WEBVTT - The Hype About Hyperloop 0:00:04.200 --> 0:00:07.160 Get in test with technology with tech Stuff from how 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:14.600 stuff works dot com. Hey there, everyone, and welcome to 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:17.760 text Stuff. I'm Jonathan Strickland and today I'm joined by 0:00:17.800 --> 0:00:21.320 a very special guest host while Lauren is out watching 0:00:21.320 --> 0:00:22.920 one of our friends get married to one of our 0:00:22.960 --> 0:00:26.600 other friends. And that guest host is Ben Bolan. Hey, Jonathan, 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:30.040 thank you for having me on the show. Uh, longtime fan, 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:33.280 first time co host. Yep, that's true. I hope anyway, 0:00:33.400 --> 0:00:36.000 why I know the cost part is true? Anyway, this 0:00:36.040 --> 0:00:38.720 actually means that we have both members of a particular 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.440 house stuff works podcast as guest hosts at some point 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:44.800 in the history of the show. Yeah, that's right, good 0:00:44.800 --> 0:00:48.520 call man. Uh, longtime tech stuff fans will remember that 0:00:48.880 --> 0:00:52.479 one of my co host, uh, the legendary Matt Frederick, 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:56.400 made a guest appearance on tech Stuff right many many 0:00:56.480 --> 0:01:00.520 moons ago. So anyway, we are great full to have 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.840 you here. And uh, you know you you're you're kind 0:01:03.840 --> 0:01:08.160 of sort of a transportation guru by now, I would say, 0:01:08.360 --> 0:01:11.680 And I asked Ben what topic would he like to cover, 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:14.839 and he said, Hey, have you guys covered hyper loop? 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:17.640 And that's when I had to kind of kick the 0:01:17.680 --> 0:01:20.200 ground and look at the look at the ground, and 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:23.959 then say no, because we did an episode about Elon Musk, 0:01:24.000 --> 0:01:25.880 who has a lot to do with hyper loop, but 0:01:25.959 --> 0:01:29.520 we did that on March thirteen, and he didn't talk 0:01:29.520 --> 0:01:32.600 about hyper loop until like June. Yeah, this is a 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:35.880 pretty This is a fairly recent development in the context 0:01:35.920 --> 0:01:39.360 of his career. Now, Elon Musk. For anybody who hasn't 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:42.880 checked out the Tech Stuff episode on you, yeah, shame on. 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:47.080 You get the to a speaker of some sort, find 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.160 an RSS feed or iTunes or something and download that 0:01:50.160 --> 0:01:54.080 and listen to it. We'll wait, Okay, welcome back, Welcome back. 0:01:54.120 --> 0:01:56.640 And that was what you just listened to if you 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.600 hadn't heard it before. Was a great overview of this 0:02:00.640 --> 0:02:04.840 inventor's life, including his origin story and the companies he's 0:02:04.840 --> 0:02:08.840 been associated with. Jonathan if if I could defer to 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:12.519 you for a quick recap of l mu s okay 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:14.760 so um. He came up with a little idea that 0:02:14.800 --> 0:02:19.399 would eventually be called PayPal. PayPal is, of course, a 0:02:19.480 --> 0:02:22.160 payment system that you can use online. You can create 0:02:22.200 --> 0:02:25.880 an account through PayPal, and it allows you to process 0:02:25.960 --> 0:02:30.160 payments or to to make payments to vendors. That accept PayPal, 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:34.160 particularly things like eBay. But it was one of those 0:02:34.200 --> 0:02:37.800 ideas to try and make online transactions secure and easy, 0:02:37.919 --> 0:02:40.920 so that maybe you didn't want to um to hand 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:43.359 over your credit card information every time. Maybe you wanted 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:46.440 to create a special bank account and then make that 0:02:46.520 --> 0:02:49.320 a PayPal account, and so you could do transfers in 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:51.600 a more secure format. You knew that you had a 0:02:51.639 --> 0:02:54.040 certain amount of money in that account, nothing beyond that 0:02:54.120 --> 0:02:57.119 was ever going to get tampered with. Yeah, it kind 0:02:57.120 --> 0:03:01.360 of controlled your risks. Yeah, absolutely. And now, of course, 0:03:01.480 --> 0:03:04.840 as we've talked about with inventors in the past, because 0:03:05.120 --> 0:03:08.239 you've also done a show called Stuff of Genius, so 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:13.119 we know that often when somebody invents something that appears 0:03:13.160 --> 0:03:15.680 to be new, they're standing on the shoulders of giants 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:20.760 earlier innovations. PayPal not necessarily the first time someone attempted 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.200 to do this, but by far the most successful instance. Yeah. Yeah, 0:03:24.200 --> 0:03:27.600 And and even that was not Elon Musk's first foray 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:31.640 into business. He had tried a few times, but PayPal was, 0:03:32.080 --> 0:03:37.200 I guess you could say ridiculously successful. It gave him 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.320 the freedom to pursue whatever else he wanted to do 0:03:40.360 --> 0:03:43.600 because he made so much money so quickly that the 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:47.520 constraints were off, and so he began to pursue another 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.040 interest of his, which was, you know, cars that go 0:03:51.200 --> 0:03:56.960 really fast. Yes, Tesla Motors, another little company by Musk 0:03:57.080 --> 0:03:58.880 that some of you may have heard of, you know, 0:03:59.400 --> 0:04:03.120 Scott Anagement and I cover this often on car stuff 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:06.560 and tech stuff. Has also looked into some of the 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:11.120 fascinating innovations and technology here. Uh. So we've got a 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.920 guy who's done PayPal, We've got a guy who's done 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:20.239 Tesla Motors. Uh. He also was interested in another transportation initiative. Yeah, 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:23.000 before we even get to hyperlop. He was interested in 0:04:23.320 --> 0:04:27.800 a transportation that would send you up, like really really up, 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:30.919 and not not balloons on a house. No, no, not 0:04:30.920 --> 0:04:33.520 not not that up. No. We're talking, of course about 0:04:33.560 --> 0:04:39.360 space X, which is a privatized space initiative. Really it's 0:04:39.480 --> 0:04:43.520 it's the business of getting things up into space. Because, 0:04:43.520 --> 0:04:47.880 as we all know, NASA was getting further and further 0:04:48.080 --> 0:04:50.880 budget cuts as time was going on, and it became 0:04:50.920 --> 0:04:53.560 apparent that if we weren't going to have a public 0:04:53.760 --> 0:04:57.359 space industry, something that was funded by the government, then 0:04:57.520 --> 0:05:00.200 if we still wanted to pursue things in space, and 0:05:00.240 --> 0:05:03.120 we do because there's a lot of important stuff out there, 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:07.520 communication satellites being one of the simplest to explain. It 0:05:07.600 --> 0:05:10.039 meant that we had to have some private industry step in. 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:12.839 And so Musk said, you know, I think this is 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.120 something else that I'm really interested in. I've always been 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.279 interested in space. And he began to devote quite a 0:05:18.279 --> 0:05:23.680 bit of time and money and resources to creating a 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:29.240 viable private space enterprise, and in fact, but not the spaceship, 0:05:29.240 --> 0:05:32.479 and that would have been probably a little beyond even 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:39.320 his amazing reach it. Yeah, so mostly what he's looking 0:05:39.360 --> 0:05:44.000 at is our ways to try and create an economically 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:50.280 feasible private space enterprise. And he talked a lot about 0:05:50.320 --> 0:05:53.680 how that's difficult to do because you have very limited 0:05:54.400 --> 0:05:58.120 vendors from whom you can get the important components for 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:01.360 your rockets. So he remember specifically, he pointed out this 0:06:01.360 --> 0:06:03.919 problem he had in Russia, where he would be quoted 0:06:04.000 --> 0:06:07.240 a price, he would agree to purchase a certain number 0:06:07.400 --> 0:06:10.679 of units of rockets at that price, and then upon 0:06:11.040 --> 0:06:15.000 the actual manufacture of it, be told, oh we're sorry, 0:06:15.560 --> 0:06:17.520 I know, we said that was gonna be twenty million 0:06:17.520 --> 0:06:19.760 dollars for all of these but it's actually gonna be 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:23.160 twenty million per rocket. Yeah, something along those lines. It's 0:06:23.160 --> 0:06:25.000 just yeah. And he talked about how, you know, you 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.039 have to deal with these things, and that it gave 0:06:27.160 --> 0:06:30.320 him a lot of uh experience and knowledge about the 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:33.839 industry and how to try and and get around that 0:06:33.920 --> 0:06:36.440 by making as much of the stuff yourself as possible. 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:37.920 In fact, that was one of the things he said, 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:42.160 like this explains why NASA budgets go out of control. 0:06:42.200 --> 0:06:45.200 It's not that they're poorly managed. It's that you have 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:48.120 such limited resources to go to to get what you 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:52.000 need that you're kind of held hostage by them. So, 0:06:52.240 --> 0:06:55.919 but that all of these interests are stuff that we 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:58.720 had already talked about on tech stuff, right. Yes, that 0:06:58.880 --> 0:07:02.040 was the quick, dirty recap of the episode you should 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.120 listen to in full. We say all of this to 0:07:05.240 --> 0:07:09.720 say that Musk has some street cred. He's not just 0:07:09.880 --> 0:07:13.680 some guy, you know making a YouTube video. Uh. He 0:07:13.920 --> 0:07:21.400 is proposing another transit innovation, another potential transit innovation, and 0:07:21.640 --> 0:07:25.760 that would be the hyper loop. But my first question, you, Jonathan, 0:07:25.800 --> 0:07:29.480 we're talking hyper loop, what what is it? Well, if 0:07:29.560 --> 0:07:32.720 we were to take elon Musk's own words, and this 0:07:32.800 --> 0:07:36.600 is somewhat paraphrased from an interview he gave at the 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.560 D eleven event. He said, it's a cross between a 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.680 concorde and a rail gun and an air hockey table. 0:07:42.960 --> 0:07:45.840 He added the air hockey table last, like he said 0:07:45.840 --> 0:07:48.400 concorde and a railgun first, and I got a great responses. 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:50.760 You know, technically, if I really want to blow your minds, 0:07:50.800 --> 0:07:52.680 I need to add in the fact that there's an 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.000 air hockey table element in there too, and uh. Then 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:58.840 he made uh an inappropriate joke, But essentially he said 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:00.920 that if these three things got together and had nice 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:03.880 romantic times, hyper loop would be the bibbet that would 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:07.520 be produced as a result. So now that that alone 0:08:07.760 --> 0:08:10.160 doesn't really tell you what hyper loop is. And I 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:13.760 think that was actually Musk's point. He knew he didn't 0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:16.520 want to spoil the surprise at that event, so he 0:08:16.560 --> 0:08:19.040 wanted to give just enough information for people to get 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.920 curious about it, but not enough to actually explain what 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:25.120 it was. Right, and one of the things one of 0:08:25.160 --> 0:08:28.640 the best ways for us to approach this over the 0:08:28.680 --> 0:08:31.200 course of this episode, I think we're going to go 0:08:31.360 --> 0:08:35.640 into what the science behind a hyper loop. Uh, you know, 0:08:35.720 --> 0:08:39.200 maybe some pros, some cons some similar systems. Uh, the 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:43.160 elevator pitch. We we can't really beat that great quote 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.240 about but if you want to, if you want something 0:08:46.280 --> 0:08:49.400 that's a little easier to actually visualize beyond the fact 0:08:49.440 --> 0:08:51.920 that what you're gonna shoot people through some form of 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:56.640 high energy mechanism and they're just gonna fly across you 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.840 and you get points if they hit the gold was this, Yeah, 0:08:59.880 --> 0:09:02.199 but no, it's it's more like, all right, so it's 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:06.080 it's an elevated system in more ways than one. For one, 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:07.880 it's going to if it were to be built, it 0:09:07.880 --> 0:09:10.640 would be built on pylons that would go and hold 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:15.200 the the whole system above ground. Um. It's was proposed 0:09:15.440 --> 0:09:18.800 to be between Los Angeles and San Francisco. Yes, with 0:09:18.960 --> 0:09:22.960 an incredibly short transit time. Yeah, we'll get into that. 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.000 I don't want to spoil it, but but it's it's 0:09:26.040 --> 0:09:29.079 the ideas that the capsules that you would travel in 0:09:29.120 --> 0:09:30.839 it wouldn't be a train. It would be a sort 0:09:30.880 --> 0:09:34.000 of a capsule that could hold a certain number of people. Um. 0:09:34.040 --> 0:09:38.320 That these these capsules would float above the floor of 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.800 the system. The whole thing would be inside a tunnel 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:43.800 that's on top of these pylons, so it's all enclosed, 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.920 but the capsule would float above the ground, so that 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:50.640 means you've eliminated friction from the wheel. There's no wheels 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:56.840 to which and then it would be propelled down this tube, 0:09:57.360 --> 0:10:00.040 which also would have very low air pressure, so you 0:10:00.040 --> 0:10:02.880 would have low air resistance. It's a partial vacuum. Yeah, 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:04.960 we'll talk a little bit more about that too in 0:10:05.000 --> 0:10:08.360 a second. So essentially you're talking about some sort of 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:10.959 imagine a straw, but the straw has closed off at 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:14.040 both ends more or less, there's there's a little bit 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.160 of a gap in there to allow some air passage. 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:19.439 And then imagine a p that's inside, like a dry 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.960 p that's inside that that straw, And then imagine that 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:27.720 you have somehow maybe bombarded that p with electrons so 0:10:27.760 --> 0:10:30.840 that now has built up a negative electrostatic charge, and 0:10:30.840 --> 0:10:34.600 then you put another negative magnet end next to it, 0:10:34.679 --> 0:10:37.160 and it would zip across to the other end of 0:10:37.200 --> 0:10:42.760 the tube. In a very very oversimplified way, that's what 0:10:42.840 --> 0:10:47.560 the hyper loop is. And yes, you are inside, so 0:10:47.640 --> 0:10:51.480 you yeah, obviously there's some questions that we have to answer, 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.600 but that's the general idea. So you know, this is 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:58.760 this is actually it's we'll talk about this too. This 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.120 is not the first time this kind of system has 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:04.400 been proposed, And in fact, there's a really interesting story 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:07.360 we'll get to about another person who has proposed a 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.280 very similar system that they've they've been talking about for 0:11:10.320 --> 0:11:13.560 a couple of years before Musk ever said anything, and 0:11:13.960 --> 0:11:18.240 they received a slightly different reaction, I would say, than 0:11:18.400 --> 0:11:21.640 what Musk has received. Um, and we'll we'll have to 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:24.640 talk about spoilers. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's just just teasing you. 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:28.319 So hyper Loop essentially, what we're getting at is it's 0:11:28.360 --> 0:11:33.080 a high speed transportation system that allows multiple passengers to 0:11:33.120 --> 0:11:35.920 go between the cities of Los Angeles and San Francisco, 0:11:35.920 --> 0:11:40.000 at least initially, should never be built. Yeah, and uh, also, 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:42.800 of course the questions that we need to address that 0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.400 are going to be popping up in everybody's head. Um. 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:47.400 I I just want to put this on the radar 0:11:47.760 --> 0:11:51.360 for the very end of the show, Jonathan. The question 0:11:51.400 --> 0:11:53.400 I want to us both to attempt to answer the 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:56.600 very end of the show is this vaporware. That's an 0:11:56.640 --> 0:11:59.040 excellent question. And yes, I think that we will have 0:11:59.160 --> 0:12:01.720 to kind of give our own opinions on that at 0:12:01.760 --> 0:12:04.600 the very end. So we've got a lot to talk about. 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:07.800 But before we get into the nitty gritty about exactly 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.120 how this thing is supposed to work, should it ever 0:12:10.160 --> 0:12:13.440 be built, let's take a quick break and thank our sponsor. 0:12:14.040 --> 0:12:16.839 You've probably tried Hulu dot com now. With Hulu Plus, 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.120 you can watch your favorite shows anytime, anywhere. Hulu Plus 0:12:20.200 --> 0:12:22.240 lets you watch thousands of hit TV shows in a 0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.880 selection of acclaimed movies on your television or on the 0:12:24.920 --> 0:12:27.520 go with your smartphone or tablet, and it all streams 0:12:27.520 --> 0:12:30.520 an HD for the best viewing experience. 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Make sure you use 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:05.520 Hulu Plus dot Com Forward slash Tech so you get 0:13:05.520 --> 0:13:08.040 the extended free trial and they know that we sent you. 0:13:08.320 --> 0:13:10.960 Go to Hulu Plus dot Com Forward slash Tech now. 0:13:11.520 --> 0:13:14.200 And as for shows I like to watch on Hulu Plus, 0:13:14.679 --> 0:13:19.040 Agents of Shield is a big one, actually, because occasionally 0:13:19.080 --> 0:13:21.160 I'm traveling and I miss stuff and when I come back, 0:13:21.200 --> 0:13:23.040 I want to catch up and see what's going on. 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:25.480 I feel that shows really just now starting to hit 0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:27.360 it stride. I think it might have struggled a little 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:30.080 early in the Marvel universe. It's so huge, and then 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:32.840 you're dealing with these you know, human people and how 0:13:32.920 --> 0:13:35.240 they are interacting in this world, and I think they're 0:13:35.280 --> 0:13:38.440 really getting into some interesting territory. So that's a recommendation 0:13:38.480 --> 0:13:41.000 for me. You should go check it out. Alright, so 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:46.480 we're back, Let's talk about how the hyperloop would actually work. Now, 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:48.880 you remember I was mentioning that whole idea of a 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:52.280 closed off straw with a p in it. Yeah, so 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.680 if you know that's that's that's okay, except for the 0:13:55.679 --> 0:13:57.880 fact that if you have air in that tube and 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:00.160 the air doesn't have anywhere to go. That p is 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:02.280 going to be pushing against the air in that tube, 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:04.760 and even if there's space around the PA, it's not 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.079 going to go as fast as it could if there 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.040 were no air at all, right, Right, The air resistance 0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:14.080 is one of the biggest speed killers. Yeah, so there 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:16.840 you might have heard of some maglev trains, you know, 0:14:16.960 --> 0:14:22.560 trains that actually float above the track through magnetic levitation. 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.320 And by magnetic levitation, we're esimibly talking about magnets that 0:14:25.400 --> 0:14:30.560 repel one another and maintain the trains distance above a tract. 0:14:30.720 --> 0:14:33.880 Usually it's it's like just a tiny distance above it, right, 0:14:33.920 --> 0:14:36.680 and that's you know, and this this helps reduce friction 0:14:36.720 --> 0:14:39.480 for those those sorts of systems. I think what we're 0:14:39.480 --> 0:14:42.640 seeing here is that these can be thought of as 0:14:42.920 --> 0:14:47.000 similar in some ways, but they have they have very 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:51.720 different mechanisms. And also, you know, if you have a 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:54.960 maglev train that's in an uncovered track, then it still 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:57.320 has to deal with that air resistance. You know, it's 0:14:57.360 --> 0:15:00.120 top speed is going to be mitigated by the but 0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:03.640 it has to put push against air. So one of 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:07.400 the elements of this hyper loop system is it would 0:15:07.440 --> 0:15:10.360 be at a very low pressure, you would have have 0:15:10.440 --> 0:15:13.720 a near vacuum, but not a total vacuum. Total vacuum 0:15:13.760 --> 0:15:16.920 is very difficult to maintain if you are talking about 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:21.480 a significantly long tube, right, Yeah. Total vacuum is in 0:15:21.560 --> 0:15:26.240 fact so difficult to maintain that even if one could 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:29.960 just throw billions of dollars at the problem making really 0:15:30.000 --> 0:15:33.840 long when uh, it might be impossible to do it effectively. 0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.400 You would have to have some form of of you know, 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.960 vacuum stations all along the tube just to constantly deal 0:15:40.000 --> 0:15:44.360 with any differentiation and pressure. So instead, Musk says, why 0:15:44.360 --> 0:15:46.720 don't we just have something that will lower the air 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:50.040 pressure quite a bit, uh, And that will allow for 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.200 reduced air resistance because you don't have as much air 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:55.760 to push against, and then all that means the capsule 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.320 can move faster within that tube. So that's that's one 0:15:59.400 --> 0:16:02.840 element to another element is, well, how do you get 0:16:02.840 --> 0:16:06.320 the tube to float above the base of the track, 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:10.120 the base of the tunnel, And it's not through magnetic levitation? Yeah, yeah, 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.560 it's uh, it's weirdly enough. It goes back to our 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:18.520 air hockey comparison, right exactly, the air cushioning, right. Yeah, 0:16:18.520 --> 0:16:21.440 So you've got You've got these little air skis on 0:16:21.520 --> 0:16:25.800 the base of the metal capsule. So imagine these flat surfaces, 0:16:25.880 --> 0:16:28.680 lots of surface area on the base of this capsule, 0:16:29.080 --> 0:16:32.520 and then the track could blow air up and the 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.800 capsule is on a cushion of air. So that there's 0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:38.280 another reason why you can't have a total vacuum, because 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:41.960 if you're using air to keep the capsule up, Uh, 0:16:42.480 --> 0:16:44.960 you obviously can't have a total vacuum. Right. Yeah in 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.200 this in this case, in a very crew comparison, it 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:50.600 would be trying to drive a car without wheels. Yeah yeah, 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.960 and um for anyone who has tried that, I'm sorry. 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.560 I wish we had talked earlier. I know a lot 0:16:56.640 --> 0:16:59.320 of people who have cars without wheels on their front yard. 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:01.240 But that's because we live in the South, right, that 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.400 is because we live in the South. But so if 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:06.040 we just take if we just take these two ideas, right, 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:11.400 partial vacuum, eliminating the air resistance, having these air skis. Um. 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:13.440 One of the first things that I thought about when 0:17:13.440 --> 0:17:16.760 I was reading about the hyper loop system was it 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:20.000 always reminded me in principle of the pneumatic bank tubes. 0:17:20.560 --> 0:17:23.240 Remember those yes, exactly what you're talking about. And there's 0:17:23.320 --> 0:17:27.240 even a there's even this such a tangent. But there's 0:17:27.280 --> 0:17:30.840 even a system that someone tried to build, I believe 0:17:30.880 --> 0:17:32.800 in New York that was supposed to be a pneumatic 0:17:32.800 --> 0:17:37.080 train system spoil alert didn't work out, and so how 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:40.560 how would we like We're gonna keep explaining the science, 0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:44.520 but but it's it's important that we underline, we emphasize 0:17:44.880 --> 0:17:50.679 that this is at best wildly ambitious. So we've got um, 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:54.360 we've got back to uh to the idea with the science. 0:17:54.400 --> 0:17:56.919 Now at this point, we're we're talking about principles, we're 0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.280 talking about blue sky stuff. I love that you up 0:18:00.280 --> 0:18:03.040 the p example. This is a great example P A 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.959 P E A for our family show. I'm sorry, so 0:18:07.240 --> 0:18:13.439 this uh, this p this sealed capsule um could carry 0:18:13.760 --> 0:18:17.200 twenty eight passengers, right, so it's larger than your average. 0:18:17.480 --> 0:18:21.160 He even suggested that if you wanted to expand the hyperloop, 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:24.960 you could have larger capsules that could carry not just passengers, 0:18:24.960 --> 0:18:27.440 but cars as well. One of the reasons for that 0:18:27.600 --> 0:18:30.960 is that the proposed stations that would be in Los 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:33.760 Angeles and San Francisco would actually be in outlying areas, 0:18:34.119 --> 0:18:36.560 meaning that once you've got there, you would not be 0:18:36.680 --> 0:18:38.280 right there in the city center. You would have to 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.679 find some other means of transportation to getting you to 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.040 your final location, assuming that it's not a hotel that's 0:18:43.119 --> 0:18:46.400 adjacent to the to the station, right, which would be 0:18:46.440 --> 0:18:51.040 probably wildly expensive. Yeah, well, you know, yes, And I 0:18:51.080 --> 0:18:54.320 remember I read one report that said, because you would 0:18:54.320 --> 0:18:56.600 have to transfer to a different form of transportation, that 0:18:56.600 --> 0:18:59.560 would significantly increase the travel time. And I'm thinking, have 0:18:59.680 --> 0:19:03.040 you ever driven between San Francisco and Los Angeles, because 0:19:03.320 --> 0:19:04.800 I don't know, you know, if you know what the 0:19:04.800 --> 0:19:08.920 word significant means, because I have gone between San Francisco 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:12.520 and Los Angeles by car and it is not leisurely 0:19:12.600 --> 0:19:14.720 is a good word for it? How long did it take? 0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:18.040 We actually decided to make it a road trip, so 0:19:18.119 --> 0:19:21.280 we stopped overnight between the two and we we took 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:23.480 a more scenic route anyway, we didn't take a direct 0:19:23.560 --> 0:19:25.359 route between San Francisco and l A. We went down 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:28.320 the coastal Highway, so we were already going out of 0:19:28.359 --> 0:19:31.080 our way. But we stopped just south of Big Sir, 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:33.240 which is gorgeous. By the way, if you've ever been 0:19:33.280 --> 0:19:35.280 to California and you've been there, you know what I'm 0:19:35.280 --> 0:19:37.440 talking about, and if you haven't, you should check it out. 0:19:37.480 --> 0:19:41.080 It's absolutely beautiful landscape. But it's a long drive, and 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:44.440 we decided we would make that an experience as opposed 0:19:44.520 --> 0:19:47.560 to a frustration. Right, we planned for it to be 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:49.160 a long drive and that we would take a break 0:19:49.160 --> 0:19:51.480 halfway down. Now, if you were to go just down 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.240 the highway, it'd be a few hours, right, It wouldn't 0:19:54.320 --> 0:19:57.040 be It wouldn't be like a you know, a twelve 0:19:57.040 --> 0:19:59.720 hour drive or anything, depending upon how bad the traffic is, 0:19:59.720 --> 0:20:03.000 because it can get rough. But it's it's it's definitely 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:07.320 not a quick trip and uh, at least not yet, 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.440 but the hyper loop could possibly make it a quick trip. Now. 0:20:10.600 --> 0:20:14.119 We haven't talked even about the propulsion system. Yeah, we 0:20:14.119 --> 0:20:17.000 talked about that. It's floating above the track, well not 0:20:17.040 --> 0:20:19.720 even a track, it's floating above the ground of this tunnel, 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:23.439 which again is elevated. It's on these pylons, and we 0:20:23.520 --> 0:20:26.520 talked about how uh you know, it's uh, we got 0:20:26.560 --> 0:20:28.440 the lower air pressure inside the tunnel, but how does 0:20:28.440 --> 0:20:32.119 it actually move. It uses a series of linear electric 0:20:32.240 --> 0:20:36.239 motors which actually create a magnetic field, and so in 0:20:36.280 --> 0:20:39.280 this case, it's like the maglev trains that also use 0:20:39.359 --> 0:20:41.840 magnetic fields for two purposes. They use it one to 0:20:42.040 --> 0:20:44.399 levitate the train and the second one is to propel 0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:48.440 the train down the track. So while you're not using 0:20:48.560 --> 0:20:52.080 magnetism to levitate the capsule inside the hyper loop, you 0:20:52.119 --> 0:20:54.879 are using it to push it forward. And here's the 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:57.360 neat thing. It's because you've got that low air pressure 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:00.480 system within this tunnel and you don't have to worry 0:21:00.520 --> 0:21:04.080 so much about friction. You've really reduced friction. You only 0:21:04.119 --> 0:21:07.840 have to accelerate the capsule for a relatively short amount 0:21:07.880 --> 0:21:09.600 of time and then it can glide the rest of 0:21:09.600 --> 0:21:12.159 the way because you don't have to continuously pour an 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:15.520 energy to maintain that speed. I mean you will slow 0:21:15.560 --> 0:21:19.840 down on your own because, uh, you still have intropy 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:22.840 to deal with. It's not a purely frictionless system. It's 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:25.840 not a pure vacuum. So clearly eventually it's going to stop. 0:21:26.200 --> 0:21:29.960 But the term there is eventually. So that's the neat 0:21:30.000 --> 0:21:31.840 thing is that you accelerate to a top speed and 0:21:31.840 --> 0:21:34.639 then you stop, and then you just allow the capsule 0:21:34.680 --> 0:21:37.639 to travel the rest of the way. So now that 0:21:37.640 --> 0:21:40.399 we know how it goes, how fast can this thing go? 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.920 The route is three hundred fifty four or miles or 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:49.399 about seventy kilometers h Yeah, and and since we know, uh, 0:21:49.720 --> 0:21:52.560 since now we can get into our spoiler territory and 0:21:52.600 --> 0:21:56.840 say that the proposed transportation time is thirty five minutes. 0:21:56.920 --> 0:22:00.880 That's incredible. That's so such a short amount of time 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.280 to go between l A and San Francisco. That's that's crazy. 0:22:04.359 --> 0:22:09.560 We are automatically gonna be old codgers who people will 0:22:10.000 --> 0:22:13.160 dismiss when we say, you know, day, it took here. 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:15.720 It took care at least five hours to get it. 0:22:16.400 --> 0:22:18.560 It takes more than thirty five minutes to drive across 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.120 Los Angeles. I mean that's l A is enormous. So yeah, 0:22:22.160 --> 0:22:25.520 and this, um, so this this speed, let's see, how 0:22:25.520 --> 0:22:29.359 would you I've I've heard some differing numbers, so um, 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:32.960 I usually say, I usually say it's right around like 0:22:33.320 --> 0:22:36.399 just below six hundred miles per hour as the average speed. 0:22:36.480 --> 0:22:39.840 Somewhere somewhere between five and six hundred miles per hour 0:22:40.000 --> 0:22:42.800 would be the average speed. So that's roughly around nine 0:22:43.480 --> 0:22:47.160 kilometers per hour, give or take, you know, kilometers per 0:22:47.160 --> 0:22:51.359 hour because because again, like you said, the discussions vary 0:22:51.440 --> 0:22:54.239 on this because it all depends upon uh, you know, 0:22:54.400 --> 0:22:57.120 how you're defining everything. And thirty five minutes, I think 0:22:57.359 --> 0:22:59.520 when they say thirty five minutes, to me, that just 0:22:59.560 --> 0:23:02.639 sounds like a number like it, Like, I don't know 0:23:02.680 --> 0:23:06.119 that they have specifically worked it out where scientifically speaking, 0:23:06.160 --> 0:23:08.199 it's thirty five minutes travel time and almost to me 0:23:08.280 --> 0:23:11.240 sounds like, well, here's here's a short enough amount of 0:23:11.240 --> 0:23:16.760 time for you to consider this incredible accomplishment. But that 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:18.600 would mean that you would have a top speed, Like 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:20.280 I said, you'd hit that top speed and then allow 0:23:20.280 --> 0:23:22.760 it to slow down. That would be probably around between 0:23:22.800 --> 0:23:25.320 seven and fifty and seven and seventy five miles per 0:23:25.320 --> 0:23:28.800 hour or around twelve hundred kilometers per hour for your 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:32.720 top speed. That's faster than what how most uh commercial 0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:36.640 jets travel, right, And that also gives us That also 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:38.959 gives us a good place to note that if you 0:23:39.080 --> 0:23:41.720 are ever writing in this and you have some sort 0:23:41.720 --> 0:23:44.800 of phobia about this kind of stuff, um, you know, 0:23:45.640 --> 0:23:49.080 do your best, you might you might need to um 0:23:49.280 --> 0:23:53.159 have someone sing you a sweet song thirty five minutes 0:23:53.320 --> 0:23:55.760 because if you think about you were in an enclosed capsule. 0:23:55.800 --> 0:23:59.280 I'm guessing that there wouldn't be any real windows, because 0:23:59.320 --> 0:24:01.240 what would be the point. There's are really a way 0:24:01.280 --> 0:24:04.000 to do it that would be worth the effort. Yeah, 0:24:04.000 --> 0:24:06.080 I mean, I guess you could. You could put something 0:24:06.160 --> 0:24:08.720 along the tubes so that when you travel it's almost 0:24:08.720 --> 0:24:12.439 like animation. I've actually seen train tunnels that have this 0:24:12.480 --> 0:24:14.960 kind of stuff where because as long as the train 0:24:15.040 --> 0:24:18.440 is moving at the average speed, you get this illusion 0:24:18.520 --> 0:24:21.080 of animation because of the way that things are lit 0:24:21.119 --> 0:24:23.359 and the way you're moving through this tunnel. So I 0:24:23.400 --> 0:24:25.480 guess you could do that. But otherwise you are in 0:24:25.520 --> 0:24:28.480 an enclosed steel tunnel. It's not like you've got a 0:24:28.480 --> 0:24:31.639 lot to look at. So if you are claustrophobic, I 0:24:31.640 --> 0:24:34.119 would imagine that would be scary. Plus you're going to 0:24:34.280 --> 0:24:38.160 experience some some you know, some acceleration. I I I'm 0:24:38.200 --> 0:24:40.920 sure that the acceleration would be gradual, so it wouldn't 0:24:40.960 --> 0:24:44.440 be so incredible that you'd be all, you know, crushed 0:24:44.480 --> 0:24:48.560 back in your seats experiencing like ten g's of force. 0:24:48.600 --> 0:24:51.880 That would be way too much, um, but there, Yeah, 0:24:51.880 --> 0:24:55.920 but there will definitely be noticeable effects. It's pretty much 0:24:56.000 --> 0:24:59.320 unavoidable at that at that level of speed. Yeah, and 0:24:59.320 --> 0:25:02.000 then you have to also worry about deceleration when you 0:25:02.000 --> 0:25:04.199 get to the end of your trip. So again they 0:25:04.200 --> 0:25:07.439 would be using magnets to help slow down the capsule's 0:25:08.400 --> 0:25:11.280 travel so that you would come to a smooth stop. 0:25:11.680 --> 0:25:14.120 But that would be something that you have to take 0:25:14.720 --> 0:25:17.640 special care of. And obviously, like you, you definitely need 0:25:17.680 --> 0:25:22.280 to put this into very narrow ranges of acceptance because otherwise, 0:25:22.359 --> 0:25:26.199 how can you guarantee that the average person would would 0:25:26.240 --> 0:25:30.080 experience no ill effects inside this capsule? Keeping in mind 0:25:30.080 --> 0:25:33.040 that the average person that you know, there's what we 0:25:33.080 --> 0:25:36.800 say average, we're talking about a huge variety of variables, 0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:41.600 everything from uh, you know, health issues, part conditioning, pregnancy 0:25:41.960 --> 0:25:45.080 right right exactly, or you know, just someone who is older, 0:25:45.160 --> 0:25:48.600 would they be safe? Would they are they likely to 0:25:48.640 --> 0:25:53.200 suffer ill effects from this acceleration and deceleration. Someone who 0:25:53.240 --> 0:25:56.439 really had to use the bathroom but they forgot to 0:25:56.480 --> 0:25:58.040 do it before they got in the train. Yeah, I 0:25:58.080 --> 0:26:00.880 don't know if there would be a bathroom in here. 0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:03.199 You would think there would need to be, just because 0:26:03.320 --> 0:26:06.000 you know, if you've got a group of people together, Yeah, 0:26:06.040 --> 0:26:08.240 and asking someone to hold it for thirty five minutes 0:26:08.320 --> 0:26:10.320 might be a bit much, depending upon that person, but 0:26:10.400 --> 0:26:12.440 they they're probably Okay, I'm gonna go out of lim 0:26:12.480 --> 0:26:14.960 and say there probably isn't at least yet. We do 0:26:15.080 --> 0:26:19.120 know that there are emergency exits built along the tubes, 0:26:19.600 --> 0:26:22.199 um or at least there would be. We haven't. We 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:25.000 haven't built anything yet. Yeah, let's underline that again. And 0:26:25.040 --> 0:26:27.280 you did a great job emphasizing that in the beginning, 0:26:27.320 --> 0:26:29.800 but we can't say it enough. This has not been 0:26:29.840 --> 0:26:35.240 built yet and of this podcasting this podcast and um 0:26:35.280 --> 0:26:39.080 there also there's an additional uh, there's a supplemental power 0:26:39.119 --> 0:26:41.720 source here, the solar panels. Yeah. In fact, that's a 0:26:41.840 --> 0:26:44.960 great point there. I totally forgot to mention that too. 0:26:45.000 --> 0:26:48.480 Where does the hyperloop get its power because you're talking 0:26:48.520 --> 0:26:52.600 about electric motors providing that force to propel them. Uh, 0:26:52.720 --> 0:26:55.680 presumably you'd be using some form of electric motors to 0:26:55.680 --> 0:26:59.320 to create the air cushion. So where are you getting 0:26:59.720 --> 0:27:02.919 that power? And Musk had said, well, let's put solar 0:27:02.920 --> 0:27:07.240 panels along the top of this this raised tunnel, and 0:27:07.359 --> 0:27:10.520 you just harvest solar energy and you store that and 0:27:10.640 --> 0:27:13.679 use that as the power source, saying that if you 0:27:13.720 --> 0:27:16.240 did this properly, you would not have to tap into 0:27:16.280 --> 0:27:18.520 the power grid at all. It would be completely self 0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:22.359 contained in that respect, which you know obviously that would 0:27:22.359 --> 0:27:26.560 be a huge benefit. You could say, well, while the 0:27:26.640 --> 0:27:30.000 operating costs have only like we can't even estimate what 0:27:30.080 --> 0:27:32.399 the operating costs of this system would be, but if 0:27:32.440 --> 0:27:34.479 you can remove power from that, then you can at 0:27:34.560 --> 0:27:39.359 least compare that part to any other alternative plan. That's true. 0:27:39.480 --> 0:27:42.520 And also, you know, the other the other power source 0:27:42.640 --> 0:27:46.200 they're inside the pods would be the batteries that Tesla 0:27:46.359 --> 0:27:50.360 that again come from uh, Tesla bottlelesque electric cars. Well 0:27:50.359 --> 0:27:54.199 they don't, they're related to it, yeah, and Tesla, the 0:27:54.200 --> 0:27:56.800 Tesla motors. The one of the things that they've they've 0:27:56.800 --> 0:28:00.199 really innovated in is battery technology and charging technology. They 0:28:00.240 --> 0:28:03.679 have something called a supercharger which allows them to charge 0:28:03.720 --> 0:28:08.440 batteries to essentially full capacity at relatively short intervals. So 0:28:08.520 --> 0:28:13.359 that would allow them to continuously operate and recharge these 0:28:13.400 --> 0:28:16.800 these capsules so that you didn't have to worry about 0:28:16.840 --> 0:28:20.640 taking them offline for a great deal of time. Now, clearly, uh, 0:28:20.680 --> 0:28:23.479 you know, one of the criticisms I've heard is that 0:28:23.960 --> 0:28:27.359 this system might work in California, where you get a 0:28:27.359 --> 0:28:30.160 lot of sunshine. But if you were to try and 0:28:30.280 --> 0:28:32.920 expand this so that you could, you know, maybe people 0:28:32.920 --> 0:28:37.040 who I don't know don't live in California. As crazy 0:28:37.080 --> 0:28:40.440 as that sounds to the two people who in this 0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:43.240 room three, really because we got no here too, none 0:28:43.280 --> 0:28:45.520 of us live in California. We would not be able 0:28:45.520 --> 0:28:47.120 to take advantage of this unless we were to head 0:28:47.120 --> 0:28:49.760 out and see our buddies at Revision three and then say, hey, 0:28:49.840 --> 0:28:52.440 let's go to Disneyland. Uh. And you know it's just 0:28:52.520 --> 0:28:55.440 a thirty five minute tripped on hyperloop. Um, but yeah, 0:28:55.520 --> 0:28:59.720 it's It wouldn't necessarily work everywhere using solar energy in 0:28:59.720 --> 0:29:02.760 the k Yeah, yeah, the UK might not get enough 0:29:02.880 --> 0:29:05.400 son to keep that going so they Now, you could 0:29:05.480 --> 0:29:08.840 argue that sure, you could offset whatever the power needs 0:29:08.840 --> 0:29:10.880 were with solar panels, and then the rest you would 0:29:10.920 --> 0:29:13.720 supply with whatever the power grid would supply. So it's 0:29:13.760 --> 0:29:16.000 not like it's an all or nothing game. It's not 0:29:16.000 --> 0:29:17.840 a zero sum game. I don't mean to say that, 0:29:17.920 --> 0:29:19.880 but it's one of those things you've got to take 0:29:19.880 --> 0:29:24.640 into consideration. So all right, so this sounds pretty incredible. Ben, this, this, 0:29:24.640 --> 0:29:29.000 this whole system sounds amazing to me. Um. You know what, 0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:31.840 everything that's amazing comes to the price tag. And I'm 0:29:31.880 --> 0:29:36.160 curious how much Musk thinks this system would cost. Oh man, 0:29:36.560 --> 0:29:39.840 you know, I think the bargain number that I've heard 0:29:39.960 --> 0:29:45.200 thrown around is as low as six billion. That's what 0:29:45.280 --> 0:29:49.200 I saw. That's the the alpha design has been called 0:29:49.320 --> 0:29:52.080 six billion dollars because this is again, no one has 0:29:52.160 --> 0:29:55.240 seriously looked into building this, at least to the point 0:29:55.280 --> 0:30:00.360 where talks go beyond just a kind of hypothetical situation. Right. Yeah, 0:30:00.400 --> 0:30:02.560 that's a good point. Right now. A lot of the 0:30:02.760 --> 0:30:06.320 numbers that you and I are pulling come directly from 0:30:06.600 --> 0:30:11.160 a fifty seven page uh. I think it's fair to 0:30:11.200 --> 0:30:15.000 call the manifesto written by Musk about the hyper loop 0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:19.640 and this, uh, this number comes from his estimate. This 0:30:19.800 --> 0:30:23.360 Alpha system. Think of it like, uh, think of it 0:30:23.440 --> 0:30:26.200 like when the first PlayStation came out, you know, it 0:30:26.280 --> 0:30:29.200 was it was it was chunky, it was first gin. 0:30:29.320 --> 0:30:32.240 It didn't have all the amenities, all the bells and whistles. 0:30:32.400 --> 0:30:35.520 For instance. The Alpha system doesn't take into account the 0:30:35.560 --> 0:30:38.160 idea of um which you mentioned earlier. The idea of 0:30:38.160 --> 0:30:41.680 putting passenger vehicles on pods. Right. So, in fact, I 0:30:41.720 --> 0:30:43.480 think they said that if you wanted to make it 0:30:43.560 --> 0:30:47.000 for passenger vehicles UH to be stored on those kind 0:30:47.000 --> 0:30:48.680 of pods as well, it would be more like seven 0:30:48.720 --> 0:30:52.480 point five billion, and at one point five billion increase 0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:58.320 for something that significant seems really really optimistic to me. Yeah, 0:30:58.320 --> 0:31:02.560 optimistics the diplomat because you imagine that any capsule that 0:31:02.600 --> 0:31:06.360 could hold at least a vehicle and presumably more than one, 0:31:06.440 --> 0:31:09.560 if you're talking about this being a mass transportation system, 0:31:10.120 --> 0:31:13.640 then you know you're going to have to have larger capsules, 0:31:13.640 --> 0:31:16.160 which means in turn you have to have larger tunnels 0:31:16.360 --> 0:31:21.520 to to accommodate those larger capsules, stronger pylons or the weight. Yeah, 0:31:21.600 --> 0:31:25.160 it's I mean, everything ends up having to be larger 0:31:25.200 --> 0:31:28.440 and more more resilient, and it just then means that 0:31:28.440 --> 0:31:31.000 it's going to cost more. So one point five billion 0:31:31.040 --> 0:31:34.120 more is kind of I mean, I'm curious to see 0:31:34.120 --> 0:31:38.440 how they arrived at their numbers. Um, I've read other estimations. 0:31:38.560 --> 0:31:42.040 One person had suggested that it would be more like 0:31:42.120 --> 0:31:45.200 one hundred billion dollars to make such a system because 0:31:45.240 --> 0:31:49.520 you have to factor in everything from the design prototypes, 0:31:49.760 --> 0:31:54.200 developing it, testing it, making sure that it's safer people 0:31:54.240 --> 0:31:57.680 to use, and then finally building out the real system, 0:31:57.720 --> 0:32:02.080 and then uh, and then operating it, maintaining it. You 0:32:02.120 --> 0:32:04.000 know that there are a lot of costs in there, 0:32:04.080 --> 0:32:07.000 so uh, it's interesting too. Did you see how much 0:32:07.040 --> 0:32:10.680 they had proposed a ticket would be on the hyperloop? Yeah, 0:32:10.760 --> 0:32:14.920 twenty dollars. One way, it's more it would be more 0:32:14.960 --> 0:32:18.040 expensive for you to take a cab to the station 0:32:18.520 --> 0:32:20.680 than it would to take a trip from San Francisco 0:32:20.760 --> 0:32:24.560 to Los Angeles. Yeah, and twenty dollars. That to me, 0:32:24.720 --> 0:32:26.840 out of all the numbers I've got thrown around, twenty 0:32:26.840 --> 0:32:30.160 dollars is the one that is most likely to make 0:32:30.240 --> 0:32:34.280 me smirk, because that's that's blue sky. Know. If it works, 0:32:34.440 --> 0:32:38.560 is it fantastic? Sure? If it's fifty dollars for a ticket, 0:32:38.840 --> 0:32:42.840 is it worth it still? Yes? Yes, there's so much 0:32:42.920 --> 0:32:46.680 worth it. Yeah. That's the thing is that I wonder there. 0:32:46.760 --> 0:32:49.360 I've seen some economists say that I can't understand how 0:32:49.360 --> 0:32:51.600 they would come up with this idea that if you 0:32:51.720 --> 0:32:54.880 had a twenty dollar ticket, it would recapture the cost 0:32:54.920 --> 0:32:57.440 of building this thing within the time frame that Musk 0:32:57.600 --> 0:33:01.760 was suggesting. Uh, you know, I just I also think now, granted, 0:33:02.080 --> 0:33:06.160 Musk is a a pretty smart businessman. He's he's he's 0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:09.440 achieved way more on the business side of things than 0:33:09.520 --> 0:33:12.440 I have or that I ever expect to achieve. Hey, 0:33:12.440 --> 0:33:14.520 come on, you know, you never know what tomorrow brings. 0:33:14.720 --> 0:33:17.080 You know, maybe I maybe I end up coming up 0:33:17.120 --> 0:33:19.320 with Hey, I came up with an idea that could 0:33:19.320 --> 0:33:21.960 win me a Nobel Prize when I was talking about 0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:25.160 possibly the existence of white holes and why we haven't 0:33:25.200 --> 0:33:27.640 identified any. I'm still waiting on that check. I got 0:33:27.720 --> 0:33:31.040 a certificate though, I'll show it to you. Listeners sent 0:33:31.120 --> 0:33:34.440 me a certificate. Um. But yeah, it's just to me 0:33:34.680 --> 0:33:38.600 that just that twenty dollars per ticket, it really makes 0:33:38.600 --> 0:33:42.880 me wonder how many people per day this system would 0:33:42.920 --> 0:33:46.920 allow to travel so that you would recapture those costs 0:33:46.920 --> 0:33:50.240 within a reasonable amount of time. Well, I've got musk 0:33:50.360 --> 0:33:52.440 take on it, and it is an excellent question because 0:33:52.480 --> 0:33:55.080 that price has to we have to assume that there 0:33:55.120 --> 0:33:59.600 are there there's at least concre estimation behind that. Um, 0:33:59.760 --> 0:34:03.040 here is what he's thinking. He said the capacity of 0:34:03.160 --> 0:34:07.120 would be on average eight forty passengers per hour. Wow, 0:34:07.600 --> 0:34:11.000 So he argues that's more than sufficient enough to transport 0:34:11.280 --> 0:34:14.200 all of the six million passengers traveling between l A 0:34:14.239 --> 0:34:18.160 and San Francisco per year. Uh, and that accounts for 0:34:18.360 --> 0:34:21.600 sevent of those travelers to use hyper loop during rush hour. 0:34:22.040 --> 0:34:25.080 So there's a lot of there's a lot of wind 0:34:25.080 --> 0:34:29.000 at your back scenario stuff going on, and forty per hour, 0:34:29.239 --> 0:34:33.560 that's you know, that's pretty amazing if and how many 0:34:33.600 --> 0:34:35.880 people did they say the capsule could hold, like twenty something, 0:34:37.280 --> 0:34:39.400 so that there are a lot of capsules traveling on 0:34:39.480 --> 0:34:42.400 that system in order to get and obviously this is 0:34:42.440 --> 0:34:45.160 a two way loop. I mean there's a loop, so 0:34:45.880 --> 0:34:48.400 you would divide that by two to figure out how 0:34:48.400 --> 0:34:51.600 many are traveling north versus south essentially and leaving every 0:34:51.600 --> 0:34:55.479 two minutes. That's the interval of the trains. Again, that's 0:34:55.520 --> 0:34:59.919 the proposed interval of the trains. And um you know, yeah, 0:35:00.000 --> 0:35:02.160 it might sound weird to some of the listeners that 0:35:02.400 --> 0:35:05.960 you and I are taking a few moments every few 0:35:06.000 --> 0:35:09.279 minutes to say, well, that would be this is conditional. 0:35:09.560 --> 0:35:13.080 But it's very, very very important to note this because 0:35:13.200 --> 0:35:17.360 any time that we're talking about um an infrastructure process 0:35:17.560 --> 0:35:21.239 uh an infrastructure of this size, or in any any 0:35:21.320 --> 0:35:25.640 kind of new transportation. We have to understand that it's 0:35:26.000 --> 0:35:29.919 very safe to assume that the cost will balloon, will 0:35:29.960 --> 0:35:32.759 skyros sure, yeah, because you're always going to run into 0:35:32.800 --> 0:35:36.040 other costs, just like Musk ran into other costs with SpaceX, 0:35:36.360 --> 0:35:38.760 things that he did not anticipate because he was told 0:35:38.800 --> 0:35:40.960 one thing and it turned out to be another thing. 0:35:41.280 --> 0:35:44.240 I would imagine the same situation would happen here where 0:35:44.560 --> 0:35:46.920 things that you know, you're basing it off of a 0:35:47.000 --> 0:35:50.080 certain set of expectations, but you haven't factored into all 0:35:50.120 --> 0:35:54.600 the other variables that could affect any of those numbers, 0:35:55.160 --> 0:35:57.879 including things like well, in order for me to get 0:35:57.880 --> 0:36:02.360 the political uh angle covered, I need to make sure 0:36:02.680 --> 0:36:05.839 that all these other things are covered first, or I'm 0:36:05.840 --> 0:36:07.719 not going to get the support I need to get 0:36:07.719 --> 0:36:09.719 this done, which kind of you know, this is kind 0:36:09.719 --> 0:36:11.800 of brings us into those pros and cons. Obviously, the 0:36:12.040 --> 0:36:15.440 pro here is that you would have a high speed 0:36:15.440 --> 0:36:19.320 transportation system that could get you between two distant cities 0:36:19.600 --> 0:36:22.680 in thirty five minutes, which is phenomenal for a low 0:36:22.719 --> 0:36:26.080 price twenty bucks a ticket. That's yeah, I can imagine 0:36:26.120 --> 0:36:28.239 so many people in l A or San Francisco taking 0:36:28.280 --> 0:36:31.440 weekend trips. You know, because you've got twenty bucks a person, 0:36:31.520 --> 0:36:33.840 it's not nothing. You can go visit the other city 0:36:33.880 --> 0:36:36.479 and your you can spend most of your time doing 0:36:36.480 --> 0:36:38.080 whatever it is you want to do instead of in 0:36:38.120 --> 0:36:41.920 the car. Great idea. I like the idea that's getting 0:36:41.920 --> 0:36:45.920 most it's electricity from solar power, so it's not causing 0:36:45.960 --> 0:36:49.759 too much of a carbon footprint. Depending upon how you know, 0:36:49.760 --> 0:36:51.680 you would have to factor in how much carbon footprint 0:36:51.719 --> 0:36:55.600 was generated just through the construction, but the operation you 0:36:55.600 --> 0:36:57.920 would imagine would be you know, pretty low since you're 0:36:58.000 --> 0:37:00.920 using solar power as your source of energy. I love that. 0:37:01.719 --> 0:37:04.520 I love innovation obviously. I love the idea that if 0:37:04.560 --> 0:37:08.640 this were actually to be as cost efficient as Musk claims, 0:37:08.880 --> 0:37:12.960 it would be remarkably less expensive than the proposed train 0:37:13.200 --> 0:37:15.640 high speed train system that they want to build between 0:37:15.760 --> 0:37:18.479 l A and San Francisco. Ah. Yes, I'm so glad 0:37:18.520 --> 0:37:20.839 you mentioned that, because that's one of our that's one 0:37:20.840 --> 0:37:23.040 of our other factors. We should take just a just 0:37:23.120 --> 0:37:27.960 a sidebar here and talk about that. Uh. Hyper loop is. 0:37:28.160 --> 0:37:30.799 While hyper loop might be the Internet favorite right now. 0:37:30.920 --> 0:37:33.640 It is not is not the only contender in the 0:37:33.680 --> 0:37:37.920 game for high speed transit in this realm uh. There's 0:37:38.040 --> 0:37:44.520 also California's UH state sanctioned transit system, which um which, 0:37:44.680 --> 0:37:46.680 let's see, what's the nicest way to say it, It 0:37:46.840 --> 0:37:50.960 throws that six billion dollar price tag into a very 0:37:51.120 --> 0:37:54.960 favorable contrast, right. Yeah. Musk was making this point when 0:37:54.960 --> 0:37:57.399 he was talking about hyperloop for the first couple of times. 0:37:57.400 --> 0:38:00.719 He said he was looking at the figure for this 0:38:00.840 --> 0:38:04.200 proposed bullet train between l A and San Francisco, and 0:38:04.200 --> 0:38:07.640 he said, there are two factors here, two superlatives that 0:38:07.719 --> 0:38:11.600 you never want. One, it's the most expensive bullet train 0:38:11.719 --> 0:38:14.759 per mile than any other one in the world. And 0:38:14.800 --> 0:38:17.839 to it's the slowest one. So it's very slow and 0:38:18.000 --> 0:38:21.239 very expensive. He's compared to other bullet train systems. Right, 0:38:21.320 --> 0:38:23.960 And we know that we know that in the case 0:38:24.120 --> 0:38:28.080 of bullet train technology, this is not in the same 0:38:28.120 --> 0:38:31.640 situation as a hyper loop. Bullet train technology has been tested, 0:38:31.760 --> 0:38:34.640 has been proven to work successfully in Japan, it works 0:38:34.680 --> 0:38:37.680 successfully in China, there's some in Europe as well as 0:38:37.719 --> 0:38:40.440 some in Europe as well. And it's not as though, 0:38:41.000 --> 0:38:45.239 it's not as though this is slow and inordinately expensive 0:38:45.360 --> 0:38:49.080 because of a lot of research. It might just be, 0:38:49.160 --> 0:38:56.480 as Must proposes, a frustrating example of poor implementation, which 0:38:56.840 --> 0:38:59.240 he was so frustrated with it that it led to 0:38:59.280 --> 0:39:02.040 this hyper loop idea. Yeah, I said that that was 0:39:02.160 --> 0:39:05.319 essentially the impetus that got into thinking there had to 0:39:05.360 --> 0:39:10.160 be a better way to get people quickly between uh 0:39:10.200 --> 0:39:14.239 these two cities and at a lower price. Yeah. And 0:39:14.560 --> 0:39:17.720 I'll put on some pros to dovetail with the pros 0:39:17.800 --> 0:39:21.680 that you you earlier mentioned withdraw all great good points. Um. 0:39:21.920 --> 0:39:24.759 One of the other pros that I see, and this 0:39:24.840 --> 0:39:28.359 is all blue sky. If this works, how amazing would 0:39:28.360 --> 0:39:33.200 it be to be able to build a network of 0:39:33.360 --> 0:39:37.239 hyper loops kind of picture just almost like a chain 0:39:37.320 --> 0:39:44.240 of loops around a around a coastline or traversing through 0:39:44.640 --> 0:39:48.160 the United States. I mean, that's wildly ambitious. That's that's 0:39:48.200 --> 0:39:52.080 something that's not to bring mortality into it, Jonathan, but 0:39:52.080 --> 0:39:54.520 that's something that might be beyond our lifetimes even if 0:39:54.560 --> 0:39:57.400 it did work. Right we have this, Uh, well, I 0:39:57.560 --> 0:40:00.200 could also imagine that if you're talking about a more 0:40:00.239 --> 0:40:03.680 of a nationwide rollout of this, you would face other, 0:40:04.480 --> 0:40:07.680 uh interesting opponents to it. I could imagine the airline 0:40:07.719 --> 0:40:10.880 industry being very much interested in the fact that you 0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:14.480 would suddenly have a high speed method getting between two 0:40:14.480 --> 0:40:18.360 locations at perhaps lower travel times than you would in 0:40:18.400 --> 0:40:22.240 the air and you know that would be Yeah, there'll 0:40:22.239 --> 0:40:25.399 be a lot more politics going into it, absolutely, And 0:40:25.480 --> 0:40:28.160 it's funny because on car stuff, we did an episode 0:40:28.200 --> 0:40:33.360 once on the proposal for a global inter interstate system 0:40:33.520 --> 0:40:39.200 lack of a better word, and by far even countering 0:40:39.239 --> 0:40:42.440 in the infrastructure, even countering in the cost of maintenance, 0:40:42.480 --> 0:40:45.960 which is astronomical. Uh. The by far one of the 0:40:45.960 --> 0:40:50.399 most difficult things would be political opposition, which I think 0:40:50.560 --> 0:40:55.279 leads us naturally into the cons of of this system. Right. 0:40:55.320 --> 0:40:57.680 So one would be we can't really be sure what 0:40:57.760 --> 0:41:00.880 the cost is, so we don't while we know what 0:41:00.960 --> 0:41:07.360 Musk claims he thinks it'll it'll cost that maybe wildly optimistic, um, 0:41:07.400 --> 0:41:10.959 Whereas we can look at what other systems cost based 0:41:11.040 --> 0:41:16.840 upon previous builds. Although I think the uh, the proposed 0:41:17.600 --> 0:41:21.960 bullet train is already something at like sixty eight billion dollars, 0:41:21.960 --> 0:41:24.359 so it's already ten times more expensive than what Musk 0:41:24.480 --> 0:41:27.759 is proposing, and it was sixty billion dollars and it 0:41:27.880 --> 0:41:31.439 jumped up eight billions, right. And it also it would 0:41:31.440 --> 0:41:33.839 take you about two hours forty minutes to get from 0:41:33.920 --> 0:41:36.360 l A to San Francisco on that train as opposed 0:41:36.400 --> 0:41:40.440 to as opposed to the Musk's Train or Musk's hyperloop. 0:41:40.520 --> 0:41:43.120 It's not trained but anyway, UM, so that's a con. 0:41:43.200 --> 0:41:48.080 Another cons it's a totally unproven technology. So with no precedent, 0:41:48.200 --> 0:41:50.239 it's really hard to say whether or not it will work. 0:41:50.440 --> 0:41:52.960 Like you could build some prototypes and test it out, 0:41:53.080 --> 0:41:55.840 but we honestly don't know. And it could be one 0:41:55.880 --> 0:41:57.879 of those things where you tested out and it doesn't work, 0:41:57.920 --> 0:42:02.920 and then you've you've, in some people's minds anyway, wasted time, energy, 0:42:02.920 --> 0:42:05.480 and effort in order to prove that you could not 0:42:05.640 --> 0:42:08.359 do what you had hoped to do. So there's that's one. 0:42:08.400 --> 0:42:10.520 Another one is just you know, trying to figure out 0:42:10.719 --> 0:42:14.239 how do you you know, how do you navigate those 0:42:14.280 --> 0:42:17.320 tricky political waters where you want to erect all these 0:42:17.760 --> 0:42:22.839 pylons alongside highways in California, you know, and and then 0:42:22.880 --> 0:42:25.480 just the construction alone, like how how long would that 0:42:25.560 --> 0:42:30.560 take to build an enormous loop built on pylons? Uh? 0:42:30.600 --> 0:42:34.520 You know, and and so there's there's that con as well. Yeah, 0:42:34.600 --> 0:42:37.000 and that's a that's an interesting one because that is 0:42:37.040 --> 0:42:40.800 a con that is going to become more expensive over 0:42:40.880 --> 0:42:45.319 time given the growth of that area of California. If 0:42:45.800 --> 0:42:49.759 you know, let's say, let's just be wildly optimistic. Man, 0:42:49.880 --> 0:42:53.400 let's say eight years from now, right, they break ground 0:42:53.560 --> 0:42:56.719 and they've got they probably have a lot of agreements 0:42:56.760 --> 0:43:00.720 secured for the land or whatever. But then it's obviously 0:43:00.760 --> 0:43:02.360 it's going to take more than a year to build 0:43:02.400 --> 0:43:07.080 something this gargantelan. So the next year comes around and wait, oh, 0:43:07.239 --> 0:43:11.239 the prices have changed. So instead of twenty million dollars 0:43:11.280 --> 0:43:14.040 for this stretch of land, it's twenty million per acre now, 0:43:14.200 --> 0:43:17.799 just like the rockets. But again, just back to your 0:43:17.800 --> 0:43:20.960 earlier point, there's no, it's very difficult because there are 0:43:21.000 --> 0:43:23.279 so many variables that are in the dark. I've got 0:43:23.280 --> 0:43:27.920 some additional cons that I haven't seen totally address um 0:43:28.040 --> 0:43:29.799 one of at least, and a lot of stuff we've 0:43:29.840 --> 0:43:32.040 been reading. Now. One con that I love that you 0:43:32.120 --> 0:43:35.239 brought up was the idea that of the price of 0:43:35.280 --> 0:43:38.560 course will balloon. And people have rightly said that there 0:43:38.560 --> 0:43:41.120 are some factors that are not taken in consideration here. 0:43:41.480 --> 0:43:46.040 I think that is up there with political political maneuver, 0:43:46.080 --> 0:43:47.400 and I think that is the thing that will be 0:43:47.440 --> 0:43:51.719 most likely to kill it. Another thing is um now 0:43:51.960 --> 0:43:54.560 you know, I'm I'm kind of like a softie in 0:43:54.600 --> 0:43:57.799 my heart on my sleeve or whatever. Uh. This could 0:43:57.840 --> 0:44:02.000 be damaging to some community easier industries that rely upon 0:44:02.320 --> 0:44:08.359 that traffic UH to sustain their part of the problem. Exactly, 0:44:08.560 --> 0:44:11.520 nail on the head. Now, of course this could be 0:44:11.560 --> 0:44:13.640 a little bit dark for some people. But in the 0:44:13.680 --> 0:44:18.680 spirit of objectivity, we must mention this what happens when 0:44:18.680 --> 0:44:21.000 there's an accident. What happens if we already have a 0:44:21.040 --> 0:44:25.120 sunk cost of billions of dollars and then there's a disaster. Yeah, 0:44:25.160 --> 0:44:29.680 because if the capsule has a failure inside, you're talking 0:44:29.680 --> 0:44:33.520 about a low pressure system, it's much higher pressure inside 0:44:33.520 --> 0:44:37.040 the capsule. You just like an experience of being in 0:44:37.080 --> 0:44:40.120 a plane at at a high enough altitude, You've got 0:44:40.200 --> 0:44:43.200 very low pressure outside, higher pressure inside. If there's a breach, 0:44:43.239 --> 0:44:46.799 then everything gets blown out and there's a there is 0:44:46.840 --> 0:44:49.959 a line of well, if you think about an entire 0:44:50.040 --> 0:44:54.200 loop of other capsules two minutes behind. So if there 0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:57.640 is any sort of failure of the propulsion system, then 0:44:57.680 --> 0:45:00.120 you could end up having a collision. If they're is 0:45:00.120 --> 0:45:03.080 a failure of the propulsion system in the sense of deceleration, 0:45:03.160 --> 0:45:06.520 then you could have injuries as the capsule gets to 0:45:06.560 --> 0:45:09.800 its stopping point. There are a lot of safety questions. 0:45:09.800 --> 0:45:11.959 I mean you're talking especially if talking about capsule's leaving 0:45:11.960 --> 0:45:15.239 every two minutes. That thing literally has to run like 0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:18.239 clockwork like. It would have to be so efficient. You 0:45:18.239 --> 0:45:21.040 would have to have a very secure system to slow 0:45:21.120 --> 0:45:23.840 down capsules and maybe have them in a little waiting 0:45:23.880 --> 0:45:28.040 area along one section of the loop before uh, the 0:45:28.080 --> 0:45:32.400 previous capsule is completely unloaded, because again, depending upon who 0:45:32.480 --> 0:45:34.760 is in that capsule, it may take longer than average, 0:45:34.840 --> 0:45:36.719 or you know, it may not take that long at all. 0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:40.239 And that whole thing has to be set up so that, 0:45:40.480 --> 0:45:42.840 you know, you don't have any safety concerns. That's huge. 0:45:42.960 --> 0:45:46.279 The software would have to be as innovative as the 0:45:46.320 --> 0:45:49.680 two idea itself, because you have to be continual security. 0:45:49.800 --> 0:45:52.719 I'm not seeing it's impossible, man, It's just hard. It's 0:45:52.760 --> 0:45:55.280 just hard, that's the thing. And then you know, humans 0:45:55.280 --> 0:45:59.160 have done some stuff that's really freaking hard. Yeah, and 0:45:59.160 --> 0:46:03.239 and Muscus sent people into space. So it's not that 0:46:03.560 --> 0:46:05.520 it's not that we're saying that it's impossible to do, 0:46:05.600 --> 0:46:08.440 but you know it, we definitely have to keep the 0:46:08.520 --> 0:46:11.800 challenges in mind in order for us to meet those challenges, 0:46:12.040 --> 0:46:14.520 Like even from the optimistic side, you've got to acknowledge 0:46:14.520 --> 0:46:17.520 it so that way you're prepared to overcome them. If 0:46:17.520 --> 0:46:20.080 you don't acknowledge them, then you're just it's just a 0:46:20.120 --> 0:46:23.360 ticking time bomb. Really, We've got some other things to 0:46:23.440 --> 0:46:27.080 say about high speed rail, but before we get into that, 0:46:27.239 --> 0:46:30.560 let's take another quick break to thank our sponsor. Okay, 0:46:30.640 --> 0:46:34.680 so we've talked about Musk and his influence. We've talked 0:46:34.719 --> 0:46:37.440 about his idea of the hyperloop and how it would 0:46:38.200 --> 0:46:40.719 work assuming everything went as planned. We talked about the 0:46:40.719 --> 0:46:43.360 pros and cons. Let's talk about some of the other 0:46:43.960 --> 0:46:47.840 systems out there. We've mentioned a little bit about maglev trains, 0:46:48.080 --> 0:46:50.239 and I've done an episode about maglev trains, so I 0:46:50.280 --> 0:46:53.799 don't want to go over it too much, but it is, 0:46:53.840 --> 0:46:56.480 like we said, a similar idea, this idea of having 0:46:56.600 --> 0:47:01.040 a train that doesn't actually sit down down on wheels, 0:47:01.160 --> 0:47:04.440 at least not the entire way on. Whenever it's at 0:47:04.440 --> 0:47:08.200 a station, it would be down on the track, wheels 0:47:08.280 --> 0:47:11.320 to the track, and then once it leaves the station, 0:47:11.920 --> 0:47:16.080 magnets would end up creating a repulsive force against one another. 0:47:16.400 --> 0:47:20.160 And they're different approaches to this. There's the electromagnetic suspension, 0:47:20.200 --> 0:47:25.280 there's electro dynamic suspension. UH. There's the induct tracks system, 0:47:25.400 --> 0:47:28.200 which is the permanent magnet passive suspension. There's all these 0:47:28.239 --> 0:47:31.400 different ways of doing it, but essentially the same idea arises. 0:47:31.440 --> 0:47:35.719 You're just using these magnets to push the train up 0:47:36.760 --> 0:47:40.239 over the rails and then to propel them down the 0:47:40.280 --> 0:47:43.279 tracks length uh, and then also to slow them down 0:47:43.320 --> 0:47:44.879 when they get to where they need to be, where 0:47:44.880 --> 0:47:47.319 they can then come back down onto their wheels and 0:47:47.400 --> 0:47:50.000 come to a rolling stop. And these are these are 0:47:50.040 --> 0:47:53.240 also high speed. But how high speed are we talking 0:47:53.360 --> 0:47:56.360 in comparison to the hyperloop proposal. They're not as fast, 0:47:56.400 --> 0:47:59.800 mostly because most of them are not encapsulated in a tunnel, 0:48:00.120 --> 0:48:04.560 low air pressure. They tend to be out among the outside, 0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:07.480 so they still travel at an incredible speed because again 0:48:07.480 --> 0:48:09.240 you don't have to worry about that friction. See, friction 0:48:09.400 --> 0:48:11.919 is not just something that slows you down, it means 0:48:11.960 --> 0:48:15.040 that you're losing energy. Because you're losing energy in the 0:48:15.080 --> 0:48:18.000 form of heat. Right, you're having to pour more energy 0:48:18.120 --> 0:48:20.880 into your vehicle to make it go the speed. You 0:48:20.920 --> 0:48:23.440 want to compensate for the fact that you're losing energy 0:48:23.440 --> 0:48:26.759 and heat. By making it frictionless, not only can it 0:48:26.840 --> 0:48:29.040 go faster, but you don't have to pour as much 0:48:29.200 --> 0:48:31.640 energy into it because you're not losing so much in 0:48:31.719 --> 0:48:35.360 this this heat problem. There are other issues. For example, 0:48:35.840 --> 0:48:40.360 most maglev trains have to use superconductors because you know, 0:48:40.440 --> 0:48:43.399 actually they all use superconductors in order to generate these 0:48:43.400 --> 0:48:47.800 magnetic fields, and superconductors are not cheap and uh, most 0:48:47.880 --> 0:48:50.760 of them, although this has changed over the last couple 0:48:50.760 --> 0:48:54.920 of decades, most of them require being cooled to very, 0:48:55.080 --> 0:48:57.759 very very low temperatures. We're talking just a couple of 0:48:57.800 --> 0:49:01.319 degrees above absolute zero, so, right, and that's not just 0:49:01.400 --> 0:49:04.880 to be clear, that's not something that happens every every 0:49:04.920 --> 0:49:08.319 so often or on a cycle that has to be continuous. 0:49:09.280 --> 0:49:11.759 So you're talking about using something like liquid nitrogen to 0:49:11.800 --> 0:49:13.640 get it down to a certain temperature and then switching 0:49:13.680 --> 0:49:16.719 to liquid helium because liquid nitrogen is not cold enough 0:49:17.239 --> 0:49:19.640 that being said, there are some super colliders that have 0:49:19.680 --> 0:49:24.319 been developed since then, since they started building maglev trains 0:49:24.360 --> 0:49:27.359 that operate at higher temperatures. And by higher, I still 0:49:27.360 --> 0:49:31.680 mean really really cold, just not just not as cold, right, 0:49:31.719 --> 0:49:34.680 So it's not like the deepest reaches of space cold, 0:49:35.200 --> 0:49:37.600 but it's way chillier than it gets in Minnesota and 0:49:37.600 --> 0:49:41.319 the winter cold. So, um, you know, it's not it's 0:49:41.360 --> 0:49:43.880 not something that makes it. It makes it more expensive 0:49:43.920 --> 0:49:48.080 to operate. And so because of the expense of having 0:49:48.120 --> 0:49:51.760 to operate these not just operate them, but also build them. 0:49:51.800 --> 0:49:55.440 There there aren't as many maglev trains as you might 0:49:55.480 --> 0:49:59.439 imagine based upon their their initial appeal from the fact 0:49:59.440 --> 0:50:01.960 that they and have as much friction. There are maglev trains, 0:50:02.480 --> 0:50:04.120 there's not a lot of them. Some of them are 0:50:04.239 --> 0:50:07.919 just prototypes. Yes, some of them are just prototypes. And 0:50:07.920 --> 0:50:12.120 and for a while, to be honest, maglev trains seemed 0:50:12.160 --> 0:50:14.440 like they could be a candidate for this. There's this 0:50:14.520 --> 0:50:17.680 joke that you and I have made before off air, 0:50:17.719 --> 0:50:19.480 and that Scott and I have made before off air, 0:50:19.760 --> 0:50:23.080 that there's all this fantastic technology. Man, it's just ten 0:50:23.160 --> 0:50:26.080 years away. Yeah, it's always ten years ago. Whatever you 0:50:26.160 --> 0:50:28.480 always are, you're always just ten years away. Yeah. We 0:50:28.520 --> 0:50:31.799 make that same joke on forward thinking as well. Plug um. 0:50:31.920 --> 0:50:34.960 But yeah, so so the magleft trains their top speeds 0:50:35.000 --> 0:50:39.640 maybe somewhere between three and four, right, and so that's 0:50:39.680 --> 0:50:44.440 still significantly slower than what the hyper loop would attain 0:50:44.480 --> 0:50:46.960 assuming it worked the way we think it's supposed to. Yeah, 0:50:47.040 --> 0:50:49.839 big difference being that maglev trains are wait for it, 0:50:50.040 --> 0:50:53.719 real um. So that I think alone gives them some 0:50:54.040 --> 0:50:58.839 bonus points in my book. But also if we if 0:50:59.160 --> 0:51:03.560 we think about the um the the advantages that maglev 0:51:03.680 --> 0:51:07.840 trains have are um in comparison to the hyper loop. 0:51:08.800 --> 0:51:13.040 You have to ask yourself, does do those advantages make 0:51:13.080 --> 0:51:16.440 the maglev trains a more feasible option? You know? Is 0:51:16.480 --> 0:51:21.040 the advantage of extra speed? Uh? Preferable? I think the 0:51:21.080 --> 0:51:25.520 biggest advantage maglev trains have is not, uh, you know, 0:51:25.600 --> 0:51:27.720 in their operation, but the fact that we have proof 0:51:27.800 --> 0:51:30.960 of that it works, right, Like, we know that maglev 0:51:31.000 --> 0:51:34.560 trains work. So therefore that is a huge advantage over 0:51:34.600 --> 0:51:37.239 the hyper loop because that's something that from what we 0:51:37.320 --> 0:51:39.880 understand it should work assuming you built it the right way, 0:51:40.280 --> 0:51:42.279 but we don't have proof of it alright, so Ben, 0:51:42.360 --> 0:51:44.360 let's talk about this other guy. Have you heard about 0:51:44.520 --> 0:51:50.120 Darryl Auster. Darryl Austere might be familiar. Why he proposed 0:51:50.120 --> 0:51:52.319 a system that would be a transportation system. It's a 0:51:52.440 --> 0:51:57.560 steel tube on some elevated structure, like on pylons that 0:51:57.600 --> 0:52:01.480 would use linear electric motors to push capsules at high 0:52:01.480 --> 0:52:06.279 speed across vast distances. Um, might sound a little familiar. Yeah, Hey, 0:52:06.360 --> 0:52:08.680 I didn't want I didn't want to interrupt, but um, 0:52:08.800 --> 0:52:12.360 this this does sound a little bit familiar. Not to 0:52:12.400 --> 0:52:14.560 be a guy living in the past. But isn't this 0:52:14.680 --> 0:52:17.720 just what we've been talking about? Yeah? Yeah, like, um, 0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:20.719 like five minutes ago. Yes, this is exactly it's it's 0:52:20.719 --> 0:52:24.480 called the Evacuated Tube Transport System or e T three. Right, 0:52:24.560 --> 0:52:27.719 And didn't the e T three hit the news and 0:52:27.840 --> 0:52:33.680 hit the public sphere, uh before this hyperloot proposal. Yeah, 0:52:33.840 --> 0:52:37.640 well before it. And also Auster, interestingly enough, paid a 0:52:37.640 --> 0:52:42.120 little visit earlier this year two SpaceX, which is Um, 0:52:42.200 --> 0:52:43.879 I don't know if you know this because we talked 0:52:43.880 --> 0:52:45.719 about at the top of the show one of the 0:52:45.719 --> 0:52:48.799 things must does. Yeah, it's the it's the ancient paths 0:52:48.920 --> 0:52:51.480 to me. Now the top of the show. But the yes, 0:52:51.760 --> 0:52:54.800 this is a very interesting point because this has fueled 0:52:54.840 --> 0:52:59.160 some uh, some speculation. Yes, yes, yeah, I would agree 0:52:59.239 --> 0:53:01.759 that's a good word for it. So the speculation is 0:53:01.840 --> 0:53:06.719 essentially that perhaps either Musk knew about Auster's idea and 0:53:06.800 --> 0:53:10.640 essentially lifted it because other people had suggested that Auster was, 0:53:11.360 --> 0:53:15.000 for lack of a better word, whackadoodle um, or rather 0:53:15.120 --> 0:53:19.200 that his ideas were probably unrealistic and difficult to put 0:53:19.280 --> 0:53:23.759 into practice, he did not get the same consideration or 0:53:23.880 --> 0:53:27.799 street cred that that he encountered much more skepticisms. Right, 0:53:28.360 --> 0:53:31.960 And it's it's possible that Musk is exactly the right 0:53:32.000 --> 0:53:34.799 guy to go to about this sort of thing, because 0:53:34.840 --> 0:53:38.080 Musk has this already has this past of making these 0:53:38.160 --> 0:53:42.160 incredible accomplishments, things that some people might have called impossible 0:53:42.200 --> 0:53:46.440 before he achieved them. So uh, there's some speculation that 0:53:46.520 --> 0:53:51.120 in fact Musk has licensed the technology or the design 0:53:51.600 --> 0:53:54.040 from Auster. And in fact, Auster has said that there 0:53:54.080 --> 0:53:58.960 are people or organizations that are licensing his ideas, but 0:53:59.120 --> 0:54:01.719 he does not go so far as to identify who 0:54:01.760 --> 0:54:04.160 they are. He says that that's up to them, that 0:54:04.280 --> 0:54:07.239 it's their choice to come out and say, yes, I've 0:54:07.320 --> 0:54:10.319 licensed this technology from so and so. Yeah, and that's 0:54:10.400 --> 0:54:13.000 you see. I think we're being very fair about this 0:54:13.080 --> 0:54:15.560 because the only three things there are three things we 0:54:15.600 --> 0:54:18.560 know for sure. First, the design of hyperloop and et 0:54:18.719 --> 0:54:25.239 three very similar. Second, uh, the Darryl did visit space X. Yes. 0:54:25.760 --> 0:54:30.200 Third uh, Darryl did mention that there was licensing involved. 0:54:30.239 --> 0:54:32.960 But none of that even all of that together does 0:54:33.000 --> 0:54:37.480 not conclusively prove anything. No, it's circumstantial. Circumstantial, so we 0:54:37.560 --> 0:54:41.080 call it. We call it speculation. And I'm gonna go 0:54:41.120 --> 0:54:44.560 ahead and call it interesting. Yes, I I will go 0:54:44.640 --> 0:54:48.480 so far as to say very interesting. I raise your 0:54:48.520 --> 0:54:51.960 interesting with a very um yeah. I think it would 0:54:52.000 --> 0:54:54.839 not surprise me to find out that Musk had heard 0:54:54.840 --> 0:54:57.120 of this and then thought it was a great idea, 0:54:57.560 --> 0:55:01.359 and that maybe together they realized that because the resistance 0:55:01.400 --> 0:55:03.880 that Auster had faced when he was proposing his idea 0:55:03.920 --> 0:55:07.320 to other you know, like essentially outlets were like that's crazy. 0:55:07.480 --> 0:55:10.759 Then Must goes forward and he says essentially the same thing, 0:55:11.640 --> 0:55:17.240 it's crazy awesome. Yeah. So so it's it's possible that 0:55:17.520 --> 0:55:20.160 this is in fact an evolution of Auster's idea. It 0:55:20.239 --> 0:55:22.560 could very well be that it's two people who thought 0:55:22.600 --> 0:55:26.880 the same thing independently. That has happened many, many, many times. 0:55:26.880 --> 0:55:31.480 It happened, Yeah, it happened with It happened with calculus, 0:55:31.800 --> 0:55:35.600 that happened with lots of things, you know. So we're 0:55:35.600 --> 0:55:41.239 not going to jump to that conclusion, but it is interesting, uh. 0:55:41.280 --> 0:55:42.719 And so you know, there are a couple of other 0:55:42.760 --> 0:55:45.520 things we can mention, like there's some other high speed 0:55:45.800 --> 0:55:49.040 uh technologies that could possibly come into play. But I 0:55:49.080 --> 0:55:53.040 think that that really it's down to the brass tacks, Ben. 0:55:53.120 --> 0:55:56.400 I think we have to sit down and actually predict 0:55:57.280 --> 0:56:01.000 will hyper loop come to pass or is it? As 0:56:01.040 --> 0:56:04.600 you mentioned before, vaporware, get out of my head. You're 0:56:04.600 --> 0:56:08.440 reading my mind, man, because you're right, the time has come. Uh. 0:56:08.480 --> 0:56:10.760 I don't know if we have any dramatic music playing 0:56:10.760 --> 0:56:12.359 in the background, but it's in my head right now. 0:56:13.719 --> 0:56:16.839 Who shall do the honors, sir? You know what I'm 0:56:16.880 --> 0:56:22.000 gonna go first. I'm going to say that we will 0:56:22.280 --> 0:56:27.920 not see this become a transportation between Los Angeles and 0:56:27.960 --> 0:56:32.400 San Francisco because the challenges of making sure that it 0:56:32.440 --> 0:56:36.759 will work properly and navigating those tricky political waters that 0:56:36.800 --> 0:56:41.400 are already so invested in a bullet train uh plan 0:56:41.880 --> 0:56:44.799 for those cities. I just think that's too great a 0:56:44.880 --> 0:56:47.680 challenge to overcome. I think that even if you were 0:56:47.719 --> 0:56:51.160 to prove the technology works, getting past that political barrier 0:56:51.400 --> 0:56:56.000 is a huge, huge task, right, Okay, So to dovetail 0:56:56.040 --> 0:56:58.880 onto that, I am going to also have a bit 0:56:58.920 --> 0:57:02.719 of a qualified prediction, and I I predict, I want 0:57:02.719 --> 0:57:05.360 to be optimistic about this, that we're going to see 0:57:05.440 --> 0:57:10.080 something like the hyper loop in the future. However, I 0:57:10.160 --> 0:57:12.960 don't think it's going to be quite up to the 0:57:13.000 --> 0:57:17.320 specs that we've heard proposed, and I am also skeptical 0:57:17.440 --> 0:57:20.000 that it could be built in California at this juncture. 0:57:20.160 --> 0:57:22.240 You know, there's a reason that Google Fiber went to 0:57:22.320 --> 0:57:27.280 Kansas City, right, right, right, that's my prediction something like it. 0:57:27.360 --> 0:57:30.920 And I will say that the hyper loop proposal is 0:57:31.080 --> 0:57:36.400 in many ways much more reserved than Auster's originally, uh 0:57:36.680 --> 0:57:39.800 than his proposal, because Auster had said that he wanted 0:57:39.840 --> 0:57:42.600 this ET three system to be deployed throughout the United States, 0:57:42.640 --> 0:57:45.400 which means that you have interstate politics to deal within, 0:57:45.520 --> 0:57:48.720 not just within one state. Right, You've got all these 0:57:48.760 --> 0:57:52.760 different states that you have to factor into that consideration 0:57:52.840 --> 0:57:56.760 and that makes it way more complex. So, um, I 0:57:56.800 --> 0:57:59.680 think it was a more modest proposal, if you might 0:57:59.720 --> 0:58:02.880 call it that, than the the E T three, but 0:58:03.000 --> 0:58:06.120 I still think it's not you know, there's been some 0:58:06.160 --> 0:58:09.920 discussion that maybe they could look at building one in Texas. First. 0:58:10.560 --> 0:58:13.720 Texas is also a huge state with lots of nothing 0:58:13.840 --> 0:58:17.360 between some of the major cities, so that could possibly 0:58:17.400 --> 0:58:19.800 be something we see. And you know, I hope we 0:58:19.920 --> 0:58:24.800 do see a hyperloop type system in place. I just 0:58:25.000 --> 0:58:26.840 don't think it's going to be between l A and 0:58:26.880 --> 0:58:31.200 San Francisco in the near future. Yeah, agreed. Well, that 0:58:31.240 --> 0:58:34.080 wraps up our discussion about hyper loop. Guys, if you 0:58:34.080 --> 0:58:37.360 have any suggestions for future topics for tech Stuff, let 0:58:37.400 --> 0:58:40.520 me know. Send an email the addresses tech Stuff at 0:58:40.680 --> 0:58:42.960 Discovery dot com. You can also drop us a line 0:58:43.000 --> 0:58:45.680 on our social networks. You can find us on Tumbler, Twitter, 0:58:45.760 --> 0:58:48.360 and Facebook with the handle tech stuff hs w n ben. 0:58:48.360 --> 0:58:52.240 Where can they find your stuff? Oh? Well, thanks for asking, Jonathan. First, 0:58:52.240 --> 0:58:54.520 I want to thank you and Laurence so much for 0:58:54.560 --> 0:58:57.840 having me over on your show. Uh the places where 0:58:57.880 --> 0:59:00.680 you can find me, well, let's see, you can find 0:59:00.720 --> 0:59:03.320 me on a show called Stuff They Don't Want You 0:59:03.360 --> 0:59:08.560 To Know, which is YouTube, iTunes, Facebook, Twitter. Also, Scott 0:59:08.560 --> 0:59:11.240 and I host a show called car Stuff, which dovetails 0:59:11.320 --> 0:59:15.880 nicely for fans of tech um and full disclosure guys, Uh, 0:59:16.000 --> 0:59:18.920 Jonathan and I hang out and stuff outside the office, 0:59:18.920 --> 0:59:21.200 and we do we do talk about this stuff, so 0:59:21.320 --> 0:59:23.840 you might see our ideas popping up in different shows. 0:59:24.560 --> 0:59:26.919 And speaking of that, one of the things I'm most 0:59:26.960 --> 0:59:30.040 excited to talk about. Uh, one of the coolest places 0:59:30.120 --> 0:59:32.680 to find us is you can see the dynamic duo 0:59:32.760 --> 0:59:35.720 you're listening to right now on brain Stuff, right Johnathan. 0:59:35.800 --> 0:59:38.880 That's a video series and there that's actually a rotating 0:59:38.920 --> 0:59:41.760 set of hosts. We don't actually rotate on camera. We 0:59:41.800 --> 0:59:44.240 could do that. We should try it. Yeah, might get 0:59:44.280 --> 0:59:46.920 dizzy after about two or three takes. But the idea 0:59:46.960 --> 0:59:49.479 is that you can actually see different hosts from all 0:59:49.520 --> 0:59:52.040 the different house stuff work shows pop up on that series. 0:59:52.320 --> 0:59:55.000 And Ben and I often will will take a topic 0:59:55.040 --> 1:00:00.000 together and will will be to host performance for brain Stuff, 1:00:00.680 --> 1:00:02.960 which has been that's been a blast. It's been a 1:00:02.960 --> 1:00:04.880 lot of fun. So yeah, you can check us out 1:00:04.880 --> 1:00:07.080 there as well. So there you go. Guys, and we 1:00:07.120 --> 1:00:13.200 will talk to you again really soon for more on 1:00:13.240 --> 1:00:16.000 this and thousands of other topics. Does it, how staff works? 1:00:16.000 --> 1:00:22.000 Dot com