speaker 2>CURB Records. We got a record deal, but it was

1:18:10.360 --> 1:18:12.519
<v Speaker 2>kind of ridiculous because nobody would go on the road.

1:18:12.560 --> 1:18:15.040
<v Speaker 2>They were all I mean, our drummer was the head

1:18:15.080 --> 1:18:19.400
<v Speaker 2>of us, the head of CBS Records. It's ridiculous there

1:18:19.479 --> 1:18:21.360
<v Speaker 2>was but we made a record and we actually played

1:18:21.360 --> 1:18:23.760
<v Speaker 2>a couple of festivals, but it was there's no way

1:18:23.800 --> 1:18:27.160
<v Speaker 2>we're going to go on the road. And so I

1:18:27.280 --> 1:18:30.600
<v Speaker 2>was really involved in the production of that record and

1:18:31.040 --> 1:18:34.959
<v Speaker 2>just loved it and felt like I don't want to

1:18:35.000 --> 1:18:37.640
<v Speaker 2>not play guitar and just produce records. I want to

1:18:37.640 --> 1:18:39.800
<v Speaker 2>play and I like to write song, but I want

1:18:39.840 --> 1:18:43.960
<v Speaker 2>to do this too. So I started doing it, and

1:18:44.040 --> 1:18:48.439
<v Speaker 2>we're in this story to get married. I get married

1:18:48.800 --> 1:18:58.439
<v Speaker 2>in the place where were before Joan Biaz. There's sort

1:18:58.439 --> 1:19:00.760
<v Speaker 2>of a friend group, you know, how you come up

1:19:00.800 --> 1:19:03.679
<v Speaker 2>with your group of friends, and you know, we had

1:19:04.080 --> 1:19:07.320
<v Speaker 2>there was a lot of these songwriter guys. It was

1:19:07.360 --> 1:19:10.080
<v Speaker 2>always a sort of left of center folks, you know.

1:19:10.560 --> 1:19:13.960
<v Speaker 2>And Ashley Cleveland was in that friend group, and everybody

1:19:14.000 --> 1:19:16.760
<v Speaker 2>loved her. She's an amazing singer, and everybody's talking about, Oh,

1:19:16.800 --> 1:19:22.240
<v Speaker 2>she's so great. So we're we're in the same friend

1:19:22.320 --> 1:19:25.719
<v Speaker 2>group and we're all coming up together. And Ashley's writing

1:19:25.760 --> 1:19:28.760
<v Speaker 2>for Warner Chapel and she's making demos and I get

1:19:28.760 --> 1:19:31.960
<v Speaker 2>to play on her demos, and then she starts playing gigs.

1:19:31.960 --> 1:19:33.559
<v Speaker 2>And that was another one of the gigs I had

1:19:33.680 --> 1:19:36.559
<v Speaker 2>was I was locally playing with her. She didn't travel

1:19:36.560 --> 1:19:40.000
<v Speaker 2>and play gigs. She had a small daughter, but she

1:19:40.040 --> 1:19:45.240
<v Speaker 2>had a publishing deal on Warner Chapel and she's playing

1:19:45.280 --> 1:19:47.680
<v Speaker 2>around town and I'm in her band. But we're not

1:19:47.800 --> 1:19:52.519
<v Speaker 2>a couple. We're just friends. And she's seeing other people

1:19:52.720 --> 1:19:55.519
<v Speaker 2>and I'm seeing other people. And we had this sort

1:19:55.560 --> 1:19:58.439
<v Speaker 2>of unique experience where we were you know, you're playing

1:19:58.479 --> 1:20:01.760
<v Speaker 2>a band with somebody of your friends, give each other

1:20:01.800 --> 1:20:04.240
<v Speaker 2>a hard time, and I always say, like, you know,

1:20:04.360 --> 1:20:06.680
<v Speaker 2>what a loser that guy as you were with, you know,

1:20:06.680 --> 1:20:08.559
<v Speaker 2>And she'd give me a hard time about who I

1:20:08.640 --> 1:20:10.680
<v Speaker 2>was seeing, and we just we were buds for a

1:20:10.800 --> 1:20:15.440
<v Speaker 2>long time. And then she got a record deal on Atlantic,

1:20:16.360 --> 1:20:18.720
<v Speaker 2>and I was fortunate to get to play on her

1:20:18.800 --> 1:20:24.280
<v Speaker 2>record because I was in her band, and we sort

1:20:24.320 --> 1:20:28.040
<v Speaker 2>of fell for each other while she was making that record,

1:20:28.360 --> 1:20:35.439
<v Speaker 2>and we after our first date, we got engaged two

1:20:35.520 --> 1:20:40.840
<v Speaker 2>weeks later. So all of our friends we were like, okay,

1:20:40.920 --> 1:20:43.800
<v Speaker 2>wait a minute, you're like what you know, because they

1:20:43.840 --> 1:20:45.720
<v Speaker 2>didn't even know that we were together, you know, and

1:20:45.760 --> 1:20:48.160
<v Speaker 2>we were all really good friends, but I was sneaking

1:20:48.200 --> 1:20:51.080
<v Speaker 2>over to her house at night and nobody knew it,

1:20:51.120 --> 1:20:51.680
<v Speaker 2>you know, for a.

1:20:51.600 --> 1:20:52.200
<v Speaker 1>Couple of weeks.

1:20:52.200 --> 1:20:53.760
<v Speaker 2>And then we were a couple and we said, well,

1:20:53.800 --> 1:20:56.599
<v Speaker 2>we're getting married, you know, and they're like, this is

1:20:57.479 --> 1:21:01.840
<v Speaker 2>not a good idea, you know. And thirty five years later,

1:21:02.040 --> 1:21:03.040
<v Speaker 2>you know, we're still married.

1:21:11.360 --> 1:21:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you're married. She has a major labeled deal. How

1:21:15.800 --> 1:21:18.639
<v Speaker 1>long after? She says she has a young daughter. Now

1:21:18.680 --> 1:21:22.439
<v Speaker 1>you have to support a family. Do you feel like responsibility,

1:21:22.560 --> 1:21:25.120
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm not like a drifter anymore, I got to

1:21:25.160 --> 1:21:26.480
<v Speaker 1>go out and earn a living.

1:21:28.520 --> 1:21:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Bob, I don't no. I think I was already kind

1:21:32.200 --> 1:21:35.200
<v Speaker 2>of doing pretty good by that time. I just bought

1:21:35.240 --> 1:21:36.080
<v Speaker 2>my first house.

1:21:36.840 --> 1:21:38.240
<v Speaker 1>She must be doing pretty good.

1:21:39.400 --> 1:21:42.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I had bought my first house. I was doing okay.

1:21:43.000 --> 1:21:48.800
<v Speaker 2>And the weird thing about in Nashville, you know, in

1:21:48.840 --> 1:21:55.960
<v Speaker 2>the eighties and early nineties, is you could play gigs

1:21:56.000 --> 1:21:59.000
<v Speaker 2>five nights a week in clubs and get paid. I

1:21:59.080 --> 1:22:04.000
<v Speaker 2>supposed now, like it is everywhere, you have to wait

1:22:04.040 --> 1:22:06.800
<v Speaker 2>six months to get a gig. There's five bands on

1:22:06.840 --> 1:22:10.960
<v Speaker 2>the bill, no one gets paid. The audience is all

1:22:11.000 --> 1:22:14.320
<v Speaker 2>the other people waiting to play and their friends. So

1:22:14.680 --> 1:22:18.000
<v Speaker 2>but back then, you know, so I was doing that,

1:22:18.040 --> 1:22:21.240
<v Speaker 2>and I was starting to get record dates, and I

1:22:21.280 --> 1:22:24.400
<v Speaker 2>had enough that I bought the small house. So I

1:22:24.520 --> 1:22:28.880
<v Speaker 2>was kind of I never really That's another thing where

1:22:28.880 --> 1:22:31.479
<v Speaker 2>it just I just sort of rolled with it.

1:22:31.520 --> 1:22:34.120
<v Speaker 1>I think, So, how many kids do you have at

1:22:34.160 --> 1:22:35.200
<v Speaker 1>this point?

1:22:35.640 --> 1:22:39.559
<v Speaker 2>We have three? So her daughter she had before we

1:22:39.560 --> 1:22:45.080
<v Speaker 2>were together, her name is Becca. I adopted her because

1:22:45.120 --> 1:22:47.559
<v Speaker 2>the dad was never in the picture. And then we

1:22:47.640 --> 1:22:52.720
<v Speaker 2>had two together. And an interesting thing is the you know,

1:22:53.280 --> 1:22:56.519
<v Speaker 2>a good year before we were a couple. She did

1:22:56.520 --> 1:22:59.880
<v Speaker 2>a showcase at a bar for I'm at erdigin to

1:23:00.040 --> 1:23:03.639
<v Speaker 2>at her deal, and we sound checked in the afternoon

1:23:03.680 --> 1:23:06.479
<v Speaker 2>and an Ahmet and his entourage were going to come.

1:23:07.080 --> 1:23:10.719
<v Speaker 2>And it was a big deal, I mean a huge

1:23:10.720 --> 1:23:13.759
<v Speaker 2>deal for Ashley. Was a good like that's like career,

1:23:14.040 --> 1:23:16.679
<v Speaker 2>you know, a door opening, you know, a major moment

1:23:16.720 --> 1:23:21.479
<v Speaker 2>in her life. So after we sound checked, I said, hey,

1:23:21.560 --> 1:23:24.760
<v Speaker 2>I'll take your daughter and we'll go to McDonald's. And

1:23:24.840 --> 1:23:28.680
<v Speaker 2>so I took her daughter to McDonald's. And then I

1:23:28.720 --> 1:23:32.519
<v Speaker 2>had just bought the house but hadn't moved in, and

1:23:32.560 --> 1:23:35.200
<v Speaker 2>it was close by this bar, and so I took

1:23:35.320 --> 1:23:37.639
<v Speaker 2>the daughter and said, hey, just so we can drive

1:23:37.720 --> 1:23:40.280
<v Speaker 2>around and you can eat your drink or shake and whatever.

1:23:40.840 --> 1:23:43.760
<v Speaker 2>Here's this house I'm going to buy. And a year

1:23:43.880 --> 1:23:47.400
<v Speaker 2>later she's living in that house, which is kind of

1:23:47.400 --> 1:23:50.720
<v Speaker 2>an amazing, kind of an amazing thing, you know. To me,

1:23:50.760 --> 1:23:51.439
<v Speaker 2>it was amazing.

1:23:52.160 --> 1:23:53.960
<v Speaker 1>What are your three kids up to today?

1:23:56.320 --> 1:24:01.879
<v Speaker 2>That oldest daughter, she had a long run of addiction,

1:24:02.160 --> 1:24:05.760
<v Speaker 2>as did Ashley, but she's doing really, really great now.

1:24:05.800 --> 1:24:09.440
<v Speaker 2>She actually works at an addiction center in San Francisco.

1:24:10.479 --> 1:24:14.800
<v Speaker 2>My son is an actor in Brooklyn. He has his

1:24:15.000 --> 1:24:19.240
<v Speaker 2>Masters in theater and he's getting a few things to doing. Okay.

1:24:19.640 --> 1:24:23.439
<v Speaker 2>And then my youngest is also in New York and

1:24:23.560 --> 1:24:26.600
<v Speaker 2>runs the grant writing program at Columbia.

1:24:27.040 --> 1:24:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Wow. Was Ashley addicted when you were with her?

1:24:32.800 --> 1:24:36.360
<v Speaker 2>No, she had actually recently gotten out of treatment. But

1:24:36.640 --> 1:24:41.080
<v Speaker 2>after we got together, and you know, if you're in

1:24:41.200 --> 1:24:45.240
<v Speaker 2>AA and NA, it's never about what the other person does,

1:24:45.400 --> 1:24:48.200
<v Speaker 2>it's about what it's really about.

1:24:48.400 --> 1:24:48.680
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1:24:49.120 --> 1:24:52.600
<v Speaker 2>It's like, for instance, we have people over, we'll have

1:24:52.680 --> 1:24:55.719
<v Speaker 2>some wine and serve wine. We won't drink wine, but well,

1:24:55.760 --> 1:24:57.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, that's just what. So we would go out

1:24:58.000 --> 1:25:00.559
<v Speaker 2>and I would occasionally have a glass wine. I never

1:25:00.600 --> 1:25:03.120
<v Speaker 2>really drank much. And actually we always say, you have

1:25:03.160 --> 1:25:05.760
<v Speaker 2>yourself a glass of wine. I'm in AA, but it's

1:25:05.800 --> 1:25:10.479
<v Speaker 2>totally okay, And so I did that. But it ended

1:25:10.560 --> 1:25:14.800
<v Speaker 2>up that, like right after we got married, she was like, oh,

1:25:14.800 --> 1:25:16.360
<v Speaker 2>I guess it's okay if I have a glass of

1:25:16.360 --> 1:25:21.759
<v Speaker 2>wine too, And it very quickly went down the tubes

1:25:21.800 --> 1:25:26.080
<v Speaker 2>from there and and but she pulled out and she's

1:25:26.120 --> 1:25:31.479
<v Speaker 2>been sober for almost thirty years. Yeah, she's doing great.

1:25:32.000 --> 1:25:36.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So you've been talking about this studio that you

1:25:36.479 --> 1:25:39.760
<v Speaker 1>have when did you build this studio and to what

1:25:39.840 --> 1:25:42.200
<v Speaker 1>the level is it built out? And what do you

1:25:42.240 --> 1:25:42.599
<v Speaker 1>do there?

1:25:44.680 --> 1:25:47.400
<v Speaker 2>I got this. We bought this house at the end

1:25:47.400 --> 1:25:50.960
<v Speaker 2>of nineteen ninety six, and we bought it half built.

1:25:51.880 --> 1:25:55.479
<v Speaker 2>And it's one of those houses that's on a hill.

1:25:56.000 --> 1:25:58.360
<v Speaker 2>So from the front it's two stories and from the

1:25:58.400 --> 1:26:01.920
<v Speaker 2>back it's three. So the lower level, which is the

1:26:01.960 --> 1:26:05.080
<v Speaker 2>same size as the main level of the house, I

1:26:05.160 --> 1:26:08.400
<v Speaker 2>made into a studio like a I slowly built it

1:26:08.439 --> 1:26:10.400
<v Speaker 2>like a couple of years after we moved in here,

1:26:10.720 --> 1:26:13.479
<v Speaker 2>and it has a drum room and a vocal room.

1:26:13.760 --> 1:26:16.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's a full on studio. And so we

1:26:16.840 --> 1:26:22.040
<v Speaker 2>made after Ashley's first record, we made her records here

1:26:23.800 --> 1:26:26.800
<v Speaker 2>a lot. I do a lot of overdubs here. All

1:26:26.800 --> 1:26:28.560
<v Speaker 2>of the film and TV stuff I do, I do

1:26:28.800 --> 1:26:29.880
<v Speaker 2>top to bottom here.

1:26:30.400 --> 1:26:31.080
<v Speaker 1>We did the.

1:26:31.080 --> 1:26:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Chesney Bands record here. I just produced a song on

1:26:37.280 --> 1:26:42.120
<v Speaker 2>a really interesting guy that comes out Monday, and we

1:26:42.160 --> 1:26:46.080
<v Speaker 2>cut the whole track here. And so I'll work here.

1:26:46.880 --> 1:26:50.880
<v Speaker 2>I'll always do my overdubs here, like I'll do the vocals,

1:26:51.040 --> 1:26:52.840
<v Speaker 2>and if I need to prepare the drums, I got

1:26:52.880 --> 1:26:55.760
<v Speaker 2>a great, great drum room. We'll redo the drums but

1:26:55.800 --> 1:26:57.880
<v Speaker 2>if I have the budget, I like to go to

1:26:58.000 --> 1:27:00.800
<v Speaker 2>the Sound and Porium or Ocean Way and cut my

1:27:00.880 --> 1:27:04.320
<v Speaker 2>basic tracks and then bring it back over here. But

1:27:04.439 --> 1:27:09.120
<v Speaker 2>I'm you know, Bob, the budgets, they're smaller, and especially

1:27:09.120 --> 1:27:12.599
<v Speaker 2>for the stuff I do, a lot of times I'll

1:27:12.640 --> 1:27:16.360
<v Speaker 2>just make the whole thing over here because it's affordable

1:27:16.800 --> 1:27:18.680
<v Speaker 2>and I can still get paid if I do it

1:27:18.720 --> 1:27:19.240
<v Speaker 2>over here.

1:27:19.920 --> 1:27:21.559
<v Speaker 1>And what kind of equipment do you have in the room.

1:27:22.200 --> 1:27:26.120
<v Speaker 2>I have pro tools, which is how I'm recording this now.

1:27:26.600 --> 1:27:29.400
<v Speaker 2>And I have really really good mic pres I have

1:27:29.479 --> 1:27:31.840
<v Speaker 2>some vintage mics, I have some newer mics. I've got

1:27:31.920 --> 1:27:34.760
<v Speaker 2>vintage amps. I've got a piano in the other room.

1:27:35.760 --> 1:27:37.519
<v Speaker 2>I've got some I got some pretty decent gear.

1:27:39.400 --> 1:27:44.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what was it like when Ashley lost her major

1:27:44.400 --> 1:27:49.839
<v Speaker 1>label deal? Uh?

1:27:50.520 --> 1:27:57.559
<v Speaker 2>I think for her, her entire recording career was always hard.

1:27:57.720 --> 1:28:02.559
<v Speaker 2>It never really worked out. I remember she had her

1:28:03.760 --> 1:28:07.519
<v Speaker 2>she had her first record, and she lost that deal.

1:28:08.160 --> 1:28:12.400
<v Speaker 2>Then she got signed to this label called Reunion, which

1:28:12.439 --> 1:28:15.800
<v Speaker 2>was a Christian label and was part of Arista. So

1:28:15.920 --> 1:28:18.840
<v Speaker 2>the idea was, Okay, we know she's a Christian artist

1:28:18.920 --> 1:28:21.439
<v Speaker 2>and her songs are spiritual.

1:28:21.320 --> 1:28:24.000
<v Speaker 1>At least will do a cod.

1:28:23.880 --> 1:28:31.120
<v Speaker 2>Deal with Arista, and so that record, that one was

1:28:31.200 --> 1:28:34.200
<v Speaker 2>nominated for a Grammy, and we went to the Grammys

1:28:35.160 --> 1:28:40.479
<v Speaker 2>and Clive was there, and Clive came up to us

1:28:40.479 --> 1:28:43.479
<v Speaker 2>and said, man, I love your voice, but you have

1:28:43.520 --> 1:28:49.840
<v Speaker 2>to sing about God, and as she was going, well, yes,

1:28:49.840 --> 1:28:53.439
<v Speaker 2>actually I do. You know. So it's always been this

1:28:53.640 --> 1:28:57.880
<v Speaker 2>thing where it was always a struggle. It was it

1:28:58.080 --> 1:29:04.360
<v Speaker 2>never nothing really ever worked out. I would probably say

1:29:05.000 --> 1:29:06.599
<v Speaker 2>I think she'd be okay with me saying that.

1:29:07.200 --> 1:29:09.759
<v Speaker 1>And what's the status of her music like today?

1:29:11.200 --> 1:29:15.600
<v Speaker 2>Well, you know, through the different record labels in the

1:29:15.720 --> 1:29:18.599
<v Speaker 2>making records, she got three Grammys and so she had

1:29:18.600 --> 1:29:22.560
<v Speaker 2>a lot of critical acclaim and which is very satisfying

1:29:22.720 --> 1:29:25.920
<v Speaker 2>and made her feel like the work she was doing

1:29:26.040 --> 1:29:28.360
<v Speaker 2>was worthwhile. I love some of the records we made.

1:29:28.720 --> 1:29:32.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm very proud of the work we did. About fifteen

1:29:33.040 --> 1:29:39.439
<v Speaker 2>years ago, her voice started to change and singing became

1:29:40.520 --> 1:29:44.880
<v Speaker 2>not as much fun, and so she sort of stopped

1:29:44.880 --> 1:29:51.160
<v Speaker 2>doing it. But at the same time, she wrote a

1:29:51.240 --> 1:29:54.400
<v Speaker 2>book called Little Black Sheep, and it wasn't like a

1:29:54.439 --> 1:29:59.439
<v Speaker 2>big hit, but it got some notice and did well,

1:29:59.479 --> 1:30:03.000
<v Speaker 2>and she wrote a second book and she started to

1:30:03.160 --> 1:30:08.800
<v Speaker 2>lead retreats. She would do recovery retreats, women's retreats, religious retreats,

1:30:10.280 --> 1:30:13.120
<v Speaker 2>and she also works at a church now and is

1:30:13.160 --> 1:30:14.320
<v Speaker 2>a spiritual counselor.

1:30:15.080 --> 1:30:16.120
<v Speaker 1>So her.

1:30:17.840 --> 1:30:27.479
<v Speaker 3>I without a doubt her second career has been more

1:30:27.520 --> 1:30:30.040
<v Speaker 3>successful and more satisfying than her first.

1:30:30.560 --> 1:30:31.920
<v Speaker 2>She's really in a great space.

1:30:32.840 --> 1:30:37.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you moved to Nashville in the seventies. What's it

1:30:37.360 --> 1:30:40.280
<v Speaker 1>like being a Jew in Nashville then? And what's it

1:30:40.360 --> 1:30:42.120
<v Speaker 1>like being a Jew in Nashville today.

1:30:45.720 --> 1:30:54.439
<v Speaker 2>I think back then it was like it made me

1:30:54.479 --> 1:30:59.200
<v Speaker 2>feel like an outsider. I never really got much discrimination.

1:31:00.000 --> 1:31:03.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean occasionally somebody would say something in the good

1:31:03.400 --> 1:31:07.800
<v Speaker 2>old boy world, you know, but I think with musicians

1:31:08.000 --> 1:31:11.080
<v Speaker 2>were musicians and we're all in it, you know, it's

1:31:11.120 --> 1:31:14.599
<v Speaker 2>a brotherhood and that like there was this keyboard player

1:31:14.600 --> 1:31:17.920
<v Speaker 2>from Muscle Sholes. It was actually originally from New York,

1:31:17.960 --> 1:31:20.639
<v Speaker 2>but he made his name and Muscle shows named Steve

1:31:20.720 --> 1:31:24.559
<v Speaker 2>Nathan who who was Jewish, and he came up and

1:31:24.680 --> 1:31:27.200
<v Speaker 2>was playing and there were a few of us and

1:31:27.280 --> 1:31:30.760
<v Speaker 2>it's like if you played good, and I don't think

1:31:30.800 --> 1:31:35.840
<v Speaker 2>anybody really cared, honestly, And now it's just it's wide open.

1:31:35.920 --> 1:31:41.080
<v Speaker 1>Now, Yeah, you've been in Nashville nearly fifty years. How

1:31:41.200 --> 1:31:43.639
<v Speaker 1>is Nashville The town changed.

1:31:45.720 --> 1:31:53.640
<v Speaker 2>It's night and day. It's so completely incredibly different, and

1:31:53.680 --> 1:31:56.040
<v Speaker 2>there's some good things and there's some not good things.

1:31:56.520 --> 1:32:04.240
<v Speaker 2>The it was this kind of small, sleepy town that

1:32:04.360 --> 1:32:10.479
<v Speaker 2>had some artists, little corners of artistry, and there was

1:32:10.520 --> 1:32:13.960
<v Speaker 2>the publishing business and all the country songwriters and the

1:32:14.080 --> 1:32:18.559
<v Speaker 2>record making and but it was a sleepy little town.

1:32:19.120 --> 1:32:23.439
<v Speaker 2>And now it's like the number one tourist destination. They're

1:32:23.560 --> 1:32:27.559
<v Speaker 2>they're blowing up buildings, property has gone through the roof,

1:32:29.640 --> 1:32:35.920
<v Speaker 2>they've overbuilt. It's kind of a mess. So there's great

1:32:35.920 --> 1:32:38.680
<v Speaker 2>stuff about it. There's a lot of energy here and

1:32:38.840 --> 1:32:41.120
<v Speaker 2>you know, I you know, and I read in your

1:32:41.840 --> 1:32:45.120
<v Speaker 2>emails you talk about, you know, the country music is

1:32:45.200 --> 1:32:48.559
<v Speaker 2>kind of the thing, and so there's a lot of

1:32:48.680 --> 1:32:50.640
<v Speaker 2>energy in that. And there's a lot of people that

1:32:50.760 --> 1:32:53.599
<v Speaker 2>come here and there's a lot of great people doing

1:32:53.640 --> 1:32:59.800
<v Speaker 2>great stuff. But it's it's it's a little bit like

1:33:01.200 --> 1:33:03.800
<v Speaker 2>how can I say, It's like we've gotten a little

1:33:03.800 --> 1:33:07.000
<v Speaker 2>bit too big for the size we are. It's a

1:33:07.040 --> 1:33:08.040
<v Speaker 2>little out of control.

1:33:09.600 --> 1:33:13.200
<v Speaker 1>And tell me how the music business has changed in

1:33:13.240 --> 1:33:14.360
<v Speaker 1>this interim.

1:33:15.880 --> 1:33:22.480
<v Speaker 2>Uh, I think in Nashville, as opposed to some other places,

1:33:22.920 --> 1:33:28.559
<v Speaker 2>it's fairly healthy. I think the record companies don't know

1:33:28.640 --> 1:33:37.479
<v Speaker 2>what to do the I think that it's kind of

1:33:37.560 --> 1:33:40.120
<v Speaker 2>a mess, and that they don't know how to sell

1:33:40.160 --> 1:33:45.439
<v Speaker 2>records and artists don't know how to get across. I

1:33:45.439 --> 1:33:50.920
<v Speaker 2>almost feel like that the quote unquote country music industry

1:33:51.760 --> 1:33:58.320
<v Speaker 2>is probably more messed up than the Americana indie industry,

1:33:58.520 --> 1:34:05.000
<v Speaker 2>which is also here, is huge, right, They're thriving and

1:34:05.000 --> 1:34:08.040
<v Speaker 2>and you know, there's some country records that are doing

1:34:08.160 --> 1:34:12.840
<v Speaker 2>really good, you know, and but it's kind of a mess.

1:34:13.120 --> 1:34:17.840
<v Speaker 2>And from the musicians standpoint, we get paid less for

1:34:17.960 --> 1:34:24.880
<v Speaker 2>doing more work. So yeah, it's I mean, it's that's

1:34:24.880 --> 1:34:28.080
<v Speaker 2>sort of a fractured answer, but it's kind of a

1:34:28.120 --> 1:34:29.000
<v Speaker 2>fractured place.

1:34:30.120 --> 1:34:34.000
<v Speaker 1>And what about the old saw of you know, writing

1:34:34.120 --> 1:34:37.559
<v Speaker 1>gigs and music grow, et cetera. What's the status of

1:34:37.560 --> 1:34:38.120
<v Speaker 1>that today?

1:34:39.080 --> 1:34:42.920
<v Speaker 2>The writing thing is, you don't it's hard to get

1:34:42.960 --> 1:34:45.040
<v Speaker 2>a publishing deal and get paid to write. Where it

1:34:45.160 --> 1:34:47.200
<v Speaker 2>used to be, you'd get a publishing deal, you'd get

1:34:47.320 --> 1:34:50.000
<v Speaker 2>fifty grand a year, and you'd write songs and they'd

1:34:50.000 --> 1:34:52.680
<v Speaker 2>pay for your demos. And you'd have a band, and

1:34:52.720 --> 1:34:55.800
<v Speaker 2>there was a whole industry of the younger players.

1:34:55.439 --> 1:34:56.040
<v Speaker 1>That come up.

1:34:56.320 --> 1:35:00.080
<v Speaker 2>You play on Sony demos and Warner Chapel demos and

1:35:00.080 --> 1:35:04.400
<v Speaker 2>and uh, that's what you did. That is completely gone.

1:35:04.760 --> 1:35:08.600
<v Speaker 2>And it's completely gone because they don't pay the songwriters

1:35:08.880 --> 1:35:11.160
<v Speaker 2>for the most part, and they have to make their

1:35:11.200 --> 1:35:14.680
<v Speaker 2>own demos because there's no budget to take a band

1:35:14.800 --> 1:35:17.880
<v Speaker 2>into the studio, so you have to use pro tools

1:35:17.960 --> 1:35:21.080
<v Speaker 2>and ableton and logic and make your own demos. And

1:35:21.120 --> 1:35:24.800
<v Speaker 2>then in the last year there's this thing which really

1:35:24.840 --> 1:35:27.360
<v Speaker 2>we could have a whole separate discussion on called Suno

1:35:28.000 --> 1:35:30.160
<v Speaker 2>s U n O. Have you heard of that? Yeah,

1:35:30.880 --> 1:35:36.320
<v Speaker 2>yeah you can. What songwriters do is you take you

1:35:37.160 --> 1:35:41.439
<v Speaker 2>even on your iPhone, you sing the song and play

1:35:41.439 --> 1:35:45.559
<v Speaker 2>your guitar and input into so into Suno, and in

1:35:45.600 --> 1:35:49.559
<v Speaker 2>thirty seconds it spits out a full blown demo and

1:35:51.000 --> 1:35:55.639
<v Speaker 2>they're not bad. They're just not bad. So I've played

1:35:55.640 --> 1:36:01.640
<v Speaker 2>on a number of things recently where you hear the

1:36:01.680 --> 1:36:04.240
<v Speaker 2>song writer's demo and go, oh, it's a Sono demo,

1:36:04.360 --> 1:36:10.360
<v Speaker 2>you know right away. And the one particular experience I

1:36:10.400 --> 1:36:13.760
<v Speaker 2>had was for Chesney, had somebody pitched him a song

1:36:13.800 --> 1:36:16.600
<v Speaker 2>that he really liked. It's like weeks ago, we go

1:36:16.680 --> 1:36:19.000
<v Speaker 2>into the studio and he plays us a song and go,

1:36:19.400 --> 1:36:23.920
<v Speaker 2>oh shit, it's a sono demo. And the problem with

1:36:24.040 --> 1:36:27.840
<v Speaker 2>it for us as the players is that a lot

1:36:27.880 --> 1:36:30.120
<v Speaker 2>of times it'll play, it'll come up with a thing

1:36:30.160 --> 1:36:32.680
<v Speaker 2>that's sort of a steal guitar but not really and

1:36:32.720 --> 1:36:35.880
<v Speaker 2>it's a guitar and it's this synthesis of the two.

1:36:36.080 --> 1:36:39.599
<v Speaker 2>So Chesney goes, I love that part.

1:36:40.080 --> 1:36:40.920
<v Speaker 1>Let's get that.

1:36:40.800 --> 1:36:44.360
<v Speaker 2>Guy in there. They call the songwriter and the songwriter goes,

1:36:44.640 --> 1:36:48.000
<v Speaker 2>it's I have to full disclosure. It's a sono demo,

1:36:48.400 --> 1:36:52.280
<v Speaker 2>and so Jessney says, can you play that part? And

1:36:52.320 --> 1:36:55.599
<v Speaker 2>I go, you know, sort of it's gonna sound different

1:36:55.640 --> 1:36:59.360
<v Speaker 2>because that's not that's like two different instruments that have

1:36:59.439 --> 1:37:02.559
<v Speaker 2>become one instrument. I fucking don't know what it is,

1:37:02.600 --> 1:37:06.479
<v Speaker 2>you know, So you come up with something that's kind

1:37:06.479 --> 1:37:09.800
<v Speaker 2>of similar to that, but it's not exactly that. And

1:37:10.439 --> 1:37:15.120
<v Speaker 2>but now Suno you can take individual tracks, so if

1:37:15.200 --> 1:37:17.720
<v Speaker 2>he wanted to, I mean, there's there's copyright issues and

1:37:17.760 --> 1:37:19.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't know how all that. They're in the middle

1:37:19.280 --> 1:37:21.360
<v Speaker 2>of trying to get that worked out. But it's like

1:37:22.040 --> 1:37:25.760
<v Speaker 2>he could take that part and put it into his

1:37:25.880 --> 1:37:29.240
<v Speaker 2>recording if he wanted to, you know, but we didn't.

1:37:29.280 --> 1:37:34.680
<v Speaker 2>He chose not to do that. But yes, Suno has changed.

1:37:35.000 --> 1:37:41.080
<v Speaker 2>It's dramatically changing things. But I ascribed to the thing

1:37:41.400 --> 1:37:47.880
<v Speaker 2>of that that it's just change, and it's it's like

1:37:47.880 --> 1:37:51.479
<v Speaker 2>what a drum machine did, or it's what a synthesizer did,

1:37:51.840 --> 1:37:54.240
<v Speaker 2>or the first time they had a sequencer, and you'd

1:37:54.240 --> 1:37:57.200
<v Speaker 2>have all these cheesy demos that they used a sequencer.

1:37:57.600 --> 1:38:00.840
<v Speaker 2>It's like, and occasionally you'd have a song that would

1:38:00.960 --> 1:38:04.639
<v Speaker 2>have a sequencer part in it. It's you still have

1:38:04.720 --> 1:38:08.200
<v Speaker 2>to come up with a great lyric and a great

1:38:08.280 --> 1:38:12.479
<v Speaker 2>melody and the stuff. I've seen writers try to input

1:38:12.600 --> 1:38:16.760
<v Speaker 2>just a word and say, make a great song of that.

1:38:17.360 --> 1:38:20.680
<v Speaker 2>It can make sort of a generic song from it,

1:38:21.120 --> 1:38:24.439
<v Speaker 2>but something that's deep and has soul and really says

1:38:24.479 --> 1:38:27.240
<v Speaker 2>something special. I don't think it's there right now. I

1:38:27.240 --> 1:38:30.000
<v Speaker 2>don't think it's going to do that. So it's the tools.

1:38:30.120 --> 1:38:30.840
<v Speaker 2>It's just a tool.

1:38:32.320 --> 1:38:36.720
<v Speaker 1>Okay, you got this work with Testney coming up the

1:38:36.800 --> 1:38:41.200
<v Speaker 1>sphere and other dates, anything else in the schedule going forward.

1:38:43.439 --> 1:38:49.759
<v Speaker 2>Uh, I just cut a song that I'm excited about

1:38:49.800 --> 1:38:56.920
<v Speaker 2>on a singer songwriters, a very young guy from Kentucky

1:38:57.240 --> 1:39:00.920
<v Speaker 2>and he is from a rural Kentucky like way back

1:39:00.960 --> 1:39:04.680
<v Speaker 2>in the woods. But he's like a really good lyricist,

1:39:04.800 --> 1:39:09.200
<v Speaker 2>kind of like a towns van Zandt type guy. So

1:39:09.280 --> 1:39:11.760
<v Speaker 2>he has a song coming out on MLK Day. Is

1:39:11.800 --> 1:39:13.040
<v Speaker 2>that is that Monday?

1:39:13.360 --> 1:39:13.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah?

1:39:13.920 --> 1:39:19.240
<v Speaker 2>And it's called American War, And it's from the perspective

1:39:20.320 --> 1:39:23.800
<v Speaker 2>of the guy that lives out in the country that

1:39:23.880 --> 1:39:27.320
<v Speaker 2>doesn't have any money, and it really doesn't take sides.

1:39:27.720 --> 1:39:30.960
<v Speaker 2>It says, you know, you know, red or blue, you

1:39:30.960 --> 1:39:33.120
<v Speaker 2>know you're both at fault, you know, and we suffer,

1:39:33.479 --> 1:39:36.960
<v Speaker 2>you know, where it war with both of you, both sides,

1:39:37.160 --> 1:39:40.360
<v Speaker 2>and it's it's it's a good song. And he came

1:39:40.360 --> 1:39:43.799
<v Speaker 2>over to my studio and played me his other songs.

1:39:44.560 --> 1:39:49.120
<v Speaker 2>They are really good. So he's not signed yet. He

1:39:49.200 --> 1:39:52.080
<v Speaker 2>got a publishing deal. But the way I found out

1:39:52.160 --> 1:39:57.599
<v Speaker 2>about him is Universal is interested in him. So he's

1:39:57.600 --> 1:40:01.160
<v Speaker 2>going to put the song out on Monday, and I'm

1:40:01.240 --> 1:40:06.240
<v Speaker 2>hoping that he gets some traction and I can have

1:40:06.280 --> 1:40:08.920
<v Speaker 2>a budget and I can make more songs with him.

1:40:09.160 --> 1:40:12.240
<v Speaker 2>As I thought he was really really good and the

1:40:12.320 --> 1:40:14.599
<v Speaker 2>Chesney band is in the middle of making another record,

1:40:15.240 --> 1:40:22.160
<v Speaker 2>so I'm doing that and though and then just some

1:40:22.200 --> 1:40:26.040
<v Speaker 2>regular sessions, like next week, I have a blues record

1:40:26.080 --> 1:40:29.400
<v Speaker 2>that I'm playing on that I'm excited to go do.

1:40:30.840 --> 1:40:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

1:40:31.240 --> 1:40:33.960
<v Speaker 2>So just that's that's kind of a good cross section.

1:40:34.080 --> 1:40:37.479
<v Speaker 1>And you mentioned TV and film work. What's the status

1:40:37.479 --> 1:40:37.680
<v Speaker 1>of that.

1:40:38.680 --> 1:40:42.639
<v Speaker 2>I write for a company called Big Yellow Dog, and

1:40:42.720 --> 1:40:44.639
<v Speaker 2>they have a number They have a film and TV

1:40:44.800 --> 1:40:49.280
<v Speaker 2>department and they call it sink like writing for sinc.

1:40:50.000 --> 1:40:52.599
<v Speaker 2>And I do that a lot. And in the past

1:40:52.680 --> 1:40:55.400
<v Speaker 2>year I've gotten a number of things placed and I

1:40:55.479 --> 1:40:59.760
<v Speaker 2>really really enjoy that a lot. And I like to

1:40:59.760 --> 1:41:03.040
<v Speaker 2>write words, but I don't write lyrics in the sense

1:41:03.040 --> 1:41:06.519
<v Speaker 2>of a country lyric is. I'm really not a country guy,

1:41:06.840 --> 1:41:10.719
<v Speaker 2>you know. And so the music I write is more

1:41:13.160 --> 1:41:16.519
<v Speaker 2>outside the box, for lack of a better word, And

1:41:16.600 --> 1:41:20.040
<v Speaker 2>I like that. They send me a brief from like

1:41:20.120 --> 1:41:23.960
<v Speaker 2>we're looking for songs for land Man, and here's how

1:41:24.000 --> 1:41:26.519
<v Speaker 2>they should be. So I get with the writer and

1:41:26.560 --> 1:41:29.400
<v Speaker 2>we try to write something and we record it over here,

1:41:29.880 --> 1:41:33.479
<v Speaker 2>sing it over here. And so I'm doing a lot

1:41:33.479 --> 1:41:38.400
<v Speaker 2>of that and it's for me. It's something I really

1:41:38.400 --> 1:41:41.280
<v Speaker 2>want to pursue in this next chapter of my life

1:41:41.760 --> 1:41:45.280
<v Speaker 2>because I really really enjoy it, and having gotten a

1:41:45.320 --> 1:41:48.120
<v Speaker 2>couple of things, it makes me feel like, Okay, I

1:41:48.160 --> 1:41:48.680
<v Speaker 2>can do this.

1:41:50.160 --> 1:41:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Okay. Do you only get paid when it gets synced?

1:41:52.960 --> 1:41:56.600
<v Speaker 2>Or you only get paid when it gets synced? You

1:41:56.680 --> 1:42:02.639
<v Speaker 2>don't get anything before? That's the And luckily I can

1:42:02.680 --> 1:42:06.920
<v Speaker 2>play sessions and play gigs and can support myself and

1:42:07.000 --> 1:42:07.679
<v Speaker 2>I can do this.

1:42:08.479 --> 1:42:11.000
<v Speaker 1>And how about do you play any gigs in town

1:42:11.120 --> 1:42:13.240
<v Speaker 1>or only on the road? Yep?

1:42:13.360 --> 1:42:18.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm playing with Pat McLoughlin this Friday, and he has

1:42:19.000 --> 1:42:23.479
<v Speaker 2>a new record out called what is the name of

1:42:23.600 --> 1:42:27.599
<v Speaker 2>the record. It's called Nashville after Dark. I don't love

1:42:27.640 --> 1:42:31.160
<v Speaker 2>that title, that's what it's called. But it's him playing

1:42:31.240 --> 1:42:34.320
<v Speaker 2>live in a club and he didn't know, we didn't

1:42:34.360 --> 1:42:37.439
<v Speaker 2>know that we were being recorded. It's just a board

1:42:37.840 --> 1:42:41.479
<v Speaker 2>two mix, so it's very raw. But man, Pat is

1:42:41.880 --> 1:42:47.320
<v Speaker 2>the best, He's just the greatest. In playing with him,

1:42:47.880 --> 1:42:50.759
<v Speaker 2>the musicians, when we get done playing a gig with Pat,

1:42:51.600 --> 1:42:56.080
<v Speaker 2>we always say, after the gig, we stand around backstage

1:42:56.120 --> 1:42:58.400
<v Speaker 2>and go, that was the greatest gig I've ever played.

1:43:00.240 --> 1:43:02.400
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not making this up and I'm not exaggerating.

1:43:02.600 --> 1:43:08.480
<v Speaker 2>Pat McLoughlin is the hidden secret of He is the greatest.

1:43:08.760 --> 1:43:12.559
<v Speaker 2>Playing with him is like, I can't tell you what

1:43:12.840 --> 1:43:15.559
<v Speaker 2>that does for my soul and for the other guys

1:43:15.560 --> 1:43:16.360
<v Speaker 2>to play with him.

1:43:16.760 --> 1:43:16.880
<v Speaker 1>You know.

1:43:16.960 --> 1:43:20.599
<v Speaker 2>As a writer, he's been really successful and he writes

1:43:20.840 --> 1:43:23.080
<v Speaker 2>like a lot of those little more recent John Prime

1:43:23.240 --> 1:43:27.880
<v Speaker 2>songs of John Prime and the Dan auerback stuff, all

1:43:27.880 --> 1:43:30.560
<v Speaker 2>those records of Dan makes and Pat, you know, and

1:43:30.640 --> 1:43:34.479
<v Speaker 2>they're writing songs on all of them. So I have that.

1:43:35.040 --> 1:43:40.479
<v Speaker 2>And then on Sunday there's a guy from Manchester, England,

1:43:41.640 --> 1:43:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I'm named Johnny Lucas who has a band and plays

1:43:44.920 --> 1:43:47.040
<v Speaker 2>gigs and I wrote a song with him, so I'm

1:43:47.040 --> 1:43:49.479
<v Speaker 2>gonna go up and play with his band. I'll just

1:43:49.479 --> 1:43:53.479
<v Speaker 2>play a few songs with his band on Sunday. So yeah,

1:43:53.520 --> 1:43:56.000
<v Speaker 2>I love playing clubs.

1:43:56.240 --> 1:44:01.719
<v Speaker 1>Okay, we've been talking to Kenny Greenberg, guitarist, producer, works

1:44:01.760 --> 1:44:05.439
<v Speaker 1>with Chesney. Heard the story of how he made it. Kenny,

1:44:05.479 --> 1:44:07.559
<v Speaker 1>I want to thank you for taking all this time

1:44:07.600 --> 1:44:10.240
<v Speaker 1>with my audience. Man, thank you.

1:44:11.160 --> 1:44:14.400
<v Speaker 2>I read all your emails. I love it. You know,

1:44:14.479 --> 1:44:16.479
<v Speaker 2>we're on the same page on a lot of stuff.

1:44:16.520 --> 1:44:19.120
<v Speaker 2>So it was honored to be here.

1:44:19.640 --> 1:44:23.360
<v Speaker 1>Great to hear the stories until next time. This is

1:44:23.479 --> 1:44:24.480
<v Speaker 1>Bob Lefstad's