WEBVTT - The Trade Deadline: According To A GM

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to Is this a great game or what? And

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<v Speaker 1>our special guest this week is my friend Jim Boden,

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<v Speaker 1>former general manager of the Reds and the Nationals, and

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<v Speaker 1>now is a media star. He writes, he does television,

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<v Speaker 1>he does radio, He's everywhere. He works for a million

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<v Speaker 1>different companies. He's got more hits than Ty Cobb during

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<v Speaker 1>the course of a season. Jim, welcome in. This is

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<v Speaker 1>my son, Jeff.

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<v Speaker 2>Jeff, Tim greet me with you. I think I have

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<v Speaker 2>more misses than hits, but thank you for the introduction.

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<v Speaker 2>It's certainly not a star, but you know what, I'll

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<v Speaker 2>take every compliment you want to throw my way.

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<v Speaker 1>So, Jim, we had Steve Phillips on this time last year,

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<v Speaker 1>and we want He did what we want you to do,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's put us in the room of a general

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<v Speaker 1>manager on this the trade deadline day and all the

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<v Speaker 1>days around it. But Steve Phillips, he told us last

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<v Speaker 1>year that you would occasionally call him at like three

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<v Speaker 1>o'clock in the morning and wake him up with a trade.

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<v Speaker 3>Even though the trade didn't even involve your team.

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<v Speaker 1>You would say, Steve, I got the perfect trade. Is

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<v Speaker 1>that true? Is he telling the truth? No?

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<v Speaker 2>He's exaggerating like he always does. But yeah, did I

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<v Speaker 2>call him at three in the morning, that is true.

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<v Speaker 2>Did I try to sell him on a player that

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<v Speaker 2>couldn't play? Absolutely I did, so, you know, look, some

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<v Speaker 2>of his stories are true, some of them are certainly exaggerated,

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<v Speaker 2>but yeah, I had a lot of fun. And I

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<v Speaker 2>can't take you in the room with other gms, but

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<v Speaker 2>I certainly can take you back. I was at seventeen

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<v Speaker 2>trade deadlines as a general manager, and I could certainly

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<v Speaker 2>take you into what it was like in my boardroom.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, we definitely want to hear that with today being

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<v Speaker 4>the trade deadline, but it's worth noting too. You're also

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<v Speaker 4>the host of GM Territory, all a part of the

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<v Speaker 4>same family that we are a part of here at

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<v Speaker 4>the Foul Territory Network, and you host the show with

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<v Speaker 4>your son, and here we are. We thought we were

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<v Speaker 4>doing something pretty inventive, but clearly not.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, look, I just followed in your footsteps, right. I

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<v Speaker 2>was so happy when I heard that the two of

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<v Speaker 2>you were doing a show that always stayed in my mind.

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<v Speaker 2>And then my son Trey, you know, got married, had

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<v Speaker 2>a child, had some free time, wanted to dabble in this,

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<v Speaker 2>and I said, well, let's give it a try, let's

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<v Speaker 2>do it. So we're having a lot of fun doing it.

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<v Speaker 2>But certainly you guys were the Trailblazers, and I love

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<v Speaker 2>the father son combination. You know, I'm a big family person,

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<v Speaker 2>as you guys know, so having opportunity to work with

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<v Speaker 2>my son, there's absolutely nothing like it.

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<v Speaker 1>Jim, is this your first grandchild.

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<v Speaker 2>I have two grandsons, yeah, Casey Boden, and they're both

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<v Speaker 2>baseball names, Mickey Boden and Casey Boden. Right now, they're

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<v Speaker 2>the one two hitters. We are expecting a full team

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<v Speaker 2>by the time it's done. Remember I had sons, so

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<v Speaker 2>we are expecting to build an entire lineup. I only

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<v Speaker 2>got a basketball team with five sons. I'm expecting my

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<v Speaker 2>sons to come through with an entire lineup. I think

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<v Speaker 2>we'll be able to do it, and all we'll have

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<v Speaker 2>baseball names of some sort.

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<v Speaker 1>Right Casey and Mickey obviously, that's Casey Stagle and Mickey Mantle.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that true?

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<v Speaker 2>Well, Sean Casey actually, because my son, yes, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>was growing up when I traded for Sean Casey, who

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<v Speaker 2>was certainly a fan favorite of my family, a very

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<v Speaker 2>close to our family. We love, we love Sean, so

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<v Speaker 2>that that was there. And of course Mickey Mantle, no

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<v Speaker 2>doubt about it, a superstar that could do everything. And

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<v Speaker 2>Trey obviously wore Mickey Mantle's number two, so that that's

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<v Speaker 2>where Mickey came from.

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<v Speaker 1>Jim, what is your grandfather name? What do they call

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<v Speaker 1>you or are they too young to call you by

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<v Speaker 1>a grandfather name?

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<v Speaker 2>So far? Well, I was I was g G Daddy

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<v Speaker 2>at one point, but because if he did his arrest,

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<v Speaker 2>I said, we got to change that. So now it's

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<v Speaker 2>more likely ran Poppito, grand Papito.

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<v Speaker 1>I like it.

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<v Speaker 2>That seems to be it right now. I could change,

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<v Speaker 2>though it's subject to change to me. I.

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<v Speaker 1>Jim, take us back to that first year as a

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<v Speaker 1>general manager, your first trade deadline. We all recognize the

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<v Speaker 1>pressure that you have told me before. This is when

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<v Speaker 1>general managers earn all their money. Right now, are we in?

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<v Speaker 1>Are we out? What was that first one like for you?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah? So my first one. I really don't want to

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<v Speaker 2>bring back that memory, to be honest, Tim, and I'm

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<v Speaker 2>very it's very unfortunate you had to bring that up.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, this was a situation where he finished in

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<v Speaker 2>fifth place twenty three games out. I traded Tony Perez,

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<v Speaker 2>fired Tony Perez forty four games into the season. The

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<v Speaker 2>entire city wanted me fired. My owners said win or

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<v Speaker 2>you will never GM again in your career. I'd rather

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<v Speaker 2>not talk about that one, but I do like talking

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<v Speaker 2>about the ones in ninety four and even more importantly

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen ninety five. So let's fast forward two years. Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>let's get to my third Winter Meetings, because that was

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<v Speaker 2>my favorite one in my entire career. So I had

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<v Speaker 2>a really good baseball team that had a chance to win.

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<v Speaker 2>I knew it. But I was two starting pitchers away

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<v Speaker 2>from making the playoffs and having a run. And I

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<v Speaker 2>knew that. And so I was working extremely hard on

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<v Speaker 2>a trade to try to get David Cohne from the

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<v Speaker 2>Toronto Blue Jays. And I was working hard. I was

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<v Speaker 2>having conversations with Pat Gillick at the time. In the meantime,

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<v Speaker 2>I was also talking to the Trait Tigers about David Wells.

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<v Speaker 2>I was talking to the White Sox about Jim Abbott.

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<v Speaker 2>And so those are the three names I was trying

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<v Speaker 2>to get to. My owner at the time was Marge shot,

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<v Speaker 2>So I went down and missed a shot, and I

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<v Speaker 2>told her I have three opportunities. Now understand, she'd never

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<v Speaker 2>wanted to spend money on anything, including players, so it

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<v Speaker 2>was always difficult to get her to approve any acquisition

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<v Speaker 2>of any player that made any kind of money. So

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<v Speaker 2>I explained to her at the time, David Cone was

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<v Speaker 2>the most expensive, Jim Abbott was the cheapest of the three,

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<v Speaker 2>David Wells was kind of in the middle. One was

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<v Speaker 2>making five point nine, one was making three point one,

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<v Speaker 2>one was making two and a half million, And so

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<v Speaker 2>I was hoping to sell her on the one in

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<v Speaker 2>the middle, David well. So I said, look, David Cone

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<v Speaker 2>is the best starting pitcher out there. There's no doubt

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<v Speaker 2>about it. He's the guy that I want. Jim Abbott

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<v Speaker 2>only has one arm. I don't think that's going to

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<v Speaker 2>work in the National League because we don't have the

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<v Speaker 2>dhal like the American League has. And David Wells is

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<v Speaker 2>in the middle. So that's the three choices we have.

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<v Speaker 2>And so I was hoping that she was going to

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<v Speaker 2>look and say, well, Jim Abbott really isn't a fit,

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<v Speaker 2>and Cone's too expensive, so get the guy that's two

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<v Speaker 2>million dollars cheaper. And she looked at me and she said,

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<v Speaker 2>go get David Cone. My heart went so fast, my

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<v Speaker 2>hands sweat. I couldn't believe it. I sprinted out of

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<v Speaker 2>her office as fast as I possibly could. By the

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<v Speaker 2>time I got back to the phone and called Pat Gillick,

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<v Speaker 2>his owner Paul Beeston, had already done the deal with

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<v Speaker 2>George Steinbrenner. Cohane was going to the Yankees, so I

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<v Speaker 2>quickly pick up the phone. I called it a Trey Tigers.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm able to work out the deal with David Wells,

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<v Speaker 2>but we can't quite agree. Now. I'm giving him my

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<v Speaker 2>first round pick C. J. Nikowski from the year before.

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<v Speaker 2>That didn't get it done for him. I needed another piece.

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<v Speaker 3>Well.

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<v Speaker 2>I had to make this deal. So back then there

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<v Speaker 2>was a rule that I could trade a player name

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<v Speaker 2>later that was on my roster, so I agreed to

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<v Speaker 2>add Mark Lewis, a third baseman of the deal as

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<v Speaker 2>a player to be name later. However, because of that trade,

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<v Speaker 2>they later changed the rule and you could no longer

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<v Speaker 2>trade a player off that major league roster. I ended

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<v Speaker 2>up getting David Wells. Well here comes the best part.

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<v Speaker 2>The best part was ten days later I got two

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<v Speaker 2>more starting pitchers. I ended up trading Dion Sanders to

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<v Speaker 2>the San Francisco Giants for Mark Portugal and David Berba.

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<v Speaker 2>So I basically got David Wells, Mark Portugal and David

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<v Speaker 2>Berber within a ten day period. We not only won

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<v Speaker 2>the division, won the Division Series. We swept the Dodgers

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<v Speaker 2>at Dodgers Stadium, and then we went and played the

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<v Speaker 2>Atlanta Braves in the NLCS because of that trade deadline.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll let me take you behind the scenes with the

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<v Speaker 2>trade with the Giants to get Portugal and Burber. I

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<v Speaker 2>did the deal directly with the owner, Peter McGowan, and

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<v Speaker 2>he calls me up at one thirty in the morning.

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<v Speaker 2>My time, ten thirty is time, and he wants Dion

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<v Speaker 2>Sanders in the worst way. And I said, look, I

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<v Speaker 2>can't trade Dion Sanders unless you want to give me

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<v Speaker 2>a gold glove center fielder back, which he had Darren Lewis.

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<v Speaker 2>So he said, okay, I'll give you Darren Lewis. I said, okay, well,

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<v Speaker 2>if you give me Portugal and Burba, two guys that

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<v Speaker 2>can go in my rotation and Darren Lewis, I'll give

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<v Speaker 2>you Dion Sanders, and he said, well, that's just an overpay.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know, how am I going to tell my

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<v Speaker 2>fan base? I gave up three for one, and I said, well,

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<v Speaker 2>we'll go throw more guys in there. What else do

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<v Speaker 2>you want? So you know, he started asking me for

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<v Speaker 2>all these prospects. I said, I can't trade any of those.

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<v Speaker 2>It's hard enough to trade Dion as it is. He's

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<v Speaker 2>a good friend of mine. I mean, I can't the speed,

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<v Speaker 2>and he's got the excitement, the tickets he's gonna sell.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't do that. So I said, but look, go

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<v Speaker 2>get your your media, get your stat guys, to get

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<v Speaker 2>your stats, and let me throw some names at you.

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<v Speaker 2>So I started throwing anyone in my farm system that

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<v Speaker 2>had good statistics that couldn't play. So you can have

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<v Speaker 2>Ricky Pickett, you can have you can have McCarthy. So

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<v Speaker 2>I started throwing all these names of guys that were

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<v Speaker 2>putting up good numbers but couldn't play. They were never

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<v Speaker 2>gonna fit in. Scott's service had a good slider throwing reliever.

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<v Speaker 2>So all of a sudden, I ended up throwing him

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<v Speaker 2>five or six names and we got the deal done.

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<v Speaker 2>So that was one of my favorite trade deadlines.

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<v Speaker 1>You guys, Jim, did you ever deal with another owner?

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<v Speaker 1>Or is Peter McGowan the only owner that ever called

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<v Speaker 1>you and said I'm overseeing the general manag here and

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<v Speaker 1>going straight to you.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh there were more baby, Peter Angelo's small memorials. That's

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<v Speaker 2>how I got Ron Gooseman baby. Oh yeah, and I

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<v Speaker 2>got the deal was nixed by John Allen, and so

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<v Speaker 2>then we had to leak a story to Peter Gammons,

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<v Speaker 2>who was then working at ESPN, to get the word

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<v Speaker 2>out that John Allen had nix my deal for Wan Goozman.

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<v Speaker 2>This was the year before, by the way, in nineteen

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<v Speaker 2>ninety four. I need another starter then too, he knicks

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<v Speaker 2>the deal because of the money. Well, the owner didn't

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<v Speaker 2>know that the president had nixed the deals, so Peter

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<v Speaker 2>Gammons leaked that the deal was nicks. The owner found

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<v Speaker 2>out by watching ESPN called me up and said is

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<v Speaker 2>this true? And I said, I thought you knew it

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<v Speaker 2>got nixt. He said, well, you go ahead and make

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<v Speaker 2>the friggin deal. So I ended up calling it and

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<v Speaker 2>Peter Angelos then wanted another left handed pitcher in there,

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<v Speaker 2>and we threw the lefty in which by the way,

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<v Speaker 2>came back to haunt me. It was a mistake before

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<v Speaker 2>he ended up being a good picture. But I got

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<v Speaker 2>the guy that I needed with Juan Goozman at the time.

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<v Speaker 2>But that doesn't happen if the Orioles owner, Peter Angelo's

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<v Speaker 2>doesn't get involved, and if my owner doesn't get involved

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<v Speaker 2>ahead of my president.

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<v Speaker 5>This is that time of year, aj It is Baseball's

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<v Speaker 5>time to shine, and it is sea Geek's time to

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<v Speaker 5>shine with MLB tickets and finding the best pricing, seating

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<v Speaker 5>and games that are even sold out available on sea geek.

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<v Speaker 6>Absolutely if you want to go to the biggest matchups

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<v Speaker 6>coming up. We have Yankees Cubs coming up. Where's Yankees

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<v Speaker 6>Red Sox? That means stuff Again, there's some big moments

0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.640
<v Speaker 6>that are coming up here in the as the penachases

0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:22.440
<v Speaker 6>really heat up. Go to c can find those green

0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.000
<v Speaker 6>tickets with the best deals and get yourself out to

0:11:25.040 --> 0:11:25.920
<v Speaker 6>an MLB game.

0:11:26.559 --> 0:11:29.360
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, and they're straightforward with you. They will actually put

0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.160
<v Speaker 5>a red dot next to a ticket that they don't

0:11:32.200 --> 0:11:36.120
<v Speaker 5>feel is your best look. Green dot means very good

0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:40.800
<v Speaker 5>code for you. It's territory ten ten percent off your

0:11:40.880 --> 0:11:44.000
<v Speaker 5>next set of MLB tickets at skeek. That's ten percent

0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.280
<v Speaker 5>off MLB tickets when you use the promo code Territory

0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:49.400
<v Speaker 5>one zero. Make sure you click the link in the

0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:51.960
<v Speaker 5>description to download the app and have the code automatically

0:11:51.960 --> 0:11:53.839
<v Speaker 5>added to your account so you can use it later.

0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:04.600
<v Speaker 1>Those of ridiculous stories, but every general manager has them.

0:12:04.720 --> 0:12:08.959
<v Speaker 1>And again, Steve Phillips told us last year that he

0:12:09.000 --> 0:12:12.280
<v Speaker 1>made a trade for mel Rojas one year. I can't

0:12:12.320 --> 0:12:15.880
<v Speaker 1>remember all the details, but it was such a dislike

0:12:16.040 --> 0:12:19.360
<v Speaker 1>trade that he got death threats and.

0:12:19.360 --> 0:12:24.920
<v Speaker 3>He needed a police escort because he had acquired mel Rojas.

0:12:25.520 --> 0:12:28.320
<v Speaker 3>How is that possible, jib, don't tell me that you

0:12:28.440 --> 0:12:30.840
<v Speaker 3>ever got a death threat for a trade that you made.

0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:32.200
<v Speaker 1>No.

0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.400
<v Speaker 2>I got death threat obviously when the firing of Hall

0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:38.839
<v Speaker 2>of Famer Tony Perez, which wasn't completely all my doing,

0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:40.880
<v Speaker 2>but I'm the GM at the time, so I got

0:12:40.920 --> 0:12:43.520
<v Speaker 2>the hit because my owner was suspended at the time.

0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:46.720
<v Speaker 2>But I got death threats sure. Yeah. Major League Baseball

0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:50.680
<v Speaker 2>got involved. We had police cars sitting outside of my office,

0:12:51.480 --> 0:12:54.280
<v Speaker 2>police in my box during the games, which I didn't

0:12:54.280 --> 0:12:58.600
<v Speaker 2>want police officers at my home. Yeah, death threats for sure. Yeah,

0:12:58.640 --> 0:13:00.079
<v Speaker 2>that's all part of the gig. You want to be

0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:02.120
<v Speaker 2>a public figure, You want to be a GM. As

0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:04.720
<v Speaker 2>soon as you do something unpopular and you make a

0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:07.480
<v Speaker 2>bad trade or you want to fire someone, they like,

0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:10.200
<v Speaker 2>oh boy, no, no no. And they don't just threaten you,

0:13:10.200 --> 0:13:13.120
<v Speaker 2>they threaten your family, which is the worst part. And

0:13:13.160 --> 0:13:15.440
<v Speaker 2>then you know, look, that was in an era where

0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:19.440
<v Speaker 2>the social networking isn't what it is today. The game

0:13:19.480 --> 0:13:23.280
<v Speaker 2>has changed a lot since then. But yeah, they were definitely.

0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:26.440
<v Speaker 2>The example that Steve Phillips was giving you was not

0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:28.920
<v Speaker 2>just a New York thing. It happened in small markets too.

0:13:29.640 --> 0:13:33.640
<v Speaker 4>Now, Jim, did you ever have around the trade deadline?

0:13:34.320 --> 0:13:36.960
<v Speaker 4>I don't want to say, like a superstition or a tradition,

0:13:37.240 --> 0:13:39.240
<v Speaker 4>like you always ate a peanut butter and jelly on

0:13:39.280 --> 0:13:42.160
<v Speaker 4>the trade deadline, or you ate the same dinner because

0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.559
<v Speaker 4>you know you're going to be kind of there all

0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:47.400
<v Speaker 4>day the next day. Was there any part of you

0:13:47.480 --> 0:13:50.720
<v Speaker 4>that was superstitious or wanted to repeat or you're always

0:13:50.720 --> 0:13:53.440
<v Speaker 4>taking the calls from your office or from home. Was

0:13:53.440 --> 0:13:54.600
<v Speaker 4>there anything like that for you?

0:13:55.640 --> 0:13:58.040
<v Speaker 2>Well, I'm not going to say there was any superstitious,

0:13:58.080 --> 0:14:00.120
<v Speaker 2>but I mean, you know, I took a pillow and

0:14:00.160 --> 0:14:03.679
<v Speaker 2>to work because you know, I wasn't planning on going home. Look,

0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.679
<v Speaker 2>when you get to the trade deadline, it's twenty four

0:14:06.720 --> 0:14:09.679
<v Speaker 2>to seven. So most of the time, instead of being

0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:13.040
<v Speaker 2>in my office, I would spend in the war room

0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.280
<v Speaker 2>and we would have all of the magnetic boards or

0:14:16.320 --> 0:14:20.440
<v Speaker 2>the whiteboards that were up there. I always liked being visual.

0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:23.920
<v Speaker 2>So whatever we were targeting, whether it be a starting pitcher, reliever,

0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.800
<v Speaker 2>right hand bat, left hand bat, shortstop, whatever it was,

0:14:27.280 --> 0:14:29.520
<v Speaker 2>you know, we would have on the board our targets

0:14:29.520 --> 0:14:32.920
<v Speaker 2>of who we want to trade for, prioritized in the ranking.

0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:37.440
<v Speaker 2>In order. We'd also have all of the other twenty

0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:41.280
<v Speaker 2>nine teams listed with what they've offered, what we want

0:14:41.320 --> 0:14:44.600
<v Speaker 2>from them, how a deal would work. You keep going

0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.680
<v Speaker 2>down the rankings, and let's just say I needed a shortstop,

0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:50.120
<v Speaker 2>and let's just say there were seven short stops we

0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.560
<v Speaker 2>were targeting. We would rank them one to seven, and

0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.120
<v Speaker 2>I would have discussions with all seven teams and see

0:14:55.120 --> 0:14:57.280
<v Speaker 2>who they liked in our organization and then try to

0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:01.000
<v Speaker 2>filter through of the seven teams, could there be a fit.

0:15:01.120 --> 0:15:03.400
<v Speaker 2>Maybe two of the seven could be a fit. So

0:15:03.520 --> 0:15:05.560
<v Speaker 2>those would be the two teams that we would work

0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.320
<v Speaker 2>the trades on the hardest for that, and then we'd

0:15:07.320 --> 0:15:10.800
<v Speaker 2>go to the outfield ranking same thing, starters, the same thing,

0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.760
<v Speaker 2>and then would grind and then then there would be

0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:17.040
<v Speaker 2>the obsession of you know, a particular player, that I

0:15:17.080 --> 0:15:19.000
<v Speaker 2>really want this guy, and then there would just be

0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:22.640
<v Speaker 2>a lot of conversations, exchanging names and Yeah, I would

0:15:22.680 --> 0:15:25.920
<v Speaker 2>never give up. I would never quit. When someone told

0:15:25.960 --> 0:15:29.000
<v Speaker 2>me can't, I thought that meant Ken. When someone said no,

0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.200
<v Speaker 2>I thought that meant yes. And I would annoy people.

0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.800
<v Speaker 2>I would annoy Gee. I was annoying. I remember what

0:15:35.880 --> 0:15:39.600
<v Speaker 2>he wouldward saying, Jim, stop calling on Ken Griffy Jr.

0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:42.160
<v Speaker 2>You will never get Ken Griffy Junior. They will have

0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:45.480
<v Speaker 2>to fire me before you get Ken Griffy Junior. Stop calling.

0:15:45.640 --> 0:15:48.800
<v Speaker 2>I'd call every single week. Why he's still calling? Well,

0:15:48.960 --> 0:15:51.040
<v Speaker 2>he was right. He had to get fired before I

0:15:51.080 --> 0:15:53.520
<v Speaker 2>traded for Ken Griffy Junior. Pat Gillick ended up being

0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.360
<v Speaker 2>the guy trading me Ken Griffy Junior.

0:15:57.320 --> 0:16:00.400
<v Speaker 1>And Jim I think you were saying at the time

0:16:00.600 --> 0:16:03.720
<v Speaker 1>it was like acquiring Michael Jordan. Tell us what it

0:16:03.840 --> 0:16:07.320
<v Speaker 1>was like to get Ken Griffy Junior and bring him

0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:08.360
<v Speaker 1>to Cincinnati.

0:16:09.960 --> 0:16:12.640
<v Speaker 2>Nothing like it in my life, Tim I mean early

0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:16.160
<v Speaker 2>I highlighted my career was that particular trade. It was

0:16:16.200 --> 0:16:19.440
<v Speaker 2>just a game changer because of the lives that affected

0:16:19.440 --> 0:16:23.160
<v Speaker 2>in Cincinnati. I mean that to see what that trade

0:16:23.240 --> 0:16:28.720
<v Speaker 2>did to the fans, to the children, to the kids

0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:31.120
<v Speaker 2>at Children's Hospital that were in pain. When you bring

0:16:31.200 --> 0:16:34.360
<v Speaker 2>Ken Griffy Junior into Cincinnati, you know, he was the

0:16:34.520 --> 0:16:36.920
<v Speaker 2>Lebron James and the Michael Jordan at baseball at the

0:16:36.920 --> 0:16:39.240
<v Speaker 2>time we made the trade. I mean, he had just finished,

0:16:39.560 --> 0:16:42.160
<v Speaker 2>you know, really successful years with Seattle. He was in

0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.280
<v Speaker 2>the prime of his career when we acquired him, and

0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.280
<v Speaker 2>so be able to get him and bring him in

0:16:47.360 --> 0:16:50.160
<v Speaker 2>on a team. Remember that the team that when I

0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:53.320
<v Speaker 2>traded for him had just won ninety six games. We

0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:55.800
<v Speaker 2>ended up losing Game one sixty three that year. That

0:16:55.880 --> 0:16:57.760
<v Speaker 2>was the year I was named Executive of the Year

0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.800
<v Speaker 2>by Baseball America and I traded for Griffy, and you know,

0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:05.040
<v Speaker 2>I was like, I didn't have to pay for a

0:17:05.119 --> 0:17:07.760
<v Speaker 2>dinner in the city of Cincinnati. In fact, Jeff Ruby's

0:17:07.760 --> 0:17:10.840
<v Speaker 2>restaurants had the boat in Nick's Grill on the menu.

0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:13.920
<v Speaker 2>That's how great things were that particular when I traded

0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:15.879
<v Speaker 2>for Griffy. I mean, I want you to picture this.

0:17:16.240 --> 0:17:17.879
<v Speaker 2>You know we had it, We thought we had a

0:17:17.920 --> 0:17:20.960
<v Speaker 2>deal done. We're landing at the Winter Meetings, which that

0:17:21.080 --> 0:17:24.760
<v Speaker 2>year was in Anaheim, California, right right right near Disneyland,

0:17:24.800 --> 0:17:28.199
<v Speaker 2>matter of fact, So we land and I knew what

0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:32.280
<v Speaker 2>it would take to acquire Griffy. When I flew to Anaheim,

0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.560
<v Speaker 2>it was to close the deal that I already knew

0:17:34.600 --> 0:17:38.880
<v Speaker 2>I could make. When I landed at the airport at Lax,

0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.119
<v Speaker 2>I had a stretched limo picked me up. Back then,

0:17:41.160 --> 0:17:43.639
<v Speaker 2>they had these things called newspapers. In the back of

0:17:43.680 --> 0:17:47.080
<v Speaker 2>the limo was the La Times, okay. And when you

0:17:47.080 --> 0:17:49.239
<v Speaker 2>looked at the headlines of the La Times, and I'm

0:17:49.280 --> 0:17:51.639
<v Speaker 2>not talking about the sports section, the headlines had a

0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:56.600
<v Speaker 2>quote from me saying, I didn't come to Anaheim to

0:17:57.240 --> 0:18:00.400
<v Speaker 2>see Goofy. I came to trade for Griffy. And I'm

0:18:00.440 --> 0:18:02.679
<v Speaker 2>sitting there drinking my orange juice in the back of

0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:05.360
<v Speaker 2>the limo. You want to talk about an arrogant, cocky,

0:18:05.960 --> 0:18:08.840
<v Speaker 2>young general manager that had no humbleness to him, that

0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:14.480
<v Speaker 2>was me. And then the phone rings, literally as I'm

0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:16.639
<v Speaker 2>getting ready to get out of the limo and it's

0:18:16.720 --> 0:18:20.040
<v Speaker 2>John Allen, and he says the owner tells has told

0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:21.919
<v Speaker 2>me to tell you to get out of the trade.

0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:24.280
<v Speaker 2>Do not make it, and whatever you do, do not

0:18:24.359 --> 0:18:26.800
<v Speaker 2>blame me or do not blame him. You take the

0:18:26.880 --> 0:18:30.199
<v Speaker 2>hit and you say it's a baseball decision. So I

0:18:30.240 --> 0:18:33.520
<v Speaker 2>had to sit there and tell people I wouldn't put

0:18:33.560 --> 0:18:36.639
<v Speaker 2>Pokey Reese in the trade, so we can't make the trade.

0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.040
<v Speaker 2>And I knew I couldn't tell all of my assistants

0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:42.560
<v Speaker 2>like Jeane Bennett and Tony Rabella and Larry Barton Junior,

0:18:42.560 --> 0:18:44.520
<v Speaker 2>because they wouldn't believe me because they knew I wanted

0:18:44.520 --> 0:18:46.280
<v Speaker 2>to make this trade. But I had to sit there

0:18:46.320 --> 0:18:48.400
<v Speaker 2>and lie through my teeth, going, well, we just can't

0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:50.560
<v Speaker 2>do it, guys, I can't give him up. And the

0:18:50.680 --> 0:18:53.720
<v Speaker 2>hate that I was getting from all my guys inside

0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:57.000
<v Speaker 2>was like, how can you do this? Well, you know, look,

0:18:57.040 --> 0:18:59.800
<v Speaker 2>the public backlash was huge. Griffy really wanted to come

0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:03.600
<v Speaker 2>to Cincinnati. His agent, Brian Goldberg, was working behind the scenes.

0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:07.439
<v Speaker 2>And finally I'm in spring training in Sarasota, Florida, and

0:19:07.480 --> 0:19:09.400
<v Speaker 2>they finally call me and they say you can make

0:19:09.400 --> 0:19:13.480
<v Speaker 2>the deal now. So I called pac Illick long story short,

0:19:13.640 --> 0:19:17.280
<v Speaker 2>we consummate the deal. Carl Lindner, the owner, sends his

0:19:17.440 --> 0:19:21.320
<v Speaker 2>private jet to the Sarasota Airport to pick me, Griffy

0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:24.040
<v Speaker 2>and his family up to fly us to Cincinnati for

0:19:24.080 --> 0:19:27.399
<v Speaker 2>the press conference. We land at Lunkin Airport, which is

0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:32.280
<v Speaker 2>fifteen minutes from the stadium, a private airport. The owner

0:19:32.359 --> 0:19:35.800
<v Speaker 2>Carl Linder's Rolls Royce and two limos are behind him.

0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:39.480
<v Speaker 2>Ken Griffey Junior gets in the Rolls Royce with Lindner.

0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:43.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm in the limbo behind it with my family as

0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:45.800
<v Speaker 2>we head to the Crosley Field and there are three

0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:50.280
<v Speaker 2>helicopters following us from the few local news stations from

0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.280
<v Speaker 2>Lunkin Airport to the stadium. And I'll never forget walking

0:19:54.359 --> 0:19:57.159
<v Speaker 2>up to the podium in what was the most packed

0:19:57.160 --> 0:20:00.040
<v Speaker 2>Crosley room has ever been and I went to the

0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:04.639
<v Speaker 2>microphone and I said baseball is back in Cincinnati. And

0:20:04.680 --> 0:20:06.720
<v Speaker 2>I just stepped back and watched the reaction.

0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:14.600
<v Speaker 1>Jim, that is I must have forgotten how long you

0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.880
<v Speaker 1>had to wait in between deal being set and then

0:20:18.920 --> 0:20:22.040
<v Speaker 1>the deal actually being made. What was that? That was

0:20:22.080 --> 0:20:23.600
<v Speaker 1>a couple of months? What was that like?

0:20:24.720 --> 0:20:26.320
<v Speaker 2>It was a couple of years. It wasn't a couple

0:20:26.320 --> 0:20:28.320
<v Speaker 2>of months. I mean I have been trying to get this.

0:20:28.600 --> 0:20:30.640
<v Speaker 2>I've been trying to get him for years. But the

0:20:30.640 --> 0:20:36.320
<v Speaker 2>frustrating part was between the Winter meetings and March because

0:20:36.359 --> 0:20:40.359
<v Speaker 2>it made no sense because the agent, Brian Goldberg, was

0:20:40.400 --> 0:20:43.800
<v Speaker 2>willing to defer money. The net present value of the

0:20:43.880 --> 0:20:47.320
<v Speaker 2>deal was so far below market value it wasn't even funny.

0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.840
<v Speaker 2>I mean, Griffy and his agent, they did everything to

0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:55.240
<v Speaker 2>help me get him, and Pat Gillick, the Hall of Famer,

0:20:55.840 --> 0:20:59.600
<v Speaker 2>wanted to do right by Griffy by taking less to

0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:03.600
<v Speaker 2>move the player, to accommodate the superstar player, like everything

0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:06.320
<v Speaker 2>was being handed to us. This wasn't me being a

0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:09.480
<v Speaker 2>great GM pulling off this great trade. This was me

0:21:09.720 --> 0:21:13.639
<v Speaker 2>just facilitating a given that was handed to us on

0:21:13.680 --> 0:21:16.720
<v Speaker 2>a platter, and it gets nicked from above, and to

0:21:16.800 --> 0:21:20.560
<v Speaker 2>this day I'll never comprehend how. But fortunately the end

0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:22.600
<v Speaker 2>result was the same. So who cares. It was done

0:21:22.600 --> 0:21:25.439
<v Speaker 2>in December or it was done when we got the

0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:28.080
<v Speaker 2>spring training. The only thing we do know is the

0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:30.359
<v Speaker 2>shirt I was wearing when I was told the news

0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:31.960
<v Speaker 2>was the ugliest shirt I've ever seen.

0:21:36.680 --> 0:21:40.520
<v Speaker 1>Jim Pat Gillick. I know Pat very well. I've dealt

0:21:40.520 --> 0:21:43.000
<v Speaker 1>with him a million times. He's one of the greatest

0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:46.359
<v Speaker 1>gms ever, if not the greatest. When you were really

0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.639
<v Speaker 1>young as a general manager and you're working a deal

0:21:50.000 --> 0:21:53.560
<v Speaker 1>with Pat Gillick, what was that like working with someone

0:21:53.640 --> 0:21:55.640
<v Speaker 1>as revered as him.

0:21:56.040 --> 0:21:58.200
<v Speaker 2>Well, first of all, in my era, there were two

0:21:58.440 --> 0:22:01.320
<v Speaker 2>gms that I respected, and that was Pack Gillick and

0:22:01.400 --> 0:22:05.200
<v Speaker 2>John Schultz, and they were the highest standard. They were

0:22:05.200 --> 0:22:09.240
<v Speaker 2>the highest standard in terms of doing the job, professionalism,

0:22:09.720 --> 0:22:14.119
<v Speaker 2>the way they handled people, their honesty, their integrity, and

0:22:14.160 --> 0:22:16.919
<v Speaker 2>the way they negotiated. They were both straight shooters and

0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:19.840
<v Speaker 2>to the point, and great human beings that were extremely

0:22:19.920 --> 0:22:24.199
<v Speaker 2>smart and when they spoke, everybody listened. When I was

0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:27.639
<v Speaker 2>around those two guys, I traded my mouth in for

0:22:27.680 --> 0:22:29.520
<v Speaker 2>an ear and I walked in with three years. And

0:22:29.520 --> 0:22:32.359
<v Speaker 2>that's how I dealt with those guys. Honor and a

0:22:32.400 --> 0:22:35.040
<v Speaker 2>privilege to be able to talk, trade and do deals

0:22:35.359 --> 0:22:38.480
<v Speaker 2>with Pac Gillick and John Chrolls. I remember the Brett

0:22:38.480 --> 0:22:42.959
<v Speaker 2>Boone Denny Nagel trade with John Cholz or the Roberto

0:22:43.080 --> 0:22:45.880
<v Speaker 2>Kelly for Dion Sanders trade with John Scholtz. Both were

0:22:45.960 --> 0:22:49.520
<v Speaker 2>quick short, to the point and a great process. But

0:22:49.600 --> 0:22:52.520
<v Speaker 2>both of those guys are elite at what they did.

0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:54.400
<v Speaker 2>They were superstars and Hall of Famers.

0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:58.920
<v Speaker 5>By the way, today's episode is sponsored by the ASPCA

0:22:59.040 --> 0:23:00.399
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0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:06.639
<v Speaker 1>Explain the difference of what the war room at the

0:24:07.440 --> 0:24:09.919
<v Speaker 1>you know, at the trade deadline look like when you

0:24:10.040 --> 0:24:13.960
<v Speaker 1>first started, and what a war room looks like today

0:24:14.400 --> 0:24:17.840
<v Speaker 1>at the trade deadline. As far as volume of people,

0:24:17.960 --> 0:24:20.000
<v Speaker 1>it has changed dramatically. Agreed.

0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:24.439
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to say that in terms of volume

0:24:24.480 --> 0:24:30.280
<v Speaker 2>of people because you know, you know, when I first started,

0:24:30.359 --> 0:24:32.720
<v Speaker 2>I only had two or three people around me. And

0:24:32.720 --> 0:24:35.440
<v Speaker 2>in fact, when I first started, I was GM Farm

0:24:35.520 --> 0:24:40.160
<v Speaker 2>Director president. I ran the accounting in the pr I mean,

0:24:40.520 --> 0:24:43.440
<v Speaker 2>I did everything. So obviously I was an organization that

0:24:43.520 --> 0:24:46.280
<v Speaker 2>was a small market, so we did everything. But you know,

0:24:46.359 --> 0:24:49.320
<v Speaker 2>by later days in Cincinnati, I had a huge staff

0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:53.400
<v Speaker 2>of really good baseball people. And then when I went

0:24:53.440 --> 0:24:56.720
<v Speaker 2>to Washington. You know, when I first went there, you know,

0:24:56.720 --> 0:24:58.680
<v Speaker 2>we had a small staff, but we built that up

0:24:58.800 --> 0:25:01.360
<v Speaker 2>to be a large staff as we well. I think

0:25:01.400 --> 0:25:03.360
<v Speaker 2>the way the game has changed in the war room

0:25:03.440 --> 0:25:07.480
<v Speaker 2>is just that now you have a lot more technology,

0:25:07.840 --> 0:25:11.600
<v Speaker 2>you have a lot more analytics, we have artificial intelligence,

0:25:12.080 --> 0:25:18.479
<v Speaker 2>you have bigger monitors, you have much quicker information video

0:25:19.000 --> 0:25:23.760
<v Speaker 2>that's available to you. The science and the engineering aspects

0:25:23.880 --> 0:25:25.840
<v Speaker 2>are there. You know, when I was in the game

0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:28.640
<v Speaker 2>as a GM, you know, I needed to lean on

0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:32.159
<v Speaker 2>scouts and evaluators to tell me how much range a

0:25:32.200 --> 0:25:36.199
<v Speaker 2>centerfielder had, what his first step quickness was, Like, how

0:25:36.280 --> 0:25:37.960
<v Speaker 2>much range does he have? Does he go better to

0:25:38.040 --> 0:25:40.040
<v Speaker 2>his right to his left? How does he do with

0:25:40.080 --> 0:25:42.560
<v Speaker 2>the ball coming in the ball coming back? I would

0:25:42.600 --> 0:25:44.879
<v Speaker 2>need scouts that watch that with their naked eye to

0:25:44.880 --> 0:25:47.000
<v Speaker 2>give me the answer. Well, nowadays you don't need that,

0:25:47.080 --> 0:25:48.879
<v Speaker 2>right we just go to the computer and the computer

0:25:49.240 --> 0:25:51.840
<v Speaker 2>tells you exactly how fast they are, what their angles are,

0:25:51.880 --> 0:25:54.000
<v Speaker 2>what the first step quickness is, what the routes are like.

0:25:54.800 --> 0:25:56.680
<v Speaker 2>So you need less of that, and you need more

0:25:56.720 --> 0:26:00.680
<v Speaker 2>technology and more analytics. But the game obviously has expanded.

0:26:00.720 --> 0:26:02.679
<v Speaker 2>It's in a much better place. It's much easier to

0:26:02.720 --> 0:26:06.680
<v Speaker 2>make better decisions. But as you can see, even during

0:26:06.720 --> 0:26:09.320
<v Speaker 2>the draft, you could see how big, you know, these

0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:12.520
<v Speaker 2>draft rooms are and the war rooms. You know, depending

0:26:12.600 --> 0:26:16.000
<v Speaker 2>upon the style of the general manager, the war rooms

0:26:16.359 --> 0:26:18.919
<v Speaker 2>for the trade deadline, for the last three or four

0:26:19.000 --> 0:26:21.600
<v Speaker 2>days of the trade deadline for a lot of clubs

0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:23.280
<v Speaker 2>is very similar to what they have in their room

0:26:23.320 --> 0:26:23.920
<v Speaker 2>for Draft Day.

0:26:26.040 --> 0:26:28.880
<v Speaker 4>Well, speaking of draft day, and I know we're obviously

0:26:29.000 --> 0:26:32.359
<v Speaker 4>talking trade deadline here, but I've always been curious. Now,

0:26:32.400 --> 0:26:36.320
<v Speaker 4>if I'm not mistaken, you drafted Aaron Boone, Adam Dunn,

0:26:36.680 --> 0:26:41.199
<v Speaker 4>among many other like big, big baseball names, And is

0:26:41.280 --> 0:26:44.040
<v Speaker 4>there any part of you that when you won draft

0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:46.479
<v Speaker 4>a player, develop a player, you kind of have that

0:26:46.520 --> 0:26:50.200
<v Speaker 4>moment if you're forced to trade him or they're going away,

0:26:50.359 --> 0:26:50.920
<v Speaker 4>that you're.

0:26:50.800 --> 0:26:52.560
<v Speaker 2>Like, well, that's kind of like my baby, right.

0:26:52.600 --> 0:26:54.919
<v Speaker 4>I took him out of nowhere and we've been nursing

0:26:55.040 --> 0:26:56.879
<v Speaker 4>him to get him to the point that they are today.

0:26:57.240 --> 0:26:59.760
<v Speaker 4>Is there a part of you that remembers those guys

0:26:59.840 --> 0:27:03.320
<v Speaker 4>because there's so much promise, But unlike so many other sports,

0:27:03.600 --> 0:27:06.440
<v Speaker 4>draft day doesn't mean major league baseball for first round

0:27:06.520 --> 0:27:09.640
<v Speaker 4>or second round or third we may never see them

0:27:09.680 --> 0:27:10.680
<v Speaker 4>take a major league at bat.

0:27:10.720 --> 0:27:12.160
<v Speaker 1>In fact, we most likely won't.

0:27:12.400 --> 0:27:14.680
<v Speaker 4>But for the guys that you drafted, especially the ones

0:27:14.720 --> 0:27:17.240
<v Speaker 4>that had successful careers, is that special to you.

0:27:18.960 --> 0:27:21.320
<v Speaker 2>Don't fall in love with your players, don't get emotional,

0:27:21.520 --> 0:27:23.719
<v Speaker 2>John Schultz told me that. That's why John Schultz never

0:27:23.760 --> 0:27:25.399
<v Speaker 2>went down to clubhouses because he didn't want to get

0:27:25.400 --> 0:27:29.520
<v Speaker 2>emotional in making decisions. Brian Sabian wanted his assistant GM

0:27:29.600 --> 0:27:31.640
<v Speaker 2>to call other gms a lot of the times because

0:27:31.640 --> 0:27:34.760
<v Speaker 2>he didn't want to get emotional or be influenced by

0:27:34.800 --> 0:27:37.320
<v Speaker 2>anything except for the evaluation of players. You know, you're

0:27:37.359 --> 0:27:40.040
<v Speaker 2>paid to win. You're not paid to have friendships, and

0:27:40.080 --> 0:27:41.720
<v Speaker 2>you're not paid to fall in love with it. Is

0:27:41.760 --> 0:27:43.480
<v Speaker 2>it fun to trade for a player? Is it fun

0:27:43.520 --> 0:27:45.960
<v Speaker 2>to draft a player and that player succeeds. Sure you

0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:48.399
<v Speaker 2>root for them, but your job is to win that

0:27:48.760 --> 0:27:51.640
<v Speaker 2>first and foremost. I'm going to use Deon Sanders as

0:27:51.640 --> 0:27:53.480
<v Speaker 2>an example for a minute. He was one of my

0:27:53.680 --> 0:27:56.719
<v Speaker 2>favorite people I ever had to be honest because he

0:27:56.760 --> 0:27:59.080
<v Speaker 2>was such a great teammate. He wanted everyone around him

0:27:59.080 --> 0:28:02.480
<v Speaker 2>to be better. He had great work ethic. He wanted

0:28:02.520 --> 0:28:04.280
<v Speaker 2>to win more than anybody, but he wanted to help

0:28:04.320 --> 0:28:07.600
<v Speaker 2>everybody around him be better people, not just better players. Right.

0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:10.840
<v Speaker 2>I love Dion, but the minute I had a chance

0:28:10.880 --> 0:28:12.880
<v Speaker 2>to get two starting pitchers in a gold glove center

0:28:12.920 --> 0:28:15.680
<v Speaker 2>field or I traded him, and I'll never forget going

0:28:15.720 --> 0:28:17.399
<v Speaker 2>down to tell him I was trading him. He started

0:28:17.400 --> 0:28:20.679
<v Speaker 2>to cry and he said, I'm gonna quit. I'll just

0:28:20.720 --> 0:28:22.480
<v Speaker 2>go play football. How can you do this to me?

0:28:22.520 --> 0:28:25.080
<v Speaker 2>How can you trade me? And I said, I traded

0:28:25.119 --> 0:28:28.399
<v Speaker 2>the player, Dianna, didn't trade you. I ended up signing

0:28:28.440 --> 0:28:31.040
<v Speaker 2>him two more times because I wanted Dion back. But

0:28:31.160 --> 0:28:35.000
<v Speaker 2>you know, besides Barry Larkin, he's the only other player

0:28:35.080 --> 0:28:36.920
<v Speaker 2>in all my years of being a GM of the

0:28:36.960 --> 0:28:40.120
<v Speaker 2>Reds that I gave him a notree clause. And I

0:28:40.160 --> 0:28:42.520
<v Speaker 2>didn't give it to him. I gave it to me

0:28:42.720 --> 0:28:46.520
<v Speaker 2>because I knew I would trade him again because I

0:28:46.560 --> 0:28:47.080
<v Speaker 2>want to win.

0:28:48.960 --> 0:28:54.840
<v Speaker 1>Wow, Jim, that is so great. Jim. Give us a

0:28:54.920 --> 0:28:58.360
<v Speaker 1>story about a guy that you the trade was done,

0:28:58.560 --> 0:29:02.160
<v Speaker 1>other than Griffy. The trade was done, you were certain,

0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:04.840
<v Speaker 1>and then all of a sudden it fell apart in

0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:07.840
<v Speaker 1>with fifteen minutes to go before the end of the

0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:08.680
<v Speaker 1>trade deadline.

0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:11.560
<v Speaker 2>I'll tell you the trade. I'll never forget it. Two

0:29:11.640 --> 0:29:13.880
<v Speaker 2>thousand and two. I believe I have to look it up.

0:29:15.640 --> 0:29:18.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm talking in nineteen ninety two. Maybe you have to

0:29:18.240 --> 0:29:20.200
<v Speaker 2>look it up, but here it is. It's on the internet,

0:29:20.240 --> 0:29:24.840
<v Speaker 2>so just google it. I had a deal made. I

0:29:24.880 --> 0:29:26.880
<v Speaker 2>was jam of the Reds. I was making a deal

0:29:26.920 --> 0:29:29.640
<v Speaker 2>with Ed Wade at the trade deadline, and he and

0:29:29.680 --> 0:29:32.720
<v Speaker 2>I had agreed to a deal that would send Brandon

0:29:32.840 --> 0:29:38.080
<v Speaker 2>Larsen to Philadelphia for Scott Rowland straight up and John Allen,

0:29:38.640 --> 0:29:42.400
<v Speaker 2>John Allen, the chief executive officer, nixed the trade because

0:29:42.440 --> 0:29:45.680
<v Speaker 2>of money. I asked him how much money did I

0:29:45.760 --> 0:29:49.680
<v Speaker 2>have to come up with to make you approve the deal?

0:29:49.680 --> 0:29:53.640
<v Speaker 2>And he gave me a figure. I went back on

0:29:53.680 --> 0:29:56.560
<v Speaker 2>my phone and I called theo Epstein and I offered

0:29:56.600 --> 0:30:01.920
<v Speaker 2>him prospects for cash. Did that to two other gms?

0:30:02.200 --> 0:30:06.400
<v Speaker 2>I actually and it was pending ownership approval. I actually

0:30:06.640 --> 0:30:10.400
<v Speaker 2>raised the money to make the Larson for Roland deal.

0:30:10.800 --> 0:30:13.200
<v Speaker 2>And the deal with theo Epstein was kind of hurtful

0:30:13.240 --> 0:30:15.040
<v Speaker 2>because I had a young, nineteen year old picture that

0:30:15.080 --> 0:30:17.080
<v Speaker 2>through ninety nine, which back then was a big deal.

0:30:17.120 --> 0:30:18.880
<v Speaker 2>It's not the way, but back then it was a

0:30:18.880 --> 0:30:22.640
<v Speaker 2>big deal. And I brought it to John Allen and

0:30:22.720 --> 0:30:25.720
<v Speaker 2>he nixed it as well, and the deal fell through.

0:30:26.440 --> 0:30:27.840
<v Speaker 2>He can look that up on the internet.

0:30:28.680 --> 0:30:31.800
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, but that was to me for you July two

0:30:31.840 --> 0:30:34.840
<v Speaker 4>thousand and two. Yeah, Brandon Larson or for Scott Williamson

0:30:34.840 --> 0:30:37.560
<v Speaker 4>from the Reds to the Phillies for Scott Roland and

0:30:37.680 --> 0:30:40.920
<v Speaker 4>but vetoed by John Allen due to financial concerns.

0:30:40.560 --> 0:30:42.800
<v Speaker 2>Not on and there were and then look, there were

0:30:42.840 --> 0:30:45.200
<v Speaker 2>other deals like that. I remember the other one was

0:30:45.280 --> 0:30:47.959
<v Speaker 2>Chuck Finley. I had a deal for Chuck Finley, again

0:30:48.560 --> 0:30:51.719
<v Speaker 2>mixed by ownership. So look, that became a way of

0:30:51.760 --> 0:30:56.600
<v Speaker 2>life for me. Unfortunately, once once mart Shot was no

0:30:56.680 --> 0:30:59.960
<v Speaker 2>longer under control with the Reds, it became very different

0:31:00.360 --> 0:31:03.600
<v Speaker 2>to get deals approved, even though they were deals that

0:31:03.880 --> 0:31:05.840
<v Speaker 2>we're going to put the Reds in a position to win.

0:31:05.920 --> 0:31:08.000
<v Speaker 2>And look, at the end of the day, you know,

0:31:08.240 --> 0:31:10.280
<v Speaker 2>we all have to live with chain of command and

0:31:10.320 --> 0:31:13.160
<v Speaker 2>follow through it. And that's what we did. And look,

0:31:13.200 --> 0:31:15.600
<v Speaker 2>I tried to keep all of those deals out of

0:31:15.640 --> 0:31:18.800
<v Speaker 2>the public eye at the time because it doesn't do

0:31:18.840 --> 0:31:20.880
<v Speaker 2>any good. You know, when you work for an organization,

0:31:21.200 --> 0:31:23.959
<v Speaker 2>you got to be loyal to that organization. But frustrating,

0:31:24.040 --> 0:31:26.720
<v Speaker 2>Tim Jeff absolutely.

0:31:27.920 --> 0:31:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh, Jim, Jim, how your first year as not a

0:31:33.080 --> 0:31:37.280
<v Speaker 1>general manager after sixteen straight years, how much did you

0:31:37.520 --> 0:31:42.640
<v Speaker 1>miss the drama and the pressure of the trade deadline

0:31:42.680 --> 0:31:45.080
<v Speaker 1>that you're no longer there to make a deal.

0:31:46.400 --> 0:31:50.720
<v Speaker 2>Zero zero. Do you know what it's like? Do you

0:31:50.760 --> 0:31:52.560
<v Speaker 2>know what it's like I want to be able to

0:31:52.600 --> 0:31:56.080
<v Speaker 2>hang out with tell us? Can I tell you what

0:31:56.160 --> 0:31:58.960
<v Speaker 2>it's like to be able to take your family or

0:31:59.040 --> 0:32:01.200
<v Speaker 2>your wife out to dinner. Do you know what it's

0:32:01.360 --> 0:32:03.320
<v Speaker 2>like to say, I'm going to the movies tomorrow night

0:32:03.640 --> 0:32:05.840
<v Speaker 2>at seen the seven o'clock show and eat popcorn with

0:32:05.880 --> 0:32:08.080
<v Speaker 2>assault on it. Do you know what that's like to

0:32:08.080 --> 0:32:11.840
<v Speaker 2>be able to watch my Lakers play at the area.

0:32:11.920 --> 0:32:14.400
<v Speaker 2>Do you know what it's like to watch the Cowboys

0:32:14.400 --> 0:32:16.960
<v Speaker 2>on Sunday? Do you know what that's like for Do

0:32:17.040 --> 0:32:18.840
<v Speaker 2>you realize I have an actual life? Do you know

0:32:18.880 --> 0:32:21.800
<v Speaker 2>I have a family and I actually have a life

0:32:21.880 --> 0:32:25.360
<v Speaker 2>outside of baseball, Tim and Jeff, I never had that

0:32:25.880 --> 0:32:29.400
<v Speaker 2>my entire life. My entire life, I was in baseball.

0:32:29.400 --> 0:32:32.240
<v Speaker 2>I went from college to the big leagues right out

0:32:32.280 --> 0:32:34.360
<v Speaker 2>of I graduated in eighty three. I started working for

0:32:34.360 --> 0:32:37.120
<v Speaker 2>the Pirates in eighty four and that's where I was

0:32:37.200 --> 0:32:42.440
<v Speaker 2>for decades, working twenty four to seven. Did I miss it? No?

0:32:43.080 --> 0:32:45.280
<v Speaker 2>And by the way, I still go to the games.

0:32:45.360 --> 0:32:48.000
<v Speaker 2>I still talk I talked to the GMS more in

0:32:48.080 --> 0:32:50.160
<v Speaker 2>this role than I did when I was a GM,

0:32:50.200 --> 0:32:51.920
<v Speaker 2>and they liked me more now than they did that

0:32:52.520 --> 0:32:55.240
<v Speaker 2>It's actually better for me in almost every area. And

0:32:55.280 --> 0:32:58.160
<v Speaker 2>by the way, I can't make a bad trade, and

0:32:58.160 --> 0:33:00.200
<v Speaker 2>by the way, I come up with a bad trade,

0:33:00.480 --> 0:33:04.160
<v Speaker 2>everybody forgets about it next week. It's can't be any better.

0:33:05.640 --> 0:33:09.160
<v Speaker 1>So, Jim, have you ever met anyone who loves the

0:33:09.200 --> 0:33:13.400
<v Speaker 1>trade deadline like right now in this role more than you?

0:33:13.440 --> 0:33:16.880
<v Speaker 1>Because I have never seen anybody love it like you do.

0:33:17.040 --> 0:33:21.360
<v Speaker 1>And I have never seen anybody sell a trade roomer

0:33:21.520 --> 0:33:24.040
<v Speaker 1>better than you. There are times I listen to you

0:33:24.520 --> 0:33:27.280
<v Speaker 1>and I say, there's no way this is going to happen.

0:33:27.800 --> 0:33:30.280
<v Speaker 1>I don't believe in this. And by the time you're done,

0:33:30.360 --> 0:33:33.479
<v Speaker 1>I'm thinking, this is a great trade. This has to happen.

0:33:34.120 --> 0:33:37.560
<v Speaker 1>Where did you get that ability from to make sure

0:33:37.680 --> 0:33:40.360
<v Speaker 1>you could sell the trade that you're talking about.

0:33:41.480 --> 0:33:43.800
<v Speaker 2>I was three years old and I'm sitting on my

0:33:44.120 --> 0:33:48.360
<v Speaker 2>dad's lap and he's talking. He was a big Boston

0:33:48.400 --> 0:33:51.320
<v Speaker 2>Red Sox fan, and Dick O'Connell was the general manager,

0:33:51.400 --> 0:33:55.840
<v Speaker 2>Tom Yacki was the owner, and my dad every single

0:33:56.080 --> 0:33:58.320
<v Speaker 2>night would say, now would you trade this guy for

0:33:58.400 --> 0:34:00.880
<v Speaker 2>that guy? And what about this trade? And what if

0:34:00.880 --> 0:34:03.680
<v Speaker 2>we would do this trade and that was my relationship

0:34:03.720 --> 0:34:06.160
<v Speaker 2>with my dad. Of all the things we had in common,

0:34:06.280 --> 0:34:10.160
<v Speaker 2>that was it. It was baseball and his favorite part

0:34:10.239 --> 0:34:12.560
<v Speaker 2>was the trade. So when I'm a young child, that

0:34:12.760 --> 0:34:15.719
<v Speaker 2>was my passion and so that has always stayed there.

0:34:15.760 --> 0:34:19.560
<v Speaker 2>And so yeah, I love it. I love the ability

0:34:19.560 --> 0:34:22.960
<v Speaker 2>to make teams better. I love I love the drama

0:34:23.000 --> 0:34:27.400
<v Speaker 2>that comes with it. I love the excitement of sports

0:34:27.560 --> 0:34:30.560
<v Speaker 2>about winning and making teams better. I mean, when you

0:34:30.600 --> 0:34:33.640
<v Speaker 2>sit there at the trade deadline and you can make

0:34:33.680 --> 0:34:36.359
<v Speaker 2>a trade and give your team a chance to win,

0:34:36.680 --> 0:34:39.520
<v Speaker 2>there's not a feeling like that because everyone in that

0:34:39.560 --> 0:34:43.000
<v Speaker 2>clubhouse knows that you just contributed like the star player.

0:34:43.560 --> 0:34:45.480
<v Speaker 2>And if you're a rebuilding team, you know what it

0:34:45.480 --> 0:34:47.759
<v Speaker 2>feels like when you can trade Jeff Shaw for Paul

0:34:47.800 --> 0:34:50.359
<v Speaker 2>Karnerko and then trade him for Mike Cameron and him

0:34:50.400 --> 0:34:53.360
<v Speaker 2>for Ken Griffey Junior. Do you know what that feels like.

0:34:54.000 --> 0:34:57.480
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's it's rewarding, it's fun, and you're helping

0:34:58.000 --> 0:35:01.760
<v Speaker 2>an organization, you're helping play, you're helping a fan base,

0:35:02.120 --> 0:35:05.160
<v Speaker 2>you're helping a group of people, and the excitement and

0:35:05.200 --> 0:35:07.960
<v Speaker 2>the fun of trying to make an impact to entertaining

0:35:08.080 --> 0:35:11.840
<v Speaker 2>people and bring a winner and make people feel good.

0:35:12.719 --> 0:35:14.480
<v Speaker 2>There's nothing like it. You know, there's a lot of

0:35:14.480 --> 0:35:16.439
<v Speaker 2>people out there that don't know where their next meal

0:35:16.560 --> 0:35:18.160
<v Speaker 2>is gonna come from. There's a lot of people that

0:35:18.239 --> 0:35:20.919
<v Speaker 2>go to jobs that they don't like, and they live

0:35:21.000 --> 0:35:24.160
<v Speaker 2>through sports and they get excited when their team wins.

0:35:24.200 --> 0:35:26.120
<v Speaker 2>And when you can do something to help their team

0:35:26.160 --> 0:35:29.640
<v Speaker 2>win indirectly, that makes their life better and their bad

0:35:29.719 --> 0:35:32.400
<v Speaker 2>day at work or their divorced or their financial troubles

0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:36.000
<v Speaker 2>go away when you win five to one. And if

0:35:36.040 --> 0:35:37.719
<v Speaker 2>I had a chance to sit in that seat and

0:35:37.760 --> 0:35:39.680
<v Speaker 2>help that team win five to one and have a

0:35:39.719 --> 0:35:42.839
<v Speaker 2>small part of that, yeah, that's rewarding and it feels good.

0:35:48.320 --> 0:35:49.760
<v Speaker 1>J I grew up in.

0:35:49.600 --> 0:35:54.120
<v Speaker 4>The Washington, DC area, and so when the Nationals came

0:35:54.160 --> 0:35:58.360
<v Speaker 4>to town, I was twelve, So I mean talk about

0:35:58.440 --> 0:36:02.680
<v Speaker 4>prime to get a National League team in your area.

0:36:02.719 --> 0:36:04.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean it was just such a special time.

0:36:05.080 --> 0:36:08.400
<v Speaker 4>You took over, correct me if I'm wrong, right before

0:36:08.480 --> 0:36:11.840
<v Speaker 4>they moved, like the off season before they became the

0:36:11.920 --> 0:36:15.239
<v Speaker 4>Nationals officially and came to DC. You also obviously were

0:36:15.280 --> 0:36:17.480
<v Speaker 4>general manager when they moved to Nationals Park.

0:36:17.880 --> 0:36:18.840
<v Speaker 1>That must have been.

0:36:18.800 --> 0:36:22.799
<v Speaker 4>Just on top of being the general manager, dealing with

0:36:22.840 --> 0:36:26.279
<v Speaker 4>the move and then dealing with a new ballpark. That's

0:36:26.320 --> 0:36:29.279
<v Speaker 4>something that was probably a lot on your plate at

0:36:29.280 --> 0:36:30.120
<v Speaker 4>one time.

0:36:30.000 --> 0:36:33.320
<v Speaker 2>Wasn't it. It was a lot of fun, it was exciting.

0:36:33.360 --> 0:36:35.800
<v Speaker 2>And I'll tell you the funny story at how it happened,

0:36:35.840 --> 0:36:39.040
<v Speaker 2>because you know, I was sitting there in Los Angeles

0:36:39.480 --> 0:36:44.239
<v Speaker 2>and I was having a burrito on Melrose Avenue when

0:36:44.239 --> 0:36:48.320
<v Speaker 2>the Commissioner's office called me and they had offered the

0:36:48.520 --> 0:36:51.320
<v Speaker 2>interim GM job to Bob Watson, who turned him down.

0:36:52.120 --> 0:36:54.239
<v Speaker 2>And they called me and said, you know, would you

0:36:54.400 --> 0:36:58.480
<v Speaker 2>like to, you know, come run the Montreal expos as

0:36:58.560 --> 0:37:03.080
<v Speaker 2>they moved to to Washington. And I said, you know what,

0:37:03.320 --> 0:37:05.600
<v Speaker 2>I don't think. So, you know, I've just started this

0:37:05.760 --> 0:37:09.880
<v Speaker 2>media career. You know, I've gotten this job with ESPN.

0:37:09.920 --> 0:37:12.759
<v Speaker 2>I'm working on this show called Cole Pizza, which has

0:37:12.800 --> 0:37:15.799
<v Speaker 2>been really fun, and you know, right now, I think

0:37:15.800 --> 0:37:18.520
<v Speaker 2>I want to see how this kind of plays out.

0:37:18.719 --> 0:37:22.440
<v Speaker 2>And Bob Dupey, who is the right hand MANDA Commissioner

0:37:22.440 --> 0:37:24.319
<v Speaker 2>Bud Selik at the time, said to me, well, we'll

0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:26.960
<v Speaker 2>pay you x and I said, well, what time is

0:37:27.000 --> 0:37:30.840
<v Speaker 2>the flight I'll get on it. Yeah, and so I

0:37:31.120 --> 0:37:34.839
<v Speaker 2>got on the flight. I accepted right away, and then

0:37:34.880 --> 0:37:37.080
<v Speaker 2>they put me together with Tony Tavers, who was the

0:37:37.120 --> 0:37:39.400
<v Speaker 2>president at the time. He didn't have any input in

0:37:39.440 --> 0:37:42.799
<v Speaker 2>hiring me, kind of put us together. Frank Robinson was

0:37:42.800 --> 0:37:45.160
<v Speaker 2>the manager. So the three of us get put together,

0:37:45.640 --> 0:37:47.720
<v Speaker 2>where none of us hired each other. It's just okay,

0:37:47.760 --> 0:37:49.879
<v Speaker 2>you three make this thing work. And by the way,

0:37:49.920 --> 0:37:53.120
<v Speaker 2>you have no money. You can't hire anybody. We're selling

0:37:53.160 --> 0:37:55.960
<v Speaker 2>the team, so it's got to be bear bone. So

0:37:56.160 --> 0:37:57.799
<v Speaker 2>if you want to hire someone, then you have to

0:37:57.800 --> 0:38:00.680
<v Speaker 2>fire someone to replace him, but you you can't add

0:38:00.680 --> 0:38:04.400
<v Speaker 2>a penny. And so yeah, it was a fun challenge.

0:38:04.440 --> 0:38:08.680
<v Speaker 2>But the excitement of bringing back baseball to Washington, d C.

0:38:08.880 --> 0:38:12.399
<v Speaker 2>After all those years since the seventies. To be able

0:38:12.400 --> 0:38:15.600
<v Speaker 2>to have that opportunity and be a part of that,

0:38:15.600 --> 0:38:18.920
<v Speaker 2>that was incredible to be through the ownership process, all

0:38:18.920 --> 0:38:21.200
<v Speaker 2>these different owners coming in and you know, one of

0:38:21.239 --> 0:38:23.879
<v Speaker 2>the prospective owners said, what keeps you up at night?

0:38:24.560 --> 0:38:27.359
<v Speaker 2>Is it? Brian Schneider the catcher, and I looked at

0:38:27.400 --> 0:38:29.239
<v Speaker 2>me and they started laughing. I said, keep me up

0:38:29.280 --> 0:38:33.279
<v Speaker 2>the night, my children. Certainly not a baseball team like

0:38:33.360 --> 0:38:35.319
<v Speaker 2>what are you asking? And soon as they left the room,

0:38:35.680 --> 0:38:37.799
<v Speaker 2>I made sure people knew they're not going to buy

0:38:37.840 --> 0:38:39.600
<v Speaker 2>this team. But that's the kind of question they're going

0:38:39.640 --> 0:38:42.839
<v Speaker 2>to ask me. That was just bizarre. But the right,

0:38:43.080 --> 0:38:46.080
<v Speaker 2>the right ownership group got at the Learner family. That

0:38:46.200 --> 0:38:49.000
<v Speaker 2>was the right ownership who brought a world championship to DC.

0:38:49.320 --> 0:38:52.800
<v Speaker 2>As you know, Jeff, and so the experience was amazing.

0:38:53.200 --> 0:38:55.560
<v Speaker 2>That first game at RFK Stadium, I thought the entire

0:38:55.600 --> 0:38:58.799
<v Speaker 2>stadium was going to collapse. It was shaking. It was

0:38:58.880 --> 0:39:01.879
<v Speaker 2>shaking so too. In the stand. I had my late

0:39:01.960 --> 0:39:05.040
<v Speaker 2>parents there, I had my mentor Sid Thrift was in

0:39:05.080 --> 0:39:07.799
<v Speaker 2>the house at the time. I mean, my kids were

0:39:07.840 --> 0:39:10.440
<v Speaker 2>all there. I mean it was it was amazing to

0:39:10.480 --> 0:39:12.399
<v Speaker 2>be at DC. And now I'll never forget the first

0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:16.799
<v Speaker 2>game at NAT's Park against the Atlanta Braves. Again, I

0:39:16.840 --> 0:39:19.240
<v Speaker 2>had my late mom and dad there, a special moment,

0:39:19.360 --> 0:39:22.720
<v Speaker 2>all my kids were there. It was incredible. And Ryan

0:39:22.880 --> 0:39:26.160
<v Speaker 2>Zimmerman the walk off home run. He was my first

0:39:26.239 --> 0:39:29.560
<v Speaker 2>round pick my first year in Washington, personally made the

0:39:29.600 --> 0:39:32.480
<v Speaker 2>pick and there he was walking it off to centerfield

0:39:32.520 --> 0:39:35.239
<v Speaker 2>against the Braves to open the stadium. That was the

0:39:35.239 --> 0:39:37.360
<v Speaker 2>moment I'll never forget and I feel very blessed that

0:39:37.400 --> 0:39:39.480
<v Speaker 2>I got dad the honor of privilege to be a

0:39:39.560 --> 0:39:42.920
<v Speaker 2>part of the start of the Washington Nationals.

0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:47.399
<v Speaker 1>And Jim Ryan Zimmerman is the greatest National ever. I'm

0:39:47.400 --> 0:39:50.080
<v Speaker 1>not sure there's a way around that. I mean, tell

0:39:50.160 --> 0:39:52.239
<v Speaker 1>us what it was like when you decided this is

0:39:52.280 --> 0:39:54.080
<v Speaker 1>the guy we're going to take. This is when we're

0:39:54.080 --> 0:39:55.920
<v Speaker 1>going to bring him to the big leagues at like

0:39:56.040 --> 0:39:56.800
<v Speaker 1>age twenty.

0:39:56.880 --> 0:39:58.960
<v Speaker 2>It'll put it right in the middle of the order.

0:39:59.080 --> 0:40:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Tell us how that worked.

0:40:01.120 --> 0:40:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and it was interesting because we had a conflict

0:40:03.680 --> 0:40:05.759
<v Speaker 2>with my top advisors and we probably did take the

0:40:05.800 --> 0:40:07.680
<v Speaker 2>wrong guy at the time, although it worked out so

0:40:07.960 --> 0:40:09.920
<v Speaker 2>it's okay. But I'll tell you the story. So I

0:40:09.920 --> 0:40:13.239
<v Speaker 2>had my Cadillac Escalade at the time, and in the

0:40:13.400 --> 0:40:17.480
<v Speaker 2>in my escalade loaded up as Barry Larkin, Jose Cardinel,

0:40:18.000 --> 0:40:20.759
<v Speaker 2>Bob Boone. So we have we have a bunch of

0:40:20.800 --> 0:40:24.560
<v Speaker 2>executives all in this in this escalade going down to

0:40:24.640 --> 0:40:28.799
<v Speaker 2>Virginia to see Zimmerman play. I remember Barry Larkin being

0:40:28.800 --> 0:40:30.960
<v Speaker 2>in the way back kind of crunch because we didn't

0:40:30.960 --> 0:40:33.719
<v Speaker 2>have enough room in the car. And we all get

0:40:33.719 --> 0:40:36.880
<v Speaker 2>out and we're watching two players. It's Ryan Zimmerman against

0:40:36.960 --> 0:40:41.200
<v Speaker 2>Ryan Braun, who also went that same year. But the

0:40:41.280 --> 0:40:46.680
<v Speaker 2>thing about Ryan Zimmerman that day was that he was

0:40:46.719 --> 0:40:49.040
<v Speaker 2>a gold Glove defender at third Now we later heard

0:40:49.080 --> 0:40:50.920
<v Speaker 2>his back and he ended up moving to first base,

0:40:50.960 --> 0:40:54.839
<v Speaker 2>but when we drafted him, he was gold Glove third base.

0:40:54.880 --> 0:40:58.320
<v Speaker 2>He was Scott Rowland defensively like he was that good.

0:40:58.360 --> 0:41:01.239
<v Speaker 2>The other part of him he could hit big league

0:41:01.280 --> 0:41:05.120
<v Speaker 2>pitching right now, and what I mean by that is

0:41:05.200 --> 0:41:08.840
<v Speaker 2>high velocity, breaking balls, change up. Owned the other way

0:41:09.280 --> 0:41:13.080
<v Speaker 2>had the approach, low risk, bring him to the big leagues.

0:41:13.080 --> 0:41:15.400
<v Speaker 2>You can hit right now. And in fact I drafted

0:41:15.440 --> 0:41:17.480
<v Speaker 2>him in June. He was in the big leagues in September.

0:41:17.680 --> 0:41:21.120
<v Speaker 2>Frank Robinson, my manager, didn't want him. We had Vinny Castillo.

0:41:21.160 --> 0:41:22.640
<v Speaker 2>He didn't want him. He said he won't hit. You

0:41:22.680 --> 0:41:24.480
<v Speaker 2>can't get a guy in the big leaguexact quick. I said,

0:41:24.520 --> 0:41:27.040
<v Speaker 2>yeah you can, and he ended up hitting three hundred

0:41:27.719 --> 0:41:30.600
<v Speaker 2>and was playing plus plus defense. Jay, you can and

0:41:30.640 --> 0:41:32.560
<v Speaker 2>a great kid. But the other thing that Zim brought

0:41:32.560 --> 0:41:36.200
<v Speaker 2>to the table Jeff and Tim was all the intangibles.

0:41:36.760 --> 0:41:39.000
<v Speaker 2>When I drafted Zim, I said, there's your cover of

0:41:39.040 --> 0:41:42.360
<v Speaker 2>your media guide, there's the cover of the yearbook, there's

0:41:42.400 --> 0:41:45.600
<v Speaker 2>the cover of the franchise. It's not just the talent,

0:41:46.480 --> 0:41:50.640
<v Speaker 2>but it's the makeup, the character, the family values, everything

0:41:50.760 --> 0:41:53.840
<v Speaker 2>we want to be with the Nationals. He's the human

0:41:53.880 --> 0:41:56.719
<v Speaker 2>being we want to be now. Barry Larkin and jose

0:41:56.840 --> 0:41:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Carnell they wanted Ryan Braun, and you know what, baseball wise,

0:41:59.400 --> 0:42:04.120
<v Speaker 2>they were right. But Bryan Brun didn't have the intangibles

0:42:04.120 --> 0:42:07.120
<v Speaker 2>a Zim had. So although Zim wasn't the player bron was.

0:42:07.880 --> 0:42:11.200
<v Speaker 2>Zimmerman did hold up that World Series trophy when they

0:42:11.200 --> 0:42:14.560
<v Speaker 2>got off that charter jet back to DC, didn't he?

0:42:14.560 --> 0:42:17.680
<v Speaker 2>He led that parade, didn't he? So he was the

0:42:17.800 --> 0:42:20.840
<v Speaker 2>right pick, just wasn't the best player in that draft.

0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:25.080
<v Speaker 1>Jim, I dealt with Frank Robinson a lot, and I

0:42:25.280 --> 0:42:28.400
<v Speaker 1>love Frank Robinson in front of me. But he was

0:42:29.080 --> 0:42:32.760
<v Speaker 1>a ferocious player and a ferocious band when he needed

0:42:32.800 --> 0:42:35.360
<v Speaker 1>to be. You tangled with him a few times, but

0:42:35.760 --> 0:42:39.240
<v Speaker 1>I assume you loved every second you spent with Frank Robinson.

0:42:39.880 --> 0:42:42.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I love Frank. He's a softie. His outside's tough.

0:42:42.600 --> 0:42:45.080
<v Speaker 2>His outside will scare the crap out of you, to

0:42:45.080 --> 0:42:47.799
<v Speaker 2>be honest, but the inside is he's a teddy bear,

0:42:48.200 --> 0:42:50.520
<v Speaker 2>that's the truth. And he has a very loyal group

0:42:50.560 --> 0:42:53.200
<v Speaker 2>around him on his coaching staff. I liked all him.

0:42:53.239 --> 0:42:55.440
<v Speaker 2>I always got a big kip when Mike Wallace he

0:42:55.480 --> 0:42:58.600
<v Speaker 2>always would put those yellow m and ms on his

0:42:58.719 --> 0:43:01.480
<v Speaker 2>seat on the airplane. All his coaches ate those peena

0:43:01.560 --> 0:43:05.200
<v Speaker 2>m and ms. Boy, they love those. But you know, my, my,

0:43:05.520 --> 0:43:08.200
<v Speaker 2>you know, he and I had some disagreements, you know,

0:43:08.280 --> 0:43:10.880
<v Speaker 2>a lot baseball wise, that's all part of it. I

0:43:10.960 --> 0:43:13.279
<v Speaker 2>learned a lot from him as well. We had some

0:43:13.360 --> 0:43:16.160
<v Speaker 2>really funny moments and some really bad moments. I remember

0:43:16.200 --> 0:43:20.360
<v Speaker 2>when you know, John Wetland turned on some firecrackers in

0:43:20.360 --> 0:43:23.279
<v Speaker 2>the middle of bullpen almost well actually the bullpen did

0:43:23.320 --> 0:43:26.919
<v Speaker 2>go on fire on the right bullpen, and Frank Robins said,

0:43:26.920 --> 0:43:28.640
<v Speaker 2>you got to fire him this minute. You got to

0:43:28.640 --> 0:43:31.239
<v Speaker 2>get him out this minute. And look, I said, look,

0:43:31.880 --> 0:43:33.840
<v Speaker 2>let me think about it overnight. We'll get to it tomorrow.

0:43:33.920 --> 0:43:36.120
<v Speaker 2>Let me talk to John Wetland. But that was a

0:43:36.160 --> 0:43:38.880
<v Speaker 2>difficult that was a difficult time. We disagreed on some

0:43:38.960 --> 0:43:43.120
<v Speaker 2>players like Zimmerman and Castilla that year, but you know

0:43:43.239 --> 0:43:45.440
<v Speaker 2>it was give and take. You know, he he would

0:43:45.520 --> 0:43:47.759
<v Speaker 2>he would give. He would give and take. I would

0:43:47.760 --> 0:43:49.600
<v Speaker 2>give and take, and we'd work through it. When we

0:43:49.640 --> 0:43:52.080
<v Speaker 2>agree to disagree. We both said, okay, we'll see, we'll

0:43:52.120 --> 0:43:54.399
<v Speaker 2>see who's right, you know, let's wait, see who's right,

0:43:54.640 --> 0:43:56.319
<v Speaker 2>and then the other one would own it if we

0:43:56.320 --> 0:43:59.320
<v Speaker 2>were wrong, like both of us did that. I think, my, my, U.

0:44:00.000 --> 0:44:03.000
<v Speaker 2>It's interesting conversation with him, and I'm just thinking about

0:44:03.040 --> 0:44:05.400
<v Speaker 2>this because of Sunday was the Hall of Fame. The

0:44:05.440 --> 0:44:08.640
<v Speaker 2>greatest defensive center fielder I ever saw in my life

0:44:08.680 --> 0:44:11.239
<v Speaker 2>was Andrew Jones, and it wasn't close. And I wish

0:44:11.320 --> 0:44:14.920
<v Speaker 2>they had metrics back then to measure him, because nobody

0:44:14.920 --> 0:44:17.040
<v Speaker 2>could take a single double or home away better than

0:44:17.080 --> 0:44:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Andrew Jones. His steps, his angles, his first step quickness,

0:44:20.400 --> 0:44:22.759
<v Speaker 2>his reaction time was the best I ever saw. And

0:44:22.880 --> 0:44:24.719
<v Speaker 2>nobody was close. And I've seen a lot of great

0:44:24.719 --> 0:44:28.200
<v Speaker 2>defensive centerfielders in my life. Jim Edmonds was one, Byron

0:44:28.239 --> 0:44:30.720
<v Speaker 2>Buckston's one, and I've seen a lot. But I asked

0:44:30.760 --> 0:44:35.320
<v Speaker 2>Frank who was the best defensive center fielding you ever saw?

0:44:36.160 --> 0:44:39.120
<v Speaker 2>And he looked at me and he said, Andrew Jones

0:44:39.200 --> 0:44:42.239
<v Speaker 2>is one A and Willie Mays is one B. And

0:44:42.360 --> 0:44:45.400
<v Speaker 2>I didn't see Willie Mays in his prime. But I

0:44:45.440 --> 0:44:48.399
<v Speaker 2>know one thing I could trust Frank Robinson in the answer.

0:44:49.200 --> 0:44:51.759
<v Speaker 1>Right, that's I mean, that's a dad.

0:44:51.800 --> 0:44:54.759
<v Speaker 4>When just to say, when we had our little Hall

0:44:54.800 --> 0:44:57.840
<v Speaker 4>of Fame special Dad, you were praising Andrew Jones and

0:44:57.880 --> 0:45:02.000
<v Speaker 4>his defensive prowess. Absolutely, but I just got chills hearing

0:45:02.080 --> 0:45:05.800
<v Speaker 4>that about what Frank said, one A, one B.

0:45:06.040 --> 0:45:07.800
<v Speaker 1>That is really special.

0:45:07.920 --> 0:45:16.319
<v Speaker 2>That's cool. Yeah, yeah, Jim.

0:45:16.600 --> 0:45:19.320
<v Speaker 1>We could go on for hours about this, but we're

0:45:19.400 --> 0:45:22.520
<v Speaker 1>gonna We're gonna have to let you go here. I

0:45:23.000 --> 0:45:26.239
<v Speaker 1>want to thank you again. You put us in the

0:45:26.400 --> 0:45:29.319
<v Speaker 1>room on trade deadline time, you put us in the

0:45:29.360 --> 0:45:32.320
<v Speaker 1>room at the winter meetings, and what a general manager

0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:36.319
<v Speaker 1>goes through? Have you ever been to the movies? Jim?

0:45:36.360 --> 0:45:39.640
<v Speaker 1>He just asked us, Jem, how great is that? I

0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:43.160
<v Speaker 1>thought he was gonna say, I could not exist without

0:45:43.200 --> 0:45:46.160
<v Speaker 1>being the GM. Instead, it was the greatest relief in

0:45:46.200 --> 0:45:47.200
<v Speaker 1>a way ever.

0:45:47.440 --> 0:45:52.239
<v Speaker 2>Right, Yeah, it was. I had great memories, enjoyed it.

0:45:52.280 --> 0:45:55.120
<v Speaker 2>I would never take it back. I'm glad I sacrificed

0:45:55.160 --> 0:45:58.160
<v Speaker 2>all I sacrifice. And by the way, my biggest concern

0:45:58.200 --> 0:46:01.360
<v Speaker 2>in my whole life was how my kids would react

0:46:01.440 --> 0:46:04.000
<v Speaker 2>because I wasn't able to go to all of their

0:46:04.080 --> 0:46:07.040
<v Speaker 2>games or most of their games, and I always was

0:46:07.080 --> 0:46:09.279
<v Speaker 2>concerned about what it was going to be like when

0:46:09.320 --> 0:46:13.399
<v Speaker 2>they grow up. All of them today said that they

0:46:13.560 --> 0:46:16.400
<v Speaker 2>supported it and that they're glad that they got to

0:46:16.440 --> 0:46:18.319
<v Speaker 2>be the son of a GM to experience all the

0:46:18.320 --> 0:46:21.359
<v Speaker 2>benefits that they got, and they were glad and they're

0:46:21.400 --> 0:46:24.320
<v Speaker 2>okay with sacrificing what they did of not having a

0:46:24.440 --> 0:46:28.400
<v Speaker 2>full time dad for that, And that makes me feel

0:46:28.440 --> 0:46:31.839
<v Speaker 2>really good that today that they were able to view

0:46:31.880 --> 0:46:33.760
<v Speaker 2>it that way, because that's the one thing I was concerned.

0:46:33.760 --> 0:46:36.000
<v Speaker 2>And by the way, before I took the Nationals job,

0:46:36.640 --> 0:46:39.440
<v Speaker 2>I made sure to ask all of them what should

0:46:39.480 --> 0:46:41.480
<v Speaker 2>I do? What do you want me to do? And

0:46:41.520 --> 0:46:43.520
<v Speaker 2>I was not going to take that job, even on

0:46:43.560 --> 0:46:46.520
<v Speaker 2>a number basis, which is all it was. Originally wasn't

0:46:46.520 --> 0:46:49.479
<v Speaker 2>supposed to be five years like it was, but every

0:46:49.520 --> 0:46:51.279
<v Speaker 2>single one of them told me to take it. And

0:46:51.320 --> 0:46:53.200
<v Speaker 2>that's one of the reasons why I did back then,

0:46:53.520 --> 0:46:56.160
<v Speaker 2>because they wanted the opportunity for me not only to

0:46:56.200 --> 0:46:58.920
<v Speaker 2>be there, but so they could go to the ballpark

0:46:58.960 --> 0:46:59.719
<v Speaker 2>every day as well.

0:47:00.920 --> 0:47:03.560
<v Speaker 1>And Jim again last one for me, what's it like?

0:47:03.680 --> 0:47:05.120
<v Speaker 1>Doing a podcast with your son.

0:47:05.200 --> 0:47:05.920
<v Speaker 2>How great is that?

0:47:06.080 --> 0:47:07.120
<v Speaker 1>I know all about it.

0:47:08.160 --> 0:47:09.759
<v Speaker 2>Well I have to do is look at you two

0:47:10.080 --> 0:47:12.839
<v Speaker 2>and understand that as much as you're enjoying it, Tim,

0:47:13.040 --> 0:47:14.000
<v Speaker 2>I'm enjoying it more.

0:47:15.120 --> 0:47:16.000
<v Speaker 1>That's so good.

0:47:16.400 --> 0:47:16.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:47:16.800 --> 0:47:18.960
<v Speaker 4>The only problem is my dad had the choice of

0:47:19.000 --> 0:47:22.160
<v Speaker 4>only one son to co host with. I could imagine

0:47:22.200 --> 0:47:23.800
<v Speaker 4>having five sons to co host.

0:47:24.640 --> 0:47:27.000
<v Speaker 2>Well, I don't have to worry about that because only

0:47:27.040 --> 0:47:29.279
<v Speaker 2>one of them wants to write. I have one son

0:47:29.320 --> 0:47:32.319
<v Speaker 2>that's the general manager of the USC football team, so

0:47:32.440 --> 0:47:35.040
<v Speaker 2>he's building, you know, he's trying to build a championship

0:47:35.080 --> 0:47:38.040
<v Speaker 2>team there for the USC Trojans. I've got one son

0:47:38.120 --> 0:47:40.839
<v Speaker 2>that's handling finances for people out the world. And I've

0:47:40.840 --> 0:47:44.360
<v Speaker 2>got another son that's a world renowned dancer that is

0:47:44.400 --> 0:47:47.720
<v Speaker 2>now choreographing for some of the best dancers and music

0:47:47.840 --> 0:47:50.800
<v Speaker 2>videos in the world. So I got my sons absolutely everywhere.

0:47:50.840 --> 0:47:53.160
<v Speaker 2>So I'm lucky. I'm lucky at least they had one

0:47:53.160 --> 0:47:54.279
<v Speaker 2>that wanted to do this with me.

0:47:56.000 --> 0:47:58.560
<v Speaker 4>Well, Jim, listen, I didn't tell my dad I wanted

0:47:58.600 --> 0:48:00.920
<v Speaker 4>to do this, but with a baseball mind like yourself,

0:48:01.360 --> 0:48:03.960
<v Speaker 4>and being that we are joined by guests every single

0:48:04.000 --> 0:48:06.879
<v Speaker 4>week for the last three years. It's been the joy

0:48:06.880 --> 0:48:09.560
<v Speaker 4>of our lives to do this show together. Who is

0:48:09.560 --> 0:48:11.279
<v Speaker 4>a guest and no pressure. I mean, we've had a

0:48:11.320 --> 0:48:12.719
<v Speaker 4>lot of guests on the show already, So if you

0:48:12.800 --> 0:48:14.919
<v Speaker 4>name somebody we've already had, we'll have him back.

0:48:14.960 --> 0:48:16.560
<v Speaker 1>But who is a guest you.

0:48:16.680 --> 0:48:21.200
<v Speaker 4>Think would bring us enjoyment, laugh with us, have fun

0:48:21.239 --> 0:48:22.840
<v Speaker 4>with us that you think we should have on Is

0:48:22.840 --> 0:48:24.760
<v Speaker 4>this a great game or what? In all your years

0:48:25.000 --> 0:48:26.759
<v Speaker 4>of baseball knowledge.

0:48:27.480 --> 0:48:30.960
<v Speaker 2>I would say, bring out Johnny Bench.

0:48:33.160 --> 0:48:36.720
<v Speaker 1>Well, we had Johnny Bench on the first year, Jim

0:48:36.760 --> 0:48:42.319
<v Speaker 1>from Cooperstown and Jeff, you got to acknowledge, maybe all

0:48:42.320 --> 0:48:45.200
<v Speaker 1>of our guests, maybe Johnny Bench was the best one.

0:48:45.280 --> 0:48:48.720
<v Speaker 1>He made us laugh, he made us cry, he sang

0:48:48.960 --> 0:48:51.719
<v Speaker 1>for us, and there we are sitting next to the

0:48:51.760 --> 0:48:55.520
<v Speaker 1>greatest catcher of all time and talk about humility and

0:48:55.600 --> 0:48:59.560
<v Speaker 1>everything else and the greatest storyteller in the world. All right, Jeff,

0:48:59.600 --> 0:48:59.960
<v Speaker 1>you know what.

0:49:02.560 --> 0:49:05.440
<v Speaker 2>You get? Yes, I want to get a little more

0:49:05.520 --> 0:49:07.920
<v Speaker 2>up to date, though, I think try to get Marcello

0:49:08.000 --> 0:49:11.680
<v Speaker 2>Hernandez on. That would be my next recommendation. He'd be

0:49:11.719 --> 0:49:12.239
<v Speaker 2>a good one.

0:49:13.160 --> 0:49:17.040
<v Speaker 1>All right, We're on it. We're there, right, we'll figure

0:49:17.040 --> 0:49:17.439
<v Speaker 1>this out.

0:49:17.680 --> 0:49:20.200
<v Speaker 4>Ye, No pressure because I don't book any of the

0:49:20.200 --> 0:49:23.560
<v Speaker 4>guests except for I did get one PGA tour golfer

0:49:23.600 --> 0:49:26.400
<v Speaker 4>Will Zlatorus on the show because I slid.

0:49:26.160 --> 0:49:27.440
<v Speaker 1>Into his DMS.

0:49:27.480 --> 0:49:31.040
<v Speaker 4>That's about all I've contributed love the guest end of things,

0:49:31.280 --> 0:49:34.040
<v Speaker 4>and my dad is such a prepper that he wouldn't

0:49:34.120 --> 0:49:36.920
<v Speaker 4>let me ever surprise him with a guest. I'm sure

0:49:37.120 --> 0:49:40.080
<v Speaker 4>I could find somebody's number and bring somebody in, but

0:49:40.560 --> 0:49:42.360
<v Speaker 4>he's such a prepared guy.

0:49:42.560 --> 0:49:44.560
<v Speaker 1>I feel like he'd lose his mind if he didn't know.

0:49:44.560 --> 0:49:47.879
<v Speaker 2>Who we were on. So look, I got to work

0:49:47.920 --> 0:49:51.280
<v Speaker 2>with your dad at ESPN. You could throw whatever surprise

0:49:51.360 --> 0:49:53.640
<v Speaker 2>at you. As much as he wants to prep, his

0:49:53.840 --> 0:49:57.120
<v Speaker 2>story telling is going to fit whoever the guest is.

0:49:57.640 --> 0:50:00.680
<v Speaker 2>He honestly doesn't need the prep. All he needs is

0:50:00.719 --> 0:50:03.319
<v Speaker 2>his brain and he's got that full time. So go

0:50:03.360 --> 0:50:07.000
<v Speaker 2>ahead and surprise him. I've I watched ESPN surprise him

0:50:07.040 --> 0:50:09.400
<v Speaker 2>for years. Nothing phases him. He's ready to go no

0:50:09.440 --> 0:50:13.040
<v Speaker 2>matter what come on. His life has been right.

0:50:13.560 --> 0:50:16.680
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, Jim for all the great stories that you

0:50:16.920 --> 0:50:20.960
<v Speaker 1>told today. It was absolutely priceless and at a perfect time.

0:50:21.080 --> 0:50:31.400
<v Speaker 1>Trade deadline today thanks Jim, Thanks John, excellent Okay