WEBVTT - 02: Amazon’s Illegal Union Busting 0:00:01.080 --> 0:00:05.640 I want to thank every Amazon employee and every Amazon 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:10.760 customer because you guys paid progress. You guys paid problems. 0:00:12.320 --> 0:00:16.360 This is Megacorp, an investigative podcast exposing some of the 0:00:16.360 --> 0:00:22.840 world's most unethical corporations. This series is about Amazon. I'm 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:30.120 Jake Hanrahan, journalists and documentary filmmaker. Megacorp is produced by 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:41.680 H eleven for cool Zone Media. As we heard in 0:00:41.800 --> 0:00:46.559 the previous episode, Amazon workers are under a lot of pressure. 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:51.760 That overworked, they're constantly monitored, and they don't have job security. 0:00:52.479 --> 0:00:56.120 To combat this, Amazon workers across the world have begun 0:00:56.200 --> 0:01:00.440 to organize. Many of them want a union. If they 0:01:00.440 --> 0:01:02.960 were unionized, it would give the workers more power to 0:01:03.040 --> 0:01:09.600 negotiate better working conditions, job security, and increased wages. Now, 0:01:09.640 --> 0:01:12.839 if you're unfamiliar with what a union is, I don't 0:01:12.959 --> 0:01:16.680 blame you. These days, workers unions are far less common 0:01:16.680 --> 0:01:19.039 than they used to be, although they do seem to 0:01:19.080 --> 0:01:22.520 be making a sort of comeback in recent years. Anyway, 0:01:22.640 --> 0:01:28.200 let me explain briefly what they are. Ensure. Unions are 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:30.959 groups of workers that come together in a bid to 0:01:31.000 --> 0:01:34.360 get a better deal at their place of work. They're 0:01:34.360 --> 0:01:37.360 not against working, they're not being lazy. They just want 0:01:37.400 --> 0:01:41.280 a fairer time at their jobs. Where unions are active, 0:01:41.440 --> 0:01:44.480 the workers have somewhere outside of the company they're employed 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:47.919 by to help sort out any issues and to build 0:01:47.920 --> 0:01:52.560 a better work community. Members usually elect union representatives that 0:01:52.600 --> 0:01:56.920 they can go to to solve problems, or alternatively, people 0:01:57.040 --> 0:02:01.080 volunteered to be the rep Often, unions give the people 0:02:01.240 --> 0:02:04.800 at the bottom of the workplace some leverage over those 0:02:04.920 --> 0:02:08.760 at the top. If you listen to the previous episode, 0:02:08.919 --> 0:02:12.920 you can probably imagine why Amazon workers have been pushing 0:02:13.160 --> 0:02:17.000 to unionize in many different places. It will also probably 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:21.000 be no surprise that Amazon is trying desperately to stop 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:25.519 the unions. When a company actively tries to disrupt union organizing, 0:02:26.000 --> 0:02:29.799 it's often referred to as union busting. This is something 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:36.639 Amazon knows all about. Eighteen and internal anti union Amazon 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:41.160 video was leaked onto the internet. The video is essentially 0:02:41.200 --> 0:02:45.240 a training guide on how to stop workers unionizing. The 0:02:45.320 --> 0:02:48.639 video was sent to managers at the company Whole Foods, 0:02:48.680 --> 0:02:55.880 amidst the initial stages of worker organization around June. Whole 0:02:55.919 --> 0:03:00.440 Foods was brought up by Amazon in seventeen for urteen 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:06.120 point seven billion dollars. The anti union video is forty 0:03:06.200 --> 0:03:09.840 five minutes long, and it's split up into six different parts. 0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:14.640 The whole thing is animated. It's quite surreal. It's pretty odd. 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:19.120 It takes place in a two D Amazon warehouse, where 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:22.680 the narrator says, the purpose of the video is quote 0:03:23.040 --> 0:03:26.280 specifically designed to give you the tools that you need 0:03:26.320 --> 0:03:30.240 for success when it comes to labor organizing end quote. 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.240 Now I don't mean to sound shreal or exaggerated here, 0:03:34.280 --> 0:03:37.240 but there really is something a little bit or well 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:41.560 Ian in the way this video portrays itself. It's essentially 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:45.280 a guide that Amazon has created to help recognize when 0:03:45.640 --> 0:03:48.600 workers unions are beginning to form in a workplace, but 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.840 not so they can help them, so they can stop them. 0:03:51.920 --> 0:03:54.880 Yet the language used in the video acts as if 0:03:54.920 --> 0:03:58.000 it's somehow an ally of the workers. When they say 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.240 they're helping give companies the tools they need for success 0:04:01.280 --> 0:04:03.960 when it comes to label organizing, what they mean by 0:04:04.040 --> 0:04:13.600 success is success in basically crushing unions. Now, let's have 0:04:13.680 --> 0:04:19.080 a listen to some of the internal anti union Amazon video. Welcome. 0:04:19.640 --> 0:04:22.560 We're excited to have you with this training specifically designed 0:04:22.600 --> 0:04:24.600 to give you the tools that you need for success 0:04:24.720 --> 0:04:28.480 when it comes to labor organizing. During this course will 0:04:28.480 --> 0:04:32.000 cover several important topics such as our position on unions, 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:36.520 associate rights, signs of employee disengagement, and how do identify, 0:04:36.880 --> 0:04:40.800 escalate and address associate concerns. We are not anti union, 0:04:41.360 --> 0:04:44.320 but we are not neutral either. We will boldly defend 0:04:44.320 --> 0:04:47.440 our direct relationship with associates as best for the associate, 0:04:47.640 --> 0:04:50.800 the business, and our shareholders. Right. Notice what they just 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:54.839 said that they're not anti union, but they're not neutral either. 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.440 Obviously not as they wouldn't be making these training video. 0:04:58.839 --> 0:05:01.280 So they're saying they're not t union and they're not 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:05.479 neutral in a video about training employees to try and 0:05:05.560 --> 0:05:10.919 suss out and stop unionizing in the workplace. Again, not 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:14.880 to sound all dramatic, but this is literally double speak. 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:18.440 It's the way politicians talk when they're defending the indefensible 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.600 in the media. This is bullshit. They're trying to soften 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:25.880 the blow of what is clearly an anti union training video, 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.799 and frankly, to say otherwise is a bit of an insult, 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:32.880 but that's the way they framed it. Anyway, Let's listen on. 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:35.440 We do not believe unions are in the best interest 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:39.200 of our customers are shareholders are most importantly our associates. 0:05:39.279 --> 0:05:43.440 Our business model is built upon speed, innovation and customer obsession. 0:05:43.480 --> 0:05:47.159 Customer obsession things that are generally not associated with the unions. 0:05:47.720 --> 0:05:50.200 When we lose sight of those critical focus areas, we 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.599 jeopardize everyone's job security. Okay, so they've just said that 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:58.760 that everyone's job security at Amazon is in jeopardy when 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:03.760 speed in a ation and customer obsession are lost site 0:06:03.800 --> 0:06:08.000 of Now, the way this too d Amazon presentation reels 0:06:08.080 --> 0:06:11.200 that off, it's quite easy to miss the point. That 0:06:11.360 --> 0:06:15.279 sentence seems fairly innocuous the way they read it. However, 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:20.400 in my opinion here, the subtext of that sentence is this, 0:06:21.160 --> 0:06:24.599 if a union gains power within the workplace and they 0:06:24.640 --> 0:06:31.279 prioritize anything other than speed, innovation and customer obsession, people 0:06:31.360 --> 0:06:35.599 might get fired. They don't want unions focusing on anything 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:41.440 else like workers safety, improved conditions, and better wages. That 0:06:41.480 --> 0:06:45.359 would take time away from efficiency. And if that happens, 0:06:45.520 --> 0:06:48.919 people are going to get fired. Now, I could be 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.720 very wrong. Like I said, that's just my opinion of 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.159 the subtext there, but I'm not sure how else to 0:06:55.200 --> 0:06:59.560 take it. Remember, as well, this was an internal video 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:03.200 at Amazon not meant to see the light of day 0:07:03.360 --> 0:07:07.160 in the public. I think that gives you more context 0:07:07.279 --> 0:07:11.120 to what's being said here. Also, anyway, let's hear more. 0:07:11.600 --> 0:07:14.120 We don't bad mouth unions in general, but we will 0:07:14.120 --> 0:07:18.200 speak openly with associates about unions, including any specific concerns 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:22.120 about particular unions involved in organizing, and we share our 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.880 preference for a direct working relationship frequently and boldly, even 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:28.520 when no organizing activity has occurred. You will learn about 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:32.000 the warning signs most commonly associated with early union organizing, 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.720 as well as other warning signs that could indicate associate disengagement, 0:07:36.080 --> 0:07:41.040 vulnerability to organizing, or early organizing activity. While employees have 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:43.840 the right to organize, we have a right and responsibility 0:07:43.880 --> 0:07:46.560 to share our position that a direct working relationship is 0:07:46.600 --> 0:07:49.920 better for the customer, the company, and the associate. In 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.280 order to be able to do that effectively, it is 0:07:52.280 --> 0:07:55.280 critical that we recognize the early warning signs of potential 0:07:55.360 --> 0:08:00.920 organizing and escalate concerns promptly, warning signs earlier new organizing, 0:08:01.200 --> 0:08:05.880 vulnerability to organize. In the way Amazon is talking about this, 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.000 it sounds like they think unions are some kind of disease. 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.200 I don't know. It's quite odd listening to it like this. Now. 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.800 I get Amazon is a private company. They have the 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:19.040 right to dislike and even hate unions if they want to. 0:08:19.640 --> 0:08:22.880 But as you can see, this training video shows that 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:26.559 their private face doesn't tally up with their public face. 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:30.800 Shock horror. Who's surprised? Now? Amazon presents this happy, people, 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:37.120 friendly corporation typeface, but this just isn't that. This next bit, though, 0:08:37.320 --> 0:08:41.800 I think, is really quite dark. If you see warning 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:45.400 signs of potential organizing, notify you're building hr M and 0:08:45.559 --> 0:08:49.160 GM site leader immediately. Hr M s and g M 0:08:49.200 --> 0:08:52.480 site leaders should notify their assigned e R managers or 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:56.760 e ER principle immediately. The most obvious signs would include 0:08:57.160 --> 0:09:00.680 use of words associated with unions, are union movements like 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:05.400 living wage or steward petitions, or other concerted activity, such 0:09:05.400 --> 0:09:07.920 as an associate purporting to speak on behalf of his 0:09:08.120 --> 0:09:14.440 or her coworkers when raising concerns. Union graffiti, union t shirts, hats, jackets, 0:09:14.520 --> 0:09:18.600 or other clothing union flyers and union visitors in or 0:09:18.640 --> 0:09:22.000 near the parking lot. Some signs are less obvious than 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:25.040 finding the actual union flyer, but they can still indicate 0:09:25.080 --> 0:09:29.480 associate disengagement, which is itself a warning sign for potential organizing. 0:09:29.960 --> 0:09:33.440 Examples include associates who normally aren't connected to each other 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:37.160 suddenly hanging out together, associates who are close suddenly stopped 0:09:37.160 --> 0:09:40.080 speaking to each other, groups of associate scatter when approached 0:09:40.080 --> 0:09:45.240 by management, increased associate negativity, anger or confrontation, unusual complaints 0:09:45.320 --> 0:09:48.920 or change in passion or detail around complaints, unusual interest 0:09:49.000 --> 0:09:52.920 and policies, benefits, employee lists or other company information, or 0:09:52.960 --> 0:09:55.880 any other associate behavior that is out of character. For example, 0:09:56.000 --> 0:09:59.000 an associate who normally leaves promptly begins hanging out in 0:09:59.000 --> 0:10:01.280 the brake room for an or after work each day. 0:10:01.559 --> 0:10:04.200 In order to recognize warning signs, it is critical that 0:10:04.200 --> 0:10:07.480 you know what an associates normal behavior looks like. Often 0:10:07.559 --> 0:10:09.320 it is the change in behavior that is the warning 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:12.920 sign more than the actual behavior itself. Now, if that 0:10:12.960 --> 0:10:17.160 doesn't sound authoritarian, I don't know what does. Their training 0:10:17.320 --> 0:10:21.640 and encouraging workers to literally spy on each other. They 0:10:21.679 --> 0:10:26.120 suggest monitoring their behavior, their clothes, and even what words 0:10:26.160 --> 0:10:29.040 they use to try and work out if they're involved 0:10:29.120 --> 0:10:32.800 in union organizing or not, and they say they're not 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:36.480 anti union. At the end there it goes as far 0:10:36.600 --> 0:10:40.480 as to suggest that manages second guess the motivations of 0:10:40.520 --> 0:10:44.120 the workers by watching to see if anything changes in 0:10:44.200 --> 0:10:48.920 their behavior, even if they have not said anything regarding unionizing. 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:51.640 In order to recognize warning signs, it is critical that 0:10:51.640 --> 0:10:54.920 you know what an associates normal behavior looks like. Often 0:10:55.000 --> 0:10:56.800 it is the change in behavior that is the warning 0:10:56.840 --> 0:11:00.440 sign more than the actual behavior itself. That and say 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:03.400 that workers must inform on each other if they spot 0:11:03.440 --> 0:11:06.080 any of this behavior. It all sounds a little bit 0:11:06.160 --> 0:11:09.760 too much like the Stasi to me. And remember, this 0:11:09.920 --> 0:11:12.560 is just a company, This is not a government, this 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:14.760 is not a police force. Seems a little bit over 0:11:14.800 --> 0:11:18.200 the top. Something else are noticed, Only just at the 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:22.119 end there is that in the video of this Amazon presentation. 0:11:22.200 --> 0:11:25.240 You know, I said it was to the animated the 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:29.160 guy that is giving all this information to the viewer, 0:11:29.200 --> 0:11:31.720 which would be the members of the team that Amazon 0:11:31.920 --> 0:11:35.800 is trying to train too effectively union bust. The character 0:11:36.000 --> 0:11:40.720 is actually a worker on the warehouse floor in the 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:44.520 Amazon warehouse. Maybe that was intentional, maybe not, I don't know. 0:11:44.679 --> 0:11:47.280 It seems pretty fucked up to me. He's even wearing 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.720 a little high of his jacket. There are conveyor belts everywhere. 0:11:50.840 --> 0:11:54.319 It's an Amazon worker telling the managers how to stop 0:11:54.400 --> 0:12:02.040 him from organizing madness. To get a better understanding of 0:12:02.280 --> 0:12:05.440 where the Amazon unions are at right now, and also 0:12:05.520 --> 0:12:09.640 to hear about the Amazon union busting tactics, I spoke 0:12:09.760 --> 0:12:14.280 to journalists Dave Jamieson. He is a labor reporter for 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:17.640 her Post. Back in the day, there was a labor 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.840 reporter on pretty much every newspaper, every outlet. Nowadays it's 0:12:21.840 --> 0:12:23.880 more rare to see them, but it's a very important job, 0:12:23.960 --> 0:12:27.120 especially within journalism. It helps shine a light on bad 0:12:27.120 --> 0:12:30.000 practices as the ones we've just heard of in regards 0:12:30.000 --> 0:12:32.880 to Amazon. Let's see what you have to say. Let's 0:12:32.960 --> 0:12:37.559 let's kind of um begin with the union, the unionizing 0:12:37.640 --> 0:12:42.720 efforts that Amazon workers have been involved in. Okay, so um. 0:12:42.880 --> 0:12:49.400 In the US, Amazon does not have unionized workers. Amazon 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:53.920 deals with with unions overseas in some places, um like 0:12:53.920 --> 0:12:57.880 like in Europe. But in the US they've managed to 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.280 keep unions out as a lot of kind. But he's 0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:03.640 managed to do these days are our unionization rate in 0:13:03.679 --> 0:13:06.320 the US is just six percent in the private sector, 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:09.840 A lot of American workers these days could work their 0:13:09.880 --> 0:13:12.679 whole careers and and never be in a in a 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:15.720 in a union. We used to have much higher union density, 0:13:15.840 --> 0:13:18.760 like after World War Two, it was up into the 0:13:18.800 --> 0:13:22.920 thirty some odd percent um. It's much lower now and 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.280 that's in part because the employers have gotten you know, 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.120 more aggressive, I think over the years in terms of 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:32.439 trying to beat back union drives. And so it was 0:13:32.520 --> 0:13:36.000 kind of no mystery that you know, Amazon wanted to 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:40.200 keep unions out like any any kind of big growing 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:43.880 employer in the US. So it came as a as 0:13:43.920 --> 0:13:46.480 a bit of a surprise when when this union, the 0:13:46.520 --> 0:13:50.160 retail wholesale and Department store union, filed for a union 0:13:50.200 --> 0:13:54.320 election at a warehouse down in Alabama, in this town 0:13:54.360 --> 0:13:59.160 called Bessemer, right outside of Birmingham. Because there had never 0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:03.560 been a a union election at a a major Amazon 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:07.000 facility like this with the unit that we call wall 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.480 to wall, were like everybody inside there, pretty much outside 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:13.760 of management, would be in the union if the union one. 0:14:14.320 --> 0:14:17.880 And so this was like a really big deal, uh, 0:14:17.960 --> 0:14:20.880 not just for labor, but it had big advocations for Amazon. 0:14:21.040 --> 0:14:23.280 They want to keep unions from getting any toe hold 0:14:23.480 --> 0:14:28.160 inside their facilities. Right in the US, unions would have 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.680 to unionize these facilities one by one, So it would 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:33.960 still be a few thousand workers out of nearly a 0:14:34.000 --> 0:14:36.720 million in the US that would be covered by a union. 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:38.920 But the fear for a company like Amazon is that 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.760 this is gonna spread, right that if if if a 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:44.600 union can break into one facility, that they're gonna start 0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.200 popping up and winning elections at other facilities. So this 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:51.960 became like really closely watched in the US, and it 0:14:52.000 --> 0:14:54.480 was kind of an unusual campaign because it was it 0:14:54.520 --> 0:14:58.120 was during the pandemic, so um, it was going to 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:02.000 be a kind of long now and voting process where 0:15:02.520 --> 0:15:05.600 where both the union and and the company we're going 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:10.120 to be making their cases to workers. And so even 0:15:10.160 --> 0:15:14.400 though we knew that that Amazon did did not want unions, 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:16.480 that they were going to try to keep unions out, 0:15:16.520 --> 0:15:19.640 this was kind of the first time really that Amazon 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:23.520 was forced to kind of get its hands dirty in public, uh, 0:15:23.760 --> 0:15:26.520 while they tried to fight off a union drive. Right right, 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:29.160 maybe you can give us some idea of the union 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.800 busting efforts to Amazon has going to When you look 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.520 at what Amazon did, I view it as simply a 0:15:35.600 --> 0:15:39.040 scaled up version of what your typical American employer will do. 0:15:39.360 --> 0:15:42.640 Amazon basically has bottomless resources, so they could throw tons 0:15:42.640 --> 0:15:45.320 of money at it. But what they did basically what 0:15:45.400 --> 0:15:49.280 any um, um you know, depocketed company was going to do, 0:15:49.360 --> 0:15:51.880 which is you fight kind of this this two pronged 0:15:52.680 --> 0:15:56.520 war one with with your lawyers right where you you 0:15:56.560 --> 0:15:59.920 bring in um, the best lawyers you can get, management 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:03.240 side attorneys who are going to do whatever they can 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:07.200 at the National Labor Relations Board to um slow this 0:16:07.280 --> 0:16:10.600 process down, UH, to throw up hurdles in front of 0:16:10.600 --> 0:16:13.360 the union. And that's that's what what Amazon did. They 0:16:13.720 --> 0:16:17.920 hired Morgan Lewis. It's you know, the top or one 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.360 of the top management side firms when you're dealing with 0:16:20.400 --> 0:16:23.480 the union. And the guy they had leading their litigation 0:16:23.600 --> 0:16:25.560 is his name is Harry Johnson. He used to be 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:29.360 a Republican member of the National Labor Relations Board, which 0:16:29.440 --> 0:16:32.720 is like our Supreme Court um for for dealing with 0:16:32.800 --> 0:16:35.800 labor issues. So they really, you know, they got lawyers 0:16:35.920 --> 0:16:39.840 from from the top of the game. And UM, you know, 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:43.400 as you're doing that, UM, you know, you also as 0:16:43.400 --> 0:16:45.560 a company, you often want to run this sort of 0:16:45.600 --> 0:16:50.240 ground game inside your workplace where you're trying to so 0:16:50.400 --> 0:16:55.560 doubt about the union um uh, and and and sort 0:16:55.600 --> 0:16:59.240 of do everything you can legal or sometimes not legal, 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:01.960 to encourage a no vote. And so what Amazon did 0:17:02.040 --> 0:17:06.000 is they went out and hired union avoidance consultants who 0:17:06.040 --> 0:17:09.119 came in and and companies have to disclose this stuff 0:17:09.160 --> 0:17:10.760 to the government when they do it, and we know 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:14.200 a little bit about UM, what Amazon went out and did. 0:17:14.680 --> 0:17:16.679 It's gonna be a while before we know more, just 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:20.520 because of the disclosure process. But they hired a whole 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:22.679 bunch of consultants who came in to hold what we 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.520 call captive audience meetings. This is where UM workers are 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:30.600 are corralled into a room and a consultant or management 0:17:30.760 --> 0:17:34.000 or both get up there and give a speech about, 0:17:34.080 --> 0:17:37.400 you know, basically, why the union sucks, why you don't 0:17:37.400 --> 0:17:41.200 want a union. UM. There's certain lines they can't go over. UM. 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:45.200 They can't interrogate you about your your union sympathies. They 0:17:45.240 --> 0:17:48.080 can't threaten your job if you vote for a union, 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.959 But they can get really close to that line, and 0:17:51.000 --> 0:17:54.040 through careful language, they can kind of sow those doubts 0:17:54.600 --> 0:17:57.080 UM while while still kind of staying on the right 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.000 side of the line. And so that's why you bring 0:17:59.040 --> 0:18:02.760 consultants into do that. And so Amazon had these meetings 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:05.679 going on in the Best sumber warehouse every day for 0:18:05.800 --> 0:18:07.480 weeks in the in the run up to the vote. 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.320 I talked to workers who were in there, um, you know, 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:14.200 multiple times. Uh, and it's it's it's a weird experience. 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:15.960 I mean, I've talked to a lot of workers over 0:18:16.000 --> 0:18:18.680 the years who've gone through this, not just at Amazon 0:18:18.760 --> 0:18:21.720 but elsewhere, and it's it's very strange. You know, you 0:18:21.800 --> 0:18:25.199 have this this guy from the outside who comes in 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:28.120 is kind of acting like he's your pal, like he's 0:18:28.160 --> 0:18:31.320 just there to answer questions and kind of clarify the process. 0:18:31.640 --> 0:18:34.440 They always kind of put off the air of being neutral, 0:18:34.600 --> 0:18:37.680 of just wanting to provide you with information, But when 0:18:37.680 --> 0:18:41.000 you look at what they actually say, it's it's always um, 0:18:41.080 --> 0:18:44.880 you know, within with an anti union angle to it. Um. 0:18:44.960 --> 0:18:47.040 And this can be really effective in a lot of ways. 0:18:47.080 --> 0:18:49.840 It's sort of For one, it can help the the 0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.640 the employer know where certain workers stand. Right. So this 0:18:53.680 --> 0:18:56.960 is a was a big facility of nearly six thousand 0:18:56.960 --> 0:19:00.000 workers in the proposed bargaining unit. So if the union 0:19:00.040 --> 0:19:04.120 one that would be nearly six thousand people in that union. UM, 0:19:04.280 --> 0:19:07.080 that is really large. We in the US, we like 0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:11.359 rarely see union elections on that scale anymore, you know, 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:15.600 in part because of UM uh you know, the industrialization 0:19:15.680 --> 0:19:17.840 and and and a lot of bargaining units have just 0:19:17.880 --> 0:19:20.960 gotten smaller. So this was like a really big facility. 0:19:21.040 --> 0:19:24.040 So Amazon was holding tons of these meetings and they'd 0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:25.840 have people off to the side, and you know, I 0:19:25.840 --> 0:19:28.520 talked to workers who didn't know who who these people were. 0:19:28.520 --> 0:19:31.479 Maybe they were managers, they didn't recognize them, Maybe they 0:19:31.520 --> 0:19:33.879 were in from other facilities. And Amazon did bring in 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:36.919 a lot of people from corporate during the campaign to 0:19:36.960 --> 0:19:40.040 be around the warehouse that were managers from other facilities 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:43.680 in UM and it was just kind of a strange environment. UM. 0:19:43.760 --> 0:19:46.680 Sometimes workers would push back. I talked to a few 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.520 who kind of got got sick of of you know, 0:19:50.600 --> 0:19:53.600 what they felt was was ridiculous propaganda, and so they 0:19:53.600 --> 0:19:56.639 would they would uh, you know, push back UM, you know, 0:19:56.800 --> 0:20:00.639 challenge the presenter and and talk about the goods unions, 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:03.840 good unions could do UM. And I talked to one 0:20:03.840 --> 0:20:06.480 guy who who did that, and then he when he 0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:08.240 once he was back out on the floor. He had 0:20:08.320 --> 0:20:11.240 some union avoidance consultant coming over to talk to him, 0:20:11.280 --> 0:20:13.479 and he just said it was weird. Man. He was like, 0:20:13.920 --> 0:20:15.239 he was like, I don't want to talk to you. 0:20:15.840 --> 0:20:18.480 Uh So it creates a very strange environment, but it 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:22.919 can be really effective, especially in a place like Amazon. 0:20:23.040 --> 0:20:26.440 And this is really key to understanding any union campaign 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:30.720 and an Amazon facility is the turnover there, right, sky 0:20:30.800 --> 0:20:33.919 high turnover UM. New York Times had a number that 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:38.640 they say they got internally that was over a yeah, 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:42.280 staff turnover, right, worker turnover, and that's consistent with UM, 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:45.400 with other numbers that have been done by outside analyses 0:20:45.520 --> 0:20:49.000 suggesting over a hundred percent. What that means is um, 0:20:49.040 --> 0:20:51.479 over the course of a year, the number of workers 0:20:51.480 --> 0:20:54.000 who quit or get fired is greater than the average 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:56.920 number of positions in that facility. Right. It doesn't mean 0:20:56.920 --> 0:21:00.320 that literally every worker leaves, but it means that they 0:21:00.320 --> 0:21:03.320 that if they have five thousand positions in there, then 0:21:04.280 --> 0:21:06.639 more than five thousand or more people passed through that 0:21:06.680 --> 0:21:09.520 warehouse in a year. That is a very high turnover 0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:14.400 rate for the industry. And you know one reason, Frankly, 0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:18.000 I think it's part of of Amazon's early d n 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:21.320 A was that, like, we didn't want this attachment to workers, 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:24.800 like these places they run on algorithm, right, so the 0:21:24.840 --> 0:21:28.399 workers are like our plug and play right um. And 0:21:28.400 --> 0:21:31.800 and Bezos felt like, you know, workers just if they're 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:33.800 just kind of there in a job for years, they 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:36.880 get complacent. So this idea of like burning through workers 0:21:37.040 --> 0:21:39.280 is kind of part of part of like like the 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:43.000 Amazon theory, um. But it also is like a huge 0:21:43.080 --> 0:21:46.720 benefit when you're a company fighting an organizing drive, because 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:50.560 you constantly have people passing through the door, um, and 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:53.679 they don't have time to kind of uh, you know, 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:56.280 develop sympathies with the union, and in this case, a 0:21:56.280 --> 0:21:58.480 lot of them never even heard the union's case. Right. 0:21:59.080 --> 0:22:01.800 You have the the union told me that they were 0:22:01.880 --> 0:22:05.439 under the assumption that they were losing sixty union cards 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:08.199 every week to turn over. And what they mean is 0:22:08.240 --> 0:22:11.560 that sixty workers who signaled they would support the union 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:15.760 election we're going to leave naturally every week, either either 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.520 quitting or getting fired, and so you gotta find new 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.160 new support to replace that. So you're constantly treading water 0:22:22.840 --> 0:22:25.480 as people come in the door, trying to organize them 0:22:25.640 --> 0:22:27.960 and make your case to them. As a union. You know, 0:22:28.000 --> 0:22:31.480 an Amazon of course knows that. And so people during 0:22:31.560 --> 0:22:34.399 this this um you know, mail and election, there were 0:22:34.440 --> 0:22:38.000 there were uh people you know coming in ahead of 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:42.159 the election, UM who never heard from a union organizer, 0:22:42.359 --> 0:22:44.440 and in their first week on the job, they're going 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:48.080 into these anti union meetings basically hearing uh, you know, 0:22:48.119 --> 0:22:50.760 how crumby the union is, and and and what a 0:22:50.800 --> 0:22:53.320 bad idea would be to vote for the union. And 0:22:53.359 --> 0:22:57.440 so Amazon had this large scale sophisted campaign going on, 0:22:57.840 --> 0:23:00.480 in part down on the ground level in the air house, 0:23:00.480 --> 0:23:03.280 with these consultants in their consultants who were coached by 0:23:03.320 --> 0:23:06.560 managers and supervisors on on how to act around the 0:23:06.600 --> 0:23:12.040 workers and how to um you know, essentially uh you know, 0:23:12.560 --> 0:23:15.480 turn out no votes. While at the same time they 0:23:15.480 --> 0:23:18.080 had they had lawyers at the highest level that we're 0:23:18.119 --> 0:23:21.480 trying to um throw up barriers, um, you know, inflate 0:23:21.560 --> 0:23:24.680 the bargaining unit, make the union union, the proposed bargaining 0:23:24.760 --> 0:23:27.280 unit as large as possible so that the union would 0:23:27.359 --> 0:23:30.960 have to be organizing all these all these other workers, UM, 0:23:31.040 --> 0:23:35.800 and just slow things down legally so that um inside 0:23:35.880 --> 0:23:38.239 the warehouse, the company has the time to get their 0:23:38.280 --> 0:23:41.800 anti union campaign up and running. So yeah, this was 0:23:41.880 --> 0:23:47.080 like a pretty uh sophisticated campaign, I think, and probably 0:23:47.080 --> 0:23:49.120 a very expensive one. It's gonna be a little while 0:23:49.200 --> 0:23:52.800 before we know how much Amazon spent on the consultants. Well, 0:23:52.840 --> 0:23:55.520 we'll learn that sometime next year. A lot of people 0:23:55.560 --> 0:23:57.800 I have talked to think, um, you know, it's probably 0:23:57.840 --> 0:24:02.480 almost certainly in the millions. Um, possibly possibly eight figures, 0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:05.000 but we'll never know, you know, what they spent on 0:24:05.000 --> 0:24:07.920 on the lawyers, because that's not subject to disclosure. So 0:24:08.359 --> 0:24:11.160