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Speaker 1: This episode talks about sexual assault, murder, and suicide. You're

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Speaker 1: listening to Disinformed, a mini series from There Are No

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Speaker 1: Girls on the Internet. I'm Bridget Todd. We already know

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Speaker 1: that this and misinformation is targeting the latin X community. Now,

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Speaker 1: Voto Latino, the largest latin X voter registration organization in

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Speaker 1: the US, and Media Matters are fighting back. Last week,

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Speaker 1: they announced the launch of the Latino Anti Disinformation Lab,

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Speaker 1: which will work to better understand and combat misinformation at

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Speaker 1: all stages on all mediums, seeking primarily to influence latin

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Speaker 1: X individuals. Now, a few weeks ago, we spoke to

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Speaker 1: Magna Mahadevin, chief disinformation defense strategists at United bi Dream,

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Speaker 1: the country's largest immigrant youth let organization, about how those

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Speaker 1: who want to spread confusion and chaos can pray on

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Speaker 1: immigrant communities and their fears and traumas and also inflame

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Speaker 1: existing tensions and fragments like ten that exist between the

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Speaker 1: black community and the latin X community. Here's what she

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Speaker 1: had to say, particularly the latin X community. There's also

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Speaker 1: a lot of work being done by white supremacists to

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Speaker 1: create a wedge racially with the latin X community and

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Speaker 1: other communities of color, and the way that this is

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Speaker 1: done is very strategically almost creating a race hierarchy. Of

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Speaker 1: affiliating latin X would be with more whiteness um and

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Speaker 1: kind of trying to create a separation from blackness. It

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Speaker 1: also is a full rature of the uffer latin X identity.

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Speaker 1: So by using race as this wedge issue to divide

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Speaker 1: communities um and create this superiority among some latin X folks,

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Speaker 1: there's really a way to misinform people that by accepting

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Speaker 1: and siding with white supremacy, you are now offered the

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Speaker 1: privilege of being white. The case of Vanessakian, a twenty

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Speaker 1: year old Mexican American soldier who was murdered last spring,

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Speaker 1: is a good example of what men and us talking about.

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Speaker 1: We covered this situation on There Are No Girls on

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Speaker 1: the Internet this summer, and it was one of the

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Speaker 1: toughest topics I've ever covered. Even though I already knew

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Speaker 1: that bad actors will often hijack sensitive topics to stoke division,

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Speaker 1: it was still painful to see that there was no

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Speaker 1: bottom to how Lowlo stoop, including using a young woman's

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Speaker 1: tragic death. Let's listen in on what Vanessa Giane's death

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Speaker 1: can teach us about disinformation. Vanessa Guienne was a twenty

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Speaker 1: year old soldier in the U. S. Army. She loved sports.

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Speaker 1: She played soccer and liked to jog. In April, she

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Speaker 1: went missing from the Fort Hood Military base in Texas.

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Speaker 1: On July five, her remains were confirmed to have been found.

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Speaker 1: Vanessa Guienne was a twenty year old soldier in the U. S. Army.

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Speaker 1: She loved sports, She played soccer and liked to jog.

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Speaker 1: In April, she went missing from the Fort Hood Military

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Speaker 1: base in Texas. On July five, her remains were confirmed

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Speaker 1: to have been found. Here's her sister to in the

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Speaker 1: ABC News. She was taking away from me the most

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Speaker 1: horrible way, Yet they take it if it was a joke.

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Speaker 1: My sisters know, choke my sisters who human means just

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Speaker 1: like me, her, all of us. Aaron David Robinson, another soldier,

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Speaker 1: killed himself as police for trying to take him into

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Speaker 1: custody for her murder. Before she died, gian told her

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Speaker 1: mother that she was being sexually harassed. Forth Hood is

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Speaker 1: one of the highest rates of murder, sexual assault, and

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Speaker 1: harassment in the army. Online. Many other soldiers used what

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Speaker 1: happen to her to come forward to share their own

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Speaker 1: stories about sexual harassment in the military using the call

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Speaker 1: I Am Vanessa Gien. Her family is demanding changes and

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Speaker 1: how the military handles sexual harassment complaints, and protesters around

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Speaker 1: the country amplified her family's demands for answers and change.

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Speaker 1: Gian's death is a terrible tragedy, and for as many

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Speaker 1: people used her death to highlight important conversations about how

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Speaker 1: our country's institution and fail the very people who fight

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Speaker 1: for our country, others used it to fuel hate and confusion. Online.

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Speaker 1: Researchers and digital activists are seeing the way her tragic

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Speaker 1: story is being used to feel disinformation in Latin X

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Speaker 1: online spaces. Because her killer was believed to be a

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Speaker 1: black man, Big Facebook pages began promoting stories about Vaness's

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Speaker 1: death as a way to sew divisions between Latin X

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Speaker 1: communities and Black Lives Matter advocates. Unfortunately, when it comes

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Speaker 1: to how disinformation spreads online, this isn't at all uncommon.

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Speaker 1: Bad actors pick up on sensitive or emotionally charged topics

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Speaker 1: involving wedge issues like race and use them to spread fear, confusion,

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Speaker 1: and suspicion among each other. They often exploit existing fractures

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Speaker 1: between communities to pit marginalized groups against each other. But

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Speaker 1: because we don't actually spend a lot of time talking

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Speaker 1: about marginalized communities in general, let alone how our identities

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Speaker 1: shape the online experience, we aren't talking about the big

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Speaker 1: threat this tactic presents, and it's a problem. So the

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Speaker 1: first time that actually became aware of how targeted are

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Speaker 1: folks are was in two six when I saw someone

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Speaker 1: on my Facebook posted a picture of an ICE agent

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Speaker 1: or someone who looked like an ICE agent with sort

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Speaker 1: of the ice um you know, acronymy in the back

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Speaker 1: of his jacket arresting someone at what looked like was

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Speaker 1: a polling location and um it was something along the lines,

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Speaker 1: and someone had posted it said be careful everyone, ICE is,

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Speaker 1: you know, around the voting locations, And you know, when

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Speaker 1: I looked at it closely, I was like, well, this

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Speaker 1: looks this picture looks photoshopped. But that was sort of

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Speaker 1: the first time that I saw something that I was like, huh,

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Speaker 1: they're actually somebody's actually thinking this through and kind of

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Speaker 1: knows the nerves in the of the community in terms

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Speaker 1: of the figure the figures that exist and are communities,

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Speaker 1: even though we all know that, you know, undocumented people

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Speaker 1: are not going to go vote, But the message that

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Speaker 1: we're trying to send is like, you know, immigration is

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Speaker 1: doing raids around voting locations. You know, therefore people might

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Speaker 1: just be fearful of going because you know, some folks

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Speaker 1: are living in mixed status families and so on and

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Speaker 1: so forth. So that was sort of the first time

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Speaker 1: that I saw something and it just made me pause

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Speaker 1: and think about the level of disinformation that was spreading

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Speaker 1: targeting the Latino community. Vanessa Cartinez is a long time

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Speaker 1: activist and policy expert. She's seen the way that disinformation

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Speaker 1: online plays on our community's fear to create confusion, but

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Speaker 1: when she saw the Waygian story was being used online,

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Speaker 1: she was shocked. So that was actually really shocking, um

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Speaker 1: because obviously the Vanessa Gillian case has touched such a

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Speaker 1: nerve in the community in the sense of, you know,

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Speaker 1: this the soldier that has dedicate her life for a country.

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Speaker 1: So I guess I would say, you know, probably like

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Speaker 1: two weeks, well maybe like a little bit right after

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Speaker 1: they identify the suspect of the case, you know, I

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Speaker 1: would say dates after it I started seeing some of

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Speaker 1: these um pictures that means about um pretty much about

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Speaker 1: the you know, the the suspected killer and just driving

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Speaker 1: this message of you know, black and brown tensions and

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Speaker 1: just amplifying the sort of the message or you know,

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Speaker 1: where where's the Black Lives Matter movement when it comes

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Speaker 1: to a Latino that has been killed by a black person.

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Speaker 1: So that was again really um eye opening. But I

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Speaker 1: also feel it was at least for me, by then,

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Speaker 1: I was already just I've been aware more of sort

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Speaker 1: of disinformation that's been spreading, so I was not surprised.

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Speaker 1: But again, I think it just speaks to the level

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Speaker 1: of this strategy that's out there about amplifying fear, distrust

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Speaker 1: and just creating wedges between these communities, which I think

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Speaker 1: we're going to see moral and they are these bad

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Speaker 1: actors are really using every opportunity they can to to actually,

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Speaker 1: you know, create this wedges. Facebook groups with big followings

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Speaker 1: and reach made posts about the End's death asking whether

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Speaker 1: Lot's next community should support Black Lives Matter when a

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Speaker 1: black man killed one of their own. The intention is

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Speaker 1: pretty clear. Rather than amplifying her important story and her

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Speaker 1: family's calls for justice and change, is an attempt to

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Speaker 1: use her story to so mistrust and animosity between marginalized communities.

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Speaker 1: Why researchers say it has to do with the upcoming election.

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Speaker 1: A Cobra Lacona is the disinformation research lead at Ecky Slabs,

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Speaker 1: a group that works to build an active Latino electorate.

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Speaker 1: His team's pretty much the same thing she did. That

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Speaker 1: gian story was being used to criticize Black Lives Matter

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Speaker 1: and the protests that followed the death of unarmed black

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Speaker 1: people like George Floyd by police. We started seeing conservative

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Speaker 1: Latin X accounts, including you know, Spanish language pages, trying

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Speaker 1: to build racial tension between black and Latin ex communities.

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Speaker 1: After they found her body and her death was confirmed,

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Speaker 1: and so we saw conservative Latin X actors starting to

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Speaker 1: criticize Black Lives Matter for not protesting her death and

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Speaker 1: for staying silent. And you know, after they found her body,

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Speaker 1: the man who was linked to her murder killed himself

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Speaker 1: either the same day or the next day, and so

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Speaker 1: we saw conservative Latin X accounts promoting you know, race

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Speaker 1: blindness around gain by amplifying the fact that the killer

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Speaker 1: was a black man and that, you know, they started

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Speaker 1: promoting all Lives matter narratives and things like that. So

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Speaker 1: we saw you know, different memes comparing the black man

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Speaker 1: who killed the into the white police officer and essentially saying,

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Speaker 1: you know, promoting an arrative that race has nothing to

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Speaker 1: do with Floyd's killing. Or we also saw bad actors,

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Speaker 1: you know, asking why Latinos weren't We're protesting for BLM,

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Speaker 1: but weren't protesting for other Latinos like Vanessa. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, there was a lot of racial tension building

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Speaker 1: early on once you know, reports came once reports came

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Speaker 1: out and they found her body. So do you think

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Speaker 1: the people who were running these accounts actually cared about

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Speaker 1: sharing gean story. I mean, I think they're definitely trying

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Speaker 1: to make it like a wedge issue. And we often

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Speaker 1: see even in just in other narratives, bad actors trying

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Speaker 1: to you know, seek to inflame pre existing tensions within

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Speaker 1: in between communities. So you know, part of their goal

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Speaker 1: is to depressed votes and more progressive communities, including the

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Speaker 1: Latin X community. And so if they can build a

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Speaker 1: wedge between black and line X voters, that can you know,

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Speaker 1: potentially drive some of those people to Trump in November.

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Speaker 1: But I think one big problem here is that you know,

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Speaker 1: within the Lattex community, we've kind of failed to confront

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Speaker 1: the anti blackness that exists in our own community, and

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Speaker 1: I think the far right definitely takes advantag into that

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Speaker 1: to scope racial tension. So, you know, one thing, it's

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Speaker 1: important that we start acknowledging the anti blackness that exists

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Speaker 1: in our community and show unity. Um. And you know,

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Speaker 1: we should especially be doing this because again, like black

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Speaker 1: and Latinex are not mutually exclusive. You know, the far

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Speaker 1: right and many people in the Lotex community tend to

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Speaker 1: ignore the after latin X community, and so especially they're right,

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Speaker 1: you know, the right is effectively excluding them from the

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Speaker 1: from their narratives and we should ignore. And I don't

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Speaker 1: think we should be ignoring that. So, like going back

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Speaker 1: to Vanessa's death specifically, um, you know, I think with

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Speaker 1: an increase and attention on Black Lives Matter and even

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Speaker 1: you know, brands responding to current moments of racial justice,

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Speaker 1: we see a lot of bad actors looking for opportunities

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Speaker 1: to create division among communities of color. Let's take a

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Speaker 1: quick break center back. Facebook is a big part of

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Speaker 1: how this all goes down. For instance, the pro Trump

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Speaker 1: Facebook group the Conservative Choice has over a hundred thousand followers,

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Speaker 1: and many of their posts are dedicated to criticizing black celebrities,

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Speaker 1: like calling Caprick black Lives Matter, and calls for racial justice.

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Speaker 1: One post even accuses Facebook the company itself, of supporting

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Speaker 1: racism by telling people to avoid Latino businesses because of

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Speaker 1: an initiative highlighting black owned business Similarly, online protesters calls

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Speaker 1: for businesses to hire more black people get twisted into

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Speaker 1: them calling for businesses not to hire Latinos. Many of

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Speaker 1: the other posts on the page our videos or images

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Speaker 1: depicting violent attacks on Latinos or Latino owned businesses by

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Speaker 1: black people to drive home the idea that the Latin

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Speaker 1: X community shouldn't trust or support the black community like

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Speaker 1: a cobo. Vanessa also sees the ways that anti blackness

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Speaker 1: and the erasure of Afro latin X identities how presented

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Speaker 1: fractures and tensions and communities of color that bad actors

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Speaker 1: can exploit online. So but I so, what kind of

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Speaker 1: content have you've seen online being used to subdivision but

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Speaker 1: then communities of color? Yes, so we're seeing a lot

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Speaker 1: of UM stories, for example, UM of black men violently

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Speaker 1: attacking Latino men. You know, very graphic, very valent post pictures. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's one thing. And and I should say something also

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Speaker 1: bridge and that is that we know that there are

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Speaker 1: black people in the Latino community, Like we have a

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Speaker 1: rich history of Afro you know, of African descent in

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Speaker 1: the community, whether it's the Caribbean or proof and I'm

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Speaker 1: from Bolivia and even and even in Bolivia we are

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Speaker 1: we have Bolivians who are of African descent. So you know.

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Speaker 1: But but the way this um um discurrent disinformation efforts,

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Speaker 1: you know, what they're trying to do is just you know,

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Speaker 1: make us look like the other right, like to separate us.

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Speaker 1: So you do have sort of, like I was saying,

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Speaker 1: this really graphic posts just amplifying violence that is incurred,

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Speaker 1: that is in how they describe it or in how

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Speaker 1: they posted you know, by black men. There's also a

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Speaker 1: lot of content out there about painting the Black Lives

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Speaker 1: Movement about you know that is violent. Um, they have

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Speaker 1: a lot of content that's showing, for example, that the

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Speaker 1: Black Lives Movement protesters are destroying churches or burning bibles.

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Speaker 1: So really going to sort of you know, some of

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Speaker 1: the themes of you know, Latino communities. It's very you know,

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Speaker 1: faith center, and so they're trying to sort of agreeing

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Speaker 1: to go at this pressure point and hit those nerves

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Speaker 1: where the community on things that the community cares about.

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Speaker 1: We are on the one Alian case, there's there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of content out there amplifying that her that

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Speaker 1: that the alleged killer was black, and promoting the old

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Speaker 1: Lives Matter narrative and questioning how come the the black

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Speaker 1: Lives movement doesn't show up for Latinos when Latinos are

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Speaker 1: being killed and so on and so forth. So that's

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Speaker 1: the type of content we're seeing now and um, and

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Speaker 1: again we know that every time there's a flashpoint or there,

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Speaker 1: every time there's something that's happening just you know, a

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Speaker 1: national the national level or even at the local level.

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Speaker 1: I mean, there was a there were some posts I

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Speaker 1: think it was, um, I want to say in Louisiana

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Speaker 1: about just about the Black Lives Matter movement. Um. I

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Speaker 1: think that there was a demand that, you know, all

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Speaker 1: businesses should hire people of color. And but then how

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Speaker 1: they were how the bots or the sort of the

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Speaker 1: disinformation but actors were trying to frame it was that

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Speaker 1: the black Lives movement, we're forcing Latino business owners to

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Speaker 1: hire not to hire you know, non latinos, so things

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Speaker 1: like that, Right, So they're trying to again press this

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Speaker 1: um this this really um specific issues in the community

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Speaker 1: where they know that it hits a nerve and just

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Speaker 1: just amplify those. And we know we're gonna be getting

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Speaker 1: more of those as things get just more heated as

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Speaker 1: we come closer to the election. All truly blessed at

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Speaker 1: the same time to have a leader like President Trump,

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Speaker 1: who is a builder. Bad actors online sees on conversations

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Speaker 1: that require sensitivity or nuance to talk about, just like

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Speaker 1: they had no problems seizing on gans death to push

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Speaker 1: harmful narratives online. After Goya CEO faced backlash for praising

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Speaker 1: Trump earlier this year, some accounts purporting to belong to

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Speaker 1: Latino social media users used it to spread accusations of

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Speaker 1: a mob of PC bullies attacking a hard working community

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Speaker 1: of color. But wind Black Polante, a group that trains

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Speaker 1: voters to identify disinformation, found that some of the accounts

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Speaker 1: pushing this narrative were actually bots online. The going a

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Speaker 1: controversy appeared to boil down to black lives matter versus

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Speaker 1: the lots of next community. Ashley Bryant works with Winn

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Speaker 1: Black Pilante, and she says social media platforms aren't doing

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Speaker 1: enough to curb the spread of this kind of disinformation.

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Speaker 1: We just experienced a couple of weeks ago when the

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Speaker 1: Goya CEO you know, decided to share his support for Trump,

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Speaker 1: UM and that became a controversy in itself, but also

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Speaker 1: unleashed a right wing operation around UM, you know, trying

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Speaker 1: to really disparage the true message. You know, Julian Castro

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Speaker 1: and UM AOC you know, really stepped up and and

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Speaker 1: shared you know, if you share the values of Trump,

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Speaker 1: you are not supporting our community. And UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: we saw a bot be unleashed on Facebook within you know,

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Speaker 1: a couple of hours, and it took a couple of

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Speaker 1: days before Facebook was able to actually remove the these

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Speaker 1: um you know, fake comments, fake agents. UM, and our

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Speaker 1: operations saw it within a day, right, And so it's

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Speaker 1: just you know, there's hundreds of people and there in

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Speaker 1: their organization that are allegedly focused on this, but yet

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Speaker 1: we were able to identify that these were boughts and

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Speaker 1: just under a couple of hours. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: it really is um disheartening to see that these companies

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Speaker 1: aren't really ready to step up into this moment. This

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Speaker 1: isn't a partisan issue, right, Misinformation and disinformation is not

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Speaker 1: a political issue. It is literally to suppress entire communities

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Speaker 1: that need to exercise their right to vote. And if

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Speaker 1: these tech companies don't see it that way, you really

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Speaker 1: have to question what their purposes are. But that's also

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Speaker 1: saw the way that conversations around Goya oversimplified the narrative online.

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Speaker 1: But she says the narratives pushing division, even when Trump

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Speaker 1: himself picks up on it, probably won't resonate much with

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Speaker 1: most folks in the Latin xt community. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think they're trying really hard to sort of make the connection. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: even the Trump administration right picked up on it um

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Speaker 1: getting Ivanka to post that ridiculous UM tweet with her

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Speaker 1: holding um a kind of Goya being Again, I think

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Speaker 1: they're just sort of trying to amplify the wedges and

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Speaker 1: just really in the case of Goya, you know, I

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Speaker 1: think that the average Latino who's you know again, losing

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Speaker 1: their jobs because of COVID and just trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out how they're going to survive this pandemic. This is

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Speaker 1: not something that resonates with them. Um, but I do

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Speaker 1: think again there's online there's just this effort to say,

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Speaker 1: you know, Democrats are against business owners, Democrats are trying

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Speaker 1: to shut this down, when we know that that's you

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Speaker 1: know that that was not the case. I mean, people

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Speaker 1: have the thing that people had issue with, where the

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Speaker 1: comments of the Goya president who again is supporting Trump,

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Speaker 1: and Trump we know is driving a very dict divisive

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Speaker 1: and just really Antilentino agenda. So that that's the point.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of this again there's this information

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Speaker 1: effort is just to confuse the truth, right, it's to

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Speaker 1: just to to take attention from the real issues and

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Speaker 1: just focus it on sort of the specific narratives that

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Speaker 1: benefits them. And it goes along to sort of their

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Speaker 1: their overall frame that Democrats are socialists, the democrats you know,

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Speaker 1: don't believe in God. That democrats you know, are just

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Speaker 1: just driving a socialist agenda and they don't want anyone

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Speaker 1: to be successful. So so again it just goes off

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Speaker 1: to the broader narratives that are trying to push. Once

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Speaker 1: an official Trump Facebook page or even Trump himself signal

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Speaker 1: boosts these narratives, they can spread far and wide. Sometimes

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Speaker 1: it's not even helpful to know where it's coming from,

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Speaker 1: because anything that's getting a lot of engagement, it's going

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Speaker 1: to circulate pretty far. You know, like Trump, for example,

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Speaker 1: is the biggest amplifier of this info, and it allows

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Speaker 1: other bad actors to follow him, which can you know,

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Speaker 1: really increase stations around certain topics. But you know, when

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Speaker 1: it comes to a lot in X spaces. There's a

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Speaker 1: network of conservative lack x Facebook groups that are part

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Speaker 1: of this movement called Lexi, and they tend to work

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Speaker 1: together and you know, coordinated tax across their network of pages.

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Speaker 1: So the Lexi movement itself, it gained prominence in eighteen

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Speaker 1: as you know, an effort to help Latinos exit the

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Speaker 1: Democratic Party or they left and kind of embrace more

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Speaker 1: conservative values. Uh. There's actually another one called blex it,

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Speaker 1: which is a little more popular, and it's kind of

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Speaker 1: equivalent for the black community and trying to push more

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Speaker 1: black people to embrace conservative values. But the network of

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Speaker 1: lex It Facebook pages, they have a wide range in

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Speaker 1: their audiences. So like depending on certain Facebook pages, some

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Speaker 1: have hundreds of thousands of followers, others have tens of

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Speaker 1: thousands of followers, but they frequently share you know, misleading

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Speaker 1: and factually incorrect narratives, and they tend to coordinate within

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Speaker 1: each other, but also with the latinos for Trump network,

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Speaker 1: which is an official like latin x page for the

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Speaker 1: for the campaign. So you know, when they're able to

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Speaker 1: coordinate with each other, they're able to you know, push

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Speaker 1: narratives to more feeds and allow more people to see it.

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Speaker 1: You might expect to see messages about people on the

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Speaker 1: left being godless socialists who hate hard working business owners

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Speaker 1: from a Facebook page that is explicitly advocating for Trump,

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Speaker 1: But a Cobo says that pages that appear to be

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Speaker 1: nonpartisan can sometimes present an even bigger threat when it

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Speaker 1: comes to the spread of harmful narratives online. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: I think the reality is that we often see less

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Speaker 1: partisan lantics pages help spread disinformation, especially around conversations that

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Speaker 1: either resonate with the lot next community or conversations in

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Speaker 1: the mainstream media. And the real problem is that these

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Speaker 1: nonpartison spaces they often become more dangerous in the far

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Speaker 1: right spaces because they appear to be more trustworthy messengers,

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Speaker 1: and people tend to believe or trust what these pages

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Speaker 1: are promoting. So I mean even around in areaves around,

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Speaker 1: and it reached less partisan lantic spaces. And for example,

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Speaker 1: I saw one Facebook page that was intended to bring

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Speaker 1: you know, Mexicans together, and it has hundreds of thousands

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Speaker 1: of followers and they're typically posting, you know, more cultural

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Speaker 1: type things, but they started posting narratives around in that

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Speaker 1: period to try to build tension within the lat of community.

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Speaker 1: And again so like when they do that, these the

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Speaker 1: people who are following these pages, they start you know,

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Speaker 1: believing some of these messages because you know, they're not

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Speaker 1: in those pages for partisan reasons. So these less partisan

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Speaker 1: online spaces that are created where people feel like there

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Speaker 1: are a part of a community, but then disinformation comes in.

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Speaker 1: It's like the stuff around, like the stuff around gan

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Speaker 1: they're they're more likely to believe this these narratives. One

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Speaker 1: of our concerns as we look at how disinformation is

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Speaker 1: spreading is the fact that we've seen some of this

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Speaker 1: content migrate from very partisan pages to nonpartisan pages, especially

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Speaker 1: around the Essagilian case and her murder and all of that.

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Speaker 1: We saw, for example, a lot of Mexican organizing pages,

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Speaker 1: you know that hometown associations and and people who really

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Speaker 1: were following the case super closely to start picking up

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Speaker 1: some of these right, and and they have you know,

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Speaker 1: thousands of retweets, and and that's the concern, right and

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Speaker 1: and again it's because it is I think that also

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Speaker 1: the message for us, for progressives is that it is

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Speaker 1: so important to magnify our message, our message of solidarity,

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Speaker 1: our message of supporting each other's movements, our message of

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Speaker 1: you know that we're owing this together. And I think

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Speaker 1: that is the real that's the real challenge for us,

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Speaker 1: because we're not going to be able to you know,

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Speaker 1: what was happening on the on the right, or in

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Speaker 1: the circles or among these bad actors. We're not really

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Speaker 1: going to be able to minimize that. What we can

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Speaker 1: do is inoculate ourselves and our community against it, and

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Speaker 1: that is by building trust affirmatively and intentionally and elevating

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Speaker 1: trusted voices so that when somebody sees this, you know,

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Speaker 1: this post, they're like weight. But you know, I saw

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Speaker 1: some another post from someone in my community that I

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Speaker 1: respect and I know, and they are posting positive content

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Speaker 1: that it speaks about unity. So I think for us

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Speaker 1: that's the challenge, And how are we magnifying the positive

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Speaker 1: vision and the positive content UM to actually inoculate ourselves

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Speaker 1: and inoculate our communities from this content. And it's not easy,

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying, you know, and I think progresses right

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Speaker 1: now we have our hands full. But I think that's

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Speaker 1: the challenge, UM that we need to uh create content,

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Speaker 1: amplified content, not go down the rabbit hole. You know.

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Speaker 1: One of the actually the hardest things about this information

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Speaker 1: that we often share with progressives is don't amplify it

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Speaker 1: because and that is actually harder than it sounds, because

431
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 1: sometimes people, in the effort not to amplify it, they

432
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,200
Speaker 1: actually retweet it, you know, because there's or they're reposted

433
00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 1: because they're trying to debunk the claim. But just by

434
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: really you know, retweeting about it or reposting, you're actually,

435
00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: even if you're saying this is not true, you are

436
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: in fact getting more eyes on that post. And that's

437
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,960
Speaker 1: you know, that's the problems. More after that quick break,

438
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: let's get right back to it. Talking about disinformation online

439
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:51,480
Speaker 1: is difficult, and because of the nature of algorithms, when

440
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 1: you try to respond to correct the record, you could

441
00:26:53,840 --> 00:26:57,520
Speaker 1: actually be accidentally amplifying it because they're giving it more engagement.

442
00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:00,000
Speaker 1: It's also important to keep in mind that this isn't

443
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:05,000
Speaker 1: just stuff happening online. Disinformation has real consequences because it

444
00:27:05,000 --> 00:27:08,399
Speaker 1: translates to real world behavior, and right now, with the

445
00:27:08,440 --> 00:27:11,600
Speaker 1: Latin X community representing a growing and important voting block,

446
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:16,560
Speaker 1: it has big implications for the upcoming election. A Cobo says,

447
00:27:16,640 --> 00:27:19,000
Speaker 1: this kind of disinformation is meant to push Latin X

448
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: voters to either vote for Trump or to not vote

449
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,600
Speaker 1: at all, like that phony picture of immigration arrests outside

450
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,920
Speaker 1: of polling places that Vanessa mentioned earlier. This is kind

451
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: of personal for me. I've seen the way dangerous disinformation

452
00:27:32,359 --> 00:27:36,520
Speaker 1: has impacts of my own community. Communities of color have

453
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:39,760
Speaker 1: good reason to be skeptical of our political and medical institutions,

454
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:45,719
Speaker 1: institutions that historically we can't always trust. But COVID has

455
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: just made everything worse. I see memes spreading false information

456
00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 1: about COVID and the election being shared by people that

457
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 1: I love, and it just makes me feel so frustrated. Yeah,

458
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:00,320
Speaker 1: you talked earlier about the importance of a knock relating

459
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:04,880
Speaker 1: your community against this information, and I really felt that,

460
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,320
Speaker 1: you know, my people are black, were from the South.

461
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: When it comes to things like voting. It is not

462
00:28:10,440 --> 00:28:13,280
Speaker 1: always as easy as just going to vote. You know,

463
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: in these states there are voter ID laws and other

464
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: kinds of barriers to just going and casting your ballot.

465
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: So I really see a lot of disinformation being spread

466
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:28,080
Speaker 1: around voting, and particularly now with COVID. I've seen a

467
00:28:28,119 --> 00:28:31,439
Speaker 1: lot of elders in my own community posting things that

468
00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: I know where rooted in this very real fear around COVID,

469
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,560
Speaker 1: and they have they I understand where it comes from.

470
00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:41,160
Speaker 1: You know, COVID has ravaged black and brown community, so

471
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: these so these folks are like, their concerns are very valid.

472
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 1: It's been a frustrating challenge to acknowledge and validate these

473
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:55,200
Speaker 1: very real fears in my own community while also not

474
00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,960
Speaker 1: letting people that I care about give over to fear

475
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:05,200
Speaker 1: and spread harmful, in correct information because they're fearful. It's

476
00:29:05,240 --> 00:29:08,760
Speaker 1: been a challenge. No, and I and I am so

477
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,200
Speaker 1: um connect with you on that point, and I can

478
00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 1: totally relate. Um. You know, I am the first generation

479
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:19,040
Speaker 1: most of my family or like my aunts and uncles,

480
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 1: they came here when they're adults, so they are just

481
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,320
Speaker 1: you know, this is a I think it's really important

482
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:27,000
Speaker 1: for us to realize that this is a very difficult moment.

483
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: It is a very confusing moment, you know, and I

484
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:33,719
Speaker 1: think especially the older generation, they're just like they just

485
00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: don't know what's happening, you know, and they're they're fearful

486
00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 1: for the future. And there, you know, they see what's happening,

487
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 1: you know, in our country with Trump, they see COVID,

488
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 1: they see their employment gains being a race, they see

489
00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:50,200
Speaker 1: their incomes being a race, and they are helped. You know,

490
00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: we are the communities that are feeling the brunt of

491
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 1: the impact of the pandemic. Now on top of that

492
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 1: you add this whole you know that the new process

493
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,520
Speaker 1: of both my male right, it's it's a new process

494
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,560
Speaker 1: for a lot of folks that they're not familiar how

495
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: to you know, request about it. They have they have

496
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: never voted by mail, many of them. And then the

497
00:30:09,520 --> 00:30:11,880
Speaker 1: other the other piece of this is even for young

498
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: people like oh yeah, they don't carry around the book

499
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 1: of stamps like some of us did. Right, So when

500
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 1: you think about it, you know, it really presents a

501
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,480
Speaker 1: lot of challenges and that's why, you know, I think

502
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:28,400
Speaker 1: that again part of our challenges progressives is you know,

503
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:32,560
Speaker 1: how are we what what voter education efforts are we implementing,

504
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:35,760
Speaker 1: Even in this era of COVID, when everything has to

505
00:30:35,800 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 1: be done virtually, I think that's going to force us

506
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:42,960
Speaker 1: to innovate, but also to have those conversations that we've

507
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:46,320
Speaker 1: been putting off, because I do believe that the best

508
00:30:46,360 --> 00:30:50,600
Speaker 1: way to inoculate people is to just have an honest conversation.

509
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 1: And you're not going to be able to convince your

510
00:30:54,200 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: aunt or uncle in the first time, but I think

511
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 1: just started to have those conversations about what's happening in

512
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,480
Speaker 1: our country, you know, why, why their their voice is

513
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: so important, UM and and how this process is changing,

514
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: and just repeating that message over and over again. I

515
00:31:11,560 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: think it's one of the most effective strategies and and

516
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,120
Speaker 1: and again. I like I said earlier, the best way

517
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: to inoculate yourself is like when you have a trusted messenger,

518
00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:25,000
Speaker 1: when you have someone who's in the community, who people

519
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 1: go to for information. Those are I think, UM, those

520
00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 1: are the people that are going to help us UM

521
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: face this really on slaw of this information because they

522
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,880
Speaker 1: are the ones that the community listens to. And that's

523
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,040
Speaker 1: why we need to empower those folks with the tools

524
00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,200
Speaker 1: that they need, an information that they need, and you know,

525
00:31:48,280 --> 00:31:52,320
Speaker 1: just help drive that message in that positiveness message that

526
00:31:52,360 --> 00:31:55,920
Speaker 1: I was speaking about earlier. M So, what can everyday

527
00:31:55,920 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: people do to help curb the spread of this information

528
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:04,360
Speaker 1: should misinformation, particularly in marginalized communities. Yeah, well, the first

529
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,959
Speaker 1: thing I would say is just really be careful about

530
00:32:07,040 --> 00:32:12,280
Speaker 1: what you're amplifying online and what might seem harmless to you, Um,

531
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: it's probably not harmless, right, So just really always be

532
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: mindful of your sources and the message that the messages

533
00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: that you are posting. So that would be the very

534
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:26,880
Speaker 1: first thing. The second thing is, you know, it's informing yourself,

535
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,600
Speaker 1: especially when we talk about voting, and because we know

536
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,760
Speaker 1: that's actually going to be a big target of the

537
00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 1: attacks and the disinformation moving forward, especially as we get

538
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:39,840
Speaker 1: closer to election, and especially because these new processes around

539
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 1: both by mail, So really informing yourself themselves about the

540
00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 1: the deadlines and the requirements on voting absentee or voting

541
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: by mail, so that you can share that information um

542
00:32:52,080 --> 00:32:55,640
Speaker 1: with your community and your loved ones. And and then

543
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:58,400
Speaker 1: the third thing is again you know, just trying to

544
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,440
Speaker 1: amplify a positive man message, a message of unity and solidarity.

545
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:06,320
Speaker 1: I think if we we we do that, we will

546
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:08,720
Speaker 1: go it will go a long way. Because right now,

547
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,200
Speaker 1: but actors are trying to amplify fear. Therefore, we need

548
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,440
Speaker 1: to amplify a positive message of positive vision for a

549
00:33:15,560 --> 00:33:19,880
Speaker 1: movement and for our country moving forward. Ashley's team that

550
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 1: Win Black Polente is taking this message to heart. Rather

551
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:25,720
Speaker 1: than waiting for tech leaders like Mark Zuckerberg to do

552
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 1: the right thing and curb the spread of harmful disinformation

553
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:32,960
Speaker 1: on their platforms, her team is established a disinformation war

554
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: room to train black and Latin X voters and other

555
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:42,280
Speaker 1: grassroots advocacy organizations to spot disinformation themselves and provides messaging

556
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,720
Speaker 1: tools to counter it with accurate information without amplifying it.

557
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: Our strategy is really teaching people that we don't want

558
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:54,680
Speaker 1: to amplify the misinformation, right that is counterproductive. But what

559
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:56,800
Speaker 1: we do want to do is put in the space

560
00:33:56,880 --> 00:34:00,640
Speaker 1: counter narratives while also educating folks. And so we have

561
00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:05,320
Speaker 1: a daily war room where we bring our team together

562
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: to go over analysis, go over our research briefs, and

563
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 1: so it really adds another level of authenticity because it's

564
00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,040
Speaker 1: not just you know, our campaign that's trying to come

565
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,480
Speaker 1: in and talk to folks. But we're working with these

566
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,560
Speaker 1: organizations that have created a sense of community with with

567
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 1: their not just their online audiences, but you know, the

568
00:34:25,160 --> 00:34:28,839
Speaker 1: citizens within their regions um and we're able to really

569
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:32,280
Speaker 1: spread this message of like, look, this is how you identify.

570
00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,439
Speaker 1: These people are trolls. They are bought. They are not

571
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,600
Speaker 1: trying to appeal to you in any way beyond trying

572
00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: to mislead you. And you should know this. And the

573
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 1: only way to fight back is to register and vote.

574
00:34:45,360 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: Loosely translated, the slang term polente means to go forward,

575
00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: and Ashley's team at Wind Black Polente are working to

576
00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:59,799
Speaker 1: help communities of color go forward stronger in solidarity. You know,

577
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 1: I can't help, but notice that your organization has two names,

578
00:35:02,719 --> 00:35:06,880
Speaker 1: when Black and Polente. You know, we see these narratives

579
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: being pushed by bad actors that there lots the next

580
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:12,360
Speaker 1: community in the black community. We can't work together. We

581
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,440
Speaker 1: have to be living in fear of each other. We

582
00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:16,879
Speaker 1: have to be suspicious of each other. Not only there's

583
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,160
Speaker 1: this framework obviously erase the fact that there are plenty

584
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,960
Speaker 1: of acur Latinos out there, but it's also just not true.

585
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,560
Speaker 1: And I guess my question is how do we get

586
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:28,400
Speaker 1: to a place where we can present the truth that

587
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:32,120
Speaker 1: our communities are stronger together. Absolutely, And I mean you

588
00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: to have my answer and in the last um, in

589
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,520
Speaker 1: your last sentence, because simply that's the truth. We are

590
00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,359
Speaker 1: stronger together, and they know that, UM, and so they

591
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,200
Speaker 1: want to do anything to divide these two communities. And

592
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:48,240
Speaker 1: and you know it's it's simply just discussing quite honestly.

593
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:53,240
Speaker 1: I mean, we most recently we're seeing this misinformation around.

594
00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,719
Speaker 1: You know, the Black Lives Matter movement did put out

595
00:35:56,080 --> 00:35:59,480
Speaker 1: a letter that was that was UM kind of describing

596
00:35:59,560 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 1: some of the air demands, and we're seeing a lot

597
00:36:02,680 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 1: of right wing operatives that are bowling it down, taking

598
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,240
Speaker 1: out a lot of the context with within the letter

599
00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,640
Speaker 1: and sharing that the Black Lives Matter movement are are

600
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: against immigrants or um, they are you know, doing muffia tactics,

601
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:21,920
Speaker 1: if if you will, which is simply just not the truth.

602
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:26,200
Speaker 1: And they're spreading these untruths in a very broad manner UM.

603
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:29,040
Speaker 1: And so you know, it's really important for us. And

604
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,879
Speaker 1: I'm glad that you underscored the polone because we do

605
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:35,560
Speaker 1: have a lot of next focus and and because we

606
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:38,319
Speaker 1: want to bring our two communities together in this fight.

607
00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: There's so many critical issues um that both communities share, right,

608
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:47,200
Speaker 1: but also neither of these communities are monolithic, and it's

609
00:36:47,360 --> 00:36:52,279
Speaker 1: it's it's really almost um embarrassing to see that a

610
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,720
Speaker 1: lot of these operatives think of our communities as such,

611
00:36:55,840 --> 00:36:59,440
Speaker 1: and so they're doing these tactics to really, you know,

612
00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:03,120
Speaker 1: it's almost like this distributed racism um, to really put

613
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 1: these two communities against each other. And so we're really

614
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:12,600
Speaker 1: building a sense of let's educate uh, Black voters, Latin

615
00:37:12,719 --> 00:37:15,720
Speaker 1: X voters, Let's educate folks on what are the issues

616
00:37:15,760 --> 00:37:18,799
Speaker 1: that really matter to us, who are the leaders in

617
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,560
Speaker 1: this space that are supporting our issues, are supporting our values,

618
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: and then also recognizing that again we're not monolithic. We

619
00:37:26,640 --> 00:37:29,960
Speaker 1: need to speak to voters as individuals and we're not

620
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: just pitting everyone and you know against each other. We're

621
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,120
Speaker 1: working under an administration right now that is trying to

622
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:41,040
Speaker 1: divide this country at every turn, and so it's really

623
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:45,279
Speaker 1: important that as we are mobilizing and reaching voters that

624
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:47,319
Speaker 1: at every step of the way, we are trying to

625
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,439
Speaker 1: unite folks under one goal, which is to make sure

626
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: that we have a democracy that represents our communities, that

627
00:37:53,640 --> 00:37:56,440
Speaker 1: represents our issues, and that is going to fight to

628
00:37:56,640 --> 00:38:01,120
Speaker 1: actually move our communities forward. But that's again deserved better,

629
00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:05,280
Speaker 1: and today she deserves better than having her story fuel

630
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:09,040
Speaker 1: mistrust and hate in our communities. And we too deserve

631
00:38:09,080 --> 00:38:11,640
Speaker 1: better than being fed the myth that our communities can

632
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: only exist in conflict with one another. Our oppression, like

633
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,760
Speaker 1: our freedom, is all linked, and until we're all free,

634
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:21,799
Speaker 1: none of us is free. To make sure that you

635
00:38:21,880 --> 00:38:24,400
Speaker 1: and your community have the right information you need to vote,

636
00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 1: go to vote dot org. If you enjoyed this podcast,

637
00:38:33,040 --> 00:38:39,919
Speaker 1: please help us grow by subscribing. Got a story about

638
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:41,879
Speaker 1: an interesting thing in tech, or just want to say hi.

639
00:38:42,160 --> 00:38:44,240
Speaker 1: We'd love to hear from you at Hello at tangoi

640
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,839
Speaker 1: dot com. Disinformed is brought to you by There Are

641
00:38:46,840 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet. It's a production of I

642
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:52,720
Speaker 1: Heart Radio and Unboss Creative. Jonathan Strickland is our executive producer.

643
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:56,840
Speaker 1: Tary Harrison is our supervising producer and engineer. Michaelmato is

644
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 1: our contributing producer. I'm your host bridgetad. For more great podcasts,

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Speaker 1: check out the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcast, or

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Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts m