Speaker 1: My name is Alex, and my pronouns are he him his.
Speaker 1: No be al no alright, no, be alright forever, no
Speaker 1: be al alright, no, be alright forever. I was raised
Speaker 1: in a very very conservative religion, in a very very
Speaker 1: conservative state, even in a very conservative community. I think
Speaker 1: that the only saving grace that I had was probably
Speaker 1: that I had two parents who raised us to follow
Speaker 1: our heart and be inclusive and love everybody. And they
Speaker 1: raised us to know the difference between what you're being
Speaker 1: told is right and what actually feels right in your heart.
Speaker 1: And that really is the preface for my experience growing up,
Speaker 1: or I guess unlearning and relearning the things that I
Speaker 1: thought I knew, but now I'm continuing to learn about
Speaker 1: the lgbt Q plus community. So being raised in Arizona
Speaker 1: in a very very conservative religion, it was gnarly like
Speaker 1: you really were raised to believe that there was only
Speaker 1: two genders, and there's only one sexuality, which is straight,
Speaker 1: and you you know, if it's if you're a man,
Speaker 1: you love a woman, if you're a woman, you love
Speaker 1: a man, and there's no other options if you want to,
Speaker 1: you know, receive exaltation or you know, go to paradise
Speaker 1: when you die, and as a kid, you know you're
Speaker 1: you're raised to believe whatever the people above you are
Speaker 1: telling you. It wasn't until the two thousand and eight
Speaker 1: election where there was Proposition eight for California Proposition one
Speaker 1: O two for Arizona. At the time, I was living
Speaker 1: in Arizona, So Proposition one O two in Arizona was
Speaker 1: a proposition that was designed to ban gay marriage in
Speaker 1: the state of Arizona. And as you can tell, from
Speaker 1: a red conservative state that is predominantly very conservative, that
Speaker 1: propos aition was passed. But I remembered in that lobbying
Speaker 1: period for the two thousand eight election, I remember, you know,
Speaker 1: church groups. I remember my friends like going out and
Speaker 1: holding signs that say yes on one oh two, which
Speaker 1: I guess when you're a kid, you just read yes
Speaker 1: on one oh two. But reality is, the hate that
Speaker 1: that sign could carry was something that I couldn't even
Speaker 1: fathom as a twelve year old kid. My parents we
Speaker 1: didn't partake in any of those things. My parents knew
Speaker 1: what the deal was and so we didn't partake in
Speaker 1: it at all. I actually remember my parents tricked us.
Speaker 1: This is a complete side note my parents tricked us
Speaker 1: took us to the LLL cool J concert. This is
Speaker 1: how cool my parents are. They took us to the
Speaker 1: L cool J concert, but they wanted to surprise us,
Speaker 1: so they told us that we had to go. They
Speaker 1: were going to drop us off to go and hold
Speaker 1: the signs for yes on one O two. We were
Speaker 1: so bummed, like we were the most bummed kids in
Speaker 1: the world. And then we get in the car and
Speaker 1: they started driving towards the Arizona County Fair and we
Speaker 1: were like, wait a second, what's going out here? And
Speaker 1: they totally tricked us. We went out to ll cool
Speaker 1: J concert. Like, honestly, Martin and Heather Iono fucking coolest
Speaker 1: parents in the world. So that was really my first
Speaker 1: experience in terms of recognizing that there was an argument
Speaker 1: for or against people who loved the way that they
Speaker 1: felt their heart needed to love or be the person
Speaker 1: that their heart tells them they need to be, or
Speaker 1: that they are not even need to be that they are.
Speaker 1: And then I guess when I moved to Los Angeles,
Speaker 1: my heart started realizing what felt right and what didn't
Speaker 1: feel right. And as I looked back at my friends
Speaker 1: in Arizona who were still throwing around like derogatory terms
Speaker 1: and using the word gay to define anything that wasn't cool,
Speaker 1: like or or that they didn't like that. I started
Speaker 1: feeling in my chest like that's not cool, that's not right,
Speaker 1: that's not inclusive, that's not loving, that's not any of
Speaker 1: the things that my parents taught me to be. And
Speaker 1: I think as soon as that switch flipped for me,
Speaker 1: I immediately shifted into wanting to figure out how I
Speaker 1: can support, how I can help fight for the rights
Speaker 1: of all people, regardless of how they identify themselves. It
Speaker 1: made me immediately turn around and want to figure out
Speaker 1: any possible way that I could support or help fight
Speaker 1: for the rights of the people who are beyond the
Speaker 1: binary of traditional gender norms. So I became an ally
Speaker 1: to the l g B t Q plus community, and
Speaker 1: I met people who immediately just enriched my life's They
Speaker 1: upgraded my life, my view on the world, and just
Speaker 1: my view on life in general. Having fun. I got
Speaker 1: to write on the I Heart float at the New
Speaker 1: York City Pride Parade last year, and it was just
Speaker 1: like the most fun. I mean, you're surrounded by people
Speaker 1: who specialize in loving everybody, including everybody and the amount
Speaker 1: that you can learn in terms of inclusiveness and loving
Speaker 1: people for who they are, however they are, and however
Speaker 1: they choose to love of is something that you won't
Speaker 1: be able to learn anywhere else. And that got me thinking,
Speaker 1: how special would it be if we did an episode
Speaker 1: here on the show where we explore some of this,
Speaker 1: Because I know not everybody has a chance to meet
Speaker 1: or become friends with someone who's trans or non binary
Speaker 1: or gender queer, or maybe they're just not the most
Speaker 1: educated when it comes to the l g B t
Speaker 1: Q plus community. Uh So I wanted to have an
Speaker 1: episode about that. And you might notice that I take
Speaker 1: quite a bit of a backseat on this one because
Speaker 1: as a straight cis gender man, cis gender meaning that
Speaker 1: my gender identity matches what I was assigned at birth.
Speaker 1: This isn't my story to tell. No, No, what is up? Friends,
Speaker 1: It's alex IONO here. This is let's get into it.
Speaker 1: It is a podcast that I created where I can
Speaker 1: just talk about life and what it's like to be
Speaker 1: twenty four living in today's world. Right now, we are
Speaker 1: all in our own respective homes, just quarantining and practicing
Speaker 1: self this and seeing social distancing, self distancing. I'm losing
Speaker 1: my mind right now at this point. But when I
Speaker 1: say we, I have two amazing, amazing guests. You know
Speaker 1: that I always bring on friends, either their new friends
Speaker 1: or they are friends I've had for a while to
Speaker 1: talk about topics that they can give better insight on. Uh.
Speaker 1: And one of them is one of my very very
Speaker 1: close friends, Ladies and gentlemen, the one and only the
Speaker 1: Queen of Sugar, your local Beyonce, my personal bond me,
Speaker 1: Mila jam How are you love? Hi? Everybody? I am
Speaker 1: making do I'm doing all right. I'm hanging tight, I'm
Speaker 1: looking right and I'm feeling all right. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: she got the rhyme. She got the rhymes today. Uh.
Speaker 1: Mila was the star of my music video for her,
Speaker 1: which was a project that I wanted to help shine
Speaker 1: some light uh and and and really step out as
Speaker 1: an an ally for the l g B t Q
Speaker 1: plus community. Uh And since then, she's just been my
Speaker 1: sweet bond me and uh And I've been loving seeing
Speaker 1: all of the music and and all of the music
Speaker 1: videos and everything, all of the art that you're creating.
Speaker 1: I'm so happy that you're here, but you are not
Speaker 1: You're not the only guest that I have here. I
Speaker 1: also have a new friend. I have not met this
Speaker 1: person yet, but I'm so happy to meet them right
Speaker 1: here on this podcast. Or while they are what is
Speaker 1: this called quarantining, Geez, Louise, I'm losing my mind. While
Speaker 1: they're quarantining in their own home, I have Bethany Myers.
Speaker 1: Bethany is the founder and CEO of The Become Project
Speaker 1: and a body neutral advocate. Bethany has Become Project is
Speaker 1: a fitness based movement program that is rooted in body neutrality.
Speaker 1: They've been with their partner Nico Tortorella for thirteen years,
Speaker 1: and together they host the podcast The Love Bomb, where
Speaker 1: they discuss how they make their queer polyamorous relationship work. Bethany,
Speaker 1: how are you hi? I'm you know, I'm not my best,
Speaker 1: I'm not my worst. I'm just day by day. It
Speaker 1: is such an it is such an interesting time. I
Speaker 1: just saw you posted. Uh, you posted a really sweet
Speaker 1: message from Twitter onto your Instagram account for the Become
Speaker 1: Project that just kind of references the anxiety that people
Speaker 1: may be feeling. Uh. And I just want to say
Speaker 1: I really appreciate that because I have not been able
Speaker 1: to sleep through the night since this quarantine started, and
Speaker 1: so having that relatability to know that I'm not only
Speaker 1: the only one who's dealing with the anxiety that is
Speaker 1: coming with this pandemic, it meant a lot to me.
Speaker 1: So I just wanted to say thank you before we
Speaker 1: get into all of this. But I really love what
Speaker 1: you're doing the more research that I've done for the
Speaker 1: Become project, and we're gonna talk a lot more about that,
Speaker 1: but before we do that, I want to talk about
Speaker 1: what today's episode is about and why I have my
Speaker 1: two beautiful guests with me today. We are going to
Speaker 1: talk about gender identity. As I mentioned before, I am
Speaker 1: a very very very proud ally to the l g
Speaker 1: b t Q plus community. I love the courage that
Speaker 1: I see throughout the community, and I want to partake
Speaker 1: as much as I can wherever I can, however I
Speaker 1: can to help build up the fight for equality, equal rights,
Speaker 1: equal pay, equal opportunity for UM for everybody, and especially
Speaker 1: in today's episode, highlighting UM that equal opportunity that I
Speaker 1: fight for for the l g B t Q plus community.
Speaker 1: So I felt like it is very very appropriate and
Speaker 1: only right if we each take our own turns to
Speaker 1: introduce ourselves and our our pronouns and kind of just
Speaker 1: get a little comfortable with all of this. Yeah sounds good, Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it. I am your local biance, Mila Jam everybody,
Speaker 1: what's good? I am she her hers, and I hope
Speaker 1: that you're all doing amazing today. Beautiful Bethany, my name
Speaker 1: is Bethany Myers. My pronouns are they them, and they
Speaker 1: do a ton of work in the fitness space. Um,
Speaker 1: but really surrounding body neutrality and how do we make
Speaker 1: movement about giving time to ourselves instead of punishing ourselves.
Speaker 1: And I'm super excited to be here today, especially having
Speaker 1: gender talks because I love to talk about gender. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: and I'm alex Iono. I use the pronouns he him
Speaker 1: and his and uh And I a very very grateful
Speaker 1: that I have you two here just to help shine
Speaker 1: more light. I think that for me especially, this is
Speaker 1: a constant unlearning and relearning of things that I maybe
Speaker 1: thought I knew or knew before that are changing and
Speaker 1: ever changing. So I'm very very grateful that you guys
Speaker 1: would both come on this podcast and help educate me more,
Speaker 1: educate the listeners more. I'm just grateful. Overall, we have
Speaker 1: some beautiful, beautiful topics to talk about. UM. The first topic, Bethany,
Speaker 1: you and I are gonna be talking about choosing comfortable labels.
Speaker 1: Then after that, Mila, you and I are gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about seeing the representation and being the representation. And lastly,
Speaker 1: we're going to talk about how sis gender folks like
Speaker 1: me can just be better about furthering the conversation, being
Speaker 1: a better ally to the l g B t Q
Speaker 1: plus community, and getting a little bit more inclusive with
Speaker 1: these topics. Does that sound cool with you guys? Amazing? Perfect?
Speaker 1: Before we get into it, though, I have a question
Speaker 1: that I ask all of my guests, uh, and it
Speaker 1: is a simple question for this week. What have you
Speaker 1: been doing to improve your life? UM? A lot of
Speaker 1: it has been quarantine type stuff with the episodes that
Speaker 1: we've been recording, but I'll give you an example and
Speaker 1: let you guys have some time to think. So this week,
Speaker 1: I'm very very fortunate. I have a Peloton bike that
Speaker 1: I've had for over a year now that I ride
Speaker 1: very very religiously, and this week I wanted to level
Speaker 1: that up, so I actually started P ninety X on
Speaker 1: top of it. So I'm doing two workouts a day,
Speaker 1: eating a ton of food, trying to stay healthy and
Speaker 1: honestly just not lose my mind because I've now been
Speaker 1: in my house for what is three and a half weeks,
Speaker 1: So I am I'm very, very very adamant on getting
Speaker 1: my fitness right and hopefully coming out of this thing
Speaker 1: looking like the Rock or maybe like the Pebble. I
Speaker 1: guess if we're not going to be the complete you know,
Speaker 1: the Dwayne the Rock, Johnson Alex the Pebble, I own no. Um.
Speaker 1: So that is what I've been doing to improve myself
Speaker 1: this week, Mila, you got something for me? Yeah? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I've been working on my memory skills, Like I get
Speaker 1: a lot of side sent to me for auditions, and
Speaker 1: like this is the perfect time for me to start
Speaker 1: like honing my like ability to memorize stuff in short
Speaker 1: periods of time. Audio stuff, Like I love to watch
Speaker 1: video clips like on TikTok and all this stuff and
Speaker 1: then replay them over and over and over again and
Speaker 1: see how like long it takes me to remember the
Speaker 1: like like like learning a song, but like learning the
Speaker 1: words or the dialogue in the scene and then just
Speaker 1: going over a bunch of sides that I get throughout
Speaker 1: my agency and my my agents when they send me stuff.
Speaker 1: And so I feel like when I'm normally running from
Speaker 1: place to place, I never have time to actually like
Speaker 1: just really like dive into like text and like inflections
Speaker 1: and like what am I feeling in this? And how
Speaker 1: do I deliver this to make it sound good? And
Speaker 1: the artists and the musician in me gets all like
Speaker 1: musical about it and everything, and so I have the
Speaker 1: time to do it. And so that's I've just been
Speaker 1: working on memorizing text. I love that. I love that. Really,
Speaker 1: it really is like a great I have never heard
Speaker 1: somebody give me on this show and answer that makes
Speaker 1: me go, damn, I never have even thought about doing.
Speaker 1: You can be the rock and I'm my Angelou. I'm
Speaker 1: just gonna I'm gonna work on I have a feeling
Speaker 1: me that's going to be given us a singers all
Speaker 1: episode long, Bethany, what have you been up to to
Speaker 1: better your life? Well? I will say, you know, this
Speaker 1: is week three of Quarantine. As we're recording this week one,
Speaker 1: I was like energizer bunny person with a plan, like
Speaker 1: you know, just so go go go and here's all
Speaker 1: the things we're gonna do. And then week two it
Speaker 1: was full burnout, I mean just crash, like crying every
Speaker 1: single day, couldn't get anything done, didn't feel motivated at all,
Speaker 1: which is actually kind of a theme that happens in
Speaker 1: my life. I tend to lake burn the candle at
Speaker 1: both ends and then crash. So this week I've really
Speaker 1: i mean, this is like a simple thing, but I'm
Speaker 1: really trying to make a commitment to balance and routine.
Speaker 1: And so it's which has sounded a lot like, you know,
Speaker 1: kind of laying out a schedule for my day and
Speaker 1: starting my morning peacefully as opposed to jumping into work
Speaker 1: right away. I think it's been really helpful just for
Speaker 1: like my overall anxiety and kind of keeping my feet
Speaker 1: on the ground. But yeah, balance and routine are the
Speaker 1: two main things that I'm really trying to work for.
Speaker 1: Simple but very important. That's very important for quarantine life.
Speaker 1: Routine is important. I'll got some y'all got some amazing answers. Uh,
Speaker 1: let's get straight into it. Honestly, Milo, we will be
Speaker 1: with you in just a second. But Bethany first, it's
Speaker 1: you and I one on one, and we're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about labels. So you've said before you do not
Speaker 1: love labels. Um, they do help others understand you, but
Speaker 1: they should not define you in any way, shape or form.
Speaker 1: How did you land on your current labels? Oh that's
Speaker 1: a great question. Um, yeah, I think labels are It's funny.
Speaker 1: There's so much going on with language right now, just
Speaker 1: like as a society. You know, the word of the
Speaker 1: year last year was them, And I think it's really
Speaker 1: helpful right now, specifically looking at it from a queer lens,
Speaker 1: to use labels to help us figure this out, you know,
Speaker 1: and to help us to be able to put words
Speaker 1: to something that we really haven't had words for before.
Speaker 1: But my dream is like to be able to live
Speaker 1: in this world where there aren't labels and we don't
Speaker 1: have to define you know this boy and girl and
Speaker 1: male and female and this or that gay or straight.
Speaker 1: We can just be. I think right now labels for me,
Speaker 1: I mean using non binary. I really love also the
Speaker 1: term gender fluid and gender neutral, just because I love
Speaker 1: the word neutral in general. I use it in so
Speaker 1: many different aspects of life. I love that is there
Speaker 1: a moment that that really like stuck out to you,
Speaker 1: but I think for me it was really it resonated
Speaker 1: with me, you know, the she her pronouns, things that
Speaker 1: were like super female based never really felt quite right.
Speaker 1: And I think being able to give myself sort of
Speaker 1: this genderless space has really opened up just my overall
Speaker 1: perception of the things that I enjoy. So, like a
Speaker 1: really small example would be the last year I started
Speaker 1: growing out my leg hair, which is like something I
Speaker 1: previously never really thought I would do because I'm a
Speaker 1: very very hairy person with like really dark hair. And
Speaker 1: I think that the non binary label actually kind of
Speaker 1: helped me accept that more in in some way, um,
Speaker 1: it was like, well, it doesn't really matter, right, like
Speaker 1: what is male and female, especially specifically for myself, And
Speaker 1: I think it's allowed me to kind of move outside
Speaker 1: of the box of my preconceived notions of you know,
Speaker 1: what I am supposed to be? Are my trained notions, right?
Speaker 1: These societal standards that we've grown up with of how
Speaker 1: we have to look behavior, act, Yeah, yeah, No, I
Speaker 1: mean I definitely agree with you, though. I think that
Speaker 1: societal standards in your situation are absolute lead to constricted
Speaker 1: and and also in the regular life of every human being,
Speaker 1: all across the gender unicorn as I like to use
Speaker 1: that term. I spent some time talking with Aaron Rose
Speaker 1: last year in preparation to to really step out more
Speaker 1: than just supporting, but actually being an outward um vocal
Speaker 1: ally for the lgbt Q plus community and learning that
Speaker 1: societal standards are not only constricting for people who don't
Speaker 1: fall within the traditional gender model, but for those of
Speaker 1: us who do. But before we get more into that,
Speaker 1: I wanna I want to discuss kind of your journey
Speaker 1: into finding the labels or deciding the labels that you
Speaker 1: wanted to go by, And for those who may be
Speaker 1: wondering what the differences between trans and non binary and
Speaker 1: gay and straight and CIS gender are. When we talk
Speaker 1: about someone who's gender nonconforming or non binary or trans
Speaker 1: or CIS or cis gender, we're talking about gender identity.
Speaker 1: That is who you are. When we talk about gay
Speaker 1: or lesbian or straight, we're actually talking about who a
Speaker 1: person is attracted to. What was your what was your
Speaker 1: process going through life that got you to where you
Speaker 1: are today, and how much more comfortable you are with
Speaker 1: the labels and with your like you're saying everything from
Speaker 1: using pronouns like they in them to even just leaving
Speaker 1: your leg hairs to grow and be the beautiful body
Speaker 1: that you you know that God gave you. Yeah, well
Speaker 1: it was certainly a slow burn, to say the least.
Speaker 1: I was raised in a very very religious setting, almost
Speaker 1: like a bit verging on cultish, a ton of rules,
Speaker 1: a ton of restrictions, a lot of like you can
Speaker 1: go here, you cannot go here. But like growing up,
Speaker 1: I was certainly knocking on people's doors asking if they
Speaker 1: were going to heaven or hell. And I really didn't
Speaker 1: have like any knowledge whatsoever of a world outside of
Speaker 1: this very very conservative Christian bubble that I lived in.
Speaker 1: Like I wasn't allowed to go to the movie theater,
Speaker 1: or to take dance classes, or to wear you know,
Speaker 1: pants as opposed to a skirt kind of thing. So yeah,
Speaker 1: like I mean, it was it was pretty intense. And
Speaker 1: so there was like several different moments in my life
Speaker 1: where I was really shocked by the world. Like the
Speaker 1: first one, I ended up transferring to a public school
Speaker 1: from my very very small Christian school of like thirty people. Um.
Speaker 1: I ended up transferring to a public school when I
Speaker 1: was sixteen years old, and that was the first time
Speaker 1: where i'd like, you know, seeing a classroom where boys
Speaker 1: and girls could sit wherever they want, Like they could
Speaker 1: sit mixed up, you know, not separated boys on the
Speaker 1: left and girls on the right kind of thing. And
Speaker 1: then I would write so so like public school was
Speaker 1: a huge shock for me. And then I moved to Chicago,
Speaker 1: which is actually where I met Nico, my spouse, fourteen
Speaker 1: years ago, and that was that was the first time
Speaker 1: that I met a gay person. And I remember well
Speaker 1: that I knew that I met a gay person, like
Speaker 1: surely I met gay people before, you know, I didn't know.
Speaker 1: And you know, I had just been raised under this
Speaker 1: assumption that gay people were um they had fallen so
Speaker 1: deeply into sin that their ultimate punishment was God made
Speaker 1: them gay. That's how I understood what queer was. And
Speaker 1: so and then I like, you know, I went to Chicago,
Speaker 1: and I like met queer people and I was like, oh, wow,
Speaker 1: they're not the devil, you know. It was it was
Speaker 1: just this moment where I was like, hmmm, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: And then that was also the first time that I
Speaker 1: recognized that I had feelings for a woman. It was
Speaker 1: New Year's Eve. She was kissing a guy she was
Speaker 1: a close friend. She was kissing a guy and I
Speaker 1: was sitting there watching them, and I was like so jealous.
Speaker 1: And the moment I felt those jealous feelings, it was
Speaker 1: like I need to push that down and bury it.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't know what's what's going on there.
Speaker 1: And then over time it was just this slow progression
Speaker 1: and what kind of a reaction did those feelings make
Speaker 1: you have? I think something that often happens with queer
Speaker 1: people and that certainly happened with myself, is we're so
Speaker 1: often told that we're not able to explore our gender roles,
Speaker 1: were not able to explore, you know, somebody of the
Speaker 1: same sex, and so it becomes, um, it becomes so
Speaker 1: taboo that the only way you're able to explore it
Speaker 1: is through using, you know, some type of substance. I
Speaker 1: mean not that that happens to everyone, but I think
Speaker 1: it happens to a lot of people. So I know,
Speaker 1: certainly for me, it was like, let's get wasted so
Speaker 1: that way I don't have to actually know what I'm doing,
Speaker 1: and I can like hook up with this girl or
Speaker 1: have a three summer you know, like like do these things.
Speaker 1: It just became from this place of substance and and
Speaker 1: kind of being blacked out. And then when I moved
Speaker 1: to New York eight years ago is when I really
Speaker 1: really found freedom and found you know, I don't know
Speaker 1: what it is about New York City, but it's just
Speaker 1: a bunch of weirdos that go there to play and
Speaker 1: you can just be yourself. It's so beautiful. And so
Speaker 1: that was really the first time that I started dating women,
Speaker 1: started realizing what exactly those feelings were. And then and
Speaker 1: then after that, right, like, the gender came even after
Speaker 1: that portion. That's really only been in the last couple
Speaker 1: of years that I've used the word non binary. So
Speaker 1: what made you feel like the label that you were
Speaker 1: born with didn't quite fit? Yeah, you know, I don't
Speaker 1: know why that I can tell you exactly what it
Speaker 1: was to get there. But one was simply education, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, the first time that I met somebody that
Speaker 1: was non binary and they were like, I don't identify
Speaker 1: with being male or female, I was like me too,
Speaker 1: you know WHOA like, that's an option. And genuinely, that
Speaker 1: was really only in the last couple of years. So
Speaker 1: I think that I am still exploring and still finding
Speaker 1: out what that looks like um, which is the beautiful,
Speaker 1: Which is a beautiful thing and also something that I
Speaker 1: hope changes for future generations, you know, because a lot
Speaker 1: of queer people, most queer people end up having a
Speaker 1: second puberty in their twenties or some of their thirties
Speaker 1: or forties or fifties, you know, and we're not really
Speaker 1: allowed to be ourselves growing up, and so that means
Speaker 1: that you have to do a lot of self work
Speaker 1: and a lot of self discovery as an adult. So
Speaker 1: I I really hope that, you know, we're able to
Speaker 1: start seeing that shift for those other younger than us. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: And I just have to say that was amazing and beautiful.
Speaker 1: I'm out here just like I'm just I'm just loving it.
Speaker 1: I got like a big old smile on my face
Speaker 1: listening to you. I was grinning the whole time too.
Speaker 1: Very good. The good news is that I have here
Speaker 1: is that statistically, we are actually um, we are on
Speaker 1: the road to, like you had mentioned, brighter future. A
Speaker 1: full thirty five percent of Generation Z say that they
Speaker 1: personally know somebody who uses gender neutral pronouns like they
Speaker 1: and them, compared to a quarter of millennials who said
Speaker 1: the same sixteen and twelve of Gen X and baby
Speaker 1: boomer baby boomers UM who knows somebody who is gender
Speaker 1: neutral using the pronouns day in them non binary. There
Speaker 1: is also a large increase in the amount per generation
Speaker 1: of people who would prefer that forms online or profiles
Speaker 1: about gender should include options other than man or woman UM,
Speaker 1: and that there should be more than just two binary
Speaker 1: gender choices for forms and uh an online profile. So, so,
Speaker 1: now that you've shared with us your story, your journey
Speaker 1: of coming to the conclusion that they then pronouns feel
Speaker 1: the most comfortable for you, what's your advice for somebody
Speaker 1: who might still be exploring their gender identity that they
Speaker 1: might not yet know what their pronouns are. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think the number one thing is knowing that everything
Speaker 1: can change and that you are allowed to change. You know,
Speaker 1: Nico and I actually talked about this all the time,
Speaker 1: and how you don't have to be set. I am
Speaker 1: X and then that's what you are for the rest
Speaker 1: of your life. I think that, like, that's where the
Speaker 1: word fluidity is so beautiful and we can really allow
Speaker 1: ourselves to explore. So exploration is a great word to
Speaker 1: use here, right, Like, what does it feel like to
Speaker 1: tell your most close friends could you call me they them?
Speaker 1: Or what is it like to start following more people
Speaker 1: on Instagram or making your social your internet social circles
Speaker 1: filled with non binary people. I know something I did
Speaker 1: is I watched a lot of YouTube videos from other
Speaker 1: non people talking about gender and how they um experience
Speaker 1: being a non binary person, and that for me felt
Speaker 1: super super comforting to be like, oh, I'm not alone
Speaker 1: in this, you know, but I think really giving yourself
Speaker 1: the opportunity to explore and finding where you can safely explore, right,
Speaker 1: because not everywhere people are able to be safe. Um,
Speaker 1: So I think that that's a really important piece. Oh
Speaker 1: I love that. Uh. And now I guess for the
Speaker 1: other side of of that decision. Um, once you decide,
Speaker 1: I'll even call myself out. Before we got to meet personally,
Speaker 1: we're we're prepping to record this podcast, and I use
Speaker 1: the pronoun she and her in referencing yourself, and once
Speaker 1: I was corrected, I automatically shifted gears and immediately went
Speaker 1: straight into it. What is your advice for somebody who
Speaker 1: gets in that same situation, or maybe for someone who
Speaker 1: is so intimidated and scared that they're going to mess
Speaker 1: up somebody's pronouns. They even avoid interacting with anybody that's
Speaker 1: different from them at all. What's your advice for those people? Right?
Speaker 1: This is actually one of my favorite topics to talk about,
Speaker 1: is how to help other people transition their language and
Speaker 1: making language more inclusive. I'm just so fascinated by that idea.
Speaker 1: But I think um number one is that a lot
Speaker 1: of times people get a bit defensive with using the
Speaker 1: then pronouns. That's That's what I've seen is that people like, oh,
Speaker 1: why does it have to be this? Like doesn't matter,
Speaker 1: you know. I think a lot of times the reason
Speaker 1: we get defensive is because it's not easy to to
Speaker 1: make the shift into using they then pronounced. And I
Speaker 1: kind of equate it to like learning a new language,
Speaker 1: Like if you just learned Spanish and you don't have
Speaker 1: all of the conjugations completely correct on the word right,
Speaker 1: because that's something that you're not used to saying, and
Speaker 1: so like, we have to honor that piece. We have
Speaker 1: to we have to allow ourselves the time to learn
Speaker 1: it and to understand it. So things that you can
Speaker 1: do is you can practice writing simple sentences with they
Speaker 1: then pronouns you can, um, when you're reading a book,
Speaker 1: see what it's like to substitute he she gendered pronouns
Speaker 1: with they them. UM. I think that like there's actually
Speaker 1: some education and just learning that you have to do,
Speaker 1: and it takes practice. Um. And then I also feel
Speaker 1: like when you do mess up a pronoun, instead of
Speaker 1: spending a ton of time apologizing and be like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, I'm so I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry,
Speaker 1: just correct it and then move on. Because for a
Speaker 1: non binary person or someone who uses the then pronouns,
Speaker 1: it's never comfortable to be in a social situation and
Speaker 1: be monopolizing the conversation by everyone apologizing to you about
Speaker 1: a word. You know, So I think that the best
Speaker 1: thing to do is actually just oops, I mean they,
Speaker 1: and then continue to move on and roll right over it. Then,
Speaker 1: number one thing that I would love to see from
Speaker 1: people is not it's not everyone being perfect in using
Speaker 1: the right pronouns all the time, but simply people making
Speaker 1: the effort. I love that. That's a beautiful period. The effort,
Speaker 1: I think, the effort to want to make that change,
Speaker 1: to unlearn the things that maybe you had learned as
Speaker 1: a kid and relearned them now to the way that
Speaker 1: the world is now so that people feel that equality,
Speaker 1: people actually push for that equality to be more than
Speaker 1: what it is now. And as we've seen the trend statistically,
Speaker 1: it's gone up you and you ended that statement perfectly,
Speaker 1: and I think that's gonna end this segment perfectly. We're
Speaker 1: gonna take a quick break. Thank you so much, Bethany.
Speaker 1: When we come back, my sweet bond Me, Mila jam
Speaker 1: is going to be talking with me about seeing representation
Speaker 1: and being the representation. We will be right back. Don't
Speaker 1: go anywhere. We are back. This is let's get into it.
Speaker 1: I'm Alex Siono and we are having a sweet, fun
Speaker 1: conversation about gender identity. I just finished a beautiful conversation
Speaker 1: with Bethany Myers. We talked about choosing comfortable labels, the
Speaker 1: process that they went through to choose their labels, and
Speaker 1: how you can get a little bit more comfortable with
Speaker 1: it and know that it's an ongoing process as life
Speaker 1: is um in every situation. People might be wondering why
Speaker 1: I call you my sweet bond me. When we filmed
Speaker 1: the her music video that Mila was the star of,
Speaker 1: we actually had lunch which were a little bond me sandwiches.
Speaker 1: It's a Vietnamese sandwich. And for some reason we kind
Speaker 1: of it was me, you and Nick Mila, and we
Speaker 1: kind of call ourselves the bond. We like, all three
Speaker 1: of us the bond we and so we kind of
Speaker 1: just all called each other bond me and it's just
Speaker 1: kind of stuck. So that's so that's where that comes from.
Speaker 1: But now we are talking, Mila jam bond me. How
Speaker 1: are you Alex? I miss you. I haven't seen you
Speaker 1: in a very long time. And I wish we could
Speaker 1: just have like a quick social distancing hang out, like
Speaker 1: across the street or something, and maybe we could wave
Speaker 1: to each other. Mila, let's just start off. Why don't
Speaker 1: you tell us a little bit about yourself? UM A
Speaker 1: recording artist, musician, singer, songwriter. UM. Artivists is what I
Speaker 1: like to call myself. Actress, choreographer, dancer, UM. The list
Speaker 1: goes on and on. And I love to just be
Speaker 1: the best me that I can be. Uh. I love that. UM.
Speaker 1: We're gonna talk all I want to talk. We're gonna
Speaker 1: get into it. I want you to know we're gonna
Speaker 1: get into your whole life, which is why I was
Speaker 1: not worried about it. The amount of talent that you
Speaker 1: have continues to impress me. Um. But before we get
Speaker 1: into that, I wanted to talk about the process, um,
Speaker 1: that I went through. I know, sometimes learning to be
Speaker 1: a better version of ourselves means actually making a ton
Speaker 1: of mistakes along the way. I mean, I remember when
Speaker 1: we were filming the music video for her, you had
Speaker 1: to correct me so many times, and you were so
Speaker 1: patient and and kind to me, and it really helped
Speaker 1: me become a better version of me. So sometimes learning
Speaker 1: to be a better version of ourselves means making a
Speaker 1: ton of mistakes along the way. I truly do value
Speaker 1: you as a teacher and as a friend, and as
Speaker 1: a constant example of what it means to have true
Speaker 1: courage and be an insane artist or artivists. As you say,
Speaker 1: i'm gonna start, I think I'm gonna steal that. I
Speaker 1: want to apologize ahead of time. I'm gonna steal artivists
Speaker 1: because that's genius. Um. But I want to hear more. Okay,
Speaker 1: I'll pay rent for it, Um. I wanted to learn
Speaker 1: more about actually how you grew up, the way that
Speaker 1: you grew up, the same way that I spoke with
Speaker 1: Bethany about it. Um, you grew up in an era
Speaker 1: where transrepretented representation was very, very limited, and representation of
Speaker 1: black women was already restricted to specific types. Growing up,
Speaker 1: how did you see yourself through that process? It's quite
Speaker 1: a journey. I'm from the South and from Georgia, actually
Speaker 1: a really small town called Columbus, Georgia, even though I
Speaker 1: like to reference Atlanta a t. L. Shouty as one
Speaker 1: of the places that I grew up. And so I
Speaker 1: was born in Chicago and raised in Columbus slash Atlanta, Georgia,
Speaker 1: and so you know, it's the dirty South. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, the Bible Belt. And I always knew I
Speaker 1: was different. I always felt like I was female. And
Speaker 1: I remember, since I was probably four years old at least,
Speaker 1: thinking that those things don't work in this world. And
Speaker 1: I believe that most of my youth, in my upbringing,
Speaker 1: my childhood, I was just compensating for what I always
Speaker 1: knew in my heart and in my spirit was me
Speaker 1: and what was real. And this is when we go
Speaker 1: to sleep at night, when we, you know, are by ourselves,
Speaker 1: when we are alone, and we have our thoughts, and
Speaker 1: how we process those thoughts and those feelings that we
Speaker 1: have for who we are, who we like see in
Speaker 1: the mirror, um how that either looks good to you
Speaker 1: or doesn't really resonate with you. And you're trying to
Speaker 1: figure out what the disconnect is. And then you have
Speaker 1: society and people around you. You You have family and friends
Speaker 1: telling you who you are. That's literally what people do
Speaker 1: when you're a child, you know, you have people telling
Speaker 1: you who you are, and they kind of pay attention
Speaker 1: to the things that you give them. But it's really
Speaker 1: hard to let children sort of just be, especially black
Speaker 1: children raising the South, because almost every black person that
Speaker 1: was raised in you know, the black culture can kind
Speaker 1: of attest to Like, there's so much that we deal
Speaker 1: with from the beginning of our lives. We're not to go,
Speaker 1: what not to do, what not to say, how not
Speaker 1: to act, how not to look, how to look, how
Speaker 1: to act to be not only a representation of your
Speaker 1: black community, but a representation of someone that is um,
Speaker 1: you know, upstanding or hopefully you know, doing some good
Speaker 1: and not out on the street and not like doing
Speaker 1: something bad. So I had all of that to to
Speaker 1: deal with, and on top of that, I'm just like,
Speaker 1: I just feel so connected to the female spirit and
Speaker 1: the feminine energy. And I was always picked on as
Speaker 1: a kid for that. I was always seen as you know,
Speaker 1: words like the sissy or like people would say you gay,
Speaker 1: you gay. This is before you had any understanding of
Speaker 1: like what that means. You know, even without sexuality being
Speaker 1: a part of the conversation. You just know, Oh, the
Speaker 1: way that I present or feel or act mixed alarms people.
Speaker 1: And then so what do you do? Most people will
Speaker 1: go into themselves and they will basically sabotage themselves and
Speaker 1: just cut it off, or they will like you know,
Speaker 1: create a math. I wasn't that person. I never created
Speaker 1: a mask for it. And I say that because in
Speaker 1: really honestly knowing so much of who I really was
Speaker 1: as a kid, I just existed in spaces and I
Speaker 1: would probably say I was more non binary as a kid.
Speaker 1: And I've never even admitted this or said this on
Speaker 1: any you know, interview, but like I mean, looking back,
Speaker 1: because I was male bodied, because I was told I
Speaker 1: was a boy, I probably just felt androgyny was the
Speaker 1: word that was really like the word. And when I
Speaker 1: was little and so like, I just felt in dragynus
Speaker 1: and I knew my attractions, and I knew how I
Speaker 1: saw myself, and I knew the kind of energies I
Speaker 1: wanted to be around girlfriends girls. I was one of
Speaker 1: the girls. I was always the kid that was the
Speaker 1: only one allowed to like come to the sleepover, that
Speaker 1: was not like a threat. So it was like I
Speaker 1: was like so in just into researching my feelings and
Speaker 1: like keeping journals and just being creative. And I felt
Speaker 1: like I found my identity through creativity, through art, because
Speaker 1: like one thing was just like I was a kid
Speaker 1: with a lot of energy. You know, I think we
Speaker 1: share that. I bet you had the most energies. I
Speaker 1: had the most energy in the world. I still have
Speaker 1: and like you already know you know you know, so
Speaker 1: like dancing, dance classes, I was a gymnast, acting classes,
Speaker 1: voice lessons, church choir. I was in like some local
Speaker 1: television shows. I was in regional theater. I really was
Speaker 1: projecting to become like a child star. I had opportunities
Speaker 1: as a kid to go to l A and to
Speaker 1: be a part of a sitcom. And my mom was
Speaker 1: just kind of like I as a single mother. She
Speaker 1: was like, I don't know what that life is going
Speaker 1: to bring, Like that's going to benefit us, and she's like,
Speaker 1: right now, it is like, you know, you're a kid
Speaker 1: and you need in education. So like it just didn't
Speaker 1: go that way. I really just delve so much into
Speaker 1: being an artist and that sort of helped me get
Speaker 1: through my identity issues and expressing it through performance. And
Speaker 1: then that was also the way that I was able
Speaker 1: to beat It was like my saving grace. It was
Speaker 1: like my my protection and my armor, because if people
Speaker 1: made fun of me, if I were able to like perform,
Speaker 1: you know, they would say, oh, but you're talented, Okay,
Speaker 1: so you're good. You know, we'll let you slide. You know,
Speaker 1: we're not going to really pick on you too much
Speaker 1: because you know, you could saying and so that's kind
Speaker 1: of what people would, you know, give me, And then
Speaker 1: I would just kind of hide away from everything else.
Speaker 1: I look back to and thinking about identifying as someone
Speaker 1: gay in high school, it was a time of it
Speaker 1: was a clear binary. This is in the nineties. It
Speaker 1: is a clear binary. You are gay or you are straight.
Speaker 1: That was it. So I was like, I know, in
Speaker 1: what everyone is telling me, I probably fit more into
Speaker 1: the gay aspect, even though I see myself as a woman,
Speaker 1: and my attraction is to only men and being someone
Speaker 1: that has never been attracted to women or desired And
Speaker 1: I like to say this in in breaking down sexuality,
Speaker 1: I think sexuality is about desire, Like who do you
Speaker 1: desire to wake up next to? Who you desire to
Speaker 1: want to spend time with? Who do you desire to
Speaker 1: want to have your most wonderful moments with sexual included.
Speaker 1: So that's what I look at it. And so I
Speaker 1: was like, well, I never wanted that with women. I
Speaker 1: just felt like a sisterhood. And I loved what Bethany
Speaker 1: said so much about like we're learning and evolving, and I,
Speaker 1: you know, I do think there is space between the
Speaker 1: fluidity and the spectrum. I feel like I'm as fixed
Speaker 1: as fixed could be in in a sense, I don't know,
Speaker 1: like I don't know what I would say about my
Speaker 1: life in twenty years from now, but I pretty much
Speaker 1: know like ever since I was very very young, I've
Speaker 1: always known I wanted to be a woman, and I
Speaker 1: always knew that I was attracted to men, and I
Speaker 1: don't know how that was going to happen. So was
Speaker 1: there any like specific moment that you realized maybe there's
Speaker 1: an option for you to come into your identity as
Speaker 1: a woman. I remember reading a magazine I think it
Speaker 1: was Cosmo when I was in high school, and it
Speaker 1: was literally like about a girl from Thailand who had
Speaker 1: transitioned and she had met a guy and she was
Speaker 1: in him and he liked her too, and he magically
Speaker 1: like liked her so much that he married her and
Speaker 1: that he was okay because she had transition from male
Speaker 1: to female. And I was just like my mind was blown,
Speaker 1: and I was like that really happens. I was like
Speaker 1: that really, like you can really do that, and you
Speaker 1: still don't even understand how it works. This is like
Speaker 1: why people don't even understand like coming to terms with
Speaker 1: like learning how you understand yourself as a gay person,
Speaker 1: as a trans person, as a straight person, and so
Speaker 1: like the only difference is for some people in the
Speaker 1: queer community is like we've had all of this time
Speaker 1: to really try to figure out what's going on and
Speaker 1: have the work that we internally do, and then we
Speaker 1: come to an AHA moment and we have this embracing
Speaker 1: of the aha moment is what I like to call it,
Speaker 1: and you go, this is what it is, this is
Speaker 1: what I need to do, and I'm ready to stand
Speaker 1: up in that love that I just feel there are
Speaker 1: a lot of people, straight, cys, hetero people, you know,
Speaker 1: that kind of just float into this like I don't
Speaker 1: have to do any work, I don't really have to
Speaker 1: think about what I'm feeling, because I still believe at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, even with the movement, the
Speaker 1: l g B t Q plus movement, what we would
Speaker 1: realize is that there are so many people that are fluid,
Speaker 1: that are on a spectrum that are not necessarily fixed.
Speaker 1: And so yes, right, and so we have this, we
Speaker 1: have this construct that we're bound to that I think
Speaker 1: it's primarily about money and power, and that's a different podcast.
Speaker 1: It's about advantages and privilege and what is allotted to you.
Speaker 1: And I know, being someone black, it's like it's not
Speaker 1: okay for you to want to be different or to
Speaker 1: be different, or to be gay or to be trans
Speaker 1: because you're messing up. You're sucking it up for everyone
Speaker 1: else in the group, and you're or be in a
Speaker 1: nuisance and you're being a problem. And you know, I
Speaker 1: mean I was never in I was never sent to
Speaker 1: conversion therapy. But what I like to say is in
Speaker 1: the Black Church when you're when you're raised in the
Speaker 1: Black Church, if you come out when you're still young,
Speaker 1: you are gonna be taken to church and you're gonna
Speaker 1: have a discussion with your pastor. This is what happens.
Speaker 1: And the parents, the mother, the father of both, they're like,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go see Pastor Gibson or whomever. Shout out
Speaker 1: to my old pastor, Pastor Gibson. We're gonna have a talk.
Speaker 1: We're gonna chat, We're gonna say, I know you have
Speaker 1: these feelings. And it's always about you having these feelings,
Speaker 1: but they're not predicated on merit. They're not okay, and
Speaker 1: this is not how you get through life and this
Speaker 1: is not how you make a way for yourself. So
Speaker 1: we need to deal with it. And it's always under this.
Speaker 1: It's always about it being wrong. You're never given the
Speaker 1: space to be able to be like, how do you
Speaker 1: really feel today, Mila? How do you feel Alex? What
Speaker 1: are you thinking about? Bethany? Can you express to me
Speaker 1: that was non existent? And also for me growing up
Speaker 1: to is like moving to New York was about I
Speaker 1: need to get away. I need to go to a
Speaker 1: place where I feel like I can be my most creative,
Speaker 1: expressive self and somewhere where I can feel like I
Speaker 1: can discover and explore that real self. And you know,
Speaker 1: being here, I learned to own myself. I mean, and
Speaker 1: I always say this too, It's like, you know, we
Speaker 1: have to find safe spaces because not everyone has the
Speaker 1: safety to be able to do what they want to do.
Speaker 1: I had someone asked me, while I live with my
Speaker 1: mother and they don't agree with me being trans, and
Speaker 1: they don't you know, I can't And I said, listen, boo,
Speaker 1: when you can figure out how to get out of
Speaker 1: or from under their roof, whether you're making your own
Speaker 1: money or you found your own place, you kind of
Speaker 1: have to appease the situation because that's your livelihood. But
Speaker 1: once you're able to step out of that, you can
Speaker 1: start making decisions for yourself. And then I was completely
Speaker 1: convinced that my I would never speak to my family.
Speaker 1: What was that conversation with your family? Like I was raised,
Speaker 1: is in love. My mother is one of the most
Speaker 1: amazing women in the world, and she's always supported me
Speaker 1: and loved me. Confusions conversations, yes, some you know, headbutting,
Speaker 1: of course, but I was ready to accept the fact
Speaker 1: that my family mother aunt, uncle's father could not accept it.
Speaker 1: So I made the choice. And it's like it's like
Speaker 1: when you're when you're just um, what do you know
Speaker 1: when when you say it's you're all in, Like you
Speaker 1: get to a point where you're just so all in
Speaker 1: that you don't care. And I am not to get
Speaker 1: off on a tangent. I'm trying to encourage the people
Speaker 1: that I encounter, especially straight identified men that realized that
Speaker 1: they're attracted to or interested in trans women, to be
Speaker 1: able to fight for their their needs and their attractions
Speaker 1: and to make space for the things that they really
Speaker 1: want and love. Um and so because we just consistently
Speaker 1: get left on the wayside. But I just was like,
Speaker 1: my family not gonna have it. And I was like, peace,
Speaker 1: y'all can take it however you want. I have to
Speaker 1: focus on my life. And then the questions come and
Speaker 1: then that you know, you know what I want to know.
Speaker 1: I want to understand, um, well why does it have
Speaker 1: to be this way? Well why can't you just perform?
Speaker 1: And why can't you just do this? Sometimes? And I
Speaker 1: was like, well, I wake up and I go to
Speaker 1: sleep being this feeling, this embodying, this and this is
Speaker 1: me and I am Mila, and it needs to you know,
Speaker 1: and I have to just live into that and lean
Speaker 1: into that. And eventually my mother obviously she's she kind
Speaker 1: of got the picture because it was no longer a
Speaker 1: joke or a game, because a lot of it starts
Speaker 1: out being funny, and a lot of it is a joke.
Speaker 1: A lot of comedy surrounds being queer, being trans, being different.
Speaker 1: It's always we are always the butt of the joke.
Speaker 1: We're always the comedic relief. Every comedian has done a
Speaker 1: joke about gender identity, and I will say that some
Speaker 1: of them are really funny and some of them are not.
Speaker 1: But it's it's like we have to really understand that
Speaker 1: the human experience is so vast, and it's like the
Speaker 1: boxes don't ever allow us to get to those places.
Speaker 1: And this is how you have people coming out at
Speaker 1: different places in their life. I was never married to
Speaker 1: a woman. There are some trans women who were married
Speaker 1: to women when they you know, before transitioning, and so
Speaker 1: this is how you have the different nuances come into play.
Speaker 1: But that all being said, because I'm sure you have
Speaker 1: lots of questions. I just I feel like I was
Speaker 1: just about to say I have hewn, but you aren't
Speaker 1: answered all of them like you literally answered all of them.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think the biggest thing for me is, uh,
Speaker 1: can you tell us about the first time that you
Speaker 1: experienced a trans woman living what you perceived as an
Speaker 1: authentic day to day life. I did come to New
Speaker 1: York and I started touring and doing theater and doing
Speaker 1: like Broadway show shows on the road or whatever. And
Speaker 1: I would see trans women in the club scene, in
Speaker 1: the gay club scene, performing. And what you have to
Speaker 1: remember is, which is very strange for me, is because
Speaker 1: I was basically reared in gay culture, in the gay scene,
Speaker 1: in the gay nightlife, uh, you know, experience, and so
Speaker 1: it's kind of a it's a little bit of a
Speaker 1: rabbit hole when you're a straight identified like woman on
Speaker 1: the binary that happens to be trans, where all of
Speaker 1: that information comes from a lot of the women I saw,
Speaker 1: they were performers. I never saw their humanity. I never
Speaker 1: saw the person behind the dollar bills, the shimmy dress,
Speaker 1: the you know, show numbers. And I was just like,
Speaker 1: it was not until and I say this in every
Speaker 1: even interview. Candice Kane, who is one of my dear Sisters.
Speaker 1: She was on Dirty Sexy Money, and I am Kate.
Speaker 1: I saw her performing and I saw her show and
Speaker 1: it was the first time that I witnessed a trans
Speaker 1: woman that was not only like visually mesmerizing and stunning,
Speaker 1: but funny and witty and real and honest. And I
Speaker 1: just I saw the human. And I have a friend
Speaker 1: who would say when I first saw her perform, he's
Speaker 1: He's like, that was the moment. He's like, I saw
Speaker 1: it in your eyes and you realized, oh my god,
Speaker 1: that's that's that's me. And I did. I felt, this
Speaker 1: is like, that's that's who I am. I I have that.
Speaker 1: I'm like, I feel the same way I want to
Speaker 1: be that. How does that happen? And then it wasn't
Speaker 1: until I also say this, It wasn't until I met
Speaker 1: Laverne Um Laverne Cox that I had a friend that
Speaker 1: gave me tools that was like, girl, I knew you.
Speaker 1: I knew a girl when I met you. We all
Speaker 1: have to do it in our own time, but this
Speaker 1: is where you go, this is who you talk to,
Speaker 1: this is what you kind of like if you need
Speaker 1: help with finding clinics and all this stuff. And I
Speaker 1: was like, oh my god, this is what it is,
Speaker 1: and and then finding the path to that for myself.
Speaker 1: It was like, I know the kind of woman that
Speaker 1: I want to be, Like, I want to be real,
Speaker 1: I want to be authentic, I want to be positive.
Speaker 1: I want to be a representative of something you know
Speaker 1: that always gets a bad rap, and I want to
Speaker 1: be able to change by just being visible and showing
Speaker 1: people that, like, what you think you know about us
Speaker 1: is not the truth and it's not always true, and
Speaker 1: that um dispel a lot of you know, so well,
Speaker 1: you've definitely become a visible representation for millions of trans kids.
Speaker 1: How often does that really factor into your daily thought
Speaker 1: process of how you want to create and what message
Speaker 1: you want to put out there every day? I would
Speaker 1: say that's uh. I would just I've been the same
Speaker 1: person my whole life. That's really what what's interesting. And
Speaker 1: you know, the wildest dream of becoming like the person
Speaker 1: you dream to become the woman I have dreamt of
Speaker 1: becoming like living that is just gratitude. And it's just
Speaker 1: like I've gotten to a place where, I mean, honestly,
Speaker 1: no story is too sacred to tell because we're storytellers.
Speaker 1: And that's what we're supposed to do. I think, while
Speaker 1: we're here and in this space, what do you have
Speaker 1: if you can't tell your story? What what do you
Speaker 1: have if you can't share the experience of what your
Speaker 1: specific journey has given you. And that's what helps people
Speaker 1: real And you know, being an artist and a musician,
Speaker 1: and we you know, we work with people that write
Speaker 1: music for us. We collaborate. You know, someone might write
Speaker 1: a song for you and say like alex I wan
Speaker 1: should do this? Me love, can you do this? We
Speaker 1: have to take the time in between you know, doing
Speaker 1: things for other people's or other reasons, to just be
Speaker 1: real and to give of ourselves because that's what really
Speaker 1: helps people, you know, not saying the right thing and
Speaker 1: not doing the thing that you think people want to hear.
Speaker 1: It's really about transparency, Mila. I mean, I'm very lucky
Speaker 1: that I've already had the opportunity in life to create
Speaker 1: art with you. I'm very lucky that I have the
Speaker 1: future opportunity to continue creating art with you. Hearing your
Speaker 1: story only makes me love you more. And I think
Speaker 1: you are the perfect example of seeing representation and in
Speaker 1: the lack thereof being representation, not only for other people,
Speaker 1: but for yourself. Uh, And so I love you even
Speaker 1: more after hearing things about you that I had never
Speaker 1: heard um and hearing you tell your story the way
Speaker 1: that you did. We're going to take a quick ad
Speaker 1: break when we come back. We got Bethany back with us,
Speaker 1: we got Mila already here with us, and we have
Speaker 1: some messages for the CIS folks. Is what we have here,
Speaker 1: is what we titled the section. But we're gonna be
Speaker 1: talking about just kind of simple questions, just a quick
Speaker 1: run through for those of you out there that want
Speaker 1: to continue learning more educating yourselves on learning the things
Speaker 1: that are not real or not right or not true,
Speaker 1: and learning the things that are. So we'll be right
Speaker 1: back and we'll talk to you about I am very,
Speaker 1: very blessed to be in the presence of Bethany Myers
Speaker 1: and me legient beautiful guests pod presence. I love that
Speaker 1: that could always And we've had some beautiful conversations about
Speaker 1: choosing labels that you are comfortable with using for yourself,
Speaker 1: about being representation, seeing representation, and now to close it out,
Speaker 1: I wanted to have a moment. I am a CIS
Speaker 1: gendered heterosexual man, and I wanted to make this section
Speaker 1: kind of a quick rapid fire question and or place
Speaker 1: that my listeners can come to and learn things that
Speaker 1: they might not know already, or maybe become a little
Speaker 1: bit more comfortable with things that they might know a
Speaker 1: little bit about but not be comfortable with. But before
Speaker 1: we get into that, Mila, you were saying something in
Speaker 1: the break I actually stopped you because I wanted you
Speaker 1: to say it here on the section, So please take
Speaker 1: it away. Yeah, no, I was just I wanted to
Speaker 1: just pickyback onto Bethany when they were saying how important
Speaker 1: it is to give yourself space to make you know
Speaker 1: and not necessarily make mistakes, but that you don't have
Speaker 1: to be perfect when you're learning that someone has a
Speaker 1: different pronoun or you know, you meet someone and they
Speaker 1: go by, they them there, and you're still a little
Speaker 1: confused and you slip up and you mess up because
Speaker 1: I mean, for me, it's about intention, you know, And
Speaker 1: when someone apologizes to me, I know when the apology
Speaker 1: is coming from a place of like, I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: didn't know, because I always say I stand to be corrected,
Speaker 1: and I've it has happened for me, you know, I've
Speaker 1: gone to places, and if I see someone that's presenting
Speaker 1: mail or masculine, if I say excuse me, sir in
Speaker 1: that moment and they're like, um, I'm like, oh, I'm
Speaker 1: so sorry. You know, please inform me. I just always
Speaker 1: stand to be corrected, and it can be awkward, it
Speaker 1: could be uncomfortable, but like, hey, we're all learning at
Speaker 1: times and we don't all have the answer. I love that.
Speaker 1: So the first question that I have that I think
Speaker 1: is something very important. It took me some time to
Speaker 1: really learn the difference. But here on the podcast, either
Speaker 1: of you can answer this, or you can both answer
Speaker 1: this piggyback off of each other. Can you explain the
Speaker 1: difference between transgender and gender nonconforming? Because I feel like
Speaker 1: you've both mentioned growing up the way that the world's been,
Speaker 1: it's been a very binary mindset from the eighties into
Speaker 1: the nineties and then into now where we are continuing
Speaker 1: to learn. For my listeners out there who might throw
Speaker 1: all of it into one category, which it absolutely isn't.
Speaker 1: Can you explain the difference between transgender and gender nonconforming?
Speaker 1: I just would say that it's an umbrella term. It's
Speaker 1: like it's an umbrella kind of situation. You know, there's
Speaker 1: think of, I don't know, building with rooms and you know,
Speaker 1: under the trans apartment complex, I guess if you will,
Speaker 1: there are in different rooms that people kind of inhabit
Speaker 1: and you know, and they're not exclusive to just one room.
Speaker 1: But like, and I'd love to hear Bethany's description of this,
Speaker 1: but personally, like I identify as a trans heterosexual trans women, Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm on the binary, so I don't identify
Speaker 1: as non binary. But you can be trans and identify
Speaker 1: as non binary. That's very possible. Yeah, I mean, I
Speaker 1: think that's a great way to think of it. You know,
Speaker 1: it's important to note that different people use their words
Speaker 1: in a different way, and I think that meanings can
Speaker 1: kind of hold a lot. But for a gender nonconforming person,
Speaker 1: I would say that I would normally think of that
Speaker 1: it's not necessarily adhering to male or female. Whereas somebody
Speaker 1: who identifies as trying and is identified at birth as
Speaker 1: one gender and then a transition into another gender and
Speaker 1: like being called that specifically, just like Nila just said
Speaker 1: about it being more on the binary, you know, she's
Speaker 1: on the binary, trans heterosexual person, whereas, yeah, that is
Speaker 1: that is as simple as as it needs to be
Speaker 1: in its explanation. Like you said, it is not just
Speaker 1: one or the other. It's not just that, oh, you
Speaker 1: are this or you are that. Um. So thank you
Speaker 1: guys for explaining that further. Now for both of you,
Speaker 1: how do you manage the feelings? And do you ever
Speaker 1: get tired? Do you ever get annoyed about explaining your existence? Oh? Um,
Speaker 1: I I really believe it's a part of my spiritual work. Yes,
Speaker 1: I get tired. I don't want to have to do it.
Speaker 1: But there's a difference between feeling like you have to
Speaker 1: do it and really wanting to do it because I
Speaker 1: really want to share that information. And I think that's
Speaker 1: why we exist. And I was saying this to Laverne
Speaker 1: yesterday on on my Instagram Live, that we have queer
Speaker 1: people and people that are not on this binary necessarily
Speaker 1: are a gift. We have a different way of receiving
Speaker 1: energy from the earth and the light, and there's so
Speaker 1: much around us that that puts us on ourselves, that
Speaker 1: makes us say that we're not you know, viable, we're
Speaker 1: not worthy, we're not you shouldn't be that. It's no, no, no,
Speaker 1: no no, And the reality is. It's like there's so
Speaker 1: much Yes, if people would just listen, if people would
Speaker 1: just make space, there's so much to gain from learning
Speaker 1: from the gifts that we have. So I want to
Speaker 1: share that. I want to share that gift of telling
Speaker 1: you know what I'm doing now when I'm on tender
Speaker 1: and I'm talking this on guy and he's trying to
Speaker 1: be a little bit of a knucklehead, and it's like
Speaker 1: having to explain myself all the time, and they're never
Speaker 1: doing any work, and they're never reading anything or googling anything.
Speaker 1: You know, it is amazing when a guy will say
Speaker 1: to me, I've read about that. I was thinking about that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I know. You know, as a transforman, I know you
Speaker 1: deal with a lot of stuff like I'm sorry that
Speaker 1: you have to deal with that. That's comforting because you're
Speaker 1: paying attention, But when people are just not paying attention,
Speaker 1: it's like, how do you expect anyone to show up
Speaker 1: for you? Please? Bethany take Yeah, that was absolutely beautiful.
Speaker 1: And I think you know, also, Meli, you were talking
Speaker 1: about race before, and I'm a white person, and you
Speaker 1: know the black trends. Women I think have to deal
Speaker 1: with this. I mean they do deal with this and
Speaker 1: skills that are one million times more than what I've
Speaker 1: ever had to experience, you know. Um So, So with
Speaker 1: that being said, I do think there are pieces of
Speaker 1: this that can be really exhaustive. There's a part of
Speaker 1: me that definitely wants to teach. I find I get
Speaker 1: the most exhausted when the queer community, so my family
Speaker 1: can't get it or don't doesn't try to use pronouns.
Speaker 1: That has been a big frustration for me. Like I've
Speaker 1: actually had some friends who just you know, it's all
Speaker 1: like not even anant, yeah, just like not even a
Speaker 1: little bit. And I think that's so disheartening because it's
Speaker 1: like if you can't get it, then how do you
Speaker 1: my mom ever going to get it? You know. Like
Speaker 1: so I think that part is tough. But then the
Speaker 1: other side of it is like you get so much encouragement,
Speaker 1: and like I have a lot of parents, um in
Speaker 1: my Instagram following who are like trying to teach their
Speaker 1: kids and help them understand what a non binary person
Speaker 1: is and they're like, today, you know, my little kid
Speaker 1: like looked at your Instagram and was like they're such
Speaker 1: a handsome girl, you know, or like trying to say
Speaker 1: these things, and you just see that there's a teacher
Speaker 1: and that there there are people who want to learn
Speaker 1: and grow, and so I think they counterbalance each other often.
Speaker 1: Before I ask the next question, I do want to
Speaker 1: shout out Mela's Instagram. If you are on Tinder and
Speaker 1: you match with Mila, you better come correct because if
Speaker 1: you don't, you're getting called out like I've seen Mila
Speaker 1: go off on some fools out there. So if you're
Speaker 1: gonna come to if you're gonna come to me, Lontenda,
Speaker 1: you better come correct. Uh. Kind of expanding on that,
Speaker 1: what is one thing that you both wish sis people
Speaker 1: understood a little bit more about your community. I wish, well,
Speaker 1: this is a little bit about a different community. But
Speaker 1: myself and my partner are we have a not a
Speaker 1: monogamoust polymers relationship, and um, I wish that people understood
Speaker 1: more that it's like not just about the sex. And
Speaker 1: I think that also goes like for the careeer, like
Speaker 1: just all the way around that It's like that people
Speaker 1: who are bisexuals, it's not just because they want to
Speaker 1: have sex with everyone. People who are polly it's such
Speaker 1: just about sex, like it actually is about meaningful connections
Speaker 1: and relationships and about being able to be or more
Speaker 1: authentic self and for me not being held by these
Speaker 1: restrictive labels that say I am this or that. So yeah,
Speaker 1: I think that's my my number one there. Um yeah,
Speaker 1: I would I would agree with that too. Um. I
Speaker 1: would just say that six people, black trans women are
Speaker 1: the ultimate gift. And you need to stand up. You
Speaker 1: need to say something when you see something. You need
Speaker 1: to back us up. You need to support us, you
Speaker 1: need to love us. There is such a depletion of
Speaker 1: love and respect and understanding and healing for the black
Speaker 1: trans woman, and that is what she needs right now.
Speaker 1: I'm specifically talking about black trans women because that's me
Speaker 1: and that's my sisters, and there are so many people
Speaker 1: who can love us in the dark, but just can't
Speaker 1: find it to love us in the light. And you
Speaker 1: need to figure it. We need to we need to
Speaker 1: change that. That has to that. It's changing, and it's
Speaker 1: got to change. It's gotta continue to change. And it
Speaker 1: only happens by making light of what's real. God damn,
Speaker 1: you meet a trans woman. She's true, she's a trans woman,
Speaker 1: and what and great and let her be? Let her
Speaker 1: do her thing. She's cute. I'm feeling her great. Your
Speaker 1: bro or your buddy sees her and it's like, I
Speaker 1: think she's cute. The first thing that happens is a disclaimer. Well, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: I don't think you you might want to no no,
Speaker 1: no no no, Like let people step into their own
Speaker 1: desire and let people make their own choices. And I
Speaker 1: know that we're all kind of taught to be like,
Speaker 1: go with what your family says, go with what your
Speaker 1: friends say, because I deal with that too, even as
Speaker 1: a queer person, as a trans woman, like my girlfriends
Speaker 1: would be like, girl, you can talk to him or whatever.
Speaker 1: But like, we really need to create more room for people,
Speaker 1: Like even Bethany was saying about being polly or being
Speaker 1: open or all like, there's so much that people are
Speaker 1: just misinformation. It's like, what if you actually really just
Speaker 1: let go of it and just let it be, then
Speaker 1: you'll probably learn something new and be like, oh, all right,
Speaker 1: y'all are spitting heat. Y'all are spitting heat today, Mila,
Speaker 1: I literally want to have like Sunday service with you.
Speaker 1: I would be down with it down and I love it.
Speaker 1: I'm watching I'm watching Unico all the time, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: I'm sending you a huge care bear hug right now.
Speaker 1: And I think this is the beginning of like we
Speaker 1: must stay connected, because I would anytime you'd ever want
Speaker 1: to talk about anything or have me be a part
Speaker 1: of anything, I'm down. I have one last question. What
Speaker 1: is one thing that you both think sis folks can
Speaker 1: do to make your day to day lives just better.
Speaker 1: I would just say, listen, stop over talking. Doing exactly
Speaker 1: what Alex has done in this podcast. You sat here
Speaker 1: and you listened, and you didn't interrupt us, and you
Speaker 1: didn't make it about you. Yeah, I mean I would
Speaker 1: definitely second the listening aspect. I would say, doing research
Speaker 1: on your own. You know, Mila, I'm sure that you
Speaker 1: get this all the time. I do love to educate people,
Speaker 1: and I love to help people think of ways that
Speaker 1: they can learn, but simultaneously, like if you can google it, like,
Speaker 1: it's not my job to create the curriculum for your
Speaker 1: queer learning experience. UM and I think that people just
Speaker 1: very simple google searches, Like especially I found so many
Speaker 1: people don't really understand the difference between like gender identity,
Speaker 1: gender expression, and gender assignment UM and sometimes people don't
Speaker 1: even know to look up these things. But if you
Speaker 1: just kind of look up some like really basic stuff
Speaker 1: on gender, you can find a lot of information that
Speaker 1: can really help you along, you know, So I think
Speaker 1: that's an important thing. Well, thank you both, honestly, thank
Speaker 1: you so much both of you for coming on the podcast,
Speaker 1: for allowing me to be a student. And I really
Speaker 1: do appreciate you for applauding my ability to not interrupt
Speaker 1: you guys or interrupt you all. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: for me, I loved just sitting here and listening and
Speaker 1: learning more and more and more. So thank you both
Speaker 1: for coming on here and letting me be a student,
Speaker 1: letting me learn and letting me unlearned things that I
Speaker 1: thought I knew that now I I know better. So
Speaker 1: I appreciate both of you. We're all learning, we're all
Speaker 1: continuing to learn, so that's good too, all right. I
Speaker 1: feel like I have a lot of takeaways for this episode.
Speaker 1: My biggest takeaway is that the world is always evolving,
Speaker 1: It's always changing, it's always leveling up. Therefore, cultures are
Speaker 1: constantly evolving. People are constantly evolving, Communities are constantly evolving.
Speaker 1: Who we are is evolving. And so my biggest takeaway
Speaker 1: is get with it, evolve with us, like don't be,
Speaker 1: don't try, and like stay back at the old update.
Speaker 1: Every time your phone gets an update, update your phone,
Speaker 1: update your life, update your brain. Okay, so that's my
Speaker 1: biggest takeaway. Every time your phone has a new update,
Speaker 1: you update your new phone. So update yourself, all right,
Speaker 1: you want you don't want to miss out on the
Speaker 1: cool emojis or the new languages or the sick dark mode.
Speaker 1: That's like what life is like. You gotta get that.
Speaker 1: You gotta get that update going. So that's my biggest takeaway.
Speaker 1: My next takeaway is that if you don't know where
Speaker 1: to start, start by just making an effort. Simply making
Speaker 1: an effort is a meaningful thing, and it's okay to
Speaker 1: make mistakes. I've made tons of mistakes on my journey
Speaker 1: and I probably am going to continue making mistakes. But
Speaker 1: the main focus is that you make an effort and
Speaker 1: you lead with a kind heart, which is going to
Speaker 1: make the world a better place. The more people who
Speaker 1: are open allies, the safer that this world becomes for
Speaker 1: all of us. And my last takeaway is that the
Speaker 1: world is constantly evolving. Everything about it. So our culture
Speaker 1: is evolving, who we are is evolving, our language is evolving.
Speaker 1: So don't get stuck back in like the old ways.
Speaker 1: Don't try and stick with what you used to know
Speaker 1: like constantly unlearned and relearn just like your phone. And uh.
Speaker 1: And this is the moment of the podcast that I
Speaker 1: know you're gonna love, Mila, where we do some shameless promo.
Speaker 1: I want you both to just promote the hell out
Speaker 1: of whatever you're doing right now, whatever it is that
Speaker 1: you want to help support or promote for your own careers,
Speaker 1: for your lives, for your friends lives, whatever it is,
Speaker 1: you both got some time to do it. Mila hit
Speaker 1: us all right, so you guys can follow me. You
Speaker 1: all can follow me at at the Mela Jam. T
Speaker 1: h E M I L A j A M. I
Speaker 1: am the only one. I just released a single called
Speaker 1: Number One. You can check it out and you can
Speaker 1: stream it until your heart's content on Spotify, Apple Music, iTunes,
Speaker 1: Amazon Music everywhere actually matter of fact, just go to iTunes,
Speaker 1: Apple Music or Spotify and just search Mila Jam. You
Speaker 1: can keep up with me. Um everything is at the
Speaker 1: Mela Jam. And I always say this be seen, be
Speaker 1: you be beautiful. Mm hmm, Lee Anthony, come on, keep
Speaker 1: that energy up. Let's so you can follow me at
Speaker 1: Bethany's see Myers and also at the Boocome Project. I'm
Speaker 1: definitely going to take some time to plug the Bocome
Speaker 1: Project here. I'm so proud of this business. It's a
Speaker 1: monthly subscription, it's a workouts in your home. There is
Speaker 1: not weight loss talk, there's not body bashing talk, there's
Speaker 1: not all the ship that the wellness industry feeds to you.
Speaker 1: You know, wellness just feeds off of insecurities, and this
Speaker 1: is very much about finding your strength and being exactly
Speaker 1: who you are. And I'm also really proud to say
Speaker 1: that we've had so many people from the queer community
Speaker 1: participating in this workout, which obviously means a lot to me.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, I I always say that I
Speaker 1: think queer people have the hardest time existing in their
Speaker 1: own bodies, especially people underneath the trans umbrella, and so
Speaker 1: this can be a really great way to feel at
Speaker 1: home in your own space. Your own space meaning your
Speaker 1: body is your own space, you know, and to be
Speaker 1: able to feel it over there spit and fired both
Speaker 1: of my guests today. Thank you both so much for
Speaker 1: coming on the podcast today, and thank you for listening
Speaker 1: to the podcast. If you're listening to it right now,
Speaker 1: we will see you next time. Until then, we really
Speaker 1: want you to get the help you need, so if
Speaker 1: you need help, please seek independent advice from a competent
Speaker 1: healthcare or mental health professional. The views and opinions expressed
Speaker 1: in this podcast are solely those of the podcast author
Speaker 1: or individuals participating in the podcast, and do not represent
Speaker 1: the opinions of I heart Media or its employees. This
Speaker 1: podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, counseling,
Speaker 1: or therapy. Listening to the podcast does not established dr
Speaker 1: patient relationship with hosts or guests of alex IONO, Let's
Speaker 1: Get Into It or I Heart Media. No guarantee is
Speaker 1: given regarding the accuracy of any statements or opinions made
Speaker 1: on this podcast. Oh if that's a doozy.