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Speaker 1: M podcasts. This is Robert Evans and that was the

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Speaker 1: introduction from Behind the Bastards, which is a podcast, which

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Speaker 1: is why I said the word podcasts. Today with me

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Speaker 1: in the room that is a digital room and not

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Speaker 1: a physical room because of the plague. Is Mr Billy

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Speaker 1: Wayne Davis. Everybody, Hey, Billy, how are you doing? How's

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Speaker 1: your quarantine going? It's doing pretty good exercising. Yeah. When

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Speaker 1: I saw you last over Skype, you look like normal Billy,

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Speaker 1: and then suddenly this week you have a mustache and

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Speaker 1: a headband. It's coming together. It's been an interesting quarantine

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Speaker 1: week for you. I'm embracing it. You've got a cookery now,

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Speaker 1: which is a special type of curb Nepalese blade very nice.

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Speaker 1: I want to the Gerber to see if I liked it,

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Speaker 1: and then now I'm gonna get into Apoll and get

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Speaker 1: one proper. Yeah, I have a Nepalese blade smith that

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Speaker 1: I can point you towards. This is a podcast about

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Speaker 1: the worst pill in all of history. And Billy, you

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Speaker 1: and I have developed a couple of different niches for ourselves.

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Speaker 1: We're we're we have a lot of niches. One of

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Speaker 1: those niches is medical scammers. And this is not a

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Speaker 1: medical scammer episode because our other niche is weirdos from

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Speaker 1: the South. Today, we're going to talk about one of

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Speaker 1: the South's great, all time famous weirdo bastards, Billy Wayne Davis.

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Speaker 1: What do you know about Jim Booie? I know the name,

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Speaker 1: Do you know what I mean? Like growing up in

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Speaker 1: the South, You're just like, yeah, you hear it. I

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Speaker 1: don't know what he There's like, I don't know exactly

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Speaker 1: what you did. You've probably heard of I'm gonna guess

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Speaker 1: everybody listening to this has at least heard of a

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Speaker 1: bowie knife, which is a great kind of knife, one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite knives. It's basically a small sword that

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Speaker 1: is a dagger because we call it one instead of

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Speaker 1: a small sword. UM, with a specific kind of curved

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Speaker 1: in point to the top of the blade. And it's

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Speaker 1: it's great for it was initially It's great for hunting

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Speaker 1: and skinning animals, and it's also great for waving around

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Speaker 1: drunkenly at a house party if you're me and nineteen

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Speaker 1: years old. Um. The one thing I am about him

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Speaker 1: is the the giant mutton had the horrifying facial hair.

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Speaker 1: He had gigantic mutton chops and he died at the Alumo.

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Speaker 1: Now I was I was a Texas boy. So in

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Speaker 1: in Texas school, you have a special class called Texas History,

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Speaker 1: and every Texas kid learns a lot about Jim Booie

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Speaker 1: and it's all wrong because they only teaches about Jim

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Speaker 1: Booie at Texas School. I know who Jim Bowie. Yes, yeah,

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Speaker 1: yes I do. I just came back. It froze and

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Speaker 1: everything came back, and then you said the Alumo and

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Speaker 1: I was like immediately on his motherfucker's Yes. Yeah, So

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Speaker 1: Jim Booie is a giant piece of ship because this

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Speaker 1: is my show. But he's also like a frontier legend,

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Speaker 1: like he's one of those he's like David Crockett Um

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Speaker 1: or like wild Bill Hickock, like he's one of those

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Speaker 1: like wild West legends. So this is gonna be a

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Speaker 1: hoot of a tale. Um And yeah, let's just get

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Speaker 1: into it. So h James Bowie Um was born on

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Speaker 1: March tenth, uh in Logan County, Kentucky, in seventeen nineties six,

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Speaker 1: probably because again in Kentucky in seventeen ninety six, nobody

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Speaker 1: was super good at like birth certificates and the like. Um,

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Speaker 1: but that's that's a good guess as to when he

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Speaker 1: was born three or four days ago. Yeah, yeah, he

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Speaker 1: came into the world sometime round round about. Then it

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Speaker 1: was the year when we had that big flood on

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Speaker 1: the river. Yeah, that's kind of how people talked about

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Speaker 1: ship like that back then. So yeah, his brother gives

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Speaker 1: March ten six is as James Bowie's birthdays. Older brother

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Speaker 1: John gives that as the birthdate. And uh, John is

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Speaker 1: kind of the source of a lot of our information

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Speaker 1: on Jim Bowie's early life. But John and every other

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Speaker 1: member of the Bowie family are liars and unreliable narrators.

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Speaker 1: So it's really we really take this all with a

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Speaker 1: grain of salt. I know people like that and they

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Speaker 1: tell you that liars do it. Hey, now I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: tell you the story. But keep in mind, I make

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Speaker 1: a lot of stuff up. Keep in mind, what would

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Speaker 1: the moonshine? I can't keep much much together about my

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Speaker 1: own back story. Yeah, the Booe families a bit like that,

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Speaker 1: and they have financial motives for telling a bunch of

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Speaker 1: saying a bunch of fun ship about Jim Bullie. But

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Speaker 1: I don't think they have much in the way of

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Speaker 1: financial motives about lying about his birthdates. That's probably more

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Speaker 1: or less accurate, at least as well as they could

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Speaker 1: remember it. So uh Jim was the ninth of ten

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Speaker 1: children born to Resin, which I think was just sort

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Speaker 1: of so basically our easy I n is how his

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Speaker 1: dad's first name was spelled, and it was supposed to

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Speaker 1: be Reason, but they weren't great at spelling in Kentucky

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Speaker 1: back in the seventeen hundreds, so they wrote it out

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Speaker 1: as Resin Um. So he was this Yeah, you know what,

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Speaker 1: not bad for modern Kentucky spelling they're doing right, You

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Speaker 1: get the gist of it. So, yeah, he was the

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Speaker 1: son of Resin Boo and uh An Elvy Booi and

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Speaker 1: his parents came to the United States as part of

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Speaker 1: a massive Scottish migration across Appalachia and into the Old

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Speaker 1: South Old South. The Booey family were basically the archetypal

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Speaker 1: early White Americans pioneers down to the core of their marrow.

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Speaker 1: Resin had a habit of moving on to wild land

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Speaker 1: in the frontier, developing it by building homes and orchards

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Speaker 1: and stuff, and then when other people would come in

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Speaker 1: and move in around him. He would get angry because

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Speaker 1: he didn't like being around other people. He wanted to

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Speaker 1: be out in the middle of nowhere, and so he

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Speaker 1: moved somewhere else and start building a homestead again until

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Speaker 1: civilization or whatever caught up with him. This was kind

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Speaker 1: of like how Jim Bowie's dad liked to live first

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Speaker 1: house slipper. Yeah, yeah, that's kind of what he's doing.

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Speaker 1: He's like gentrifying. Yeah, he's like he's basically gentrifying, like

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Speaker 1: the woods. Yeah yeah, but then he hates it and

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Speaker 1: he's got it. Like, yeah, you could call them early hipsters.

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Speaker 1: But instead of like you know, enjoying artists lofts and

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Speaker 1: uh artisanal coffee houses, he liked fighting bears with machetes. Um,

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Speaker 1: every time I see alize of place, these people shut up.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of resins attitude. So the point of making

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Speaker 1: is he he wasn't just going about this like make

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Speaker 1: a home and a living for himself and his family,

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Speaker 1: like he needed to be at the bleeding edge of

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Speaker 1: the frontier. And so Jim Booie's early life as a

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Speaker 1: child consisted of many moves. You know, they'd spend a

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Speaker 1: couple of years somewhere, and then his father would grow

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Speaker 1: frustrated by the fact that there were human beings within

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Speaker 1: a half mile of them, and so they'd move somewhere else. Liked.

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Speaker 1: I realized, like these people, there's a there's a level

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Speaker 1: of even though all these people are spoilers, slave owners

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Speaker 1: and colonizers and monsters, there's a level of respect you

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Speaker 1: have to have to anyone who is like, there's people

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Speaker 1: within a mile of me, I'm gonna go move out

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Speaker 1: to the middle of nowhere with an hatchet and build

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Speaker 1: another home, like like they're they're tough, is Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: just keep thinking, I'm like, I'm not as stubborn as

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Speaker 1: I thought. There there's there's a TikTok r. That's that's

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Speaker 1: that's like where the wife comes in, it's like, honey,

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Speaker 1: we have to move. The neighbor said, hi, and that's

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Speaker 1: these people. Yeah, yeah, that's resin Booie friends, Billy, what

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Speaker 1: were you saying? I'm gonna call you booeye a couple

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Speaker 1: of times and as I'm certain I like it, I

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Speaker 1: don't remember, Oh good, fantastic. Well, uh yeah. So now

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Speaker 1: the Booie family, when Jim was young, tended to live

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Speaker 1: all the spots they pick. We're along the Mississippi River,

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Speaker 1: and they basically moved down the Mississippi as like people

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Speaker 1: filled up the area above them. UM and moving dot

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Speaker 1: day for the Booey family meant they would build by

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Speaker 1: hand a flat bottom boat, toss all of their ship

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Speaker 1: onto it, and then sail down the Mississippi to find

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Speaker 1: a new place to live. So that's what. That's what

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Speaker 1: like the U haul of the day is, Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: just wake up here. Ship Dad's boat. Dad's making a boat.

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Speaker 1: God damn it. Yeah. Now Will Jim Bowie's first memories

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Speaker 1: probably would have been in the Twapay Township in what

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Speaker 1: is now Missouri uh and what was then still under

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Speaker 1: French control and part of their new Madrid district now.

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Speaker 1: The name Twapati came from the original inhabitants of the land,

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Speaker 1: the Apple Creek band of the Shawnee tribe. They'd been

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Speaker 1: forced out by white men via unspeakable violence and disease,

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Speaker 1: and young Jim would go on to spend much of

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Speaker 1: his childhood playing in camps that they had abandoned all

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Speaker 1: throughout the forests and swamps around Twapty Township. UM. Now.

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Speaker 1: His earliest memories from age four to six would have

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Speaker 1: been pretty relaxed. Bowie family children weren't expected to work

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Speaker 1: much at that age, and Jim would have spent much

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Speaker 1: of his time relatively unsupervised in the middle of the woods. Um.

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Speaker 1: The Booey men were in general uh given to spending

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Speaker 1: a lot of time alone in the middle of nowhere.

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Speaker 1: Jim's formal education would have been basically non existent. His

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Speaker 1: mother Elvi, taught her children the alphabet, but that was

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Speaker 1: about all she knew, so that was about all they learned. Um.

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Speaker 1: After two years in Twopity, it got too developed for

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Speaker 1: resident and the family moved now. During this time, much

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Speaker 1: of the southeast was still run and owned by France,

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Speaker 1: and the French government saw Americans as an ally in

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Speaker 1: their endless, bloody war against English people, which is the

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Speaker 1: only war that really matters in my opinion. That's that's yeah. Now,

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Speaker 1: they were happy to allow Americans to settle in the

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Speaker 1: Louisiana territory, and they offered generous terms on land grants

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Speaker 1: for them to do so. The Bowie family kept moving south,

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Speaker 1: and by eighteen twelve they'd staked out a claim on

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Speaker 1: buyou vermillion in the Atta Kappas parish just south of

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Speaker 1: opelousas Uh. They got into the timber cutting business, and

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Speaker 1: by now Jim was coming up into a young adult,

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Speaker 1: so he was able to help the family business, as

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Speaker 1: did all of his many brothers. The Bowie boys were close,

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Speaker 1: and for most of his life, Jim Bowie's primary business

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Speaker 1: partners would be his kin. He was raised with a

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Speaker 1: love of exploration and constant motion, as well as an

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Speaker 1: abiding appreciation for owning enslaved human beings. His grandfather had

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Speaker 1: owned people, as had his father. The Bowies weren't but

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Speaker 1: they did not and did not have large fields full

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Speaker 1: of enslaved people, but they kept small families of field

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Speaker 1: hands enslave to help them with their work. And I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna read a quote now from the book Three Roads

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Speaker 1: to the Alamo that describes sort of how slavery was

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Speaker 1: practiced within the Bowie family. It's gonna sound like it's

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Speaker 1: making a different point than it is at first, but

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Speaker 1: just just listen to the whole quote. Typically, for land

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Speaker 1: owned by small farmer slaveholders, Bowie plantations enjoyed benign, even

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Speaker 1: familial relations between blacks and whites. They certainly wore for

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Speaker 1: where for Uncle Reza, who never married, but who fathered

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Speaker 1: a son named James by a slave mistress around sometime

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Speaker 1: around seventeen ninety, and thereafter openly acknowledged him, gave him

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Speaker 1: his freedom and the family name, and brought him to

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Speaker 1: Louisiana with the rest of the clan. The Black James

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Speaker 1: Bowie remained in cattle cata Hula while the rest moved south.

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Speaker 1: For years to come, he steadily did land and loan

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Speaker 1: business with both John Senior and Junior, even buying and

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Speaker 1: selling slaves himself, and achieved some minor position in the

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Speaker 1: community near Sicily Island, wherever Bowie blood flowed, clanned loyalty followed.

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Speaker 1: In later years, the family were remembered well stories of

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Speaker 1: resins Young Uh, stories of resins Young James's closeness to

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Speaker 1: an old slave woman named Mandy, of the little kindnesses

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Speaker 1: he did for her, and of the advice she passed

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Speaker 1: on to the boy. There was never any question that

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Speaker 1: the Buoye slaves were property, though, and with the exception

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Speaker 1: of a few favorites like old Mandy, they were usually

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Speaker 1: sold with the land whenever a buoy moved on. So

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Speaker 1: you've got a really complicated relationship with slaves here. To

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Speaker 1: the point where some of the Boweymen have children, um

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Speaker 1: with with their slaves, and those children are seen as

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Speaker 1: Buoy's and are generally live lives as freed people. Um.

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Speaker 1: And you have like certain older slaves that are beloved

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Speaker 1: and considered almost a part of the family, but also

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Speaker 1: almost um includes a lot of wiggle room. And as

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Speaker 1: much as the Buoys pretended to have familiar relations with

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Speaker 1: their slaves, they sold them, um whenever they would move,

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Speaker 1: because these people were in the end property to them.

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Speaker 1: And this is kind of like, this is a pretty

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Speaker 1: normal sort of master slave relationship to exist in the

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Speaker 1: era at the time with among people who are moving

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Speaker 1: a lot like we don't we mainly talk about sort

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Speaker 1: of the old plantation system, but that hadn't really gotten

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Speaker 1: going in a big way at this point. Um. And yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's kind of how the Booey family dealt with slavery. Um.

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Speaker 1: It's it's yeah, I don't know, it's weird, it sucks,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, it was bad. It's just it's very clear

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Speaker 1: they've viewed them as livestock. They've used that's it's it's

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Speaker 1: it's more messed up than even just that though, because

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Speaker 1: you know, the buoys were a close knit family. You

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Speaker 1: had a lot of different uncles and brothers all living

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Speaker 1: together with their families, and when one of them would

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Speaker 1: make another human being with a slave, that that person

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Speaker 1: was considered to be a buoy and a member of

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Speaker 1: the family. Um, but that person's black cousins and and

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Speaker 1: and you know, half brothers and stuff would be sold

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Speaker 1: off as property. So it's this it's really kind of

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Speaker 1: weird to wrap your head around. I don't even know.

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Speaker 1: I can't even really get into the head of the

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Speaker 1: people who would comfortably do that, who could like recognize that, like, well,

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Speaker 1: this one's got my blood, so he's family, and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna treat him like family. But these other people who

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Speaker 1: have are related to him, but not to me. I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna sell like a dishwasher. It's really strange. It's

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Speaker 1: such a weird flip of the coin in their head

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Speaker 1: where they've made this is the line for us. It's bizarre. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's hard for me to get my head around in anyway.

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Speaker 1: And I should note here that because I my longtime

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Speaker 1: co worker uh is Sore and Bowie, I'm going to

254
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Speaker 1: regularly pronounce the Bowie name in a number of different ways,

255
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Speaker 1: and it's going to frustrate people and they can just

256
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Speaker 1: they can just deal with it. Yeah, deal with it people. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's just gonna happen. Sorry. Yeah, So the Bowie family

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Speaker 1: patriarch had to kill other human beings at least once

259
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Speaker 1: while the Bowie boys were children. When the family moved

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Speaker 1: to Louisiana, they found squatters on their land. A disagreement

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Speaker 1: in suit, and Resin killed one of the squatters. He

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Speaker 1: was jail. Yeah, yeah, and this was not uncommon because, like,

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Speaker 1: land ownership was kind of a murky idea back then,

264
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Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, so was the idea of squatting too,

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Speaker 1: where you're just say in court you're not you're yeah,

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Speaker 1: you're not gonna see me in court. I'm just gonna

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Speaker 1: shoot ye right now. Yeah. So Residin killed one of

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Speaker 1: these squatters and like it went to trial and he

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Speaker 1: got jailed in the wake of the fight while they

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Speaker 1: were waiting for a trial, and his wife actually got

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Speaker 1: a bunch of guns together and one of her slaves

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Speaker 1: and busted him out of jail. So this would have

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Speaker 1: been a pretty early memory of Jim's Booie is his

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Speaker 1: like mom and one of their slaves busting their dad

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Speaker 1: out of jail for murdering a guy. Um, yeah, so

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Speaker 1: that's cool. That's that's that that puts an imprint on

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Speaker 1: your foundation as a person. I think, yeah, that the

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Speaker 1: law is something that you can manipulate via having enough guns.

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Speaker 1: I think would have been yeah. Yeah. So Jim's their

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Speaker 1: brother also named Resin, left home to go have dangerous

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Speaker 1: adventures when he was about nineteen, and this was desperately

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Speaker 1: hard for young Jim because he was very close to

283
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Speaker 1: his brother. A few years later, when the War of

284
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Speaker 1: eighteen twelve came to Louisiana, Jim was finally old enough

285
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Speaker 1: to follow Resin when he enlisted. Uh James, another one

286
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Speaker 1: of the Bowie brothers, described Resin Jr. As a perfect

287
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Speaker 1: rowdy and Jim hisself was noted to be even wilder

288
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Speaker 1: and even less thoughtful than his older brother. They were

289
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Speaker 1: both very excited for their chance to go off and

290
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Speaker 1: kill English people. Tragically, they arrived too late. The war

291
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Speaker 1: ended without them having to fire a shot. The Bullie

292
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Speaker 1: brothers were still in the militia, though, and they remained

293
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Speaker 1: in it for a couple of months after the battle,

294
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Speaker 1: taking on boring patrol duties and spending their off duty

295
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Speaker 1: time in the city of New Orleans. Somebody, we'll hang

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Speaker 1: out for a couple of moments. Yeah, yeah, that's basically

297
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Speaker 1: what happens. But they don't get a chance to shoot anybody,

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Speaker 1: and they muster out with about twenty one dollars each

299
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Speaker 1: for their troubles. So yeah, that's that's kind of Jim's

300
00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,400
Speaker 1: a man now, like he he doesn't get his chance

301
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:06,160
Speaker 1: to murder anybody, but he's got twenty one dollars in

302
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,960
Speaker 1: his pocket. He's like seventeen years old. That's as much

303
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:12,600
Speaker 1: of an adulthood as you, um, you get at that

304
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Speaker 1: that period in time and his high school graduation and

305
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:18,560
Speaker 1: in New Orleans. That's a good place to be seventeen

306
00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:21,480
Speaker 1: with the pocket full of money. That is a good

307
00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:23,800
Speaker 1: place to be then and now, well no, not now

308
00:16:24,240 --> 00:16:29,640
Speaker 1: because of the coronavirus, but then yeah, yeah. Uh so

309
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,640
Speaker 1: Jim was frustrated at the fact that his war experience

310
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Speaker 1: hadn't ended with him getting to shoot anybody. Um, but

311
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Speaker 1: he also, you know, it was exciting still. You know,

312
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Speaker 1: he got to do some patrols and stuff as part

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Speaker 1: of the militia. He got to get wasted in New

314
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Speaker 1: Orleans and his taste of being out in the world

315
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Speaker 1: made it impossible for him to return home. Um so

316
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:51,680
Speaker 1: he took to the same basic tactic as the men

317
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:53,840
Speaker 1: his father had murdered a couple of years back, and

318
00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:56,760
Speaker 1: started squatting on a patch of land above Bayou Booth

319
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Speaker 1: in Opalosis h James Bowie, Jim's older there, and I'm sorry.

320
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Speaker 1: The Booey names are all very complicated because there's multiple

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Speaker 1: James and multiple Resins and John's. It's very frustrated. We

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00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,439
Speaker 1: forgot what we name the other one. We named him

323
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Speaker 1: the same one. The feeling you get from the Bowie

324
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Speaker 1: brothers names is that they were expecting. The parents were

325
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Speaker 1: expecting most of them to die, and then they didn't

326
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Speaker 1: because the Bowies tended to be pretty tough, and so

327
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Speaker 1: you wind up with a bunch of kids. We have

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Speaker 1: the same fucking name name James. Yeah. We didn't expect

329
00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:31,119
Speaker 1: as many of them would make it eight teen, as

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00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:34,520
Speaker 1: did I'm gonna make a boat. There's people over here,

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Speaker 1: yeah yeah, so. Uh. James Bowie, another one of Jim's

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Speaker 1: another one of Jim Bowie's older brothers, would later describe

333
00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:48,960
Speaker 1: eighteen year old Jim Bowie this way. Quote he was Yeah, sorry,

334
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:52,879
Speaker 1: John Bowie, Jim's older Ye, Jesus, I'm sorry. The booing

335
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,879
Speaker 1: names are so fucking competent. How many siblings does he

336
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,880
Speaker 1: have to? They all have weird he has Tim has Tim?

337
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,120
Speaker 1: Are they all? Jim just sucks? Jim? John Right, there's

338
00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,920
Speaker 1: a couple. There's a resident in there, Yeah, resident Jr.

339
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,760
Speaker 1: It's very frustrating. But Jim Bowie's older brother would later

340
00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:14,080
Speaker 1: describe Jim at eighteen this way quote. He was young, proud, poor,

341
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:17,280
Speaker 1: and ambitious, without any rich family connections or influential fringe

342
00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:19,600
Speaker 1: to aid him in the battle of life. After reaching

343
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,800
Speaker 1: the age of maturity. He was a stout, rather raw

344
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:24,159
Speaker 1: boned man of six ft height, with a hundred and

345
00:18:24,240 --> 00:18:26,239
Speaker 1: eighty pounds, and about as well made as any man

346
00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,160
Speaker 1: I ever saw. His hair was light colored, not quite red.

347
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Speaker 1: His eyes were gray, rather deep set in his head,

348
00:18:31,440 --> 00:18:34,560
Speaker 1: very keen and penetrating in their glance. His complexion was fair,

349
00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:37,600
Speaker 1: his cheekbones rather high. Taken together, he was a manly,

350
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,080
Speaker 1: fine looking person, and by many of the fair ones

351
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,119
Speaker 1: he was called handsome. The fair ones or women he

352
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,800
Speaker 1: was possessed of, and his brother a little bit Yeah,

353
00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,399
Speaker 1: you know, you get the idea that maybe some boowie

354
00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,879
Speaker 1: brothers got up to some some things. They were in

355
00:18:56,040 --> 00:19:00,480
Speaker 1: French country. It wasn't weird good looking brother. I got

356
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:03,960
Speaker 1: some sexy brothers, and I know from sexy brothers. He

357
00:19:04,080 --> 00:19:06,359
Speaker 1: was possessed of an open, frank disposition, with a rather

358
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 1: good temper unless aroused by some insult, when the displays

359
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:12,359
Speaker 1: of his anger were terrible and frequently terminated in some

360
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:15,359
Speaker 1: tragical scene. So he was a friendly guy unless he

361
00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:18,520
Speaker 1: got angry, in which case he got really violent. That

362
00:19:19,080 --> 00:19:21,360
Speaker 1: he had a pretty fair temper unless he made him mad.

363
00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:25,240
Speaker 1: That's what he just said. That's literally what he's saying. Oh,

364
00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:28,480
Speaker 1: I forgot. You just learned the alphabet I forgot. Yeah,

365
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:31,879
Speaker 1: that's your only education. Uh. He was never known to

366
00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,840
Speaker 1: abuse a conquered enemy, or to impose upon the weak

367
00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:37,960
Speaker 1: and defenseless. A man of very strong social feelings. He

368
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:39,760
Speaker 1: loved his friends with all the ardor of youth, and

369
00:19:39,840 --> 00:19:42,080
Speaker 1: hated his enemies and their friends with all the rancor

370
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:44,800
Speaker 1: of the Indian. He was social and playing with all men,

371
00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:46,920
Speaker 1: fond of music and the amusements of the day. It

372
00:19:46,920 --> 00:19:48,920
Speaker 1: would take a glass in a merry mood to drive

373
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,600
Speaker 1: dol caraway, but seldom allowed it to steal away his

374
00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 1: brains or transform him into a beast. This is what

375
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:56,960
Speaker 1: his brother claims, and a lot of it's lies because

376
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,800
Speaker 1: he was a famous drunk um. But yeah, that's that's

377
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:05,680
Speaker 1: that's how his his older brother described him at eighteen UM. Now,

378
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:09,919
Speaker 1: by any accounts, Jim Booie was a pretty good frontiersman. Um.

379
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,120
Speaker 1: He squatted on land, chopped and sold cypress wood, which

380
00:20:13,160 --> 00:20:15,040
Speaker 1: he saw down in the planks, and then floated down

381
00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:17,480
Speaker 1: by the river into town. He also hunted a great

382
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 1: deal uh and his brother John wrote that he developed

383
00:20:20,560 --> 00:20:24,280
Speaker 1: a particularly painful way of hunting bears uh quote. In

384
00:20:24,359 --> 00:20:26,800
Speaker 1: the summer season, when the bears were constantly ravaging little

385
00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,360
Speaker 1: patches of green corn of the early settlers, he adopted

386
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,200
Speaker 1: the following novel plan to entrap them. After finding a

387
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,440
Speaker 1: place where they usually enter the field, he would find

388
00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:36,639
Speaker 1: like a stump, a tree stump that was kind of

389
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,879
Speaker 1: hollow on the inside, and he'd filled the inside of

390
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,479
Speaker 1: the stump with spikes that were facing inward, and then

391
00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:44,960
Speaker 1: he'd pour honey into the stump, and so the bear

392
00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:47,399
Speaker 1: would stick it snout in the stumps. The stump to

393
00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,120
Speaker 1: get honey, and then as it pulled its head out,

394
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,000
Speaker 1: the spikes would gouge into its face, and so its

395
00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:56,520
Speaker 1: head would be trapped inside the log like with with

396
00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,480
Speaker 1: iron spikes gouged into its mouth. And then while the

397
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 1: bear was like in horrible agony trying to free itself

398
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:05,399
Speaker 1: and blinded because it's head stuck in a stump, he

399
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,800
Speaker 1: would just shoot it in the head. I mean, I

400
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:14,119
Speaker 1: feel like he went a step Barbara for that, but

401
00:21:14,960 --> 00:21:17,360
Speaker 1: you know, it's different times, I guess. So, yeah, that's

402
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,520
Speaker 1: the kind of hunter Jim is. He's a he's a

403
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:24,200
Speaker 1: a cunning man and good at surviving, but also clearly

404
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,600
Speaker 1: uh not against horrific cruelty. Um even like I mean,

405
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:30,959
Speaker 1: even amongst sort of the ways you hear about people trapping,

406
00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 1: that's pretty rough. Uh yeah. So uh. He was very

407
00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 1: successful at living on the frontier um, and he made

408
00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,440
Speaker 1: enough money that after two years living this way, he'd

409
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:44,640
Speaker 1: saved up three hundred dollars to use as a down

410
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,560
Speaker 1: payment on the land he'd been squatting on um and

411
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:49,680
Speaker 1: he had enough left over from that nest dagg after

412
00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:52,119
Speaker 1: he bought the land to buy some human beings, a

413
00:21:52,200 --> 00:21:55,160
Speaker 1: family of four that he purchased on credit from his father.

414
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:58,000
Speaker 1: Over the next couple of years, Jim Bowie used their

415
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,639
Speaker 1: unpaid labor and very questionable credit math to work out

416
00:22:01,680 --> 00:22:04,280
Speaker 1: a series of loans and deferred payments for three more

417
00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: parcels of land. Now, these were days in which no

418
00:22:07,160 --> 00:22:10,119
Speaker 1: one had much hard currency, and most deals relied heavily

419
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,600
Speaker 1: on the amount of personal trust the loanie was able

420
00:22:12,640 --> 00:22:15,680
Speaker 1: to gain from whoever issued the loan. Um it like.

421
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,760
Speaker 1: It wasn't like today where you actually had to have

422
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,239
Speaker 1: the money one way or the other, you know, if

423
00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: you got like a bank to front it to you like.

424
00:22:21,440 --> 00:22:23,680
Speaker 1: A lot of loans were based on like you're a

425
00:22:23,760 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 1: trustworthy guy um and And Jim Bowie was good initially

426
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:31,280
Speaker 1: at least at convincing people that he was worth taking

427
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 1: a risk on. Before long, Using only the his own

428
00:22:34,720 --> 00:22:38,080
Speaker 1: elbow greased and the uncompensated labor of four enslaved people,

429
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 1: Jim was able to turn these four plots of land

430
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: into a productive and valuable piece of property. He would

431
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,040
Speaker 1: eventually sell it for significantly more than he paid for it.

432
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:48,840
Speaker 1: What Jim succeeded with was essentially the goal of the

433
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,680
Speaker 1: smartest pioneers. They were land speculators looking to turn labor

434
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:54,880
Speaker 1: into real estate value and eventually get to the point

435
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 1: where they could profit from investments without spending three years

436
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,160
Speaker 1: clearing timber. In the time when he wasn't working, Jim

437
00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,320
Speaker 1: Bowie was sociable, as Three Roads to the Alamo notes,

438
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,320
Speaker 1: Society was important to James Bowie. He loved company, and

439
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,160
Speaker 1: his open, frank manner and even temper attracted others to him.

440
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: He was also ambitious, and he knew and he knew

441
00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,600
Speaker 1: it to be in his interest to cultivate friendships with

442
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,800
Speaker 1: what John Bowie called the better class of people. And

443
00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:20,760
Speaker 1: they're on rare occasion, when there were too many glasses

444
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:22,960
Speaker 1: in the merriment turned to harsh words, his other side

445
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:25,800
Speaker 1: might emerge. He would not abide an insult. When enraged,

446
00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,280
Speaker 1: James Bowie became entirely single minded in his determination to

447
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:32,280
Speaker 1: vent his anger on a foe. What observers took for

448
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,520
Speaker 1: fearlessness was as much an entire forgetfulness of his own

449
00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:37,880
Speaker 1: safety in the grips of his fury. He soon acquired

450
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 1: a reputation as a man to both respect and fear.

451
00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:44,440
Speaker 1: That's an elegent way to put that. Like, Once he

452
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,080
Speaker 1: got drunk and kissed him off. He would fight you

453
00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 1: till he couldn't fight you anymore. Yeah, it's this thing

454
00:23:52,040 --> 00:23:55,600
Speaker 1: where like this is like this constant state of realization

455
00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,960
Speaker 1: as you like go over the stories of like frontier

456
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,199
Speaker 1: legends and wild West heroes and off that, like, oh,

457
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:04,720
Speaker 1: if these people were around in twenty you would call

458
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 1: them violent drunks who commit murder when they get wasted.

459
00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: Like like in there, there's like he was a good

460
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: friend and a dangerous enemy, which just means that like

461
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,399
Speaker 1: when he got drunk and he thought you had muttered

462
00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 1: something about him, he would just start shooting, Like yeah,

463
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:25,080
Speaker 1: and that person a good friend and a dangerous enemy.

464
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: That shouldn't be the same person. Yeah, Yeah, he shouldn't

465
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,320
Speaker 1: be your good friend and then in the same day

466
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,879
Speaker 1: also be your worst enemy. That's not that's not a

467
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: good dude. Yeah, he got piste usually easily, especially when

468
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,120
Speaker 1: drinking um, which is it was more of a romantic

469
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 1: thing back then that I think we tend to consider it.

470
00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:51,119
Speaker 1: It's just it's fun. Yeah. We we didn't have terms

471
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:56,040
Speaker 1: like violent alcoholic back then. Instead, you were, uh, you

472
00:24:56,080 --> 00:24:59,959
Speaker 1: were just known as being rambunctious and a man to respect.

473
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,879
Speaker 1: Didn't fear like that's what you called the guy who

474
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,520
Speaker 1: was really good with a gun and got drunken angry

475
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 1: too often. There's that guy that's gonna feel us. He's

476
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 1: so funny. He's so funny. I really respect his ability

477
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:15,320
Speaker 1: to murder people when he's wasted. I like that we

478
00:25:15,440 --> 00:25:18,440
Speaker 1: don't know what he's gonna do. Ever, that's my favorite

479
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:22,200
Speaker 1: part about him. I like how unpredictable he is with

480
00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: that six gun he always carries. Yeah, and also how

481
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:30,119
Speaker 1: how talented he is at using it. That part mixed

482
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:35,280
Speaker 1: in with the unpredictable is awesome. It's so good. You

483
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 1: know what else, he's so good. I was gonna say,

484
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:43,359
Speaker 1: you know what, also is unpredictable with a handgun? Sure,

485
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,440
Speaker 1: let's go with that. The sponsors of this podcast. You

486
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,320
Speaker 1: can never predict what they'll do with their guns. That's

487
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 1: how we've had all of our sponsors, is their unpredictability

488
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: with a firearm. We just throw one at them. See

489
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:06,479
Speaker 1: what happened. You can never predict it. Here's product. Al Right,

490
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,000
Speaker 1: we are back and we're talking about Jim Booie. So

491
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: back during his brief time in the militia, Jim had

492
00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:16,160
Speaker 1: been in near contact with a guy named Dr. James Long,

493
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: a surgeon who had served in the Battle of New

494
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:21,159
Speaker 1: Orleans and was pretty well known by the excitable and

495
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: heavily armed men of Louisiana. In the summer of eighteen nineteen,

496
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,560
Speaker 1: Long began making plans to invade Texas. Uh. Now, then,

497
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:33,560
Speaker 1: as in today, Texas was a violent and lawless wasteland.

498
00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,919
Speaker 1: Mexico was ostensibly in charge, but they weren't great at

499
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,439
Speaker 1: being in charge, and the United States had only recently

500
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,639
Speaker 1: yielded her claim over Texas in the Adams OWNUS Treaty.

501
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 1: A lot of her being honest, Mexico was stealing in charges. Yeah,

502
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,960
Speaker 1: large swaths of texts. Yeah, but they're not there again.

503
00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: They're still not good at it. No one's really ever

504
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,440
Speaker 1: been good at being in charge of Texas, which is

505
00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,000
Speaker 1: part of Yeah, it's a lot of Texas is charm

506
00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 1: and a lot of what makes Texas is such a

507
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,560
Speaker 1: bad place to be. Um. So you think one person

508
00:27:03,640 --> 00:27:06,760
Speaker 1: is gonna tell all these dickads what to do? Okay, No, No,

509
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,359
Speaker 1: they don't even listen to each other. They're now you

510
00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:15,320
Speaker 1: gonna listen to you? Ye Oh that everyone voted? Okay, okay, yeah, Yeah,

511
00:27:15,359 --> 00:27:17,879
Speaker 1: it's just like people talk about Austin being the capital

512
00:27:17,960 --> 00:27:21,080
Speaker 1: of Texas. The capital of Texas has always been whatever

513
00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:23,440
Speaker 1: the most men with guns in a given part of

514
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: Texas want the law to be. It's just how it works. Yeah,

515
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: um so yeah, yeah. A lot of southern white dudes

516
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 1: weren't happy that the US had kind of backed off

517
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,600
Speaker 1: on attempting to take over Texas, and mainly this was

518
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:41,679
Speaker 1: because they wanted to take over a bunch of Texas

519
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: for themselves because other parts of the Southeast were kind

520
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,000
Speaker 1: of filling up. Um So, this doctor James Long, started

521
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 1: putting together a crude militia of what you would either

522
00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,080
Speaker 1: call freedom fighters or violent extremists, depending on you know

523
00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:57,720
Speaker 1: their complexion and your complexion and how you feel about

524
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: complexions in general. Uh, and are about seventy five of

525
00:28:01,119 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: these guys, and their plan was to launch an expedition

526
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: through the territory and claim it for the United States.

527
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:09,360
Speaker 1: They marched through Louisiana on their way over, and Jim

528
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,359
Speaker 1: Bowie could not resist the urge to get into a

529
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:14,119
Speaker 1: series of gunfights and maybe also get rich, so he

530
00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: signed up along the way. But wait, white, we're going where?

531
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:24,320
Speaker 1: Sure you need a violent guy. I'm a violent guy.

532
00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: I'm really bummed that I didn't get into more gunfights

533
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: when the war happened. I would love a chance to

534
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:32,560
Speaker 1: do that again. I never shot over that one before.

535
00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. So by the time Long reached Nakodoches, one

536
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,000
Speaker 1: of every one of the three or four towns in

537
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,800
Speaker 1: Texas that every Texan elementary student learns how to spell. Um,

538
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,080
Speaker 1: it was late June, and Long and his men declared

539
00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 1: a new government and started proclaiming laws. Now, it was

540
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,000
Speaker 1: a general rule when white folks with guns in the

541
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: middle of nowhere started announcing laws in this period of times,

542
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:56,400
Speaker 1: one of two things would happen. One would be a

543
00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 1: violent ship show, and two would be the United States

544
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:02,600
Speaker 1: of America. Unfortunately, that had already happened, and so this

545
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,520
Speaker 1: turned into a violent ship show. Um yeah. So Long

546
00:29:06,680 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 1: knew that his three hundred men or so wouldn't be

547
00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:11,840
Speaker 1: much of a match for the entire Mexican army, so

548
00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,760
Speaker 1: he attempted to draw more filibusters down by offering them

549
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 1: land at a dollar an acre, which was a pretty

550
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: good price. Uh. And so for a couple of months

551
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,320
Speaker 1: he succeeded in drawing in a few hundred guys who

552
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:26,560
Speaker 1: wanted very cheap land. Um And Jim Bowie was immediately

553
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 1: one of the most popular of these filibusters, mainly because

554
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:32,400
Speaker 1: he was really good at getting into gunfights, which happened

555
00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:36,280
Speaker 1: pretty regularly during this period of time. Um And and

556
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,720
Speaker 1: the various fights that Jim got into around now would

557
00:29:39,720 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 1: have been his first taste of Mortal Kombat. But it

558
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,440
Speaker 1: was pretty obvious that Long was outmanned and outclassed by

559
00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 1: the Spanish authorities, and by October of night of eighteen nineteen,

560
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: they'd driven him and his men out of Nakodoches. Within

561
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: a month or so, the expedition was a shambles, and

562
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:57,160
Speaker 1: Jim Bowie fled back to Louisiana because he didn't really

563
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: want to get his ass kicked. So we got into

564
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,000
Speaker 1: a couple of gunfights. He gets to have an adventure,

565
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,880
Speaker 1: but it doesn't really work out in the long run.

566
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 1: I got fled out of magadish this one time. Yeah,

567
00:30:05,760 --> 00:30:08,680
Speaker 1: it's a write of passage for every Texas Texans. So

568
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: Jim Bowie was a trailblazer in that hammered and they're like,

569
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:16,200
Speaker 1: you need to leave down. I was like that, now

570
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: this would not be the last time that James Bowie

571
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 1: would try and fail to conquer Texas um. And thankfully

572
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,880
Speaker 1: there were no consequences at this point for invading another

573
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,520
Speaker 1: nation's sovereign territory and trying to take over a part

574
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 1: of it. Like he and and the other Filibusters just

575
00:30:30,120 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: kind of went back to Louisiana and everything was fine

576
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,320
Speaker 1: like that. I mean, it's it's kind of like the Bundy's. Yeah, yeah,

577
00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,280
Speaker 1: it is a little bit like that, yeah, with with

578
00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:44,360
Speaker 1: more gunfire than I heard, Yeah, with the Bundy's. So

579
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:46,880
Speaker 1: or Jim would return home and kind of got together

580
00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: with his brothers, John and Resin, and they all kind

581
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: of agreed that, uh, they were ready to make a whole,

582
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:55,080
Speaker 1: big fucking pile of money. Um. And in those days,

583
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: as now, the best way to make a whole, big

584
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:02,080
Speaker 1: fucking pile of money was to sell illegal and desirable products. UM. Now,

585
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: today that means cocaine. In nearly eighteen hundreds, it meant

586
00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:09,800
Speaker 1: enslaved human beings. Slavery was obviously a big business and

587
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: a big part of the economy of the South, but

588
00:31:12,080 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 1: by eighteen nineteen, most American slaves had been born in

589
00:31:15,640 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: or around the United States. Because The federal government had

590
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:21,600
Speaker 1: banned Americans from buying African slaves about a decade earlier,

591
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:24,280
Speaker 1: in eighteen o eight. Now, some of this had been

592
00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:27,520
Speaker 1: due to moral pressure to in the Atlantic slave trade. Um,

593
00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,560
Speaker 1: but it only happened because America's political leaders assumed that

594
00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: existing slaves would breed enough to you know, settled demand.

595
00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: But the massive growth of the plantation system in the

596
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: South in this period surprised people, and before long the

597
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 1: demand for slaves in the Old South far outstripped the supply.

598
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: This was obviously christ what that surprises, you know, But

599
00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 1: just to hear it, yeah, I mean, there's no way

600
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:57,880
Speaker 1: it's weird, because like these are these are human beings

601
00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,200
Speaker 1: and we should always talk about this as the hime

602
00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 1: that it was. But also I think if you talk

603
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,920
Speaker 1: about it, I think it actually it actually gets across

604
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: how horrible it was when we do use terms like

605
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:10,880
Speaker 1: supply and demand and product, because that's how these people

606
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: viewed them. Um. Jim Booie was looking at like the

607
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: fact that, oh, you know, slaves aren't having enough babies

608
00:32:18,640 --> 00:32:21,280
Speaker 1: to meet for the demands, so someone needs to bring

609
00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: in more people to enslave. Um. He was looking at

610
00:32:24,560 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 1: it the same way that like today we're like, oh,

611
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,320
Speaker 1: there's not enough toilet paper. We need to manufacture more

612
00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:31,479
Speaker 1: toilet paper. That's how they thought about human beings who

613
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:33,400
Speaker 1: were enslaved at this point in time. And that's the

614
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: more he thought about it, like, hey, there's not enough

615
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: prisoners in my prison too for the stockholders to make money. Yeah. Yeah,

616
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:46,400
Speaker 1: he would have owned a private prison or at least

617
00:32:46,480 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: invested in one if he lived in the modern day,

618
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:52,120
Speaker 1: but he didn't, and so he got up to what

619
00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:57,880
Speaker 1: I can only call like a slave trading con um. So, yeah,

620
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,560
Speaker 1: this is a complicated business. So I I I have

621
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 1: to explain some peculiar and some peculiarities of Louisiana law. First, so,

622
00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 1: slaves smuggling was a big business um and because the

623
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:12,360
Speaker 1: state was fundamentally racist, it had no desire to Like,

624
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 1: the state didn't want people smuggling slaves, right, it had to.

625
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:17,840
Speaker 1: It had to try to stop that. It had to erase,

626
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: arrest slave smugglers, and it had to confiscate the smuggled slaves.

627
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: But those smuggled slaves were still property. So when illicit

628
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:28,200
Speaker 1: slave traders were caught bringing African slaves illegally into the

629
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: United States. Those slaves were not freed, and they sure

630
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,840
Speaker 1: as ship weren't returned home. Instead, they were auctioned off

631
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:39,680
Speaker 1: by the government for profit. This meant captured smuggled slaves

632
00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,320
Speaker 1: were super profitable for the government because if they you

633
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: captured a bunch of slaves, you just made a shipload

634
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:46,960
Speaker 1: of money as the government. So the government had a

635
00:33:47,040 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 1: real interest and actually people telling them where contraband enslaved

636
00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: human beings were, so they would pay a bounty on

637
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,360
Speaker 1: people who could turn in contract like who could point out, like, hey,

638
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of contraband slaves here. Such helpful citizens

639
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: received a percentage of the sale price of the slaves

640
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: as a reward. Are you seeing how this could be

641
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: the system could be gamed yet? I yeah? Yeah, So

642
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: all this brings me to the story of Jean Lafitte,

643
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: a French pirate who spent half of his year robbing

644
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:21,279
Speaker 1: and raping and stealing whole ships full of booty on

645
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,839
Speaker 1: the Spanish main and half of his year hanging out

646
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:27,759
Speaker 1: in a fortified compound called Snake Island near Galveston, which

647
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 1: is objectively cool. It is cool to be a pirate with. Yeah,

648
00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: there's like a couple of things that you shouldn't have done,

649
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,600
Speaker 1: but everything else sounds awesome. Yeah, Snake pirate with living

650
00:34:36,640 --> 00:34:38,960
Speaker 1: on Snake Island, that's cool as hell. Like, I mean,

651
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,800
Speaker 1: it's awful that he's trading and enslaved human beings, but

652
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:46,719
Speaker 1: Snake Island, you know, yeah, yeah, so uh yeah. He

653
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 1: would sell stolen goods from his base in Snake Island,

654
00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:53,160
Speaker 1: and throughout eighteen eighteen eighteen nineteen, Lafitte and his pirates

655
00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:57,200
Speaker 1: were particularly successful in stealing shiploads of enslaved people bound

656
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,839
Speaker 1: for South America, and Lafitte's barracks on Snake Island soon

657
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:06,120
Speaker 1: held more than six hundred of these people. Now, can

658
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,000
Speaker 1: I just make a terrible just like one of his

659
00:35:09,160 --> 00:35:12,320
Speaker 1: other projects, like scratching his head on the I like

660
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,160
Speaker 1: this place used to be a lot more fun. Um

661
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: it sounds like all he cares about his money. Now,

662
00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,920
Speaker 1: this is yeah, not what I had in mind when

663
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,320
Speaker 1: I signed up. It used to just be about the

664
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:32,480
Speaker 1: pillaging exactly. So. Around this same time, Jim Bowie had

665
00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:35,239
Speaker 1: developed a bit of a reputation in this area um

666
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:40,359
Speaker 1: as a a rough customer and and an exciting guy.

667
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,200
Speaker 1: He was a land speculator, but He also made cash

668
00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 1: as a roper and a tamer of wild horses and

669
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 1: as an alligator writer, which what do you Understandly everyone

670
00:35:53,719 --> 00:35:59,040
Speaker 1: around this time was a rough character, so everyone else

671
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: to be like that guy's fucking. The average person in

672
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:08,040
Speaker 1: like the southeast Southwest in this period of time who

673
00:36:08,080 --> 00:36:11,400
Speaker 1: could make it to twenty would have just wiped the

674
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:14,320
Speaker 1: floor with any given m M A fighter today, largely

675
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,480
Speaker 1: because they would have immediately pulled a knife. Yeah, well,

676
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:21,800
Speaker 1: he said, I thought this is a fight. I just

677
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 1: stabbed him. That's how we fight. He did. He didn't

678
00:36:24,920 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: stab me back. I don't understand it. He was dumb.

679
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:32,759
Speaker 1: So Jim Billie was like really popular among like the

680
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:35,880
Speaker 1: whole area around Snake Island because he was just this

681
00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:40,200
Speaker 1: this tough dude who would write alligators and ship who

682
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: tried to evade Texas. He was a cool seen as

683
00:36:42,480 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: kind of a cool guy. So James, you know, his

684
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:50,080
Speaker 1: popularity eventually brings him into conversation with Jean Lafitte, and

685
00:36:50,120 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: the two became instant friends because they were both dangerous sociopaths,

686
00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 1: And eventually the pirate let Jim in on a little secret.

687
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:58,759
Speaker 1: He had a shipload of slaves but a lot of

688
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 1: them were sick um and so he just couldn't sell

689
00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: them um. And he wasn't allowed to legally sell any

690
00:37:04,120 --> 00:37:06,160
Speaker 1: of them in the United States because they were all

691
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: from Africa. Now, at this point in time, a healthy

692
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:11,759
Speaker 1: slave went for about a dollar a pound, which is

693
00:37:11,800 --> 00:37:14,239
Speaker 1: how Jean Lafitte sold human beings. But again the sick

694
00:37:14,320 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 1: ones were unsellable. So Booie came to visit the fit

695
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,520
Speaker 1: on Snake Island and took a look at his inventory,

696
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: and he returned from the trip, got together with these brothers,

697
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: and together they launched a plan. So gen bow John Bowie,

698
00:37:26,680 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: who was part of this plan, would later write, quote,

699
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: we first purchased forty negroes from Lafitte at the rate

700
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: of one dollar per pound, or an average of a

701
00:37:33,880 --> 00:37:36,400
Speaker 1: hundred and forty dollars for each negro. We bought them

702
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,480
Speaker 1: into the limits of the United States, delivered them to

703
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: a custom house officer, and became the informers ourselves. The

704
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:44,320
Speaker 1: law gave the informer half the value of the negroes

705
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 1: which were put up and sold by the United States Marshal,

706
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 1: and we became the purchasers of the negroes, took half

707
00:37:49,239 --> 00:37:52,440
Speaker 1: as our award for informing and obtained the marshal sale

708
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,600
Speaker 1: for forty negroes, which entitled us to sell them within

709
00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: the United States. We continued to follow this business until

710
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:00,600
Speaker 1: we made sixty five thousand dollars. So you see what

711
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: the scam is here, Billy. They're buying slaves that are

712
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: illegal to bring into the United States um from their

713
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 1: pirate fringe, John Lafitte. And then they turned the slaves

714
00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:14,520
Speaker 1: into the government and say we caught these illegal slaves

715
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,719
Speaker 1: being smuggled in and the reward the government gave them

716
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,719
Speaker 1: was half the value of the slaves. And then the

717
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,359
Speaker 1: government would auction off the slaves and they would buy

718
00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:27,040
Speaker 1: the slaves at auction and basically get subsidized for the

719
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 1: price of the slaves because they'd get, you know, half

720
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: of the value of them um as a reward. And

721
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:35,279
Speaker 1: then once they bought the slaves at auction, they would

722
00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:37,839
Speaker 1: be legal slaves in the United States and they could

723
00:38:37,880 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: go on and sell them to other people. And it

724
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: also worked because Lafitte a lot of his slaves were

725
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: elderly and old and sick um and so nobody was

726
00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,959
Speaker 1: going to buy them from the pirate, but they would

727
00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 1: buy the slaves, turn them into the United States and

728
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 1: get half of the value because they were valued by weight.

729
00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:57,040
Speaker 1: They'd still get money for these slaves that were actually

730
00:38:57,200 --> 00:38:59,799
Speaker 1: valueless slaves, and then the government would just be stuck

731
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:03,080
Speaker 1: with them. So like, yeah, it was that. This was

732
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: like the slavery con that that Jim Bowie made his

733
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 1: fortune in. Wow. Yeah, it's it's like Robin drug dealers,

734
00:39:13,719 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 1: but worse because there's not because you're still a terrible person. Yeah,

735
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: it's it's I don't even really have a word for it,

736
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 1: but like, slavery is one of the worst things a

737
00:39:24,760 --> 00:39:27,520
Speaker 1: human being can do, but in this time, it was illegal,

738
00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: and so they found out found a way to take

739
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,839
Speaker 1: this horrible legal thing and also break the law while

740
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:37,800
Speaker 1: doing it. Like it's yeah, we're doing slavery, but shady.

741
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:42,239
Speaker 1: Yeah what is that? How did you do that? It's

742
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:48,320
Speaker 1: a gift? Now, Billy? You know who won't illegally commit

743
00:39:48,480 --> 00:39:52,560
Speaker 1: tax fraud by sneakily importing slaves in and then turning

744
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,680
Speaker 1: them into the customs officers in in order to take

745
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:56,799
Speaker 1: advantage in a loophole in the law. You know who

746
00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: won't do that? Billy? I don't want to guess the

747
00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:08,719
Speaker 1: ducks and services that support this podcast. So we're back. Um. So,

748
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:11,960
Speaker 1: the Bowie Boys spent months engaging in this business of

749
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: buying slaves from a pirate, taking them into the United States,

750
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 1: smuggling them in, and then turning them into the government.

751
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: And true to form, Jim Bowie had the most personally

752
00:40:20,800 --> 00:40:23,319
Speaker 1: violent task of the whole enterprise. And I'm gonna quote

753
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,240
Speaker 1: now from William C. Davis's book Three Roads to the Alamo.

754
00:40:26,440 --> 00:40:29,760
Speaker 1: Quote James himself did the most dangerous work of conveying

755
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,400
Speaker 1: the contrabands through the swamps and bayous, bringing them in

756
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:34,839
Speaker 1: lots of forty at a time as many as one

757
00:40:34,920 --> 00:40:37,319
Speaker 1: or two men could handle. Although the blacks were chained,

758
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:40,359
Speaker 1: Bowie found little need for fetters. The frightened Africans knew

759
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: nothing of the country and had nowhere to go. While

760
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: they were told enough of alligators, snakes, and hostile natives

761
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,600
Speaker 1: to know to know that safety, if not happiness, lay

762
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,080
Speaker 1: with the Bowie's. On one trip, a few slaves may

763
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:52,320
Speaker 1: have escaped, not to be found again. But for the

764
00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,680
Speaker 1: rest James Bowie felt secure that they would not run.

765
00:40:55,040 --> 00:40:56,839
Speaker 1: He even told the feet on one of his visits

766
00:40:56,880 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 1: to Campeache that he rarely lost a slave because he

767
00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: was our and he knew they feared him, and stilling

768
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:04,960
Speaker 1: fear in others was something James Bowie did with ease.

769
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: It sounds like, not with ease, like with pride. He's right, yeah, yeah,

770
00:41:11,160 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: He's like, no, I have this gift, then I'll kill you. Yeah.

771
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: I'm really good at scaring chained up people with a

772
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: gun as I lead them through unfamiliar territory because they

773
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,360
Speaker 1: look at me and without question, they know that I

774
00:41:24,440 --> 00:41:27,200
Speaker 1: will murder that. Yeah. I don't give a ship. It

775
00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: means nothing to me. It's like, yeah, people, people tell

776
00:41:31,719 --> 00:41:34,440
Speaker 1: me it's a gift, but I issues who I am now.

777
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: James was very much taken with the slave smuggling business.

778
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: He saw it as an easy way to make outsized

779
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 1: profits while committing what he considered to be a victimless crime.

780
00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 1: The state made money, the pirate made money, and he

781
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:51,640
Speaker 1: made money. No one got harmed, not one human being

782
00:41:51,719 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 1: got harm. Yeah. Yeah. Now, one thing Jim Bowie was

783
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:58,960
Speaker 1: capable of doing was nursing a deep and abiding love

784
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: for knives. Obviously, Bowie is most famous for the enormous

785
00:42:02,719 --> 00:42:05,080
Speaker 1: blade that bears his name, which we'll be talking about

786
00:42:05,080 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 1: in detail here. Yep, the old gym knife. Yep, you

787
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:13,399
Speaker 1: know the old saying, you got a gym on your hip,

788
00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:19,160
Speaker 1: never go hiking without a gym. Yeah. So, and I

789
00:42:19,239 --> 00:42:21,440
Speaker 1: have to confess here that my bowie knives are my

790
00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:24,959
Speaker 1: favorite kind of knife. I love. There's nothing like having

791
00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:27,520
Speaker 1: like a fucking pound and a half knife on your

792
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 1: hip and just really fucking up a piece of wood

793
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: or a severed skull of a cow. Whatever you gotta

794
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:35,920
Speaker 1: funk up with a knife when you're hiking around in

795
00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,840
Speaker 1: the middle of nowhere. A bowie knife can do it.

796
00:42:38,120 --> 00:42:41,160
Speaker 1: And and I feel it's a shame that these solid

797
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: knives have gotten tarnished by the name of this slave

798
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,479
Speaker 1: owning monster. And this is the story of why. Because

799
00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: he did not invent the knife. Yeah, but I feel

800
00:42:49,120 --> 00:42:53,799
Speaker 1: like he probably did it justice he did. He did,

801
00:42:53,960 --> 00:42:56,279
Speaker 1: And we're going to talk about why his knife got

802
00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 1: famous here. So the knife was initially the knife that

803
00:43:00,000 --> 00:43:02,439
Speaker 1: he got famous for was initially a gift from his brother.

804
00:43:02,760 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: Probably you'll hear a couple of different stories about how

805
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,719
Speaker 1: he got his the first bowie knife from a couple

806
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: of different people, and it's not really important to get

807
00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,719
Speaker 1: into each of the different stories and detail. Um, but

808
00:43:12,840 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: the the details we can synthesize that they kind of

809
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,840
Speaker 1: all have in common. Boiled down to Jim Bowie received

810
00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,719
Speaker 1: a really fucking big knife, either as a gift or

811
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: as a purchased he like commissioned himself from a blacksmith,

812
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 1: and it was made by a local Louisiana blacksmith to

813
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:31,320
Speaker 1: be significantly larger and heavier than most hunting knives of

814
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:34,600
Speaker 1: the arrow were. So he just gets an unusually large knife.

815
00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,839
Speaker 1: Either his brother hasn't made for him, or he pays

816
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:38,440
Speaker 1: a guy to make it, but he winds up with

817
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:45,000
Speaker 1: his huge funk off knife. Um. Now it is a

818
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: hobbit sword. Yeah. And his brother John would later claim

819
00:43:49,680 --> 00:43:51,879
Speaker 1: that he bought the knife for Jim. And and John

820
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: had significant financial motivation to making this claim because the

821
00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: Bowie family got rich off of the fact that their

822
00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:00,359
Speaker 1: name was attached to a famous kind of knife. Um.

823
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,440
Speaker 1: And John also had a vested interest in making it

824
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 1: seem as if his brother was like a knife wielding prodigy,

825
00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:08,120
Speaker 1: like an artist with a blade. Um, and the reality

826
00:44:08,239 --> 00:44:11,880
Speaker 1: is very different from that. Um Now. J Frank Adbe

827
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:14,200
Speaker 1: a historian who studied Bowie and produced a pretty fair

828
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: biography of him in nineteen fifty seven noted big Jim

829
00:44:18,080 --> 00:44:20,840
Speaker 1: Bowie and conveying smuggled slaves, armed himself with three or

830
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:23,399
Speaker 1: four knives that he could transfix any captive who tried

831
00:44:23,480 --> 00:44:25,640
Speaker 1: to break away. Jerking a knife out was easier than

832
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:28,279
Speaker 1: reloading a horse pistol at the muzzle. Both Jim and

833
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,360
Speaker 1: Resident could keep several knives moving in the air at

834
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: the same time without allowing one to touch the ground.

835
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 1: At twenty paces. Either could send a knife clean through

836
00:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 1: a small wooden target. So that's probably untrue, but these

837
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:41,879
Speaker 1: are the kind of stories people started to tell about

838
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:43,959
Speaker 1: Jim Bowie that he was like, yeah, like a master

839
00:44:44,160 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: of the blade. And the reason that he got this

840
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,239
Speaker 1: reputation for being an artist with a knife is because

841
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:54,879
Speaker 1: of something that happened in eighteen seven, the infamous Sandbar fight.

842
00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:02,400
Speaker 1: So it's amazing to me because a lot of people

843
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,240
Speaker 1: get stabbed to death and fights even today, and nobody

844
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,439
Speaker 1: cares about those fights, and they're kind of written down

845
00:45:07,560 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 1: as like the result of thugs and criminals, um just

846
00:45:11,000 --> 00:45:14,239
Speaker 1: having access to knives. Uh, But when a bunch of

847
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,400
Speaker 1: white dudes stab each other to death, this is what happens.

848
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,600
Speaker 1: Um well, on a sandbar. Yeah, on a sandbar. So

849
00:45:21,719 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 1: it's good to know that people have always been doing

850
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:28,520
Speaker 1: nonsense on sandbars in the Gulf of Mexico. Yeah. Yeah,

851
00:45:28,719 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: and this sandbar, we'll talk about the sandbar. So Jim

852
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 1: spent most of the eighteen twenties engaging in a series

853
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,880
Speaker 1: of land cons in Arkansas. Um And basically he had

854
00:45:39,920 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 1: committed dozens of acts of fraud and basically sold people

855
00:45:42,880 --> 00:45:49,040
Speaker 1: land and to this day in Arkansas business business. Yeah,

856
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:51,879
Speaker 1: he would sell people land that he didn't have any

857
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 1: right to and then take their money and funk off.

858
00:45:55,920 --> 00:45:59,360
Speaker 1: This is not too mad at that he did that

859
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: for decade. It's like, is a general rule if you're

860
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,640
Speaker 1: wondering what Jim Bowie was doing during a period of

861
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:05,240
Speaker 1: his life where we don't have a lot of detail,

862
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 1: he was scamming people into buying land he didn't known. Um.

863
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,200
Speaker 1: So he did this a bunch of Arkansas and it

864
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,759
Speaker 1: piste off a lot of people. Um And he also

865
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: like the only way he was able to get away

866
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,440
Speaker 1: with it is that he relied heavily on banks to

867
00:46:17,560 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 1: lend him the credit to do land speculation. UM. And

868
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: at one point in the late eighteen twenties, he was

869
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,880
Speaker 1: infuriated to find that the sheriff of a nearby parish

870
00:46:26,120 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 1: had basically put in a bad word against him and

871
00:46:28,440 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: stopped the bank from giving him a loan that he

872
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,919
Speaker 1: needed to continue his cons um So he got into

873
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:36,439
Speaker 1: an argument with the person who'd put with that sheriff,

874
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,480
Speaker 1: and they got into a fight on the street, and

875
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,719
Speaker 1: the sheriff, a guy named Norris Wright, shot at Jim

876
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:44,200
Speaker 1: Bowie and only failed to kill him because the bullet

877
00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 1: hit a silver dollar in Bowie's pocket. Jim fired back,

878
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: but his pistol misfired, and so he charged Norris Right

879
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,800
Speaker 1: to try to beat him to death with his bare hands,

880
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:55,759
Speaker 1: but his friends intervened and stopped the whole thing from

881
00:46:55,880 --> 00:46:59,120
Speaker 1: ending in murder, and that really pissed Jim off, and

882
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:01,800
Speaker 1: he prom after that point that he would never be

883
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,360
Speaker 1: caught without an enormous knife on his body, so that

884
00:47:04,440 --> 00:47:06,759
Speaker 1: if that happened again and his gun misfired, he could

885
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: just stab a guide to death, and maybe stab his

886
00:47:08,719 --> 00:47:10,560
Speaker 1: friends to death for trying to stop him from stabbing

887
00:47:10,600 --> 00:47:15,839
Speaker 1: a guided death, because those aren't his friends anymore. Yeah, yeah,

888
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:20,200
Speaker 1: so yeah, it did not take long for Jim Bowie

889
00:47:20,239 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: to find an occasion to use his giant funk Off

890
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: knife to stab a man. So the sand Bar Fight

891
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: is really romanticized in Texas history, although it didn't happen

892
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: in Texas, but it involves Jim Bowie, and so we

893
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,800
Speaker 1: all learned about it. And the short of it is

894
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:36,280
Speaker 1: that Bowie wound up on one side of a formal

895
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:39,200
Speaker 1: duel which was held on a sand bar between Louisiana

896
00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: and Mississippi. Dueling was actually illegal in both states, and

897
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,360
Speaker 1: because the sand bar wasn't really in either state, was

898
00:47:45,440 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: a popular place for men to get together with their

899
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:50,160
Speaker 1: friends and try to murder other men. And they later

900
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 1: used that same bluephole for gambling. Yes, yeah, it's the

901
00:47:56,960 --> 00:48:01,360
Speaker 1: same basic idea. Now, one of the fun things about

902
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: the Sandbar Duel is that no one really has a

903
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,319
Speaker 1: good explanation as to why it started. There were two

904
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 1: different camps um one camp was focused around two brothers

905
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: named Wells and their friends, including Jim Bowie and the others.

906
00:48:14,560 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 1: On the other side was a guy named Robert Crane,

907
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:20,680
Speaker 1: a doctor named Thomas Maddox, and Bowie's old enemy Norris. Right. Now,

908
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,680
Speaker 1: all of these people had beef with each other for

909
00:48:22,760 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 1: a bunch of reasons, ranging from business disputes to allegations

910
00:48:25,600 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 1: of voter fraud, and mainly they just didn't like each other.

911
00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:31,799
Speaker 1: William C. Davis writes that quote, chances were that by

912
00:48:31,920 --> 00:48:34,200
Speaker 1: late summer of eighteen seven, none of them knew the

913
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:37,200
Speaker 1: true origins of their feud. So it's just a bunch

914
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:39,120
Speaker 1: of men who hate each other. And they agree to

915
00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,239
Speaker 1: meet up at the sandbar. Will it's okay to try

916
00:48:41,320 --> 00:48:44,000
Speaker 1: to murder each other, to try to murder each other. Um,

917
00:48:44,840 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 1: So they meet up there in the summer of eighteen seven.

918
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,759
Speaker 1: Against any of this at this point, No, No, it

919
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: sounds like everyone's willing to meet at the sandbar. So, well,

920
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,520
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be on the bank and I'm gonna watch.

921
00:48:57,040 --> 00:48:59,879
Speaker 1: This is the only victimless crime that we've run into.

922
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: So again, two gives a ship and these are all

923
00:49:05,160 --> 00:49:08,440
Speaker 1: probably monsters, like these are all slave owners, all pieces.

924
00:49:08,440 --> 00:49:11,319
Speaker 1: I don't care. Yeah, So all these guys meet up

925
00:49:11,320 --> 00:49:13,600
Speaker 1: at the sandbar and they exchange insults, and they waved

926
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:16,720
Speaker 1: guns at each other in the nearby city of Alexandria

927
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 1: first and like, so they all meet in the city

928
00:49:19,120 --> 00:49:21,000
Speaker 1: near the sand bar first, and they like wave guns

929
00:49:21,040 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: and yell at each other, and it's kind of like

930
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:25,239
Speaker 1: a pro wrestling thing, right, Like they all they all

931
00:49:25,320 --> 00:49:27,920
Speaker 1: get everyone around them fired up. And so the citizens

932
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:30,239
Speaker 1: in Alexandria like realized, oh, there's a feud got to

933
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:33,239
Speaker 1: be happening. And so like when these guys meet up

934
00:49:33,239 --> 00:49:36,759
Speaker 1: at the sands, yeah, that's exactly what this is. This

935
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:39,319
Speaker 1: is a fucking w w E match. And so when

936
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,479
Speaker 1: they meet up at the sandbar, like hundreds of people

937
00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,520
Speaker 1: surround the sandbar to watch this like fight start. It

938
00:49:45,719 --> 00:49:48,960
Speaker 1: was very very silly. Um is kind of the the

939
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: in summary of what happens. So eventually, on July, like

940
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,480
Speaker 1: the two kind of ringleaders of both groups, uh Norris

941
00:49:56,640 --> 00:49:59,200
Speaker 1: Right and a guy named Hall, agree to have a

942
00:49:59,280 --> 00:50:02,320
Speaker 1: gunfight the sandbar, and two people show up to observe

943
00:50:02,400 --> 00:50:09,000
Speaker 1: the fight. Yeah yeah, yeah, um, But Norris Wright doesn't

944
00:50:09,000 --> 00:50:11,280
Speaker 1: show up for the fight. Instead, he gathers a heavily

945
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: armed posse and shows up near the site of the

946
00:50:13,640 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 1: duel and like sends a representative in to say, like,

947
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: I'm not ready to fight yet, but we're gonna have

948
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,600
Speaker 1: a big fight in September. That's when we're gonna do

949
00:50:20,719 --> 00:50:24,359
Speaker 1: it September. It's like a fucking I can't get over

950
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: how much like the fucking w W E this is? Um. Yeah,

951
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:34,960
Speaker 1: So everybody kind of waits until the fall and then

952
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 1: the alright, alright, okay, so we all come back in

953
00:50:40,040 --> 00:50:43,440
Speaker 1: the fall. Yeah, So the aggrieved parties, I'll gather back

954
00:50:43,480 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: at the sand bar in September nine seven to try

955
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:49,720
Speaker 1: to murder each other for reasons which again are completely unclear.

956
00:50:49,760 --> 00:50:55,800
Speaker 1: It's very boredom seems to be the main driver in

957
00:50:55,880 --> 00:51:00,120
Speaker 1: all this. Now, officially the duel was between well and

958
00:51:00,239 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: Maddox this time, UM, and everyone else was seconds, including

959
00:51:03,560 --> 00:51:05,920
Speaker 1: Jim Booie. But there was so much hatred between all

960
00:51:05,920 --> 00:51:07,920
Speaker 1: the different men on both sides that the organizers of

961
00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,200
Speaker 1: the duel started to worry it might turn into a gigantic,

962
00:51:10,239 --> 00:51:13,040
Speaker 1: bloody fight, and to avoid that, they limited each side

963
00:51:13,239 --> 00:51:18,000
Speaker 1: to bringing three men onto the sandbar. So Wells and

964
00:51:18,120 --> 00:51:20,759
Speaker 1: Maddox face off at ten paces, and because Wells was

965
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: nearly blind, they had to be extra close. But it

966
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:28,120
Speaker 1: didn't matter if they were extra close. They're both terrible shots,

967
00:51:28,200 --> 00:51:31,279
Speaker 1: and they both miss at fucking ten feet away. Um.

968
00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: And so the duel ends, and nobody's hurt, and both

969
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,719
Speaker 1: men shake hands, and Wells and Maddox are actually like

970
00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:39,479
Speaker 1: fine with this, They're like, now we can be friends again.

971
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,200
Speaker 1: We tried to shoot each other, nobody died. This is

972
00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:45,120
Speaker 1: great and so kind of like at the end of

973
00:51:45,239 --> 00:51:49,560
Speaker 1: when a fucking children's best baseball team finishes a game,

974
00:51:49,680 --> 00:51:53,320
Speaker 1: like both sides convened together to shake hands, and this

975
00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:56,880
Speaker 1: is where things go awry because the other friends who

976
00:51:56,960 --> 00:51:59,239
Speaker 1: hadn't shot at each other are still really pissed, and

977
00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,400
Speaker 1: they start in holding each other, and an argument sparks up.

978
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 1: And if we don't know exactly what happens, there's different stories.

979
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: One of them is that uh one of the doctor

980
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,200
Speaker 1: Doctor Maddox pulls out his gun and tries to shoot

981
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,759
Speaker 1: another guy and accidentally shoots Jim Bowie in the leg

982
00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:18,320
Speaker 1: Um three Roads. The Alamo claims that the fight started

983
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 1: with when Jim Bowie and another man named Crane both

984
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,000
Speaker 1: drew their guns and everyone else tried to calm them down,

985
00:52:23,160 --> 00:52:25,200
Speaker 1: and then Crane shot at Bowie and missed him, and

986
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 1: then Bowie fired back and missed Crane, and then Crane

987
00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 1: drew his second pistol and fired again and missed again

988
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:33,120
Speaker 1: but hit one of Bowie's friends in the leg and

989
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 1: severed an artery. And then Crane realized he fucked up,

990
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,120
Speaker 1: and he ran like hell away, and so Jim Bowie

991
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:41,040
Speaker 1: drew his second pistol and fired while Crane was running,

992
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:43,560
Speaker 1: and he missed again. Because none of these guys are

993
00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: good at I have to. I can't. I have to.

994
00:52:45,719 --> 00:52:48,360
Speaker 1: I can't over emphasize how bad guns are in this

995
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,360
Speaker 1: period of time. Like these men are all firing multiple

996
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:54,080
Speaker 1: shots from tin foot distance and they can't fucking hit.

997
00:52:54,600 --> 00:52:56,439
Speaker 1: That's what I'm gonna say. It's like it's I don't

998
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,480
Speaker 1: think it's like a marksman problem. It's like a it's

999
00:52:59,640 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: a main manufacturing issue. No, they're metal tubes with explosives

1000
00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:09,440
Speaker 1: and a ball in them. Like guns are so shitty

1001
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,680
Speaker 1: at this point in time. And yeah, none of these

1002
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 1: people can hit for ship. So Bowie misses with his

1003
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:17,600
Speaker 1: second shot, and at this point he makes the wise

1004
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 1: decision to stop relying on his guns and go with

1005
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,920
Speaker 1: an idiot proof killing tool, the gigantic funk Off knife

1006
00:53:24,000 --> 00:53:26,480
Speaker 1: that he had strapped to his hip. So, roaring like

1007
00:53:26,600 --> 00:53:29,800
Speaker 1: a madman, he draws the knife and he like charges

1008
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: into the crowd of his adversaries because the guy who

1009
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: shot him like ran back to his friends and Bowie

1010
00:53:34,600 --> 00:53:37,880
Speaker 1: just rushes towards them wielding what is essentially a small sword.

1011
00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: The survivors describe him as seeming like a tiger as

1012
00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,960
Speaker 1: he shouted out, Crane, you have shot at me, and

1013
00:53:44,040 --> 00:53:52,760
Speaker 1: I will kill you if I can, so proper, pretty proper.

1014
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:55,759
Speaker 1: So Crane panics and he only he doesn't have a

1015
00:53:55,840 --> 00:53:57,480
Speaker 1: loaded gun, but he has an empty gun and it

1016
00:53:57,520 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: weighs like ten pounds because guns are big back then.

1017
00:54:00,560 --> 00:54:03,040
Speaker 1: So he throws it at Bowie's Bowie's charging and he

1018
00:54:03,120 --> 00:54:05,880
Speaker 1: hits him in the head and like seriously injures him

1019
00:54:05,920 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: because it's again a heavy piece of metal that he's

1020
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:11,359
Speaker 1: hitting this guy in the face with. This is if

1021
00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:16,399
Speaker 1: we wrote this kick us out of the network, get

1022
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: out here. This is famous for being one of the

1023
00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:21,960
Speaker 1: most badass fights of the Old West. And it reads

1024
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: like a fucking Binnie Hill skin. So he probably gives

1025
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 1: Bowie a concussion from this, Like nobody concussions weren't the

1026
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,440
Speaker 1: thing back then. But he like he just based on

1027
00:54:32,520 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 1: the reports he would like this fox Bowie up getting

1028
00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,919
Speaker 1: hit in the head with this gun like really hurts. Him. Um. Yeah,

1029
00:54:39,040 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 1: So he falls down to his knees as a result

1030
00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:43,880
Speaker 1: of getting hit in the face with this gun. And

1031
00:54:44,000 --> 00:54:46,719
Speaker 1: then Maddox, one of the duellists, the doctor who by

1032
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:50,080
Speaker 1: some accounts had accidentally started the fight by accidentally shooting Bowie,

1033
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:54,040
Speaker 1: but who knows. Dr Maddox charges Bowie like just to

1034
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,719
Speaker 1: like fist fight him, and Bowie throws him away like

1035
00:54:56,840 --> 00:54:59,960
Speaker 1: just because tosses him and so then Crane and their

1036
00:55:00,080 --> 00:55:02,719
Speaker 1: other friend, Norris Wright, who is the guy who had

1037
00:55:02,760 --> 00:55:05,800
Speaker 1: had a gunfight with Bowie months ago, charge in to

1038
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:09,160
Speaker 1: try to deal with Bowie, and Right draws another pistol

1039
00:55:09,239 --> 00:55:11,719
Speaker 1: and aims at at Bowie, who yells back at him,

1040
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:19,320
Speaker 1: you damned rascal. Don't you shoot. Don't you dare shoot me,

1041
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:27,640
Speaker 1: you rascal, You damned rascal. Yeah, he swore. Norris Wright

1042
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:30,080
Speaker 1: like stands there with a gun pointed at Bowie and

1043
00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: the two shout at each other for a while until

1044
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,839
Speaker 1: one of Bowie's friends runs up and hands Jim a gun,

1045
00:55:35,360 --> 00:55:38,120
Speaker 1: and both men fire at each other at point blank range,

1046
00:55:38,160 --> 00:55:45,719
Speaker 1: and of course both miss. Again. Yeah, that's so bad

1047
00:55:45,800 --> 00:55:50,320
Speaker 1: at shooting each other. So Right pulls his second pistol

1048
00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:52,880
Speaker 1: and Bowie yells at him to shoot and be damned,

1049
00:55:53,239 --> 00:55:55,880
Speaker 1: and Right shoots again, and of course he misses a

1050
00:55:56,000 --> 00:56:03,080
Speaker 1: second time. Now at this point, one of the few

1051
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:07,360
Speaker 1: not dangerously unhinged men present, a guy named Denny, runs

1052
00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:10,080
Speaker 1: up in between Bowie and Wright and pleads with Bowie,

1053
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:13,279
Speaker 1: this must be stopped, sir, this must be stopped. He's

1054
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:16,080
Speaker 1: just like, please, for the love of God, stop fighting.

1055
00:56:16,160 --> 00:56:18,920
Speaker 1: And he puts a hand on Bowie's chest just as

1056
00:56:19,080 --> 00:56:22,480
Speaker 1: Right draws a third pistol and fires again and hits.

1057
00:56:22,880 --> 00:56:28,080
Speaker 1: So he finally did hit somebody. Um So the ball

1058
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,680
Speaker 1: passes through directly through Denny's hand in it into Jim

1059
00:56:31,719 --> 00:56:35,279
Speaker 1: Bowie's lung, and with a concussion and a bullet in

1060
00:56:35,320 --> 00:56:39,239
Speaker 1: their lung, most men probably would have stopped fighting. But

1061
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,040
Speaker 1: as one of Jim Bowie's friends later noted, if there

1062
00:56:42,080 --> 00:56:44,919
Speaker 1: ever lived a man who never felt the sensation of fear,

1063
00:56:45,000 --> 00:56:47,200
Speaker 1: it was James Bowie. It was his habit to settle

1064
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:49,840
Speaker 1: all difficulties without regard to time or place, and this

1065
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,840
Speaker 1: it was the same whether he met one or many enemies.

1066
00:56:53,440 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: So Jim Bowie, bullet and his lung and a fucking

1067
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 1: concussion charges Norris Right, waving a gigantic knife. He got

1068
00:57:00,000 --> 00:57:03,279
Speaker 1: about fifteen feet when two of Wright's friends arrived with

1069
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,439
Speaker 1: fresh guns and opened fire. One bullet hit Jim Bowie

1070
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 1: in the thigh and took him down again. Now Right

1071
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:11,800
Speaker 1: had been running away from the madman with the sword,

1072
00:57:12,120 --> 00:57:14,880
Speaker 1: but as soon as Bowie dropped Norris Wright whipped out

1073
00:57:14,920 --> 00:57:21,760
Speaker 1: a sword cane and charged him again. Now the guy

1074
00:57:21,840 --> 00:57:24,120
Speaker 1: who shot Bowie in the thigh also pulled out a

1075
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:26,880
Speaker 1: sword cane, and the two just start stabbing Jim Bowie

1076
00:57:26,920 --> 00:57:33,440
Speaker 1: to death a bunch. So the next moment in this

1077
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:35,880
Speaker 1: fight is the one that would earn the name Bowie

1078
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:38,560
Speaker 1: Knife a proud place in the long history of human

1079
00:57:38,640 --> 00:57:41,960
Speaker 1: fighting implements. Shot through the lung and the thigh, probably

1080
00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:46,280
Speaker 1: can coast and repeatedly stabbed with sword canes canes, Bowie

1081
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,360
Speaker 1: draws his giant knife again and fights off both men's

1082
00:57:49,360 --> 00:57:52,440
Speaker 1: sword canes, parrying their jabs with his mighty dagger. He

1083
00:57:52,560 --> 00:57:55,280
Speaker 1: gashed both of them repeatedly on the hands in the arms.

1084
00:57:55,640 --> 00:57:57,840
Speaker 1: In response, they stab him through the hands and the wrist.

1085
00:57:58,160 --> 00:58:00,439
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote now from William C. David, his book

1086
00:58:00,440 --> 00:58:03,720
Speaker 1: on how the fight ended. Quote Bowie got himself up

1087
00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:06,040
Speaker 1: to a sitting position. Then in one lunge, he reached

1088
00:58:06,120 --> 00:58:08,160
Speaker 1: up to grab Norris Right by the collar and his

1089
00:58:08,320 --> 00:58:11,040
Speaker 1: right tried to straighten himself, he inadvertently helped raise Bowie

1090
00:58:11,120 --> 00:58:13,760
Speaker 1: to a near standing position. As Bowie later told the

1091
00:58:13,800 --> 00:58:17,280
Speaker 1: story to Reson in Their Friend, he said in Wright's ear, now, Major,

1092
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:20,200
Speaker 1: you die with a single savage thrust. He drove the

1093
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:23,240
Speaker 1: knife through Right's chest, boasting afterwards that he twisted it

1094
00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,600
Speaker 1: to cut his heart strings. Ah, well he's not, he's not.

1095
00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:30,480
Speaker 1: That's not how that works. But yeah, he guts him

1096
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 1: is how most people related. Is he just he pulls

1097
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: this guy down while being stabbed and just opens his

1098
00:58:36,680 --> 00:58:40,800
Speaker 1: belly with his gigantic sword knife, and yeah, it kills

1099
00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:45,440
Speaker 1: the ship out of him. Yeah. So Jim Bowie passes

1100
00:58:45,480 --> 00:58:48,680
Speaker 1: out immediately after stabbing Norris Right to death, and the

1101
00:58:48,760 --> 00:58:51,520
Speaker 1: attending physician who observed him after this found a gash

1102
00:58:51,600 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 1: on his forehead, seven stab wounds, and two bullet wounds.

1103
00:58:55,040 --> 00:58:56,880
Speaker 1: They all kind of assumed he was going to die

1104
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:59,000
Speaker 1: of his injuries, but he didn't, and over the next

1105
00:58:59,040 --> 00:59:02,840
Speaker 1: two months, Jimbowie gradually recovered from his many injuries. Meanwhile,

1106
00:59:02,920 --> 00:59:04,720
Speaker 1: the story of how he stabbed a dude to death

1107
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:12,520
Speaker 1: became national news. So most duels were all like regional stories, um,

1108
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:14,840
Speaker 1: and it wasn't a common people to die in them.

1109
00:59:14,920 --> 00:59:18,320
Speaker 1: But the Sandbar fight became legend for one reason. Jim

1110
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:22,080
Speaker 1: Bowie Davis writes that in typical frontier fights quote, the

1111
00:59:22,160 --> 00:59:24,480
Speaker 1: real fighters risked themselves only when they seem to have

1112
00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:27,760
Speaker 1: the advantage and happily ran to cover otherwise. But Booie,

1113
00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:30,080
Speaker 1: impelled by the rage that blinded him to fear or

1114
00:59:30,080 --> 00:59:33,120
Speaker 1: self protection, stood his ground and simply kept fighting. That

1115
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:35,680
Speaker 1: was the sort of thing that turned brutal, pointless brawling

1116
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:42,560
Speaker 1: into legend. Yeah he does, because yeah, you're not human anymore. Yeah,

1117
00:59:42,640 --> 00:59:44,840
Speaker 1: it's totally human to like stand in front of another

1118
00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:46,400
Speaker 1: guy and you both shoot at each other and one

1119
00:59:46,400 --> 00:59:50,200
Speaker 1: of you dies, and when he doesn't what Bowie does, Like, Yeah,

1120
00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:52,760
Speaker 1: he because he's like a fucking superhero, because he does

1121
00:59:52,840 --> 00:59:56,120
Speaker 1: he survives this, and because he goes so fucking far

1122
00:59:56,240 --> 00:59:58,880
Speaker 1: beyond what any rational person would do in the era.

1123
00:59:59,240 --> 01:00:01,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, there's also probably he's not the guy that

1124
01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 1: like afterwards, while he's like healing, he's also enough the

1125
01:00:05,080 --> 01:00:10,920
Speaker 1: kind of guy I was, like, I got carried away. No, No,

1126
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,720
Speaker 1: he was just like, yeah, come at me again. Yeah,

1127
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:19,040
Speaker 1: you out. And that's exactly what happens. So newspapers write

1128
01:00:19,200 --> 01:00:22,040
Speaker 1: huge spreads about the Sandbar Fight, and of course they

1129
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 1: exaggerate everything that happens in it, and people are in

1130
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,600
Speaker 1: Americas start talking about Jim Booie, and Booie's canny enough

1131
01:00:27,640 --> 01:00:30,680
Speaker 1: to lean into the legend. So he spent weeks bedridden

1132
01:00:30,960 --> 01:00:33,800
Speaker 1: like from gunshot wounds, but he would invite reporters and

1133
01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:35,120
Speaker 1: to talk to him, and he would tell all of

1134
01:00:35,160 --> 01:00:36,720
Speaker 1: them the story of the fight. And he would always

1135
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:38,800
Speaker 1: have his knife strapped to his chest while he was

1136
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:40,480
Speaker 1: in his sick bed so he could show it off

1137
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:43,240
Speaker 1: to reporters and the steady stream of well wishers who

1138
01:00:43,280 --> 01:00:47,240
Speaker 1: came by to talk to him. Um. So the bowie

1139
01:00:47,280 --> 01:00:50,200
Speaker 1: knife becomes incredibly famous as a result of this, and

1140
01:00:50,320 --> 01:00:54,959
Speaker 1: suddenly like every guy who feels who wants to feel

1141
01:00:55,040 --> 01:00:58,200
Speaker 1: like a badass, has to have a bowie knife. Um.

1142
01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:00,640
Speaker 1: And I found a fun right up on sort of

1143
01:01:00,720 --> 01:01:02,320
Speaker 1: the spread of the Booeye knife in the wake of this,

1144
01:01:02,480 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: by a site called the History Bandits, and it is

1145
01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:06,440
Speaker 1: a pretty good job of tracing how Jim and all

1146
01:01:06,480 --> 01:01:09,280
Speaker 1: of his brothers capitalized on the fame of the family

1147
01:01:09,360 --> 01:01:13,200
Speaker 1: knife quote. The Bowie family quickly made efforts to actively

1148
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:16,400
Speaker 1: link the Bowie name with the famous knife's design and quality.

1149
01:01:16,480 --> 01:01:19,280
Speaker 1: Bowie's older brother, Resin, who would have allegedly given Jim

1150
01:01:19,360 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: his blade before the Sandbar incident, began promoting similar knives,

1151
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:24,960
Speaker 1: which he advertised more trustworthy in the hands of a

1152
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:27,400
Speaker 1: strong man than a pistol, which, given the fact that

1153
01:01:27,480 --> 01:01:31,960
Speaker 1: everyone missed at the duel, is not necessarily inaccurate at

1154
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,960
Speaker 1: the time of it. Yeah Yeah. Within months of the incident,

1155
01:01:35,000 --> 01:01:36,840
Speaker 1: the name of Bowie was forever linked with the large,

1156
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,400
Speaker 1: hilted knives of the southern back country. As the story

1157
01:01:39,440 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: of Jim Bowie's feats with his knife spread, blacksmiths across

1158
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:44,680
Speaker 1: the country began to receive requests from customers to make

1159
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:47,600
Speaker 1: them a knife like Bowie's. As far afield as England,

1160
01:01:47,600 --> 01:01:49,960
Speaker 1: the Bowie knife became a novelty in knife shops, and

1161
01:01:50,040 --> 01:01:52,440
Speaker 1: easterners of the United States purchase Booie knives is a

1162
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:55,240
Speaker 1: symbol of the frontier. Even backwoodsman who were used to

1163
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:58,040
Speaker 1: such knives adopted the new terminology of the eighteen thirties

1164
01:01:58,200 --> 01:02:01,440
Speaker 1: and requested buoy knives. It's by name, It's Smithy's from St.

1165
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 1: Louis to the Mexican border. The Red Rible, The Red

1166
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: River Herald of Necatochez, Louisiana, claimed that, with hyperbole, that

1167
01:02:09,200 --> 01:02:11,720
Speaker 1: all the steel in the country, it seemed, had immediately

1168
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:15,120
Speaker 1: been converted into Booie knives. By eighteen thirty, the Booie

1169
01:02:15,160 --> 01:02:18,440
Speaker 1: knife became a staple at forgeries across the American continent.

1170
01:02:18,840 --> 01:02:27,560
Speaker 1: So that's cool. Yeah, it's just it's yeah, it's reassuring

1171
01:02:27,640 --> 01:02:31,320
Speaker 1: that America has always kind of been like this. Yeah,

1172
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:33,840
Speaker 1: it's fun. The right up I found on this actually

1173
01:02:33,880 --> 01:02:38,120
Speaker 1: compares the Booie Brothers in particular to Bear Grills Um,

1174
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 1: because Bear Girls has like an incredibly popular series of

1175
01:02:41,400 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 1: knives UM made just based off the fact that he's

1176
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:46,520
Speaker 1: good at being in the woods and has been on

1177
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:49,520
Speaker 1: camera like using you know, camping knives and stuff. So

1178
01:02:49,640 --> 01:02:53,160
Speaker 1: like the knife companies like Gerber like, hey, what if

1179
01:02:53,200 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 1: we made a knife and stick your name on it,

1180
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:56,880
Speaker 1: And sure enough, now they're incredibly pop You can find

1181
01:02:56,960 --> 01:02:59,280
Speaker 1: them in any outdoorsman story and they're not bad knives. Um.

1182
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:01,760
Speaker 1: I don't like the hill very much, but whatever, Uh,

1183
01:03:02,040 --> 01:03:05,360
Speaker 1: so in the Booie Like, what I find interesting about

1184
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: this right up is that they kind of say make

1185
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 1: the point that, like the Bowie family is the first,

1186
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:13,400
Speaker 1: the first in that line. Like they do basically what

1187
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:16,400
Speaker 1: Bear Gruels has done. They create a brand with their

1188
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:20,080
Speaker 1: family name for giant fuck off knives. That's kind of

1189
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:24,840
Speaker 1: neat the duck dudes too, Yeah, like Duck dynasty. This

1190
01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:28,360
Speaker 1: is like the very first time that happened in American history, right,

1191
01:03:28,400 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 1: The Bowie family definitely has some powerful Duck dynasty energy

1192
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:35,400
Speaker 1: to it. Well, it's the same area, yeah, and it

1193
01:03:35,560 --> 01:03:40,439
Speaker 1: is the same area. They might in fact be related. Well, yes,

1194
01:03:40,600 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: there's not a lot of people down there because they

1195
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:48,880
Speaker 1: get killing each other. Yeah. So yeah, Jim Bowie, slave trader,

1196
01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:53,040
Speaker 1: land con artist, and guy who stabbed a person to

1197
01:03:53,160 --> 01:03:56,880
Speaker 1: death becomes a celebrity mainly for stabbing a person to death.

1198
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:00,240
Speaker 1: And uh yeah, we'll talk about what comes next and

1199
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:02,840
Speaker 1: how he gets to the Alamo in part two. But

1200
01:04:03,080 --> 01:04:05,760
Speaker 1: right now, Billy, it's time for you to celebrate your

1201
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 1: own knife. What would a Billy knife be, Billy, it

1202
01:04:08,800 --> 01:04:12,080
Speaker 1: would probably just be like a form of the kukrie.

1203
01:04:12,840 --> 01:04:14,520
Speaker 1: You would want it to be a cookery kind of

1204
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:18,640
Speaker 1: like that. I really I'm enjoying the cookery. I like

1205
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,800
Speaker 1: it a lot. Yeah, cookeries are nice. I enjoy the uh.

1206
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: I enjoy the the feel of a kukery. If I

1207
01:04:26,400 --> 01:04:28,800
Speaker 1: was going to have a Robert knife, I would want

1208
01:04:28,840 --> 01:04:32,000
Speaker 1: it to be I wanted to be a knife that's

1209
01:04:32,000 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 1: too large to be wielded. I would like it to

1210
01:04:33,920 --> 01:04:36,200
Speaker 1: be like a hunting knife, but one that has to

1211
01:04:36,240 --> 01:04:38,040
Speaker 1: actually be mounted to the bed of a truck. Like

1212
01:04:38,080 --> 01:04:39,720
Speaker 1: you know how they have technicals in the Middle East

1213
01:04:39,760 --> 01:04:41,920
Speaker 1: with machine guns in the back. I want that, but

1214
01:04:42,040 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: with a knife that you have to like drive at

1215
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:47,080
Speaker 1: a target you want to stab it. You just want

1216
01:04:47,120 --> 01:04:50,040
Speaker 1: a bayonet for a Humby, Yeah, I want a bayonet

1217
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:52,840
Speaker 1: for I'm more like a bayonet for an eighteen wheeler.

1218
01:04:53,120 --> 01:04:56,120
Speaker 1: That's pretty cool. Yeah, yeah, that would be. I would

1219
01:04:56,160 --> 01:04:58,560
Speaker 1: like a Robert knife to be a knife that requires

1220
01:04:58,600 --> 01:05:01,680
Speaker 1: as much steel as a small skyscraper. That would be.

1221
01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:06,560
Speaker 1: That would be the legacy I'd like to have. If

1222
01:05:06,800 --> 01:05:08,960
Speaker 1: they ever give us the TV show, we could make

1223
01:05:09,000 --> 01:05:13,200
Speaker 1: that happen. We could make that happen. All right, Well, um,

1224
01:05:13,480 --> 01:05:18,320
Speaker 1: if you want me to uh get my own branded knife,

1225
01:05:18,720 --> 01:05:22,400
Speaker 1: uh find bear girls on Twitter and send him pictures,

1226
01:05:22,640 --> 01:05:25,280
Speaker 1: send him your favorite Simpsons screen grab. Let's make it

1227
01:05:25,360 --> 01:05:28,320
Speaker 1: confusing for old bear. Um. And if you want to

1228
01:05:28,360 --> 01:05:29,920
Speaker 1: find us on the internet, you can find us at

1229
01:05:29,920 --> 01:05:32,040
Speaker 1: Behind the Bastards dot com. Uh, you can find t

1230
01:05:32,160 --> 01:05:34,280
Speaker 1: shirts on t public. And I have a podcast called

1231
01:05:34,400 --> 01:05:38,400
Speaker 1: The Women's War that is about Rojava and uh does

1232
01:05:38,600 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: include a little bit about knives. So there we go.

1233
01:05:41,880 --> 01:05:47,240
Speaker 1: It's an optimistic podcast. It is optimistic. Also optimistic is

1234
01:05:47,280 --> 01:05:49,760
Speaker 1: my co host today, Mr Billy Wayne Davis. Billy, you

1235
01:05:49,800 --> 01:05:52,240
Speaker 1: want to tell the people where they can find you? Yes,

1236
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:56,720
Speaker 1: I at Billy Wayne Davis on Twitter and Instagraham. If

1237
01:05:56,720 --> 01:05:59,560
Speaker 1: I ever start touring again, we're allowed to bet bd

1238
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 1: tour dot com. And then I have a podcast about

1239
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 1: the people that make up cannabis communities and it's called

1240
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:10,960
Speaker 1: Grown Local. In season one is based in Eugene, or

1241
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 1: speaking of both the marijuana industry and Eugene, Oregon. A

1242
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:17,480
Speaker 1: lot of people getting stabbed to death with large knives.

1243
01:06:18,600 --> 01:06:21,920
Speaker 1: Definitely lots of that, not in your podcast, necessarily, just

1244
01:06:22,160 --> 01:06:26,560
Speaker 1: in the industry and in Eugene, Oregon. Yeah, and probably

1245
01:06:26,720 --> 01:06:33,400
Speaker 1: not even related, no no, no, I mean yeah, alright,

1246
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 1: Episode done