Speaker 1: Welcome to Is this a great game or what? And
Speaker 1: our special guest this week is my friend Jim Boden,
Speaker 1: former general manager of the Reds and the Nationals, and
Speaker 1: now is a media star. He writes, he does television,
Speaker 1: he does radio, He's everywhere. He works for a million
Speaker 1: different companies. He's got more hits than Ty Cobb during
Speaker 1: the course of a season. Jim, welcome in. This is
Speaker 1: my son, Jeff.
Speaker 2: Jeff, Tim greet me with you. I think I have
Speaker 2: more misses than hits, but thank you for the introduction.
Speaker 2: It's certainly not a star, but you know what, I'll
Speaker 2: take every compliment you want to throw my way.
Speaker 1: So, Jim, we had Steve Phillips on this time last year,
Speaker 1: and we want He did what we want you to do,
Speaker 1: and that's put us in the room of a general
Speaker 1: manager on this the trade deadline day and all the
Speaker 1: days around it. But Steve Phillips, he told us last
Speaker 1: year that you would occasionally call him at like three
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning and wake him up with a trade.
Speaker 3: Even though the trade didn't even involve your team.
Speaker 1: You would say, Steve, I got the perfect trade. Is
Speaker 1: that true? Is he telling the truth? No?
Speaker 2: He's exaggerating like he always does. But yeah, did I
Speaker 2: call him at three in the morning, that is true.
Speaker 2: Did I try to sell him on a player that
Speaker 2: couldn't play? Absolutely I did, so, you know, look, some
Speaker 2: of his stories are true, some of them are certainly exaggerated,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I had a lot of fun. And I
Speaker 2: can't take you in the room with other gms, but
Speaker 2: I certainly can take you back. I was at seventeen
Speaker 2: trade deadlines as a general manager, and I could certainly
Speaker 2: take you into what it was like in my boardroom.
Speaker 4: Well, we definitely want to hear that with today being
Speaker 4: the trade deadline, but it's worth noting too. You're also
Speaker 4: the host of GM Territory, all a part of the
Speaker 4: same family that we are a part of here at
Speaker 4: the Foul Territory Network, and you host the show with
Speaker 4: your son, and here we are. We thought we were
Speaker 4: doing something pretty inventive, but clearly not.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I just followed in your footsteps, right. I
Speaker 2: was so happy when I heard that the two of
Speaker 2: you were doing a show that always stayed in my mind.
Speaker 2: And then my son Trey, you know, got married, had
Speaker 2: a child, had some free time, wanted to dabble in this,
Speaker 2: and I said, well, let's give it a try, let's
Speaker 2: do it. So we're having a lot of fun doing it.
Speaker 2: But certainly you guys were the Trailblazers, and I love
Speaker 2: the father son combination. You know, I'm a big family person,
Speaker 2: as you guys know, so having opportunity to work with
Speaker 2: my son, there's absolutely nothing like it.
Speaker 1: Jim, is this your first grandchild.
Speaker 2: I have two grandsons, yeah, Casey Boden, and they're both
Speaker 2: baseball names, Mickey Boden and Casey Boden. Right now, they're
Speaker 2: the one two hitters. We are expecting a full team
Speaker 2: by the time it's done. Remember I had sons, so
Speaker 2: we are expecting to build an entire lineup. I only
Speaker 2: got a basketball team with five sons. I'm expecting my
Speaker 2: sons to come through with an entire lineup. I think
Speaker 2: we'll be able to do it, and all we'll have
Speaker 2: baseball names of some sort.
Speaker 1: Right Casey and Mickey obviously, that's Casey Stagle and Mickey Mantle.
Speaker 1: Is that true?
Speaker 2: Well, Sean Casey actually, because my son, yes, of course,
Speaker 2: was growing up when I traded for Sean Casey, who
Speaker 2: was certainly a fan favorite of my family, a very
Speaker 2: close to our family. We love, we love Sean, so
Speaker 2: that that was there. And of course Mickey Mantle, no
Speaker 2: doubt about it, a superstar that could do everything. And
Speaker 2: Trey obviously wore Mickey Mantle's number two, so that that's
Speaker 2: where Mickey came from.
Speaker 1: Jim, what is your grandfather name? What do they call
Speaker 1: you or are they too young to call you by
Speaker 1: a grandfather name?
Speaker 2: So far? Well, I was I was g G Daddy
Speaker 2: at one point, but because if he did his arrest,
Speaker 2: I said, we got to change that. So now it's
Speaker 2: more likely ran Poppito, grand Papito.
Speaker 1: I like it.
Speaker 2: That seems to be it right now. I could change,
Speaker 2: though it's subject to change to me. I.
Speaker 1: Jim, take us back to that first year as a
Speaker 1: general manager, your first trade deadline. We all recognize the
Speaker 1: pressure that you have told me before. This is when
Speaker 1: general managers earn all their money. Right now, are we in?
Speaker 1: Are we out? What was that first one like for you?
Speaker 2: Yeah? So my first one. I really don't want to
Speaker 2: bring back that memory, to be honest, Tim, and I'm
Speaker 2: very it's very unfortunate you had to bring that up.
Speaker 2: I mean, this was a situation where he finished in
Speaker 2: fifth place twenty three games out. I traded Tony Perez,
Speaker 2: fired Tony Perez forty four games into the season. The
Speaker 2: entire city wanted me fired. My owners said win or
Speaker 2: you will never GM again in your career. I'd rather
Speaker 2: not talk about that one, but I do like talking
Speaker 2: about the ones in ninety four and even more importantly
Speaker 2: nineteen ninety five. So let's fast forward two years. Okay,
Speaker 2: let's get to my third Winter Meetings, because that was
Speaker 2: my favorite one in my entire career. So I had
Speaker 2: a really good baseball team that had a chance to win.
Speaker 2: I knew it. But I was two starting pitchers away
Speaker 2: from making the playoffs and having a run. And I
Speaker 2: knew that. And so I was working extremely hard on
Speaker 2: a trade to try to get David Cohne from the
Speaker 2: Toronto Blue Jays. And I was working hard. I was
Speaker 2: having conversations with Pat Gillick at the time. In the meantime,
Speaker 2: I was also talking to the Trait Tigers about David Wells.
Speaker 2: I was talking to the White Sox about Jim Abbott.
Speaker 2: And so those are the three names I was trying
Speaker 2: to get to. My owner at the time was Marge shot,
Speaker 2: So I went down and missed a shot, and I
Speaker 2: told her I have three opportunities. Now understand, she'd never
Speaker 2: wanted to spend money on anything, including players, so it
Speaker 2: was always difficult to get her to approve any acquisition
Speaker 2: of any player that made any kind of money. So
Speaker 2: I explained to her at the time, David Cone was
Speaker 2: the most expensive, Jim Abbott was the cheapest of the three,
Speaker 2: David Wells was kind of in the middle. One was
Speaker 2: making five point nine, one was making three point one,
Speaker 2: one was making two and a half million, And so
Speaker 2: I was hoping to sell her on the one in
Speaker 2: the middle, David well. So I said, look, David Cone
Speaker 2: is the best starting pitcher out there. There's no doubt
Speaker 2: about it. He's the guy that I want. Jim Abbott
Speaker 2: only has one arm. I don't think that's going to
Speaker 2: work in the National League because we don't have the
Speaker 2: dhal like the American League has. And David Wells is
Speaker 2: in the middle. So that's the three choices we have.
Speaker 2: And so I was hoping that she was going to
Speaker 2: look and say, well, Jim Abbott really isn't a fit,
Speaker 2: and Cone's too expensive, so get the guy that's two
Speaker 2: million dollars cheaper. And she looked at me and she said,
Speaker 2: go get David Cone. My heart went so fast, my
Speaker 2: hands sweat. I couldn't believe it. I sprinted out of
Speaker 2: her office as fast as I possibly could. By the
Speaker 2: time I got back to the phone and called Pat Gillick,
Speaker 2: his owner Paul Beeston, had already done the deal with
Speaker 2: George Steinbrenner. Cohane was going to the Yankees, so I
Speaker 2: quickly pick up the phone. I called it a Trey Tigers.
Speaker 2: I'm able to work out the deal with David Wells,
Speaker 2: but we can't quite agree. Now. I'm giving him my
Speaker 2: first round pick C. J. Nikowski from the year before.
Speaker 2: That didn't get it done for him. I needed another piece.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: I had to make this deal. So back then there
Speaker 2: was a rule that I could trade a player name
Speaker 2: later that was on my roster, so I agreed to
Speaker 2: add Mark Lewis, a third baseman of the deal as
Speaker 2: a player to be name later. However, because of that trade,
Speaker 2: they later changed the rule and you could no longer
Speaker 2: trade a player off that major league roster. I ended
Speaker 2: up getting David Wells. Well here comes the best part.
Speaker 2: The best part was ten days later I got two
Speaker 2: more starting pitchers. I ended up trading Dion Sanders to
Speaker 2: the San Francisco Giants for Mark Portugal and David Berba.
Speaker 2: So I basically got David Wells, Mark Portugal and David
Speaker 2: Berber within a ten day period. We not only won
Speaker 2: the division, won the Division Series. We swept the Dodgers
Speaker 2: at Dodgers Stadium, and then we went and played the
Speaker 2: Atlanta Braves in the NLCS because of that trade deadline.
Speaker 2: I'll let me take you behind the scenes with the
Speaker 2: trade with the Giants to get Portugal and Burber. I
Speaker 2: did the deal directly with the owner, Peter McGowan, and
Speaker 2: he calls me up at one thirty in the morning.
Speaker 2: My time, ten thirty is time, and he wants Dion
Speaker 2: Sanders in the worst way. And I said, look, I
Speaker 2: can't trade Dion Sanders unless you want to give me
Speaker 2: a gold glove center fielder back, which he had Darren Lewis.
Speaker 2: So he said, okay, I'll give you Darren Lewis. I said, okay, well,
Speaker 2: if you give me Portugal and Burba, two guys that
Speaker 2: can go in my rotation and Darren Lewis, I'll give
Speaker 2: you Dion Sanders, and he said, well, that's just an overpay.
Speaker 2: And you know, how am I going to tell my
Speaker 2: fan base? I gave up three for one, and I said, well,
Speaker 2: we'll go throw more guys in there. What else do
Speaker 2: you want? So you know, he started asking me for
Speaker 2: all these prospects. I said, I can't trade any of those.
Speaker 2: It's hard enough to trade Dion as it is. He's
Speaker 2: a good friend of mine. I mean, I can't the speed,
Speaker 2: and he's got the excitement, the tickets he's gonna sell.
Speaker 2: I can't do that. So I said, but look, go
Speaker 2: get your your media, get your stat guys, to get
Speaker 2: your stats, and let me throw some names at you.
Speaker 2: So I started throwing anyone in my farm system that
Speaker 2: had good statistics that couldn't play. So you can have
Speaker 2: Ricky Pickett, you can have you can have McCarthy. So
Speaker 2: I started throwing all these names of guys that were
Speaker 2: putting up good numbers but couldn't play. They were never
Speaker 2: gonna fit in. Scott's service had a good slider throwing reliever.
Speaker 2: So all of a sudden, I ended up throwing him
Speaker 2: five or six names and we got the deal done.
Speaker 2: So that was one of my favorite trade deadlines.
Speaker 1: You guys, Jim, did you ever deal with another owner?
Speaker 1: Or is Peter McGowan the only owner that ever called
Speaker 1: you and said I'm overseeing the general manag here and
Speaker 1: going straight to you.
Speaker 2: Oh there were more baby, Peter Angelo's small memorials. That's
Speaker 2: how I got Ron Gooseman baby. Oh yeah, and I
Speaker 2: got the deal was nixed by John Allen, and so
Speaker 2: then we had to leak a story to Peter Gammons,
Speaker 2: who was then working at ESPN, to get the word
Speaker 2: out that John Allen had nix my deal for Wan Goozman.
Speaker 2: This was the year before, by the way, in nineteen
Speaker 2: ninety four. I need another starter then too, he knicks
Speaker 2: the deal because of the money. Well, the owner didn't
Speaker 2: know that the president had nixed the deals, so Peter
Speaker 2: Gammons leaked that the deal was nicks. The owner found
Speaker 2: out by watching ESPN called me up and said is
Speaker 2: this true? And I said, I thought you knew it
Speaker 2: got nixt. He said, well, you go ahead and make
Speaker 2: the friggin deal. So I ended up calling it and
Speaker 2: Peter Angelos then wanted another left handed pitcher in there,
Speaker 2: and we threw the lefty in which by the way,
Speaker 2: came back to haunt me. It was a mistake before
Speaker 2: he ended up being a good picture. But I got
Speaker 2: the guy that I needed with Juan Goozman at the time.
Speaker 2: But that doesn't happen if the Orioles owner, Peter Angelo's
Speaker 2: doesn't get involved, and if my owner doesn't get involved
Speaker 2: ahead of my president.
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Speaker 1: Those of ridiculous stories, but every general manager has them.
Speaker 1: And again, Steve Phillips told us last year that he
Speaker 1: made a trade for mel Rojas one year. I can't
Speaker 1: remember all the details, but it was such a dislike
Speaker 1: trade that he got death threats and.
Speaker 3: He needed a police escort because he had acquired mel Rojas.
Speaker 3: How is that possible, jib, don't tell me that you
Speaker 3: ever got a death threat for a trade that you made.
Speaker 1: No.
Speaker 2: I got death threat obviously when the firing of Hall
Speaker 2: of Famer Tony Perez, which wasn't completely all my doing,
Speaker 2: but I'm the GM at the time, so I got
Speaker 2: the hit because my owner was suspended at the time.
Speaker 2: But I got death threats sure. Yeah. Major League Baseball
Speaker 2: got involved. We had police cars sitting outside of my office,
Speaker 2: police in my box during the games, which I didn't
Speaker 2: want police officers at my home. Yeah, death threats for sure. Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's all part of the gig. You want to be
Speaker 2: a public figure, You want to be a GM. As
Speaker 2: soon as you do something unpopular and you make a
Speaker 2: bad trade or you want to fire someone, they like,
Speaker 2: oh boy, no, no no. And they don't just threaten you,
Speaker 2: they threaten your family, which is the worst part. And
Speaker 2: then you know, look, that was in an era where
Speaker 2: the social networking isn't what it is today. The game
Speaker 2: has changed a lot since then. But yeah, they were definitely.
Speaker 2: The example that Steve Phillips was giving you was not
Speaker 2: just a New York thing. It happened in small markets too.
Speaker 4: Now, Jim, did you ever have around the trade deadline?
Speaker 4: I don't want to say, like a superstition or a tradition,
Speaker 4: like you always ate a peanut butter and jelly on
Speaker 4: the trade deadline, or you ate the same dinner because
Speaker 4: you know you're going to be kind of there all
Speaker 4: day the next day. Was there any part of you
Speaker 4: that was superstitious or wanted to repeat or you're always
Speaker 4: taking the calls from your office or from home. Was
Speaker 4: there anything like that for you?
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not going to say there was any superstitious,
Speaker 2: but I mean, you know, I took a pillow and
Speaker 2: to work because you know, I wasn't planning on going home. Look,
Speaker 2: when you get to the trade deadline, it's twenty four
Speaker 2: to seven. So most of the time, instead of being
Speaker 2: in my office, I would spend in the war room
Speaker 2: and we would have all of the magnetic boards or
Speaker 2: the whiteboards that were up there. I always liked being visual.
Speaker 2: So whatever we were targeting, whether it be a starting pitcher, reliever,
Speaker 2: right hand bat, left hand bat, shortstop, whatever it was,
Speaker 2: you know, we would have on the board our targets
Speaker 2: of who we want to trade for, prioritized in the ranking.
Speaker 2: In order. We'd also have all of the other twenty
Speaker 2: nine teams listed with what they've offered, what we want
Speaker 2: from them, how a deal would work. You keep going
Speaker 2: down the rankings, and let's just say I needed a shortstop,
Speaker 2: and let's just say there were seven short stops we
Speaker 2: were targeting. We would rank them one to seven, and
Speaker 2: I would have discussions with all seven teams and see
Speaker 2: who they liked in our organization and then try to
Speaker 2: filter through of the seven teams, could there be a fit.
Speaker 2: Maybe two of the seven could be a fit. So
Speaker 2: those would be the two teams that we would work
Speaker 2: the trades on the hardest for that, and then we'd
Speaker 2: go to the outfield ranking same thing, starters, the same thing,
Speaker 2: and then would grind and then then there would be
Speaker 2: the obsession of you know, a particular player, that I
Speaker 2: really want this guy, and then there would just be
Speaker 2: a lot of conversations, exchanging names and Yeah, I would
Speaker 2: never give up. I would never quit. When someone told
Speaker 2: me can't, I thought that meant Ken. When someone said no,
Speaker 2: I thought that meant yes. And I would annoy people.
Speaker 2: I would annoy Gee. I was annoying. I remember what
Speaker 2: he wouldward saying, Jim, stop calling on Ken Griffy Jr.
Speaker 2: You will never get Ken Griffy Junior. They will have
Speaker 2: to fire me before you get Ken Griffy Junior. Stop calling.
Speaker 2: I'd call every single week. Why he's still calling? Well,
Speaker 2: he was right. He had to get fired before I
Speaker 2: traded for Ken Griffy Junior. Pat Gillick ended up being
Speaker 2: the guy trading me Ken Griffy Junior.
Speaker 1: And Jim I think you were saying at the time
Speaker 1: it was like acquiring Michael Jordan. Tell us what it
Speaker 1: was like to get Ken Griffy Junior and bring him
Speaker 1: to Cincinnati.
Speaker 2: Nothing like it in my life, Tim I mean early
Speaker 2: I highlighted my career was that particular trade. It was
Speaker 2: just a game changer because of the lives that affected
Speaker 2: in Cincinnati. I mean that to see what that trade
Speaker 2: did to the fans, to the children, to the kids
Speaker 2: at Children's Hospital that were in pain. When you bring
Speaker 2: Ken Griffy Junior into Cincinnati, you know, he was the
Speaker 2: Lebron James and the Michael Jordan at baseball at the
Speaker 2: time we made the trade. I mean, he had just finished,
Speaker 2: you know, really successful years with Seattle. He was in
Speaker 2: the prime of his career when we acquired him, and
Speaker 2: so be able to get him and bring him in
Speaker 2: on a team. Remember that the team that when I
Speaker 2: traded for him had just won ninety six games. We
Speaker 2: ended up losing Game one sixty three that year. That
Speaker 2: was the year I was named Executive of the Year
Speaker 2: by Baseball America and I traded for Griffy, and you know,
Speaker 2: I was like, I didn't have to pay for a
Speaker 2: dinner in the city of Cincinnati. In fact, Jeff Ruby's
Speaker 2: restaurants had the boat in Nick's Grill on the menu.
Speaker 2: That's how great things were that particular when I traded
Speaker 2: for Griffy. I mean, I want you to picture this.
Speaker 2: You know we had it, We thought we had a
Speaker 2: deal done. We're landing at the Winter Meetings, which that
Speaker 2: year was in Anaheim, California, right right right near Disneyland,
Speaker 2: matter of fact, So we land and I knew what
Speaker 2: it would take to acquire Griffy. When I flew to Anaheim,
Speaker 2: it was to close the deal that I already knew
Speaker 2: I could make. When I landed at the airport at Lax,
Speaker 2: I had a stretched limo picked me up. Back then,
Speaker 2: they had these things called newspapers. In the back of
Speaker 2: the limo was the La Times, okay. And when you
Speaker 2: looked at the headlines of the La Times, and I'm
Speaker 2: not talking about the sports section, the headlines had a
Speaker 2: quote from me saying, I didn't come to Anaheim to
Speaker 2: see Goofy. I came to trade for Griffy. And I'm
Speaker 2: sitting there drinking my orange juice in the back of
Speaker 2: the limo. You want to talk about an arrogant, cocky,
Speaker 2: young general manager that had no humbleness to him, that
Speaker 2: was me. And then the phone rings, literally as I'm
Speaker 2: getting ready to get out of the limo and it's
Speaker 2: John Allen, and he says the owner tells has told
Speaker 2: me to tell you to get out of the trade.
Speaker 2: Do not make it, and whatever you do, do not
Speaker 2: blame me or do not blame him. You take the
Speaker 2: hit and you say it's a baseball decision. So I
Speaker 2: had to sit there and tell people I wouldn't put
Speaker 2: Pokey Reese in the trade, so we can't make the trade.
Speaker 2: And I knew I couldn't tell all of my assistants
Speaker 2: like Jeane Bennett and Tony Rabella and Larry Barton Junior,
Speaker 2: because they wouldn't believe me because they knew I wanted
Speaker 2: to make this trade. But I had to sit there
Speaker 2: and lie through my teeth, going, well, we just can't
Speaker 2: do it, guys, I can't give him up. And the
Speaker 2: hate that I was getting from all my guys inside
Speaker 2: was like, how can you do this? Well, you know, look,
Speaker 2: the public backlash was huge. Griffy really wanted to come
Speaker 2: to Cincinnati. His agent, Brian Goldberg, was working behind the scenes.
Speaker 2: And finally I'm in spring training in Sarasota, Florida, and
Speaker 2: they finally call me and they say you can make
Speaker 2: the deal now. So I called pac Illick long story short,
Speaker 2: we consummate the deal. Carl Lindner, the owner, sends his
Speaker 2: private jet to the Sarasota Airport to pick me, Griffy
Speaker 2: and his family up to fly us to Cincinnati for
Speaker 2: the press conference. We land at Lunkin Airport, which is
Speaker 2: fifteen minutes from the stadium, a private airport. The owner
Speaker 2: Carl Linder's Rolls Royce and two limos are behind him.
Speaker 2: Ken Griffey Junior gets in the Rolls Royce with Lindner.
Speaker 2: I'm in the limbo behind it with my family as
Speaker 2: we head to the Crosley Field and there are three
Speaker 2: helicopters following us from the few local news stations from
Speaker 2: Lunkin Airport to the stadium. And I'll never forget walking
Speaker 2: up to the podium in what was the most packed
Speaker 2: Crosley room has ever been and I went to the
Speaker 2: microphone and I said baseball is back in Cincinnati. And
Speaker 2: I just stepped back and watched the reaction.
Speaker 1: Jim, that is I must have forgotten how long you
Speaker 1: had to wait in between deal being set and then
Speaker 1: the deal actually being made. What was that? That was
Speaker 1: a couple of months? What was that like?
Speaker 2: It was a couple of years. It wasn't a couple
Speaker 2: of months. I mean I have been trying to get this.
Speaker 2: I've been trying to get him for years. But the
Speaker 2: frustrating part was between the Winter meetings and March because
Speaker 2: it made no sense because the agent, Brian Goldberg, was
Speaker 2: willing to defer money. The net present value of the
Speaker 2: deal was so far below market value it wasn't even funny.
Speaker 2: I mean, Griffy and his agent, they did everything to
Speaker 2: help me get him, and Pat Gillick, the Hall of Famer,
Speaker 2: wanted to do right by Griffy by taking less to
Speaker 2: move the player, to accommodate the superstar player, like everything
Speaker 2: was being handed to us. This wasn't me being a
Speaker 2: great GM pulling off this great trade. This was me
Speaker 2: just facilitating a given that was handed to us on
Speaker 2: a platter, and it gets nicked from above, and to
Speaker 2: this day I'll never comprehend how. But fortunately the end
Speaker 2: result was the same. So who cares. It was done
Speaker 2: in December or it was done when we got the
Speaker 2: spring training. The only thing we do know is the
Speaker 2: shirt I was wearing when I was told the news
Speaker 2: was the ugliest shirt I've ever seen.
Speaker 1: Jim Pat Gillick. I know Pat very well. I've dealt
Speaker 1: with him a million times. He's one of the greatest
Speaker 1: gms ever, if not the greatest. When you were really
Speaker 1: young as a general manager and you're working a deal
Speaker 1: with Pat Gillick, what was that like working with someone
Speaker 1: as revered as him.
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, in my era, there were two
Speaker 2: gms that I respected, and that was Pack Gillick and
Speaker 2: John Schultz, and they were the highest standard. They were
Speaker 2: the highest standard in terms of doing the job, professionalism,
Speaker 2: the way they handled people, their honesty, their integrity, and
Speaker 2: the way they negotiated. They were both straight shooters and
Speaker 2: to the point, and great human beings that were extremely
Speaker 2: smart and when they spoke, everybody listened. When I was
Speaker 2: around those two guys, I traded my mouth in for
Speaker 2: an ear and I walked in with three years. And
Speaker 2: that's how I dealt with those guys. Honor and a
Speaker 2: privilege to be able to talk, trade and do deals
Speaker 2: with Pac Gillick and John Chrolls. I remember the Brett
Speaker 2: Boone Denny Nagel trade with John Cholz or the Roberto
Speaker 2: Kelly for Dion Sanders trade with John Scholtz. Both were
Speaker 2: quick short, to the point and a great process. But
Speaker 2: both of those guys are elite at what they did.
Speaker 2: They were superstars and Hall of Famers.
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Speaker 1: Explain the difference of what the war room at the
Speaker 1: you know, at the trade deadline look like when you
Speaker 1: first started, and what a war room looks like today
Speaker 1: at the trade deadline. As far as volume of people,
Speaker 1: it has changed dramatically. Agreed.
Speaker 2: I'm not going to say that in terms of volume
Speaker 2: of people because you know, you know, when I first started,
Speaker 2: I only had two or three people around me. And
Speaker 2: in fact, when I first started, I was GM Farm
Speaker 2: Director president. I ran the accounting in the pr I mean,
Speaker 2: I did everything. So obviously I was an organization that
Speaker 2: was a small market, so we did everything. But you know,
Speaker 2: by later days in Cincinnati, I had a huge staff
Speaker 2: of really good baseball people. And then when I went
Speaker 2: to Washington. You know, when I first went there, you know,
Speaker 2: we had a small staff, but we built that up
Speaker 2: to be a large staff as we well. I think
Speaker 2: the way the game has changed in the war room
Speaker 2: is just that now you have a lot more technology,
Speaker 2: you have a lot more analytics, we have artificial intelligence,
Speaker 2: you have bigger monitors, you have much quicker information video
Speaker 2: that's available to you. The science and the engineering aspects
Speaker 2: are there. You know, when I was in the game
Speaker 2: as a GM, you know, I needed to lean on
Speaker 2: scouts and evaluators to tell me how much range a
Speaker 2: centerfielder had, what his first step quickness was, Like, how
Speaker 2: much range does he have? Does he go better to
Speaker 2: his right to his left? How does he do with
Speaker 2: the ball coming in the ball coming back? I would
Speaker 2: need scouts that watch that with their naked eye to
Speaker 2: give me the answer. Well, nowadays you don't need that,
Speaker 2: right we just go to the computer and the computer
Speaker 2: tells you exactly how fast they are, what their angles are,
Speaker 2: what the first step quickness is, what the routes are like.
Speaker 2: So you need less of that, and you need more
Speaker 2: technology and more analytics. But the game obviously has expanded.
Speaker 2: It's in a much better place. It's much easier to
Speaker 2: make better decisions. But as you can see, even during
Speaker 2: the draft, you could see how big, you know, these
Speaker 2: draft rooms are and the war rooms. You know, depending
Speaker 2: upon the style of the general manager, the war rooms
Speaker 2: for the trade deadline, for the last three or four
Speaker 2: days of the trade deadline for a lot of clubs
Speaker 2: is very similar to what they have in their room
Speaker 2: for Draft Day.
Speaker 4: Well, speaking of draft day, and I know we're obviously
Speaker 4: talking trade deadline here, but I've always been curious. Now,
Speaker 4: if I'm not mistaken, you drafted Aaron Boone, Adam Dunn,
Speaker 4: among many other like big, big baseball names, And is
Speaker 4: there any part of you that when you won draft
Speaker 4: a player, develop a player, you kind of have that
Speaker 4: moment if you're forced to trade him or they're going away,
Speaker 4: that you're.
Speaker 2: Like, well, that's kind of like my baby, right.
Speaker 4: I took him out of nowhere and we've been nursing
Speaker 4: him to get him to the point that they are today.
Speaker 4: Is there a part of you that remembers those guys
Speaker 4: because there's so much promise, But unlike so many other sports,
Speaker 4: draft day doesn't mean major league baseball for first round
Speaker 4: or second round or third we may never see them
Speaker 4: take a major league at bat.
Speaker 1: In fact, we most likely won't.
Speaker 4: But for the guys that you drafted, especially the ones
Speaker 4: that had successful careers, is that special to you.
Speaker 2: Don't fall in love with your players, don't get emotional,
Speaker 2: John Schultz told me that. That's why John Schultz never
Speaker 2: went down to clubhouses because he didn't want to get
Speaker 2: emotional in making decisions. Brian Sabian wanted his assistant GM
Speaker 2: to call other gms a lot of the times because
Speaker 2: he didn't want to get emotional or be influenced by
Speaker 2: anything except for the evaluation of players. You know, you're
Speaker 2: paid to win. You're not paid to have friendships, and
Speaker 2: you're not paid to fall in love with it. Is
Speaker 2: it fun to trade for a player? Is it fun
Speaker 2: to draft a player and that player succeeds. Sure you
Speaker 2: root for them, but your job is to win that
Speaker 2: first and foremost. I'm going to use Deon Sanders as
Speaker 2: an example for a minute. He was one of my
Speaker 2: favorite people I ever had to be honest because he
Speaker 2: was such a great teammate. He wanted everyone around him
Speaker 2: to be better. He had great work ethic. He wanted
Speaker 2: to win more than anybody, but he wanted to help
Speaker 2: everybody around him be better people, not just better players. Right.
Speaker 2: I love Dion, but the minute I had a chance
Speaker 2: to get two starting pitchers in a gold glove center
Speaker 2: field or I traded him, and I'll never forget going
Speaker 2: down to tell him I was trading him. He started
Speaker 2: to cry and he said, I'm gonna quit. I'll just
Speaker 2: go play football. How can you do this to me?
Speaker 2: How can you trade me? And I said, I traded
Speaker 2: the player, Dianna, didn't trade you. I ended up signing
Speaker 2: him two more times because I wanted Dion back. But
Speaker 2: you know, besides Barry Larkin, he's the only other player
Speaker 2: in all my years of being a GM of the
Speaker 2: Reds that I gave him a notree clause. And I
Speaker 2: didn't give it to him. I gave it to me
Speaker 2: because I knew I would trade him again because I
Speaker 2: want to win.
Speaker 1: Wow, Jim, that is so great. Jim. Give us a
Speaker 1: story about a guy that you the trade was done,
Speaker 1: other than Griffy. The trade was done, you were certain,
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden it fell apart in
Speaker 1: with fifteen minutes to go before the end of the
Speaker 1: trade deadline.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you the trade. I'll never forget it. Two
Speaker 2: thousand and two. I believe I have to look it up.
Speaker 2: I'm talking in nineteen ninety two. Maybe you have to
Speaker 2: look it up, but here it is. It's on the internet,
Speaker 2: so just google it. I had a deal made. I
Speaker 2: was jam of the Reds. I was making a deal
Speaker 2: with Ed Wade at the trade deadline, and he and
Speaker 2: I had agreed to a deal that would send Brandon
Speaker 2: Larsen to Philadelphia for Scott Rowland straight up and John Allen,
Speaker 2: John Allen, the chief executive officer, nixed the trade because
Speaker 2: of money. I asked him how much money did I
Speaker 2: have to come up with to make you approve the deal?
Speaker 2: And he gave me a figure. I went back on
Speaker 2: my phone and I called theo Epstein and I offered
Speaker 2: him prospects for cash. Did that to two other gms?
Speaker 2: I actually and it was pending ownership approval. I actually
Speaker 2: raised the money to make the Larson for Roland deal.
Speaker 2: And the deal with theo Epstein was kind of hurtful
Speaker 2: because I had a young, nineteen year old picture that
Speaker 2: through ninety nine, which back then was a big deal.
Speaker 2: It's not the way, but back then it was a
Speaker 2: big deal. And I brought it to John Allen and
Speaker 2: he nixed it as well, and the deal fell through.
Speaker 2: He can look that up on the internet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but that was to me for you July two
Speaker 4: thousand and two. Yeah, Brandon Larson or for Scott Williamson
Speaker 4: from the Reds to the Phillies for Scott Roland and
Speaker 4: but vetoed by John Allen due to financial concerns.
Speaker 2: Not on and there were and then look, there were
Speaker 2: other deals like that. I remember the other one was
Speaker 2: Chuck Finley. I had a deal for Chuck Finley, again
Speaker 2: mixed by ownership. So look, that became a way of
Speaker 2: life for me. Unfortunately, once once mart Shot was no
Speaker 2: longer under control with the Reds, it became very different
Speaker 2: to get deals approved, even though they were deals that
Speaker 2: we're going to put the Reds in a position to win.
Speaker 2: And look, at the end of the day, you know,
Speaker 2: we all have to live with chain of command and
Speaker 2: follow through it. And that's what we did. And look,
Speaker 2: I tried to keep all of those deals out of
Speaker 2: the public eye at the time because it doesn't do
Speaker 2: any good. You know, when you work for an organization,
Speaker 2: you got to be loyal to that organization. But frustrating,
Speaker 2: Tim Jeff absolutely.
Speaker 1: Oh, Jim, Jim, how your first year as not a
Speaker 1: general manager after sixteen straight years, how much did you
Speaker 1: miss the drama and the pressure of the trade deadline
Speaker 1: that you're no longer there to make a deal.
Speaker 2: Zero zero. Do you know what it's like? Do you
Speaker 2: know what it's like I want to be able to
Speaker 2: hang out with tell us? Can I tell you what
Speaker 2: it's like to be able to take your family or
Speaker 2: your wife out to dinner. Do you know what it's
Speaker 2: like to say, I'm going to the movies tomorrow night
Speaker 2: at seen the seven o'clock show and eat popcorn with
Speaker 2: assault on it. Do you know what that's like to
Speaker 2: be able to watch my Lakers play at the area.
Speaker 2: Do you know what it's like to watch the Cowboys
Speaker 2: on Sunday? Do you know what that's like for Do
Speaker 2: you realize I have an actual life? Do you know
Speaker 2: I have a family and I actually have a life
Speaker 2: outside of baseball, Tim and Jeff, I never had that
Speaker 2: my entire life. My entire life, I was in baseball.
Speaker 2: I went from college to the big leagues right out
Speaker 2: of I graduated in eighty three. I started working for
Speaker 2: the Pirates in eighty four and that's where I was
Speaker 2: for decades, working twenty four to seven. Did I miss it? No?
Speaker 2: And by the way, I still go to the games.
Speaker 2: I still talk I talked to the GMS more in
Speaker 2: this role than I did when I was a GM,
Speaker 2: and they liked me more now than they did that
Speaker 2: It's actually better for me in almost every area. And
Speaker 2: by the way, I can't make a bad trade, and
Speaker 2: by the way, I come up with a bad trade,
Speaker 2: everybody forgets about it next week. It's can't be any better.
Speaker 1: So, Jim, have you ever met anyone who loves the
Speaker 1: trade deadline like right now in this role more than you?
Speaker 1: Because I have never seen anybody love it like you do.
Speaker 1: And I have never seen anybody sell a trade roomer
Speaker 1: better than you. There are times I listen to you
Speaker 1: and I say, there's no way this is going to happen.
Speaker 1: I don't believe in this. And by the time you're done,
Speaker 1: I'm thinking, this is a great trade. This has to happen.
Speaker 1: Where did you get that ability from to make sure
Speaker 1: you could sell the trade that you're talking about.
Speaker 2: I was three years old and I'm sitting on my
Speaker 2: dad's lap and he's talking. He was a big Boston
Speaker 2: Red Sox fan, and Dick O'Connell was the general manager,
Speaker 2: Tom Yacki was the owner, and my dad every single
Speaker 2: night would say, now would you trade this guy for
Speaker 2: that guy? And what about this trade? And what if
Speaker 2: we would do this trade and that was my relationship
Speaker 2: with my dad. Of all the things we had in common,
Speaker 2: that was it. It was baseball and his favorite part
Speaker 2: was the trade. So when I'm a young child, that
Speaker 2: was my passion and so that has always stayed there.
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I love it. I love the ability
Speaker 2: to make teams better. I love I love the drama
Speaker 2: that comes with it. I love the excitement of sports
Speaker 2: about winning and making teams better. I mean, when you
Speaker 2: sit there at the trade deadline and you can make
Speaker 2: a trade and give your team a chance to win,
Speaker 2: there's not a feeling like that because everyone in that
Speaker 2: clubhouse knows that you just contributed like the star player.
Speaker 2: And if you're a rebuilding team, you know what it
Speaker 2: feels like when you can trade Jeff Shaw for Paul
Speaker 2: Karnerko and then trade him for Mike Cameron and him
Speaker 2: for Ken Griffey Junior. Do you know what that feels like.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's it's rewarding, it's fun, and you're helping
Speaker 2: an organization, you're helping play, you're helping a fan base,
Speaker 2: you're helping a group of people, and the excitement and
Speaker 2: the fun of trying to make an impact to entertaining
Speaker 2: people and bring a winner and make people feel good.
Speaker 2: There's nothing like it. You know, there's a lot of
Speaker 2: people out there that don't know where their next meal
Speaker 2: is gonna come from. There's a lot of people that
Speaker 2: go to jobs that they don't like, and they live
Speaker 2: through sports and they get excited when their team wins.
Speaker 2: And when you can do something to help their team
Speaker 2: win indirectly, that makes their life better and their bad
Speaker 2: day at work or their divorced or their financial troubles
Speaker 2: go away when you win five to one. And if
Speaker 2: I had a chance to sit in that seat and
Speaker 2: help that team win five to one and have a
Speaker 2: small part of that, yeah, that's rewarding and it feels good.
Speaker 1: J I grew up in.
Speaker 4: The Washington, DC area, and so when the Nationals came
Speaker 4: to town, I was twelve, So I mean talk about
Speaker 4: prime to get a National League team in your area.
Speaker 1: I mean it was just such a special time.
Speaker 4: You took over, correct me if I'm wrong, right before
Speaker 4: they moved, like the off season before they became the
Speaker 4: Nationals officially and came to DC. You also obviously were
Speaker 4: general manager when they moved to Nationals Park.
Speaker 1: That must have been.
Speaker 4: Just on top of being the general manager, dealing with
Speaker 4: the move and then dealing with a new ballpark. That's
Speaker 4: something that was probably a lot on your plate at
Speaker 4: one time.
Speaker 2: Wasn't it. It was a lot of fun, it was exciting.
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you the funny story at how it happened,
Speaker 2: because you know, I was sitting there in Los Angeles
Speaker 2: and I was having a burrito on Melrose Avenue when
Speaker 2: the Commissioner's office called me and they had offered the
Speaker 2: interim GM job to Bob Watson, who turned him down.
Speaker 2: And they called me and said, you know, would you
Speaker 2: like to, you know, come run the Montreal expos as
Speaker 2: they moved to to Washington. And I said, you know what,
Speaker 2: I don't think. So, you know, I've just started this
Speaker 2: media career. You know, I've gotten this job with ESPN.
Speaker 2: I'm working on this show called Cole Pizza, which has
Speaker 2: been really fun, and you know, right now, I think
Speaker 2: I want to see how this kind of plays out.
Speaker 2: And Bob Dupey, who is the right hand MANDA Commissioner
Speaker 2: Bud Selik at the time, said to me, well, we'll
Speaker 2: pay you x and I said, well, what time is
Speaker 2: the flight I'll get on it. Yeah, and so I
Speaker 2: got on the flight. I accepted right away, and then
Speaker 2: they put me together with Tony Tavers, who was the
Speaker 2: president at the time. He didn't have any input in
Speaker 2: hiring me, kind of put us together. Frank Robinson was
Speaker 2: the manager. So the three of us get put together,
Speaker 2: where none of us hired each other. It's just okay,
Speaker 2: you three make this thing work. And by the way,
Speaker 2: you have no money. You can't hire anybody. We're selling
Speaker 2: the team, so it's got to be bear bone. So
Speaker 2: if you want to hire someone, then you have to
Speaker 2: fire someone to replace him, but you you can't add
Speaker 2: a penny. And so yeah, it was a fun challenge.
Speaker 2: But the excitement of bringing back baseball to Washington, d C.
Speaker 2: After all those years since the seventies. To be able
Speaker 2: to have that opportunity and be a part of that,
Speaker 2: that was incredible to be through the ownership process, all
Speaker 2: these different owners coming in and you know, one of
Speaker 2: the prospective owners said, what keeps you up at night?
Speaker 2: Is it? Brian Schneider the catcher, and I looked at
Speaker 2: me and they started laughing. I said, keep me up
Speaker 2: the night, my children. Certainly not a baseball team like
Speaker 2: what are you asking? And soon as they left the room,
Speaker 2: I made sure people knew they're not going to buy
Speaker 2: this team. But that's the kind of question they're going
Speaker 2: to ask me. That was just bizarre. But the right,
Speaker 2: the right ownership group got at the Learner family. That
Speaker 2: was the right ownership who brought a world championship to DC.
Speaker 2: As you know, Jeff, and so the experience was amazing.
Speaker 2: That first game at RFK Stadium, I thought the entire
Speaker 2: stadium was going to collapse. It was shaking. It was
Speaker 2: shaking so too. In the stand. I had my late
Speaker 2: parents there, I had my mentor Sid Thrift was in
Speaker 2: the house at the time. I mean, my kids were
Speaker 2: all there. I mean it was it was amazing to
Speaker 2: be at DC. And now I'll never forget the first
Speaker 2: game at NAT's Park against the Atlanta Braves. Again, I
Speaker 2: had my late mom and dad there, a special moment,
Speaker 2: all my kids were there. It was incredible. And Ryan
Speaker 2: Zimmerman the walk off home run. He was my first
Speaker 2: round pick my first year in Washington, personally made the
Speaker 2: pick and there he was walking it off to centerfield
Speaker 2: against the Braves to open the stadium. That was the
Speaker 2: moment I'll never forget and I feel very blessed that
Speaker 2: I got dad the honor of privilege to be a
Speaker 2: part of the start of the Washington Nationals.
Speaker 1: And Jim Ryan Zimmerman is the greatest National ever. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure there's a way around that. I mean, tell
Speaker 1: us what it was like when you decided this is
Speaker 1: the guy we're going to take. This is when we're
Speaker 1: going to bring him to the big leagues at like
Speaker 1: age twenty.
Speaker 2: It'll put it right in the middle of the order.
Speaker 1: Tell us how that worked.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it was interesting because we had a conflict
Speaker 2: with my top advisors and we probably did take the
Speaker 2: wrong guy at the time, although it worked out so
Speaker 2: it's okay. But I'll tell you the story. So I
Speaker 2: had my Cadillac Escalade at the time, and in the
Speaker 2: in my escalade loaded up as Barry Larkin, Jose Cardinel,
Speaker 2: Bob Boone. So we have we have a bunch of
Speaker 2: executives all in this in this escalade going down to
Speaker 2: Virginia to see Zimmerman play. I remember Barry Larkin being
Speaker 2: in the way back kind of crunch because we didn't
Speaker 2: have enough room in the car. And we all get
Speaker 2: out and we're watching two players. It's Ryan Zimmerman against
Speaker 2: Ryan Braun, who also went that same year. But the
Speaker 2: thing about Ryan Zimmerman that day was that he was
Speaker 2: a gold Glove defender at third Now we later heard
Speaker 2: his back and he ended up moving to first base,
Speaker 2: but when we drafted him, he was gold Glove third base.
Speaker 2: He was Scott Rowland defensively like he was that good.
Speaker 2: The other part of him he could hit big league
Speaker 2: pitching right now, and what I mean by that is
Speaker 2: high velocity, breaking balls, change up. Owned the other way
Speaker 2: had the approach, low risk, bring him to the big leagues.
Speaker 2: You can hit right now. And in fact I drafted
Speaker 2: him in June. He was in the big leagues in September.
Speaker 2: Frank Robinson, my manager, didn't want him. We had Vinny Castillo.
Speaker 2: He didn't want him. He said he won't hit. You
Speaker 2: can't get a guy in the big leaguexact quick. I said,
Speaker 2: yeah you can, and he ended up hitting three hundred
Speaker 2: and was playing plus plus defense. Jay, you can and
Speaker 2: a great kid. But the other thing that Zim brought
Speaker 2: to the table Jeff and Tim was all the intangibles.
Speaker 2: When I drafted Zim, I said, there's your cover of
Speaker 2: your media guide, there's the cover of the yearbook, there's
Speaker 2: the cover of the franchise. It's not just the talent,
Speaker 2: but it's the makeup, the character, the family values, everything
Speaker 2: we want to be with the Nationals. He's the human
Speaker 2: being we want to be now. Barry Larkin and jose
Speaker 2: Carnell they wanted Ryan Braun, and you know what, baseball wise,
Speaker 2: they were right. But Bryan Brun didn't have the intangibles
Speaker 2: a Zim had. So although Zim wasn't the player bron was.
Speaker 2: Zimmerman did hold up that World Series trophy when they
Speaker 2: got off that charter jet back to DC, didn't he?
Speaker 2: He led that parade, didn't he? So he was the
Speaker 2: right pick, just wasn't the best player in that draft.
Speaker 1: Jim, I dealt with Frank Robinson a lot, and I
Speaker 1: love Frank Robinson in front of me. But he was
Speaker 1: a ferocious player and a ferocious band when he needed
Speaker 1: to be. You tangled with him a few times, but
Speaker 1: I assume you loved every second you spent with Frank Robinson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love Frank. He's a softie. His outside's tough.
Speaker 2: His outside will scare the crap out of you, to
Speaker 2: be honest, but the inside is he's a teddy bear,
Speaker 2: that's the truth. And he has a very loyal group
Speaker 2: around him on his coaching staff. I liked all him.
Speaker 2: I always got a big kip when Mike Wallace he
Speaker 2: always would put those yellow m and ms on his
Speaker 2: seat on the airplane. All his coaches ate those peena
Speaker 2: m and ms. Boy, they love those. But you know, my, my,
Speaker 2: you know, he and I had some disagreements, you know,
Speaker 2: a lot baseball wise, that's all part of it. I
Speaker 2: learned a lot from him as well. We had some
Speaker 2: really funny moments and some really bad moments. I remember
Speaker 2: when you know, John Wetland turned on some firecrackers in
Speaker 2: the middle of bullpen almost well actually the bullpen did
Speaker 2: go on fire on the right bullpen, and Frank Robins said,
Speaker 2: you got to fire him this minute. You got to
Speaker 2: get him out this minute. And look, I said, look,
Speaker 2: let me think about it overnight. We'll get to it tomorrow.
Speaker 2: Let me talk to John Wetland. But that was a
Speaker 2: difficult that was a difficult time. We disagreed on some
Speaker 2: players like Zimmerman and Castilla that year, but you know
Speaker 2: it was give and take. You know, he he would
Speaker 2: he would give. He would give and take. I would
Speaker 2: give and take, and we'd work through it. When we
Speaker 2: agree to disagree. We both said, okay, we'll see, we'll
Speaker 2: see who's right, you know, let's wait, see who's right,
Speaker 2: and then the other one would own it if we
Speaker 2: were wrong, like both of us did that. I think, my, my, U.
Speaker 2: It's interesting conversation with him, and I'm just thinking about
Speaker 2: this because of Sunday was the Hall of Fame. The
Speaker 2: greatest defensive center fielder I ever saw in my life
Speaker 2: was Andrew Jones, and it wasn't close. And I wish
Speaker 2: they had metrics back then to measure him, because nobody
Speaker 2: could take a single double or home away better than
Speaker 2: Andrew Jones. His steps, his angles, his first step quickness,
Speaker 2: his reaction time was the best I ever saw. And
Speaker 2: nobody was close. And I've seen a lot of great
Speaker 2: defensive centerfielders in my life. Jim Edmonds was one, Byron
Speaker 2: Buckston's one, and I've seen a lot. But I asked
Speaker 2: Frank who was the best defensive center fielding you ever saw?
Speaker 2: And he looked at me and he said, Andrew Jones
Speaker 2: is one A and Willie Mays is one B. And
Speaker 2: I didn't see Willie Mays in his prime. But I
Speaker 2: know one thing I could trust Frank Robinson in the answer.
Speaker 1: Right, that's I mean, that's a dad.
Speaker 4: When just to say, when we had our little Hall
Speaker 4: of Fame special Dad, you were praising Andrew Jones and
Speaker 4: his defensive prowess. Absolutely, but I just got chills hearing
Speaker 4: that about what Frank said, one A, one B.
Speaker 1: That is really special.
Speaker 2: That's cool. Yeah, yeah, Jim.
Speaker 1: We could go on for hours about this, but we're
Speaker 1: gonna We're gonna have to let you go here. I
Speaker 1: want to thank you again. You put us in the
Speaker 1: room on trade deadline time, you put us in the
Speaker 1: room at the winter meetings, and what a general manager
Speaker 1: goes through? Have you ever been to the movies? Jim?
Speaker 1: He just asked us, Jem, how great is that? I
Speaker 1: thought he was gonna say, I could not exist without
Speaker 1: being the GM. Instead, it was the greatest relief in
Speaker 1: a way ever.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, it was. I had great memories, enjoyed it.
Speaker 2: I would never take it back. I'm glad I sacrificed
Speaker 2: all I sacrifice. And by the way, my biggest concern
Speaker 2: in my whole life was how my kids would react
Speaker 2: because I wasn't able to go to all of their
Speaker 2: games or most of their games, and I always was
Speaker 2: concerned about what it was going to be like when
Speaker 2: they grow up. All of them today said that they
Speaker 2: supported it and that they're glad that they got to
Speaker 2: be the son of a GM to experience all the
Speaker 2: benefits that they got, and they were glad and they're
Speaker 2: okay with sacrificing what they did of not having a
Speaker 2: full time dad for that, And that makes me feel
Speaker 2: really good that today that they were able to view
Speaker 2: it that way, because that's the one thing I was concerned.
Speaker 2: And by the way, before I took the Nationals job,
Speaker 2: I made sure to ask all of them what should
Speaker 2: I do? What do you want me to do? And
Speaker 2: I was not going to take that job, even on
Speaker 2: a number basis, which is all it was. Originally wasn't
Speaker 2: supposed to be five years like it was, but every
Speaker 2: single one of them told me to take it. And
Speaker 2: that's one of the reasons why I did back then,
Speaker 2: because they wanted the opportunity for me not only to
Speaker 2: be there, but so they could go to the ballpark
Speaker 2: every day as well.
Speaker 1: And Jim again last one for me, what's it like?
Speaker 1: Doing a podcast with your son.
Speaker 2: How great is that?
Speaker 1: I know all about it.
Speaker 2: Well I have to do is look at you two
Speaker 2: and understand that as much as you're enjoying it, Tim,
Speaker 2: I'm enjoying it more.
Speaker 1: That's so good.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: The only problem is my dad had the choice of
Speaker 4: only one son to co host with. I could imagine
Speaker 4: having five sons to co host.
Speaker 2: Well, I don't have to worry about that because only
Speaker 2: one of them wants to write. I have one son
Speaker 2: that's the general manager of the USC football team, so
Speaker 2: he's building, you know, he's trying to build a championship
Speaker 2: team there for the USC Trojans. I've got one son
Speaker 2: that's handling finances for people out the world. And I've
Speaker 2: got another son that's a world renowned dancer that is
Speaker 2: now choreographing for some of the best dancers and music
Speaker 2: videos in the world. So I got my sons absolutely everywhere.
Speaker 2: So I'm lucky. I'm lucky at least they had one
Speaker 2: that wanted to do this with me.
Speaker 4: Well, Jim, listen, I didn't tell my dad I wanted
Speaker 4: to do this, but with a baseball mind like yourself,
Speaker 4: and being that we are joined by guests every single
Speaker 4: week for the last three years. It's been the joy
Speaker 4: of our lives to do this show together. Who is
Speaker 4: a guest and no pressure. I mean, we've had a
Speaker 4: lot of guests on the show already, So if you
Speaker 4: name somebody we've already had, we'll have him back.
Speaker 1: But who is a guest you.
Speaker 4: Think would bring us enjoyment, laugh with us, have fun
Speaker 4: with us that you think we should have on Is
Speaker 4: this a great game or what? In all your years
Speaker 4: of baseball knowledge.
Speaker 2: I would say, bring out Johnny Bench.
Speaker 1: Well, we had Johnny Bench on the first year, Jim
Speaker 1: from Cooperstown and Jeff, you got to acknowledge, maybe all
Speaker 1: of our guests, maybe Johnny Bench was the best one.
Speaker 1: He made us laugh, he made us cry, he sang
Speaker 1: for us, and there we are sitting next to the
Speaker 1: greatest catcher of all time and talk about humility and
Speaker 1: everything else and the greatest storyteller in the world. All right, Jeff,
Speaker 1: you know what.
Speaker 2: You get? Yes, I want to get a little more
Speaker 2: up to date, though, I think try to get Marcello
Speaker 2: Hernandez on. That would be my next recommendation. He'd be
Speaker 2: a good one.
Speaker 1: All right, We're on it. We're there, right, we'll figure
Speaker 1: this out.
Speaker 4: Ye, No pressure because I don't book any of the
Speaker 4: guests except for I did get one PGA tour golfer
Speaker 4: Will Zlatorus on the show because I slid.
Speaker 1: Into his DMS.
Speaker 4: That's about all I've contributed love the guest end of things,
Speaker 4: and my dad is such a prepper that he wouldn't
Speaker 4: let me ever surprise him with a guest. I'm sure
Speaker 4: I could find somebody's number and bring somebody in, but
Speaker 4: he's such a prepared guy.
Speaker 1: I feel like he'd lose his mind if he didn't know.
Speaker 2: Who we were on. So look, I got to work
Speaker 2: with your dad at ESPN. You could throw whatever surprise
Speaker 2: at you. As much as he wants to prep, his
Speaker 2: story telling is going to fit whoever the guest is.
Speaker 2: He honestly doesn't need the prep. All he needs is
Speaker 2: his brain and he's got that full time. So go
Speaker 2: ahead and surprise him. I've I watched ESPN surprise him
Speaker 2: for years. Nothing phases him. He's ready to go no
Speaker 2: matter what come on. His life has been right.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Jim for all the great stories that you
Speaker 1: told today. It was absolutely priceless and at a perfect time.
Speaker 1: Trade deadline today thanks Jim, Thanks John, excellent Okay