1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,720 Speaker 1: Hey, friends, before we get going, we are super excited 2 00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:08,440 Speaker 1: to announce our true thousand nineteen live tour. Yes, we're 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,400 Speaker 1: still alive, and we're gonna come prop ourselves up on 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: stage in front of you and cities around the country 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 1: and Canada. That's right, everyone. Tickets go on sale this 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 1: Friday at ten a m. Your local time wherever these 7 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: cities are, and we're gonna kick things off in the 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: great City of Chicago in July at the Harris Theater, 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: followed the next night at the Danforth Theater in Toronto, 10 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,000 Speaker 1: Canada on July. Yea. Then we're gonna take a month 11 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: long nap and wake up, and on Thursday, August twenty nine, 12 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,880 Speaker 1: we're gonna take ourselves to Boston, Massa our beloved Wilbur Theater. 13 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 1: The next night, we're going to a new city, first 14 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:47,919 Speaker 1: time ever, in Portland, Maine at the State Theater. I'm 15 00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,480 Speaker 1: so excited about that one. Me too. And then Chuck, 16 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,560 Speaker 1: we're gonna take a nap for another full month, wake 17 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: up again, dust our selves off, and go to Orlando, 18 00:00:56,360 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 1: Florida for the first time ever. We're gonna be at 19 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: Plaza Live. Yeah, man, first Florida show, and then we 20 00:01:01,880 --> 00:01:06,160 Speaker 1: are finishing up that mini leg in New Orleans, yep, Thursday, 21 00:01:06,160 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 1: October tenth, at the Civic Theater. We're returning, So prepare 22 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,759 Speaker 1: the city for partying, everybody. That's right, and we're gonna 23 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: wrap it up at least for now at our beloved 24 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 1: Bell House in Brooklyn, New York, for three shows October again, folks. 25 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: Tickets for all these shows go on sale this Friday 26 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,360 Speaker 1: today am your local time, and just go to all 27 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: of these venue websites for ticketing. Yep. Thank you for 28 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 1: coming to see us in advance, everybody. We're excited. Welcome 29 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,680 Speaker 1: to Stuff you should know, a production of I Heart 30 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:48,600 Speaker 1: Radios How Stuff Works. Hey you, and welcome to the podcast. 31 00:01:48,680 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 1: I'm Josh. There's Chuck. There's Josh, not me, Chuck. Guest 32 00:01:54,440 --> 00:01:57,200 Speaker 1: producer Josh is back in the house. Yeah, and there's 33 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: little Chuck in your pockets, remember a little I was 34 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,040 Speaker 1: just about to say that you got that right, Tony. 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: Oh man, what a great sketch it really was. That 36 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 1: was Nicholas Cage, wasn't it. Yeah? Man, did you ever 37 00:02:09,040 --> 00:02:11,920 Speaker 1: see Mandy? Yes? It was terrible. I don't care what 38 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:16,920 Speaker 1: anybody else says. It terrible, terrible, movie. Yeah, Nolan, I 39 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: talked about it on movie Crush. He's seen it like 40 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,959 Speaker 1: four times, thinks it's the best thing ever. Come on. 41 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: He was like, people love it or hate it, and 42 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 1: now it's like, actually, I was kind of in the middle. 43 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 1: Were you really? Yeah? I mean I told him young Chuck, 44 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: like twenty two year old college Chuck would have probably 45 00:02:31,919 --> 00:02:34,680 Speaker 1: liked it a lot more. But today Chuck was kind 46 00:02:34,680 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 1: of like, I get it. Like, sure, sure, parts of it, 47 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:46,799 Speaker 1: we're fine. Sure to me. Spending an hour doing character development, huh, 48 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:51,280 Speaker 1: but not successfully making you care about the characters just 49 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,320 Speaker 1: really irked me. Wow, you had structural issues. Yeah, that 50 00:02:55,400 --> 00:02:57,600 Speaker 1: was really the big thing. I also thought Lenis Roach 51 00:02:57,680 --> 00:03:01,000 Speaker 1: was very very odd for casting, but that was the 52 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: main bad guy that that was weird, very weird. I 53 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 1: don't even know him, but he's from Law and Order 54 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: and like some other stuff, you gotta get into law. 55 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: See how much you're missing out on that's becoming a bit. 56 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: So did we start recording yet? I think so. I 57 00:03:17,639 --> 00:03:22,640 Speaker 1: already welcomed everybody the podcast. Um so, Chuck, we are 58 00:03:23,120 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: this is some true crime stuff. For getting into here, 59 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 1: that's right, But I feel like we need to set 60 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,320 Speaker 1: the tone right, because this isn't This didn't happened just yesterday. 61 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 1: This happened way back in two in Chicago, Illinois. And 62 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,760 Speaker 1: I remember this and I was like six at the time. 63 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:41,480 Speaker 1: It was one of my favorite years because of this, 64 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: the opposite of that, right, mainly because of movies that 65 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 1: was so great about two. Look at up man? Well, 66 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 1: I was kind of hoping, Oh yeah, okay, yeah, that 67 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,440 Speaker 1: was Do you know I didn't see Blade Runner until 68 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: I was forty. That's not true. Yes, the original, the 69 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: original Blade Runner. Did you like it? That was good. 70 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 1: I like the second one too, You're like, but they 71 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:14,280 Speaker 1: spent way too much time on character. Um. Yeah. And 72 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 1: I just did a little poking around about two and 73 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,640 Speaker 1: it was it was a good year for an eleven 74 00:04:20,680 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: year old, but it was an uneasy time in America. 75 00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,040 Speaker 1: Uh well for a bunch of awful things happened that year. 76 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 1: Uh And I don't know if it was any more 77 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 1: or less than other years, but uh, air Flight ninety 78 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:36,640 Speaker 1: crashed into into the Potomac River, remember that in Washington, 79 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,920 Speaker 1: d C. The plane crash in the river. Didn't hit 80 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,920 Speaker 1: a bridge maybe, but there was there was like a daring, 81 00:04:43,640 --> 00:04:47,520 Speaker 1: icy river rescue. Yeah, seventy eight people died. Though that 82 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,120 Speaker 1: same day a metro train in d C de Rail 83 00:04:51,320 --> 00:04:56,200 Speaker 1: killed three people. Uh. February was when Wayne Williams was convicted, 84 00:04:56,960 --> 00:04:59,039 Speaker 1: and that was just the end of a lot of 85 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:04,120 Speaker 1: uneas you know for years. Uh, Klaus Vambu Law was 86 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: found guilty of attempted murder of his wife in March. 87 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:10,640 Speaker 1: I didn't make it to the end of reversal of fortune, 88 00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:14,839 Speaker 1: so I honestly didn't know what happened to class guilty. Uh. 89 00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,919 Speaker 1: In June was the murder of Vincent Chen, who was 90 00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:23,359 Speaker 1: a Chinese American who was beaten to death by two 91 00:05:24,120 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: men in Michigan thinking he was a Japanese and they 92 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:31,640 Speaker 1: were like stealing his their auto work. I know, right, Uh. 93 00:05:31,680 --> 00:05:35,880 Speaker 1: And then July nine, pan Am flight seven nine goes 94 00:05:35,920 --> 00:05:39,799 Speaker 1: down in Louisiana, Louisiana kills all one forty six people 95 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,600 Speaker 1: on board, plus eight more on the ground. And then 96 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: in September, early September was when I know, man, remember 97 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 1: planes used to just crash a lot. Yeah, that never 98 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,040 Speaker 1: happens now, Uh, not as much. But yeah, weird that 99 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: we're recording this in the midst of more plane gradges 100 00:05:56,200 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 1: and then early September was when that paper boy and Iowa, 101 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 1: Iowa was kidnapped and never seen again. Johnny ghosh M. 102 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 1: I don't know that one. That was a big deal too, 103 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,479 Speaker 1: because it was you know, the paper boy, and there 104 00:06:09,520 --> 00:06:14,120 Speaker 1: was this false story about a pedophile ring from politicians 105 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: and that turned out not to be true, but he 106 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: was never found again. So basically everything that's going on 107 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: today is just a rehash of two It sounds like 108 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 1: I just remember being about that age and they're just 109 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: the nightly news sort of just being a horror show 110 00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:33,400 Speaker 1: and not politically speaking, you know, like real bad incidences occurring. 111 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 1: Well yeah, plane crash, like just about it at any age, 112 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 1: like that'll that'll bring you down if you see that 113 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: on the news for sure, Yeah, um, because you know, 114 00:06:42,800 --> 00:06:45,080 Speaker 1: when you get on a plane, you think maybe this 115 00:06:45,120 --> 00:06:46,719 Speaker 1: plane will go down while I'm on it, and that 116 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: would be terrible. Although I wasn't flying at eleven. So 117 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: all of those things you just mentioned sweep them totally 118 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:58,280 Speaker 1: off the table, because come the end of September of 119 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 1: that year, nothing else mattered but what we're about to 120 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: talk about now, that's right, Nothing nothing came close to 121 00:07:07,560 --> 00:07:13,360 Speaker 1: taking the over the national psyche like the deaths of 122 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 1: seven people beginning on September two in Chicago, Illinois. Yeah, 123 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,920 Speaker 1: and one of the articles I read about this, I mean, 124 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: are we trying to keep it a secret? It's a 125 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: show title, right, yeah, yeah, yeah, I think they're gonna 126 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: have to figure it out. So yeah, go ahead, the 127 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: thailantal murders. Okay, you're like, oh no, no, but that's 128 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,320 Speaker 1: that comes up in part two. Oh yeah, this is 129 00:07:37,360 --> 00:07:40,680 Speaker 1: a two parter. Yeah, as well so Buckling and everybody. 130 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 1: Uh So. I was doing some research though, and I 131 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,400 Speaker 1: saw one article that said something about, you know, the 132 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: first domestic terror incident United States that nobody has ever 133 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,880 Speaker 1: heard of? Like what? Who hasn't heard of this? A 134 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: millennial wrote that headline. Well, I have to say it. 135 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 1: Josh on the way in here. Yeah, I told him 136 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,640 Speaker 1: thailandle murders and huh he goes, what's tail and all? 137 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:06,240 Speaker 1: You old Kadr, we should probably say what Thailand all is? 138 00:08:06,320 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 1: Huh Okay, yeah, I guess just in case you are 139 00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:10,880 Speaker 1: a MILLENNI only you've never heard of Thailand all but 140 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: tail and all was and still is and over the 141 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:17,520 Speaker 1: counter pain reliever. It's like you have eggs and pains 142 00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:21,239 Speaker 1: and apparently what's crazy people would take thaile and all 143 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 1: whatever was wrong with them because now you can go 144 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:30,200 Speaker 1: get like you know, aspirin and um adville and and 145 00:08:30,400 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: a lead. There was no leave back then. That was 146 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: a nineties drug. There's way more over the counter pain 147 00:08:35,360 --> 00:08:37,720 Speaker 1: relievers now than they we're back then. Back then, Thailand 148 00:08:37,760 --> 00:08:42,439 Speaker 1: All was basically it. Yeah, it's a sea of menafin, 149 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:44,640 Speaker 1: which is different than aspirin, and I think a lot 150 00:08:44,679 --> 00:08:48,240 Speaker 1: of people just think those are interchangeable. Right. The reason 151 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 1: I believe thailand All became so big is because aspirin 152 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:56,240 Speaker 1: upsets a lot of people's stomachs tail and all does not, 153 00:08:56,800 --> 00:09:00,199 Speaker 1: or it's not supposed to, And that's why it came 154 00:09:00,200 --> 00:09:03,040 Speaker 1: out of nowhere and just took over the aspera market. 155 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 1: I think by two Thailand All had thirty seven percent 156 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: of the market. It's pretty good cornered. Yeah, yeah, almost half, 157 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: especially since like some of the other like aspirants have 158 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: been around since you know, nineteenth century, right, So it 159 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,320 Speaker 1: makes sense then that when a little girl named Mary 160 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:24,720 Speaker 1: Anne kellerman Uh complained that she had a sore throat 161 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: and wasn't feeling too good at like seven am on Wednesday, 162 00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: September two. Her parents said, just take an extra strength 163 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: to tail and all and go back to bed man 164 00:09:35,800 --> 00:09:39,600 Speaker 1: first sore throat. Imagine the guilt. Oh no, these parents 165 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,880 Speaker 1: feel well, don't blow it. We haven't said what happens 166 00:09:41,920 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: to Marianne Kellerman yet. I think everybody knows. Uh. Yeah, 167 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:48,520 Speaker 1: she got up, said I'm sick. He said, take this. 168 00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:51,559 Speaker 1: The father said he heard her go into the bathroom 169 00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,679 Speaker 1: and close the door, then heard something drop and went 170 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:57,680 Speaker 1: to the door, saying, are you okay, you're okay? Uh 171 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: no answer, opened the door and there she is on 172 00:10:01,640 --> 00:10:05,920 Speaker 1: the floor. Um. Taken to the hospital, but died very quickly. Yeah, 173 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: probably was dead when she went to the hospital, was 174 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: pronounced there Um and she they suspected this is just 175 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: a little twelve year old girl of middle school. Girl 176 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:19,320 Speaker 1: into Jane Adams Middle School. Um. She they think she 177 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,160 Speaker 1: died of a stroke. That's what they thought happened to her. 178 00:10:22,559 --> 00:10:24,760 Speaker 1: They were just so baffled that they're like, it had 179 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 1: to have been a stroke. That's the only thing that 180 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: can come on like this. Yeah. So that's seven am. 181 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: Just the day is just beginning, and one atrocity has 182 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 1: already happened. Yeah, this is a this is a very 183 00:10:36,559 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 1: bad day in the history of Chicago September. Yeah. Absolutely, 184 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: and it started early Adam Janice, who uh will detail 185 00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: his story, but put a pin in this one too, 186 00:10:49,240 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: because he figures in even more prominently in a minute. 187 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 1: But a little bit later that same morning, Uh, this gentleman, 188 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 1: Adam Janese's twenty seven years old and lived in Arlington, 189 00:11:00,000 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: it's another Chicago suburb, and he died. Uh. And they 190 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:07,600 Speaker 1: think that this is a heart attack. Uh. He complained 191 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: of chess pains after he had driven his daughter's neighbor 192 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,680 Speaker 1: home from school. Uh said, I'm gonna take the day off, 193 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: comes home, eats a little lunch, takes two extra strength 194 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 1: tile and all that he bought from a local drug store. 195 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: Collapses in front of his wife, and by you know, 196 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: a few minutes later, when the paramedics arrived, he was dead. Right. 197 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: And again, like you said, they said heart attack because 198 00:11:30,720 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: he's been complaining of chess pains, which had nothing to 199 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: do with it. But just like Marianne Kellerman took an 200 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: extra strength tile and all for a sore throat, he 201 00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: took some extra strength tile and all for some chest pains. 202 00:11:39,600 --> 00:11:41,480 Speaker 1: This is just what people did back then. Yeah, and 203 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: that's what complicated it a little bit at first. Um 204 00:11:45,080 --> 00:11:47,080 Speaker 1: was that you know, if you take the tile and all, 205 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,559 Speaker 1: it means you felt bad already. So obviously you know 206 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: they're gonna be saying like, wait a minute, chess pains 207 00:11:52,440 --> 00:11:54,720 Speaker 1: or some throat like, how does that figure in? Yeah, 208 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,839 Speaker 1: and it didn't. Plus, also, what made this even more 209 00:11:57,840 --> 00:12:01,600 Speaker 1: baffling is that Marianne Kellerman's twelve even healthy. Adam Janis 210 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: was twenty seven and healthy, and all of a sudden 211 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:06,320 Speaker 1: they just dropped up. People don't just drop dead, no 212 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:08,320 Speaker 1: matter what you see on TV or in the movies 213 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 1: or whatever. Dropping dead inexplicably is a really bizarre thing. 214 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,360 Speaker 1: When you're a healthy person. That doesn't happen. Uh. Next 215 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,360 Speaker 1: we have Mary Reiner, same day, same day. This is 216 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:24,079 Speaker 1: still all on the same day. Um, she's twenty seven 217 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: years old. She's feeling a little dizzy. She had just 218 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:31,800 Speaker 1: come home from the hospital. Uh, after having given birth 219 00:12:31,840 --> 00:12:35,200 Speaker 1: to her fourth kid a couple of days before. Super 220 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: super sad. All of these are, obviously, but being a 221 00:12:38,679 --> 00:12:40,839 Speaker 1: just a brand new mom for the fourth time, it's 222 00:12:40,960 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 1: just so tragic. Uh. And then by three forty five. 223 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:47,040 Speaker 1: She was so ill she was rushed back to the 224 00:12:47,080 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: hospital and again died very very quickly. Yeah, and like 225 00:12:50,840 --> 00:12:53,680 Speaker 1: Adam Janis collapsed in front of his wife, she collapsed 226 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:56,080 Speaker 1: in front of her young eight year old daughter. One 227 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: of her children sare um and Yeah, when she was 228 00:12:59,360 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: taking the hospit it all, they pronounced her dead as well. 229 00:13:02,120 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 1: This is mid afternoon. Mary McFarland was up next. She 230 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: was over in um the the suburb of Lombard, and 231 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: she worked at the Illinois Bell Phone Center where you remember, 232 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: like you go get your phone, like the rotary phone, 233 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,640 Speaker 1: you know, you would actually lease your phone. I wasn't 234 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,000 Speaker 1: involved in that process, but we had them in our home. Okay, 235 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:30,160 Speaker 1: well your parents bought that stuff. No, there was like 236 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,360 Speaker 1: a store where you would go It's like the phone 237 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 1: company's retail store, and you would go and be like 238 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: that pink one. It's like smartphones today, kind of same model. 239 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: Kind of Um, yeah, I guess so, but this was 240 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,199 Speaker 1: with a big, clunky rotary phone and you had to 241 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: pay extra for the extra long court. Well. Mary McFarland 242 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 1: worked in one of these stores, and at about four 243 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,920 Speaker 1: o'clock UM at the Illinois Bell Phone center. She was 244 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,280 Speaker 1: She had a massive headache that just came on out 245 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,439 Speaker 1: of nowhere, and she went back and got some extra 246 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: strength tile and all out of her purse, took a 247 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: couple of them, and within minutes collapsed in the store. Yeah, 248 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: she was young as well. She was thirty one years old, 249 00:14:09,240 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 1: mother of two. And then remember I was talking about 250 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:16,600 Speaker 1: Adam Janice a few minutes ago. Um, his family goes 251 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: to the hospital. Obviously, everyone converges there, he passes away, 252 00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: and so the family makes their way home UM to 253 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:27,400 Speaker 1: begin morning and just sort of trying to reconcile what 254 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,120 Speaker 1: had just happened. His brother, Stanley, he was only five, 255 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 1: and then his wife Teresa, who was only nineteen, are 256 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: both just overcome and worn out and have headaches. So 257 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:41,680 Speaker 1: they're at Adam's house. They got to his medicine cabinet, 258 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: get out the tail and all that he took completely 259 00:14:44,320 --> 00:14:51,000 Speaker 1: unknowingly obviously, and uh, Stanley hits the ground, Foam comes 260 00:14:51,000 --> 00:14:53,560 Speaker 1: from his mouth, his eyes rolled back in his head. 261 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:58,200 Speaker 1: Everyone's freaking out, and a few minutes later his wife 262 00:14:58,240 --> 00:15:01,520 Speaker 1: collapses and they called the ambulance. By the time and 263 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: the ambulances get there, I think Stanley died that day, 264 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: and Teresa somehow managed to live a couple of days. Yeah, 265 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,040 Speaker 1: she hung on. And I don't know if like her 266 00:15:11,120 --> 00:15:14,440 Speaker 1: dose is lesser or what, but but she she survived 267 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:16,320 Speaker 1: for a couple of days after that. Yeah. I mean 268 00:15:16,320 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: my guess is that, uh, there just wasn't as much 269 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: cyanide and the capsule she took. Did I just give 270 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:27,400 Speaker 1: something else away? But the so Stanley took his tail 271 00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: in all first, and then Teresa's oo curs and one 272 00:15:29,600 --> 00:15:32,840 Speaker 1: of the paramedics noted, like Teresa was the one that 273 00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: called the ambulance out to come out for Stanley. And 274 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:38,320 Speaker 1: when they get there, they're they're both like on the 275 00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 1: ground and they're like, what's going on? And one of 276 00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,160 Speaker 1: the paramedics said, everything that was happening to the guy 277 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 1: happened to the woman like a couple of minutes later, 278 00:15:44,960 --> 00:15:47,520 Speaker 1: like she was just following him through this process of 279 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 1: like basically systemic organ failure. And this is the same 280 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: day that his brother had passed away. Yep, this is 281 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: about five six hours, six hours after Adam Janis had 282 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 1: Then finally, I know this is all tough to go through. Everyone. 283 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 1: We almost selected this as our next live show I'm 284 00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:11,000 Speaker 1: really glad we did, because, I mean, can you imagine 285 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: trying to liven this up with some jokes? I thought 286 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:15,840 Speaker 1: the whole time I was like, no, we can do that. 287 00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: But yeah, the more I got into it, I was like, yeah, 288 00:16:17,920 --> 00:16:20,760 Speaker 1: it's probably not good live material. We should have a 289 00:16:20,840 --> 00:16:22,960 Speaker 1: rule of thumb that any story that begins with the 290 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 1: death of a twelve year old girl probably not live 291 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,680 Speaker 1: show material. I think you're right. So finally we have 292 00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,960 Speaker 1: Paula Prince. Paula Jeene Prince. This is a couple of 293 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: days later. This is not the same day. This is 294 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,080 Speaker 1: on Friday evening. She was a thirty five year old 295 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: flight attendant and she was found dead in her apartment 296 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:45,320 Speaker 1: after police responded for a welfare check that her sister 297 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 1: called in saying, hey, you know, I know she's a 298 00:16:48,080 --> 00:16:49,920 Speaker 1: flight attendant and all, but no one knows where she is. 299 00:16:49,960 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: Can you go check on her welfare check up? And 300 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:56,480 Speaker 1: they finally found her and she was gone. Yes, very 301 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,360 Speaker 1: very sad. She was found in her bathroom with a 302 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 1: bottle of Strength of Title and all still open on 303 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:08,359 Speaker 1: the counter, and she uh. They looked into um her 304 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:12,160 Speaker 1: receipts and found that she had purchased it on Wednesday September. 305 00:17:13,080 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: That's right. Uh So, at the end of this very 306 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:17,560 Speaker 1: short span of time in the Chicago area, we have 307 00:17:17,640 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 1: seven people dead, and I feel like that's a good 308 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: time to take a message break. Yeah, yeah, all right, 309 00:17:26,760 --> 00:17:50,919 Speaker 1: stop stop, okay, Chuck, So you said cyanide. How did 310 00:17:50,960 --> 00:17:54,040 Speaker 1: you know that? Because I was eleven years old and 311 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:57,400 Speaker 1: I watch the nightly news like all eleven year old 312 00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,800 Speaker 1: state you just called it just me and broke off 313 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:04,760 Speaker 1: Dan Rather, Yeah, Copley? Who else? That was it? Peter 314 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 1: Jennings He came a little later, but sure, yeah, yeah, 315 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,760 Speaker 1: he came after somebody. Well, I mean Cronkite wasn't still around, 316 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: was he? Or was he? I don't know. I don't 317 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,920 Speaker 1: think so. I was. I was going to be into 318 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:20,480 Speaker 1: the news as a kid a little bit. Oh yeah, 319 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,440 Speaker 1: I mean that was that was where you got your 320 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: news back then. Yeah, you would watch the evening news. 321 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,639 Speaker 1: It's very strange to think about now with the with 322 00:18:27,760 --> 00:18:30,520 Speaker 1: the up to the minute news cycle. So oh yeah, 323 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: I know how much more innocent things were back then. Um, 324 00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 1: So remove yourself from the benefit of hindsight or the 325 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,560 Speaker 1: benefit of Dan Rather's insight, and put yourself in the 326 00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,760 Speaker 1: shoes of the people in Chicago. Right, these are five 327 00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,879 Speaker 1: These are seven different deaths. Um, I think from five 328 00:18:49,960 --> 00:18:55,399 Speaker 1: different townships in the greater Chicago area, including Chicago. Paula Prince, 329 00:18:55,480 --> 00:19:00,280 Speaker 1: the last person to die, lived in Chicago. These people 330 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,640 Speaker 1: aren't talking. These people have no idea what's going on. 331 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:07,320 Speaker 1: It's just that there were five, seven separate, baffling deaths. 332 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:10,680 Speaker 1: If you want to if you were people to be dead, 333 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:14,720 Speaker 1: yeah I do. That's good. My voices aren't working though. Um. 334 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:19,000 Speaker 1: It just so happens that the ambulance, the paramedics that 335 00:19:19,119 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: showed up to attend to marry Mary Anne Kellerman, the 336 00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,719 Speaker 1: first girl to die. Um, they were just logging everything 337 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:30,080 Speaker 1: because it was such a baffling thing, and they logged 338 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,160 Speaker 1: her tile and all, yeah logged isn't collected, right, Yeah, 339 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,879 Speaker 1: took it as evidence to maybe look into who knows, 340 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 1: But they took the extra shrink tile and all that 341 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,479 Speaker 1: she had taken, not thinking anything of it, but just 342 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,840 Speaker 1: basically throwing anything at the wall to see what stopped. Yeah, 343 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure the dad was like, you know, she went in, 344 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 1: took some tile and on and dropped dead. So it 345 00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:49,879 Speaker 1: probably made sense even though it's just tail and all 346 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,040 Speaker 1: to say like, well, hey, let's at least take this 347 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:55,359 Speaker 1: in yes, and that title and all that, right, you know, 348 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,280 Speaker 1: because that bottle of tile and all made its way 349 00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 1: into the hands uh of a medical examiner um whose 350 00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,680 Speaker 1: name was Safer and Michael Schaefer tested the tile in 351 00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: all and it was rather surprised to find that some 352 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: of the capsules had not tile in all in it, 353 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:18,160 Speaker 1: but sixty five milligrams of potassium cyanide. And it takes 354 00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:21,480 Speaker 1: about fifty milligrams to kill a healthy adult. Yeah, I 355 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 1: mean some of them. I don't think they were all 356 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: exactly the same, but some of them had been completely 357 00:20:27,359 --> 00:20:33,160 Speaker 1: emptied of any staminafin and completely filled with cyanide. With cyanide, right, yeah, 358 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,639 Speaker 1: I mean it was it was someone intent on for 359 00:20:35,840 --> 00:20:40,360 Speaker 1: sure killing people. Yes, because cyanide is no joke. It's 360 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:44,520 Speaker 1: a it's a really really small molecule um and it 361 00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:47,720 Speaker 1: normally attaches to metals outside of the body, which is 362 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:50,720 Speaker 1: why you have or minerals, I guess, which is why 363 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 1: you have potassium cyanide um when it goes into the 364 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: body when you ingest it, however you ingested, whether it's 365 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,399 Speaker 1: from a tile in all capsule or breathing cyanide gas 366 00:21:00,400 --> 00:21:03,240 Speaker 1: like they used to use to execute people with, Like 367 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,000 Speaker 1: they stopped using it for executions because it was such 368 00:21:06,040 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 1: a brutal death. Yeah, it's a very cruel, painful way 369 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: to die. Um in the body. It detaches from its 370 00:21:12,119 --> 00:21:15,720 Speaker 1: its mineral or metal, and it attaches to a protein 371 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: in the body called um cytochrome c oxidase, which doesn't 372 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: sound like could be a big problem, but it turns 373 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:26,880 Speaker 1: out that that's about the worst protein that cyanide could 374 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 1: attach itself too, because we really need cytochrome c oxidase 375 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:34,919 Speaker 1: to breathe. Yeah, basically it I mean, this sounds like 376 00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,840 Speaker 1: such a cruel thing because it's just rapid cell death 377 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:42,199 Speaker 1: and it's not like your throat closes up and you 378 00:21:42,240 --> 00:21:46,800 Speaker 1: can't breathe, like you're inhaling oxygen and you you are 379 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:51,119 Speaker 1: technically taking breaths, but the oxygen is not getting in 380 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: the cells. No, it's not because that c or that 381 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: cytochrome c oxidase is what helps transport the oxygen and 382 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,240 Speaker 1: get and allows the oxygen to be used for energy. 383 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,720 Speaker 1: So if the potassium is clinging to it, the oxygen, 384 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,560 Speaker 1: can't it just stays in the bloodstream and it doesn't 385 00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,879 Speaker 1: get used by the cells. And since your central nervous 386 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,320 Speaker 1: system is the most oxygen hungry system in your entire body, 387 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: it starts to shut down first. And when your brain 388 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:21,879 Speaker 1: and your spinal cords starts shutting down, all sorts of 389 00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: things happen. Your long start shutting down. Your heart, God 390 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,760 Speaker 1: bless it keeps beating for minutes after the rest of 391 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 1: your body is shut down, so you're not technically dead. 392 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,879 Speaker 1: And they're not sure exactly how long the pain and 393 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,200 Speaker 1: excruciation of dying from cyanide lasts, but they think you're 394 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,000 Speaker 1: probably conscious in a way and freaked out for about 395 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: a minute at least, and your heart may continue beating 396 00:22:47,119 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 1: for three or four minutes after that. So it's not 397 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,840 Speaker 1: a pleasant death at all. No. I mean, you're you're 398 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 1: gasping for air, You're breathing in air, and nothing's happening. 399 00:22:56,600 --> 00:23:00,959 Speaker 1: Like I said, um Stanley Janice, he was foaming at 400 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:02,960 Speaker 1: the mouth and his eyes rolled back in his head 401 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: in front of his family. It's just like it's awful, 402 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:09,679 Speaker 1: like writhing on the floor gasping for air. You're breathing, 403 00:23:09,720 --> 00:23:12,200 Speaker 1: but it's not doing anything. It's just I can't imagine 404 00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,880 Speaker 1: anything more horrifying, right, Because your central nervous system has 405 00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 1: kind of fallen out of its um out of controller rhythm. 406 00:23:18,040 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 1: Convulsions are usually a hallmark of cyanide poisoning. And then 407 00:23:22,119 --> 00:23:24,400 Speaker 1: you turn bright red at the end of it. Yeah, 408 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:27,960 Speaker 1: a skin a chair, you read, they said, Because when 409 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:31,360 Speaker 1: your body has gotten rid of oxygen to your cells 410 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: and the oxygen becomes depleted, um, your your skin kind 411 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,359 Speaker 1: of turns like a rusty brownish red. But because it 412 00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:42,720 Speaker 1: can unload that oxygen when you're dead, it stays a 413 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: bright red and your skin turns bright red. And then 414 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,879 Speaker 1: the other real telltale sign is your breath will smell 415 00:23:48,920 --> 00:23:51,640 Speaker 1: a bit like almonds. Yeah, I mean not a bit. 416 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,600 Speaker 1: I mean these bottles supposedly were really pungent with bitter almond, 417 00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:00,679 Speaker 1: And unless you know what that means, then you're probably 418 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:04,000 Speaker 1: not clued in, you know, Like I wouldn't. I wouldn't 419 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,199 Speaker 1: have known. So I opened a bottle of Thailand on 420 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:08,639 Speaker 1: it smelled like better almen. I'd probably be like, huh, right, 421 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,960 Speaker 1: it's a nice smell. Actually, yeah, I like this tail 422 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,280 Speaker 1: and all. Yeah, I guess they have a new almond flavor. So, 423 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: Michael Schaefer, that medical examiner has just realized that this 424 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,600 Speaker 1: this little girl has been poisoned, but he he knows 425 00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: nothing about these other deaths. There's nothing like that. Um 426 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: it's not entirely clear how everything became connected or who 427 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,280 Speaker 1: connected it. But what I find just particularly astonishing is 428 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,120 Speaker 1: that within just a few hours, by that evening, by 429 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 1: the evening of September twenty nine, people were saying, there's 430 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,680 Speaker 1: something up with the Thailand all in these mysterious deaths 431 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 1: that have been going on all around Chicago. Yeah and not. 432 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,640 Speaker 1: I mean, we'll get into the dragnet they cast. But 433 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: within a few days they had kind of solved everything. 434 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,280 Speaker 1: But who did it and how it may have happened? 435 00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:03,680 Speaker 1: Who done it? Who done it? Um? So, yeah, very 436 00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:05,440 Speaker 1: quickly they figured out the tailand on. There are a 437 00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,639 Speaker 1: couple of different stories, um on, Like you said, on 438 00:25:08,720 --> 00:25:11,960 Speaker 1: who who was the first person to point this out? Um? 439 00:25:12,119 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: One story is that a reporter for the City News 440 00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,359 Speaker 1: Bureau in Chicago was doing the reporter thing and doing 441 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 1: some deep diving and investigating and called up a deputy 442 00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 1: corner and said, hey, I think this is what's happening. 443 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:28,200 Speaker 1: They told the police. Another story is that too, people 444 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,240 Speaker 1: who didn't know each other kind of came together independently 445 00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: to um let people know. One was a fire captain 446 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: name uh, Philip Capitelli. I knew it. I knew you 447 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,399 Speaker 1: were going to do that. There was like a chance, 448 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,960 Speaker 1: you know why, because we got a lot of support 449 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,199 Speaker 1: from people that wrote in saying I'm Italian and I 450 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:48,840 Speaker 1: love it. Keep doing it. And only one guy who 451 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: hated it. But ironically it was fire captain Philip Capitelli 452 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: and said no, so he uh here here was his deal. 453 00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: His um. His mother in law was friends with Mary Kellerman, 454 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 1: the victim's mother. Yeah, the first of the little girl, 455 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,560 Speaker 1: and she said, hey, would you mind looking into this 456 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,360 Speaker 1: because I'm friends with this little girl's mom and it's 457 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,040 Speaker 1: weird that she dropped at it. And he's a fire 458 00:26:14,040 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 1: captain and they're all connected to you know, the police, 459 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:20,480 Speaker 1: into the medical community. Everybody knows you want something done, 460 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 1: ask a fire captain, um, because they'll bust into the 461 00:26:24,920 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: room with an ax get everybody's attention. UM. So he's 462 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,200 Speaker 1: he's investigating. And then there's this, uh there's a nurse 463 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,520 Speaker 1: named Helen Jensen and she i don't. Do you know 464 00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:41,560 Speaker 1: why she was so into this case was just no, no, no. 465 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: She was the public health nurse for Cook County, I believe. Okay, 466 00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,520 Speaker 1: so she had an official designation to investigate. Yes, but 467 00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,080 Speaker 1: unfortunately no one would listen to her because this is 468 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 1: nine two and she was a nurse. Even though she 469 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 1: was like a public health director, she was still a 470 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: nurse and people wouldn't listen to her. And she recalled 471 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,320 Speaker 1: in an oral history I read about this that she 472 00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:07,400 Speaker 1: was stomping her feet out of frustration, saying like, there's 473 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:10,040 Speaker 1: something wrong with the tail and all, like the tail 474 00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:11,880 Speaker 1: and all is behind all this, and people wouldn't listen 475 00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 1: to her. Supposedly, she and Philip got together and um 476 00:27:18,440 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: joined forces and I guess we're able to convince everybody 477 00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 1: that no, there's something wrong with the with the taile 478 00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,720 Speaker 1: and all. And by this time people started talking and 479 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:31,600 Speaker 1: you know, the the idea that Michael Shaffer had identified 480 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,040 Speaker 1: tail and all. I don't know if it was the 481 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:35,639 Speaker 1: same day or the day after something like that, but 482 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:40,000 Speaker 1: all this is within a span of thirty six forty 483 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,879 Speaker 1: eight hours. Top said, all of this is going on, 484 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,520 Speaker 1: that the dots are being connected, right, so uh, then 485 00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,360 Speaker 1: what follows is um, Cook County's Deputy Chief Medical Examiner, Dr. 486 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:56,120 Speaker 1: Edmund Donohue holds a pressor. I've either watched this one 487 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:58,480 Speaker 1: or one of the other ones. Like I remember specifically 488 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:03,080 Speaker 1: seeing this press conference on the news. Probably saw Jane Burns. 489 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 1: That would have been the nationwide one, I guess, yeah, 490 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,119 Speaker 1: And I was like, how would that have been nationwide? 491 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:10,119 Speaker 1: And then I looked it up. W g N was 492 00:28:10,160 --> 00:28:13,440 Speaker 1: a superstation starting in night. Oh you know it, man, 493 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 1: So everybody saw it because wg N could broadcast nationwide. 494 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,439 Speaker 1: By I watched Cubs games a kid just because it 495 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: was on. That was it like that embraced games were 496 00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,640 Speaker 1: all you can So Dr Donohue UM has a pressor, 497 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:35,280 Speaker 1: a local pressor. Um, of course there is panic initially, Yeah, 498 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 1: he scares the s out of everybody because he comes 499 00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,520 Speaker 1: out of nowhere and says stop taking the taile and all, 500 00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: oh yeah sure, and so anyone. I mean, imagine how 501 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,040 Speaker 1: many people in Chicago had taken time and all within 502 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,520 Speaker 1: two hours of that press conference and are thinking like 503 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:53,880 Speaker 1: should I go to the hospital? Right, And as a 504 00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: matter of fact, Um, the poison control lines for basically 505 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: every in every city where somebody saw this started to 506 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 1: light up right after that, and people are like, I 507 00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:05,880 Speaker 1: just took tile in all, Am I okay? Or gave 508 00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,720 Speaker 1: my kid? Can you imagine? And the the what came 509 00:29:08,760 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: to be the pat response was if you are still 510 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:15,360 Speaker 1: standing and talking to us, you're probably okay, which is 511 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,160 Speaker 1: sort of a double edged sword, right, It's like, don't worry, 512 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: you die super fast kind of so just relax. So 513 00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:23,840 Speaker 1: just hold the line for five minutes and then I'm 514 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:25,560 Speaker 1: gonna come back and check on you. And if you're 515 00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 1: still talking, you're fine. Oh man, um alright. So then 516 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 1: the Chicago Mayor's office gets involved, Like you said, Mayor 517 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,440 Speaker 1: Jane Byrne, she gets says, you know, print a bunch 518 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: of flyers, print them in a bunch of languages, maybe 519 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 1: on Golden Rod and corn flower blue. Sure, why not 520 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,560 Speaker 1: really catch people's attention? Uh that she had police drive 521 00:29:45,640 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: through um with loud speakers on their car, literally saying like, 522 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:54,400 Speaker 1: don't take tile in all, re enacting that scene from 523 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:58,000 Speaker 1: The Blues Brothers. Whether I was thinking slacker and that's funny, 524 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: two different movies. But do you remember they're driving through 525 00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: in the police car with the loudspeaker talking about their 526 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: their show. Yeah, same as Slacker. I don't remember. I 527 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:08,120 Speaker 1: don't I guess I didn't make it to the end 528 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:11,480 Speaker 1: of Slacker either. It was in the middle ish. There 529 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: was no Dazed in confused huh oh, just different movies. Um, 530 00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:18,800 Speaker 1: so they're they're posting flyers, cops are driving around blaring 531 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: it through neighborhoods uh. And then she has a press conference, 532 00:30:23,880 --> 00:30:28,160 Speaker 1: she has all Thailand all removed from the Chicago area. 533 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,960 Speaker 1: She calls for it. Well, sure she didn't go around 534 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: with her her basket, right, No, I'm not a hundred 535 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,920 Speaker 1: percent clear if she was actually able to demand that 536 00:30:38,960 --> 00:30:42,920 Speaker 1: the Thailand all be removed. I think she was more warning. Yeah, 537 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 1: I mean I doubt if there was any law she 538 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: could invoke. I wonder though, it seems I would imagine 539 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: that's you know, we'll talk about that later. So, um, 540 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: the TV and the radio. You know, obviously everyone picks 541 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: us up, not just in Chicago or the United States. 542 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:02,640 Speaker 1: It goes worldwide, and so you know there's people in 543 00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:06,440 Speaker 1: Europe and Asia pulling Thailand all off the shelves. So 544 00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:09,440 Speaker 1: this is a big deal, And there was a lot 545 00:31:09,720 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: of attention lavished on this. There was a poll that 546 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 1: was taken the next month in October that found that 547 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:20,920 Speaker 1: this was in cities all over the country, that found 548 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:25,200 Speaker 1: that respondents were aware of this thail and all poisoning story. 549 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:30,200 Speaker 1: Some some press agency like a news clipping service said 550 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:34,959 Speaker 1: that it's the number of the number of stories dedicated 551 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:37,760 Speaker 1: to it were second only to the number of stories 552 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:41,400 Speaker 1: dedicated to the assassination of JFK. That's how big this 553 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: story became overnight. And again one of the reasons why 554 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:50,040 Speaker 1: is because everybody took Thailand all for everything, all the time. 555 00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:53,600 Speaker 1: That's just what you did. It was just something everyone took, 556 00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:59,120 Speaker 1: and that same product was now killing people. So the 557 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:02,120 Speaker 1: most chilling part of all this to me, and this 558 00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:08,200 Speaker 1: is all chilling, uh, maybe the copycat stuff because almost immediately, 559 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:12,560 Speaker 1: UM copycat incidences started popping up all over the country. 560 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: Um there were two d seventy reports of product tampering 561 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: in the month after thirty six were quote hardcore true tamperings. 562 00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: And that's what's the most chilling to me, is like 563 00:32:25,480 --> 00:32:28,720 Speaker 1: there were that many people, at least thirty six, let's 564 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,120 Speaker 1: go on the low end, thirty six people across the 565 00:32:31,160 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: country that wanted to kill people and just saw an 566 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,600 Speaker 1: idea and I'm like, oh, that's what I'll do now. 567 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,960 Speaker 1: I should have thought of that myself. I mean that's scary, man. Yeah. 568 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:46,240 Speaker 1: What's what's scary but also infuriating is that there's such 569 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 1: terrible self starters that they had to be a copycat 570 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,000 Speaker 1: murderer in that, you know what I'm saying, Like, it's 571 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:55,960 Speaker 1: bad enough that they're trying to kill somebody, randomly kill somebody, 572 00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: anonymously kill somebody. They didn't even think of it themselves 573 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:02,680 Speaker 1: as a pathetic murderer right there, it's pretty pathetic. Put 574 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:07,600 Speaker 1: my foot down. Exceedrian extra strength Excedrian capsules UM were 575 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:12,720 Speaker 1: found poison with mercuric chloride uh, and that almost killed 576 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:16,680 Speaker 1: a man in Colorado. His name was William Sinkovich and 577 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,440 Speaker 1: he got he had liberal and kidney failure, but he 578 00:33:19,480 --> 00:33:24,360 Speaker 1: did survive. Uh. This one gets me so more than 579 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:28,120 Speaker 1: one person thought, Oh, well, you know people spray and 580 00:33:28,280 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: like drop things in their eyes and nose, I'll put 581 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,360 Speaker 1: acid in there. So tampered sin X and tampered vizine 582 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,440 Speaker 1: both turned up after they had burned people with acid. 583 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,960 Speaker 1: Chemical burn up your nose. Unbelievable. Yeah, that's a bad one. 584 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: So food was also on the list of things being 585 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:48,800 Speaker 1: tampered with um orange juice, chocolate milk. Very high profile 586 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: incident with ballpark hot dogs. They pulled a million pounds 587 00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:56,240 Speaker 1: of wieners off the shelves and ran them through a 588 00:33:56,360 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: metal detector. Yeah, because this was a scare all of 589 00:33:59,200 --> 00:34:02,080 Speaker 1: you know, the old urban legend of razor blades and 590 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:06,040 Speaker 1: Halloween candy. I don't Did they actually find pins and 591 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: needles and things for sure? Yes? Okay, because I thought 592 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,160 Speaker 1: that had literally never happened. It hadn't. It was an 593 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 1: urban legend that became true. But nothing in in the wieners. No, 594 00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:20,240 Speaker 1: some boys I think in Detroit claimed to have found 595 00:34:20,360 --> 00:34:22,919 Speaker 1: razor blades in their ballpark wieners, and like you said, 596 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: a million pounds were recalled and then the boys were like, wow, 597 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:31,200 Speaker 1: we were just kidding. Yeah. And ballpark, well we'll talk 598 00:34:31,239 --> 00:34:33,719 Speaker 1: about how ballpark was treated after that. But they were 599 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,680 Speaker 1: put on shoulders and carried around for how great they 600 00:34:36,719 --> 00:34:39,680 Speaker 1: handled everything. Uh, And you know, there are a lot 601 00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:43,160 Speaker 1: of hoaxes. There were a lot of UM tips called 602 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:46,480 Speaker 1: in about other tampering and it had to really like 603 00:34:46,640 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: it if the purpose of this was to induce panic 604 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,919 Speaker 1: and fear and terror. Then it absolutely worked, absolutely should 605 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,000 Speaker 1: be taken another break, I think. So, man, we're gonna 606 00:34:57,080 --> 00:35:23,240 Speaker 1: come back and talk about the investigation. Stop stop, okay, 607 00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: chuck um. I also want to point this out Time magazine. 608 00:35:28,239 --> 00:35:31,080 Speaker 1: You know how I'm like super into uh like going 609 00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:34,919 Speaker 1: back and reading contemporary news articles about an event this one. 610 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: I mean, it's all over the place. But Time wrote 611 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:42,120 Speaker 1: about the copycat incidents back in two and they said 612 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:47,399 Speaker 1: that the copycats were trying to quote emulate their demonic hero. 613 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:52,880 Speaker 1: There's still unknown poisoner their demonic hero. That's what the 614 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:56,719 Speaker 1: journalists from Time decided to go with. That's funny, I guess. 615 00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,080 Speaker 1: I mean that seems like a very two thousand nineteen 616 00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,440 Speaker 1: thing to write. That's what I'm saying. I feel like 617 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,239 Speaker 1: we're reverting back too right now, I guess. So after 618 00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:10,680 Speaker 1: that intro of yours, I'm now convinced. So everybody's freaked 619 00:36:10,719 --> 00:36:15,080 Speaker 1: out there. There are whole towns that canceled Halloween because 620 00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:19,240 Speaker 1: remember this happened like a month before Halloween, and everyone 621 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:23,000 Speaker 1: was very scared about candy tampering because of the urban legend. 622 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,279 Speaker 1: In some places that turned out to be true, a 623 00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 1: self fulfilling prophecy. There are all these hoaxes, there are 624 00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:32,280 Speaker 1: all these actual true product tamperings, copycats. People were freaked 625 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:35,719 Speaker 1: out and the cops needed to do something. And initially 626 00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:40,279 Speaker 1: these seven different deaths in five different towns in the 627 00:36:40,360 --> 00:36:46,720 Speaker 1: Chicago area, we're being treated as five different investigations. Um, 628 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,960 Speaker 1: that didn't last for very long. Within two days, by Friday, 629 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:53,160 Speaker 1: by the time Mayor Burne holds her press conference on 630 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:56,960 Speaker 1: w g n UM, what came to be called the 631 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,919 Speaker 1: Thailand All Task Force was formed. All five those investigations 632 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:05,640 Speaker 1: got folded into not just local investigations, the FBI, the 633 00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:09,960 Speaker 1: Illinois State Police, UM, FDA of course, Yeah, the FDA 634 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:12,640 Speaker 1: was involved that, and then the whole thing was led 635 00:37:12,640 --> 00:37:16,720 Speaker 1: by the Illinois District Attorney's office, who was the nominal 636 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:19,800 Speaker 1: head of the investigation. Yeah. So they figured out pretty 637 00:37:19,840 --> 00:37:22,960 Speaker 1: quickly that um, you know, like I said earlier, they 638 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: cast their drag net. They come up with about a 639 00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,320 Speaker 1: fifty mile radius of where all this stuff was bought 640 00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: and sold, and go investigate drug store after drug store, 641 00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,200 Speaker 1: and they did find more more bad thaile in all that, 642 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,359 Speaker 1: I'm still sitting on the shelves thankfully. Yeah, yeah, I don't. 643 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:45,640 Speaker 1: I don't want to skim past that. They found more Thilent, 644 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,000 Speaker 1: all waiting to be bought, that's right, like just sitting 645 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,600 Speaker 1: there like, hey, come by me. Within two days of 646 00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: of these first deaths, these first murders that we keep 647 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:59,279 Speaker 1: calling them deaths, these were murders, that's right. Uh. And 648 00:37:59,320 --> 00:38:03,120 Speaker 1: they name their their case there's they're always code names 649 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,239 Speaker 1: for all these cases. This one ranks pretty low in 650 00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:11,800 Speaker 1: my opinion. Timers T Y m U R S short 651 00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,680 Speaker 1: obviously for Tilent all murders. At the very least, the 652 00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:20,040 Speaker 1: s should have been a Z timers. Yeah, yeah, let's 653 00:38:20,040 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: give it a little flavor. Agreed. Uh. So the cops 654 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:27,040 Speaker 1: are um there. There was some confusion about how this 655 00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,560 Speaker 1: went down because they're trying to figure out, you know, 656 00:38:30,000 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: did it happened at the factory, did it happen after 657 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:35,920 Speaker 1: the factory? What's the supply chain? Like, well, that's that's huge, 658 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,839 Speaker 1: it's like the crux of the investigent. Yeah, absolutely, Where 659 00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,120 Speaker 1: did the tainting occur? Yeah, So they found out that 660 00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:48,360 Speaker 1: all of the containers were from Lot number MC, which 661 00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: was pushed out in August. Again, this is the end 662 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,440 Speaker 1: of September. Uh, in states east, all states east of 663 00:38:55,440 --> 00:38:59,440 Speaker 1: the Mississippi, plus the Dakotas, Nebraska, in a bit of Wyoming. 664 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: Just just to touch a Wyoming for flavor. That's right, 665 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:09,040 Speaker 1: that mesquite flavor. Uh. However, they were from different production 666 00:39:09,080 --> 00:39:11,479 Speaker 1: plants and they were sold in different drug stores, which 667 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:13,400 Speaker 1: is weird. It's tough to wrap your head around that 668 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:16,720 Speaker 1: because it's the same lot, but they came from different plants. 669 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:19,440 Speaker 1: And it turns out Thailand all has also a really 670 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:25,239 Speaker 1: weird convoluted distribution network. I think that's every company. I 671 00:39:25,239 --> 00:39:27,319 Speaker 1: have a friend that works in supply chain management and 672 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: I was like, huh, so supposedly they'll they'll take boxes 673 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:34,800 Speaker 1: and open them up and repackage them in smaller boxes. 674 00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,600 Speaker 1: And it happens at like different different companies at different 675 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: points around the country. It's pretty complicated from from a 676 00:39:40,680 --> 00:39:43,920 Speaker 1: product from factory to your mouth, like what happens to 677 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,680 Speaker 1: kind of everything. Um, I would think simplicity would be 678 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: safer much, you know, probably not cheaper, though you're probably right. 679 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 1: So what they finally figured out was, here's what we 680 00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:03,120 Speaker 1: think happened is this stuff was not tainted at the factory. 681 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,040 Speaker 1: This stuff was not tainted in the supply chain, but 682 00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:10,680 Speaker 1: this stuff was tainted, it from the store and then 683 00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: returned back to the store because these pills were sold 684 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:18,960 Speaker 1: in different stores, which is a big one, because not 685 00:40:19,000 --> 00:40:21,400 Speaker 1: only could it have been like part of the factory, 686 00:40:21,800 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: it could have been one of the local stores distribution 687 00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:27,120 Speaker 1: centers where there was somebody messing with it. But since 688 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,360 Speaker 1: they were sold in Jewel food stores and Walgreens and 689 00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:34,160 Speaker 1: other places too around the Chicago area, that didn't make 690 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: any sense. It couldn't have just been like the jewel 691 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: distribution center. And also because they were coming from different 692 00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,560 Speaker 1: production plants, it really couldn't have been the production plant 693 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,239 Speaker 1: or the factory where it came from. It had to be, 694 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 1: like you said, happening at the stores. Yeah, And there 695 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 1: were a lot of initial theories, you know. Was it 696 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,800 Speaker 1: someone who like a former disgruntled employee of Johnson and Johnson? 697 00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,640 Speaker 1: Was it someone uh? Was it it just a serial 698 00:41:00,719 --> 00:41:03,360 Speaker 1: killer who just picked tail on all and wanted to 699 00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:06,200 Speaker 1: randomly kill people? Right? And this is that's weird, that's 700 00:41:06,200 --> 00:41:08,279 Speaker 1: a weird idea at the time, like now it just 701 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:12,000 Speaker 1: seems normal, like yeah, probably, but this but this was 702 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:17,400 Speaker 1: two years before the Sanya Cidro McDonald's massacre, which is 703 00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:22,320 Speaker 1: one of the very one of the next random killings 704 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:24,000 Speaker 1: of people who just happened to be in the wrong 705 00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,359 Speaker 1: place at the wrong time. This was kind of the 706 00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 1: first of that, but it was still so new and remote. 707 00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 1: An alien that that's that didn't seem like a realistic 708 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,560 Speaker 1: idea at the time. Yeah, some of the other ideas 709 00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:39,680 Speaker 1: they thought, um, maybe this was someone that was targeting 710 00:41:39,760 --> 00:41:44,560 Speaker 1: a specific person or people and then randomly poisoned other 711 00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:49,240 Speaker 1: people to cover their tracks. One of the weird um 712 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,320 Speaker 1: one of the weird theories that came out later after 713 00:41:52,920 --> 00:41:58,319 Speaker 1: an spoiler alert, we now have tamper proof medicines. Sure 714 00:41:58,320 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: everyone's noticed. It was one theory that it was someone 715 00:42:01,719 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: who had a financial steak and tamper proof technology. Yeah, 716 00:42:06,239 --> 00:42:08,799 Speaker 1: I saw something like that too. I don't think there 717 00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:10,719 Speaker 1: was ever a ton of credence put into that one, 718 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: But the point is there were a lot. I mean, 719 00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:16,000 Speaker 1: they were flying blind basically because it was just such 720 00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:19,520 Speaker 1: an unexpected, odd, random thing that we're basically coming up 721 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:21,360 Speaker 1: with kind of any idea they could think of. But 722 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,480 Speaker 1: the one that the cops settled on and the one 723 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,160 Speaker 1: that Johnson and Johnson also settled on too, because they 724 00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:30,840 Speaker 1: went back and tested samples from Lot MC and found 725 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:33,920 Speaker 1: that there was no no, there's no taining of the 726 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,080 Speaker 1: of the lot that there's their samples were pure. So 727 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,840 Speaker 1: the cops and Johnson and Johnson both decided they settled 728 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,879 Speaker 1: on what's called the mad poisoner theory. That somebody went 729 00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,920 Speaker 1: around this fifty mile radius in in the Chicago area 730 00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 1: UM in about seven hours is what the cops calculated. 731 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,879 Speaker 1: It would have taken either bought a bunch of tile 732 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:56,720 Speaker 1: in all and then took it back to their house 733 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:00,120 Speaker 1: and poisoned it, repackaged it and then drove around and 734 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,520 Speaker 1: redistributed it, or went from store to store, went in, 735 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,080 Speaker 1: bought some tile and all, took it out to the car, 736 00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: poisoned it, and then repackaged it and brought it back in. UM. 737 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,960 Speaker 1: But that it was local and it was specific to Chicago. 738 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:19,840 Speaker 1: That was the mad poisoner theory. And again why still 739 00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,680 Speaker 1: no one has any idea why. Um. It could have 740 00:43:22,719 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: been random, they could have been targeting somebody. It could 741 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,879 Speaker 1: have been a disgruntal Johnson and Johnson employee. But the 742 00:43:28,320 --> 00:43:32,040 Speaker 1: main theory for the Thaile and all killings in Chicago 743 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:34,840 Speaker 1: is the mad poison er theory. Yeah, and do you 744 00:43:34,880 --> 00:43:37,280 Speaker 1: know how they tested that the rest of that lot. 745 00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:42,800 Speaker 1: They got Detective John Pinky McFarland, who had the best 746 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:47,120 Speaker 1: drug pinky and all of Illinois. And he went around 747 00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: and dipped that pinky in, touched it to his tongue. 748 00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:52,440 Speaker 1: He said, it's good. He's like, I can't feel my 749 00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:54,640 Speaker 1: face right now. The guy's a legend. Yeah, he's his 750 00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:57,720 Speaker 1: pinky is his pinky ring is so significant and barely 751 00:43:57,760 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: lift his finger. He only lifts to test drugs. I 752 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:05,160 Speaker 1: told you we'd find some jokes. So by mid October, 753 00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:09,160 Speaker 1: this is sort of the final bit of part one here. Um, 754 00:44:09,200 --> 00:44:12,880 Speaker 1: there was another bottle that people that they found another 755 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,640 Speaker 1: tainted bottle that was purchased on September twenty nine, so 756 00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:20,040 Speaker 1: it fit the bill. And it was a woman who 757 00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,719 Speaker 1: uh was feeling bad and went to go get that 758 00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:26,560 Speaker 1: tail in all and her sister was like, no, I've 759 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:28,600 Speaker 1: got some buffering right here, just go ahead and take that. 760 00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: And the lady presumably said, well, I really prefer see 761 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:34,439 Speaker 1: a benefit, but I guess I'll take an aspirin. So yeah, 762 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,840 Speaker 1: her sister in law saved her by offering her buffering instead. 763 00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:42,640 Speaker 1: She was steps away from dropping dead at a family gathering. Unbelievable. 764 00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:45,879 Speaker 1: That is a good place to stop. Huh. Yeah. So 765 00:44:45,920 --> 00:44:49,719 Speaker 1: that's part one of the Thailand All Murders or Timer's 766 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,279 Speaker 1: with an S, and we're gonna come back with part 767 00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,200 Speaker 1: two after this. If you want to get in touch 768 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,440 Speaker 1: with this in the meantime, you can go on to 769 00:44:56,520 --> 00:44:58,399 Speaker 1: stuff you Should Know dot com and check out our 770 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:00,879 Speaker 1: social links, or you can send us a good old 771 00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:06,560 Speaker 1: fashioned email version to stuff podcast at i heeart radio 772 00:45:06,920 --> 00:45:12,000 Speaker 1: dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production of 773 00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,759 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for my 774 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,600 Speaker 1: heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or 775 00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:22,440 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H