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Speaker 1: You're listening to Math and Magic, a production of I

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Speaker 1: Heart Radio. I'm Bob Tipman. Welcome back to Math and Magic.

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Speaker 1: Stories from the frontiers and marketing. In today's bonus episode,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna look back at just a few of the

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Speaker 1: stories that have struck me about the power of audio

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Speaker 1: podcasts on fire now reaching more people today than even

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Speaker 1: the biggest streaming music services, and at the heart of

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Speaker 1: podcasts or stories. On the Math and Magic episode with

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Speaker 1: my old friend Walter Isaacson, we got into some discussions

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Speaker 1: about storytelling and podcasting. Give a listen. Welcome personally the

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Speaker 1: guy I told you about the novelists too, a sort

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Speaker 1: of mentor. I never quite knew what he did. We

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Speaker 1: would go over across like Conto Train to the buga

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Speaker 1: Fly where he and his daughter who is my age

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Speaker 1: all lived, and we'd go hunting or water skiing or

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Speaker 1: searching for total us. We always just say, Anne, what

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Speaker 1: does your daddy do? He's always on the doc drinking bourbon,

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Speaker 1: eating hogside cheese. She would say, well, he's a writer.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't figure out what to that man. I knew

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Speaker 1: you could be an engineer like my dad, or a

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Speaker 1: doctor or a Fisherman, but writer. When I guess I

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Speaker 1: was about twelve, I read the movie Goer It just

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Speaker 1: come out. I realized what that meant. So I asked

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Speaker 1: Uncle Walker walco person, tell me, because you're trying to

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Speaker 1: teach lessons, you're preaching some things in this book. Tell

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Speaker 1: me what it's about. And he said that two types

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Speaker 1: of people come out of Louisiana. Preachers and storytellers. He said,

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Speaker 1: if I haven't said, be a storytelling, the world's got

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Speaker 1: far too many preachers. And so why do you think

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Speaker 1: the South has so many storytellers versus other parts of

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Speaker 1: the country. Maybe it's the Bourbon, Maybe it's the fact

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Speaker 1: that we lost into the loss of Civil War. Maybe

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Speaker 1: people sit on porches a lot. Alex Haley, who wrote Roots,

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Speaker 1: somebody once asked him said he was trying to give

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Speaker 1: a speech or something and he was scared. You didn't

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Speaker 1: know how to begin, And Haley said, here's the six

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Speaker 1: words you have to know. Let me tell your story. Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's funny. When I was growing up, I

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Speaker 1: had uncles who would tell stories, and if you ask

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Speaker 1: them a question, you get a long story. And the

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Speaker 1: moral of the story was the answer to your question,

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Speaker 1: do you think in this new digitally connected world that

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Speaker 1: goes on or is this storytelling a lost art? Now,

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Speaker 1: this is why podcast is so important, why there's such

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Speaker 1: a popular medium, and why they are a crucial medium

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Speaker 1: for us to have now because of the past twenty

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Speaker 1: five thirty years in the digital age, we've lost the

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Speaker 1: art of narrative. Paper is a good technology for narrative.

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Speaker 1: You go page, have to page, you can't hop around. Likewise,

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Speaker 1: linear television, linear movies, they're great for narrative. But digital

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Speaker 1: media tends to be great for hopping around, making links,

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Speaker 1: jumping to gather more information, following and charting your own course.

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Speaker 1: It's interactive, which means you're not consuming a narrative. Now,

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Speaker 1: that's fine. I love interactive media. I love being able

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Speaker 1: to hunt and peck and figure out you know who

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Speaker 1: the Saints are going to be playing, and hear all

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Speaker 1: the opinions about it. But every now and then we

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Speaker 1: need to get back to narrative and destroytelling. I think

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Speaker 1: it started from me listening to this American Life was

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Speaker 1: doing a podcast a long time ago, and I said, wow,

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Speaker 1: they're gonna save the art of storytelling. Well, you know

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Speaker 1: what's interesting, young people, teenagers, young adults are flocking to it,

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Speaker 1: whereas people thought, oh, talk shows, that's for old people,

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Speaker 1: And I think it's just turned everybody's understanding upside down.

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Speaker 1: It has sort of the best of both worlds, meaning

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Speaker 1: you get it on demand, you don't have to tune

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Speaker 1: in at nine pm. On the other hand, it's a narrative.

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Speaker 1: You have to go with the flow. Here at I Heart,

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Speaker 1: we're doing a lot with audio stories. It starts with

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Speaker 1: the biggest radio stations we have across the country and

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Speaker 1: extends to podcast pushing the medium and the boundaries of

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Speaker 1: storytelling what things like Ron Burgundy and show is like

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Speaker 1: dis Graceland and Noble Blood and you're listening to this

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Speaker 1: as a podcast along those same lines. One of the

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Speaker 1: most inspiring conversations I've had on this program was my

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Speaker 1: friend Steve Stout, the CEO of Translation, and how he

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Speaker 1: decided to use radio in a novel way. When Interscope launched,

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Speaker 1: they wouldn't play dr Drames Dugan radio, they would not

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Speaker 1: play So what Jimmy did was Steve Berman. They went

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Speaker 1: and bought the last commercial spot in a pod and

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Speaker 1: did not say anything but played sixty seconds of the

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Speaker 1: song nothing but a g Thing Baby. People thought that

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Speaker 1: was the song. They didn't know it was a commercial,

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Speaker 1: and that's how the song took off. I went to

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Speaker 1: Bill Wrigley Jr. And pitched him an idea. We were

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Speaker 1: gonna remake the double Mint jingle. I made the song

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Speaker 1: call Forever Chris Brown Forever. We rewrote the Doublement jingle

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Speaker 1: using that same Forever melody, and he says, W pleasure,

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Speaker 1: W fund in the sun. And then I did the

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Speaker 1: exact same thing. I brought sixty seconds let it play

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Speaker 1: like it was forever. So when the song played, it

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Speaker 1: all sounded like forever, and then it changed into the

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Speaker 1: Doublement jingle. The song went number one, the songe number one,

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Speaker 1: and it was a jingle that double Men owned. Thinking

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Speaker 1: about radio and being colorful and artful with it and

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Speaker 1: figuring out how to tie the music in with the

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Speaker 1: advertising in a way that it feels entertaining but yet informative,

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Speaker 1: so you stay engaged. If it doesn't pull you in,

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Speaker 1: you don't care about it. I love the way Steve

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Speaker 1: thinks about breaking down silos and creating campaigns to push

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Speaker 1: the limits of creativity. On that topic, it's interesting to

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Speaker 1: think about how marketers use sound and how someone like

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Speaker 1: Olivier Francois, the head of marketing for Fiat Chrysler, creates

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Speaker 1: a mood board for each of his brands, evoking the

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Speaker 1: essence of the brand through sound. To the credit to Fredio,

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Speaker 1: that so much you can do that you can't do

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Speaker 1: with TV or print. Not only do you have a

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Speaker 1: persona for every brand, but you have a sound. You

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Speaker 1: have the music for every brand. Totally have a music

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Speaker 1: for every brand. I mean the soundtrack of the brand

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Speaker 1: is what I call my playlist. So to a marketer,

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Speaker 1: music and radio are the most amazing tool you can

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Speaker 1: dream of. First because it helps you carving your special

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Speaker 1: place in the culture. Second because it gets you the

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Speaker 1: perfect connection with your target. And now I'm thinking of

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Speaker 1: radio as much as I'm thinking of music. Exactly what

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Speaker 1: I'm buying when I have a radio media buy, I

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Speaker 1: buy an incredibly personal connection to the target. You got

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Speaker 1: a friend, I mean, that's what are people on the

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Speaker 1: area brand talking to them? And Third, and that's maybe

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Speaker 1: more for the music. It helps you amplify the brand personality.

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Speaker 1: If you select the right genre in a very consistent manner,

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Speaker 1: it will help you identify a brand in a commercial

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Speaker 1: that's kind of a subconscious connection with the consumer that

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Speaker 1: I hear the music, I can tell you which car

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. Sound is about authenticity. The sound will

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Speaker 1: make it sound deep or Dodge or ram or Crosser

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Speaker 1: or none of them. My ideal sound for Jeep is

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Speaker 1: queen meat. Imagine dragons in something very nthemic. That's a

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Speaker 1: Jeep sound I'm dreaming of. Obviously, country music is home

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Speaker 1: of ram, and hard rock is home of Dodge and

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Speaker 1: so on. If you want to be relatable, you need

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Speaker 1: to sink of your audience and who they relate to it.

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Speaker 1: It's an interesting challenge trying to think about a brand

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Speaker 1: and audio first and trying to figure out exactly what

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Speaker 1: your brand sounds like and what imagery does that sound evoke.

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Speaker 1: It was fun to hear Julie Reager talk about the

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Speaker 1: surprising impact a radio stunt had on her business. But

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Speaker 1: before we get into that, let's take a quick break.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Math and Matt. What we're talking about

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Speaker 1: the power of audio. Here's a great story about how

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Speaker 1: Julie Reager, the former president and chief data strategist at Fox,

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Speaker 1: used data to understand the impact of radio advertising. We

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Speaker 1: had this little movie called Bohemian Rhapsody. You may have

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Speaker 1: heard of it, a tiny movie called Bohemian Rhapsody. And

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Speaker 1: what we did we had your data anonymized. We matched

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Speaker 1: folks that had downloaded your app and used your app

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Speaker 1: to our movie goers. And the reason why we were

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Speaker 1: comfortable with looking at your app dating is because roughly

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Speaker 1: nine that those that have download and used the app

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Speaker 1: also listened to Terrestrial. So once we matched it in

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Speaker 1: my pool, I had people that were movie goers, that

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Speaker 1: had people that were movie goers and also I Heart customers.

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Speaker 1: Then we created a campaign around Boheman Rhapsody with you

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Speaker 1: guys in the film have a feeling, I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to ruin anything here for any of your listeners and

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Speaker 1: no spoiler alert. There was a time when the record

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Speaker 1: producer who's played by Michael Myers, said, nobody's going to

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Speaker 1: play a song on the radio that six minutes long.

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Speaker 1: Six minutes is too long. You guys came back to us.

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Speaker 1: It was just it was like magic and said we're

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Speaker 1: going to roadblock six minutes across our entire network. And

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Speaker 1: once I pulled myself up off the floor and was

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Speaker 1: able to utter a word, the word was genius, and

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Speaker 1: we did it right before the movie launched. So what

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Speaker 1: happened is the movie did all right. And then after

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Speaker 1: about a month, when I got four weeks of data back,

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Speaker 1: I was able to look and see who actually bought

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Speaker 1: tickets to our movie. And I already had my movie

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Speaker 1: goer database, and then I had the database within the

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Speaker 1: database that was movies and I heart And what was

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Speaker 1: interesting is that your customers were buying tickets twelve percent,

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Speaker 1: at a higher rate than those that were just ongoing

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Speaker 1: movie goers. Is that good twelve percent? Because I promise

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Speaker 1: to early on, I wasn't going to use the F words,

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Speaker 1: so I'll say fantastic. It was fan freaking pastic. What

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Speaker 1: everyone in this business is dying for is attribution, dying

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Speaker 1: because they just don't know if it's good money or

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Speaker 1: bad money that they're spending. And I also went in

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Speaker 1: to see if are we just getting a music fan.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to be able to answer my own

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Speaker 1: questions in my head. Was just like a fluke thing.

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Speaker 1: And then I went back in and I looked at

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Speaker 1: other movies that we've done with you all in the

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Speaker 1: last four years, and I found the same pattern. Now

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Speaker 1: Bow rep was a tick hire, which I think is

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Speaker 1: where the music might play in did and the stunt

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Speaker 1: was brilliant. That sub segment always came in higher than

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Speaker 1: the general movie go or segment. So I was really

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Speaker 1: confident in what we had done. Everybody does attribution. It's

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Speaker 1: all about digital, like I'm going to run a banner,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to do a video on YouTube or whatever.

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Speaker 1: My first attribution project was with you doing it with

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Speaker 1: radio is and likely character. Look, we were so excited

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Speaker 1: about it. One for getting someone with your kind of

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Speaker 1: skill set to believe innocent take that leap. I have

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Speaker 1: to congratulate you on doing the roadblock. Someone in the

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Speaker 1: Los Angeles market that works here took a video of

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Speaker 1: them punching between all of our radio stations in l A.

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Speaker 1: And you're hitting the same song by different artists, all

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Speaker 1: playing their version of Bohebian Rapsy. You couldn't get away

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Speaker 1: from it was pretty amazing. Is amazing, right, I mean

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Speaker 1: all the artists with the covers. That was so amazing

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Speaker 1: is that that became into a phenomenon. And let's not

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Speaker 1: forget what happened on the charts with the album, right,

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Speaker 1: So many amazing things that happened. Now. Listen, the movie

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Speaker 1: is amazing. Was the only thing that contributed to this success?

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Speaker 1: The campaign? We didn't know because the movie was incredible.

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Speaker 1: We had other great creative but was it a twelve

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Speaker 1: percent nudge? Heck yeah it was. And I can tell

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Speaker 1: you from my data science team. They come into me

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Speaker 1: very objective, like these are guys, and all my data

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Speaker 1: scientists are guys. I bet their sock yours are incredibly organized.

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Speaker 1: They come into me and they are clean slate every time,

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Speaker 1: and they are factual. They come into me to say

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Speaker 1: with a straight phase, Well, Julie, here's what we found.

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Speaker 1: You've got to be kidding me. And my wildest dreams

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Speaker 1: it would be five. It was twelve. Julie Reager is

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Speaker 1: such a great storyteller, but she also sees ghosts. I'm serious.

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Speaker 1: She's written the great book about it, and you should

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Speaker 1: check out her new podcast, Insider's Guide to the Other Side. Now,

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Speaker 1: one of the things I think about a lot is

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Speaker 1: that radio is meaningful because it's a companion. Elvis, Duran,

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Speaker 1: Martha Quinn, Charlemagne, the God, Ryan Seacrest, Woody. You trust

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Speaker 1: them because they're your friends. They keep you company. But

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Speaker 1: one of the things that Daniel Glass, CEO and founder

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Speaker 1: of the indie label Glass Note Records, points out is

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Speaker 1: that radio is also a great connector let's jump to

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Speaker 1: a topic near and dear to my heart, yours too.

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Speaker 1: Radio It's been at the heart of what you do,

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Speaker 1: what I do. It's certainly at the heart of music

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Speaker 1: marketing and always has been, still is today. Eighty percent

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Speaker 1: of consumers and even of Spotify users say the main

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Speaker 1: way they discover new music is FM radio. In the

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Speaker 1: days of the LPs, consumers heard a song on the radio,

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Speaker 1: heard the DJ talk about it, and when I bought it.

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Speaker 1: Today they hear it, they stream it. Things really haven't

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Speaker 1: changed that much. What is radio and why is it

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Speaker 1: so central to all types of music marketing? How do

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Speaker 1: you use it? It's such a personal medium. I look

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Speaker 1: at radio as being a friend, as being your warm

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Speaker 1: hug that you get. It is something that greets you

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Speaker 1: in the morning my alarm clock, not because I'm here

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Speaker 1: with you, Bob, is because would be very happy. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's a level of talent on the air because it's

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Speaker 1: evolved since the z Morning Zoo started and I grew

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Speaker 1: up at this radio station with my kids. But it's

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Speaker 1: the level of talent and preparation, the work. I know

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Speaker 1: that I'm getting a very expensive product. This is not

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Speaker 1: a casual bunch of people. These are highly trained people

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Speaker 1: who were sleeping when you were partying last night, preparing

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Speaker 1: for a great show. They're entertainers. They're passionate about the music.

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Speaker 1: They front and back announce a record. You have to

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Speaker 1: get that. You hear the saliva coming out of there.

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Speaker 1: You hear the disappointment, you hear the frustration. You hear

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Speaker 1: all kinds of stories about sports, weather, news, tragedy, miracles,

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Speaker 1: elections in context with great music and great rotation. So

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Speaker 1: the endorsement of a radio station, the support that plays

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Speaker 1: it a lot, means that there's something going on. I

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Speaker 1: can't think of how to break an artist or a

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Speaker 1: record without radio in tandem with streaming. I think streaming

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Speaker 1: is very key as an early indicator or a late indicator.

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Speaker 1: But you must have radio. You know, it's very rare

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Speaker 1: that you get to Madison Square Garden or the headlining

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Speaker 1: of a festival, whether it's Lallapalooza, well Glastonbury without radio.

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Speaker 1: I'll give you a scene in Copenhagen. I went to

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Speaker 1: a restaurant that blew my mind. My wife and I

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Speaker 1: we went to see Mumford and Sons in Copenhagen. Thursday night,

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Speaker 1: we got to go to Noma. How could you get in?

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Speaker 1: Because somebody heard me on an interview once and was inspired.

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Speaker 1: One of the co owners and managers heard it and

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Speaker 1: invited me a year ago. Very lucky. So I'm very lucky,

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Speaker 1: and I pinched myself. We get to Noma and we're clicking.

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Speaker 1: There are twenty four different chefs working there, twenty four

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Speaker 1: different nationalities helping us. And this one guy comes over.

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Speaker 1: I said, where are you from? He says, hey, mate,

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Speaker 1: I'm from Australia. And I start rattling off my successes.

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Speaker 1: I've got my early days of ice House and Johnny

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Speaker 1: diesel on, the divinyls that I hit him with, Mansion Air,

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Speaker 1: the temperaturerap flight facilities, the Teskey Brothers, it's blank, nothing

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Speaker 1: going on. My wife said, wow, that was like cold.

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Speaker 1: I'm on the way to the men's room and I said,

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Speaker 1: my wife thinks you're a hip hop head. He said,

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Speaker 1: I am. I said, well, you know we broke childish gambino.

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Speaker 1: Oh now you're talking, he said, I'm getting read I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna march down the aisle just so into you. And

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Speaker 1: he has the wrong artist and I said, no, that

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Speaker 1: was Ta Mia and he did it on Triple J Radio.

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Speaker 1: He clemes back to the table and he said, you're right,

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Speaker 1: it was Triple J Radio. Why I first heard that song.

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Speaker 1: So it was radio connecting us at this moment of

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Speaker 1: a song that he did as a cover song when

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Speaker 1: he was in Australia, and that was a big moment.

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Speaker 1: Well that's it for today's bonus episode of Math and Magic.

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Speaker 1: We have some great new episodes coming your way in

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Speaker 1: season two, from how Robin Hood Foundation got its start

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Speaker 1: to the beginnings of Nickelodeon. Until then, I'm Bob Pittman.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. Thanks so much for listening to Math

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Speaker 1: and Magic, a production of I Heart Radio. This show

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Speaker 1: is hosted by Bob Pittman. Special thanks to Sue Schillinger

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Speaker 1: for booking and wrangling our wonderful talent, which is no

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Speaker 1: small feat Nikkiatore for pulling research bill plaques, and Michael

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Speaker 1: Asar for their recording help, our editor Ryan Murdoch, and

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Speaker 1: of course Gayle Raoul, Eric Angel, Noel Mango and every

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Speaker 1: one who helped bring this show to your ears until

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Speaker 1: next time.