WEBVTT - Beyond the Binary with Mila Jam + Bethany C. Meyers 0:00:00.920 --> 0:00:03.480 My name is Alex, and my pronouns are he him his. 0:00:04.880 --> 0:00:14.520 No be al no alright, no, be alright forever, no 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:24.880 be al alright, no, be alright forever. I was raised 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:29.480 in a very very conservative religion, in a very very 0:00:29.520 --> 0:00:35.160 conservative state, even in a very conservative community. I think 0:00:35.200 --> 0:00:37.680 that the only saving grace that I had was probably 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:39.920 that I had two parents who raised us to follow 0:00:39.920 --> 0:00:43.479 our heart and be inclusive and love everybody. And they 0:00:43.560 --> 0:00:47.000 raised us to know the difference between what you're being 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:50.360 told is right and what actually feels right in your heart. 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:54.560 And that really is the preface for my experience growing up, 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.880 or I guess unlearning and relearning the things that I 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:02.080 thought I knew, but now I'm continuing to learn about 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:06.160 the lgbt Q plus community. So being raised in Arizona 0:01:06.200 --> 0:01:10.039 in a very very conservative religion, it was gnarly like 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:13.600 you really were raised to believe that there was only 0:01:13.840 --> 0:01:17.480 two genders, and there's only one sexuality, which is straight, 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:19.759 and you you know, if it's if you're a man, 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:21.280 you love a woman, if you're a woman, you love 0:01:21.280 --> 0:01:24.240 a man, and there's no other options if you want to, 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:28.080 you know, receive exaltation or you know, go to paradise 0:01:28.120 --> 0:01:31.280 when you die, and as a kid, you know you're 0:01:31.319 --> 0:01:34.759 you're raised to believe whatever the people above you are 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:37.680 telling you. It wasn't until the two thousand and eight 0:01:37.760 --> 0:01:42.319 election where there was Proposition eight for California Proposition one 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:44.560 O two for Arizona. At the time, I was living 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:47.400 in Arizona, So Proposition one O two in Arizona was 0:01:47.480 --> 0:01:50.720 a proposition that was designed to ban gay marriage in 0:01:50.760 --> 0:01:54.440 the state of Arizona. And as you can tell, from 0:01:54.520 --> 0:01:59.520 a red conservative state that is predominantly very conservative, that 0:01:59.560 --> 0:02:03.120 propos aition was passed. But I remembered in that lobbying 0:02:03.160 --> 0:02:07.400 period for the two thousand eight election, I remember, you know, 0:02:07.520 --> 0:02:10.880 church groups. I remember my friends like going out and 0:02:10.960 --> 0:02:14.800 holding signs that say yes on one oh two, which 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:16.600 I guess when you're a kid, you just read yes 0:02:16.639 --> 0:02:20.119 on one oh two. But reality is, the hate that 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:22.519 that sign could carry was something that I couldn't even 0:02:22.520 --> 0:02:25.600 fathom as a twelve year old kid. My parents we 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:28.920 didn't partake in any of those things. My parents knew 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.200 what the deal was and so we didn't partake in 0:02:32.280 --> 0:02:36.160 it at all. I actually remember my parents tricked us. 0:02:36.240 --> 0:02:38.320 This is a complete side note my parents tricked us 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:40.760 took us to the LLL cool J concert. This is 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:42.440 how cool my parents are. They took us to the 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:44.840 L cool J concert, but they wanted to surprise us, 0:02:44.919 --> 0:02:47.400 so they told us that we had to go. They 0:02:47.440 --> 0:02:49.679 were going to drop us off to go and hold 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:51.799 the signs for yes on one O two. We were 0:02:51.880 --> 0:02:54.799 so bummed, like we were the most bummed kids in 0:02:54.840 --> 0:02:57.640 the world. And then we get in the car and 0:02:57.800 --> 0:03:01.720 they started driving towards the Arizona County Fair and we 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:03.560 were like, wait a second, what's going out here? And 0:03:03.600 --> 0:03:05.720 they totally tricked us. We went out to ll cool 0:03:05.760 --> 0:03:09.000 J concert. Like, honestly, Martin and Heather Iono fucking coolest 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:12.480 parents in the world. So that was really my first 0:03:12.520 --> 0:03:16.600 experience in terms of recognizing that there was an argument 0:03:16.680 --> 0:03:20.000 for or against people who loved the way that they 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.600 felt their heart needed to love or be the person 0:03:22.639 --> 0:03:25.080 that their heart tells them they need to be, or 0:03:25.080 --> 0:03:27.440 that they are not even need to be that they are. 0:03:28.280 --> 0:03:30.639 And then I guess when I moved to Los Angeles, 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:34.440 my heart started realizing what felt right and what didn't 0:03:34.480 --> 0:03:37.400 feel right. And as I looked back at my friends 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:42.040 in Arizona who were still throwing around like derogatory terms 0:03:42.160 --> 0:03:45.600 and using the word gay to define anything that wasn't cool, 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:48.680 like or or that they didn't like that. I started 0:03:48.720 --> 0:03:52.200 feeling in my chest like that's not cool, that's not right, 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:55.120 that's not inclusive, that's not loving, that's not any of 0:03:55.160 --> 0:03:57.560 the things that my parents taught me to be. And 0:03:57.600 --> 0:03:59.960 I think as soon as that switch flipped for me, 0:04:00.760 --> 0:04:04.880 I immediately shifted into wanting to figure out how I 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.720 can support, how I can help fight for the rights 0:04:08.960 --> 0:04:13.960 of all people, regardless of how they identify themselves. It 0:04:14.040 --> 0:04:17.680 made me immediately turn around and want to figure out 0:04:17.720 --> 0:04:20.920 any possible way that I could support or help fight 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:24.000 for the rights of the people who are beyond the 0:04:24.040 --> 0:04:27.799 binary of traditional gender norms. So I became an ally 0:04:27.839 --> 0:04:30.360 to the l g B t Q plus community, and 0:04:30.440 --> 0:04:33.840 I met people who immediately just enriched my life's They 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:36.400 upgraded my life, my view on the world, and just 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:39.280 my view on life in general. Having fun. I got 0:04:39.279 --> 0:04:40.800 to write on the I Heart float at the New 0:04:40.880 --> 0:04:42.960 York City Pride Parade last year, and it was just 0:04:43.000 --> 0:04:45.520 like the most fun. I mean, you're surrounded by people 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:52.000 who specialize in loving everybody, including everybody and the amount 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.960 that you can learn in terms of inclusiveness and loving 0:04:56.000 --> 0:04:58.960 people for who they are, however they are, and however 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.800 they choose to love of is something that you won't 0:05:01.839 --> 0:05:05.239 be able to learn anywhere else. And that got me thinking, 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:07.680 how special would it be if we did an episode 0:05:07.680 --> 0:05:09.880 here on the show where we explore some of this, 0:05:10.000 --> 0:05:12.080 Because I know not everybody has a chance to meet 0:05:12.200 --> 0:05:15.320 or become friends with someone who's trans or non binary 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:17.760 or gender queer, or maybe they're just not the most 0:05:18.240 --> 0:05:20.120 educated when it comes to the l g B t 0:05:20.240 --> 0:05:22.880 Q plus community. Uh So I wanted to have an 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.359 episode about that. And you might notice that I take 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:27.720 quite a bit of a backseat on this one because 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.840 as a straight cis gender man, cis gender meaning that 0:05:30.920 --> 0:05:34.040 my gender identity matches what I was assigned at birth. 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:43.240 This isn't my story to tell. No, No, what is up? Friends, 0:05:43.240 --> 0:05:45.800 It's alex IONO here. This is let's get into it. 0:05:45.800 --> 0:05:48.200 It is a podcast that I created where I can 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.680 just talk about life and what it's like to be 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:54.360 twenty four living in today's world. Right now, we are 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:59.320 all in our own respective homes, just quarantining and practicing 0:05:59.320 --> 0:06:02.719 self this and seeing social distancing, self distancing. I'm losing 0:06:02.760 --> 0:06:05.159 my mind right now at this point. But when I 0:06:05.200 --> 0:06:08.000 say we, I have two amazing, amazing guests. You know 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:10.279 that I always bring on friends, either their new friends 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:11.839 or they are friends I've had for a while to 0:06:11.880 --> 0:06:15.040 talk about topics that they can give better insight on. Uh. 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:17.200 And one of them is one of my very very 0:06:17.200 --> 0:06:20.159 close friends, Ladies and gentlemen, the one and only the 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:24.520 Queen of Sugar, your local Beyonce, my personal bond me, 0:06:24.839 --> 0:06:28.919 Mila jam How are you love? Hi? Everybody? I am 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:32.560 making do I'm doing all right. I'm hanging tight, I'm 0:06:32.560 --> 0:06:35.760 looking right and I'm feeling all right. Oh my god, 0:06:35.880 --> 0:06:38.120 she got the rhyme. She got the rhymes today. Uh. 0:06:38.240 --> 0:06:41.479 Mila was the star of my music video for her, 0:06:42.080 --> 0:06:44.919 which was a project that I wanted to help shine 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:47.520 some light uh and and and really step out as 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:49.600 an an ally for the l g B t Q 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:52.479 plus community. Uh And since then, she's just been my 0:06:52.560 --> 0:06:54.840 sweet bond me and uh And I've been loving seeing 0:06:54.839 --> 0:06:57.400 all of the music and and all of the music 0:06:57.480 --> 0:06:59.640 videos and everything, all of the art that you're creating. 0:07:00.160 --> 0:07:02.120 I'm so happy that you're here, but you are not 0:07:03.800 --> 0:07:05.600 You're not the only guest that I have here. I 0:07:05.640 --> 0:07:08.320 also have a new friend. I have not met this 0:07:08.360 --> 0:07:10.840 person yet, but I'm so happy to meet them right 0:07:10.880 --> 0:07:13.680 here on this podcast. Or while they are what is 0:07:13.680 --> 0:07:16.800 this called quarantining, Geez, Louise, I'm losing my mind. While 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:21.320 they're quarantining in their own home, I have Bethany Myers. 0:07:21.840 --> 0:07:24.640 Bethany is the founder and CEO of The Become Project 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.880 and a body neutral advocate. Bethany has Become Project is 0:07:27.920 --> 0:07:31.440 a fitness based movement program that is rooted in body neutrality. 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.120 They've been with their partner Nico Tortorella for thirteen years, 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:37.320 and together they host the podcast The Love Bomb, where 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.239 they discuss how they make their queer polyamorous relationship work. Bethany, 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:46.800 how are you hi? I'm you know, I'm not my best, 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:49.520 I'm not my worst. I'm just day by day. It 0:07:49.640 --> 0:07:51.400 is such an it is such an interesting time. I 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.760 just saw you posted. Uh, you posted a really sweet 0:07:54.800 --> 0:07:59.000 message from Twitter onto your Instagram account for the Become 0:07:59.080 --> 0:08:02.119 Project that just kind of references the anxiety that people 0:08:02.160 --> 0:08:04.320 may be feeling. Uh. And I just want to say 0:08:04.360 --> 0:08:06.600 I really appreciate that because I have not been able 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:09.560 to sleep through the night since this quarantine started, and 0:08:09.600 --> 0:08:12.440 so having that relatability to know that I'm not only 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:15.000 the only one who's dealing with the anxiety that is 0:08:15.040 --> 0:08:18.000 coming with this pandemic, it meant a lot to me. 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:19.760 So I just wanted to say thank you before we 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.360 get into all of this. But I really love what 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:24.280 you're doing the more research that I've done for the 0:08:24.320 --> 0:08:26.560 Become project, and we're gonna talk a lot more about that, 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:28.720 but before we do that, I want to talk about 0:08:28.760 --> 0:08:32.000 what today's episode is about and why I have my 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:34.640 two beautiful guests with me today. We are going to 0:08:34.720 --> 0:08:38.400 talk about gender identity. As I mentioned before, I am 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:40.760 a very very very proud ally to the l g 0:08:40.840 --> 0:08:44.440 b t Q plus community. I love the courage that 0:08:44.520 --> 0:08:47.240 I see throughout the community, and I want to partake 0:08:47.600 --> 0:08:49.920 as much as I can wherever I can, however I 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:54.280 can to help build up the fight for equality, equal rights, 0:08:54.360 --> 0:08:59.119 equal pay, equal opportunity for UM for everybody, and especially 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.920 in today's episode, highlighting UM that equal opportunity that I 0:09:02.920 --> 0:09:05.040 fight for for the l g B t Q plus community. 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:08.080 So I felt like it is very very appropriate and 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.400 only right if we each take our own turns to 0:09:10.440 --> 0:09:14.960 introduce ourselves and our our pronouns and kind of just 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:18.480 get a little comfortable with all of this. Yeah sounds good, Yeah, 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:22.079 let's do it. I am your local biance, Mila Jam everybody, 0:09:22.200 --> 0:09:25.400 what's good? I am she her hers, and I hope 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:30.079 that you're all doing amazing today. Beautiful Bethany, my name 0:09:30.160 --> 0:09:34.600 is Bethany Myers. My pronouns are they them, and they 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.720 do a ton of work in the fitness space. Um, 0:09:37.760 --> 0:09:42.040 but really surrounding body neutrality and how do we make 0:09:42.320 --> 0:09:47.280 movement about giving time to ourselves instead of punishing ourselves. 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.440 And I'm super excited to be here today, especially having 0:09:50.480 --> 0:09:55.480 gender talks because I love to talk about gender. Yeah. Um, 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:57.800 and I'm alex Iono. I use the pronouns he him 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:01.840 and his and uh And I a very very grateful 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:04.480 that I have you two here just to help shine 0:10:04.480 --> 0:10:07.200 more light. I think that for me especially, this is 0:10:07.280 --> 0:10:12.280 a constant unlearning and relearning of things that I maybe 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:15.720 thought I knew or knew before that are changing and 0:10:15.760 --> 0:10:18.760 ever changing. So I'm very very grateful that you guys 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:22.120 would both come on this podcast and help educate me more, 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:25.720 educate the listeners more. I'm just grateful. Overall, we have 0:10:25.840 --> 0:10:30.280 some beautiful, beautiful topics to talk about. UM. The first topic, Bethany, 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.280 you and I are gonna be talking about choosing comfortable labels. 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:35.800 Then after that, Mila, you and I are gonna be 0:10:35.800 --> 0:10:39.600 talking about seeing the representation and being the representation. And lastly, 0:10:39.679 --> 0:10:41.720 we're going to talk about how sis gender folks like 0:10:41.800 --> 0:10:45.280 me can just be better about furthering the conversation, being 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:46.920 a better ally to the l g B t Q 0:10:47.040 --> 0:10:49.680 plus community, and getting a little bit more inclusive with 0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:53.559 these topics. Does that sound cool with you guys? Amazing? Perfect? 0:10:53.559 --> 0:10:55.240 Before we get into it, though, I have a question 0:10:55.240 --> 0:10:58.160 that I ask all of my guests, uh, and it 0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:00.720 is a simple question for this week. What have you 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:04.000 been doing to improve your life? UM? A lot of 0:11:04.000 --> 0:11:07.520 it has been quarantine type stuff with the episodes that 0:11:07.559 --> 0:11:10.520 we've been recording, but I'll give you an example and 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:12.680 let you guys have some time to think. So this week, 0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.199 I'm very very fortunate. I have a Peloton bike that 0:11:15.240 --> 0:11:17.520 I've had for over a year now that I ride 0:11:17.720 --> 0:11:20.960 very very religiously, and this week I wanted to level 0:11:21.000 --> 0:11:23.880 that up, so I actually started P ninety X on 0:11:23.960 --> 0:11:26.000 top of it. So I'm doing two workouts a day, 0:11:26.200 --> 0:11:28.600 eating a ton of food, trying to stay healthy and 0:11:28.840 --> 0:11:31.559 honestly just not lose my mind because I've now been 0:11:31.559 --> 0:11:34.160 in my house for what is three and a half weeks, 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:38.640 So I am I'm very, very very adamant on getting 0:11:38.640 --> 0:11:40.960 my fitness right and hopefully coming out of this thing 0:11:40.960 --> 0:11:43.360 looking like the Rock or maybe like the Pebble. I 0:11:43.400 --> 0:11:45.440 guess if we're not going to be the complete you know, 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:49.360 the Dwayne the Rock, Johnson Alex the Pebble, I own no. Um. 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:52.120 So that is what I've been doing to improve myself 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.040 this week, Mila, you got something for me? Yeah? Yeah, 0:11:55.080 --> 0:11:58.800 I've been working on my memory skills, Like I get 0:11:58.840 --> 0:12:01.760 a lot of side sent to me for auditions, and 0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:03.720 like this is the perfect time for me to start 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:06.560 like honing my like ability to memorize stuff in short 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.520 periods of time. Audio stuff, Like I love to watch 0:12:09.640 --> 0:12:12.640 video clips like on TikTok and all this stuff and 0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:14.600 then replay them over and over and over again and 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.640 see how like long it takes me to remember the 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.720 like like like learning a song, but like learning the 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:22.600 words or the dialogue in the scene and then just 0:12:22.640 --> 0:12:24.920 going over a bunch of sides that I get throughout 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:27.720 my agency and my my agents when they send me stuff. 0:12:27.880 --> 0:12:30.480 And so I feel like when I'm normally running from 0:12:30.480 --> 0:12:33.480 place to place, I never have time to actually like 0:12:33.720 --> 0:12:37.800 just really like dive into like text and like inflections 0:12:37.840 --> 0:12:39.640 and like what am I feeling in this? And how 0:12:39.640 --> 0:12:41.559 do I deliver this to make it sound good? And 0:12:41.960 --> 0:12:43.840 the artists and the musician in me gets all like 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:46.000 musical about it and everything, and so I have the 0:12:46.040 --> 0:12:47.800 time to do it. And so that's I've just been 0:12:47.840 --> 0:12:53.760 working on memorizing text. I love that. I love that. Really, 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:56.040 it really is like a great I have never heard 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:59.480 somebody give me on this show and answer that makes 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:01.800 me go, damn, I never have even thought about doing. 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.440 You can be the rock and I'm my Angelou. I'm 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:08.960 just gonna I'm gonna work on I have a feeling 0:13:08.960 --> 0:13:10.600 me that's going to be given us a singers all 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.400 episode long, Bethany, what have you been up to to 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:17.040 better your life? Well? I will say, you know, this 0:13:17.080 --> 0:13:21.199 is week three of Quarantine. As we're recording this week one, 0:13:21.520 --> 0:13:25.600 I was like energizer bunny person with a plan, like 0:13:25.960 --> 0:13:28.440 you know, just so go go go and here's all 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:31.720 the things we're gonna do. And then week two it 0:13:31.840 --> 0:13:35.120 was full burnout, I mean just crash, like crying every 0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:38.600 single day, couldn't get anything done, didn't feel motivated at all, 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:41.040 which is actually kind of a theme that happens in 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:43.040 my life. I tend to lake burn the candle at 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:47.440 both ends and then crash. So this week I've really 0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:49.240 i mean, this is like a simple thing, but I'm 0:13:49.240 --> 0:13:52.360 really trying to make a commitment to balance and routine. 0:13:53.320 --> 0:13:56.280 And so it's which has sounded a lot like, you know, 0:13:56.400 --> 0:13:59.360 kind of laying out a schedule for my day and 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.960 starting my morning peacefully as opposed to jumping into work 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.360 right away. I think it's been really helpful just for 0:14:06.400 --> 0:14:08.920 like my overall anxiety and kind of keeping my feet 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:11.960 on the ground. But yeah, balance and routine are the 0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:14.080 two main things that I'm really trying to work for. 0:14:14.280 --> 0:14:19.000 Simple but very important. That's very important for quarantine life. 0:14:19.520 --> 0:14:24.040 Routine is important. I'll got some y'all got some amazing answers. Uh, 0:14:24.200 --> 0:14:26.640 let's get straight into it. Honestly, Milo, we will be 0:14:26.680 --> 0:14:28.760 with you in just a second. But Bethany first, it's 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:30.600 you and I one on one, and we're gonna be 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:34.080 talking about labels. So you've said before you do not 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:37.680 love labels. Um, they do help others understand you, but 0:14:37.720 --> 0:14:40.200 they should not define you in any way, shape or form. 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:44.480 How did you land on your current labels? Oh that's 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:48.760 a great question. Um, yeah, I think labels are It's funny. 0:14:48.800 --> 0:14:51.720 There's so much going on with language right now, just 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.520 like as a society. You know, the word of the 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:59.240 year last year was them, And I think it's really 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.200 helpful right now, specifically looking at it from a queer lens, 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:07.280 to use labels to help us figure this out, you know, 0:15:07.360 --> 0:15:09.280 and to help us to be able to put words 0:15:09.320 --> 0:15:13.040 to something that we really haven't had words for before. 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:15.760 But my dream is like to be able to live 0:15:15.800 --> 0:15:18.080 in this world where there aren't labels and we don't 0:15:18.200 --> 0:15:21.120 have to define you know this boy and girl and 0:15:21.160 --> 0:15:23.720 male and female and this or that gay or straight. 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:27.720 We can just be. I think right now labels for me, 0:15:27.840 --> 0:15:32.000 I mean using non binary. I really love also the 0:15:32.120 --> 0:15:35.680 term gender fluid and gender neutral, just because I love 0:15:35.720 --> 0:15:37.920 the word neutral in general. I use it in so 0:15:37.960 --> 0:15:41.560 many different aspects of life. I love that is there 0:15:41.600 --> 0:15:44.080 a moment that that really like stuck out to you, 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:47.920 but I think for me it was really it resonated 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:51.800 with me, you know, the she her pronouns, things that 0:15:51.840 --> 0:15:54.680 were like super female based never really felt quite right. 0:15:55.200 --> 0:15:59.680 And I think being able to give myself sort of 0:15:59.720 --> 0:16:05.320 this genderless space has really opened up just my overall 0:16:05.360 --> 0:16:08.400 perception of the things that I enjoy. So, like a 0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:12.400 really small example would be the last year I started 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:15.320 growing out my leg hair, which is like something I 0:16:15.400 --> 0:16:17.760 previously never really thought I would do because I'm a 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:21.320 very very hairy person with like really dark hair. And 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.760 I think that the non binary label actually kind of 0:16:25.800 --> 0:16:29.600 helped me accept that more in in some way, um, 0:16:29.640 --> 0:16:32.640 it was like, well, it doesn't really matter, right, like 0:16:32.720 --> 0:16:36.760 what is male and female, especially specifically for myself, And 0:16:37.000 --> 0:16:40.080 I think it's allowed me to kind of move outside 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:43.360 of the box of my preconceived notions of you know, 0:16:43.520 --> 0:16:46.720 what I am supposed to be? Are my trained notions, right? 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:49.240 These societal standards that we've grown up with of how 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:54.160 we have to look behavior, act, Yeah, yeah, No, I 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:55.960 mean I definitely agree with you, though. I think that 0:16:56.080 --> 0:17:01.440 societal standards in your situation are absolute lead to constricted 0:17:01.520 --> 0:17:06.119 and and also in the regular life of every human being, 0:17:06.200 --> 0:17:09.360 all across the gender unicorn as I like to use 0:17:09.359 --> 0:17:12.000 that term. I spent some time talking with Aaron Rose 0:17:12.080 --> 0:17:16.400 last year in preparation to to really step out more 0:17:16.560 --> 0:17:21.240 than just supporting, but actually being an outward um vocal 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.119 ally for the lgbt Q plus community and learning that 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:27.520 societal standards are not only constricting for people who don't 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.240 fall within the traditional gender model, but for those of 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:32.719 us who do. But before we get more into that, 0:17:32.920 --> 0:17:35.720 I wanna I want to discuss kind of your journey 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:40.000 into finding the labels or deciding the labels that you 0:17:40.040 --> 0:17:42.480 wanted to go by, And for those who may be 0:17:42.560 --> 0:17:45.840 wondering what the differences between trans and non binary and 0:17:45.920 --> 0:17:48.720 gay and straight and CIS gender are. When we talk 0:17:48.760 --> 0:17:52.720 about someone who's gender nonconforming or non binary or trans 0:17:52.920 --> 0:17:56.760 or CIS or cis gender, we're talking about gender identity. 0:17:56.840 --> 0:17:59.760 That is who you are. When we talk about gay 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.480 or lesbian or straight, we're actually talking about who a 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.600 person is attracted to. What was your what was your 0:18:05.600 --> 0:18:08.119 process going through life that got you to where you 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:10.320 are today, and how much more comfortable you are with 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:13.360 the labels and with your like you're saying everything from 0:18:13.480 --> 0:18:16.760 using pronouns like they in them to even just leaving 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:19.439 your leg hairs to grow and be the beautiful body 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:22.200 that you you know that God gave you. Yeah, well 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.680 it was certainly a slow burn, to say the least. 0:18:24.880 --> 0:18:29.639 I was raised in a very very religious setting, almost 0:18:30.119 --> 0:18:33.880 like a bit verging on cultish, a ton of rules, 0:18:33.880 --> 0:18:36.200 a ton of restrictions, a lot of like you can 0:18:36.320 --> 0:18:38.960 go here, you cannot go here. But like growing up, 0:18:39.000 --> 0:18:42.440 I was certainly knocking on people's doors asking if they 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:46.080 were going to heaven or hell. And I really didn't 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:51.640 have like any knowledge whatsoever of a world outside of 0:18:51.640 --> 0:18:56.640 this very very conservative Christian bubble that I lived in. 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.199 Like I wasn't allowed to go to the movie theater, 0:18:59.480 --> 0:19:03.280 or to take dance classes, or to wear you know, 0:19:03.520 --> 0:19:08.440 pants as opposed to a skirt kind of thing. So yeah, 0:19:08.480 --> 0:19:11.120 like I mean, it was it was pretty intense. And 0:19:11.200 --> 0:19:14.719 so there was like several different moments in my life 0:19:14.800 --> 0:19:17.800 where I was really shocked by the world. Like the 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.679 first one, I ended up transferring to a public school 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:24.720 from my very very small Christian school of like thirty people. Um. 0:19:24.760 --> 0:19:26.840 I ended up transferring to a public school when I 0:19:26.880 --> 0:19:29.600 was sixteen years old, and that was the first time 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:34.240 where i'd like, you know, seeing a classroom where boys 0:19:34.280 --> 0:19:37.440 and girls could sit wherever they want, Like they could 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:39.800 sit mixed up, you know, not separated boys on the 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.280 left and girls on the right kind of thing. And 0:19:42.320 --> 0:19:46.080 then I would write so so like public school was 0:19:46.119 --> 0:19:49.760 a huge shock for me. And then I moved to Chicago, 0:19:50.680 --> 0:19:53.640 which is actually where I met Nico, my spouse, fourteen 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:56.360 years ago, and that was that was the first time 0:19:56.359 --> 0:19:59.760 that I met a gay person. And I remember well 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:01.679 that I knew that I met a gay person, like 0:20:01.720 --> 0:20:05.640 surely I met gay people before, you know, I didn't know. 0:20:06.240 --> 0:20:09.000 And you know, I had just been raised under this 0:20:09.040 --> 0:20:14.800 assumption that gay people were um they had fallen so 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:19.680 deeply into sin that their ultimate punishment was God made 0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:24.080 them gay. That's how I understood what queer was. And 0:20:24.160 --> 0:20:27.040 so and then I like, you know, I went to Chicago, 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:29.600 and I like met queer people and I was like, oh, wow, 0:20:30.119 --> 0:20:31.960 they're not the devil, you know. It was it was 0:20:32.040 --> 0:20:34.840 just this moment where I was like, hmmm, that's interesting. 0:20:35.600 --> 0:20:38.080 And then that was also the first time that I 0:20:38.160 --> 0:20:41.800 recognized that I had feelings for a woman. It was 0:20:41.960 --> 0:20:45.480 New Year's Eve. She was kissing a guy she was 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:47.480 a close friend. She was kissing a guy and I 0:20:47.520 --> 0:20:50.199 was sitting there watching them, and I was like so jealous. 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:53.679 And the moment I felt those jealous feelings, it was 0:20:53.720 --> 0:20:55.919 like I need to push that down and bury it. 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.240 You know, I don't know what's what's going on there. 0:20:58.760 --> 0:21:01.800 And then over time it was just this slow progression 0:21:02.040 --> 0:21:04.200 and what kind of a reaction did those feelings make 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.639 you have? I think something that often happens with queer 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.560 people and that certainly happened with myself, is we're so 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:14.520 often told that we're not able to explore our gender roles, 0:21:14.560 --> 0:21:17.240 were not able to explore, you know, somebody of the 0:21:17.320 --> 0:21:22.680 same sex, and so it becomes, um, it becomes so 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.920 taboo that the only way you're able to explore it 0:21:26.000 --> 0:21:31.240 is through using, you know, some type of substance. I 0:21:31.280 --> 0:21:33.000 mean not that that happens to everyone, but I think 0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:34.679 it happens to a lot of people. So I know, 0:21:34.840 --> 0:21:38.440 certainly for me, it was like, let's get wasted so 0:21:38.480 --> 0:21:40.639 that way I don't have to actually know what I'm doing, 0:21:40.720 --> 0:21:42.639