1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Kesha and the Creepies is a production of I Heart 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:06,600 Speaker 1: Radio trying to tap into everything that's happening right now 3 00:00:06,720 --> 00:00:09,360 Speaker 1: as a chance for change. Like if what we're talking 4 00:00:09,400 --> 00:00:12,159 Speaker 1: about as a society and what you're hearing repeated in 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: the news all the time is how much we need 6 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:16,760 Speaker 1: to change, how much change there needs to be or whatever. 7 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:19,959 Speaker 1: And you know, given the circumstances were in facing a 8 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 1: global pandemic, facing all this uncertainty, if that isn't like 9 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,920 Speaker 1: a time to actually change and have some kind of 10 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: personal accountability moment, I don't really know when is Welcome 11 00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:50,440 Speaker 1: back to Kesha and the Creepies today. I am very 12 00:00:50,479 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 1: excited to welcome my next guest, Laura Jane Grace. How 13 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: are you? And fantastic Kesha. Thank you for having me, 14 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: Thank you for coming on here. I'm such a fan 15 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,320 Speaker 1: of you and your music. Your new record is called 16 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,640 Speaker 1: Stay Alive, which we're all just trying to do exactly now. 17 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 1: And because I funked up the name of the song, 18 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:17,399 Speaker 1: it's called the swimming Pool Song. Yeah. I always find 19 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 1: like naming a song to be kind of arbitrary, like 20 00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: an afterthought, like Okay, I finished it. It has to 21 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 1: be titled something now on the record, So what do 22 00:01:24,400 --> 00:01:27,000 Speaker 1: you call it? And usually you like defer to what 23 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: is the thing that repeats during the chorus, But sometimes 24 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,039 Speaker 1: I feel like that's a cop out, So I don't know. 25 00:01:32,080 --> 00:01:35,000 Speaker 1: I got into the habit, like U, inspired by a 26 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 1: love of Tom Petty, where he would call things like 27 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: the Apartment song. So the reason that like initially intrigued 28 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: me for you to come on this podcast is I 29 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: have such a connection with that particular swimming pool. I 30 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,880 Speaker 1: believe you're talking about the swimming pool at the Rave 31 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:57,160 Speaker 1: in Milwaukee. Yes, exactly right. Okay, so that swimming pool 32 00:01:57,680 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: for those listening, there's a swimming pool in the basement 33 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: of a music venue in Milwaukee, Wisconsin, and I the 34 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 1: first time I ever went there was to see this 35 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: band called The Darkness. Then is a fawless record. I 36 00:02:14,919 --> 00:02:17,280 Speaker 1: think so too. It's such a good record. So I 37 00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:22,160 Speaker 1: take a Greyhound bus from Nashville to Milwaukee with my friend. 38 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:25,079 Speaker 1: We don't have a hotel room. We end up seeing 39 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:30,880 Speaker 1: The Darkness. I catch a wristband of the singers. I'm 40 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: so excited. We end up staying at this woman's hotel 41 00:02:35,560 --> 00:02:37,920 Speaker 1: room that we met at the show. In the middle 42 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 1: of the night. She's so drunk she walks over to 43 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,919 Speaker 1: my boots and starts taking a piss into my boot, 44 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: thinking it's the toilet done. Yeah, thank god. I was 45 00:02:49,639 --> 00:02:53,880 Speaker 1: just be and ever since then, that was one of 46 00:02:53,919 --> 00:02:56,919 Speaker 1: my first times ever going to an out of town venue. 47 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,880 Speaker 1: I was like sixteen years old, fast four. I've played 48 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 1: the ray of multiple times and I'm absolutely obsessed with 49 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:08,880 Speaker 1: the venue. And I don't know if you're aware of 50 00:03:08,919 --> 00:03:12,720 Speaker 1: the connection between that venue and Jeffrey Dahmer. I am 51 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,880 Speaker 1: for the It's the hotel across the street is one 52 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,280 Speaker 1: of the hotels that Dohmer stayed in where they killed 53 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: one of their victims, um so and and to explain 54 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: the rave a little better too, it's like it's an 55 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,400 Speaker 1: old Masonic lodge that's been there for like how like 56 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: a hundred years or something like that. That is multiple levels, 57 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 1: Like there's the biggest venues on the top floor, then 58 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: there's the middle floor, the and then there's the the 59 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: ground level, and then there's the basement level. Which I've 60 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 1: been playing there since like two thousand three or something 61 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: like that, and you know, it's gotten nicer over the years, 62 00:03:47,280 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: but it's always been this big, empty feeling no matter 63 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:53,360 Speaker 1: how many people are in there, like cold feeling. Place 64 00:03:53,480 --> 00:03:57,560 Speaker 1: is super vibi, super creepy. And you know, it used 65 00:03:57,600 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: to be that the downstairs wasn't the backs stage the 66 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 1: dressing room, but they've done it up nicer and nicer. 67 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,880 Speaker 1: And when we first started playing there, you could just 68 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 1: go into the pool and explore and go like, I'll 69 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: crawl around everywhere. And since they've closed off more and 70 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: more and more of it. But the last time I 71 00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 1: went there, it was funny because they had someone who 72 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 1: was like, do you want to tour of the pool afterwards? 73 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: And we're like okay, um, and they like brought us 74 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:21,560 Speaker 1: down there and they're all like pointing it everything out 75 00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:23,240 Speaker 1: and it's like, yeah, I know, ship man, are they 76 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: coming here? For fucking twenty years, we've explored this place 77 00:04:25,960 --> 00:04:28,479 Speaker 1: many times over. It was funny how things had changed though. 78 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 1: Well now all of a sudden, I didn't know the 79 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:32,840 Speaker 1: pool was like a hot commodity. I just got down 80 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 1: there and we always take pictures and we signed the 81 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:41,120 Speaker 1: pool and it did they take you into the underground tunnels? Yes, 82 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,159 Speaker 1: we went into the underground tunnels and the under ground 83 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:45,719 Speaker 1: tunnels totally get like the Nightmare on Elm Street, Freddy 84 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 1: Krueger vibe in there, right, yeah, yeah, And it's amazing. 85 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:53,039 Speaker 1: If you're exploring it just like one or two people together, 86 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: then it's like super creepy. Um. But the pool itself, 87 00:04:56,760 --> 00:05:00,000 Speaker 1: my understanding is that maybe someone might have accidentally fallen 88 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,120 Speaker 1: into it. There's no water in it anymore. It's an 89 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: Olympic sized swimming pool. But also, oh, sorry to backtrack 90 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: a little, to add one more. One more thing to 91 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:09,599 Speaker 1: the Raves history that I feel like it's important to 92 00:05:09,600 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 1: touch on is that it's I believe the second to 93 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: last place that Buddy Holly played at. Oh I didn't 94 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:18,000 Speaker 1: know that, and I'm obsessed with the Rave. Yeah, I 95 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:21,040 Speaker 1: had no idea. There's such a rich history in that building. 96 00:05:21,080 --> 00:05:23,040 Speaker 1: You can feel it when you walk into place. Oh, 97 00:05:23,080 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 1: it's the creepiest. It's It's impressive though, because like obviously 98 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 1: you know that building was not built to be a 99 00:05:30,680 --> 00:05:35,040 Speaker 1: rock and roll venue. It's this you know, massive complex 100 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,160 Speaker 1: and really when you're in those individual venues, like you 101 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 1: can't tell there's another show going on there, like these 102 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: little worlds you enter into, you know, it's so at 103 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:45,920 Speaker 1: odds with with the history of what it comes from, 104 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 1: being a Masonic lodge and everything like that. Um, so 105 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:52,720 Speaker 1: it's really an indescribable place if you've never never been 106 00:05:52,720 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: there for before. But I'm fascinated with places like that, 107 00:05:56,200 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 1: and like the idea of that, of like a place 108 00:05:58,320 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: being built as something and then being repurposed, and like 109 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: the conflict between the history and the present that that's 110 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:08,800 Speaker 1: there then well and the energy that remains. I was 111 00:06:08,839 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: just talking to a parapsychologist before I spoke to you, 112 00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:16,159 Speaker 1: and we were talking about how just like if being 113 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:21,160 Speaker 1: psychic exists, and energy and telepathy and all of these 114 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 1: things that we have names for, but really they just 115 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 1: could be a manifestation of our personal energy. But I 116 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: think the one thing I can't deny is we all 117 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: have an energy. You can feel an energy even through 118 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,000 Speaker 1: a zoom call, which I know you're not a fan of. 119 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:39,719 Speaker 1: I'm not either, Like I would much rather be doing 120 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,000 Speaker 1: this in person, because I feel like you can feel 121 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 1: people's energy, But even over a stupid fucking zoom call, 122 00:06:45,520 --> 00:06:51,080 Speaker 1: I can feel your energy, And I wonder the cumulation 123 00:06:51,240 --> 00:06:53,640 Speaker 1: of all of the energy that that building has seen 124 00:06:53,839 --> 00:06:58,840 Speaker 1: just must be insane. But to me, like speaking to that, um. 125 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,599 Speaker 1: Places so times can have an energy that like supersedes 126 00:07:02,760 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 1: people's energy. Like I don't think that the rave and 127 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 1: the building across the street and the history of and 128 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: the feeling that you have when you're there has to 129 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 1: do with any one person. It's something about the place, 130 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:18,480 Speaker 1: like totally. And I feel like that repeats with with 131 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:21,360 Speaker 1: certain venues and and like the history of buildings and 132 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: everything where You'll be like, what was it about this 133 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:27,320 Speaker 1: place that has you know, has made the significant events 134 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 1: continue to happen here to continue to draw people here? Um? 135 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,160 Speaker 1: You know, was it like a happening or what is it? Um? 136 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:37,119 Speaker 1: And I'm fascinated by things like that. You know me too, 137 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:39,840 Speaker 1: Like to me, I'm like, is it a vortex? There's 138 00:07:40,200 --> 00:07:43,600 Speaker 1: so many different places that just have such strange occurrences 139 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: happening all the time, and I don't understand. I'm opening 140 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:49,840 Speaker 1: my mind up to all this multidimensional thought and just 141 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,840 Speaker 1: trying to understand all the things that people think there 142 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 1: might be. But maybe this is it. And so that's 143 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:58,640 Speaker 1: kind of why I started this podcast, is to bullshit 144 00:07:58,760 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 1: with people who I respect and who have imaginative or 145 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: different perspectives on what life is. And I know we 146 00:08:06,680 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 1: were texting about kind of just be like nihilists dressed 147 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:13,560 Speaker 1: up in rainbows, like a nihilist dressed up in rainbows, 148 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,720 Speaker 1: but dressed in all black, actually rainbows and the inside 149 00:08:16,840 --> 00:08:19,520 Speaker 1: for you. And so today I'm actually dressed in all 150 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 1: lack too. I don't know, I didn't even mean to, 151 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:30,320 Speaker 1: But is this all there is? Versus reincarnation, versus the afterlife, 152 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: or versus heaven or hell. I'm just curious if you 153 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: want to talk about it, your spirituality and your belief 154 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:43,520 Speaker 1: in the supernatural. Sure, I'm happy to talk about those things. Yeah, 155 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,880 Speaker 1: would you describe yourself as spiritual or religious person? Um? 156 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: I have a lot of conflict around it. Where I was, 157 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:55,080 Speaker 1: you know, brought up in a Catholic family on both sides, 158 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:58,199 Speaker 1: Roman Catholic and Irish Catholic and uh, but at the 159 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:01,000 Speaker 1: same time, like by parents who didn't really necessarily have 160 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: a strict adherence to going to the church. We we 161 00:09:03,559 --> 00:09:06,079 Speaker 1: traveled a lot of as a military brat. Um, so 162 00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:10,240 Speaker 1: like we go sporadically. But nonetheless I got that healthy 163 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 1: dose of Catholic guilt, right, so I have that too. 164 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:18,800 Speaker 1: We share that affliction. So over time you know, you 165 00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,520 Speaker 1: become an adult, and I I like to consider myself 166 00:09:22,559 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: an atheist, but at the same time, I carry that 167 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 1: Catholic guilt, and I carry a sense of curiosity, and 168 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,959 Speaker 1: I don't pretend to know everything you know, And I 169 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:36,719 Speaker 1: like reading about the fantastical. I like understanding things or 170 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 1: trying to understand things that are like out of the 171 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 1: ordinary um, and I like thinking that there's mystery in 172 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 1: the world, still our mystery in the universe. So I 173 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,560 Speaker 1: don't know, you know, like I'm I'll believe things you know, 174 00:09:49,679 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: and I'll go down pass um. Well, I completely feel 175 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 1: you on There are days I wake up where I'm 176 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: just like, this is it, And that's when I'm kind 177 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,600 Speaker 1: of like a little more or in my one would 178 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: call it depressing, but it might just be being realistic. 179 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:07,640 Speaker 1: And then there are other days they wake up and 180 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:10,839 Speaker 1: just feel like there's rainbows shooting out of my ass 181 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:14,560 Speaker 1: and I just can't even believe. When I woke up 182 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:17,960 Speaker 1: to the news that Trump did not win this election, 183 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,600 Speaker 1: there was a rainbow in the sky and I was like, 184 00:10:20,880 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 1: it's just too good. Like I read that you believe 185 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,160 Speaker 1: he's the Antichrist, And that has been the running conversation 186 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: and our household for the past, while like, genuinely, honestly, 187 00:10:35,640 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: there are some things that line up biblically that are weird, 188 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:39,600 Speaker 1: but let me let me talk to that for a 189 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: second or a second because it was funny, I did 190 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:44,160 Speaker 1: like a Rolling Stone interview, and I leaned a little 191 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:46,240 Speaker 1: too hard into that whole, like Trump is the anti 192 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:48,360 Speaker 1: Christ thing, and afterwards I was like, jeez, I need 193 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: to like back off that a little bit, but like 194 00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:54,920 Speaker 1: I meant it, you know, specifically coming from an atheist 195 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 1: viewpoint and specifically talking about arc types where if you 196 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: look at religion, you know, in the history of religions, 197 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,319 Speaker 1: there are these major archetypes that repeat throughout religions, right, 198 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: so like not Christ as like you know, our Lord 199 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,160 Speaker 1: and Savior, but Christ archetype you I believe in, you know, 200 00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 1: like Christ is an archetype. And so if Christ as 201 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: an archetype is real, like the anti Christ as an 202 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 1: archetype is also real. And if you're talking about what 203 00:11:25,040 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 1: Christ actually was and not you know what the majority 204 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,120 Speaker 1: of Christians will talk about what Christianity is then or 205 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:33,439 Speaker 1: anything like that. But if you really examine who Christ 206 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: was and if you really examine who Donald Trump is. 207 00:11:36,160 --> 00:11:40,000 Speaker 1: Donald Trump, you have to is like the opposite of Christ. 208 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,800 Speaker 1: So the anti Christ as an archetype, not as some 209 00:11:43,880 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: kind of you know, uh Arnold Schwarzenegger movie End of 210 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:51,280 Speaker 1: Days type anti Christ. But you know that's good clarification. 211 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,400 Speaker 1: But I think you might actually be the anti Christ. 212 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: But you were saying, like, you love the magic of 213 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:00,480 Speaker 1: the universe, and sometimes you get caught up in believing 214 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,440 Speaker 1: different things. But you think probably at heart you think 215 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,160 Speaker 1: you're an atheist or you're just open. I don't know. 216 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: I I guess I don't know how am I defining that? Like, 217 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: I do not believe that Jesus Christ is our Lord 218 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: and savior, right, not a Christian. I don't believe that 219 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: I know any of the answers. I don't believe that 220 00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: any of the books out there that you could read 221 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:22,720 Speaker 1: holds the entire truth. I believe there's truths in them, 222 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,199 Speaker 1: and that there's worthwhile things to learn through some religions. 223 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 1: But I also believe that religion is like the source 224 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,080 Speaker 1: of you know, how much pain and suffering in the 225 00:12:32,160 --> 00:12:36,079 Speaker 1: history of the world. Um, So I I have a 226 00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:39,360 Speaker 1: fear of any organized group. I have a fear of 227 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: like um clubs, gangs, anything like that, which the church 228 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,040 Speaker 1: is usually a part of. But do I believe in 229 00:12:46,080 --> 00:12:48,520 Speaker 1: the mystical, Yes? Do I believe in the fantastic? Yes? 230 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:51,120 Speaker 1: Do I believe in magic A d percent you know, like, 231 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: and I believe um that. I just don't know it 232 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,839 Speaker 1: all and I'm still learning. That's beautiful to be able 233 00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: to sit in the feeling of not knowing. I find 234 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 1: that a very uncomfortable feeling, like I just like need 235 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: to know things. And immortality versus mortality, and the point 236 00:13:09,640 --> 00:13:14,040 Speaker 1: of life, the afterlife, extraterrestrial life, things like that just 237 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,439 Speaker 1: fascinate me. Which is why it brought me to having 238 00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: a podcast about it, is because I wanted to talk 239 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: to people about their views of it, and I found 240 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: myself walking away every time loving a new perspective I've 241 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:31,120 Speaker 1: gotten and also completely questioning what my perspective was an 242 00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:34,800 Speaker 1: hour and a half earlier. So I'm trying to get 243 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 1: comfortable in the place of being like, I just don't know. 244 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: I'm open, I'm open for business, I'm open for thought, 245 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:43,600 Speaker 1: but I just don't know, and I don't know if 246 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:46,839 Speaker 1: I ever will. So talking about venues, have you ever 247 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,880 Speaker 1: been to the Town Ballroom in Buffalo, New York. I 248 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 1: don't know if I have. So the Town Ballroom has 249 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:55,880 Speaker 1: been there for like again a hundred years. Um. Back 250 00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:58,839 Speaker 1: in the day, it's where like Frank Sinatra, Sammy Davis Jr. 251 00:13:58,960 --> 00:14:01,600 Speaker 1: People like that used to play a and um it 252 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: was a speakeasy. And in the basement of it, there's 253 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 1: all these tunnels that used to connect to buildings across 254 00:14:06,440 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: the street or whatever running through underneath Buffalo and you 255 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: can still play there. It's an awesome place and you 256 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:17,840 Speaker 1: can go down into those tunnels and there are legitimately haunted. 257 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:21,160 Speaker 1: So the first time we went down there, like someone 258 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:23,800 Speaker 1: from the venue took us down and it's showing us 259 00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: around and there's like all these rooms and then there's 260 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,080 Speaker 1: this long tunnel and there's like a big safe right 261 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: next to the entrance of the tunnel and they're like, hey, 262 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 1: before you go in, you know, like set a dollar 263 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,280 Speaker 1: in there or whatever. And you're like, okay, you know 264 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,040 Speaker 1: you're playing along, set a dollar in there. And you 265 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:38,640 Speaker 1: go to the end of this tunnel where there's like 266 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: rooms that shoot off from it, and it's pitch black, 267 00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:43,800 Speaker 1: just like so scary, and you get the end of it, 268 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: and there's an old bathroom and it's all busted up, 269 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:49,120 Speaker 1: like the urinals are all smashed to bits, the toilet's 270 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: all smashed. So that first time we went down there, 271 00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:54,640 Speaker 1: we went into the back like we smoked a joint whatever, 272 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:56,880 Speaker 1: and then Um, you know, played the show. Sounds like 273 00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: the worst place to smoke a joint ever. Oh, it's 274 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:01,920 Speaker 1: so creepy, and we were like daring each other, like, hey, 275 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,920 Speaker 1: someone stayed down here alone, you know, see if you 276 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:06,560 Speaker 1: feel the ghost or whatever. Um, And it was scary, 277 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,680 Speaker 1: legitimately scary, but nothing happened. So the next time we 278 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: went back, Um, the band we were on tour with, 279 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:14,200 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, yeah, I'll show you. I'll show 280 00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: you down there. I'll be the tour guide this time. 281 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:18,280 Speaker 1: You know, I got the spiel. Last time I went 282 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: down there, was showing them around, took to them to 283 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,960 Speaker 1: the end to the bathroom, like all the way at 284 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: the end of this hallway. And as we're coming back, 285 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:28,040 Speaker 1: I turned around and I saw a little boy just 286 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,880 Speaker 1: run in front of me, like the midst of a 287 00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 1: little boy, the shape and form of a little boy. 288 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: And I turned just stone cold. All the hairs on 289 00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,720 Speaker 1: my neck stood up, and I got the hell out 290 00:15:41,720 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 1: of the basement as quick as my god, so that 291 00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,600 Speaker 1: you like saw not an actual little boy, but a 292 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: little boy ghost a little boy. It was the ghost 293 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,280 Speaker 1: of a boy. It was ad like, I know what 294 00:15:52,400 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: I saw, and that that was the first time i've 295 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,800 Speaker 1: I think I've legitimately seen a ghost. But that was 296 00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,680 Speaker 1: a moment where I'm like, I have no idea how 297 00:15:59,680 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: to explain it. I know the majority of like the 298 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:04,920 Speaker 1: people in my band or like my friends hate hearing 299 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,080 Speaker 1: me tell that story because they think I'm totally full 300 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,040 Speaker 1: of it. But at the same time, I know what 301 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: I saw, and you know what you saw, and you know, 302 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: like afterwards, after everyone else had gotten no one else 303 00:16:15,440 --> 00:16:16,840 Speaker 1: saw it when we were down there, but after we 304 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:18,480 Speaker 1: had all gotten out of the basement, like, I went 305 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:20,880 Speaker 1: back down there and I sat at the like the 306 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:23,440 Speaker 1: mouth of the or the opening of the tunnel, and 307 00:16:23,480 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 1: I sat there and I was like, I just want 308 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: to be friends with whatever you are. And I had 309 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,720 Speaker 1: like some playing cards that I had found a couple 310 00:16:30,720 --> 00:16:32,400 Speaker 1: of weeks earlier that I was holding on too, and 311 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: I was like, I want to leave these here for you, 312 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:35,840 Speaker 1: And I was like trying to talk to appease the 313 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,880 Speaker 1: ghost or whatever communicate in some way. I got this 314 00:16:38,960 --> 00:16:43,000 Speaker 1: overall feeling of like leave, leave, now, get out of here. 315 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,280 Speaker 1: So I did. I just got out of there. I left. 316 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:48,000 Speaker 1: I probably would do. Damn, what do I mean, little kid? 317 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:53,120 Speaker 1: You brought him? As? I feel like there was more there, 318 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:56,200 Speaker 1: you know. So that's an example of where I'm coming from, 319 00:16:56,240 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: you know, of like how how I view things. I 320 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,200 Speaker 1: can't explaining that, Like I don't know if I can 321 00:17:02,280 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: explain that as like that that was a ghost with 322 00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:06,800 Speaker 1: consciousness or that was more of like an echo of 323 00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:09,439 Speaker 1: a memory. But it felt like there was an energy 324 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: there and it felt like that energy was communicating in 325 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,800 Speaker 1: some way or like aware or could be you know, 326 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: felt or or change was still in flux. And I 327 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:21,359 Speaker 1: feel like I've had a lot of experiences like that 328 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:25,280 Speaker 1: at venues to varying degrees and and just like in 329 00:17:25,320 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: life too. So the swimming Pool song is off of 330 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,879 Speaker 1: Stay Alive. Everybody go check it out. This came out 331 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: at the beginning of Quarantine. It came out on October one, 332 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 1: actually released the digital first, and then like the vinyl 333 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,000 Speaker 1: and c D and we did a cassette actually too, 334 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,600 Speaker 1: for it. Um uh, that comes out like in a 335 00:17:43,640 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 1: week or two, so it's already out, just like on 336 00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: streaming and everything. I figured there was like no reason 337 00:17:48,520 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: to wait, um you know right now, like the usual 338 00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:55,840 Speaker 1: like lead up and build up to releasing an album, 339 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:59,520 Speaker 1: the traditional way of like releasing singles and then announcing 340 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 1: tours and stuff like that. There's no tours to announce. 341 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:03,679 Speaker 1: Why not just think outside of the box and go 342 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 1: ahead and get it out there. Yeah, And I wonder 343 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,040 Speaker 1: if it will ever go back to what it was, 344 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: because I think I held that hope for a while 345 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:16,200 Speaker 1: that oh, this will like pass and maybe things will 346 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:19,320 Speaker 1: go back to normal. But I'm starting to realize that 347 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,280 Speaker 1: this might just be a part of a new normal 348 00:18:22,359 --> 00:18:25,640 Speaker 1: that we're going to have to build upon. So if 349 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,119 Speaker 1: that's the case, then I think I have to I 350 00:18:28,400 --> 00:18:31,280 Speaker 1: really don't get along with technology, and I really have 351 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,680 Speaker 1: had a lot of pain from it. Whenever I go 352 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: onto anything where people can communicate behind the mask of 353 00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:44,280 Speaker 1: a fake name and don't have to be responsible for 354 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:47,240 Speaker 1: what they're saying, I find it has been a really 355 00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: painful relationship. It's like abusive. So I'm trying to mend 356 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:55,040 Speaker 1: that relationship, right now it's wild because like you know, 357 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:57,960 Speaker 1: on the one time, one hand, like sometimes I'll take 358 00:18:57,960 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 1: a cynical view of social media and off like that 359 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: where I'm like, this is also shallow, nothing of its real. Um, 360 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:07,959 Speaker 1: you know, it's also fake, etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. UM. And 361 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: then other times I'll have happenings from it that have 362 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:15,119 Speaker 1: such very real effects in the world or in my life, 363 00:19:15,240 --> 00:19:18,120 Speaker 1: you know, like run ins or connections, um, that I'll 364 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 1: be like, well, this is undeniably real. This actually you know, 365 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: it's completely Um, it has effect, it's there's nothing fake 366 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: about it, you know. Um. But people are generally terrible online. 367 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:37,760 Speaker 1: I think that's the worst part, is just like the 368 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,800 Speaker 1: non responsibility for what you say and hurting people. But 369 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:45,240 Speaker 1: I think that as a public figure, as you would 370 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:49,560 Speaker 1: probably know, people feel really comfortable saying it when they're 371 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:54,320 Speaker 1: not in the same room with you, room with somebody. Sure, 372 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:58,360 Speaker 1: totally transgender people in general, you know, like people are beautiful, 373 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 1: brutal like towards trench gender people online and it's oftentimes 374 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,240 Speaker 1: you know, like I don't know, people take an attitude 375 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:05,919 Speaker 1: that they wouldn't take in real life. You know, on 376 00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 1: the street there's a dis human connection where you start 377 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:14,119 Speaker 1: to feel like a thing, a product, or a reflection 378 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:17,280 Speaker 1: of what they're not accomplishing or what they can't face 379 00:20:17,280 --> 00:20:21,479 Speaker 1: in themselves. In my opinion, just hate has it feels 380 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:25,000 Speaker 1: like it's this great American pastime now, like hating on 381 00:20:25,040 --> 00:20:27,360 Speaker 1: the internet is like a new hobby for a lot 382 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:32,720 Speaker 1: of people, and it's not really a creepy subject matter, 383 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,920 Speaker 1: But in my mind it is a little creepy because 384 00:20:34,960 --> 00:20:37,639 Speaker 1: it's like its own dimension. Well, I can relate to that, 385 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: you know. I'll tell you A couple of weeks ago, Um, 386 00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,520 Speaker 1: I saw like one of those clickbait articles that was 387 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: like the CIA to classify as articles saying that they've 388 00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,000 Speaker 1: confirmed we're living in an energy hologram and that manifestation 389 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: is real. And I was like, well, you know, I 390 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,959 Speaker 1: mean that you've clicked on that too. I was like, 391 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,000 Speaker 1: would I want to yea search it? I mean, I 392 00:20:59,119 --> 00:21:01,840 Speaker 1: was like, I would probably download these files if the 393 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:04,840 Speaker 1: CIA d classified them and they were classified for any reason, 394 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 1: like that sounds really important. I need to have a 395 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,600 Speaker 1: physical copy of this before they change something. So I 396 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,560 Speaker 1: printed them out and I have them them both on 397 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: my desk in the other room, and you know, like 398 00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,119 Speaker 1: reading about that where it's like it seems so fantastical, 399 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,360 Speaker 1: where like the CIA is telling you, like, yes, manifation, 400 00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: manifestation is real. We're living in an all energy hologram. 401 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,040 Speaker 1: And then if you think about that, like it compares 402 00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:30,720 Speaker 1: in to the ramifications of like social media and like 403 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:33,080 Speaker 1: what it means to have a bunch of people just 404 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,600 Speaker 1: viewing hate NonStop or or negative energy. Um, if we're 405 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:41,359 Speaker 1: indeed living in all energy holograms, wild, you know, yeah, 406 00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,640 Speaker 1: maybe I need to find other places that are more 407 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:48,960 Speaker 1: positive energy than necessarily the hateful energy. But sometimes you 408 00:21:49,040 --> 00:21:51,960 Speaker 1: just accidentally, at least for myself, I'll be like looking 409 00:21:52,040 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 1: up a show and I'll just see something about myself 410 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 1: that I have no interest in reading or seeing, and 411 00:21:59,080 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 1: all of a sudden, I'm like dragged into this weird 412 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:04,280 Speaker 1: dark place again. But I do kind of feel like 413 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,200 Speaker 1: we are living in a hologram. Do you remember did 414 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: you ever watch him in the Holograms? Yeah? And actually 415 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,720 Speaker 1: that that reboot remake movie or whatever that Juliet looked 416 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: it was really good. I really it was in the ending. 417 00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:20,440 Speaker 1: I was in the very ending, like after the credits. 418 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,520 Speaker 1: That was the first time I've ever been in, like 419 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: a movie of any sort. That's not true. I'm gonna 420 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: tell you something that I've never told anyone. Oh no, 421 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:33,720 Speaker 1: this is really embarrassing. I'm about to tell you some 422 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: ship that I've never told the world. When I was 423 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:40,320 Speaker 1: like seven years old, my mom decided it would be 424 00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: a really good idea. What okay he he's saying. I 425 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: was like three, I was somewhere in between three and stuff, 426 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: and I'm really bad at the time. Okay, so I'm 427 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,679 Speaker 1: like somewhere as a young person. I don't recall it. 428 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,119 Speaker 1: There's no memory of this, but my mom decided that 429 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,280 Speaker 1: it would be a really good idea for me to 430 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:06,000 Speaker 1: pretend fart in a movie called Fart, the movie that 431 00:23:06,359 --> 00:23:09,440 Speaker 1: you can only find where can you even find it? 432 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:14,119 Speaker 1: It's like, it's the worst thing you've ever seen in 433 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,600 Speaker 1: your life. I don't recommend anyone looking it up. I 434 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 1: don't recommend anyone looking ever watching it. It's the worst. 435 00:23:20,640 --> 00:23:23,359 Speaker 1: It's just like a two hour long fart joke movie. 436 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:26,320 Speaker 1: But my mom got she was in a band like 437 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 1: late eighties, and they were like, we'll pay you a 438 00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,119 Speaker 1: couple hundred dollars if you write a theme song for 439 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:37,840 Speaker 1: a movie that is entirely about farts. So she decided 440 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,880 Speaker 1: to offer me up to be an extra in Fart 441 00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,480 Speaker 1: the movie. So that was the first time I was 442 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,320 Speaker 1: in a movie. Now, the second time I was in 443 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,639 Speaker 1: a feature film would be at the very end of 444 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:55,520 Speaker 1: Gem in the Hollogrounds and I had like neon green hair. 445 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,879 Speaker 1: That's all I remember, I said, like one line. But 446 00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:02,359 Speaker 1: I remember loving the cartoon when I was little. Yeah, 447 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,760 Speaker 1: I want to ask you about, like The Misfits, The Damned, 448 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:11,160 Speaker 1: horror and death often seem to go hand in hand 449 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: with punk rock and being like a huge part of 450 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:19,960 Speaker 1: punk rock and amazing front woman. How does horror and 451 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:22,680 Speaker 1: punk rock go so well together? Well, I think it 452 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,879 Speaker 1: seems like it's a natural extension of dressing up, you know, 453 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: like of like, I don't know, making yourself stand out, 454 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: like I think I'm thinking specifically of like The Damned 455 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:35,399 Speaker 1: and like the look Dave Vaney and had, which was 456 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:40,439 Speaker 1: totally like some strange vampire you know. But but um, 457 00:24:41,119 --> 00:24:44,280 Speaker 1: like The Damned. For me, the best show I've ever 458 00:24:44,359 --> 00:24:48,240 Speaker 1: seen was The Damned in at a place called the 459 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,639 Speaker 1: State Theater in St. Pete, Florida, and they were incredible. 460 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,440 Speaker 1: Captain Sensible out there with a broken leg foot and 461 00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:57,520 Speaker 1: a leg in a cast, wearing a dress, playing guitar 462 00:24:57,560 --> 00:24:59,480 Speaker 1: with a beer can for most of the show. Dave 463 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 1: Vanny and like look like nineties Arabano with like huge 464 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 1: sunglasses and like a shark sins suit, just like throwing 465 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,879 Speaker 1: the microphone back and forth. Um but I don't know, 466 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,439 Speaker 1: you know, the like the the sub genres connect, like 467 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,320 Speaker 1: the goths scene and the punk scene, and it's like 468 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: they're not far away from each other. It's just like 469 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,199 Speaker 1: one degree here, one degree there or whatever. You know, 470 00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 1: the love of the color black is shared by goths 471 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: and anarchists alike. Um but, uh but I don't, I 472 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,399 Speaker 1: don't know, you know, like I was definitely more into 473 00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,480 Speaker 1: the Damned than I was ever into the Misfits. Um 474 00:25:34,520 --> 00:25:37,480 Speaker 1: but I came around on the Misfits. But you know, 475 00:25:37,520 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 1: the Misfits have a strange separation where like, you know, 476 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:44,200 Speaker 1: there's the visual to the Misfits, but you don't even 477 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: need the visual, like regardless, they just have great songs, 478 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:50,320 Speaker 1: the really great songs. And Danzig is one of a kind. 479 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:52,840 Speaker 1: You know. I only go so deep when it comes 480 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:55,360 Speaker 1: to like vibing on horror movies and stuff like that. 481 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,679 Speaker 1: I'm not like really knowledgeable about it, you know. I 482 00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: can't like go that in depth on it. Like I 483 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 1: have my favorites and I enjoy it, but I don't know. 484 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:04,840 Speaker 1: It's never been a d percent my thing. I don't 485 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:07,720 Speaker 1: have like a super crazy DVD collection or something like that. 486 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: You know. Oh really, I thought maybe you would like 487 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: know about all the creepiest Crawleys kind of movies. But 488 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:15,960 Speaker 1: I see, for me, I'm a basic bitch that The 489 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 1: Shining is still my favorite scary movie of all time 490 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,960 Speaker 1: because it's just it feels like the inside of my brain, 491 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,400 Speaker 1: The Shining is fantastic. I went, I stayed a couple 492 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: of years back. I went and stayed at the Stanley Hotel, 493 00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,840 Speaker 1: which is the hotel that Stephen King stayed at while 494 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: they were writing The Shining. Is that the one they 495 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: based it on? Yeah, well it's the one where there's 496 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:42,600 Speaker 1: a made for TV remake they did of The Shining. 497 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:46,320 Speaker 1: Um maybe in the early two thousand's. Um that does 498 00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: not start Jack Nicholson or whatever, but that was shot 499 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,600 Speaker 1: at the Stanley. The Stanley is a hotel in Sties Park, Colorado, 500 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:55,879 Speaker 1: and that's where Stephen King stayed while writing it, and 501 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:57,720 Speaker 1: that's where they shot the remake, but it's not where 502 00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 1: they shot the the the actual Shining movie. Okay, So 503 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: my mom when I was little, aside from putting me 504 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:07,199 Speaker 1: in movies about farts, she also took me to the 505 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: hotel that The Shining is based on the overlook, Right, 506 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:14,760 Speaker 1: that's sort of overlook, but not the actual, not that 507 00:27:14,840 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 1: one they shot it at. So we may have stayed 508 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:19,040 Speaker 1: in the same place. Is that the same place? It's 509 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:21,680 Speaker 1: where Stephen King stayed and he stayed in that room 510 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,080 Speaker 1: or whatever, room two thirteen or I forget what the 511 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,040 Speaker 1: room to thirty nine, I don't know seven trying to 512 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 1: remember all the rooms because I remember at the at 513 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 1: the hotel across from the Rave where Jeffrey Dahmer murdered 514 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:40,800 Speaker 1: believe his second victim. What you've showing me something? Okay? Um, 515 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,640 Speaker 1: that room was five oh seven, lots of weird ship 516 00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: with the sevens. I don't know. I thought six was 517 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,280 Speaker 1: the devil number of that. See, Like you know, I 518 00:27:51,320 --> 00:27:54,000 Speaker 1: pay attention to that stuff like that. I'll get into 519 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:57,720 Speaker 1: astrology and things like that to a reasonable extent. But 520 00:27:57,720 --> 00:28:01,120 Speaker 1: but I find that, like I work much better, like 521 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 1: in feeling connected and in any kind of psychic way. 522 00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,800 Speaker 1: If I'm not paying attention and if I'm not trying 523 00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,520 Speaker 1: to look for signs or look for patterns or whatever whatever, 524 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:13,120 Speaker 1: if I can just fall into the flow, I usually 525 00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:17,040 Speaker 1: feel like I'll have more more occurrences like that happen. 526 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:20,880 Speaker 1: You know. Did you stop smoking weed during like this year? 527 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 1: I did in April? Yeah, on four twenty, I had 528 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:29,000 Speaker 1: like made thee I had made the resolution or whatever. 529 00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 1: On New Year's Eve, we played in Denver, and on stage, 530 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,880 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm gonna quit smoking weed until Donald 531 00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: Trump is out of office. Um, wait are you? Are 532 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:39,760 Speaker 1: you back in there? And that's in the game right 533 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: now again, we're waiting until he actually leaves you. Um. 534 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,440 Speaker 1: So it took me a second because then like the 535 00:28:47,440 --> 00:28:49,520 Speaker 1: reality of that was that after the show, I woke 536 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:51,680 Speaker 1: up and I was still invent Denver, and I was like, well, 537 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna smoke all this weed I still have. But 538 00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,040 Speaker 1: I did then stick to it on on April and 539 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,520 Speaker 1: I quit. Um. But in general, I just like, I 540 00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:02,320 Speaker 1: don't know, you know, I'm trying to tap into everything 541 00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 1: that's happening right now as a chance for change, Like 542 00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: if what we're talking about as a society and what 543 00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:10,040 Speaker 1: you're hearing repeated in the news all the time is 544 00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:12,520 Speaker 1: how much we need to change, how much change there 545 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,840 Speaker 1: needs to be or whatever. And you know, given the 546 00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:19,440 Speaker 1: circumstances were in facing a global pandemic, um, facing all 547 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: this uncertainty, if that isn't like a time to actually 548 00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:25,680 Speaker 1: change and to make some kind of like have some 549 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: kind of personal accountability moment. I don't really know when is. 550 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: And you know, for me, like I've been in a 551 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,040 Speaker 1: cycle for the past twenty years of like you go 552 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,000 Speaker 1: on tour, you come back, you have a little bit 553 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: of time to digest, you go on tour again, or 554 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 1: it's time to make a record again, or you know 555 00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:42,959 Speaker 1: you're moving, moving, moving, a little time for reflection And 556 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 1: right now is the first time in like twenty years 557 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,080 Speaker 1: that I've had any kind of time for reflection like that. 558 00:29:48,320 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: Um to really like decompress and just take it all 559 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:53,680 Speaker 1: in and reset and try to figure out where we're 560 00:29:53,680 --> 00:29:56,280 Speaker 1: all going or what what the plan is? You know. 561 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: UM you said like you have trouble when you know 562 00:29:59,280 --> 00:30:03,520 Speaker 1: you can't control things or or whatever. UM, And uh, 563 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: I feel similarly like being in this void right now 564 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: where so much is uncertain that uh, you know, trying 565 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:12,760 Speaker 1: to then at least grasp yourself and and find what 566 00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: is within your control has been calming to me. The 567 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: same your journey of coming out as transgender, being a 568 00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:25,520 Speaker 1: rock band, being a front woman, and putting out Transgender 569 00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,120 Speaker 1: Dysmorphia Blues. I mean, was that an easy thing for 570 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,800 Speaker 1: you to feel like a weight lifted off of your shoulders? 571 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: Or was it terrifying? Was it both? Yeah? It was 572 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,160 Speaker 1: it was terrifying. Um, I guess, like for the backstory 573 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,640 Speaker 1: for anybody watching or listening to this who don't know me. Um, 574 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,840 Speaker 1: I came out as transgender in like two thousand and twelve, 575 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,160 Speaker 1: and I've I've played in a band caught against me 576 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,560 Speaker 1: since I was seventeen years old. Um, I'm forty now, 577 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,120 Speaker 1: and so I came out when I was like thirty two. 578 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,080 Speaker 1: I had already been you know, I was already signed 579 00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:59,040 Speaker 1: to a major label. I was already like an established 580 00:30:59,160 --> 00:31:00,880 Speaker 1: musician or whatever. So I came out very much in 581 00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: the in the spotlight. And Um, shortly after coming out, 582 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,000 Speaker 1: like two years after, released a record called Transgender Dysphor 583 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,160 Speaker 1: Your Blues, and then uh, from there, you know, spent 584 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,400 Speaker 1: the last like six years touring around the world and 585 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,600 Speaker 1: and UM also released a memoir in there, and UM 586 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:19,960 Speaker 1: have continued making records and everything, but but coming out 587 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: publicly was was terrifying in a lot of ways, and 588 00:31:23,640 --> 00:31:25,800 Speaker 1: coming out with a record around it. I don't know, 589 00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:28,440 Speaker 1: it's you know, I'm I'm the type of person who, 590 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:32,080 Speaker 1: UM I've realized like, uh, I'm very accustomed to stress, 591 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: and I kind of create a lot of my own stress. UM. 592 00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: So you know, coming out was one pressure in and 593 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:42,320 Speaker 1: of itself, right, but then releasing a record after that, 594 00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: you know, and having that much attention on you or whatever. Um, 595 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,240 Speaker 1: you know, like I asked of that, Like I did 596 00:31:47,240 --> 00:31:50,000 Speaker 1: that myself, putting out a record. UM. So I'm not 597 00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:53,240 Speaker 1: trying to complain about anything or whatever. Overall, people have 598 00:31:53,320 --> 00:31:56,280 Speaker 1: been really accepting of me and been really really supportive 599 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,280 Speaker 1: and understanding, and it feels really gratifying to feel like 600 00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,719 Speaker 1: I've reached a lot of people with my story and 601 00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: maybe like open their eyes up to UM the transgender experience, 602 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,920 Speaker 1: because I do like the transgender experience. Like it's a record, UM, 603 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: maybe a box set, but I do think that things 604 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:15,040 Speaker 1: are still important to talk about, you know, very much though, 605 00:32:15,040 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: and obviously, like if you look at the election results 606 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: with the country as divided as it is, you know, 607 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,320 Speaker 1: I think sometimes we lose sight of the fact that 608 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:27,240 Speaker 1: while internally culturally, uh, most pop culture is very left 609 00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:30,160 Speaker 1: leaning and um, transgender people have become a part of 610 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:33,280 Speaker 1: the conversation. But like in a very real world way 611 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:35,560 Speaker 1: when it comes to being a transgender person walking down 612 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:39,000 Speaker 1: the street, like pop culture doesn't doesn't really like save 613 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:40,840 Speaker 1: you if you're in a hard spot, you know, or 614 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:43,040 Speaker 1: help you out in those ways. Um, So there is 615 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:46,040 Speaker 1: a chasm, a divide between like, you know, what we 616 00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 1: perceive in the media and what is actually happening out 617 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:52,720 Speaker 1: in the world and educating people talking about it, normalizing, 618 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,000 Speaker 1: you know, bringing humanity to something that maybe taboo or 619 00:32:57,040 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: may have been like uh, you know, something that before 620 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:02,240 Speaker 1: couldn't be talked about, is so important and continues to 621 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,920 Speaker 1: be really like when it comes to normalizing transgender people 622 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 1: or whatever, like it's just only begun, you know, and 623 00:33:08,680 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: there's so much more work to do. So I'm always 624 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:14,000 Speaker 1: happy to talk about like my experiences. I never pretend 625 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:15,920 Speaker 1: to have any of the answers or anything like that 626 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,360 Speaker 1: I can only really speak to what my truth has 627 00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: been where I've been, you know, what I've experienced. But 628 00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,360 Speaker 1: I'm always happy to you know. Yeah, I just thank 629 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,080 Speaker 1: you for sharing. And I was gonna say, though, Kesha, 630 00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,160 Speaker 1: I was going to say though, like in regards to 631 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:32,120 Speaker 1: like quarantine stuff, you know, and and anxieties including smoking 632 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,080 Speaker 1: weed and everything like that, you know, that feeling of 633 00:33:35,120 --> 00:33:38,840 Speaker 1: like being in like I I felt guilt because after 634 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: everything went down, I actually found myself very like grounded 635 00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:43,800 Speaker 1: feeling and actually felt kind of better than I had 636 00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,239 Speaker 1: felt in years where I'm so used to operating in 637 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,600 Speaker 1: like high stress situations where I have something terrible kind 638 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: of hanging over my head having grown up, whether that's 639 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:57,080 Speaker 1: with like court charges or like fucking bullshit lawsuits or 640 00:33:57,120 --> 00:34:00,240 Speaker 1: whatever type of ship like that, that perpetual stay of 641 00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,040 Speaker 1: like fight or flight or of being in defense. You know, 642 00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:06,680 Speaker 1: um that Like there was a certain about element of 643 00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:09,360 Speaker 1: when the when the pendemic hit and being quarantined at 644 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,800 Speaker 1: home where I relaxed, where I just felt like, oh 645 00:34:11,880 --> 00:34:15,480 Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, like all there's usual coping mechanisms I have to, 646 00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,160 Speaker 1: like us to to get by to deal with the stress. 647 00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,520 Speaker 1: I can just put aside right now, and I found that, 648 00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,520 Speaker 1: like I found it really calming and kind of like 649 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: the you know, the circumstances of my life for the 650 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,799 Speaker 1: past twenty years actually like benefited in me me in 651 00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: those ways, you know. Really See, there are definitely sides, 652 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,080 Speaker 1: and I have found sides where I'm like, well, I 653 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:40,279 Speaker 1: didn't know I needed to slow down. Like I have 654 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:44,600 Speaker 1: been swimming with my head barely above water since TikTok 655 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,279 Speaker 1: first came out in two thousand eight or two thou nine, 656 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:51,839 Speaker 1: Like it's just been like trying to keep up, like 657 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,040 Speaker 1: the video of the shrimp on the treadmill, Like I'm 658 00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:56,480 Speaker 1: just trying to stay with it, you know what I mean. 659 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:01,360 Speaker 1: And when this happened, it just felt so weird to 660 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,080 Speaker 1: not feel panicked and like because I'm just so used 661 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: to being late for something because I'm late for something 662 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:11,640 Speaker 1: else and I haven't gotten enough sleep and I have 663 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 1: to like eat on the way, and did I say 664 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: something stupid in that interview that's going to affect this 665 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: deal on that? And is your underwear showing? And at 666 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,640 Speaker 1: the same time, like it's just so many things that 667 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,799 Speaker 1: trigger this feeling of like whatever, if it stresses you, 668 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: at it stresses you out, like like for me, this 669 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 1: is this may sounds stupid, but being trans and like 670 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:37,600 Speaker 1: navigating continually the issue of like what fucking bathroom you're 671 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,440 Speaker 1: going to use in a public situation, right to then 672 00:35:40,440 --> 00:35:43,319 Speaker 1: be in a situation where you're like, ha ha, motherfucker's 673 00:35:43,440 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: no one's going to a restaurant. I don't even have 674 00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:50,160 Speaker 1: to learning about that. Well, I am really sorry you 675 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: ever did. I do have to in certain states still 676 00:35:53,120 --> 00:35:57,319 Speaker 1: worry about it. You burnt your birth certificate in wasn't 677 00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,640 Speaker 1: in North Carolina or North Carolina? Yeah, that was like 678 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:04,400 Speaker 1: they had this bill HP to the bathroom bill or whatever. Yeah, 679 00:36:04,760 --> 00:36:08,360 Speaker 1: that's such a bullshit. It is bullshit. That's so punk 680 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,960 Speaker 1: rock and it probably makes your life really hard to 681 00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: get Like cart, I guess you don't need your birth 682 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:15,000 Speaker 1: she said, what do you need your birth certificate for? 683 00:36:15,719 --> 00:36:19,000 Speaker 1: I guess. I mean, I guess that's what people were like. 684 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:20,960 Speaker 1: They were like, oh my god, you brought your birth certificate. 685 00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:22,480 Speaker 1: I was like, yeah, I had to ask my mom 686 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 1: for it. I don't know when the last time i've 687 00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:30,120 Speaker 1: certificate was suck it for my birth certificate too. In 688 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: the name of something noble, get I don't think anybody 689 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,719 Speaker 1: would care for me, but no, I've I read that 690 00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:38,839 Speaker 1: and I was like, God, you're so punk rock, that's 691 00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,960 Speaker 1: so cool. And then I just went down a rabbit 692 00:36:41,040 --> 00:36:43,839 Speaker 1: hole of reading about the origins of punk and what 693 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,960 Speaker 1: it really means and being a punk What does that 694 00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:50,280 Speaker 1: mean to you? To me, it's inseparable from the experiences 695 00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 1: I've had, you know at this point, UM, and the 696 00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,560 Speaker 1: values that I've learned from it, Like the way I 697 00:36:57,640 --> 00:37:01,520 Speaker 1: live my life. Everything has been shaped by that. Whether 698 00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:05,360 Speaker 1: that's like the d I Y mentality of you do 699 00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:07,400 Speaker 1: it yourself, no one else is going to do it 700 00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,680 Speaker 1: for you. If you want to be a musician, if 701 00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:11,640 Speaker 1: you want to be heard, you know it's up to you, 702 00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:14,319 Speaker 1: Like UM, not waiting for someone else to do it, 703 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:17,319 Speaker 1: to treating people with kindness. You don't need to funk 704 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:21,400 Speaker 1: people over to survive, to UM trying to you know, 705 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,680 Speaker 1: think globally at locally. Like all the punk slogans you 706 00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:27,120 Speaker 1: can think of, all the cliches. For me, has had 707 00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:30,279 Speaker 1: like real life meaning and translates to real life experience. 708 00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,080 Speaker 1: And in many ways it's meant you know, to never 709 00:37:33,160 --> 00:37:37,960 Speaker 1: stop questioning, to always ask questions, to always question authority, 710 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 1: to to continue to challenge power structures and status quoes 711 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,239 Speaker 1: and and not just settle for the way something is. 712 00:37:45,920 --> 00:37:50,399 Speaker 1: But I've identified with the movement and the ideology for 713 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:52,839 Speaker 1: such a long time. At this point, like I just 714 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:55,960 Speaker 1: I feel unseparable from it. And I know that's like 715 00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,160 Speaker 1: one of those cliche questions where it's like, well, what 716 00:37:58,200 --> 00:38:00,160 Speaker 1: does punk mean to you? But I want to take 717 00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,480 Speaker 1: it seriously, you know, I want to like acknowledge that 718 00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,799 Speaker 1: like punk has had like just a massive influence on 719 00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:09,800 Speaker 1: my life, and um, and not just speaking about music, 720 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:12,880 Speaker 1: right also the politics. I find the politics to be 721 00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:15,320 Speaker 1: inseparable from the music. If they if if the music 722 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:18,480 Speaker 1: doesn't have politics to it, and if uh, they aren't 723 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:21,680 Speaker 1: fucking good politics, and it's not very fucking punk. But um, 724 00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,880 Speaker 1: it's you know, like the music to me. You know, 725 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:27,759 Speaker 1: you can always get into that argument of what is 726 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,480 Speaker 1: what isn't punk, and I will take a really long 727 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:32,799 Speaker 1: view of it and and think of like all the 728 00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,680 Speaker 1: different sounds that have equated to punk rock from since 729 00:38:36,719 --> 00:38:40,359 Speaker 1: it started. But I really identify with the ideology about it, 730 00:38:40,400 --> 00:38:44,640 Speaker 1: you know, about thinking for yourself, about questioning authority, about 731 00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:48,799 Speaker 1: being an individual, and those lessons have led me to 732 00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:52,000 Speaker 1: meet people, to travel the world to you know, fulfill 733 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:56,000 Speaker 1: all of my wildest desires, and I'm forever thankful for it. 734 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: And I really see it's like greater connection to the 735 00:38:59,239 --> 00:39:01,719 Speaker 1: art art world, you know, to the history of art 736 00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: in fitting in as like an artistic movement similar to 737 00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,719 Speaker 1: data or surrealism or whatever, and it's an extension of 738 00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:14,359 Speaker 1: all that that you can trace back. I feel like 739 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: in my heart that's where I always like, I was 740 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,359 Speaker 1: such a punk little kid, and it was always grandparents 741 00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:23,960 Speaker 1: would say it as it was a negative thing, and 742 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,160 Speaker 1: then it made me want to be like, yeah, punk. 743 00:39:26,840 --> 00:39:30,160 Speaker 1: And I remember there was a show specifically that changed 744 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:33,760 Speaker 1: the course of my history. I was like in high school, 745 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:38,240 Speaker 1: questioning my sexuality. I thought I was maybe a sexual 746 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,319 Speaker 1: Where I went to school, there was a lot of 747 00:39:41,360 --> 00:39:46,520 Speaker 1: like blatant racism happening and Confederate flags flying, and I 748 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:51,239 Speaker 1: was like, okay, wow, I'm just not attracted to any 749 00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 1: of this. And then I made some girlfriends and I 750 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,440 Speaker 1: was like, well, I'm I'm attracted to you. So I 751 00:39:57,560 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: just it was a confusing time for me because us 752 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,360 Speaker 1: trying to figure out the sexuality side of my self. 753 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:07,800 Speaker 1: And then one day I opened a door and there 754 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,080 Speaker 1: was this guy. Sorry, my current boyfriend's in the room, 755 00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:15,040 Speaker 1: but you can just check out, um. But I opened 756 00:40:15,040 --> 00:40:16,880 Speaker 1: the door and there was this guy. It was just 757 00:40:17,000 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: kind of like this soulmate, beautiful, magical. One of those moments. 758 00:40:22,080 --> 00:40:24,839 Speaker 1: He was in a band called Party Cannon and they 759 00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,600 Speaker 1: were a super punk band, and I went to go 760 00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:30,640 Speaker 1: see them, and everyone in the band they were all 761 00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:36,520 Speaker 1: guys wearing dresses, shooting off fireworks, singing about politics, and 762 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,279 Speaker 1: that was like the introduction because of Stephen. I then 763 00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:42,040 Speaker 1: went and he was like, Oh, I'm going to see 764 00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: a movie about the Minute Man, and then I was like, Okay, 765 00:40:44,480 --> 00:40:46,880 Speaker 1: I'm going and so that was my introduction. It was 766 00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:52,319 Speaker 1: my my sexual quest turned into then like finding punk 767 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:56,960 Speaker 1: rock music. And right after they got off stage, playing 768 00:40:57,080 --> 00:41:01,960 Speaker 1: like the nearliest loudest ship, set off fireworks, s and 769 00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,040 Speaker 1: m gear like. It was the craziest thing I've ever 770 00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:06,920 Speaker 1: seen in a barn. I thought the place is going 771 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,000 Speaker 1: to burn down. It was insane. And the second their 772 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:13,240 Speaker 1: music came off, there was a DJ started playing Madonna, 773 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,600 Speaker 1: and all of the same people that were just like 774 00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: living for their music started dancing to Madonna. And it 775 00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,480 Speaker 1: made me feel like punk was a spirit, a spirit 776 00:41:24,560 --> 00:41:28,239 Speaker 1: that and like an energy they just can't be fucked with, 777 00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:30,719 Speaker 1: like something that's inside of you. That's like I can 778 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: relate that to place of origin. If you want to 779 00:41:33,200 --> 00:41:35,759 Speaker 1: go down this ye please please? Um okay. So the 780 00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:39,560 Speaker 1: first ever punk band, the first band referred to as 781 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:42,120 Speaker 1: a punk band ever in the press, was a band 782 00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,000 Speaker 1: called question Mark and the Mysterians who were from Michigan 783 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:52,800 Speaker 1: and Madonna is from Bay City, Michigan. From Michigan, maybe 784 00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:56,359 Speaker 1: there's an energetic vortex in Michigan somewhere, I think. So, 785 00:41:58,360 --> 00:42:01,640 Speaker 1: that's crazy. Did they know each other, Like, is there 786 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:04,319 Speaker 1: any interaction? I don't think so. But they both came 787 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:07,360 Speaker 1: from like well, no, they're they're both from the same 788 00:42:07,440 --> 00:42:09,919 Speaker 1: city or whatever. There's this what's the name of the book. 789 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:11,920 Speaker 1: I think it's called Madonna Land. I'll have to look 790 00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,239 Speaker 1: it up. That talks about Bay City, Michigan and the 791 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:19,319 Speaker 1: music history there and how Madonna is like unloved by 792 00:42:19,360 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 1: the city. She was basically snubbed because of some interview 793 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,720 Speaker 1: that she did um where she said that Base City 794 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:28,120 Speaker 1: was like a stinky town when it is like there's 795 00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,080 Speaker 1: a plant there or something in some kind of mill 796 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,840 Speaker 1: or something like that. But um, you know, like it's Madonna, 797 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,080 Speaker 1: and you think that the city would have like a 798 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:40,080 Speaker 1: sign that says like Madonna, you know, like that's a 799 00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:47,200 Speaker 1: selling point, brings some tourists and they part right right exactly, 800 00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:49,120 Speaker 1: you know, Um, but they will not they will not 801 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,400 Speaker 1: acknowledge Madonna's from there like that there's no sign or 802 00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:54,719 Speaker 1: anything like that. So it's just the whole book talks 803 00:42:54,760 --> 00:42:56,920 Speaker 1: about Madonna, and it talks about question Mark and the 804 00:42:56,960 --> 00:42:59,799 Speaker 1: Mysteriens and how they're from this. You know, nowhere's Villa 805 00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,080 Speaker 1: play is in Michigan and what it's like they're um. 806 00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:06,440 Speaker 1: But so those things are connected, and you know, I 807 00:43:06,480 --> 00:43:08,439 Speaker 1: always saw, like I guess in a lot of ways, 808 00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,400 Speaker 1: Madonna was kind of an early introduction to punk in 809 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:15,279 Speaker 1: ways that I didn't even realize and then translated into 810 00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,279 Speaker 1: my life connections I had where you know, Madonna is 811 00:43:18,320 --> 00:43:22,280 Speaker 1: probably my first musical memory is seeing the Material Girl video, 812 00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:27,280 Speaker 1: so very like you know, early like desperately seeking Susan's style. 813 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:30,760 Speaker 1: Madonna like she had a punk element to her style. 814 00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:35,600 Speaker 1: And Madonna was signed by seymour Stein to Sire Records. 815 00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,160 Speaker 1: Sire Records was the label that signed the Ramons. Seymour 816 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: Stein signed the Ramones. Like all these scenes were connected, 817 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,439 Speaker 1: and um, that's that's I think what you realize after 818 00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:48,680 Speaker 1: you really get into music and you get into punk 819 00:43:48,719 --> 00:43:51,719 Speaker 1: and like, um, I don't know, you realize how connected 820 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,759 Speaker 1: it all is and how like certain fashion trends play 821 00:43:54,760 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: off of each other, you know, and and uh, what 822 00:43:57,480 --> 00:44:01,240 Speaker 1: influences what or whatever? But anyways, I'm on a tangent, 823 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,600 Speaker 1: no please. It's so fascinating because you think of bands 824 00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:08,799 Speaker 1: like Fugazi, where it's everything is kept affordable, and then 825 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:12,520 Speaker 1: there's Vivian Westwood, which is obviously high fashion but definitely 826 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,839 Speaker 1: is the punk aesthetic. Wouldn't you say, well, it's tied 827 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,120 Speaker 1: to it. Yeah, it's the punk aesthetic. It's the classic 828 00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:22,319 Speaker 1: like English punk aesthetic Westwood, right, you know, and all 829 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:24,879 Speaker 1: the sex pistol scene and stuff like that. But I 830 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:27,880 Speaker 1: like that. You know, what keeps punk relevant is the 831 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,799 Speaker 1: continued um reinvention of itself and questioning of itself and 832 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,320 Speaker 1: tearing down of itself. You know, so you had like again, 833 00:44:35,560 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 1: question Mark and the Mysterians were verifiably the first band 834 00:44:38,719 --> 00:44:42,200 Speaker 1: who ever been referred to as a punk band, right, um, 835 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,880 Speaker 1: do are they connected to the sex Pistols other than that? 836 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:48,600 Speaker 1: Not really? Um, the Ramons connection to the punk to 837 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:50,759 Speaker 1: sex Pistols. If you look at the Ramons compared to 838 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:53,719 Speaker 1: the sex Pistols, and even like stylistically, you wouldn't immediately 839 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 1: assume they were connected. So there were differences. It was 840 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,400 Speaker 1: just all influenced and playing off of each other and 841 00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,200 Speaker 1: the sex Sols. You know, they were one of the 842 00:45:01,200 --> 00:45:03,080 Speaker 1: first bands that attracted me to punk rock. But they 843 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,160 Speaker 1: definitely were coming from a more nihilistic, you know, live fast, young, 844 00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,520 Speaker 1: sid vicious type of approach, which spoke to me when 845 00:45:11,560 --> 00:45:13,759 Speaker 1: I was a really young teen and when I lived 846 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:15,879 Speaker 1: in a place that I never thought I would escape from, 847 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:18,400 Speaker 1: and I thought, well, I'll be dead by fucking twenty 848 00:45:18,440 --> 00:45:21,040 Speaker 1: seven if I'm lucky to make it that long. You know, 849 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,839 Speaker 1: because you were in Florida, right, Yeah, South Florida, which 850 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:26,400 Speaker 1: just you know is a cultural void. There was nothing 851 00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:30,800 Speaker 1: happening in South Florida. It was not a youth friendly environment. Um. 852 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,239 Speaker 1: Lots of drugs, lots of violence, lots of like just 853 00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,879 Speaker 1: total class differences and just a messed up, unique place, 854 00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:40,360 Speaker 1: beautiful place, but um, regardless, especially then, it was just 855 00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:44,160 Speaker 1: very culturally isolated, so that, you know, and and getting 856 00:45:44,160 --> 00:45:46,520 Speaker 1: beat up a lot. Like bands that were about violence 857 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:48,719 Speaker 1: and nihilism like that like spoke to me. But I 858 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:51,240 Speaker 1: had like a political awakening when I was like fourteen 859 00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,480 Speaker 1: years old, got beat up by the cops, got arrested, 860 00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:56,200 Speaker 1: charged as an adult, whole ordeal or whatever, and it 861 00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:58,720 Speaker 1: politicized me. And then you get into a different element 862 00:45:58,719 --> 00:46:01,200 Speaker 1: of punk rock, you go down the element the path 863 00:46:01,280 --> 00:46:04,000 Speaker 1: of like the clash or crass and like you get 864 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:07,160 Speaker 1: into the really political stuff. And for me as a 865 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,200 Speaker 1: teen who was definitely closeted but at the same time 866 00:46:10,239 --> 00:46:12,440 Speaker 1: closet in a way where I didn't have words to 867 00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:15,520 Speaker 1: describe myself. I didn't know the word transgender. I couldn't 868 00:46:15,560 --> 00:46:17,840 Speaker 1: tell you that I was transgendered because I just didn't 869 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:20,239 Speaker 1: know it. But still having a knowledge of like I 870 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,640 Speaker 1: don't fit in, you know, I don't know where I belong, um, 871 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:25,600 Speaker 1: but I do not fit in with the majority of 872 00:46:25,680 --> 00:46:27,759 Speaker 1: the kids that I see around me. And there's something 873 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,120 Speaker 1: about myself that I know, even if I don't have 874 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,520 Speaker 1: words for it, that um that I know makes me 875 00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,879 Speaker 1: an outcast, you know. So punk offered refuge to that, 876 00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:39,880 Speaker 1: but the more political side of that that actually speaks 877 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:44,240 Speaker 1: to being anti you know, anti homophobic, anti transphobic, anti racist, 878 00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:47,920 Speaker 1: like anti classist, all those things like that is what 879 00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:51,640 Speaker 1: like pulled me in and kept me there. Um, those 880 00:46:51,719 --> 00:46:54,520 Speaker 1: those like really affirmal things like the sex pistols and 881 00:46:54,560 --> 00:46:58,239 Speaker 1: the all the that's just like such surface appeal of punk. Um, 882 00:46:58,280 --> 00:47:01,120 Speaker 1: and there's no longitivity to it. There's nothing lasting obviously, 883 00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:03,680 Speaker 1: you know, live fast, young and you have a band 884 00:47:03,680 --> 00:47:06,719 Speaker 1: like Fugazi though who really you know, like when it 885 00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,440 Speaker 1: comes down to it, like the artistic choices they made 886 00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:14,080 Speaker 1: for themselves, um, which were moral choices like really gave 887 00:47:14,239 --> 00:47:19,319 Speaker 1: their career you know life. It made them last much 888 00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:21,440 Speaker 1: longer than they would have if they had taken like 889 00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:24,279 Speaker 1: the quick root of signing of selling out, you know 890 00:47:24,719 --> 00:47:27,520 Speaker 1: or something like that. Um. So there's just I don't know, 891 00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:29,760 Speaker 1: there's a lot of lessons there. There's a lot of 892 00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:31,600 Speaker 1: you know, things that you can glean off of that 893 00:47:31,680 --> 00:47:35,239 Speaker 1: of like being true to yourself and the benefits that 894 00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:38,319 Speaker 1: you'll actually receive from that. And it's sometimes hard to 895 00:47:39,120 --> 00:47:41,919 Speaker 1: do that, you know, Like in the title of your book, 896 00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,719 Speaker 1: I assume that you have a particular reason you put 897 00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:48,280 Speaker 1: the word sell out, but I've been called a sellout 898 00:47:48,360 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: by the very guy that introduced me to the Minutemen. 899 00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:54,680 Speaker 1: It's like, oh, you're a sellout, and it broke my 900 00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,640 Speaker 1: heart because I liked pop music and I was like, 901 00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,399 Speaker 1: but I'm not selling and my soul. And I've heard 902 00:48:01,440 --> 00:48:06,759 Speaker 1: you speak on it before, just like major label versus small, 903 00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,680 Speaker 1: smaller label, or putting things out yourself. And when you 904 00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,520 Speaker 1: make that jump, um, when you put out a new 905 00:48:12,560 --> 00:48:15,080 Speaker 1: wave that was our first record at Warner Sire. Yeah, 906 00:48:15,120 --> 00:48:18,239 Speaker 1: with a major label. Well, I guess, like the thing, 907 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,160 Speaker 1: the thing about it is that it's like you know, 908 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:25,480 Speaker 1: it is staying true to yourself. And having learned that 909 00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:28,640 Speaker 1: lesson from Punk of like think for yourself, stay true 910 00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:31,680 Speaker 1: to yourself, and then being in a position where me personally, 911 00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:36,000 Speaker 1: I knew something about myself that I did not know 912 00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,279 Speaker 1: how to express or communicate to other people, being trans right, 913 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,440 Speaker 1: and so I was having this completely different experience than 914 00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,919 Speaker 1: other people were having, and the choices that I made 915 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,879 Speaker 1: were influenced by the experience that I was having. I 916 00:48:47,920 --> 00:48:50,799 Speaker 1: was thinking for myself, like any record label I signed to, 917 00:48:50,920 --> 00:48:54,880 Speaker 1: any made any decision like that was made from my knowledge, 918 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:58,919 Speaker 1: my perspective, not someone else's perspective or someone else's thoughts 919 00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:01,400 Speaker 1: on what I should do with my life. I was 920 00:49:01,440 --> 00:49:04,120 Speaker 1: thinking for myself, you know, so to be in a 921 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:06,680 Speaker 1: situation where you're called to sell out for thinking for yourself, 922 00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:08,920 Speaker 1: to me, it was always just like fuck you. You 923 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:11,800 Speaker 1: don't know where I'm coming from, you don't know anything. 924 00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:14,319 Speaker 1: You have no right to like have an opinion of 925 00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,520 Speaker 1: my life, and you know, just funck off. Part of 926 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:19,520 Speaker 1: the history of our band was for years, every every 927 00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:21,759 Speaker 1: label we signed to, we were called sellouts, and there 928 00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:23,759 Speaker 1: was just a whole row of that, and it all 929 00:49:23,800 --> 00:49:27,160 Speaker 1: came down to bullshit punk politics that didn't really have 930 00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,279 Speaker 1: anything to do with being punk at all. You know. 931 00:49:29,480 --> 00:49:32,680 Speaker 1: It's like being punk versus the policy is of being punk. 932 00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:37,680 Speaker 1: And it's like you're saying, it's question everything, and I 933 00:49:37,719 --> 00:49:40,959 Speaker 1: would take that, even including myself and my decisions I've made. 934 00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,200 Speaker 1: People don't know I made those decisions, and I made 935 00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:47,000 Speaker 1: some good ones that I made way more really really 936 00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:51,000 Speaker 1: bad ones. But like at the time, exactly, we're all 937 00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:54,600 Speaker 1: just human, and I feel like without the bad decision making, 938 00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:58,080 Speaker 1: there's so many lessons I wouldn't have learned. There was 939 00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:00,520 Speaker 1: a quote I read that you and jan j because 940 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:03,680 Speaker 1: I performed with John Jett. She's a couple of years ago. 941 00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 1: She's great and you toured with John Jett, right, Um, 942 00:50:06,520 --> 00:50:09,640 Speaker 1: we've played a number of shows here. Yeah, okay, cool 943 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:14,640 Speaker 1: and um, looks we'd like a champ go for her. God, 944 00:50:14,719 --> 00:50:16,880 Speaker 1: I wish I had that kind of like whish I 945 00:50:16,880 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 1: didn't just have anxiety attacks outsiders amongst outsiders. And I 946 00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,080 Speaker 1: just wanted to tell you that I complete, like, like, 947 00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:30,480 Speaker 1: my heart has never felt so attached to words like 948 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:34,160 Speaker 1: That's how I have felt my entire experience in music, 949 00:50:34,239 --> 00:50:37,960 Speaker 1: even and music was for outsiders. And then every time 950 00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,680 Speaker 1: I've gone to an awards show and I'm sitting next 951 00:50:41,719 --> 00:50:45,600 Speaker 1: to the most fabulous people and I'm dressed in fabulous things, 952 00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:49,160 Speaker 1: but I just feel like so much of an outsider, 953 00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,720 Speaker 1: no matter worries stick me anyways, None of that's creepy. 954 00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:57,800 Speaker 1: And if you were a ghost, what would your style 955 00:50:57,840 --> 00:51:00,520 Speaker 1: of haunting be? If I was a ghost, I would 956 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:04,799 Speaker 1: haunt a hotel specifically. Um, I think you have one 957 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:09,600 Speaker 1: in particular that you would haunt. Um, one in particular. No, 958 00:51:09,719 --> 00:51:15,840 Speaker 1: but I'd want to be in Australia haunted Australian. I 959 00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:20,000 Speaker 1: just want to go to Australia really right now. Ya um, 960 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:21,840 Speaker 1: But I think it'd be cool to haunt a hotel 961 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,640 Speaker 1: just because then you would be continually getting new people 962 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,040 Speaker 1: to haunt and mess with, you know, it wouldn't You 963 00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,440 Speaker 1: wouldn't be stuck with the same people, because then what 964 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:31,600 Speaker 1: have you got like a beetlejuice type situation where you 965 00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,120 Speaker 1: really didn't like the people that you were stuck haunting 966 00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:37,359 Speaker 1: and you had to watch them like going and rearranging 967 00:51:37,360 --> 00:51:39,560 Speaker 1: your house or whatever. You know. So a hotel that's 968 00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,680 Speaker 1: the way, Or it'd be cool. A haunted tour bus too, 969 00:51:41,760 --> 00:51:45,560 Speaker 1: haunted tour bus, you would be good. All of these 970 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,560 Speaker 1: options were great. Well, you are a haunted swimming pool 971 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,520 Speaker 1: you were at some point this year for a brief 972 00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:56,000 Speaker 1: moment in time. Yes, I like relate so much to 973 00:51:56,080 --> 00:51:59,080 Speaker 1: that feeling. If you had a cult, I have to 974 00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 1: like preface this, Okay. I sometimes feel like as a 975 00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:05,040 Speaker 1: musician we kind of do have like a cult following. 976 00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:07,680 Speaker 1: That's what it's called. Just saying. But if you had 977 00:52:07,719 --> 00:52:10,200 Speaker 1: a cult, what would your manifesto be and would there 978 00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:11,680 Speaker 1: be a dress code? And if so, what would that 979 00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:13,680 Speaker 1: dress code be if I had a call, I know 980 00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:17,840 Speaker 1: that for the dress code, that Adidas Sambas would be 981 00:52:17,880 --> 00:52:21,319 Speaker 1: the shoes that everyone had to wear. I think they're 982 00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:24,839 Speaker 1: just the classic Adidas like soccer shoes, looking at three 983 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:29,319 Speaker 1: stripes whatever. Black, pretty nondescript. But I feel like, you know, 984 00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,440 Speaker 1: the key to a successful CALT is the aesthetic, and 985 00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:35,080 Speaker 1: I think starting with proper footwear is good. So we'd 986 00:52:35,080 --> 00:52:37,440 Speaker 1: go with the Adidas and then we'd go all black. 987 00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:39,200 Speaker 1: You know, it just be all black. And I think 988 00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,160 Speaker 1: that people would appreciate that in the cult because it 989 00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:44,000 Speaker 1: really just streamlines decision making in the morning when you 990 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,240 Speaker 1: wake up, what do I wear? You wear all black? Right? Um? 991 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,839 Speaker 1: And then I think as um, you know, a manifesto 992 00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:55,080 Speaker 1: or whatever. We would definitely want our own land. Um. 993 00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:57,440 Speaker 1: I don't think we'd be about the guns or anything 994 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,719 Speaker 1: like that, but we'd want our own land and we 995 00:53:00,880 --> 00:53:03,600 Speaker 1: just want to be left alone and be able to 996 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:08,319 Speaker 1: where where in the world Australia. Australia would be great. Yeah, yeah, 997 00:53:08,400 --> 00:53:10,719 Speaker 1: I mean there's places in the outback right where like 998 00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:14,640 Speaker 1: you can really just whatever goes. Yes, it can get 999 00:53:14,640 --> 00:53:18,759 Speaker 1: pretty creepy. Is there anything you're super superstitious about I 1000 00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:22,240 Speaker 1: don't like to ride escalators. I don't like to stand 1001 00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:26,080 Speaker 1: on escalators. And I'll tell you Kesha. I don't know 1002 00:53:26,160 --> 00:53:29,880 Speaker 1: exactly where this came from, but to me, for some reason, 1003 00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,160 Speaker 1: it got in my head in relating like to the 1004 00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:36,439 Speaker 1: multiverse and string theory, that if you choose to ride 1005 00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:40,680 Speaker 1: on an escalator, it is somehow like just like in 1006 00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:44,839 Speaker 1: a small way, shifting you to a different timeline. That's 1007 00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:49,479 Speaker 1: a timeline that's based on um laziness in some way 1008 00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:51,960 Speaker 1: of just like it is. And I thought you were 1009 00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,040 Speaker 1: going to go to like the shoes string. Literally, have 1010 00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:58,160 Speaker 1: you ever got your shoes stuck in an escalator? No, 1011 00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:00,480 Speaker 1: but that's terrible, and you know that's a danger. But 1012 00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:02,600 Speaker 1: so I don't I don't like to to write escalators. 1013 00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,840 Speaker 1: I'd like to walk upstairs. If I have the option, 1014 00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,200 Speaker 1: I will walk up the stairs. Okay, what about stairs 1015 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:10,239 Speaker 1: versus elevator. I'll take the stairs as well. I got 1016 00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,040 Speaker 1: I had an experience one time at south By Southwest 1017 00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:15,080 Speaker 1: actually where I was stuck in an elevator with um 1018 00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:17,960 Speaker 1: twenty three people for forty five minutes. We had to 1019 00:54:17,960 --> 00:54:22,440 Speaker 1: be rescued by the fire department. It was terrible, claustrophobic. Um, 1020 00:54:22,520 --> 00:54:25,160 Speaker 1: but also kind of fun looking back now, But I 1021 00:54:25,360 --> 00:54:27,880 Speaker 1: still get a little nervous in elevators. That sounds like 1022 00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:31,560 Speaker 1: a nightmare. With twenty something people, Holy sh it, we 1023 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:34,239 Speaker 1: were like partying and we thought it'd be funny. I 1024 00:54:34,239 --> 00:54:36,560 Speaker 1: don't know there was cops involved. There was a pizza 1025 00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:42,080 Speaker 1: delivery guy. It was usually pretty good. Cops always scare me, 1026 00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:44,640 Speaker 1: so I don't know that all sounds elevators Now, I 1027 00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,000 Speaker 1: don't know how I feel about it. Um. Would you 1028 00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:49,360 Speaker 1: rather be abducted by aliens or sleep in a hunted 1029 00:54:49,360 --> 00:54:52,120 Speaker 1: house alone for one night? Um? I'd want to be 1030 00:54:52,160 --> 00:54:55,440 Speaker 1: abducted by aliens, but I'd want them to be abducting me, 1031 00:54:55,560 --> 00:54:59,319 Speaker 1: not to like experiment on me, but abducting me to 1032 00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:03,320 Speaker 1: choose me, like a, hey, you're coming with us, there's 1033 00:55:03,320 --> 00:55:05,400 Speaker 1: something else we've got to show you. Yet you're the 1034 00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:09,719 Speaker 1: one we've been watching. You proved yourself. Let's get out 1035 00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:12,359 Speaker 1: of here, okay. And I'd be like, thank you, thank you. 1036 00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,120 Speaker 1: Maybe this is where I belong. Oh my god. I 1037 00:55:15,160 --> 00:55:17,799 Speaker 1: have a song called Spaceship that's about that, because I'm 1038 00:55:17,840 --> 00:55:20,759 Speaker 1: just like I just am not made for this planet. Apparently, 1039 00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:24,160 Speaker 1: I don't know where, but I'm here ready when you 1040 00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:28,600 Speaker 1: are so sad? Um, what do you think happens when 1041 00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,040 Speaker 1: we die? Or do you not know? Well? I don't 1042 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,239 Speaker 1: know for certain, but I don't think it's the end. 1043 00:55:35,960 --> 00:55:38,480 Speaker 1: I feel like that there has to be something more 1044 00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:42,040 Speaker 1: to it. I I can't explain what that is. I 1045 00:55:42,080 --> 00:55:45,200 Speaker 1: don't think that life is meaningless. I think that there's 1046 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:47,840 Speaker 1: meaning for it. And I think that eventually you do 1047 00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:51,000 Speaker 1: get to understand things that you don't. So you're not 1048 00:55:51,040 --> 00:55:56,200 Speaker 1: a total nihilist. No, not not at all. That's like 1049 00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,000 Speaker 1: so heartwarming, because I like I feel the same way. 1050 00:55:59,080 --> 00:56:01,479 Speaker 1: Like I really I do think that at some point 1051 00:56:01,480 --> 00:56:04,640 Speaker 1: our consciousness will let us know what's going on. We 1052 00:56:04,719 --> 00:56:07,600 Speaker 1: just can't see it yet. Yeah. If you could be 1053 00:56:07,719 --> 00:56:14,040 Speaker 1: haunted by anyone, who would it be? Um? I don't know. 1054 00:56:14,160 --> 00:56:17,120 Speaker 1: I kind of believe that I go through periods of 1055 00:56:17,160 --> 00:56:22,319 Speaker 1: time being haunted by certain people. Um in ways like 1056 00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,600 Speaker 1: do you know who the marquessa Luisa Casati is? Well, 1057 00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:28,839 Speaker 1: I know the name, but I don't know who that is. 1058 00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:33,799 Speaker 1: She was amused, Let's say, uh she was uh, you 1059 00:56:33,800 --> 00:56:39,760 Speaker 1: know bourgeois. Um came from money Italian late eighteen hundreds 1060 00:56:39,840 --> 00:56:43,120 Speaker 1: early nineteen hundreds used to throw these fantastic parties at 1061 00:56:43,120 --> 00:56:47,040 Speaker 1: our palazzo in Venice, and uh lived in what became 1062 00:56:47,040 --> 00:56:50,640 Speaker 1: the Goggenheim there um and was painted by you know, 1063 00:56:50,680 --> 00:56:55,200 Speaker 1: all these famous portrait painters and photographers took her photo 1064 00:56:55,280 --> 00:56:57,840 Speaker 1: and she just was known for her parties, but eventually 1065 00:56:57,880 --> 00:57:01,719 Speaker 1: died in obscurity around World War two, living in a 1066 00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,320 Speaker 1: flat in London. And I became obsessed with her story 1067 00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:08,520 Speaker 1: to the point where like, you know, whatever pictures I 1068 00:57:08,520 --> 00:57:12,560 Speaker 1: could find of her, like uh, paintings, whatever, you know, 1069 00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:15,760 Speaker 1: UM would buy them online prince and have a collection 1070 00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:18,520 Speaker 1: of them framed, and would read whatever books I could 1071 00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:22,360 Speaker 1: about her life. When and visited her grave in Brompton 1072 00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,360 Speaker 1: Cemetery in England, you know, I had a picnic by 1073 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,960 Speaker 1: myself at her grave and Uh, in a ways it 1074 00:57:28,040 --> 00:57:33,240 Speaker 1: felt like choosing to be haunted by someone you know, yeah, yeah, 1075 00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:36,120 Speaker 1: but at the same time also carrying someone's thought around 1076 00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:39,600 Speaker 1: with you. UM felt like being haunted by a past 1077 00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:42,000 Speaker 1: that you never were a part of in a strange way. 1078 00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:44,280 Speaker 1: But then at the same time, like you know, there 1079 00:57:44,400 --> 00:57:47,240 Speaker 1: is a separation of it not being like uncontrollable haunting, 1080 00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:49,200 Speaker 1: So I like haunting like that. I like kind of 1081 00:57:49,240 --> 00:57:53,280 Speaker 1: becoming enraptured by uh, figures from the past and doing 1082 00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:57,400 Speaker 1: sounds like she's amused, Yeah exactly. Yeah. Well, and the 1083 00:57:57,400 --> 00:57:59,560 Speaker 1: the idea that she you know, she was always seeking 1084 00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:03,200 Speaker 1: a more reality and she did find a form of immortality, 1085 00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:06,720 Speaker 1: and uh her as a muse continues to exist. You know. 1086 00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,760 Speaker 1: Aren't we all seeking immortality through making art? Or is 1087 00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:14,000 Speaker 1: that just me? Yeah? I think to some extent, you know, 1088 00:58:14,160 --> 00:58:17,120 Speaker 1: artists do like hope to conquer death in that way. Yeah, 1089 00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:19,800 Speaker 1: And I think the way that you will, um is 1090 00:58:20,040 --> 00:58:22,280 Speaker 1: yet to be and imagined by you in so many 1091 00:58:22,280 --> 00:58:24,480 Speaker 1: different ways. I think about that, Like I was thinking 1092 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,240 Speaker 1: about that recently in regards to Vang Go um and 1093 00:58:27,280 --> 00:58:30,440 Speaker 1: how like, um, you know what van Go's life was, 1094 00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,480 Speaker 1: living in poverty, um, you know, selling paintings for like 1095 00:58:34,760 --> 00:58:38,480 Speaker 1: you know, giving them away basically, and then the fantastic 1096 00:58:38,480 --> 00:58:40,760 Speaker 1: future we live in now where there's like hot air 1097 00:58:40,800 --> 00:58:44,120 Speaker 1: balloon festivals with van Go paintings. So there I saw 1098 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,040 Speaker 1: like a parade of people you know, painted like van 1099 00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:50,400 Speaker 1: Go paintings, walking down in frames, walking down the street. Um. 1100 00:58:50,440 --> 00:58:52,480 Speaker 1: And how that those were things that van Go could 1101 00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:55,920 Speaker 1: have never imagined, you know that, never have predicted. And 1102 00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:59,360 Speaker 1: so I love that life um transforms itself in those 1103 00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:01,800 Speaker 1: ways and gets you to places you never thought would happen. 1104 00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:05,800 Speaker 1: I love that. Okay, that's a beautiful sentiment to end on. 1105 00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,160 Speaker 1: You never know where this ship is going to take you. 1106 00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:13,400 Speaker 1: Stay creepy. Thank you so much. This is Laura Jane Grace. 1107 00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:15,480 Speaker 1: And before you go, is there anything you would like 1108 00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:18,280 Speaker 1: for people to read or listen to from you or 1109 00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:21,040 Speaker 1: a website or an Instagram or anything like that. Well, 1110 00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:24,160 Speaker 1: you can follow me on Instagram. Let's just at Grace 1111 00:59:24,320 --> 00:59:27,600 Speaker 1: and okay, and I will follow you, kesha. Um. But 1112 00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,360 Speaker 1: other than you know you mentioned, I have a record 1113 00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:32,680 Speaker 1: out better than that. No, just everyone, please, you know, 1114 00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,320 Speaker 1: stay alive and stay sane, and I hope that we 1115 00:59:35,360 --> 00:59:37,880 Speaker 1: all get through this mess we're in right now, um 1116 00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:39,720 Speaker 1: soon and we get back to some of the things 1117 00:59:39,720 --> 00:59:42,880 Speaker 1: that we all love so much, like live music, you know, yes, 1118 00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:50,200 Speaker 1: and haunted venues, traveling talk, creating new haunts. All right, 1119 00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,760 Speaker 1: thank you so much. Is such a pleasure, pleasure a 1120 00:59:52,800 --> 01:00:06,400 Speaker 1: smart thank you, Kesha, appreciate it. Un