1 00:00:01,280 --> 00:00:04,359 Speaker 1: Welcome in his verdict with Center, Ted Kruz Ben Ferguson 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: with you. It's nice to have you, and we've got 3 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:11,119 Speaker 1: some very interesting legislation that you are heading up that 4 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: is making waves. 5 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 2: Fill people in on what you're wanting to do well. 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,160 Speaker 3: This week, I introduced legislation to designate the Muslim Brotherhood 7 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,440 Speaker 3: as a terrorist organization. This is a fight I've been 8 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,119 Speaker 3: fighting for over a decade. I think the Muslim Brotherhood 9 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 3: clearly is a terrorist organization. It is profoundly dangerous, and 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 3: I think we are closer right now to victory on 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 3: this issue than we ever have been. We're going to 12 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 3: do a deep dive, explain the background, what the issues are, 13 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 3: why we're close to victory, and what that would mean. 14 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,960 Speaker 3: We're also going to talk about an amazing development, a 15 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 3: really important development, which is the IRS has now said 16 00:00:48,159 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 3: explicitly that churches and pastors can endorse political candidates. That 17 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,200 Speaker 3: is a big, big deal. For a long time, there 18 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:03,200 Speaker 3: was legislation known as the Johnson Amendment that was interpreted 19 00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 3: as stripping the ability of pastors and churches to express 20 00:01:06,560 --> 00:01:09,959 Speaker 3: their views on politics. The IRS entered into a consent 21 00:01:10,720 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 3: agreement that now makes clear churches and pastors can can 22 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:18,320 Speaker 3: tell their congregations exactly what they think about politics. 23 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,000 Speaker 4: That's a big, big deal. 24 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,800 Speaker 3: And finally, The New York Times, in a shocking expose, 25 00:01:25,720 --> 00:01:31,280 Speaker 3: looked at the Biden autopen scandal and they reported that 26 00:01:31,319 --> 00:01:35,640 Speaker 3: from for a significant portion of the autopenned pardons that 27 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 3: Joe Biden signed, that he was not individually aware of 28 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:44,840 Speaker 3: who it was that was getting pardoned. That is incredibly consequential. 29 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:48,160 Speaker 3: It means as a legal matter, those pardons are null 30 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 3: and void. We're going to explain all of that right now. 31 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a really interesting story. We're going to have 32 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:55,720 Speaker 1: all those details for you in just a moment. Let 33 00:01:55,760 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 1: me also just say many of you may be listening 34 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,640 Speaker 1: to the show for the first time fighting this podcasts 35 00:02:00,640 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 1: on another feed, and if you are, don't forget to 36 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: hit that subscribe or auto download button, as we actually 37 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,480 Speaker 1: do the show three days a week, so makes you 38 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: do that. 39 00:02:10,160 --> 00:02:10,520 Speaker 4: All right? 40 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:12,520 Speaker 1: I love when I get to take a moment and 41 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 1: tell you about something that I genuinely think you're going 42 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: to love. 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All right, Senata, 77 00:03:56,480 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 1: you said that twenty This has been something I should say, 78 00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 1: for well over a decade you have been working on 79 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:06,440 Speaker 1: and I am shocked why there is so much pushback. 80 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: Give a little background on the Muslim Brotherhood. Let's start 81 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: there for people that may not realize what this global 82 00:04:13,680 --> 00:04:18,479 Speaker 1: organization is, what they do, and why you think that 83 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,840 Speaker 1: they need to be included and designated as a terrorist organization. 84 00:04:22,680 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 3: Sure, the Muslim Brotherhood is a global Islamist violent organization. 85 00:04:29,760 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 3: It was founded in nineteen twenty eight in Egypt. It 86 00:04:33,400 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 3: was a fringe group for the first few decades, and 87 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:39,320 Speaker 3: then it grew dramatically inside of Egypt and then it 88 00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 3: spread beyond. The Muslim Brotherhood has branches and countries and 89 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 3: territories all over the world, and they are openly committed 90 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 3: to seizing control of those countries and seizing control of 91 00:04:52,000 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 3: those territories. They explicitly intend to use violent jihad to 92 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:06,839 Speaker 3: overthrow non Islamist governments. During the Obama administration, they did. 93 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 3: They seized control of Egypt. Mohammed Morci and the Muslim 94 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,919 Speaker 3: Brotherhood seized control until they were ultimately overthrown by the 95 00:05:15,960 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 3: Egyptian army. By the way, when when the Muslim Brotherhood 96 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 3: took over Egypt, the Obama administration cheered them on. And 97 00:05:25,200 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 3: how do we know that the Muslim Brotherhood supports terrorism 98 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:36,159 Speaker 3: because several of their branches are explicit terrorist organizations. Among 99 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:41,320 Speaker 3: those is Hamas, which everyone listening to this podcast knows about. 100 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 4: Hamas. 101 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, Hamas is one of the wings of the Muslim Brotherhood. 102 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 3: They also include other groups that folks may not have 103 00:05:51,160 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 3: heard about, like Hassim and Leewa al Thawrah, both of 104 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 3: which the State Departman says have been associated with the 105 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,760 Speaker 3: Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood, and they are branches that have already 106 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 3: been formally designated as terrorist groups. Other Brotherhood branches are 107 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 3: committing terrorism right now, but they haven't yet been formally designated. 108 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,919 Speaker 3: Just a few weeks ago, the Jordanian government disrupted attacks 109 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:26,320 Speaker 3: being planned by Brotherhood members, and police raided the Islamic 110 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 3: Action Front, which is the Jordanian Muslim Brotherhood branch. 111 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:33,320 Speaker 2: You hear that. 112 00:06:33,560 --> 00:06:35,480 Speaker 1: And then the question that I think some of people 113 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: listening and I'm thinking my head right now, is Okay, 114 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: if there is such a long history, why did it 115 00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: take so long for us to even get to the 116 00:06:43,720 --> 00:06:46,679 Speaker 1: point they're at right now? If it's been this clear 117 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: that their terrorist organization? And then the second part is, 118 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: then why in the past, even after whether it was 119 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,800 Speaker 1: nine to eleven or other attacks that we've seen around 120 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,840 Speaker 1: the world, why haven't they already been listened as a 121 00:06:57,920 --> 00:06:58,719 Speaker 1: terrorist organization. 122 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 3: Well, so, it's a complicated story, and it basically comes 123 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,880 Speaker 3: down to the messed up politics inside the American Democrat Party. 124 00:07:08,839 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 3: A bunch of our allies have already designated the entire 125 00:07:12,560 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 3: Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organization in. 126 00:07:15,480 --> 00:07:16,200 Speaker 4: The Middle East. 127 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:21,520 Speaker 3: Bahrain has done so, Egypt has done so, Jordan has 128 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 3: done so, Saudi Arabia has done so. The UAE has 129 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 3: done so in Europe. Austria has designated the Muslim Brotherhood 130 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 3: as a haarrist organization. There's a bill right now in 131 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:35,720 Speaker 3: Germany to designate it, and French intelligence has described the 132 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:40,920 Speaker 3: Muslim Brotherhood as quote a threat to national cohesion. British 133 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 3: officials say the Brotherhood is right now under surveillance under 134 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 3: their anti extremism laws. So the question is why is 135 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,920 Speaker 3: America lagging behind? And I'll tell you We've done it. 136 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 3: I've been pushing to do this for over a decade. 137 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 3: You're in the one hundred and nineteenth Congress right now. 138 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:05,320 Speaker 3: I introduced versions of this bill in the one hundred 139 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 3: and fourteenth Congress in twenty fifteen, in the one hundred 140 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,000 Speaker 3: and fifteenth Congress in twenty seventeen, and the one hundred 141 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 3: and sixteenth Congress in twenty twenty, and in the one 142 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 3: hundred and seventeenth Congress in twenty twenty one. And the 143 00:08:20,680 --> 00:08:26,000 Speaker 3: reason that it hasn't gone anywhere is that Democrats oppose it. Now, 144 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:32,320 Speaker 3: it seems weird. Why would a why would progressives embrace 145 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:38,920 Speaker 3: a fundamentalist Islamist jihadist organization which is openly and brazenly 146 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:42,960 Speaker 3: against rights for women, openly and brazenly against rights for homosexuals. 147 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:47,440 Speaker 3: But to the left, they do it because the Muslim 148 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:51,440 Speaker 3: Brotherhood is also anti American and it wants to see 149 00:08:51,480 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 3: Israel destroyed. And there is a significant chunk of today's 150 00:08:55,559 --> 00:09:01,239 Speaker 3: left that celebrates with the anti Israel hatred, that celebrates 151 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:05,320 Speaker 3: with Amas, and and that celebrates attacks on America. 152 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 1: If I remember correctly, the Muslim Brotherhood was also if 153 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,960 Speaker 1: we go back to Obama's years, somewhat normalized as well. 154 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: Right. 155 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, look when when the Muslim Brotherhood was running Egypt. 156 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,199 Speaker 3: When when when they they took it over, Mohammed Morsey 157 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 3: was was there? You may remember there were a million 158 00:09:23,920 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 3: people that showed up in the streets of Cairo protesting 159 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,600 Speaker 3: against the Muslim Brotherhood because the people of Egypt did 160 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 3: not want to live under Jahadis, They did not want 161 00:09:32,559 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 3: to live under enforced Sharia law. And at the time, 162 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 3: it was amazing. There were signs that you could see 163 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:45,040 Speaker 3: in this crowd of a million Egyptians protesting, signs that 164 00:09:45,160 --> 00:09:47,839 Speaker 3: said Obama supports the Muslim Brotherhood. 165 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 4: Uh. 166 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:51,679 Speaker 3: The ambassador, Obama's ambassador at the time to Egypt was 167 00:09:51,679 --> 00:09:54,120 Speaker 3: a woman named Ann Patterson. There were signs pictures of 168 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:59,479 Speaker 3: her saying Ann Patterson supports Mohammed Morsey. The Obama administration 169 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:04,760 Speaker 3: leaned in aggressively supporting the Brotherhood. And and in fact, 170 00:10:05,240 --> 00:10:08,080 Speaker 3: when when Alceci was the current leader of of of 171 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:11,680 Speaker 3: Egypt took over, when the army took over, the Obama 172 00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:15,240 Speaker 3: administration was vocally against that. Now Alcci is an ally 173 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 3: of America. Alceci is locking up Jihadis and radical Islamic 174 00:10:19,440 --> 00:10:23,000 Speaker 3: terrorists who want to murder us. And bizarrely, the Obama 175 00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 3: administration got very angry with them, withhold weapons from them, 176 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:31,839 Speaker 3: put pressure on them because they didn't like that that 177 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,840 Speaker 3: that the current Egyptian government was standing up to the 178 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 3: Muslim Brotherhood. And if you fast forward to the Biden administration, 179 00:10:38,559 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 3: the Biden administration basically restored the old Obama policies of 180 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:48,000 Speaker 3: embracing the Muslim Brotherhood. And and not only that, they 181 00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 3: sent hundreds of millions of dollars maybe even billions of 182 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:55,640 Speaker 3: dollars UH to Gaza, knowing that Gaza was controlled by 183 00:10:55,720 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 3: Hamas and knowing that it would go directly into the 184 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:58,679 Speaker 3: hands of Hamas. 185 00:10:59,120 --> 00:10:59,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that. 186 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: Is when I look at this. And then you go 187 00:11:02,360 --> 00:11:05,200 Speaker 1: back and you say, okay, all this is happening. You 188 00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:08,319 Speaker 1: announced that you're doing this bill several weeks ago, in fact, 189 00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:11,080 Speaker 1: you announced it on AX and I remember in that 190 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 1: post that you said you were introducing a modernized version 191 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:15,280 Speaker 1: of your bill. 192 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,080 Speaker 2: Explain exactly what that means. 193 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: How is this one different, and what changes were made 194 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:25,199 Speaker 1: and why they're so important? And could this help this 195 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 1: possibly become something that is bipartisan or is there no 196 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: way that's going to happen. 197 00:11:29,440 --> 00:11:34,400 Speaker 3: Well, it might, and actually it is bipartisan right now 198 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,200 Speaker 3: in the House. So I've introduced the bill in the 199 00:11:38,240 --> 00:11:41,440 Speaker 3: Senate and I have a total of five senators on 200 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:43,320 Speaker 3: my bill right now. 201 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:44,400 Speaker 4: They're all Republican. 202 00:11:44,720 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 3: I am trying to convince a Democrat senator to support it. 203 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 3: In the House, the same bill is being led by 204 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,280 Speaker 3: two representatives from Florida, Mario Diaz Billard, a Republican, a 205 00:11:55,280 --> 00:11:58,719 Speaker 3: fellow Cuban American, a good friend, and Jared Moskovitz. And 206 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:01,200 Speaker 3: Jared is a Democrat. So in the House we have 207 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:09,800 Speaker 3: Democrat supporters bipartisan support. That is encouraging. But you asked 208 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,480 Speaker 3: how we modernize the bill in the past, both in 209 00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,640 Speaker 3: Congress and in the Trump forty five White House. We 210 00:12:17,720 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 3: took a top down approach to listing the entire Brotherhood, 211 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,199 Speaker 3: and the idea was to designate the global Muslim Brotherhood 212 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 3: and then all of its branches. Now, the challenge and 213 00:12:28,679 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 3: some of the pushback we got is that not every 214 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:36,480 Speaker 3: one of the Brotherhood branches is currently violent, and so 215 00:12:36,600 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 3: each of the branches doesn't necessarily meet the criteria for designation, 216 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 3: and that was an argument critics used to try to 217 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:48,240 Speaker 3: block the designation. This new bill instead uses a bottoms 218 00:12:48,320 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 3: up approach. We start by identifying all the branches that 219 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 3: the Muslim Brotherhood supports that are terrorist groups or that 220 00:12:57,640 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 3: commit terrorism, and then we designate the entire Brotherhood for 221 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,600 Speaker 3: that support. In other words, we build up with what 222 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:09,440 Speaker 3: is explicitly and indisputably terrorist, and then we designate the 223 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 3: Brotherhood as a whole for supporting those terrorist groups. 224 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:18,560 Speaker 1: So do you think this approach will actually work moving forward? 225 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: Is this something that you say is going to be 226 00:13:21,080 --> 00:13:24,480 Speaker 1: more palatable for people and also easier sale. 227 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:26,520 Speaker 4: Well, look, I think it could work. 228 00:13:27,679 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 3: We use the exact same approach during the Trump forty 229 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:36,160 Speaker 3: five administration to list Iran's Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corp. That 230 00:13:36,240 --> 00:13:41,360 Speaker 3: the IRGC in twenty seventeen, and Congress mandated that action 231 00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 3: through legislation, and then the Treasury Department implemented our mandate 232 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:50,640 Speaker 3: by listing the IRGC for supporting one of its branches, 233 00:13:50,679 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 3: the IRGC Quood's Force, which is undoubtedly a terrorist organization. 234 00:13:56,640 --> 00:13:57,600 Speaker 4: So it worked. 235 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 3: And to get technical for sex, there are three different 236 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 3: ways to list terrorist groups. Congress can do it through 237 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,560 Speaker 3: the Anti Terrorism Act of nineteen eighty seven, which is 238 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,680 Speaker 3: how the PLO is listed. The State Department can do 239 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 3: it by labeling a group as a foreign Terrorist organization, 240 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 3: or the Treasury Department can do it by labeling a 241 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:24,840 Speaker 3: group what is called a specially designated Global Terrorist. My 242 00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:28,720 Speaker 3: bill does all three, and so it's belts and suspenders 243 00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 3: on the global Muslim Brotherhood. And that results in immediate 244 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 3: and devastating sanctions, and it gives law enforcement greater tools 245 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:42,880 Speaker 3: to go after not just the Muslim Brotherhood, but those 246 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 3: who are financially supporting it. Now you asked, can it happen? 247 00:14:48,280 --> 00:14:52,040 Speaker 3: It can? We have one Democrat in the House. I'm 248 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,520 Speaker 3: hoping we will get one or more Democrats in the Senate. 249 00:14:54,560 --> 00:14:58,600 Speaker 3: We don't right now. I've had conversations today with Democrats 250 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:02,680 Speaker 3: trying to get them on board. There are two paths 251 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,800 Speaker 3: for this to go forward. One, I think it would 252 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 3: make a very good sense for us to vote on 253 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 3: it on the Senate floor, for John Thune to bring 254 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 3: it up and make senators vote. Most of the Democrats 255 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 3: are going to vote no, because, for whatever reason, the 256 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 3: Democrat ideology. These are the same Democrats that are terrified 257 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:26,080 Speaker 3: to announce the anti Israel antisemitic protests on campuses. These 258 00:15:26,080 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 3: are the same Democrats that are really frightened of the 259 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 3: pro Hamas wing of their party, and the pro Hamas wing, 260 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 3: as we talked about, Hamas is explicitly an arm of 261 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:38,120 Speaker 3: the Muslim brotherhood. So most of the Democrats would be 262 00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 3: a no. I think it'd be valuable to get them 263 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 3: on record, force them to vote. But I'll tell you 264 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:46,400 Speaker 3: what I think the real path the success will be 265 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,680 Speaker 3: is that we're going to lead the fight in the Senate. 266 00:15:49,400 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 3: I hope we tee this up for a vote, and 267 00:15:53,120 --> 00:15:56,800 Speaker 3: if the Democrats block it, which in all likelihood they will, 268 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 3: they have. 269 00:15:57,560 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 4: For a decade. 270 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 3: What I think is going to have and is I 271 00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 3: think the President is going to do this through an 272 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 3: executive order and I'm certainly urging President Trump to designate 273 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 3: the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization through an executive order, 274 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,920 Speaker 3: and I think the fight that I'm leading in the 275 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,840 Speaker 3: Senate helps build momentum for the President to step in 276 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:20,160 Speaker 3: and make this designation. 277 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:21,400 Speaker 4: I think it's going to happen. I think we're going 278 00:16:21,440 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 4: to see it happen this term. 279 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:25,440 Speaker 1: Final question on this for people that are listening, This 280 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:26,680 Speaker 1: is why I love doing the show. 281 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:29,480 Speaker 2: People want to get involved. What can they do? 282 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: Should they be calling their Congress and their centaters, and 283 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 1: should they be reaching out to the White House as well? 284 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,280 Speaker 3: Yes, yes, yes, absolutely speak out. Call your senator, call 285 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:43,560 Speaker 3: your house member, tell them to support my legislation designating 286 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:48,080 Speaker 3: the Muslim Brotherhood as a terrorist organization. Get on social media, 287 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 3: speak out, use your voice, and by the way, share 288 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,840 Speaker 3: this podcast. This podcast lays out all the facts and 289 00:16:53,880 --> 00:16:56,680 Speaker 3: so if you want people to know about this, share 290 00:16:56,720 --> 00:16:59,040 Speaker 3: this podcast with others so that they can know the 291 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 3: facts and build momentum. Because really, what we're trying to 292 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:05,960 Speaker 3: do through this fight is build momentum that will encourage 293 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:09,400 Speaker 3: the White House to designate the Muslim Brotherhood, which would 294 00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:12,040 Speaker 3: be a big, big deal if and when we get 295 00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:12,400 Speaker 3: this done. 296 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:14,639 Speaker 1: Yeah, we're going to keep you updated on this because 297 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,640 Speaker 1: I mean this could be something that could take obviously 298 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,120 Speaker 1: weeks or months, right, I mean that's a realistic timeline, absolutely, 299 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:22,640 Speaker 1: So we'll keep you update on it. But I love 300 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:24,280 Speaker 1: that we got to start with this. This is something 301 00:17:24,320 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 1: you may hear nowhere else. Make sure you share the podcast. 302 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:27,480 Speaker 3: All right. 303 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:29,240 Speaker 1: I want to move on to this other issue center, 304 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:33,159 Speaker 1: and that is the IRAS is now saying churches can 305 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:36,720 Speaker 1: endorse candidates. I want to be clear. When I first 306 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: saw this headline, I'm like, hold on. Many on the 307 00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:42,400 Speaker 1: Democrat side have been doing this. 308 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:45,840 Speaker 3: For years, and I know it's a complete double standard. 309 00:17:46,160 --> 00:17:51,200 Speaker 3: You see Democrats that they go and campaign in frequently 310 00:17:51,240 --> 00:17:57,080 Speaker 3: African American churches and pastors and endorse Democrats openly and brazenly. 311 00:17:57,119 --> 00:17:58,320 Speaker 4: They have for a long time. 312 00:17:59,119 --> 00:18:03,080 Speaker 3: Nevertheless, that there is a provision of the United States Code. 313 00:18:03,080 --> 00:18:06,240 Speaker 3: It's known as the Johnson Amendment, and it is part 314 00:18:06,280 --> 00:18:09,199 Speaker 3: of of twenty six USC. Section five oh one c 315 00:18:09,359 --> 00:18:13,920 Speaker 3: three that threatens to strip nonprofits of their tax exempt 316 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 3: status should they quote participate in or intervene in any 317 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:26,840 Speaker 3: political campaign. And for many years, pastors and churches particularly 318 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:30,800 Speaker 3: those right of center, have been afraid to be explicit 319 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:36,960 Speaker 3: about politics because the consequence they feared was that was 320 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:39,760 Speaker 3: that their tax exempt status would be stripped away. Now, 321 00:18:40,720 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 3: from the day the Johnson Amendment was passed, no church 322 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 3: has ever had its tax exempt status stripped for speaking 323 00:18:47,640 --> 00:18:52,560 Speaker 3: out under about politics. But nonetheless, a lot of pastors 324 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 3: self censor and are afraid to say say their own 325 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:01,320 Speaker 3: views about about what they think the Bible teaches about 326 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:07,040 Speaker 3: issues of public policy, about issues of politics. And just 327 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,720 Speaker 3: last week on July seventh, the IRS agreed in a 328 00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:15,320 Speaker 3: court filing that churches can now endorse political candidates at 329 00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:19,879 Speaker 3: the pulpit, and the IRS created an exception to the 330 00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 3: Johnson Amendment. The IRS reasoned that churches endorsing political candidates 331 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:33,040 Speaker 3: resembles a family discussion concerning candidates, and therefore communications from 332 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:37,240 Speaker 3: houses of worship to its congregation on matters of faith 333 00:19:37,359 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 3: involving electoral politics do not run a foul of the 334 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:41,880 Speaker 3: Johnson Amendment. 335 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: This is one of those moments where I actually think 336 00:19:45,240 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 1: this is going to just be massive to level the 337 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: playing field, as you mentioned a moment ago, because it's 338 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,960 Speaker 1: been happening on the left for so long and there 339 00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:55,480 Speaker 1: have been a lot of, like you said, pastors, pastors 340 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,639 Speaker 1: that I know personally that we're afraid to talk about 341 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,280 Speaker 1: politics or even the election day outside of like hey, 342 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: remember to vote, a registered to vote, but like not 343 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: getting into the issues, not getting into the candidates. And 344 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 1: this is I think great that many Christians, in many churches, 345 00:20:11,240 --> 00:20:13,040 Speaker 1: many pastors are now going to be freed up to 346 00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: actually preach what they believe the Bible says about biblical 347 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: issues that are in the political realm. Abortion is a 348 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 1: great example of that. 349 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, and and and this was teed up. This came 350 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:28,680 Speaker 3: through litigation, and it was a lawsuit National Religious Broadcasters 351 00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:32,439 Speaker 3: versus long Billy long As is the commissioner of the 352 00:20:32,440 --> 00:20:36,920 Speaker 3: i r S and National Religious Broadcasters sued the i 353 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:39,560 Speaker 3: r S and and they argue that the Johnson Amendment 354 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 3: violated the church's First Amendment rights. And they filed the 355 00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:46,440 Speaker 3: case in the Eastern District of Texas. They were before 356 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:51,000 Speaker 3: a Judge Cam Barker, who I helped select. 357 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:51,720 Speaker 4: To be on the bench. 358 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:58,040 Speaker 3: He's a strong principled conservative and a constitutionalist. And they 359 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:02,879 Speaker 3: were litigating before Judge Barker in Texas, and the IRS 360 00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 3: decided to settle this matter, and the IRS settled this matter. 361 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 3: And this is one of the advantages of winning elections. 362 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 3: When you win elections, you control the executive branch. And 363 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,240 Speaker 3: when you control the executive branch, you can decide to 364 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,840 Speaker 3: settle litigation. And so the IRS signed a joint consent 365 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 3: judgment that expressly stipulates churches may endorse candidates or promote 366 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,400 Speaker 3: political issues without risking their taxes m status. And here's 367 00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,719 Speaker 3: what the Irs said. When churches address political matters quote 368 00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:39,960 Speaker 3: through the lens of religious faith, it neither participates nor 369 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 3: intervenes in a political campaign. Remember those are the words 370 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,120 Speaker 3: of the Johnson Amendment. Participate or intervene in a political 371 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 3: campaign within the ordinary meaning of those words, rather than 372 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,400 Speaker 3: take part or interfere with the course of a campaign. 373 00:21:55,200 --> 00:22:01,240 Speaker 3: Churches that endorse political candidates simply engage in a family discussion. Therefore, 374 00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:05,359 Speaker 3: when properly interpreted, communications from a house of worship to 375 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 3: its congregation on matters of faith involving electoral politics quote, 376 00:22:11,320 --> 00:22:14,919 Speaker 3: do not run a foul of the Johnson Amendment. That 377 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:18,040 Speaker 3: is a big deal, and it will free up the 378 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:22,080 Speaker 3: ability for for religious leaders, for pastors to to speak 379 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,480 Speaker 3: their heart and to speak the truth to the congregation 380 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:29,000 Speaker 3: about what they believe the Bible teaches and and and 381 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:32,359 Speaker 3: and how that impacts issues in public policy. This is 382 00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 3: a major major change. 383 00:22:34,359 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 2: Yeah. 384 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,280 Speaker 1: It also going to have a huge impact on local elections. 385 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,119 Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the biggest outcomes that 386 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:42,879 Speaker 1: could be positive from this, is that pastors really are 387 00:22:42,880 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: able to talk about who they believe is best for 388 00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,960 Speaker 1: their cities, uh and for their community and bring it 389 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:50,240 Speaker 1: back to the local aspect of it. And it'll be 390 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,400 Speaker 1: well see how this plays out as well. 391 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:54,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, Ben, And let me tell you a story from 392 00:22:55,080 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 3: from a number of years ago. A number of years ago, 393 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:04,879 Speaker 3: the the huge Houston mayor who was a left wing Democrat, 394 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:12,040 Speaker 3: and the Houston City attorney subpoenaed the sermon notes for 395 00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 3: five pastors in Houston. And these were pastors in Houston 396 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 3: who were preaching on marriage and preaching on same sex marriage. 397 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 3: And the left wing Democrat mayor did not like what 398 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 3: these pastors were preaching about marriage and biblical marriage, and 399 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:30,719 Speaker 3: so the city decided we're going to subpoena your sermon 400 00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:35,479 Speaker 3: notes and go after you. And when that happened, I 401 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 3: was very. 402 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 4: Dismayed about that. 403 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 3: I've spent most of my adult life fighting to defend 404 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,560 Speaker 3: religious liberty, and the idea of the city going. 405 00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 4: After pastors was horrific. 406 00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,200 Speaker 3: And so I picked up the phone and I called 407 00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:50,119 Speaker 3: my pastor and I called him. I said, Pastor, have 408 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,880 Speaker 3: you seen what's happened with a subpoena to the five 409 00:23:52,920 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 3: pastors in Houston? And he said, oh, yeah, I've definitely 410 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,520 Speaker 3: seen it. He said, I've been praying about it all morning. 411 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 3: And I said, well, look, I'm praying about it as well, 412 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,719 Speaker 3: and I'm very dismayed. I want us to stand up 413 00:24:06,760 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 3: and fight it. And I told him, I said, listen. 414 00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 4: I want to organize a rally. 415 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,680 Speaker 3: I want to bring pastors together to speak out against this, 416 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,160 Speaker 3: to defend the religious liberty of pastors in our hometown. 417 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 3: And I said, I'd like to have a rally of 418 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:28,960 Speaker 3: pastors tomorrow, Thursday at eleven am. And I was calling 419 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 3: to see would you be willing to host that rally 420 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 3: at the church. And then my pastor begins laughing and 421 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 3: he says, ted, you know, the Bible tells us that 422 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,840 Speaker 3: God has ordered our steps. 423 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:44,560 Speaker 4: Long before we have any awareness of it. 424 00:24:46,080 --> 00:24:49,879 Speaker 3: My pastor said, a month ago, God laid on my 425 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,200 Speaker 3: heart to pray for our city. 426 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:53,040 Speaker 4: He said. 427 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,439 Speaker 3: A month ago, I reached out to pastors across the 428 00:24:55,480 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 3: city and invited them to come to my office to 429 00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 3: pray for the city of Houston. He said, I've got 430 00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:08,840 Speaker 3: fifty pastors coming to my office tomorrow Thursday at ten am. 431 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 2: That's incredible. 432 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,280 Speaker 3: And we both just kind of stopped. And I don't 433 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 3: know if you ever heard the phrase of godwink, but 434 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 3: it kind of kind of felt like, you know, God 435 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:21,520 Speaker 3: was winking at us then. And so the next day 436 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 3: I arrived at his office at ten am, I joined 437 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,439 Speaker 3: the pastors. We spent an hour on our knees praying 438 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,960 Speaker 3: for a city, and then we went out in a rally. 439 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,280 Speaker 3: And it was fantastic. If you look at you had 440 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:38,560 Speaker 3: pastors across denominations. You had pastors across racial lines of 441 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:44,960 Speaker 3: white pastors, Black pastors, Hispanic pastors, Asian pastors. Heck, you 442 00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:48,159 Speaker 3: even had first Baptists and second Baptist and you know 443 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 3: well that that is not easy. But they were there 444 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 3: and we had complete unity. And one of the things 445 00:25:56,200 --> 00:26:02,520 Speaker 3: I said at that rally, I said, Caesar has no 446 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:08,240 Speaker 3: jurisdiction over the pulpit. And when usubpoena one pastor. You 447 00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 3: subpoena every pastor, and I'll tell you, Ben, it was amazing. 448 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,760 Speaker 3: There was so much light and heat that came from 449 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:20,360 Speaker 3: that press conference. It drove enormous attention and drove enormous 450 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,840 Speaker 3: coverage in the news and in the media that within 451 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,440 Speaker 3: twenty four hours, the city of Houston withdrew it subpoenas 452 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:31,360 Speaker 3: and just surrendered. That was the power of pastors standing 453 00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:35,639 Speaker 3: up saying we will not submit, and it made a 454 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:37,199 Speaker 3: real difference in the city of Houston. 455 00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:41,200 Speaker 1: Finally, Sender, I want to move to another issue, and 456 00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:44,760 Speaker 1: it is really exploited over the last twenty four hours, 457 00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 1: and that is new information that we now have on 458 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,760 Speaker 1: Biden's use of the auto pen. It is a scandal 459 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,040 Speaker 1: that I don't think people understand just how big it 460 00:26:57,119 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: is and what has now been at mass to when 461 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 1: it comes the autopen usage and Joe Biden maybe not 462 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: knowing it was being used at all. 463 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:06,040 Speaker 4: Well. 464 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 3: So The New York Times on July thirteenth wrote a 465 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 3: major story that says Biden says he made the clemency 466 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 3: decisions that were recorded with autopen, and you and I 467 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 3: talked about in an earlier podcast that the Department of 468 00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 3: Justice has an opinion that it issued a number of 469 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:25,320 Speaker 3: years ago the Office Legal Counsel about whether you can 470 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:29,600 Speaker 3: use an autopen for presidential signatures, whether that's a presidential 471 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 3: signature on an executive order, a presidential signature on a 472 00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,119 Speaker 3: law that is being signed into law, or a presidential 473 00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,320 Speaker 3: signature on a pardon. And what the Department of Justice 474 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:44,560 Speaker 3: has concluded is that you can use an autopen for 475 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,240 Speaker 3: any of those. But the test is the authority is 476 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:51,160 Speaker 3: the president's and the presidents alone, So the president cannot 477 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:58,199 Speaker 3: delegate that authority to anyone else. The president has to 478 00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:00,600 Speaker 3: make the decision. And what the Department of Justice explained, 479 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 3: and this was years ago, is that the operative legal 480 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,399 Speaker 3: test is did the president make the individual determination to 481 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,040 Speaker 3: sign the executive order, to sign the specific piece of 482 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 3: legislation to grant the pardon? And if the president made 483 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 3: that individualized determination, then you can use an autopen to 484 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,160 Speaker 3: reflect that, But the president has to be the decider. 485 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,640 Speaker 4: And so that's the legal standard. But what the New. 486 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:40,000 Speaker 3: York Times reported was, quote, mister Biden did not individually 487 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:44,640 Speaker 3: approve each name for the categorical pardons that applied to 488 00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:50,960 Speaker 3: large numbers of people. He and AIDS confirmed, rather, after 489 00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 3: extensive discussion of different possible criteria, he signed off on 490 00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,480 Speaker 3: the standards he wanted to be used to determine which 491 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,960 Speaker 3: convicts would qualify for a reduction and sentence. Even after 492 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,640 Speaker 3: mister Biden made that decision, one former AID said, the 493 00:29:07,680 --> 00:29:12,320 Speaker 3: Bureau of Prisons kept providing additional information about specific inmates, 494 00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:17,560 Speaker 3: resulting in small changes to the list. Rather than ask 495 00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:21,400 Speaker 3: mister Biden to keep signing revised versions, his staff waited 496 00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:25,520 Speaker 3: and then ran the final version through the autopen, which 497 00:29:25,640 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 3: they saw as a routine procedure. The AID said that 498 00:29:29,640 --> 00:29:33,800 Speaker 3: is stunning because under the Department of Justice guidance, those 499 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 3: pardons aren't valid. If the President didn't decide I am 500 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:44,080 Speaker 3: going to pardon Ben Ferguson. If he didn't know that, 501 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,719 Speaker 3: that would not be sufficient. And the New York Times 502 00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 3: the consequence of this listen. I think the Trump White 503 00:29:52,080 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 3: House needs to go through the records and look they 504 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:56,360 Speaker 3: have the records because they're now in charge of the 505 00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,760 Speaker 3: White House, and examine what specifically has a paper trail 506 00:30:00,280 --> 00:30:05,120 Speaker 3: that shows Biden signed off on the specific action, and 507 00:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 3: those that that there is no paper trail, that there 508 00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:10,000 Speaker 3: is no evidence in the New York Times is reporting 509 00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,360 Speaker 3: they're admitting, Oh yeah, they're broad categories. He didn't know 510 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 3: about it all. He didn't know the specific people. Those 511 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:17,960 Speaker 3: are null and void. Those have no legal force. And 512 00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,720 Speaker 3: my recommendation to Pambondi in the Department of Justice is 513 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 3: they should look specifically at the most vulnerable and and 514 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:31,960 Speaker 3: and devise and implement a legal challenge to challenge these 515 00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 3: and to make clear that an unelected aid running an 516 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 3: auto pen does not have the power to grant a 517 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:41,200 Speaker 3: pardon under the United States Constitution. 518 00:30:41,760 --> 00:30:45,280 Speaker 1: So, now that we have this information, the big question 519 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: is when do these pardons, what happens next, how do 520 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 1: you go about undoing this? 521 00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:53,719 Speaker 2: And how big of a legal fight is that going 522 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: to be? 523 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,360 Speaker 3: Well, look, it's going to be a termination number one 524 00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:59,600 Speaker 3: of the White House and the White House Council assessing 525 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:03,040 Speaker 3: what are the record show? What records did they keep 526 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,880 Speaker 3: of Biden's signing off. We know that he personally signed 527 00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:09,480 Speaker 3: the pardon for Hunter Biden, so that one he knew 528 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:10,960 Speaker 3: about and he did so. 529 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 2: So that one is is that also very telling? 530 00:31:14,040 --> 00:31:14,360 Speaker 4: Yes? 531 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,520 Speaker 1: And is that going to be used in many ways 532 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,120 Speaker 1: as an example of like dud he had no idea 533 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,160 Speaker 1: what was going on over here. The ones he did 534 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 1: know about, he knew, he damned it well better signed 535 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: them himself. His son is a great example of that. 536 00:31:26,240 --> 00:31:28,960 Speaker 1: Does that actually hurt the argument for Biden? All the 537 00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:29,480 Speaker 1: others are. 538 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 3: Valid potentially, although they are arguing that they discussed it 539 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:35,840 Speaker 3: with him and he approved, and so some of the 540 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:40,480 Speaker 3: high profile ones, like you look at Anthony Fauci who 541 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,560 Speaker 3: was pardoned, they're maintaining they discussed it with Biden and 542 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 3: Biden said he wanted to he wanted to pardon him. 543 00:31:49,000 --> 00:31:51,840 Speaker 3: If that's true, if he made the decision and directed 544 00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:54,600 Speaker 3: them to sign a pardon, then under the Department of 545 00:31:54,760 --> 00:32:01,480 Speaker 3: Justice's OLC memorandum, that is valid. The question is are 546 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:03,320 Speaker 3: there ones, And according to the New York Times, there 547 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 3: are a lot that Biden did not know and did 548 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,880 Speaker 3: not approve the specific individual receiving the pardon, And if 549 00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:14,880 Speaker 3: he didn't know and didn't approve, then it's not a 550 00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 3: valid part. 551 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: So when you look at the timeline of this moving forward, 552 00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:20,320 Speaker 1: and some of these could be very significant, one that 553 00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: comes to mind is doctor Anthony Fauci, for example, could 554 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,200 Speaker 1: this could I mean open up a whole lot of 555 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,080 Speaker 1: can of worms on a lot of different issues. 556 00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 4: It could. It depends what so what I believe. 557 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 3: I believe the White House should go through systematically through 558 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:39,880 Speaker 3: the records and see what the records demonstrate, and the 559 00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,200 Speaker 3: Department of Justice should pick starting with a test case 560 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:47,920 Speaker 3: to go challenge this the look for a fact pattern 561 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 3: in which there is the clearest absence of any approval 562 00:32:52,480 --> 00:32:58,040 Speaker 3: from from the actual president and go challenge those in particular. 563 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 1: It's going to be interesting. We're to cover all of it. 564 00:33:00,920 --> 00:33:04,560 Speaker 1: Don't forget. We do the show Monday, Wednesday and Friday. 565 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,280 Speaker 1: Hit that subscriber auto download button and make sure you 566 00:33:08,280 --> 00:33:10,480 Speaker 1: don't miss as we continue to keep updated on these 567 00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: exact issues moving forward. 568 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 2: The Senator and I will see you back here on 569 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 2: Friday morning.