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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, the Charlie Kurrent shooting suspects,

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Speaker 1: million dollar defense and.

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Speaker 2: We're paying for it.

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Speaker 1: This as the defendant claims no one was in danger, really,

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Speaker 1: his family insisting he's never set foot on the campus

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Speaker 1: anyway and that it's not him.

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Speaker 2: Caught on video. Uh okay, who should I believe you are?

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Speaker 2: My lying eyes?

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Speaker 1: Does it all boil down to this confessions, DNA and

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Speaker 1: Grandpa's rifle? The evidence stacking up? I mean, is he Grace?

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I'm going to thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us.

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Speaker 3: It's about two minutes in when the shot was fired.

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Speaker 1: All witnesses are reporting that Polly heard was a single

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Speaker 1: shot that was fired and he reached out to his.

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Speaker 4: Neck and blood was starting the gutshot of his.

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Speaker 5: Neck and it hit him in the coroner at art

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Speaker 5: and that caused a bleedout almost immediately.

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Speaker 1: The Charlie Kirk shooting suspect court appearance yesterday, he did.

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Speaker 2: Not show his face.

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Speaker 1: This as we hear his roommate, his romantic partner, apparently

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Speaker 1: laying low even in a safe house. You know, Charlie

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Speaker 1: Kirk didn't have that opportunity, did he.

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Speaker 2: This as the.

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Speaker 1: Suspect's family also laying low, But tonight we are learning

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Speaker 1: some family members insisting what he's never set foot on

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Speaker 1: the campus before. Okay, I guess all the cameras are lying,

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Speaker 1: So what does that mean it's not him we.

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Speaker 2: See on the video.

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Speaker 1: So much happening straight out to Sidney Sumner Crime Stories

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Speaker 1: investigative reporter. How is how are certain family members claiming

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Speaker 1: that he the suspect, never has been on that campus?

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Speaker 6: How?

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Speaker 2: What's that happening?

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Speaker 1: Am I supposed to ignore what he said in the

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Speaker 1: text to his romantic partner roommate?

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Speaker 6: According to Kandace Owens, you are supposed to ignore those

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Speaker 6: texts because they were offered by SBI agents and not

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Speaker 6: Tyler Robinson to land that was stopping.

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Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm sorry, my earpace must not be working correctly

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Speaker 1: because I've thought for sure, Sydney Summer, I heard you.

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Speaker 2: Say that there is a theory that all the.

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Speaker 1: Text that the alleged shooter sent his romantic partner roommate

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Speaker 1: were actually written by the FBI.

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Speaker 2: Did you say that? I didn't.

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Speaker 6: Candace Owens did on her streams yesterday afternoon, so she

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Speaker 6: took the steps further. We've already heard rumors that gen

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Speaker 6: z ers are saying, you know, I've never heard a

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Speaker 6: twenty two year old talk like that over text message.

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Speaker 2: This is really weird.

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Speaker 6: And she came out and made that accusation yesterday that

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Speaker 6: these text messages are part of an SBI cover up

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Speaker 6: and an SBI agent without a modicum of intelligence wrote

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Speaker 6: those text messages.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So the FBI agent was in on the whole thing,

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Speaker 1: that it was the grandpa's long gun and he couldn't

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Speaker 1: he the legislator couldn't retrieve it and was caught on

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Speaker 1: cam and a dairy queen waiting to go back into

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Speaker 1: the trees and bushes.

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Speaker 2: To get his gun. So the FBI agent that this.

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Speaker 1: Conservative influencer is talking about, what is clairvoyant he was

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Speaker 1: in on the whole thing, or what did he plant

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Speaker 1: the gun to this.

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Speaker 2: From canvas Owens Sydney helped me out. What is she claiming?

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Speaker 6: Well, Nancy, so they're claiming Owens is claiming that these

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Speaker 6: text messages include every single detail that police had tracking

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Speaker 6: Tyler Robinson up until the point that he was arrested.

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Speaker 6: So we're hearing reports now from law enforcement sources that

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Speaker 6: Robinson actually had a run in with police near UVU

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Speaker 6: campus the evening after the shooting, and they believe he

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Speaker 6: was trying to make a move to retrieve that rifle. Now,

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Speaker 6: law enforcements already had the rifle in their possession, They already.

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Speaker 2: Knew what model it was.

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Speaker 6: They already knew that it had a big two thousand

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Speaker 6: dollars scope on it. So Owens is pointing out that

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Speaker 6: these text messages include every single detail of the planning

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Speaker 6: of the shooting, of the rifle that was used in

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Speaker 6: the shooting, and that feels a little bit suspicious. She

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Speaker 6: finds that odd that this thirty start right.

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Speaker 2: So now here we go.

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Speaker 1: The floodgates are open. I haven't even gotten to the

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Speaker 1: hearing that went down yesterday.

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Speaker 2: And what if anything it means to the defense and

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Speaker 2: the state.

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Speaker 1: We are bombarded by these insane theories that the FBI

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Speaker 1: secretly wrote all the texts from Robinson, the alleged shooter,

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Speaker 1: to his roommate, his romantic partner, Lance Twigs, Okay Sky,

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Speaker 1: lazarro joining me, state and federal criminal defense attorney with

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Speaker 1: Ray Quinny and Kniebecker Sky just take off your defense

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Speaker 1: hat one moment, if that's possible. This is fodder for

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Speaker 1: the defense. It's complete fodder. Now, any defense attorney in

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Speaker 1: their right mind would likely not claim that the texts

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Speaker 1: were sent by the FBI because there's just too much

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Speaker 1: knowledge in those texts that nobody else would know all

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Speaker 1: those details other than the sender.

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Speaker 2: But that said, this is muddying the water for the state.

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Speaker 1: All these conspiracy theories have gone wild, and basically the

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Speaker 1: defense can sit back at Pickin's shoes, which crazy Zany

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Speaker 1: conspiracy theory they're going to present to the jury have

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Speaker 1: to come up with a trial strategy. The online sleuths

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Speaker 1: are doing it for them.

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Speaker 7: I couldn't agree more.

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Speaker 2: You know, in this case, this is the best thing that.

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Speaker 7: Can happen, because if you've got a jury pool is

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Speaker 7: fighting with each other about conspiracy theories or this happened

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Speaker 7: or this didn't happen. I mean, that's the best thing

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Speaker 7: that can happen.

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Speaker 1: To these I want to actually see her face, Sky

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Speaker 1: lazarro has won a lot of cases, but I want

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Speaker 1: to see her face. Did you just say, with apparently

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Speaker 1: a straight face, that the defense could blame the government

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Speaker 1: for Charlie Kirk's assassination.

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Speaker 6: No, no, no, no, no, no, what a.

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Speaker 2: FBI agent really did it.

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Speaker 7: No defense attorney is going to do that. That's not

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Speaker 7: going to happen. It's not going to happen in this case. Well,

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Speaker 7: my point was is when you have a jury pool,

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Speaker 7: who's out there, who's getting all of this information and

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Speaker 7: hearing this from different platforms? And I think you know,

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Speaker 7: Candae said millions of viewers yesterday, people believe that stuff.

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Speaker 7: And if you have, if you have a jury pool

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Speaker 7: that is divided on whether or not the government had

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Speaker 7: a hand in this or covered it up or something else,

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Speaker 7: I mean, that's that's the grounds for jury or nullification.

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Speaker 6: Somewhere along the.

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Speaker 2: Way, Chris McDonough, Chris mcdonaugh helped me.

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Speaker 1: Look, i know that some of these wild claims which

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Speaker 1: were about to hear are zany. But when I'm sitting

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Speaker 1: in the prosecutor's chair and I've got Charlie Kirk's widow

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Speaker 1: sitting behind me.

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Speaker 2: Waiting for me to somehow wave.

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Speaker 1: A magic wand and make it all turn out right,

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Speaker 1: and you are confronted with theories like which being thrown

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Speaker 1: out right now, polluting the jury pool, it's overwhelming.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I'm I'm angry. I am angry.

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Speaker 1: All they make believe and pretend theories that are out

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Speaker 1: there as to who assassinated Charlie Kirk in cold blood.

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Speaker 1: Now a rogue FBI agent did it. It's you can't

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Speaker 1: laugh it off, Chris, as tempting as it is. McDonough

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Speaker 1: is a former homicide investigator. He worked vice, He's worked

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Speaker 1: every angle for the state. He's now the star of

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Speaker 1: the interview room on YouTube, director of the Cold Case Foundation, Chris.

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Speaker 2: This is not a joke. This is real. You get

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Speaker 2: one nut Jr. Look look at O. J. Simpson.

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Speaker 1: Really, people really believe the police could hold it together

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Speaker 1: and create a conspiracy.

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Speaker 2: It's totallys same thing here.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, Nan Cham. I mean and you know more

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Speaker 5: than anybody being in that courtroom to hear craziness like this,

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Speaker 5: I mean, this is just irresponsible right now. I mean

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Speaker 5: the fact that you have this allegation that you know,

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Speaker 5: some other dude i e. Law enforcement, the government, whoever

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Speaker 5: you know, had set this shit up and it's you know,

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Speaker 5: some gigantic conspiracy.

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Speaker 2: Exigent him up.

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Speaker 1: What kid are you talking about, well, Rob talking about

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Speaker 1: is there somehow a middle school shooter?

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Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know what kid are you talking about?

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Speaker 3: Well?

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Speaker 5: You know we're talking about Tyler Robinson, right, I mean,

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Speaker 5: and by the way I interviewed the younger kid, Well, well,

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Speaker 5: I agree with you, but you know he's also not

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Speaker 5: the smartest tool in the shed, even though he has

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Speaker 5: an IQ that's extremely high. The fact that he's left

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Speaker 5: all the evidence behind him and in front of him.

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Speaker 5: By the way, this I think this is part of

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Speaker 5: a place somewhere from somebody.

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Speaker 2: Wait.

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Speaker 1: The fact that the conspiracy theories are going to make

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Speaker 1: a lot of hay out of what you said just

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Speaker 1: then about leaving Evan and Ola. They're going to claim it

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Speaker 1: was planted. And I don't want to hear another word

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Speaker 1: about he's too dumb to pull it off. This guy

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Speaker 1: won a forty nearly forty thousand dollars scholarship controller and

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Speaker 1: please pull that video up, And do I have to

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Speaker 1: convince McDonough again for Pete to listen.

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Speaker 8: To receive the Resident Presidential Scholarship from Utah si University.

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Speaker 8: The value of this scholarship is approximately thirty two thousand dollars.

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Speaker 5: This scholarship is available for forty years or he's Yeah, well,

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Speaker 5: the state saves a lot of money on that one.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, all that opportunity, all that advantage, and what did

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Speaker 1: he do?

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Speaker 2: What were you saying about the under sheriff.

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Speaker 5: Well, I interviewed the under sheriff and he confirmed that

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Speaker 5: everything that is being said online is not true. First

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Speaker 5: of all, the Tyler Robinson's father was not in law enforcement.

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Speaker 5: It was his friend and that's still being it out there. Second,

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Speaker 5: he did turn himself into the jail with a friend

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Speaker 5: of his who was retired law enforcement. That's not a conspiracy,

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Speaker 5: that's fact.

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Speaker 2: Crime stories.

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Speaker 1: With Nancy Grace, Chris McDonough's, you know what, you're branching

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Speaker 1: out into even more conspiracy theories. And normally I would

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Speaker 1: tastise you for getting off the point, but you're right

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Speaker 1: another conspiracy theory, and let's take a look at the

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Speaker 1: source of some of the conspiracy theories.

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Speaker 9: Any person with a modicum of intelligence is going to go,

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Speaker 9: I'm not going to put this down in writing with

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Speaker 9: every detail.

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Speaker 2: And apparently whoever offered.

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Speaker 9: Those messages likely Fed's, didn't have a modicum of intelligence.

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Speaker 9: The family says that the photo of the young man

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Speaker 9: that is coming up the stairs, which was shared at

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Speaker 9: Blurry Image, is definitively not Tyler Robinson, and when I

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Speaker 9: put together when I'm being told by Lance's family and

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Speaker 9: when I'm hearing from the Robinson family through a third party,

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Speaker 9: I will say that it matches.

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Speaker 2: It kind of seems like they're agreeing.

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Speaker 9: One family's going, Hey, Lance is kind of evil, Why

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Speaker 9: is he getting Why is he getting cleared?

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Speaker 2: The other one's going, Tyler's not this guy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I really don't know where to start with that big, steaming,

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Speaker 1: stinky crock of BS I just heard that is from

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Speaker 1: Candae Owens.

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Speaker 2: Let's just break it down very quickly.

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Speaker 1: And then maybe we can actually get to the facts,

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Speaker 1: the real facts, the hard evidence about what is happening now.

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Speaker 1: First of all, any person with a modicum of intelligence

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Speaker 1: is going to go I'm.

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Speaker 2: Not going to put this all down in writing.

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Speaker 1: Every detail, and whoever authored those messages like the FEDS

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Speaker 1: don't have a modicum of intelligence.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: I was a FED for three years before I became

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Speaker 1: a felony prosecutor in Superior Court, So as a former FED,

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Speaker 1: I don't appreciate that very much. But that said, I'm

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Speaker 1: very very curious Street makeout to Sky lazarro joining US

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Speaker 1: veteran trial lawyer in both the state and federal criminal systems.

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Speaker 1: That is a really long stretch to claim, Hey, the

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Speaker 1: defendant would never put so many details in his text.

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Speaker 2: Byes, Yes they would because they're not that smart. Sky.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think the federal and the state jails

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Speaker 1: are so full because they're idiots?

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Speaker 7: I wish to to my clients ever wrote anything down,

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Speaker 7: but that is not the reality.

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Speaker 2: No, it's not.

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Speaker 1: And also, let's talk about this to Tracy Brown joining us.

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Speaker 1: You guys know Tracy very well, body language expert and

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Speaker 1: author of How to Detect Lies, Fraud and Identity Theft.

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Speaker 2: She's body language trainer dot com. Tracy.

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Speaker 1: Please, when you think that you are texting with your

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Speaker 1: romantic partner, you say a lot more than you would

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Speaker 1: say to other people.

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Speaker 4: Right, I think you do because there's a very deep

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Speaker 4: trust there.

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Speaker 2: I would say.

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Speaker 4: One of the things that concerned me when I saw

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Speaker 4: this was the perfect punctuation and capitalization and it didn't

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Speaker 4: seem age appropriate to me. So either he's so smart

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Speaker 4: that he's not tuned into his generation, or something else

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Speaker 4: has taken over.

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Speaker 2: It's very odd. Hut her up.

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Speaker 1: Just so you know, try I see both of my

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Speaker 1: twins text NonStop to me, and their punctuation is always perfect.

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Speaker 1: Really wow, Okay that's really yeah, so reality check. Another

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Speaker 1: thing too, Alison Paganelli joining US forensic psychologists. Esteemed forensic

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Speaker 1: psychologists joining us out of the Atlanta jurisdiction. Alison Paganelli,

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Speaker 1: thank you for being with us, Alison. When you are

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Speaker 1: writing someone that you trust and that you love, that

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Speaker 1: you're romantic with very often, and you lower your guard

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Speaker 1: and you say things you wouldn't normally say to anybody else,

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Speaker 1: isn't that true?

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Speaker 2: Yes? I like that short and sweet. Yes. Another thing

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Speaker 2: regarding this conspiracy theory that the.

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Speaker 1: FBI really wrote the text and not the defendant. The

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Speaker 1: FBI would have to be clairvoyant in some way to

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Speaker 1: know all the details about Grandpa's long gun and how

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Speaker 1: he was trying to go back and retrieve it, and

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Speaker 1: so much more contained in those texts from Tyler Robinson

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Speaker 1: to his roommate. Yes, they would be overly involved.

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Speaker 10: If this were the conspiracy that Candice Owen says it is,

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Speaker 10: then that would mean that the FBI was tracking mister Robinson,

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Speaker 10: knew of weapons, that he had a hold on this

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Speaker 10: the moment.

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Speaker 1: Tracking mister Robinson more like setting him up, because they

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Speaker 1: if the FBI is responsible, then they would have been

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Speaker 1: responsible for the shooting and for setting it up and

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Speaker 1: for framing him. I mean, this goes a lot deeper

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Speaker 1: than thinking a few texts.

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Speaker 2: So you would have to.

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Speaker 1: Believe that the FBI was in on this from the

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Speaker 1: get go. Do you really believe that, because I find

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Speaker 1: it to be a fantastical farce.

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Speaker 10: Do I believe that that's what happened? No, I don't.

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Speaker 10: To me, it would be far fetched for the FBI

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Speaker 10: to pick Tyler Robinson out of many, many males and

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Speaker 10: females who are online talking about various political things. He's

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Speaker 10: a twenty two year old, allegedly really intelligent, he got

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Speaker 10: the scholarship.

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Speaker 2: It would seem to me.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, like I said, pretty far fetched for them to

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Speaker 10: just pick him out and decide, we're going to frame

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Speaker 10: this guy, and we're going to send all these texts.

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Speaker 2: With all the details.

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Speaker 10: It's just it would have had to have been pre

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Speaker 10: planned for a long period of time, and I just

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Speaker 10: don't think that's a plausible theory.

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Speaker 2: It's not plausible.

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Speaker 1: Harmonia Rodriguez now joining US chief US reporter with dailymail

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Speaker 1: dot Com. Harmonia, thank you for being with US so

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Speaker 1: you know now that we're hashing out and this is

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Speaker 1: just one conspiracy theory that the FBI really.

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Speaker 2: Wrote the text.

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Speaker 1: I haven't even gotten to what happened in court, Harmonia,

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Speaker 1: Where is this coming from?

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Speaker 2: This theory? And another thing I.

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Speaker 1: Heard Owen's claim is that the families are saying the

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Speaker 1: defendant is innocent.

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Speaker 2: Of course they are. They always say that. How often

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Speaker 2: do you see.

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Speaker 1: The mother of And by the way, these are this

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Speaker 1: is the family that convinced him to turn himself in,

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Speaker 1: all right now claiming yeah, that's not him in the picture.

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Speaker 2: It's just where's this coming from?

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Speaker 11: This case has been completely riddled by conspiracy theories that

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Speaker 11: have really emerged on social media, particularly on x A lot.

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Speaker 11: You talked about people saying that the text messages do

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Speaker 11: not sound how a gen Zer would speak. We saw

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Speaker 11: a lot of memes being done about this.

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Speaker 1: You know, please, Harmonia, have you noticed it? Everybody talking

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Speaker 1: about how a gen Zer would speak is not a

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Speaker 1: gen Zer? Okay, so consider the source on that.

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Speaker 11: Go ahead, please correct This was all speculation based on

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Speaker 11: nothing specific. But then we start seeing these same conspiracies

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Speaker 11: emerge from Candace Own's show. Now it's important to remember

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Speaker 11: that Canda's owns is not a typical journalist. She claims

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Speaker 11: that she's been speaking to the family of Tyler Robinson,

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Speaker 11: who allegedly claims that that's not their son involved. However,

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Speaker 11: we don't really have evidence about this. She's not saying

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Speaker 11: which people she speak into. She actually mentioned the clip

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Speaker 11: that you showed that she's talking to them through a

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Speaker 11: third person. So a lot of what Kendace owns to

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Speaker 11: say on her show seems to lead to other of

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Speaker 11: the conspiracy theories that she has been peddling about Charlie

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Speaker 11: Kirk and who would have wanted to have him gone

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Speaker 11: according to her.

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Speaker 1: You know, another issue to Sky lazarro joining as veteran

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Speaker 1: trial lawyer out of the Utah jurisdiction. Sky, So much

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Speaker 1: of it is fantastical, but when you seek the twelve

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Speaker 1: in the box, you don't know what they're really thinking.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I would try to get as up close

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Speaker 1: and personal to each juror as I could without getting

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Speaker 1: reprimanded by the judge, and I mean physically close.

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Speaker 2: To them, right up.

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Speaker 1: To the jury rail, if I could to look them

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Speaker 1: in the eye and watch them the way I'm watching

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Speaker 1: you right now, as they answered each question, and the questions,

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Speaker 1: you know, after the typical where do you work, how

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Speaker 1: long have you been there? Or do you have a family,

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Speaker 1: do you know the defendant? Do you know anybody in

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Speaker 1: his family? Blah blah blah. I would look right at

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Speaker 1: them and hold their gaze to see if they looked away,

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Speaker 1: if they blinked rapidly, if they had mannerisms that suggested

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Speaker 1: they had to think about their answers, or they concealing something.

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Speaker 2: You never know skt what they're really thinking.

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Speaker 1: And we've seen so many jurors recently that have gone

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Speaker 1: online and investigated the case themselves, which is prohibited during

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Speaker 1: a trial. You've got to be really careful that one

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Speaker 1: of these jurors haven't gotten sucked down the conspiracy drain

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Speaker 1: that's one hundred percent cracked.

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Speaker 7: I think our biggest fear is trial lawyers are the

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Speaker 7: people who really want to be there. You almost want

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Speaker 7: jerors who don't want to be there because they're probably

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Speaker 7: less involved in the case. You're absolutely right, it doesn't

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Speaker 7: matter how much you do in bordy or how close

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Speaker 7: you get to them. You never know really what those

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Speaker 7: people are thinking deep down, or if they have uh

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Speaker 7: any affiliations or gone down these conspiracy theory rat holes

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Speaker 7: and just want to be a part of this case.

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Speaker 7: And the other thing is, unless just a question, it's

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Speaker 7: almost impossible to keep them offline during your trial.

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Speaker 1: And of course, this is a defense team's fantasy. Is said,

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Speaker 1: you're our fantasy game that they're playing right now, largely

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Speaker 1: fueled by sluice. Tonight, we are dealing with the facts

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Speaker 1: as we know them, and now not he said, she said.

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Speaker 1: The third cousin twice removed told the gas station attendant this,

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Speaker 1: and then they called me.

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Speaker 2: Blah blah blah. But here are just a few of the.

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Speaker 1: Conspiracy theories that are spinning out right now. And trust me,

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Speaker 1: believe you me. The defense is writing everyone down.

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Speaker 9: Listen, any person with a modicum of intelligence is going

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Speaker 9: to go, I'm not going to put this down.

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Speaker 2: In writing with every detail.

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Speaker 9: And apparently whoever offered those messages likely Fed's didn't have

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Speaker 9: a modicum of intelligence. The family says that the photo

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Speaker 9: of the young man that is coming up the stairs,

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Speaker 9: which was shared at Blurry Image, is definitively not Tyler Robinson.

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Speaker 9: And when I put together, when I'm being told by

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Speaker 9: Lance's family and when I'm hearing from the.

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Speaker 2: Robinson family.

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Speaker 9: Through a third party, I will say that it matches.

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Speaker 9: It kind of seems like they're agreeing. One family's going, hey,

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Speaker 9: Lance is kind of evil. Why is he getting Why

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Speaker 9: is he getting cleared? And the other one's going, Tyler's

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Speaker 9: not this guy.

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Speaker 2: From Candas Owens.

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Speaker 3: This is a father of two and a little girl,

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Speaker 3: a little boy, wife, ericakhim or Haiti.

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Speaker 2: He's a media figure.

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Speaker 1: He was magnetic.

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Speaker 3: Charlie Kirk is one of these people that is a firebrand.

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Speaker 3: They know he is one of these guys who has

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Speaker 3: he stood up for what he believes in.

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Speaker 12: Candace Owens claims a source close to the Robinson family

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Speaker 12: believe Robinson is being framed. Has never been to UVU campus.

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Speaker 12: Robinson's parents know the blurry photos distributed by law enforcement

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Speaker 12: are not their son. Robinson never confessed to his father,

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Speaker 12: and he did not write the messages to Lance Twiggs

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Speaker 12: on September tenth.

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Speaker 2: Why are you playing that?

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Speaker 1: I just said We're going to be dealing with facts tonight,

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Speaker 1: not zany conspiracy theories that are handing over wild ideas

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Speaker 1: for the defense to pursue in front of a jury. No,

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Speaker 1: let's go to the courtroom. Listen to what the judge

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Speaker 1: just said.

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Speaker 8: As this case moves forward, mister Robinson's constitutional rights will

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Speaker 8: be protected at every stage he sits before this court

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Speaker 8: presumed innocence, and that presumption remains unless and until, gentlemen,

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Speaker 8: of every offense charged against him is proved beyond a

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Speaker 8: reasonable doubt. At the same time, and as applicable, victims

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Speaker 8: are entitled under our Constitution to be treated with fairness,

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Speaker 8: respect and dignity, free from harassment or abuse. Justice demands

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Speaker 8: that both of these principles, the rights of the accused

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Speaker 8: and the rights of victims, be honored without compromise.

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Speaker 2: City Center.

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Speaker 1: We're hearing the judge right there, Judge Torri Graft speaking

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Speaker 1: talking about being fair not just to the defendant, but

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Speaker 1: to the victims the state as well. Why did everybody

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Speaker 1: go berserve when the judge said he was going to

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Speaker 1: be fair.

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Speaker 2: I don't get it. What's wrong with that?

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Speaker 6: I found nothing wrong with it. I think the judge

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Speaker 6: made the decision to speak on this issue and speak

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Speaker 6: on keeping things fair because this is such a charge

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Speaker 6: case going forward. They really want to protect the defendant,

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Speaker 6: the victim, the future jury. At this latest hearing. Attendees

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Speaker 6: who came in person were not allowed to have bags,

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Speaker 6: They were not allowed to wear any kind of face

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Speaker 6: covering that could possibly conceal their identity. There are serious

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Speaker 6: secure security concerns with this upcoming trial, with all of

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Speaker 6: the hearings up until the trial, and they want to

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Speaker 6: make sure everyone feels safe and secure in that courtroom,

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Speaker 6: you know.

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Speaker 1: To Harmonia Rodriguez joining US chief US reporter with Daily Mail,

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Speaker 1: I respect the judge because the judge is standing up

446
00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:41,560
Speaker 1: to people, the baying mob that is demanding one thing

447
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:46,119
Speaker 1: or all the conspiracy theories shore demanding another thing, and

448
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,439
Speaker 1: he is saying he's going to be fair and they

449
00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,880
Speaker 1: can all go straight to h doublel. Of course, I'm

450
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,919
Speaker 1: paraphrasing right there that he is going to do the

451
00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:58,160
Speaker 1: right thing. Tell me, Siddy was just talking about the

452
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,560
Speaker 1: security measures taken for this is just the hearing and

453
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 1: the defendant didn't even show his face. Profound security measures taken,

454
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:12,159
Speaker 1: explain Harmonia.

455
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 2: That's right.

456
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:15,280
Speaker 11: This was a hearing that was open to the public,

457
00:26:15,440 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 11: so officials had to take extra steps to protect those

458
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:22,400
Speaker 11: that were there and also make sure that the influx

459
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,600
Speaker 11: of people into the courtroom that everyone was saved, and

460
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:27,160
Speaker 11: that is why the judge.

461
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:27,959
Speaker 2: Made these statements.

462
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,560
Speaker 11: This case has caused so much commotion around the world,

463
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 11: on the country, and people wanted to show up to

464
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 11: this hearing, even though, as you mentioned, we didn't even

465
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:41,920
Speaker 11: see Tyler Robinson on the video. So the judge made

466
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 11: sure to say under these circumstances, where we have all

467
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,280
Speaker 11: this extra security, where the President of the United States

468
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 11: is talking about, is I will not put my finger

469
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:53,880
Speaker 11: on the scale of justice. And it was a message

470
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 11: I think that needed to be said in this case.

471
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 1: You know, the fact that he kept the hearing open

472
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 1: to the public, as is ordered by the US Constitution,

473
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:09,800
Speaker 1: in the face of what many considered to be a

474
00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:15,119
Speaker 1: copycat shooting, to me, shows great bravery.

475
00:27:14,680 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: On the part of the judge. Listen to this.

476
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,040
Speaker 13: A twenty nine year old Texas man opens fire on

477
00:27:19,119 --> 00:27:23,080
Speaker 13: an ice facility in Dallas. Joshua John fired indiscriminately at

478
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:26,439
Speaker 13: the building, killing one detainee and injuring two more. Bullet

479
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 13: ca scenes recovered at the scene were inscribed with quote

480
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:33,320
Speaker 13: anti ice. John's brother said he did not know John

481
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 13: to be very politically motivated. The brothers grew up in

482
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 13: nearby Allen texas As boy Scouts. One of John's boy

483
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:44,199
Speaker 13: Scout friends remembered a conversation about immigration with John in

484
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:46,760
Speaker 13: which he was upset that no one seemed to understand

485
00:27:46,840 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 13: how desperate families are to get away from dangerous situations.

486
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,600
Speaker 1: And there you hear a guy who is seemingly not

487
00:27:55,160 --> 00:28:01,639
Speaker 1: concerned with politics before being led to a blind shooting.

488
00:28:02,119 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: And this is not whether you agree with Ice or

489
00:28:04,359 --> 00:28:05,480
Speaker 1: don't agree with Ice.

490
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:07,399
Speaker 2: This is a.

491
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:13,639
Speaker 1: Shooter politically motivated killing people. The fact that the judge

492
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:18,720
Speaker 1: had an open courtroom is very impressive and standing up

493
00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: to both sides, both very powerful sides wanting one outcome

494
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,879
Speaker 1: or the next. Now you just heard Harmonia Rodriguez mentioned

495
00:28:30,359 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: the judge referring to the scales of justice.

496
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:37,680
Speaker 8: Listen, I will carry out my duties with fidelity, transparency,

497
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 8: and impartiality, treating every person who appears before me with

498
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 8: the dignity and respect they inherently do because they are

499
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,720
Speaker 8: human beings. Let me be clear, I will not put

500
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:53,480
Speaker 8: my finger on the scale of justice. These proceedings will

501
00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 8: be open to the public, conducted in accordance with the law,

502
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 8: and handled with big diligence and competent to ensure that

503
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,640
Speaker 8: justice is never compromised.

504
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,479
Speaker 1: What he means by that is, as you all know,

505
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:11,800
Speaker 1: Lady Justice carries a shield and a sword, she also

506
00:29:12,200 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: holds the scales.

507
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,600
Speaker 2: Of justice in her hands.

508
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:19,160
Speaker 1: And when the judge says, I'm not putting my finger

509
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 1: on the scale, which would tip the scales of justice,

510
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 1: basically calling for one outcome guilty or the other not

511
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,240
Speaker 1: guilty by tipping.

512
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 2: The scales of justice.

513
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: Is it true, Harmonia Rodriguez, that the defense has already

514
00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:45,240
Speaker 1: been giving Carte Blanche a million dollar defense. They've already

515
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,840
Speaker 1: been given a million dollars out of my wallet.

516
00:29:49,280 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 11: That's correct. This case is going to be really expensive

517
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 11: for the state, and because it's a death penalty case,

518
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,240
Speaker 11: the state can attribute lots and lots of money for

519
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:01,280
Speaker 11: the defendant to get the best of defense possible. And

520
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 11: it doesn't have to be a public defender from the county.

521
00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 11: It can be a prominent, fancy lawyer like the one

522
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 11: they have obtained. Her name is Catherine Nestor. And yes,

523
00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 11: reports are saying that this game is I believe it's both.

524
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:17,360
Speaker 11: And then the defense will cost the state of Utah

525
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:19,680
Speaker 11: as much as a million dollars.

526
00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 13: As Utah County prepares for a high profile trial. They

527
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 13: are awarded a million dollars of taxpayer money to fund

528
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:29,200
Speaker 13: Robinson's defense. The county hires three attorneys on Robinson's behalf.

529
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 13: The team led by Catherine Nester of Nestor Lewis and

530
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,520
Speaker 13: Salt Lake City. Nestor earned her law degree at the

531
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 13: University of Texas and has more than thirty three years

532
00:30:37,120 --> 00:30:40,680
Speaker 13: of defense experience, working in both Salt Lake and San

533
00:30:40,720 --> 00:30:43,239
Speaker 13: Diego as a public defender.

534
00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,320
Speaker 2: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.

535
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,040
Speaker 7: I heard the gunshot go off, and that was when

536
00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 7: I started hearing a legend started trying and streaming to

537
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 7: get down.

538
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:04,120
Speaker 2: I was clarified.

539
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:08,000
Speaker 3: The man who allegedly shot Charlie Kirk, twenty two year

540
00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 3: old Utah resident Tyler Robinson.

541
00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 1: I'm getting bombarded right now with conspiracy theories.

542
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: Okay, so I say.

543
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,680
Speaker 1: Stop the conspiracy theories, and now they're pouring in like mad.

544
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 2: I want to take.

545
00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: A look at the shooting suspect, the Charlie Kirk shooting

546
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: suspect Robinson on body cam.

547
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: Let's see what we can learn watch this. You guys

548
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,239
Speaker 2: have a couple of different versions about what happened. So

549
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,320
Speaker 2: we have a. We had a third party witness that

550
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:36,360
Speaker 2: watch the entire theme.

551
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 6: I'm just trying to clarify your guys story a little bit.

552
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:47,920
Speaker 12: So you're heading from that right most through lane through.

553
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,240
Speaker 5: The intersection with cash.

554
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:51,600
Speaker 8: Maybe a second or so before I reached the intersection,

555
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:53,000
Speaker 8: the light changed yellowf.

556
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:54,960
Speaker 3: Okay, you remember looking at the lights.

557
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:56,920
Speaker 6: Yeah, I was looking off at the light just before

558
00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:57,480
Speaker 6: getting there.

559
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 1: The main thing I see right there is it looks

560
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:03,360
Speaker 1: just like he did in the video after the shooting

561
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: and before the shooting where he's wearing the sunglasses and

562
00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: the hat. Here's some more body campist watch.

563
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 6: So people on the side of you were slowing down

564
00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:12,720
Speaker 6: to a stop.

565
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 2: Right, I've seeing someone was slowing down, and I wondered

566
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:21,040
Speaker 2: why they had slown so much.

567
00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,800
Speaker 12: Okay, why did you do they were slowing down?

568
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:29,280
Speaker 11: I'm not sure, Okay, because I was turning red.

569
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,480
Speaker 13: Well, I was slow, like close up to the light

570
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 13: that I would be like I would end.

571
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,160
Speaker 4: Up in the intersection and quitely trying to break from

572
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 4: that speed.

573
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 1: Okay, Okay, let's go straight out to Tracy Brown, joining

574
00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:46,320
Speaker 1: US body language expert and author of How to Detect Lies. Tracy,

575
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:49,360
Speaker 1: I'm just looking at his body language and his demeanor

576
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:51,800
Speaker 1: with the LA law enforcement.

577
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 2: What do you make of it? If anything?

578
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,120
Speaker 4: I watched the whole video, the whole hour long footage,

579
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 4: and here's what's different between him and everyone else there,

580
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:02,600
Speaker 4: because you got to ask yourself, what do you see

581
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 4: and what's missing? And what's missing is two things. One nervousness,

582
00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 4: so he may not have a.

583
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:14,560
Speaker 2: Response to trauma.

584
00:33:14,640 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 4: And that can indicate like that, that can lead someone

585
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:18,440
Speaker 4: to think.

586
00:33:18,440 --> 00:33:21,640
Speaker 2: That, you know, what he allegedly did was okay.

587
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 4: Everyone else, his brother, his mom, the guy in the

588
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:33,720
Speaker 4: car that he hit, showed signs of anxiety, fidgeting, wiping

589
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 4: or touching your face, touching your neck, playing.

590
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 2: With your hair.

591
00:33:38,160 --> 00:33:41,680
Speaker 4: He doesn't show anything. He keeps his hands in his pockets,

592
00:33:41,720 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 4: actually puts his thumbs in his pockets, which is framing

593
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:50,400
Speaker 4: his manhood there, and it's different from everyone else.

594
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,520
Speaker 1: Put her up, plays Tray Saint Brown. What do you

595
00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 1: mean by putting his thumbs in his pocket? Says quote

596
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 1: framing his manhood? I feel like I'm reading a nineteen

597
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,880
Speaker 1: sixty nine romance novel, framing his manhood.

598
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 2: Who said that I'm trying to be I'm trying to be.

599
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:12,439
Speaker 4: I'm trying to be It's the same moves that I've

600
00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,800
Speaker 4: seen when I've done reads on Justin Bieber. It's showing

601
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 4: how powerful he is, and it's uh, it's it's allude.

602
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,320
Speaker 1: Made my pointing to his crotch to put it mildly,

603
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,920
Speaker 1: that's what I mean. Okay, all right, like those guys

604
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:29,240
Speaker 1: that are always grabbing themselves.

605
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,560
Speaker 2: I didn't know that meant anything. Okay, go ahead. Yeah,

606
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:32,880
Speaker 2: it's a.

607
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,720
Speaker 4: Power play, is what it is. And so he's different.

608
00:34:36,800 --> 00:34:38,040
Speaker 2: He thought it was awkward.

609
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,680
Speaker 4: Well, okay, so let's let's put him in the situation.

610
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,279
Speaker 4: Standing on the corner when your car is sitting in

611
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 4: front of you wrecked and the police have showed up

612
00:34:47,600 --> 00:34:49,160
Speaker 4: and you don't know how you're getting a ride home

613
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:52,640
Speaker 4: is awkward. So we got to give him that. He

614
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,720
Speaker 4: doesn't show the same level of effect that everyone else

615
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 4: involved does, and he also shows a bit of a

616
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 4: lack of awareness of the situation and what really happened.

617
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 4: That last part is a little more understandable, but this

618
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 4: shows I think it indicates how he is with law

619
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 4: enforcement and.

620
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: Concern for those around him, in effect.

621
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,760
Speaker 4: At a very very intense situation.

622
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,640
Speaker 2: You know, it's really interesting that you.

623
00:35:26,920 --> 00:35:33,840
Speaker 1: Interpret his behavior in that manner because, believe it or not, Tracy,

624
00:35:34,239 --> 00:35:38,120
Speaker 1: that is what other experts are saying regarding his behavior

625
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:44,239
Speaker 1: right after the shooting. You're in lockstep. You're dovetailing with

626
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:47,719
Speaker 1: what other experts have said about his demeanor right after

627
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 1: the shooting.

628
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:48,640
Speaker 2: Listen.

629
00:35:49,120 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 3: Experts ay Robinson's behavior after the shooting indicates he did

630
00:35:52,680 --> 00:35:55,720
Speaker 3: not have a solid plan to avoid capture. Former FBI

631
00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,280
Speaker 3: agent Michael Tabman believes Robinson likely struggled with the gravity

632
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,920
Speaker 3: of his actions, leading to disorientation and confusion after the shooting.

633
00:36:03,239 --> 00:36:06,319
Speaker 3: Davin says Robinson had likely come to terms of being

634
00:36:06,360 --> 00:36:09,400
Speaker 3: caught and did not plan for what happened. After taking

635
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 3: the shot. Robinson waited in or in four hours trying

636
00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,439
Speaker 3: to recover his grandfather's mouser, and reportedly had a run

637
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 3: in with police on UVU campus that evening as he

638
00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 3: made a move to get to the gun.

639
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm not really buying into everything our investigative reporter

640
00:36:26,560 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: just said, such as he had confusion because he left

641
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,760
Speaker 1: the scene, he changed clothes, he lay in wait trying

642
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:38,720
Speaker 1: to get his grandpa's long gun back. That doesn't sound

643
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:41,879
Speaker 1: confused at all to me. Because he knew that that

644
00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,480
Speaker 1: gun would be traced right back to his grandpa and

645
00:36:44,480 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: it had been gifted to him.

646
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: In fact, isn't it true?

647
00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,880
Speaker 1: Harmonia Rodriguez Daily Mail that his bio dad, his father,

648
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,960
Speaker 1: Robinson's father, kept saying, send me a picture of your

649
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,800
Speaker 1: grandpa's gun, Send me a picture, and he couldn't because

650
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:03,560
Speaker 1: it was confiscated by police. So he knew that gun

651
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:05,839
Speaker 1: would connect directly to him.

652
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:09,760
Speaker 2: That's not confused. That's kind of smart.

653
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:12,680
Speaker 11: That's right, And that's a very important part of his

654
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:17,160
Speaker 11: conversations with his romantic partner and roommates where he seems

655
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,439
Speaker 11: the most thinking about the rifle and trying to get

656
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:25,040
Speaker 11: it back. So he does mention that he's unsure whether

657
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 11: the rifle will have a serial number and be traced

658
00:37:28,320 --> 00:37:30,600
Speaker 11: back to him because it's an old weapon. It is

659
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 11: his grandfather's. Thousand percent in those messages that we have

660
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 11: seen with his romantic interest, Tyler Robinson was hyper focused

661
00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,320
Speaker 11: in getting that rifle and he knew it was the

662
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,520
Speaker 11: major thing tying him to the crime, and that's why

663
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 11: he remained in the area trying to retrieve it.

664
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,120
Speaker 2: Well, I guess you know, it's a sneaky FBI.

665
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: According to Cannie Owens, again they knew not only that

666
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,960
Speaker 1: the murder weapon belonged to Tyler Robinson had been given

667
00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,720
Speaker 1: to him by his grandpa, but also in those texts.

668
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: This completely belies any claim that he was confused. He

669
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: says to the roommate and texts, hey, go drop what

670
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:14,400
Speaker 1: you're doing.

671
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 2: His words are not mine.

672
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: Go under my keyboard, to my computer and get rid

673
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,880
Speaker 1: of this piece of paper that says, hey, I'm going

674
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:25,799
Speaker 1: to have a chance to shoot Charlie Kirk and I'm

675
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:28,800
Speaker 1: going to take it. So I guess the FBI either

676
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,399
Speaker 1: planted that under his computer and then texted about it.

677
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:38,640
Speaker 1: My point was just total complete bs. But my point

678
00:38:38,760 --> 00:38:42,919
Speaker 1: is here that he is by far from confused. Would

679
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,440
Speaker 1: you agree, Hermania Rodriguez.

680
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 11: Yeah, that's another way that we know he planned this attack,

681
00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:53,680
Speaker 11: because after he did it, he had we know that

682
00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:56,160
Speaker 11: he had left something in the apartment for the roommate

683
00:38:56,239 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 11: to find. Right after the shooting, they contact the roommate

684
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,520
Speaker 11: and say, hey, chetguns are the keyboard. So there's more

685
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:06,360
Speaker 11: premeditation plan right obviously.

686
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:09,920
Speaker 1: And speaking of the long gun, Tracy Brown and any

687
00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: Year saying he didn't seem to understand the gravity or

688
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: he couldn't take in the gravity of the car crash,

689
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: and he was acting really cavalier and casual guy in

690
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:24,600
Speaker 1: front of the police that responded.

691
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:24,880
Speaker 2: To the crash.

692
00:39:25,080 --> 00:39:31,279
Speaker 1: But here and after the shooting, we actually see him

693
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:33,080
Speaker 1: and this is thanks to Candae Owens.

694
00:39:33,120 --> 00:39:35,719
Speaker 2: She came up with this dq Jairy Queen photo of

695
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:37,480
Speaker 2: him hanging around in the area.

696
00:39:38,200 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 1: You know, he wanted to leave the area, but he

697
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,320
Speaker 1: wanted to go and retrieve the long gun.

698
00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:46,040
Speaker 2: It's like he doesn't understand.

699
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:49,000
Speaker 1: He was more worried, you know that his dad was

700
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:51,360
Speaker 1: going to get mad about the long gun.

701
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 2: That's what he was upset about.

702
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: He didn't seem to understand the gravity that he just

703
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:58,760
Speaker 1: murdered someone, according to police.

704
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,400
Speaker 2: A shot from Candie Owens. What about it, Tracy, Well.

705
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:04,960
Speaker 4: The way you do anything is the way you do everything.

706
00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:10,320
Speaker 4: So I am not surprised that he was aloof about

707
00:40:10,640 --> 00:40:13,680
Speaker 4: the situation that he had just created, like in killing someone.

708
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:16,120
Speaker 2: It's the same way that he handled the car wreck.

709
00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 4: So not surprised, and yeah, this is this is how

710
00:40:21,560 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 4: he does things.

711
00:40:23,360 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: Yeah.

712
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: But but Tracy Brown, I hear what you're saying, and

713
00:40:26,120 --> 00:40:28,400
Speaker 1: I want to follow up on that with our shrink

714
00:40:28,480 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: forensics psychologist Alison Paganelli joining us in the Atlanta jurisdiction.

715
00:40:35,239 --> 00:40:40,000
Speaker 1: Disconnected to what you've done. I see that all the

716
00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:45,920
Speaker 1: time in killers because people aren't real to them their objects.

717
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:49,680
Speaker 1: They don't feel human empathy toward their victim or the

718
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:56,040
Speaker 1: victim's family. So being disconnected does not rise to legal

719
00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,640
Speaker 1: insanity that you don't know right from wrong at the

720
00:40:58,640 --> 00:40:59,960
Speaker 1: time of the incident, does it.

721
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:06,040
Speaker 10: It does not, in fact, any sort of mental condition

722
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 10: that is just based on a pattern of criminal behavior

723
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,600
Speaker 10: or antisocial traits, lack of empathy would not qualify for

724
00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,160
Speaker 10: even the first step of an insanity defense.

725
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: Just released dispatch audio has only poured fuel on the flame.

726
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,440
Speaker 6: Listen, Gorge, can we just add a front for the

727
00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:39,359
Speaker 6: case documenting that there was an.

728
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,359
Speaker 2: Officer in hospital would come stage in the.

729
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:39,600
Speaker 10: Emergency or in bank.

730
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,600
Speaker 1: This from at Hustle bitch on X straight out to

731
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:49,200
Speaker 1: Sydney Sumner joining US Crime Stories investigative reporter. Apparently the

732
00:41:49,239 --> 00:41:54,239
Speaker 1: original death certificate was signed by a doctor at the hospital.

733
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:58,680
Speaker 1: Remember Kirk was taken straight to the hospital, and so

734
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:02,319
Speaker 1: that is where the death certificate came from. The death

735
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,440
Speaker 1: certificate isn't that right so far our city's owner.

736
00:42:05,760 --> 00:42:08,240
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, straight out.

737
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:12,480
Speaker 1: To especial guests joining us now, doctor Priabenergy Board Certify

738
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:19,600
Speaker 1: forensic pathologist, anatomic pathologist with anchor forensic Pathology consulting, Doctor Priya,

739
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:21,760
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being with us, doctor Priya.

740
00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: While the death certificate may have been issued at the hospital,

741
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:32,120
Speaker 1: that does not preclude Kirk's body being sent for autopsy,

742
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:32,799
Speaker 1: does it?

743
00:42:33,280 --> 00:42:33,480
Speaker 6: Oh?

744
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 14: Not at all, Not at all. First of all, I

745
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:41,800
Speaker 14: would say that anytime there's trauma involved, a regular doctor,

746
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:44,520
Speaker 14: even an er doctors signed the death certificate, so that

747
00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,440
Speaker 14: death certificate is null and void. They're not, They're not

748
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:49,680
Speaker 14: legally allowed.

749
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 2: To do that.

750
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 14: So what will happen is that you'll go for an

751
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:56,960
Speaker 14: autopsy even if the cause of death is somewhat obvious.

752
00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 14: But we really need to document was injured, you know,

753
00:43:01,680 --> 00:43:04,120
Speaker 14: do it systematically and an issue a death certificate.

754
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:08,680
Speaker 1: Harmonia Rodriguez joining US CHIEFUS reporter dailymail dot com. As

755
00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: of tonight, has the autopsy report the official COEOD cause

756
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:14,560
Speaker 1: of death being released.

757
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 11: No, we have not seen an autopsy report, and that has,

758
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,960
Speaker 11: as you said, fueled further speculation.

759
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: Back to doctor preamenergy joining as a forensic pathologist, doctor Prea.

760
00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,520
Speaker 2: A slowdown in the release.

761
00:43:32,239 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: Of an autopsy report could be due to any number

762
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,920
Speaker 1: of things. You got to wait on toxicology. With all

763
00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:46,440
Speaker 1: of the conspiracy theories floating around out there, I think

764
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:48,880
Speaker 1: many of them will be put to rest once we

765
00:43:49,000 --> 00:43:52,040
Speaker 1: get the official autopsy report.

766
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 2: What do you think is the hold up? Why not

767
00:43:54,280 --> 00:43:54,920
Speaker 2: report yet?

768
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,759
Speaker 14: Well, I think you're absolutely right in that. You know,

769
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:04,280
Speaker 14: even if the autopsy is completed, the exam, the report

770
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:08,239
Speaker 14: is very detailed, there's other studies that need to be done,

771
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:14,480
Speaker 14: like to picology that does not happen overnight. And obviously

772
00:44:14,560 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 14: in any case but a high profile case, we want

773
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 14: to dot our eyes, cross our teeth. So I don't

774
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:23,959
Speaker 14: know if there's any special analysis being done. But there's

775
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:27,879
Speaker 14: also like different rules state to state. I mean, you know,

776
00:44:27,960 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 14: there could be legal issues where you would be able

777
00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 14: to time in more of an eye as to why

778
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 14: the report may not even be released, especially with an

779
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:37,560
Speaker 14: ongoing investigation.

780
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it could be any number of reasons.

781
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:43,000
Speaker 1: But now the conspiracy theorists are claiming the government will

782
00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 1: use their own doctors.

783
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:45,359
Speaker 2: To affect a cover up.

784
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:52,760
Speaker 1: The theories even go as far as attacking Charlie Kirk's widow,

785
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:56,640
Speaker 1: the mother of his children, is not I mean from

786
00:44:56,680 --> 00:45:03,400
Speaker 1: conspiracy theorists. As you will recall, at his memorial, Erica

787
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 1: Kirk raced up and I love you sign Now that

788
00:45:07,680 --> 00:45:11,320
Speaker 1: is being twisted around to claim that she is actually

789
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: putting up the devil's horns. The video you're seeing right

790
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 1: there is from turning point, But anyone familiar with sign

791
00:45:19,480 --> 00:45:26,040
Speaker 1: language knows hi, I love you, that's what she's doing.

792
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:33,600
Speaker 1: I love you abbreviated. They won't even leave his widow alone.

793
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:39,600
Speaker 1: We are also learning that, speaking of Erica Kirk to

794
00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:46,600
Speaker 1: Sidney Sumner, are there also theories that Prime Minister Benjamin

795
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: Netanyahoo ordered the hint and that Erica is actually in

796
00:45:51,360 --> 00:45:54,439
Speaker 1: an Israeli spy named Honeypot.

797
00:45:55,160 --> 00:45:59,600
Speaker 6: Yes. Unfortunately, that is a rumor that is going around

798
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:06,200
Speaker 6: that just gets a whoa really reaction from me personally.

799
00:46:06,840 --> 00:46:10,359
Speaker 6: So the rumor is that Charlie Kirk, who has been

800
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:15,000
Speaker 6: vocal in his support of Israel, was kind of coming

801
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 6: to a point that he was no longer going to

802
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:20,480
Speaker 6: be offering them his support in this conflict.

803
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 1: So, okay, you know what, I'm just going to stop

804
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: you right there. I'm just going to stop you right there.

805
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:26,480
Speaker 1: I don't want to add fuel to the flying

806
00:46:27,440 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 2: Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,