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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to Bob Leftstt's podcast. My guest

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Speaker 1: today is guitarist producer Kenny Greenberg. Kenny, how'd you get

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Speaker 1: the gig playing on the road with Kenny Chesney?

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Speaker 2: I got the gig playing with Kenny Chesney because I'd

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Speaker 2: been playing on his records for a while and we

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Speaker 2: became friends doing that. It's like when you overdub with

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Speaker 2: someone and it's just you and the artist in the room.

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Speaker 2: That's a good way to get to know somebody. And

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Speaker 2: and then I went and did a tour with Bob Seger,

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Speaker 2: and I sent him a couple of clips of playing

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Speaker 2: with Bob, and I think a thing went off in

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Speaker 2: his head. Oh, he plays live too, And so when

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Speaker 2: he was going to do a tour in two thy twelve,

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Speaker 2: he called me and said, hey, one of my guitar

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Speaker 2: players quit, want to come out and play? And I said, yeah, absolutely,

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Speaker 2: And also knowing that Bob was winding down. Bob had

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Speaker 2: told me a couple of times, I think I'm about

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Speaker 2: to wrap it up, maybe one more, but that's about it.

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Speaker 2: So I thought, well, I think I'll go play with Kenny.

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Speaker 2: And it was a That's how I got the gig.

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Speaker 1: Well, let's back up a step. How'd you get the gig?

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Speaker 1: Played for Bob.

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Speaker 2: Seeger playing on his records. I played on like two

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Speaker 2: or three of his records, and he's just I can't

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Speaker 2: say enough good things about him. He's just like a

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Speaker 2: great guy to be around. He's one of those kind

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Speaker 2: of guys that laughs all the time and he's just

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Speaker 2: was awesome. And then we cut a couple things where

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Speaker 2: we cut him kind of live. We had reached windings

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Speaker 2: on the B three and I think when someone's called

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Speaker 2: Gypsy and we cut it live RCA studio, everybody in

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Speaker 2: the room and we stood up and played, and I

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Speaker 2: think he recognized, oh, he stands up and he can

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Speaker 2: play live. So he called me up and asked me

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Speaker 2: to come out and play with him.

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Speaker 1: Well, how do you feel about going on the road

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Speaker 1: as opposed to being in Nashville, you know, being in

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Speaker 1: the studio or losing gigs? What are your feelings?

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Speaker 2: I mean, everybody, I'll put it to you this way.

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Speaker 2: I think fifty you know, twenty years ago, I think

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Speaker 2: studio players were more concerned about not going on the

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Speaker 2: road and making sure they kept all the studio gigs.

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Speaker 2: But the landscape has changed a lot, and most studio

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Speaker 2: players have some kind of a road gig because the

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Speaker 2: studio thing is just smaller now. So, I mean, there

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Speaker 2: are a few exceptions, but I mean I know a

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Speaker 2: lot of the guys that do are really the top

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Speaker 2: guys right now. A lot of those guys have road gigs.

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Speaker 2: And it's also worth noting that, especially in the country sphere,

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Speaker 2: the road gigs are usually either just Friday and Saturday

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Speaker 2: or Thursday through Saturday, and then you come back to

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Speaker 2: Nashville and then you go back out and then you

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Speaker 2: come back. So a lot of the sessions during the

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Speaker 2: week you just don't miss. You know, they're still there,

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Speaker 2: and everybody understands, Oh, you're out playing with Chesney. Wow,

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Speaker 2: what a cool gig. So we also all have our

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Speaker 2: mobile rigs in our hotel rooms and they send us

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Speaker 2: files and we overdub and send them back.

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Speaker 1: Okay, when we were scheduling this, you said you might

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Speaker 1: have to cancel if work came through. Is it a

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Speaker 1: last spinted thing or is this just a busy time.

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Speaker 1: What's it like in a studio player in Nashville now.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's just a lot of things come up at

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Speaker 2: the last minute. And actually I had a couple people

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Speaker 2: say I might need you either Wednesday or Thursday of

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Speaker 2: this week, but we're not sure yet. So that's why

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Speaker 2: I said that. And I'm also you know, is a

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Speaker 2: full disclosure. I'm not a full time session guy and

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Speaker 2: really never have. I've always produced records, written songs, played

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Speaker 2: on the road. So there are guys who are much

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Speaker 2: busier in the studio than me. I like to do

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Speaker 2: different things, so I've always I've always done that, you know,

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Speaker 2: maybe to my detriment. Maybe if I did one thing

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Speaker 2: it might have been better, but I just really enjoyed

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Speaker 2: doing different things, so I would have to say that

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Speaker 2: I'm really not as concerned about losing sessions. And also

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Speaker 2: the sort of arc of a session player, I'm probably

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Speaker 2: on the backside of that because of my age. I mean,

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Speaker 2: I just am.

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Speaker 1: Well, how did you end up playing on Kenny's Records?

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Speaker 1: To begin with?

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Speaker 2: The way I got into play on Kenny's Records is

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Speaker 2: his co longtime co producer. His name is Buddy Cannon.

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Speaker 2: He's it's a wonderful guy, and the I was going

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Speaker 2: to produce a record for Sony on an artist named

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Speaker 2: Shelley Fairchild, and they said, man, what if we put

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Speaker 2: you together with Buddy Cannon, who I'd never met, And

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Speaker 2: this is in two thousand and early two thousand and three,

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Speaker 2: and I said, man, Buddy Cannon, I'd love to work

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Speaker 2: with Buddy Cannon.

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Speaker 1: Who wouldn't.

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Speaker 2: So we made a record on this artist named Shelley Fairchild,

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Speaker 2: and Buddy and I hit it off, and he liked

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Speaker 2: my playing, and probably in the fall, he said, what

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Speaker 2: doul come and play on this Chesney record that I'm

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Speaker 2: working on. So I went into a studio and did

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Speaker 2: one day, and then I did another day, and then

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Speaker 2: they had me on a tracking day and I was

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Speaker 2: sort of in the band then, I mean not on

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Speaker 2: the road in the band, but I was in the

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Speaker 2: studio band, and we just hit it off right away.

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Speaker 2: So I was fortunate to have that opportunity.

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Speaker 1: Now in the ensuing years, when Kenny goes to make

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Speaker 1: a record, how involved are you in making a record

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Speaker 1: with Kenny?

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Speaker 2: I usually play on the tracking date. The tracking date

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Speaker 2: for those listeners that don't know, that's when you lay

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Speaker 2: the foundation. Sometimes it's the whole song. Sometimes it's just

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Speaker 2: the sort of rhythm track, basic foundation, And I'm usually

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Speaker 2: there and I'm usually the leader and help arrange the songs.

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Speaker 2: And but I will say that it's really his thing.

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Speaker 2: I mean more and more as the years have gone

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Speaker 2: by and he's become more confident in his record making.

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Speaker 2: It is really his vision. I mean, he is is

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Speaker 2: a guy who's like it's like not to digress. But

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Speaker 2: when you play live with him, it's loose, it's fun.

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Speaker 2: We jam, songs are extended. He throws out stuff at

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Speaker 2: the last minute when we're in the studio, especially now,

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Speaker 2: it's very very much his vision and very controlled, and

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Speaker 2: this is what I want and this is how I

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Speaker 2: want it to sound. And then he'll actually sing me

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Speaker 2: the parts that he wants me to play. So I

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Speaker 2: will say that it just answers your question. It's I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty involved in playing. But it is really his vision.

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Speaker 1: Okay, Well, he say show up in the studio on

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Speaker 1: Wednesday and then sing you the parts, or will he

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Speaker 1: send you the material in advance?

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Speaker 2: He sends me the songs him or Buddy Cannon send

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Speaker 2: me the songs a couple of days before, and then

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Speaker 2: I make a chart and make the Nashville number chart.

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Speaker 2: And so I've heard the songs and I have an

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Speaker 2: idea in my head about what everybody ought to play

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Speaker 2: and maybe what we ought to do. And then we

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Speaker 2: all get in the room and it's usually a fairly

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Speaker 2: good sized band, and a lot of the band is

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Speaker 2: his roadband, because he's got a great band now, so

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Speaker 2: his road it's a good part of his roadband is

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Speaker 2: in the studio as well. And we go in and

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Speaker 2: we listen down to the song and we all hold

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Speaker 2: our charts and the players and this is standard stuff,

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Speaker 2: and the players have all heard it for the first time,

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Speaker 2: and we listen down and Chesney says, I hate what

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Speaker 2: they're doing on the intro. Do not do that. After

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Speaker 2: I learned the intro overnight, you know, I got to

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Speaker 2: learn how to play the intro. I learned the intro.

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Speaker 2: And he goes, I hate the intro. Don't do that.

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Speaker 2: So then we'll come up with a new intro, or

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Speaker 2: we'll just lay a bed and he'll say, I want

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Speaker 2: to think about the intro. I'm going to come back

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Speaker 2: to you with my idea when we overdub of what

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Speaker 2: I think that intro should be. He really likes to

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Speaker 2: take a basic track and think about what he wants today.

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Speaker 2: He's very thought and it is really really his vision

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Speaker 2: of how he wants the songs to be. Whereas when

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Speaker 2: I first started recording with him, which is sort of

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Speaker 2: the era of Heman Ways Whiskey and Living in Fast

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Speaker 2: Forward and some of those kind of stadium rock songs,

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Speaker 2: it's pretty loose. I mean, we just go in there

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Speaker 2: and jam and play live solos, and that's kind of

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Speaker 2: the way those records are. He doesn't do that as

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Speaker 2: much anymore. He's kind of more thoughtful about how he

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Speaker 2: wants to do it. And you know, really, for better

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Speaker 2: or worse, as an artist, he's changing and he's doing

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Speaker 2: different things, and it's probably a good thing.

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Speaker 1: Okay. He originally worked with Barry Beckett, famous and Muscle Sholes,

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Speaker 1: and then he went to work with Buddy. He's been

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Speaker 1: working Buddy for eons. Now, what's Buddy's special sauce.

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Speaker 2: Buddy is he is really like he's with Kenny because

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Speaker 2: Kenny is so hands on and such a song guy

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Speaker 2: that Buddy just kind of sits at the back of

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Speaker 2: the room and it doesn't say much and Buddy and

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Speaker 2: Kenny comes in and goes, Hey, the intro, this is

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Speaker 2: what I want to do. There's and we start, and

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Speaker 2: we go and we start to record the song, and

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Speaker 2: Buddy hits the talk back and he's got this sort

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Speaker 2: of southern drawl, kind of a slow talking guy, and

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Speaker 2: he goes like it's too fast, and then and we go, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's too fast, and he's right, and then we slow

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Speaker 2: it down and then we start to record it, and

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Speaker 2: then he'll say he'll say, Kenny, this isn't a great

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Speaker 2: key for your voice. We need to we need to

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Speaker 2: change the key. So we'll try and change the key.

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Speaker 2: So Buddy just sort of direct from the back, and

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Speaker 2: he doesn't have an ego. He's very cool about stuff.

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Speaker 2: You can't piss the guy off. He's just gonna sit

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Speaker 2: back there, and but he has really really great things

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Speaker 2: to say. That's sort of how he's not a I'll

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Speaker 2: put it this way. You're not gonna spend hours moving

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Speaker 2: around microphones on guitar cabinets with Buddy. He doesn't care

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Speaker 2: about that. He's more of the big picture guy.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Some people Jimmy Iavin famous for being on the

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Speaker 1: phone while he's producing records. Rick Rubin, you know, is

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Speaker 1: constantly telling the band to do things by themselves. Where

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Speaker 1: he shows up is Buddy there paying attention the whole time.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, he's paying attention. He's sitting in the back of

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Speaker 2: the room. He's actually he's the first guy there and

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Speaker 2: he's sitting in the back of the room. He's got

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Speaker 2: an assistant that's always there with him. He is very

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Speaker 2: much paying attention. He's not on I've never seen him

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Speaker 2: on the phone, you know, he just sort of sits

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Speaker 2: back there. And yeah, he's also been making the Willie

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Speaker 2: Nelson records for a long time. He's he's been making

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Speaker 2: all those records.

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Speaker 1: Have you worked with Buddy on anybody else at this one? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I worked on a Willie Nelson record. I worked on

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Speaker 2: a Jamie Johnson record, a couple other things. He's brought

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Speaker 2: me into overdub on just on and off. Yeah, I

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Speaker 2: work with the Willie record I worked on. It was

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Speaker 2: really fun.

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Speaker 1: So what's the style of making a Willie record?

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Speaker 2: It was more loose and let's move fast. There was

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Speaker 2: a lot of people there, a lot of people in

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Speaker 2: the control room. His bus was parked out back. Everybody

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Speaker 2: wanted to go on the bus and smoke pot is.

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Speaker 1: It was.

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Speaker 2: It was a kind of a circus. And but my

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Speaker 2: great experience with that record. I've played on a couple

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Speaker 2: of his records, but on the record that Buddy did

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Speaker 2: we cut on my birthday. We cut got to Serve Somebody,

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Speaker 2: And so I didn't tell I didn't say it's my

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Speaker 2: birthday because I didn't want the whole thing where they

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Speaker 2: give me the cake and you know, so I just

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Speaker 2: I'm just thinking, this is freaking amazing. I'm playing with Willie.

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Speaker 2: I can see him in the vocal booth across the studio,

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Speaker 2: and we're playing got to Serve Somebody, which I love

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Speaker 2: that song. I mean, it's so and so we're playing

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Speaker 2: that song. But my story about it is is that

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Speaker 2: so we do two or three takes and Willie's playing

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Speaker 2: his guitar the way he plays guitar, and he plays

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Speaker 2: through this weird old Baldwin amp and it I don't

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Speaker 2: think there's a ground on the plug, and the radio

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Speaker 2: station was coming through and they were having trouble with

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Speaker 2: the amput. But we're cutting the song and his amp's

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Speaker 2: kind of kind of noisy, but he's playing the way

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Speaker 2: he plays.

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Speaker 1: It's great.

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Speaker 2: It's Willie Nelson. So we cut Serve Somebody and we

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Speaker 2: get into the oultro of the song, and a lot

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Speaker 2: of times in the studio, on the outro, which is

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Speaker 2: the end part of song, you can kind of jam

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Speaker 2: stretch out and they'll edit that out or do what

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Speaker 2: they want to do, but it's always fun for us

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Speaker 2: to do. So we're cutting surf somebody. We get to

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Speaker 2: the end of the song and Willie plays a little

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Speaker 2: bit and then I answer him, and then he plays

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Speaker 2: a little bit, and so we're having this conversation and

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Speaker 2: we're playing and I'm thinking to myself, it's my birthday.

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Speaker 2: I'm trading licks with Willie. He's playing Trigger, the famous guitar.

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Speaker 2: This is freaking amazing. And I was so excited and

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Speaker 2: and and I knew that his part was a little

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Speaker 2: rough in his amp was making some noises, but who cares,

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Speaker 2: you know.

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Speaker 1: And so.

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Speaker 2: I get the record and they replaced it with Jim

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Speaker 2: Horn on sacks on the outro. So so our little

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Speaker 2: conversation we had is gone, and they've got this wailing

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Speaker 2: sax solo, which was really great, you know. I mean,

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Speaker 2: Jim Horn is he's Jim Horn, you know that played

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Speaker 2: on all those great records, and it was it was great.

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Speaker 2: But I was like, oh man, you know, so that's

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Speaker 2: that's my story from that record.

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Speaker 1: I mean, Baldman was a piano maker that made amplifiers

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Speaker 1: for like ten minutes. At the end of the sixties

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Speaker 1: early seventies.

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Speaker 2: They make this big, tall solid state amplifier called the

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Speaker 2: Baldwin Exterminator. And if you see Neil Young play, he

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Speaker 2: has a couple of old Vinage Fender amps. He's got

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Speaker 2: these pile of amps he plays through live, and in

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Speaker 2: the middle of it, he's got a Baldwin exterminator and

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Speaker 2: it has a very particular, weird solid state sound. But

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Speaker 2: for whatever reason, Willie with his very unusual classical guitar,

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Speaker 2: gut string guitar, it's got a mic in it. That's

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Speaker 2: the empty plays through. I think, I mean, I guess

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Speaker 2: that's the ampies always played through. I don't know, you know,

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Speaker 2: but that's what he had.

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Speaker 1: So he plays the same guitar he plays with live

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Speaker 1: with a hole in it. That's what he records with.

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Speaker 2: That's what he records with, that same guitar, and it

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Speaker 2: was just it's amazing.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back. You talk about creating a chart. Tell

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Speaker 1: my audience for those who don't know about creating a chart.

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Speaker 2: A chart is it's really you know. I think if

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Speaker 2: you were in a on a string session in la

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Speaker 2: you would get a transcription with the notes and a

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Speaker 2: full score that you would read off of, and you

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Speaker 2: would find the guitar part and play those notes, and

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Speaker 2: you would read those notes. We don't really do that

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Speaker 2: in Nashville. What we do is they have a thing

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Speaker 2: called the number system, and each like, if you're in

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Speaker 2: the key of C, a C is a one, a

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Speaker 2: D minor is a two with a with a negative

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Speaker 2: sign next to it, and you do a little bit

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Speaker 2: of transcription in the case of where you might notate

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Speaker 2: above it that you're going to one measure, you're going

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Speaker 2: to play a one chord and a two minor, but

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Speaker 2: the two minor starts on the two and and you'll

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Speaker 2: make a little notation of the notes above it. And

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Speaker 2: so everybody knows how to read a little bit. But

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Speaker 2: the reason that my understanding of the reason why the

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Speaker 2: Nashville number system came into being because country music and

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Speaker 2: acoustic music uses acoustic instruments. If you change or even

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Speaker 2: forget about that, if you just change the key, if

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Speaker 2: you do it once and the singer goes, oh, it's

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Speaker 2: too high. So you're in the key of D, so

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Speaker 2: you got so you go down to you go down

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Speaker 2: to B flat. Well all the all the names of

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Speaker 2: the chords have changed, but if you use the number system,

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Speaker 2: it's just the intervals of the chords, so the numbers

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Speaker 2: stay the same. So you read the same chart. Does

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Speaker 2: that make sense what I'm saying?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So that's.

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Speaker 2: That's And also because guitar players use KPO's, so the

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Speaker 2: song might be in G, but you may kpo up

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Speaker 2: three frets and you're playing out of E, and so

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Speaker 2: you're looking at the guitar and you're playing an E chord,

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Speaker 2: but it's really a G chord. But if you if

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Speaker 2: it's just a one, if the song's in the key

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Speaker 2: of G, it's just a one. No matter where you are,

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Speaker 2: it's just a it's a It simplifies things and it

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Speaker 2: makes it easy to adapt and change.

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Speaker 1: Let's go back to the road as we're jumping around here.

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Speaker 1: You know, you talk to a lot of artists. They

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Speaker 1: love the hour two on stage and the rest of

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Speaker 1: the time is dreadful. What's it like for you?

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Speaker 2: It's you know, I have to say, you know, I

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Speaker 2: didn't really start to tour. Until I was in my fifties,

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Speaker 2: I just was always playing club gigs or I would

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Speaker 2: occasionally do a one off with somebody in a large

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Speaker 2: hall or something, but I was never really and when

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Speaker 2: I was really young, I was on the road in

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Speaker 2: the van, but that's different. I was in my twenties

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Speaker 2: and that's a whole other thing. But my experience with

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Speaker 2: Bob c Or We're out for three months, and it

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Speaker 2: was difficult for me on the days off because it

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Speaker 2: was my first time doing that, and I didn't enjoy

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Speaker 2: it was fun being in Pittsburgh for three days in

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Speaker 2: exploring the city and whatever, but I didn't like playing

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Speaker 2: a gig having two days off. Playing a gig having

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Speaker 2: two days off, that was foreign to me because I

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Speaker 2: hadn't done that in a long time and when I

341
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Speaker 2: was a kid on the road playing gigs, we were

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Speaker 2: played every night. So for me, I didn't really love that,

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Speaker 2: but I adapted to to it and actually had a

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Speaker 2: great time because the gigs were just so incredible. I mean,

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Speaker 2: playing with Bob is just like, this was incredible. It's

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Speaker 2: a great experience. So it was all new. But then

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Speaker 2: I went right from that to Chesney, which is you're

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Speaker 2: either out Friday and Saturday and then you come right back,

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Speaker 2: or you're out Thursday through Saturday and you come right back.

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Speaker 2: So it's I really love it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So if you go out and come back, everybody

352
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Speaker 1: fly on the same plane. Or does can he take

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Speaker 1: his own transportation?

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Speaker 2: Well, he's got his own plane, so and he's got

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Speaker 2: a full time crew. And so the way it works.

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Speaker 2: When I first went out with him, he was pretty

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Speaker 2: separate from us, and we would either take a bus

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Speaker 2: and the band has her own vie and his organization

359
00:21:01,520 --> 00:21:04,040
Speaker 2: is so big, it's like a hundred people. So you

360
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Speaker 2: have this army of buses and the band has her

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Speaker 2: own bus. It's a very comfortable and nice bus. Or

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Speaker 2: if we were going to the West coast, we'd fly

363
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Speaker 2: and we'd fly out Southwest or American or whatever. In

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Speaker 2: the last four years, since the pandemic, we have a

365
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Speaker 2: newer band, and I mean his other band. His old

366
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Speaker 2: band was great. It was kind of more of a

367
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Speaker 2: for lack of a better word, like a country rock

368
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Speaker 2: bar band, which was really fun and there were great guys,

369
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Speaker 2: but they were guys he had come up with, but

370
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Speaker 2: he was sort of separate from them and they weren't

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Speaker 2: studio guys, and now the band is more he feels like,

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Speaker 2: in my mind, I think he feels like we're more

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Speaker 2: his equals or something. I'm not sure if that's the

374
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Speaker 2: right way to say, but what I'm getting around to

375
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Speaker 2: saying is that we'll fly on his plane. Some of

376
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Speaker 2: the time. He'll call and say, hey, guys, let's it'll

377
00:22:00,600 --> 00:22:03,000
Speaker 2: call the band and say, do you guys ride with me?

378
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Speaker 2: So we'll jump on the plane and ride to Pittsburgh.

379
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Speaker 2: We'll leave it four in the afternoon and get there

380
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Speaker 2: at seven, zip over and play the gig, get back

381
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Speaker 2: on the plane and be home at one in the morning.

382
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Speaker 2: And that's that's a that is a luxury. And so

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Speaker 2: we do that sometimes and it's great because we have

384
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Speaker 2: great conversations and we talk about recording and what we

385
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Speaker 2: want to work on, and everybody's in it together. But

386
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Speaker 2: then sometimes we're on the bus and I don't mind

387
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Speaker 2: the bus. I actually like the bus. I think the

388
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Speaker 2: thing I like the least is flying commercial. That's it's

389
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Speaker 2: just hard.

390
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Speaker 1: Okay. When you do have downtime, how do you entertain yourself?

391
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Speaker 2: I do yoga, I like to work out, and then

392
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Speaker 2: I have a traveling pro tools rig and whatever records

393
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:05,199
Speaker 2: that I'm working on, or songs that I'm writing, or

394
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Speaker 2: whatever i'm doing. I'll set up my stuff in my

395
00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:15,040
Speaker 2: hotel room and work. And there's something about being in

396
00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:19,879
Speaker 2: a hotel room where I'm not distracted. I'm not going

397
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Speaker 2: to take a break and go up and hang out

398
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Speaker 2: with my wife or run up to the store or something.

399
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,680
Speaker 2: I'm just there. I get a lot of work done

400
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Speaker 2: and actually really like that. And the other guys in

401
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,199
Speaker 2: the band all do the same thing. We all do

402
00:23:33,240 --> 00:23:34,919
Speaker 2: the same thing. We're all in our rooms with our

403
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:37,439
Speaker 2: pro tools, rigs, And I think if you talk to

404
00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:40,680
Speaker 2: most bands on the road, a lot of the guys

405
00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:45,600
Speaker 2: will say, yep, I've got my ableton or my logic

406
00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 2: or whatever they use. It's on my laptop and I'm

407
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,560
Speaker 2: in my room and I'm working on stuff. So there's

408
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,040
Speaker 2: a lot they can do during the day.

409
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,399
Speaker 1: Well, in the old days, if you're doing twenty six

410
00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:02,399
Speaker 1: dates in thirty days, you were burnt crisp on both ends,

411
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: you know, So when you want to work today, you know,

412
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:10,119
Speaker 1: are you awake enough for being a musician? You can

413
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,800
Speaker 1: run on empty? How does it work?

414
00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:15,280
Speaker 2: I go to bed early. I'm gonna go to bed.

415
00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 2: And really, I almost hate to say this, it's almost embarrassing,

416
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 2: but the when we play and we get done in eleven,

417
00:24:24,359 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 2: we play like from nine to eleven, kind of sort

418
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:29,840
Speaker 2: of somewhere in there, and then by the time you're

419
00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:34,160
Speaker 2: back at your hotel room or whatever you're doing, it's midnight.

420
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Speaker 2: I mean, that's usually the latest time ever up. And

421
00:24:37,240 --> 00:24:39,480
Speaker 2: I still get up early, but most of the time

422
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,439
Speaker 2: I go to bed early, and I get up really early,

423
00:24:42,880 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 2: and I get a lot done in the morning. That's

424
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:46,920
Speaker 2: and if I need to, I take a nap in

425
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Speaker 2: the afternoon.

426
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Speaker 1: Okay, you know, Canny sometimes play stadiums, sometimes play sheds,

427
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Speaker 1: as big a building as he wants. You're there, you're performing,

428
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,280
Speaker 1: and it is a perform it's in front of fifty

429
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: thousand people. How do you calm down in an hour

430
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Speaker 1: such a you can go to sleep.

431
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Speaker 2: I don't know how to answer that, and I don't

432
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:20,359
Speaker 2: really ever think about it. There's something about playing his gig,

433
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,399
Speaker 2: and it's kind of different than other gigs. I don't

434
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 2: know how to answer this exactly. It's I'm in it's exciting,

435
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:31,679
Speaker 2: and you run around and there's tons of people and

436
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 2: it's very very loud, you know, and it's but it's

437
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,800
Speaker 2: there's this weird I'm kind of relaxed doing it. I

438
00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 2: enjoy it so much. And if I'm having a good night,

439
00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: I do this mindfulness. It's the meditation that I do.

440
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: And if I'm having a good night, I can get

441
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 2: into mindfulness while I'm playing, and I just sort of

442
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:05,720
Speaker 2: stop thinking and just play, and it's this very relaxing

443
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,439
Speaker 2: and I just look out at all the people and

444
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,399
Speaker 2: all the lights, and I'm a side man. I'm over

445
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 2: on the side, even though I get to step out

446
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:14,560
Speaker 2: and plate, so all those and stuff, I'm a side man,

447
00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,160
Speaker 2: and so I can sort of watch the world from

448
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 2: my little side of the stage and look at all

449
00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:24,639
Speaker 2: the people and all the crazy shit they're doing. Or

450
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,679
Speaker 2: if we're outdoors the lights at a festival, you know,

451
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 2: and if I'm in a good place, which isn't every night,

452
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: but when i am, I get into this mindfulness thing

453
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 2: where I just play and that's a really great place

454
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,439
Speaker 2: to be. And then when I get done, I'm not

455
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,360
Speaker 2: I'm not stressed or i'm not jazzed. I'm just sort

456
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,280
Speaker 2: of relaxed. And it's easy for me to either get

457
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:57,639
Speaker 2: on the bus. I'm usually the first one to sleep

458
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,960
Speaker 2: on the bus. I'm also way older than everybody else,

459
00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:03,240
Speaker 2: but it's like I can.

460
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:04,879
Speaker 1: I could just get.

461
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 2: On the bus, have a whatever, coconut water because I

462
00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 2: don't drink, and go to sleep.

463
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,800
Speaker 1: Tell me more about mindfulness and how you get in

464
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: that zone.

465
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,720
Speaker 2: It's it's a discipline and I move in and out

466
00:27:26,760 --> 00:27:31,840
Speaker 2: of it, and it's like a meditation practice and it's

467
00:27:31,840 --> 00:27:34,240
Speaker 2: a Buddhist thing that it started that way. But there's

468
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 2: tons of mindfulness apps, Like Sam Harris has a great app.

469
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 2: I'm a big Sam Harris fan, and he has a

470
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 2: daily meditation that's very mindfulness based. And there's also ten

471
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,840
Speaker 2: percent Happier, which is also a great app. And that

472
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,720
Speaker 2: the guy that has that app is the guy that

473
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 2: was a he was a newscaster. I can't remember his name,

474
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 2: but it's his app. And you just try to stop

475
00:28:05,200 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 2: your mind from going on the treadmill and thinking about

476
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,200
Speaker 2: what I gotta do tomorrow, what just happened, what do

477
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,040
Speaker 2: I regret, what do I wish happen? You know, you

478
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 2: just sort of let that go and I find that

479
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:20,400
Speaker 2: I play my best when I stopped thinking and there's

480
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:24,639
Speaker 2: a there's a mindfulness expert named George Mumford. Have you

481
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,399
Speaker 2: ever heard of him? He no, he has a book

482
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:32,000
Speaker 2: out and he was he's a sports guy and he

483
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,720
Speaker 2: with Michael Jordan was the first guy I did it

484
00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 2: with was Michael Jordan. Michael Jordan's thing on the court

485
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:44,960
Speaker 2: was mindfulness and talked to him by George Mumford. And

486
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: so what he did was it was the same thing

487
00:28:48,880 --> 00:28:53,600
Speaker 2: where you stop thinking, you forget about the people out there.

488
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:55,360
Speaker 2: I mean they're still there and you still see him,

489
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,400
Speaker 2: but you just let go and you play your best.

490
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 2: And he also worked with Kobe and a couple of

491
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 2: other people, but he was a he works with sports

492
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,600
Speaker 2: people and gets them. It's sort of a way to

493
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,280
Speaker 2: unstress and to play their best. So I find in

494
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:18,960
Speaker 2: playing music as far as performing and actually in the

495
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 2: studio sometimes too, if I can shut off the noise

496
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: and just and it doesn't always work. There's some days

497
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 2: where you just you can't shut it off. You know,

498
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:31,239
Speaker 2: there's stuff you're thinking about, or you got to do

499
00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,280
Speaker 2: something tomorrow and you're stuck thinking about it. But if

500
00:29:34,320 --> 00:29:35,920
Speaker 2: I or are you thinking about yourself?

501
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:36,640
Speaker 1: Do they like me?

502
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 2: Do they not? Like me. Do they like what I played?

503
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:40,000
Speaker 2: Do they not like what I played?

504
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:41,280
Speaker 1: You know?

505
00:29:41,520 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 2: But if you can stop that and just let go,

506
00:29:47,320 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 2: you're still aware. I play my best that way, So

507
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,760
Speaker 2: playing gigs, I play my best when I do that.

508
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 1: Okay, how do you avoid making mistakes when you're playing live?

509
00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:10,239
Speaker 2: Practice? For me, I'm a big practicer. I get up

510
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 2: in the morning and I practice every morning. And if

511
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 2: I I mean, once you're out on two and you've

512
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,320
Speaker 2: played songs a bunch, you don't have to practice the

513
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:24,760
Speaker 2: songs as much. But for me to avoid to get

514
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:28,320
Speaker 2: my hands to do what my brain is thinking, I

515
00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: have to practice. It's like a physical thing. Some people

516
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 2: don't have to. I absolutely have to. So for me,

517
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 2: I get up in the morning and I practice, and

518
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,160
Speaker 2: I get my hands going, and then like for instance,

519
00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:49,760
Speaker 2: Friday night, tonight Night's Wednesday Friday. I'm playing with Pat mcgloughlin.

520
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,120
Speaker 2: I'm not sure if you know who he is. Yes,

521
00:30:53,640 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 2: if you ever get a chance to see him play live,

522
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: it's the greatest. He's amazing to play with. But it's

523
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 2: for me. It's a lot of playing. And he likes

524
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 2: me to play a lot, and he'll send me I'll

525
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,680
Speaker 2: probably get it tonight or tomorrow. He'll send me an

526
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 2: MP three and say, here's the new songs I just

527
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 2: wrote I want to do, so I have to learn

528
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:18,560
Speaker 2: those songs. Or sometimes I'll also say sometimes we get

529
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:20,520
Speaker 2: there and he just starts playing new songs and we

530
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:24,760
Speaker 2: follow him. He's a great bandleader and so but what

531
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 2: I'm getting around saying is that the next couple days

532
00:31:29,960 --> 00:31:34,240
Speaker 2: I'll work on playing his songs. Even though it's just

533
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,000
Speaker 2: a club gig, it's not being recorded. No one cares.

534
00:31:37,080 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 2: It's a club gig. You know, there'll be a lot

535
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:43,240
Speaker 2: of people there, but playing at this club called Third

536
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:49,520
Speaker 2: and Lindsley. And but for me to really enjoy myself

537
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,040
Speaker 2: and to be able to relax and play great, I

538
00:31:54,080 --> 00:31:57,440
Speaker 2: have to practice and learn what I'm going to do,

539
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,040
Speaker 2: and then I make less mistakes. I still might make

540
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: a few mistakes. I mean, that's just going to happen.

541
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:04,600
Speaker 2: But yep, that's what I do.

542
00:32:06,120 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 1: Okay, when you're on the road with Kenny, how many musicians,

543
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 1: backup singers, how many performers?

544
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,800
Speaker 2: We have a six person band and there is drummer,

545
00:32:17,840 --> 00:32:21,960
Speaker 2: a bass player. We have this female bass player named

546
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 2: Harmony Kelly who's just freaking great. She's like the crowd favorite.

547
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:33,120
Speaker 2: And then the keyboard player, Wyatt Beard, he's the band

548
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,080
Speaker 2: leader and he sings all the backgrounds and actually on

549
00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 2: the record sings all the backgrounds. He's a great background singer.

550
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:49,680
Speaker 2: And then there are three guitar players and one guy

551
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:54,400
Speaker 2: sort of is the guy. Well, actually the other two

552
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: guitar players both play like well. One guitar players are

553
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,760
Speaker 2: great banjo player. He'll do all the banjo stuff and

554
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,560
Speaker 2: all the mandolin stuff, but he plays and he plays

555
00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,480
Speaker 2: a lot of acoustic guitar. And then the guy that

556
00:33:09,640 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 2: stands next to me, John Conley, he plays fiddle, a

557
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 2: little bit of mandolin, acoustic and electric. And then I

558
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:24,120
Speaker 2: used to play a lot of acoustic and and electric.

559
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 2: I'm kind of more doing just electric playing now I

560
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 2: mostly do that. And so there's it's a six person band.

561
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,240
Speaker 2: That's kind of how it works.

562
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: So if you're going to go on the road and

563
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: this is a well oiled machine, how far in advance

564
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: do you start to rehearse.

565
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:46,760
Speaker 2: Well, i'll tell you about this year. We're going to

566
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: do the Sphere again, So we're going to rehearse starting

567
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,560
Speaker 2: in March. We'll do about a week and a half

568
00:33:55,840 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 2: and we'll that first week will just makes you our

569
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,920
Speaker 2: sounds are good. Our front of house guy, Robert Scovil,

570
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 2: who's like the famous front of house guy that was

571
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,200
Speaker 2: Tom Petty's guy for a long time. He's really great.

572
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:14,120
Speaker 2: He'll be there, we'll get our sounds. We'll maybe change

573
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:18,359
Speaker 2: some things this year for our sound and so we'll

574
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: do that for the first week and then we'll get

575
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 2: so that'll be like a week and a half in March,

576
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 2: and then in April we'll probably do two weeks of

577
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 2: rehearsal and we'll learn all the new stuff that we're

578
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,919
Speaker 2: going to do, all the changes that we're going to make.

579
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 2: And I think we're playing a couple of festivals at

580
00:34:41,719 --> 00:34:44,920
Speaker 2: the end of April, and then May and June we'll

581
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 2: be at the Sphere and we'll do probably a week

582
00:34:49,120 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 2: on a sound stage in Las Vegas that has this

583
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 2: mini sphere thing technology where it's similar and it has

584
00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 2: the surround speakers so they can get the same on

585
00:35:00,360 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 2: going and we'll spend you know, maybe four or five

586
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 2: days there and then we'll be in and we'll start playing.

587
00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:11,279
Speaker 2: But I also will say that Kenny does not like

588
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:15,359
Speaker 2: to rehearse, and I don't think he'll mind me saying this,

589
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 2: and we'll so. Rehearsing with him is a great gig

590
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 2: because you get he'll book you for the week and

591
00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: we'll do Monday and Tuesday and we'll run through stuff

592
00:35:28,120 --> 00:35:33,000
Speaker 2: and he'll go, man, you guys sound great. He said,

593
00:35:33,160 --> 00:35:34,560
Speaker 2: let's stick the rest of the week off. What do

594
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:35,759
Speaker 2: you think and we'll go.

595
00:35:36,520 --> 00:35:37,600
Speaker 1: Sounds good to us.

596
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,319
Speaker 2: He does not like to rehearse this. It's funny because

597
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,920
Speaker 2: he's so meticulous about everything else in the video and

598
00:35:43,960 --> 00:35:46,800
Speaker 2: the lights and the recording. He just sort of leaves

599
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,840
Speaker 2: the live thing up to us as long as we

600
00:35:49,880 --> 00:35:51,920
Speaker 2: don't take advantage of that. You know, if you take

601
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:53,400
Speaker 2: advantage of it, we're gonna hear about it.

602
00:35:53,440 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: But you know, yeah, okay, Kenny has a lot of

603
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,520
Speaker 1: production forgetting this. If you're just going out at a

604
00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: normal summer, do you then go to Pennsylvania or some

605
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: other place to rehearse with all the production.

606
00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 2: For about a week. Yeah, And usually in my experience,

607
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 2: we go to Tampa. I've done this two or three

608
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:23,600
Speaker 2: times with him. We did one time in Nashville. We

609
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,520
Speaker 2: went to Jacksonville one time, but he kind of likes

610
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:29,440
Speaker 2: the water and likes having his boat nearby. So we go.

611
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:33,800
Speaker 2: We going down to Tampa and and we rehearse for

612
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 2: a week and that's really fun. I mean, you're the

613
00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,359
Speaker 2: tours are about to start. Everybody's super stoked and excited. You

614
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:46,040
Speaker 2: meet the new crew people, and there's a lot of dinners,

615
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:51,319
Speaker 2: and everybody hangs out and there's a real I think

616
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:57,040
Speaker 2: a lot of big road artists would tell you that

617
00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 2: there's a culture and a family to their to their

618
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:06,120
Speaker 2: road thing where everybody hangs out and you and with

619
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,840
Speaker 2: Kenny's thing, because it's in a stadium, they have this

620
00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 2: whole thing set up with a bar in a grill

621
00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:20,279
Speaker 2: backstage and they're grilling, you know, fresh seafood and it's

622
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:20,839
Speaker 2: pretty fun.

623
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,240
Speaker 1: So what was your experience playing the Sphere.

624
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 2: My experience playing the Sphere was I really really enjoyed

625
00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 2: the setup and we did I'm in my studio right now.

626
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:41,560
Speaker 2: You can see it's a studio we're in, and we

627
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 2: did some of the content here at my place, which

628
00:37:44,719 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 2: would be the music before the show starts and as

629
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 2: the show starts, and some in between song stuff. So

630
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 2: I got to see some of the content. It was

631
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:59,480
Speaker 2: exciting coming up with sort of cinematic sounds to start

632
00:37:59,520 --> 00:38:01,960
Speaker 2: the show, and so we did that in my studio

633
00:38:02,760 --> 00:38:05,239
Speaker 2: and I loved all that. That was great. I'm really

634
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,160
Speaker 2: into doing music for film and TV now, so this

635
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 2: is sort of a parallel to that, and that was

636
00:38:12,719 --> 00:38:19,400
Speaker 2: really good. And I really enjoyed the first week at

637
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: the sound stage where we dialed in and we changed

638
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:30,120
Speaker 2: the arrangements and we're trying new things. Everybody's super excited.

639
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:36,920
Speaker 2: We're having a great time. And the first couple of shows,

640
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 2: it's kind of amazing being in there. I mean, it

641
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 2: sounds really great in there, and you know, you see

642
00:38:44,480 --> 00:38:48,000
Speaker 2: the whole you know, the three sixty spectacle of it.

643
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:50,919
Speaker 2: And I also mentioned, especially in light of the past

644
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 2: few weeks, is that for this past week, is that

645
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,319
Speaker 2: while we were at the sound stage, the Dead was

646
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 2: doing their their last set of dates and we had

647
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 2: passes to get into the sphere, so I went and

648
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: saw the Dead a couple times, which was just absolutely fantastic.

649
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:14,440
Speaker 2: I can't say enough good things about what a great

650
00:39:14,480 --> 00:39:17,239
Speaker 2: band they had become, you know, sort of a new

651
00:39:17,360 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 2: I've heard you mentioned it in your email. It was

652
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,680
Speaker 2: kind of a it's a different thing now, but it's

653
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,920
Speaker 2: and they're tight in a different way that they weren't

654
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,960
Speaker 2: tight before. And also the whole culture of the dead

655
00:39:30,480 --> 00:39:33,160
Speaker 2: looking at all the people, and I just I really

656
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,080
Speaker 2: loved it so so I enjoyed that week, and the

657
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,719
Speaker 2: first couple of shows were great, and then after that

658
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 2: it was because we had the floor open and the

659
00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,799
Speaker 2: people were down on the floor. It was just like

660
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 2: a regular Kenny Chesney show. It was not like I

661
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 2: heard that Vince Gill has this famous quote that everybody

662
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,879
Speaker 2: I've heard ad nauseum where he says, it's the most

663
00:39:56,920 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 2: amount of people I've played for that weren't watching me.

664
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:05,360
Speaker 2: And I did not have that experience. I felt like

665
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:11,600
Speaker 2: it was pretty normal. It was kind of like a

666
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 2: regular big gig and it was exciting and the people

667
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:19,000
Speaker 2: were very excited at the front to see all that

668
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,879
Speaker 2: was going on, but they were watching us too. And

669
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:26,279
Speaker 2: but then being stuck in Las Vegas for another six weeks,

670
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:34,640
Speaker 2: you know, yeah, I don't drink or gamble, and it

671
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,319
Speaker 2: was like one hundred and seventeen degrees out and I

672
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:41,920
Speaker 2: don't really love Las Vegas. It's kind of a dark,

673
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 2: dark place.

674
00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:54,480
Speaker 1: I'm with you on that. When you're on stage with

675
00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:58,400
Speaker 1: the band. You know with Kenny's band, you know most

676
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,239
Speaker 1: of the people there, they know the hits, they may

677
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:04,839
Speaker 1: know more. They're just thrilled to be there. But the

678
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 1: what degreed does the band lock in certain nights and

679
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,759
Speaker 1: it's better certain nights the other nights? And when do

680
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:13,400
Speaker 1: you feel that? And when do you feel it?

681
00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:19,239
Speaker 2: Mesh, I think it's inevitable that every night isn't perfect.

682
00:41:19,320 --> 00:41:21,960
Speaker 2: And part of the beauty and the magic and the

683
00:41:22,000 --> 00:41:27,520
Speaker 2: mystery of music is it's always different. And we play

684
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:31,520
Speaker 2: through two amplifiers, We play loud guitars through two amplifiers,

685
00:41:32,080 --> 00:41:35,320
Speaker 2: and they sound different. They sound different every night, especially

686
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,719
Speaker 2: when you travel that they sound different. And I think

687
00:41:39,719 --> 00:41:44,279
Speaker 2: that's a good thing. And it's not always great, But

688
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:50,360
Speaker 2: this particular band is just it's kind of a special

689
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:55,040
Speaker 2: group of people. We've just discovered. This band came together

690
00:41:55,520 --> 00:42:00,359
Speaker 2: at the end of the pandemic quick aside and once

691
00:42:00,400 --> 00:42:02,880
Speaker 2: again not to guest any aspersions on the guys that

692
00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 2: aren't in the band anymore. Two of the band members

693
00:42:07,160 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 2: would not wear a mask or get tested or any

694
00:42:12,560 --> 00:42:14,440
Speaker 2: of that kind of stuff. So when we all started

695
00:42:14,480 --> 00:42:18,839
Speaker 2: to go back out in twenty twenty two. You had

696
00:42:18,880 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: to you had to do that, and they refused to

697
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,840
Speaker 2: do it, couldn't so, and it was an opportunity to

698
00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:29,240
Speaker 2: have a new band, which is probably and they were great,

699
00:42:29,480 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 2: they were great players, but it was probably time to

700
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:36,680
Speaker 2: have a new band. This is an exceptional band. And

701
00:42:36,920 --> 00:42:39,800
Speaker 2: we also record on our own and have a record

702
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,680
Speaker 2: out that gets played on No Shoes Radio, and we're

703
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,879
Speaker 2: in the process of recording a second record. So yeah,

704
00:42:46,920 --> 00:42:50,080
Speaker 2: we're and what is that bill as the name of

705
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 2: the band is Rosie and the Revival, and the reason

706
00:42:53,560 --> 00:42:55,919
Speaker 2: it's part of the reason it's called that is we

707
00:42:56,239 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 2: At one point he wanted to do a whole lot Rosie,

708
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:08,400
Speaker 2: which is a ac DC song, and so our bass player,

709
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:13,120
Speaker 2: Harmony Kelly, she can really soul shout and she can

710
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,800
Speaker 2: sing really high, so she could sing that's not Bond Scott,

711
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:20,080
Speaker 2: that's the other guy whatever his name is. It's that guy.

712
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,959
Speaker 2: It sing but he sings really high, so she could

713
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 2: do that. So we we we did that song and

714
00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:36,200
Speaker 2: we rehearsed it at a sound check and Robert Scovil

715
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:39,279
Speaker 2: was recording all the soundchecks so we could check our

716
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:44,319
Speaker 2: parts and everything, and he made a little mix of

717
00:43:44,360 --> 00:43:46,200
Speaker 2: that and we listened back to it and went like,

718
00:43:46,239 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 2: holy shit, just sounds amazing. So on our record is

719
00:43:51,320 --> 00:43:54,600
Speaker 2: the first time we played that our sound check our

720
00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:58,560
Speaker 2: that's on the record, so that's hence the name. So

721
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,359
Speaker 2: so she's kind of Rosie, but she doesn't sing all

722
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 2: the songs, and so then we did. So then through

723
00:44:04,239 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 2: the rest of that tour, we did we would record

724
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,920
Speaker 2: our sound checks. We did a Tom Petty song, we

725
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,320
Speaker 2: did a song by the Stones, and we did a

726
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 2: meters instrumental. So I in my studio, I kind of

727
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,799
Speaker 2: cobbled that together and then I also write songs, and

728
00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:23,920
Speaker 2: a couple of the other people in the band write songs.

729
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:27,960
Speaker 2: So we came to my studio, we recorded those songs

730
00:44:28,640 --> 00:44:30,920
Speaker 2: and we really liked it. We played it for Kenny.

731
00:44:31,120 --> 00:44:34,840
Speaker 2: He loved it, and so I just we came up

732
00:44:34,880 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 2: with the idea to call the record sound checks and

733
00:44:37,880 --> 00:44:42,200
Speaker 2: tape decks, which is apropos of what of what of

734
00:44:42,239 --> 00:44:46,720
Speaker 2: what we did? And so yeah, that's out and it's gotten.

735
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:49,600
Speaker 2: You know, it's not like a huge hit record or anything,

736
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:52,719
Speaker 2: but for us, it's been great. And he'll we'll play

737
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 2: a gig and he'll have us do one of our

738
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,000
Speaker 2: songs on the gig. You know, he's very gracious in

739
00:44:57,040 --> 00:44:57,399
Speaker 2: that way.

740
00:44:58,520 --> 00:45:01,080
Speaker 1: So how much equipment? What equipment do you bring on

741
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:01,520
Speaker 1: the road?

742
00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:06,839
Speaker 2: I mean the overall thing is huge. I mean it's

743
00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:11,959
Speaker 2: a stadium gig. So but I like to play through

744
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:20,439
Speaker 2: a Marshall amplifier and the other two guitar players they

745
00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:26,120
Speaker 2: do a lot of switching of instruments, and they do

746
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:30,359
Speaker 2: there's this sort of thing that guitar players do now

747
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:33,480
Speaker 2: where they play a lot of different guitars. Like if

748
00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 2: you go see whoever, they're changing guitar every song. I

749
00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:40,919
Speaker 2: kind of bugs me. And when I when I.

750
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:41,399
Speaker 1: See like.

751
00:45:43,120 --> 00:45:46,879
Speaker 2: A clip of Exile on Main Street that tour, Keith

752
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:49,400
Speaker 2: is playing a strat the whole night. So I have

753
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,920
Speaker 2: this firebird guitar and unless it's in a weird tuning

754
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:56,320
Speaker 2: or I have to switch guitars or play a baritone guitar,

755
00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,520
Speaker 2: which is a low tuned guitar, I just play a

756
00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:03,560
Speaker 2: fire through a Marshall and my setup is is pretty simple.

757
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,920
Speaker 2: I have amps off stage that are miked.

758
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 1: So where'd you grow up?

759
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,520
Speaker 2: I grew up in Cleveland and moved to Louisville in

760
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:19,000
Speaker 2: the sixth grade and moved to Nashville right when I

761
00:46:19,040 --> 00:46:20,520
Speaker 2: turned twenty one.

762
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:25,520
Speaker 1: Okay, so did you play music before the Beatles or

763
00:46:25,719 --> 00:46:27,360
Speaker 1: was more you saw the Beatles and you got to

764
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:27,759
Speaker 1: pick up.

765
00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:31,320
Speaker 2: I saw the Beatles in the Hall deal, the standard deal.

766
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,520
Speaker 2: But I also around that time heard I heard the

767
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 2: Beatles and loved that, and I didn't really play. And

768
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:40,360
Speaker 2: then I heard of Jimmy Hendrick's record, like when I

769
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 2: was in grade school, and that was it. I was it,

770
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:45,640
Speaker 2: and then I had to get a guitar, and then

771
00:46:45,680 --> 00:46:49,440
Speaker 2: I just I didn't. I just played in your typical

772
00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:54,720
Speaker 2: garage band, maybe at a high school dance or something

773
00:46:54,800 --> 00:46:55,200
Speaker 2: like that.

774
00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:57,480
Speaker 1: What'd your parents do for a living?

775
00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:02,919
Speaker 2: My parents are in Cleveland. We grew up in this

776
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:09,120
Speaker 2: sort of working class, middle class area and my dad

777
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:12,719
Speaker 2: was an engineer, a mechanical engineer. My mom was just

778
00:47:12,760 --> 00:47:18,799
Speaker 2: a housewife. And like when I was young, I would

779
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:22,280
Speaker 2: say we were working class. Then as my dad started

780
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: to do better, we were middle class, you know.

781
00:47:27,000 --> 00:47:28,480
Speaker 1: And how many kids in the family.

782
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:32,800
Speaker 2: There's three. There's three of us. I'm I'm the youngest,

783
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:37,560
Speaker 2: and two brothers. And it's also interesting that in Cleveland

784
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:42,799
Speaker 2: it was an entirely Jewish part of town where there

785
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 2: was nobody that wasn't one of us. We're all Jews

786
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,040
Speaker 2: living in this area. And looking back on that, that

787
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 2: was a really great thing. The whole ethnic of the

788
00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:58,160
Speaker 2: northern ethnic culture.

789
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,480
Speaker 1: That was that was good. So what happened to your

790
00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 1: two brothers? How did their lives play out?

791
00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:07,440
Speaker 2: My next oldest brother who I'm very very close to,

792
00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 2: that's a couple of years older than me. He's a

793
00:48:10,719 --> 00:48:15,760
Speaker 2: therapist and he's in Santa Rosa above San Francisco. And

794
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 2: then my oldest brother, who's a good bit older I'm

795
00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:25,200
Speaker 2: not very close with. He was a classical musician, but

796
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,440
Speaker 2: never really did that well and he got into sales

797
00:48:29,320 --> 00:48:33,120
Speaker 2: and then his life just sort of fell apart and

798
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 2: he's had a lot of health problems.

799
00:48:35,320 --> 00:48:37,880
Speaker 1: Well, if he's a classical musician, sounds like there was

800
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:39,839
Speaker 1: a lot of music in the home growing up.

801
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,120
Speaker 2: There was. Yeah, there was a lot, Yeah, definitely.

802
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: And did your parents make you take piano lessons?

803
00:48:48,160 --> 00:48:52,360
Speaker 2: No, but I played trombone and they got me trombone lessons.

804
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:57,040
Speaker 2: They didn't like the guitar thing very much. They sort

805
00:48:57,040 --> 00:49:00,239
Speaker 2: of discouraged that. But I enjoyed trombone and play in

806
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:02,840
Speaker 2: the youth orchestra. I played in the band and I

807
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:05,919
Speaker 2: played cello in the orchestra, so I was always very

808
00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:09,880
Speaker 2: involved in those things, and my parents were very much

809
00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:16,040
Speaker 2: behind that, but they didn't like the thing of playing

810
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:19,080
Speaker 2: in garage bands and loud. I had a amp and

811
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:22,040
Speaker 2: a guitar in my room and I blasted really loud

812
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:26,400
Speaker 2: and play along to Hendricks and Cream and you know

813
00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 2: those kind of records. Then they were not into that

814
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:30,200
Speaker 2: too much.

815
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,759
Speaker 1: Well, if you play the trombone in the cello, are

816
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 1: you the kind of guy who can pick up anything

817
00:49:34,719 --> 00:49:38,440
Speaker 1: and figure out how to play it. No, I'm not.

818
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:41,799
Speaker 2: I have to practice and work at everything. I also

819
00:49:41,840 --> 00:49:45,480
Speaker 2: play steel guitar, and I love playing steel guitar. I'm

820
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 2: not really great at it because I don't play it enough,

821
00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,319
Speaker 2: but I have to really work at something. And I

822
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 2: played bass, so on a lot of the things that

823
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 2: I record here at my studio, I play bass. I

824
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:01,200
Speaker 2: play guitar. I can eke out a key part, you know,

825
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,920
Speaker 2: just sort of get a sound and play some chords

826
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:06,360
Speaker 2: because I know the notes. But I'm not really a

827
00:50:06,400 --> 00:50:08,319
Speaker 2: keyboard player. Yep, that's what I do.

828
00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:10,480
Speaker 1: And what kind of kid were you? Were? You good?

829
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: In school. Did you play spoards? Were a loaner? Did

830
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,040
Speaker 1: you have friends?

831
00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:18,480
Speaker 2: I was kind of a loaner. Our family was a

832
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:23,840
Speaker 2: very dysfunctional family, and we once we grew up in

833
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,200
Speaker 2: I mean, we didn't know this as kids, but once

834
00:50:27,239 --> 00:50:29,640
Speaker 2: we grew up, especially when my brother is a therapist,

835
00:50:30,160 --> 00:50:34,879
Speaker 2: we realized that my dad was on the autism spectrum,

836
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:39,319
Speaker 2: probably a little closer to Asperger's, but he was. He was,

837
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 2: And so he was this guy that I kind of

838
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:43,840
Speaker 2: didn't know. He was a guy that was around, but

839
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:47,759
Speaker 2: I didn't. I had no relationship none with him, and

840
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:50,440
Speaker 2: my mom was in the hospital all the time. So

841
00:50:51,520 --> 00:50:55,160
Speaker 2: we kind of raised ourselves. I didn't have any I mean,

842
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 2: I can tell you to an extreme amount, I had

843
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:05,680
Speaker 2: zero parental supervision in any way whatsoever. There's just I

844
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:07,480
Speaker 2: mean I did. I could come and go as I please.

845
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,040
Speaker 2: I could stay all night and show up the next day.

846
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:14,280
Speaker 2: And it's kind of weird, you know, so, and that's

847
00:51:14,400 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 2: probably not the best way to grow up.

848
00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:18,520
Speaker 1: Why was your mother in the hospital.

849
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:26,359
Speaker 2: She just had all kinds of health issues and she

850
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:30,120
Speaker 2: was we also learned we learned this out actually late

851
00:51:30,160 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 2: in her life. She was adopted and had a very

852
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 2: rough start, and she was just a really messed up person,

853
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:42,440
Speaker 2: like a very angry, messed up person. And once again

854
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:44,799
Speaker 2: I just sort of there was these people that I

855
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,399
Speaker 2: lived in the same house with them, but I did

856
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:52,560
Speaker 2: not really have a relationship with them, and so music

857
00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:54,200
Speaker 2: was my escape.

858
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:55,120
Speaker 1: You know.

859
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 2: I was grateful to have that. That's kind of how

860
00:51:57,120 --> 00:51:57,760
Speaker 2: I escaped.

861
00:51:58,080 --> 00:52:01,040
Speaker 1: So you live in outside Cleveland, you move moved to Louisville.

862
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:02,640
Speaker 1: How is that different?

863
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 2: It was night and day because my dad had gotten

864
00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:11,680
Speaker 2: a better job and we lived in the suburbs and

865
00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 2: there were no Jews, and so.

866
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:16,880
Speaker 1: It was it was weird.

867
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:19,400
Speaker 2: It was a little weird, but you know, I in

868
00:52:20,480 --> 00:52:22,720
Speaker 2: junior high school. In high school, I had some really

869
00:52:22,719 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 2: good friends and I played in some bands, but I

870
00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 2: also got in a lot of trouble and I got

871
00:52:28,840 --> 00:52:32,200
Speaker 2: into drugs, and it was sort of I was just

872
00:52:32,239 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 2: sort of the trying to figure myself out. And because

873
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:40,360
Speaker 2: I didn't have any supervision, I did some things I

874
00:52:40,360 --> 00:52:43,200
Speaker 2: shouldn't have done and was around some people I shouldn't

875
00:52:43,200 --> 00:52:47,040
Speaker 2: have been around. I actually got arrested a couple of times,

876
00:52:47,719 --> 00:52:52,279
Speaker 2: and yeah, so it was but actually my I had

877
00:52:52,320 --> 00:52:56,080
Speaker 2: one really really great friend named Jeff Sipperman, who was

878
00:52:56,239 --> 00:53:00,319
Speaker 2: Jewish as well. We were the two Jewish kids at

879
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 2: our school. There's probably a couple others, but as far

880
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:05,960
Speaker 2: as I can remember, it was the two of us,

881
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 2: and we both moved to Nashville together. He played bass,

882
00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:14,200
Speaker 2: So we moved together to Nashville to seek our fame

883
00:53:14,239 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 2: and fortune at the ripe age of twenty one or

884
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:21,040
Speaker 2: twenty I guess I was just turning twenty one my moved.

885
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,520
Speaker 1: Okay, before we get there, are you playing in bands

886
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:25,280
Speaker 1: in high school?

887
00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:34,800
Speaker 2: I'm playing in like garages and rehearsing and basements. Yeah,

888
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:38,279
Speaker 2: I'm sort of doing it and sort of kind of

889
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:42,719
Speaker 2: doing it, but not really. I mean, I would have

890
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:44,440
Speaker 2: a guitar. Then I wouldn't have a guitar. Then I

891
00:53:44,440 --> 00:53:48,800
Speaker 2: would have a guitar, and I'd been playing trombone and.

892
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:55,080
Speaker 1: So sort of, yeah, what point did the bell go off?

893
00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: I want to do this for a living.

894
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:02,320
Speaker 2: I went to college for a year and I always

895
00:54:02,360 --> 00:54:05,640
Speaker 2: got really good grades, and I got an academic scholarship

896
00:54:06,280 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 2: and to where to Bradley, to Bradley University, and I

897
00:54:12,719 --> 00:54:17,360
Speaker 2: wasn't in the music program, but I took a improvisational

898
00:54:17,680 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 2: music course for at that time was an unusual thing

899
00:54:21,680 --> 00:54:25,719
Speaker 2: to have. And I had my guitar and amplifier at

900
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:31,439
Speaker 2: the school in my trombone, and the music teacher was.

901
00:54:34,480 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 1: Really great, and.

902
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:39,040
Speaker 2: There's a couple of different people. There wasn't a specific

903
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 2: person like a mentor or anything like that, but they

904
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:45,840
Speaker 2: really encouraged me. And what I realized is that I

905
00:54:45,880 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 2: didn't want to be in college, that I wanted to play.

906
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:53,560
Speaker 2: And so I moved back to Nashville and got a

907
00:54:53,600 --> 00:54:56,959
Speaker 2: gig in a Holiday Inn lounge band.

908
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,040
Speaker 1: Wait wait, wait, back to Nashville or Louisville.

909
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:01,000
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, I met.

910
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:01,719
Speaker 1: I moved back to.

911
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:10,440
Speaker 2: Louisville and I lived at my girlfriend's house and her

912
00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,480
Speaker 2: parents were splitting up and no one was ever there.

913
00:55:12,560 --> 00:55:14,600
Speaker 2: So I was living at my girlfriend's house. I was

914
00:55:14,680 --> 00:55:19,719
Speaker 2: like eighteen, and I got a gig and a Holiday

915
00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:22,920
Speaker 2: Inn band, and once again, my best friend Jeff was

916
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:27,600
Speaker 2: playing bass, and we had this this lounge gig and

917
00:55:27,640 --> 00:55:30,160
Speaker 2: we were getting paid like three hundred dollars a week

918
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:34,359
Speaker 2: to play and we're like, this is amazing and so

919
00:55:35,440 --> 00:55:37,200
Speaker 2: and we just were having a ball.

920
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:38,520
Speaker 1: And so.

921
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 2: That's when I started to think I had quit college

922
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 2: and I was practicing all day long and trying to

923
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 2: learn new things, and we met there. There was a

924
00:55:54,200 --> 00:55:59,000
Speaker 2: showcase bar in Louisville called the Lemon Tree and they

925
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:02,680
Speaker 2: had like touring bands would play there, and we saw

926
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:06,200
Speaker 2: this kind of outlaw country band play and we went

927
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:08,319
Speaker 2: and we would go there because they would play later

928
00:56:08,400 --> 00:56:10,520
Speaker 2: than we played, and we would go there and see

929
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:13,240
Speaker 2: who was playing. And there was this one band playing

930
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:17,600
Speaker 2: there and the drummer, who's this very friendly guy, were

931
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:19,480
Speaker 2: talking to him and saying, hey, we playing a holiday

932
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:21,680
Speaker 2: inn band, and he said, you guys need to move

933
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:25,840
Speaker 2: to Nashville. This band was from Nashville, and the drummer

934
00:56:25,920 --> 00:56:27,279
Speaker 2: was saying, you guys, what are you doing up here?

935
00:56:27,320 --> 00:56:29,840
Speaker 2: This is the wrong place to be. So we actually

936
00:56:30,200 --> 00:56:35,160
Speaker 2: went down for a weekend when I was twenty and

937
00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,640
Speaker 2: stayed at his house and went to a couple of

938
00:56:38,719 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 2: clubs in Nashville and he sort of took us around

939
00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:46,840
Speaker 2: and we said, that's it, We're coming to Nashville. So

940
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:51,000
Speaker 2: we came back to Louisville, gave our two weeks notice,

941
00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:57,520
Speaker 2: put all of our stuff in my car, and this drummer,

942
00:56:57,760 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 2: Rich Kallus, this artist he was playing with, had a

943
00:57:02,719 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 2: single out and they were going to go on the road,

944
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:08,600
Speaker 2: and his wife was six months pregnant, and he said,

945
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:11,320
Speaker 2: you guys can save my house for free. So someone

946
00:57:11,440 --> 00:57:16,240
Speaker 2: was there with my wife, so she's not there by herself.

947
00:57:16,240 --> 00:57:18,440
Speaker 2: And so Jeff and I looked at each other and said,

948
00:57:19,160 --> 00:57:19,720
Speaker 2: this is.

949
00:57:19,640 --> 00:57:20,200
Speaker 1: This is it.

950
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:22,360
Speaker 2: We got it. We got a way to go. So

951
00:57:23,080 --> 00:57:29,240
Speaker 2: we loaded up our car and on February second, nineteen seventy.

952
00:57:28,800 --> 00:57:32,880
Speaker 1: Eight, we moved to Nashville. A couple of questions. You

953
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:38,080
Speaker 1: mentioned Jimmy Hendricks, why I realized the opportunities came up,

954
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 1: but you didn't think of moving to LA I mean

955
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: in the seventies, Nashville, you know, was very country, not

956
00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:47,680
Speaker 1: like today where it's influenced by rock and roll.

957
00:57:49,160 --> 00:57:52,480
Speaker 2: I think to be really well, there's there's two reasons.

958
00:57:52,840 --> 00:57:58,000
Speaker 2: We loved the whole outlaw movement. Like we love Johnny Paycheck.

959
00:57:58,120 --> 00:58:00,520
Speaker 2: We're really in it. And this was before take this

960
00:58:00,640 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 2: job and Shove it his Like earlier records we thought

961
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:08,240
Speaker 2: they were just great. The Whalen record, Dreaming My Dreams

962
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:15,439
Speaker 2: and Rambling Man to Us. Those records were more rock.

963
00:58:15,520 --> 00:58:18,080
Speaker 2: And this is like nineteen seventy seven, nineteen seventy eight,

964
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,720
Speaker 2: to us, those records were more rock and roll than

965
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,760
Speaker 2: like Kansas. There was this rawness to that, and there

966
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:30,920
Speaker 2: was the guitar, the way it sounded, and in particular,

967
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 2: there's a Hank Junior song called Feeling Better and it's

968
00:58:37,080 --> 00:58:41,240
Speaker 2: actually Reggie Young on guitar. It's Reggie Young and Whalen

969
00:58:41,320 --> 00:58:46,960
Speaker 2: on guitar and something about that song. It was country,

970
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,800
Speaker 2: but it had this raw it was kind of the blues.

971
00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 2: I don't know that. I think that song came out

972
00:58:53,840 --> 00:58:57,480
Speaker 2: maybe in seventy seven, and that was our song. We

973
00:58:57,600 --> 00:59:00,400
Speaker 2: heard that song like that is the most bad ass

974
00:59:00,440 --> 00:59:03,800
Speaker 2: shit I've ever heard. Said they're making it in Nashville.

975
00:59:03,880 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 2: Let's go to Nashville. And on the other side of it,

976
00:59:06,720 --> 00:59:09,600
Speaker 2: you know, to be honest, is that New York and

977
00:59:09,800 --> 00:59:14,680
Speaker 2: LA were intimidating. They were far away, and Nashville was

978
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:17,280
Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty miles away, and we had a

979
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,200
Speaker 2: free place to stay. So I really didn't have a plan.

980
00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 2: It just seemed the next best thing. I didn't have

981
00:59:23,080 --> 00:59:23,640
Speaker 2: any kind.

982
00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: Of like looking into the future.

983
00:59:26,680 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 2: I had no freaking idea what I was going to do.

984
00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:31,440
Speaker 2: We just we just moved there.

985
00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:36,600
Speaker 1: Okay, those records you mentioned the Outlaw country records. At

986
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:38,520
Speaker 1: that time, I'm living in LA. We don't even have

987
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:42,920
Speaker 1: a station that's playing country when I would drive cross

988
00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,240
Speaker 1: country when I lived on the East coast. Maybe if

989
00:59:45,240 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 1: you were in the hinter leands, you know, there'd be

990
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:50,000
Speaker 1: an AM station you're you know, turning the value to

991
00:59:50,040 --> 00:59:52,240
Speaker 1: hear that. So what did you get exposed to this stuff?

992
00:59:56,520 --> 00:59:57,200
Speaker 1: I don't.

993
00:59:57,680 --> 01:00:02,920
Speaker 2: I think because we had this. We were playing with

994
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:07,720
Speaker 2: this lounge singer who was into country music, and we

995
01:00:07,800 --> 01:00:12,080
Speaker 2: played kind of more. We played some Whalen and we

996
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:17,960
Speaker 2: played some whatever was of the day, good hearted Woman,

997
01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:26,640
Speaker 2: some of those Willies songs, and we just so we

998
01:00:26,720 --> 01:00:30,840
Speaker 2: found those records and we just liked it. I mean,

999
01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,480
Speaker 2: I don't really know the answer to that question. It's

1000
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:36,280
Speaker 2: a good question to ask. I think we just sort

1001
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:39,000
Speaker 2: of discovered that. I would also say my friend Jeff,

1002
01:00:39,520 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 2: he was this very, very bright guy who sadly enough

1003
01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 2: was an addict and ended up it killed them. But

1004
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:52,320
Speaker 2: he was just this really bright guy and he just

1005
01:00:52,480 --> 01:00:57,880
Speaker 2: found these records. So we found these early Haggard records,

1006
01:00:57,880 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 2: and the guitar playing on those early Haggard record they're amazing.

1007
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:03,920
Speaker 2: And I just listened and it was so kind of

1008
01:01:04,160 --> 01:01:08,480
Speaker 2: raw and funky sound, and I just liked it so

1009
01:01:09,200 --> 01:01:12,520
Speaker 2: And it's funny because I'm not a great country guitar player.

1010
01:01:12,520 --> 01:01:15,880
Speaker 2: I'm really more of a blues guitar player. But there's

1011
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:19,080
Speaker 2: something about those records that I liked, and I just thought, Okay,

1012
01:01:19,080 --> 01:01:21,280
Speaker 2: so Nashville is really close. We're just going to go

1013
01:01:21,320 --> 01:01:24,240
Speaker 2: down there with no plan. I have any plan.

1014
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:27,040
Speaker 1: Okay. Would your parents see about you dropping out of college?

1015
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:33,440
Speaker 2: They were not happy about it, but typical of my parents,

1016
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:35,960
Speaker 2: they just sort of didn't say much about it.

1017
01:01:36,800 --> 01:01:39,120
Speaker 1: You were living on your own money, You weren't asking

1018
01:01:39,120 --> 01:01:40,280
Speaker 1: for any money, or were you.

1019
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,040
Speaker 2: I was totally on my own. I've pretty much always

1020
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:47,840
Speaker 2: been on my own. I got a scholarship for college,

1021
01:01:49,520 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 2: an academic scholarship. They didn't have to pay for anything.

1022
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:56,400
Speaker 2: And when I moved to Nashville, I mean when I

1023
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,680
Speaker 2: moved back to Louisville, I got a job at this

1024
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:03,920
Speaker 2: life like home depot type place, and I found an

1025
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:09,920
Speaker 2: apartment that was I think it was one hundred and

1026
01:02:09,920 --> 01:02:13,560
Speaker 2: twenty five a month, and I had a job that

1027
01:02:13,600 --> 01:02:17,400
Speaker 2: I could walk to and then I got a car

1028
01:02:17,520 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 2: soon after that for like no money, almost I bought

1029
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:31,440
Speaker 2: an old car and so I was just on my own. Yeah.

1030
01:02:31,520 --> 01:02:34,840
Speaker 1: Okay, So now you show up in Nashville. You're babysitting

1031
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:38,440
Speaker 1: the pregnant. Wait, what do you do? You don't know anybody.

1032
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 2: Well, here's what happened. I've told the story a bunch

1033
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,600
Speaker 2: of times, and this is I mean, this is what happened.

1034
01:02:45,320 --> 01:02:50,800
Speaker 2: So we drive in my car on February second. We

1035
01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:54,760
Speaker 2: drive to Nashville, and we have a place to stay,

1036
01:02:55,320 --> 01:02:59,600
Speaker 2: and we go there and the wife of rich Sharon,

1037
01:02:59,680 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 2: Sharon callus. She's there. She's got a room set up

1038
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,240
Speaker 2: with a couple of mattresses that me and Jeff can

1039
01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:12,880
Speaker 2: stay in. And we each had like our little funky suitcase.

1040
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:14,480
Speaker 2: We dropped it off, but I had my amp in

1041
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:17,520
Speaker 2: my car. And as we were driving to Sharon's house,

1042
01:03:18,600 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 2: we heard there's a bar that had twenty five cent beer,

1043
01:03:24,600 --> 01:03:26,400
Speaker 2: and we said, this is our first night in Nashville,

1044
01:03:26,480 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 2: let's go celebrate. And it was called the Long Branch Saloon.

1045
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,160
Speaker 2: And so we go to the Long Branch Saloon is

1046
01:03:35,200 --> 01:03:40,040
Speaker 2: twenty five sent beer and we go in there and

1047
01:03:40,080 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 2: there's a guy like on a construction palette that you know,

1048
01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,880
Speaker 2: you would stack bags of I don't know, feed or whatever.

1049
01:03:48,320 --> 01:03:51,560
Speaker 2: He's on there with his electric guitarists little pa playing

1050
01:03:51,600 --> 01:03:55,520
Speaker 2: the blues. And I'm always been a blues nerd. So

1051
01:03:56,640 --> 01:03:58,240
Speaker 2: he's in there playing and I just went up to

1052
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:01,320
Speaker 2: him and his name was Bobby Bradford. And I went

1053
01:04:01,360 --> 01:04:03,720
Speaker 2: up to him and I said, we just moved to town.

1054
01:04:04,440 --> 01:04:07,800
Speaker 2: We have our guitars in the car. Can we play

1055
01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 2: with you? He said, bring them on in. So we

1056
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,440
Speaker 2: got our I got my amp out of the trunk,

1057
01:04:14,840 --> 01:04:17,760
Speaker 2: Jeff had his bass, he plugged it into the PA.

1058
01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:21,640
Speaker 2: I got my guitar and we played with Bobby. He

1059
01:04:22,280 --> 01:04:23,800
Speaker 2: loved it, and he said, I've been looking for guys

1060
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:27,640
Speaker 2: that like the blues. And so he had a gig

1061
01:04:27,840 --> 01:04:31,720
Speaker 2: there on Monday nights, and he had a Wednesday night

1062
01:04:31,920 --> 01:04:39,560
Speaker 2: at this Vanderbilt bar called the Villager. And so literally

1063
01:04:39,640 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 2: the night we got there, we had two nights a

1064
01:04:42,520 --> 01:04:48,400
Speaker 2: week of gigs. And then this thing happened where we

1065
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:53,959
Speaker 2: just became the Vanderbilt band, like right away and right away,

1066
01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,600
Speaker 2: and then we added dates and we would play frat parties.

1067
01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 1: And this is with Bobby Bradford with who.

1068
01:05:00,920 --> 01:05:03,840
Speaker 2: This is with Bobby Bradford. This happened in the space

1069
01:05:03,880 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 2: of about six weeks. Okay, it just I don't I mean,

1070
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:09,400
Speaker 2: I'm telling you this is I tell the story and

1071
01:05:09,440 --> 01:05:12,600
Speaker 2: I think about it going like this is impossible, but

1072
01:05:12,720 --> 01:05:15,600
Speaker 2: this is what happened. It's like it was this wonderful,

1073
01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:20,160
Speaker 2: amazing thing where all of a sudden it was packed

1074
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:23,640
Speaker 2: every night we played, and it was Vanderbilt Kids. And

1075
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 2: Bobby was a biker and he was in his thirties

1076
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:30,400
Speaker 2: and so he had and he was affiliated with I

1077
01:05:30,440 --> 01:05:34,439
Speaker 2: don't remember the name of the biker club, but one

1078
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,520
Speaker 2: of the where they would wear the jackets, you know, right,

1079
01:05:37,680 --> 01:05:40,120
Speaker 2: and with their names on the back of it, and

1080
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:42,640
Speaker 2: like the Fortune Seekers. I don't I can't remember the

1081
01:05:42,720 --> 01:05:46,000
Speaker 2: name of it. And so those guys would all show up.

1082
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:49,200
Speaker 2: So we would play at the Villager and it would

1083
01:05:49,200 --> 01:05:53,880
Speaker 2: be wall to wall with these club bikers and Van

1084
01:05:53,920 --> 01:05:57,760
Speaker 2: Dey Preppy's students, and it just became a scene. And

1085
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:02,919
Speaker 2: so then Bobby Bradford was in the process of leasing

1086
01:06:03,440 --> 01:06:07,960
Speaker 2: this like funky boat house on the outskirts of town,

1087
01:06:08,840 --> 01:06:12,840
Speaker 2: and he made that into his blues club and they

1088
01:06:12,880 --> 01:06:16,040
Speaker 2: had a place to live in the back. And this

1089
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:18,560
Speaker 2: was about June, so we got there in February. This

1090
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 2: is in June. He leases the club. Me and Jeff

1091
01:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,120
Speaker 2: move into the back of this bar, and we're playing

1092
01:06:25,160 --> 01:06:28,000
Speaker 2: five nights a week at this bar. And although he

1093
01:06:28,040 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 2: had let we advertise it at Vanderbilt, so here comes

1094
01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:35,320
Speaker 2: all the Vanderbilt students and the bikers, and I've got

1095
01:06:35,320 --> 01:06:39,200
Speaker 2: a five night a week gig. That is how I

1096
01:06:39,240 --> 01:06:39,880
Speaker 2: got started.

1097
01:06:41,200 --> 01:06:47,200
Speaker 1: Okay, at that point, what was the dream, Bob? You know?

1098
01:06:47,560 --> 01:06:53,240
Speaker 2: Man, I don't know, because I felt like I would

1099
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 2: regularly think what am I doing here? Or people would

1100
01:06:57,400 --> 01:07:00,320
Speaker 2: say to me, what are you doing here? You're like

1101
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:02,840
Speaker 2: a rock guitar player. Why are you well? You know,

1102
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:04,360
Speaker 2: I would go like, I don't know. I'm in this

1103
01:07:04,440 --> 01:07:07,200
Speaker 2: blues band and everybody likes us, and I'm twenty one

1104
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:11,160
Speaker 2: years old. I don't know what I'm doing. And the

1105
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 2: and we ended up having a quote unquote manager, and

1106
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:23,919
Speaker 2: we took a church bus and converted it and put

1107
01:07:23,920 --> 01:07:26,520
Speaker 2: our ants in and played all around the South. We

1108
01:07:26,560 --> 01:07:28,480
Speaker 2: had a little bit of a following. It was not

1109
01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,120
Speaker 2: really a great band, it was, but it was a

1110
01:07:31,160 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 2: great experience. And I don't know what I was doing.

1111
01:07:36,400 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 2: But what ended up happening is that Bobby wisely, in

1112
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:47,560
Speaker 2: the early part of the week he would have songwriters

1113
01:07:47,560 --> 01:07:50,680
Speaker 2: come play, like where they do the guitar poll, and

1114
01:07:50,720 --> 01:07:53,280
Speaker 2: they'd be in a circle and it was a place

1115
01:07:53,280 --> 01:07:55,920
Speaker 2: for them to come play. So I would do the

1116
01:07:55,960 --> 01:07:59,320
Speaker 2: exact same thing where I would say, Hey, I play

1117
01:07:59,320 --> 01:08:01,600
Speaker 2: in the week on I'm in the house band for

1118
01:08:01,640 --> 01:08:04,480
Speaker 2: the weekends. Can I come back you up? And you know,

1119
01:08:05,120 --> 01:08:08,400
Speaker 2: a songwriter would say, yeah, back me up. And so

1120
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:12,120
Speaker 2: the eventuality of that would be that one of those

1121
01:08:12,160 --> 01:08:15,880
Speaker 2: songwriters would say, I'm going into the studio to make

1122
01:08:15,920 --> 01:08:18,599
Speaker 2: a demo tape of my songs. Why don't you come play?

1123
01:08:18,840 --> 01:08:21,880
Speaker 2: I'll pay you forty dollars And it's like, incredible, I

1124
01:08:21,880 --> 01:08:24,479
Speaker 2: get to go to the studio. So that's how I

1125
01:08:24,520 --> 01:08:26,000
Speaker 2: got into the studios.

1126
01:08:26,880 --> 01:08:28,439
Speaker 1: So what ended up happening with Jeff.

1127
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:34,200
Speaker 2: What ended up happening with Jeff is we did about

1128
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:38,519
Speaker 2: a year hit that bar, maybe a year and a half,

1129
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,959
Speaker 2: and then it was just a disaster of a business

1130
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:43,880
Speaker 2: and you could see that it was not going to

1131
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:48,559
Speaker 2: work out. And Bobby was into drugs and selling drugs,

1132
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:53,240
Speaker 2: and Jeff, who was from a well to do family

1133
01:08:53,880 --> 01:08:59,320
Speaker 2: and he got in with the biker crowd and started

1134
01:08:59,360 --> 01:09:02,559
Speaker 2: shooting dough. And once he started shooting dope, he became

1135
01:09:02,600 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 2: addicted and I would pick him up for gigs and

1136
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:09,600
Speaker 2: I would go into the house and they'd all be

1137
01:09:09,880 --> 01:09:13,479
Speaker 2: half passed out with the needles, and it was a drag.

1138
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 2: And he went to prison because he got caught selling

1139
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:23,200
Speaker 2: heroin or writing fake prescriptions. He went to prison twice.

1140
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:25,920
Speaker 2: One time got caught with heroin, the other time he

1141
01:09:26,000 --> 01:09:29,400
Speaker 2: was writing fake scripts. He got out the second time

1142
01:09:30,320 --> 01:09:35,080
Speaker 2: and immediately went and shot dope and overdosed and died.

1143
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:36,360
Speaker 2: Very sad.

1144
01:09:39,439 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 1: Wow, that's a sad story.

1145
01:09:42,240 --> 01:09:44,479
Speaker 3: Yeah, he was my mate.

1146
01:09:44,840 --> 01:09:48,160
Speaker 1: Jumping back, you're working with songwriters in the studio? What's

1147
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:52,560
Speaker 1: the step after that?

1148
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:55,160
Speaker 2: That went on for a long for I mean I

1149
01:09:55,200 --> 01:09:59,240
Speaker 2: was not I did not immediately get into being a

1150
01:09:59,280 --> 01:10:02,439
Speaker 2: session player. It was really that I was in this

1151
01:10:02,600 --> 01:10:08,160
Speaker 2: band and I would occasionally go into the studio with songwriters.

1152
01:10:08,280 --> 01:10:11,600
Speaker 2: But maybe I had a tiny bit of a reputation.

1153
01:10:12,680 --> 01:10:16,200
Speaker 2: But what happened is a couple of years after the

1154
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:23,200
Speaker 2: Bobby Bradford Blues Band, there were other bands around town.

1155
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:28,280
Speaker 2: There's this really great songwriter named Dave One who has

1156
01:10:28,320 --> 01:10:34,080
Speaker 2: since passed away, and he had a hot band around town,

1157
01:10:34,479 --> 01:10:37,400
Speaker 2: and I started playing with his band. And there was

1158
01:10:37,439 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 2: a singer named Jimmy Hall who was in Wetwillie and

1159
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:44,799
Speaker 2: he moved to Nashville and he was playing gigs around.

1160
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:48,960
Speaker 2: So I found myself before I was a session guy.

1161
01:10:49,040 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 2: I found myself being the guy that played in five

1162
01:10:52,280 --> 01:10:55,120
Speaker 2: different bands. I was like twenty three, you know, I

1163
01:10:55,120 --> 01:10:57,160
Speaker 2: played in a bunch of different bands. I was just

1164
01:10:57,240 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 2: around town. So then Dave One would get a chance

1165
01:11:01,120 --> 01:11:04,280
Speaker 2: to make another record, and he had a band called

1166
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:11,439
Speaker 2: the x Rays, and this writer named Don Schlitz who

1167
01:11:11,520 --> 01:11:16,880
Speaker 2: wrote The Gambler. He produced that record, and I got

1168
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:19,320
Speaker 2: to play on the record, and I met Don and

1169
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:21,400
Speaker 2: then played on some stuff for Don, and then met

1170
01:11:21,400 --> 01:11:24,400
Speaker 2: all the people from the publishing company he was with

1171
01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 2: and then played with them. And then I played with

1172
01:11:27,280 --> 01:11:29,120
Speaker 2: three or four of the other bands I was in.

1173
01:11:29,400 --> 01:11:31,760
Speaker 2: Somebody would go in and record, and I would show

1174
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 2: up and record, but I was very much on the

1175
01:11:34,439 --> 01:11:38,479
Speaker 2: outside of the session. It was still very much of

1176
01:11:38,520 --> 01:11:45,240
Speaker 2: a good old boy kind of a closed thing. But eventually,

1177
01:11:45,280 --> 01:11:49,839
Speaker 2: you know, or occasionally I would get called for something,

1178
01:11:50,360 --> 01:11:55,080
Speaker 2: or I'd play on a songwriter's song, and that an

1179
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:59,599
Speaker 2: artist would cut that and the producer would say who's

1180
01:11:59,680 --> 01:12:03,920
Speaker 2: playing that guitar? And they would the song and say, well,

1181
01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:06,880
Speaker 2: say it was me, and I would be invited to

1182
01:12:06,920 --> 01:12:10,479
Speaker 2: come over dub or track on that song. And that's

1183
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:14,439
Speaker 2: kind of how I made my way into the session scene.

1184
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:17,320
Speaker 1: Well, at what point did it turn the corner?

1185
01:12:19,240 --> 01:12:27,080
Speaker 2: It turned the corner when I was in this band.

1186
01:12:27,720 --> 01:12:31,519
Speaker 2: Two things happened. I got into this band. It was

1187
01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:34,639
Speaker 2: a blues band called the Kingsnakes and we would play

1188
01:12:34,640 --> 01:12:37,400
Speaker 2: at the Bluebird every Monday night. And the drummer was

1189
01:12:37,479 --> 01:12:41,639
Speaker 2: James Stroud, who was a famous record producer and drummer

1190
01:12:41,680 --> 01:12:46,200
Speaker 2: from Muscle Shoals and hear it's from Jackson actually, but

1191
01:12:46,400 --> 01:12:50,000
Speaker 2: was in the Muscle Shoals scene. And the famous studio

1192
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:55,040
Speaker 2: player Glenn Wharf was on bass. And so we'd play

1193
01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:59,120
Speaker 2: every Monday night and we made a little record and

1194
01:12:59,680 --> 01:13:04,040
Speaker 2: that band became the band to see. Everybody would everybody

1195
01:13:04,080 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 2: who was in town would be there on Monday night,

1196
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:10,559
Speaker 2: from you know, whoever, from Bonnie Rait to whoever they

1197
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:12,760
Speaker 2: somebody was in town, they would be there at see

1198
01:13:12,840 --> 01:13:20,120
Speaker 2: us play. And so that and then I produced a

1199
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:24,280
Speaker 2: couple of demos on an artist named Alison Moore, and

1200
01:13:24,720 --> 01:13:28,400
Speaker 2: she got a record deal on MCA and Tony Brown

1201
01:13:28,640 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 2: signed her. And I made that record and played all

1202
01:13:32,120 --> 01:13:36,360
Speaker 2: the guitars on it, and so Tony started to use me.

1203
01:13:36,479 --> 01:13:41,320
Speaker 2: So right about the mid and late nineties, those two

1204
01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:45,800
Speaker 2: things happened and I found myself playing on a lot

1205
01:13:45,800 --> 01:13:46,880
Speaker 2: of records.

1206
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:50,800
Speaker 1: Okay, how did you meet Alison Moore? And how did

1207
01:13:50,840 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 1: you say? I'm the guy that produced the demo?

1208
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:58,640
Speaker 2: I met Alison Moore because I had right before that,

1209
01:14:00,320 --> 01:14:05,360
Speaker 2: I had There's this guy named Wally Wilson. I know

1210
01:14:05,400 --> 01:14:07,240
Speaker 2: I'm probably saying all these names.

1211
01:14:06,920 --> 01:14:10,320
Speaker 4: To your little I know the audience can do the

1212
01:14:10,439 --> 01:14:12,960
Speaker 4: research in it. Yeah, yeah, who the hell are all

1213
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:16,600
Speaker 4: these people he's talking about? So this guy who was

1214
01:14:16,640 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 4: in the Kingsnakes with me named Wally Wilson, who is

1215
01:14:20,640 --> 01:14:23,400
Speaker 4: who was a mentor? He was a songwriting mentor to me.

1216
01:14:23,720 --> 01:14:27,599
Speaker 4: It's a lot older than me. And you remember the movie, uh,

1217
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:32,120
Speaker 4: The Apostle with Robert Duvall. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, you

1218
01:14:32,160 --> 01:14:34,960
Speaker 4: ever see that movie where he's this kind of wild

1219
01:14:35,080 --> 01:14:38,720
Speaker 4: guy that picks fights, and so Wally Wilson is a

1220
01:14:38,800 --> 01:14:44,280
Speaker 4: cross between the Apostle and fog Horn. Leg Horn He's

1221
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:50,000
Speaker 4: this Texas loudmouth character. And he was in the band

1222
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:58,160
Speaker 4: and we wrote songs together, and he somehow met Aaron Jacovis,

1223
01:14:58,640 --> 01:15:04,360
Speaker 4: who was an a and are Virgin, and Aaron was

1224
01:15:04,600 --> 01:15:08,360
Speaker 4: hanging around Nashville because Nashville was starting to change and

1225
01:15:08,439 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 4: things were starting to happen. So Aaron's hanging around Nashville.

1226
01:15:11,960 --> 01:15:15,920
Speaker 4: Wally is writing for Sony Tree. He's writing at Sony.

1227
01:15:16,040 --> 01:15:19,040
Speaker 4: So Aaron is, I guess we're looking for songs for somebody,

1228
01:15:19,200 --> 01:15:23,040
Speaker 4: because Wally is the most likable guy you will ever meet.

1229
01:15:23,439 --> 01:15:25,360
Speaker 4: And I mean, he's just this, He's a character, and

1230
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:30,959
Speaker 4: he says the craziest shit. So Aaron and Wally become friends,

1231
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:38,880
Speaker 4: and Aaron says, Aaron says, I've been assigned Joan Biez.

1232
01:15:39,760 --> 01:15:42,599
Speaker 4: What am I gonna do with Joan byas she's on Virgin,

1233
01:15:42,680 --> 01:15:45,960
Speaker 4: I don't know, And and Wally goes, well, we should

1234
01:15:46,000 --> 01:15:47,280
Speaker 4: make her record and write.

1235
01:15:47,000 --> 01:15:53,600
Speaker 2: All her songs. And so Wally says, We're going to

1236
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 2: San Francisco, by God, and we're gonna go write songs

1237
01:15:56,880 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 2: with Joan Bias. This is way, he said it. So

1238
01:16:01,160 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 2: so Sony Publishing bought us tickets. We went and got

1239
01:16:08,560 --> 01:16:13,120
Speaker 2: so we went to Joan's house and hung out with

1240
01:16:13,160 --> 01:16:16,920
Speaker 2: her and wrote songs with her, and Wally's going, JONK,

1241
01:16:17,479 --> 01:16:21,160
Speaker 2: we're going to produce your record. And Joan just loved

1242
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:24,120
Speaker 2: Wally and said okay. And so when we made a

1243
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:26,719
Speaker 2: record on Joan with Aaron, and we ended up making

1244
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:35,559
Speaker 2: two records with her, and so Aaron after that said hey,

1245
01:16:35,720 --> 01:16:38,960
Speaker 2: I heard the singer name Alison Moore and she's amazing.

1246
01:16:39,439 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 2: Why don't you cut some sides on her? I said great,

1247
01:16:42,360 --> 01:16:45,360
Speaker 2: And so he also spoke to Tony Brown, so Tony

1248
01:16:45,400 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 2: Brown was into signing her. So Tony Brown, through Aaron Jacovis,

1249
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 2: paid for me to take Alison into the studio to

1250
01:16:55,280 --> 01:16:58,240
Speaker 2: cut some songs. And one of the songs we cut

1251
01:16:58,560 --> 01:17:02,479
Speaker 2: was called Soft Place to Fall, which ended up in

1252
01:17:02,520 --> 01:17:07,880
Speaker 2: the movie The Horse Whisperer and was nominated for an

1253
01:17:07,920 --> 01:17:13,240
Speaker 2: Academy Award. So that's that's that's how I got started.

1254
01:17:13,439 --> 01:17:14,639
Speaker 2: That's how I got that gig.

1255
01:17:15,320 --> 01:17:21,000
Speaker 1: Okay, most musicians, especially those who are not the front person,

1256
01:17:21,600 --> 01:17:26,720
Speaker 1: are incredible networkers. Were you working it in Nashville? Were

1257
01:17:26,760 --> 01:17:31,000
Speaker 1: you getting to know everybody, hang everybody, talking to everybody.

1258
01:17:31,680 --> 01:17:36,519
Speaker 2: No, I've never been a good networker. I just always

1259
01:17:36,520 --> 01:17:38,640
Speaker 2: feel and I did go up to people and say hey,

1260
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:40,680
Speaker 2: I'd love to play with you, and I still do that,

1261
01:17:41,280 --> 01:17:44,559
Speaker 2: but I am not a networker. I am not good

1262
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:46,760
Speaker 2: at that. I think it would be fair to.

1263
01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:53,200
Speaker 1: Say, Okay, so you're playing the guitar and now through

1264
01:17:53,240 --> 01:17:56,760
Speaker 1: Wally you get this opportunity. At what point do you say, well,

1265
01:17:56,760 --> 01:17:58,400
Speaker 1: maybe I want to be a record producer.

1266
01:18:00,400 --> 01:18:03,400
Speaker 2: That was it. I think when we had our band,

1267
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:06,880
Speaker 2: The King Snakes and we actually made a record for

1268
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:10,240
Speaker 2: CURB Records. We got a record deal, but it was

1269
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:12,519
Speaker 2: kind of ridiculous because nobody would go on the road.

1270
01:18:12,560 --> 01:18:15,040
Speaker 2: They were all I mean, our drummer was the head

1271
01:18:15,080 --> 01:18:19,400
Speaker 2: of us, the head of CBS Records. It's ridiculous there

1272
01:18:19,479 --> 01:18:21,360
Speaker 2: was but we made a record and we actually played

1273
01:18:21,360 --> 01:18:23,760
Speaker 2: a couple of festivals, but it was there's no way

1274
01:18:23,800 --> 01:18:27,160
Speaker 2: we're going to go on the road. And so I

1275
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:30,600
Speaker 2: was really involved in the production of that record and

1276
01:18:31,040 --> 01:18:34,959
Speaker 2: just loved it and felt like I don't want to

1277
01:18:35,000 --> 01:18:37,640
Speaker 2: not play guitar and just produce records. I want to

1278
01:18:37,640 --> 01:18:39,800
Speaker 2: play and I like to write song, but I want

1279
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:43,960
Speaker 2: to do this too. So I started doing it, and

1280
01:18:44,040 --> 01:18:48,439
Speaker 2: we're in this story to get married. I get married

1281
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:58,439
Speaker 2: in the place where were before Joan Biaz. There's sort

1282
01:18:58,439 --> 01:19:00,760
Speaker 2: of a friend group, you know, how you come up

1283
01:19:00,800 --> 01:19:03,679
Speaker 2: with your group of friends, and you know, we had

1284
01:19:04,080 --> 01:19:07,320
Speaker 2: there was a lot of these songwriter guys. It was

1285
01:19:07,360 --> 01:19:10,080
Speaker 2: always a sort of left of center folks, you know.

1286
01:19:10,560 --> 01:19:13,960
Speaker 2: And Ashley Cleveland was in that friend group, and everybody

1287
01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:16,760
Speaker 2: loved her. She's an amazing singer, and everybody's talking about, Oh,

1288
01:19:16,800 --> 01:19:22,240
Speaker 2: she's so great. So we're we're in the same friend

1289
01:19:22,320 --> 01:19:25,719
Speaker 2: group and we're all coming up together. And Ashley's writing

1290
01:19:25,760 --> 01:19:28,760
Speaker 2: for Warner Chapel and she's making demos and I get

1291
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:31,960
Speaker 2: to play on her demos, and then she starts playing gigs.

1292
01:19:31,960 --> 01:19:33,559
Speaker 2: And that was another one of the gigs I had

1293
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,559
Speaker 2: was I was locally playing with her. She didn't travel

1294
01:19:36,560 --> 01:19:40,000
Speaker 2: and play gigs. She had a small daughter, but she

1295
01:19:40,040 --> 01:19:45,240
Speaker 2: had a publishing deal on Warner Chapel and she's playing

1296
01:19:45,280 --> 01:19:47,680
Speaker 2: around town and I'm in her band. But we're not

1297
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 2: a couple. We're just friends. And she's seeing other people

1298
01:19:52,720 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 2: and I'm seeing other people. And we had this sort

1299
01:19:55,560 --> 01:19:58,439
Speaker 2: of unique experience where we were you know, you're playing

1300
01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:01,760
Speaker 2: a band with somebody of your friends, give each other

1301
01:20:01,800 --> 01:20:04,240
Speaker 2: a hard time, and I always say, like, you know,

1302
01:20:04,360 --> 01:20:06,680
Speaker 2: what a loser that guy as you were with, you know,

1303
01:20:06,680 --> 01:20:08,559
Speaker 2: And she'd give me a hard time about who I

1304
01:20:08,640 --> 01:20:10,680
Speaker 2: was seeing, and we just we were buds for a

1305
01:20:10,800 --> 01:20:15,440
Speaker 2: long time. And then she got a record deal on Atlantic,

1306
01:20:16,360 --> 01:20:18,720
Speaker 2: and I was fortunate to get to play on her

1307
01:20:18,800 --> 01:20:24,280
Speaker 2: record because I was in her band, and we sort

1308
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:28,040
Speaker 2: of fell for each other while she was making that record,

1309
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:35,439
Speaker 2: and we after our first date, we got engaged two

1310
01:20:35,520 --> 01:20:40,840
Speaker 2: weeks later. So all of our friends we were like, okay,

1311
01:20:40,920 --> 01:20:43,800
Speaker 2: wait a minute, you're like what you know, because they

1312
01:20:43,840 --> 01:20:45,720
Speaker 2: didn't even know that we were together, you know, and

1313
01:20:45,760 --> 01:20:48,160
Speaker 2: we were all really good friends, but I was sneaking

1314
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:51,080
Speaker 2: over to her house at night and nobody knew it,

1315
01:20:51,120 --> 01:20:51,680
Speaker 2: you know, for a.

1316
01:20:51,600 --> 01:20:52,200
Speaker 1: Couple of weeks.

1317
01:20:52,200 --> 01:20:53,760
Speaker 2: And then we were a couple and we said, well,

1318
01:20:53,800 --> 01:20:56,599
Speaker 2: we're getting married, you know, and they're like, this is

1319
01:20:57,479 --> 01:21:01,840
Speaker 2: not a good idea, you know. And thirty five years later,

1320
01:21:02,040 --> 01:21:03,040
Speaker 2: you know, we're still married.

1321
01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:15,760
Speaker 1: Okay, you're married. She has a major labeled deal. How

1322
01:21:15,800 --> 01:21:18,639
Speaker 1: long after? She says she has a young daughter. Now

1323
01:21:18,680 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 1: you have to support a family. Do you feel like responsibility,

1324
01:21:22,560 --> 01:21:25,120
Speaker 1: Like I'm not like a drifter anymore, I got to

1325
01:21:25,160 --> 01:21:26,480
Speaker 1: go out and earn a living.

1326
01:21:28,520 --> 01:21:32,200
Speaker 2: Bob, I don't no. I think I was already kind

1327
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:35,200
Speaker 2: of doing pretty good by that time. I just bought

1328
01:21:35,240 --> 01:21:36,080
Speaker 2: my first house.

1329
01:21:36,840 --> 01:21:38,240
Speaker 1: She must be doing pretty good.

1330
01:21:39,400 --> 01:21:42,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had bought my first house. I was doing okay.

1331
01:21:43,000 --> 01:21:48,800
Speaker 2: And the weird thing about in Nashville, you know, in

1332
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:55,960
Speaker 2: the eighties and early nineties, is you could play gigs

1333
01:21:56,000 --> 01:21:59,000
Speaker 2: five nights a week in clubs and get paid. I

1334
01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:04,000
Speaker 2: supposed now, like it is everywhere, you have to wait

1335
01:22:04,040 --> 01:22:06,800
Speaker 2: six months to get a gig. There's five bands on

1336
01:22:06,840 --> 01:22:10,960
Speaker 2: the bill, no one gets paid. The audience is all

1337
01:22:11,000 --> 01:22:14,320
Speaker 2: the other people waiting to play and their friends. So

1338
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:18,000
Speaker 2: but back then, you know, so I was doing that,

1339
01:22:18,040 --> 01:22:21,240
Speaker 2: and I was starting to get record dates, and I

1340
01:22:21,280 --> 01:22:24,400
Speaker 2: had enough that I bought the small house. So I

1341
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:28,880
Speaker 2: was kind of I never really That's another thing where

1342
01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:31,479
Speaker 2: it just I just sort of rolled with it.

1343
01:22:31,520 --> 01:22:34,120
Speaker 1: I think, So, how many kids do you have at

1344
01:22:34,160 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 1: this point?

1345
01:22:35,640 --> 01:22:39,559
Speaker 2: We have three? So her daughter she had before we

1346
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:45,080
Speaker 2: were together, her name is Becca. I adopted her because

1347
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:47,559
Speaker 2: the dad was never in the picture. And then we

1348
01:22:47,640 --> 01:22:52,720
Speaker 2: had two together. And an interesting thing is the you know,

1349
01:22:53,280 --> 01:22:56,519
Speaker 2: a good year before we were a couple. She did

1350
01:22:56,520 --> 01:22:59,880
Speaker 2: a showcase at a bar for I'm at erdigin to

1351
01:23:00,040 --> 01:23:03,639
Speaker 2: at her deal, and we sound checked in the afternoon

1352
01:23:03,680 --> 01:23:06,479
Speaker 2: and an Ahmet and his entourage were going to come.

1353
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:10,719
Speaker 2: And it was a big deal, I mean a huge

1354
01:23:10,720 --> 01:23:13,759
Speaker 2: deal for Ashley. Was a good like that's like career,

1355
01:23:14,040 --> 01:23:16,679
Speaker 2: you know, a door opening, you know, a major moment

1356
01:23:16,720 --> 01:23:21,479
Speaker 2: in her life. So after we sound checked, I said, hey,

1357
01:23:21,560 --> 01:23:24,760
Speaker 2: I'll take your daughter and we'll go to McDonald's. And

1358
01:23:24,840 --> 01:23:28,680
Speaker 2: so I took her daughter to McDonald's. And then I

1359
01:23:28,720 --> 01:23:32,519
Speaker 2: had just bought the house but hadn't moved in, and

1360
01:23:32,560 --> 01:23:35,200
Speaker 2: it was close by this bar, and so I took

1361
01:23:35,320 --> 01:23:37,639
Speaker 2: the daughter and said, hey, just so we can drive

1362
01:23:37,720 --> 01:23:40,280
Speaker 2: around and you can eat your drink or shake and whatever.

1363
01:23:40,840 --> 01:23:43,760
Speaker 2: Here's this house I'm going to buy. And a year

1364
01:23:43,880 --> 01:23:47,400
Speaker 2: later she's living in that house, which is kind of

1365
01:23:47,400 --> 01:23:50,720
Speaker 2: an amazing, kind of an amazing thing, you know. To me,

1366
01:23:50,760 --> 01:23:51,439
Speaker 2: it was amazing.

1367
01:23:52,160 --> 01:23:53,960
Speaker 1: What are your three kids up to today?

1368
01:23:56,320 --> 01:24:01,879
Speaker 2: That oldest daughter, she had a long run of addiction,

1369
01:24:02,160 --> 01:24:05,760
Speaker 2: as did Ashley, but she's doing really, really great now.

1370
01:24:05,800 --> 01:24:09,440
Speaker 2: She actually works at an addiction center in San Francisco.

1371
01:24:10,479 --> 01:24:14,800
Speaker 2: My son is an actor in Brooklyn. He has his

1372
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:19,240
Speaker 2: Masters in theater and he's getting a few things to doing. Okay.

1373
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:23,439
Speaker 2: And then my youngest is also in New York and

1374
01:24:23,560 --> 01:24:26,600
Speaker 2: runs the grant writing program at Columbia.

1375
01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:30,800
Speaker 1: Wow. Was Ashley addicted when you were with her?

1376
01:24:32,800 --> 01:24:36,360
Speaker 2: No, she had actually recently gotten out of treatment. But

1377
01:24:36,640 --> 01:24:41,080
Speaker 2: after we got together, and you know, if you're in

1378
01:24:41,200 --> 01:24:45,240
Speaker 2: AA and NA, it's never about what the other person does,

1379
01:24:45,400 --> 01:24:48,200
Speaker 2: it's about what it's really about.

1380
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:48,680
Speaker 1: You know.

1381
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:52,600
Speaker 2: It's like, for instance, we have people over, we'll have

1382
01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:55,719
Speaker 2: some wine and serve wine. We won't drink wine, but well,

1383
01:24:55,760 --> 01:24:57,920
Speaker 2: you know, that's just what. So we would go out

1384
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:00,559
Speaker 2: and I would occasionally have a glass wine. I never

1385
01:25:00,600 --> 01:25:03,120
Speaker 2: really drank much. And actually we always say, you have

1386
01:25:03,160 --> 01:25:05,760
Speaker 2: yourself a glass of wine. I'm in AA, but it's

1387
01:25:05,800 --> 01:25:10,479
Speaker 2: totally okay, And so I did that. But it ended

1388
01:25:10,560 --> 01:25:14,800
Speaker 2: up that, like right after we got married, she was like, oh,

1389
01:25:14,800 --> 01:25:16,360
Speaker 2: I guess it's okay if I have a glass of

1390
01:25:16,360 --> 01:25:21,759
Speaker 2: wine too, And it very quickly went down the tubes

1391
01:25:21,800 --> 01:25:26,080
Speaker 2: from there and and but she pulled out and she's

1392
01:25:26,120 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 2: been sober for almost thirty years. Yeah, she's doing great.

1393
01:25:32,000 --> 01:25:36,360
Speaker 1: Okay. So you've been talking about this studio that you

1394
01:25:36,479 --> 01:25:39,760
Speaker 1: have when did you build this studio and to what

1395
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,200
Speaker 1: the level is it built out? And what do you

1396
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:42,599
Speaker 1: do there?

1397
01:25:44,680 --> 01:25:47,400
Speaker 2: I got this. We bought this house at the end

1398
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:50,960
Speaker 2: of nineteen ninety six, and we bought it half built.

1399
01:25:51,880 --> 01:25:55,479
Speaker 2: And it's one of those houses that's on a hill.

1400
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:58,360
Speaker 2: So from the front it's two stories and from the

1401
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:01,920
Speaker 2: back it's three. So the lower level, which is the

1402
01:26:01,960 --> 01:26:05,080
Speaker 2: same size as the main level of the house, I

1403
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:08,400
Speaker 2: made into a studio like a I slowly built it

1404
01:26:08,439 --> 01:26:10,400
Speaker 2: like a couple of years after we moved in here,

1405
01:26:10,720 --> 01:26:13,479
Speaker 2: and it has a drum room and a vocal room.

1406
01:26:13,760 --> 01:26:16,760
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a full on studio. And so we

1407
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:22,040
Speaker 2: made after Ashley's first record, we made her records here

1408
01:26:23,800 --> 01:26:26,800
Speaker 2: a lot. I do a lot of overdubs here. All

1409
01:26:26,800 --> 01:26:28,560
Speaker 2: of the film and TV stuff I do, I do

1410
01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:29,880
Speaker 2: top to bottom here.

1411
01:26:30,400 --> 01:26:31,080
Speaker 1: We did the.

1412
01:26:31,080 --> 01:26:37,120
Speaker 2: Chesney Bands record here. I just produced a song on

1413
01:26:37,280 --> 01:26:42,120
Speaker 2: a really interesting guy that comes out Monday, and we

1414
01:26:42,160 --> 01:26:46,080
Speaker 2: cut the whole track here. And so I'll work here.

1415
01:26:46,880 --> 01:26:50,880
Speaker 2: I'll always do my overdubs here, like I'll do the vocals,

1416
01:26:51,040 --> 01:26:52,840
Speaker 2: and if I need to prepare the drums, I got

1417
01:26:52,880 --> 01:26:55,760
Speaker 2: a great, great drum room. We'll redo the drums but

1418
01:26:55,800 --> 01:26:57,880
Speaker 2: if I have the budget, I like to go to

1419
01:26:58,000 --> 01:27:00,800
Speaker 2: the Sound and Porium or Ocean Way and cut my

1420
01:27:00,880 --> 01:27:04,320
Speaker 2: basic tracks and then bring it back over here. But

1421
01:27:04,439 --> 01:27:09,120
Speaker 2: I'm you know, Bob, the budgets, they're smaller, and especially

1422
01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:12,599
Speaker 2: for the stuff I do, a lot of times I'll

1423
01:27:12,640 --> 01:27:16,360
Speaker 2: just make the whole thing over here because it's affordable

1424
01:27:16,800 --> 01:27:18,680
Speaker 2: and I can still get paid if I do it

1425
01:27:18,720 --> 01:27:19,240
Speaker 2: over here.

1426
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:21,559
Speaker 1: And what kind of equipment do you have in the room.

1427
01:27:22,200 --> 01:27:26,120
Speaker 2: I have pro tools, which is how I'm recording this now.

1428
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:29,400
Speaker 2: And I have really really good mic pres I have

1429
01:27:29,479 --> 01:27:31,840
Speaker 2: some vintage mics, I have some newer mics. I've got

1430
01:27:31,920 --> 01:27:34,760
Speaker 2: vintage amps. I've got a piano in the other room.

1431
01:27:35,760 --> 01:27:37,519
Speaker 2: I've got some I got some pretty decent gear.

1432
01:27:39,400 --> 01:27:44,320
Speaker 1: Okay, what was it like when Ashley lost her major

1433
01:27:44,400 --> 01:27:49,839
Speaker 1: label deal? Uh?

1434
01:27:50,520 --> 01:27:57,559
Speaker 2: I think for her, her entire recording career was always hard.

1435
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:02,559
Speaker 2: It never really worked out. I remember she had her

1436
01:28:03,760 --> 01:28:07,519
Speaker 2: she had her first record, and she lost that deal.

1437
01:28:08,160 --> 01:28:12,400
Speaker 2: Then she got signed to this label called Reunion, which

1438
01:28:12,439 --> 01:28:15,800
Speaker 2: was a Christian label and was part of Arista. So

1439
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:18,840
Speaker 2: the idea was, Okay, we know she's a Christian artist

1440
01:28:18,920 --> 01:28:21,439
Speaker 2: and her songs are spiritual.

1441
01:28:21,320 --> 01:28:24,000
Speaker 1: At least will do a cod.

1442
01:28:23,880 --> 01:28:31,120
Speaker 2: Deal with Arista, and so that record, that one was

1443
01:28:31,200 --> 01:28:34,200
Speaker 2: nominated for a Grammy, and we went to the Grammys

1444
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:40,479
Speaker 2: and Clive was there, and Clive came up to us

1445
01:28:40,479 --> 01:28:43,479
Speaker 2: and said, man, I love your voice, but you have

1446
01:28:43,520 --> 01:28:49,840
Speaker 2: to sing about God, and as she was going, well, yes,

1447
01:28:49,840 --> 01:28:53,439
Speaker 2: actually I do. You know. So it's always been this

1448
01:28:53,640 --> 01:28:57,880
Speaker 2: thing where it was always a struggle. It was it

1449
01:28:58,080 --> 01:29:04,360
Speaker 2: never nothing really ever worked out. I would probably say

1450
01:29:05,000 --> 01:29:06,599
Speaker 2: I think she'd be okay with me saying that.

1451
01:29:07,200 --> 01:29:09,759
Speaker 1: And what's the status of her music like today?

1452
01:29:11,200 --> 01:29:15,600
Speaker 2: Well, you know, through the different record labels in the

1453
01:29:15,720 --> 01:29:18,599
Speaker 2: making records, she got three Grammys and so she had

1454
01:29:18,600 --> 01:29:22,560
Speaker 2: a lot of critical acclaim and which is very satisfying

1455
01:29:22,720 --> 01:29:25,920
Speaker 2: and made her feel like the work she was doing

1456
01:29:26,040 --> 01:29:28,360
Speaker 2: was worthwhile. I love some of the records we made.

1457
01:29:28,720 --> 01:29:32,880
Speaker 2: I'm very proud of the work we did. About fifteen

1458
01:29:33,040 --> 01:29:39,439
Speaker 2: years ago, her voice started to change and singing became

1459
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:44,880
Speaker 2: not as much fun, and so she sort of stopped

1460
01:29:44,880 --> 01:29:51,160
Speaker 2: doing it. But at the same time, she wrote a

1461
01:29:51,240 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 2: book called Little Black Sheep, and it wasn't like a

1462
01:29:54,439 --> 01:29:59,439
Speaker 2: big hit, but it got some notice and did well,

1463
01:29:59,479 --> 01:30:03,000
Speaker 2: and she wrote a second book and she started to

1464
01:30:03,160 --> 01:30:08,800
Speaker 2: lead retreats. She would do recovery retreats, women's retreats, religious retreats,

1465
01:30:10,280 --> 01:30:13,120
Speaker 2: and she also works at a church now and is

1466
01:30:13,160 --> 01:30:14,320
Speaker 2: a spiritual counselor.

1467
01:30:15,080 --> 01:30:16,120
Speaker 1: So her.

1468
01:30:17,840 --> 01:30:27,479
Speaker 3: I without a doubt her second career has been more

1469
01:30:27,520 --> 01:30:30,040
Speaker 3: successful and more satisfying than her first.

1470
01:30:30,560 --> 01:30:31,920
Speaker 2: She's really in a great space.

1471
01:30:32,840 --> 01:30:37,200
Speaker 1: Okay, you moved to Nashville in the seventies. What's it

1472
01:30:37,360 --> 01:30:40,280
Speaker 1: like being a Jew in Nashville then? And what's it

1473
01:30:40,360 --> 01:30:42,120
Speaker 1: like being a Jew in Nashville today.

1474
01:30:45,720 --> 01:30:54,439
Speaker 2: I think back then it was like it made me

1475
01:30:54,479 --> 01:30:59,200
Speaker 2: feel like an outsider. I never really got much discrimination.

1476
01:31:00,000 --> 01:31:03,400
Speaker 2: I mean occasionally somebody would say something in the good

1477
01:31:03,400 --> 01:31:07,800
Speaker 2: old boy world, you know, but I think with musicians

1478
01:31:08,000 --> 01:31:11,080
Speaker 2: were musicians and we're all in it, you know, it's

1479
01:31:11,120 --> 01:31:14,599
Speaker 2: a brotherhood and that like there was this keyboard player

1480
01:31:14,600 --> 01:31:17,920
Speaker 2: from Muscle Sholes. It was actually originally from New York,

1481
01:31:17,960 --> 01:31:20,639
Speaker 2: but he made his name and Muscle shows named Steve

1482
01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:24,559
Speaker 2: Nathan who who was Jewish, and he came up and

1483
01:31:24,680 --> 01:31:27,200
Speaker 2: was playing and there were a few of us and

1484
01:31:27,280 --> 01:31:30,760
Speaker 2: it's like if you played good, and I don't think

1485
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:35,840
Speaker 2: anybody really cared, honestly, And now it's just it's wide open.

1486
01:31:35,920 --> 01:31:41,080
Speaker 1: Now, Yeah, you've been in Nashville nearly fifty years. How

1487
01:31:41,200 --> 01:31:43,639
Speaker 1: is Nashville The town changed.

1488
01:31:45,720 --> 01:31:53,640
Speaker 2: It's night and day. It's so completely incredibly different, and

1489
01:31:53,680 --> 01:31:56,040
Speaker 2: there's some good things and there's some not good things.

1490
01:31:56,520 --> 01:32:04,240
Speaker 2: The it was this kind of small, sleepy town that

1491
01:32:04,360 --> 01:32:10,479
Speaker 2: had some artists, little corners of artistry, and there was

1492
01:32:10,520 --> 01:32:13,960
Speaker 2: the publishing business and all the country songwriters and the

1493
01:32:14,080 --> 01:32:18,559
Speaker 2: record making and but it was a sleepy little town.

1494
01:32:19,120 --> 01:32:23,439
Speaker 2: And now it's like the number one tourist destination. They're

1495
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:27,559
Speaker 2: they're blowing up buildings, property has gone through the roof,

1496
01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:35,920
Speaker 2: they've overbuilt. It's kind of a mess. So there's great

1497
01:32:35,920 --> 01:32:38,680
Speaker 2: stuff about it. There's a lot of energy here and

1498
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:41,120
Speaker 2: you know, I you know, and I read in your

1499
01:32:41,840 --> 01:32:45,120
Speaker 2: emails you talk about, you know, the country music is

1500
01:32:45,200 --> 01:32:48,559
Speaker 2: kind of the thing, and so there's a lot of

1501
01:32:48,680 --> 01:32:50,640
Speaker 2: energy in that. And there's a lot of people that

1502
01:32:50,760 --> 01:32:53,599
Speaker 2: come here and there's a lot of great people doing

1503
01:32:53,640 --> 01:32:59,800
Speaker 2: great stuff. But it's it's it's a little bit like

1504
01:33:01,200 --> 01:33:03,800
Speaker 2: how can I say, It's like we've gotten a little

1505
01:33:03,800 --> 01:33:07,000
Speaker 2: bit too big for the size we are. It's a

1506
01:33:07,040 --> 01:33:08,040
Speaker 2: little out of control.

1507
01:33:09,600 --> 01:33:13,200
Speaker 1: And tell me how the music business has changed in

1508
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:14,360
Speaker 1: this interim.

1509
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:22,480
Speaker 2: Uh, I think in Nashville, as opposed to some other places,

1510
01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:28,559
Speaker 2: it's fairly healthy. I think the record companies don't know

1511
01:33:28,640 --> 01:33:37,479
Speaker 2: what to do the I think that it's kind of

1512
01:33:37,560 --> 01:33:40,120
Speaker 2: a mess, and that they don't know how to sell

1513
01:33:40,160 --> 01:33:45,439
Speaker 2: records and artists don't know how to get across. I

1514
01:33:45,439 --> 01:33:50,920
Speaker 2: almost feel like that the quote unquote country music industry

1515
01:33:51,760 --> 01:33:58,320
Speaker 2: is probably more messed up than the Americana indie industry,

1516
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:05,000
Speaker 2: which is also here, is huge, right, They're thriving and

1517
01:34:05,000 --> 01:34:08,040
Speaker 2: and you know, there's some country records that are doing

1518
01:34:08,160 --> 01:34:12,840
Speaker 2: really good, you know, and but it's kind of a mess.

1519
01:34:13,120 --> 01:34:17,840
Speaker 2: And from the musicians standpoint, we get paid less for

1520
01:34:17,960 --> 01:34:24,880
Speaker 2: doing more work. So yeah, it's I mean, it's that's

1521
01:34:24,880 --> 01:34:28,080
Speaker 2: sort of a fractured answer, but it's kind of a

1522
01:34:28,120 --> 01:34:29,000
Speaker 2: fractured place.

1523
01:34:30,120 --> 01:34:34,000
Speaker 1: And what about the old saw of you know, writing

1524
01:34:34,120 --> 01:34:37,559
Speaker 1: gigs and music grow, et cetera. What's the status of

1525
01:34:37,560 --> 01:34:38,120
Speaker 1: that today?

1526
01:34:39,080 --> 01:34:42,920
Speaker 2: The writing thing is, you don't it's hard to get

1527
01:34:42,960 --> 01:34:45,040
Speaker 2: a publishing deal and get paid to write. Where it

1528
01:34:45,160 --> 01:34:47,200
Speaker 2: used to be, you'd get a publishing deal, you'd get

1529
01:34:47,320 --> 01:34:50,000
Speaker 2: fifty grand a year, and you'd write songs and they'd

1530
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:52,680
Speaker 2: pay for your demos. And you'd have a band, and

1531
01:34:52,720 --> 01:34:55,800
Speaker 2: there was a whole industry of the younger players.

1532
01:34:55,439 --> 01:34:56,040
Speaker 1: That come up.

1533
01:34:56,320 --> 01:35:00,080
Speaker 2: You play on Sony demos and Warner Chapel demos and

1534
01:35:00,080 --> 01:35:04,400
Speaker 2: and uh, that's what you did. That is completely gone.

1535
01:35:04,760 --> 01:35:08,600
Speaker 2: And it's completely gone because they don't pay the songwriters

1536
01:35:08,880 --> 01:35:11,160
Speaker 2: for the most part, and they have to make their

1537
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:14,680
Speaker 2: own demos because there's no budget to take a band

1538
01:35:14,800 --> 01:35:17,880
Speaker 2: into the studio, so you have to use pro tools

1539
01:35:17,960 --> 01:35:21,080
Speaker 2: and ableton and logic and make your own demos. And

1540
01:35:21,120 --> 01:35:24,800
Speaker 2: then in the last year there's this thing which really

1541
01:35:24,840 --> 01:35:27,360
Speaker 2: we could have a whole separate discussion on called Suno

1542
01:35:28,000 --> 01:35:30,160
Speaker 2: s U n O. Have you heard of that? Yeah,

1543
01:35:30,880 --> 01:35:36,320
Speaker 2: yeah you can. What songwriters do is you take you

1544
01:35:37,160 --> 01:35:41,439
Speaker 2: even on your iPhone, you sing the song and play

1545
01:35:41,439 --> 01:35:45,559
Speaker 2: your guitar and input into so into Suno, and in

1546
01:35:45,600 --> 01:35:49,559
Speaker 2: thirty seconds it spits out a full blown demo and

1547
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:55,639
Speaker 2: they're not bad. They're just not bad. So I've played

1548
01:35:55,640 --> 01:36:01,640
Speaker 2: on a number of things recently where you hear the

1549
01:36:01,680 --> 01:36:04,240
Speaker 2: song writer's demo and go, oh, it's a Sono demo,

1550
01:36:04,360 --> 01:36:10,360
Speaker 2: you know right away. And the one particular experience I

1551
01:36:10,400 --> 01:36:13,760
Speaker 2: had was for Chesney, had somebody pitched him a song

1552
01:36:13,800 --> 01:36:16,600
Speaker 2: that he really liked. It's like weeks ago, we go

1553
01:36:16,680 --> 01:36:19,000
Speaker 2: into the studio and he plays us a song and go,

1554
01:36:19,400 --> 01:36:23,920
Speaker 2: oh shit, it's a sono demo. And the problem with

1555
01:36:24,040 --> 01:36:27,840
Speaker 2: it for us as the players is that a lot

1556
01:36:27,880 --> 01:36:30,120
Speaker 2: of times it'll play, it'll come up with a thing

1557
01:36:30,160 --> 01:36:32,680
Speaker 2: that's sort of a steal guitar but not really and

1558
01:36:32,720 --> 01:36:35,880
Speaker 2: it's a guitar and it's this synthesis of the two.

1559
01:36:36,080 --> 01:36:39,599
Speaker 2: So Chesney goes, I love that part.

1560
01:36:40,080 --> 01:36:40,920
Speaker 1: Let's get that.

1561
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:44,360
Speaker 2: Guy in there. They call the songwriter and the songwriter goes,

1562
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:48,000
Speaker 2: it's I have to full disclosure. It's a sono demo,

1563
01:36:48,400 --> 01:36:52,280
Speaker 2: and so Jessney says, can you play that part? And

1564
01:36:52,320 --> 01:36:55,599
Speaker 2: I go, you know, sort of it's gonna sound different

1565
01:36:55,640 --> 01:36:59,360
Speaker 2: because that's not that's like two different instruments that have

1566
01:36:59,439 --> 01:37:02,559
Speaker 2: become one instrument. I fucking don't know what it is,

1567
01:37:02,600 --> 01:37:06,479
Speaker 2: you know, So you come up with something that's kind

1568
01:37:06,479 --> 01:37:09,800
Speaker 2: of similar to that, but it's not exactly that. And

1569
01:37:10,439 --> 01:37:15,120
Speaker 2: but now Suno you can take individual tracks, so if

1570
01:37:15,200 --> 01:37:17,720
Speaker 2: he wanted to, I mean, there's there's copyright issues and

1571
01:37:17,760 --> 01:37:19,280
Speaker 2: I don't know how all that. They're in the middle

1572
01:37:19,280 --> 01:37:21,360
Speaker 2: of trying to get that worked out. But it's like

1573
01:37:22,040 --> 01:37:25,760
Speaker 2: he could take that part and put it into his

1574
01:37:25,880 --> 01:37:29,240
Speaker 2: recording if he wanted to, you know, but we didn't.

1575
01:37:29,280 --> 01:37:34,680
Speaker 2: He chose not to do that. But yes, Suno has changed.

1576
01:37:35,000 --> 01:37:41,080
Speaker 2: It's dramatically changing things. But I ascribed to the thing

1577
01:37:41,400 --> 01:37:47,880
Speaker 2: of that that it's just change, and it's it's like

1578
01:37:47,880 --> 01:37:51,479
Speaker 2: what a drum machine did, or it's what a synthesizer did,

1579
01:37:51,840 --> 01:37:54,240
Speaker 2: or the first time they had a sequencer, and you'd

1580
01:37:54,240 --> 01:37:57,200
Speaker 2: have all these cheesy demos that they used a sequencer.

1581
01:37:57,600 --> 01:38:00,840
Speaker 2: It's like, and occasionally you'd have a song that would

1582
01:38:00,960 --> 01:38:04,639
Speaker 2: have a sequencer part in it. It's you still have

1583
01:38:04,720 --> 01:38:08,200
Speaker 2: to come up with a great lyric and a great

1584
01:38:08,280 --> 01:38:12,479
Speaker 2: melody and the stuff. I've seen writers try to input

1585
01:38:12,600 --> 01:38:16,760
Speaker 2: just a word and say, make a great song of that.

1586
01:38:17,360 --> 01:38:20,680
Speaker 2: It can make sort of a generic song from it,

1587
01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:24,439
Speaker 2: but something that's deep and has soul and really says

1588
01:38:24,479 --> 01:38:27,240
Speaker 2: something special. I don't think it's there right now. I

1589
01:38:27,240 --> 01:38:30,000
Speaker 2: don't think it's going to do that. So it's the tools.

1590
01:38:30,120 --> 01:38:30,840
Speaker 2: It's just a tool.

1591
01:38:32,320 --> 01:38:36,720
Speaker 1: Okay, you got this work with Testney coming up the

1592
01:38:36,800 --> 01:38:41,200
Speaker 1: sphere and other dates, anything else in the schedule going forward.

1593
01:38:43,439 --> 01:38:49,759
Speaker 2: Uh, I just cut a song that I'm excited about

1594
01:38:49,800 --> 01:38:56,920
Speaker 2: on a singer songwriters, a very young guy from Kentucky

1595
01:38:57,240 --> 01:39:00,920
Speaker 2: and he is from a rural Kentucky like way back

1596
01:39:00,960 --> 01:39:04,680
Speaker 2: in the woods. But he's like a really good lyricist,

1597
01:39:04,800 --> 01:39:09,200
Speaker 2: kind of like a towns van Zandt type guy. So

1598
01:39:09,280 --> 01:39:11,760
Speaker 2: he has a song coming out on MLK Day. Is

1599
01:39:11,800 --> 01:39:13,040
Speaker 2: that is that Monday?

1600
01:39:13,360 --> 01:39:13,880
Speaker 1: Yeah?

1601
01:39:13,920 --> 01:39:19,240
Speaker 2: And it's called American War, And it's from the perspective

1602
01:39:20,320 --> 01:39:23,800
Speaker 2: of the guy that lives out in the country that

1603
01:39:23,880 --> 01:39:27,320
Speaker 2: doesn't have any money, and it really doesn't take sides.

1604
01:39:27,720 --> 01:39:30,960
Speaker 2: It says, you know, you know, red or blue, you

1605
01:39:30,960 --> 01:39:33,120
Speaker 2: know you're both at fault, you know, and we suffer,

1606
01:39:33,479 --> 01:39:36,960
Speaker 2: you know, where it war with both of you, both sides,

1607
01:39:37,160 --> 01:39:40,360
Speaker 2: and it's it's it's a good song. And he came

1608
01:39:40,360 --> 01:39:43,799
Speaker 2: over to my studio and played me his other songs.

1609
01:39:44,560 --> 01:39:49,120
Speaker 2: They are really good. So he's not signed yet. He

1610
01:39:49,200 --> 01:39:52,080
Speaker 2: got a publishing deal. But the way I found out

1611
01:39:52,160 --> 01:39:57,599
Speaker 2: about him is Universal is interested in him. So he's

1612
01:39:57,600 --> 01:40:01,160
Speaker 2: going to put the song out on Monday, and I'm

1613
01:40:01,240 --> 01:40:06,240
Speaker 2: hoping that he gets some traction and I can have

1614
01:40:06,280 --> 01:40:08,920
Speaker 2: a budget and I can make more songs with him.

1615
01:40:09,160 --> 01:40:12,240
Speaker 2: As I thought he was really really good and the

1616
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:14,599
Speaker 2: Chesney band is in the middle of making another record,

1617
01:40:15,240 --> 01:40:22,160
Speaker 2: so I'm doing that and though and then just some

1618
01:40:22,200 --> 01:40:26,040
Speaker 2: regular sessions, like next week, I have a blues record

1619
01:40:26,080 --> 01:40:29,400
Speaker 2: that I'm playing on that I'm excited to go do.

1620
01:40:30,840 --> 01:40:31,080
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1621
01:40:31,240 --> 01:40:33,960
Speaker 2: So just that's that's kind of a good cross section.

1622
01:40:34,080 --> 01:40:37,479
Speaker 1: And you mentioned TV and film work. What's the status

1623
01:40:37,479 --> 01:40:37,680
Speaker 1: of that.

1624
01:40:38,680 --> 01:40:42,639
Speaker 2: I write for a company called Big Yellow Dog, and

1625
01:40:42,720 --> 01:40:44,639
Speaker 2: they have a number They have a film and TV

1626
01:40:44,800 --> 01:40:49,280
Speaker 2: department and they call it sink like writing for sinc.

1627
01:40:50,000 --> 01:40:52,599
Speaker 2: And I do that a lot. And in the past

1628
01:40:52,680 --> 01:40:55,400
Speaker 2: year I've gotten a number of things placed and I

1629
01:40:55,479 --> 01:40:59,760
Speaker 2: really really enjoy that a lot. And I like to

1630
01:40:59,760 --> 01:41:03,040
Speaker 2: write words, but I don't write lyrics in the sense

1631
01:41:03,040 --> 01:41:06,519
Speaker 2: of a country lyric is. I'm really not a country guy,

1632
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:10,719
Speaker 2: you know. And so the music I write is more

1633
01:41:13,160 --> 01:41:16,519
Speaker 2: outside the box, for lack of a better word, And

1634
01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:20,040
Speaker 2: I like that. They send me a brief from like

1635
01:41:20,120 --> 01:41:23,960
Speaker 2: we're looking for songs for land Man, and here's how

1636
01:41:24,000 --> 01:41:26,519
Speaker 2: they should be. So I get with the writer and

1637
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:29,400
Speaker 2: we try to write something and we record it over here,

1638
01:41:29,880 --> 01:41:33,479
Speaker 2: sing it over here. And so I'm doing a lot

1639
01:41:33,479 --> 01:41:38,400
Speaker 2: of that and it's for me. It's something I really

1640
01:41:38,400 --> 01:41:41,280
Speaker 2: want to pursue in this next chapter of my life

1641
01:41:41,760 --> 01:41:45,280
Speaker 2: because I really really enjoy it, and having gotten a

1642
01:41:45,320 --> 01:41:48,120
Speaker 2: couple of things, it makes me feel like, Okay, I

1643
01:41:48,160 --> 01:41:48,680
Speaker 2: can do this.

1644
01:41:50,160 --> 01:41:52,320
Speaker 1: Okay. Do you only get paid when it gets synced?

1645
01:41:52,960 --> 01:41:56,600
Speaker 2: Or you only get paid when it gets synced? You

1646
01:41:56,680 --> 01:42:02,639
Speaker 2: don't get anything before? That's the And luckily I can

1647
01:42:02,680 --> 01:42:06,920
Speaker 2: play sessions and play gigs and can support myself and

1648
01:42:07,000 --> 01:42:07,679
Speaker 2: I can do this.

1649
01:42:08,479 --> 01:42:11,000
Speaker 1: And how about do you play any gigs in town

1650
01:42:11,120 --> 01:42:13,240
Speaker 1: or only on the road? Yep?

1651
01:42:13,360 --> 01:42:18,960
Speaker 2: I'm playing with Pat McLoughlin this Friday, and he has

1652
01:42:19,000 --> 01:42:23,479
Speaker 2: a new record out called what is the name of

1653
01:42:23,600 --> 01:42:27,599
Speaker 2: the record. It's called Nashville after Dark. I don't love

1654
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:31,160
Speaker 2: that title, that's what it's called. But it's him playing

1655
01:42:31,240 --> 01:42:34,320
Speaker 2: live in a club and he didn't know, we didn't

1656
01:42:34,360 --> 01:42:37,439
Speaker 2: know that we were being recorded. It's just a board

1657
01:42:37,840 --> 01:42:41,479
Speaker 2: two mix, so it's very raw. But man, Pat is

1658
01:42:41,880 --> 01:42:47,320
Speaker 2: the best, He's just the greatest. In playing with him,

1659
01:42:47,880 --> 01:42:50,759
Speaker 2: the musicians, when we get done playing a gig with Pat,

1660
01:42:51,600 --> 01:42:56,080
Speaker 2: we always say, after the gig, we stand around backstage

1661
01:42:56,120 --> 01:42:58,400
Speaker 2: and go, that was the greatest gig I've ever played.

1662
01:43:00,240 --> 01:43:02,400
Speaker 2: And I'm not making this up and I'm not exaggerating.

1663
01:43:02,600 --> 01:43:08,480
Speaker 2: Pat McLoughlin is the hidden secret of He is the greatest.

1664
01:43:08,760 --> 01:43:12,559
Speaker 2: Playing with him is like, I can't tell you what

1665
01:43:12,840 --> 01:43:15,559
Speaker 2: that does for my soul and for the other guys

1666
01:43:15,560 --> 01:43:16,360
Speaker 2: to play with him.

1667
01:43:16,760 --> 01:43:16,880
Speaker 1: You know.

1668
01:43:16,960 --> 01:43:20,599
Speaker 2: As a writer, he's been really successful and he writes

1669
01:43:20,840 --> 01:43:23,080
Speaker 2: like a lot of those little more recent John Prime

1670
01:43:23,240 --> 01:43:27,880
Speaker 2: songs of John Prime and the Dan auerback stuff, all

1671
01:43:27,880 --> 01:43:30,560
Speaker 2: those records of Dan makes and Pat, you know, and

1672
01:43:30,640 --> 01:43:34,479
Speaker 2: they're writing songs on all of them. So I have that.

1673
01:43:35,040 --> 01:43:40,479
Speaker 2: And then on Sunday there's a guy from Manchester, England,

1674
01:43:41,640 --> 01:43:44,880
Speaker 2: I'm named Johnny Lucas who has a band and plays

1675
01:43:44,920 --> 01:43:47,040
Speaker 2: gigs and I wrote a song with him, so I'm

1676
01:43:47,040 --> 01:43:49,479
Speaker 2: gonna go up and play with his band. I'll just

1677
01:43:49,479 --> 01:43:53,479
Speaker 2: play a few songs with his band on Sunday. So yeah,

1678
01:43:53,520 --> 01:43:56,000
Speaker 2: I love playing clubs.

1679
01:43:56,240 --> 01:44:01,719
Speaker 1: Okay, we've been talking to Kenny Greenberg, guitarist, producer, works

1680
01:44:01,760 --> 01:44:05,439
Speaker 1: with Chesney. Heard the story of how he made it. Kenny,

1681
01:44:05,479 --> 01:44:07,559
Speaker 1: I want to thank you for taking all this time

1682
01:44:07,600 --> 01:44:10,240
Speaker 1: with my audience. Man, thank you.

1683
01:44:11,160 --> 01:44:14,400
Speaker 2: I read all your emails. I love it. You know,

1684
01:44:14,479 --> 01:44:16,479
Speaker 2: we're on the same page on a lot of stuff.

1685
01:44:16,520 --> 01:44:19,120
Speaker 2: So it was honored to be here.

1686
01:44:19,640 --> 01:44:23,360
Speaker 1: Great to hear the stories until next time. This is

1687
01:44:23,479 --> 01:44:24,480
Speaker 1: Bob Lefstad's